the liberal economic theory in a nutshell.was Re: Lance Armstrong Guilty

From : transurgeon

Q: real numbers how the hell can we cut taxes $20000 for someone who only pays $2000 in taxes to begin with thatstheliberalfuzzymath. you cant and thats my whole point. these flat tax cuts do nothing for the people that need it the most and everything for people that dont need it at all. the fuzzy math is a right wing thing like your unemployed percentages. here boner sums it up the poor paid little or no taxes to begin with yet need tax cuts the rich upper 50% of the taxpayers who pay 96.03 % of all taxes dont deserve a cut because they already have so much. tlm typical liberal mentality .

Replies:

From : tbone

tbone wrote now what has kerry done in the past 20 years in the senate that is an accomplishment of value what did bush do prior to his election thats your best answer for kerrys 20 years of accomplishments in the senate that is no answer either. why is it that you right wingers always feel the need to change the rules when they work against you if it is so important for someone to perform some stellar act before becoming president what did bush do -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote that is no answer either. why is it that you right wingers always feel the need to change the rules when they work against you if it is so important for someone to perform some stellar act before becoming president what did bush do oh come now tbone. your political bias will not allow you to admit that bush has done some things you even find good. i cant stand kerry or clinton or gore. but there are some things all of them did that i agree with that were good for our country. you on the other hand will deny anything good from bush or anyone connected with him. so why discuss what has already been mentioned here that you deny .

From : tbone

it is kind of funny to see people like yourself reach to this level out of desperation. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tbone wrote in it near it what really is the difference. you seem to really be reaching now. no kerry was reaching when he said he was in cambodia when he wasnt. near it in it same thing only in a liberal warped world. .

From : theguy

on thu 26 aug 2004 042528 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote tbone wrote now what has kerry done in the past 20 years in the senate that is an accomplishment of value what did bush do prior to his election thats your best answer for kerrys 20 years of accomplishments in the senate that is no answer either. why is it that you right wingers always feel the need to change the rules when they work against you if it is so important for someone to perform some stellar act before becoming president what did bush do tom i am no right winger not at all. i would sure like to see something kerry has done however that would cause me to see his presidency with some optimism that he has a plan or that he has some reason to run other than his own ego. i see neither. i am not saying that bush will go down in history as a great president but he is doing ok and i see no reason to change our course just so that kerry can strut around in the white house. there has to be some reason to change. i see none. just not liking bush isnt a reason to change course. the other thing that you have to think about is what long term effect changing presidents now would have. the message that it would send as it did during the vietnam war is that our military and our will to survive can be defeated in the media by impacting the elections. we started this war to protect our country from terrorism and we need to see it through. we as a country have to show the same resolve to finish this thing once and for all that our soldiers are. this is what really pisses me off. too many americans have become weak. we talk too much and dont do enough. terrorism isnt going to go away it is going to get worse especially if we dont make our stand now. if the terrorists see that they can defeat us through the media by scaring you with their violence and by using the guilt that so many liberals feel because we live in such an affluent country that we built mind you then the future that we are leaving for our kids is embarrassing. personally i think it is wrong to leave this mess for our kids to have to clean up years from now. it is time for our generation to stand up grow a pair and take care of this. that is where i agree with bush. .

From : budd cochran

amen. very well said. budd on thu 26 aug 2004 042528 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote tbone wrote now what has kerry done in the past 20 years in the senate that is an accomplishment of value what did bush do prior to his election thats your best answer for kerrys 20 years of accomplishments in the senate that is no answer either. why is it that you right wingers always feel the need to change the rules when they work against you if it is so important for someone to perform some stellar act before becoming president what did bush do tom i am no right winger not at all. i would sure like to see something kerry has done however that would cause me to see his presidency with some optimism that he has a plan or that he has some reason to run other than his own ego. i see neither. i am not saying that bush will go down in history as a great president but he is doing ok and i see no reason to change our course just so that kerry can strut around in the white house. there has to be some reason to change. i see none. just not liking bush isnt a reason to change course. the other thing that you have to think about is what long term effect changing presidents now would have. the message that it would send as it did during the vietnam war is that our military and our will to survive can be defeated in the media by impacting the elections. we started this war to protect our country from terrorism and we need to see it through. we as a country have to show the same resolve to finish this thing once and for all that our soldiers are. this is what really pisses me off. too many americans have become weak. we talk too much and dont do enough. terrorism isnt going to go away it is going to get worse especially if we dont make our stand now. if the terrorists see that they can defeat us through the media by scaring you with their violence and by using the guilt that so many liberals feel because we live in such an affluent country that we built mind you then the future that we are leaving for our kids is embarrassing. personally i think it is wrong to leave this mess for our kids to have to clean up years from now. it is time for our generation to stand up grow a pair and take care of this. that is where i agree with bush. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote it is kind of funny to see people like yourself reach to this level out of desperation. reach its funny how kerry brags about his service using lies to do it. and its the reps that are reaching when they call him on his crap whats funny is how you leftys eat up whatever kerry spits out regardless of whether its true or not. pretty much the same as you do with the right. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote pretty much the same as you do with the right. not true at all. i do not defend bush when he makes a bad descision that i disagree with. you on the other hand have defended kerry in every way possible on every issue brought up. you also believe that everything bush has done is bad. you have never agreed that he has done anything good. i on the other hand have agreed with some things kerry has done over the years. your political bias and the far lefts hatred wont allow them to see anything except whats wrong. .

From : jerry

miles wrote tbone wrote in it near it what really is the difference. you seem to really be reaching now. no kerry was reaching when he said he was in cambodia when he wasnt. near it in it same thing only in a liberal warped world. he wasnt reaching he was flat lying. got himself on another lie yesterday when it was discovered he claimed to be sitting in a hostile place with deadly bullets flying everywhere when at the same time a bullet struck down martin luther king. only problem is he didnt report to viet nam until a several weeks after king was shot. another story another lie. jerry .

From : tbone

on thu 26 aug 2004 042528 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote tbone wrote now what has kerry done in the past 20 years in the senate that is an accomplishment of value what did bush do prior to his election thats your best answer for kerrys 20 years of accomplishments in the senate that is no answer either. why is it that you right wingers always feel the need to change the rules when they work against you if it is so important for someone to perform some stellar act before becoming president what did bush do tom i am no right winger not at all. i would sure like to see something kerry has done however that would cause me to see his presidency with some optimism that he has a plan or that he has some reason to run other than his own ego. i see neither. i suspect not but then again you are really not looking. now dont get me wrong im not trying to insult you but exactly what did bush do prior to becoming president and he was the governor of texas which gave him ample oppertunity to do so and far more than kerry would have being one of many in congress. kerry is not running on his ego he is defending himself from attacks on his abilities and courage. i am not saying that bush will go down in history as a great president but he is doing ok and i see no reason to change our course just so that kerry can strut around in the white house. really how exactly is he doing ok please explain because every time i ask i get no answer or a bs answer like he kept gore out. so far he has reversed 30 years of ecological gains and improvements even some that his father put into place irresponsible tax cuts that have raised the cost of living for many while doing nothing for the economy nothing on alternative energy althought that was a given and economy that while recovering is far from robust and putting us into a war iraq with no valid battle plan under false pretences. the man has truly been a disaster. there has to be some reason to change. i see none. like i said you are caught up in the right wing spin and are looking at nothing else but american pride and while that is important there is more to life than looking like the baddest boy on the block. just not liking bush isnt a reason to change course. this is just more right wing hype and lies. what makes you think that getting rid of bush is going to change the course of the war or change it in a bad way the answer is simple right wing spin. althought we shouldnt be there iraq we are and what needs to be done needs to be done and its just a matter of how and so far bush has done a shit job of it. the other thing that you have to think about is what long term effect changing presidents now would have. the message that it would send as it did during the vietnam war is that our military and our will to survive can be defeated in the media by impacting the elections. having many relatives outside of this country gives a frightening picture of what this country is actually thought of and the message that we are sending. changing presidents would be a good thing as many think of him as both a bully and an idiot. we had no chance in nam with what we were doing and should have either declared full war and kicked their asses or got out a long time before we did. changing presidents would send no negative or message of fear as we have far more important problems here than the war in iraq. actually holding on to one that has completely failed in his economic policies because of the war shows true fear. we started this war to protect our country from terrorism and we need to see it through. complete bs. we started the war in afghanistan for that reason and have done a half-assed job with that. we started the war in iraq for completely different reasons under false pretences and arent doing a whole lot better there either. we should have invested the time and money to clean up afghanistan find bin coward and eliminate the taliban before stretching our resources as thin as we are with this meaningless war that is killing thousands of our people for no reason. we as a country have to show the same resolve to finish this thing once and for all that our soldiers are. i agree but what does that have to do with bush kerry has clearly said that he has no intention of backing out or running away from this war but that he has a better idea on how to finish it like getting other countries to help out. bush has alienated just about every powerful country and has forced us to pretty much go it alone costing our soldiers and their families dearly. hell even tony blair recently went before parliament and apologized for being duped into the wmd bs. our president was going to give him the cmh but the british parliament forbid him from accepting it because it is an election year here and they saw it as just a way for the president to tr

From : tbone

tbone wrote pretty much the same as you do with the right. not true at all. i do not defend bush when he makes a bad descision that i disagree with. nice spin the problem is that there doesnt seem to be anything that he does that you dissagree with and if so name some. you on the other hand have defended kerry in every way possible on every issue brought up. because the issues brought up are usually just he said / she said bs or simple mistakes he made while speaking. instead of just attacking kerry like you are doing why dont you try defending bush do you just not have anything to do that with you also believe that everything bush has done is bad. not everything but i am finding a hard time finding things that are good and you and the rest of the right wing committee are not helping. i asked a simple question and get a bunch of attacks on the other guy instead. this does not say much for your man now does it. you have never agreed that he has done anything good. because you have yet to give me an example of anything to either agree with or dissagree with. i on the other hand have agreed with some things kerry has done over the years. lol yea right name one. your political bias and the far lefts hatred wont allow them to see anything except whats wrong. my political bias and hatred for christs sakes miles you just rattled off that you hate clinton gore and kerry who all happen to be democrats. if anyone is showing political bias and hatred it would be you. keep dreaming miles. i have asked you repeatedly what good has bush done and all i get are either bs answers like he kept gore out or spin answers such as what has kerry done. kerry was never the president and it is the responsibility of the president to prove that he deserves to remain in office and this one has done no such thing. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : theguy

on thu 26 aug 2004 161021 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote on thu 26 aug 2004 042528 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote tbone wrote now what has kerry done in the past 20 years in the senate that is an accomplishment of value what did bush do prior to his election thats your best answer for kerrys 20 years of accomplishments in the senate that is no answer either. why is it that you right wingers always feel the need to change the rules when they work against you if it is so important for someone to perform some stellar act before becoming president what did bush do tom i am no right winger not at all. i would sure like to see something kerry has done however that would cause me to see his presidency with some optimism that he has a plan or that he has some reason to run other than his own ego. i see neither. i suspect not but then again you are really not looking. now dont get me wrong im not trying to insult you but exactly what did bush do prior to becoming president and he was the governor of texas which gave him ample oppertunity to do so and far more than kerry would have being one of many in congress. kerry is not running on his ego he is defending himself from attacks on his abilities and courage. i am not saying that bush will go down in history as a great president but he is doing ok and i see no reason to change our course just so that kerry can strut around in the white house. really how exactly is he doing ok please explain because every time i ask i get no answer or a bs answer like he kept gore out. so far he has reversed 30 years of ecological gains and improvements even some that his father put into place irresponsible tax cuts that have raised the cost of living for many while doing nothing for the economy nothing on alternative energy althought that was a given and economy that while recovering is far from robust and putting us into a war iraq with no valid battle plan under false pretences. the man has truly been a disaster. there has to be some reason to change. i see none. like i said you are caught up in the right wing spin and are looking at nothing else but american pride and while that is important there is more to life than looking like the baddest boy on the block. just not liking bush isnt a reason to change course. this is just more right wing hype and lies. what makes you think that getting rid of bush is going to change the course of the war or change it in a bad way the answer is simple right wing spin. althought we shouldnt be there iraq we are and what needs to be done needs to be done and its just a matter of how and so far bush has done a shit job of it. the other thing that you have to think about is what long term effect changing presidents now would have. the message that it would send as it did during the vietnam war is that our military and our will to survive can be defeated in the media by impacting the elections. having many relatives outside of this country gives a frightening picture of what this country is actually thought of and the message that we are sending. changing presidents would be a good thing as many think of him as both a bully and an idiot. we had no chance in nam with what we were doing and should have either declared full war and kicked their asses or got out a long time before we did. changing presidents would send no negative or message of fear as we have far more important problems here than the war in iraq. actually holding on to one that has completely failed in his economic policies because of the war shows true fear. we started this war to protect our country from terrorism and we need to see it through. complete bs. we started the war in afghanistan for that reason and have done a half-assed job with that. we started the war in iraq for completely different reasons under false pretences and arent doing a whole lot better there either. we should have invested the time and money to clean up afghanistan find bin coward and eliminate the taliban before stretching our resources as thin as we are with this meaningless war that is killing thousands of our people for no reason. we as a country have to show the same resolve to finish this thing once and for all that our soldiers are. i agree but what does that have to do with bush kerry has clearly said that he has no intention of backing out or running away from this war but that he has a better idea on how to finish it like getting other countries to help out. bush has alienated just about every powerful country and has forced us to pretty much go it alone costing our soldiers and their families dearly. hell even tony blair recently went before parliament and apologized for being duped into the wmd bs. our president was going to give him the cmh but the british parliament forbid him from accepting it because it is an el

From : mgg

you guys are still here g denny wrote im just sitting here wondering like the typical ohio idiot if this thread is gonna continue on till the elections are over. if it does it just may be a new record for aadt.. depends. can we combine all k&n threads together as one .

From : budd cochran

nope we left and came back earlier. how ya doin budd you guys are still here g denny wrote im just sitting here wondering like the typical ohio idiot if this thread is gonna continue on till the elections are over. if it does it just may be a new record for aadt.. depends. can we combine all k&n threads together as one .

From : milesh

tbone wrote really how exactly is he doing ok please explain because every time i ask i get no answer or a bs answer like he kept gore out. many have stated several great things. but because of your hatred you can see nothing at all. what you state below is only your opinion. so far he has reversed 30 years of ecological gains and improvements in your opinion. irresponsible tax cuts that have raised the cost of living for many while doing nothing for the economy in your opinion. it has greatly helped my company and enabled us to have the largest expansion this year in 20 years. and yes that means more employees. youre dillusional if you think that holding taxes high during a down economy would strengthen it. like i said you are caught up in the right wing spin and are looking at nothing else but american pride and while that is important there is more to life than looking like the baddest boy on the block. you are caught up in left wing spin and are looking at nothing but hatred. you refuse to believe that kerry has done anything wrong in his 20 years in the senate. you refuse to tell us anything good kerry has done in his 20 years in the senate. instead all i hear is how he is a nam war hero from 40 years ago. opinions are one thing but tbone you are one of the biggest hypocrites on the matter. again there are many things i agree with kerry on and disagree with bush on. its a matter of which side of the scale tips towards my beliefs. mine is probably 60/40 in favor of bush. you on the other hand are 100/0 towards kerry yet you cant tell us anything about that 100% only about the 0. bush has done a shit job of it. in your opinion. kerry has clearly said that he has no intention of backing out or running away from this war but that he has a better idea on how to finish it like getting other countries to help out. ahh kerrys secret plan that is better than bushs. there are many countries helping out. you are only referring to a handfull that are not. exactly what would kerry have done to bring on board russia germany and france im sure you know because kerry hasnt said how. its a top secret plan of his. bush has alienated just about every powerful country and has forced us to pretty much go it alone kerry made the statement that if the un wont help then well go it alone. you have a problem with kerrys statement like many of kerrys statements they do change with the wind. of course they can scare us that is a given. if we hold on to a president that normally would not have been re-elected out of fear then they have indeed won. rofl 10 out of 10 terrorists want anyone but bush. so let me get this straight. you think that terrorists will win if bush is re-elected so that means they lose if kerry is elected talk about spin. .

From : milesh

tbone wrote nice spin the problem is that there doesnt seem to be anything that he does that you dissagree with and if so name some. i have tbone but your memory eludes you because of your hatred. i disagree with bush on abortion issues and on immigration policies for starters. these are issues i agree more with kerry on. now tbone lets here what you agree with bush on and what you disagree with kerry on oh wait below you have already told me there are none. you also believe that everything bush has done is bad. i asked a simple question and get a bunch of attacks on the other guy instead. this does not say much for your man now does it. gee tbone isnt that exactly what you are doing i have asked many times what good kerry has done. you reply by attacking bush. you are a hypocrite. because you have yet to give me an example of anything to either agree with or dissagree with. why do i have to bring up anything i do not know all your views i only know mine. now once again i ask you what do you agree with bush on and what do you disagree with kerry on lol yea right name one. see above about your short term hate filled memory. my political bias and hatred for christs sakes miles you just rattled off that you hate clinton gore and kerry who all happen to be democrats. no i said i dont like them. i also said all three did some good things for this country. completetly different than your 100% hatred of bush. kerry was never the president and it is the responsibility of the president to prove that he deserves to remain in office and this one has done no such thing. i nominate this statement for the boner award of the year. a candidate kerry doesnt have to prove a thing as to why he deserves my vote .

From : transurgeon

he wasnt reaching he was flat lying. got himself on another lie yesterday when it was discovered he claimed to be sitting in a hostile place with deadly bullets flying everywhere when at the same time a bullet struck down martin luther king. only problem is he didnt report to viet nam until a several weeks after king was shot. another story another lie. kinda like being in the mekong delta on the border between vietnam and cambodia............... .

From : transurgeon

good grief i actually agree with you tom i am no right winger not at all. i would sure like to see something kerry has done however that would cause me to see his presidency with some optimism that he has a plan or that he has some reason to run other than his own ego. i see neither. i am not saying that bush will go down in history as a great president but he is doing ok and i see no reason to change our course just so that kerry can strut around in the white house. there has to be some reason to change. i see none. just not liking bush isnt a reason to change course. the other thing that you have to think about is what long term effect changing presidents now would have. the message that it would send as it did during the vietnam war is that our military and our will to survive can be defeated in the media by impacting the elections. we started this war to protect our country from terrorism and we need to see it through. we as a country have to show the same resolve to finish this thing once and for all that our soldiers are. this is what really pisses me off. too many americans have become weak. we talk too much and dont do enough. terrorism isnt going to go away it is going to get worse especially if we dont make our stand now. if the terrorists see that they can defeat us through the media by scaring you with their violence and by using the guilt that so many liberals feel because we live in such an affluent country that we built mind you then the future that we are leaving for our kids is embarrassing. personally i think it is wrong to leave this mess for our kids to have to clean up years from now. it is time for our generation to stand up grow a pair and take care of this. that is where i agree with bush. .

From : budd cochran

i admit that i find myself quite pleasantly in agreement with him also. budd good grief i actually agree with you tom i am no right winger not at all. i would sure like to see something kerry has done however that would cause me to see his presidency with some optimism that he has a plan or that he has some reason to run other than his own ego. i see neither. i am not saying that bush will go down in history as a great president but he is doing ok and i see no reason to change our course just so that kerry can strut around in the white house. there has to be some reason to change. i see none. just not liking bush isnt a reason to change course. the other thing that you have to think about is what long term effect changing presidents now would have. the message that it would send as it did during the vietnam war is that our military and our will to survive can be defeated in the media by impacting the elections. we started this war to protect our country from terrorism and we need to see it through. we as a country have to show the same resolve to finish this thing once and for all that our soldiers are. this is what really pisses me off. too many americans have become weak. we talk too much and dont do enough. terrorism isnt going to go away it is going to get worse especially if we dont make our stand now. if the terrorists see that they can defeat us through the media by scaring you with their violence and by using the guilt that so many liberals feel because we live in such an affluent country that we built mind you then the future that we are leaving for our kids is embarrassing. personally i think it is wrong to leave this mess for our kids to have to clean up years from now. it is time for our generation to stand up grow a pair and take care of this. that is where i agree with bush. .

From : miles

denny wrote im just sitting here wondering like the typical ohio idiot if this thread is gonna continue on till the elections are over. if it does it just may be a new record for aadt.. depends. can we combine all k&n threads together as one .

From : budd cochran

again very well said sir. budd on thu 26 aug 2004 161021 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote on thu 26 aug 2004 042528 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote tbone wrote now what has kerry done in the past 20 years in the senate that is an accomplishment of value what did bush do prior to his election thats your best answer for kerrys 20 years of accomplishments in the senate that is no answer either. why is it that you right wingers always feel the need to change the rules when they work against you if it is so important for someone to perform some stellar act before becoming president what did bush do tom i am no right winger not at all. i would sure like to see something kerry has done however that would cause me to see his presidency with some optimism that he has a plan or that he has some reason to run other than his own ego. i see neither. i suspect not but then again you are really not looking. now dont get me wrong im not trying to insult you but exactly what did bush do prior to becoming president and he was the governor of texas which gave him ample oppertunity to do so and far more than kerry would have being one of many in congress. kerry is not running on his ego he is defending himself from attacks on his abilities and courage. i am not saying that bush will go down in history as a great president but he is doing ok and i see no reason to change our course just so that kerry can strut around in the white house. really how exactly is he doing ok please explain because every time i ask i get no answer or a bs answer like he kept gore out. so far he has reversed 30 years of ecological gains and improvements even some that his father put into place irresponsible tax cuts that have raised the cost of living for many while doing nothing for the economy nothing on alternative energy althought that was a given and economy that while recovering is far from robust and putting us into a war iraq with no valid battle plan under false pretences. the man has truly been a disaster. there has to be some reason to change. i see none. like i said you are caught up in the right wing spin and are looking at nothing else but american pride and while that is important there is more to life than looking like the baddest boy on the block. just not liking bush isnt a reason to change course. this is just more right wing hype and lies. what makes you think that getting rid of bush is going to change the course of the war or change it in a bad way the answer is simple right wing spin. althought we shouldnt be there iraq we are and what needs to be done needs to be done and its just a matter of how and so far bush has done a shit job of it. the other thing that you have to think about is what long term effect changing presidents now would have. the message that it would send as it did during the vietnam war is that our military and our will to survive can be defeated in the media by impacting the elections. having many relatives outside of this country gives a frightening picture of what this country is actually thought of and the message that we are sending. changing presidents would be a good thing as many think of him as both a bully and an idiot. we had no chance in nam with what we were doing and should have either declared full war and kicked their asses or got out a long time before we did. changing presidents would send no negative or message of fear as we have far more important problems here than the war in iraq. actually holding on to one that has completely failed in his economic policies because of the war shows true fear. we started this war to protect our country from terrorism and we need to see it through. complete bs. we started the war in afghanistan for that reason and have done a half-assed job with that. we started the war in iraq for completely different reasons under false pretences and arent doing a whole lot better there either. we should have invested the time and money to clean up afghanistan find bin coward and eliminate the taliban before stretching our resources as thin as we are with this meaningless war that is killing thousands of our people for no reason. we as a country have to show the same resolve to finish this thing once and for all that our soldiers are. i agree but what does that have to do with bush kerry has clearly said that he has no intention of backing out or running away from this war but that he has a better idea on how to finish it like getting other countries to help out. bush has alienated just about every powerful country and has forced us to pretty much go it alone costing our soldiers and their families dearly. hell even tony blair recently went before parliament and apologized for being duped into the wmd bs. our president was going to give him the cmh but the briti

From : denny

im just sitting here wondering like the typical ohio idiot if this thread is gonna continue on till the elections are over. if it does it just may be a new record for aadt.. denny i admit that i find myself quite pleasantly in agreement with him also. budd good grief i actually agree with you tom i am no right winger not at all. i would sure like to see something kerry has done however that would cause me to see his presidency with some optimism that he has a plan or that he has some reason to run other than his own ego. i see neither. i am not saying that bush will go down in history as a great president but he is doing ok and i see no reason to change our course just so that kerry can strut around in the white house. there has to be some reason to change. i see none. just not liking bush isnt a reason to change course. the other thing that you have to think about is what long term effect changing presidents now would have. the message that it would send as it did during the vietnam war is that our military and our will to survive can be defeated in the media by impacting the elections. we started this war to protect our country from terrorism and we need to see it through. we as a country have to show the same resolve to finish this thing once and for all that our soldiers are. this is what really pisses me off. too many americans have become weak. we talk too much and dont do enough. terrorism isnt going to go away it is going to get worse especially if we dont make our stand now. if the terrorists see that they can defeat us through the media by scaring you with their violence and by using the guilt that so many liberals feel because we live in such an affluent country that we built mind you then the future that we are leaving for our kids is embarrassing. personally i think it is wrong to leave this mess for our kids to have to clean up years from now. it is time for our generation to stand up grow a pair and take care of this. that is where i agree with bush. .

From : theguy

on fri 27 aug 2004 001903 gmt denny wddodge@woh.rr.com wrote im just sitting here wondering like the typical ohio idiot if this thread is gonna continue on till the elections are over. if it does it just may be a new record for aadt.. denny it would have to go a lot further to set a record but then november is a lot further away. you could be right. i admit that i find myself quite pleasantly in agreement with him also. budd good grief i actually agree with you tom i am no right winger not at all. i would sure like to see something kerry has done however that would cause me to see his presidency with some optimism that he has a plan or that he has some reason to run other than his own ego. i see neither. i am not saying that bush will go down in history as a great president but he is doing ok and i see no reason to change our course just so that kerry can strut around in the white house. there has to be some reason to change. i see none. just not liking bush isnt a reason to change course. the other thing that you have to think about is what long term effect changing presidents now would have. the message that it would send as it did during the vietnam war is that our military and our will to survive can be defeated in the media by impacting the elections. we started this war to protect our country from terrorism and we need to see it through. we as a country have to show the same resolve to finish this thing once and for all that our soldiers are. this is what really pisses me off. too many americans have become weak. we talk too much and dont do enough. terrorism isnt going to go away it is going to get worse especially if we dont make our stand now. if the terrorists see that they can defeat us through the media by scaring you with their violence and by using the guilt that so many liberals feel because we live in such an affluent country that we built mind you then the future that we are leaving for our kids is embarrassing. personally i think it is wrong to leave this mess for our kids to have to clean up years from now. it is time for our generation to stand up grow a pair and take care of this. that is where i agree with bush. .

From : mgg

hangin in there wondering how long this thread is gonna continue. man bonehead is really diggin a hole. --mike nope we left and came back earlier. how ya doin budd you guys are still here g denny wrote im just sitting here wondering like the typical ohio idiot if this thread is gonna continue on till the elections are over. if it does it just may be a new record for aadt.. depends. can we combine all k&n threads together as one .

From : transurgeon

you mean the torque wrench debate is in danger of being de-throned im just sitting here wondering like the typical ohio idiot if this thread is gonna continue on till the elections are over. if it does it just may be a new record for aadt.. denny i admit that i find myself quite pleasantly in agreement with him also. budd good grief i actually agree with you tom i am no right winger not at all. i would sure like to see something kerry has done however that would cause me to see his presidency with some optimism that he has a plan or that he has some reason to run other than his own ego. i see neither. i am not saying that bush will go down in history as a great president but he is doing ok and i see no reason to change our course just so that kerry can strut around in the white house. there has to be some reason to change. i see none. just not liking bush isnt a reason to change course. the other thing that you have to think about is what long term effect changing presidents now would have. the message that it would send as it did during the vietnam war is that our military and our will to survive can be defeated in the media by impacting the elections. we started this war to protect our country from terrorism and we need to see it through. we as a country have to show the same resolve to finish this thing once and for all that our soldiers are. this is what really pisses me off. too many americans have become weak. we talk too much and dont do enough. terrorism isnt going to go away it is going to get worse especially if we dont make our stand now. if the terrorists see that they can defeat us through the media by scaring you with their violence and by using the guilt that so many liberals feel because we live in such an affluent country that we built mind you then the future that we are leaving for our kids is embarrassing. personally i think it is wrong to leave this mess for our kids to have to clean up years from now. it is time for our generation to stand up grow a pair and take care of this. that is where i agree with bush. .

From : budd cochran

im just having fun with liberal reporters screwups with our resident screwup. budd im just sitting here wondering like the typical ohio idiot if this thread is gonna continue on till the elections are over. if it does it just may be a new record for aadt.. denny i admit that i find myself quite pleasantly in agreement with him also. budd good grief i actually agree with you tom i am no right winger not at all. i would sure like to see something kerry has done however that would cause me to see his presidency with some optimism that he has a plan or that he has some reason to run other than his own ego. i see neither. i am not saying that bush will go down in history as a great president but he is doing ok and i see no reason to change our course just so that kerry can strut around in the white house. there has to be some reason to change. i see none. just not liking bush isnt a reason to change course. the other thing that you have to think about is what long term effect changing presidents now would have. the message that it would send as it did during the vietnam war is that our military and our will to survive can be defeated in the media by impacting the elections. we started this war to protect our country from terrorism and we need to see it through. we as a country have to show the same resolve to finish this thing once and for all that our soldiers are. this is what really pisses me off. too many americans have become weak. we talk too much and dont do enough. terrorism isnt going to go away it is going to get worse especially if we dont make our stand now. if the terrorists see that they can defeat us through the media by scaring you with their violence and by using the guilt that so many liberals feel because we live in such an affluent country that we built mind you then the future that we are leaving for our kids is embarrassing. personally i think it is wrong to leave this mess for our kids to have to clean up years from now. it is time for our generation to stand up grow a pair and take care of this. that is where i agree with bush. .

From : budd cochran

as long as hes digging the hole we dont have to do we vbg what do you think of this for a sigline budd i think therefore im a conservative lol hangin in there wondering how long this thread is gonna continue. man bonehead is really diggin a hole. --mike nope we left and came back earlier. how ya doin budd you guys are still here g denny wrote im just sitting here wondering like the typical ohio idiot if this thread is gonna continue on till the elections are over. if it does it just may be a new record for aadt.. depends. can we combine all k&n threads together as one .

From : budd cochran

that lost out to another thread iirc if you just count sheer length and number of posts but for being a thread with a consistent theme thru it i think it still stands. and mr reporter sir i was-a proud to be a paht uf hit. uh will this-a be onna fife-thutty newz budd you mean the torque wrench debate is in danger of being de-throned im just sitting here wondering like the typical ohio idiot if this thread is gonna continue on till the elections are over. if it does it just may be a new record for aadt.. denny i admit that i find myself quite pleasantly in agreement with him also. budd good grief i actually agree with you tom i am no right winger not at all. i would sure like to see something kerry has done however that would cause me to see his presidency with some optimism that he has a plan or that he has some reason to run other than his own ego. i see neither. i am not saying that bush will go down in history as a great president but he is doing ok and i see no reason to change our course just so that kerry can strut around in the white house. there has to be some reason to change. i see none. just not liking bush isnt a reason to change course. the other thing that you have to think about is what long term effect changing presidents now would have. the message that it would send as it did during the vietnam war is that our military and our will to survive can be defeated in the media by impacting the elections. we started this war to protect our country from terrorism and we need to see it through. we as a country have to show the same resolve to finish this thing once and for all that our soldiers are. this is what really pisses me off. too many americans have become weak. we talk too much and dont do enough. terrorism isnt going to go away it is going to get worse especially if we dont make our stand now. if the terrorists see that they can defeat us through the media by scaring you with their violence and by using the guilt that so many liberals feel because we live in such an affluent country that we built mind you then the future that we are leaving for our kids is embarrassing. personally i think it is wrong to leave this mess for our kids to have to clean up years from now. it is time for our generation to stand up grow a pair and take care of this. that is where i agree with bush. .

From : tbone

as long as hes digging the hole we dont have to do we vbg what do you think of this for a sigline budd i think therefore im a conservative i think that it is an oxymoron sorta like jumbo shrimp - -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

hey tom who was it that brought politics into this joke thread anyway i missed it. budd .

From : tbone

i dont remember does it really matter. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving hey tom who was it that brought politics into this joke thread anyway i missed it. budd .

From : budd cochran

on tue 07 sep 2004 124428 gmt budd cochran mr-d150@citlinkspam.net wrote hmm... sorta like you can lead a horticulture but you cant make her think... lol yeah that could be right. the sad part is its not impossible to turn a life around but it does require you to make a commitment to turn it around. budd on tue 07 sep 2004 032236 gmt budd cochran mr-d150@citlinkspam.net wrote i see . . . youre just anti-american. budd no just another idiot passing by. i think his life sucks pretty badly so he needs someone to blame. you really dont understand how the government of the usa works do you where are you from fuck the government. those who planned the 911 attacks were masterminds. mac .

From : budd cochran

on tue 07 sep 2004 032236 gmt budd cochran mr-d150@citlinkspam.net wrote i see . . . youre just anti-american. budd no just another idiot passing by. i think his life sucks pretty badly so he needs someone to blame. you really dont understand how the government of the usa works do you where are you from fuck the government. those who planned the 911 attacks were masterminds. .

From : redneck tookover hell

lol nice bait and switch. the logging companies that make these claims do no such thing. they like to use this bs to make a quick end-run around logging restrictions and nothing more. you really are a fucking idiot its really sad that pyromaniacs like you love to see the entire forests burn completely for no reason except to satisfy your deranged fantasies about protecting the environment politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : tbone

then i suggest that you research it and let us know. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving i dont remember does it really matter. it does to me. im curious about it. budd .

From : theguy

on wed 01 sep 2004 224019 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote on wed 01 sep 2004 201026 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote tbone wrote where exactly do you draw the line perfection is not required nor does it exist here or anywhere else. for selecting a nation to the uns human rights council the line drawn is somewhere above extreme human rights abuse. no country below that line should be on the council. so because their leader is a complete pos that means that their cultural beliefs have no meaning tom i think that the problems may go beyond their leader. it wasnt the president that shot the soccer players for losing games. no it was his son same difference. their president has been disposed and yet the abuse continues. really care to back that up. thats not what i have heard http//www.csmonitor.com/2003/1120/p01s02-woiq.html it seems things are better now for then anyway. now if you are talking about the rash of terrorism that has fallen in iraq well....thats a different story. any country that worships those that train children and women to strap explosives on their body so that they can kill themselves and others that dont believe the same way they do has some issues tom. if you would stop and think for a minute you would realize that. perhaps you would like to provide some links to this training of women and children in iraq preferably while saddam was in charge. no you love to play this innocent what are you talking about game. you live int he same world that i do sort of anyway. you know exactly what i am talking about. if you really dont tom then you have serious problems man. even then where did anyone say that their cultural beliefs have no meaning i never read that statement until you said it so does that mean that is what you believe if they are excluded from these committees and processes then that is exactly what is being both said and done any way you try and spin it. funny but with this you just did the very thing that you accused me of in this thread said a whole lot of nothing. and this coming from the guy who said that they were done with this thread and that they were not going to get into an endless argument with me. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote really miles you seem to have some fear of unions. why is that because all too often they are incredibly greedy. often the ones that gain the most from the union is the union leaders themselves. and yes the unions do take from my pocket. every time i go to the store to buy something it costs more because it is union made. sorry tbone $17/hour for a kid to put plastic wrap on meat because he belongs to the meat packers union is not doing the public a good thing. it is greed at the expense of others as you like to say. now tell me why you rant on and on about greedy corporations but say almost nothing about greedy unions that cost the public i am not a big fan of unions but i understand how and why they were created. yes i agree they are needed in some cases. their need however is far lower today than it was decades ago. most of what we take for granted now vacations sick time holiday pay health plans simply would not exist for the working man if it wasnt for them and despite the corruptin within them they still serve to keep greedy people like yourself in check. you decided i was greedy because i disagree with your warped views. here you are again saying corporations are always greedy and thus unions keep them in check. you fail to realize that unions often have gotten so big and powerfull and greedy they can drive a company right out of existance. i agree that a system of checks on both sides is whats needed. when a union becomes so large because of its greed you seem to still side with them over the corporation that is hard hit because of your insistance that all corporations have tons of money and are greedy. now i can see why you really want bush it has nothing to do with 9/11 or the war in iraq he has made it clear that he intends to end most of these things which will make you much more money on the backs of your employees by elimimating most of your secondary expenses. most small businesses are very lucky if they can earn more than 10% profit margin. yet your warped liberal mind thinks thats too much and should be taxed heavily. your basis for this is a couple of rich ceos that hit the that you think represent the corporate world as a whole. reality is far from that. lol the only reason that you say it is biased is because of your extreem right wing views. about the only truly biased would be on fox where they have to claim fair and balanced reporting because everyone knows its really just the right wing spin machine. see tbone you think all the stations arent biased because they genearally agree with your views. since fox doesnt then to you they must be biased. cnn msnbc etc. all are very liberal biased in their reporting. when there is good on the economy they will spin it to suit your warped views. fox will just report the good give you the figures etc. cnn will spin it in their attempt to negate it. since you agree with their views cnn is considered unbiased and fox as biased. in reality they are all biased. just that most are left biased. fox is about the only one that isnt. .

From : budd cochran

no you love to play this innocent what are you talking about game. you live int he same world that i do sort of anyway. you know exactly what i am talking about. if you really dont tom then you have serious problems man. welcome to tommy-troll-boy world. budd .

From : budd cochran

i dont remember does it really matter. it does to me. im curious about it. budd .

From : tbone

recommend it... i dont know if the new dakotas have a higher tow max than they did in 01 but i doubt it.. in 01 the dak with 4.7l auto and 3.55 gears had a max of 5150 lbs if you had a 410 rear end it was 6450... i heard on some automotive show today the 2005 dakota 4 door crewcab/quadcab whatever is supposed to be available with either the regular 230/390 4.7 or a ho 250/400 4.7 with either a 6 speed manual or 5 speed auto. they are supposed to be almost 4 inches longer than current with a 131 inch wheelbase no information given on towing capacity politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : tbone

no you love to play this innocent what are you talking about game. you live int he same world that i do sort of anyway. you know exactly what i am talking about. if you really dont tom then you have serious problems man. welcome to tommy-troll-boy world. gee now who is the troll that lives to attack others kissup. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

horizon a wrote my battery went dead this morning. must be president bushs fault. yesterday my basement flooded from the storm. i am sure thats his fault because he should certainly control the weather. why did he lie to you and congress about that too did he want to be right so bad that he ignored the signs of falsehood was congress so cowed by him that they he ignored the signs of falsehood too thereby allowing your battery to go dead and your basement to be flooded for his own personal reasons why did general tommy franks who was in charge of afghanistan say that somalia and yemen were and are waaaaaaaaaaaaay bigger threats to the us of a than iraq is/was and that capturing osama bin laden was not a priority in 2001. why because bush was too busy making a case for war against his old buddy sadaam. http//www.usatoday.com//sept11/2001/11/08/pentagon-toll.htm#more .

From : budd cochran

customization there is really little that you can do about it. perhaps the aftermarket has a solution but im unaware of anything. i solved the lighting problem on my 99 with a pair of dick cepek c-1000 super offroaders at 210w and 750000 candlepower each. slightly above dot specs but heck - i could see for miles .

From : budd cochran

whats the matter tom did we get it right you only whine like this when we do. budd no you love to play this innocent what are you talking about game. you live int he same world that i do sort of anyway. you know exactly what i am talking about. if you really dont tom then you have serious problems man. welcome to tommy-troll-boy world. gee now who is the troll that lives to attack others kissup. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : mike marshall

who the hell is lance armstrong and who gives a shit if he is guilty lance armstrong to be stripped of sixth tour de france title cnn is reporting that lance armstrong may be stripped of his 6th tour de france title. in a random check for banned substances three were found in armstrongs hotel room. the substances banned by the french that were found in his hotel room were as follows 1 toothpaste2 deodorant3 soap the french officials also found several other items which they had never seen before including a testicle and a backbone... earlier reports that french government officials attempted to surrender to armstrong as he entered paris were apparently erroneous i have corrected the okie error. -- moparman---remove clothes to reply!! .

From : trey

mike marshall wrote who the hell is lance armstrong and who gives a shit if he is guilty i am hoping you are kidding. just google his names and you will quickly learn who he is. hes not guilty its just a joke about how poor the french hygiene is. .

From : redneck tookover hell

hes not guilty its just a joke about how poor the french hygiene is. if mr marshall didnt get it probably says something about his hygiene politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote google bush and find failure not this crap again! i do find it interesting that the #1 thing with so many against bush is the iraq war so theyll vote kerry. perhaps you should read the paper every now and then. the new #1 thing is the economy and it is also showing a much larger than expected slow down. this is both in job creation and now the consumer index. yet if you listened to kerry in this weeks campaign speaches he firmly supports this war just as he did before it started. lol it is not support for the war it is the simple fact that now that we are there we cant simply pull out and go away or it would be much worse than before we went it. it doesnt take a large amount of intelligence to figure that out. as for when it started he like just about everyone else was swept up in the horror of 9/11 and fed a lot of garbage information. if he were to say anything different he would have been branded as a traitor regardless of the outcome and you know it. whats even funnier is the excuses given from the left of why kerrys war support is ok. good fun entertainment. really perhaps you might want to list them and entertain the rest of us. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : mopaman

mike marshall wrote who the hell is lance armstrong and who gives a shit if he is guilty i am hoping you are kidding. just google his names and you will quickly learn who he is. google his names plus doping and you will learn plenty of other things too. frenchy .

From : tbone

mike marshall wrote who the hell is lance armstrong and who gives a shit if he is guilty i am hoping you are kidding. just google his names and you will quickly learn who he is. google his names plus doping and you will learn plenty of other things too. frenchy google kerry and find the dope google bush and find failure -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote google bush and find failure not this crap again! i do find it interesting that the #1 thing with so many against bush is the iraq war so theyll vote kerry. yet if you listened to kerry in this weeks campaign speaches he firmly supports this war just as he did before it started. whats even funnier is the excuses given from the left of why kerrys war support is ok. good fun entertainment. .

From : milesh

tbone wrote perhaps you should read the paper every now and then. the new #1 thing is the economy and it is also showing a much larger than expected slow down. this is both in job creation and now the consumer index. slow down dang liberal propaganda. the way you tell it sounds like the economy is going down when in fact it is still going up. last months report showed a lower than expected increase in the job market. it none the less is still growing. whats more is the various reports seem to be used at will by the left depending on what they wish to see. there are two reports which show the job sector performance. one is a random poll of employers. that one is the one that showed the lower than expected increase. the second is a random poll of households. this report is also used to compute the unemployment rate. last months household poll showed a higher than expected increase in the number of people working. when the household report is poor the left blasts it all over saying how bad the economy is but ignores the labor report showing a good increase. when the labor report is poor the left blasts it all over saying how bad the economy is but ignores the household report showing a good increase. go figure. the left wants the economy to fail as part of their 2004 campaign. ive heard the replies and excuses for this time and again but its the truth of the matter. lol it is not support for the war it is the simple fact that now that we are there we cant simply pull out and go away or it would be much worse than before we went it. it doesnt take a large amount of intelligence to figure that out. as for when it started he like just about everyone else was swept up in the horror of 9/11 and fed a lot of garbage information. if he were to say anything different he would have been branded as a traitor regardless of the outcome and you know it. what a bunch of crap to excuse kerry for wanting the same thing as bush. kerry supported and still supports the war just as he always did and very much the same as bush. it was ok for kerry from the start as well as now but not bush. tell me. why hasnt edwards attended the senate intellegence committee meetings. edwards is on the committee. yet he has not been attending. and you support these two guys .

From : mopaman

mike marshall wrote who the hell is lance armstrong and who gives a shit if he is guilty i am hoping you are kidding. just google his names and you will quickly learn who he is. google his names plus doping and you will learn plenty of other things too. frenchy google kerry and find the dope google bush and find failure im voting for him again and im gonna pull the r button. just because of morons like you. -- moparman---remove clothes to reply! --scud coordinates 32.61204 north 96.92993 west-- .

From : idaspode

on tue 10 aug 2004 173042 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote lol it is not support for the war it is the simple fact that now that we are there we cant simply pull out and go away or it would be much worse than before we went it. it doesnt take a large amount of intelligence to figure that out. as for when it started he like just about everyone else was swept up in the horror of 9/11 and fed a lot of garbage information. if he were to say anything different he would have been branded as a traitor regardless of the outcome and you know it. so you are saying kerry either lied about his true feelings or ignored them for the sake of appearance among his peers and constituency this is a good quality for a president dj .

From : tbone

tbone wrote perhaps you should read the paper every now and then. the new #1 thing is the economy and it is also showing a much larger than expected slow down. this is both in job creation and now the consumer index. slow down dang liberal propaganda. the way you tell it sounds like the economy is going down when in fact it is still going up. last months report showed a lower than expected increase in the job market. it none the less is still growing. funny i said a slowdown not a reversal. perhaps you need to back down with the paranoid right wing spin. and while it is still growing it is growing slower than the population increase so what does that say then you can add to that an unexpected increase in warehouse inventories and that spells possible trouble and there is no left or right about it. whats more is the various reports seem to be used at will by the left depending on what they wish to see. there are two reports which show the job sector performance. one is a random poll of employers. that one is the one that showed the lower than expected increase. the second is a random poll of households. this report is also used to compute the unemployment rate. last months household poll showed a higher than expected increase in the number of people working. yes and both are inaccurate. the problem with the household poll is that it includes self employeed peopel as well and sets no standard on income from that employment. i am an independant contractor and that report shows me as employeed even if i dont have a comtract at the time or if i only work 5 hours a week. when the household report is poor the left blasts it all over saying how bad the economy is but ignores the labor report showing a good increase. when the labor report is poor the left blasts it all over saying how bad the economy is but ignores the household report showing a good increase. go figure. lol you really are too much. why is it with you that all of the problems in the wolrd come from the left. you claim to be neutral but you are a liar. every complaint that you make involves the left somehow but it does work both ways. if the employment index is good either one the right ignores the other and claims that the economy is strong and everyone is doing well and its all do to bushs irresponsible tax cuts even if most of the jobs created are at minimum wage and some people have to work more than one of them to make ends meet. iow the right is no better than the left and its about time you opened your eyes. the left wants the economy to fail as part of their 2004 campaign. ive heard the replies and excuses for this time and again but its the truth of the matter. only in your feeble extreme right wing viewpoint. nobody wants the economy to fail as that hurts everyone. the real issue is that the side in power wants to make it look like everything is fine wine and roses while the other wants to point out every possible fault in order to gain power. the sad thing is that bush has nothing to stand on in his 3 1/2 years. i am doing no better now than i was when he took office and my expenses have actually gone up due to his stupid tax cuts and the same can be said for many. lol it is not support for the war it is the simple fact that now that we are there we cant simply pull out and go away or it would be much worse than before we went it. it doesnt take a large amount of intelligence to figure that out. as for when it started he like just about everyone else was swept up in the horror of 9/11 and fed a lot of garbage information. if he were to say anything different he would have been branded as a traitor regardless of the outcome and you know it. what a bunch of crap to excuse kerry for wanting the same thing as bush. kerry supported and still supports the war just as he always did and very much the same as bush. it was ok for kerry from the start as well as now but not bush. because bush was in charge and used an accelerated time table with no valid battle plan or way to pay for it. kerry agreed to give the president the power to do what was done but voted against the way bush was doing it. with the record high national deficit the number of losses and the total unrest over there bush failed miserably and has done nothing for the good of the average citizen in this country. he likes to claim that we are better for it but that is only being believed by the extreme right wing such as yourself. tell me. why hasnt edwards attended the senate intellegence committee meetings. edwards is on the committee. yet he has not been attending. and you support these two guys gee i dont know perhaps because of the same reason bush is not currently in the oval office because he is campaigning. are we getting desperate here why is it that this man can do no wrong in you right wing extremists eyes -- if

From : redneck tookover hell

the simple fact that now that we are there we cant simply pull out and go away or it would be much worse than before we went it. maybe you should share that with lurch he hasnt seemed to figure that out yet politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : redneck tookover hell

google bush and find failure i googled tbone and got clueless fuckup politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : unclestoner

google his names plus doping and you will learn plenty of other things too. google x and y and you will find a lot of stuff relating x to y. its a great age to be a conspiracy theorist. .

From : milesh

tbone wrote doing well and its all do to bushs irresponsible tax cuts even if most of holding high tax rates in a down economy would be both stupid and irresponsible. if kerry is elected and raises taxes before the economy is in full swing then he is both stupid and irresponsible. what so many lefties do not comprehend is that it is very possible for the goverments tax revenues to increase when income tax rates are lowered. the jobs created are at minimum wage and some people have to work more than no they are not at minimum wage. the labor reports clearly show the wages of new jobs fall above the median salary. that means they are not even close to low end jobs. your statement is another leftist propaganda ploy that is politically motivated. only in your feeble extreme right wing viewpoint. nobody wants the economy to fail as that hurts everyone. bull. the worst thing for kerrys campaign is for the economy to gain considerably. that is why every time a very positive report comes out the dems are quick to spin it around and tell you how bad things are. even though when clinton was in office they used those very same numbers to tell me how great things were even though they were not. because bush was in charge and used an accelerated time table with no valid battle plan or way to pay for it. kerry agreed to give the president the power to do what was done but voted against the way bush was doing it. rofl!! so kerry doesnt think for himself. he just goes along with the flow and takes zero responsibility for doing it. and you want to elect this guy read kerrys own speaches of the time. he clearly said if the un wouldnt back it then we go it alone. how soon you lefties forget what kerry himself said. instead opting to only recall what kerry is now saying since it changes to rapidly. .

From : roy

tbone wrote doing well and its all do to bushs irresponsible tax cuts even if most of holding high tax rates in a down economy would be both stupid and irresponsible. if kerry is elected and raises taxes before the economy is in full swing then he is both stupid and irresponsible. what so many lefties do not comprehend is that it is very possible for the goverments tax revenues to increase when income tax rates are lowered. the jobs created are at minimum wage and some people have to work more than no they are not at minimum wage. the labor reports clearly show the wages of new jobs fall above the median salary. that means they are not even close to low end jobs. your statement is another leftist propaganda ploy that is politically motivated. just a quick question about these jobs that fall above the median salary where and whose median salary the gang at mc ds these are shit jobs with no benefits. maybe your counting those good jobs that went off shore or otherwise out of the country. now that i think about it didnt bush say that it was good for the economy or some such oh congrats on the new truck!! roy .

From : idaspode

on 10 aug 2004 185619 edt milesh milesh@nounwantedspam.com wrote snip go read up on the labor report a bit and quit repeating the liberal propaganda. geez how you people buy into this stuff so easily absent of actual facts. maybe because it requires no thought g dj .

From : tbone

tbone wrote doing well and its all do to bushs irresponsible tax cuts even if most of holding high tax rates in a down economy would be both stupid and irresponsible. if kerry is elected and raises taxes before the economy is in full swing then he is both stupid and irresponsible. what so many lefties do not comprehend is that it is very possible for the goverments tax revenues to increase when income tax rates are lowered. complete bs. that can only happen if the total taxable wages becomes greater than it was prior to the tax cuts and nothing about these tax cuts is causing that. also he claimed and as usual you right wingers distort to all hell that he will only raise the taxes of the top 10 percent and actually lower taxes for the middle class as well as eliminate the tax breaks for companies that outsource their jobs which is the only valid way to build the economy. and btw that very outsourcing is a prime reason why the bs bush plan has no way to work. the jobs created are at minimum wage and some people have to work more than no they are not at minimum wage. the labor reports clearly show the wages of new jobs fall above the median salary. that means they are not even close to low end jobs. your statement is another leftist propaganda ploy that is politically motivated. lol and yours is a typical right wing distortion. the medium salary is based on the job type and area that it is in. if 1000 new jobs being created are fast food or retail type jobs whose median salary is $6.50 and hour and for $7.00 an hour and 100 new high tech jobs were created with a median income of $65000 that are now paying $30000 they can and do claim that 90% of the new jobs being created are way above the median salary. only in your feeble extreme right wing viewpoint. nobody wants the economy to fail as that hurts everyone. bull. the worst thing for kerrys campaign is for the economy to gain considerably. that is why every time a very positive report comes out the dems are quick to spin it around and tell you how bad things are. lol more of your right wing paranoia i see. they are doing nothing different then the republicans always do. stop trying to make this one sided your right wing does exactly the same thing. even though when clinton was in office they used those very same numbers to tell me how great things were even though they were not. things were great when clinton was president. things were great when reagan was president as well. things kinda sucked when the first bush was president and are even worse now. because bush was in charge and used an accelerated time table with no valid battle plan or way to pay for it. kerry agreed to give the president the power to do what was done but voted against the way bush was doing it. rofl!! so kerry doesnt think for himself. what does any of this have to do with kerry. kerry was not in charge bush was and the entire responsibility falls on his sholders. kerry voted to give him the power to use the military but it was bushs decision how. he just goes along with the flow and takes zero responsibility for doing it. what in the hell are you talking about he voted to give bush the ablity to use the military but voted against a huge expense when there was no way to pay for it. that sounds like responsibility to me. and you want to elect this guy bush had his four years to prove himself and he failed miserably and has no valid plan for the future just more of the same shit of reversing environmental gains raising the deficit bowing to special interests and eliminating the security of the elderly. it is time for some new leadership and if kerry does no better then he is gone after 1 term as well. read kerrys own speaches of the time. he clearly said if the un wouldnt back it then we go it alone. how soon you lefties forget what kerry himself said. instead opting to only recall what kerry is now saying since it changes to rapidly. what changed and please be specific at the time and with the information given he as well as the rest of the country thought iraq was a real threat with weapons at the ready. as time went on it was becoming clearer that iraq was not the threat initially claimed and when he say bushs battle plan with big dollars no end game and no way to pay for it he voted against it and as we can now all see kerry was correct. sorry to burst you right wing bubble but not everyone who disagrees with bush and his policies is a left wing liberal and the fact that you think so shows just how far to the right you are. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote complete bs. that can only happen if the total taxable wages becomes greater than it was prior to the tax cuts and nothing about these tax cuts is causing that. oh such ignorance! our governments source of revenue is not just income taxes. not even close. now i understand how the left is conned so easily through their own lack of economic and government understanding. also he claimed and as usual you right wingers distort to all hell that he will only raise the taxes of the top 10 percent and actually lower taxes for the middle class as well as eliminate the tax breaks for companies that outsource their jobs which is the only valid way to build the economy. which companies any who outsource any jobs if kerry does this then be prepared for a sudden loss of jobs especially the higher paying ones. you really need to look at the number of insourced jobs as well. it may suprise you. and btw that very outsourcing is a prime reason why the bs bush plan has no way to work. complete bs. when you tax the crap out of companies then add in above market value union wages many companies have no choice but to outsource. what incentive does kerry suggest to make companies want to stay here when their market is global im sure you realize that in some cases outsourcing actually creates jobs here. if the company could not farm its low skill jobs to lower paying areas then they would fold up shop and the higher paying corporate jobs that were here vanish. ya tax the crap out of anyone thats successful and make sure to nail those evil companies that hire so many people in this country so theyll leave our country and go elsewhere. lol and yours is a typical right wing distortion. the medium salary is based on the job type and area that it is in. if 1000 new jobs being created are fast food or retail type jobs whose median salary is $6.50 and hour and for $7.00 an hour and 100 new high tech jobs were created with a median income of $65000 that are now paying $30000 they can and do claim that 90% of the new jobs being created are way above the median salary. oh man youre way off base here. the labor report shows the median salary for all sectors combined. it also clearly shows that the new jobs created salaries are above this median salary for the entire job sector not just your fast food market. the median salary for all workers combined has gone up not down and is well above inflation. go read up on the labor report a bit and quit repeating the liberal propaganda. geez how you people buy into this stuff so easily absent of actual facts. things were great when clinton was president. the economy was growing when clinton first took office. it was falling when he left. sorry but i do not agree that a bubble economy fed by massive blind investments into companies that only existed on paper is considered great. thats where the money came from and thats where the money went. things were great when reagan he inherited a mess from carter. he lowered taxes and things took off. very similar to what we are seeing with bush. during the reagan years the dems used the same bs that you are to say how bad the economy was despite the growing economic reports. .

From : milesh

roy wrote just a quick question about these jobs that fall above the median salary where and whose median salary the gang at mc ds these are shit jobs with no benefits. no. look at the labor report. look at the overall stats and not individual markets. it clearly shows that the new jobs created are not low paying burger flipping jobs. the labor report shows the median salary for all jobs across all sectors. it also shows the median salary for new jobs created. the new jobs created are in higher paying sectors even if that goes against ones political views! oh congrats on the new truck!! thanks! maybe ill get to drive it soon. now all i gotta do is get rid of her old car. wanna buy a 1999 isuzu amigo 4x4 it is fast! .

From : tbone

on 10 aug 2004 185619 edt milesh milesh@nounwantedspam.com wrote snip go read up on the labor report a bit and quit repeating the liberal propaganda. geez how you people buy into this stuff so easily absent of actual facts. maybe because it requires no thought g from some of your postings i can see why you would say that - -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : idaspode

on tue 10 aug 2004 232748 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote on 10 aug 2004 185619 edt milesh milesh@nounwantedspam.com wrote snip go read up on the labor report a bit and quit repeating the liberal propaganda. geez how you people buy into this stuff so easily absent of actual facts. maybe because it requires no thought g from some of your postings i can see why you would say that - thinking hurts sometimes especially at my age... g dj im not senile its just that my hard drive is almost full and i keep getting disk access errors... .

From : tbone

lol -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving on tue 10 aug 2004 232748 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote on 10 aug 2004 185619 edt milesh milesh@nounwantedspam.com wrote snip go read up on the labor report a bit and quit repeating the liberal propaganda. geez how you people buy into this stuff so easily absent of actual facts. maybe because it requires no thought g from some of your postings i can see why you would say that - thinking hurts sometimes especially at my age... g dj im not senile its just that my hard drive is almost full and i keep getting disk access errors... .

From : jerry

redneck tookover hell wrote google bush and find failure i googled tbone and got clueless fuckup dont complain thats still progress.......... .

From : tbone

tbone wrote complete bs. that can only happen if the total taxable wages becomes greater than it was prior to the tax cuts and nothing about these tax cuts is causing that. oh such ignorance! our governments source of revenue is not just income taxes. not even close. now i understand how the left is conned so easily through their own lack of economic and government understanding. really where then income taxes is a broad field that covers more than just peoples salaries. you do know that. right please explain it to us or are you just full of shit again. also he claimed and as usual you right wingers distort to all hell that he will only raise the taxes of the top 10 percent and actually lower taxes for the middle class as well as eliminate the tax breaks for companies that outsource their jobs which is the only valid way to build the economy. which companies any who outsource any jobs i believe thatr it is a percentage of jobs. if kerry does this then be prepared for a sudden loss of jobs especially the higher paying ones. oh bullshit. any higher paying job that could be outsourced are being outsourced or are getting ready to be outsourced. there will be no sudden job losses. you really need to look at the number of insourced jobs as well. it may suprise you. lol are you bringing up the auto-manufacturing again. the only reason these jobs are here is because it is cheaper to build them here than japan and these companies would not be effected anyway. and btw that very outsourcing is a prime reason why the bs bush plan has no way to work. complete bs. when you tax the crap out of companies then add in above market value union wages many companies have no choice but to outsource. yet more distortions. exactly what jobs are being outsourced by union companies then again if they are not outsourcing then they will not be effected. sorry but i have no sympathy for companies that pay their ceo 30+ million a year and then outsource jobs to stay proffitable. what incentive does kerry suggest to make companies want to stay here when their market is global talk about being conned. who gives a phuck if their market is global. they could ship products made here to those countries just as easily as they can make them elseware and ship them here. the incentive is to make it more cost effective for companies to keep the jobs here by giving the tax breaks to those that due. if there is no advantage to keeping the jobs here they will be outsourced. im sure you realize that in some cases outsourcing actually creates jobs here. that is complet bullshit and you know it. the right wing is easily conned by fuzzy math. if i outsourse 50 jobs and then create 5 higher paying ones what happens to the other 45 people. for every job that is created this way 5 or more are lost so tell me where is the employment gain if the company could not farm its low skill jobs to lower paying areas then they would fold up shop and the higher paying corporate jobs that were here vanish. man they really have you brainwashed. those jobs are going nowhere because if they could move them they would. perhaps some of these companies would go under but they would simply be replaced by other more efficient ones that had a more valid pay scale for their upper management and i have no problem with that. ya tax the crap out of anyone thats successful and make sure to nail those evil companies that hire so many people in this country so theyll leave our country and go elsewhere. more right wing crap. lol and yours is a typical right wing distortion. the medium salary is based on the job type and area that it is in. if 1000 new jobs being created are fast food or retail type jobs whose median salary is $6.50 and hour and for $7.00 an hour and 100 new high tech jobs were created with a median income of $65000 that are now paying $30000 they can and do claim that 90% of the new jobs being created are way above the median salary. oh man youre way off base here. the labor report shows the median salary for all sectors combined. no they dont since that would be a meaningless number. how can you compare the salary of an automotive technician in hollywood california to that of a neurosurgeon in new york city or a cashier at a local wallmart in kissimmee florida the answer is you cant. it looks like you are confusing the median household income with the median salary and they are two very different things. it also clearly shows that the new jobs created salaries are above this median salary for the entire job sector not just your fast food market. then post it so we all can see becase i think that you are full of it nd as roy asked where are they. the median salary for all workers combined has gone up not down and is well above inflation. no the median income has gone up but that

From : tbone

on tue 10 aug 2004 173042 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote lol it is not support for the war it is the simple fact that now that we are there we cant simply pull out and go away or it would be much worse than before we went it. it doesnt take a large amount of intelligence to figure that out. as for when it started he like just about everyone else was swept up in the horror of 9/11 and fed a lot of garbage information. if he were to say anything different he would have been branded as a traitor regardless of the outcome and you know it. so you are saying kerry either lied about his true feelings or ignored them for the sake of appearance among his peers and constituency not really but i can see where you might think that. what i said was that he got caught up in what was going on and based his decision on that and the information that he was given. however even if he didnt completely agree with it had he voted against it it would have been political suicide. this is a good quality for a president no but its one that all of them have including the current one. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote really where then omg!! just what i suspected. ya youre right. its all from income taxes. too funny. oh bullshit. any higher paying job that could be outsourced are being outsourced or are getting ready to be outsourced. there will be no sudden job losses. oh bullcrap. higher taxes means higher costs of doing business. great incentive to keep businesses growing. yup gotta punish all those evil greedy employers who have way too much excess cash. lol are you bringing up the auto-manufacturing again. the only reason these jobs are here is because it is cheaper to build them here than japan and these companies would not be effected anyway. exactly. same reason usa companies have plants elsewhere. it is cheaper. you think these companies who move out then export all their goods back to the usa it is a competive global market. so like you said. the companies are already leaving. so your plan is to tax the remaining. good incentive. yet more distortions. exactly what jobs are being outsourced by union companies then again if they are not outsourcing then they will not be effected. sorry but i have no sympathy for companies that pay their ceo 30+ million a year and then outsource jobs to stay proffitable. 30 million is a big exageration for the vast majority of large corporations but thats besides the point. if a new ceo comes online and increases sales 300 million then heck ya he deserves 10 million. dang liberals who take it upon themselves to say how much a person should be allowed to make. they are not asking for your sympathy. tax them and they leave. simple concept really. so from what you say if they do leave then thats ok by you who needs those greedy bastards anyways right talk about being conned. who gives a phuck if their market is global. they could ship products made here to those countries just as easily as they can make them elseware and ship them here. tax the heck out of them here and they can still be competitive especially with the higher salaries and costs of doing business try it and watch even more companies leave. who gives a phuck right the incentive is to make it more cost effective for companies to keep the jobs here by giving the tax breaks to those that due. if there is no advantage to keeping the jobs here they will be outsourced. there are many companies who do outsource but still have 1000s of jobs in the usa. they have the tax breaks and are outsourcing. so take the breaks away and what will happen they quit outsourcing or outsource even more i think the latter is far more likely. good plan there mr. kerry. that is complet bullshit and you know it. the right wing is easily conned by fuzzy math. if i outsourse 50 jobs and then create 5 higher paying ones what happens to the other 45 people. for every job that is created this way 5 or more are lost so tell me where is the employment gain not quite but yes the low paying jobs are outsourced and high paying jobs are created from the increased business. is it better to outsource the high paying jobs and have lots of low paying jobs here man they really have you brainwashed. those jobs are going nowhere because if they could move them they would. they are. they move the jobs where cost savings is the greatest. mostly the lower paying jobs. perhaps some of these companies would go under but they would simply be replaced by other more efficient ones that had a more valid pay scale for their upper management and i have no problem with that. no they wouldnt. the upper manegement isnt their major cost of doing business. no they dont since that would be a meaningless number. how can you compare the salary of an automotive technician in hollywood california to that of a neurosurgeon in new york city or a cashier at a local wallmart in kissimmee florida huh it is not a comparison. its the median salary for all people working in the usa. you do understand the different between median and average right the labor report most certainly does show the median salary for all sectors combined as well as break it down by sector. no the median income has gone up but that doesnt take into account the number of jobs or the amount of overtime that the workers are doing to get there. yes it does. it shows median per person per hour. go look again. keep reading. i did and it is seperated by both state and job type. one report does. there are many more. keep reading. i already had to do your homework for you once regarding the labor report or did you already forget that incident awhile back that is a complete load of shit. if that were the case then why did bush lose the election. sigh. economic growth indicators are a matter of public record. look them up. the economy was growing in bush srs last year in office. that is true but it didnt s

From : milesh

tbone wrote lol more of the paranoid right wing spin. i never said that they or anyone esle make too much nor have i set a limit on how much they should make. you most certainly did. you think ceos make too much as well as other top brass. i am asking you how much these people should be making. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote really where then omg!! just what i suspected. ya youre right. its all from income taxes. too funny. since you were once again unable to back up what you say ... oh bullshit. any higher paying job that could be outsourced are being outsourced or are getting ready to be outsourced. there will be no sudden job losses. oh bullcrap. higher taxes means higher costs of doing business. great incentive to keep businesses growing. yup gotta punish all those evil greedy employers who have way too much excess cash. what does punishment have to do with it they were given these tax breaks to allow for the creation of more american jobs with the hope of recovering this money through income tax of the new employees hence a win win. if the companies instead keep the money and create the jobs off shore then why should they get the tax breaks. lol are you bringing up the auto-manufacturing again. the only reason these jobs are here is because it is cheaper to build them here than japan and these companies would not be effected anyway. exactly. same reason usa companies have plants elsewhere. it is cheaper. you think these companies who move out then export all their goods back to the usa it is a competive global market. no it isnt. we dont stand a chance. the only way that we can make it competitive is to enforce our trade deficits and that is not happening. so like you said. the companies are already leaving. so your plan is to tax the remaining. good incentive. lol yet more right wing spin. companies like ibm are not going anywhere and yet they recieve huge tax incentives while they export thousands of jobs for no other reason but to increase their already huge profits. the plan is to make these companies earn those tax incentives and take them away from companies that dont. yet more distortions. exactly what jobs are being outsourced by union companies then again if they are not outsourcing then they will not be effected. sorry but i have no sympathy for companies that pay their ceo 30+ million a year and then outsource jobs to stay proffitable. 30 million is a big exageration for the vast majority of large corporations but thats besides the point. then you had better do a little more research there dude. cnbc did a segmant on the the 10 biggest salary increases last year. the top increase was 15 million and the bottom was 5 million and all of these companies eliminated 100s of jobs the year before. if a new ceo comes online and increases sales 300 million then heck ya he deserves 10 million. dang liberals who take it upon themselves to say how much a person should be allowed to make. more spin and paranoia. why is he entitled to 10 million he is just doing his job. that money should go to the stock holders with a possiblebig fat bonus going to the ceo. now if that ceo loses 300 million the following year should he have to pay the company 10 million the problem with these salarys is the expence it is to the company when times are hard. they are not asking for your sympathy. tax them and they leave. simple concept really. so from what you say if they do leave then thats ok by you who needs those greedy bastards anyways right if they leave others will come in and take their place. that is just the way it works. talk about being conned. who gives a phuck if their market is global. they could ship products made here to those countries just as easily as they can make them elseware and ship them here. tax the heck out of them here and they can still be competitive especially with the higher salaries and costs of doing business try it and watch even more companies leave. who gives a phuck right they will only leave if it is proffitable to do so and that is not always the case. where do you think that all of these companies are going to go if they all move to mexico then the cost of doing buisness there will skyrocket as well and they know this. also lets not forget that this is a tax not a flat fee. if they make no money then they pay no taxes. the incentive is to make it more cost effective for companies to keep the jobs here by giving the tax breaks to those that due. if there is no advantage to keeping the jobs here they will be outsourced. there are many companies who do outsource but still have 1000s of jobs in the usa. they have the tax breaks and are outsourcing. so take the breaks away and what will happen they quit outsourcing or outsource even more i think the latter is far more likely. good plan there mr. kerry. lol now that depends on the how big the tax breaks are to begin with doesnt it. the decision will simply boil down to what makes the most money lose the tax break or move the jobs back to the us and keep it. im sure that it will be worked out to make the advantage toward moving jobs back to the

From : miles

tbone wrote lol yet more right wing spin. companies like ibm are not going anywhere and yet they recieve huge tax incentives while they export thousands of jobs for no other reason but to increase their already huge profits. the plan is to make these companies earn those tax incentives and take them away from companies that dont. there we go again. yep ibm is another of those evil companies that make way too much money. how much do they make tbone how much should they be making tbone just how much should we lower their profits to be in line with your liberal logic the left keeps saying they make too much but cant quantify their own statements. then you had better do a little more research there dude. cnbc did a segmant on the the 10 biggest salary increases last year. the top increase was 15 million and the bottom was 5 million and all of these companies eliminated 100s of jobs the year before. so what what percent of these businesses operating expenses are these salaries youre picking out 10 companies and attempting to apply it to 100s or more across the country. lowering the ceos salary is not going to make a company profitable that isnt. dang liberal you make too much mentality. more spin and paranoia. why is he entitled to 10 million he is just doing his job. that money should go to the stock holders with a possiblebig fat bonus going to the ceo. now if that ceo loses 300 million the following year should he have to pay the company 10 million the problem with these salarys is the expence it is to the company when times are hard. it has no appreciable effect on the bottom line and has little to do with whether or not the company is making a good profit and can remain competitive here. youre looking at it from the perspective that x amount of $s is too much for a person to earn rather than looking at a far larger picture. they will only leave if it is proffitable to do so and that is not always the case. where do you think that all of these companies are going to go if they all move to mexico then the cost of doing buisness there will skyrocket as well and they know this. over time yes it will. as a companies costs go up they do what it takes to get those costs back down. what many lefties seem to think is that those companies in mexico only make cars that are sold back to the usa. and that is flat out wrong. it is a global market. bs its more like the easiest ones to outsource are outsourced and the higher the pay was the more that they save by doing it. most jobs that out outsourced are by far the lower paying ones. tech support call centers dell hp etc. are a big area of outsourced jobs. insourced jobs in the industrial manufacturing and aerospace industry are much higher paying. that depends on the company. most new companies do not pay their ceo in the millions but i bet that ibm does and i know that at&t does. it is not a major cost of doing business as a whole. their bottom line is not effected appreciably. iows their salaries are not gonna cause a make/break scenario. lol it was just starting to recover on its own pretty much like its doing now and oh look its his son this time. now if kerry can make the economy take off like clinton did.... what did clinton do himself that made the economy take off and you consider blind investing into non-existant companies a good way for the economy to grow rapidly yawn more bullshit. it was the stock trading companies that were prepetuatiog the buy bs so that they could keep making their money and the wealthy kept saying just stick it out until they could sell theirs. huh this is true. but whats that got to do with economists predictions of a resulting massive failure and clinton and gore ignoring those predictions during gores campaign they both kept telling us how great things were. yes it is on a schedual. schedule too funny. the feds meet every month and look at how the economy has been doing. you think they meet once and then decide on raising the rates a bit each month for the next 6 months on a schedule or something this is too funny! lol enough with the spin and bullshit already. i didnt say that anything was tanking just that it has slowed down and they are raising the rates because it is time because it is time they have some sorta clock that dings and says time to raise the rates they look at what the market is doing and act accordingly. .

From : miles

tbone wrote how much money do you really think that they have to buy cars see tbone youre guessing here about the economics of mexico etc. youre using the age old myth that mexico is mostly poor run down with only a few rich people. yes there are affluent areas in mexico but they are few and far between. bull crap. you have no clue bonehead. there is far more money in mexico than you and so many clueless people realize. oh never mind ya youre right almost everyone is dirt poor lives in a shack and rides a mule. my mistake. lol how huge lets see the numbers and im talking about mexican citizens not tour companies and americans who have summer homes there and would buy those vehicles here. mexico new car sales topped 1 million for 2003. i realize that the uss market is about 4 times that per capita but the strong rise in sales in mexico indicates that there are more than just a few rich people buying cars as you think. ya theyre mostly to americans down there im sure. http//www.dailystar.com/dailystar/relatedarticles/22488.php a sudden rise in interest rates would crash the market and the fed knows it. so would a rapid rise in taxes should kerry be elected. oh ya only the rich and theyre evil anyways. .

From : jerry

roy wrote and whose median salary usa = $25130 is the present median salary not a spin just how it is around here. around here huh ............. like i said some people simply sit on their ass and expect the jobs to come to them. if there is no employment where you are you relocate. again relocate. around here it will cost 1100 -1500 for a 2 bedroom apartment in a area where ya dont have to carry. figure utilities food clothing medical insurance have you folks noticed that it is all hmos very few comphrensive plans and that 25130 is eaten up pretty quick. i guess you can forget a car. dont think about buying a house on that income. the place in the bay area i moved from in 2000 $1500 wouldnt get your dog a place to live. that doesnt mean a damn thing where your are does it and it doesnt mean damn thing where im presently located that it cost however much to live where you are now. how many times does it need to be said if they cant support their family where they live then they need to go somewhere where they can. or i guess they could just sit there and bitch like some do now. btw even at my age 20-30 years olds are not kids and if they wanted to play house the the smart thing is to wait until they can afford to. also take a look at the stocks the past few days. not all that pretty. and that has a bearing on what best i recall they go up and down all the time. jerry .

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol yet more right wing spin. companies like ibm are not going anywhere and yet they recieve huge tax incentives while they export thousands of jobs for no other reason but to increase their already huge profits. the plan is to make these companies earn those tax incentives and take them away from companies that dont. there we go again. yep ibm is another of those evil companies that make way too much money. how much do they make tbone how much should they be making tbone just how much should we lower their profits to be in line with your liberal logic the left keeps saying they make too much but cant quantify their own statements. lol more of the paranoid right wing spin. i never said that they or anyone esle make too much nor have i set a limit on how much they should make. but if they make profits in the billions or even high millions then why do they need or should they get tax incentives. these were given so that the companies then you had better do a little more research there dude. cnbc did a segmant on the the 10 biggest salary increases last year. the top increase was 15 million and the bottom was 5 million and all of these companies eliminated 100s of jobs the year before. so what what percent of these businesses operating expenses are these salaries youre picking out 10 companies and attempting to apply it to 100s or more across the country. lowering the ceos salary is not going to make a company profitable that isnt. dang liberal you make too much mentality. once again taking out of your ass. if they can lay off 50 workers making 50000 and return to profitability there is a savings of 2.5 million. if the ceo was making 5 million cutting his salary in half would equate to the same thing with no job loss at all and the ceo still being rich but that is one hard decision that they are never willing to make. why do you think that is greed perhaps by your logic if the ceo increases profits he should get a huge salary bump then it would only make sense that if the company loses money on his watch that he also be held responsible and give some of that money back up. i dont know why your brain is incapable of contemplating simple logic i guess that it is just that right wing greed that you have blocking it. more spin and paranoia. why is he entitled to 10 million he is just doing his job. that money should go to the stock holders with a possiblebig fat bonus going to the ceo. now if that ceo loses 300 million the following year should he have to pay the company 10 million the problem with these salarys is the expence it is to the company when times are hard. it has no appreciable effect on the bottom line and has little to do with whether or not the company is making a good profit and can remain competitive here. youre looking at it from the perspective that x amount of $s is too much for a person to earn rather than looking at a far larger picture. they will only leave if it is proffitable to do so and that is not always the case. where do you think that all of these companies are going to go if they all move to mexico then the cost of doing buisness there will skyrocket as well and they know this. over time yes it will. as a companies costs go up they do what it takes to get those costs back down. what many lefties seem to think is that those companies in mexico only make cars that are sold back to the usa. and that is flat out wrong. it is a global market. bs its more like the easiest ones to outsource are outsourced and the higher the pay was the more that they save by doing it. most jobs that out outsourced are by far the lower paying ones. tech support call centers dell hp etc. are a big area of outsourced jobs. insourced jobs in the industrial manufacturing and aerospace industry are much higher paying. that depends on the company. most new companies do not pay their ceo in the millions but i bet that ibm does and i know that at&t does. it is not a major cost of doing business as a whole. their bottom line is not effected appreciably. iows their salaries are not gonna cause a make/break scenario. lol it was just starting to recover on its own pretty much like its doing now and oh look its his son this time. now if kerry can make the economy take off like clinton did.... what did clinton do himself that made the economy take off and you consider blind investing into non-existant companies a good way for the economy to grow rapidly yawn more bullshit. it was the stock trading companies that were prepetuatiog the buy bs so that they could keep making their money and the wealthy kept saying just stick it out until they could sell theirs. huh this is true. but whats that got to do with economists predictions of a resulting massive failure and clinton and gore ignoring those predictions during gores campaign the

From : tbone

well that last one got away from me so ill continue it here. more spin and paranoia. why is he entitled to 10 million he is just doing his job. that money should go to the stock holders with a possiblebig fat bonus going to the ceo. now if that ceo loses 300 million the following year should he have to pay the company 10 million the problem with these salarys is the expence it is to the company when times are hard. it has no appreciable effect on the bottom line and has little to do with whether or not the company is making a good profit and can remain competitive here. youre looking at it from the perspective that x amount of $s is too much for a person to earn rather than looking at a far larger picture. more complete bullshit. 1 5 10 or 20 million always has an effect on the bottom line and if you dont understand that then you really are just an idiot. seeing someone making millions letting people go to save money and calling it the hard decision is bullshit to anyone with a functioning brain. the only one that is is hard on are the ones being let go. the really harddecision would be for the one making millions to cut his own salary to save those job but you almost never see that happen. they will only leave if it is proffitable to do so and that is not always the case. where do you think that all of these companies are going to go if they all move to mexico then the cost of doing buisness there will skyrocket as well and they know this. over time yes it will. lol only in your distorted dreams. as a companies costs go up they do what it takes to get those costs back down. what many lefties seem to think is that those companies in mexico only make cars that are sold back to the usa. and that is flat out wrong. it is a global market. lol once again speaking with your head up your ass. what are you even talking about ford and gm have plants all over the world to build cars for the markets in the countries that they sell in just like japan does here. funny how toyota can build there cars here and still make a good profit. bs its more like the easiest ones to outsource are outsourced and the higher the pay was the more that they save by doing it. most jobs that out outsourced are by far the lower paying ones. tech support call centers dell hp etc. are a big area of outsourced jobs. funny but i know a few people that work in tech support centers and they are not exactly low paying jobs one is working as level 3 support and makes about 62000. another works as level one and makes about 40000. what jobs are these people going to get when the jobs that they know are gone to india. dell btw is reversing its outsourcing stance and beginning to bring the jobs back to the us. insourced jobs in the industrial manufacturing and aerospace industry are much higher paying. now how is reducing outsourcing in any way going to effect insourced jobs or is this just another right wing spin they are two very different things and have nothing to do with each other. also what is the ratio between outsourced and insourced jobs. that depends on the company. most new companies do not pay their ceo in the millions but i bet that ibm does and i know that at&t does. it is not a major cost of doing business as a whole. lol complete bs. their bottom line is not effected appreciably. iows their salaries are not gonna cause a make/break scenario. only because that is what you choose to believe and as usual it is wrong. 5 10 or 20 million dollars has a major effect on the bottom line and if not then why do they lay people off and then make the rest work harder or why do they outsource jobs lol it was just starting to recover on its own pretty much like its doing now and oh look its his son this time. now if kerry can make the economy take off like clinton did.... what did clinton do himself that made the economy take off gee i dont know how about nafta. i personally didnt like it as i knew that its purpose wold be corrupted by corporate greed and gee look what happened. and you consider blind investing into non-existant companies a good way for the economy to grow rapidly did i say that if so then show me where otherwise please stop putting words into my mouth to bolster you weak arguments. yawn more bullshit. it was the stock trading companies that were prepetuatiog the buy bs so that they could keep making their money and the wealthy kept saying just stick it out until they could sell theirs. huh this is true. but whats that got to do with economists predictions of a resulting massive failure and clinton and gore ignoring those predictions during gores campaign what exactly were they going to do even bush didnt say anything about it. the fact is that nobody really knew what was going to happen and the real failure came from the transportation system and in p

From : idaspode

on wed 11 aug 2004 150752 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote it has no appreciable effect on the bottom line and has little to do with whether or not the company is making a good profit and can remain competitive here. youre looking at it from the perspective that x amount of $s is too much for a person to earn rather than looking at a far larger picture. more complete bullshit. 1 5 10 or 20 million always has an effect on the bottom line and if you dont understand that then you really are just an idiot. seeing someone making millions letting people go to save money and calling it the hard decision is bullshit to anyone with a functioning brain. the only one that is is hard on are the ones being let go. the really harddecision would be for the one making millions to cut his own salary to save those job but you almost never see that happen. i know what youre talking about here tb. kinda hard to understand telling joe average worker his health insurance cost will double to cut costs and stay competitive and in the next breath say how the ceo got a multimillion dollar bonus. steve appleton micron ceo refused to take a salary until the company once again became profitable. i forget when he started this but this last quarter they once again paid out profit sharing to the employees i assume steve is once again on the payroll... dj .

From : milesh

tbone wrote lol once again speaking with your head up your ass. what are you even talking about ford and gm have plants all over the world to build cars for the markets in the countries that they sell in just like japan does here. funny how toyota can build there cars here and still make a good profit. how many of those toyotas built in the usa are exported to other countries say mexico central and south america how many dodges fords etc. built in mexico are for sale in mexico central and south america funny but i know a few people that work in tech support centers and they are not exactly low paying jobs how much do you know about that business you know a few people what the heck does that change what tier level are they level 1s are not going to make 40k-62k. these jobs have not gone to india. there are 1000s of low paying tier 1 call center jobs that have been outsourced. you want to argue that point because you know a few people rofl. gee i dont know how about nafta. rofl. i asked what clinton did that caused the economy to grow and nafta is your answer too funny. what exactly were they going to do even bush didnt say anything about it. bull! complete utter bull! bush most certainly did talk about the economists predictions of a falling economy during his campaign. gore continued to tell people bush was wrong and things were great. oh geez if that isnt one of your bigger blunders. the fact is that nobody really knew what was going to happen and the real failure came from the transportation system and in part from the advertising companies dishonesty. the economy fell when the paper companies never produced a product and died along with them trillions in investments. perhaps you should actually watch the financial channels like cnbc every now and then. the fed decided that it was time to begin raising the rates a few months ago to prevent inflation and provide a cushion in case of an economic slowdown or a terrorist attack. they then set up a schedual of rate increases to do it in in small increments so as not to knock the economy on its ass by raising them too fast and the last two were part of that schedual as is another in september although economic indicators suggest that the september one may be delayed. bull. when the feds meet they review the past month and make their predictions for the future. if it looks like inflation might rise they raise the rates. why do you think stock investors wait till their decision is made to act why do you think the stocks move up and down when the feds announce whether they will raise or lower or do nothing if its on a schedule they would know already. geez another stupid claim by the bonehead. .

From : milesh

idaspode wrote i know what youre talking about here tb. kinda hard to understand telling joe average worker his health insurance cost will double to cut costs and stay competitive and in the next breath say how the ceo got a multimillion dollar bonus. the problem is with the far left using a few stories in the about high paid ceos and attempting to apply it across the board to most large corporations. people like tbone keep bringing up the same few ceos over and over and use it to lean towards policies effecting a far broader spectrum. dang left and their narrow minded emotionally based wisdom applied to the masses. .

From : roy

roy wrote just a quick question about these jobs that fall above the median salary where come on roy i know your smarter than to start repeating party line spin. the jobs are everywhere but to many people expect the jobs to come to them and relocation seems to be a dirty word to them. and whose median salary usa = $25130 is the present median salary not a spin just how it is around here. around here it will cost 1100 -1500 for a 2 bedroom apartment in a area where ya dont have to carry. figure utilities food clothing medical insurance have you folks noticed that it is all hmos very few comphrensive plans and that 25130 is eaten up pretty quick. i guess you can forget a car. dont think about buying a house on that income. also take a look at the stocks the past few days. not all that pretty. roy http//www.payscale.com/salary-survey/aid-6837/raname-salary/rid-182/fid-6886 the gang at mc ds these are shit jobs with no benefits. if you are trying to support a family yes but in reality how many people do you actually know that are really trying to do that. i think if you are honest about it you find people working those places are teenagers or people that havent the education or skills to work anywhere else and that will never change until they gain those skills. a lot not all of these people simply will never apply themselves to moving anywhere but these low paying jobs. how about a couple of 20 -30 year old kids trying to make a life together with no help from their parents some good information here that explains a lot with no spin. ftp//ftp.bls.gov/pub/.release/empsit.txt maybe your counting those good jobs that went off shore or otherwise out of the country. now that i think about it didnt bush say that it was good for the economy or some such no bush didnt say that. it was the white house spokesman during a conference that made that comment. there was a clarification from the labor department that explained the thinking behind the comment. the clarification was sound but as usual those wanting to make hay from the comment have spun it into another direction. from perhaps your point of view it was sound but it wasnt to those who had 1 decent job and now are working 2 of these wonderful new jobs and still make less than they did before. aint doing this anymore just my view on things. see ya at the polls. roy .

From : milesh

tbone wrote thanks jerry but this number really means nothing. could you raise a family and own or even rent an comfortable home in a safe neighborhood for $25000 i was making around that about 10 years ago when i bought my first house and could just about make ends meet and i was alone at the time with no car payments or outstanding dept. i just sold that house for 3 times what i paid for it which would indicate that you would need to probably make around $65000 to $75000 a year to buy it now and it was sorta in the middle of nowhere for nj. good luck trying to feed and cloth a wife and kids in todays world at that salary. i hate to burst your bubble but that is far from a booming economy. let me get this straight. $25000 median income is far from a booming economy right but it is higher than the median income during the clinton booming economy years. and yes the numbers are adjusted for inflation etc. guess those 90s werent really booming after all. glad we got that straightend out! .

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol once again speaking with your head up your ass. what are you even talking about ford and gm have plants all over the world to build cars for the markets in the countries that they sell in just like japan does here. funny how toyota can build there cars here and still make a good profit. how many of those toyotas built in the usa are exported to other countries say mexico central and south america probably very few as the economies in those countries dont allow the masses the luxury of buying many new cars. how many dodges fords etc. built in mexico are for sale in mexico central and south america read above and then add in the fact that most american cars are now gas sucking suvs and the number drops even lower. funny but i know a few people that work in tech support centers and they are not exactly low paying jobs how much do you know about that business lol i am a systems admin on the unix side aix and a programmer. i also ran my own independant contractor buisness for a few years. my wife works in qa at the company where we met and was in support herself for a few years. you know a few people what the heck does that change what tier level

From : jerry

tbone wrote if you say its not then back it up. i think that ill believe the economists who say otherwise over you espesially when you never back anything up. hell why dont you shock us all and back up something yourself..... you wont you never do but still demand it. im still waiting for the number and link on your group median salary. http//www.payscale.com/salary-survey/aid-6837/raname-salary/rid-182/fid-6886 your turn troll boy ......... jerry .

From : milesh

tbone wrote probably very few as the economies in those countries dont allow the masses the luxury of buying many new cars. another blunder from the bonehead. why do so many lefties have no clue about mexico and south america they buy new cars there lots of them. theres alot more money in these countries than you realize lots more. you have family there i do and in brazil as well. read above and then add in the fact that most american cars are now gas sucking suvs and the number drops even lower. sure about that the suv and truck market is huge south of the border. quit guessing. they most certainly have. tier 3 support jobs have not gone to india in masses. mostly tier 1. call dell or hp. first you connect with someone in india. escalate your call. once you reach tier 3 support ask for a name and number. its in the usa. if you say its not then back it up. i think that ill believe the economists who say otherwise over you the economists very clearly said the rapid rise in money in this country was the willingness of people to invest trillions into new tech stocks. they also later noted this is the main reason for the economies predictable drop. nafta....oh man thats funny. lol not true. many companies have no production. hell just about the entire retail market does not produce anything they just move goods that were already produced. huh ok to clear things up. people invested trillions into companies that did nothing no product no service or did provide some product or service in new technologies that fizzled. they invested in a belief that failed badly. i know youll say it aint so but that doesnt change facts. nafta...rofl. and they do but like any schedule and the economy itelf for that matter nothing is cast in stone and conditions can cause things to change. no they dont. investors predict what they think the feds will do. they closely watch what the feds say and try to read them. investors make educated guesses. the feds do not have a set schedule to adhere too. too funny. .

From : tbone

idaspode wrote i know what youre talking about here tb. kinda hard to understand telling joe average worker his health insurance cost will double to cut costs and stay competitive and in the next breath say how the ceo got a multimillion dollar bonus. the problem is with the far left using a few stories in the about high paid ceos and attempting to apply it across the board to most large corporations. people like tbone keep bringing up the same few ceos over and over and use it to lean towards policies effecting a far broader spectrum. dang left and their narrow minded emotionally based wisdom applied to the masses. this really shows you ignorance miles that every time someone doesnt agree with you limited viewpoit that they are some far left wing liberal. it can and is applied to just about all large corporations and if you say different prove it. now you also really need to stop generating ficticious statements like me bringing the same people up over and over. whae exactly have i done that -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote it can and is applied to just about all large corporations all large corporations are headed up by greedy overpaid ceos if thats true which it isnt then the same can be said about large unions headed up by overpaid corrupt union leaders. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote it can and is applied to just about all large corporations all large corporations are headed up by greedy overpaid ceos all - no most - yes. you either need to cut back on the spin or take more time to comprehend what you read. when the ceo is making 50 to 100 times what the average employee does yes that is fucking greedy. as for corruption that kinda comes with the territory. as they say absolute power in this case money corrupts absolutely. if thats true which it isnt then the same can be said about large unions headed up by overpaid corrupt union leaders. duh no shit sherlock! unions have sadly become one of the most corrupt institutions in buisness. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol more of the paranoid right wing spin. i never said that they or anyone esle make too much nor have i set a limit on how much they should make. you most certainly did. you think ceos make too much as well as other top brass. i am asking you how much these people should be making. i didnt say all i said some. as for how much who knows but 50 to 100 times that of the average employee is just greedy any way you look at it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote if you say its not then back it up. i think that ill believe the economists who say otherwise over you espesially when you never back anything up. hell why dont you shock us all and back up something yourself..... you wont you never do but still demand it. im still waiting for the number and link on your group median salary. http//www.payscale.com/salary-survey/aid-6837/raname-salary/rid-182/fid-6886 thanks jerry but this number really means nothing. could you raise a family and own or even rent an comfortable home in a safe neighborhood for $25000 i was making around that about 10 years ago when i bought my first house and could just about make ends meet and i was alone at the time with no car payments or outstanding dept. i just sold that house for 3 times what i paid for it which would indicate that you would need to probably make around $65000 to $75000 a year to buy it now and it was sorta in the middle of nowhere for nj. good luck trying to feed and cloth a wife and kids in todays world at that salary. i hate to burst your bubble but that is far from a booming economy. your turn troll boy ......... lol im still waiting for your list of accomplishments from bushs term so far. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

roy wrote just a quick question about these jobs that fall above the median salary where come on roy i know your smarter than to start repeating party line spin. the jobs are everywhere but to many people expect the jobs to come to them and relocation seems to be a dirty word to them. lol yea sure they are. where exactly are they the problem is that for every one of them that appears there are 100 people applying for it and the usually want a master degree in something and 10 years experience and all for the stunning salary of $25130. could you raise a family in a safe and comfortabe home on that maybe your counting those good jobs that went off shore or otherwise out of the country. now that i think about it didnt bush say that it was good for the economy or some such no bush didnt say that. it was the white house spokesman during a conference that made that comment. there was a clarification from the labor department that explained the thinking behind the comment. the clarification was sound but as usual those wanting to make hay from the comment have spun it into another direction. that is because the clarification was bullshit and you know it. hell even from a simple math perspective it makes no sense. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : jerry

are they i thought that i answered that. one is at tier 1 a few in tier 2 and one in tier 3. did you forget how to read or did the word level throw you now is the spin ever goint to stop with you. i said that i know a few people in support. most of my friends my wife and myself are in the buisness. level 1s are not going to make 40k-62k. who said that they were or are you just in another one of your desperate spins again it seem that i have to spend most of my time just unspinning your bs. these jobs have not gone to india. they most certainly have. there are 1000s of low paying tier 1 call center jobs that have been outsourced. and many tier 2s as well. the point is where are these people going to find work and where are they going to find competent tier 2 and 3 workers when all of the lower positions are in india. oh - i know - they will just outsource them too and then claim that they could not find anyone competent here for the position. the fact that they were the ones that caused it will of course be hidden and denied by right wing puppets like yourself. you want to argue that point because you know a few people rofl. your spin is getting old or maybe it really is that you have limited comprehention. i argue the point because its true and that really bothers you doesnt it. gee i dont know how about nafta. rofl. i asked what clinton did that caused the economy to grow and nafta is your answer too funny. if you say its not then back it up. i think that ill believe the economists who say otherwise over you espesially when you never back anything up. im still waiting for the number and link on your group median salary. the fact is that nobody really knew what was going to happen and the real failure came from the transportation system and in part from the advertising companies dishonesty. the economy fell when the paper companies never produced a product and died along with them trillions in investments. lol not true. many companies have no production. hell just about the entire retail market does not produce anything they just move goods that were already produced. perhaps you should actually watch the financial channels like cnbc every now and then. the fed decided that it was time to begin raising the rates a few months ago to prevent inflation and provide a cushion in case of an economic slowdown or a terrorist attack. they then set up a schedual of rate increases to do it in in small increments so as not to knock the economy on its ass by raising them too fast and the last two were part of that schedual as is another in september although economic indicators suggest that the september one may be delayed. bull. when the feds meet they review the past month and make their predictions for the future. if it looks like inflation might rise they raise the rates. wrong. it is not a random thing at the moment. the rates have been to low for to long and the fed needed to raise them and set a schedule in order to do it with minimal impact on the economy. granted things are subject to change but that does not mean that there is no schedule or game plan. i guess that simpleton right wing thinking is getting to you again. why do you think stock investors wait till their decision is made to act why do you think the stocks move up and down when the feds announce whether they will raise or lower or do nothing lol while that is normally true the investors knew about the rate increase this time and in september. they wait because things can change depending on the economic conditions at the time. many economists are already putting into doubt the scheduled rate increase for september due to current indicators. if its on a schedule they would know already. and they do but like any schedule and the economy itelf for that matter nothing is cast in stone and conditions can cause things to change. geez another stupid claim by the bonehead. gee another desperate spin by the right wing puppet. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving . 222 287151 dktsc.17657$9y6.8547@read1..pas.earthlink.net roy wrote just a quick question about these jobs that fall above the median salary where come on roy i know your smarter than to start repeating party line spin. the jobs are everywhere but to many people expect the jobs to come to them and relocation seems to be a dirty word to them. and whose median salary usa = $25130 is the present median salary http//www.payscale.com/salary-survey/aid-6837/raname-salary/rid-182/fid-6886 the gang at mc ds these are shit jobs with no benefits. if you are trying to support a family yes but in reality how many people do you actually know that are really trying to do that. i think if you are honest about it you find people working those places are teenagers or people that havent t

From : milesh

roy wrote usa = $25130 is the present median salary not a spin just how it is around here. around here it will cost 1100 -1500 for a 2 bedroom apartment in a area where ya dont have to carry. figure utilities food clothing medical insurance have you folks noticed that it is all hmos very few comphrensive plans and that 25130 is eaten up pretty quick. i guess you can forget a car. dont think about buying a house on that income. true but it is higher than the so called booming years of the 90s. so if its an indicator for today then it should be applied for comparison to other years. strange how people look at stats differently depending on what they want them to tell. .

From : roy

roy wrote usa = $25130 is the present median salary not a spin just how it is around here. around here it will cost 1100 -1500 for a 2 bedroom apartment in a area where ya dont have to carry. figure utilities food clothing medical insurance have you folks noticed that it is all hmos very few comphrensive plans and that 25130 is eaten up pretty quick. i guess you can forget a car. dont think about buying a house on that income. true but it is higher than the so called booming years of the 90s. so if its an indicator for today then it should be applied for comparison to other years. strange how people look at stats differently depending on what they want them to tell. fine lets compare some more. that 2 bdr. apartment rent was 500 -800 a month. a house that now costs 350k could be bought for 125k. also most jobs came with medical benefits paid by the company with out a employee contribution. i agree stats can be twisted to suit the argument as im sure we will see here. hows it go figures never lie but liars always figure. im done again. i hope ya get yer idle fixed. roy .

From : tbone

tbone wrote probably very few as the economies in those countries dont allow the masses the luxury of buying many new cars. another blunder from the bonehead. why do so many lefties have no clue about mexico and south america yawn they buy new cars there lots of them. really lol. exactly how many is lots of them theres alot more money in these countries than you realize lots more. first of all pinhead its a lot not alot. and yes there is money in these countries but it is concentrated to the few rich much like this country. the difference is that the standard of living there is much lower than it is here. why do you think that we outsource so much manufacturing there. what we have to pay an american per hour here we can pay a mexican workers per week there. how much money do you really think that they have to buy cars you have family there i do and in brazil as well. you seem to have family everywhere and yet you seem to know nothing about the areas that they live in and that was made stunningly obvious in the alaska argument you had with a few residents. yes there are affluent areas in mexico but they are few and far between. you talk about the left putting the negative spin on gold when it is actually it is the right wing and you putting the gold spin on shit. read above and then add in the fact that most american cars are now gas sucking suvs and the number drops even lower. sure about that the suv and truck market is huge south of the border. quit guessing. lol how huge lets see the numbers and im talking about mexican citizens not tour companies and americans who have summer homes there and would buy those vehicles here. they most certainly have. tier 3 support jobs have not gone to india in masses. never said that they did spinmaster but some have gone and others will soon follow. mostly tier 1. call dell or hp. first you connect with someone in india. escalate your call. once you reach tier 3 support ask for a name and number. its in the usa. what about tier 2 its kinda a crap shoot there huh. soon tier 3 will be the crap shoot and then.... if you say its not then back it up. i think that ill believe the economists who say otherwise over you the economists very clearly said the rapid rise in money in this country was the willingness of people to invest trillions into new tech stocks. they also later noted this is the main reason for the economies predictable drop. nafta....oh man thats funny. yawn you really are proving yourself to be an idiot. funny how you accuse me and others of dwelling on the same point when that is in fact all that you do. the tech bubble that you keep harping on was near the end of clintons term while nafta was at the beginning and responsibe for the real growth. actually it ws the prior real growh that may have had an influence in the rapid growth of the tech bubble. lol not true. many companies have no production. hell just about the entire retail market does not produce anything they just move goods that were already produced. huh ok to clear things up. people invested trillions into companies that did nothing no product no service or did provide some product or service in new technologies that fizzled. really name some of these companies that provided no product or service ill wait. they invested in a belief that failed badly. i know youll say it aint so but that doesnt change facts. nafta...rofl. there are no guarantees in any investmet and yes many thought that the fantasy would last forever but it probably would not have crashed as badly as it did if people didn panic like they did. and they do but like any schedule and the economy itelf for that matter nothing is cast in stone and conditions can cause things to change. no they dont. lol perhaps you should tape and watch a show like morning call or closing bell anon cnbc and educate yourself a little. investors predict what they think the feds will do. they closely watch what the feds say and try to read them. investors make educated guesses. the feds do not have a set schedule to adhere too. too funny. na just too ignorant on your part. under normal circumstances what you say would be correct but these are not normal circumstances. now i know that it is beyond the typical right wing mentality to understand this but we are at war under terrorist threats and trying to emerge from a deep recession and despite the right wing crap about how robust the economy is it is still quite fragile due to the above. a sudden rise in interest rates would crash the market and the fed knows it. they also need to raise the rate so they set up a schedule of small rate increases so as not to crash the market. this schedule is not set in stone as changing market conditions can alter the amounts if it is warranted. -- if at first you dont succeed

From : jerry

tbone wrote tbone wrote if you say its not then back it up. i think that ill believe the economists who say otherwise over you espesially when you never back anything up. hell why dont you shock us all and back up something yourself..... you wont you never do but still demand it. im still waiting for the number and link on your group median salary. http//www.payscale.com/salary-survey/aid-6837/raname-salary/rid-182/fid-6886 thanks jerry but this number really means nothing. of course they dont mean anything to you because they were posted when you ask for them and if you accepted them for the fact they are you could not continue your bullshit spin. could you raise a family and own or even rent an comfortable home in a safe neighborhood for $25000 absolutely. i could even buy a home with that salary. not in san francisco but certainly in other locations. get out and meet the real world sometime. i was making around that about 10 years ago when i bought my first house and could just about make ends meet and i was alone at the time with no car payments or outstanding dept. then you were simply trying to live beyond your means in 1994 on $24000 a year or you were foolish enough to live somewhere where the salary didnt match your income..... good luck trying to feed and cloth a wife and kids in todays world at that salary. i hate to burst your bubble but that is far from a booming economy. bullshit i can name several mid western states where that is a good living for many people who probable have just as nice a home as you do and live just as comfortable as you do. your turn troll boy ......... lol im still waiting for your list of accomplishments from bushs term so far. youve been given that by a couple other people but you still have failed to respond to one single thing kerry has accomplished in the senate. jerry .

From : tbone

tbone wrote tbone wrote if you say its not then back it up. i think that ill believe the economists who say otherwise over you espesially when you never back anything up. hell why dont you shock us all and back up something yourself..... you wont you never do but still demand it. im still waiting for the number and link on your group median salary. http//www.payscale.com/salary-survey/aid-6837/raname-salary/rid-182/fid-6886 thanks jerry but this number really means nothing. of course they dont mean anything to you because they were posted when you ask for them and if you accepted them for the fact they are you could not continue your bullshit spin. actually jerry yes i can and it proves my point completely. $25000 doesnt buy shit today in all but the most remote areas. but better than that try clicking around on the median income of just about any hight tech job on this site and the numbers come out to at least twice that much. this indicates that the new great jobs that are being created are paying about 1/2 of what they used to but by the use of fuzzy right wing math and meaningless stats these new great jobs are well above the median salary. ok lucky us lol! could you raise a family and own or even rent an comfortable home in a safe neighborhood for $25000 absolutely. i could even buy a home with that salary. not in san francisco but certainly in other locations. get out and meet the real world sometime. ok jerry name some. the problem is that houses are cheep in certian areas for a reason. can you figure out why that is i was making around that about 10 years ago when i bought my first house and could just about make ends meet and i was alone at the time with no car payments or outstanding dept. then you were simply trying to live beyond your means in 1994 on $24000 a year or you were foolish enough to live somewhere where the salary didnt match your income..... i was living close to the end of my means just buying that house but it was worth it in the end. that still doesnt change the fact that in order to buy that house now you would need to make between $65000 to $75000 or have a lot of money in the bank and that is about 3 times the amount of this great median salary. good luck trying to feed and cloth a wife and kids in todays world at that salary. i hate to burst your bubble but that is far from a booming economy. bullshit i can name several mid western states where that is a good living for many people who probable have just as nice a home as you do and live just as comfortable as you do. while this may be true this median income is national so while you may be able to afford to buy such a house in the mid west could you easily find a job paying that much there and what about the rest of us that live on the east or west coast. are we all to be herded into the mid west to leave the rest of it for the wealthy your turn troll boy ......... lol im still waiting for your list of accomplishments from bushs term so far. youve been given that by a couple other people but you still have failed to respond to one single thing kerry has accomplished in the senate. no i havent. a few people gave some specific thing that did nothing for me or many others for that matter. all i got back so far were environmental rollbacks and tax cuts that have raised my cost of living. i am still waiting to hear from you on what you believe to be his great accomplishments. as for kerry i already said that i am unaware of any great accomplishments but i like what he has to say and some of his ideas and basically bush has failed. but tell me jerry what accomplishments did bush have before he was elected if this is you requirement to be elected. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

iman nassoul wrote well here in arlington tx he got the city to pay almost $200 million for a park for his baseball team for which we are still paying. the teams contribution to the park $0. it kinda sucks but most sports stadiums are public funded. only a few privately funded ones. .

From : iman nassoul

jerry jlrice1655@earthlink.net wrote tbone wrote good luck trying to feed and cloth a wife and kids in todays world at that salary. i hate to burst your bubble but that is far from a booming economy. bullshit i can name several mid western states where that is a good living for many people who probable have just as nice a home as you do and live just as comfortable as you do. yeah but can you find a job making $25000/yr there .

From : transurgeon

jerry jlrice1655@earthlink.net wrote tbone wrote good luck trying to feed and cloth a wife and kids in todays world at that salary. i hate to burst your bubble but that is far from a booming economy. bullshit i can name several mid western states where that is a good living for many people who probable have just as nice a home as you do and live just as comfortable as you do. yeah but can you find a job making $25000/yr there sure can just about any smaller city in id mt wy nd sd ne ks .

From : jerry

transurgeon wrote jerry jlrice1655@earthlink.net wrote tbone wrote good luck trying to feed and cloth a wife and kids in todays world at that salary. i hate to burst your bubble but that is far from a booming economy. bullshit i can name several mid western states where that is a good living for many people who probable have just as nice a home as you do and live just as comfortable as you do. yeah but can you find a job making $25000/yr there sure can just about any smaller city in id mt wy nd sd ne ks add ok ak tx mo id or wa ....... hell fact is you could add just about any state depending on location in that state. what about it mac could i live on $25000 a year out there in clovis or have you done let fresno over run you. jerry .

From : miles

roy wrote fine lets compare some more. that 2 bdr. apartment rent was 500 -800 a month. a house that now costs 350k could be bought for 125k. also most jobs came with medical benefits paid by the company with out a employee contribution. roy the median income reports are adjusted for inflation so that comparisons from year to year can be made. medical benifits are still the norm for the very same jobs as before. it is true though that lately some of the costs are being passed on to employees especially for dependent coverage. i am not sure how they figure that into the labor reports. i hope ya get yer idle fixed. taking it in tomorrow. dealer says a computer program change should fix it. hope so. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote actually jerry yes i can and it proves my point completely. $25000 doesnt buy shit today in all but the most remote areas. but in your so called booming 90s the median salary was lower than now and is adjusted for inflation. lol adjusted for inflation. what does that even mean the median salary is what it is regardless of inflation. since the value of my old house has tripled in the past 10 years unless the median salary was about 1/3 of what it is now iow $8333 we have gone down not up in our standard of living. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

gee let me take a wild guess ........ the cost of living is lower.....golly-golly tbone figured something out. lets get this straight ................. where i live someone making 20-$25000 a year can buy a home just as nice as tbones raise a family as easily as tbone have as many cars as tbone and maybe even have a boat out back but because the place tbone lives it costs so much more to buy these things this poor dope living in the lower cost of living area should have his taxes increased pay for raising the min. wage so the fat ass in tbones town that is to lazy or dumb to move can eat better. yeah sure im the one that needs to figure it out huh........ better start doing some real life guessing yourself. lol i guess that i missed this post although with road runners shit servers thats no surprise. how do you know what kind of house i have or how many cars i have besides the truck and the nissan or even how big my family is. you are making a lot of assumptions here bud. but even if this were all true you must live in an especially depressed area to do all that and a boat too for $25000 a year. and i bet fining a job that even pays $25000 a year where you live is difficult as well. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

jerry jlrice1655@earthlink.net wrote tbone wrote good luck trying to feed and cloth a wife and kids in todays world at that salary. i hate to burst your bubble but that is far from a booming economy. bullshit i can name several mid western states where that is a good living for many people who probable have just as nice a home as you do and live just as comfortable as you do. yeah but can you find a job making $25000/yr there my question exactly. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote iow if you are willing to live in a cultural vacuum you can survive on $25000. yea thats the american dreem. cultural vacuum you mean the american dream is to live in the big city no thanks. thats not my dream. .

From : milesh

tbone wrote ah now there is the real issue. like most of the extreem right wing you are scared of society and don;t want to take responsibility for your actions. now thats funny!! ya we wanna be like you and let the good ol government solve all our problems. lefties all want self responsibility thats a great friday joke and its not even friday. .

From : jerry

tbone wrote of course they dont mean anything to you because they were posted when you ask for them and if you accepted them for the fact they are you could not continue your bullshit spin. actually jerry yes i can and it proves my point completely. $25000 doesnt buy shit today in all but the most remote areas. oh bull shit how can you say something so dumb with a straight face. nobody is talking about living in a 3000 square foot home with a swimming pool. use some common sense. but better than that try clicking around on the median income of just about any hight tech job on this site and the numbers come out to at least twice that much. this indicates that the new great jobs that are being created are paying about 1/2 of what they used to but by the use of fuzzy right wing math and meaningless stats these new great jobs are well above the median salary. ok lucky us lol! so what ......... you want everyone making the exact same thing living in the exact same conditions and all having the exact same personal possessions. last country i know that tried that they all called each other comrade. could you raise a family and own or even rent an comfortable home in a safe neighborhood for $25000 absolutely. i could even buy a home with that salary. not in san francisco but certainly in other locations. get out and meet the real world sometime. ok jerry name some. the problem is that houses are cheep in certian areas for a reason. can you figure out why that is gee let me take a wild guess ........ the cost of living is lower.....golly-golly tbone figured something out. lets get this straight ................. where i live someone making 20-$25000 a year can buy a home just as nice as tbones raise a family as easily as tbone have as many cars as tbone and maybe even have a boat out back but because the place tbone lives it costs so much more to buy these things this poor dope living in the lower cost of living area should have his taxes increased pay for raising the min. wage so the fat ass in tbones town that is to lazy or dumb to move can eat better. yeah sure im the one that needs to figure it out huh........ better start doing some real life guessing yourself. then you were simply trying to live beyond your means in 1994 on $24000 a year or you were foolish enough to live somewhere where the salary didnt match your income..... i was living close to the end of my means just buying that house but it was worth it in the end. that still doesnt change the fact that in order to buy that house now you would need to make between $65000 to $75000 or have a lot of money in the bank and that is about 3 times the amount of this great median salary. more fuzzy bullshit. what it means is 10 years ago you were living at the limit of your means but it also means the median salary 10 years ago probable was 1/3 what it is now which prevented someone in the wage bracket from buying the house out from under you forcing you to buy a higher priced house. you see people like yourself very conveniently try to avoid factoring in all the figures when you throw out this crap. if you were making $25000 ten years ago then someone down the road from you was only making $15000............. all goes in a circle doesnt it tbone. bullshit i can name several mid western states where that is a good living for many people who probable have just as nice a home as you do and live just as comfortable as you do. while this may be true then why did you ask me to name them above if it is true ...... make up your mind. this median income is national duh ..........no shit. keep going youre starting to catch on now. so while you may be able to afford to buy such a house in the mid west could you easily find a job paying that much there absolutely ............ can you prove me wrong and what about the rest of us that live on the east or west coast. are we all to be herded into the mid west to leave the rest of it for the wealthy hell now ............ i like it just fine with you living in your high cost of living area. makes me smile more every time i pick up my check book. no i havent. a few people gave some specific thing that did nothing for me or many others for that matter. all i got back so far were environmental rollbacks and tax cuts that have raised my cost of living. really please explain how your cost of living was increased by tax cuts....... as for kerry i already said that i am unaware of any great accomplishments great accomplishments damn all i want to see is any repeat any accomplishment;. jerry .

From : transurgeon

gee let me take a wild guess ........ the cost of living is lower.....golly-golly tbone figured something out. lets get this straight ................. where i live someone making 20-$25000 a year can buy a home just as nice as tbones raise a family as easily as tbone have as many cars as tbone and maybe even have a boat out back but because the place tbone lives it costs so much more to buy these things this poor dope living in the lower cost of living area should have his taxes increased pay for raising the min. wage so the fat ass in tbones town that is to lazy or dumb to move can eat better. yeah sure im the one that needs to figure it out huh........ better start doing some real life guessing yourself. can we call this the t-boner manifesto for ease of reference in the future .

From : miles

tbone wrote actually jerry yes i can and it proves my point completely. $25000 doesnt buy shit today in all but the most remote areas. but in your so called booming 90s the median salary was lower than now and is adjusted for inflation. .

From : jerry

tbone wrote the top 5% as you call them also have 90% of the money. if you make the claim then you back it up. good idea ......... how about backing it up. jerry .

From : budd cochran

rotflmbo!!!! talk about being in denial!!!!! jeeze!!! you will never do anything but spin away from the fact that if you had not spoken up it would not have gone any farther. talk about being a coward troll-boy look in a mirror and see the real coward. budd and it still would have died for that matter if neither one of you reciprocated. sorry budd but you said it yourself it takes two and you are every bit as guilty as you accuse me of being. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving wrong miles just made a comment supported by the liberal media and you gave it your usual half-read knee jerk reaction. it would have died on the vine if youd kept your yap shut. budd iow i didnt start it miles did. thanks budd!!! -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving fyi i did a google search and found the start of the left / right flame war was your knee jerk reaction to a comment by milesh that kerry had supported president bush about iraq. i figured it had to be something like that. budd i dont remember does it really matter. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving hey tom who was it that brought politics into this joke thread anyway i missed it. budd .

From : tbone

ah yes again it was due to a server change or something like that. what do you want a blow-by-blow list of username changes complete with passwords that is a load of crap. why would a server change effect you user handle. you set that up yourself. dont forget i use lookout express too. dont know as much as you pretend tom. lol but still more than you with this. if one server doesnt release or drop a username which has happened to me then you cant take it to the next server or it comes up as in use when you do. thats why i changed from ctrekker to mr-d150. aol didnt get the name released and royal internet service couldnt accept it for that reason. you figure out why im not the computer expert. then it appears that they are possibly using the same servers or in the same ad group but that still has no meaning to this. your server login id has nothing to do with the handle that is displayed on the postings as my server login is not tbone. i could just as easily change my handle to your name and post as you. a quick look at the message properties would show that it is probably not you but not everyone bothers or even knows how to look there. just like you to nit-pick and attempt spins to cover your butt. how does this even make sense spin what to cover my butt how lol never mind. if you couldnt see what youve just done then no one could point it out to you. iow another accusation that you cannot justify. no you are just suffering from the possibility of someone that you dont like may actually know a few things that you dont. i dont know why it bothers you the way it does but it does. ok so prove you know some things i dont other than computers items about newer vehicles ford 9 rear ends god politics quantum mechanics evolution compressibilty of materials theory of relativity time travel science fiction fishing camping and hunting. gee are you saying that i know more about all of these things than you do you are way to kind. probably because you are just unaware of it or you have been lucky enough not to run across the wrong person. or possibly because the bad attitude im supposed to have is only in your mind tom. possibly but i doubt it. iow tom maybe you should realize your accusations are obvious vicious lying attempts to discredit me. why is it that every time someone points out one of you habits or faults it is discrediting you. you have no trouble doing it even if you have to fabricate it first. that someone has only been you tom. and you try to use them as weapons. others have teased me about my heart probs for example but only you have worded them into an assault. i dont tease you about your heart problems i take these things seriously. i tease you about your medications for these serious problems affecting you mentally. tom ive been trading punches with trolls like you correction better than you since practically my second night in the group. and if everybody in here knows it then they know you are just another troublemaker im having fun with. really then how many times did you leave the group before i got here. the sad thing is that this was never my intention but i wont put up with bs from others either just like you. yet were supposed to put up with your bs just because youve helped run off a couple trolls doesnt stop you from being one. the same can be said about you. you did admit to making a hobby about trolling me. now if you are claiming to be doing this to have fun with me then you have just admitted to being a troll. nope just a statement of fact that you will always tend to take anything i say and twist / spin / lie / re-write as required to turn every discussion we have into a testosterone contest. and that i enjoy playing with those pitiful attacks as youre only destroying your own credibilty. p.k.b. lol more semantics. but even with that i think that my 20 ton shop press can easily compress the body of the caliper never mind the piston. i would not reccomend trying it. neither would i and i have no intention of doing so but it still would. it isnt semantics. its using correct terminology. thermal expansion and contraction may have similar results but it is not a similar process to physical compression. but it does. if i fit a bearing or even a ring gear by heating up the ring and cooling down the diff when they return to the same temp it changes from thermal contraction to compression. i wouldnt talk budd. you and max are the kings of deletion. dont like it when it is done to you huh doesnt bother me as much as it does you. sure it does more so now since you are now the one making the accusations. unlike you apparently some of us worry about the accuracy of information. really like in your 9-11 thread lol i can just pictuire you as a kid lying on the floor kickin

From : budd cochran

tom your spin tactics prove you are the one with low self-esteem and unable to take responsibility . . .it also makes you the perfect puppet for the liberals. budd probably because you have so little that you feel the need to keep trying to prove it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving yeah most folks tell me i have too much. budd lol the only thing i deny is that you know anything at all. then you really need to work on that self confidence thing of yours. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

once again. you accuse me of your own faults. i dont have to run around screaming that you dont know anything because my self esteem is just fine and every time denny accuses me of copying shit out of a manual it just makes it stronger because i dont have to. you otoh are the perfect right wing puppet who lets them work you for the money while you thank them for it and are jealous of me because i dont. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tom your spin tactics prove you are the one with low self-esteem and unable to take responsibility . . .it also makes you the perfect puppet for the liberals. budd probably because you have so little that you feel the need to keep trying to prove it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving yeah most folks tell me i have too much. budd lol the only thing i deny is that you know anything at all. then you really need to work on that self confidence thing of yours. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

it is due to people like you that the rest of us pay 8+ dollars to see a movie and $100 and up to see a ball game. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving could it be that if the general public left those $8 movie seats and those $100 sports arena seats set empty for a year or so would somebody get a hint and lower the prices to me entertainment is not as important as a bag of groceries. denny .

From : tbone

how would you know it has yet to happen. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving whats the matter tom did we get it right you only whine like this when we do. budd no you love to play this innocent what are you talking about game. you live int he same world that i do sort of anyway. you know exactly what i am talking about. if you really dont tom then you have serious problems man. welcome to tommy-troll-boy world. gee now who is the troll that lives to attack others kissup. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

wayne wrote the throttle position sensor. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving did you check the tps what is tps i am taking it to a different dealer tomorrow to see if they can fix problem will post results on friday. hi didnt get truck back until late friday. this time they replaced the intake gasket and intake manifold gaskets!!!! cost lots of money 770.00 but they said that this would fix my problem. guess what problem is still there as bad as ever. i am fit to be tied dont know what my next move should be or will be. i think i am getting stroked by these dealers. any suggestions im afraid if i take it in again that they may paint it as it does have stone chips. hahah would be funny if it didnt cost so much. any advice would be appreciated. where the heck you at sounds like the dealers around here. im still leaning towards fuel pressure regulator. may have to lift the box to see if its a replaceable part of the fuel pump or not. haynes says it is. parts dealers say it might be but none of them are listing it as a replaceable part though. this dealer says they just replace the whole fuel pump. will let me know tues. if their parts manuals show it. how could a damned fuel pump be so mysterious i cant believe no one knows anything about them and is haynes wrong on the 97 there were two types used and one of them has a replaceable regulator/filter but i doubt that you would ever be able to find that part and they probably wouldnt be able to tell if you had that pump until they removed the pump anyway. when you then add in the labor cost to remove it from the pump and put on the new one the price would still be just about the same and you would still have an old pump. it is a safer bet to just replace the whole thing filters and all. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

its ok tom. once you get past the denial stage it will get better. budd how would you know it has yet to happen. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving whats the matter tom did we get it right you only whine like this when we do. budd no you love to play this innocent what are you talking about game. you live int he same world that i do sort of anyway. you know exactly what i am talking about. if you really dont tom then you have serious problems man. welcome to tommy-troll-boy world. gee now who is the troll that lives to attack others kissup. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

once again ill ask...how would you know you are still deep within yours. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving its ok tom. once you get past the denial stage it will get better. budd how would you know it has yet to happen. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving whats the matter tom did we get it right you only whine like this when we do. budd no you love to play this innocent what are you talking about game. you live int he same world that i do sort of anyway. you know exactly what i am talking about. if you really dont tom then you have serious problems man. welcome to tommy-troll-boy world. gee now who is the troll that lives to attack others kissup. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

this is why i question the requirement. it seems to be written in such a way as to make any vehicle severe duty. thus making it very easy for dc to blame me if i have a problem related to oil. paranoid gary i just double checked the manual for the correct wording and it says most vehicles fit in the severe duty category. it also gives a list of conditions which if any fit your driving style puts you in this category. one item is frequent trips under 10 miles. since i drive 5 miles to and from work i would have to say that i fit into that category. stop and go traffic conditions also put you in this category. so does extended freeway driving. as you can see there is a method to my madness. i hope this clears things up for you jam. .

From : tbone

lol the only thing i deny is that you know anything at all. then you really need to work on that self confidence thing of yours. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

i didnt start the political crap in this thread i simply responded to yours. any way that you spin it it was still you regardless of what budd hoped for. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving and the left spins again as their only defense. tbone wrote iow i didnt start it miles did. thanks budd!!! .

From : budd cochran

lol the only thing i deny is that you know anything at all. but since you keep proving that i dont have to. budd once again ill ask...how would you know you are still deep within yours. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving its ok tom. once you get past the denial stage it will get better. budd how would you know it has yet to happen. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving whats the matter tom did we get it right you only whine like this when we do. budd no you love to play this innocent what are you talking about game. you live int he same world that i do sort of anyway. you know exactly what i am talking about. if you really dont tom then you have serious problems man. welcome to tommy-troll-boy world. gee now who is the troll that lives to attack others kissup. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

the information is not at issue here. i only call to ground the attacks. everyone says they should stop and in the next message they fire off another round. all information i find in these groups i take as advisory information.. and yes ive solved a couple problems with my vehicles 2k durango and 97 jeep tj without even posting. as far as dangerous information what is the definition to a person whos never worked on a car before and is unaware of the voltages and amperages involved pulling off a plug wire while the car is running could be a death sentence ive been hit with that shock before. to an experienced mechanic its no big whoop. the wrong information in the right hands can kill just as the right information in the wrong hands can fix. then you feel misinformation or dangerous information is acceptable not flaming just curious about your justification for it. budd .

From : budd cochran

fyi i did a google search and found the start of the left / right flame war was your knee jerk reaction to a comment by milesh that kerry had supported president bush about iraq. i figured it had to be something like that. budd i dont remember does it really matter. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving hey tom who was it that brought politics into this joke thread anyway i missed it. budd .

From : tbone

iow i didnt start it miles did. thanks budd!!! -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving fyi i did a google search and found the start of the left / right flame war was your knee jerk reaction to a comment by milesh that kerry had supported president bush about iraq. i figured it had to be something like that. budd i dont remember does it really matter. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving hey tom who was it that brought politics into this joke thread anyway i missed it. budd .

From : milesh

and the left spins again as their only defense. tbone wrote iow i didnt start it miles did. thanks budd!!! .

From : budd cochran

then you feel misinformation or dangerous information is acceptable not flaming just curious about your justification for it. budd tbone i would point out that although the first attack was not yours. you seem to take a childish glee and derive some satisfaction in perpetuating it. be like 99 percent of the people on this and other groups sit back and learn. by perpetuating the attacks you prove you are no better than the attacker. and from what ive read in this nauseating thread youre worse because you have to take everything personally. now as you read this you see it as an attack against you and have already started formulating your scathing reply. be a man swallow your pride and let it slide. if you cant do that go get some counseling you and others in here need it... yes he did. he supported the point that i made to denny and tom l. about how this childish infighting and attacks which are usually started by you and shade tree are causing people to go elsewhere to both get and give information. are you proud of your accomplishments -- .

From : tbone

nope you got that wrong as well. i never left just changed my handle. byw so did you for a while. server changed due to the move the spam problem and i dropped the ctrekker name when i closed my last business. but you also used d-150 or something like that for a while. ah yes again it was due to a server change or something like that. what do you want a blow-by-blow list of username changes complete with passwords that is a load of crap. why would a server change effect you user handle. you set that up yourself. dont forget i use lookout express too. just like you to nit-pick and attempt spins to cover your butt. how does this even make sense spin what to cover my butt how however i always with a few teasing exceptions sign budd or charles btw why do you continue to use a screen name everyone knows you by your poor reputation as a troll if not by your name already. i really dont care who knows me. as for being a troll you and shade tree fit that title much better than i ever did. no its you tom. youre mr misinformation. only in your desperate little mind. from what im seeing in other threads im not the one suffering from delusions of mechanical ability. no you are just suffering from the possibility of someone that you dont like may actually know a few things that you dont. i dont know why it bothers you the way it does but it does. and if anyone doesnt know your name they only need to email someone that knows. my name is not important but like what happened to steve some asshole hijacked my name and began posting crap in other groups as me. i really dont care if they do that with this handle but my actual name is something else. with the way you tend to treat people you might want to consider this point yourself. really funny im not scared of that identity theft like big brave you. by being the same person on screen as in person then if anyone does screw with my identity its obvious. lol not when they are using it in ngs that you are not a part of. i still find it interesting that over the years this bad attitude you accuse me of having the poor info you accuse me of giving has never resulted in a identity theft or even a mailbox bombing or stray bullets cruising past my ear or nuke weapons being delivered to my home anonymously by ups or . . . . . . . probably because you are just unaware of it or you have been lucky enough not to run across the wrong person. iow tom maybe you should realize your accusations are obvious vicious lying attempts to discredit me. why is it that every time someone points out one of you habits or faults it is discrediting you. you have no trouble doing it even if you have to fabricate it first. tom ive never denied any responsibility but you have repeatedly denied and spun so many things you sound like kerrys voting record. sure you have every chance that you get. there you go confusing your actions with those of others again . .. . really lets see. what thread have i jumped into of yours spouting the crap that you do now you otoh have done it multiple times like in the brake caliper thread where of course you were wrong but even if i was who was it hurting oh thats right nobody but you troll boy. oh i admit i jump in your threads but only when you are spouting one form or another of you misinformation or for now political propaganda. that is just an excuse and everyone in here knows it. tom ive been trading punches with trolls like you correction better than you since practically my second night in the group. and if everybody in here knows it then they know you are just another troublemaker im having fun with. really then how many times did you leave the group before i got here. the sad thing is that this was never my intention but i wont put up with bs from others either just like you. now if you are claiming to be doing this to have fun with me then you have just admitted to being a troll. the second is because in effect youre probably like an peta volunteer speaking at an hunting club and the first because info in the group should be accurate and not local slang or outright wrong because you dont know your butt from a hole in the ground. you really need to sure up that confidence of yours budd. if i did id be unable to converse with low-lifes like yourself. how generous of me right actually quite the opposit. now do you wish to admit having caused trouble in the group on purpose that youve rarely been able to help with mechanical questions and that youre a complete loser awe did i hurt your widdle feeewings there boo boo - such hatred and anger compounded by spin and lies. you will be saying hell marys for this for the rest of your life. as for causing trouble on purpose that would be you as is evident in the bra

From : tbone

probably because you have so little that you feel the need to keep trying to prove it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving yeah most folks tell me i have too much. budd lol the only thing i deny is that you know anything at all. then you really need to work on that self confidence thing of yours. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

thats right it does take two which makes both you and miles every bit as bad as i am. but that still doesnt change the facts. i didnt start the political stuff in here any way you try and spin it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tom it takes two to start a flame war and you couldnt resist the temptation. budd i didnt start the political crap in this thread i simply responded to yours. any way that you spin it it was still you regardless of what budd hoped for. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving and the left spins again as their only defense. tbone wrote iow i didnt start it miles did. thanks budd!!! .

From : tbone

and it still would have died for that matter if neither one of you reciprocated. sorry budd but you said it yourself it takes two and you are every bit as guilty as you accuse me of being. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving wrong miles just made a comment supported by the liberal media and you gave it your usual half-read knee jerk reaction. it would have died on the vine if youd kept your yap shut. budd iow i didnt start it miles did. thanks budd!!! -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving fyi i did a google search and found the start of the left / right flame war was your knee jerk reaction to a comment by milesh that kerry had supported president bush about iraq. i figured it had to be something like that. budd i dont remember does it really matter. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving hey tom who was it that brought politics into this joke thread anyway i missed it. budd .

From : budd cochran

wrong miles just made a comment supported by the liberal media and you gave it your usual half-read knee jerk reaction. it would have died on the vine if youd kept your yap shut. budd iow i didnt start it miles did. thanks budd!!! -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving fyi i did a google search and found the start of the left / right flame war was your knee jerk reaction to a comment by milesh that kerry had supported president bush about iraq. i figured it had to be something like that. budd i dont remember does it really matter. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving hey tom who was it that brought politics into this joke thread anyway i missed it. budd .

From : budd cochran

tom it takes two to start a flame war and you couldnt resist the temptation. budd i didnt start the political crap in this thread i simply responded to yours. any way that you spin it it was still you regardless of what budd hoped for. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving and the left spins again as their only defense. tbone wrote iow i didnt start it miles did. thanks budd!!! .

From : budd cochran

yeah most folks tell me i have too much. budd lol the only thing i deny is that you know anything at all. then you really need to work on that self confidence thing of yours. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : roy

and this coming from the moron that thinks the master cylinder reservoir cover actually holds the pressure. now unless you can specifically state exactly where i was wrong in anything that i said i suggest you gfy again. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving lol. yea like your unplugging the non existing vacuum line to look for gas was any better. at least what i said would diagnose a failed regulator or leaking injector. yours would do neither since that vehicle doesnt another cluster fuck by da boner showing everyone how his lard ass cant cash the checks his alligator mouth writes what you said was so fucking stupid and worthless you should be embarrassed cant even figure out how to knock the metal tabs out of the rear brake backing plates and now youre the mr wizard of troubleshooting efi systems better spin that lardass your mouth keeps digging you deeper and deeper .

From : roy

tbone i would point out that although the first attack was not yours. you seem to take a childish glee and derive some satisfaction in perpetuating it. be like 99 percent of the people on this and other groups sit back and learn. by perpetuating the attacks you prove you are no better than the attacker. and from what ive read in this nauseating thread youre worse because you have to take everything personally. now as you read this you see it as an attack against you and have already started formulating your scathing reply. be a man swallow your pride and let it slide. if you cant do that go get some counseling you and others in here need it... yes he did. he supported the point that i made to denny and tom l. about how this childish infighting and attacks which are usually started by you and shade tree are causing people to go elsewhere to both get and give information. are you proud of your accomplishments -- .

From : budd cochran

once again. you accuse me of your own faults. i dont have to run around screaming that you dont know anything because my self esteem is just fine and every time denny accuses me of copying shit out of a manual it just makes it stronger because i dont have to. you otoh are the perfect right wing puppet who lets them work you for the money while you thank them for it and are jealous of me because i dont. well gee tom. recent posts by others in the group in other threads repeat that according to them im much better a mechanic than you. as for politics from what ive observed and from what ive seen in a few posts your political affiliation is in severe minority here. a lone mouse in a room full of cats as it were. it doesnt help that you are so committed to that agenda that you might need to be committed. the points being you according to several people and not just myself should keep quiet both mechanically and politically. take the hint from them if not from me gary or miles. guess i dont need to say anything more do i yup the thread seems to be about dead. discussing politics and religion are usually futile on this ng. but my idiot is still better than your idiot. gbmfg roy budd .

From : budd cochran

small block chevy lashed to the back as well. but i wouldnt want expose the chevy or the scooter to contamination. thanks for looking out for the chevy small block! gbfg roy budd .

From : tbone

rotflmbo!!!! talk about being in denial!!!!! jeeze!!! you will never do anything but spin away from the fact that if you had not spoken up it would not have gone any farther. sorry budd but if miles didnt start it with his typical comments there would have been no reason for me to speak up and if you would have minded you own business for a change and had not spoken up you would not be part of it either. can you not see that you are every bit as much to blame as i am and if not wtf are you doing posting in this thread. i know you are just going to spin it into youre just trying to correct my misinformation but in reality you just cant resist troll boy. either way no matter how much of a troll that you accuse me of being it still would not have gone any further if you minded you own business and miles just ignored me. care to try again talk about being a coward troll-boy look in a mirror and see the real coward. all i need to do to see the real coward is to look at the one sitting on that poor cushman. i doubt that it was ever rated for that type of load capacity. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : jerry

thank you tom. i try my best. what t-bone has yet to learn is that persons that have been acquainted for years as we have can be a little rougher without causing an offence. its called friendship. budd yea sure you are. sorry budd but you actions since you came back show a very different picture. at least this time you are trying to help a few people. lets see how long that lasts. sorry for the double-post - but i didnt catch this part the first time around. tom - ive been in this group for about 8 years now... budds been here longer than that. the amount of assistance knowledge and advice hes dispensed throughout those years pales in comparison to anything youve done to date - i can assure you of that. you have absolutely no ground to stand on when it comes to questioning the contributions budd has made to this group over the years... none. as someone with one of the lowest signal-to-noise ratios here it would be in your best interests to leave this particular argument alone. you dont want to compare your posting record to budds.... it wouldnt even be close. .

From : jerry

roy wrote miles according to the military the guy who authored the book and claimed there was no hostile fire at the time is incorrect. the authors citation mentions action while under small arms fire. as does kerrys. they were both awarded medals for their action during the same fire fight. now it would seem either the author did what he claims kerry did or hes not telling the truth in his book. cant really have it both ways. problem is roy the author of the book did not write the citation or have any input into it. john kerry filed the after action report saying there was enemy fire that day despite three of his crew members and the other five boats saying there was none. as you well know citations were often just handed to you in the field. that is the case here and after he read the citation which was given to him long after kerry had left he simply put it away saying the hell with it. you can believe that or not but so far kerry only has one other crew member stating they actually received enemy fire. thats 15 to 2 of the 17 members interviewed that were there during this action. want something to chew on think about this. kerry was the only boat commander out of five boats that night to even file a after action report. seems the other four didnt think much of the events as being out of the ordinary. here is something to give you pause about. this is a 75-yard-wide river. first of all there were only 2 miles of river between the place they were at and the gulf. but beyond that had that sort of volume of fire actually occurred these boats and the people on them would have been riddled. there was not one bullet hole in one of the boats. there was not one guy wounded except for john kerrys bottom wound and the guys that were hurt being blown off the 3 boat by the mine. the above is from a interview with human events editors with john oneill. as paul harvey says there is always a rest of the story. jerry .

From : roy

roy wrote miles according to the military the guy who authored the book and claimed there was no hostile fire at the time is incorrect. the authors citation mentions action while under small arms fire. as does kerrys. they were both awarded medals for their action during the same fire fight. now it would seem either the author did what he claims kerry did or hes not telling the truth in his book. cant really have it both ways. problem is roy the author of the book did not write the citation or have any input into it. john kerry filed the after action report saying there was enemy fire that day despite three of his crew members and the other five boats saying there was none. as you well know citations were often just handed to you in the field. no i wasnt aware they were handed out in the field. i was of the belief that they had to be corroborated and reviewed. that is the case here and after he read the citation which was given to him long after kerry had left he simply put it away saying the hell with it. you can believe that or not but so far kerry only has one other crew member stating they actually received enemy fire. thats 15 to 2 of the 17 members interviewed that were there during this action. want something to chew on think about this. kerry was the only boat commander out of five boats that night to even file a after action report. seems the other four didnt think much of the events as being out of the ordinary. so kerry put the author in for his medal. so to go a step further if the author is to be believed he knew that his medal was bullshit too. but accepted it anyway. pkb again you cant have it both ways. here is something to give you pause about. this is a 75-yard-wide river. first of all there were only 2 miles of river between the place they were at and the gulf. but beyond that had that sort of volume of fire actually occurred these boats and the people on them would have been riddled. there was not one bullet hole in one of the boats. there was not one guy wounded except for john kerrys bottom wound and the guys that were hurt being blown off the 3 boat by the mine. the above is from a interview with human events editors with john oneill. as paul harvey says there is always a rest of the story. jerry dont you think it is a bit questionable that this truth group is funded by one of your idiots close buddies i believe it was two checks for 100k each. hell your idiots people did a smear deal on john mccain a few years ago. seems to be a pattern here. as i said before at least my idiot can form a sentence.g roy .

From : jerry

roy wrote no i wasnt aware they were handed out in the field. i was of the belief that they had to be corroborated and reviewed. guess i wasnt very clear. what i meant to say the awards were not always given at an awards ceremony as usually the case in peace time. sometimes and often during those periods they were simply handed to you in the field with a here ya go buds of course they are reviewed but as for corroboration well in this case kerry was the senior person on his boat and he is the one that submitted the the only after action report so he is the only one to do any corroboration to his seniors. so kerry put the author in for his medal. i dont know who actually put the author in for a citation. so to go a step further if the author is to be believed he knew that his medal was bullshit too. but accepted it anyway. pkb yep that is exactly what he did but as he puts it he received the citation and medal long after the incident read it said what the hell stuffed it away and went on about his business. dont you think it is a bit questionable that this truth group is funded by one of your idiots close buddies i believe it was two checks for 100k each. hell your idiots people did a smear deal on john mccain a few years ago. seems to be a pattern here. questionable i dont really think so considering the move on group behind kerry has spent 60 million so far in negative adds against bush. thats $60000000 to $200000 and $12000000 of that came from one guy. now there is a place to raise questions. btw it is more than one person that has contributed the $200000 to the swiftboat group and as for mccain as is with this group that also was a private group. i hear on the the dimwits want to go to court to stop the sell of unfit for command ban books stop people from expressing their opinion .................... seems i recall someone in germany doing that once. as i said before at least my idiot can form a sentence.g he may be able to do that but he certainly cant lead a country and it is fact he cant tell the truth. bfg jerry .

From : tbone

you grow up tom. youre the one that doesnt know the truth about big business about automechanics and lord knows what else. and yet im able to prove you wrong time and time again on both issues. youre the one that resorts to name calling everytime an argument goes against you lol perhaps you should reread this thread and see who has been doing most of the name calling. maybe you should include your derogatory comments when you make that total just because you take it that way doesnt make it so. perhaps you should stop bragging about how much you know and then list your failures disproving that knowledge in the same thread. i did list my business failures but not the reasons for the failures. in one my supplier couldnt keep up with my orders. in the other i lacked the woodworking equipment to fill my orders from the customer a simple case of demand being far above expectations or projections. unlike your derogatory assumptions i assumed that with the availability of modern electronic toys there wouldnt be much demand for wooden imagination powered toys. sorry but neither failure provides the proof you seek to defame me. defame you lol get a grip dude. actually both of these failures are completely your fault and show both bad planning and a lack of research and show that like many including myself you are not the all knowing master of buisness you claim to be. and youre the one that makes such rediculous assumptions about people just because you say it doesnt make it so. all i did was echo back what you said to me no assumptions needed. all i did was state personal history you made it derogatory. i did no such thing but because you would and have every chance you get i could possibly see why you would think that of others. by throwing back in my face in wording suggesting i was wholly to blame for my family being on welfare you did insult me. lol i did no such thing actually i did quite the opposit. i assumed that you would be one of the least likely to be on welfare and the fact that you were is proof positive that the short sighted extreemly right wing ideas that you happen to believe in or were brainwashed into believing are aload of shit and dont work in the real world. in that economic region at that time i would have worked in any job at any pay to have stayed off the dole something you have stated you are unwilling to do. ad yet you wound up there anyway which is proof positive that it take more than just the willingness to work as the right wing claims. the fact that you were willing to do it for any price makes you the perfect right wing puppet. not to mention these insane arguments you keep starting losing and never realizing how stupid it makes you look. they are only insane to those with closed minds and brainwashed fools like you. what is insane is arguing with a child because there is no way to win or even get a point across and that is exactly what im doing now with you. you really do have the mind of a jealous and stubborn child and will only see what you want to see and to continue this is a waste of time. agreed you are a waste of time. but i do try to help the disadvantaged. and it is a good thing that you are willing to help yourself. might as well you arent worth it. oh gee im hurt so bad i think that im going to....... lol! -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

any way you look at it since bills have to be paid who better to pay them than the ones who take the most and can most afford it. so by people being wealthy whatever that is or means they take the most wtf is it that they take the most of money you dumb phuck. i guess the poor and illegal aliens by flooding our healthcare system and our welfare system they arent taking anything according to you lol. and our current pinhead of a president wants to make them all legal. why is that perhaps for votes and more bs job creation numbers at minimum wage. to stop this requires hiring more people and increasing patrols and that equates to more money and a bigger government. now what party is against thaose two things i guess according to da boner those are entitlements since they are poor and being poor is a permanent thing never to be risen above. sorry redrag but no dice. since they are not even citizens they should be entitled to nothing and iirc those are state laws that are being abused. people are predestined to stay that way never mind all the billions of dollars poured into social programs since 1965 to supposedly help them out of poverty yet more idiotic reasoning. never mind that under the current income tax system they arent paying any income taxes perhaps because they dont have enough money to buy food and your buddy budd was there himself. but are receiving the disportionate amount of benefits lol yea talk to budd about that. boner your logic is truly fucking amazing and truly fucking stupid and yet far more intelligent that yours. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

again you make erroneous assumptions. at least your consistent . . .. sorry budd but this is from your own words and pictures that you posted in the group. then you still made assumptions as you have never met me personally. i am simply repeating what you told me. how is that assuming if you were repeating it would not have been insulting nor an assumption. you have constantly made assumptions about many in this group more about me than you have about most of the others. i guess this is because i find it difficult to stand by while you spout your propaganda and misinformation. then let me make an assumption about you based on what ive read about you in the group oh boy here comes the childish tantrum again. defiinition of budd - a whiney little troll of an nincompoop without the intestinal fortitude to debate in an intelligent manner unwilling to learn about the subject at hand when mechanics are being discussed laqcking the elemental education to understand basic concepts needed for happiness unwilling to to allow another to be content in a lifestyle that pleases them because you are not happy with yours incapable of unselfish thought or action rude to everyone you fear might be a threat to your fragile egotism resorting to spin deceptions lies assumptions and outright viciousness in you percieve a need to save face resulting in huge amounts of hilarity for observants of your pathetic representation in the group and extreme volumes of discouragement for those that would waste time trying to help you see how incredibly idiotic moronic pathetic insensitive hypocritical devious and uneducatable you are. lol. i have to admit im glad that you are back. nobody else in here can make me laugh like you do. darn. i keep forgetting that you lack the mental capacity to write an original response that you can only mutilate and copy what was written about you. its the ng equivalent of same back at you only double. i didnt have to here your rant was a perfect self description. if you were to look back in the history of this group who was the one who attacks the most newbies. answer you. just about everything that you accuse me of you do yourelf. and usually far more than i do. oh well it just continues to show how childish and pathetic you really are once again budd go back and look at who does the most name calling and outright unprovoked attacks on others. . . . i am happy with my financial position. then i am happy for you. this was never intended as an insult. liar. lol this is exactly why you get attacked by people the way that you do. even when i try to be nice and explain myself this childish response is all i get. many of us are still waiting for you to learn basic engine theory not to mention just growing up and stop being a troll. sure budd but if that is true how come the last three arguments we had on engines i was right and you were wrong. proof fair enough. 1. someone asked how to get their ram into low range without engaging the front axle. i said to simply disconnect the vacuum connector from the front axle. you jumped in screaming that it could destroy the truck blow up the engine get himself killed which was all complete bs. tom l. even popped in and said that this was the way to do it but i should have mentioned to plug the vacuum lines and he was correct. i assumed that anyone disconnecting a vacuum line would automatically plug it up but even if they didnt none of the things that you said would even remotely happen and these lines do get pulled and fall off and there are no reports of vehicle explosions due to it in existence. 2. during the bs tornado discussion you came up with the ingenious idea that the intake and exhaust gasses are moving at the same speed and volume. you based this on some previous discussion that you had with either denny or mac that i dont ever remember seeing. unless your engine is doing nothing more than a compressor would do this is impossible. need i say more 3. a newbie came in here describing a problem with their engine. it would run for a short period of time and then just die and would not restart until it cooled off. he did say that he replaced the ignition controller and the coil. you came up with the idea of carbon locked rings and added symptoms that he never mentioned as the reason for your diagnosis. he later denied that the symptoms you invented were occurring and i said that it is more likely the fuel system vapor lock or ignition and the only reason that i mentioned the fuel system is that he had already replaced most of the ignition. i suggested that he replace the pickup before tearing down the engine like you suggested and as usual you turned it into another pissing match. he backed out of the thread smart man but did reply later that he swapped out the

From : tbone

tbone wrote that would only make sense if i was somehow getting that money but since i dont its just more of your spin. then it does make sense since you as part of society are getting it. well then to carry your logic to its conclusion since the rich are also part of society they are also getting it back so what is your problem they also have a huge disproportionate of the money as well. the top 5% have 90% of the money. any way you look at it since bills have to be paid who better to pay them than the ones who take the most and can most afford it. i see so tax them higher and higher until it is clear they can afford no more then call that amount fair. lol like that has ever or would ever happen. just more half witted right wing fear tactics. if thats not what you mean then by all means please tell us what is fair. i know youll wiggle out and avoid answering as usual. pretty much like you do on most of the question asked of you. you just do the typical right wing thing of deleting them and then pretending that they were never asked. because the national dept is growing and so are their bank accounts and thanks to bush it is going from one to the other. then if you can quantify it in that regard then you must be able to give us a figure that is enough fair and not too much. sure back to where clinton had them to begin with. we were paying down the dept and nobody was going broke or having to downgrade their standard of living. if you cant because as you say there are too many variables then you cant say that someone isnt already paying enough. i think that i just did. are you really this stupid i never said that there should be limits or caps and i think that you know that. you most certainly did say just that as below. please feel free to state your true feelings on each idea. 1 you feel anyone who is wealthy is not paying their fair share. i said no such thing. what i said is because the have more they can afford to pay more but that only depends on what is needed. 2 you refuse to state what that fair share should be. because that varies with the economic conditions at the time. 3 you have stated that as long as the gov. needs more money and the wealthy have it then they need to pay more to fund it. yep they take the most from society so they should be willing to give the most. i know this goes against you double standard but lifes tuff. 4 the only thing setting a limit would be the wealthy no longer having money left to pay. that sadly goes for everyone not just the rich. you just feel the need to keep spinning to try and hide the truth about the greed of most of the upper classes in your warped mind anyone wealthy must be greedy or they wouldnt be wealthy. then please explin clearly how that is not the case and please dont use your lame justification about investment. once the investment pays itself back it is no longer valid. ill wait for a valid responce but actually expect it to be deleted. so in your warped perfect world there can be no wealthy individuals. in a perfect world probably not at least not to the level and limited numbers that currently exist. thats not what i said or want either. ya it is. you have stated that if the wealthy were not greedy then they would not be wealthy. if they were not then they would either use that money to pay their workers more and or charge their customers a little less. both of these situations would spur growth in the economy and be better for everyone. but because of greed regardless of how you justify it they instead hord the money and limit what both the employees and customers can buy. no lets see your spin. that means redistribution of wealth to equalize things. lol not hardly. you do not wish to admit it because its not pc to do so but your logic is partly communist in nature. lol yet another justification for your greed and completely full of shit. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote honest employers that pay a fair and living wage. who defines that i did move. you choose poorly then. spin it any way that you want to miles but we are still down about 1000000 jobs so all of these people are not doing just fine. ya kerry gave a speach yesterday in nj talking about how he will solve the horrible employment troubles and high unemployment in the state. well today nj released its employment reports. lowest unemployment in 4 years. well below the national average. of course!! everybody moved the hell out! bfg sorry but i had to. lol thats ok because you are more correct than you think. im sure youll spin it to suit your needs but njs employment and economic report shows things to be far better than kerry stated in his speach. he should do a bit of research before opening his mouth. he isnt the only one. the again at least he can form a sentence. which shows the real intelligence of the only one for the job. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote honest employers that pay a fair and living wage. who defines that now who but what and that would be the cost of living in whatever area the employers are in. i did move. you choose poorly then. please explain. spin it any way that you want to miles but we are still down about 1000000 jobs so all of these people are not doing just fine. ya kerry gave a speach yesterday in nj talking about how he will solve the horrible employment troubles and high unemployment in the state. the state does have serious problems and i know i lived there and still own a house there. what about you well today nj released its employment reports. lowest unemployment in 4 years. well below the national average. lol gee this couldnt be politically motivated now could it perhaps they are using the same error in the reporting system that the national report used to make the numbers look better than they really are. im sure youll spin it to suit your needs but njs employment and economic report shows things to be far better than kerry stated in his speach. it is not spin it is fact. we are still down over 1 million jobs. how can it really be all that good and the answer is that it cant. government reports and reality have little to do with each other. funny how those same government reports stated that ground zero was safe and now so many of the workers are sick and dying. he should do a bit of research before opening his mouth. as usual you see only what you want to see reality be dammed. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : transurgeon

btw you also missed where i attacked to shut a troll up then reasoned with him and then helped him become a contributing member of the group. his screen name was f-350. whatever happened to bob .

From : budd cochran

you grow up tom. youre the one that doesnt know the truth about big business about automechanics and lord knows what else. and yet im able to prove you wrong time and time again on both issues. youre the one that resorts to name calling everytime anargument goes against you lol perhaps you should reread this thread and see who has been doing most of the name calling. maybe you should include your derogatory comments when you make that total just because you take it that way doesnt make it so. perhaps you should stop bragging about how much you know and then list your failures disproving that knowledge in the same thread. i did list my business failures but not the reasons for the failures. in one my supplier couldnt keep up with my orders. in the other i lacked the woodworking equipment to fill my orders from the customer a simple case of demand being far above expectations or projections. unlike your derogatory assumptions i assumed that with the availability of modern electronic toys there wouldnt be much demand for wooden imagination powered toys. sorry but neither failure provides the proof you seek to defame me. defame you lol get a grip dude. actually both of these failures are completely your fault and show both bad planning and a lack of research and show that like many including myself you are not the all knowing master of buisness you claim to be. lol you are truly a business novice. youve never heard of the demand going far beyond market test results have you or test market test rusults not including half a state when the planned market was to be one small city in the first case the tests showed a potential for sales volume of only about $5k / mo. when it went over $10k my supplier couldnt meet the demand. iow it wasnt my fault. in the second case i planned for homemade wooden toys to be sold locally and while that lasted no probs. had about $4k in sales /mo. when relaitives from across the state of my local customers started ordering i was caught without the tooling and equipment. i guess it would be my fault if you call using my profits to live on my fault since i didnt plan on expanding any. it was to be part time only tom. so you are at fault for saying it was my fault. and youre the one that makes such rediculous assumptions about people just because you say it doesnt make it so. all i did was echo back what you said to me no assumptions needed. all i did was state personal history you made it derogatory. i did no such thing but because you would and have every chance you get i could possibly see why you would think that of others. by throwing back in my face in wording suggesting i was wholly to blame for my family being on welfare you did insult me. lol i did no such thing actually i did quite the opposit. i assumed that you would be one of the least likely to be on welfare and the fact that you were is proof positive that the short sighted extreemly right wing ideas that you happen to believe in or were brainwashed into believing are a load of shit and dont work in the real world. rotflmbo. tommy boy you are so freaking dense. you are a total clown. what does it take to get it thru your thick liberal skull that local unemployment at the time was in double digit percentages there were no freaking jobs of any kind. i spent 4-6 hours a day looking for jobs door-to-door walking when i had no gasoline. there were no jobs!!!!!!! in that economic region at that time i would have worked in any job at any pay to have stayed off the dole something you have stated you are unwilling to do. ad yet you wound up there anyway which is proof positive that it take more than just the willingness to work as the right wing claims. the fact that you were willing to do it for any price makes you the perfect right wing puppet. you freaking idiot!!!! and your demands for a certain wage prove you to be a greedy ass. there were no jobs!!!! you are so stupid. you cant understand plain english or are so brainwashed by the liberals to where you accept only what they tell you is true. not to mention these insane arguments you keep starting losing and never realizing how stupid it makes you look. they are only insane to those with closed minds and brainwashed fools like you. what is insane is arguing with a child because there is no way to win or even get a point across and that is exactly what im doing now with you. you really do have the mind of a jealous and stubborn child and will only see what you want to see and to continue this is a waste of time. agreed you are a waste of time. but i do try to help the disadvantaged. and it is a good thing that you are willing to help yourself. might as well you arent worth it. oh gee im hurt so bad i think that im going to....... lol! think on this if you dare

From : budd cochran

i didnt have to here your rant was a perfect self description. if you were to look back in the history of this group who was the one who attacks the most newbies. answer you. just about everything that you accuse me of you do yourelf. and usually far more than i do. and if youd look a bit closer youd find the ones that caught the most flack were trolls just like you. btw you also missed where i attacked to shut a troll up then reasoned with him and then helped him become a contributing member of the group. his screen name was f-350. oh well it just continues to show how childish and pathetic you really are once again budd go back and look at who does the most name calling and outright unprovoked attacks on others. why that would be you with your profanity and profane names like fucker asshole and the like. notice i only quoted them. fair enough. 1. someone asked how to get their ram into low range without engaging the front axle. i said to simply disconnect the vacuum connector from the front axle. you jumped in screaming that it could destroy the truck blow up the engine get himself killed which was all complete bs. tom l. even popped in and said that this was the way to do it but i should have mentioned to plug the vacuum lines and he was correct. i assumed that anyone disconnecting a vacuum line would automatically plug it up but even if they didnt none of the things that you said would even remotely happen and these lines do get pulled and fall off and there are no reports of vehicle explosions due to it in existence. iirc i have often admitted i am not expert on newer trucks but i was right that if the vacuum line was left open it could and would cause damage and be possibly dangerous to operate vacuum power brakes need vacuum ya know strike one. 2. during the bs tornado discussion you came up with the ingenious idea that the intake and exhaust gasses are moving at the same speed and volume. you based this on some previous discussion that you had with either denny or mac that i dont ever remember seeing. unless your engine is doing nothing more than a compressor would do this is impossible. need i say more yes try the truth. i never said they were moving at the same speed. i did calculate some intake flow speeds that you could not grasp with your limited and defective math education. btw it was max340 iirc. strike two. 3. a newbie came in here describing a problem with their engine. it would run for a short period of time and then just die and would not restart until it cooled off. he did say that he replaced the ignition controller and the coil. you came up with the idea of carbon locked rings and added symptoms that he never mentioned as the reason for your diagnosis. he later denied that the symptoms you invented were occurring and i said that it is more likely the fuel system vapor lock or ignition and the only reason that i mentioned the fuel system is that he had already replaced most of the ignition. i suggested that he replace the pickup before tearing down the engine like you suggested and as usual you turned it into another pissing match. he backed out of the thread smart man but did reply later that he swapped out the distributor for another that he had and the problem disappeared. unless replacing the distributor can somehow free up carbon locked rings .... i admitted the error which you conveniently overlooked as it would prove you to be what you are a lying troll. the only reason it degraded into a pissing match was because you began one of your vicious name calling attacks instead of talking reasonably a characteristic you have often shown you lack. btw his symptoms of dying when hot and no restart did match what my truck was doing before the overhaul. as a normal part of the repairs i disassembled cleaned repaired and lubed my distributor which did have sticky advance weights. its a common part of rebuilding an engine so i may have forgotton to mention that part of the rebuild. strike three. youre out. budd .

From : transurgeon

tbone wrote lol perhaps because times are different now and because the right is making a big deal out of it. to bad your man doesnt have any. the right is a puny little ad that was run on only 3 public tv stations and a few cable stations has caused more talk than the multi-million $ ads bashing bush. perhaps because this single add is questioning the mans honor something our current president should be careful of doing and it made the national circuit. quite the leap there from this single add is questioning the mans honor to something our current president should be careful of doing you want to explain the connection between the two or are you doing your usually throw bullshit and run thing .

From : milesh

tbone wrote of course if the republicans are in charge in a particular town they will just re-asses the property value and then claim that they did not raise taxes lol. and there is the key if they dont reappraise the more valuable homes the taxes dont go up unless they raise the rate. ah but in most of the country they most certainly have given new appraised values for the more valuable homes. why because thats where they can get the most tax $s out of doing so. geez tbone could you spin your own rhetoric any more than this lol sure they do. if they raise the rate then no everybody pays but if they do it by reassessment then only the house reassessed for higher values wind up paying more. they do not reassess individual homes bonehead. they do it on a county wide basic regardless of how much the homes are worth in a particular area. larger homes have gone up the most. why because many counties used to value a 2nd or 3rd story at a lower rate than the 1st story because it is cheaper to build additional stories. now they value them here based on square footage regardless of actual value. the advantage or the reassessment method is that they can technically say that they did not raise taxes because they did not raise the rate. thats been a game plan for decades. our property taxes here in az remained stable until we got a new dem. gov. a couple years ago. then they skyrocketed using the above method. .

From : milesh

tbone wrote because of key assumptions that are used in its formulation. such as typical left and their secret formulas for this and that. i explained this many times and of course you always delete it because as much as you hate it you know that i am right. the unemployment numbers do not correlate with jobs created/lost because they are looking at two different things. when jobs peaked alot of people went to work that normally would not do so. they were never counted in the unemployment figures but were counted in the jobs created and lost. these are people that arent looking for work for whatever reason but took an opportunist market advantage for a quick $. ya know boner you seem to disregard %s and other figures except when you can use them to support your warped views. .

From : tbone

i didnt have to here your rant was a perfect self description. if you were to look back in the history of this group who was the one who attacks the most newbies. answer you. just about everything that you accuse me of you do yourelf. and usually far more than i do. and if youd look a bit closer youd find the ones that caught the most flack were trolls just like you. btw you also missed where i attacked to shut a troll up then reasoned with him and then helped him become a contributing member of the group. his screen name was f-350. oh well it just continues to show how childish and pathetic you really are once again budd go back and look at who does the most name calling and outright unprovoked attacks on others. why that would be you with your profanity and profane names like fucker asshole and the like. notice i only quoted them. fair enough. 1. someone asked how to get their ram into low range without engaging the front axle. i said to simply disconnect the vacuum connector from the front axle. you jumped in screaming that it could destroy the truck blow up the engine get himself killed which was all complete bs. tom l. even popped in and said that this was the way to do it but i should have mentioned to plug the vacuum lines and he was correct. i assumed that anyone disconnecting a vacuum line would automatically plug it up but even if they didnt none of the things that you said would even remotely happen and these lines do get pulled and fall off and there are no reports of vehicle explosions due to it in existence. iirc i have often admitted i am not expert on newer trucks but i was right that if the vacuum line was left open it could and would cause damage and be possibly dangerous to operate vacuum power brakes need vacuum ya know strike one. 2. during the bs tornado discussion you came up with the ingenious idea that the intake and exhaust gasses are moving at the same speed and volume. you based this on some previous discussion that you had with either denny or mac that i dont ever remember seeing. unless your engine is doing nothing more than a compressor would do this is impossible. need i say more yes try the truth. i never said they were moving at the same speed. i did calculate some intake flow speeds that you could not grasp with your limited and defective math education. btw it was max340 iirc. strike two. 3. a newbie came in here describing a problem with their engine. it would run for a short period of time and then just die and would not restart until it cooled off. he did say that he replaced the ignition controller and the coil. you came up with the idea of carbon locked rings and added symptoms that he never mentioned as the reason for your diagnosis. he later denied that the symptoms you invented were occurring and i said that it is more likely the fuel system vapor lock or ignition and the only reason that i mentioned the fuel system is that he had already replaced most of the ignition. i suggested that he replace the pickup before tearing down the engine like you suggested and as usual you turned it into another pissing match. he backed out of the thread smart man but did reply later that he swapped out the distributor for another that he had and the problem disappeared. unless replacing the distributor can somehow free up carbon locked rings .... i admitted the error which you conveniently overlooked as it would prove you to be what you are a lying troll. the only reason it degraded into a pissing match was because you began one of your vicious name calling attacks instead of talking reasonably a characteristic you have often shown you lack. btw his symptoms of dying when hot and no restart did match what my truck was doing before the overhaul. as a normal part of the repairs i disassembled cleaned repaired and lubed my distributor which did have sticky advance weights. its a common part of rebuilding an engine so i may have forgotton to mention that part of the rebuild. strike three. youre out. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

i didnt have to here your rant was a perfect self description. if you were to look back in the history of this group who was the one who attacks the most newbies. answer you. just about everything that you accuse me of you do yourelf. and usually far more than i do. and if youd look a bit closer youd find the ones that caught the most flack were trolls just like you. really then why was it you that got chased from the group twice i guess that you are right the trolls do get the most flack - btw you also missed where i attacked to shut a troll up then reasoned with him and then helped him become a contributing member of the group. his screen name was f-350. and that makes what one out of a thousand that you attack oh well it just continues to show how childish and pathetic you really are once again budd go back and look at who does the most name calling and outright unprovoked attacks on others. why that would be you with your profanity and profane names like fucker asshole and the like. notice i only quoted them. lol yea against who redrag and who is the one who starts that all of the time. btw who is the one who insults anothers mother. fair enough. 1. someone asked how to get their ram into low range without engaging the front axle. i said to simply disconnect the vacuum connector from the front axle. you jumped in screaming that it could destroy the truck blow up the engine get himself killed which was all complete bs. tom l. even popped in and said that this was the way to do it but i should have mentioned to plug the vacuum lines and he was correct. i assumed that anyone disconnecting a vacuum line would automatically plug it up but even if they didnt none of the things that you said would even remotely happen and these lines do get pulled and fall off and there are no reports of vehicle explosions due to it in existence. iirc i have often admitted i am not expert on newer trucks but i was right that if the vacuum line was left open it could and would cause damage and be possibly dangerous to operate vacuum power brakes need vacuum ya know lol it would cause no damage and you have nothing to back that stupid claim up. as for the power brakes lol there would not be enough of a loss to even effect them. at least you admit that you are not an exper on newer trucks and this just confirms that. strike one. for you. 2. during the bs tornado discussion you came up with the ingenious idea that the intake and exhaust gasses are moving at the same speed and volume. you based this on some previous discussion that you had with either denny or mac that i dont ever remember seeing. unless your engine is doing nothing more than a compressor would do this is impossible. need i say more yes try the truth. i never said they were moving at the same speed. i did calculate some intake flow speeds that you could not grasp with your limited and defective math education. btw it was max340 iirc. now you are just lying. while max was in the discussion he was not the one that you mentioned in the discussion where you calculated exhaust gas speeds. strike two. again for you. 3. a newbie came in here describing a problem with their engine. it would run for a short period of time and then just die and would not restart until it cooled off. he did say that he replaced the ignition controller and the coil. you came up with the idea of carbon locked rings and added symptoms that he never mentioned as the reason for your diagnosis. he later denied that the symptoms you invented were occurring and i said that it is more likely the fuel system vapor lock or ignition and the only reason that i mentioned the fuel system is that he had already replaced most of the ignition. i suggested that he replace the pickup before tearing down the engine like you suggested and as usual you turned it into another pissing match. he backed out of the thread smart man but did reply later that he swapped out the distributor for another that he had and the problem disappeared. unless replacing the distributor can somehow free up carbon locked rings .... i admitted the error which you conveniently overlooked as it would prove you to be what you are a lying troll. the only reason it degraded into a pissing match was because you began one of your vicious name calling attacks instead of talking reasonably a characteristic you have often shown you lack. lol now you are lying on multiple fronts. you in fact did not claim any such thing and when i challenged you on it after you did your usual thing of accusing me of knowing nothing you claimed that you didntt see it yet another lie. it degraded into a pissing match because you answered first and i said something else after that would make you wrong if i was right and i was. btw his symptoms of dying when hot and n

From : tbone

you grow up tom. youre the one that doesnt know the truth about big business about automechanics and lord knows what else. and yet im able to prove you wrong time and time again on both issues. youre the one that resorts to name calling everytime an argument goes against you lol perhaps you should reread this thread and see who has been doing most of the name calling. maybe you should include your derogatory comments when you make that total just because you take it that way doesnt make it so. perhaps you should stop bragging about how much you know and then list your failures disproving that knowledge in the same thread. i did list my business failures but not the reasons for the failures. in one my supplier couldnt keep up with my orders. in the other i lacked the woodworking equipment to fill my orders from the customer a simple case of demand being far above expectations or projections. unlike your derogatory assumptions i assumed that with the availability of modern electronic toys there wouldnt be much demand for wooden imagination powered toys. sorry but neither failure provides the proof you seek to defame me. defame you lol get a grip dude. actually both of these failures are completely your fault and show both bad planning and a lack of research and show that like many including myself you are not the all knowing master of buisness you claim to be. lol you are truly a business novice. youve never heard of the demand going far beyond market test results have you or test market test rusults not including half a state when the planned market was to be one small city lol so what having orders beyond production capability is usually a good thing. why would you ever need to expand if this were not true in the first case the tests showed a potential for sales volume of only about $5k / mo. when it went over $10k my supplier couldnt meet the demand. iow it wasnt my fault. yes it was for having only one supplier to begin with. you also didnt set up you test cases properly to be 100% off on your numbers lol. in the second case i planned for homemade wooden toys to be sold locally and while that lasted no probs. had about $4k in sales /mo. when relaitives from across the state of my local customers started ordering i was caught without the tooling and equipment. i guess it would be my fault if you call using my profits to live on my fault since i didnt plan on expanding any. it was to be part time only tom. this makes no since. why would being unable to fill orders put you out of business. you were obviously charging too little if you had no money to expand with and a bad business plan. why didnt you just refuse some of the orders sorry budd but both of these things were your fault because neither one had a any type of plan to deal with the unexpected. so you are at fault for saying it was my fault. now this is just funny. and youre the one that makes such rediculous assumptions about people just because you say it doesnt make it so. all i did was echo back what you said to me no assumptions needed. all i did was state personal history you made it derogatory. i did no such thing but because you would and have every chance you get i could possibly see why you would think that of others. by throwing back in my face in wording suggesting i was wholly to blame for my family being on welfare you did insult me. lol i did no such thing actually i did quite the opposit. i assumed that you would be one of the least likely to be on welfare and the fact that you were is proof positive that the short sighted extreemly right wing ideas that you happen to believe in or were brainwashed into believing are a load of shit and dont work in the real world. rotflmbo. tommy boy you are so freaking dense. you are a total clown. what does it take to get it thru your thick liberal skull that local unemployment at the time was in double digit percentages there were no freaking jobs of any kind. really nowhere in the entire us the want adds were completely empty i dont think so. why didnt you just move to a better area. i spent 4-6 hours a day looking for jobs door-to-door walking when i had no gasoline. and you couldnt find anything because why how about because you needed to make to much and they could simply find cheeper in that market and keep the money in their pockets. there were no jobs!!!!!!! no just no jobs for people like you. in that economic region at that time i would have worked in any job at any pay to have stayed off the dole something you have stated you are unwilling to do. ad yet you wound up there anyway which is proof positive that it take more than just the willingness to work as the right wing claims. the fact that you were willing to do it for any price makes you the perfect right

From : roy

let me look . . . . .no . . . . . . . nope . . . . . . . nada . . . . . .. . sorry tom i really did say you were the troll i even checked to make sure max wasnt on the list. budd has anybody heard from max been some time since ive seen anything posted by him. roy .

From : milesh

tbone wrote lol perhaps because times are different now and because the right is making a big deal out of it. to bad your man doesnt have any. the right is a puny little ad that was run on only 3 public tv stations and a few cable stations has caused more talk than the multi-million $ ads bashing bush. it is the left that is making the most noise about that one single ad. kerry would have done alot better had he just shut up and not whined. he himself got alot of people to go watch it for themselves who otherwise would not have. kerry is the swift boatmens own best advertiser. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol perhaps because times are different now and because the right is making a big deal out of it. to bad your man doesnt have any. the right is a puny little ad that was run on only 3 public tv stations and a few cable stations has caused more talk than the multi-million $ ads bashing bush. perhaps because this single add is questioning the mans honor something our current president should be careful of doing and it made the national circuit. it is the left that is making the most noise about that one single ad. lol what a load of crap. kerry would have done alot better had he just shut up and not whined. and when he initially tried to do that the extreme right wing like yourself made big deal of accusing him of trying to hide the truth. when he tried to look beyond it you made a big deal out of it and when he tried to defend himself you make a big deal out of that too. i guess thats the way that it is with the long practiced and perfected right wing smear tactics. damned if you do and damned if you dont. he himself got alot of people to go watch it for themselves who otherwise would not have. kerry is the swift boatmens own best advertiser. while the right wing would like for people to believe that we all know the real truth. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

lol you are truly a business novice. youve never heard of the demand going far beyond market test results have you or test market test rusults not including half a state when the planned market was to be one small city lol so what having orders beyond production capability is usually a good thing. why would you ever need to expand if this were not true expansion needs planning or it can ruin a business. besides too many orders for a part time business is not good for customer relations. in the first case the tests showed a potential for sales volume of only about $5k / mo. when it went over $10k my supplier couldnt meet the demand. iow it wasnt my fault. yes it was for having only one supplier to begin with. you also didnt set up you test cases properly to be 100% off on your numbers lol. idiot. i was under contract with only one supplier and there was an exclusion clause in the contract they refused to drop. as a result i could close the business reopen with another supplier or close the business completely. no other options. in the second case i planned for homemade wooden toys to be sold locally and while that lasted no probs. had about $4k in sales /mo. when relaitives from across the state of my local customers started ordering i was caught without the tooling and equipment. i guess it would be my fault if you call using my profits to live on my fault since i didnt plan on expanding any. it was to be part time only tom. this makes no since. why would being unable to fill orders put you out of business. you were obviously charging too little if you had no money to expand with and a bad business plan. why didnt you just refuse some of the orders your comprehension skills are extremely lacking ya know. it was part time!!!! it was after my heart surgery and i was still recovering so i couldnt upgrade production. i couldnt afford on part time money buy bigger bandsaws drill presses etc. what freaking part of that cant you understand idiot sorry budd but both of these things were your fault because neither one had a any type of plan to deal with the unexpected. you are a complete waste of time. you have no desire to really have a conversation because it would require you to comprehend what the other person was saying and build the conversation based on that. but you cant or worse dont want to. so you are at fault for saying it was my fault. now this is just funny. only to you. rotflmbo. tommy boy you are so freaking dense. you are a total clown. what does it take to get it thru your thick liberal skull that local unemployment at the time was in double digit percentages there were no freaking jobs of any kind. really nowhere in the entire us the want adds were completely empty i dont think so. why didnt you just move to a better area. i tried to and it was as bad. try to comprehend that this was before the internet opened up to the world before computers were a normal home appliance. i spent 4-6 hours a day looking for jobs door-to-door walking when i had no gasoline. and you couldnt find anything because why how about because you needed to make to much and they could simply find cheeper in that market and keep the money in their pockets. you ingrate idiot. hello is there anyone at home are you really trying to carry on a conversation or just be your usual self off in yourt own little liberal dreamland have you forgotton i was willing to take any job at any pay something you are not willing to do there were no jobs!!!!!!! no just no jobs for people like you. ah you lived there and know this for a fact or just demonstrating your stupidity again you freaking idiot!!!! and your demands for a certain wage prove you to be a greedy ass. lol damn you made me spill my coffee. truth shocks doesnt it there were no jobs!!!! you said that already and i still dont believe you. it doesnt matter wether you believe me or not it doesnt change the facts. you are so stupid. you cant understand plain english or are so brainwashed by the liberals to where you accept only what they tell you is true. i have no choice since what the right has to say is a complete load of shit. according to the right the only ones on welfare are lazy slackers that are not motivated to find work. if that is true then you are just using the slump in the economy as am excuse to suck on the government tit for a while and if not then your continued belief in it is just a combination of stupidity and brainwashing. your own load of crap is showing. the fact you often repeat the same old tired lies about conservatives prove you are the mascot of liberalism. yes i believe the able should be working and not on welfare and training should be available. but the truly needy should be able to get it without breaking up a family. no i was not lazy and just looki

From : budd cochran

not me. kinda worried about him. lost his email addy. . . budd let me look . . . . .no . . . . . . . nope . . . . . . . nada . . . . .. . . sorry tom i really did say you were the troll i even checked to make sure max wasnt on the list. budd has anybody heard from max been some time since ive seen anything posted by him. roy .

From : budd cochran

i didnt have to here your rant was a perfect self description. if you were to look back in the history of this group who was the one who attacks the most newbies. answer you. just about everything that you accuse me of you do yourelf. and usually far more than i do. and if youd look a bit closer youd find the ones that caught the most flack were trolls just like you. really then why was it you that got chased from the group twice i guess that you are right the trolls do get the most flack - only in your mind tom only in your mind. btw you also missed where i attacked to shut a troll up then reasoned with him and then helped him become a contributing member of the group. his screen name was f-350. and that makes what one out of a thousand that you attack no more like one of about 7 or so ive helped. the others were smarter than you and left being as they were just trolling and not here for info. oh well it just continues to show how childish and pathetic you really are once again budd go back and look at who does the most name calling and outright unprovoked attacks on others. why that would be you with your profanity and profane names like fucker asshole and the like. notice i only quoted them. lol yea against who redrag and who is the one who starts that all of the time. btw who is the one who insults anothers mother. after things said about me you still carry a grudge over something that i apologized for . . . you are a small person emnotionally. grow up. fair enough. 1. someone asked how to get their ram into low range without engaging the front axle. i said to simply disconnect the vacuum connector from the front axle. you jumped in screaming that it could destroy the truck blow up the engine get himself killed which was all complete bs. tom l. even popped in and said that this was the way to do it but i should have mentioned to plug the vacuum lines and he was correct. i assumed that anyone disconnecting a vacuum line would automatically plug it up but even if they didnt none of the things that you said would even remotely happen and these lines do get pulled and fall off and there are no reports of vehicle explosions due to it in existence. iirc i have often admitted i am not expert on newer trucks but i was right that if the vacuum line was left open it could and would cause damage and be possibly dangerous to operate vacuum power brakes need vacuum ya know lol it would cause no damage and you have nothing to back that stupid claim up. as for the power brakes lol there would not be enough of a loss to even effect them. at least you admit that you are not an exper on newer trucks and this just confirms that. drive a vehicle with a large vacuum leak tom and then get back to me ok strike one. for you. childish. 2. during the bs tornado discussion you came up with the ingenious idea that the intake and exhaust gasses are moving at the same speed and volume. you based this on some previous discussion that you had with either denny or mac that i dont ever remember seeing. unless your engine is doing nothing more than a compressor would do this is impossible. need i say more yes try the truth. i never said they were moving at the same speed. i did calculate some intake flow speeds that you could not grasp with your limited and defective math education. btw it was max340 iirc. now you are just lying. while max was in the discussion he was not the one that you mentioned in the discussion where you calculated exhaust gas speeds. without the combustion process which was not part of the discussion an enginme is just an air pump and the volume of flow out will be withing a small percentage of flow in. the calculations were for flow in . . . you know where the tornado was placed. as for max he could answer for sure for us couldnt he i did say iirc didnt i strike two. again for you. lo kids. 3. a newbie came in here describing a problem with their engine. it would run for a short period of time and then just die and would not restart until it cooled off. he did say that he replaced the ignition controller and the coil. you came up with the idea of carbon locked rings and added symptoms that he never mentioned as the reason for your diagnosis. he later denied that the symptoms you invented were occurring and i said that it is more likely the fuel system vapor lock or ignition and the only reason that i mentioned the fuel system is that he had already replaced most of the ignition. i suggested that he replace the pickup before tearing down the engine like you suggested and as usual you turned it into another pissing match. he backed out of the thread smart man but did reply later that he swapped out the distributor for another that he had and the problem disappeared. unless replacing the distrib

From : tbone

tbone wrote we all know how right wing your arse is you dont have to tell us. where should he stay in the red roof in. funny but i dont see any funding from the left or a possible killer book deal on the schedule like the clowns from the back door bush camp. you are avoiding the fact that those swift boat guys saying how great kerry is have all been on tour with kerry staying in 5 star hotels and basically being fed by kerrys bank roll. youre nuts if you are suggesting that the left is not funding any back door kerry camp as you call it. lol none of this happened until after the right wing tried to smear kerryd record but even with this vacation they still dont have a multi-million dollar book deal backing them likre the other lying assholes. really funny how kerrys signature is not on that citation bull pucky. kerry wrote the citation that these medals were based on. try again this time with some facts. how about you you claim that this is fact so prove it. the lead author in the bogus swift boat crap said that kerrys signature was not on it but he was sure that kerry wrote it. only in your shallow ignorant little mind. it is you right wing idiots that

From : tbone

lol you are truly a business novice. youve never heard of the demand going far beyond market test results have you or test market test rusults not including half a state when the planned market was to be one small city lol so what having orders beyond production capability is usually a good thing. why would you ever need to expand if this were not true expansion needs planning or it can ruin a business. besides too many orders for a part time business is not good for customer relations. then like i said poor planning on your part caused the buisness to fail. in the first case the tests showed a potential for sales volume of only about $5k / mo. when it went over $10k my supplier couldnt meet the demand. iow it wasnt my fault. yes it was for having only one supplier to begin with. you also didnt set up you test cases properly to be 100% off on your numbers lol. idiot. i was under contract with only one supplier and there was an exclusion clause in the contract they refused to drop. as a result i could close the business reopen with another supplier or close the business completely. no other options. idiot am i and who was the one who signed a contract with no escape clause for the supplier not being able to keep up with demand. in the second case i planned for homemade wooden toys to be sold locally and while that lasted no probs. had about $4k in sales /mo. when relaitives from across the state of my local customers started ordering i was caught without the tooling and equipment. i guess it would be my fault if you call using my profits to live on my fault since i didnt plan on expanding any. it was to be part time only tom. this makes no since. why would being unable to fill orders put you out of business. you were obviously charging too little if you had no money to expand with and a bad business plan. why didnt you just refuse some of the orders your comprehension skills are extremely lacking ya know. it was part time!!!! so what what does that have to do with anything it was after my heart surgery and i was still recovering so i couldnt upgrade production. i couldnt afford on part time money buy bigger bandsaws drill presses etc. then you should have raised your prices to either reduce demand of give you the funding to upgrade equipment. btw what type of toys did you make what freaking part of that cant you understand idiot lol now budd calm down and take a chill pill. we dont want to send you back to the hospital over something like this. sorry budd but both of these things were your fault because neither one had a any type of plan to deal with the unexpected. you are a complete waste of time. you have no desire to really have a conversation because it would require you to comprehend what the other person was saying and build the conversation based on that. but you cant or worse dont want to. sorry budd but you were the one starting up on this rant. i was simply saying that since an able bodied man with a family and a good work ethic you was unable to find work the right wing garbage of the only ones out of work are just lazy is a load of shit. so you are at fault for saying it was my fault. now this is just funny. only to you. really read the above line that you wroter again. does that not sound like something written by an angry 5 year old rotflmbo. tommy boy you are so freaking dense. you are a total clown. what does it take to get it thru your thick liberal skull that local unemployment at the time was in double digit percentages there were no freaking jobs of any kind. really nowhere in the entire us the want adds were completely empty i dont think so. why didnt you just move to a better area. i tried to and it was as bad. try to comprehend that this was before the internet opened up to the world before computers were a normal home appliance. then i guess that shoots down another one of the right wing ideas that work is always out there for those that seek to find it. i spent 4-6 hours a day looking for jobs door-to-door walking when i had no gasoline. and you couldnt find anything because why how about because you needed to make to much and they could simply find cheeper in that market and keep the money in their pockets. you ingrate idiot. hello is there anyone at home are you really trying to carry on a conversation or just be your usual self off in yourt own little liberal dreamland ingrate idiot hahahahahahaha that was funny. why is it that the only way to carry on a conversation with you is to be in full agreement with you have you forgotton i was willing to take any job at any pay something you are not willing to do i know that but that is not what the employers are going to see. what they are going to see is a guy that is willing to work for far less that what he needs and is

From : tbone

i didnt have to here your rant was a perfect self description. if you were to look back in the history of this group who was the one who attacks the most newbies. answer you. just about everything that you accuse me of you do yourelf. and usually far more than i do. and if youd look a bit closer youd find the ones that caught the most flack were trolls just like you. really then why was it you that got chased from the group twice i guess that you are right the trolls do get the most flack - only in your mind tom only in your mind. as well as reality budd. btw you also missed where i attacked to shut a troll up then reasoned with him and then helped him become a contributing member of the group. his screen name was f-350. and that makes what one out of a thousand that you attack no more like one of about 7 or so ive helped. the others were smarter than you and left being as they were just trolling and not here for info. oh so thats how it is. unless they come here to only ask the group regulars and offer no opinion of their own you allow them to stay. and you have been the group net nannie for how long oh well it just continues to show how childish and pathetic you really are once again budd go back and look at who does the most name calling and outright unprovoked attacks on others. why that would be you with your profanity and profane names like fucker asshole and the like. notice i only quoted them. lol yea against who redrag and who is the one who starts that all of the time. btw who is the one who insults anothers mother. after things said about me you still carry a grudge over something that i apologized for . . . you are a small person emnotionally. grow up. not at all budd i accepted your apology but like they say those in glass houses.... fair enough. 1. someone asked how to get their ram into low range without engaging the front axle. i said to simply disconnect the vacuum connector from the front axle. you jumped in screaming that it could destroy the truck blow up the engine get himself killed which was all complete bs. tom l. even popped in and said that this was the way to do it but i should have mentioned to plug the vacuum lines and he was correct. i assumed that anyone disconnecting a vacuum line would automatically plug it up but even if they didnt none of the things that you said would even remotely happen and these lines do get pulled and fall off and there are no reports of vehicle explosions due to it in existence. iirc i have often admitted i am not expert on newer trucks but i was right that if the vacuum line was left open it could and would cause damage and be possibly dangerous to operate vacuum power brakes need vacuum ya know lol it would cause no damage and you have nothing to back that stupid claim up. as for the power brakes lol there would not be enough of a loss to even effect them. at least you admit that you are not an exper on newer trucks and this just confirms that. drive a vehicle with a large vacuum leak tom and then get back to me ok and thats the problem budd it would not be a large vacuum leak. strike one. for you. childish. just following your lead.

From : miles

tbone wrote now who but what and that would be the cost of living in whatever area the employers are in. cost of living should set wages i see. so we should have fixed salaries based on cost of living. ya thatll work. lol gee this couldnt be politically motivated now could it perhaps they are using the same error in the reporting system that the national report used to make the numbers look better than they really are. lol. when economic reports show things are good they must be politically motivated. when they show something bad you liberals blast it on the front pages but thats not politically motivated. can you say hypocrite there tbone .

From : miles

roy wrote miles according to the military the guy who authored the book and claimed there was no hostile fire at the time is incorrect. the authors citation mentions action while under small arms fire. as does kerrys. they were both awarded medals for their action during the same fire fight. now it would seem either the author did what he claims kerry did or hes not telling the truth in his book. cant really have it both ways. can you provide a link to this authors record of citation i have found only kerrys and nobody else. the medals awarded were based on kerrys citation from what i have seen. guess ya have to define atrocities. you cant fight a war with rules as we are seeing. true except kerry is the one who blasted the military for the atrocities he himself admits to carrying out. in my view that is a coward and not a hero. if they were so bad in his view then he should have said something before returning to the usa. he was in a position to do so. that friggin mosque those people are in should have been the target for a arc light imo. screw the civilian causalities. yep. but the same type of anti-war nuts that directed how nam was to be fought seem to be doing the same in iraq. if us soldiers were inside a catholic church in iraq there are some it would surely be a target without question. .

From : miles

tbone wrote the only ones being wined and dined are the well compensated right wing scum you gotta be kidding!!! look who has been on tour with kerry. look who has been staying in 5 star hotels with kerry. ya right wing my arse! funny how the main author and the one making all of the noise also won a medal for the same incident. based on kerrys citation of the events. lol. it is not that he is claiming to be a war hero bull. that is exactly what he is running for president on. he used his 4 months in nam as a central focal point at the convention trying to show him as a war hero. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote now who but what and that would be the cost of living in whatever area the employers are in. cost of living should set wages i see. so we should have fixed salaries based on cost of living. ya thatll work. lol. could you spin any faster. actually your spin has now become pretty much outright fabrications and lies but i really expected as much. please indicate precisely where i ever said wages should be fixed. and yes the cost of living should and pretty much does set the lower income wages for places that want to hire adults. lol gee this couldnt be politically motivated now could it perhaps they are using the same error in the reporting system that the national report used to make the numbers look better than they really are. lol. when economic reports show things are good they must be politically motivated. not always but when they magically claim everything is good when it is not then yes it is usually politically motivated especially during an election year. btw the democrats are in power in nj so yes they do it too. when they show something bad you liberals blast it on the front pages but thats not politically motivated. yes they do jist like the conservatives and in both cases it is politically motivated. can you say hypocrite there tbone i dont know let me try.... miles ... yes i just did. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote the only ones being wined and dined are the well compensated right wing scum you gotta be kidding!!! look who has been on tour with kerry. look who has been staying in 5 star hotels with kerry. ya right wing my arse! we all know how right wing your arse is you dont have to tell us. where should he stay in the red roof in. funny but i dont see any funding from the left or a possible killer book deal on the schedule like the clowns from the back door bush camp. funny how the main author and the one making all of the noise also won a medal for the same incident. based on kerrys citation of the events. really funny how kerrys signature is not on that citation and the author admitted to knowing that but is sure that it is kerry. either way if he knew the truth as he puts it he should have set the record straight then and refused the metal. now he will because that was a war of no honor in many peoples eyes and the big bucks from the coming book more than make up for the loss of the medal. lol. it is not that he is claiming to be a war hero bull. that is exactly what he is running for president on. only in your shallow ignorant little mind. it is you right wing idiots that are bringing up the war bullshit and saying that bush should be elected because of his military leadership. kerry is making a point that he unlike our current president actually fought in a war and could do a better job than bush because he experienced it first hand. he used his 4 months in nam as a central focal point at the convention trying to show him as a war hero. which is 4 months more experience than our current do nothing positive for the country president has done. btw i notice that you keep forgetting that he served two tours of duty compared to our current presidents none. btw i see you did delete just about everything else. i expected as much. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote not always but when they magically claim everything is good when it is not then yes it is usually politically motivated especially during an election year. btw the democrats are in power in nj so yes they do it too. so why do you view in only one way when it shows things bad you agree with the reports and tout them when it shows things good you disagree with the reports and say theyre wrong and politically motivated. theyre right only if they agree with your views. .

From : gfrfan

miles wrote yet more distortions. exactly what jobs are being outsourced by union companies then again if they are not outsourcing then they will not be effected. sorry but i have no sympathy for companies that pay their ceo 30+ million a year and then outsource jobs to stay proffitable. 30 million is a big exageration for the vast majority of large corporations but thats besides the point. if a new ceo comes online and increases sales 300 million then heck ya he deserves 10 million. dang liberals who take it upon themselves to say how much a person should be allowed to make. a lot of times it isnt the sales that increases. its simply that profits go up due to outsourcing and wage and benefit cuts on the people on the shop floor. so the ceo gets a huge raise on the backs of the working man and the consumer because the corporation costs go down but the prices to the consumer stay the same thus higher profits and higher top level salaries. as far as tax cuts i have seen little in the way of cuts for me and my peers. i have seen my property taxes and sales taxes skyrocket while property taxes for people who can afford brand new $300000 houses have been abated while valuable cropland is gobbled up and existing home values drop. .

From : miles

tbone wrote we all know how right wing your arse is you dont have to tell us. where should he stay in the red roof in. funny but i dont see any funding from the left or a possible killer book deal on the schedule like the clowns from the back door bush camp. you are avoiding the fact that those swift boat guys saying how great kerry is have all been on tour with kerry staying in 5 star hotels and basically being fed by kerrys bank roll. youre nuts if you are suggesting that the left is not funding any back door kerry camp as you call it. really funny how kerrys signature is not on that citation bull pucky. kerry wrote the citation that these medals were based on. try again this time with some facts. only in your shallow ignorant little mind. it is you right wing idiots that are bringing up the war bullshit oh geez. this is the most unbelievable statement the left has made. and yes i say left because youre just repeating what the left keeps saying. kerry goes on and on and on about him and his 4 nam months and you have the nerve to whine about reps bringing the subject up kerry made his nam months the key focal point during the convention. what did he do on the day he appeared a 55 minute movie about him and his 4 nam months. then a speach talking almost exclusively about it. whine about the reps bringing it up. too funny. which is 4 months more experience than our current do nothing positive for the country president has done. btw i notice that you keep forgetting that he served two tours of duty compared to our current presidents none. two tours sorry tbone 4 months is not a tour. he ran when he could. .

From : tbone

jerry jlrice1655@earthlink.net wrote tbone wrote good luck trying to feed and cloth a wife and kids in todays world at that salary. i hate to burst your bubble but that is far from a booming economy. bullshit i can name several mid western states where that is a good living for many people who probable have just as nice a home as you do and live just as comfortable as you do. yeah but can you find a job making $25000/yr there sure can just about any smaller city in id mt wy nd sd ne ks iow if you are willing to live in a cultural vacuum you can survive on $25000. yea thats the american dreem. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : transurgeon

gee let me take a wild guess ........ the cost of living is lower.....golly-golly tbone figured something out. lets get this straight ................. where i live someone making 20-$25000 a year can buy a home just as nice as tbones raise a family as easily as tbone have as many cars as tbone and maybe even have a boat out back but because the place tbone lives it costs so much more to buy these things this poor dope living in the lower cost of living area should have his taxes increased pay for raising the min. wage so the fat ass in tbones town that is to lazy or dumb to move can eat better. yeah sure im the one that needs to figure it out huh........ better start doing some real life guessing yourself. lol i guess that i missed this post although with road runners shit servers thats no surprise. how do you know what kind of house i have or how many cars i have besides the truck and the nissan or even how big my family is. you are making a lot of assumptions here bud. but even if this were all true you must live in an especially depressed area to do all that and a boat too for $25000 a year. and i bet fining a job that even pays $25000 a year where you live is difficult as well. why the massive snippage boner .

From : milesh

tbone wrote you are getting me dizzy just watching you. there would be no rapid rise in taxes like you claim. there would be some rollbacks rollbacks oh man too funny. ok the tax cuts bush gave us are just rollbacks of the massive tax hikes that clinton gave us. call it what you want but it is a tax hike kerry will give. .

From : milesh

tbone wrote once again you make my point for me thanks gary. if this economy is so booming why should both parents have to work just to make ends meet you say it was booming in the 90s. both parents in the 90s had to work too in most cases. ya this two parent working thing just started the past 3 1/2 years or so. .

From : transurgeon

jerry jlrice1655@earthlink.net wrote tbone wrote good luck trying to feed and cloth a wife and kids in todays world at that salary. i hate to burst your bubble but that is far from a booming economy. bullshit i can name several mid western states where that is a good living for many people who probable have just as nice a home as you do and live just as comfortable as you do. yeah but can you find a job making $25000/yr there sure can just about any smaller city in id mt wy nd sd ne ks iow if you are willing to live in a cultural vacuum you can survive on $25000. yea thats the american dreem. cultural vacuum hardly call it instead the real america; a place where there is no drug problem; a place where the young people have respect and a work ethic; a place where you can do what you want when you want with little or no government interference; wide-open spaces with room to breathe fresh air and with internet connections available everywhere that cultural vacuum label is pretty much dead .

From : transurgeon

jerry jlrice1655@earthlink.net wrote tbone wrote good luck trying to feed and cloth a wife and kids in todays world at that salary. i hate to burst your bubble but that is far from a booming economy. bullshit i can name several mid western states where that is a good living for many people who probable have just as nice a home as you do and live just as comfortable as you do. yeah but can you find a job making $25000/yr there my question exactly. here again we see t-boners type of arguement insist that a family must live on a sole-wage-earners pay of $25000. in reality how many families live on one wage-earners check anymore .

From : jerry

iman nassoul wrote well here in arlington tx he got the city to pay almost $200 million for a park for his baseball team for which we are still paying. the teams contribution to the park $0. generally the teams contribution is to sign a long term contract to stay in town. the result is the local merchants and the city tax boxes will reap the benefits. you personally may not think so but arlington made up that money in a very short time and are now counting the profits which is better for you than the money going into the pockets of a few wealthy investors. jerry .

From : tbone

iman nassoul wrote well here in arlington tx he got the city to pay almost $200 million for a park for his baseball team for which we are still paying. the teams contribution to the park $0. exactly what im talking about. the rich get richer and the rest of us pay the bill. it kinda sucks but most sports stadiums are public funded. only a few privately funded ones. which just goes to show what kind of an idiot we currently have in the white house that he cant even do this right. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : idaspode

on thu 12 aug 2004 130624 gmt transurgeon nobulltrans@mchsi.dotcom wrote snip cultural vacuum hardly call it instead the real america; a place where there is no drug problem; a place where the young people have respect and a work ethic; a place where you can do what you want when you want with little or no government interference; wide-open spaces with room to breathe fresh air what he said. and with internet connections available everywhere that cultural vacuum label is pretty much dead well weve moved up a step from cave.net now the hot thing is twocan.net two cans and a string for high speed service fourcan.net you get two cans/strings on each end gotta have duplex capabilities ya know. dj .

From : tbone

tbone wrote thanks jerry but this number really means nothing. could you raise a family and own or even rent an comfortable home in a safe neighborhood for $25000 i was making around that about 10 years ago when i bought my first house and could just about make ends meet and i was alone at the time with no car payments or outstanding dept. i just sold that house for 3 times what i paid for it which would indicate that you would need to probably make around $65000 to $75000 a year to buy it now and it was sorta in the middle of nowhere for nj. good luck trying to feed and cloth a wife and kids in todays world at that salary. i hate to burst your bubble but that is far from a booming economy. let me get this straight. $25000 median income is far from a booming economy right but it is higher than the median income during the clinton booming economy years. and yes the numbers are adjusted for inflation etc. guess those 90s werent really booming after all. glad we got that straightend out! yawn is that all that you are capable of is right wing spin what exactly was the median income in say 97 or even 94 for that matter btw how do you adjust the median salary for inflation that just sounds like more right wing spin and makes the number even more meaningless. in order to adjust for inflation to allow a comparison across years as you claim you then have to base it on some standard particular year. exactly what year is it based on -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

gee let me take a wild guess ........ the cost of living is lower.....golly-golly tbone figured something out. lets get this straight ................. where i live someone making 20-$25000 a year can buy a home just as nice as tbones raise a family as easily as tbone have as many cars as tbone and maybe even have a boat out back but because the place tbone lives it costs so much more to buy these things this poor dope living in the lower cost of living area should have his taxes increased pay for raising the min. wage so the fat ass in tbones town that is to lazy or dumb to move can eat better. yeah sure im the one that needs to figure it out huh........ better start doing some real life guessing yourself. lol i guess that i missed this post although with road runners shit servers thats no surprise. how do you know what kind of house i have or how many cars i have besides the truck and the nissan or even how big my family is. you are making a lot of assumptions here bud. but even if this were all true you must live in an especially depressed area to do all that and a boat too for $25000 a year. and i bet fining a job that even pays $25000 a year where you live is difficult as well. why the massive snippage boner i wouldnt talk about snipping anything if i were you dude. and btw this snippage was from you since i didnt see jerrys original post all i say was this one from you. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

roy wrote fine lets compare some more. that 2 bdr. apartment rent was 500 -800 a month. a house that now costs 350k could be bought for 125k. also most jobs came with medical benefits paid by the company with out a employee contribution. medical benifits are still the norm for the very same jobs as before. it is true though that lately some of the costs are being passed on to employees especially for dependent coverage. i am not sure how they figure that into the labor reports. lol you really are in dreamland. medical benefits are almost always at an additional cost and that cost jumps up considerably when you include dependents at least in the tri-state area and most of new england. i would expect the same hold true for just about any metro-area. since medical is optional i doubt that the costs associated with it are added at all in the labor reports. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

jerry jlrice1655@earthlink.net wrote tbone wrote good luck trying to feed and cloth a wife and kids in todays world at that salary. i hate to burst your bubble but that is far from a booming economy. bullshit i can name several mid western states where that is a good living for many people who probable have just as nice a home as you do and live just as comfortable as you do. yeah but can you find a job making $25000/yr there my question exactly. here again we see t-boners type of arguement insist that a family must live on a sole-wage-earners pay of $25000. in reality how many families live on one wage-earners check anymore once again you make my point for me thanks gary. if this economy is so booming why should both parents have to work just to make ends meet i guess that the economy is not as booming as you would like to believe. but dont worry the corporate execs are thanking you between the laughing spells all the way to the bank. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote and where do you live oh yea arizona the middle of nowhere. how many family members do you have in california that work and for what companies. 4 all at small companies. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote how much money do you really think that they have to buy cars see tbone youre guessing here about the economics of mexico etc. youre using the age old myth that mexico is mostly poor run down with only a few rich people. not really. yes the economic climate in mexico is improving at our cost but it is still nowhere near what it is in the states. yes there are affluent areas in mexico but they are few and far between. bull crap. you have no clue bonehead. there is far more money in mexico than you and so many clueless people realize. oh never mind ya youre right almost everyone is dirt poor lives in a shack and rides a mule. my mistake. that is not what i said although many areas like the one you just described still exist. do you not understand the term affluent lol how huge lets see the numbers and im talking about mexican citizens not tour companies and americans who have summer homes there and would buy those vehicles here. mexico new car sales topped 1 million for 2003. i realize that the uss market is about 4 times that per capita but the strong rise in sales in mexico indicates that there are more than just a few rich people buying cars as you think. ya theyre mostly to americans down there im sure. http//www.dailystar.com/dailystar/relatedarticles/22488.php good artice and i was suprised at the number of new cars sold there however did you read the last paragraph of the article let me copy it here for you. zero-interest deals are common at most dealerships. there are also unconventional finance packages. for example consumers who are unable to make a hefty down payment can make monthly payments for up to 18 months before they get the keys to their new cars. notice that a hefty down payment is required and the unusual financing available to do it. this shows that the typical person hs little money if they are giving up to 18 months just to get the deposit and the default rate something not really mentioned in this article must be very high. this indicates that the portrait you are painting of mexico being the next shangri-la is once again nothing more than right wing spin. a sudden rise in interest rates would crash the market and the fed knows it. so would a rapid rise in taxes should kerry be elected. oh ya only the rich and theyre evil anyways. you are getting me dizzy just watching you. there would be no rapid rise in taxes like you claim. there would be some rollbacks but these people were rich before the tax cuts so i doubt that they will be crushed or that their lifestyle would even be remotely effected. if they pull suddenly out of the market they will get wacked with capital gains taxed so that is unlikely to happen. as for the buisnesses if they are making billions and are still outsourcing jobs they dont deserve the tax breaks because they are not doing what was required to get them in the first place. you can spin all you want to but these tax cut rollbacks will have no long term negative effect on the economy. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote lol you really are in dreamland. medical benefits are almost always at an additional cost and that cost jumps up considerably when you include dependents at least in the tri-state area and most of new england. i do not pay any additional cost neither does my wife and 2000 of her co-workers. neither does anyone in my family in az or ca. there are additional costs for dependent coverage of $50-$150/month for some of my relatives and friends. you really need to move since you have lousy wages no jobs poor salaries high cost of living and poor health coverage in your area. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote you are getting me dizzy just watching you. there would be no rapid rise in taxes like you claim. there would be some rollbacks rollbacks oh man too funny. ok the tax cuts bush gave us are just rollbacks of the massive tax hikes that clinton gave us. call it what you want but it is a tax hike kerry will give. lol ok then answer this. why is it that even with clintons massive tax hikes as you call them this country was prosperous and now even after 3 years of bush and his tax cuts for the wealthy we are still creeping along. did you look at the stock market today some booming economy. oh yea that right we are all going to get rich on $25000 a year lol! -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote lol ok then answer this. why is it that even with clintons massive tax hikes as you call them this country was prosperous and now prosperous in your mind maybe. which years exactly all 8 the economy was headed downhill in clintons last year. economists had been predicting a rapid decline as a direct result of the massive investments people made that initially created so much money in the economy. i know youve already said this was just part of the last couple years of clinton. you are aware that the average unemployment during clintons years was higher than now. dont let the actual facts get in your way. .

From : milesh

tbone wrote his tax cuts for the wealthy forgot about this blunder of yours. why do you say they were cuts for the wealthy when in fact the majority of taxpayers received a cut why do you say they were cuts for the wealthy when in fact the richest 5% now pay a higher % of total taxes paid than during the 90s sure go ahead and say its bs it wont change the facts look it up rather than guessing based on propaganda. they pay less total taxes but so do most others. dang liberals that buy into politicians propaganda absent of actual facts. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote his tax cuts for the wealthy forgot about this blunder of yours. it is not a blunder its just your right wing spin trying to hide the truth agsin. why do you say they were cuts for the wealthy when in fact the majority of taxpayers received a cut because even though the majority of taxpayers receive the cut only the top 10% actually receive any real value from it. why do you say they were cuts for the wealthy when in fact the richest 5% now pay a higher % of total taxes paid than during the 90s lol give me a break. the top 5% as you call them also have 90% of the money. i have to agree with roy here figures dont bullshit but bullshitters always figure. i know that most of you right wingers love to use percentages because they are so easily distorted just like in the k&n debate where the k&n lets up to a massive 50% more dirt than the paper filter while in reality it can let in up to only 1% more in actual volume lol. now here you are doing it again with the taxpayers. sure go ahead and say its bs it wont change the facts look it up rather than guessing based on propaganda. why should i it is just right wing fuzzy math and propeganda. if you make the claim then you back it up. they pay less total taxes but so do most others. yea but how much less and what is the total cost of these tax cuts and who are the ones really being helped by them dang liberals that buy into politicians propaganda absent of actual facts. dany conservative puppets that live for fuzzy math ansd cant see past their own noses. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote because even though the majority of taxpayers receive the cut only the top 10% actually receive any real value from it. please define real value. i am not rich and my lower taxs sure helped me this year. in terms of $s sure the rich will see more. they pay more. i know you want a tax cut for those that do not pay any taxes. rofl. lol give me a break. the top 5% as you call them also have 90% of the money. you forget that the wealthy also pay the majority of our taxes but thats irrelevant right since after all theyre just evil greedy bastards that have too much money and need it taken from them. why should i it is just right wing fuzzy math and propeganda. if you make the claim then you back it up. my claim youre the one that claimed the tax cuts were for the wealthy. now back your claim up. yea but how much less and what is the total cost of these tax cuts and who are the ones really being helped by them the wealthiest got the lowest % tax breaks not the largest as you seem to believe. they pay far more in taxes so in terms of $s of course they gain more. ya lets cut taxes for people that dont even pay any. dany conservative puppets dany .

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol ok then answer this. why is it that even with clintons massive tax hikes as you call them this country was prosperous and now prosperous in your mind maybe. yea mine the economists and the history books but feel free to keep spinning. which years exactly all 8 no from about the middle of his second year on to about the middle of his last. the economy was headed downhill in clintons last year. yea around the middle of it and has continued on that track too pretty much now iow bushs entire first and only term. economists had been predicting a rapid decline as a direct result of the massive investments people made that initially created so much money in the economy. really then why did nobody bother to get out they predicted that it would flatten out and self correct but nobody expected what happened or that it would happen so fast.. i guess that can happen when people have doubts in the comming leadership either bush or gore. i know youve already said this was just part of the last couple years of clinton. actually it was the last 6 months of clinton. you are aware that the average unemployment during clintons years was higher than now. dont let the actual facts get in your way. do you mean your fuzzy math again please tell me how we can lose over 3 million jobs only recover about a third of that and not even including the increase in population during this time have a lower unemployment rate. despite the apparent mathematical impossibility for this to happen it turns out to be quite simple really. the rate is based on the total number of people working compared to the total number of people looking for work. since there is no practical way to determine how many people are looking for work they base it on time. if you do not find work within a certian period of time it is determined that you have either retired or are no longer activly seeking employment are no longer in the workforce. by usng this loophole in how the rate is calculated they can significantly reduce the number of people that are unemployed and although the number is bullshit it looks good for those that are in charge. perhaps it is you that should get some facts. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote iow if you are willing to live in a cultural vacuum you can survive on $25000. yea thats the american dreem. cultural vacuum you mean the american dream is to live in the big city no thanks. thats not my dream. and with $25000 as the median salary it wont be a possible choice either for those that do. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

iow if you are willing to live in a cultural vacuum you can survive on $25000. yea thats the american dreem. cultural vacuum yea which one of those two words didnt you understand hardly call it instead the real america; a place where there is no drug problem; hahahahahaha are you for real. sorry my friend but drugs are there too. a place where the young people have respect and a work ethic; yea it sounds real nice. too bad it is a load of crap. i guess that they dont listen to gangster wrap cuss or smoke cigarettes there either lol. a place where you can do what you want when you want with little or no government interference; ah now there is the real issue. like most of the extreem right wing you are scared of society and don;t want to take responsibility for your actions. wide-open spaces with room to breathe fresh air lol yea just ignore the acid rain and the strip mining when it gets to an area where you want to be. and with internet connections available everywhere that cultural vacuum label is pretty much dead and that same internet connection that brings all of the negative crap like drugs porn and whatever else into your little shangri-la -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol you really are in dreamland. medical benefits are almost always at an additional cost and that cost jumps up considerably when you include dependents at least in the tri-state area and most of new england. i do not pay any additional cost neither does my wife and 2000 of her co-workers. neither does anyone in my family in az or ca. and where do you live oh yea arizona the middle of nowhere. how many family members do you have in california that work and for what companies. there are additional costs for dependent coverage of $50-$150/month for some of my relatives and friends. $150 a month on a $25000 salary is a hard hit dont ya think. you really need to move since you have lousy wages no jobs poor salaries high cost of living and poor health coverage in your area. i did move although it was not due to wages or the high cost of living. but even down here in nc $25000 will not buy you a whole lot unless you are out in the sticks. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote once again you make my point for me thanks gary. if this economy is so booming why should both parents have to work just to make ends meet you say it was booming in the 90s. no i said that it was doing well. you like to use the term booming. both parents in the 90s had to work too in most cases. really got proof. ya this two parent working thing just started the past 3 1/2 years or so. no but up to not to long ago many did it because they wanted to for luxury items savings and vacations. now many have to do it to keep their homes and their children fed. times are different now and harder any way you want to spin it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote the top 5% as you call them also have 90% of the money. if you make the claim then you back it up. good idea ......... how about backing it up. jerry pick up any sociology book and read the first chapter. it is in all of them because this vast difference between the select few in this country and the rest of us in wealth has much to do with the current sociology in this country. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote because even though the majority of taxpayers receive the cut only the top 10% actually receive any real value from it. please define real value. enough spendable money to do something with. i am not rich and my lower taxs sure helped me this year. if that is true then you are either richer than you claim or are living well beyond your means. in terms of $s sure the rich will see more. they pay more. wow your grasp of numbers just amazes me. they pay more because they get more and because they can afford to. my question to you is if people can do just fine buying a house and raising a family on $25000 wht do they need to make so much. what you right wing puppets fail to realise is that the top down economy works both ways. when we pay them more things cost us more so why do they need to make so much greed i know you want a tax cut for those that do not pay any taxes. rofl. yawn. lol give me a break. the top 5% as you call them also have 90% of the money. you forget that the wealthy also pay the majority of our taxes but thats irrelevant right they also get the most but i guess that is irrelevent as well. the funny thing is that they can afford to pay more with no effect to thier lifestyles so in a way it is irrelevent. since after all theyre just evil greedy bastards for the most part true. not so much evil just greedy. that have too much money and need it taken from them. lol more right wing spin. i never said that. what i said was since they get the most from this society they should contribute the most to it. why should i it is just right wing fuzzy math and propeganda. if you make the claim then you back it up. my claim youre the one that claimed the tax cuts were for the wealthy. now back your claim up. i dont have to you did it for me. yea but how much less and what is the total cost of these tax cuts and who are the ones really being helped by them the wealthiest got the lowest % tax breaks not the largest as you seem to believe. here we go with the right wing spin hiding behind the percentages again because the real numbers paint a very different picture. they pay far more in taxes so in terms of $s of course they gain more. and need it the least. ya lets cut taxes for people that dont even pay any. sometimes that needs to be done to get these people working and spending money to create jobs. that simply doesnt happen giving big tax cuts to people that already have more money than they know what to do with as has been so clearly seen over the past 3 years. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : jerry

tbone wrote tbone wrote the top 5% as you call them also have 90% of the money. if you make the claim then you back it up. good idea ......... how about backing it up. jerry pick up any sociology book and read the first chapter. it is in all of them because this vast difference between the select few in this country and the rest of us in wealth has much to do with the current sociology in this country. no you made the claim. you back it up with proof. i know you wont because you never do because cant. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote do you mean your fuzzy math again go look up the unemployment rate for each year clinton was in office. lol so what. the numbers have no valid comparable meaning as is obvious by the current ones now. your definition of fuzzy math seems to mean to simply ignore facts. no that would be you not understanding the way these figures are calculated. look at the so called great years and compare the unemployment then to now. no look at the actual job losses then and now. but you wont because the truth hurts the eyes of most right wingers. dang liberals and their fuzzy math that shows the same numbers as great under clinton but bad under bush. because under clinton we didnt have record job losses like we did under bush. this number has still not been made up and with the population increases that also occurred the bush unemployment figure is artificially low due to an error or loophole in the way it is calculated. the only one with the fuzzy math here is you. i did notice how you magically tried to make that explanation disappear. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote enough spendable money to do something with. and how do that by cutting taxes for people who pay little to no taxes to begin with an across the board tax cut in your mind is a tax cut for rich only. youre just pissed because someone earns more than you and you want some of it. if that is true then you are either richer than you claim or are living well beyond your means. why the tax cut helped me. it put more of my money back into my pocket where it belongs. when we pay them more things cost us more so why do they need to make so much greed who in the hell do you think you are to tell me or anyone else that they make too much to paraphrase cheney today you just wrapped up the far left wing illogical crap and put a bow on it. what makes this country great is the ability to achieve ones desires. dang radical left wings who want everything evened out so nobody makes so much. they also get the most but i guess that is irrelevent as well. the funny thing is that they can afford to pay more with no effect to thier lifestyles so in a way it is irrelevent. so we should take more of their money from them simply because they have it and you want it you people see the wealthy as a bottomless moneypit. you need more money for something just take it from the rich. tell me boner where do you set the limit how much should the rich be able to make how much taxes should they pay lol more right wing spin. i never said that. what i said was since they get the most from this society they should contribute the most to it. they by far already do just that yet you want more of their money taken away. how much is enough for you to take here we go with the right wing spin hiding behind the percentages again because the real numbers paint a very different picture. real numbers how the hell can we cut taxes $20000 for someone who only pays $2000 in taxes to begin with thats the liberal fuzzy math. and need it the least. its a tax cut not a hand out. when will you learn that you cant cut taxes for someone who doesnt pay them sometimes that needs to be done to get these people working and spending money to create jobs. handing out money to the poor does not create jobs. it oppresses them and keeps them under liberal control. these people need help training etc. they need to be lifted up not bring the top down as you want. i am all for subsidizing education for the poor. teach them how to get off the public dole not just hand them more money and hold them there. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote ah now there is the real issue. like most of the extreem right wing you are scared of society and don;t want to take responsibility for your actions. now thats funny!! na just reality. ya we wanna be like you and let the good old government solve all our problems. lol now thats funny. i dont expect the government to solve my problems just protect me from those that im unable to protect myself from like corrupt big business. the problem now is that our current president and his staff happens to be owned by big business especially the energy companies. lefties all want self responsibility i cant speak for them but i take self responsibility and dont whine every time a new law appears. they appear for a reason and its usually the ones whining about them that caused them to be written. oh well while this has been fun i need to go back to jersey and get my truck. have a good weekend and good luck with the repairs on yours. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote tbone wrote the top 5% as you call them also have 90% of the money. if you make the claim then you back it up. good idea ......... how about backing it up. jerry pick up any sociology book and read the first chapter. it is in all of them because this vast difference between the select few in this country and the rest of us in wealth has much to do with the current sociology in this country. no you made the claim. you back it up with proof. i know you wont because you never do because cant. i just did. id ask you to confirm it from one of your friends but you dont have any. im still waiting for your list as is mgg and none yet imagine that. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : jerry

miles wrote tbone wrote enough spendable money to do something with. and how do that by cutting taxes for people who pay little to no taxes to begin with an across the board tax cut in your mind is a tax cut for rich only. youre just pissed because someone earns more than you and you want some of it. yep and the key word there is earns. notice how he keeps using terms that are saturated with the words gave or give like give back to society what society gave them as if society earned all the wealth someone accumulates. bottom line to him is work your ass off making money so we can tax you and then government can give me some of your wealth so i dont have to work as hard as you do. jerry .

From : miles

tbone wrote that is correct and the math proves it. the peopel that need the money the most get the least while the ones that dont need it at all get the most. get the most it is their money to begin with. youre under the dilusion that its a priviledge to get to keep some of the money you earn rather than let the government take it. a tax cut isnt giving it is a reduction in taking. dang liberal backasswards mentality. yet more twist and spin. i dont care how much you or anyone else makes but if you feel the need to be as greedy as many and i totally believe that you do then you need to pay your fair share and nothing more. oh but you do care how much people make. if they make too much then they are greedy and need to pay more. i asked once but ill ask again. what is mine or anyone elses fair share to pay how much should a rich person have to pay you take a lot you pay a lot pure and simple. the wealthy already pay alot but you do not feel it is enough and want to take more for the simple reason that they are still rich so they can afford it. dang backasswards liberal mentality. its not that i want it its that the country needs it to maintain its infrastructure. you mean oppression not infrastructure. i dont want more taken away but giving it back when we need it the most is just retarded and so typical of this idiot of a president. huh clinton took more away and you are ok with that. people should be able to keep what they earn. how is it up to me you are the one saying the rich do not pay enough. so define enough. you have yet to do so. like i want lol. sorry pinhead but the training that you claim that they need was cut by our idiot of a president to help pay for these tax cuts. no it wasnt. education expenses have doubled with bush over clinton. now who distributes that money you better look it up if you do not know. pay close attention to political affiliation of just who distributes these funds. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote enough spendable money to do something with. and how do that by cutting taxes for people who pay little to no taxes to begin with lol they pay little to no taxes because they make little to no money which just shows that a simple tax cut does nothing for the average american. an across the board tax cut in your mind is a tax cut for rich only. that is correct and the math proves it. the peopel that need the money the most get the least while the ones that dont need it at all get the most. youre just pissed because someone earns more than you and you want some of it. now thats just being idiotic. if that is true then you are either richer than you claim or are living well beyond your means. why the tax cut helped me. it put more of my money back into my pocket where it belongs. how much more did it really put back into your pocket a couple of hundred. if that made a real difference in your life then you are living above your means and if you got more you are making more than you claim to. when we pay them more things cost us more so why do they need to make so much greed who in the hell do you think you are to tell me or anyone else that they make too much i didnt. leave it to a paranoid right winger to come up with that one from what i said. byw you still didnt answer the question. to paraphrase cheney today you just wrapped up the far left wing illogical crap and put a bow on it. what makes this country great is the ability to achieve ones desires. and if that were only true. the funny thing is that there really are people dumb enough to believe it. dang radical left wings who want everything evened out so nobody makes so much. yet more twist and spin. i dont care how much you or anyone else makes but if you feel the need to be as greedy as many and i totally believe that you do then you need to pay your fair share and nothing more. you take a lot you pay a lot pure and simple. they also get the most but i guess that is irrelevent as well. the funny thing is that they can afford to pay more with no effect to thier lifestyles so in a way it is irrelevent. so we should take more of their money from them simply because they have it and you want it its not that i want it its that the country needs it to maintain its infrastructure. you people see the wealthy as a bottomless moneypit. not at all. you need more money for something just take it from the rich. if only that were true. tell me boner where do you set the limit how much should the rich be able to make how much taxes should they pay there is no simple answer to that. but i have said and will say that when someone makes 50 to 100 times that of his employees even the lowest paid ones then he / she is a greedy fuck and i have no sympathy for them. as for what they should pay whatever it take to keep this country running and strong. lol more right wing spin. i never said that. what i said was since they get the most from this society they should contribute the most to it. they by far already do just that yet you want more of their money taken away. i dont want more taken away but giving it back when we need it the most is just retarded and so typical of this idiot of a president. how much is enough for you to take how is it up to me here we go with the right wing spin hiding behind the percentages again because the real numbers paint a very different picture. real numbers how the hell can we cut taxes $20000 for someone who only pays $2000 in taxes to begin with thats the liberal fuzzy math. you cant and thats my whole point. these flat tax cuts do nothing for the people that need it the most and everything for people that dont need it at all. the fuzzy math is a right wing thing like your unemployed percentages. and need it the least. its a tax cut not a hand out. when will you learn that you cant cut taxes for someone who doesnt pay them no shit sherlock i do no that and once again you make my point. sometimes that needs to be done to get these people working and spending money to create jobs. handing out money to the poor does not create jobs. actually yes it does. handing out a huge sum of mony to a few people that dont need it does nothing for the economy or even for them. handing out usabe amounts to a large group of people creates a large demand for goods and services that need to be performed and that creaates jobs. it oppresses them and keeps them under liberal control. only if it is not done properly while keeping them poor keeps them under conservative control in the form of cheep unskilled labor. these people need help training etc. they need to be lifted up not bring the top down as you want. like i want lol. sorry pinhead but the training that you claim that they need was cut by our idiot of a president to help pay

From : transurgeon

tbone wrote they also get the most but i guess that is irrelevent as well. the funny thing is that they can afford to pay more with no effect to thier lifestyles so in a way it is irrelevent. so we should take more of their money from them simply because they have it and you want it you people see the wealthy as a bottomless moneypit. you need more money for something just take it from the rich. tell me boner where do you set the limit how much should the rich be able to make how much taxes should they pay ask him at what point he should stop making more money so he doesnt get forced to receive one of those nasty old tax cuts for the rich............. .

From : budd cochran

i dont care how much you or anyone else makes but if you feel the need to be as greedy . . . well tom. it appears actually that anyone that makes more than you is greedy and therefore automatically a evil person. very socialistic of you. a point of clarification please. do you feel that a person should be able to reap the rewards according to their efforts or not there is no simple answer to that. but i have said and will say that when someone makes 50 to 100 times that of his employees even the lowest paid ones then he / she is a greedy fuck and i have no sympathy for them. tell us tom who is better able finacially to produce job opportunities in this country a person reaping his rewards for his genius and efforts or a society where those unwilling to produce notice that i did not say unable have the same income as those busting a gut. in the sociology studies i had one thing was made clear if you take away a persons incentive to be productive you destroy the person socially. he loses all reason or need to achieve anything. remember star trek was just gene rodenberrys socialist dream. how much is enough for you to take how is it up to me i think what hes asking is how much do you think the rich should be forced to surrender to the government you cant and thats my whole point. these flat tax cuts do nothing for the people that need it the most and everything for people that dont need it at all. the fuzzy math is a right wing thing like your unemployed percentages. the only fuzzy math ive seen is yours as usual. if the poor have more then theoretically they could use it to get out and find work but reality usually means they pay bills they been forced to ignore. otoh the rich can use that percentage though there is no guarantee they will to create jobs. something the percent of returned income is insufficient to do in the poor classes. handing out money to the poor does not create jobs. actually yes it does. handing out a huge sum of mony to a few people that dont need it does nothing for the economy or even for them. handing out usabe amounts to a large group of people creates a large demand for goods and services that need to be performed and that creaates jobs. ah . . . such a beautiful dream. wrong of course as history and the welfare system has proved but a liberal dream none the less. have you ever been in such dire straits as to find yourself trapped in the welfare system hmmm have ever known anyone that was able to utilize the income from the welfare system to get training or launch their own business only if it is not done properly while keeping them poor keeps them under conservative control in the form of cheep unskilled labor. same dream act 2. these people need help training etc. they need to be lifted up not bring the top down as you want. like i want lol. sorry pinhead but the training that you claim that they need was cut by our idiot of a president to help pay for these tax cuts. tom if a person really wants to learn a skill they will find a way and the financing. apprenticeships are a good way but have fallen into disuse unfortunately. i am all for subsidizing education for the poor. teach them how to get off the public dole not just hand them more money and hold them there. and what if there are no jobs for them to take to get off the dole what if the regulations about receiving the dole cut your chances of getting off it by punishing you if you try to get ahead a few bucks i ask again have you ever been on welfare come on confession is good for the soul and itd make you more acceptable to the rednecked trailer trash you love to abuse. well you might be but bush isnt. instead of stupid tax cuts when the money is needed the most or did we forget about the current war it could have better been used to subsidise education and transportation and build low cost day care so that these lower income people can get work and help build the economy. propaganda tom. pure propaganda. spend a few years on the dole and then try to get off it without using any of your current skills. would you be willing to scrub toilets in a hospital or nursing home to get off the dole how about dump garbage clean septic tanks or maintain a city sewer system you need to quit swallowing the liberal propaganda and open your eyes to reality. the welfare system as it sits does not work your socialist ideals wont work and you continue to avoid reality and percentages even though you use them every day. budd .

From : budd cochran

rotflmbo!!! chalk up a point for yourself! budd tbone wrote they also get the most but i guess that is irrelevent as well. the funny thing is that they can afford to pay more with no effect to thier lifestyles so in a way it is irrelevent. so we should take more of their money from them simply because they have it and you want it you people see the wealthy as a bottomless moneypit. you need more money for something just take it from the rich. tell me boner where do you set the limit how much should the rich be able to make how much taxes should they pay ask him at what point he should stop making more money so he doesnt get forced to receive one of those nasty old tax cuts for the rich............. .

From : tom lawrence

does this post warrant a welcome back if so welcome back budd! .

From : budd cochran

hi tom. after much consideration prayer and kind messages from a bunch of the crazy clowns in the group about the cushman im back. shrek now is the time to scream and run. how ya been friend budd does this post warrant a welcome back if so welcome back budd! .

From : tom lawrence

after much consideration prayer and kind messages from a bunch of the crazy clowns in the group about the cushman im back. shrek now is the time to scream and run. how ya been friend pretty well. saw the pic of you riding the cushman... nice to finally see it running. hows the truck holding up .

From : budd cochran

my eldest son has it now ... after giving me a 95 chrysler lebaron gtc for my birthday. i ought to store it until he can restore it to original as its not only the last year made model but a one year only color spruce metallic blue / green. hes fixing some minor repairs on the truck i had to overlook due to my health / income situation last year but plans to use it as a daily driver after trade school wyotech until he can open his own custom shop. then it will become his calling card and shop truck with body mods air suspension and trick paint. other than that its still embarrassing fords and chevys with either dependability gas mileage 18 mpg highway with an 800 pound load going to phoenix or power. budd after much consideration prayer and kind messages from a bunch of the crazy clowns in the group about the cushman im back. shrek now is the time to scream and run. how ya been friend pretty well. saw the pic of you riding the cushman... nice to finally see it running. hows the truck holding up .

From : jerry

tbone wrote only 200k lol. do you make more than that miles didnt you and jerry and gary just make the claim that a great life could be made on $25000 no you did but nice try on another lie. we simply said the national median income was set at $25000 for the 2004 year. jerry .

From : tbone

tbone wrote sure i do. where did i say differently. but as i asked miles ill ask you. do you think the head of a large company should make 50 100 sometimes even 1000 times more than his lower payed employees and then compalin because of taxes so you are saying that you feel he is making too much and therefore needs his taxes raised regardless of how much he is currently being taxed. lol could you spin any faster. do i think that he is making too much of course i do and so would anyone else with a functioning brain stem. did i say that he needs his taxes raised no! i said that he shouldnt compalin about his taxes when he pays himself so much at the expence of others. and any way you spin it miles the money is comming from others and usually others making far less. taxes are based on how much someone makes not how much someone else makes. no shit sherlock but what does that have to do with the discussion at hand and btw you still didnt answer the question. like i said before there is no easy answer but cutting taxes as you massivly increase expenses is just stupid and serves no purpose. raising taxes because you feel someone makes too much or makes more than someone else is absurd. keeping high taxes in a down economy is absurd. besides kerry isnt talking about raising taxes for the filthy evil greedy rich. he set the bar at only 200k. only 200k lol. do you make more than that miles didnt you and jerry and gary just make the claim that a great life could be made on $25000 even if he was taxed at 50% he would still bring home 4 times the amount of your good life amount after taxes. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote they also get the most but i guess that is irrelevent as well. the funny thing is that they can afford to pay more with no effect to thier lifestyles so in a way it is irrelevent. so we should take more of their money from them simply because they have it and you want it you people see the wealthy as a bottomless moneypit. you need more money for something just take it from the rich. tell me boner where do you set the limit how much should the rich be able to make how much taxes should they pay ask him at what point he should stop making more money so he doesnt get forced to receive one of those nasty old tax cuts for the rich............. whats the matter you afraid to do it -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : transurgeon

tbone wrote they also get the most but i guess that is irrelevent as well. the funny thing is that they can afford to pay more with no effect to thier lifestyles so in a way it is irrelevent. so we should take more of their money from them simply because they have it and you want it you people see the wealthy as a bottomless moneypit. you need more money for something just take it from the rich. tell me boner where do you set the limit how much should the rich be able to make how much taxes should they pay ask him at what point he should stop making more money so he doesnt get forced to receive one of those nasty old tax cuts for the rich............. whats the matter you afraid to do it ok at what point will you make too much money and therefore be forced to accept one of thoser tax cuts for the rich lets have a dollar figure................if you want to have any credibility you will set a figure since you are the one constantly harping on this point .

From : milesh

tbone wrote lol could you spin any faster. do i think that he is making too much of course i do and so would anyone else with a functioning brain stem. in this country people are and should be able to make as much as their abilities lead them. its the liberal too much mentality that is absurd. the liberal/socialist/communist idea of redistribution of wealth is not the way i for one want this country to go. it isnt what built this country and it isnt what will keep it going. did i say that he needs his taxes raised no! bull. you most certainly did say so. you support kerrys plan to raise taxes. but you follow like a puppet and call it a rollback. if we pay higher than now it is a tax hike. otherwise we will call bushs tax cuts simply a rollback of the tax hikes clinton gave us. no shit sherlock but what does that have to do with the discussion at hand and btw you still didnt answer the question. alot. you whined that someone that makes alot more than someone else cant say diddly about their already high taxes going up further. only 200k lol. do you make more than that miles oh so now 200k is considered evil and greedy and should be taxed accordingly .

From : tbone

i dont care how much you or anyone else makes but if you feel the need to be as greedy . . . well tom. it appears actually that anyone that makes more than you is greedy and therefore automatically a evil person. very socialistic of you. lol that is just spin on your part here since you have no idea how much i make or am worth. a point of clarification please. do you feel that a person should be able to reap the rewards according to their efforts or not sure i do. where did i say differently. but as i asked miles ill ask you. do you think the head of a large company should make 50 100 sometimes even 1000 times more than his lower payed employees and then compalin because of taxes there is no simple answer to that. but i have said and will say that when someone makes 50 to 100 times that of his employees even the lowest paid ones then he / she is a greedy fuck and i have no sympathy for them. tell us tom who is better able finacially to produce job opportunities in this country a person reaping his rewards for his genius and efforts or a society where those unwilling to produce notice that i did not say unable have the same income as those busting a gut. what percentage are the ones unwilling to produce. if they all made the same amount of money i would say the ones unwilling because they would be lazy and hire others to do what they should do for themselves - in reality this is a fantasy on your part. in the sociology studies i had one thing was made clear if you take away a persons incentive to be productive you destroy the person socially. he loses all reason or need to achieve anything. remember star trek was just gene rodenberrys socialist dream. lol exactly and having people kill themselves only to have their jobs outsourced or eliminated to keep the company stock prices high while the execs who did it receive huge bonuses at the same time does just as much to take a way a persons incentive as anything else. how much is enough for you to take how is it up to me i think what hes asking is how much do you think the rich should be forced to surrender to the government like i said before there is no easy answer but cutting taxes as you massivly increase expenses is just stupid and serves no purpose. you cant and thats my whole point. these flat tax cuts do nothing for the people that need it the most and everything for people that dont need it at all. the fuzzy math is a right wing thing like your unemployed percentages. the only fuzzy math ive seen is yours as usual. well budd some things never change such as your making statements with nothing to back them up. if the poor have more then theoretically they could use it to get out and find work but reality usually means they pay bills they been forced to ignore. so are you saying that the poor should be ignored. where do you draw that line perhaps at yourself the money should be directed toward a means for them to find work to pay their bills such as day care and low cost transportation. otoh the rich can use that percentage though there is no guarantee they will to create jobs. something the percent of returned income is insufficient to do in the poor classes. the fact is that they dont and with the current economic climate they actually costs jobs. why you ask well ill tell you. it seems that with the rich there is a competition for social standing and the ranking comes mainly from the amount of money that they have. to make more they tend to invest it to make more of it. the president hoped that they would with his tax cuts in order to create jobs. but two things happened that sort of changed this technology and the economic downturn. due to this economic downturn companies stock values and dividends dropped and that is not the way to attract investors. in order to attract these investors they need to increase profits and the easiest way to do this is to decrease costs and the easiest way to do that is reduce payroll. funny how the best way to attract investors is not to hire but to fire people. but then you might say that the work still needs to be done and this is where technology comes in. by automating and outsourcing due to technology they can decrease the number of workers and still get the job done and attract those investors with fists full of cash from their tax cuts but it really doesnt do much for the common man. then you get to add in the increased costs of living needed to pay for these cuts but that is a whole other story. handing out money to the poor does not create jobs. actually yes it does. handing out a huge sum of mony to a few people that dont need it does nothing for the economy or even for them. handing out usabe amounts to a large group of people creates a large demand for goods and services that need to be performed and that creaates jobs. ah . . . s

From : milesh

tbone wrote sure i do. where did i say differently. but as i asked miles ill ask you. do you think the head of a large company should make 50 100 sometimes even 1000 times more than his lower payed employees and then compalin because of taxes so you are saying that you feel he is making too much and therefore needs his taxes raised regardless of how much he is currently being taxed. taxes are based on how much someone makes not how much someone else makes. like i said before there is no easy answer but cutting taxes as you massivly increase expenses is just stupid and serves no purpose. raising taxes because you feel someone makes too much or makes more than someone else is absurd. keeping high taxes in a down economy is absurd. besides kerry isnt talking about raising taxes for the filthy evil greedy rich. he set the bar at only 200k. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote that is correct and the math proves it. the peopel that need the money the most get the least while the ones that dont need it at all get the most. get the most it is their money to begin with. the most from the tax cut is this all you can do is spin youre under the dilusion that its a priviledge to get to keep some of the money you earn rather than let the government take it. i do when there are things that need to be paid for to allow them to continue to make the money that they do and are then given huge discounts on the amunt it costs them to continue with their lifestyles a tax cut isnt giving it is a reduction in taking. no it is a reduction in the cost of living for the ones who need it the least that is then transferred to those that cannot afford to pay it. yet more twist and spin. i dont care how much you or anyone else makes but if you feel the need to be as greedy as many and i totally believe that you do then you need to pay your fair share and nothing more. oh but you do care how much people make. if they make too much then they are greedy and need to pay more. poor attempt at spin and just shows the validity of your argument. if they are paying themselves 50 or more times what they are paying their standard employees then yes they are making too much and the rest of us get to pay it. i asked once but ill ask again. what is mine or anyone elses fair share to pay how much should a rich person have to pay ill answer it after you answer my question you take a lot you pay a lot pure and simple. the wealthy already pay alot but you do not feel it is enough and want to take more for the simple reason that they are still rich so they can afford it. lol that is truly a matter of perspective and right wing spin. what is a lot to one person is pocket change to another. its not that i want it its that the country needs it to maintain its infrastructure. you mean oppression not infrastructure. really i didnt know that our roads schools environment and military are just forms of oppression. thanks for pointing that out. i dont want more taken away but giving it back when we need it the most is just retarded and so typical of this idiot of a president. huh clinton took more away and you are ok with that. people should be able to keep what they earn. many people made a shit load of money who didnt have it before under clinton even with his high taxes. the same cannot be said for bush. the only ones getting rich now are the ones that already are at the cost of the rest of us. how is it up to me you are the one saying the rich do not pay enough. so define enough. you have yet to do so. and you have yet to define the limit before someone is considerd greedy. like i want lol. sorry pinhead but the training that you claim that they need was cut by our idiot of a president to help pay for these tax cuts. no it wasnt. education expenses have doubled with bush over clinton. really lets see the numbers. btw i was talking about job training programs that were slashed by bush. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote the most from the tax cut is this all you can do is spin it is their money to begin with. you attempt to spin it to mean that a tax cut is some sort of gift given out. it is a reduction in peoples money that is being taken from them not a gift to them. poor attempt at spin and just shows the validity of your argument. if they are paying themselves 50 or more times what they are paying their standard employees then yes they are making too much and the rest of us get to pay it. too bad. then get off your ass and make more. instead you cry foul that someone makes more so you want even more than the already high taxes they pay to be taken from them. didnt you just reply no shit sherlock when i pointed out that what one person makes and pays in taxes is not relative to how much someone else makes and here you go right back on it again. there is no such thing as too much except in a communist society. and you have yet to define the limit before someone is considerd greedy. there is no limit. in this country people can make what their abilities allow them. who are you to tell me that i make too much and therefore are greedy you use emotions to compare what one person makes vs. another to define greed. thats absurd. really lets see the numbers. btw i was talking about job training programs that were slashed by bush. look up the numbers. education $s have doubled under bush from clinton. it is the liberal dominated organizations that distrubute those $s. whine to them if you do not like it. better yet do some homework and learn just who distributes these funds. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote only 200k lol. do you make more than that miles didnt you and jerry and gary just make the claim that a great life could be made on $25000 no you did but nice try on another lie. we simply said the national median income was set at $25000 for the 2004 year. the only one lying here is you jerry. you were the one saying that you could have a house as nice as mine cars as nice as mine and raise a family as easily as me on $25000. i said that claiming the creation of a bunch of new jobs at or above the median salary as a booming economy was a joke when the median salary was only $25000. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol could you spin any faster. do i think that he is making too much of course i do and so would anyone else with a functioning brain stem. in this country people are and should be able to make as much as their abilities lead them. hahahahahahaha now thats funny. its the liberal too much mentality that is absurd. no what is absurd is the right wing justification about abilities having anything to do with pay for many corporate execs. the liberal/socialist/communist idea of redistribution of wealth is not the way i for one want this country to go. lol me either and any way that you spin it that is not what i said. it isnt what built this country and it isnt what will keep it going. neither is the level of corporate greed and with the shrinking middle class it isnt whats keeping it going either. did i say that he needs his taxes raised no! bull. you most certainly did say so. lol now you are just lying. it has nothing to do with how much he makes just that expenses need to be paid. you support kerrys plan to raise taxes. but you follow like a puppet and call it a rollback. lol it is a rollback. the tax cuts were created with no way to pay for them. if we pay higher than now it is a tax hike. otherwise we will call bushs tax cuts simply a rollback of the tax hikes clinton gave us. funny how even with clintons tax hikes a much greater number of people upgraded their standard of liviing as compared to bush and his cuts. no shit sherlock but what does that have to do with the discussion at hand and btw you still didnt answer the question. alot. you whined that someone that makes alot more than someone else cant say diddly about their already high taxes going up further. i didnt say cant. i said shouldnt ad with the standard of living that they have they shouldnt. only 200k lol. do you make more than that miles oh so now 200k is considered evil and greedy and should be taxed accordingly that doesnt answer the question but the way you are whining says that you either do or hope to soon. btw i never said that 200k was either evil or greedy only that people in that tax bracket can afford it better than thoose who make much less. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote in this country people are and should be able to make as much as their abilities lead them. hahahahahahaha now thats funny. it is funny only to a radical lefty that believes it is ok to take as much as possible from anyone who they believe makes too much. can you say communism no what is absurd is the right wing justification about abilities having anything to do with pay for many corporate execs. a company can pay someone whatever they feel it is worth to them. you seem to have a problem with that because you make less. lol me either and any way that you spin it that is not what i said. thats the funny thing with far lefties. they are very socialist/communist in many ways but because it is not pc to think that way they deny who and what they are. neither is the level of corporate greed and with the shrinking middle class it isnt whats keeping it going either. high taxes wont help. lol now you are just lying. it has nothing to do with how much he makes just that expenses need to be paid. the rich already pay a high rate of taxes. your view is that if they still have some left then take more. that doesnt answer the question but the way you are whining says that you either do or hope to soon. btw i never said that 200k was either evil or greedy only that people in that tax bracket can afford it better than thoose who make much less. so kerry wants to raise taxes for anyone making over 200k for the simple reason that they can afford it. thats the most bs reason to raise taxes ever. .

From : jerry

tbone wrote no you did but nice try on another lie. we simply said the national median income was set at $25000 for the 2004 year. the only one lying here is you jerry. you were the one saying that you could have a house as nice as mine cars as nice as mine and raise a family as easily as me on $25000. i said that claiming the creation of a bunch of new jobs at or above the median salary as a booming economy was a joke when the median salary was only $25000. oh bullshit cant you tell the truth just for once. i clearly said depending on location and we were at the time talking about the midwest and certain states named. the fact is they can do it and you dont like it because it shoots down all the crap you have been spewing in this thread. btw as you should well know the median anything always leans to the high side figure which means the majority of income is below that and they seem to be doing very well no thinks to dimwits like yourself. jerry .

From : tbone

tbone wrote in this country people are and should be able to make as much as their abilities lead them. hahahahahahaha now thats funny. it is funny only to a radical lefty that believes it is ok to take as much as possible from anyone who they believe makes too much. can you say communism sure communism but what does that have to do with anything who said anything about taking away as much as possible from anyone. the only one crying about that is you. i dont recall seeing many millionaires or billionaires going broke during clintons terms due to taxes. no what is absurd is the right wing justification about abilities having anything to do with pay for many corporate execs. a company can pay someone whatever they feel it is worth to them. you seem to have a problem with that because you make less. lol the jokes really need to stop. you have no idea what i make. i do like the right wing spin however that a company is some magical separate entity that decides the value of its employees. the truth is that these companies are run and the decisions on salaries are made by the very people that make all the money iow they decide how much they should make regardless of what they are actually worth and that equates to greed and nothing more. lol me either and any way that you spin it that is not what i said. thats the funny thing with far lefties. they are very socialist/communist in many ways but because it is not pc to think that way they deny who and what they are. sure keep believing your own bs. the only ones that will are the rest of the radical right wing party. neither is the level of corporate greed and with the shrinking middle class it isnt whats keeping it going either. high taxes wont help. funny they seemed to work just fine during clintons terms. lol now you are just lying. it has nothing to do with how much he makes just that expenses need to be paid. the rich already pay a high rate of taxes. your view is that if they still have some left then take more. more bs. i do find it funny that you right wing morons have no problem telling people that freedom isnt free when it comes to loved ones of theirs being killed or seriously wounded in wars regardless of their justification but god forbid someone touch your wallet. in this country the only real freedom comes from money. the more money you have the more freedom you have and like you say freedom isnt free. that doesnt answer the question but the way you are whining says that you either do or hope to soon. btw i never said that 200k was either evil or greedy only that people in that tax bracket can afford it better than thoose who make much less. so kerry wants to raise taxes for anyone making over 200k for the simple reason that they can afford it. thats the most bs reason to raise taxes ever. now you are just acting like a retard. kerry needs to raise taxed to help erase the massive deficit that bush is creating and is setting the lower limit on people that make over $200000 because they are the ones that can most afford it. like you like to say freedom isnt free. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote the most from the tax cut is this all you can do is spin it is their money to begin with. you attempt to spin it to mean that a tax cut is some sort of gift given out. it is a reduction in peoples money that is being taken from them not a gift to them. it is a gift given out to the rich. like you like to say freedom isnt free and the taxes that people pay is part of the cost of having that freedom. when you give irresponsible tax cuts you are giving freedom to the rich at the cost of the poor and that sounds like a gift to me. poor attempt at spin and just shows the validity of your argument. if they are paying themselves 50 or more times what they are paying their standard employees then yes they are making too much and the rest of us get to pay it. too bad. then get off your ass and make more. lol as if it were really that simple. if you believe that then you really are the fool that i think you are. i guess that buy your standards budd mac denny roy and most of the group are all slackers and bums since none of them are rich and all it takes according to you is to work a little harder. instead you cry foul that someone makes more so you want even more than the already high taxes they pay to be taken from them. lol keep spinning. i didnt say anything like that. i did say that i have no sympathy for them and why should i. didnt you just reply no shit sherlock when i pointed out that what one person makes and pays in taxes is not relative to how much someone else makes that is correct. and here you go right back on it again. i am right back on nothing. bills to run this country need to be paid and who better to do it then the ones that are getting the most from this country and will be effected the least by paying them. there is no such thing as too much except in a communist society. once again you show your true ignorance. and you have yet to define the limit before someone is considerd greedy. there is no limit. ah as i thought you are just greedy as the rest of them. where exactly does this money come from in this country people can make what their abilities allow them. hahahaha like that has anything to do with it unless you count greed dishonesty conceit knowing the right people and concern about nothing but yourself as abilities. who am i kidding that is the definition of the right wing. who are you to tell me that i make too much and therefore are greedy you use emotions to compare what one person makes vs. another to define greed. thats absurd. ok then what is your definition of greed and by what standard do you determine anothers or even your own worth really lets see the numbers. btw i was talking about job training programs that were slashed by bush. look up the numbers. education $s have doubled under bush from clinton. where did the money get distributed to and what about the job training that dissapeared it is the liberal dominated organizations that distrubute those $s. really who are they and why are they just liberal organizationa if the right wing is so concerned about education whine to them if you do not like it. better yet do some homework and learn just who distributes these funds. why should i you are making the claim back it up. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : mgg

btw i never said that 200k was either evil or greedy only that people in that tax bracket can afford it better than thoose who make much less. thats all relative. the wealthy spend more therefore need more its a never ending circle. if they lived in a trailer and ate beans every night then yes they can afford to pay much more in taxes. the fact is that they buy big homes and big cars...go to expensive retaurants have maids ect etc. thats why im in favor of a national sales tax as opposed to an income tax. the more you spend the more you pay...period. no exceptions no loopholes no tax attorneys working on tax dodges g. trust me the very wealthy do not pay their fair share in taxes with all the tax shelters loopholes and outright cheating. i personally know a guy not a friend that avoided paying taxes on over $6 million two years ago and was proud of it! hes a millionaire many times over but too much is not enough for some people. i we pick up the tab for that cheating. are the tipster rewards paid by the irs taxable i dont know but ill let you know ;- --mike tbone wrote lol could you spin any faster. do i think that he is making too much of course i do and so would anyone else with a functioning brain stem. in this country people are and should be able to make as much as their abilities lead them. hahahahahahaha now thats funny. its the liberal too much mentality that is absurd. no what is absurd is the right wing justification about abilities having anything to do with pay for many corporate execs. the liberal/socialist/communist idea of redistribution of wealth is not the way i for one want this country to go. lol me either and any way that you spin it that is not what i said. it isnt what built this country and it isnt what will keep it going. neither is the level of corporate greed and with the shrinking middle class it isnt whats keeping it going either. did i say that he needs his taxes raised no! bull. you most certainly did say so. lol now you are just lying. it has nothing to do with how much he makes just that expenses need to be paid. you support kerrys plan to raise taxes. but you follow like a puppet and call it a rollback. lol it is a rollback. the tax cuts were created with no way to pay for them. if we pay higher than now it is a tax hike. otherwise we will call bushs tax cuts simply a rollback of the tax hikes clinton gave us. funny how even with clintons tax hikes a much greater number of people upgraded their standard of liviing as compared to bush and his cuts. no shit sherlock but what does that have to do with the discussion at hand and btw you still didnt answer the question. alot. you whined that someone that makes alot more than someone else cant say diddly about their already high taxes going up further. i didnt say cant. i said shouldnt ad with the standard of living that they have they shouldnt. only 200k lol. do you make more than that miles oh so now 200k is considered evil and greedy and should be taxed accordingly that doesnt answer the question but the way you are whining says that you either do or hope to soon. btw i never said that 200k was either evil or greedy only that people in that tax bracket can afford it better than thoose who make much less. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote they also get the most but i guess that is irrelevent as well. the funny thing is that they can afford to pay more with no effect to thier lifestyles so in a way it is irrelevent. so we should take more of their money from them simply because they have it and you want it you people see the wealthy as a bottomless moneypit. you need more money for something just take it from the rich. tell me boner where do you set the limit how much should the rich be able to make how much taxes should they pay ask him at what point he should stop making more money so he doesnt get forced to receive one of those nasty old tax cuts for the rich............. whats the matter you afraid to do it ok at what point will you make too much money and therefore be forced to accept one of thoser tax cuts for the rich i dont understand this question. why would i be forced to accept a tax cut if you are asking me to set a salary limit there are just to many variables to answer that. i would say that 50 or more times more than you office personnel the ones that actually do the work is way to high and is simply greedy. lets have a dollar figure................if you want to have any credibility you will set a figure since you are the one constantly harping on this point only an idiot would set a figure without all of the possible variables known and you didnt give me any at all. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote no you did but nice try on another lie. we simply said the national median income was set at $25000 for the 2004 year. the only one lying here is you jerry. you were the one saying that you could have a house as nice as mine cars as nice as mine and raise a family as easily as me on $25000. i said that claiming the creation of a bunch of new jobs at or above the median salary as a booming economy was a joke when the median salary was only $25000. oh bullshit cant you tell the truth just for once. cant you keep your bs straight for more than one post in a row. i clearly said depending on location and we were at the time talking about the midwest and certain states named. but the median salary is not just for the midwest but the whole nation and you could not afford to live on it just about anywhere else. the fact is they can do it and you dont like it because it shoots down all the crap you have been spewing in this thread. lol it does no such thing. in fact it does prove another point of mine however. the point being that freedom in this country is money and freedom isnt free. what do i mean i mean that at your great median income you do not have the freedom to live anywhere in this great country that you desire and are forced to the midwest. since those that have more money have more freedoms that they granted unto themselves and freedom isnt free as you right wingers love to say the ones with the most freedom should pay the most for it. btw as you should well know the median anything always leans to the high side figure which means the majority of income is below that and they seem to be doing very well really do you know the definition of median as it relates here it all depends on how it was calculated and there are many ways and i doubt that they calculated it to the high side. no thinks to dimwits like yourself. hahahahahahahaha what an idiot. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : roy

just drop the obvious my friend. i had to keep it simple so a liberal could figure it out ya know. vbg oh.....thats gonna leave a mark..lol glad to see you around man...pop a mail my way...lost a few in a hdwipe notlong ago... the cylinder piston and on some engines the cam lobes are lubed by oil thrown off the rod bearings as the crank spins. its not efficient or pretty but it does do the job. budd i have a 97 ram 1500 p/u. i am in the process of rebuilting the engine. and i have a question. how does the oil get up to the cylinder wall and the piston i dont see any oil hole except the one in the crank journal but the rod bearing does not have any hole in it to let the oil up the rod or anything as such... its really got me baffled... can anyone help me understand this

From : miles

tbone wrote i dont understand this question. why would i be forced to accept a tax cut if you are asking me to set a salary limit there are just to many variables to answer that. i would say that 50 or more times more than you office personnel the ones that actually do the work is way to high and is simply greedy. here ya go again comparing what someone earns to what someone else earns as a method to define too much. you seem to believe that someones salary should be based on what someone else makes rather than on the jobs skills and societies demand for those skills. only an idiot would set a figure without all of the possible variables known and you didnt give me any at all. only an idiot would say someone makes too much simply because they make more than someone else. .

From : miles

tbone wrote it is a gift given out to the rich. hmm..take something from someone and then give it back as a gift only in the warped radical left world. when you give irresponsible tax cuts you really think that holding taxes high during a down economy is being responsible and a good thing lol as if it were really that simple. if you believe that then you really are the fool that i think you are. i guess that buy your standards budd mac denny roy and most of the group are all slackers and bums since none of them are rich and all it takes according to you is to work a little harder. i have more than some and less than others. i do not whine about someone who makes more than me and say they must pay even more taxes than they already do. lol keep spinning. i didnt say anything like that. i did say that i have no sympathy for them and why should i. they are not asking for sympathy from you. not taxing the crap out of someone because you feel they make too much isnt being sympathetic. so far your main argument for taxing the crap out of someone has been they make too much greedy or they have plenty left. the fact is that their tax rates are already higher than everyone elses. you refuse to state how high the limit should be. only that since they are still rich its ok for kerry to raise them further. i am right back on nothing. bills to run this country need to be paid and who better to do it then the ones that are getting the most from this country and will be effected the least by paying them. they already do pay the highest rates of anyone. why do you refuse to state what a responable limit should be once again you show your true ignorance. i see. so you do feel there is a point at which someone is making too much. please tell us all what that point is. youve danced all over whining about those making too much but refuse to state what that figure is. all you do is spin against what someone else makes even though you say no shit sherlock when it is pointed out that the comparison is irrelevant. ah as i thought you are just greedy as the rest of them. where exactly does this money come from so people should not be able to make money because the money comes from people making less can you say communism hahahaha like that has anything to do with it unless you count greed dishonesty conceit knowing the right people and concern about nothing but yourself as abilities. now here is a classic example of the radical far left mentality. the idea that anyone who is very successfull in their life is greedy dishonest conceited or knew the right people. while some people are corrupt and greedy this is the very point that leads you way to the left and is where you are very wrong. most wealthy people are decent and hard working not greedy and evil as you want to believe. ok then what is your definition of greed and by what standard do you determine anothers or even your own worth i do not believe greed can be measured by the amount that someone earns. i also do not determine my own worth by looking at what others have. i only look at what i have. i do not look at someone else who makes more than i and say they make too much. why should i you are making the claim back it up. not so. you made the claim that more money should go to education. it is a fact that education $s have doubled under bush. so i am asking you to tell me how much more money should go to education you also need to learn how this money is distributed and by whom. possibly that is an area where education is lacking. .

From : budd cochran

i dont care how much you or anyone else makes but if you feel the need to be as greedy . . . well tom. it appears actually that anyone that makes more than you is greedy and therefore automatically a evil person. very socialistic of you. lol that is just spin on your part here since you have no idea how much i make or am worth. oh i know your worth and you would need $5000 taped to your forehead to make you worth tossing in a dumpster but we digress. no spin tom just my observation of what you imply in your phrasing. you imply a bagperson with a stash of $120000 in their shopping cart is evil becuse your shopping cart has only trash in it. a point of clarification please. do you feel that a person should be able to reap the rewards according to their efforts or not sure i do. where did i say differently. but as i asked miles ill ask you. do you think the head of a large company should make 50 100 sometimes even 1000 times more than his lower payed employees and then compalin because of taxes then why the double standard if you as the bible says are a workman worthy of your meat daily wages then why is an executive keeping a company running so the shareholders make money automatically not worthy double standard tom. so very liberal of you. there is no simple answer to that. but i have said and will say that when someone makes 50 to 100 times that of his employees even the lowest paid ones then he / she is a greedy fuck and i have no sympathy for them. tell us tom who is better able finacially to produce job opportunities in this country a person reaping his rewards for his genius and efforts or a society where those unwilling to produce notice that i did not say unable have the same income as those busting a gut. what percentage are the ones unwilling to produce. if they all made the same amount of money i would say the ones unwilling because they would be lazy and hire others to do what they should do for themselves - in reality this is a fantasy on your part. no tom. reality bites. if you were given by the government all the food you needed clothing shelter etc. you needed would you work or goof off in the sociology studies i had one thing was made clear if you take away a persons incentive to be productive you destroy the person socially. he loses all reason or need to achieve anything. remember star trek was just gene rodenberrys socialist dream. lol exactly and having people kill themselves only to have their jobs outsourced or eliminated to keep the company stock prices high while the execs who did it receive huge bonuses at the same time does just as much to take a way a persons incentive as anything else. and why are those jobs being outsourced why are manufacturers looking for lower costs your wonderful liberal unions. union a wants more for the employees so it negotiates with threats of strike an increase in wages benefits etc. from employer a+. a+ has to raise its prices to cover those costs and maintain a profit so they can afford to expand hire more reduce unemployment and thereby the need for social programs. union b sees a is getting more so it does the same at its next contract talks and the cycle repeats. finally it gets to where youre paying 10 times as much for a truck car house or etc as you were and the employers are sending work out of country in order to stay in business. am i anti-union yes especially when the unions are going to cause job losses. how much is enough for you to take how is it up to me i think what hes asking is how much do you think the rich should be forced to surrender to the government like i said before there is no easy answer but cutting taxes as you massivly increase expenses is just stupid and serves no purpose. ah i see. . . its ok for a liberal government to claim a surplus when the money should have been applied to the deficit but its not ok for a government to try and help create jobs by freeing up money for those that have the wherewithal to create jobs. you cant and thats my whole point. these flat tax cuts do nothing for the people that need it the most and everything for people that dont need it at all. the fuzzy math is a right wing thing like your unemployed percentages. the only fuzzy math ive seen is yours as usual. well budd some things never change such as your making statements with nothing to back them up. lol and when will you back up your claims if the poor have more then theoretically they could use it to get out and find work but reality usually means they pay bills they been forced to ignore. so are you saying that the poor should be ignored. where do you draw that line perhaps at yourself the money should be directed toward a means for them to find work to pay their bills such as day care and low cost transportation. what you misread deliberately as usual. but

From : roy

i dont care how much you or anyone else makes but if you feel the need to be as greedy . . . well tom. it appears actually that anyone that makes more than you is greedy and therefore automatically a evil person. very socialistic of you. lol that is just spin on your part here since you have no idea how much i make or am worth. oh i know your worth and you would need $5000 taped to your forehead to make you worth tossing in a dumpster but we digress. no spin tom just my observation of what you imply in your phrasing. you imply a bagperson with a stash of $120000 in their shopping cart is evil becuse your shopping cart has only trash in it. a point of clarification please. do you feel that a person should be able to reap the rewards according to their efforts or not sure i do. where did i say differently. but as i asked miles ill ask you. do you think the head of a large company should make 50 100 sometimes even 1000 times more than his lower payed employees and then compalin because of taxes then why the double standard if you as the bible says are a workman worthy of your meat daily wages then why is an executive keeping a company running so the shareholders make money automatically not worthy double standard tom. so very liberal of you. there is no simple answer to that. but i have said and will say that when someone makes 50 to 100 times that of his employees even the lowest paid ones then he / she is a greedy fuck and i have no sympathy for them. tell us tom who is better able finacially to produce job opportunities in this country a person reaping his rewards for his genius and efforts or a society where those unwilling to produce notice that i did not say unable have the same income as those busting a gut. what percentage are the ones unwilling to produce. if they all made the same amount of money i would say the ones unwilling because they would be lazy and hire others to do what they should do for themselves - in reality this is a fantasy on your part. no tom. reality bites. if you were given by the government all the food you needed clothing shelter etc. you needed would you work or goof off in the sociology studies i had one thing was made clear if you take away a persons incentive to be productive you destroy the person socially. he loses all reason or need to achieve anything. remember star trek was just gene rodenberrys socialist dream. lol exactly and having people kill themselves only to have their jobs outsourced or eliminated to keep the company stock prices high while the execs who did it receive huge bonuses at the same time does just as much to take a way a persons incentive as anything else. and why are those jobs being outsourced why are manufacturers looking for lower costs your wonderful liberal unions. union a wants more for the employees so it negotiates with threats of strike an increase in wages benefits etc. from employer a+. a+ has to raise its prices to cover those costs and maintain a profit so they can afford to expand hire more reduce unemployment and thereby the need for social programs. union b sees a is getting more so it does the same at its next contract talks and the cycle repeats. finally it gets to where youre paying 10 times as much for a truck car house or etc as you were and the employers are sending work out of country in order to stay in business. am i anti-union yes especially when the unions are going to cause job losses. curious here. how do you think employers happen to offer health benefits and other things like paid vacations because they are caring nice people how do you think the 40 hour work week came into being the list goes on and on. unions or the threat of unions sort of keep companies in check. think for a minute a non union painter makes say $10@hr. a union painter fought and perhaps struck and makes $13@hr. if the union painter hadnt pehaps he would make $10@hr and the non union guy $7@hr. or perhaps there was no union and they both make $5@hr think about it. does every company need a union no. there are good unions and some horrible ones just like companies. roy .

From : budd cochran

dont you see it they take away all your money then give you back just enough to keep you oppressed under them and forced to turn to the government for everything. subtle aint it budd tbone wrote it is a gift given out to the rich. hmm..take something from someone and then give it back as a gift only in the warped radical left world. when you give irresponsible tax cuts you really think that holding taxes high during a down economy is being responsible and a good thing lol as if it were really that simple. if you believe that then you really are the fool that i think you are. i guess that buy your standards budd mac denny roy and most of the group are all slackers and bums since none of them are rich and all it takes according to you is to work a little harder. i have more than some and less than others. i do not whine about someone who makes more than me and say they must pay even more taxes than they already do. lol keep spinning. i didnt say anything like that. i did say that i have no sympathy for them and why should i. they are not asking for sympathy from you. not taxing the crap out of someone because you feel they make too much isnt being sympathetic. so far your main argument for taxing the crap out of someone has been they make too much greedy or they have plenty left. the fact is that their tax rates are already higher than everyone elses. you refuse to state how high the limit should be. only that since they are still rich its ok for kerry to raise them further. i am right back on nothing. bills to run this country need to be paid and who better to do it then the ones that are getting the most from this country and will be effected the least by paying them. they already do pay the highest rates of anyone. why do you refuse to state what a responable limit should be once again you show your true ignorance. i see. so you do feel there is a point at which someone is making too much. please tell us all what that point is. youve danced all over whining about those making too much but refuse to state what that figure is. all you do is spin against what someone else makes even though you say no shit sherlock when it is pointed out that the comparison is irrelevant. ah as i thought you are just greedy as the rest of them. where exactly does this money come from so people should not be able to make money because the money comes from people making less can you say communism hahahaha like that has anything to do with it unless you count greed dishonesty conceit knowing the right people and concern about nothing but yourself as abilities. now here is a classic example of the radical far left mentality. the idea that anyone who is very successfull in their life is greedy dishonest conceited or knew the right people. while some people are corrupt and greedy this is the very point that leads you way to the left and is where you are very wrong. most wealthy people are decent and hard working not greedy and evil as you want to believe. ok then what is your definition of greed and by what standard do you determine anothers or even your own worth i do not believe greed can be measured by the amount that someone earns. i also do not determine my own worth by looking at what others have. i only look at what i have. i do not look at someone else who makes more than i and say they make too much. why should i you are making the claim back it up. not so. you made the claim that more money should go to education. it is a fact that education $s have doubled under bush. so i am asking you to tell me how much more money should go to education you also need to learn how this money is distributed and by whom. possibly that is an area where education is lacking. .

From : milesh

tbone wrote how is this a double standard. if as you say are a workman worthy of your meat daily wages are you saying that an exectutive who probably got the job through family and connections is worth 50 100 or maybe 1000 times more than you there ya go again defining what someone is worth based on what someone else makes even though you agreed its no shit sherlock that defining what is too much based on that is absurd. lol you are so brainwashed. why is it that an executive is allowed to make whatever they want but the common working man is not. supply and demand. along with the fact that someone who risks and invests large amounts of work and their own money does in fact deserve more than someone who does not. now are you going to tell me that if i invest millions of my own money into a new company and become successfull that my fat paycheck is too much because there are workers making less why do you think that those unions were created in the first place perhaps because while the company owners and execs were living the life of luxury the workers at those factories were working 12 hour a day most of those execs got where they are by working 60-80 hour weeks for many years even if you do not believe that. there will always be poor people. what you seem to think is that it is unfair for someone to make more than someone else. to you life just isnt fair when there are wealthy people and poor people in the same society. liberal radicals such as yourself have tried for decades to bring down the top as a way to help the bottom. it has never ever worked yet you keep trying. can you say communism boner lol are you for real what a complete load of right wing shit. what union a wants is what its members want a living wage for its members. living wage why should i be forced to pay you $30 for a $10 job why is it ok for labor to unionize to force above market labor salaries but it is illegal for corporations to form their own unions to set high goods prices and low wages for an industry market supply and demand should do both not corrupt organizations formed on either side. no different than anything else in the world. its called competition and it sets the cost of goods as well as salaries bingo!! however you do not want what you preach. competition does set cost of goods and salaries. unions disrupt the system of supply and demand that causes that. .

From : roy

curious here. how do you think employers happen to offer health benefits and other things like paid vacations because they are caring nice people how do you think the 40 hour work week came into being the list goes on and on. unions or the threat of unions sort of keep companies in check. think for a minute a non union painter makes say $10@hr. a union painter fought and perhaps struck and makes $13@hr. if the union painter hadnt pehaps he would make $10@hr and the non union guy $7@hr. or perhaps there was no union and they both make $5@hr think about it. does every company need a union no. there are good unions and some horrible ones just like companies. roy imho with current laws in effect and enforceable unions are often a dinosaur. at one time yes they were greatly needed but since the mid 60s with government awareness and legislation beginning about health issues work conditions minimum wage etc. all theyve done is added to the inflation spiral. hope you are not talking about osha fra or any other federal enforcement agency. they are toothless imo. they fine the hell out of a company big headlines then a couple of months later the fines are reduced to a slap on the wrist. i spent 10 years in a union shop in the automotive industry. we walked out on two strikes and only the union management got strike pay. our contract packages caused gm ford chrysler amc to begin sourcing elsewhere for exhaust system parts because the companys cost to them went up. this was in the late 60s and early 70s. by my tenth year the company was losing ground and the union would not work with them. at one point in 75 arvin industries inc was considering closing its franklin and greenwood in plants if a deal with another manufacturer as a an out-source fell thru. that would have put about 3500 people in two midsize cities out of work. when i joined the union one of their claims was a willingness to work with management for the benefit of the communities. it was an outright lie. ive met over the years many persons from other unions that have said the same about their unions but would rather support the union ideals than admit there was a problem caused by the union. budd a union is made up of individuals they decide who leads the union. in other words you get the representation you deserve. ive always found that you get out of it what you put into it. at least that seems to hold true in my industry. roy .

From : tbone

roy wrote curious here. how do you think employers happen to offer health benefits and other things like paid vacations because they are caring nice people no. they do so to compete in a free market. labor follows supply and demand. why would you work for me for $10 if someone else will pay you $20 for the same job and why would anyone pay someone $20 when they can make people desperate enough to work for $10. hell its happening today with people being regularly asked told to work ot for no pay under the fear of being replaced. but...the opposite holds true as well. why should i pay you $20 when market demand says the job is worth only $10 and why should a company executive make 300000 a year plus perks and stock options while the average worker at the same company makes 30000. and dont give me that bs about risk and investment since most of them have done neither. case in point. why should a person who puts saran wrap on meats at a grocery store make $18/hr per meat packers union when unions become so powerfull they are able to gain benifits above market value they do us all harm. somebody has to pay those high benifits. the same can be said for high paid execs and their unof

From : milesh

roy wrote curious here. how do you think employers happen to offer health benefits and other things like paid vacations because they are caring nice people no. they do so to compete in a free market. labor follows supply and demand. why would you work for me for $10 if someone else will pay you $20 for the same job but...the opposite holds true as well. why should i pay you $20 when market demand says the job is worth only $10 case in point. why should a person who puts saran wrap on meats at a grocery store make $18/hr per meat packers union when unions become so powerfull they are able to gain benifits above market value they do us all harm. somebody has to pay those high benifits. lets look at it another way. what would happen if we set the minimum wage to $30/hr. do you think for one minute that everyone would instantly be fairly well off market supply and demand must dicate the value of labor. does every company need a union no. there are good unions and some horrible ones just like companies. most unions today do not need to exist and cause more harm than good. a corrupt greedy union is far more powerfull than a corrupt greedy corporation. why because unions can legally join forces and set the bar for an industry as a whole. corporations can not legally join forces. .

From : budd cochran

curious here. how do you think employers happen to offer health benefits and other things like paid vacations because they are caring nice people how do you think the 40 hour work week came into being the list goes on and on. unions or the threat of unions sort of keep companies in check. think for a minute a non union painter makes say $10@hr. a union painter fought and perhaps struck and makes $13@hr. if the union painter hadnt pehaps he would make $10@hr and the non union guy $7@hr. or perhaps there was no union and they both make $5@hr think about it. does every company need a union no. there are good unions and some horrible ones just like companies. roy imho with current laws in effect and enforceable unions are often a dinosaur. at one time yes they were greatly needed but since the mid 60s with government awareness and legislation beginning about health issues work conditions minimum wage etc. all theyve done is added to the inflation spiral. i spent 10 years in a union shop in the automotive industry. we walked out on two strikes and only the union management got strike pay. our contract packages caused gm ford chrysler amc to begin sourcing elsewhere for exhaust system parts because the companys cost to them went up. this was in the late 60s and early 70s. by my tenth year the company was losing ground and the union would not work with them. at one point in 75 arvin industries inc was considering closing its franklin and greenwood in plants if a deal with another manufacturer as a an out-source fell thru. that would have put about 3500 people in two midsize cities out of work. when i joined the union one of their claims was a willingness to work with management for the benefit of the communities. it was an outright lie. ive met over the years many persons from other unions that have said the same about their unions but would rather support the union ideals than admit there was a problem caused by the union. budd .

From : tbone

you really make me laugh budd. that has never happened and in fact the funny thing is quite the opposite is happening and has been happening to you and you are so brainwashed that you cant even see it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving dont you see it they take away all your money then give you back just enough to keep you oppressed under them and forced to turn to the government for everything. subtle aint it budd .

From : budd cochran

tbone wrote lol could you spin any faster. do i think that he is making too much of course i do and so would anyone else with a functioning brain stem. in this country people are and should be able to make as much as their abilities lead them. hahahahahahaha now thats funny. except when its you that should be paid according to your abilities ... psst! tom!! maybe youre the someone else thats making too much to if youll pardon the expression someone else. didya ever think of that its the liberal too much mentality that is absurd. no what is absurd is the right wing justification about abilities having anything to do with pay for many corporate execs. so henry ford should not have been paid according to his abilities or alex bell george westinghouse wilber and orville tom bonini who makes infinitely more than the bugs in his house gawd!!! are blind to truth or what the liberal/socialist/communist idea of redistribution of wealth is not the way i for one want this country to go. lol me either and any way that you spin it that is not what i said. yes it is just in politically correct liberal rhetoric instead of truthfulness. it isnt what built this country and it isnt what will keep it going. neither is the level of corporate greed and with the shrinking middle class it isnt whats keeping it going either. tell me something tom. what group of businesses handle 80 - 90 percent of the business cash flow in america did i say that he needs his taxes raised no! bull. you most certainly did say so. lol now you are just lying. it has nothing to do with how much he makes just that expenses need to be paid. yep and thats why businesses need a maintained profit margin. you support kerrys plan to raise taxes. but you follow like a puppet and call it a rollback. lol it is a rollback. the tax cuts were created with no way to pay for them. now whs tossing terminology around roll-back does kerry think the us will be his private wal-mart for four years if we pay higher than now it is a tax hike. otherwise we will call bushs tax cuts simply a rollback of the tax hikes clinton gave us. funny how even with clintons tax hikes a much greater number of people upgraded their standard of liviing as compared to bush and his cuts. who upgraded i never saw any of it. not before i retired or since. no shit sherlock but what does that have to do with the discussion at hand and btw you still didnt answer the question. alot. you whined that someone that makes alot more than someone else cant say diddly about their already high taxes going up further. i didnt say cant. i said shouldnt ad with the standard of living that they have they shouldnt. right. tax them to the max 100% and then put them in the poverty brackets. .. . would you accept that only 200k lol. do you make more than that miles oh so now 200k is considered evil and greedy and should be taxed accordingly that doesnt answer the question but the way you are whining says that you either do or hope to soon. btw i never said that 200k was either evil or greedy only that people in that tax bracket can afford it better than thoose who make much less. since you believe they can afford it then you must not be in that bracket or wed hear you whining about it. fyi i have a sister and brother-in-law that have retired in that bracket and they dont whine as you claim they should. never have but then they earned their money with careful investments hard work and a thrifty lifestyle. do they owe me any of it no i didnt earn it. if you ran a race and came in third but the judges said everyone came in first and wins the prize would you feel the fourth thru twentieth finishers were rightly awarded do you think you deserver the same award as the guy that really came in first do you think the 1st place finisher will feel he should try as hard as he did the next time how about the 21st place guy that drove his car to the finish line a week later rediculous no more than what your liberal idols propose. .

From : tbone

i dont care how much you or anyone else makes but if you feel the need to be as greedy . . . well tom. it appears actually that anyone that makes more than you is greedy and therefore automatically a evil person. very socialistic of you. lol that is just spin on your part here since you have no idea how much i make or am worth. oh i know your worth and you would need $5000 taped to your forehead to make you worth tossing in a dumpster but we digress. as i expected the hate and bitterness continues within you. no spin tom just my observation of what you imply in your phrasing. you imply a bagperson with a stash of $120000 in their shopping cart is evil becuse your shopping cart has only trash in it. lol only in your fantasy world. a point of clarification please. do you feel that a person should be able to reap the rewards according to their efforts or not sure i do. where did i say differently. but as i asked miles ill ask you. do you think the head of a large company should make 50 100 sometimes even 1000 times more than his lower payed employees and then compalin because of taxes then why the double standard if you as the bible says are a workman worthy of your meat daily wages then why is an executive keeping a company running so the shareholders make money automatically not worthy double standard tom. so very liberal of you. how is this a double standard. if as you say are a workman worthy of your meat daily wages are you saying that an exectutive who probably got the job through family and connections is worth 50 100 or maybe 1000 times more than you there is no simple answer to that. but i have said and will say that when someone makes 50 to 100 times that of his employees even the lowest paid ones then he / she is a greedy fuck and i have no sympathy for them. tell us tom who is better able finacially to produce job opportunities in this country a person reaping his rewards for his genius and efforts or a society where those unwilling to produce notice that i did not say unable have the same income as those busting a gut. what percentage are the ones unwilling to produce. if they all made the same amount of money i would say the ones unwilling because they would be lazy and hire others to do what they should do for themselves - in reality this is a fantasy on your part. no tom. reality bites. if you were given by the government all the food you needed clothing shelter etc. you needed would you work or goof off that would depend on how ambitious i am now doesnt it. in the sociology studies i had one thing was made clear if you take away a persons incentive to be productive you destroy the person socially. he loses all reason or need to achieve anything. remember star trek was just gene rodenberrys socialist dream. lol exactly and having people kill themselves only to have their jobs outsourced or eliminated to keep the company stock prices high while the execs who did it receive huge bonuses at the same time does just as much to take a way a persons incentive as anything else. and why are those jobs being outsourced why are manufacturers looking for lower costs your wonderful liberal unions. lol you are so brainwashed. why is it that an executive is allowed to make whatever they want but the common working man is not. why do you think that those unions were created in the first place perhaps because while the company owners and execs were living the life of luxury the workers at those factories were working 12 hour a day 6 day work weeks and still didnt make enough to feed and cloth their families never mind a few luxury items. i guess that your father never told you about those times. union a wants more for the employees so it negotiates with threats of strike an increase in wages benefits etc. from employer a+. a+ has to raise its prices to cover those costs and maintain a profit so they can afford to expand hire more reduce unemployment and thereby the need for social programs. lol are you for real what a complete load of right wing shit. what union a wants is what its members want a living wage for its members. employer a wants to maximize profits so that the people running the comapny can get large pay increases and huge bonuses and could give a rats ass about unemployment or social programs. actually a high unemployment rate is a good thing for them as it reduces the amount they have to pay new hires as evident by the $25000 median salary that miles and jerry brag about. union b sees a is getting more so it does the same at its next contract talks and the cycle repeats. finally it gets to where youre paying 10 times as much for a truck car house or etc as you were and the employers are sending work out of country in order to stay in business. no different than anything else in the world. its called competition an

From : tbone

tbone wrote how is this a double standard. if as you say are a workman worthy of your meat daily wages are you saying that an exectutive who probably got the job through family and connections is worth 50 100 or maybe 1000 times more than you there ya go again defining what someone is worth based on what someone else makes even though you agreed its no shit sherlock that defining what is too much based on that is absurd. and that is exactly what you are doing only you are trying to hide it behind market value. lol you are so brainwashed. why is it that an executive is allowed to make whatever they want but the common working man is not. supply and demand. more complete bulshit. the fact is that there is a huge supply of people capable of doing those jobs and little demand for it and yet they still make 50 and more times the amount of the lower employees. along with the fact that someone who risks and invests large amounts of work and their own money does in fact deserve more than someone who does not. yet more bullshit and distortions. sure they do but the question still exists how much more now are you going to tell me that if i invest millions of my own money into a new company and become successfull that my fat paycheck is too much because there are workers making less its not a matter of workers making less since that is expected its how much less. does an initial investment that was long paid back give you an endless permit to oppress your workers with salaries 50 or more times less than yours even though they are the ones doing the actual work many of the highest paid execs have made no investment into the company and just work for them. why do you think that those unions were created in the first place perhaps because while the company owners and execs were living the life of luxury the workers at those factories were working 12 hour a day most of those execs got where they are by working 60-80 hour weeks for many years even if you do not believe that. so what unless they are working 50 or more times as long or as hard where is the justification there will always be poor people. what you seem to think is that it is unfair for someone to make more than someone else. lol i never said that even though you keep trying to spin it that way. to you life just isnt fair when there are wealthy people and poor people in the same society. once again another spin and another lie. that is the way it is in a society but you seem to think that it doesnt matter how much an exec makes just make sure that the standard worker is kept oppressed by your bullshit supply and demand. liberal radicals such as yourself have tried for decades to bring down the top as a way to help the bottom. it has never ever worked yet you keep trying. can you say communism boner can you say paranoid pinhead. i dont care how much you or anyone else makes but when people like you whine about paying too much in taxes perhaps its because you pay yourself to much in unearned salary. lol are you for real what a complete load of right wing shit. what union a wants is what its members want a living wage for its members. living wage why should i be forced to pay you $30 for a $10 job and as you like to say who the fuck are you to put a price on that job or any job for that matter especially when you just bitched at me for doing it. oh i see when someone puts a limit on your type of job its a no-no but when limits are placed on lower level jobs by your opinion thats perfectly acceptable. sorry miles its either one side of the argument or the other not whichever side suits you at the time. why is it ok for labor to unionize to force above market labor salaries and who sets the market salary why the management and who sets the management salary...oh my god the management. gee could there possibly be a conflict of interest there. market supply and demand should do both not corrupt organizations formed on either side. but it doesnt happen that way. perhaps you should pick up a history book and see what actually created the unions to begin with. if you think that the greed and corruption that lead to their birth has dissapeared you are an idiot. no different than anything else in the world. its called competition and it sets the cost of goods as well as salaries bingo!! however you do not want what you preach. competition does set cost of goods and salaries. too bad that has no effect when it comes to upper executive salaries. they pay themselves what they want to and remain profitable by cutting the wages of those beneath them. unions disrupt the system of supply and demand that causes that. complete bullshit. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote i dont understand this question. why would i be forced to accept a tax cut if you are asking me to set a salary limit there are just to many variables to answer that. i would say that 50 or more times more than you office personnel the ones that actually do the work is way to high and is simply greedy. here ya go again comparing what someone earns to what someone else earns as a method to define too much. and you do the same thing with your market value crap. funny how it doesnt seem to apply to the execs in the same way. for the average worker its the lowest price and for the exec it is the highest price. you seem to believe that someones salary should be based on what someone else makes rather than on the jobs skills and societies demand for those skills. i never said any such thing but feel free to continue lying to yourself. only an idiot would set a figure without all of the possible variables known and you didnt give me any at all. only an idiot would say someone makes too much simply because they make more than someone else. that is correct in you oh so typical distorted spin and i never said anything like it. the boss should make more but when you make over 50 times more than your employees that are actually doing the work you are over paid and greedy any way that you spin it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

glad i made you laugh but it demonstrates your complete conversion to liberalism. tis you that is brainwashed and youre too naive to notice. i have to ask how you can support a candidate that lied on military reports just to earn medals iirc it was on cnn and whos wife cant remember which lie she told to whom after only a few minutes her denial of calling the actions some people un-american at the convention. walk a mile in my shoes tom before you decide what i should do. budd you really make me laugh budd. that has never happened and in fact the funny thing is quite the opposite is happening and has been happening to you and you are so brainwashed that you cant even see it. .

From : frenchy

todd bertuzzi assault trial stay up on the events of the case as it unfolds.... - a humourous take.... or is it photo is un-doctored http//www.ackthpt.com/bertuzzipunch.htm cheers .

From : iman nassoul

t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote and basically bush has failed. but tell me jerry what accomplishments did bush have before he was elected if this is you requirement to be elected. well here in arlington tx he got the city to pay almost $200 million for a park for his baseball team for which we are still paying. the teams contribution to the park $0. .

From : milesh

tbone wrote do you mean your fuzzy math again go look up the unemployment rate for each year clinton was in office. your definition of fuzzy math seems to mean to simply ignore facts. look at the so called great years and compare the unemployment then to now. dang liberals and their fuzzy math that shows the same numbers as great under clinton but bad under bush. .

From : milesh

tbone wrote i guess that the true meaning of freedom and the rights of other nations have no real meaning to you do they. they do to me. but what the heck has that got to do with whether we should rely on the un for the protection of our rights and freedoms .

From : redneck tookover hell

yes i did but i have still to hear anything from you on clinton or gore clinton is getting his fat ass operatied on and gore got a speeding ticket for driving 72 mph in a 55 mph zone in wa state a couple weeks ago. $142 thank you al have another big mac bill politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote nice spin the problem is that there doesnt seem to be anything that he does that you dissagree with and if so name some. i have tbone but your memory eludes you because of your hatred. i disagree with bush on abortion issues and on immigration policies for starters. these are issues i agree more with kerry on. lol the only ones here with true hatred are the extremes on both sides and that includes you and budd. while abortion issues are more of a personal thing his immigration polocies do have a strong and negative effect on the economy. now tbone lets here what you agree with bush on and what you disagree with kerry on oh wait below you have already told me there are none. i keep asking for what bush has done and i never get any answers. just bs form you that you already gave them to me. i agree with bushs stance on terror but dissagree on how he is doing some of it. as for kerry i believe that he needs to move a little more to the right but until the first debate ill reserve my comments. you also believe that everything bush has done is bad. i asked a simple question and get a bunch of attacks on the other guy instead. this does not say much for your man now does it. gee tbone isnt that exactly what you are doing i have asked many times what good kerry has done. you reply by attacking bush. you are a hypocrite. i am not a hyprocrit you are just spinning. i asked many times what bush did prior to becomming president ad again got nothing. why should the rules be different for kerry than they were for bush because you have yet to give me an example of anything to either agree with or dissagree with. why do i have to bring up anything i do not know all your views i only know mine. now once again i ask you what do you agree with bush on and what do you disagree with kerry on i already answered and after the republican convention and the first debate ill have more valid answers. lol yea right name one. see above about your short term hate filled memory. ditto my political bias and hatred for christs sakes miles you just rattled off that you hate clinton gore and kerry who all happen to be democrats. no i said i dont like them. really this is directly from one of your posts i cant stand kerry or clinton or gore. that sounds a little stronger than dont like to me. i also said all three did some good things for this country. completetly different than your 100% hatred of bush. yes you did but didnt specify anything at all why not i dont hate bush and i am actually asking what good did he do. i do agree with his stance on terror but dont agree with the way that he implemented his actions. kerry was never the president and it is the responsibility of the president to prove that he deserves to remain in office and this one has done no such thing. i nominate this statement for the boner award of the year. a candidate kerry doesnt have to prove a thing as to why he deserves my vote sure he does but that goes more to what his ideas are. the current president has to back his re-election on both what his ideas are and more importantly what he has done in his first term. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote that is no answer either. why is it that you right wingers always feel the need to change the rules when they work against you if it is so important for someone to perform some stellar act before becoming president what did bush do oh come now tbone. your political bias will not allow you to admit that bush has done some things you even find good. just like yours will not allow you to see that his bad outweighs his good. i cant stand kerry or clinton or gore. really i never could have guessed. but there are some things all of them did that i agree with that were good for our country. like what you on the other hand will deny anything good from bush or anyone connected with him. because the right wing refuses to take any responsibility for what they do wrong. it is always the other guy and we will look into it which never happens. so why discuss what has already been mentioned here that you deny because that never happened and this is just spin. all i asked for is a list and never got anything like it. face it miles the only thing that you are looking at is the tax cut and the extra $$$$ that it put in your pocket and fuck everyone else. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote my political bias and hatred for christs sakes miles you just rattled off that you hate clinton gore and kerry who all happen to be democrats. no i said i dont like them. really this is directly from one of your posts i cant stand kerry or clinton or gore. that sounds a little stronger than dont like to me. rofl. you said hate. now youre trying to spin it to suit your needs. now its a degree i dont like em dont care for them whatever ya wanna call it i dont care. point is that i still agree with many of their policies and views. that is different from many of the left that continually suggests that bush has done nothing good that they agree with. you then spin it and ask what good has bush done i cant answer that for you tbone. i do not know what items you may or maynot agree with. i can tell you what i agree with bush/kerry on and what i disagree with bush/kerry on. you have a very very difficult time doing the same even though you spin it to say otherwise. i nominate this statement for the boner award of the year. a candidate kerry doesnt have to prove a thing as to why he deserves my vote sure he does but that goes more to what his ideas are. the current president has to back his re-election on both what his ideas ar

From : milesh

tbone wrote the one entity created to be the worlds policeman is the united nations which is made up of all the nations willing to be a part of it and takes into account all of the social beliefs and needs of all countries not just the us and our beliefs. that is complete bs. the individual nations of the un historically have acted in thier own best interests absent of the interests of others. when they do act which is rare guess who is called upon to put up the most $s the most men/women and the most equipment the usa cant and should not rely on the un for its interests nor protection. the un is no more effective than the league of nations. .

From : tbone

importantly what he has done in his first term. kerry has to do the same. he has to back up what he has done in his political career to win my vote. you seem to be the type that votes against a person rather than for one. trouble is there is no selection on the ballot for none of the above. . 222 288549 5yiyc.419$683.276132@twister.southeast.rr.com there is where your reasoning falls apart tom. we are the big bad ass. we are the worlds policeman. like it or not that is our destiny. we didnt chose it but that is the way it has worked out. that is what any social entity needs tom. there has to be one person one country or one whatever that has the ability to restore order to any given situation. we are that entity. the debate as to when we use that authority is an appropriate one and one that every american has a right to participate in but dont elude yourself into believing that we are not the big bad ass or that the world does not need one. even in my own home raising two sons i can be the big bad ass. our home has to have that someone has to have the ability to step in and restore order or make decisions that can be carried out so that we can head on to other things. you can cry all you want but this is a fact. it has to be that way. while we may be the worlds bad as at the moment we are not the worlds policeman. destiny has nothing to do with anything in a free society it is our choice. where your reasoning falls apart is in your belief that the world is a single social entity. it is far from that and if you took even soc 1 in college you would understand that. the one entity created to be the worlds policeman is the united nations which is made up of all the nations willing to be a part of it and takes into account all of the social beliefs and needs of all countries not just the us and our beliefs. nobody elected us to be that entity and it is just arrogant and ignorant to assume otherwise. there have been others that followed you idiotic beliefs and fortunanly for the world they have all been defeted and if we try it so will we. now who would you like the worlds policeman to be russia or maybe iraq no we are not only the most logical country we are the most ethical one. we have our blemishes in our history i will readily admit that but never the less there is no country i would want to fill that roll other than america. of course not you are an american. what makes you think that we are the most ethical a quick look at history will show that we fall far short of that on many levels. iirc there was this little thing created to deal with being the policeman of the world. i think that it was called the united nations and just because you dont agree with them on everything doesnt make them wrong or useless. there was another with your beliefs i think that his name was adolph. what i think you need to do and this is my honest opinion and not meant to slam you is to grow the fuck up and accept some responsibility. grow a pair tom. stop feeling guilty about being an american and start thinking about the future of this country and this world. if we step out of the world or if the world loses order because we are not willing to step in and restore it we dont have much of a future. i will repeat what i said before stop being weak and accept the responsibilities of being an american. lol pull your head out of your ass and look around you guy. talk about growing a pair all of this bs is nothing more than a manifestation of your right wing fear of the world. i dont feel guilty about being an american but that does not mean that i dont see our arrogance as evident by this long winded drivel from you or that we are the most wasteful country on the planet. we keep screeming about our future and dependency on foreign oil but we are the ones that made it that way with our lifestyles and we make it worse every day. at the rate that we use resources how long do you think that they are going to last and now with china flying up the usage chain as well they will go quickly indeed. so much for the future of the world or even for your children. if the world loses order it will happen reegardless of what we do and as far as accepting the responsibilites of being an american i already have. when are you going to start having said that i am done with this. i am not going to get into any endless prattle with you over this. you are simply wrong but i have no interest in changing your mind some people just have to be wrong i think. i am glad that you are not trying to change my mind with this because you would be destined to fail. you can think of me as wrong but history shows the ones with your beliefs to be wrong and always lose in the end. i can only hope that our countries leadership does not follow your ideas. i would miss this country. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not

From : tbone

tbone wrote my political bias and hatred for christs sakes miles you just rattled off that you hate clinton gore and kerry who all happen to be democrats. no i said i dont like them. really this is directly from one of your posts i cant stand kerry or clinton or gore. that sounds a little stronger than dont like to me. rofl. you said hate. because that is how you act and you make the same accusations about me with bush even though i said repeatedly that i dont. now youre trying to spin it to suit your needs. now its a degree set by you. i dont like em dont care for them whatever ya wanna call it i dont care. point is that i still agree with many of their policies and views. and once again you fail to mention even a single one. fine i also agree with many of bushs views but not the way that he implemented many of them. the problem is that its the implementation that counts not just the views and ideas. that is different from many of the left that continually suggests that bush has done nothing good that they agree with. perhaps because for the left he hasnt. he could give a rats ass about the environment or conservation and is entire cabinet is clearly in the hip pocket of big business and energy such as coal and oil. you then spin it and ask what good has bush done i cant answer that for you tbone. i do not know what items you may or maynot agree with. while true you dont even say what good he has done for you besides the tax cuts. i can tell you what i agree with bush/kerry on and what i disagree with bush/kerry on. you keep saying that but never back it up with actual points and until you do it is just spin. i nominate this statement for the boner award of the year. a candidate kerry doesnt have to prove a thing as to why he deserves my vote sure he does but that goes more to what his ideas are. the current president has to back his re-election on both what his ideas are and more importantly what he has done in his first term. kerry has to do the same. he has to back up what he has done in his political career to win my vote. then ill ask again what did bush do to win your vote you seem to be the type that votes against a person rather than for one. that depends on the situation. bush has done nothing to better my life or make me feel more secure but has done plenty to increase my cost of living. why would i want 4 more years of that trouble is there is no selection on the ballot for none of the above. sadly that is true. well i have had enough of this thread until the republican convention is over and i hear what his plans are for the future of this country. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote and once again you fail to mention even a single one. i have over and over. yet you still make this stupid statement asking to post them yet again. good grief tbone rtfp! perhaps because for the left he hasnt. bull. for the radical left thats possible. for them its a matter of awareness along with even carrying. it is easier to just say he hasnt done anything good. he could give a rats ass about the environment or conservation and is entire cabinet is clearly in the hip pocket of big business and energy such as coal and oil. who provides the jobs besides after the reps here in az nm co nm ca told the dems to stuff their ineffective forest enviromental & conservation bs after so many fires our forests are looking better and better now that thinning in some areas have been adopted. even with a continued drought here in az and the bark beetle issue this has been the 1st year with a decent fire season. forest neglect by the dems is not effective conservation. while true you dont even say what good he has done for you besides the tax cuts. i have but you disagree with me on those issues. they are a matter of opinion and i do not know yours. but i do tend to think there are many policies of bush you agree with in their entirety just as i agree with some of kerrys and of clintons. i also tend to think there are some policies of kerrys and clintons you completely disagree with. yet what i hear is strictly partisan. you keep saying that but never back it up with actual points and until you do it is just spin. i have over and over. again rtfps. then ill ask again what did bush do to win your vote his views and actions on terrorism taxes environment etc. i realize these disagree with your views but they are mine none the less. and ill ask you again what has kerry done in his 20 year senate career to win your vote sadly that is true. well i have had enough of this thread until the republican convention is over and i hear what his plans are for the future of this country. it wont matter what he says at the convention. youve already made up your mind. so whats the point .

From : theguy

on 30 aug 2004 132714 edt milesh milesh@nounwantedspam.com wrote tbone wrote the one entity created to be the worlds policeman is the united nations which is made up of all the nations willing to be a part of it and takes into account all of the social beliefs and needs of all countries not just the us and our beliefs. that is complete bs. the individual nations of the un historically have acted in thier own best interests absent of the interests of others. when they do act which is rare guess who is called upon to put up the most $s the most men/women and the most equipment the usa cant and should not rely on the un for its interests nor protection. the un is no more effective than the league of nations. ya i am still trying to stay out of this but to say that the united nations can do anything including wipe its own ass shows either incredible ignorance or a total lack of familiarity with reality. i dont even know where to start with that statement i could write books on the lameness of that one tom. .

From : budd cochran

lol tom when will you learn that when you make a personal attack in a political or religious argument always means you lost the argument and are not bright enough to admit it its also known as the oh yeah!!! syndrome. btw if youre wondering why i even got into the argument it was to show that you didnt care about the source or accuracy of what you argue against you only want to argue and be a liberal puppet. and to pull your string a bit. rotflmbo!!!! budd i think therefore i am conservative. as long as hes digging the hole we dont have to do we vbg what do you think of this for a sigline budd i think therefore im a conservative i think that it is an oxymoron sorta like jumbo shrimp - -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

ya just say that you compressed the caliper. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving yea thanks know its not the wheel cylinder. it was just what i called the actual brakes compressor on the inside of the caliper since i didnt know the exact name. it has nothing to do with the water crap on 28 aug 2004 025321 gmt mopar440@aol.comnet.org redneck tookover hell wrote whats the correct name of the whatsis that contains the caliper piston and its fluid and has its bleed port on top you mean caliper sure isnt wheel cylinder wheel cylinder could be called an inside caliper like the measuring device! .

From : milesh

budd cochran wrote its a shame tom wont post what he agrees with bush about. then there would only need to one or less things to discuss. well he says he did sorta. pretty well qualified it to the point of negating it completely...but he said it. .

From : idaspode

on mon 30 aug 2004 213428 gmt jerry jlrice1655@earthlink.net wrote so what has kerry accomplished he married well... jerry dj .

From : budd cochran

lol need a co-author first we need to kick them out of the us and onto an easily nuked island. budd on 30 aug 2004 132714 edt milesh milesh@nounwantedspam.com wrote tbone wrote the one entity created to be the worlds policeman is the united nations which is made up of all the nations willing to be a part of it and takes into account all of the social beliefs and needs of all countries not just the us and our beliefs. that is complete bs. the individual nations of the un historically have acted in thier own best interests absent of the interests of others. when they do act which is rare guess who is called upon to put up the most $s the most men/women and the most equipment the usa cant and should not rely on the un for its interests nor protection. the un is no more effective than the league of nations. ya i am still trying to stay out of this but to say that the united nations can do anything including wipe its own ass shows either incredible ignorance or a total lack of familiarity with reality. i dont even know where to start with that statement i could write books on the lameness of that one tom. .

From : tbone

lol well thanks budd. since just about every post from you is nothing more than a personal attack on me thanks for admitting your losses. i guess that the same can be said for red who does nothing else but.... -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving lol tom when will you learn that when you make a personal attack in a political or religious argument always means you lost the argument and are not bright enough to admit it its also known as the oh yeah!!! syndrome. btw if youre wondering why i even got into the argument it was to show that you didnt care about the source or accuracy of what you argue against you only want to argue and be a liberal puppet. and to pull your string a bit. rotflmbo!!!! budd i think therefore i am conservative. as long as hes digging the hole we dont have to do we vbg what do you think of this for a sigline budd i think therefore im a conservative i think that it is an oxymoron sorta like jumbo shrimp - -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

on 30 aug 2004 132714 edt milesh milesh@nounwantedspam.com wrote tbone wrote the one entity created to be the worlds policeman is the united nations which is made up of all the nations willing to be a part of it and takes into account all of the social beliefs and needs of all countries not just the us and our beliefs. that is complete bs. the individual nations of the un historically have acted in thier own best interests absent of the interests of others. when they do act which is rare guess who is called upon to put up the most $s the most men/women and the most equipment the usa cant and should not rely on the un for its interests nor protection. the un is no more effective than the league of nations. ya i am still trying to stay out of this but to say that the united nations can do anything including wipe its own ass shows either incredible ignorance or a total lack of familiarity with reality. i dont even know where to start with that statement i could write books on the lameness of that one tom. i didnt say that they were perfect or even terribly effective but that is what they are for. i guess that the true meaning of freedom and the right

From : tbone

of other nations have no real meaning to you do they. like i said before there were others with your belief system. btw dont back up too fast you might find budds nose in an uncomfortable position. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving . 222 288586 qwlyc.407$ay.178651@twister.southeast.rr.com yes i did but i have still to hear anything from you on clinton or gore for that matter. like i said i dont hate the man but i dont like the way he implements his ideas. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving budd cochran wrote its a shame tom wont post what he agrees with bush about. then there would only need to one or less things to discuss. well he says he did sorta. pretty well qualified it to the point of negating it completely...but he said it. .

From : theguy

on mon 30 aug 2004 153748 -0600 idaspode not@icehouse.net wrote on mon 30 aug 2004 213428 gmt jerry jlrice1655@earthlink.net wrote so what has kerry accomplished he married well... jerry dj true. very true. .

From : jerry

tbone wrote i am not a hyprocrit you are just spinning. i asked many times what bush did prior to becomming president ad again got nothing. why should the rules be different for kerry than they were for bush whats the point you keep asking this question over and over as if it is suppose to mean something. bush was not in politics above the state level until he ran for president. he did bring texas school education out of the dumps and he did get rid of that idiot ann richardson that was driving the texas economy into the ground. on the other hand kerry has been in the senate for what now..... 20 years. what the hell has he actually accomplished. even if bush only showed up for his cabinet meetings in texas thats more than kerry can claim. so what has kerry accomplished jerry .

From : tbone

tbone wrote i guess that the true meaning of freedom and the rights of other nations have no real meaning to you do they. they do to me. but what the heck has that got to do with whether we should rely on the un for the protection of our rights and freedoms there is a big difference between relying on them for our rights and freedoms and imposing our beliefs on others because we choose not to like them and are bigger than they are. exactly what rights and freedoms are you talking about -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

well tom i liked clintons hairstyle as i wear mine the same way and i like mc donalds hamburgers occasionally but i never had anything else i agreed with him on. of course youll assume im being facetious when actually it is the whole truth. its all i found to agree with him on. budd yes i did but i have still to hear anything from you on clinton or gore for that matter. like i said i dont hate the man but i dont like the way he implements his ideas. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving budd cochran wrote its a shame tom wont post what he agrees with bush about. then there would only need to one or less things to discuss. well he says he did sorta. pretty well qualified it to the point of negating it completely...but he said it. .

From : milesh

idaspode wrote on mon 30 aug 2004 213428 gmt jerry jlrice1655@earthlink.net wrote so what has kerry accomplished he married well... you gotta define well there. if you mean rich then ya he did. when looking for a woman i need a few more qualities than just being rich. i want a woman who is rich beautiful cooks a nympho cleans and can fix my truck. is that asking to much .

From : milesh

tbone wrote there is a big difference between relying on them for our rights and freedoms and imposing our beliefs on others because we choose not to like them and are bigger than they are. exactly what rights and freedoms are you talking about yada yada yada....ya we went into iraq just because we are bigger and could. oh and to get their oil too. lots of it. so when do those tankers with iraqi oil dock on our ports dems started saying this bs since the gulf war. didnt know it took 13 years for a tanker to make the trip. .

From : tbone

idaspode wrote on mon 30 aug 2004 213428 gmt jerry jlrice1655@earthlink.net wrote so what has kerry accomplished he married well... you gotta define well there. if you mean rich then ya he did. when looking for a woman i need a few more qualities than just being rich. i want a woman who is rich beautiful cooks a nympho cleans and can fix my truck. is that asking to much not at all but ill pass on the fixing of my truck. i like to do that stuff myself. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : theguy

on mon 30 aug 2004 201301 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote on 30 aug 2004 132714 edt milesh milesh@nounwantedspam.com wrote tbone wrote the one entity created to be the worlds policeman is the united nations which is made up of all the nations willing to be a part of it and takes into account all of the social beliefs and needs of all countries not just the us and our beliefs. that is complete bs. the individual nations of the un historically have acted in thier own best interests absent of the interests of others. when they do act which is rare guess who is called upon to put up the most $s the most men/women and the most equipment the usa cant and should not rely on the un for its interests nor protection. the un is no more effective than the league of nations. ya i am still trying to stay out of this but to say that the united nations can do anything including wipe its own ass shows either incredible ignorance or a total lack of familiarity with reality. i dont even know where to start with that statement i could write books on the lameness of that one tom. i didnt say that they were perfect or even terribly effective but that is what they are for. i guess that the true meaning of freedom and the rights of other nations have no real meaning to you do they. like i said before there were others with your belief system. btw dont back up too fast you might find budds nose in an uncomfortable position. first tom that is an unfair thing to say. budd is entitled to his beliefs as are you. because he and i agree is because we believe the same not because either of us are trying to shine up to the other. the meaning of freedom clearly means more to me than to you. you see tom i also understand the cost of freedom and i care about the future of this world. i have paid my dues tom. your other statement is without meaning. explain it please tom. any organization that puts countries like iraq on the committee for hum rights has a fundamental problem tom and there is no way that you can explain the hypocrisy of that. .

From : budd cochran

lol i agree with theguy on a few minor points and now im butt kissing. i knew youd get mad over it but too bad we do agree about it. get over yourself. budd on 30 aug 2004 132714 edt milesh milesh@nounwantedspam.com wrote tbone wrote the one entity created to be the worlds policeman is the united nations which is made up of all the nations willing to be a part of it and takes into account all of the social beliefs and needs of all countries not just the us and our beliefs. that is complete bs. the individual nations of the un historically have acted in thier own best interests absent of the interests of others. when they do act which is rare guess who is called upon to put up the most $s the most men/women and the most equipment the usa cant and should not rely on the un for its interests nor protection. the un is no more effective than the league of nations. ya i am still trying to stay out of this but to say that the united nations can do anything including wipe its own ass shows either incredible ignorance or a total lack of familiarity with reality. i dont even know where to start with that statement i could write books on the lameness of that one tom. i didnt say that they were perfect or even terribly effective but that is what they are for. i guess that the true meaning of freedom and the rights of other nations have no real meaning to you do they. like i said before there were others with your belief system. btw dont back up too fast you might find budds nose in an uncomfortable position. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com believes in his warped liberal puppet mind lol well thanks budd. since just about every post from you is nothing more than a personal attack on me thanks for admitting your losses. i guess that the same can be said for red who does nothing else but.... youre welcome. but you did fail to mention of course that i dont attack you until after you attack me. figures. it would be admitting youre human. im still amazed you fell for the right wing info from liberal sources though. i had given you credit for at least reading the more closely . .. . at first. budd i am conservative therefore i think. .

From : tbone

fair enough so why is it that i have to agree with bush on anything -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving well tom i liked clintons hairstyle as i wear mine the same way and i like mc donalds hamburgers occasionally but i never had anything else i agreed with him on. of course youll assume im being facetious when actually it is the whole truth. its all i found to agree with him on. budd yes i did but i have still to hear anything from you on clinton or gore for that matter. like i said i dont hate the man but i dont like the way he implements his ideas. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving budd cochran wrote its a shame tom wont post what he agrees with bush about. then there would only need to one or less things to discuss. well he says he did sorta. pretty well qualified it to the point of negating it completely...but he said it. .

From : tbone

tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com believes in his warped liberal puppet mind lol well thanks budd. since just about every post from you is nothing more than a personal attack on me thanks for admitting your losses. i guess that the same can be said for red who does nothing else but.... youre welcome. but you did fail to mention of course that i dont attack you until after you attack me. figures. it would be admitting youre human. sorry budd but you seem to live to attack me anymore. not that i mind since i find most of them funny but you really shouldnt make accusations for which you are every bit as guilty of as i am. budd i am constipated therefore i think. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

how or why would you even assume that i would not like it why would i even care lol its not that you agree its the way that you lower yourself in some lame attempt to get me. you simply have no dignity. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving lol i agree with theguy on a few minor points and now im butt kissing. i knew youd get mad over it but too bad we do agree about it. get over yourself. budd on 30 aug 2004 132714 edt milesh milesh@nounwantedspam.com wrote tbone wrote the one entity created to be the worlds policeman is the united nations which is made up of all the nations willing to be a part of it and takes into account all of the social beliefs and needs of all countries not just the us and our beliefs. that is complete bs. the individual nations of the un historically have acted in thier own best interests absent of the interests of others. when they do act which is rare guess who is called upon to put up the most $s the most men/women and the most equipment the usa cant and should not rely on the un for its interests nor protection. the un is no more effective than the league of nations. ya i am still trying to stay out of this but to say that the united nations can do anything including wipe its own ass shows either incredible ignorance or a total lack of familiarity with reality. i dont even know where to start with that statement i could write books on the lameness of that one tom. i didnt say that they were perfect or even terribly effective but that is what they are for. i guess that the true meaning of freedom and the rights of other nations have no real meaning to you do they. like i said before there were others with your belief system. btw dont back up too fast you might find budds nose in an uncomfortable position. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

you dont. but odds are you do agree with many of bushs polcies but refuse to admit it. any politician has some policies that agree with people from either side. there is no such thing as all one way or another. tbone wrote fair enough so why is it that i have to agree with bush on anything .

From : tbone

then i guess that applies to crybaby budd as well lol. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving you dont. but odds are you do agree with many of bushs polcies but refuse to admit it. any politician has some policies that agree with people from either side. there is no such thing as all one way or another. tbone wrote fair enough so why is it that i have to agree with bush on anything .

From : milesh

tbone wrote where exactly do you draw the line perfection is not required nor does it exist here or anywhere else. for selecting a nation to the uns human rights council the line drawn is somewhere above extreme human rights abuse. no country below that line should be on the council. .

From : budd cochran

rotflmbo!!! what a loser. budd then i guess that applies to crybaby budd as well lol. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving you dont. but odds are you do agree with many of bushs polcies but refuse to admit it. any politician has some policies that agree with people from either side. there is no such thing as all one way or another. tbone wrote fair enough so why is it that i have to agree with bush on anything .

From : tbone

tbone wrote the one entity created to be the worlds policeman is the united nations which is made up of all the nations willing to be a part of it and takes into account all of the social beliefs and needs of all countries not just the us and our beliefs. that is complete bs. the individual nations of the un historically have acted in thier own best interests absent of the interests of others. lol pretty much exactly the same thing that we are curently doing so what is the difference when they do act which is rare guess who is called upon to put up the most $s the most men/women and the most equipment again pretty much exactly what we are doing so again whats the difference the usa cant and should not rely on the un for its interests nor protection. the un is no more effective than the league of nations. true but what does that have to do with us being the self proclaimed police of the world. every other nation that has tried that has failed. we will be no different. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

rotflmbo!!! i have to admit one thing tom youre consistent stupid but consistent. look puppet and try to remember this for more than one post; you said i couldnt agree with a liberal on anything and i just made you a liar. now if you want to agree with anyone about anything thats up to you i dont care. btw i thought you were done with me another lie budd fair enough so why is it that i have to agree with bush on anything -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving well tom i liked clintons hairstyle as i wear mine the same way and i like mc donalds hamburgers occasionally but i never had anything else i agreed with him on. of course youll assume im being facetious when actually it is the whole truth. its all i found to agree with him on. budd yes i did but i have still to hear anything from you on clinton or gore for that matter. like i said i dont hate the man but i dont like the way he implements his ideas. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving budd cochran wrote its a shame tom wont post what he agrees with bush about. then there would only need to one or less things to discuss. well he says he did sorta. pretty well qualified it to the point of negating it completely...but he said it. .

From : tbone

on mon 30 aug 2004 201301 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote on 30 aug 2004 132714 edt milesh milesh@nounwantedspam.com wrote tbone wrote the one entity created to be the worlds policeman is the united nations which is made up of all the nations willing to be a part of it and takes into account all of the social beliefs and needs of all countries not just the us and our beliefs. that is complete bs. the individual nations of the un historically have acted in thier own best interests absent of the interests of others. when they do act which is rare guess who is called upon to put up the most $s the most men/women and the most equipment the usa cant and should not rely on the un for its interests nor protection. the un is no more effective than the league of nations. ya i am still trying to stay out of this but to say that the united nations can do anything including wipe its own ass shows either incredible ignorance or a total lack of familiarity with reality. i dont even know where to start with that statement i could write books on the lameness of that one tom. i didnt say that they were perfect or even terribly effective but that is what they are for. i guess that the true meaning of freedom and the rights of other nations have no real meaning to you do they. like i said before there were others with your belief system. btw dont back up too fast you might find budds nose in an uncomfortable position. first tom that is an unfair thing to say. budd is entitled to his beliefs as are you. because he and i agree is because we believe the same not because either of us are trying to shine up to the other. not really. while you two may fully agree on this topic he is definitely trying to shine up to you. it is the reasons for it that i find both funny and sad. the meaning of freedom clearly means more to me than to you. you see tom i also understand the cost of freedom and i care about the future of this world. i have paid my dues tom. i never said otherwise but there is more to assuring the future of this world then just kicking the shit out of those you feel may be a threat. your other statement is without meaning. explain it please tom. any organization that puts countries like iraq on the committee for hum rights has a fundamental problem tom and there is no way that you can explain the hypocrisy of that. lol i never said that it was perfect but they were probably put on there for their cultural input. despite the actions of their fucked up leader they do have a culture that needs to be accounted for. you seem to be forgetting about the way that we treated and treat the american indian the homeless and our own racial problems here. while we may be a far cry from saddam we are not exactly perfect either. where exactly do you draw the line -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

you prove your jealousy with every post you make about us agreeing and if it really didnt matter you would have no need to comment about it unless it bothered you so by deduction you dont like it. i thought you were done with me cyberstalking now tom budd how or why would you even assume that i would not like it why would i even care lol its not that you agree its the way that you lower yourself in some lame attempt to get me. you simply have no dignity. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving lol i agree with theguy on a few minor points and now im butt kissing. i knew youd get mad over it but too bad we do agree about it. get over yourself. budd on 30 aug 2004 132714 edt milesh milesh@nounwantedspam.com wrote tbone wrote the one entity created to be the worlds policeman is the united nations which is made up of all the nations willing to be a part of it and takes into account all of the social beliefs and needs of all countries not just the us and our beliefs. that is complete bs. the individual nations of the un historically have acted in thier own best interests absent of the interests of others. when they do act which is rare guess who is called upon to put up the most $s the most men/women and the most equipment the usa cant and should not rely on the un for its interests nor protection. the un is no more effective than the league of nations. ya i am still trying to stay out of this but to say that the united nations can do anything including wipe its own ass shows either incredible ignorance or a total lack of familiarity with reality. i dont even know where to start with that statement i could write books on the lameness of that one tom. i didnt say that they were perfect or even terribly effective but that is what they are for. i guess that the true meaning of freedom and the rights of other nations have no real meaning to you do they. like i said before there were others with your belief system. btw dont back up too fast you might find budds nose in an uncomfortable position. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

sorry budd but you seem to live to attack me anymore. not that i mind since i find most of them funny but you really shouldnt make accusations for which you are every bit as guilty of as i am. poor little tom tom. caught in another lie. you know you cant be done with me as you keep hoping to win an argument . . .but you see tom as long as you open you mouth and say dumb things somebody not just me but somebody will call you out for it. and as soon as you find your point dulled you cry and call names. budd if you never succeed your name must be t-bone .

From : tbone

rotflmbo!!! i have to admit one thing tom youre consistent stupid but consistent. p.k.b look puppet and try to remember this for more than one post; you said i couldnt agree with a liberal on anything and i just made you a liar. now puppet lol now you are stealing my old name for max. at least you could be origional on occasion. now how did you make me a liar or are you just sundowning again if you want to agree with anyone about anything thats up to you i dont care. oh yes you do. you care about everything that i say or do and have said so yourself. now who is the one that is a liar btw i thought you were done with me another lie in the brake thread i am. you were wrong end of story but you are way to entertaining for me to give up on you completely. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote there is a big difference between relying on them for our rights and freedoms and imposing our beliefs on others because we choose not to like them and are bigger than they are. exactly what rights and freedoms are you talking about yada yada yada....ya we went into iraq just because we are bigger and could. pretty much. the inspectors reports that they were showing on tv said that they were not there and well look at that there are none. so why exactly did we go oh and to get their oil too. lots of it. to get it no. that would probably start a real war but to have some control and influence damn right. so when do those tankers with iraqi oil dock on our ports they have been but that is not the point. the fact that oil prices are now on the rise can be directly attributed to this poorly planned war. dems started saying this bs since the gulf war. didnt know it took 13 years for a tanker to make the trip. they are very slow. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote and once again you fail to mention even a single one. i have over and over. yet you still make this stupid statement asking to post them yet again. good grief tbone rtfp! the fact that i keep asking is a clear indiction that you are not doing it. perhaps because for the left he hasnt. bull. for the radical left thats possible. for them its a matter of awareness along with even carrying. it is easier to just say he hasnt done anything good. you keep making the claim but never back it up. perhaps that is because you cant. if you did you would only prove that just about everything that he has done or will do is for the wealthy. he could give a rats ass about the environment or conservation and is entire cabinet is clearly in the hip pocket of big business and energy such as coal and oil. who provides the jobs besides after the reps here in az nm co nm ca told the dems to stuff their ineffective forest enviromental & conservation bs after so many fires our forests are looking better and better now that thinning in some areas have been adopted. yea right complete bs. spin is a magical thing. even with a continued drought here in az and the bark beetle issue this has been the 1st year with a decent fire season. forest neglect by the dems is not effective conservation. lol what a complete load of shit. all of the forests in the us came to be without our help. why is it now that they need it you have a continued drought probably due to deforestation of the past. as for thinning the trees that is complete bullshit and you know it. there idea of thinning is to cut down all of the big healthy ones and leave the sick dying and underbrush right where it is or bulldoze it if it is in the way of the high $$$$$$ lumber. the funny thing is that it is the scrub brush and sick trees that are the primary cause of the fires next to your drought. but if there is nothing left to burn big trees it sorta becomes a non-issue since brush fires alone are easily contained. while true you dont even say what good he has done for you besides the tax cuts. i have but you disagree with me on those issues. no you have not. they are a matter of opinion and i do not know yours. but i do tend to think there are many policies of bush you agree with in their entirety just as i agree with some of kerrys and of clintons. i also tend to think there are some policies of kerrys and clintons you completely disagree with. yet what i hear is strictly partisan. you are correct there are some polocies of clinton and kerry that i dont fully agree with but overall im more in line with them than i am with bush. you keep saying that but never back it up with actual points and until you do it is just spin. i have over and over. again rtfps. you have yet ot ever clearly list anything. you hint at the tax cuts and possibly the war but no clear list and nothing else that i can remember. why do you feel the need to hide them. then ill ask again what did bush do to win your vote his views and actions on terrorism taxes environment etc. i realize these disagree with your views but they are mine none the less. fair enough that is all that i asked for. and ill ask you again what has kerry done in his 20 year senate career to win your vote i could care less about what he did in the senate just like i could care less what clinton reagan or bush did as governors. what matters is what he will do as president and what he has done as president for me and what i believe is right. sadly that is true. well i have had enough of this thread until the republican convention is over and i hear what his plans are for the future of this country. it wont matter what he says at the convention. youve already made up your mind. so whats the point so have you but i am curious to see where it goes and what his plans for the future are. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

sorry budd but you seem to live to attack me anymore. not that i mind since i find most of them funny but you really shouldnt make accusations for which you are every bit as guilty of as i am. poor little tom tom. caught in another lie. lol which fabricated lie are you talking about now you know you cant be done with me as you keep hoping to win an argument that only had to do with that thread. i will never be done with you budd you are way to much fun. perhaps some day you will grow a pair and be man enough to admit that you are as much at fault with this childish battle as i am but until then.... . . .but you see tom as long as you open you mouth and say dumb things somebody not just me but somebody will call you out for it. sure budd keep thinking that. exactly what drugs are you on i would love to take a little trip in that fantasy world of yours. and as soon as you find your point dulled you cry and call names. once again you accuse me of what you re doing. it is kinda funny and interesting watching the way your mind works when it actually does. budd i just soiled myself again so i must be an idiot -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

sorry budd but the one here chasing me around is the true cyberstalker. you were the one butting in to me on a conversation between me and theguy. it is not the fact that the two of you agree that interests me it is your kissing up that i find amusing. like i said you have no dignity. as far as being done with you no way. you are far to entertaining to give up on. the brake thread was pointless and there was nothing to be gained other than to watch gary cry some more so i bailed out and yes tom it did take a while - but im sure that we will have many more stunning conversations watching you make a fool out of yourself. btw what happened to max at least he has enough intelligence to keep it interesting. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving you prove your jealousy with every post you make about us agreeing and if it really didnt matter you would have no need to comment about it unless it bothered you so by deduction you dont like it. i thought you were done with me cyberstalking now tom budd how or why would you even assume that i would not like it why would i even care lol its not that you agree its the way that you lower yourself in some lame attempt to get me. you simply have no dignity. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving lol i agree with theguy on a few minor points and now im butt kissing. i knew youd get mad over it but too bad we do agree about it. get over yourself. budd on 30 aug 2004 132714 edt milesh milesh@nounwantedspam.com wrote tbone wrote the one entity created to be the worlds policeman is the united nations which is made up of all the nations willing to be a part of it and takes into account all of the social beliefs and needs of all countries not just the us and our beliefs. that is complete bs. the individual nations of the un historically have acted in thier own best interests absent of the interests of others. when they do act which is rare guess who is called upon to put up the most $s the most men/women and the most equipment the usa cant and should not rely on the un for its interests nor protection. the un is no more effective than the league of nations. ya i am still trying to stay out of this but to say that the united nations can do anything including wipe its own ass shows either incredible ignorance or a total lack of familiarity with reality. i dont even know where to start with that statement i could write books on the lameness of that one tom. i didnt say that they were perfect or even terribly effective but that is what they are for. i guess that the true meaning of freedom and the rights of other nations have no real meaning to you do they. like i said before there were others with your belief system. btw dont back up too fast you might find budds nose in an uncomfortable position. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote you keep making the claim but never back it up. perhaps that is because you cant. if you did you would only prove that just about everything that he has done or will do is for the wealthy. what has the oh so great ever done to help the poor besides oppress them lol what a complete load of shit. all of the forests in the us came to be without our help. why is it now that they need it you have a continued drought probably due to deforestation of the past. as for thinning the trees that is complete bullshit and you know it. there idea of thinning is to cut down all of the big healthy ones and leave the sick dying and underbrush right where it is or bulldoze it if it is in the way of the high $$$$$$ lumber. the funny thing is that it is the scrub brush and sick trees that are the primary cause of the fires next to your drought. but if there is nothing left to burn big trees it sorta becomes a non-issue since brush fires alone are easily contained. where do you get your crap what the forest service has been doing the past 2 years here in the sw is to take out the underbrush and overcrowded small trees. when the forest gets crammed thick the trees are small and weak. big trees are rare. take a drive through the az forests. the big trees are standing. the underbrush in many areas is gone. your political bias leads you away from even looking into whats being done. you make a statement devoid of any actual knowledge of whats been happening the past two years. i could care less about what he did in the senate just like i could care less what clinton reagan or bush did as governors. what matters is what he will do as president and what he has done as president for me and what i believe is right. so you base your vote only on what a canidate says he will do during his campaign since when does a president ever live up to his campaign no matter which side youre the dream voter the dems just love. easily swayed based on a few short months of campaign bs. so have you but i am curious to see where it goes and what his plans for the future are. i look at kerrys 20 year voting record to know how he stands on various issues. his 180 degree about face on some issues is pure campaign bs. his 20 year record tells me what he will do if elected. he didnt change his stance while voting for 20 years why would i assume he will change now .

From : milesh

tbone wrote they have been but that is not the point. the fact that oil prices are now on the rise can be directly attributed to this poorly planned war. look again tbone before opening mouth. oil prices have been falling fast the past 2 weeks. .

From : theguy

on tue 31 aug 2004 164924 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote on mon 30 aug 2004 201301 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote on 30 aug 2004 132714 edt milesh milesh@nounwantedspam.com wrote tbone wrote the one entity created to be the worlds policeman is the united nations which is made up of all the nations willing to be a part of it and takes into account all of the social beliefs and needs of all countries not just the us and our beliefs. that is complete bs. the individual nations of the un historically have acted in thier own best interests absent of the interests of others. when they do act which is rare guess who is called upon to put up the most $s the most men/women and the most equipment the usa cant and should not rely on the un for its interests nor protection. the un is no more effective than the league of nations. ya i am still trying to stay out of this but to say that the united nations can do anything including wipe its own ass shows either incredible ignorance or a total lack of familiarity with reality. i dont even know where to start with that statement i could write books on the lameness of that one tom. i didnt say that they were perfect or even terribly effective but that is what they are for. i guess that the true meaning of freedom and the rights of other nations have no real meaning to you do they. like i said before there were others with your belief system. btw dont back up too fast you might find budds nose in an uncomfortable position. first tom that is an unfair thing to say. budd is entitled to his beliefs as are you. because he and i agree is because we believe the same not because either of us are trying to shine up to the other. not really. while you two may fully agree on this topic he is definitely trying to shine up to you. it is the reasons for it that i find both funny and sad. the meaning of freedom clearly means more to me than to you. you see tom i also understand the cost of freedom and i care about the future of this world. i have paid my dues tom. i never said otherwise but there is more to assuring the future of this world then just kicking the shit out of those you feel may be a threat. your other statement is without meaning. explain it please tom. any organization that puts countries like iraq on the committee for hum rights has a fundamental problem tom and there is no way that you can explain the hypocrisy of that. lol i never said that it was perfect but they were probably put on there for their cultural input. despite the actions of their fucked up leader they do have a culture that needs to be accounted for. you seem to be forgetting about the way that we treated and treat the american indian the homeless and our own racial problems here. while we may be a far cry from saddam we are not exactly perfect either. where exactly do you draw the line tom you just pretty much spent all that time saying nothing. nothing at all. you made no point you answered no questions. you just slammed a couple people again and then sublimated the questions. relax i have nothing against you. slow down and make a statement that answers the question. im not trying to piss you off i have no problem with that fact that we do not agree. .

From : budd cochran

transurgeon wrote thats your best shot a couple of quotes from anonymous sites whose authors use imprecise language well now your being as stupid as you accuse tbone of being. did you want me to post the entire list of sites which is in the thousands. if these site were so great you would have posted a link to start out with try to be nice to you and your still a stupid jerk. do a google search and start counting ............. come back when you are through ....... that should get rid of you for a few years. as to the word dense that is not my term but if you recall compressing is the act of making a material more dense came from budd. and exactly what is being made more dense this is the second time you or your buddy has made that claim and ive yet to see the answer and this is the third time ive told you i never used the word dense to explain anything. bullshit read my lips..... budd said and i quote compressing is the act of making a material more dense. now do you understand about the word dense where it came from and who used it or do i need to break out the crayons. but if you are right then you are right. but hes not yes he is and if you really think he is wrong your a idiot and if you know he is right then you are the fuck ball little troll you accuse him of being. pick your poison shade tree. thats the best youve got boy insults and name calling i guess it must be you sure as hell havent shown how to compress a cast-iron caliper.... .

From : budd cochran

look puppet and try to remember this for more than one post; you said i couldnt agree with a liberal on anything and i just made you a liar. now puppet lol now you are stealing my old name for max. at least you could be origional on occasion. now how did you make me a liar or are you just sundowning again puppet in this thread means you are just a brainwashed liberal puppet that has no desire to think for yourself . . . something max wouldf probably agree with. if you want to agree with anyone about anything thats up to you i dont care. oh yes you do. you care about everything that i say or do and have said so yourself. now who is the one that is a liar dont flatter yourself. im not interested in everything you say just the incorrect mechanical answers and political brainwashing tripe. btw i thought you were done with me another lie in the brake thread i am. because you gave up aw darn you quit just when it was getting good and your hole was nice and deep. you were wrong end of story but you are way to entertaining for me to give up on you completely. no i wasnt. but what else could i expect from someone that lies about having the equipment to perform measurable compressions on brake calipers and liquids while not understanding the brake fluid isnt compressed either. im glad i entertain you but it is getting to be quite a job for me to keep your misinformation from the group . . . i think you should start paying me minimum wage. budd .

From : budd cochran

sorry budd but the one here chasing me around is the true cyberstalker. i knew youd spin that. lol i just try to keep your lack of mechanical knowledge from getting someone dead. you were the one butting in to me on a conversation between me and theguy. which conversation was that one from a couple years ago that you refuse to leave aside so you can call it back at will as a weapon thats what you do so well. it is not the fact that the two of you agree that interests me it is your kissing up that i find amusing. then ask him if ive kissed up to him. i merely agreed with a few things which ive done in the past and you feel threatened by it. oh thats right cant bring up anything like theguy and i agreeing in the past as it proves what you really are. like i said you have no dignity. yes i do but i try to keep things on a level you can handle. as far as being done with you no way. you are far to entertaining to give up on. and youre too dangerous to give up on. the brake thread was pointless and there was nothing to be gained other than to watch gary cry some more so i bailed out and yes tom it did take a while - but im sure that we will have many more stunning conversations. what you found another braincell tripled your intelligence in one move . . .. right. but your phrasing agains demonstrates your real purpose and intent and the kind of person you really are. watching you make a fool out of yourself. lol quit looking in a mirror. btw what happened to max at least he has enough intelligence to keep it interesting. probably got tired of trying to teach you how dangerous you are with your lack of knowledge and incredibly poor accuracy. thats why i just try to contain your idiocy. budd .

From : budd cochran

sorry budd but you seem to live to attack me anymore. not that i mind since i find most of them funny but you really shouldnt make accusations for which you are every bit as guilty of as i am. poor little tom tom. caught in another lie. lol which fabricated lie are you talking about now the lie that im attacking you. im babysitting the groups resident mechanical political moron you. thats all im doing. its a nasty job but someone has to protect the innocent. you know you cant be done with me as you keep hoping to win an argument that only had to do with that thread. i will never be done with you budd you are way to much fun. perhaps some day you will grow a pair and be man enough to admit that you are as much at fault with this childish battle as i am but until then.... and some day you be mature enough to admit you arent any good as a mechanic and just a liberal puppet but i wont hold my breath waiting. . . .but you see tom as long as you open you mouth and say dumb things somebody not just me but somebody will call you out for it. sure budd keep thinking that. exactly what drugs are you on i would love to take a little trip in that fantasy world of yours. ah yes the liberal legalize drugs philosophy . . . tom if you took any one of my medications without a health related need youd be dead. and as soon as you find your point dulled you cry and call names. once again you accuse me of what you re doing. it is kinda funny and interesting watching the way your mind works when it actually does. i find it boring to watch you spin away from accepting responsibility for what you say. it just shows how incredibly cowardly and immature you are. budd .

From : miles

tbone wrote falling fast lol. they are coming down some but i would hardly call it falling fast. from $48 to $39 for ipe crude in just over one week is fast. .

From : tbone

look puppet and try to remember this for more than one post; you said i couldnt agree with a liberal on anything and i just made you a liar. now puppet lol now you are stealing my old name for max. at least you could be origional on occasion. now how did you make me a liar or are you just sundowning again puppet in this thread means you are just a brainwashed liberal puppet that has no desire to think for yourself . . . something max wouldf probably agree with. sort of like you being the right wing conservative puppet who kisses ass his whole life and has what to show for it sorry budd but the only true bitter puppet here is you. if you want to agree with anyone about anything thats up to you i dont care. oh yes you do. you care about everything that i say or do and have said so yourself. now who is the one that is a liar dont flatter yourself. im not interested in everything you say just the incorrect mechanical answers and political brainwashing tripe. yes you are and any way you want to spin it you said it and prove it at every opportunity. so i guess that makes you my new little puppet. btw i thought you were done with me another lie in the brake thread i am. because you gave up aw darn you quit just when it was getting good and your hole was nice and deep. keep dancing my little puppet. you were wrong end of story but you are way to entertaining for me to give up on you completely. no i wasnt. but what else could i expect from someone that lies about having the equipment to perform measurable compressions on brake calipers and liquids while not understanding the brake fluid isnt compressed either. what was that my little puppet are you misreading what i wrote. i said that i have the equipment to compress both brake calipers and even liquids but i dont have the equipment to measure the amount for liquids too expensive. what does brake fluid being compressed have to do with it anyway btw here is a link for you compliments of jerry. please read the name of the tool. that alone proves my point and once again you are as wrong as ever. http//www.automotivetoolsandsupplies.com/brakes-suspension/ats306701007.html im glad i entertain you but it is getting to be quite a job for me to keep your misinformation from the group . . . only in your tiny little mind. i think you should start paying me minimum wage. why should i pay you 10x more than anyone else. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

sorry budd but the one here chasing me around is the true cyberstalker. i knew youd spin that. no spin needed. just follow the thread. lol i just try to keep your lack of mechanical knowledge from getting someone dead. then i would suggest you stay away from anything built after 1980 and nore than 15 hp. you were the one butting in to me on a conversation between me and theguy. which conversation was that one from a couple years ago that you refuse to leave aside so you can call it back at will as a weapon thats what you do so well. yet more spin how about this one. as far as being done with you no way. you are far to entertaining to give up on. and youre too dangerous to give up on. the brake thread was pointless and there was nothing to be gained other than to watch gary cry some more so i bailed out and yes tom it did take a while - but im sure that we will have many more stunning conversations. what you found another braincell tripled your intelligence in one move . .. . right. gee now who is resorting to insults p.k.b. but your phrasing agains demonstrates your real purpose and intent and the kind of person you really are. no that would be you despite your desperate spin and lies. watching you make a fool out of yourself. lol quit looking in a mirror. yea i know but the person lookin back is just so cool and good looking - btw what happened to max at least he has enough intelligence to keep it interesting. probably got tired of trying to teach you how dangerous you are with your lack of knowledge and incredibly poor accuracy. thats why i just try to contain your idiocy. lol more like he got tired of defending your childish actions. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

sorry budd but you seem to live to attack me anymore. not that i mind since i find most of them funny but you really shouldnt make accusations for which you are every bit as guilty of as i am. poor little tom tom. caught in another lie. lol which fabricated lie are you talking about now the lie that im attacking you. im babysitting the groups resident mechanical political moron you. like i said before i take up just about every thought in that tiny little head of yours. i will take that as a compliment. you know you cant be done with me as you keep hoping to win an argument that only had to do with that thread. i will never be done with you budd you are way to much fun. perhaps some day you will grow a pair and be man enough to admit that you are as much at fault with this childish battle as i am but until then.... and some day you be mature enough to admit you arent any good as a mechanic and just a liberal puppet but i wont hold my breath waiting. sorry budd but i could run circles around you because unlike you i actually understand what im doing. . . .but you see tom as long as you open you mouth and say dumb things somebody not just me but somebody will call you out for it. sure budd keep thinking that. exactly what drugs are you on i would love to take a little trip in that fantasy world of yours. ah yes the liberal legalize drugs philosophy . . . tom if you took any one of my medications without a health related need youd be dead. lol i think that legalizing drugs is a dumb idea but it would make the gubberment a lot of money. lord knows we are doing a shit job in that war. perhaps that is where bushy baby should be starting wars in the countries that supply them to us. and as soon as you find your point dulled you cry and call names. once again you accuse me of what you re doing. it is kinda funny and interesting watching the way your mind works when it actually does. i find it boring to watch you spin away from accepting responsibility for what you say. it just shows how incredibly cowardly and immature you are. lol once again you accuse me of your own actions. if you are so bored why do you keep replying to me face it budd as much as you hate me you just look with all of your heart in here for a post from me. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote they have been but that is not the point. the fact that oil prices are now on the rise can be directly attributed to this poorly planned war. look again tbone before opening mouth. oil prices have been falling fast the past 2 weeks. falling fast lol. they are coming down some but i would hardly call it falling fast. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote falling fast lol. they are coming down some but i would hardly call it falling fast. from $48 to $39 for ipe crude in just over one week is fast. funny i didnt see that price this afternoon. it is more like $42. lets see what happens in the next week or so. i hope that they continue to fall. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote funny i didnt see that price this afternoon. it is more like $42. lets see what happens in the next week or so. i hope that they continue to fall. oil trades at quite a number of different markets for different types of oil. nymex crude is about $42 as of yesterday. ipe is $40 and dated brent is $40. ipe was at $49 last week. they bumped up a bit yesterday because there were unconfirmed reports of a pipeline fire in iraq. however the main pipeline feeding southern iraq ports is running at almost full capacity so well have to see what those reports are about. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote you keep making the claim but never back it up. perhaps that is because you cant. if you did you would only prove that just about everything that he has done or will do is for the wealthy. what has the oh so great ever done to help the poor besides oppress them who exactly is the oh so great lol what a complete load of shit. all of the forests in the us came to be without our help. why is it now that they need it you have a continued drought probably due to deforestation of the past. as for thinning the trees that is complete bullshit and you know it. there idea of thinning is to cut down all of the big healthy ones and leave the sick dying and underbrush right where it is or bulldoze it if it is in the way of the high $$$$$$ lumber. the funny thing is that it is the scrub brush and sick trees that are the primary cause of the fires next to your drought. but if there is nothing left to burn big trees it sorta becomes a non-issue since brush fires alone are easily contained. where do you get your crap what the forest service has been doing the past 2 years here in the sw is to take out the underbrush and overcrowded small trees. lol nice bait and switch. the logging companies that make these claims do no such thing. they like to use this bs to make a quick end-run around logging restrictions and nothing more. when the forest gets crammed thick the trees are small and weak. big trees are rare. lol yea because we cut them all down. take a drive through the az forests. the big trees are standing. the underbrush in many areas is gone. im sure that is true near the road. go back into those woods a bit and see what it looks like there. your political bias leads you away from even looking into whats being done. you make a statement devoid of any actual knowledge of whats been happening the past two years. lol did we forget why all of these laws exist i could care less about what he did in the senate just like i could care less what clinton reagan or bush did as governors. what matters is what he will do as president and what he has done as president for me and what i believe is right. so you base your vote only on what a canidate says he will do during his campaign that and what he has done in his last term. reagan was a friggen actor and got elected because carter screwed up and reagan had some good ideas. he got re-elected because he proved himself. since when does a president ever live up to his campaign no matter which side at least they need to try and i see none of that. he campaigned as a caring conservative and has shown none of that to those that need it. youre the dream voter the dems just love. easily swayed based on a few short months of campaign bs. and your the short sighted type that the right just loves. put a few dollars in your pocket and they own you. so have you but i am curious to see where it goes and what his plans for the future are. i look at kerrys 20 year voting record to know how he stands on various issues. his 180 degree about face on some issues is pure campaign bs. his 20 year record tells me what he will do if elected. he didnt change his stance while voting for 20 years why would i assume he will change now just more right wing spin. intelligent people change their minds when conditions change or when new information shown their initial decision to be flawed. it is easy to hide the reasons for the change and make it sound like he cant hold on anything. it is clear that the right are the masters of spin. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote where exactly do you draw the line perfection is not required nor does it exist here or anywhere else. for selecting a nation to the uns human rights council the line drawn is somewhere above extreme human rights abuse. no country below that line should be on the council. so because their leader is a complete pos that means that their cultural beliefs have no meaning -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : theguy

on wed 01 sep 2004 201026 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote tbone wrote where exactly do you draw the line perfection is not required nor does it exist here or anywhere else. for selecting a nation to the uns human rights council the line drawn is somewhere above extreme human rights abuse. no country below that line should be on the council. so because their leader is a complete pos that means that their cultural beliefs have no meaning tom i think that the problems may go beyond their leader. it wasnt the president that shot the soccer players for losing games. their president has been disposed and yet the abuse continues. any country that worships those that train children and women to strap explosives on their body so that they can kill themselves and others that dont believe the same way they do has some issues tom. if you would stop and think for a minute you would realize that. even then where did anyone say that their cultural beliefs have no meaning i never read that statement until you said it so does that mean that is what you believe .

From : tbone

on wed 01 sep 2004 201026 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote tbone wrote where exactly do you draw the line perfection is not required nor does it exist here or anywhere else. for selecting a nation to the uns human rights council the line drawn is somewhere above extreme human rights abuse. no country below that line should be on the council. so because their leader is a complete pos that means that their cultural beliefs have no meaning tom i think that the problems may go beyond their leader. it wasnt the president that shot the soccer players for losing games. no it was his son same difference. their president has been disposed and yet the abuse continues. really care to back that up. thats not what i have heard http//www.csmonitor.com/2003/1120/p01s02-woiq.html it seems things are better now for then anyway. now if you are talking about the rash of terrorism that has fallen in iraq well....thats a different story. any country that worships those that train children and women to strap explosives on their body so that they can kill themselves and others that dont believe the same way they do has some issues tom. if you would stop and think for a minute you would realize that. perhaps you would like to provide some links to this training of women and children in iraq preferably while saddam was in charge. even then where did anyone say that their cultural beliefs have no meaning i never read that statement until you said it so does that mean that is what you believe if they are excluded from these committees and processes then that is exactly what is being both said and done any way you try and spin it. funny but with this you just did the very thing that you accused me of in this thread said a whole lot of nothing. and this coming from the guy who said that they were done with this thread and that they were not going to get into an endless argument with me. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : roy

change mine every 5k with mobile one and heavy duty filter. keith t .

From : tbone

oh geez. this is the most unbelievable statement the left has made. and yes i say left because youre just repeating what the left keeps saying. kerry goes on and on and on about him and his 4 nam months and you have the nerve to whine about reps bringing the subject up sure do because the right wing started it. of course with our current presidents record or lack of one i can see why they need to resort to the oh so typical smear campaign. kerry made his nam months the key focal point during the convention. lol like he had a choice with the months of smear before the convention. first you whine that he doesnt defend it and then when he does you whine because thats all he talked about. make up your tiny little mind already. which is 4 months more experience than our current do nothing positive for the country president has done. btw i notice that you keep forgetting that he served two tours of duty compared to our current presidents none. two tours sorry tbone 4 months is not a tour. he ran when he could. say what you will but at least he went. can the same be said for our current president -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving . 222 288039 iofwc.184602$wh4.12212606@twister.southeast.rr.com tbone wrote not always but when they magically claim everything is good when it is not then yes it is usually politically motivated especially during an election year. btw the democrats are in power in nj so yes they do it too. so why do you view in only one way it is not only one way. that would be you with yur retarded ideas that the left can do no right while the right can do no wrong. when it shows things bad you agree with the reports and tout them that is because neither party wants to look bad so when the reports come out bad anyway you can bet that they are believable. when it shows things good you disagree with the reports and say theyre wrong and politically motivated. no when they are good i try and look at the big picture to make sure that they are valid. something that you seem incapable of doing. theyre right only if they agree with your views. no they are right when they agree with reality and currently the employment reports do not. regardless of what they say we are still down over a million jobs so the low numbers that they say are simply not valid any way that you want to spin it and the consumer index proves it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote that is because neither party wants to look bad so when the reports come out bad anyway you can bet that they are believable. muhahaha! just as i thought. the reports are valid only when they agree with your politically motivated views. otherwise they are wrong. lol thats not what i said even with your spin. it has become sad that your arguments have failed so badly that you need to resort to this. i did say both parties so what could it possibly have to do with any politically motivated viewpoint no they are right when they agree with reality and currently the employment reports do not. regardless of what they say we are still down over a million jobs so the low numbers that they say are simply not valid any way that you want to spin it and the consumer index proves it. down a million jobs from what level the peak if thats what you believe then i understand your warped views. call it what you want but peak or not that is still 1000000+ people that were working that now are not. lets test tbones comprehension. why does the unemployment rate not directly correspond to the jobs gained/lost numbers because of key assumptions that are used in its formulation. i explained this many times and of course you always delete it because as much as you hate it you know that i am right. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

gfrfan wrote as far as tax cuts i have seen little in the way of cuts for me and my peers. i have seen my property taxes and sales taxes skyrocket while property taxes for people who can afford brand new $300000 houses have been abated while valuable cropland is gobbled up and existing home values drop. property taxes have indeed gone up here in az too. not sure how thats bushs fault but im sure the left will figure a way. theyve gone up for the expensive homes too since in most states it is a straight tax based on appraised values. they rate itself has gone up. they do not single out certain homes and abate taxes for the wealthy property. i dont know where you live but just about everywhere in the usa property values have risen sharply the last few years. if they have dropped in your area then you are certainly not the norm. .

From : milesmiles

tbone wrote lol none of this happened until after the right wing tried to smear kerryd record but even with this vacation they still dont have a multi-million dollar book deal backing them likre the other lying assholes. oh i see. youre blind to a multi-million dollar movie as well as multi million dollar commercials running from independent left funded groups. youre beginning to really show your political bias in the most blind of ways. the lead author in the bogus swift boat crap said that kerrys signature was not on it but he was sure that kerry wrote it. kerry wrote the citation. nobody but you is attempting to argue that point. sure do because the right wing started it. of course with our current presidents record or lack of one i can see why they need to resort to the oh so typical smear campaign. right wing started it geez are you nuts. kerry has been bragging about his war months over and over from the start. when he is questioned on his own words you lefties say why does the right bring up the war. this is just hysterical. sorry tbone kerry brought his war months up long before the reps said much of anything but go right on ahead and whine anyways. lol like he had a choice with the months of smear before the convention. first you whine that he doesnt defend it and then when he does you whine because thats all he talked about. make up your tiny little mind already. he has yet to defend his record. he refuses to tell the dod to release the records. he refuses to answer the questions but he has asked for campaign reform to stop ads that are against him. funny he never said a word about similar ads against bush from similar funded groups. say what you will but at least he went. can the same be said for our current president funny how military experience was unimportant through the 90s to the left but now all of a sudden it is so if it is then i will ask question on kerrys statements that base his campaign on his 4 nam months. you and kerry both refuse to answer them. .

From : tbone

gfrfan wrote as far as tax cuts i have seen little in the way of cuts for me and my peers. i have seen my property taxes and sales taxes skyrocket while property taxes for people who can afford brand new $300000 houses have been abated while valuable cropland is gobbled up and existing home values drop. property taxes have indeed gone up here in az too. not sure how thats bushs fault but im sure the left will figure a way. is this your way of covering for the bush screw-up now lets see how about a huge tax cut ant the same time he puts the country to war costing billions per year. now how are we going to pay for this....i know...we will cut back on federal aid to the states. funny thing about that though the states still need that money to repair and maintain roads schools parks police and fire departments and the countless other thing that they do. now where is that money going to come from......i know....they will raise property taxes. of course if the republicans are in charge in a particular town they will just re-asses the property value and then claim that they did not raise taxes lol. theyve gone up for the expensive homes too since in most states it is a straight tax based on appraised values. and there is the key if they dont reappraise the more valuable homes the taxes dont go up unless they raise the rate. they rate itself has gone up. they do not single out certain homes and abate taxes for the wealthy property. lol sure they do. if they raise the rate then no everybody pays but if they do it by reassessment then only the house reassessed for higher values wind up paying more. the advantage or the reassessment method is that they can technically say that they did not raise taxes because they did not raise the rate. i dont know where you live but just about everywhere in the usa property values have risen sharply the last few years. if they have dropped in your area then you are certainly not the norm. they have held steady here and may actually have dropped but that is because they are building the damn things faster than they can sell them and you know how supply and demand deals with that. they are beginning to run out of land here so that will soon change $$$$$$$$. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

lol you are truly a business novice. youve never heard of the demand going far beyond market test results have you or test market test rusults not including half a state when the planned market was to be one small city lol so what having orders beyond production capability is usually a good thing. why would you ever need to expand if this were not true expansion needs planning or it can ruin a business. besides too many orders for a part time business is not good for customer relations. then like i said poor planning on your part caused the buisness to fail. poor planning huh you werent there you cannot know what transpired. btw to choose to close rather than expand without evidence that the business would continue to grow that is go several thousands in debt on a market not determined to be viable andd stable is good business operation. ive seen several small businesses fail by expanding where there was no stable market. and it was also my choice to make to not risk my familys security on that unstable market. i had the credit line for the loans i had space available on a free loan basis and i had a line of tools located but the choice to close was my choice based on the fact there wasnt any concrete evidence of stability. to leave when on top is not failure. in the first case the tests showed a potential for sales volume of only about $5k / mo. when it went over $10k my supplier couldnt meet the demand. iow it wasnt my fault. yes it was for having only one supplier to begin with. you also didnt set up you test cases properly to be 100% off on your numbers lol. idiot. i was under contract with only one supplier and there was an exclusion clause in the contract they refused to drop. as a result i could close the business reopen with another supplier or close the business completely. no other options. idiot am i and who was the one who signed a contract with no escape clause for the supplier not being able to keep up with demand. again tom you werent there at the time. for you to continue judging my actions as you have is very presumptious of you if not plain rude. the clause at the time and in the location of their headquarters was legal. in the second case i planned for homemade wooden toys to be sold locally and while that lasted no probs. had about $4k in sales /mo. when relaitives from across the state of my local customers started ordering i was caught without the tooling and equipment. i guess it would be my fault if you call using my profits to live on my fault since i didnt plan on expanding any. it was to be part time only tom. this makes no since. why would being unable to fill orders put you out of business. you were obviously charging too little if you had no money to expand with and a bad business plan. why didnt you just refuse some of the orders your comprehension skills are extremely lacking ya know. it was part time!!!! so what what does that have to do with anything you wouldnt understand tom. i could put it in pictures and it would mean nothing to you. it was after my heart surgery and i was still recovering so i couldnt upgrade production. i couldnt afford on part time money buy bigger bandsaws drill presses etc. then you should have raised your prices to either reduce demand of give you the funding to upgrade equipment. btw what type of toys did you make see you missed the clue. tell us tom what is so hard about recovering from heart surgery do you not understand could it be you missed that part because of your own lust for money what freaking part of that cant you understand idiot lol now budd calm down and take a chill pill. we dont want to send you back to the hospital over something like this. well gee tom. maybe if you could learn to remember for more than 30 seconds whats been said figure out how get help if needed to understand what has been said and learn how to continue a conversation without backstabs and nips about various things you consider to be weapons to protect your ego there would be no need for a chill pill. sorry budd but both of these things were your fault because neither one had a any type of plan to deal with the unexpected. you are a complete waste of time. you have no desire to really have a conversation because it would require you to comprehend what the other person was saying and build the conversation based on that. but you cant or worse dont want to. sorry budd but you were the one starting up on this rant. i was simply saying that since an able bodied man with a family and a good work ethic you was unable to find work the right wing garbage of the only ones out of work are just lazy is a load of shit. and im attempting to get it thru your brainwashed skull that the economy of the nation lags a few years behind any one presidential term. the lack of jobs at the time was

From : budd cochran

i didnt have to here your rant was a perfect self description. if you were to look back in the history of this group who was the one who attacks the most newbies. answer you. just about everything that you accuse me of you do yourelf. and usually far more than i do. and if youd look a bit closer youd find the ones that caught the most flack were trolls just like you. really then why was it you that got chased from the group twice i guess that you are right the trolls do get the most flack - only in your mind tom only in your mind. as well as reality budd. then accept reality tom. it was in your mind it happened. btw you also missed where i attacked to shut a troll up then reasoned with him and then helped him become a contributing member of the group. his screen name was f-350. and that makes what one out of a thousand that you attack no more like one of about 7 or so ive helped. the others were smarter than you and left being as they were just trolling and not here for info. oh so thats how it is. unless they come here to only ask the group regulars and offer no opinion of their own you allow them to stay. and you have been the group net nannie for how long opinions are welcomed flaming general attacks are not. after all it is a discussion group is it not oh well it just continues to show how childish and pathetic you really are once again budd go back and look at who does the most name calling and outright unprovoked attacks on others. why that would be you with your profanity and profane names like fucker asshole and the like. notice i only quoted them. lol yea against who redrag and who is the one who starts that all of the time. btw who is the one who insults anothers mother. after things said about me you still carry a grudge over something that i apologized for . . . you are a small person emnotionally. grow up. not at all budd i accepted your apology but like they say those in glass houses.... yes please remember that the next time you drag up past sins of mine that i have be forgiven of. theyre not yours to remind me of and will be ignored from now on. fair enough. 1. someone asked how to get their ram into low range without engaging the front axle. i said to simply disconnect the vacuum connector from the front axle. you jumped in screaming that it could destroy the truck blow up the engine get himself killed which was all complete bs. tom l. even popped in and said that this was the way to do it but i should have mentioned to plug the vacuum lines and he was correct. i assumed that anyone disconnecting a vacuum line would automatically plug it up but even if they didnt none of the things that you said would even remotely happen and these lines do get pulled and fall off and there are no reports of vehicle explosions due to it in existence. iirc i have often admitted i am not expert on newer trucks but i was right that if the vacuum line was left open it could and would cause damage and be possibly dangerous to operate vacuum power brakes need vacuum ya know lol it would cause no damage and you have nothing to back that stupid claim up. as for the power brakes lol there would not be enough of a loss to even effect them. at least you admit that you are not an exper on newer trucks and this just confirms that. drive a vehicle with a large vacuum leak tom and then get back to me ok and thats the problem budd it would not be a large vacuum leak. like i said pull a equivalent sized line off one of your vehicles and drive it. ill wait. strike one. for you. childish. just following your lead. just keeping it on your level tom. youre already confused enough. 2. during the bs tornado discussion you came up with the ingenious idea that the intake and exhaust gasses are moving at the same speed and volume. you based this on some previous discussion that you had with either denny or mac that i dont ever remember seeing. unless your engine is doing nothing more than a compressor would do this is impossible. need i say more yes try the truth. i never said they were moving at the same speed. i did calculate some intake flow speeds that you could not grasp with your limited and defective math education. btw it was max340 iirc. now you are just lying. while max was in the discussion he was not the one that you mentioned in the discussion where you calculated exhaust gas speeds. without the combustion process which was not part of the discussion an enginme is just an air pump and the volume of flow out will be withing a small percentage of flow in. the problem is that it is an engine that does have a combustion process so your caculations in regard to our discussion were meaningless and incorrect. once the intake valve closes there is no connection to the

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol none of this happened until after the right wing tried to smear kerryd record but even with this vacation they still dont have a multi-million dollar book deal backing them likre the other lying assholes. oh i see. youre blind to a multi-million dollar movie as well as multi million dollar commercials running from independent left funded groups. youre beginning to really show your political bias in the most blind of ways. lol now lets talk about that. as for the movie it was in production long before this election year probably due in part to the questionable way he got the office and was released for profit and made him a shit load of money. it was for entertainment as much as anything else. as for the independent left funded groups sure they are there just like the ones on the right but they have nothing to do with his shipmates trying to help him out and if you say so prove it. the lead author in the bogus swift boat crap said that kerrys signature was not on it but he was sure that kerry wrote it. kerry wrote the citation. nobody but you is attempting to argue that point. oh yea perhaps you should watch cnn every now and then. sure do because the right wing started it. of course with our current presidents record or lack of one i can see why they need to resort to the oh so typical smear campaign. right wing started it geez are you nuts. kerry has been bragging about his war months over and over from the start. from the start of what when he is questioned on his own words you lefties say why does the right bring up the war. this is just hysterical. sorry tbone kerry brought his war months up long before the reps said much of anything but go right on ahead and whine anyways. yea sure keep dreaming. lol like he had a choice with the months of smear before the convention. first you whine that he doesnt defend it and then when he does you whine because thats all he talked about. make up your tiny little mind already. he has yet to defend his record. he refuses to tell the dod to release the records. really he refuses to answer the questions but he has asked for campaign reform to stop ads that are against him. funny he never said a word about similar ads against bush from similar funded groups. as usual you have it ass backwards. kerry specifically denounced an attack add on bushs military record or lack there of and the next day during a conference asked bush to do the same. bush of course being the coward that he is refused and instead made the suggestion that all soft money adds be stopped. funny how he is all for it campaign reform when the left is generating 3 times the money for them than the right but had no trouble with soft money during the gore campaign when he was getting the lions share go figure. say what you will but at least he went. can the same be said for our current president funny how military experience was unimportant through the 90s to the left but now all of a sudden it is lol perhaps because times are different now and because the right is making a big deal out of it. to bad your man doesnt have any. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote perhaps because this single add is questioning the mans honor something our current president should be careful of doing and it made the national circuit. as it very well should since kerry made his war months a key convention/campaign focal point. why wont kerry ask the dod to release his records on the matter surely there is lots of good stuff kerry is proud of in there. the guy spent years bashing nam vets talked about the atrocities carried out by him and others denounced the war helped others avoid the war. while he was in nam he was in a position to speak up against these atrocities and did nothing. he has 3 purple hearts for which he never bled more than stopped by a bandaid. and now he says to vote for him because he is a war hero you bet i will question this guys honor because he hasnt shown any to me yet. and with people such as yourself his tactics are not winning much support from those he is attempting to sway. and when he initially tried to do that the extreme right wing like yourself made big deal of accusing him of trying to hide the truth. when he tried to look beyond it you made a big deal out of it and when he tried to defend himself you make a big deal out of that too. i guess thats the way that it is with the long practiced and perfected right wing smear tactics. damned if you do and damned if you dont. rofl!! nobody made a big deal about this one puny ad until kerry started bitching about it. if kerry is for free speach and following the constitution then why is he making so much noise about getting this puny ad pulled i dont hear kerry renouncing the moveon.org ads nor do i hear bush yelling at kerry to ask that they be pulled. .

From : milesh

tbone wrote perhaps because this single add is questioning the mans honor something our current president should be careful of doing and it made the national circuit. as a side note ust saw cnn reporting that bush has denounced all so called 527 attack ads directed at either side. lets see if kerry will do the same rather than just singling out ads he doesnt like. .

From : budd cochran

i bet he doesnt. budd tbone wrote perhaps because this single add is questioning the mans honor something our current president should be careful of doing and it made the national circuit. as a side note ust saw cnn reporting that bush has denounced all so called 527 attack ads directed at either side. lets see if kerry will do the same rather than just singling out ads he doesnt like. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote perhaps because this single add is questioning the mans honor something our current president should be careful of doing and it made the national circuit. as a side note ust saw cnn reporting that bush has denounced all so called 527 attack ads directed at either side. lets see if kerry will do the same rather than just singling out ads he doesnt like. i saw a brief me mention of that a short time ago and will see the full story later tonight. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : gfrfan

miles wrote gfrfan wrote as far as tax cuts i have seen little in the way of cuts for me and my peers. i have seen my property taxes and sales taxes skyrocket while property taxes for people who can afford brand new $300000 houses have been abated while valuable cropland is gobbled up and existing home values drop. property taxes have indeed gone up here in az too. not sure how thats bushs fault but im sure the left will figure a way. theyve skyrocketed because school road and public safety funding has to come from somewhere. theyve gone up for the expensive homes too since in most states it is a straight tax based on appraised values. they rate itself has gone up. they do not single out certain homes and abate taxes for the wealthy property. here if you can afford one of the $300000 houses and buy it now you get a 5 year tax abatement. no property tax for 5 years. get it. no way ill ever be able to afford that but thats a different topic. im not jealous. my property taxes go up so the wealthy dont have to pay to live in america . i dont know where you live but just about everywhere in the usa property values have risen sharply the last few years. if they have dropped in your area then you are certainly not the norm. yeah they have gone up. but the property taxes on existing houses have gone up more in proportion. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol perhaps because times are different now and because the right is making a big deal out of it. to bad your man doesnt have any. the right is a puny little ad that was run on only 3 public tv stations and a few cable stations has caused more talk than the multi-million $ ads bashing bush. perhaps because this single add is questioning the mans honor something our current president should be careful of doing and it made the national circuit. quite the leap there from this single add is questioning the mans honor to something our current president should be careful of doing considering his own questionable service record or lack of such he should be very careful on where he positions himself. you want to explain the connection between the two or are you doing your usually throw bullshit and run thing to say that he respects kerrys service and yet refuses to renounce adds that belittle that service makes the president look like a two faced liar that wants others to do his dirty work. is that enough of a connection for you -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : transurgeon

to say that he respects kerrys service and yet refuses to renounce adds that belittle that service makes the president look like a two faced liar that wants others to do his dirty work. is that enough of a connection for you well he has called for an end to all such ads will your boy kerry do the same .

From : transurgeon

i think that he did at least some of the records but i wouldnt re;ease anything to the right wing spin masters either. why not got something to hide .

From : tbone

tbone wrote perhaps because this single add is questioning the mans honor something our current president should be careful of doing and it made the national circuit. as it very well should since kerry made his war months a key convention/campaign focal point. no the right did that for him. why wont kerry ask the dod to release his records on the matter i think that he did at least some of the records but i wouldnt re;ease anything to the right wing spin masters either. funny how you say that he should keep quiet and brag at the same time. maybe someday you will be able to make up your mind. the guy spent years bashing nam vets talked about the atrocities carried out by him and others denounced the war helped others avoid the war. while he was in nam he was in a position to speak up against these atrocities and did nothing. lol yea right. if he did he would probably be dead. he has 3 purple hearts for which he never bled more than stopped by a bandaid. which are three more injuries than our current president has you know the one who put our soldiers in a situation that he was unwilling to do. and now he says to vote for him because he is a war hero funny i dont recall his saying that. you bet i will question this guys honor because he hasnt shown any to me yet. the same can be said for our currnt president. and with people such as yourself his tactics are not winning much support from those he is attempting to sway. lol neither are you for bush with this right wing crap. and when he initially tried to do that the extreme right wing like yourself made big deal of accusing him of trying to hide the truth. when he tried to look beyond it you made a big deal out of it and when he tried to defend himself you make a big deal out of that too. i guess thats the way that it is with the long practiced and perfected right wing smear tactics. damned if you do and damned if you dont. rofl!! nobody made a big deal about this one puny ad until kerry started bitching about it. lol i guess that you dont watch the . if kerry is for free speach and following the constitution then why is he making so much noise about getting this puny ad pulled because it is a lie and you have no proof otherwise except for the word of the author who has proved himself to be a liar or a right wing doctor who also has no proof. i dont hear kerry renouncing the moveon.org ads nor do i hear bush yelling at kerry to ask that they be pulled. once again you see only what you want to see and reality be damned. kerry has renounced at least one add and challenged bush to do the same. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote lol look at what has been going on so far without an ounce of actual proof. ya i know. kerry has yet to prove a thing he has said on the issue. not one swift boat operator agrees with his story. heck kerrys current story doesnt even agree entirely with his own story he gave the senate hearing committee decades ago. .

From : budd cochran

budd quoting ross perot - im all ears! groan 58k on the engine 8k on wires. carb rebuild what carb rebuild lol!!! gee do ya think we might start there if its the carter 2-bbl found on most of the 318s then its a simple rebuild just get a kit a bucket of carb soak i like chemtool as its water soluble biodegradeable and it works a can or two of carb cleaner spray some good tools youll definitely need two flare nut wrenches in 1/2 x 9/16 and good screwdrivers and a source of 30 psi air. if its the military unit buy a rebuilt carb for a 1977 w-150 with 318. follow the directions on the repair kit and set the fuel level carefully at the specification or within 1/16 below not over. a set good starting points for your adjustment screws idle mixture lightly bottom with fingers only and back out 2 turns then run in clockwise 1/2 turn preloads the spring to lock the adjustment in place. curb idle speed the one not in line with the fast idle cam back out till it does not touch the boss on the carb run it in till it just barely touches then 2 turns in clockwise. this should get you running carb wise. a couple of points though. according to my m-886 manual the top speed of this vehicle

From : tbone

tbone wrote no the right did that for him. you must not have watched much of the convention. especially the night kerry appeared. not to mention kerrys speaches leading up to the convention. funny how it seems the left pays less attention to what kerry has said and done and is saying now than the reps. ya the reps made his nam months the focal point...har har. why wont kerry ask the dod to release his records on the matter i think that he did at least some of the records 6 pages out of several 100 pages from one document were released. thats it. funny how you say that he should keep quiet and brag at the same time. maybe someday you will be able to make up your mind. i have made up my mind. if what he is saying is the truth then he should be proud of his records and release them. if he is bsing as it looks like then he will do better to keep his mouth shut. lol yea right. if he did he would probably be dead. then he is a coward for letting it go on then coming back to bash the others he left behind. which are three more injuries than our current president has not comparing his medals to bushs. kerry is the one bragging about them so im talking about kerry and kerry alone. so many others go cut to shreds given a purple heart patched back up and returned to the combat zone. kerry spent 90 days in the combat zone then fled. because it is a lie and you have no proof otherwise thats why kerry wants to silence those running the ad if thats true then why wont he silence those putting ads out against bush i know everything against bush is true everything against kerry is a lie. what lengths the left will go to! out of 13 swift boat operators 12 tell the same story and one differs. that one is kerry. even stranger is the account written decades ago that was co-authored by one of the swift boat operators and kerry himself. kerrys story today does not match what he told years ago during the senate hearings. the guy is a liar and its coming back to haunt him. thats why he wants this ad silenced. .

From : tbone

i think that he did at least some of the records but i wouldnt re;ease anything to the right wing spin masters either. why not lol look at what has been going on so far without an ounce of actual proof. i could just imagine what they would do if they actually found a reprimand for something. got something to hide everybody has something to hide gary even you. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

which are three more injuries than our current president has you know the one who put our soldiers in a situation that he was unwilling to do. clinton did the same and you praised him. hypocrite. budd where when exactly what war were we in during clintons time in office -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

i knew it.. the spin starts... the answer was there...i cant help it if you cant comprehend shit. now just back on out like a good troll. oh...and if one of the local stations agrees to this i will sweeten the deal... if it works and we all know it wont i will appologize on the station for calling you a fucking snake oil salesman...hows that now...you want to spin that 0807am mr. steve@carolinabreezehvac states regarding his apparent willingness to provide his fleet to assess enviromaxplus a local tv station will record the results and will put the results together in a segment that they run that proves or dis-proves scams on 082304 at 1011am i then asked steve@carolinabreezehvac the question regarding the television station what are their call letters out of what city do they broadcast who is the individual with the station that i can contact on 082304 at 635 pm steve@carolinabreezehvac responded to that specific inquiry kinda...sorta...i have already contacted the 4 stations i had in mind and all 4 are interested since this is an odd case where an person like myself is willing to play guniea pig for the sake of proving this stuff wont work. they really got interested when i told them we could run out 5 tanks in one of the hemis in 2 days....and the anglia would be a perfect candidate for the test as well...i mean...4mpg is 4mpg...the stations i contacted actually cover most of nc...one station i contacted is in southern ca....i know a few people there....and seeing as how fuel prices there are so high..well...lets say i might be on to something. huh . . . duh you made the representation that you had a tv station lined up to oversee this test of enviromaxplus. i merely asked for some contact info not a bunch of gooblydgook. where is it jon moser http//home.earthlink.net/jonnymo1/ ================================== steve@carolinabreezehvac steve@removethis.carolinabreezehvac.com wrote steve@carolinabreezehvac steve@removethis.carolinabreezehvac.com wrote i have the ultimate test for you. i will run the product for two weeks in our service vans. these vans average now about 12mpg loaded. some weeks each truck will burn 2 perhaps 3 full tanks of fuel depending on the work load and locations. each tank is an average of 30 gallons. various makes one is carbed the rest of fi and various engine configs...inline 6s v-8s various displacements 400cid 350 cid 318 360.... you send enough product for a two week test trial. the initial start to the test will start the following monday after the product is received. a local tv station will record the results and will put the results together in a segment that they run that proves or dis-proves scams. either way you get a copy of the tape and everyone here can get a link that will put them to the vid. you agree in advance that your company will be insured with proof of insurance to cover any and all claims resulting from damage to the engine fuel system or any emissions related parts due to the use of this product. if it works you have one hell of a marketing tool. if it fails you have lot of splainin ta do and if you decline well..that says loads... if i was a betting man i would bet that you will find a way to decline this or spin it into something else. i mean...i can back up the products i sell...even put guarantees in addition to the factory warranty and stand behind them...the question is after all this spamming in here can you will you of course not you dont make the product...right lol well...since i dont expect you to take that offer thanks for reading but if you wont accept it simply post that you decline and leave the group. thank you i welcome the opportunity. for the number of miles that your vehicles are being driven as i project them out a two week test would be fair. but lets get a few items clarified. if you mean you set the rules no way. since in the real world where your product will be working its gonna be real world testing... slick50 agreed to it and look at that lawsuit.... given the 12 mpg average figure i presume that each of your service vans is running from around 1400 to 2200 miles per two week period correct that would mean each one typically requires somewhere in the range of 115 to 185 gallons of fuel over that time frame right depends...but the numbers are close. sometimes more sometimes less..the new dodge that is about 4 months old and had 230 miles on it when we bought it now has over 16000 miles on it. how many vehicles are in your fleet currently 10. will the vans be operated under the same basic circumstances during the pre test compared to the post test phase that is can you make the assurance there would be no meaningful differences in city versus road driving in terms of who is driving the vans that they would carry essentially

From : milesh

tbone wrote and neither has bush that is until kerry called him to the carpet. of course he wants all the adds banned he is getting killed in the money spent alone by the left. funny that kerry is getting creamed by one puny low budget ad. .

From : milesh

tbone wrote i alreay did below...oh look...you deleted it again imagine that. you did nothing of the sort. geez bonehead your unsubstantiated unrelated rhetoric are not key assumptions that are used in the formulation to determine unemployment or job loss/gained. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote of course if the republicans are in charge in a particular town they will just re-asses the property value and then claim that they did not raise taxes lol. and there is the key if they dont reappraise the more valuable homes the taxes dont go up unless they raise the rate. ah but in most of the country they most certainly have given new appraised values for the more valuable homes. why because thats where they can get the most tax $s out of doing so. geez tbone could you spin your own rhetoric any more than this lol got any proof to back this up. i didnt think so. lol sure they do. if they raise the rate then no everybody pays but if they do it by reassessment then only the house reassessed for higher values wind up paying more. they do not reassess individual homes bonehead. lol care to put some money on that. they do it on a county wide basic regardless of how much the homes are worth in a particular area. hahahahahahaha complete bs and probably not even legal. larger homes have gone up the most. why because many counties used to value a 2nd or 3rd story at a lower rate than the 1st story because it is cheaper to build additional stories. now they value them here based on square footage regardless of actual value. because the square footage usually determis the value and i bet that your house iv valued for much less than you could sell it for. the advantage or the reassessment method is that they can technically say that they did not raise taxes because they did not raise the rate. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote because of key assumptions that are used in its formulation. such as typical left and their secret formulas for this and that. there is nothing secret about it. i explained this many times and of course you always delete it because as much as you hate it you know that i am right. the unemployment numbers do not correlate with jobs created/lost because they are looking at two different things. when jobs peaked alot of people went to work that normally would not do so. they were never counted in the unemployment figures but were counted in the jobs created and lost. these are people that arent looking for work for whatever reason but took an opportunist market advantage for a quick $. well you did get it half right in your typical half truth way. when the employment explosion took off the unemployment figures dont take that into account because as you said many of these people were never working to begin with or had not been working for the period of time it takes to drop them from the workforce. this is also why during clintons strong growth period the unemployment rate did not show any outstandingly low numbers even though you tried to spin it to mean something else. where you got it wrong is that once they take a job for whatever reason they became part of the work force and were counted. when they economy began its downturn they began lose these jobs and collect unemployment which caused the unemployment numbers to rise. the funny thing is that many of them remained unemployed for so long they were considered no longer part of the workforce and the unemployment rate falls even though they are still out of work. ya know boner you seem to disregard %s and other figures except when you can use them to support your warped views. back to name calling i see. i guess that shows the strength of your argument. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote no the right did that for him. you must not have watched much of the convention. especially the night kerry appeared. not to mention kerrys speaches leading up to the convention. funny how it seems the left pays less attention to what kerry has said and done and is saying now than the reps. ya the reps made his nam months the focal point...har har. they certainly did. even before it was known who had the best chance in the democratic party the right was spinning their bs about how we need a military leader and the dems would be too wimpy. when it was becoming clear that kerry was going to be the one the smear campaign jumped into high gear because now they had a war veteran on the other side and that would cause their whole military leader needed campaign to backfire on them. why wont kerry ask the dod to release his records on the matter i think that he did at least some of the records 6 pages out of several 100 pages from one document were released. thats it. the big question at the time was the purple heart and he released those records and btw those were 6 more pages than bush released. funny how you say that he should keep quiet and brag at the same time. maybe someday you will be able to make up your mind. i have made up my mind. if what he is saying is the truth then he should be proud of his records and release them. if he is bsing as it looks like then he will do better to keep his mouth shut. the same could be said for bush but those records magically seemed to be destroyed. no matter what he does miles you and others like you are completely closed minded and are going to feel the same way regardless of what he does so what is the point. lol yea right. if he did he would probably be dead. then he is a coward for letting it go on then coming back to bash the others he left behind. were you in nam miles and if not who are you to say one way or the other. who dont you ask someone who was there and in combat what would have happened. which are three more injuries than our current president has not comparing his medals to bushs. of course not bush doesnt have any. kerry is the one bragging about them so im talking about kerry and kerry alone. of course you are. your head is so far up bushs ass you can see no wrong from him no matter what he does. instead you whine about what may have happened 40 years ago because thats all you have. so many others go cut to shreds given a purple heart patched back up and returned to the combat zone. kerry spent 90 days in the combat zone then fled. yawn were you there yea he got out as soon as he could. that is not suprising considering that like many he didnt want to go in the first place nd we never should have been there anyway. because it is a lie and you have no proof otherwise thats why kerry wants to silence those running the ad if thats true then why wont he silence those putting ads out against bush i know everything against bush is true everything against kerry is a lie. what lengths the left will go to! he has and has challenged bush to do it as well. why do you think that bush is finally starting to do it. kerry challenged him to do it a few days ago after renouncing attacks on bushs military record and when bush refused kerry simply said that the fact that he didnt shows the kind of man that he is. i guess that message hit home because now he is but as many of the dems are saying too little too late. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : theguy

for the blocks ive seen aftermarket 4x4 lift stuff have all been iron/steel. not aluminum. i have a pair of 6 blocks not in use anymore they do cause axle wrap they are easy to install new u-bolts are a couple dollars a piece they have pinion rotation engineered into the block. the stock spring pin is still used to locate the diff and the block has its own pin that sits in the original hole on the diff and a hole on top to accept the spring pack. the rear of my 2000 ram van 3500 camper roadtrek 190p is lower than i prefer. i am considering installing lift blocks between the springs and the axle. i have seen them on ram 4x4 and they look pretty simple. is it just a simple matter of lifting the van using the frame and loosing the u-bolt nuts enough to insert the spacer blocks is there anything i should be aware of that may screw up will i have a problem with the springs or axle moving where is a good point to lift i was considering the rear spring mount is lifting it one inch noticeable or should i go for two if i use one inch i may be able to use the existing u-bolts. if i have to replace the u bolts does that make the job much more difficultallowing things to move around more does anyone know where i can find iron/steel blocks i have only been able to find aluminum so far. does anyone think that aluminum is ok im not sure. thanks for any response/comments bill -- . 222 288130 wobwc.32095$9y6.15838@read1..pas.earthlink.net steve@carolinabreezehvac steve@removethis.carolinabreezehvac.com wrote i knew it.. the spin starts... the answer was there...i cant help it if you cant comprehend shit. now just back on out like a good troll. oh...and if one of the local stations agrees to this i will sweeten the deal... if it works and we all know it wont i will appologize on the station for calling you a fucking snake oil salesman...hows that now...you want to spin that no you appear to be doing the spinning quite well under your own power. you dont need any help from me. too bad that you resort to profanities and insults. .

From : budd cochran

on tue 24 aug 2004 043306 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote i dont think we got a great choice in this election but the demos blew it when they nominated kerry. they had a chance to take the white house and they chose to play the middle they chose a candidate who looks good but stands for nothing. kerry sucks. oh god . . . we agree on something. quick somebody call hell and check on their weather. i think they just had a cold spell. budd .

From : budd cochran

well you did get it half right in your typical half truth way. when the employment explosion took off the unemployment figures dont take that into account because as you said many of these people were never working to begin with or had not been working for the period of time it takes to drop them from the workforce. this is also why during clintons strong growth period the unemployment rate did not show any outstandingly low numbers even though you tried to spin it to mean something else. where you got it wrong is that once they take a job for whatever reason they became part of the work force and were counted. when they economy began its downturn they began lose these jobs and collect unemployment which caused the unemployment numbers to rise. the funny thing is that many of them remained unemployed for so long they were considered no longer part of the workforce and the unemployment rate falls even though they are still out of work. tom while double checking the yugoslavia answer i discovered a report from abc about the clinton era. in it clinton had one of his aides do a poll of congress concerning his performance in creating jobs. i find it rather apropos that a liberal congress didnt believe his claims of creating 3 million jobs and when he insisted to the aide that it was 3.5m jobs the aide told him to concentrate on his small gains and not the big ones to sell the small gains to help his re-election. just thought that would put a burr under your saddle. ^ budd .

From : miles

tbone wrote because of key assumptions that are used in its formulation. such as typical left and their secret formulas for this and that. there is nothing secret about it. by all means then tell us what these key assumptions that are used in its formulation. back to name calling i see. i guess that shows the strength of your argument. youre such a hypocrite bonehead. you call people names here quite often when it suits your need. ya i know someone else did it first so its not your fault. .

From : miles

tbone wrote they do not reassess individual homes bonehead. lol care to put some money on that. sure will. in most states the appraised value is based on average selling price of homes in an area and the square footage of them. you think some guy drives around a city and walks around and inside every home in the city to do an individual appraisal they do it on a county wide basic regardless of how much the homes are worth in a particular area. hahahahahahaha complete bs and probably not even legal. yep you really do think some guy drives around to every single house to do an individual appraisal. maybe in a very small town but that would be the exception and not the rule. because the square footage usually determis the value and i bet that your house iv valued for much less than you could sell it for. a 2000 sf single story home generally will sell for more than a 2000 sf two story home. for decades here the county appraised a single story home at a higher factor than a two story home. that changed last year effectively raising the taxes on all multi-story homes. .

From : budd cochran

on tue 24 aug 2004 043306 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote tbone wrote no the right did that for him. you must not have watched much of the convention. especially the night kerry appeared. not to mention kerrys speaches leading up to the convention. funny how it seems the left pays less attention to what kerry has said and done and is saying now than the reps. ya the reps made his nam months the focal point...har har. they certainly did. even before it was known who had the best chance in the democratic party the right was spinning their bs about how we need a military leader and the dems would be too wimpy. when it was becoming clear that kerry was going to be the one the smear campaign jumped into high gear because now they had a war veteran on the other side and that would cause their whole military leader needed campaign to backfire on them. well for crying out loud. i cant even tell who is on whose side in this thing. i can tell you this though bush has some issues. his economic policies have been less than successful. his domestic policies have been strongly guided by those that profit in those very same decisions. never the less at least i know where bush stands. i also support his war policy. i have spent a fair amount of time listening to kerry and reading interviews with him. he is a disaster. i have never heard anyone who is more skilled at avoiding saying anything. i mean anything at all. i have no clue as to where kerry stands on any issue or what he believes in. he is only skilled at saying alot with absolutey no meaning. and his vice president there we have a man who made his whole reputation and money by suing doctors for something that we now know they were not responsible for. talk about deceit. the demos got nothing here. reminds me of seinfeld. they got a whole platform about nothing. i dont think we got a great choice in this election but the demos blew it when they nominated kerry. they had a chance to take the white house and they chose to play the middle they chose a candidate who looks good but stands for nothing. kerry sucks. why wont kerry ask the dod to release his records on the matter i think that he did at least some of the records 6 pages out of several 100 pages from one document were released. thats it. the big question at the time was the purple heart and he released those records and btw those were 6 more pages than bush released. funny how you say that he should keep quiet and brag at the same time. maybe someday you will be able to make up your mind. i have made up my mind. if what he is saying is the truth then he should be proud of his records and release them. if he is bsing as it looks like then he will do better to keep his mouth shut. the same could be said for bush but those records magically seemed to be destroyed. no matter what he does miles you and others like you are completely closed minded and are going to feel the same way regardless of what he does so what is the point. lol yea right. if he did he would probably be dead. then he is a coward for letting it go on then coming back to bash the others he left behind. were you in nam miles and if not who are you to say one way or the other. who dont you ask someone who was there and in combat what would have happened. which are three more injuries than our current president has not comparing his medals to bushs. of course not bush doesnt have any. kerry is the one bragging about them so im talking about kerry and kerry alone. of course you are. your head is so far up bushs ass you can see no wrong from him no matter what he does. instead you whine about what may have happened 40 years ago because thats all you have. so many others go cut to shreds given a purple heart patched back up and returned to the combat zone. kerry spent 90 days in the combat zone then fled. yawn were you there yea he got out as soon as he could. that is not suprising considering that like many he didnt want to go in the first place nd we never should have been there anyway. because it is a lie and you have no proof otherwise thats why kerry wants to silence those running the ad if thats true then why wont he silence those putting ads out against bush i know everything against bush is true everything against kerry is a lie. what lengths the left will go to! he has and has challenged bush to do it as well. why do you think that bush is finally starting to do it. kerry challenged him to do it a few days ago after renouncing attacks on bushs military record and when bush refused kerry simply said that the fact that he didnt shows the kind of man that he is. i guess that message hit home because now he is but as many of the dems are saying too little too late. .

From : budd cochran

i know. it hurts. i am sure that we will be able to disagree on something else soon however. oh probably but im not looking forward to it. never the less it is nice to see that you are well and back once again. i have to admit that this time you comment feels sincere to me. thank you. budd .

From : miles

tbone wrote 6 pages out of several 100 pages from one document were released. thats it. the big question at the time was the purple heart and he released those records and btw those were 6 more pages than bush released. bush asked the dod to release all his records. 100s have been released but in your mind 6 is more. kerry refuses to ask the dod to release anything. the 6 pages released were kerrys own personal records. the same could be said for bush but those records magically seemed to be destroyed. some were 100s of pages of documents were released. why wont kerry at least ask the dod to release what they have were you in nam miles and if not who are you to say one way or the other. who dont you ask someone who was there and in combat what would have happened. 13 swift boat operators were there. 12 of them tell one story 1 tells another. kerry is the odd one out but is the one you believe. why of course not bush doesnt have any. bush sr. does but he didnt campaign based on any of them. neither did dole. why kerry nam gives him experience in dealing with terrorism rofl..sure. of course you are. your head is so far up bushs ass you can see no wrong from him no matter what he does. here ya are defending kerry by changing the subject to bush. kerry cant defend his own lies and all you can do is turn it around to bush. why hasnt kerry denied anything the swift boat men have said he has not challenged one single point they have made. only has said they lied but not about what. instead you whine about what may have happened 40 years ago because thats all you have. and kerry is trying to run his campaign on what he may have done 40 years ago because thats all he has. he has and has challenged bush to do it as well. why do you think that bush is finally starting to do it. kerry challenged him to do it a few days ago kerry singled out one ad and said nothing about the ads against bush. .

From : tbone

please explain exactly how and now many men did we lose there -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving yugoslavia. he could have kept us out of that mess. you have the most selective memory ive ever seen. budd which are three more injuries than our current president has you know the one who put our soldiers in a situation that he was unwilling to do. clinton did the same and you praised him. hypocrite. budd where when exactly what war were we in during clintons time in office -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

too bad our current president cant even do that. too bad you would ignore what he has done just to attack him. just thought that would put a burr under your saddle. ^ in what way never mind. the reference is obviusly too conservative for you. budd .

From : transurgeon

to say that he respects kerrys service and yet refuses to renounce adds that belittle that service makes the president look like a two faced liar that wants others to do his dirty work. is that enough of a connection for you well he has called for an end to all such ads that depend on what you are talking about at first bush wanted all soft money adds stopped. i guess that makes sense since the left wing is generating 3 times the money the right wing is this time. funny how during the last election when the lions share was going to him he had no problem with it. what im talking about spin-boy is bush on tv yesterday saying all 527-financed ads need to be stopped all of them from both sides will your boy kerry do the same kerry started almost a week ago and challenged bush to do the same. bush initially refused and tried to spin it into an end for all soft money adds as mentioned above. kerry called him to the carpet on that one during a conference and now like magic... more spin from spin-boy kerry hasnt been on tv saying that all 527-financed ads from both sides be stopped nope he has been doing considerable shining about the swift-boat vets ad tho .

From : transurgeon

to say that he respects kerrys service and yet refuses to renounce adds that belittle that service makes the president look like a two faced liar that wants others to do his dirty work. is that enough of a connection for you well he has called for an end to all such ads that depend on what you are talking about at first bush wanted all soft money adds stopped. i guess that makes sense since the left wing is generating 3 times the money the right wing is this time. funny how during the last election when the lions share was going to him he had no problem with it. what im talking about spin-boy is bush on tv yesterday saying all 527-financed ads need to be stopped all of them from both sides will your boy kerry do the same kerry started almost a week ago and challenged bush to do the same. bush initially refused and tried to spin it into an end for all soft money adds as mentioned above. kerry called him to the carpet on that one during a conference and now like magic... more spin from spin-boy kerry hasnt been on tv saying that all 527-financed ads from both sides be stopped nope he has been doing considerable shining about the swift-boat vets ad tho whining not shining .

From : theguy

on tue 24 aug 2004 123205 gmt budd cochran mr-d150@citlinkspam.net wrote on tue 24 aug 2004 043306 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote i dont think we got a great choice in this election but the demos blew it when they nominated kerry. they had a chance to take the white house and they chose to play the middle they chose a candidate who looks good but stands for nothing. kerry sucks. oh god . . . we agree on something. quick somebody call hell and check on their weather. i think they just had a cold spell. budd i know. it hurts. i am sure that we will be able to disagree on something else soon however. never the less it is nice to see that you are well and back once again. .

From : tbone

on tue 24 aug 2004 043306 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote well for crying out loud. i cant even tell who is on whose side in this thing. i can tell you this though bush has some issues. his economic policies have been less than successful. his domestic policies have been strongly guided by those that profit in those very same decisions. never the less at least i know where bush stands. i also support his war policy. i know where he stands too which is the primary reason to replace him. i have spent a fair amount of time listening to kerry and reading interviews with him. he is a disaster. i have never heard anyone who is more skilled at avoiding saying anything. i mean anything at all. i have no clue as to where kerry stands on any issue or what he believes in. he is only skilled at saying alot with absolutey no meaning. and his vice president there we have a man who made his whole reputation and money by suing doctors for something that we now know they were not responsible for. talk about deceit. the demos got nothing here. reminds me of seinfeld. they got a whole platform about nothing. lol gee miles i thought that you were smarter than this oh well. i dont th

From : milesh

blew it when they nominated kerry. they had a chance to take the white house and they chose to play the middle they chose a candidate who looks good but stands for nothing. kerry sucks. yea like bush is any better. he had close to 4 years to prove himself and has utterly failed in every way from a still crippled economy to taking us to war on false pretences. you say that kerry stands for nothing but that really is nothing more than right wing spin. bush stands for big business and big money at any cost. the problem is that it is our children and grandchildren that will pay the cost and it really is one that we cannot afford. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving . 222 288146 cgfrsn$64@dispatch.concentric.net tbone wrote lol gee miles i thought that you were smarter than this oh well. gee boner you really should read who you reply to and engage brain before simply typing your automated rhetoric. another bonehead goof up. .

From : tbone

lol you are right..i meant theguy my mistake but once posted it cant be corrected. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tbone wrote lol gee miles i thought that you were smarter than this oh well. gee boner you really should read who you reply to and engage brain before simply typing your automated rhetoric. another bonehead goof up. .

From : tbone

to say that he respects kerrys service and yet refuses to renounce adds that belittle that service makes the president look like a two faced liar that wants others to do his dirty work. is that enough of a connection for you well he has called for an end to all such ads that depend on what you are talking about at first bush wanted all soft money adds stopped. i guess that makes sense since the left wing is generating 3 times the money the right wing is this time. funny how during the last election when the lions share was going to him he had no problem with it. what im talking about spin-boy is bush on tv yesterday saying all 527-financed ads need to be stopped all of them from both sides will your boy kerry do the same kerry started almost a week ago and challenged bush to do the same. bush initially refused and tried to spin it into an end for all soft money adds as mentioned above. kerry called him to the carpet on that one during a conference and now like magic... more spin from spin-boy kerry hasnt been on tv saying that all 527-financed ads from both sides be stopped and why do you think that he is doing that explanation above nope he has been doing considerable shining about the swift-boat vets ad tho because they are lies or at best do nothing but question his character and are motivated by money. .

From : tbone

well you did get it half right in your typical half truth way. when the employment explosion took off the unemployment figures dont take that into account because as you said many of these people were never working to begin with or had not been working for the period of time it takes to drop them from the workforce. this is also why during clintons strong growth period the unemployment rate did not show any outstandingly low numbers even though you tried to spin it to mean something else. where you got it wrong is that once they take a job for whatever reason they became part of the work force and were counted. when they economy began its downturn they began lose these jobs and collect unemployment which caused the unemployment numbers to rise. the funny thing is that many of them remained unemployed for so long they were considered no longer part of the workforce and the unemployment rate falls even though they are still out of work. the aide told him to concentrate on his small gains and not the big ones to sell the small gains to help his re-election. too bad our current president cant even do that. just thought that would put a burr under your saddle. ^ in what way -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote because of key assumptions that are used in its formulation. such as typical left and their secret formulas for this and that. there is nothing secret about it. by all means then tell us what these key assumptions that are used in its formulation. i alreay did below...oh look...you deleted it again imagine that. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : transurgeon

to say that he respects kerrys service and yet refuses to renounce adds that belittle that service makes the president look like a two faced liar that wants others to do his dirty work. is that enough of a connection for you well he has called for an end to all such ads that depend on what you are talking about at first bush wanted all soft money adds stopped. i guess that makes sense since the left wing is generating 3 times the money the right wing is this time. funny how during the last election when the lions share was going to him he had no problem with it. what im talking about spin-boy is bush on tv yesterday saying all 527-financed ads need to be stopped all of them from both sides will your boy kerry do the same kerry started almost a week ago and challenged bush to do the same. bush initially refused and tried to spin it into an end for all soft money adds as mentioned above. kerry called him to the carpet on that one during a conference and now like magic... more spin from spin-boy kerry hasnt been on tv saying that all 527-financed ads from both sides be stopped and why do you think that he is doing that explanation above why is who doing what use names not pronouns nope he has been doing considerable shining about the swift-boat vets ad tho because they are lies or at best do nothing but question his character and are motivated by money. if they are lies then all john-boy has to do is make allhis military records available im sure that if there is evidence that the sbv are lying your syncophants in the lame-stream medai will be sure to find it the very fact that the nyt boston globe la times etal are not pressing for kerry to release his records speaks volumes doesnt it .

From : tbone

tbone wrote and neither has bush that is until kerry called him to the carpet. of course he wants all the adds banned he is getting killed in the money spent alone by the left. funny that kerry is getting creamed by one puny low budget ad. lol only in your little frightened righ wing mind. people like you will cling to this because sadly you have nothing else or at least nothing positive to stnd behing your man on. funny how kerry is comming within striing range here in nc which is for the most part a republican voting state and he is ahead in other battleground states. while it is too far into the future yet to make any predictions there is obviously no easy run for bush. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote 6 pages out of several 100 pages from one document were released. thats it. the big question at the time was the purple heart and he released those records and btw those were 6 more pages than bush released. bush asked the dod to release all his records. 100s have been released but in your mind 6 is more. kerry refuses to ask the dod to release anything. the 6 pages released were kerrys own personal records. but nothing was released by bush about the questions that were being asked oh yea they were mysteriously lost or destroyed lol. the same could be said for bush but those records magically seemed to be destroyed. some were 100s of pages of documents were released. yea but nothing of valus proving one way or the other if he actually showed up for his last year and the dod records for a ng part times really dont say much. why wont kerry at least ask the dod to release what they have lol because we all know better after that they the right wing spin machine did to clinton. were you in nam miles and if not who are you to say one way or the other. who dont you ask someone who was there and in combat what would have happened. 13 swift boat operators were there. 12 of them tell one story 1 tells another. kerry is the odd one out but is the one you believe. why what does this have to do with the question asked what is the political offiliation of these 13 swift boat operators. are these the ones looking to make a lot of money on that book gee no motivation to lie there huh. of course not bush doesnt have any. bush sr. does but he didnt campaign based on any of them. because at the time it was not an issue. an issue brought up by the right wing i may add. neither did dole. again it was not an issue then. why kerry because the right wing made it that way in the beginning. nam gives him experience in dealing with terrorism rofl..sure. i guess that you dont know much about that war do you btw what experience did bush have in it or any military actions prior to taking office of course you are. your head is so far up bushs ass you can see no wrong from him no matter what he does. here ya are defending kerry by changing the subject to bush. why not it has been what you have been doing in here the entire time. i asked a simple question what has bush done that is positive for this country. i got no actual answers and nothing but spin about how kerry is a coward a liar and being indecisive. none of these accusations come with any actual proof mind you but there they are just the same. it is really sad that after 4 years in office you cant think of a single thing that the man has done to actually help this country. why hasnt kerry denied anything the swift boat men have said he has not challenged one single point they have made. make up your fucking mind already. first you say that he should not make anything of it and then in the very same breath you say that he is not defending himself. it is either one way or the other and you wonder why de doesnt release his dod records. god knows what the right wing would spin that into. only has said they lied but not about what. how about just about everything. instead you whine about what may have happened 40 years ago because thats all you have. and kerry is trying to run his campaign on what he may have done 40 years ago because thats all he has. which is sadly more than out current president has after 4 years of being the most powerful man on earth. he has and has challenged bush to do it as well. why do you think that bush is finally starting to do it. kerry challenged him to do it a few days ago kerry singled out one ad and said nothing about the ads against bush. and neither has bush that is until kerry called him to the carpet. of course he wants all the adds banned he is getting killed in the money spent alone by the left. funny that he didnt have those feelings last time when the money was heading to him. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

i didnt have to here your rant was a perfect self description. if you were to look back in the history of this group who was the one who attacks the most newbies. answer you. just about everything that you accuse me of you do yourelf. and usually far more than i do. and if youd look a bit closer youd find the ones that caught the most flack were trolls just like you. really then why was it you that got chased from the group twice i guess that you are right the trolls do get the most flack - only in your mind tom only in your mind. as well as reality budd. then accept reality tom. it was in your mind it happened. lol anything you say budd. btw you also missed where i attacked to shut a troll up then reasoned with him and then helped him become a contributing member of the group. his screen name was f-350. and that makes what one out of a thousand that you attack no more like one of about 7 or so ive helped. the others were smarter than you and left being as they were just trolling and not here for info. oh so thats how it is. unless they come here to only ask the group regulars and offer no opinion of their own you allow them to stay. and you have been the group net nannie for how long opinions are welcomed flaming general attacks are not. after all it is a discussion group is it not opinions are only welcomed when they do not disagree with you or when people are asking you for help. if they disagree with your suggestions or god forbid say that you are wrong all hell breaks loose. oh well it just continues to show how childish and pathetic you really are once again budd go back and look at who does the most name calling and outright unprovoked attacks on others. why that would be you with your profanity and profane names like fucker asshole and the like. notice i only quoted them. lol yea against who redrag and who is the one who starts that all of the time. btw who is the one who insults anothers mother. after things said about me you still carry a grudge over something that i apologized for . . . you are a small person emnotionally. grow up. not at all budd i accepted your apology but like they say those in glass houses.... yes please remember that the next time you drag up past sins of mine that i have be forgiven of. theyre not yours to remind me of and will be ignored from now on. you said that the last time and as for being forgiven maybe yes maybe no. from what i was taught in order to be forgiven along with asking for it you have to actually regret what you did wrong and try not to repeat it. i cant speak for any regrets that you may or may not have but you certainly are doing nothing about stopping the exact same acts over and over. fair enough. 1. someone asked how to get their ram into low range without engaging the front axle. i said to simply disconnect the vacuum connector from the front axle. you jumped in screaming that it could destroy the truck blow up the engine get himself killed which was all complete bs. tom l. even popped in and said that this was the way to do it but i should have mentioned to plug the vacuum lines and he was correct. i assumed that anyone disconnecting a vacuum line would automatically plug it up but even if they didnt none of the things that you said would even remotely happen and these lines do get pulled and fall off and there are no reports of vehicle explosions due to it in existence. iirc i have often admitted i am not expert on newer trucks but i was right that if the vacuum line was left open it could and would cause damage and be possibly dangerous to operate vacuum power brakes need vacuum ya know lol it would cause no damage and you have nothing to back that stupid claim up. as for the power brakes lol there would not be enough of a loss to even effect them. at least you admit that you are not an exper on newer trucks and this just confirms that. drive a vehicle with a large vacuum leak tom and then get back to me ok and thats the problem budd it would not be a large vacuum leak. like i said pull a equivalent sized line off one of your vehicles and drive it. ill wait. i actually went and disconnected it and took it for a drive. no problems with the brakes other than the one it already has. 2. during the bs tornado discussion you came up with the ingenious idea that the intake and exhaust gasses are moving at the same speed and volume. you based this on some previous discussion that you had with either denny or mac that i dont ever remember seeing. unless your engine is doing nothing more than a compressor would do this is impossible. need i say more yes try the truth. i never said they were moving at the same speed. i did calculate some intake flow speeds that you could not grasp with your

From : budd cochran

no. you just asked where. btw would you like nate to explain it to you personally im sure hed be willing to . . . . . . budd please explain exactly how and now many men did we lose there -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving yugoslavia. he could have kept us out of that mess. you have the most selective memory ive ever seen. budd which are three more injuries than our current president has you know the one who put our soldiers in a situation that he was unwilling to do. clinton did the same and you praised him. hypocrite. budd where when exactly what war were we in during clintons time in office -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

it can be deleted by the poster. i thought you were an expert in computers or such. budd lol you are right..i meant theguy my mistake but once posted it cant be corrected. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tbone wrote lol gee miles i thought that you were smarter than this oh well. gee boner you really should read who you reply to and engage brain before simply typing your automated rhetoric. another bonehead goof up. .

From : miles

tbone wrote damn i should have put a dollar value on that as i have two cards from the tax assessors office where they wanted to come in and reassess my home. they do not go into and around every single home in a city and appraise all of them. not even close. they will come out if you challenge their assement or increase in assesment. i did not live in a small town so what is the population of your city but even at that it is not done by county or even a city at least not in civilization. the value of homes varies too much from street to street never mind from city to city. yep. its done on a neighborhood basis. average selling price and square footage for a given area. ya 3 people go through every single house every year. rofl and why do you think you got that tax hike could it possibly be due to a significant reduction in federal aid to your state ya. here in az the fed. gov. is trying to reduce aid because several times this year az failed dust particulate levels. they punish az for being a desert in a 9 year drought and no comprehension of monsoon winds. their solution is to increase the amount of blacktop. so ya our aid will be cut thanks to our wonderfull epa. actually property tax rates are raised about every 4 years. they had been unchanged for the past 7 years on this round. .

From : budd cochran

but nothing was released by bush about the questions that were being asked oh yea they were mysteriously lost or destroyed lol. youre not keeping up with the tom. g.w.s records were found and have been released. were still waiting for kerrys fictionalized accounts. lol because we all know better after that they the right wing spin machine did to clinton. which was what prove clinton was a traitor and a draft dodger kerrys worse in that he jeopardized the lives of those under his command to gather anti-war information. then used a four bloodless war wounds to get home without doing a full tour. i got a distant cousin that would love to give him his shrapnel collection he carries in his legs after being shot down 17 times flying medical evac chopper in nam during 6 tours there. nam gives him experience in dealing with terrorism rofl..sure. i guess that you dont know much about that war do you btw what experience did bush have in it or any military actions prior to taking office i guess you dont either. vietnam was a guerilla war not a terrorism war. why not it has been what you have been doing in here the entire time. i asked a simple question what has bush done that is positive for this country. i got no actual answers and nothing but spin about how kerry is a coward a liar and being indecisive. none of these accusations come with any actual proof mind you but there they are just the same. it is really sad that after 4 years in office you cant think of a single thing that the man has done to actually help this country. what has he done for the us he kept gore out of the presidency. id buy him a steak dinner for just that. why hasnt kerry denied anything the swift boat men have said he has not challenged one single point they have made. make up your fucking mind already. first you say that he should not make anything of it and then in the very same breath you say that he is not defending himself. it is either one way or the other and you wonder why de doesnt release his dod records. god knows what the right wing would spin that into. make up your mind tom instead of blindly following and repeating the liberal propaganda. and neither has bush that is until kerry called him to the carpet. but we are still waiting for kerry to stop the left wing ads. . . . .will he or wont he if he doesnt it proves hes the worst possible choice for the leader of the us of a. budd .

From : tbone

too bad our current president cant even do that. too bad you would ignore what he has done just to attack him. lol because i dont know of anything and neither do you. just thought that would put a burr under your saddle. ^ in what way never mind. the reference is obviusly too conservative for you. iow yet another question that you cannot answer. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote i alreay did below...oh look...you deleted it again imagine that. you did nothing of the sort. geez bonehead your unsubstantiated unrelated rhetoric are not key assumptions that are used in the formulation to determine unemployment or job loss/gained. then why did you delete it and why did budds research come up with nothing either the answer is that it is correct. they assume the potential population growth seasonal workers the number of people that will choose not to work how many will retire per year and those that are looking for work. these are all assumptions or we would be getting a new census every month. the key assumption is that if people are out of work for a given period of time that they are no longer looking and are therefore no longer part of the workforce. because of this many people who have lost their jobs for an extended period are no longer counted in the unemployment numbers so the unemployment rate gives an artificially low number. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

but nothing was released by bush about the questions that were being asked oh yea they were mysteriously lost or destroyed lol. youre not keeping up with the tom. g.w.s records were found and have been released. all of them please provide me with a link. were still waiting for kerrys fictionalized accounts. why you will just say that it was lies fabricated by him anyway lol because we all know better after that they the right wing spin machine did to clinton. which was what prove clinton was a traitor and a draft dodger how was he a traitor or a draft dodger this is exactly why kerry would be a fool to release anything in to the hands of bitter little people like yourself. kerrys worse in that he jeopardized the lives of those under his command to gather anti-war information. then used a four bloodless war wounds to get home without doing a full tour. he did a full tour and left early in his second one. as for your spineless accusations were you there. how is it that the ones who were with him stand behind him i think that i will take their words over some politically motivated ones like you do. nam gives him experience in dealing with terrorism rofl..sure. i guess that you dont know much about that war do you btw what experience did bush have in it or any military actions prior to taking office i guess you dont either. vietnam was a guerilla war not a terrorism war. please specify the exact difference in fighting tactics. why not it has been what you have been doing in here the entire time. i asked a simple question what has bush done that is positive for this country. i got no actual answers and nothing but spin about how kerry is a coward a liar and being indecisive. none of these accusations come with any actual proof mind you but there they are just the same. it is really sad that after 4 years in office you cant think of a single thing that the man has done to actually help this country. what has he done for the us he kept gore out of the presidency. id buy him a steak dinner for just that. like i said just lame answers and a further showing of your limited intelligence. why hasnt kerry denied anything the swift boat men have said he has not challenged one single point they have made. make up your fucking mind already. first you say that he should not make anything of it and then in the very same breath you say that he is not defending himself. it is either one way or the other and you wonder why de doesnt release his dod records. god knows what the right wing would spin that into. make up your mind tom instead of blindly following and repeating the liberal propaganda. give me a break already and stop accusing me of everything that you are and do. and neither has bush that is until kerry called him to the carpet. but we are still waiting for kerry to stop the left wing ads. . . . .will he or wont he nice try bit no dice. he did as far as attacks on bushs military record and when bush refused to do the same kerry accused him of letting others do his dirty work for him and the accusation hit home. as for the other adds why should he bush took full advantage of them when he ran against gore. funny how when the shoe is on the other foot bush and the rest of the right wing now wants to change the rules. if he doesnt it proves hes the worst possible choice for the leader of the us of a. then the same goes for bush who was more than happy to have them when he was running against gore. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

really show me exactly how it is done. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving it can be deleted by the poster. i thought you were an expert in computers or such. budd lol you are right..i meant theguy my mistake but once posted it cant be corrected. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tbone wrote lol gee miles i thought that you were smarter than this oh well. gee boner you really should read who you reply to and engage brain before simply typing your automated rhetoric. another bonehead goof up. .

From : tbone

i know. it hurts. i am sure that we will be able to disagree on something else soon however. oh probably but im not looking forward to it. never the less it is nice to see that you are well and back once again. i have to admit that this time you comment feels sincere to me. thank you. sure they do because he agreed with you on something but that will probably soon change. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

to say that he respects kerrys service and yet refuses to renounce adds that belittle that service makes the president look like a two faced liar that wants others to do his dirty work. is that enough of a connection for you well he has called for an end to all such ads that depend on what you are talking about at first bush wanted all soft money adds stopped. i guess that makes sense since the left wing is generating 3 times the money the right wing is this time. funny how during the last election when the lions share was going to him he had no problem with it. what im talking about spin-boy is bush on tv yesterday saying all 527-financed ads need to be stopped all of them from both sides will your boy kerry do the same kerry started almost a week ago and challenged bush to do the same. bush initially refused and tried to spin it into an end for all soft money adds as mentioned above. kerry called him to the carpet on that one duri ng a conference and now like magic... more spin from spin-boy kerry hasnt been on tv saying that all 527-financed ads from both sides be stopped and why do you think that he is doing that explanation above why is who doing what why do you think that bush is now condemming these adds. use names not pronouns is that better nope he has been doing considerable shining about the swift-boat vets ad tho because they are lies or at best do nothing but question his character and are motivated by money. if they are lies then all john-boy has to do is make allhis military records available that will do no good as they will then just accuse him of being the one who wrote the records in the first place. im sure that if there is evidence that the sbv are lying your syncophants in the lame-stream medai will be sure to find it lol yea after 40 years fat chance. funny how this left wing media all seems to be owned by conservatives. the very fact that the nyt boston globe la times etal are not pressing for kerry to release his records speaks volumes doesnt it because it is not worthy and they know that there is nothing to be gained just like when the story was dropped on bushs possible desertion. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

no. you just asked where. btw would you like nate to explain it to you personally yes. im sure hed be willing to . . . . . . good. and then lets discuss why we were there how much it cost and how many men we lost doing it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

learn to use your group program. it appears you are using outlook express. since i do not use it myself i had to take a whole 30 seconds to configure it and find how to cancel groups messages. tbone wrote really show me exactly how it is done. .

From : budd cochran

sure they do because he agreed with you on something but that will probably soon change. no tom youre wrong again but i didnt expect you to understand. i believe he did though. budd .

From : tbone

tbone wrote they do not reassess individual homes bonehead. lol care to put some money on that. sure will. in most states the appraised value is based on average selling price of homes in an area and the square footage of them. you think some guy drives around a city and walks around and inside every home in the city to do an individual appraisal damn i should have put a dollar value on that as i have two cards from the tax assessors office where they wanted to come in and reassess my home. they do it on a county wide basic regardless of how much the homes are worth in a particular area. hahahahahahaha complete bs and probably not even legal. yep you really do think some guy drives around to every single house to do an individual appraisal. maybe in a very small town but that would be the exception and not the rule. i did not live in a small town and they have about three people there that do nothing but.... but even at that it is not done by county or even a city at least not in civilization. the value of homes varies too much from street to street never mind from city to city. because the square footage usually determis the value and i bet that your house iv valued for much less than you could sell it for. a 2000 sf single story home generally will sell for more than a 2000 sf two story home. that depends on the area that you are in. for decades here the county appraised a single story home at a higher factor than a two story home. that changed last year effectively raising the taxes on all multi-story homes. and why do you think you got that tax hike could it possibly be due to a significant reduction in federal aid to your state -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

miles i took jon up on his offer. if he sends me product free of charge i will run an unbiased test on it. i would love for it to work much the same as miracle weight loss pills g. i will report here when i receive the product during and after the test. if it costs me nothing i have nothing to lose right since hes unlike most other hucksters that spam and flee the group i figure id give it a shot. --mike jon moser wrote in an extensive search of the web this afternoon i not able to find any specific source validating the claim that enviromaxplus among other products claiming to save fuel was tested at phoenix international raceway with one of the local tv stations documenting it. if there is some reference available please provide it to this forum. i dont think they tried to document it for the internet. it was a local phoenix broadcast. i saw it and thats all that matters to me. now if you could please provide a link to a reputable independent non-biased test of this product i would be happy to view it. again this product is quite old. nothing new so if these independent tests exist they should be easy to find. .

From : tbone

learn to use your group program. it appears you are using outlook express. since i do not use it myself i had to take a whole 30 seconds to configure it and find how to cancel groups messages. tbone wrote really show me exactly how it is done. that only works if your server allows it and giga didnt at least with the setup that we were given so i forgot all about it. either way i said that it couldnt be corrected edited once posted and i didnt even see that error until you pointed it out. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

that will do no good as they will then just accuse him of being the one who wrote the records in the first place. exactly. he wrote his records by his service history awards promotions injuries transfers medical problems etc. for example i have a partial history of my military service here in the safe . . its called a 201 file. it contains my enlistment periods my ranks my orders to basic at ft leonard wood re-enlistment awards etc. kerrys files would reveal the truth either way it might be. so what do you think he could be afraid of budd .

From : budd cochran

no. you just asked where. btw would you like nate to explain it to you personally yes. im sure hed be willing to . . . . . . good. and then lets discuss why we were there how much it cost and how many men we lost doing it. wrong tom or did you forget clintons acceptance to send military to yugoslavia tore him away from his only child right after hes been granted custody of the child and after he had left the military. my point being of course that clinton was willing to destroy a family to send a man no longer in the military except as a civilian instructor to fight for a country clinton chose to be a traitor to. budd .

From : budd cochran

all of them please provide me with a link. no. look them up for yourself since you never support your claims. were still waiting for kerrys fictionalized accounts. why you will just say that it was lies fabricated by him anyway why not hiding something which was what prove clinton was a traitor and a draft dodger how was he a traitor or a draft dodger oh really tom are you this stupid or what this is exactly why kerry would be a fool to release anything in to the hands of bitter little people like yourself. lol as if youre not a bitter little person out to destroy g.w. bush. what a laugh! kerrys worse in that he jeopardized the lives of those under his command to gather anti-war information. then used a four bloodless war wounds to get home without doing a full tour. he did a full tour and left early in his second one. proof oh forgot you dont back up your calims. as for your spineless accusations were you there. were you how is it that the ones who were with him stand behind him it appears 12 dont stand behind him. i think that i will take their words over some politically motivated ones like you do. and your words are not politically motivated boy youre sure cranking out some good jokes tonite!!!! please specify the exact difference in fighting tactics. lol no. look it up. like i said just lame answers and a further showing of your limited intelligence. at least theyre not words from political propaganda repeated by rote by a unthinking puppet of a commie / liberal political machine. make up your mind tom instead of blindly following and repeating the liberal propaganda. give me a break already and stop accusing me of everything that you are and do. why not as you so often complain you did it first. nice try bit no dice. he did as far as attacks on bushs military record and when bush refused to do the same kerry accused him of letting others do his dirty work for him and the accusation hit home. as for the other adds why should he because they are being placed by the liberal equivalent of the conservative groups he complained about. budd .

From : budd cochran

too bad our current president cant even do that. too bad you would ignore what he has done just to attack him. lol because i dont know of anything and neither do you. i wouldnt tell you tom because you would spin it and corrupt it and make it look like a bad thing. thats how possesed you are about getting bush out of office. even if national opinion was against you. iow yet another question that you cannot answer. not at all the reference was just too redneck for a city slicker like you to appreciate. budd .

From : theguy

on wed 25 aug 2004 002417 gmt budd cochran mr-d150@citlinkspam.net wrote i know. it hurts. i am sure that we will be able to disagree on something else soon however. oh probably but im not looking forward to it. never the less it is nice to see that you are well and back once again. i have to admit that this time you comment feels sincere to me. thank you. budd it was and you are welcome. .

From : tbone

that will do no good as they will then just accuse him of being the one who wrote the records in the first place. exactly. he wrote his records by his service history awards promotions injuries transfers medical problems etc. for example i have a partial history of my military service here in the safe . . its called a 201 file. it contains my enlistment periods my ranks my orders to basic at ft leonard wood re-enlistment awards etc. kerrys files would reveal the truth either way it might be. so what do you think he could be afraid of you make no sense at all. exactly what truths would they reveal -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote you make no sense at all. exactly what truths would they reveal how about whether he was in cambodia or not .

From : milesh

tbone wrote if bush jr would have actually accomplished something of value i would have probably voted for him this time but he has not done so and you lnow it. he did. he kept gore out of office. now what has kerry done in the past 20 years in the senate that is an accomplishment of value .

From : budd cochran

tom you lose the bet. assessment procedures vary across the country. co also does them like miles says. budd tbone wrote they do not reassess individual homes bonehead. lol care to put some money on that. sure will. in most states the appraised value is based on average selling price of homes in an area and the square footage of them. you think some guy drives around a city and walks around and inside every home in the city to do an individual appraisal damn i should have put a dollar value on that as i have two cards from the tax assessors office where they wanted to come in and reassess my home. they do it on a county wide basic regardless of how much the homes are worth in a particular area. hahahahahahaha complete bs and probably not even legal. yep you really do think some guy drives around to every single house to do an individual appraisal. maybe in a very small town but that would be the exception and not the rule. i did not live in a small town and they have about three people there that do nothing but.... but even at that it is not done by county or even a city at least not in civilization. the value of homes varies too much from street to street never mind from city to city. because the square footage usually determis the value and i bet that your house iv valued for much less than you could sell it for. a 2000 sf single story home generally will sell for more than a 2000 sf two story home. that depends on the area that you are in. for decades here the county appraised a single story home at a higher factor than a two story home. that changed last year effectively raising the taxes on all multi-story homes. and why do you think you got that tax hike could it possibly be due to a significant reduction in federal aid to your state -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

no. you just asked where. btw would you like nate to explain it to you personally yes. im sure hed be willing to . . . . . . good. and then lets discuss why we were there how much it cost and how many men we lost doing it. wrong tom or did you forget clintons acceptance to send military to yugoslavia tore him away from his only child right after hes been granted custody of the child and after he had left the military. how could i forget something that i knew nothing about do you not think that this very thing is happening now only many times worse stop spinning and answer the question for a change. how many people did we lose how much did it cost us why did we go my point being of course that clinton was willing to destroy a family to send a man no longer in the military except as a civilian instructor to fight for a country clinton chose to be a traitor to. lol you stupidity is now beginning to even amaze me. what country was clinton a traitor to -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

too bad our current president cant even do that. too bad you would ignore what he has done just to attack him. lol because i dont know of anything and neither do you. i wouldnt tell you tom because you would spin it and corrupt it and make it look like a bad thing. lol how would that even be possible unless what he has done was only good for a very select group of people. thats how possesed you are about getting bush out of office. even if national opinion was against you. sorry budd but it is you are are obsessed with keeping him in even though he has done nothing for the country. as for the national opinion most polls say that if the election were held today that bush would lose so the opinion is much more even than you would like to believe. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

all of them please provide me with a link. no. look them up for yourself since you never support your claims. as usual you cant back up what you say. were still waiting for kerrys fictionalized accounts. why you will just say that it was lies fabricated by him anyway why not hiding something nothing to hide and no purpose for doing it either. which was what prove clinton was a traitor and a draft dodger how was he a traitor or a draft dodger oh really tom are you this stupid or what once again unable to answe the question. this is exactly why kerry would be a fool to release anything in to the hands of bitter little people like yourself. lol as if youre not a bitter little person out to destroy g.w. bush. what a laugh! lol no that would be you and your right wing friends out to destroy kerry because you have nothing else. i vote for who is going to do the best job. i voted for reagan both times bush sr once clinton both times and gore. if bush jr would have actually accomplished something of value i would have probably voted for him this time but he has not done so and you lnow it. kerrys worse in that he jeopardized the lives of those under his command to gather anti-war information. then used a four bloodless war wounds to get home without doing a full tour. he did a full tour and left early in his second one. proof oh forgot you dont back up your calims. go look it up on his web site for starters. this shows just how little you really know. as for your spineless accusations were you there. were you no but im not making accusations either. how is it that the ones who were with him stand behind him it appears 12 dont stand behind him. 12 people on his boat i think that i will take their words over some politically motivated ones like you do. and your words are not politically motivated boy youre sure cranking out some good jokes tonite!!!! my words have nothing to do with it and btw are not overly politically motivated. that would be you and miles there since you continue to back bush and yet are incapable of comming up with even one thing that he has done to better this country. please specify the exact difference in fighting tactics. lol no. look it up. yet another statement that you cant back up and i can see why this time since both use the same means of attack. like i said just lame answers and a further showing of your limited intelligence. at least theyre not words from political propaganda repeated by rote by a unthinking puppet of a commie / liberal political machine. no they are words from political propaganda repeated by rote by an unthinking puppet of a short sighted / conservative political machine make up your mind tom instead of blindly following and repeating the liberal propaganda. give me a break already and stop accusing me of everything that you are and do. why not as you so often complain you did it first. yet another lie but dont worry im used to it from you. nice try bit no dice. he did as far as attacks on bushs military record and when bush refused to do the same kerry accused him of letting others do his dirty work for him and the accusation hit home. as for the other adds why should he because they are being placed by the liberal equivalent of the conservative groups he complained about. he is not complaining about the group he is complaining about the unfounded attacks on his military record. you really need to get your facts in order or at least get your story straight. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

you make no sense at all. exactly what truths would they reveal no tom it would be you that makes no sense at all. you ask a question and when the answer displeases you or shows your lack of knowledge you pull one of these spins. the records would reveal evidence to support or disprove kerrys claims ....something he dare not risk maybe budd .

From : budd cochran

wrong tom or did you forget clintons acceptance to send military to yugoslavia tore him away from his only child right after hes been granted custody of the child and after he had left the military. how could i forget something that i knew nothing about do you not think that this very thing is happening now only many times worse stop spinning and answer the question for a change. how many people did we lose how much did it cost us why did we go look it up. if you wont provide proof then neither will i. if anyone should be dizzy from spinning answers it should be you. my point being of course that clinton was willing to destroy a family to send a man no longer in the military except as a civilian instructor to fight for a country clinton chose to be a traitor to. lol you stupidity is now beginning to even amaze me. thats your stupidity coming back to haunt you. as i understood nate he was called back in because of a lack of military personel in his field of training because of clintons cut backs. he was completely out of the army a civilian at the time. what country was clinton a traitor to come on think real hard. i know its a strain for someone that survives on the pap handed down by the liberals with their sweet lies and delicious fairytale dreams but you can do it. now here is what you need to figure it out for yourself what country was bill clinton president of -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving budd yep my chute opened just fine. tom splaaat!!! budd .

From : budd cochran

you know it would just break toms heart if we got along for more than a week . . . sounds like fun doesnt it shall we vbg budd on wed 25 aug 2004 002417 gmt budd cochran mr-d150@citlinkspam.net wrote i know. it hurts. i am sure that we will be able to disagree on something else soon however. oh probably but im not looking forward to it. never the less it is nice to see that you are well and back once again. i have to admit that this time you comment feels sincere to me. thank you. budd it was and you are welcome. .

From : budd cochran

i wouldnt tell you tom because you would spin it and corrupt it and make it look like a bad thing. lol how would that even be possible unless what he has done was only good for a very select group of people. which of course would be the real reason you want to find something on him. thats how possesed you are about getting bush out of office. even if national opinion was against you. sorry budd but it is you are are obsessed with keeping him in even though he has done nothing for the country. as for the national opinion most polls say that if the election were held today that bush would lose so the opinion is much more even than you would like to believe. lol ya gotta stop reading only liberal supported media. just yesterday there were two polls that said the opposite one on yahoo! -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving budd those darn lazy liberal pigeons are hitching a ride on my parachute again. tom splaaat!!!! budd .

From : tbone

you make no sense at all. exactly what truths would they reveal no tom it would be you that makes no sense at all. you ask a question and when the answer displeases you or shows your lack of knowledge you pull one of these spins. lol the only one spinning in here as usual is you. the records would reveal evidence to support or disprove kerrys claims ...something he dare not risk maybe they would do no such thing. they would either show some minor error that would bet blown all out of proportion such as the nixon thing or they would agree with him and then be called a complete pack of lies written by kerry himself. we are all well aware of how the right operates. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

all of them please provide me with a link. no. look them up for yourself since you never support your claims. as usual you cant back up what you say. pkb. were still waiting for kerrys fictionalized accounts. why you will just say that it was lies fabricated by him anyway why not hiding something nothing to hide and no purpose for doing it either. except to substantiate his claim of being a war hero etc. of course. nothing destroys rumor like truth. which was what prove clinton was a traitor and a draft dodger how was he a traitor or a draft dodger oh really tom are you this stupid or what once again unable to answe the question. yep youre that stupid . . . . . . . . this is exactly why kerry would be a fool to release anything in to the hands of bitter little people like yourself. lol as if youre not a bitter little person out to destroy g.w. bush. what a laugh! lol no that would be you and your right wing friends out to destroy kerry because you have nothing else. i vote for who is going to do the best job. i voted for reagan both times bush sr once clinton both times and gore. if bush jr would have actually accomplished something of value i would have probably voted for him this time but he has not done so and you lnow it. what the heck are you talking about if bush jr would have actually accomplished something of value i would have probably voted for him this time your making less and less sense. are you talking about his governorship terms or about how he is so darn evil satan should take lessons from him your getting caught in your lying spins tom. kerrys worse in that he jeopardized the lives of those under his command to gather anti-war information. then used a four bloodless war wounds to get home without doing a full tour. he did a full tour and left early in his second one. proof oh forgot you dont back up your calims. go look it up on his web site for starters. this shows just how little you really know. lol look at the web site of a person who according to a substantial number of detractors lied on his reports to his superiors in order to make his cowardice based on the best supported report of shooting a single fleeing enemy in the back disappear no tom im not as gullible as you. as for your spineless accusations were you there. were you no but im not making accusations either. yes you are about bush and his service records. how is it that the ones who were with him stand behind him it appears 12 dont stand behind him. 12 people on his boat no tom it was twelve people from the planet kolob where joseph smith waits to decide which mormons can enter the celestial kingdom. go study the s.o.p. standard operating procedures for the swift boats so you wont be able to call me a liar so glibly. i think that i will take their words over some politically motivated ones like you do. and your words are not politically motivated boy youre sure cranking out some good jokes tonite!!!! my words have nothing to do with it and btw are not overly politically motivated. that would be you and miles there since you continue to back bush and yet are incapable of comming up with even one thing that he has done to better this country. if your words have nothing to do with it then youre just wasting our oxygen supply. and miles trans surgeon and i are still waiting for you to provide any evidence on any claim you ever made. sorry liberal propaganda doesnt count. please specify the exact difference in fighting tactics. lol no. look it up. yet another statement that you cant back up and i can see why this time since both use the same means of attack. lol man are you stupid in the area of military operations. you really should do some research. its not fair to you for you to not have knowledge about what you argue about. so lets see ... according to you in a normal battle each side calls up the other and sets up appointments to determine when the battle will occur and . . . .good grief!!! tom its not a game of chess its war. surprise attacks are the norm for all wars but a terrorist attacks with no intent of it developing into a continuing battle just a plane or two into a couple tall buildings to kill mostly innocents. a guerrilla otoh will attack and escape if possible. if not hes prepared to fight on with additonal supplies brought with him. collateral damage is not considered important. a conventional soldier will attack by surprise if possible and has no intention of running killing himself along with innocents or killing innocents deliberately. end of warfare 101 like i said just lame answers and a further showing of your limited intelligence. at least theyre not words from political propaganda repeated by rote by a unthinking puppet of a commie / liberal political m

From : tbone

i wouldnt tell you tom because you would spin it and corrupt it and make it look like a bad thing. lol how would that even be possible unless what he has done was only good for a very select group of people. which of course would be the real reason you want to find something on him. no the fact that you cant come up with something of value that he did is why you are so desperate to find something on kerry. thats how possesed you are about getting bush out of office. even if national opinion was against you. sorry budd but it is you are are obsessed with keeping him in even though he has done nothing for the country. as for the national opinion most polls say that if the election were held today that bush would lose so the opinion is much more even than you would like to believe. lol ya gotta stop reading only liberal supported media. just yesterday there were two polls that said the opposite one on yahoo! wow two out of 100. and who was sponcering these polls -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving budd those darn lazy liberal pigeons are hitching a ride on my parachute again. yea and what is usually found under a pigeon its shit lol -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

in it near it what really is the difference. you seem to really be reaching now. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tbone wrote you make no sense at all. exactly what truths would they reveal how about whether he was in cambodia or not .

From : budd cochran

come on tom. its ok to admit you are wrong. budd tbone wrote they do not reassess individual homes bonehead. lol care to put some money on that. sure will. in most states the appraised value is based on average selling price of homes in an area and the square footage of them. you think some guy drives around a city and walks around and inside every home in the city to do an individual appraisal damn i should have put a dollar value on that as i have two cards from the tax assessors office where they wanted to come in and reassess my home. they do it on a county wide basic regardless of how much the homes are worth in a particular area. hahahahahahaha complete bs and probably not even legal. yep you really do think some guy drives around to every single house to do an individual appraisal. maybe in a very small town but that would be the exception and not the rule. i did not live in a small town and they have about three people there that do nothing but.... but even at that it is not done by county or even a city at least not in civilization. the value of homes varies too much from street to street never mind from city to city. because the square footage usually determis the value and i bet that your house iv valued for much less than you could sell it for. a 2000 sf single story home generally will sell for more than a 2000 sf two story home. that depends on the area that you are in. for decades here the county appraised a single story home at a higher factor than a two story home. that changed last year effectively raising the taxes on all multi-story homes. and why do you think you got that tax hike could it possibly be due to a significant reduction in federal aid to your state -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

wrong tom or did you forget clintons acceptance to send military to yugoslavia tore him away from his only child right after hes been granted custody of the child and after he had left the military. how could i forget something that i knew nothing about do you not think that this very thing is happening now only many times worse stop spinning and answer the question for a change. how many people did we lose how much did it cost us why did we go look it up. if you wont provide proof then neither will i. if anyone should be dizzy from spinning answers it should be you. iow you know that this answer of yours is full of shit and are once again not man enough to admit it. the funny thing is that we will be thought of in an even worse light down the road because of the iraq thing now. my point being of course that clinton was willing to destroy a family to send a man no longer in the military except as a civilian instructor to fight for a country clinton chose to be a traitor to. lol you stupidity is now beginning to even amaze me. thats your stupidity coming back to haunt you. as i understood nate he was called back in because of a lack of military personel in his field of training because of clintons cut backs. he was completely out of the army a civilian at the time. i see callbacks to active service all of the time now too and it has been alomst 4 years since clinton was in office. you really need to make up your mind budd big army or lower taxes you cant have both. what country was clinton a traitor to come on think real hard. i know its a strain for someone that survives on the pap handed down by the liberals with their sweet lies and delicious fairytale dreams but you can do it. now here is what you need to figure it out for yourself what country was bill clinton president of lol in what way was he a traitor could you pump out the desperate right wing bs any faster -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving budd yep my chute opened just fine. too bad you were too scared to get on the plane. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

how would you know -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving come on tom. its ok to admit you are wrong. budd tbone wrote they do not reassess individual homes bonehead. lol care to put some money on that. sure will. in most states the appraised value is based on average selling price of homes in an area and the square footage of them. you think some guy drives around a city and walks around and inside every home in the city to do an individual appraisal damn i should have put a dollar value on that as i have two cards from the tax assessors office where they wanted to come in and reassess my home. they do it on a county wide basic regardless of how much the homes are worth in a particular area. hahahahahahaha complete bs and probably not even legal. yep you really do think some guy drives around to every single house to do an individual appraisal. maybe in a very small town but that would be the exception and not the rule. i did not live in a small town and they have about three people there that do nothing but.... but even at that it is not done by county or even a city at least not in civilization. the value of homes varies too much from street to street never mind from city to city. because the square footage usually determis the value and i bet that your house iv valued for much less than you could sell it for. a 2000 sf single story home generally will sell for more than a 2000 sf two story home. that depends on the area that you are in. for decades here the county appraised a single story home at a higher factor than a two story home. that changed last year effectively raising the taxes on all multi-story homes. and why do you think you got that tax hike could it possibly be due to a significant reduction in federal aid to your state -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : theguy

on wed 25 aug 2004 122943 gmt budd cochran mr-d150@citlinkspam.net wrote you know it would just break toms heart if we got along for more than a week . . . sounds like fun doesnt it shall we vbg budd im not taking sides budd. i welcome a discussion with either you or tom. im just not gonna take it to the toilet any more. you both deserve more respect than that. on wed 25 aug 2004 002417 gmt budd cochran mr-d150@citlinkspam.net wrote i know. it hurts. i am sure that we will be able to disagree on something else soon however. oh probably but im not looking forward to it. never the less it is nice to see that you are well and back once again. i have to admit that this time you comment feels sincere to me. thank you. budd it was and you are welcome. .

From : tbone

good answer. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving on wed 25 aug 2004 122943 gmt budd cochran mr-d150@citlinkspam.net wrote you know it would just break toms heart if we got along for more than a week . . . sounds like fun doesnt it shall we vbg budd im not taking sides budd. i welcome a discussion with either you or tom. im just not gonna take it to the toilet any more. you both deserve more respect than that. on wed 25 aug 2004 002417 gmt budd cochran mr-d150@citlinkspam.net wrote i know. it hurts. i am sure that we will be able to disagree on something else soon however. oh probably but im not looking forward to it. never the less it is nice to see that you are well and back once again. i have to admit that this time you comment feels sincere to me. thank you. budd it was and you are welcome. .

From : tbone

all of them please provide me with a link. no. look them up for yourself since you never support your claims. as usual you cant back up what you say. pkb. i do but then you just spin it into liberal propaganda. the sad part is that you cant even come up with that much. were still waiting for kerrys fictionalized accounts. why you will just say that it was lies fabricated by him anyway why not hiding something nothing to hide and no purpose for doing it either. except to substantiate his claim of being a war hero etc. of course. nothing destroys rumor like truth. how could he do that and why should he have to. exactly what proof do the ones accusing him have oh yea nothing. actually one of them was found in bushs election team and was asked to leave. gee no political motivation to lie there huh which was what prove clinton was a traitor and a draft dodger how was he a traitor or a draft dodger oh really tom are you this stupid or what once again unable to answe the question. yep youre that stupid . . . . . . . . and once again you are afraid to back up what you say. i guess that is because the proof that you could possibly come up with is crap from the extreme right web sites and doing it would prove you to be everything that you accuse me of only worse. this is exactly why kerry would be a fool to release anything in to the hands of bitter little people like yourself. lol as if youre not a bitter little person out to destroy g.w. bush. what a laugh! lol no that would be you and your right wing friends out to destroy kerry because you have nothing else. i vote for who is going to do the best job. i voted for reagan both times bush sr once clinton both times and gore. if bush jr would have actually accomplished something of value i would have probably voted for him this time but he has not done so and you lnow it. what the heck are you talking about it wa a typo get over it. i would probably v o t e for him in t h i s election if he actually proved himself as a good president and he has n o t done that. kerrys worse in that he jeopardized the lives of those under his command to gather anti-war information. then used a four bloodless war wounds to get home without doing a full tour. he did a full tour and left early in his second one. proof oh forgot you dont back up your calims. go look it up on his web site for starters. this shows just how little you really know. lol look at the web site of a person who according to a substantial number of detractors lied on his reports to his superiors in order to make his cowardice based on the best supported report of shooting a single fleeing enemy in the back disappear i thought that in this country you are innocent until proven guilty. where is any proof from these detractors. you call him a coward but he volunteered to be on the swift boats in his second tour and they were considered to be one of the most dangerous duties there. you are such a bitter and stupid man budd. please show us your proof of the things that you are now claiming as fact. no tom im not as gullible as you. no you are just not as intelliget as i am. as for your spineless accusations were you there. were you no but im not making accusations either. yes you are about bush and his service records. i find it suspicious that the only ones that are now missing have to do with his last year in the service. how is it that the ones who were with him stand behind him it appears 12 dont stand behind him. 12 people on his boat no tom it was twelve people from the planet kolob where joseph smith waits to decide which mormons can enter the celestial kingdom. i believe this from you. are you talking about the ones that were later show to have been placed on his boat after he left. i think that i will take their words over some politically motivated ones like you do. and your words are not politically motivated boy youre sure cranking out some good jokes tonite!!!! my words have nothing to do with it and btw are not overly politically motivated. that would be you and miles there since you continue to back bush and yet are incapable of comming up with even one thing that he has done to better this country. if your words have nothing to do with it then youre just wasting our oxygen supply. and miles trans surgeon and i are still waiting for you to provide any evidence on any claim you ever made. i do but you then just call it propaganda. sorry liberal propaganda doesnt count. see just as i said. please specify the exact difference in fighting tactics. lol no. look it up. yet another statement that you cant back up and i can see why this time since both use the same means of attack. lol man are you stupid in the area of military operations. y

From : tbone

tbone wrote damn i should have put a dollar value on that as i have two cards from the tax assessors office where they wanted to come in and reassess my home. they do not go into and around every single home in a city and appraise all of them. not even close. they will come out if you challenge their assement or increase in assessment. i guess that depends on where you are and how much of an increase they want to make. if they are doing an inflation increase then no they dont have to go but if they are doing a valid reassessment they do have to go into the neighborhoods to assess the condition it is in. i did not live in a small town so what is the population of your city 90000 and it was a town not a city. but even at that it is not done by county or even a city at least not in civilization. the value of homes varies too much from street to street never mind from city to city. yep. its done on a neighborhood basis. average selling price and square footage for a given area. ya 3 people go through every single house every year. rofl of course not and i never said that they did. do you get your taxes raised every year my taxes were raised once in the 10 years that i was there. and why do you think you got that tax hike could it possibly be due to a significant reduction in federal aid to your state ya. here in az the fed. gov. is trying to reduce aid because several times this year az failed dust particulate levels. they punish az for being a desert in a 9 year drought and no comprehension of monsoon winds. their solution is to increase the amount of blacktop. so ya our aid will be cut thanks to our wonderfull epa. it sounds more like an excuse to me or a forced enforcement of that rule in order to cuts costs because they simply dont have the money anymore. you can blame the epa if you want but we both know the real reason. actually property tax rates are raised about every 4 years. they had been unchanged for the past 7 years on this round. and now a serious amount of money is needed so they made that change and once again the poor make up for what was given to the rich. now before you start whining this is very much what happened by your statements. your state lost federal money due to the tax cuts. now it had to be justified so they used that epa rule to do it. now your state needs to raise more money on its own and the easiest way is to increase property taxes. an easy way to do it is to change the rule on how they value a house and you were the one who said that single floor houses were both more expensive to build more desirable in your area and usually sell for more money. by changing the rule as you described it you just increased the taxes on the lessvaluable houses only and since the less valuable houses are usually bought by people with less money..... now it well may be that you also have one of these multi-level homes and if so welcome to the club. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote if bush jr would have actually accomplished something of value i would have probably voted for him this time but he has not done so and you lnow it. he did. he kept gore out of office. i didnt ask for his failures i asked for what he did positive - now what has kerry done in the past 20 years in the senate that is an accomplishment of value what did bush do prior to his election -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote now what has kerry done in the past 20 years in the senate that is an accomplishment of value what did bush do prior to his election thats your best answer for kerrys 20 years of accomplishments in the senate .

From : miles

tbone wrote in it near it what really is the difference. you seem to really be reaching now. no kerry was reaching when he said he was in cambodia when he wasnt. near it in it same thing only in a liberal warped world. .

From : miles

tbone wrote it is kind of funny to see people like yourself reach to this level out of desperation. reach its funny how kerry brags about his service using lies to do it. and its the reps that are reaching when they call him on his crap whats funny is how you leftys eat up whatever kerry spits out regardless of whether its true or not. .

From : budd cochran

you make no sense at all. exactly what truths would they reveal no tom it would be you that makes no sense at all. you ask a question and when the answer displeases you or shows your lack of knowledge you pull one of these spins. lol the only one spinning in here as usual is you. rotflmbo!!!!! i left your spinning reply in place and you still cant see it. what a loser. . . . the records would reveal evidence to support or disprove kerrys claims ...something he dare not risk maybe they would do no such thing. they would either show some minor error that would bet blown all out of proportion such as the nixon thing or they would agree with him and then be called a complete pack of lies written by kerry himself. we are all well aware of how the right operates. and we are all aware of how the liberal factions work also no better than the conservatives at all. get that thru you head tom. btw what nixon thing i thought the only thing causing trouble in the white house was blown out of proportion by monica . . . . . of course there was lbjs lifting his dog by its ears and kennedy lifting marilyns skirts and . . . . ah yes liberals the epitome of conduct. . . .not. budd .

From : budd cochran

wrong tom or did you forget clintons acceptance to send military to yugoslavia tore him away from his only child right after hes been granted custody of the child and after he had left the military. how could i forget something that i knew nothing about do you not think that this very thing is happening now only many times worse stop spinning and answer the question for a change. how many people did we lose how much did it cost us why did we go look it up. if you wont provide proof then neither will i. if anyone should be dizzy from spinning answers it should be you. iow you know that this answer of yours is full of shit and are once again not man enough to admit it. the funny thing is that we will be thought of in an even worse light down the road because of the iraq thing now. how about we blame it on you then once again you cast aspersions based on yourself and your social values. tom ill give support to my replies when you start giving it. my point being of course that clinton was willing to destroy a family to send a man no longer in the military except as a civilian instructor to fight for a country clinton chose to be a traitor to. lol you stupidity is now beginning to even amaze me. thats your stupidity coming back to haunt you. as i understood nate he was called back in because of a lack of military personel in his field of training because of clintons cut backs. he was completely out of the army a civilian at the time. i see callbacks to active service all of the time now too and it has been alomst 4 years since clinton was in office. you really need to make up your mind budd big army or lower taxes you cant have both. well considering the physical emotional and spiritual damage being done to our military personel thanks to clintons cutbacks id be glad to pay higher taxesd for them. but one question how come ive never heard anyone mention a reduction in their taxes from the cutbacks my point is valid and you spun around it. the liberal decision to close military bases and discharge so many service people was seen by the conservatives as a really screwed up and horribly stupid idea. we were right. what country was clinton a traitor to come on think real hard. i know its a strain for someone that survives on the pap handed down by the liberals with their sweet lies and delicious fairytale dreams but you can do it. now here is what you need to figure it out for yourself what country was bill clinton president of lol in what way was he a traitor could you pump out the desperate right wing bs any faster can you be any dumber any faster his actions as a draft dodger going overseas to avoid the draft and to defame the us while he was there were the actions of a traitor. i find it unfortunate that a conservative gave him a pardon. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving budd yep my chute opened just fine. too bad you were too scared to get on the plane. lol i love flying in any manner using an aircraft. i could have probably enjoyed skydiving. but those things are now a no-no with my health probs. i had to turn down a flight with a friend here in moab in his cessna because of my heart. darn it. scared hardly. i would have been more likely to go up than you because i didnt need a reason other than to slip the surly bounds of earth mr. splaaat. .

From : budd cochran

on wed 25 aug 2004 122943 gmt budd cochran mr-d150@citlinkspam.net wrote you know it would just break toms heart if we got along for more than a week . . . sounds like fun doesnt it shall we vbg budd im not taking sides budd. i welcome a discussion with either you or tom. im just not gonna take it to the toilet any more. you both deserve more respect than that. no problem though tom lost my respect a long time ago. i do thank you for yours and will try to be worthy of it. budd on wed 25 aug 2004 002417 gmt budd cochran mr-d150@citlinkspam.net wrote i know. it hurts. i am sure that we will be able to disagree on something else soon however. oh probably but im not looking forward to it. never the less it is nice to see that you are well and back once again. i have to admit that this time you comment feels sincere to me. thank you. budd it was and you are welcome. .

From : budd cochran

too bad you cant do the same. budd good answer. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving on wed 25 aug 2004 122943 gmt budd cochran mr-d150@citlinkspam.net wrote you know it would just break toms heart if we got along for more than a week . . . sounds like fun doesnt it shall we vbg budd im not taking sides budd. i welcome a discussion with either you or tom. im just not gonna take it to the toilet any more. you both deserve more respect than that. on wed 25 aug 2004 002417 gmt budd cochran mr-d150@citlinkspam.net wrote i know. it hurts. i am sure that we will be able to disagree on something else soon however. oh probably but im not looking forward to it. never the less it is nice to see that you are well and back once again. i have to admit that this time you comment feels sincere to me. thank you. budd it was and you are welcome. .

From : budd cochran

i wouldnt tell you tom because you would spin it and corrupt it and make it look like a bad thing. lol how would that even be possible unless what he has done was only good for a very select group of people. which of course would be the real reason you want to find something on him. no the fact that you cant come up with something of value that he did is why you are so desperate to find something on kerry. you political puppet. ill vote for the candidate i prefer but if kerry got in i wouldnt be nearly as distraught as you will be if bush won again maybe we should put you on a suicide watch . . . thats how possesed you are about getting bush out of office. even if national opinion was against you. sorry budd but it is you are are obsessed with keeping him in even though he has done nothing for the country. as for the national opinion most polls say that if the election were held today that bush would lose so the opinion is much more even than you would like to believe. lol ya gotta stop reading only liberal supported media. just yesterday there were two polls that said the opposite one on yahoo! wow two out of 100. and who was sponcering these polls liberal sources. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving budd those darn lazy liberal pigeons are hitching a ride on my parachute again. yea and what is usually found under a pigeon its shit lol whats the difference between t-bone and pigeon droppings the droppings arent political puppets. budd .

From : miles

tbone wrote and now a serious amount of money is needed so they made that change and once again the poor make up for what was given to the rich. nothing was given to the rich. less was taken from everyone. your warped logic that a tax cut is some sort of gift is just plain absurd. start whining this is very much what happened by your statements. your state lost federal money due to the tax cuts. now it had to be justified so they used that epa rule to do it. now your state needs to raise more money on its own and the easiest way is to increase property taxes. your liberal mind wont allow you to even look into what the issue is. you have no clue about az yet you have assumed how things are here based on pure liberal rhetoric. fyi az had a large surplus from over taxing for years. the tax cuts didnt do a dang thing to it. our previous gov. made a boondoggle whopper of a bad desicion that cost our state millions. our current gov. is the female version of californias ex gov. gray davis. do some research on what happened during our prior govs term before opening your mouth based on far left warped logic. .

From : budd cochran

all of them please provide me with a link. no. look them up for yourself since you never support your claims. as usual you cant back up what you say. pkb. i do but then you just spin it into liberal propaganda. the sad part is that you cant even come up with that much. right. when did you give proof your ramblings about some mysterious formula you couldnt even explain logically what you call spin from me is usually gleanings from the liberal sources you praise so highly. iow tom you cut your own throat and you are happily continuing to do it. were still waiting for kerrys fictionalized accounts. why you will just say that it was lies fabricated by him anyway why not hiding something nothing to hide and no purpose for doing it either. except to substantiate his claim of being a war hero etc. of course. nothing destroys rumor like truth. how could he do that and why should he have to. its a foreign concept to you tom its called honesty. exactly what proof do the ones accusing him have oh yea nothing. lol tom you fool. if kerry has nothing to hide and has an excellent war record then he would shut up the allegations by authorizing the records to be made public. i think he wont do it because the records will not show him to be as he claims. actually one of them was found in bushs election team and was asked to leave. gee no political motivation to lie there huh gee tom twist the truth a bit more and just make it a bald faced lie why dont ya the liberal sources are reporting he left of his own volition to prevent a problem. which was what prove clinton was a traitor and a draft dodger how was he a traitor or a draft dodger oh really tom are you this stupid or what once again unable to answe the question. yep youre that stupid . . . . . . . . and once again you are afraid to back up what you say. i guess that is because the proof that you could possibly come up with is crap from the extreme right web sites and doing it would prove you to be everything that you accuse me of only worse. the sad part tom is im not accusing you of anything other than being a liberal puppet. and youre such a puppet you will resort to altering the liberal sources reports which are already altered from the truth to further try to prove that im the one spinning the replies and not yourself. come on tom. enough of your lies and twists. youve failed to prove kerry is the right candidate but youve also proved how gullible you are to propaganda. this is exactly why kerry would be a fool to release anything in to the hands of bitter little people like yourself. lol as if youre not a bitter little person out to destroy g.w. bush. what a laugh! lol no that would be you and your right wing friends out to destroy kerry because you have nothing else. i vote for who is going to do the best job. i voted for reagan both times bush sr once clinton both times and gore. if bush jr would have actually accomplished something of value i would have probably voted for him this time but he has not done so and you lnow it. what the heck are you talking about it wa a typo get over it. i would probably v o t e for him in t h i s election if he actually proved himself as a good president and he has n o t done that. then please take a few more seconds to calm down when you reply turn on your spellchecker and then edit your replies. it makes you look more dumb than usual when no one can understand your rants. after all youre the one with all the education and lack of common sense because of it. kerrys worse in that he jeopardized the lives of those under his command to gather anti-war information. then used a four bloodless war wounds to get home without doing a full tour. he did a full tour and left early in his second one. proof oh forgot you dont back up your calims. go look it up on his web site for starters. this shows just how little you really know. lol look at the web site of a person who according to a substantial number of detractors lied on his reports to his superiors in order to make his cowardice based on the best supported report of shooting a single fleeing enemy in the back disappear i thought that in this country you are innocent until proven guilty. not according to you. youve violated that so many times it means nothing when you bring it up. where is any proof from these detractors. where are his records and why is kerry afraid to let them be shown why is he still ranting over the bad press from those groups when bush has told them to stop of course kerry wont tell his supporters to stop their similar attacks on bush will he you call him a coward but he volunteered to be on the swift boats in his second tour and they were considered to be one of the most dangerous duties there. you are such a bitt

From : budd cochran

ah geeze am i gonna have to teach you about life too budd how would you know -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving come on tom. its ok to admit you are wrong. budd tbone wrote they do not reassess individual homes bonehead. lol care to put some money on that. sure will. in most states the appraised value is based on average selling price of homes in an area and the square footage of them. you think some guy drives around a city and walks around and inside every home in the city to do an individual appraisal damn i should have put a dollar value on that as i have two cards from the tax assessors office where they wanted to come in and reassess my home. they do it on a county wide basic regardless of how much the homes are worth in a particular area. hahahahahahaha complete bs and probably not even legal. yep you really do think some guy drives around to every single house to do an individual appraisal. maybe in a very small town but that would be the exception and not the rule. i did not live in a small town and they have about three people there that do nothing but.... but even at that it is not done by county or even a city at least not in civilization. the value of homes varies too much from street to street never mind from city to city. because the square footage usually determis the value and i bet that your house iv valued for much less than you could sell it for. a 2000 sf single story home generally will sell for more than a 2000 sf two story home. that depends on the area that you are in. for decades here the county appraised a single story home at a higher factor than a two story home. that changed last year effectively raising the taxes on all multi-story homes. and why do you think you got that tax hike could it possibly be due to a significant reduction in federal aid to your state -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

imho with current laws in effect and enforceable unions are often a dinosaur. at one time yes they were greatly needed but since the mid 60s with government awareness and legislation beginning about health issues work conditions minimum wage etc. all theyve done is added to the inflation spiral. hope you are not talking about osha fra or any other federal enforcement agency. they are toothless imo. they fine the hell out of a company big headlines then a couple of months later the fines are reduced to a slap on the wrist. unfortunately youre correct but as you read i said enforcible laws. osha has done considerable good imho. at that factory you lost one section of a finger every 1-3 years. if you made it to retirement with enough fingers to eat with and sign your name you should be rejoicing. i have all my fingers. a union is made up of individuals they decide who leads the union. in other words you get the representation you deserve. ive always found that you get out of it what you put into it. at least that seems to hold true in my industry. roy ideally you are right but todays unions are more political than anything else.good for you if that remains true but it tends to not remain so. btw what union and industry would that be the muffler factory was unionized by the united brotherhood of carpenters and joiners about the time of ww-2 or korea. when i worked there the union management regularly made policy changes and decisions against the wishes of the rank and file but were solidly entrenched and we were stuck with them. we tried getting the uaw in but the ub of c&j made arrangements behind our backs to terminate the contracts upon the vote count to remove them. the only way to get out of the union once enrolled was to quit the factory. that got you a hidden blackball. i still feel most unions are politically oriented to guarantee their own survival not yours. budd .

From : budd cochran

piggy-backed onto mileshs reply tbone wrote how is this a double standard. if as you say are a workman worthy of your meat daily wages are you saying that an exectutive who probably got the job through family and connections is worth 50 100 or maybe 1000 times more than you if he / she got it that way then most likely they were trained by their parent to run the business. whether they can or not is up to them. you still want a communistic disbursement dont you lol you are so brainwashed. why is it that an executive is allowed to make whatever they want but the common working man is not. au contraire. you obviously know nothing about the powers of boards of directors!!!! they set the incomes for management in most industries. i find it incredible youre not demanding your congressinal reps to reduce their incomes. afterall they are your employees and vote themselves raises regularly. and they dont even give you a forty hour work week for it why do you think that those unions were created in the first place perhaps because while the company owners and execs were living the life of luxury the workers at those factories were working 12 hour a day and are there not laws today preventing 12 hour days setting minimum work conditions wages etc. lol are you for real what a complete load of right wing shit. what union a wants is what its members want a living wage for its members. right same dream scene 3. youll never see the truth will you no different than anything else in the world. its called competition and it sets the cost of goods as well as salaries not if we do it the way youre promoting. thats called communism. budd .

From : miles

tbone wrote and why should a company executive make 300000 a year plus perks and stock options while the average worker at the same company makes 30000. tell me why should a union leader make $300000 a year when the average worker below him makes only 30000 .

From : transurgeon

tbone wrote and why should a company executive make 300000 a year plus perks and stock options while the average worker at the same company makes 30000. tell me why should a union leader make $300000 a year when the average worker below him makes only 30000 ouch ! thats gonna leave a mark ! .

From : budd cochran

here ya go again comparing what someone earns to what someone else earns as a method to define too much. and you do the same thing with your market value crap. funny how it doesnt seem to apply to the execs in the same way. for the average worker its the lowest price and for the exec it is the highest price. apply for a ceo position since you think you are so well qualified . . . and see what the board of directors offers you for your skills and experience . .. . you seem to believe that someones salary should be based on what someone else makes rather than on the jobs skills and societies demand for those skills. i never said any such thing but feel free to continue lying to yourself. yes you did but now you want to lie out of it since its biting your butt like a rabid dog. only an idiot would set a figure without all of the possible variables known and you didnt give me any at all. only an idiot would say someone makes too much simply because they make more than someone else. that is correct in you oh so typical distorted spin and i never said anything like it. yes you did liar. the boss should make more but when you make over 50 times more than your employees that are actually doing the work you are over paid and greedy any way that you spin it. the only one spinning it is you and you try to make your communism look like something else. you are the one contradicting himself with your claims that a person should be paid fairly then saying an executive running the whole darn mess and the one ultimately responsible to the board of directors is overpaid. budd .

From : budd cochran

and that is exactly what you are doing only you are trying to hide it behind market value. spin a little faster tom. you still have some paint left on it. if im doing a $10 / hour quality job thenm i should get it not because im doing a job quality only worth $5 / hour. thats what the scripture meant. thats what i meant. got it more complete bulshit. the fact is that there is a huge supply of people capable of doing those jobs and little demand for it and yet they still make 50 and more times the amount of the lower employees. huh are you claiming you are qualified to run general mills or diamler benz or the local hospital lets see some credentials. as an experience job placement technician i want to see your resume. heck you can barely run your keyboard. yet more bullshit and distortions. sure they do but the question still exists how much more not distortions or bull tom. plain american free enterpriose system facts. and you want it all destroyed. . . . . its not a matter of workers making less since that is expected its how much less. does an initial investment that was long paid back give you an endless permit to oppress your workers with salaries 50 or more times less than yours even though they are the ones doing the actual work many of the highest paid execs have made no investment into the company and just work for them. communist!!!! go read animal farm and then re-read your posts. most of those execs got where they are by working 60-80 hour weeks for many years even if you do not believe that. so what unless they are working 50 or more times as long or as hard where is the justification lol you freaking communist!!! you would not survive in most small business venues. there will always be poor people. what you seem to think is that it is unfair for someone to make more than someone else. lol i never said that even though you keep trying to spin it that way. remember this does an initial investment that was long paid back give you an endless permit to oppress your workers with salaries 50 or more times less than yours even though they are the ones doing the actual work many of the highest paid execs have made no investment into the company and just work for them. and they work at a wage set by a board of directors not at a wage they choose. that would be congressmen. to you life just isnt fair when there are wealthy people and poor people in the same society. once again another spin and another lie. that is the way it is in a society but you seem to think that it doesnt matter how much an exec makes just make sure that the standard worker is kept oppressed by your bullshit supply and demand. lol where did you learn business economics from a comic book apparently you have no real small business experince. liberal radicals such as yourself have tried for decades to bring down the top as a way to help the bottom. it has never ever worked yet you keep trying. can you say communism boner can you say paranoid pinhead. i dont care how much you or anyone else makes but when people like you whine about paying too much in taxes perhaps its because you pay yourself to much in unearned salary. tom im retired on less than $1k / mo. and i think taxes are too high. i have said the same as a successful business person and as a welfare recipient. where the waste of our taxes happens is in inflated congressional wages research that will have no benefit to the human race wasteful government purchases weakening the miltary yes it cost millions to close and mothball those military bases ships planes and equipment or even to destroy them. and the like. lol are you for real what a complete load of right wing shit. what union a wants is what its members want a living wage for its members. living wage why should i be forced to pay you $30 for a $10 job and as you like to say who the fuck are you to put a price on that job or any job for that matter especially when you just bitched at me for doing it. oh i see when someone puts a limit on your type of job its a no-no but when limits are placed on lower level jobs by your opinion thats perfectly acceptable. sorry miles its either one side of the argument or the other not whichever side suits you at the time. sorry tom but you are the one putting limits on earning power or at least you want every ceo in the us to send you money by way off the government. why is it ok for labor to unionize to force above market labor salaries and who sets the market salary why the management and who sets the management salary...oh my god the management. gee could there possibly be a conflict of interest there. your lack of business knowledge is appalling ... and nauseating. market supply and demand should do both not corrupt organizations formed on either side. but it doesnt happen that way. perhaps you shou

From : miles

tbone wrote i dont care how much you or anyone else makes uh...ya you do. otherwise you wouldnt be ranting about someone making too much. and as you like to say who the fuck are you to put a price on that job or any job for that matter especially when you just bitched at me for doing it. i let the market decide on the price. not some rhetoric from the left that decides what is too much. oh i put too much in quotes because it is your term i am quoting since you will not define what you mean by too much except as a comparison to what someone else makes. and who sets the market salary why the management and who sets the management salary...oh my god the management. gee could there possibly be a conflict of interest there. if i own a company i can pay myself anything i damn well please. it is my company. you want someone else to set an owners wage other workers salaries are dictated by market value. but it doesnt happen that way. perhaps you should pick up a history book and see what actually created the unions to begin with. we are not living back then. the reasons for the unions largly do not exist today. the unions have become so big and so large they disrupt the economy more than help it. paying people above market wages just drive up prices of goods and services and creates and endless cycle. read some economic history books since the depression days and learn how union corruption got started. if you think that the greed and corruption that lead to their birth has dissapeared you are an idiot. not that greed and corruption has moved over to the union side of the equation. if a union at my company got that powerfull i would move my company overseas as well. too bad that has no effect when it comes to upper executive salaries. they pay themselves what they want to and remain profitable by cutting the wages of those beneath them. when have wages gone down show me the labor reports that show wages going down. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol could you spin any faster. do i think that he is making too much of course i do and so would anyone else with a functioning brain stem. in this country people are and should be able to make as much as their abilities lead them. hahahahahahaha now thats funny. except when its you that should be paid according to your abilities ... showing the weakness of your argument once again i see. psst! tom!! maybe youre the someone else thats making too much to if youll pardon the expression someone else. didya ever think of that lol sometimes that was true. its the liberal too much mentality that is absurd. no what is absurd is the right wing justification about abilities having anything to do with pay for many corporate execs. so henry ford should not have been paid according to his abilities or alex bell george westinghouse wilber and orville tom bonini who makes infinitely more than the bugs in his house gawd!!! are blind to truth or what the liberal/socialist/communist idea of redistribution of wealth is not the way i for one want this country to go. lol me either and any way that you spin it that is not what i said. yes it is just in politically correct liberal rhetoric instead of truthfulness. wrong once again. it isnt what built this country and it isnt what will keep it going. neither is the level of corporate greed and with the shrinking middle class it isnt whats keeping it going either. tell me something tom. what group of businesses handle 80 - 90 percent of the business cash flow in america what is your point did i say that he needs his taxes raised no! bull. you most certainly did say so. lol now you are just lying. it has nothing to do with how much he makes just that expenses need to be paid. yep and thats why businesses need a maintained profit margin. and reducing high corporate exec salaries is as effective in doing that as fucking the lower paid workers. you support kerrys plan to raise taxes. but you follow like a puppet and call it a rollback. lol it is a rollback. the tax cuts were created with no way to pay for them. now whs tossing terminology around roll-back does kerry think the us will be his private wal-mart for four years why not bush sure has hell did. if we pay higher than now it is a tax hike. otherwise we will call bushs tax cuts simply a rollback of the tax hikes clinton gave us. funny how even with clintons tax hikes a much greater number of people upgraded their standard of liviing as compared to bush and his cuts. who upgraded i never saw any of it. not before i retired or since. i guess that you missed that along with the recession while waiting on that welfare line huh. no shit sherlock but what does that have to do with the discussion at hand and btw you still didnt answer the question. alot. you whined that someone that makes alot more than someone else cant say diddly about their already high taxes going up further. i didnt say cant. i said shouldnt ad with the standard of living that they have they shouldnt. right. tax them to the max 100% and then put them in the poverty brackets. . . would you accept that now you are just being ignorant again how typical. i dont recall any of them going into poverty due to taxes during clintons terms. only 200k lol. do you make more than that miles oh so now 200k is considered evil and greedy and should be taxed accordingly that doesnt answer the question but the way you are whining says that you either do or hope to soon. btw i never said that 200k was either evil or greedy only that people in that tax bracket can afford it better than thoose who make much less. since you believe they can afford it then you must not be in that bracket or wed hear you whining about it. you have no idea how much i have budd and i dont like paying taxes either but it is necessary to keep the country running. my point is that those who make less than i do have less freedom than i have and should not have to pay as much and the same goes for those who make more. fyi i have a sister and brother-in-law that have retired in that bracket and they dont whine as you claim they should. lol then i guess that the taxes didnt break them did they. btw you were the one saying that people would be whining. never have but then they earned their money with careful investments hard work and a thrifty lifestyle. are you saying that they make $200000 or that they have $200000. if they were making that much the really didnt need to live a thrifty life style. do they owe me any of it no i didnt earn it. and this has to do with what if you ran a race and came in third but the judges said everyone came in first and wins the prize would you feel the fourth thru twentieth finishers were rightly awarded do you t

From : tbone

tbone wrote i dont care how much you or anyone else makes uh...ya you do. otherwise you wouldnt be ranting about someone making too much. lol. you are the one that spun it into this. i simply said that those who make so much more than others should not be complaining about taxes. and as you like to say who the fuck are you to put a price on that job or any job for that matter especially when you just bitched at me for doing it. i let the market decide on the price. not some rhetoric from the left that decides what is too much. is this you way of saying that you are running your own buisness. now i see why you have the attitude that you do. and who sets the market salary why the management and who sets the management salary...oh my god the management. gee could there possibly be a conflict of interest there. if i own a company i can pay myself anything i damn well please. gee now who is following the double standard. how come market value doesnt apply to you. could it be greed!!!! it is my company. you want someone else to set an owners wage other workers salaries are dictated by market value. yes once again the double standard. what you fail to mention is that the market value is really nothing more than a silent agreement between the good old boys as to the maximum that they want to pay. it is funny when that silent agreement breaks down and the salaries go crazy or when unions take control of setting the market value. but it doesnt happen that way. perhaps you should pick up a history book and see what actually created the unions to begin with. we are not living back then. the reasons for the unions largly do not exist today. really which ones the unions have become so big and so large they disrupt the economy more than help it. paying people above market wages just drive up prices of goods and services and creates and endless cycle. how are they paying above market wage who sets the market wage whining about this flies in the face of your other arguments about people making as much as they possibly can. execs making huge salaries does the same thing but you dont complain there. perhaps because you want tio be one of them. read some economic history books since the depression days and learn how union corruption got started. lol what does union corruption have to do with it. what about corporate corruption if you think that the greed and corruption that lead to their birth has dissapeared you are an idiot. not that greed and corruption has moved over to the union side of the equation. if a union at my company got that powerfull i would move my company overseas as well. bye. too bad that has no effect when it comes to upper executive salaries. they pay themselves what they want to and remain profitable by cutting the wages of those beneath them. when have wages gone down show me the labor reports that show wages going down. you have already done that for me with your median salary. i made more than that over 10 years ago -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote and why should a company executive make 300000 a year plus perks and stock options while the average worker at the same company makes 30000. tell me why should a union leader make $300000 a year when the average worker below him makes only 30000 i missed this one. road runner really sucks. please give some names of these union leaders or at least where in the union structure they are. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : transurgeon

tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com did his level best to deflect the conversation into a dead-end street when he wrote tbone wrote and why should a company executive make 300000 a year plus perks and stock options while the average worker at the same company makes 30000. tell me why should a union leader make $300000 a year when the average worker below him makes only 30000 i missed this one. road runner really sucks. please give some names of these union leaders or at least where in the union structure they are. why you havent given the names of the executives and ceos who make too much................... is that the new game-plan get the discussion bogged down into a yes-he-does / no-he-doesnt type of back-and-forth instead of answering the question speaking of questions how many businesses have you operated in your life-time were they successful what was your salary what was the salary of your lowest-paid employee at what point will your salary qualify you for one of those tax cuts for the rich in other words at what level of pay does one cease being a poor down-trodden worker and become an elitist capitalist pig who makes too much if offered a tax cut for the rich would you take it if yes why; if no why .

From : miles

tbone wrote gee now who is following the double standard. how come market value doesnt apply to you. could it be greed!!!! greed if i could pay someone else to run the company and not lose everything ive put into it then hell yes i would do it and go on vacation. but i cant. run your own business for a change of pace then see the light. yes once again the double standard. what you fail to mention is that the market value is really nothing more than a silent agreement between the good old boys as to the maximum that they want to pay. oh i see. so all major corporations are corrupt and violate the anti-trust laws. dang liberal left and their tales of wide spread conspiracy based on a few bad apples. everyone isnt evil and greedy tbone. even the wealthy. lol what does union corruption have to do with it. what about corporate corruption one is every bit as bad as the other yet you support unions and are against corporations since most are evil and greedy. i say if either is corrupt then shut them down. you have already done that for me with your median salary. i made more than that over 10 years ago big whoop. the median salary has gone up. if you look at the reports it has gone up faster in the past 4 years than it ever did under clinton. but then you ignore any report that goes against your beliefs of an evil greedy world. .

From : miles

tbone wrote i missed this one. road runner really sucks. please give some names of these union leaders or at least where in the union structure they are. all of the following are presidents or chief directors of their unions. sandra feldman american federation of teachers$350000 jack loveall united food & commercial workers $385000 john mclean writers guild of america west $450000 joseph senese national production workers union $391061 how many do you want i can list many many more. how much do you think the workers under them make whine all you want about corrupt corporations but please add unions to your list. now. i ask once more. is it fair for a union leader to make $300000+ when workers under them make only $30000 union dues hard at work. .

From : transurgeon

i know you were just trying to be funny here right ............ you really cant be that stupid ........ can you can he jerry yep. or at best uneducated about business operations. budd this takes a while to load but is worth it http//www.scaryjohnkerry.com/taxes.htm .

From : mgg

i missed this one. road runner really sucks. please give some names of these union leaders or at least where in the union structure they are. i dated a gal about 15 years back that moonlighted doing the books for the service workers union local in san jose ca. shed go in about 3 times a week at night and i accompanied her a few times. i saw that the head of that local not the union was making $125000/year. he was representing janitors making 7-15 bucks an hour at the time. thats when *i* saw the light about unions never belonged to one so i never had an opinion. howd this bozo get paid of course...by taking it out of the salaries of janitors. if the feds do that its called a tax so i guess by your standards its ok. just not ok for an exec of a company to do it when theres no deduction shown on the paystub. i was on your side for a while there tbone but you just let me know when youre prepared to pay 20 bucks for a big mac just because you think the burger flippers and fry cooks should be making $30+/hour. wake up and get your head out of this liberal rhetoric youre spewing. im a democrat and proud to say it but youre embarrassing me here. hell you just may make me vote for gwb just to spite people like you. btw you are seriously crashing and burning in this argument but keep it up...its fun watching you wiggle. thats just my opinion of course g. --mike tbone wrote and why should a company executive make 300000 a year plus perks and stock options while the average worker at the same company makes 30000. tell me why should a union leader make $300000 a year when the average worker below him makes only 30000 i missed this one. road runner really sucks. please give some names of these union leaders or at least where in the union structure they are. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : jerry

tbone wrote oh bullshit cant you tell the truth just for once. cant you keep your bs straight for more than one post in a row. the only bs around here all comes from you. i clearly said depending on location and we were at the time talking about the midwest and certain states named. but the median salary is not just for the midwest but the whole nation and you could not afford to live on it just about anywhere else. no shit sherlock...... have you already forgotten the word relocation ..........no i guess not as you want the jobs to come to you. the fact is they can do it and you dont like it because it shoots down all the crap you have been spewing in this thread. lol it does no such thing. in fact it does prove another point of mine however. the point being that freedom in this country is money and freedom isnt free. what do i mean i mean that at your great median income you do not have the freedom to live anywhere in this great country that you desire and are forced to the midwest. since those that have more money have more freedoms that they granted unto themselves and freedom isnt free as you right wingers love to say the ones with the most freedom should pay the most for it. good lord you are really grasping at straws now. i guess now like a good little liberal the word midwest will represent everything in your future spins since the midwest was just an example. btw arent you living in nc now want to take a guess at the median income for that state........ were your forced there btw as you should well know the median anything always leans to the high side figure which means the majority of income is below that and they seem to be doing very well really yes really.... do you know the definition of median as it relates here it all depends on how it was calculated and there are many ways and i doubt that they calculated it to the high side. really explain a few of them. no thinks to dimwits like yourself. hahahahahahahaha what an idiot. oh golly the resident troll called me a idiot ......... how will i ever live it down. jerry .

From : jerry

tbone wrote uh...ya you do. otherwise you wouldnt be ranting about someone making too much. lol. you are the one that spun it into this. i simply said that those who make so much more than others should not be complaining about taxes. hmmmmmm ........... actually it seems people like yourself are doing most of the complaining ............... if i own a company i can pay myself anything i damn well please. gee now who is following the double standard. how come market value doesnt apply to you. could it be greed!!!! i know you were just trying to be funny here right ............ you really cant be that stupid ........ can you can he jerry .

From : tbone

tbone wrote i missed this one. road runner really sucks. please give some names of these union leaders or at least where in the union structure they are. all of the following are presidents or chief directors of their unions. like i thought you are picking the top people and comparing them against the bottom but even then you are only seeing a 10 times ratio far short of the 50 to 1000 times that i was complaining about. now. i ask once more. is it fair for a union leader to make $300000+ when workers under them make only $30000 union dues hard at work. sure because we are talking about the extremes in huge organizations and you are only talking about a multiplication factor of 10 times. if those union leaders were making 5 10 20 million like some of the ceos in these large companies ..... -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

i know you were just trying to be funny here right ............ you really cant be that stupid ........ can you can he jerry yep. or at best uneducated about business operations. budd .

From : miles

tbone wrote like i thought you are picking the top people and comparing them against the bottom huh same thing you are doing with corporate presidents. but even then you are only seeing a 10 times ratio far short of the 50 to 1000 times that i was complaining about. you complained about 300k vs 30k. your numbers not mine. now. i ask once more. is it fair for a union leader to make $300000+ when workers under them make only $30000 union dues hard at work. sure because we are talking about the extremes in huge organizations and you are only talking about a multiplication factor of 10 times. if those union leaders were making 5 10 20 million like some of the ceos in these large companies ..... rofl. wait a second here boner. first off those 51020 million are the top people. just above you said they dont count. scroll back a couple of your posts. you compared 300k vs. 30k and said that wasnt right. but it is ok if union leaders do it. geez bonehead quite trying to wiggle out of your own statements. can you say hypocrite .

From : tbone

i missed this one. road runner really sucks. please give some names of these union leaders or at least where in the union structure they are. i dated a gal about 15 years back that moonlighted doing the books for the service workers union local in san jose ca. shed go in about 3 times a week at night and i accompanied her a few times. i saw that the head of that local not the union was making $125000/year. he was representing janitors making 7-15 bucks an hour at the time. thats when *i* saw the light about unions never belonged to one so i never had an opinion. howd this bozo get paid of course...by taking it out of the salaries of janitors. if the feds do that its called a tax so i guess by your standards its ok. just not ok for an exec of a company to do it when theres no deduction shown on the paystub. i never said that. funny how people see what they want to see. actually i am not pro-union and have worked in a few union shops on both sides of the fence. the sad thing is that despite all of their bad it would be worse for all of us if they didnt exist. i could just imagine what those janitors would have been making without their union. as for the salary yea its a bit high and probably due to the same corruption that exists in big buisness. i was on your side for a while there tbone but you just let me know when youre prepared to pay 20 bucks for a big mac just because you think the burger flippers and fry cooks should be making $30+/hour. now you are just being an idiot. i never said that all jobs are or should be high paying but if the day and night manager decided that they should make 80k each you burger would get much more expensive unless of course they compensated by paying less too their employees and hired less of them. wake up and get your head out of this liberal rhetoric youre spewing. im a democrat and proud to say it but youre embarrassing me here. hell you just may make me vote for gwb just to spite people like you. then you would be a weak minded fool. i never said that im pro-union because im not and i dont care how much people make but it does bother me when those who make the most whine the most. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : roy

tbone wrote like i thought you are picking the top people and comparing them against the bottom huh same thing you are doing with corporate presidents. but even then you are only seeing a 10 times ratio far short of the 50 to 1000 times that i was complaining about. you complained about 300k vs 30k. your numbers not mine. now. i ask once more. is it fair for a union leader to make $300000+ when workers under them make only $30000 union dues hard at work. sure because we are talking about the extremes in huge organizations and you are only talking about a multiplication factor of 10 times. if those union leaders were making 5 10 20 million like some of the ceos in these large companies ..... rofl. wait a second here boner. first off those 51020 million are the top people. just above you said they dont count. scroll back a couple of your posts. you compared 300k vs. 30k and said that wasnt right. but it is ok if union leaders do it. geez bonehead quite trying to wiggle out of your own statements. can you say hypocrite most union officials are paid so much per member i believe. just to change pace a bit. was reading the boston globe www.boston.com this morning. remember those 30k new jobs bank of america is laying off 1500 in another merger. article mentioned a total of 12000 jobs going during boa restructureing. roy .

From : milesh

roy wrote most union officials are paid so much per member i believe. sounds like a pyramid scheme! just to change pace a bit. was reading the boston globe www.boston.com rofl. i wouldnt count the boston globe to be a good source of unbiased . remember those 30k new jobs bank of america is laying off 1500 in another merger. article mentioned a total of 12000 jobs going during boa restructureing. 30k new jobs far more new jobs than that over the past 9 months. it is easy to pick out individual lay offs almost every month. been like that for decades. most likely those people will not all be out of a job in the long run. many boa branch offices for instance are being bought out by other banks. did the globe mention that doubtful. .

From : budd cochran

except when its you that should be paid according to your abilities ... showing the weakness of your argument once again i see. no tom showing the communistic side of your argument. as youve described it so far no one is worthy of high pay but you and thats because you are the more worthy one. psst! tom!! maybe youre the someone else thats making too much to if youll pardon the expression someone else. didya ever think of that lol sometimes that was true. then you are a hypocrite. so henry ford should not have been paid according to his abilities or alex bell george westinghouse wilber and orville tom bonini who makes infinitely more than the bugs in his house gawd!!! are blind to truth or what yes it is just in politically correct liberal rhetoric instead of truthfulness. wrong once again. lol with your demonstrated lack of knowledge about how big business functions it can only be you. tell me something tom. what group of businesses handle 80 - 90 percent of the business cash flow in america what is your point translation i dont know and dont want to know ok tom what part of the question do you not understand if you want to reorganize how business works in america you need to learn where the cash flow is. now try again to answer the question. ill rephrase it the largest cash flow volume in america is found in what demographic group of businesses hint what demographic group of business make up the largest percentage of businesses in america you really should look into a good business history course and possibly a course covering hierarchy in large corporations. im not going to continue these lessons much longer. yep and thats why businesses need a maintained profit margin. and reducing high corporate exec salaries is as effective in doing that as fucking the lower paid workers. im still waiting for you to pull proof of these high salaries out of your butt. most if not all major corporations and companies are run by managers hired by boards of directors who set the income levels for those managers and ceos. now its your turn to bring out proof of your view. now whs tossing terminology around roll-back does kerry think the us will be his private wal-mart for four years why not bush sure has hell did. lol proof please media hype is not acceptable. who upgraded i never saw any of it. not before i retired or since. i guess that you missed that along with the recession while waiting on that welfare line huh. oooooh a lowly backstab about my registry for welfare to insure the welfare of my children. and you claim to be such a vanguard for the oppressed ... whups! your anti-social tendencies are showing. right. tax them to the max 100% and then put them in the poverty brackets. . . would you accept that now you are just being ignorant again how typical. i dont recall any of them going into poverty due to taxes during clintons terms. of course not!!! he needed them to have money so he could try and divert some into his campaign coffers. too bad his idea failed. since you believe they can afford it then you must not be in that bracket or wed hear you whining about it. you have no idea how much i have budd and i dont like paying taxes either but it is necessary to keep the country running. my point is that those who make less than i do have less freedom than i have and should not have to pay as much and the same goes for those who make more. good old liberal / communistic doublespeak. i really dont care what you make. my problem with you is that you think you and those blind and dumb followers of the liberal / communist agenda like you think you should determine the worth of anyone with a potential to make more than you. you have no right to decide how much anyone makes not directly or by elected representatives. this is america not cuba or the old u.s.s.r. lol then i guess that the taxes didnt break them did they. btw you were the one saying that people would be whining. no tom i said you would whine as you have been. are you saying that they make $200000 or that they have $200000. if they were making that much the really didnt need to live a thrifty life style. i dont know it wasnt my business like you think it is yours. but here again you make assumptions and figure they would live as you brainwashing tells you they would. they drove a 76 ford ltd from new off the lot till 1990. they replaced it with a new olds cierra which they still drive today just for example of their lifestyle. do they owe me any of it no i didnt earn it. and this has to do with what you. you are the one that feels a need to have a nose in other peopless business and lifestyle. youre the one whinig about people making too much. btw where in the heck did you come up with those numbers 50 100 etc. times the employees wages. ive never seen o

From : budd cochran

i missed this one. road runner really sucks. please give some names of these union leaders or at least where in the union structure they are. uaw af of l/cio or any other large union. where did you study business again oh thats right you didnt. you just swallow everything the liberal commies send your way. hook line sinker rod boat lake state planet and universe. budd .

From : tbone

here ya go again comparing what someone earns to what someone else earns as a method to define too much. and you do the same thing with your market value crap. funny how it doesnt seem to apply to the execs in the same way. for the average worker its the lowest price and for the exec it is the highest price. apply for a ceo position since you think you are so well qualified . . . and see what the board of directors offers you for your skills and experience .. funny you shold mention that. i did apply for a similar position and have an interview next week. . . you seem to believe that someones salary should be based on what someone else makes rather than on the jobs skills and societies demand for those skills. i never said any such thing but feel free to continue lying to yourself. yes you did but now you want to lie out of it since its biting your butt like a rabid dog. lol please show me exactly where i said that. but ill clarify it for you once again. i dont care how much a person makes but when it is 50 or more times that of the employees that work there it is greedy. i dont hate or dislike them for it but it is greedy and if you dont think so then please define greed for me. what i do find funny is the way they whine about taxes especially the right wing ones. sure taxes suck but freedom costs money and the more money you have the more freedom you have. you right wingers like to say that freedom aint free when our men and women are sent to die just dont touch your wallet to pay for it lol. only an idiot would set a figure without all of the possible variables known and you didnt give me any at all. only an idiot would say someone makes too much simply because they make more than someone else. that is correct in you oh so typical distorted spin and i never said anything like it. yes you did liar. prove it. the boss should make more but when you make over 50 times more than your employees that are actually doing the work you are over paid and greedy any way that you spin it. the only one spinning it is you and you try to make your communism look like something else. lol now are you redefining communism you are the one contradicting himself with your claims that a person should be paid fairly then saying an executive running the whole darn mess and the one ultimately responsible to the board of directors is overpaid. i didnt say that they were all overpaid even though you are doing everything in you power to spin it that way. but since you said it if they are the ones ultimately responsible for the health of the company shouldnt they be the first ones to take the shot when the company doesnt do well under their leadership instead of the employees -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

glad i made you laugh but it demonstrates your complete conversion to liberalism. tis you that is brainwashed and youre too naive to notice. in what way i thought that i was a communist. now you upgraded me to a liberal im thrilled - i have to ask how you can support a candidate that lied on military reports just to earn medals iirc it was on cnn lol lets get real. first of all there is no proof of that. just the smearing of some right wing doctor who makes the claim but cannot back it up. funny how with all the hell that this doctor must have seen over there he can remember a minor incident with a no-name soldier. btw that was one purple heart what about the other 4 medals. now if you are using this as a reason for selection of a president there is equally credible proof that he deserted his post and he wasnt even man enough to go at all and hid in the guard. and whos wife cant remember which lie she told to whom after only a few minutes her denial of calling the actions some people un-american at the convention. please where is the proof of this. the un-american thing is usually said by the right wing. walk a mile in my shoes tom before you decide what i should do. please explain. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

i know you were just trying to be funny here right ............ you really cant be that stupid ........ can you can he jerry yep. or at best uneducated about business operations. this sounds funny coming from someone in your financial situation. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

i missed this one. road runner really sucks. please give some names of these union leaders or at least where in the union structure they are. uaw af of l/cio or any other large union. i am not concerned about what particular union but what position within the union structure that they were in. you really seem to be slipping on the comprehension issue lately. where did you study business again oh thats right you didnt. you just swallow everything the liberal commies send your way. hook line sinker rod boat lake state planet and universe. where did you study business budd. and if you were so good at it like you claim why were you on the dole and more than once. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

it loaded pretty fast for me. i guess the popularity of the right wing bs is getting old. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving i know you were just trying to be funny here right ............ you really cant be that stupid ........ can you can he jerry yep. or at best uneducated about business operations. budd this takes a while to load but is worth it http//www.scaryjohnkerry.com/taxes.htm .

From : tbone

tbone wrote gee now who is following the double standard. how come market value doesnt apply to you. could it be greed!!!! greed if i could pay someone else to run the company and not lose everything ive put into it then hell yes i would do it and go on vacation. but i cant. run your own business for a change of pace then see the light. lol yea miles you are the only one that could run a company. there is a big difference between your small company and a large public corporation. yes once again the double standard. what you fail to mention is that the market value is really nothing more than a silent agreement between the good old boys as to the maximum that they want to pay. oh i see. so all major corporations are corrupt and violate the anti-trust laws. of course they do it is just a way of doing buisness and your market value for employee salaries ia a perfect example of it. dang liberal left and their tales of wide spread conspiracy based on a few bad apples. lol it is not a conspiracy just the way buisness is done. there are companies that do nothing but surveys to determine the market value of certian jobs for the other companies to use when setting salaries. everyone isnt evil and greedy tbone. even the wealthy. you dont have to be evil to be greedy. i dont think that you are evil but by what you say you do seem to be a bit greedy or at least not concerned about the welfare of anyone but yourself and that is not generally an evil act. the truly greedy part is when people are unwilling to support the system that gave them so much and even though you think that it was you who did it it is the system and this society that gives you the opportunity and ability to get there. this does not come free. lol what does union corruption have to do with it. what about corporate corruption one is every bit as bad as the other yet you support unions and are against corporations since most are evil and greedy. i say if either is corrupt then shut them down. i dont support unions but that doesnt mean that i dont understand what caused their birth or what they have done for the average employee. the funny thing is that everything you hate the unions for is exactly what goes on in the upper management of these large corporations and if they were to suddenly dissapear it would be a short period of time before we were pretty much back to the same conditions that existed prior to their creation. it is amazing to see one evil force keep another in check. you have already done that for me with your median salary. i made more than that over 10 years ago big whoop. the median salary has gone up. if you look at the reports it has gone up faster in the past 4 years than it ever did under clinton. but then you ignore any report that goes against your beliefs of an evil greedy world. if the salary has gone up as you claim then why are so many people bitching about it. any way you want to spin it the quality of life for many has gone down especially for those working in our field. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : mgg

oh golly the resident troll called me a idiot ......... how will i ever live it down. he called me one to! i just dont know what to do. g --mike tbone wrote oh bullshit cant you tell the truth just for once. cant you keep your bs straight for more than one post in a row. the only bs around here all comes from you. i clearly said depending on location and we were at the time talking about the midwest and certain states named. but the median salary is not just for the midwest but the whole nation and you could not afford to live on it just about anywhere else. no shit sherlock...... have you already forgotten the word relocation .........no i guess not as you want the jobs to come to you. the fact is they can do it and you dont like it because it shoots down all the crap you have been spewing in this thread. lol it does no such thing. in fact it does prove another point of mine however. the point being that freedom in this country is money and freedom isnt free. what do i mean i mean that at your great median income you do not have the freedom to live anywhere in this great country that you desire

From : tbone

and that is exactly what you are doing only you are trying to hide it behind market value. spin a little faster tom. you still have some paint left on it. if im doing a $10 / hour quality job thenm i should get it not because im doing a job quality only worth $5 / hour. thats what the scripture meant. thats what i meant. got it and who sets the rate more complete bulshit. the fact is that there is a huge supply of people capable of doing those jobs and little demand for it and yet they still make 50 and more times the amount of the lower employees. huh are you claiming you are qualified to run general mills or diamler benz or the local hospital lets see some credentials. as an experience job placement technician i want to see your resume. heck you can barely run your keyboard. lol i can run circles around you in many things budd. yet more bullshit and distortions. sure they do but the question still exists how much more not distortions or bull tom. plain american free enterpriose system facts. and you want it all destroyed. . . . . lol only in your little mind. its not a matter of workers making less since that is expected its how much less. does an initial investment that was long paid back give you an endless permit to oppress your workers with salaries 50 or more times less than yours even though they are the ones doing the actual work many of the highest paid execs have made no investment into the company and just work for them. communist!!!! go read animal farm and then re-read your posts. how is that communist most of those execs got where they are by working 60-80 hour weeks for many years even if you do not believe that. so what unless they are working 50 or more times as long or as hard where is the justification lol you freaking communist!!! you would not survive in most small business venues. you can keep thinking that. you would be wrong but what else is new. the problem here is that we are not talking about small buisness here. there will always be poor people. what you seem to think is that it is unfair for someone to make more than someone else. lol i never said that even though you keep trying to spin it that way. remember this does an initial investment that was long paid back give you an endless permit to oppress your workers with salaries 50 or more times less than yours even though they are the ones doing the actual work many of the highest paid execs have made no investment into the company and just work for them. lol and your point is small buisnesses are in a different world than large corporations. and they work at a wage set by a board of directors not at a wage they choose. that would be congressmen. really how many small buisnesses have a board of directors and since they are also part of the good old boys network... to you life just isnt fair when there are wealthy people and poor people in the same society. once again another spin and another lie. that is the way it is in a society but you seem to think that it doesnt matter how much an exec makes just make sure that the standard worker is kept oppressed by your bullshit supply and demand. lol where did you learn business economics from a comic book apparently you have no real small business experince. you keep bragging but have nothing to show for it. btw you house would probably fit in my garage. just because you think that you know a lot about buisness doesnt make it so and the proof is in the pudding. liberal radicals such as yourself have tried for decades to bring down the top as a way to help the bottom. it has never ever worked yet you keep trying. can you say communism boner can you say paranoid pinhead. i dont care how much you or anyone else makes but when people like you whine about paying too much in taxes perhaps its because you pay yourself to much in unearned salary. tom im retired on less than $1k / mo. and i think taxes are too high. i have said the same as a successful business person and as a welfare recipient. at 1k a month you shouldnt even be paying taxes. i think that they are high too but that doesnt change the need for them. where the waste of our taxes happens is in inflated congressional wages why is it that congressional wages are too high but high level execs in big buisness are not. probably because you get billed more directly for them but heres a tip for you you pay those execs salaries in the higher cost of goods and loss of american jobs as well. research that will have no benefit to the human race lol more right wing spin. please name a few of these things. wasteful government purchases and that happens to everybody but what percentage of the budget do you think falls into that catagory weakening the miltary yes it cost millions to close and mothball those military b

From : milesh

more freedoms that they granted unto themselves and freedom isnt free as you right wingers love to say the ones with the most freedom should pay the most for it. good lord you are really grasping at straws now. i guess now like a good little liberal the word midwest will represent everything in your future spins since the midwest was just an example. btw arent you living in nc now want to take a guess at the median income for that state........ were your forced there btw as you should well know the median anything always leans to the high side figure which means the majority of income is below that and they seem to be doing very well really yes really.... do you know the definition of median as it relates here it all depends on how it was calculated and there are many ways and i doubt that they calculated it to the high side. really explain a few of them. no thinks to dimwits like yourself. hahahahahahahaha what an idiot. oh golly the resident troll called me a idiot ......... how will i ever live it down. jerry . 222 287614 cfvuug$amh@dispatch.concentric.net tbone wrote lol yea miles you are the only one that could run a company. there is a big difference between your small company and a large public corporation. i am the only one that loses everything put into it if the company fails. so ya nobody else can run it because nobody else will assume the risk. large corporations are not much different. look at the stock ownership of the major corporate ceos. they have a lot to loose if the company fails. of course they do it is just a way of doing buisness and your market value for employee salaries ia a perfect example of it. liberal mentalitity at its worst. in your mind most corporations are evil and greedy and violate anti-trust laws. while this is completly false i can see where believing it as truth would lead someone down the far radical left road. you dont have to be evil to be greedy. i dont think that you are evil but by what you say you do seem to be a bit greedy or at least not concerned about the welfare of anyone but yourself and that is not generally an evil act. how do you figure employees are well paid. so much that they voted down the forming of a union every single time the unions have approached them. do i make considerably more hell ya. run your own business if you wish to. the truly greedy part is when people are unwilling to support the system that gave them so much they do support it. but it isnt good enough for you lefties. you see the wealthy as a bottomless moneypit. need more $s heck the wealthy have some lets just take some more. you refuse to set any limit. i dont support unions you do not bash unions who are largly just as corrupt as the corporations that you do bash. very one sided. if the salary has gone up as you claim then why are so many people bitching about it. they arent bitching about their own. they are repeating what liberal politicians tell them. like you yourself. are you poor and down in the dumps or is it someone else any way you want to spin it the quality of life for many has gone down especially for those working in our field. any way you want to spin it the quality of life for many has gone up including everyone in my family and at my work. .

From : transurgeon

cant refute what it says eh so you attack the messenger right wing bs it loaded pretty fast for me. i guess the popularity of the right wing bs is getting old. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving i know you were just trying to be funny here right ............ you really cant be that stupid ........ can you can he jerry yep. or at best uneducated about business operations. budd this takes a while to load but is worth it http//www.scaryjohnkerry.com/taxes.htm .

From : tbone

here ya go again comparing what someone earns to what someone else earns as a method to define too much. and you do the same thing with your market value crap. funny how it doesnt seem to apply to the execs in the same way. for the average worker its the lowest price and for the exec it is the highest price. apply for a ceo position since you think you are so well qualified . . .. and see what the board of directors offers you for your skills and experience . funny you shold mention that. i did apply for a similar position and have an interview next week. . . you seem to believe that someones salary should be based on what someone else makes rather than on the jobs skills and societies demand for those skills. i never said any such thing but feel free to continue lying to yourself. yes you did but now you want to lie out of it since its biting your butt like a rabid dog. lol please show me exactly where i said that. but ill clarify it for you once again. i dont care how much a person makes but when it is 50 or more times that of the employees that work there it is greedy. so..............if you alledged interview materializes and you are offered a job as a ceo and your salary is to be 50 or more times that of the employees can we count on seeing you on the cheerfully telling the board of directors that this is too greedy take it back please lol. since that is highly unlikely to happen 50 times the pay im not going to worry about it. but if it did you would be unlikely to see me on tv giving it back but you would also not see me whining on tv about how high my taxes are either. at what multiple of the average workers salary is the greed threshold 5 times 10 times 25 times 49 times you have set 50 times as within the greed area where is the lower limit once again you resort to oversimplified right wing bs. i simply said that it exists and used 50 as a fair assessment. does your boss or the owner of the transmission shop that you work at make 50 times what you do or if you own it do you make 50 times more than your employees cmon youre the one thats always calling people greedy........define the term i already did and multiple times. lets here your definition. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : mopaman

lance armstrong to be stripped of sixth tour de france title cnn is reporting that lance armstrong may be stripped of his 6th tour de france title. in a random check for banned substances three were found in armstrongs hotel room. the substances banned by the french that were found in his hotel room were as follows 1 toothpaste2 deodorant3 soap the french officials also found several other items which they had never seen before including a testicle and a backbone... earlier reports that french government officials attempted to surrender to armstrong as he entered paris were apparently erroneous i have corrected the okie error. -- moparman---remove clothes to reply!! .

From : transurgeon

here ya go again comparing what someone earns to what someone else earns as a method to define too much. and you do the same thing with your market value crap. funny how it doesnt seem to apply to the execs in the same way. for the average worker its the lowest price and for the exec it is the highest price. apply for a ceo position since you think you are so well qualified . . . and see what the board of directors offers you for your skills and experience . funny you shold mention that. i did apply for a similar position and have an interview next week. . . you seem to believe that someones salary should be based on what someone else makes rather than on the jobs skills and societies demand for those skills. i never said any such thing but feel free to continue lying to yourself. yes you did but now you want to lie out of it since its biting your butt like a rabid dog. lol please show me exactly where i said that. but ill clarify it for you once again. i dont care how much a person makes but when it is 50 or more times that of the employees that work there it is greedy. so..............if you alledged interview materializes and you are offered a job as a ceo and your salary is to be 50 or more times that of the employees can we count on seeing you on the cheerfully telling the board of directors that this is too greedy take it back please at what multiple of the average workers salary is the greed threshold 5 times 10 times 25 times 49 times you have set 50 times as within the greed area where is the lower limit cmon youre the one thats always calling people greedy........define the term .

From : budd cochran

this sounds funny coming from someone in your financial situation. the only one concerned about my financial position is you. why is that the apostle paul wrote i have learned to be happy rich and happy poor. i am happy with my financial position. what i see is you lusting after my retirement income. budd .

From : jerry

tbone wrote liberal propeganda when a base commander says that he doesnt remember seeing bush for a year probable is ............. i can think of at least two periods when i stationed at military bases and never saw the base commander even once during the two years i was there. gee i wonder if i was really there........ jerry .

From : budd cochran

glad i made you laugh but it demonstrates your complete conversion to liberalism. tis you that is brainwashed and youre too naive to notice. in what way i thought that i was a communist. now you upgraded me to a liberal im thrilled - well the jurys out on wether youre a liberal commie or a commie liberal .... bout the same when it refers to you. i have to ask how you can support a candidate that lied on military reports just to earn medals iirc it was on cnn lol lets get real. first of all there is no proof of that. just the smearing of some right wing doctor who makes the claim but cannot back it up. funny how with all the hell that this doctor must have seen over there he can remember a minor incident with a no-name soldier. btw that was one purple heart what about the other 4 medals. now if you are using this as a reason for selection of a president there is equally credible proof that he deserted his post and he wasnt even man enough to go at all and hid in the guard. wouldnt doubt it all of anyone trying to ride the coattails of the real jfk just because he has the same initials. the source i heard was quite reputable. and whos wife cant remember which lie she told to whom after only a few minutes her denial of calling the actions some people un-american at the convention. please where is the proof of this. the un-american thing is usually said by the right wing. dont read the much do you just your party line approved propaganda right it was all over yahoo! 10 minutes after it happened. walk a mile in my shoes tom before you decide what i should do. please explain. pathetic. and you dare say i have memory probs. walk a mile in my shoes before you judge my life. as the old saying goes. .

From : budd cochran

i missed this one. road runner really sucks. please give some names of these union leaders or at least where in the union structure they are. uaw af of l/cio or any other large union. i am not concerned about what particular union but what position within the union structure that they were in. you really seem to be slipping on the comprehension issue lately. not as much as you. ive asked you to back up several claims of yours like the multiplication figures you use and you seem to incapable of reading them. where did you study business again oh thats right you didnt. you just swallow everything the liberal commies send your way. hook line sinker rod boat lake state planet and universe. where did you study business budd. and if you were so good at it like you claim why were you on the dole and more than once. again with the attempted backstabbing. you are one sorry vicious little nincompoop. you wonder why i doubt your christianity. let me explain something little boy im not ashamed of having been on welfare as it was to insure my kids welfare. i could have lived off the land if i had to but 2 year olds cant very well. welfare also took away every extra penny i earned while trying to get back off it. it forced a teen aged girl to get herself pregnant to force the social services to declare her an emancipated child to get off it 20 years later. it sucks big time and it doesnt work. as for my business acumen i opened my first business at age 14 mowing lawns in a desert community no lawns yet i earned $5 / hr when the president of the local bank made only $1.25 / hr 1961 ive taken college courses on business management business development. besides the lawn service ive had 3 successful businesses and two failed ones. ive worked as an employment counselor and an assistant manager. iow i have a heck of a lot more experience and knowledge about it than you do apparently since you couldnt answer a few simple questions about business. and i know 80-90 percent of the business cash flow in americva is in thje hands of the small business owners not major corporations as your propaganda would have us believe. i also suspect theres several small business owners that youve convinced they should not vote for kerry. not if their life depended upon it. hey youre the best support bush could ask for ... for the price that is. budd .

From : budd cochran

here ya go again comparing what someone earns to what someone else earns as a method to define too much. and you do the same thing with your market value crap. funny how it doesnt seem to apply to the execs in the same way. for the average worker its the lowest price and for the exec it is the highest price. apply for a ceo position since you think you are so well qualified . . . and see what the board of directors offers you for your skills and experience . funny you shold mention that. i did apply for a similar position and have an interview next week. funny you should suddenly come up with this statement after your previous derogatory statement about my qualifications. very curiously conveniently funny. . . . . . . . . . you seem to believe that someones salary should be based on what someone else makes rather than on the jobs skills and societies demand for those skills. i never said any such thing but feel free to continue lying to yourself. yes you did but now you want to lie out of it since its biting your butt like a rabid dog. lol please show me exactly where i said that. but ill clarify it for you once again. i dont care how much a person makes but when it is 50 or more times that of the employees that work there it is greedy. i dont hate or dislike them for it but it is greedy and if you dont think so then please define greed for me. what i do find funny is the way they whine about taxes especially the right wing ones. sure taxes suck but freedom costs money and the more money you have the more freedom you have. you right wingers like to say that freedom aint free when our men and women are sent to die just dont touch your wallet to pay for it lol. really all right wingers right boy you are niaeve. only an idiot would set a figure without all of the possible variables known and you didnt give me any at all. only an idiot would say someone makes too much simply because they make more than someone else. that is correct in you oh so typical distorted spin and i never said anything like it. yes you did liar. prove it. when you prove the items you have made claims on and not before. the boss should make more but when you make over 50 times more than your employees that are actually doing the work you are over paid and greedy any way that you spin it. the only one spinning it is you and you try to make your communism look like something else. lol now are you redefining communism nope but you are. you are the one contradicting himself with your claims that a person should be paid fairly then saying an executive running the whole darn mess and the one ultimately responsible to the board of directors is overpaid. i didnt say that they were all overpaid even though you are doing everything in you power to spin it that way. but since you said it if they are the ones ultimately responsible for the health of the company shouldnt they be the first ones to take the shot when the company doesnt do well under their leadership instead of the employees hmmm . . . it appears youve never heard of ceo etc. being canned when a business loses profits think lee iacocca. budd .

From : mgg

hear-say or read-type in this case does not cut it for boner. hes proven that over and over. heres one link of many articles on the event http//abc.go.com/wire/politics/ap200407251423.html abc might be too right wing for him to believe though. man if i had a nickel for everything ive said in the past that id like to retract...g --mike tbone wrote i believe you i just want to see it. july 24th 2004 teresa kerry made this statement we need to turn back some of the creeping un-pennsylvanian and sometimes un-american traits that are coming into some of our politics. when asked what she meant by un-american she replied you said something i didnt say now shove it. to me the reporter asked a fair question. teresa should have given some examples of the un-american traits coming into our politcs. .

From : budd cochran

and that is exactly what you are doing only you are trying to hide it behind market value. spin a little faster tom. you still have some paint left on it. if im doing a $10 / hour quality job thenm i should get it not because im doing a job quality only worth $5 / hour. thats what the scripture meant. thats what i meant. got it and who sets the rate yep youre just as illiterate as i suspected .. and with a college degree yet. im glad my sons chose trade schools if youre an example of higher education in america. more complete bulshit. the fact is that there is a huge supply of people capable of doing those jobs and little demand for it and yet they still make 50 and more times the amount of the lower employees. huh are you claiming you are qualified to run general mills or diamler benz or the local hospital lets see some credentials. as an experience job placement technician i want to see your resume. heck you can barely run your keyboard. lol i can run circles around you in many things budd. only in your decieved little braincell only there. yet more bullshit and distortions. sure they do but the question still exists how much more not distortions or bull tom. plain american free enterpriose system facts. and you want it all destroyed. . . . . lol only in your little mind. nope in yours. its not a matter of workers making less since that is expected its how much less. does an initial investment that was long paid back give you an endless permit to oppress your workers with salaries 50 or more times less than yours even though they are the ones doing the actual work many of the highest paid execs have made no investment into the company and just work for them. communist!!!! go read animal farm and then re-read your posts. how is that communist go learn to read then read animal farm. most of those execs got where they are by working 60-80 hour weeks for many years even if you do not believe that. so what unless they are working 50 or more times as long or as hard where is the justification lol you freaking communist!!! you would not survive in most small business venues. you can keep thinking that. you would be wrong but what else is new. the problem here is that we are not talking about small buisness here. if you want to talk about the majority of the business cash flow in america you should not exclude them. there will always be poor people. what you seem to think is that it is unfair for someone to make more than someone else. lol i never said that even though you keep trying to spin it that way. remember this does an initial investment that was long paid back give you an endless permit to oppress your workers with salaries 50 or more times less than yours even though they are the ones doing the actual work many of the highest paid execs have made no investment into the company and just work for them. lol and your point is small buisnesses are in a different world than large corporations. in your world big business is run exactly the same as small businesses with the upper management taking what ever they can from the profits and they work at a wage set by a board of directors not at a wage they choose. that would be congressmen. really how many small buisnesses have a board of directors and since they are also part of the good old boys network... good grief!! you really are this stupid arent you to you life just isnt fair when there are wealthy people and poor people in the same society. once again another spin and another lie. that is the way it is in a society but you seem to think that it doesnt matter how much an exec makes just make sure that the standard worker is kept oppressed by your bullshit supply and demand. lol where did you learn business economics from a comic book apparently you have no real small business experince. you keep bragging but have nothing to show for it. btw you house would probably fit in my garage. just because you think that you know a lot about buisness doesnt make it so and the proof is in the pudding. i wouldnt want my house in your garage the landlord wouldnt know how to run his business. btw bragging about your status is very republican of you. liberal radicals such as yourself have tried for decades to bring down the top as a way to help the bottom. it has never ever worked yet you keep trying. can you say communism boner can you say paranoid pinhead. i dont care how much you or anyone else makes but when people like you whine about paying too much in taxes perhaps its because you pay yourself to much in unearned salary. tom im retired on less than $1k / mo. and i think taxes are too high. i have said the same as a successful business person and as a welfare recipient. at 1k a month you shouldnt even be paying taxes.

From : tbone

this sounds funny coming from someone in your financial situation. the only one concerned about my financial position is you. why is that i am not concerned at all but you speak as if you are all knowing and your current financial position says different. i am happy with my financial position. then i am happy for you. this was never intended as an insult. what i see is you lusting after my retirement income. lol. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote i believe you i just want to see it. july 24th 2004 teresa kerry made this statement we need to turn back some of the creeping un-pennsylvanian and sometimes un-american traits that are coming into some of our politics. when asked what she meant by un-american she replied you said something i didnt say now shove it. to me the reporter asked a fair question. teresa should have given some examples of the un-american traits coming into our politcs. .

From : tbone

i missed this one. road runner really sucks. please give some names of these union leaders or at least where in the union structure they are. uaw af of l/cio or any other large union. i am not concerned about what particular union but what position within the union structure that they were in. you really seem to be slipping on the comprehension issue lately. not as much as you. ive asked you to back up several claims of yours like the multiplication figures you use and you seem to incapable of reading them. what multiplication figures are you referring to the 50 times thing where did you study business again oh thats right you didnt. you just swallow everything the liberal commies send your way. hook line sinker rod boat lake state planet and universe. where did you study business budd. and if you were so good at it like you claim why were you on the dole and more than once. again with the attempted backstabbing. you are one sorry vicious little nincompoop. lol how is this backstabbing i am not trying to be vicious just making a point. you wonder why i doubt your christianity. let me explain something little boy im not ashamed of having been on welfare as it was to insure my kids welfare. i never said that you should be it happens to good people as well as slackers. i simply pointed out that the fact that since you had to do that you dont seem to know as much about finances and business as you claim nothing more. i could have lived off the land if i had to but 2 year olds cant very well. you dont have to explain yourself to me budd. you did what you had to do for your family and i understand that but the fact you wound up there indicates that you are not the all knowing god of finance that you claim yourself to be. welfare also took away every extra penny i earned while trying to get back off it. it forced a teen aged girl to get herself pregnant to force the social services to declare her an emancipated child to get off it 20 years later. it sucks big time and it doesnt work. i agree with you here and you can thank the right for these problems with their tax cuts at any cost and fear of big government. as for my business acumen i opened my first business at age 14 mowing lawns in a desert community no lawns yet i earned $5 / hr when the president of the local bank made only $1.25 / hr 1961 ive taken college courses on business management business development. besides the lawn service ive had 3 successful businesses and two failed ones. ive worked as an employment counselor and an assistant manager. iow i have a heck of a lot more experience and knowledge about it than you do apparently since you couldnt answer a few simple questions about business. here you go with the continuous insults and criticisms but have a hard time getting them back why is that exactly what questions could i not answer and i know 80-90 percent of the business cash flow in americva is in thje hands of the small business owners not major corporations as your propaganda would have us believe. if you are going by goverment reports you must also take into account that 99% of the buisnesses in the us are considerded small buisness. they base the classification at less than 500 employees as a small buisness. that would indicate that 1% of the buisnesses work with 10 to 20 percent of the cash flow and that is a lot of money. i also suspect theres several small business owners that youve convinced they should not vote for kerry. lol i wouldnt count on that. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

my error the abandonment issue that i was referring to was bush and his missing last year. yeah sure ok. ignore the fact that his military records were mislaid by the military i know this happens personally and concentrate on the liberal propaganda. that still doesnt excuse kerry for riding on john kennedys coattails. dont read the much do you just your party line approved propaganda right it was all over yahoo! 10 minutes after it happened. i believe you i just want to see it. well golly gee. . . t-bone actually believing something i wrote. darn near gave me another heart attack . . . .not. i told you where to look. if you want it you look it up. im still waiting for you to give the source for you wage multiplications. walk a mile in my shoes tom before you decide what i should do. please explain. pathetic. and you dare say i have memory probs. walk a mile in my shoes before you judge my life. as the old saying goes. i am not judging your life just doubting your reasoning. liar. everytime you make a snide reference to my health financial status or what ever you show your immaturity lack of touted liberal tolerance lack of knowledge and a judgemental attitude. budd .

From : budd cochran

she did. look at her reply again. budd tbone wrote i believe you i just want to see it. july 24th 2004 teresa kerry made this statement we need to turn back some of the creeping un-pennsylvanian and sometimes un-american traits that are coming into some of our politics. when asked what she meant by un-american she replied you said something i didnt say now shove it. to me the reporter asked a fair question. teresa should have given some examples of the un-american traits coming into our politcs. .

From : budd cochran

heck i could get rich just off trying to educate t-bone. . . . . . . budd hear-say or read-type in this case does not cut it for boner. hes proven that over and over. heres one link of many articles on the event http//abc.go.com/wire/politics/ap200407251423.html abc might be too right wing for him to believe though. man if i had a nickel for everything ive said in the past that id like to retract...g --mike tbone wrote i believe you i just want to see it. july 24th 2004 teresa kerry made this statement we need to turn back some of the creeping un-pennsylvanian and sometimes un-american traits that are coming into some of our politics. when asked what she meant by un-american she replied you said something i didnt say now shove it. to me the reporter asked a fair question. teresa should have given some examples of the un-american traits coming into our politcs. .

From : budd cochran

not as much as you. ive asked you to back up several claims of yours like the multiplication figures you use and you seem to incapable of reading them. what multiplication figures are you referring to the 50 times thing thats one of the figures. what hat did you pull it out of again with the attempted backstabbing. you are one sorry vicious little nincompoop. lol how is this backstabbing i am not trying to be vicious just making a point. no it was a backstab liar. you keep bringing up the time on the dole in an effort to cause me embarrassment. the very wording of the comments proves that. you wonder why i doubt your christianity. let me explain something little boy im not ashamed of having been on welfare as it was to insure my kids welfare. i never said that you should be it happens to good people as well as slackers. i simply pointed out that the fact that since you had to do that you dont seem to know as much about finances and business as you claim nothing more. lol liar. it has nothing to do with my schooling unless you mistakenly think it happened after i took the classes. it was an insult by you please have the guts to admit that. i could have lived off the land if i had to but 2 year olds cant very well. you dont have to explain yourself to me budd. you did what you had to do for your family and i understand that but the fact you wound up there indicates that you are not the all knowing god of finance that you claim yourself to be. you make more assumptions than anyone ive ever known. and it always bites you in the butt. welfare also took away every extra penny i earned while trying to get back off it. it forced a teen aged girl to get herself pregnant to force the social services to declare her an emancipated child to get off it 20 years later. it sucks big time and it doesnt work. i agree with you here and you can thank the right for these problems with their tax cuts at any cost and fear of big government. wrong. those changes came about during the carter administration and were implemented later. your refusal to accept truth is going to cost you dearly some day. as for my business acumen i opened my first business at age 14 mowing lawns in a desert community no lawns yet i earned $5 / hr when the president of the local bank made only $1.25 / hr 1961 ive taken college courses on business management business development. besides the lawn service ive had 3 successful businesses and two failed ones. ive worked as an employment counselor and an assistant manager. iow i have a heck of a lot more experience and knowledge about it than you do apparently since you couldnt answer a few simple questions about business. here you go with the continuous insults and criticisms but have a hard time getting them back why is that exactly what questions could i not answer ah the selective memory of the liberal mindset. you conveniently forget your insults and the questions posed to you. i think you need to see a doctor about your memorry probs. and i know 80-90 percent of the business cash flow in americva is in thje hands of the small business owners not major corporations as your propaganda would have us believe. if you are going by goverment reports you must also take into account that 99% of the buisnesses in the us are considerded small buisness. they base the classification at less than 500 employees as a small buisness. that would indicate that 1% of the buisnesses work with 10 to 20 percent of the cash flow and that is a lot of money. hold it tom step away from the percentages. you cant handle them dont understand them and refuse to accept them remember or is that another item you use when you think it best suits you youre right the large industries flow only about 10-20 percent of the total cash flow. now if you could get 10% of 80 billion dollars or 10% of 20 billion which would you take remember the government is made up of greedy human beings. now you know why big industry really isnt the source of tax income the liberals would have you believe. i also suspect theres several small business owners that youve convinced they should not vote for kerry. lol i wouldnt count on that. unlike you i wont attempt to speak for them i just stated a suspicion. i would like to see an impromptu polling of small business owners and who they would vote for ... but would you .

From : budd cochran

this sounds funny coming from someone in your financial situation. the only one concerned about my financial position is you. why is that i am not concerned at all but you speak as if you are all knowing and your current financial position says different. again you make erroneous assumptions. at least your consistent . . . i am happy with my financial position. then i am happy for you. this was never intended as an insult. liar. what i see is you lusting after my retirement income. lol. you5r the one advocating the leveling of incomes which would have to include social security since the liberals cant seem to quit playing with it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving considering your failure to remember requests made of you failure to provide requested proof for claims made by you and your inability to admit you are an insulting little nincompoop you have become the finest example of your own sigline in the group. congratulations. budd .

From : milesh

tbone wrote lol it was just an arbitrary number derived from an article in the financial section of the paper that listed the top 10 salary increases for ceos in 2003. the lowest one was $5000000 and that was not the end salary that was the increase amount. figures. you whined at me about posting the top union leaders. yet you base your crap on some magazine that listed the top 10. can you say hypocrite tbone .

From : milesh

tbone wrote volunteering to come home and abandoning are two very different things. the fact is that he was brave enough to go there and win medals for what he did including saving anothers life saved one and abandoned several others who were in the water. kerrys swift boat was the only one that fled the area. the others all stayed to help everyone that was tossed into the water. it is from these other boats we have the true story of what took place. not from kerrys boat who left the area. ya some hero. i dont recall seeing any of these pictures he went there to get do you have a link or are you just buying into the right wing bs again. you gotta be kidding here right when he returned he plastered his pictures and stories all over anywhere he could. ya his anti-war campaign upon his return was just right wing bs. .

From : tbone

my error the abandonment issue that i was referring to was bush and his missing last year. yeah sure ok. ignore the fact that his military records were mislaid by the military i know this happens personally and concentrate on the liberal propaganda. lol funny how you only believe what the right wing wants you to believe. it is ok to believe some right wing doctor who of course as nothing to back his claims up but is is just liberal propeganda when a base commander says that he doesnt remember seeing bush for a year and his military records of the time magically seem to be misplaced. dont read the much do you just your party line approved propaganda right it was all over yahoo! 10 minutes after it happened. i believe you i just want to see it. well golly gee. . . t-bone actually believing something i wrote. darn near gave me another heart attack . . . .not. oh well i tried. i told you where to look. if you want it you look it up. im still waiting for you to give the source for you wage multiplications. as you like to tell me the information is out there go look it up. walk a mile in my shoes tom before you decide what i should do. please explain. pathetic. and you dare say i have memory probs. walk a mile in my shoes before you judge my life. as the old saying goes. i am not judging your life just doubting your reasoning. liar. everytime you make a snide reference to my health financial status or what ever you show your immaturity lack of touted liberal tolerance lack of knowledge and a judgemental attitude. lol iow you want everyone to think that you are perfect because that is the only way even half of what you say could be even remotely believable. perhaps you should practice what you preach budd. every chance you get you either insult me or claim that i dont know anything but if i even repeat what you tell me about yourself i am just out to insult you. grow up dude. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

this sounds funny coming from someone in your financial situation. the only one concerned about my financial position is you. why is that i am not concerned at all but you speak as if you are all knowing and your current financial position says different. again you make erroneous assumptions. at least your consistent . . . sorry budd but this is from your own words and pictures that you posted in the group. i am happy with my financial position. then i am happy for you. this was never intended as an insult. liar. lol this is exactly why you get attacked by people the way that you do. even when i try to be nice and explain myself this childish response is all i get. what i see is you lusting after my retirement income. lol. you5r the one advocating the leveling of incomes which would have to include social security since the liberals cant seem to quit playing with it. why does it have to include social security if the right wing has their way it will dissapear all together. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving considering your failure to remember requests made of you failure to provide requested proof for claims made by you and your inability to admit you are an insulting little nincompoop you have become the finest example of your own sigline in the group. this is truly a case of pot kettle black here budd. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote lol funny how you only believe what the right wing wants you to believe. it is ok to believe some right wing doctor who of course as nothing to back his claims up but is is just liberal propeganda when a base commander says that he doesnt remember seeing bush for a year and his military records of the time magically seem to be misplaced. he was paid during that time. records also show he had a medical exam on the base during that time. course youll just ignore that. kerry volunteered to go to nam for one reason. from his own words of the time he went to get pictures and reports to bring home for his anti-war campaign. this is why he also volunteered to come back after getting sufficient purple hearts to do so. nobody forced him to abandon those he left behind. .

From : tbone

not as much as you. ive asked you to back up several claims of yours like the multiplication figures you use and you seem to incapable of reading them. what multiplication figures are you referring to the 50 times thing thats one of the figures. what hat did you pull it out of lol it was just an arbitrary number derived from an article in the financial section of the paper that listed the top 10 salary increases for ceos in 2003. the lowest one was $5000000 and that was not the end salary that was the increase amount. again with the attempted backstabbing. you are one sorry vicious little nincompoop. lol how is this backstabbing i am not trying to be vicious just making a point. no it was a backstab liar. you keep bringing up the time on the dole in an effort to cause me embarrassment. the very wording of the comments proves that. that is because that is all your spiteful angry twisted little mind can see and that is an insult as well as the truth. you wonder why i doubt your christianity. let me explain something little boy im not ashamed of having been on welfare as it was to insure my kids welfare. i never said that you should be it happens to good people as well as slackers. i simply pointed out that the fact that since you had to do that you dont seem to know as much about finances and business as you claim nothing more. lol liar. it has nothing to do with my schooling unless you mistakenly think it happened after i took the classes. it was an insult by you please have the guts to admit that. what the phuck does schooling have to do with this are you saying that you were 100% successful after you took your classes i could have lived off the land if i had to but 2 year olds cant very well. you dont have to explain yourself to me budd. you did what you had to do for your family and i understand that but the fact you wound up there indicates that you are not the all knowing god of finance that you claim yourself to be. you make more assumptions than anyone ive ever known. and it always bites you in the butt. so are you saying that you did ti because you are a lazy slouch where is the assumption welfare also took away every extra penny i earned while trying to get back off it. it forced a teen aged girl to get herself pregnant to force the social services to declare her an emancipated child to get off it 20 years later. it sucks big time and it doesnt work. i agree with you here and you can thank the right for these problems with their tax cuts at any cost and fear of big government. wrong. those changes came about during the carter administration and were implemented later. your refusal to accept truth is going to cost you dearly some day. hahahahahahahahahaha hehehehehehehehehehe yea right. the man who has devoted his life to helping people through habitat for humanity and others is going to fuck the welfare system nice try liar but you can thank tax cut reagan and do nothing bush sr for that. as for my business acumen i opened my first business at age 14 mowing lawns in a desert community no lawns yet i earned $5 / hr when the president of the local bank made only $1.25 / hr 1961 ive taken college courses on business management business development. besides the lawn service ive had 3 successful businesses and two failed ones. ive worked as an employment counselor and an assistant manager. iow i have a heck of a lot more experience and knowledge about it than you do apparently since you couldnt answer a few simple questions about business. here you go with the continuous insults and criticisms but have a hard time getting them back why is that exactly what questions could i not answer ah the selective memory of the liberal mindset. you conveniently forget your insults and the questions posed to you. i think you need to see a doctor about your memorry probs. iow you cant name anything so you need to resort to spin and deception. give me some specific examples or stfu. and i know 80-90 percent of the business cash flow in americva is in thje hands of the small business owners not major corporations as your propaganda would have us believe. if you are going by goverment reports you must also take into account that 99% of the buisnesses in the us are considerded small buisness. they base the classification at less than 500 employees as a small buisness. that would indicate that 1% of the buisnesses work with 10 to 20 percent of the cash flow and that is a lot of money. hold it tom step away from the percentages. you cant handle them dont understand them and refuse to accept them remember or is that another item you use when you think it best suits you you are the one using percentages. i am just putting some real numbers behind them to blow away some of the right wing smoke. youre right the large industrie

From : tbone

tbone wrote liberal propeganda when a base commander says that he doesnt remember seeing bush for a year probable is ............. i can think of at least two periods when i stationed at military bases and never saw the base commander even once during the two years i was there. i think that the base commander in a military base has a little more to do than hold your hand jerry. i would think that things are a little different in the national guard where people are not there permanently especially if one of them is a pilot flying one of our fighters. if he was a cook or just one of the crowd i might believe this but a fighter pilot during wartime yea right. and then there are his magical disappearing military records.... gee i wonder if i was really there........ with they way that you act you probably werent. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : roy

tbone wrote tbone wrote nothing magical about it at all. ive been trying to get some of my own medical records from dod for several years but they havent been found. i dont know if you are aware but there was a fire at a dod records depot in st. louis a number of years ago. a shitload of records were destroyed. that could be why they havent been found. roy .

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol yea miles you are the only one that could run a company. there is a big difference between your small company and a large public corporation. i am the only one that loses everything put into it if the company fails. so ya nobody else can run it because nobody else will assume the risk. large corporations are not much different. look at the stock ownership of the major corporate ceos. they have a lot to loose if the company fails. of course they do it is just a way of doing buisness and your market value for employee salaries ia a perfect example of it. liberal mentalitity at its worst. in your mind most corporations are evil and greedy and violate anti-trust laws. while this is completly false i can see where believing it as truth would lead someone down the far radical left road. it is of course true. you can hide behind the lack of paperwork and deniability if you want to but the truth is out there. how exactly do you decide on the salary of your employees. do you go by what they are making at others if so then you are doing exactly what you say you are not. how are you determining your salary if you are doing it differently then you are following a double standard. you dont have to be evil to be greedy. i dont think that you are evil but by what you say you do seem to be a bit greedy or at least not concerned about the welfare of anyone but yourself and that is not generally an evil act. how do you figure employees are well paid. so much that they voted down the forming of a union every single time the unions have approached them. do i make considerably more hell ya. run your own business if you wish to. do you make 50 times more than the average salary that you pay like i said miles i dont think that you are evil. btw about how many employees do you have. the truly greedy part is when people are unwilling to support the system that gave them so much they do support it. no they dont. they whine cheat and look for every deduction possible even if it may be questionable. i would bet that even after taxes you probably bring home about twice what you pay your average employee gross possibly more. do you really work that much harder than they do and if not then you have a lot of nerve whining about how much the government is taking away from you but it isnt good enough for you lefties. you see the wealthy as a bottomless moneypit. need more $s heck the wealthy have some lets just take some more. you refuse to set any limit. lol just like you refuse to set a limit on what someone should make over their employees. while i dont see the wealthy as a bottomless moneypit they dont seem to have any problem taking all that they can from others or they simply would not be wealthy. if they have no problem doing it then they should not complain when it happens to them. as they say what goes around comes around. i dont support unions you do not bash unions who are largly just as corrupt as the corporations that you do bash. very one sided. we were not talking about unions and i didnt bring them up so whjy shoud i bash them. as bad as they are they still keep many buisnesses in check including yours. if the salary has gone up as you claim then why are so many people bitching about it. they arent bitching about their own. bullshit. perhaps you should read the paper every now and them and stop dismissing every complaint as liberal bs. they are repeating what liberal politicians tell them. like you yourself. are you poor and down in the dumps or is it someone else i am not poor but have had a hard time finding work in nj for any resonable salary. many of my friends have also had a hard time and have been pretty much forced to kill themselves just to keep their jobs so yes im speaking from personal experience and that of people that i know. any way you want to spin it the quality of life for many has

From : tbone

gone down especially for those working in our field. any way you want to spin it the quality of life for many has gone up including everyone in my family and at my work. good for you and yours. its to bad that you happen to be in the minority on that issue no insult intended. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving . 222 287732 fl3vc.198999$th1.10399054@twister.southeast.rr.com and that is exactly what you are doing only you are trying to hide it behind market value. spin a little faster tom. you still have some paint left on it. if im doing a $10 / hour quality job thenm i should get it not because im doing a job quality only worth $5 / hour. thats what the scripture meant. thats what i meant. got it and who sets the rate yep youre just as illiterate as i suspected .. and with a college degree yet. and yet i know the answer and you dont or there would be no need for this lame spin and no answer. im glad my sons chose trade schools if youre an example of higher education in america. so am i. if they are anything like their father its the only chance that they have. more complete bulshit. the fact is that there is a huge supply of people capable of doing those jobs and little demand for it and yet they still make 50 and more times the amount of the lower employees. huh are you claiming you are qualified to run general mills or diamler benz or the local hospital lets see some credentials. as an experience job placement technician i want to see your resume. heck you can barely run your keyboard. lol i can run circles around you in many things budd. only in your decieved little braincell only there. keep dreaming budd. the proof is in the pudding. yet more bullshit and distortions. sure they do but the question still exists how much more not distortions or bull tom. plain american free enterpriose system facts. and you want it all destroyed. . . . . lol only in your little mind. nope in yours. thats true at least i have a mind. its not a matter of workers making less since that is expected its how much less. does an initial investment that was long paid back give you an endless permit to oppress your workers with salaries 50 or more times less than yours even though they are the ones doing the actual work many of the highest paid execs have made no investment into the company and just work for them. communist!!!! go read animal farm and then re-read your posts. how is that communist go learn to read then read animal farm. most of those execs got where they are by working 60-80 hour weeks for many years even if you do not believe that. so what unless they are working 50 or more times as long or as hard where is the justification lol you freaking communist!!! you would not survive in most small business venues. you can keep thinking that. you would be wrong but what else is new. the problem here is that we are not talking about small buisness here. if you want to talk about the majority of the business cash flow in america you should not exclude them. i didnt exclude them but we were not currently not talking about them but it appears that we are now. but even their from what miles says it really is no different for many of them either. the only thing stopping him from paying himself more is that the company isnt big enough yet. there will always be poor people. what you seem to think is that it is unfair for someone to make more than someone else. lol i never said that even though you keep trying to spin it that way. remember this does an initial investment that was long paid back give you an endless permit to oppress your workers with salaries 50 or more times less than yours even though they are the ones doing the actual work many of the highest paid execs have made no investment into the company and just work for them. lol and your point is small buisnesses are in a different world than large corporations. in your world big business is run exactly the same as small businesses with the upper management taking what ever they can from the profits sadly you are correct and prove my point once again pure greed. the only real difference is that smaller companies have less employees to steal it from. thats the funny thing about how it tends to work itself out. the employers take from the employees and then wind up paying more taxes because the employee cant. and they work at a wage set by a board of directors not at a wage they choose. that would be congressmen. really how many small buisnesses have a board of directors and since they are also part of the good old boys network... good grief!! you really are this stupid arent you iow you cant even answer this question and then resort to your childish insults. to

From : jerry

tbone wrote tbone wrote liberal propeganda when a base commander says that he doesnt remember seeing bush for a year probable is ............. i can think of at least two periods when i stationed at military bases and never saw the base commander even once during the two years i was there. i think that the base commander in a military base has a little more to do than hold your hand jerry. bingo ................... same applies to all such as the president whom at that time was just another pilot. i would think that things are a little different in the national guard where people are not there permanently wow ............... another bingo. even more reason for a base commander to allow the department heads to run that section which is the normal way it is done. especially if one of them is a pilot flying one of our fighters. you really know nothing of military operations do you. on a ship there is a chance the co will mingle with a couple of the pilots but it is not that common. on a air base it is very uncommon. however the left wing spin is to convince everyone different and apparently they have been very successful in your case. if he was a cook or just one of the crowd i might believe this but a fighter pilot during wartime yea right. he was a fighter pilot in training not in combat. again you havent a clue what you are talking about. and then there are his magical disappearing military records.... nothing magical about it at all. ive been trying to get some of my own medical records from dod for several years but they havent been found. gee i wonder if i was really there........ with they way that you act you probably werent. aw gee .............. such a witty remark im impressed not. bottom line you may do well to keep your mouth shut about military procedures because you damn well havent a clue what you are talking about and that is proven each time you open you trap. face it troll boy your spins are getting weak and have no validity. jerry .

From : miles

tbone wrote honest employers that pay a fair and living wage. who defines that i did move. you choose poorly then. spin it any way that you want to miles but we are still down about 1000000 jobs so all of these people are not doing just fine. ya kerry gave a speach yesterday in nj talking about how he will solve the horrible employment troubles and high unemployment in the state. well today nj released its employment reports. lowest unemployment in 4 years. well below the national average. im sure youll spin it to suit your needs but njs employment and economic report shows things to be far better than kerry stated in his speach. he should do a bit of research before opening his mouth. .

From : milesh

tbone wrote we were not talking about unions and i didnt bring them up so whjy shoud i bash them. as bad as they are they still keep many buisnesses in check including yours. who keeps the unions in check bullshit. perhaps you should read the paper every now and them and stop dismissing every complaint as liberal bs. ahh the paper tells the real unbiased story huh theyll run a story about some poor person and try to draw lots of emotional interest in it. will they run a story about average employee doing just fine rarely because it doesnt draw the emotional interest. so here ya are reading the paper and buying into the crap based on a few stories. same with your dillusion that most corporations are greedy and make too much. i am not poor but have had a hard time finding work in nj for any resonable salary. then move or change professions. many of my friends have also had a hard time so my friends and family are all doing just great. all have also been through very tough times but pulled through by their own abmitions. good for you and yours. its to bad that you happen to be in the minority on that issue no insult intended. we are not in the minority. the majority of this country is doing just fine. could it be better sure. are they down in the dumps hell no. the liberal left has you convinced most people are down in the dumps. part of the dems campaign 2004. the worst thing that could happen prior to the election that would loose dem votes is to have the economy skyrocket. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol it was just an arbitrary number derived from an article in the financial section of the paper that listed the top 10 salary increases for ceos in 2003. the lowest one was $5000000 and that was not the end salary that was the increase amount. figures. you whined at me about posting the top union leaders. yet you base your crap on some magazine that listed the top 10. can you say hypocrite tbone yea and those top union leaders were making 1/20th the amount of this guys raise alone lol. btw i dont recall saying that they were fair. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol funny how you only believe what the right wing wants you to believe. it is ok to believe some right wing doctor who of course as nothing to back his claims up but is is just liberal propeganda when a base commander says that he doesnt remember seeing bush for a year and his military records of the time magically seem to be misplaced. he was paid during that time. records also show he had a medical exam on the base during that time. course youll just ignore that. actually he lost his fly status because he missed a required medical exam. as for being paid so what. many people have no-show jobs and bush basically turned his last year of service into one. kerry volunteered to go to nam for one reason. from his own words of the time he went to get pictures and reports to bring home for his anti-war campaign. this is why he also volunteered to come back after getting sufficient purple hearts to do so. nobody forced him to abandon those he left behind. volunteering to come home and abandoning are two very different things. the fact is that he was brave enough to go there and win medals for what he did including saving anothers life which is a far cry form our current coward who has no problems sending others to do what he was unwilling to do himself. i dont recall seeing any of these pictures he went there to get do you have a link or are you just buying into the right wing bs again. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote it is a gift given out to the rich. hmm..take something from someone and then give it back as a gift only in the warped radical left world. lol and where do you think that these huge slaries that they pay themselves come from when you give irresponsible tax cuts you really think that holding taxes high during a down economy is being responsible and a good thing it will cause no harm as they were not the cause of the downturn to begin with. lol as if it were really that simple. if you believe that then you really are the fool that i think you are. i guess that buy your standards budd mac denny roy and most of the group are all slackers and bums since none of them are rich and all it takes according to you is to work a little harder. i have more than some and less than others. i do not whine about someone who makes more than me and say they must pay even more taxes than they already do. because it would effect you as well. i would love to see my taxes cut as well but not if it is done with no way to pay for it. lol keep spinning. i didnt say anything like that. i did say that i have no sympathy for them and why should i. they are not asking for sympathy from you. not taxing the crap out of someone because you feel they make too much isnt being sympathetic. so far your main argument for taxing the crap out of someone has been they make too much greedy or they have plenty left. the fact is that their tax rates are already higher than everyone elses. you refuse to state how high the limit should be. only that since they are still rich its ok for kerry to raise them further. more right wing spin. the fact is that they are rich because they have taken it from others and since the ones that they took it from no longer or never had the money to pay the rich are going to have to do it. as for raising taxes i doubt that he will raise them any higher than they were when bush cut them and i dont recall any of them going to the poor house under clintons terms due to taxes. the problem with people like you miles is the more you have the more you want and it doesnt matter where you get it just as long as you have it. i am right back on nothing. bills to run this country need to be paid and who better to do it then the ones that are getting the most from this country and will be effected the least by paying them. they already do pay the highest rates of anyone. so what the question is are they paying their fair share. you seem to have no problem with the amount of money a buisnesss exec or owner can make over their employees so why should we care how much more you are taxed for it over us. i know that you live for the double standard but life has its way of correcting that to a small degree. why do you refuse to state what a responable limit should be because it cannot be quantified so easily. why do you think that there shouldnt be one and yet there should be as far as taxes go once again you show your true ignorance. i see. so you do feel there is a point at which someone is making too much. please tell us all what that point is. youve danced all over whining about those making too much but refuse to state what that figure is. all you do is spin against what someone else makes even though you say no shit sherlock when it is pointed out that the comparison is irrelevant. because you know that there is no fixed point and are counting on that for your right wing spin to work. at what point should taxes be limited on and if you say a flat tax i agree but everything gets taxes and there are no deductions. ah as i thought you are just greedy as the rest of them. where exactly does this money come from so people should not be able to make money because the money comes from people making less can you say communism lol and where is your point where you say enough is enough hahahaha like that has anything to do with it unless you count greed dishonesty conceit knowing the right people and concern about nothing but yourself as abilities. now here is a classic example of the radical far left mentality. the idea that anyone who is very successfull in their life is greedy dishonest conceited or knew the right people. while some people are corrupt and greedy this is the very point that leads you way to the left and is where you are very wrong. most wealthy people are decent and hard working not greedy and evil as you want to believe. just about every one of them fits at least one of these or they would not be or remain rich. of course you do not see it because you also have some of these traits as do i but that does not mean that they do not exist. what many of the rich and hope to be rich are good at is justification and selective vision. ok then what is your definition of greed and by what standard do you determine anothers or ev

From : budd cochran

again you make erroneous assumptions. at least your consistent . . . sorry budd but this is from your own words and pictures that you posted in the group. then you still made assumptions as you have never met me personally. then let me make an assumption about you based on what ive read about you in the group youre a whiney little troll of an nincompoop without the intestinal fortitude to debate in an intelligent manner unwilling to learn about the subject at hand when mechanics are being discussed laqcking the elemental education to understand basic concepts needed for happiness unwilling to to allow another to be content in a lifestyle that pleases them because you are not happy with yours incapable of unselfish thought or action rude to everyone you fear might be a threat to your fragile egotism resorting to spin deceptions lies assumptions and outright viciousness in you percieve a need to save face resulting in huge amounts of hilarity for observants of your pathetic representation in the group and extreme volumes of discouragement for those that would waste time trying to help you see how incredibly idiotic moronic pathetic insensitive hypocritical devious and uneducatable you are. i am happy with my financial position. then i am happy for you. this was never intended as an insult. liar. lol this is exactly why you get attacked by people the way that you do. even when i try to be nice and explain myself this childish response is all i get. many of us are still waiting for you to learn basic engine theory not to mention just growing up and stop being a troll. what i see is you lusting after my retirement income. lol. you5r the one advocating the leveling of incomes which would have to include social security since the liberals cant seem to quit playing with it. why does it have to include social security if the right wing has their way it will dissapear all together. more propaganda. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving considering your failure to remember requests made of you failure to provide requested proof for claims made by you and your inability to admit you are an insulting little nincompoop you have become the finest example of your own sigline in the group. no it shows that you are a troll. budd .

From : budd cochran

oh great! there went my records from basic at leonard wood. budd tbone wrote tbone wrote nothing magical about it at all. ive been trying to get some of my own medical records from dod for several years but they havent been found. i dont know if you are aware but there was a fire at a dod records depot in st. louis a number of years ago. a shitload of records were destroyed. that could be why they havent been found. roy .

From : jerry

roy wrote nothing magical about it at all. ive been trying to get some of my own medical records from dod for several years but they havent been found. i dont know if you are aware but there was a fire at a dod records depot in st. louis a number of years ago. a shitload of records were destroyed. that could be why they havent been found. roy could be but it seems they have a fire up there about every ten years. think they have discovered how to clean out the old records the old fashion way jerry .

From : tbone

you grow up tom. youre the one that doesnt know the truth about big business about automechanics and lord knows what else. and yet im able to prove you wrong time and time again on both issues. youre the one that resorts to name calling everytime an argument goes against you lol perhaps you should reread this thread and see who has been doing most of the name calling. and youre the one that makes such rediculous assumptions about people just because you say it doesnt make it so. all i did was echo back what you said to me no assumptions needed. not to mention these insane arguments you keep starting losing and never realizing how stupid it makes you look. they are only insane to those with closed minds and brainwashed fools like you. what is insane is arguing with a child because there is no way to win or even get a point across and that is exactly what im doing now with you. you really do have the mind of a jealous and stubborn child and will only see what you want to see and to continue this is a waste of time. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

my error the abandonment issue that i was referring to was bush and his missing last year. yeah sure ok. ignore the fact that his military records were mislaid by the military i know this happens personally and concentrate on the liberal propaganda. lol funny how you only believe what the right wing wants you to believe. it is ok to believe some right wing doctor who of course as nothing to back his claims up but is is just liberal propeganda when a base commander says that he doesnt remember seeing bush for a year and his military records of the time magically seem to be misplaced. as i understood the report about kerry the information was from an eyewitness. as for the mislaid files youve never been in the military have you dont read the much do you just your party line approved propaganda right it was all over yahoo! 10 minutes after it happened. i believe you i just want to see it. well golly gee. . . t-bone actually believing something i wrote. darn near gave me another heart attack . . . .not. oh well i tried. now you can claim being a complete failure. i told you where to look. if you want it you look it up. im still waiting for you to give the source for you wage multiplications. as you like to tell me the information is out there go look it up. why should i when you never back up your claims liar. everytime you make a snide reference to my health financial status or what ever you show your immaturity lack of touted liberal tolerance lack of knowledge and a judgemental attitude. lol iow you want everyone to think that you are perfect because that is the only way even half of what you say could be even remotely believable. assumptions are making you a bigger ass all the time. perhaps you should practice what you preach budd. every chance you get you either insult me or claim that i dont know anything but if i even repeat what you tell me about yourself i am just out to insult you. grow up dude. you grow up tom. youre the one that doesnt know the truth about big business about automechanics and lord knows what else. youre the one that resorts to name calling everytime an argument goes against you and youre the one that makes such rediculous assumptions about people not to mention these insane arguments you keep starting losing and never realizing how stupid it makes you look. im sure there are probaly several persons lurking and otherwise that know which of us knows big business better. i would be willing to abide by their opinion would you budd .

From : budd cochran

hey tom i was in the national guard for a total of 10 years. with the first placement i saw the base commanders only when they had a change of commanders ceremony except when i went temporary full time and was assigned to work directly with major jerry trim for 3 months. then i saw him every day. great guy. at the other postings the commander was elsewhere. and yep they didnt always know if i was there or not but their office staff did. budd tbone wrote liberal propeganda when a base commander says that he doesnt remember seeing bush for a year probable is ............. i can think of at least two periods when i stationed at military bases and never saw the base commander even once during the two years i was there. i think that the base commander in a military base has a little more to do than hold your hand jerry. i would think that things are a little different in the national guard where people are not there permanently especially if one of them is a pilot flying one of our fighters. if he was a cook or just one of the crowd i might believe this but a fighter pilot during wartime yea right. and then there are his magical disappearing military records.... gee i wonder if i was really there........ with they way that you act you probably werent. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

i am not poor but have had a hard time finding work in nj for any resonable salary. many of my friends have also had a hard time and have been pretty much forced to kill themselves just to keep their jobs so yes im speaking from personal experience and that of people that i know. well golly gee tom. do you think that a similar situation only in my region of the country much worse could be the reason i went on the dole for my kids as for a reasonable wage knowing what ive learned about you in this thread alone i can see where working in a menial job would be beneath you. budd .

From : budd cochran

not as much as you. ive asked you to back up several claims of yours like the multiplication figures you use and you seem to incapable of reading them. what multiplication figures are you referring to the 50 times thing thats one of the figures. what hat did you pull it out of lol it was just an arbitrary number derived from an article in the financial section of the paper that listed the top 10 salary increases for ceos in 2003. the lowest one was $5000000 and that was not the end salary that was the increase amount. ah then you dont know jack about it at all. worse you refuse in your wrped little brainwashed mind to accept learning when given. again with the attempted backstabbing. you are one sorry vicious little nincompoop. lol how is this backstabbing i am not trying to be vicious just making a point. no it was a backstab liar. you keep bringing up the time on the dole in an effort to cause me embarrassment. the very wording of the comments proves that. that is because that is all your spiteful angry twisted little mind can see and that is an insult as well as the truth. and the attempt to refuse responsibility for your words is a further insult but to the human race. you should let the head liberals know they might want to give you a medal for being such a blind follower. you wonder why i doubt your christianity. let me explain something little boy im not ashamed of having been on welfare as it was to insure my kids welfare. i never said that you should be it happens to good people as well as slackers. i simply pointed out that the fact that since you had to do that you dont seem to know as much about finances and business as you claim nothing more. lol liar. it has nothing to do with my schooling unless you mistakenly think it happened after i took the classes. it was an insult by you please have the guts to admit that. what the phuck does schooling have to do with this are you saying that you were 100% successful after you took your classes what does it matter if i were or were not successful to you my point is you make too many assumptions and use them to create insults. insults that only make you look worse btw. i could have lived off the land if i had to but 2 year olds cant very well. you dont have to explain yourself to me budd. you did what you had to do for your family and i understand that but the fact you wound up there indicates that you are not the all knowing god of finance that you claim yourself to be. you make more assumptions than anyone ive ever known. and it always bites you in the butt. so are you saying that you did ti because you are a lazy slouch where is the assumption there you go making another insulting assumption. you are a complete fool. welfare also took away every extra penny i earned while trying to get back off it. it forced a teen aged girl to get herself pregnant to force the social services to declare her an emancipated child to get off it 20 years later. it sucks big time and it doesnt work. i agree with you here and you can thank the right for these problems with their tax cuts at any cost and fear of big government. wrong. those changes came about during the carter administration and were implemented later. your refusal to accept truth is going to cost you dearly some day. hahahahahahahahahaha hehehehehehehehehehe yea right. the man who has devoted his life to helping people through habitat for humanity and others is going to fuck the welfare system nice try liar but you can thank tax cut reagan and do nothing bush sr for that. you need to look again at history tom. as for my business acumen i opened my first business at age 14 mowing lawns in a desert community no lawns yet i earned $5 / hr when the president of the local bank made only $1.25 / hr 1961 ive taken college courses on business management business development. besides the lawn service ive had 3 successful businesses and two failed ones. ive worked as an employment counselor and an assistant manager. iow i have a heck of a lot more experience and knowledge about it than you do apparently since you couldnt answer a few simple questions about business. here you go with the continuous insults and criticisms but have a hard time getting them back why is that exactly what questions could i not answer ah the selective memory of the liberal mindset. you conveniently forget your insults and the questions posed to you. i think you need to see a doctor about your memorry probs. iow you cant name anything so you need to resort to spin and deception. give me some specific examples or stfu. how about you answer questions posed to you or you stfu since that is usually your response when anyone treats your questions as you do theirs. you want me to answer a question then you answer mine. and i know

From : milesh

tbone wrote the problem with people like you miles is the more you have the more you want and it doesnt matter where you get it just as long as you have it. the problem with people like you tom is the more someone else has the more you want it from them and it doesnt matter how you get it just as long as you get it. so what the question is are they paying their fair share. yes that is the question. they pay a huge disproportionate % of taxes already and you seem to think they are not paying their fair share why because as youve said they are still wealthy. what does the amount thats fair have to do with howmuch someone has left because it cannot be quantified so easily. why do you think that there shouldnt be one and yet there should be as far as taxes go if it cant be quantified so easily then why is it so easy for you to say that anyone who is wealthy isnt paying their fair share of taxes lol and where is your point where you say enough is enough are you suggesting that in your perfect liberal world there should be salary caps anything above that cap is taxed so heavily it becomes pointless to bother making anything beyond that cap just about every one of them fits at least one of these or they would not be or remain rich. oh bs..utter complete bs. if they have money they must be greedy conceited evil or corrupt. oh man. well at least one thing is good. im learning alot more about the warped mentality of the far left. i remember learning these very same concepts back in grade school. it was when they were teaching about communism. and want more and more and more...... but hey is this not the american way. would it be better to live in your communist er liberal world where everyone has the same amount share and share alike no thanks. .

From : budd cochran

aye!!! budd tbone wrote it is a gift given out to the rich. hmm..take something from someone and then give it back as a gift only in the warped radical left world. lol and where do you think that these huge slaries that they pay themselves come from i hereby nominate this as his stupidest statement ever to the group. what say ye .

From : budd cochran

you grow up tom. youre the one that doesnt know the truth about big business about automechanics and lord knows what else. and yet im able to prove you wrong time and time again on both issues. youre the one that resorts to name calling everytime an argument goes against you lol perhaps you should reread this thread and see who has been doing most of the name calling. maybe you should include your derogatory comments when you make that total and youre the one that makes such rediculous assumptions about people just because you say it doesnt make it so. all i did was echo back what you said to me no assumptions needed. all i did was state personal history you made it derogatory. not to mention these insane arguments you keep starting losing and never realizing how stupid it makes you look. they are only insane to those with closed minds and brainwashed fools like you. what is insane is arguing with a child because there is no way to win or even get a point across and that is exactly what im doing now with you. you really do have the mind of a jealous and stubborn child and will only see what you want to see and to continue this is a waste of time. agreed you are a waste of time. but i do try to help the disadvantaged. budd .

From : ramworker

tbone wrote it is a gift given out to the rich. hmm..take something from someone and then give it back as a gift only in the warped radical left world. lol and where do you think that these huge slaries that they pay themselves come from i hereby nominate this as his stupidest statement ever to the group. what say ye .

From : tbone

tbone wrote we were not talking about unions and i didnt bring them up so whjy shoud i bash them. as bad as they are they still keep many buisnesses in check including yours. who keeps the unions in check honest employers that pay a fair and living wage. bullshit. perhaps you should read the paper every now and them and stop dismissing every complaint as liberal bs. ahh the paper tells the real unbiased story huh theyll run a story about some poor person and try to draw lots of emotional interest in it. will they run a story about average employee doing just fine rarely because it doesnt draw the emotional interest. so here ya are reading the paper and buying into the crap based on a few stories. same with your dillusion that most corporations are greedy and make too much. how can a corporation make to much i am not poor but have had a hard time finding work in nj for any resonable salary. then move or change professions. i did move. many of my friends have also had a hard time so my friends and family are all doing just great. all have also been through very tough times but pulled through by their own abmitions. as i have and will when required. good for you and yours. its to bad that you happen to be in the minority on that issue no insult intended. we are not in the minority. the majority of this country is doing just fine. could it be better sure. are they down in the dumps hell no. the liberal left has you convinced most people are down in the dumps. part of the dems campaign 2004. the worst thing that could happen prior to the election that would loose dem votes is to have the economy skyrocket. spin it any way that you want to miles but we are still down about 1000000 jobs so all of these people are not doing just fine. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

again you make erroneous assumptions. at least your consistent . . . sorry budd but this is from your own words and pictures that you posted in the group. then you still made assumptions as you have never met me personally. i am simply repeating what you told me. how is that assuming then let me make an assumption about you based on what ive read about you in the group oh boy here comes the childish tantrum again. defiinition of budd - a whiney little troll of an nincompoop without the intestinal fortitude to debate in an intelligent manner unwilling to learn about the subject at hand when mechanics are being discussed laqcking the elemental education to understand basic concepts needed for happiness unwilling to to allow another to be content in a lifestyle that pleases them because you are not happy with yours incapable of unselfish thought or action rude to everyone you fear might be a threat to your fragile egotism resorting to spin deceptions lies assumptions and outright viciousness in you percieve a need to save face resulting in huge amounts of hilarity for observants of your pathetic representation in the group and extreme volumes of discouragement for those that would waste time trying to help you see how incredibly idiotic moronic pathetic insensitive hypocritical devious and uneducatable you are. lol. i have to admit im glad that you are back. nobody else in here can make me laugh like you do. i am happy with my financial position. then i am happy for you. this was never intended as an insult. liar. lol this is exactly why you get attacked by people the way that you do. even when i try to be nice and explain myself this childish response is all i get. many of us are still waiting for you to learn basic engine theory not to mention just growing up and stop being a troll. sure budd but if that is true how come the last three arguments we had on engines i was right and you were wrong. what i see is you lusting after my retirement income. lol. you5r the one advocating the leveling of incomes which would have to include social security since the liberals cant seem to quit playing with it. why does it have to include social security if the right wing has their way it will dissapear all together. more propaganda. really i guess that you dont actually listen to the man that you intend to vote for speak. either that or you just dont understand it. what do you think he means when he says the privatization of social security -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving considering your failure to remember requests made of you failure to provide requested proof for claims made by you and your inability to admit you are an insulting little nincompoop you have become the finest example of your own sigline in the group. no it shows that you are a troll. lol now you are arguing with yourself. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

you grow up tom. youre the one that doesnt know the truth about big business about automechanics and lord knows what else. and yet im able to prove you wrong time and time again on both issues. youre the one that resorts to name calling everytime an argument goes against you lol perhaps you should reread this thread and see who has been doing most of the name calling. maybe you should include your derogatory comments when you make that total just because you take it that way doesnt make it so. perhaps you should stop bragging about how much you know and then list your failures disproving that knowledge in the same thread. and youre the one that makes such rediculous assumptions about people just because you say it doesnt make it so. all i did was echo back what you said to me no assumptions needed. all i did was state personal history you made it derogatory. i did no such thing but because you would and have every chance you get i could possibly see why you would think that of others. not to mention these insane arguments you keep starting losing and never realizing how stupid it makes you look. they are only insane to those with closed minds and brainwashed fools like you. what is insane is arguing with a child because there is no way to win or even get a point across and that is exactly what im doing now with you. you really do have the mind of a jealous and stubborn child and will only see what you want to see and to continue this is a waste of time. agreed you are a waste of time. but i do try to help the disadvantaged. and it is a good thing that you are willing to help yourself. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote the problem with people like you miles is the more you have the more you want and it doesnt matter where you get it just as long as you have it. the problem with people like you tom is the more someone else has the more you want it from them and it doesnt matter how you get it just as long as you get it. that would only make sense if i was somehow getting that money but since i dont its just more of your spin. so what the question is are they paying their fair share. yes that is the question. they pay a huge disproportionate % of taxes already and you seem to think they are not paying their fair share why because as youve said they are still wealthy. what does the amount thats fair have to do with howmuch someone has left they also have a huge disproportionate of the money as well. the top 5% have 90% of the money. any way you look at it since bills have to be paid who better to pay them than the ones who take the most and can most afford it. because it cannot be quantified so easily. why do you think that there shouldnt be one and yet there should be as far as taxes go if it cant be quantified so easily then why is it so easy for you to say that anyone who is wealthy isnt paying their fair share of taxes because the national dept is growing and so are their bank accounts and thanks to bush it is going from one to the other. lol and where is your point where you say enough is enough are you suggesting that in your perfect liberal world there should be salary caps anything above that cap is taxed so heavily it becomes pointless to bother making anything beyond that cap are you really this stupid i never said that there should be limits or caps and i think that you know that. you just feel the need to keep spinning to try and hide the truth about the greed of most of the upper classes and make it look like im trying to set some stupid ratio which is a complete load of crap. however if you feel the need to make every possible dime you can from others why cant the government do it to you just about every one of them fits at least one of these or they would not be or remain rich. oh bs..utter complete bs. if they have money they must be greedy conceited evil or corrupt. oh man. well at least one thing is good. im learning alot more about the warped mentality of the far left. i remember learning these very same concepts back in grade school. it was when they were teaching about communism. as im learing about the far right and your ability to justify anything. and want more and more and more...... but hey is this not the american way. would it be better to live in your communist er liberal world where everyone has the same amount share and share alike no thanks. thats not what i said or want either. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote volunteering to come home and abandoning are two very different things. the fact is that he was brave enough to go there and win medals for what he did including saving anothers life saved one and abandoned several others who were in the water. kerrys swift boat was the only one that fled the area. the others all stayed to help everyone that was tossed into the water. it is from these other boats we have the true story of what took place. not from kerrys boat who left the area. ya some hero. funny how they cant get confirmation from any of this bs from anyone on kerrys boat but it is believable from a bunch of well backed right wingers who are selling a book. funny how money corrupts. i dont recall seeing any of these pictures he went there to get do you have a link or are you just buying into the right wing bs again. you gotta be kidding here right when he returned he plastered his pictures and stories all over anywhere he could. ya his anti-war campaign upon his return was just right wing bs. and he has every right to do it this is america isnt it and he has even more right because he was there and saw first hand the hell that place was. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : redneck tookover hell

lol and where do you think that these huge slaries that they pay themselves come from i hereby nominate this as his stupidest statement ever to the group. what say ye its right up there with some of da boners other gems kind of hard to believe someone can live for 50 some years and be so ignorant of basic facts of life but politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : redneck tookover hell

any way you look at it since bills have to be paid who better to pay them than the ones who take the most and can most afford it. so by people being wealthy whatever that is or means they take the most wtf is it that they take the most of i guess the poor and illegal aliens by flooding our healthcare system and our welfare system they arent taking anything according to you i guess according to da boner those are entitlements since they are poor and being poor is a permanent thing never to be risen above. people are predestined to stay that way never mind all the billions of dollars poured into social programs since 1965 to supposedly help them out of poverty never mind that under the current income tax system they arent paying any income taxes but are receiving the disportionate amount of benefits boner your logic is truly fucking amazing and truly fucking stupid politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : budd cochran

you grow up tom. youre the one that doesnt know the truth about big business about automechanics and lord knows what else. and yet im able to prove you wrong time and time again on both issues. youre the one that resorts to name calling everytime an argument goes against you lol perhaps you should reread this thread and see who has been doing most of the name calling. maybe you should include your derogatory comments when you make that total just because you take it that way doesnt make it so. perhaps you should stop bragging about how much you know and then list your failures disproving that knowledge in the same thread. i did list my business failures but not the reasons for the failures. in one my supplier couldnt keep up with my orders. in the other i lacked the woodworking equipment to fill my orders from the customer a simple case of demand being far above expectations or projections. unlike your derogatory assumptions i assumed that with the availability of modern electronic toys there wouldnt be much demand for wooden imagination powered toys. sorry but neither failure provides the proof you seek to defame me. and youre the one that makes such rediculous assumptions about people just because you say it doesnt make it so. all i did was echo back what you said to me no assumptions needed. all i did was state personal history you made it derogatory. i did no such thing but because you would and have every chance you get i could possibly see why you would think that of others. by throwing back in my face in wording suggesting i was wholly to blame for my family being on welfare you did insult me. in that economic region at that time i would have worked in any job at any pay to have stayed off the dole something you have stated you are unwilling to do. not to mention these insane arguments you keep starting losing and never realizing how stupid it makes you look. they are only insane to those with closed minds and brainwashed fools like you. what is insane is arguing with a child because there is no way to win or even get a point across and that is exactly what im doing now with you. you really do have the mind of a jealous and stubborn child and will only see what you want to see and to continue this is a waste of time. agreed you are a waste of time. but i do try to help the disadvantaged. and it is a good thing that you are willing to help yourself. might as well you arent worth it. .

From : budd cochran

lol and where do you think that these huge slaries that they pay themselves come from i hereby nominate this as his stupidest statement ever to the group. what say ye its right up there with some of da boners other gems kind of hard to believe someone can live for 50 some years and be so ignorant of basic facts of life but politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. its easy red if you are so brainwashed by the liberals to where you qualify as their role model for kids to where you let the left wing do your thinking for you. budd .

From : budd cochran

again you make erroneous assumptions. at least your consistent . . . sorry budd but this is from your own words and pictures that you posted in the group. then you still made assumptions as you have never met me personally. i am simply repeating what you told me. how is that assuming if you were repeating it would not have been insulting nor an assumption. you have constantly made assumptions about many in this group more about me than you have about most of the others. i guess this is because i find it difficult to stand by while you spout your propaganda and misinformation. then let me make an assumption about you based on what ive read about you in the group oh boy here comes the childish tantrum again. defiinition of budd - a whiney little troll of an nincompoop without the intestinal fortitude to debate in an intelligent manner unwilling to learn about the subject at hand when mechanics are being discussed laqcking the elemental education to understand basic concepts needed for happiness unwilling to to allow another to be content in a lifestyle that pleases them because you are not happy with yours incapable of unselfish thought or action rude to everyone you fear might be a threat to your fragile egotism resorting to spin deceptions lies assumptions and outright viciousness in you percieve a need to save face resulting in huge amounts of hilarity for observants of your pathetic representation in the group and extreme volumes of discouragement for those that would waste time trying to help you see how incredibly idiotic moronic pathetic insensitive hypocritical devious and uneducatable you are. lol. i have to admit im glad that you are back. nobody else in here can make me laugh like you do. darn. i keep forgetting that you lack the mental capacity to write an original response that you can only mutilate and copy what was written about you. its the ng equivalent of same back at you only double. oh well it just continues to show how childish and pathetic you really are .. . . i am happy with my financial position. then i am happy for you. this was never intended as an insult. liar. lol this is exactly why you get attacked by people the way that you do. even when i try to be nice and explain myself this childish response is all i get. many of us are still waiting for you to learn basic engine theory not to mention just growing up and stop being a troll. sure budd but if that is true how come the last three arguments we had on engines i was right and you were wrong. proof what i see is you lusting after my retirement income. lol. you5r the one advocating the leveling of incomes which would have to include social security since the liberals cant seem to quit playing with it. why does it have to include social security if the right wing has their way it will dissapear all together. more propaganda. really i guess that you dont actually listen to the man that you intend to vote for speak. either that or you just dont understand it. what do you think he means when he says the privatization of social security actually if it would keep elected officials hands out of the till it would not be bad. the whole reason s.s. is in dire straits is the elected officials looking at it as an expense account. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving considering your failure to remember requests made of you failure to provide requested proof for claims made by you and your inability to admit you are an insulting little nincompoop you have become the finest example of your own sigline in the group. no it shows that you are a troll. lol now you are arguing with yourself. yep just like youve done on so many more occasions than i have. pkb. budd .

From : miles

tbone wrote that would only make sense if i was somehow getting that money but since i dont its just more of your spin. then it does make sense since you as part of society are getting it. you whine that the wealthy should pay their share into society since they take from it. well guess what. they did pay and you are part of society...oh wait. maybe not. they also have a huge disproportionate of the money as well. the top 5% have 90% of the money. any way you look at it since bills have to be paid who better to pay them than the ones who take the most and can most afford it. i see so tax them higher and higher until it is clear they can afford no more then call that amount fair. if thats not what you mean then by all means please tell us what is fair. i know youll wiggle out and avoid answering as usual. because the national dept is growing and so are their bank accounts and thanks to bush it is going from one to the other. then if you can quantify it in that regard then you must be able to give us a figure that is enough fair and not too much. if you cant because as you say there are too many variables then you cant say that someone isnt already paying enough. so please give us a list of those variables you need to determine if a wealthy individual is making too much paying a fair share or not paying their fair share. my guess is that you have no such list. just arbritary rhetoric based on one person having less than another. are you really this stupid i never said that there should be limits or caps and i think that you know that. you most certainly did say just that as below. please feel free to state your true feelings on each idea. 1 you feel anyone who is wealthy is not paying their fair share. 2 you refuse to state what that fair share should be. 3 you have stated that as long as the gov. needs more money and the wealthy have it then they need to pay more to fund it. 4 the only thing setting a limit would be the wealthy no longer having money left to pay. you can spin your own rhetoric but the end result is as stated. you just feel the need to keep spinning to try and hide the truth about the greed of most of the upper classes in your warped mind anyone wealthy must be greedy or they wouldnt be wealthy. so in your warped perfect world there can be no wealthy individuals. thats not what i said or want either. ya it is. you have stated that if the wealthy were not greedy then they would not be wealthy. that means redistribution of wealth to equalize things. you do not wish to admit it because its not pc to do so but your logic is partly communist in nature. .

From : miles

tbone wrote funny how they cant get confirmation from any of this bs from anyone on kerrys boat but it is believable from a bunch of well backed right wingers who are selling a book. funny how money corrupts. funny how kerrys story is only backed up by those he is whining and dining on his tour. and he has every right to do it this is america isnt it and he has even more right because he was there and saw first hand the hell that place was. sure it is. but then dont try to campaign on it from both sides. he either committed atrocities and should be ashamed he did not report it and stop it when he could or hes a hero. not both. .

From : roy

tbone wrote funny how they cant get confirmation from any of this bs from anyone on kerrys boat but it is believable from a bunch of well backed right wingers who are selling a book. funny how money corrupts. funny how kerrys story is only backed up by those he is whining and dining on his tour. miles according to the military the guy who authored the book and claimed there was no hostile fire at the time is incorrect. the authors citation mentions action while under small arms fire. as does kerrys. they were both awarded medals for their action during the same fire fight. now it would seem either the author did what he claims kerry did or hes not telling the truth in his book. cant really have it both ways. and he has every right to do it this is america isnt it and he has even more right because he was there and saw first hand the hell that place was. sure it is. but then dont try to campaign on it from both sides. he either committed atrocities and should be ashamed he did not report it and stop it when he could or hes a hero. not both. guess ya have to define atrocities. you cant fight a war with rules as we are seeing. that friggin mosque those people are in should have been the target for a arc light imo. screw the civilian causalities. roy .

From : roy

tbone wrote honest employers that pay a fair and living wage. who defines that i did move. you choose poorly then. spin it any way that you want to miles but we are still down about 1000000 jobs so all of these people are not doing just fine. ya kerry gave a speach yesterday in nj talking about how he will solve the horrible employment troubles and high unemployment in the state. well today nj released its employment reports. lowest unemployment in 4 years. well below the national average. of course!! everybody moved the hell out! bfg sorry but i had to. im sure youll spin it to suit your needs but njs employment and economic report shows things to be far better than kerry stated in his speach. he should do a bit of research before opening his mouth. he isnt the only one. the again at least he can form a sentence. roy .

From : tbone

tbone wrote funny how they cant get confirmation from any of this bs from anyone on kerrys boat but it is believable from a bunch of well backed right wingers who are selling a book. funny how money corrupts. funny how kerrys story is only backed up by those he is whining and dining on his tour. the military doesnt agree with you or the loser writing the book. the only ones being wined and dined are the well compensated right wing scum looking to make a second killing on their book. funny how the main author and the one making all of the noise also won a medal for the same incident. i guess that makes him a liar as well. and he has every right to do it this is america isnt it and he has even more right because he was there and saw first hand the hell that place was. sure it is. but then dont try to campaign on it from both sides. he either committed atrocities and should be ashamed he did not report it and stop it when he could or hes a hero. not both. lol. it is not that he is claiming to be a war hero he is claiming to have been in combat and has faced first hand what our current soldiers are now which is something out current president cannot say. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .