guns on campus

From : beekeep

Q: keep in mind that i am one of this places elders. i can remember back when i went to college and students openly carried guns. one physics class the project was to calculate the speed of a bullet. to do this a wood 6x6 was hung by two strings from the ceiling and a line with a piece of paper was strung along the 6x6. by measuring the distance the paper was moved one could calculate how much the 6x6 was raised etc. in the previous class the professor asked if anyone would bring in a gun along with extra ammo so we could weigh the projectiles for the experiment. one student ageed and we fired the gun into the 6x6 a 38 i believe inside the class room! it made one hell of a noise but i cant remember anyone even coming to the door to see what was going on. my point is back when it was easy to pack shit like what happened today just didnt happen. flame away. beekeep .

Replies:

From : steve b

some will argue that they do but then loose credibility when they cant even spell correctly. g or lose even more credibility when they mis-use the word loose sorry you missed the g. steve .

From : nathan in montana

maybe its time for software to control guns ......i think ill control my own thanks. http//media.concealedcarryforum.com/practice.wmv - -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : tom lawrence

http//miltsparks.com/vm-2.htm no left-handed models pfft facists... ^ .

From : ed h

kalifornia plenty of counties in your state issue ccw permits. do the county sheriffs call you for each one to get your consent .

From : azwiley1

absolutely no worries ed have at it. i am enjoying the show as well as my hockey game! oh that neanderthalic my stick is bigger than yours i went to a fight and a hockey game broke out kind of sport. no wonder you are misunderstood! big grin. ; maybe so. lol .

From : miles

tom lawrence wrote bad analogy. not really. with a car one needs to register and license it. technically the same as a gun right thats where the similarity ends. if you fail to register and license a car its very likely youll get caught. not so with a gun. its easier to get a gun without anyone knowing you have it. .

From : beekeep

on 17 apr 2007 161817 -0700 azwiley1 azwiley1@cox.net wrote klumze thanks budd!!! sorry im not bud- hide quoted text - - show quoted text - wow from that biblical novel one sure would have thought other wise. honest mistake. couldnt have been budd he didnt claim to be a victim persicuted or ridiculed! beekeep .

From : Annonymous

on thu 19 apr 2007 183558 gmt tom lawrence tnloaswpraemnmcien5g@earthlink.net wrote accurately know. im 58 and my grandfather gave me a .22 rifle when i was 8. ive been shooting since then. really thats a pretty generic-sounding cartridge there steve. .22 huh well what is it .22lr .22magnum .22-250 lol. .

From : ed h

me tom him ed and i assume him larry are all laughing at your lack of consistency and blatant hipocrasy. and how. .

From : ed h

bwaaahaaa! is that the sound sheep lover makes .

From : ed h

absolutely no worries ed have at it. i am enjoying the show as well as my hockey game! oh that neanderthalic my stick is bigger than yours i went to a fight and a hockey game broke out kind of sport. no wonder you are misunderstood! big grin. ; .

From : tom lawrence

if anyone has any insight id love to hear it. ill post more info soon. broken flexplate broken input shaft broken output shaft no fluid problem actually in transfer case lots of things... start with the simple stuff check t-case check fluid pull inspection cover and check flexplate then report back. .

From : tom lawrence

some will argue that they do but then loose credibility when they cant even spell correctly. g or lose even more credibility when they mis-use the word loose .

From : azwiley1

on apr 16 401 pm hone...@radix.net beekeep wrote keep in mind that i am one of this places elders. i can remember back when i went to college and students openly carried guns. one physics class the project was to calculate the speed of a bullet. to do this a wood 6x6 was hung by two strings from the ceiling and a line with a piece of paper was strung along the 6x6. by measuring the distance the paper was moved one could calculate how much the 6x6 was raised etc. in the previous class the professor asked if anyone would bring in a gun along with extra ammo so we could weigh the projectiles for the experiment. one student ageed and we fired the gun into the 6x6 a 38 i believe inside the class room! it made one hell of a noise but i cant remember anyone even coming to the door to see what was going on. my point is back when it was easy to pack shit like what happened today just didnt happen. flame away. beekeep greg i think this will bring to the forefront again the fact that lives can be saved from a mad man if some one of a responsible nature is carrying. had some one in the area that the first shooting occurred had a gun i seriously doubt the second would have happen. that being said from what i have heard on the and read in it i think the school needs to be held seriously accountable for the second shooting as they felt an fucking email was sufficient enough to get the notice out some 2 hours later. again this type of shit is why i carry and have a ccw. in some places i carry open but most of the time it is concealed. i just dont look like the type that would carry so why show it off and make myself an instant target should anything ever happen. .

From : marsh monster

=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d =3d=3d=3d=3d=3d on apr 16 601=ef=bf=bdpm hone...@radix.net beekeep wrote keep in mind that i am one of this places elders. =a0i can remember back = when i went to college and students openly carried guns. =a0one physics class th= e project was to calculate the speed of a bullet. =a0to do this a wood 6x6 was hung= by two strings from the ceiling and a line with a piece of paper was strung alon= g the 6x6. =a0by measuring the distance the paper was moved one could calculate= how much the 6x6 was raised etc. =a0in the previous class the professor asked if = anyone would bring in a gun along with extra ammo so we could weigh the projecti= les for the experiment. =a0one student ageed and we fired the gun into the 6x= 6 a 38 i believe inside the class room! =a0it made one hell of a noise but i cant remember anyone even coming to the door to see what was going on. =a0 my point is back when it was easy to pack shit like what happened today j= ust didnt happen. flame away. beekeep =3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d =3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d god we ask that you be with these families come into their hearts tonight be with them let them feel your presence. we pray god that those who have fallen come unto you and your mercy be shown. in the name of our lordjesus christ. amen .

From : napalmheart

on apr 16 401 pm hone...@radix.net beekeep wrote keep in mind that i am one of this places elders. i can remember back when i went to college and students openly carried guns. one physics class the project was to calculate the speed of a bullet. to do this a wood 6x6 was hung by two strings from the ceiling and a line with a piece of paper was strung along the 6x6. by measuring the distance the paper was moved one could calculate how much the 6x6 was raised etc. in the previous class the professor asked if anyone would bring in a gun along with extra ammo so we could weigh the projectiles for the experiment. one student ageed and we fired the gun into the 6x6 a 38 i believe inside the class room! it made one hell of a noise but i cant remember anyone even coming to the door to see what was going on. my point is back when it was easy to pack shit like what happened today just didnt happen. flame away. beekeep greg i think this will bring to the forefront again the fact that lives can be saved from a mad man if some one of a responsible nature is carrying. had some one in the area that the first shooting occurred had a gun i se

From : chris thompson

on mon 16 apr 2007 230127 +0000 beekeep wrote keep in mind that i am one of this places elders. i can remember back when i went to college and students openly carried guns. one physics class the project was to calculate the speed of a bullet. to do this a wood 6x6 was hung by two strings from the ceiling and a line with a piece of paper was strung along the 6x6. by measuring the distance the paper was moved one could calculate how much the 6x6 was raised etc. in the previous class the professor asked if anyone would bring in a gun along with extra ammo so we could weigh the projectiles for the experiment. one student ageed and we fired the gun into the 6x6 a 38 i believe inside the class room! it made one hell of a noise but i cant remember anyone even coming to the door to see what was going on. my point is back when it was easy to pack shit like what happened today just didnt happen. flame away. beekeep another testament to what i was saying in the other thread... -- chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd .

From : ed h

yup society really is safer when law abinding citizens can carry concealed weapons and the criminals dont know who is carrying. keep in mind that i am one of this places elders. i can remember back when i went to college and students openly carried guns. one physics class the project was to calculate the speed of a bullet. to do this a wood 6x6 was hung by two strings from the ceiling and a line with a piece of paper was strung along the 6x6. by measuring the distance the paper was moved one could calculate how much the 6x6 was raised etc. in the previous class the professor asked if anyone would bring in a gun along with extra ammo so we could weigh the projectiles for the experiment. one student ageed and we fired the gun into the 6x6 a 38 i believe inside the class room! it made one hell of a noise but i cant remember anyone even coming to the door to see what was going on. my point is back when it was easy to pack shit like what happened today just didnt happen. flame away. beekeep .

From : tom lawrence

my point is back when it was easy to pack shit like what happened today just didnt happen. flame away. no flame at all from here. its legal in the state of virginia to carry a concealed weapon at vt as long as you have a concealed carry permit of course. its vt policy however that anyone found doing so will be expelled. you dont need a gun on campus - youre safe here they said. if anyone ever needs the police just use the call boxes around campus. had even a few students been allowed to protect themselves and by extension others around them this tragedy would have been minimized. vts staff and policies are the reason over 30 people were killed.... first they prohibit their student body from having the ability to defend themselves stating that they can protect them better then they fail to follow through on that protection. .

From : bill dunkenfield

napalmheart wrote on apr 16 401 pm hone...@radix.net beekeep wrote keep in mind that i am one of this places elders. i can remember back when i went to college and students openly carried guns. one physics class the project was to calculate the speed of a bullet. to do this a wood 6x6 was hung by two strings from the ceiling and a line with a piece of paper was strung along the 6x6. by measuring the distance the paper was moved one could calculate how much the 6x6 was raised etc. in the previous class the professor asked if anyone would bring in a gun along with extra ammo so we could weigh the projectiles for the experiment. one student ageed and we fired the gun into the 6x6 a 38 i believe inside the class room! it made one hell of a noise but i cant remember anyone even coming to the door to see what was going on. my point is back when it was easy to pack shit like what happened today just didnt happen. flame away. beekeep greg i think this will bring to the forefront again the fact that lives can be saved from a mad man if some one of a responsible nature is carrying. had some one in the area that the first shooting occurred had a gun i seriously doubt the second would have happen. that being said from what i have heard on the and read in it i think the school needs to be held seriously accountable for the second shooting as they felt an fucking email was sufficient enough to get the notice out some 2 hours later. again this type of shit is why i carry and have a ccw. in some places i carry open but most of the time it is concealed. i just dont look like the type that would carry so why show it off and make myself an instant target should anything ever happen. i agree with you 100%. this sad incident in va is an illustration of the efficacy of gun control laws. ken nra endowment member mcrgo member www.mcrgo.org aint that part of virginia the kinda place yinz guys love aint that part of virginia the buckle of the gun totin belt jam former member of the nra i quit them when they lost their focus .

From : azwiley1

lets put you in a room with 100 random people. if you can pick out the one whos going to lose his mind tomorrow ill back your plan. until then option b still looks like the best plan to me. damn you! you ruined my plans for tomorrow! i was thinking about going postal! .

From : tom lawrence

damn you! you ruined my plans for tomorrow! i was thinking about going postal! i always worried about you larry .

From : xclimation

no flaming but respectful disagreement. you couldnt be much older than me if at all. i went to university of texas. i dont recall students openly carrying guns. as a matter of fact students not carrying guns is a good thing. for one freshmen are 18 years old and wet behind the ears. second as much as we drank back then and what the kids do now; the last i want is guns and alcohol. now picture a scenario where a gunman comes into a class and opens fire. then if 1/4 of the class of sub 22 year olds are packing take out there firearms then chaos and bullets fly everywhere; and if the gunmen actually does get hit so do alot of other unarmed bystanders. also the gunman would change his tactics with respect to everyone packing; and the bodycount is the same if not higher. how about finding a way to keep people from popping a circuit and recognizes signs of someone about to do something like this instead of debating the gun issue keep in mind that i am one of this places elders. i can remember back when i went to college and students openly carried guns. one physics class the project was to calculate the speed of a bullet. to do this a wood 6x6 was hung by two strings from the ceiling and a line with a piece of paper was strung along the 6x6. by measuring the distance the paper was moved one could calculate how much the 6x6 was raised etc. in the previous class the professor asked if anyone would bring in a gun along with extra ammo so we could weigh the projectiles for the experiment. one student ageed and we fired the gun into the 6x6 a 38 i believe inside the class room! it made one hell of a noise but i cant remember anyone even coming to the door to see what was going on. my point is back when it was easy to pack shit like what happened today just didnt happen. flame away. beekeep .

From : tom lawrence

as a matter of fact students not carrying guns is a good thing. i can think of at least 31 students who would probably disagree with that fact. for one freshmen are 18 years old and wet behind the ears. i believe current us law requires one to be 21 to purchase a handgun and therefore most states ccw laws for those states who believe in freedom require the person to be 21. second as much as we drank back then and what the kids do now; the last i want is guns and alcohol. i believe most states have severe punishments for those who consume alcohol while carrying a firearm. since those who apply for and receive ccw permits/licenses tend to follow the law its not unreasonable to think that the firearm/alcohol problem wouldnt be a problem. now picture a scenario where a gunman comes into a class and opens fire. then if 1/4 of the class of sub 22 year olds are packing take out there firearms then chaos and bullets fly everywhere; and if the gunmen actually does get hit so do alot of other unarmed bystanders. picture another scenario where the gunman knowing that he has the only firearm in the room lines everyone up against the wall and kills them one after another. but hey - at least there werent any accidental shootings. also the gunman would change his tactics with respect to everyone packing; you mean like not walking into a building locking everyone in and picking people off at will and the bodycount is the same if not higher. obviously the current philosophy isnt working... so theres two other choices a. ban all firearms. ask the brits or aussies how well that works... b. allow people to defend themselves by carrying their own weapon. how about finding a way to keep people from popping a circuit okay - thats option c - mind control. i gotta admit i missed that one. recognizes signs of someone about to do something like this instead of debating the gun issue lets put you in a room with 100 random people. if you can pick out the one whos going to lose his mind tomorrow ill back your plan. until then option b still looks like the best plan to me. .

From : stephen harding

xclimation wrote now picture a scenario where a gunman comes into a class and opens fire. then if 1/4 of the class of sub 22 year olds are packing take out there firearms then chaos and bullets fly everywhere; and if the gunmen actually does get hit so do alot of other unarmed bystanders. also the gunman would change his tactics with respect to everyone packing; and the bodycount is the same if not higher. ive come to believe everyone packing would have a calming effect on society in the longer run perhaps after an initial bloodbath where it takes criminal and emotionally unstable types to get the message that they dont necessarily outgun the people around them and caution in behavior is required. eventually because there are so many more good people to whackos the whackos get ground down to non-existence or learn to keep a lid on their behavior lest very bad things happen to them. how about finding a way to keep people from popping a circuit and recognizes signs of someone about to do something like this instead of debating the gun issue one must wonder how one can do this especially in an environment where ones individual rights are not to be violated in any way before there is reason; i.e. before someone actually does something bad. i think it would be easier to impress upon the unstable/criminal that there really are personal costs to be paid if one doesnt maintain a cork or their social behavior. with everyone packing a gun ill bet civil discourse would improve dramatically over a long run! smh .

From : bill dunkenfield

ed h. wrote yup society really is safer when law abinding citizens can carry concealed weapons and the criminals dont know who is carrying. the shooter at vt may have been a law abiding citizen until yesterday. jam .

From : xclimation

that would take away form the states ability to govern themselves. it was a federal law that came in to play with assult rifles. how could having a unified nation wide standard hand gun ownership and carrying laws be harmful be unconstitutional or anything else but useful to many people .

From : beekeep

i remember the shootings at texas from the clock tower but iirc they didnt involve a hand gun and hand guns would have been useless unless you were frank cannon. sub 22 year olds is what our goverment preferrs to give weapons too to fight our wars. beekeep on mon 16 apr 2007 233115 -0500 xclimation privacy@privacy.com wrote no flaming but respectful disagreement. you couldnt be much older than me if at all. i went to university of texas. i dont recall students openly carrying guns. as a matter of fact students not carrying guns is a good thing. for one freshmen are 18 years old and wet behind the ears. second as much as we drank back then and what the kids do now; the last i want is guns and alcohol. now picture a scenario where a gunman comes into a class and opens fire. then if 1/4 of the class of sub 22 year olds are packing take out there firearms then chaos and bullets fly everywhere; and if the gunmen actually does get hit so do alot of other unarmed bystanders. also the gunman would change his tactics with respect to everyone packing; and the bodycount is the same if not higher. how about finding a way to keep people from popping a circuit and recognizes signs of someone about to do something like this instead of debating the gun issue keep in mind that i am one of this places elders. i can remember back when i went to college and students openly carried guns. one physics class the project was to calculate the speed of a bullet. to do this a wood 6x6 was hung by two strings from the ceiling and a line with a piece of paper was strung along the 6x6. by measuring the distance the paper was moved one could calculate how much the 6x6 was raised etc. in the previous class the professor asked if anyone would bring in a gun along with extra ammo so we could weigh the projectiles for the experiment. one student ageed and we fired the gun into the 6x6 a 38 i believe inside the class room! it made one hell of a noise but i cant remember anyone even coming to the door to see what was going on. my point is back when it was easy to pack shit like what happened today just didnt happen. flame away. beekeep .

From : bill dunkenfield

corrections. 13 to link all posts to datequote them in their entiretyincluding allheaders and signaturesand add me too. 5 posts to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot handle the lightbulb controversy. 4 to say didnt we go through this a short time ago 13 to say do a search on lightbulbs before posting a question on lightbulbs. 1 to bring politics into the discussionby adding that the current president is not the brightest bulb. 4 more to get into personal attacks over their political views. 1 moderator to lock the light bulb thread. 1 forum lurker to post to the original thread 6 whole months from now and start it al over again. wolfie you left out those that will question the religous ethics of changing the bulb. beekeep .

From : xclimation

partner murphy23@comcast.net wrote in i have narrowed my search down to two tires the toyo open country h/t and the yokohama geolander h/t-s. they are pretty close in price so thats not a factor. if anyone has purchased either of these tires i would like to hear what you think of them. they are lt245/75/r16e our company uses the yokohama geolander tire exclusively on its 5 trucks. our trucks get from 35000 to 90000 miles per year and keeping them rotated at about every 10000 miles we get 60000 to 80000 per vehicle. they are a quiet tire with a fairly good water shedding tread design. they ride very smooth. the first truck that i put them on reminded me of when i put my first set of steel belted radials on. it was like someone had invented a new type of shock absorber. .

From : beekeep

on apr 17 210 pm hone...@radix.net beekeep wrote on tue 17 apr 2007 135744 -0700 steve b surdo2di...@neptune.com wrote btw i saw a lot of cops standing around for a lot of time yesterday too. steve i saw a bunch of them running too. must have been free doughnuts somewhere! beekeep ol boy with that ar damn sure as hell needs to run! .

From : stephen harding

one after another. but hey - at least there werent any accidental shootings. also the gunman would change his tactics with respect to everyone packing; you mean like not walking into a building locking everyone in and picking people off at will and the bodycount is the same if not higher. obviously the current philosophy isnt working... so theres two other choices a. ban all firearms. ask the brits or aussies how well that works... b. allow people to defend themselves by carrying their own weapon. how about finding a way to keep people from popping a circuit okay - thats option c - mind control. i gotta admit i missed that one. recognizes signs of someone about to do something like this instead of debating the gun issue lets put you in a room with 100 random people. if you can pick out the one whos going to lose his mind tomorrow ill back your plan. until then option b still looks like the best plan to me. . 222 333298 smudndyhycymnljbnz2dnuvzsdinz2d@texas.net bob az wrote on apr 16 535pm geminn...@gmail.com wrote is there anything special i have to do to make it work with points or will this distributor work fine. it also appears that the electrical distributor has some sort of extra connection that the points one doesnt. any advice would be appreciated... keep the electronic distributor. i upgraded my 72 318 with an electronic distributor. best thing i ever did. never failed an emission after that and i kept it for 20 more years and 200000 more miles. always started with a bang. oh so youre the guy that made me crap my pants every morning. i see..... bfg bob .

From : stephen harding

xclimation wrote to add further to this do you think we would have world peace if we gave every country a nuclear weapon maybe. nuclear weaponry forces a form of self-regulation that has never occurred before because everyone understands the weapon is a horrible one. look at the us-ussr. for 60 years two nations intensely hostile towards one another armed to the teeth dont go to war directly against one another! has anything like that ever happened before in human history not certain but it must be a very unlikely situation. maybe there is something to be said for every nation having nuclear weapons and every individual carrying a .45 in the name of world peace and social harmony of course! smh .

From : steve b

on sat 14 apr 2007 132644 gmt bill dunkenfield billdunkenfield@nospam.net wrote theguy@whatever.net wrote racial intolerance is at the core of the problem. maybe your mind is at the core of the problem. or your lack of a fucking mind. anyone that continues to endorse it promote it and make hateful racial comments must be put in their place. that place is on the fringes of a decent and honorable society. i am simply amazed at that trash of bullshit that you just spewed out your ass. thank you! you have done more than i could ever do to expose your ignorance. how is life out on the fringes actually not too bad. thank you for asking jam. jam i like living on the fringe. i much prefer small towns and rural america to the big cities. on the fringe you can give out ass whoopings when they are needed. when someone gets uppity or out of hand a .44 mag to the engine block usually slows them down for a while. or just a lit cigarette through an open car window. people on the fringe have a way of dealing with problems that take city people a lot longer to handle. steve .

From : steve b

keep in mind that i am one of this places elders. i can remember back when i went to college and students openly carried guns. one physics class the project was to calculate the speed of a bullet. to do this a wood 6x6 was hung by two strings from the ceiling and a line with a piece of paper was strung along the 6x6. by measuring the distance the paper was moved one could calculate how much the 6x6 was raised etc. in the previous class the professor asked if anyone would bring in a gun along with extra ammo so we could weigh the projectiles for the experiment. one student ageed and we fired the gun into the 6x6 a 38 i believe inside the class room! it made one hell of a noise but i cant remember anyone even coming to the door to see what was going on. my point is back when it was easy to pack shit like what happened today just didnt happen. flame away. beekeep the whole us should be like vermont. in vermont any citizen can carry a concealed firearm so long as they are not carrying it with illegal intent. a gun is like a calculator. it just sits there until you need it. there were about forty people directly involved with the shooter. perhaps that many or more who were close enough to hit him with a baseball. out of that amount of people id say at least 100 if someone had a gun the day might have ended differently. steve .

From : beekeep

bill dunkenfield billdunkenfield@nospam.net wrote would that be the same god that stood by and allowed this to happen jam yeah that be the same god. just because people believe in god it does not exempt them from bad things or death. it just has to do with what happens to them after death. when men stand by and allow these things to happen because of liberal legislation civil rights constitutional nomenclature gaping loopholes and just plain permissive attitudes where in the world does a god figure enter the picture whos supposed to keep everything fair and make everything right btw i saw a lot of cops standing around for a lot of time yesterday too. steve .

From : azwiley1

i think its a good idea too. lets also require people to register and pay a yearly fee in order to speak freely. how about fees to vote we already do. they are called taxes. you do pay them dont you i dont pay taxes in order to have rights why do you both the us constitution and the pa state constitution guarantee the right to keep and bear arms without infringement. requiring an annual registration fee is an infringement and should it pass into law will quickly be shot down as unconstitutional. dont count on it. in this state... bet on it. and like max says your typical gangbanger isnt going to bother registering the gun he just bought illegally on the street corner... so whats the point the point is to reduce the availability of these guns on the street. taxing legal owners would lead to a mass sale of firearms... iow its likely that a tax would push a large amount of weapons into the black market. other than to create a central state-wide registry of every legally-owned firearm.... hmmm... wonder what that could be used for remember katrina i dont have a problem with that either. why do you ever read george orwell -- max join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about. there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author i think that would be a good idea. i think its a good idea too. lets also require people to register and pay a yearly fee in order to speak freely. how about fees to vote we already do. they are called taxes. you do pay them dont you both the us constitution and the pa state constitution guarantee the right to keep and bear arms without infringement. requiring an annual registration fee is an infringement and should it pass into law will quickly be shot down as unconstitutional. dont count on it. the majority of gun owners have less than a dozen guns - therefore the effect of discouraging large collections would be fairly minimal. then the fee upon them would be minimal and they are not usually not the cause of the problem anyway. and like max says your typical gangbanger isnt going to bother registering the gun he just bought illegally on the street corner... so whats the point the point is to reduce the availability of these guns on the street. other than to create a central state-wide registry of every legally-owned firearm.... hmmm... wonder what that could be used for remember katrina i dont have a problem with that either. why do you -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : klumze

on tue 17 apr 2007 090502 -0500 xclimation privacy@privacy.com wrote of course there is severe punishment for possesion under the influence. do you think a 21 year old thinks of this do me a favor and study possible scenarios if at least 1/4 of 50 people had a gun. first off a percentage will panic and unload anywhere. another percentage will unload on anything that moves. a trained police officer at a range of 10 feet with a handgun in a firefight will hit the intended target an average of 2-3 times per 10 shots. dont believe me ask a police officer or someone who knows what they are talking about. i am talking a trained police officer who has experience extensive training and practice and who has to requalify every year. i am also considering the gun man not wearing body armour because that changes things as well. the problem is people either watch too much tv or only shoot in a range under ideal conditions and do not understand just how inaccurate a hand gun really is. i am not advocating taking everyones guns away. i just think the whole thought process of advocating everyone to carry a firearm is ridiculous. if you are going to look at it from a psycological point of view then you must consider that the people that do these types of things are generally cowards in the first place and would think twice before commiting such acts. also something that is never talked about is the mental affect of carrying a firearm. im talking about the superiority complex some get when carrying a firearm. this is something that is also studied and i encourage others to do their own research for themselves on it. i call it the deputy dawg syndrome. these are the people that end up going into law enforcement so they end up carrying a gun anyway. if the gunman lines up everyone as you say then at least this gives extra time for a trained individual to respond as well as give the gunman a chance to think twice. ill take my chances with this over bullets flying wildly everyone not giving a chance for the situation to be controlled. the perps accuracy would be greatly reduced if hes seeking cover. the total number killed would likely be reduced. as i said im not for banning all firearms but if you want to ask the brits or aussies as you state; you will notice that these mass shootings do not happen as near as much as here in the united states. do you think that no one in great britian or australia has a firearm maybe i recommend famialiarizing yourself with the gun laws of these countries. a private citizen can own a firearm in these countries. your mind control argument is over reaching dont you think i never said anything about mind control. with all due respect this sounds like the black helicopter conspiracy theorists that are in militias. im talking about researching the root cause of what makes one malfunction like this. whether you like it or not science will find a way to recognize these individuals before something like this happens. it struck me a little wierd that the flags are at half mast. arent that many soldiers dying every week abroad the is all about the senseless deaths yet they never mention the numbers that die in auto accidents every year. that number is equal to two full 747s going down every week! i see the gun banners are coming out of the wood work again. they just dont get it. beekeep .

From : klumze

would that be the same god that stood by and allowed this to happen yep. the same one that watches as children are run over by cars tortured and starved to death by evil parents and who allows all bad things to happen. god is no respecter of man it says in the bible. and if you believe in him you will have everlasting life. and if you dont then you just go to hell and listen to endless speeches by hillary clinton and ted kennedy. steve .

From : steve b

i found this in another forum --------------------------- 48 re designed to fail i have been building transmissions for over 25 years and the 48 re transmission is definitely stronger that the 47re as a lot of improvements have been made. however i am not impressed. we are already seeing failures in the 48 res. a $7 part is going to cost you guys by the time the dust settles if you are off your oem warranty over $2000. as a transmission technician i have to wonder what were these guys thinking. the guys that design these transmissions are at the top of their field you wont find any better. this is not a mistake they would make. someone had to make the decision to engineer this change into this transmission. it is reasonable to assume that if i can for see the damage the lack of lubrication will cause these guys must also know it. . so why the sudden change the existing design of this particular oem component was not failing. its design has been around longer than i have been building transmissions. it makes sense that if you have a problem with a certain part of the transmission you change it. so again one has to wonder why the sudden change please keep in mind this post is not intended to slam the 48re as they have had vast improvements made to them. this is not even an expensive parts fix the most important thing here is for the consumer to make sure that the shop and the technician doing the modification has the required expertise to fix it or at least they are aware of it before they do the job so you have the opportunity to choose which way you wish to go. here is why i do not like the new design and why it is causing the damage i am seeing. basically the thrust washer is starving itself for oil. what chrysler did is they drilled 6 holes at 120 thou in the rear annulus gear. what this allows to happen is as the planetary gear rotates the oil is forced out at a faster rate because it is fed by a single hole less than 60thou. to put it simply there is not enough oil to lubricate the thrust washer that separates the rear planetary gear and the rear annulus gear. to fix this requires a skilled professional about 2 hours labor once the transmission is out and on the bench and the valve body has been removed. the way the transmission is designed now all i can say is that the approx. life is about 50 thousand miles before you are going to start seeing rear planetary rear annulus gear and rear thrust washer failure. as we have not done a 48 in our personal shop with over 20000 miles the ones we have been doing are definitely showing signs of thrust washer damage already. however my dealer base general consumers and even other vendor shops have been contacting us for assistance with this issue. i will repeat the advice that i have given them to you guys it does not matter if your transmission vendor of choice is xy or z if the transmission is already out when you are doing the tc &vb make the change then. the oem part # for the thrust washer is 52854039aa. its about a $ 6 from your dealership. chances are your transmission guy will not have this part in his inventory so if you have it with you it could save you a couple of days. while it would definitely be in my best interest to not inform everyone in such a public forum as i know my competitors do read this forum i feel it is an important enough issue to bring to the general consumers attention. http//www.dieseltrans.com/phpbb/viewtopic.phpt=473 with pictures .

From : tom lawrence

he was clearly a criminal because he was in possession of 2 handguns with the serial numbers removed. if members of the student body or faculty had been armed and trained in the proper use of firearms and when its appropriate to use one then the death toll could have been much lower. ed h. wrote yup society really is safer when law abinding citizens can carry concealed weapons and the criminals dont know who is carrying. the shooter at vt may have been a law abiding citizen until yesterday. jam .

From : azwiley1

god we ask that you be with these families come into their hearts tonight be with them let them feel your presence. we pray god that those who have fallen come unto you and your mercy be shown. in the name of our lordjesus christ. amen would that be the same god that stood by and allowed this to happen jam most people do not understand why god permits wickedness and so blame him for all the bad things that take place. they do not realize that mans inclination toward badness is not because of gods will but because of the sin of adam. see rom. 512 they may be unaware of the existence of satan the devil and of his influence on world affairs so they ascribe to god the vile things perpetrated by satan. see 1 john 519; rev. 1212 if they are to some extent aware of these things they may feel that god is slow about taking action because they do not see clearly the issue of universal sovereignty and do not grasp the fact that gods patience down till this time affords them an undeserved opportunity for salvation. see rom. 24; 2 pet. 39 also they do not fully realize that god has a set time when he will destroy forever all who practice wickedness.-see rev. 2210-12; 1118; hab. 23. if someone else committed a crime how would you feel if you were blamed for it you would consider this very unjust. justice requires that the guilty be punished and the innocent be freed from blame. if an automobile driver ignores a stop sign at a busy intersection and gets into a bad accident as a result it is not the fault of the law. if a person becomes a glutton and gets sick from overeating it is not the fault of the farmer who grew the food. then why should the heavenly father god be blamed when mankind commits wrongs should not the blame be put where it belongs-on the guilty party also there is something else to consider. if we blame god for such things as starvation from food shortages whom do we credit for the productive fields and orchards that produce such bountiful crops in many lands if we blame god for sickness whom do we credit for the bodys marvelous healing systems if we blame god for city slums whom do we credit for majestic mountains clear lakes delightful flowers and beautiful trees clearly if we blame god for the worlds troubles and then credit him for the good things of the earth it is a contradiction. a loving god would not promote both good and bad at the same time. who then is to blame for the terrible things that have happened to the human family much of the blame must rest on people themselves. human dishonesty and frustration cause crimes. human pride and selfishness cause wrecked marriages hatreds and racial prejudices. human error and unconcern cause pollution and filth. human arrogance and stupidity cause wars; and when entire nations blindly follow political leaders into those wars then they must share the blame for the suffering. hunger and poverty are primarily due to human neglect and greed. consider the world now spends well over $200 billion each year on armaments. if all of this were properly spent on growing and equally distributing food and eliminating poor housing think what could be done! no god is not to blame for the wrongs that humans themselves commit. and he is not to blame for the wrongs blessed by clergymen who claim to serve god but who do not speak the truth or practice it. well then was there something wrong with the way god made mankind did he give the human race a bad start many people think that the answer to that question is yes. if god cared they reason would not the world be a very different place we look around and see a world full of war hatred and misery. and as individuals we get sick we suffer we lose loved ones in death. thus many say if god cared about us and our problems would he not prevent such things from happening worse yet religious teachers sometimes lead people to think that god is hardhearted. how so when tragedy strikes they say that it is gods will. in effect such teachers blame god for the bad things that happen. is that the truth about god what does the bible really teach james 113 answers when under trial let no one say i am being tried by god. for with evil things god cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone. so god is never the source of the wickedness you see in the world around you. see job 3410-12 granted he does allow bad things to happen. but there is a big difference between allowing something to happen and causing it. for example think about a wise and loving father with a grown son who is still living at home with his parents. when the son becomes rebellious and decides to leave home his father does not stop him. the son pursues a bad way of life and gets into trouble. is the father the cause of his sons problems no. see luke 1511-13 similarly god has not stopped humans when they have chosen to pursue a bad course but he is not the cause of the proble

From : azwiley1

on apr 17 321 pm klumze s...@yahoo.com wrote god we ask that you be with these families come into their hearts tonight be with them let them feel your presence. we pray god that those who have fallen come unto you and your mercy be shown. in the name of our lordjesus christ. amen would that be the same god that stood by and allowed this to happen jam most people do not understand why god permits wickedness and so blame him for all the bad things that take place. they do not realize that mans inclination toward badness is not because of gods will but because of the sin of adam. see rom. 512 they may be unaware of the existence of satan the devil and of his influence on world affairs so they ascribe to god the vile things perpetrated by satan. see 1 john 519; rev. 1212 if they are to some extent aware of these things they may feel that god is slow about taking action because they do not see clearly the issue of universal sovereignty and do not grasp the fact that gods patience down till this time affords them an undeserved opportunity for salvation. see rom. 24; 2 pet. 39 also they do not fully realize that god has a set time when he will destroy forever all who practice wickedness.-see rev. 2210-12; 1118; hab. 23. if someone else committed a crime how would you feel if you were blamed for it you would consider this very unjust. justice requires that the guilty be punished and the innocent be freed from blame. if an automobile driver ignores a stop sign at a busy intersection and gets into a bad accident as a result it is not the fault of the law. if a person becomes a glutton and gets sick from overeating it is not the fault of the farmer who grew the food. then why should the heavenly father god be blamed when mankind commits wrongs should not the blame be put where it belongs-on the guilty party also there is something else to consider. if we blame god for such things as starvation from food shortages whom do we credit for the productive fields and orchards that produce such bountiful crops in many lands if we blame god for sickness whom do we credit for the bodys marvelous healing systems if we blame god for city slums whom do we credit for majestic mountains clear lakes delightful flowers and beautiful trees clearly if we blame god for the worlds troubles and then credit him for the good things of the earth it is a contradiction. a loving god would not promote both good and bad at the same time. who then is to blame for the terrible things that have happened to the human family much of the blame must rest on people themselves. human dishonesty and frustration cause crimes. human pride and selfishness cause wrecked marriages hatreds and racial prejudices. human error and unconcern cause pollution and filth. human arrogance and stupidity cause wars; and when entire nations blindly follow political leaders into those wars then they must share the blame for the suffering. hunger and poverty are primarily due to human neglect and greed. consider the world now spends well over $200 billion each year on armaments. if all of this were properly spent on growing and equally distributing food and eliminating poor housing think what could be done! no god is not to blame for the wrongs that humans themselves commit. and he is not to blame for the wrongs blessed by clergymen who claim to serve god but who do not speak the truth or practice it. well then was there something wrong with the way god made mankind did he give the human race a bad start many people think that the answer to that question is yes. if god cared they reason would not the world be a very different place we look around and see a world full of war hatred and misery. and as individuals we get sick we suffer we lose loved ones in death. thus many say if god cared about us and our problems would he not prevent such things from happening worse yet religious teachers sometimes lead people to think that god is hardhearted. how so when tragedy strikes they say that it is gods will. in effect such teachers blame god for the bad things that happen. is that the truth about god what does the bible really teach james 113 answers when under trial let no one say i am being tried by god. for with evil things god cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone. so god is never the source of the wickedness you see in the world around you. see job 3410-12 granted he does allow bad things to happen. but there is a big difference between allowing something to happen and causing it. for example think about a wise and loving father with a grown son who is still living at home with his parents. when the son becomes rebellious and decides to leave home his father does not stop him. the son pursues a bad way of life and gets into trouble. is the father the cause of his sons problems no. see luke 1511-13 similarly god has not stopped humans when they have ch

From : tom lawrence

change please keep in mind this post is not intended to slam the 48re as they have had vast improvements made to them. this is not even an expensive parts fix the most important thing here is for the consumer to make sure that the shop and the technician doing the modification has the required expertise to fix it or at least they are aware of it before they do the job so you have the opportunity to choose which way you wish to go. here is why i do not like the new design and why it is causing the damage i am seeing. basically the thrust washer is starving itself for oil. what chrysler did is they drilled 6 holes at 120 thou in the rear annulus gear. what this allows to happen is as the planetary gear rotates the oil is forced out at a faster rate because it is fed by a single hole less than 60thou. to put it simply there is not enough oil to lubricate the thrust washer that separates the rear planetary gear and the rear annulus gear. to fix this requires a skilled professional about 2 hours labor once the transmission is out and on the bench and the valve body has been removed. the way the transmission is designed now all i can say is that the approx. life is about 50 thousand miles before you are going to start seeing rear planetary rear annulus gear and rear thrust washer failure. as we have not done a 48 in our personal shop with over 20000 miles the ones we have been doing are definitely showing signs of thrust washer damage already. however my dealer base general consumers and even other vendor shops have been contacting us for assistance with this issue. i will repeat the advice that i have given them to you guys it does not matter if your transmission vendor of choice is xy or z if the transmission is already out when you are doing the tc &vb make the change then. the oem part # for the thrust washer is 52854039aa. its about a $ 6 from your dealership. chances are your transmission guy will not have this part in his inventory so if you have it with you it could save you a couple of days. while it would definitely be in my best interest to not inform everyone in such a public forum as i know my competitors do read this forum i feel it is an important enough issue to bring to the general consumers attention. http//www.dieseltrans.com/phpbb/viewtopic.phpt=473 with pictures .

From : ed h

i found this in another forum bill is an alarmist... nothing more to it. contrary to his predictions 48res did not die by the thousands. he posted that over 3 years ago - wheres the pile of blown transmissions . 222 333317 wtcvh.22758$pl.8069@read4..pas.earthlink.net to add further to this do you think we would have world peace if we gave every country a nuclear weapon lets see... when only one country had nukes over 200000 people were killed by them. since the proliferation of nuclear weapons the death total from nuclear weapon use has been.... ummm.... zero. ya cant argue with numbers .

From : ed h

do me a favor and study possible scenarios if at least 1/4 of 50 people had a gun. as soon as some of these schools wake up and start allowing their student body to protect and defend themselves god knows the school cant do it and another event like this is thwarted because of lawful concealed carry then well have something to study. until then we only have your made-up what-if scenario prejudiced by your own beliefs that guns are bad and they make people do bad things with them. really is. i am not advocating taking everyones guns away. i just think the whole thought process of advocating everyone to carry a firearm is ridiculous. i never said arm everyone. im saying allow those who have made the decision to carry to do so. not everyones comfortable with a weapon hanging off their hip. thats fine - but dont deny the right of self-protection to those who want it for themselves. also something that is never talked about is the mental affect of carrying a firearm. you mean the added responsibility and the heightened awareness yeah obviously both bad things... the deputy dawg syndrome. if the gunman lines up everyone as you say its not as i say... its what actually happened. at least this gives extra time for a trained individual to respond as well as give the gunman a chance to think twice. or better his aim.... seems in this scenario his mind was pretty-well made up. and at that point anything is preferable to what occurred. your mind control argument is over reaching dont you think i never said anything about mind control. with all due respect this sounds like the black helicopter conspiracy theorists that are in militias. you said find a way to keep people from popping a circuit. how exactly would do you do that for the record i dont believe in mind control i dont think there are black helicopters hovering over my house and i dont think tin foil make a particularly effective hat whether you like it or not science will find a way to recognize these individuals before something like this happens. yes probably through dna screening upon conception followed by selective termination of those fetuses deemed potential threats to the state.... and so will emerge a master race. gee sounds like a wonderful society... count me out. .

From : xclimation

i found this in another forum bill is an alarmist... nothing more to it. contrary to his predictions 48res did not die by the thousands. he posted that over 3 years ago - wheres the pile of blown transmissions hmmmmmm maybe the engineers aint so dumb after all ;^ mike btw i read this when it was first posted and i contacted a guy i know at the kokomo transmission plant and asked him about it. he had seen it also and he told me then not to lose any sleep over it..... so i didnt.... and i havent..... .

From : ed h

i am an atheist or more agnostic but i would say that this post was in poor taste. i dont know your religious beliefs but respect others. and respect how others grieve. the same god that stood by and allowed this to happen jam . 222 333323 l3evh.1254$qp.592@trnddc07 the same could be said for you. you werent required to read it. i am an atheist or more agnostic but i would say that this post was in poor taste. i dont know your religious beliefs but respect others. and respect how others grieve. the same god that stood by and allowed this to happen jam .

From : azwiley1

to add further to this do you think we would have world peace if we gave every country a nuclear weapon lets see... when only one country had nukes over 200000 people were killed by them. since the proliferation of nuclear weapons the death total from nuclear weapon use has been.... ummm.... zero. ya cant argue with numbers sure you can wanna see! where did i hide that k$n filter thread .

From : tom lawrence

depends on what state. anyone without a felony conviction can go buy one almost as easy as buying a beer at the local 7-11. okay - so what more do you want done other than a background check you claim its too easy - what do you think will make things safer without stepping on that pesky little annoyance that some of us like to refer to as the 2nd amendment of the us constitution its more difficult to get a drivers license than it is a gun. bad analogy. any idiot can go in and buy a car as well. to use the drivers license comparison youd need to compare it to one obtaining a carry permit - which in the vast majority of the states that issue such a permit imagine - not being allowed to operate a motor vehicle in a few states a training course and competency test is required.... gee just like is required for a drivers license. .

From : miles

tom lawrence wrote i never said arm everyone. im saying allow those who have made the decision to carry to do so. not everyones comfortable with a weapon hanging off their hip. thats fine - but dont deny the right of self-protection to those who want it for themselves. raise the number of guns in society for those that feel they need to protect themselves and you will have a proportional increase in the number of idiots carrying a gun. why because an idiot wants the gun for the same reason as anyone else. i havent read any stats that prove that gun owners are less likely to be a victim of a gun crime. that said i dont have any desire to take guns away. i just dont want to make it easier to obtain one. it shouldnt be so easy. .

From : bill dunkenfield

klumze wrote god we ask that you be with these families come into their hearts tonight be with them let them feel your presence. we pray god that those who have fallen come unto you and your mercy be shown. in the name of our lordjesus christ. amen would that be the same god that stood by and allowed this to happen jam most people do not understand why god permits wickedness and so blame him for all the bad things that take place. they do not realize that mans inclination toward badness is not because of gods will but because of the sin of adam. see rom. 512 they may be unaware of the existence of satan the devil and of his influence on world affairs so they ascribe to god the vile things perpetrated by satan. see 1 john 519; rev. 1212 if they are to some extent aware of these things they may feel that god is slow about taking action because they do not see clearly the issue of universal sovereignty and do not grasp the fact that gods patience down till this time affords them an undeserved opportunity for salvation. see rom. 24; 2 pet. 39 also they do not fully realize that god has a set time when he will destroy forever all who practice wickedness.-see rev. 2210-12; 1118; hab. 23. if someone else committed a crime how would you feel if you were blamed for it you would consider this very unjust. justice requires that the guilty be punished and the innocent be freed from blame. if an automobile driver ignores a stop sign at a busy intersection and gets into a bad accident as a result it is not the fault of the law. if a person becomes a glutton and gets sick from overeating it is not the fault of the farmer who grew the food. then why should the heavenly father god be blamed when mankind commits wrongs should not the blame be put where it belongs-on the guilty party also there is something else to consider. if we blame god for such things as starvation from food shortages whom do we credit for the productive fields and orchards that produce such bountiful crops in many lands if we blame god for sickness whom do we credit for the bodys marvelous healing systems if we blame god for city slums whom do we credit for majestic mountains clear lakes delightful flowers and beautiful trees clearly if we blame god for the worlds troubles and then credit him for the good things of the earth it is a contradiction. a loving god would not promote both good and bad at the same time. who then is to blame for the terrible things that have happened to the human family much of the blame must rest on people themselves. human dishonesty and frustration cause crimes. human pride and selfishness cause wrecked marriages hatreds and racial prejudices. human error and unconcern cause pollution and filth. human arrogance and stupidity cause wars; and when entire nations blindly follow political leaders into those wars then they must share the blame for the suffering. hunger and poverty are primarily due to human neglect and greed. consider the world now spends well over $200 billion each year on armaments. if all of this were properly spent on growing and equally distributing food and eliminating poor housing think what could be done! no god is not to blame for the wrongs that humans themselves commit. and he is not to blame for the wrongs blessed by clergymen who claim to serve god but who do not speak the truth or practice it. well then was there something wrong with the way god made mankind did he give the human race a bad start many people think that the answer to that question is yes. if god cared they reason would not the world be a very different place we look around and see a world full of war hatred and misery. and as individuals we get sick we suffer we lose loved ones in death. thus many say if god cared about us and our problems would he not prevent such things from happening worse yet religious teachers sometimes lead people to think that god is hardhearted. how so when tragedy strikes they say that it is gods will. in effect such teachers blame god for the bad things that happen. is that the truth about god what does the bible really teach james 113 answers when under trial let no one say i am being tried by god. for with evil things god cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone. so god is never the source of the wickedness you see in the world around you. see job 3410-12 granted he does allow bad things to happen. but there is a big difference between allowing something to happen and causing it. for example think about a wise and loving father with a grown son who is still living at home with his parents. when the son becomes rebellious and decides to leave home his father does not stop him. the son pursues a bad way of life and gets into trouble. is the father the cause of his sons problems no. see luke 1511-13 similarly god has not stopped humans when they have chosen to pursue a bad course but he is not the caus

From : bill dunkenfield

xclimation wrote i am an atheist or more agnostic but i would say that this post was in poor taste. i dont know your religious beliefs but respect others. and respect how others grieve. the same god that stood by and allowed this to happen jam they do not respect my non belief in baseless superstitions. jam .

From : steve b

bill dunkenfield billdunkenfield@nospam.net wrote i dont blame god for anything he doesnt exist. jam maybe not in the small spaces of your mind. steve .

From : tom lawrence

that said i dont have any desire to take guns away. i just dont want to make it easier to obtain one. it shouldnt be so easy. okay - what about it is too easy for you .

From : beekeep

on tue 17 apr 2007 120530 -0500 xclimation privacy@privacy.com wrote to add further to this do you think we would have world peace if we gave every country a nuclear weapon its kept us from going into pakastan and gettin bin laden. beekeep .

From : ed h

i havent read any stats that prove that gun owners are less likely to be a victim of a gun crime. gun owners may be just as likely to be the intended victim of a crime but according to the us dept. of justice bureau of justice statistics each year about 2 million crimes are prevented by an armed citizen. thats about 5 times more often than when guns are used in the commission of a crime. of course those numbers only reflect what is reported to law enforcement. .

From : miles

tom lawrence wrote that said i dont have any desire to take guns away. i just dont want to make it easier to obtain one. it shouldnt be so easy. okay - what about it is too easy for you depends on what state. anyone without a felony conviction can go buy one almost as easy as buying a beer at the local 7-11. sales at gun shows may need to be looked into to see what can be done. i really dont know what the best solution is but currently its too easy for any idiot to easily and quickly obtain a gun. its more difficult to get a drivers license than it is a gun. .

From : beryl

ed h. wrote do me a favor and study possible scenarios if at least 1/4 of 50 people had a gun. first off a percentage will panic and unload anywhere. another percentage will unload on anything that moves. what do you base that on snip i dont think your scenario has much basis in fact. why dont we base the scenario on what gun-totin azpunkinhead just wrote in the other gun thread youre damn right if someone breaks into my house i am going to shoot them!! why the fuck would you feel other wise youre right it is not up to me to prove he was armed and that my life or that of my family was in danger. it is up to the state pros to prove that my life and/or that of my families wasnt. let see a thug breaks a window or door to get into my house weapon in hand. i am in bed pistol very near by with in arms reach from laying in bed and loaded as it always is you honestly think that i can not reach my pistol and be at ready to protect me and my family you honestly think that i would not be awoken by noises and such around my house that are out of the norm damn man are you that dense btw unlike a gun toting thug i am tried to engage a target and shoot for a kill. i am trained to do so under pressure under extreme circumstances and do it calmly and effectively. a feening dope head and/or your common thug most likely will not be able to do the same so who do you think will come out alive if it came to it punkin is exactly the sort who will bolt out of bed firing at that shadowy thug then turn on the light and discover that hes just shot his own kid. ive read it before. -- in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni .

From : azwiley1

big snip how about you come break into my house you trolling piece of shit you would be well worth a .357 being spent. you know how about you stay the fuck out of my dealings asshole. .

From : bill dunkenfield

so this means no more huffing of diesel exhausts for the whippet thing .

From : bob m

azwiley1 wrote on apr 17 415 pm klumze s...@yahoo.com wrote on apr 17 321 pm klumze s...@yahoo.com wrote god we ask that you be with these families come into their hearts tonight be with them let them feel your presence. we pray god that those who have fallen come unto you and your mercy be shown. in the name of our lordjesus christ. amen would that be the same god that stood by and allowed this to happen jam religious sermon deleted so in a way that will end evil forever!-see psalm 379-11. klumze thanks budd!!! sorry im not bud- hide quoted text - - show quoted text - wow from that biblical novel one sure would have thought other wise. honest mistake. hey i thought it was budd too. youre not alone. bob .

From : craig c

on apr 18 1238 am beryl terra...@coolmail.com wrote punkin is exactly the sort who will bolt out of bed firing at that shadowy thug then turn on the light and discover that hes just shot his own kid. ive read it before. prove to me that even 1% of the lives lost have been due to the mistaken shooting of a family member rather than an unwanted intruders. i want stats genius not your over-inflated banter. craig c. .

From : azwiley1

on apr 18 1126 am craig c. mcraig...@gmail.com wrote on apr 18 1238 am beryl terra...@coolmail.com wrote punkin is exactly the sort who will bolt out of bed firing at that shadowy thug then turn on the light and discover that hes just shot his own kid. ive read it before. yeah 16 years in the army and all my years hunting and shooting taught me to just fire blindly at noise. first off stupid my kid has a key and would not be breaking into the house. secondly he also has a phone and would call vice breaking in regardless of time. see jack off my kid has common sense and manners to bad we cant say the same for you. craig i would not waste too much time with this troll. he is only here to strit shit up and cause trouble. he has been following me because of the spankings sno* had been getting and was offended that some one would dare pick on his idol and lover. .

From : Annonymous

on 18 apr 2007 115658 -0700 azwiley1 azwiley1@cox.net wrote on apr 18 1126 am craig c. mcraig...@gmail.com wrote on apr 18 1238 am beryl terra...@coolmail.com wrote punkin is exactly the sort who will bolt out of bed firing at that shadowy thug then turn on the light and discover that hes just shot his own kid. ive read it before. yeah 16 years in the army and all my years hunting and shooting taught me to just fire blindly at noise. first off stupid my kid has a key and would not be breaking into the house. secondly he also has a phone and would call vice breaking in regardless of time. see jack off my kid has common sense and manners to bad we cant say the same for you. craig i would not waste too much time with this troll. he is only here to strit shit up and cause trouble. he has been following me because of the spankings sno* had been getting and was offended that some one would dare pick on his idol and lover. id have to second larrys comment. beryl is just trying to rile larry up. he just doesnt have the sense to do it very well. i dont think that beryl would know a gun from his ass. now if he could kill you with a prissy comment.......well then you would be right to be worried. .

From : steve b

azwiley1 azwiley1@cox.net wrote now ill sit here and wait for you to admit that you stepped on it. no i believe you made my point much more eloquently than i ever could have. your knowledge of ballistics safety and anger management speak volumes about yourself. are you the next headline nut case in waiting ill bet you got your ass kicked a lot as a kid didnt you is that still happening a lot i dont wonder why. steve .

From : ed h

ive towed a loaded car trailer in od with no problem. by your logic my trans should puke..... three months ago. -- max join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about. there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author on 17 apr 2007 185929 -0700 marsh monster wrote snip the original failure was while towing. it at first started not shifting into overdrive. i pulled off the road shit it down and restarted. it shifted into overdrive until it had to shift down again then whould not go back up. little while later not shift into 3rd then 2nd till i just had to pull off he road. after that stop it would not go again. now here it sits in my driveway where it will creep back and forth for a short time before it will not move again. it just feels like there is not enough hydraulic pressure to move the vehicle. snip were you towing loads without locking out the overdrive if so you killed your tranny without having to. there is a reason that your truck has a lockout for overdrive and clear instructions on when to use it. michael .

From : steve b

steve b wrote steve b wrote on sat 14 apr 2007 132644 gmt bill dunkenfield billdunkenfield@nospam.net wrote theguy@whatever.net wrote racial intolerance is at the core of the problem. maybe your mind is at the core of the problem. or your lack of a fucking mind. anyone that continues to endorse it promote it and make hateful racial comments must be put in their place. that place is on the fringes of a decent and honorable society. i am simply amazed at that trash of bullshit that you just spewed out your ass. thank you! you have done more than i could ever do to expose your ignorance. how is life out on the fringes actually not too bad. thank you for asking jam. jam i like living on the fringe. i much prefer small towns and rural america to the big cities. on the fringe you can give out ass whoopings when they are needed. when someone gets uppity or out of hand a .44 mag to the engine block usually slows them down for a while. or just a lit cigarette through an open car window. people on the fringe have a way of dealing with problems that take city people a lot longer to handle. steve i was not referring to small towns and rural america. i was referring to the dark and evil side of our world where racial religious and political intolerance live. jam well then you got your head up your ass pollyanna. wake up and smell the coffee. we have racial religious and political intolerance because normal people rebel against having pc shoved down their throats. dark and evil side boy are you a dreamer. its just human nature. worker bees not liking the slugs. steve exactly the baser side of human nature. jam baser 1. morally low; without estimable personal qualities; dishonorable; meanspirited; selfish; cowardly. 2. of little or no value; worthless 3. characteristic of or befitting an inferior person or thing. 4. of illegitimate birth. .

From : steve b

big snip how about you come break into my house you trolling piece of shit you would be well worth a .357 being spent. you know how about you stay the fuck out of my dealings asshole. if a .357 magnum would be your choice of weapons then i think you are a clueless short dicked egghead. clueless short dicked eggheads prefer large caliber pistols and lift kits on their trucks. you could kill someone a mile away with one of those rounds. they will definitely go through several layers of home construction. there is nothing like a shotgun for home defense. and a pump at that. very reliable. dont have to be very accurate. just cocking it in the dark is enough to make a grown man wet themselves. the projectiles dont travel nearly as far as a regular bullet. but you knew that right mr. gun expert firing a .357 magnum wildly with other people in the house in unknown locations. well at least the chances are very good that you will kill someone. and dont forget to get the extra capacity clip for the revolver. i have the five shot s&w stainless model with 2 barrel as a carry weapon. if you find the big clips please let me know where so i can buy one. and where can i get a really big holster for that combo steve ......... ;- .

From : steve b

ed h. edo.hart@verizon.net wrote ok throuw out real world numbers and substitute a hypothetical response to a hypothetical situation in order to support your prejusticed position. shees thats real smart. are you in congress statistics can be found to support nearly any conclusion. of course the real world does it backwards and uses statistics and facts to reach a conclusion. but were not dealing with that type of people here. well i mean there are only a few that are very far off plumb and everyone knows who they are. although the people themselves dont have a clue. steve .

From : azwiley1

to pull off he road. after that stop it would not go again. now here it sits in my driveway where it will creep back and forth for a short time before it will not move again. it just feels like there is not enough hydraulic pressure to move the vehicle. snip were you towing loads without locking out the overdrive if so you killed your tranny without having to. there is a reason that your truck has a lockout for overdrive and clear instructions on when to use it. michael . 222 333393 kwzvh.190241$p17.62061@fe11.phx big snip how about you come break into my house you trolling piece of shit you would be well worth a .357 being spent. you know how about you stay the fuck out of my dealings asshole. if a .357 magnum would be your choice of weapons then i think you are a clueless short dicked egghead. clueless short dicked eggheads prefer large caliber pistols and lift kits on their trucks. you could kill someone a mile away with one of those rounds. they will definitely go through several layers of home construction. gee thats funny! no where did i ever mention use or imply the word magnum all i said was .357. i gather you have never heard of a .357 sig have you clueless one vastly different the a .357 magnum. educate yourself with this link about them maybe you will learn something http//www.sigarms.com/products/showcatalogproductdetails.aspxcategoryid=8&productid=63 so you waste of fucking o2 assclown before you jump into comversations you are totally clueless and ignorant about maybe you might read other posts ask a question or simply shut the fuck up. there is nothing like a shotgun for home defense. and a pump at that. very reliable. dont have to be very accurate. just cocking it in the dark is enough to make a grown man wet themselves. the projectiles dont travel nearly as far as a regular bullet. but you knew that right mr. gun expert again read other posts by poeple before stick your dick in your mouth any further. i stated in plain text some where else in this very thread iirc that i have a shot gun i even gave the make and model. learn to read or stfu and get back on your knees with berly. now ill sit here and wait for you to admit that you stepped on it. .

From : Annonymous

on wed 18 apr 2007 173802 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote big snip how about you come break into my house you trolling piece of shit you would be well worth a .357 being spent. you know how about you stay the fuck out of my dealings asshole. if a .357 magnum would be your choice of weapons then i think you are a clueless short dicked egghead. clueless short dicked eggheads prefer large caliber pistols and lift kits on their trucks. you could kill someone a mile away with one of those rounds. they will definitely go through several layers of home construction. there is nothing like a shotgun for home defense. and a pump at that. very reliable. dont have to be very accurate. just cocking it in the dark is enough to make a grown man wet themselves. the projectiles dont travel nearly as far as a regular bullet. but you knew that right mr. gun expert firing a .357 magnum wildly with other people in the house in unknown locations. well at least the chances are very good that you will kill someone. and dont forget to get the extra capacity clip for the revolver. i have the five shot s&w stainless model with 2 barrel as a carry weapon. if you find the big clips please let me know where so i can buy one. and where can i get a really big holster for that combo steve ......... ;- steve dont mean this personally but if you wanna go off and sound like a big tough guy at least chose a subject that you have some clue about what the fuck you are talking about. just saying man. .

From : steve b

something when they honestly have no damn clue what they are talking about and make statements loaded with personal insults and attacks. are you the next headline nut case in waiting come to my home with beryl and find out. .

From : steve b

steve you are truly the horses ass and an idiot ive know one or the other before but never both. why thank you ed. i believe thats one of the nicest things anyone has ever said about me. steve .

From : steve b

azwiley1 azwiley1@cox.net wrote you got it right you dont have a clue. maybe. but i do know the difference between a hand gun and a hang gun. steve .

From : steve b

youre not much a commedian son. you need to work more on your jokes and less on your insults if you want to be funny son. sorry to hear about your humor impairedness and do hope it improves. steve .

From : ed h

big snip how about you come break into my house you trolling piece of shit you would be well worth a .357 being spent. you know how about you stay the fuck out of my dealings asshole. if a .357 magnum would be your choice of weapons then i think you are a clueless short dicked egghead. clueless short dicked eggheads prefer large caliber pistols and lift kits on their trucks. you could kill someone a mile away with one of those rounds. they will definitely go through several layers of home construction. what i like about a .357 magnum hand gun is you can load it with .38 special ammo as well. if the first 2 round of .38 special dont scare the intruder away i know my life is in greater peril and i also have a better hold on the grip and a better control of my sight picture as well as situational awareness and the remaining 4 rounds of .357 magnum will be more effective. there is nothing like a shotgun for home defense. and a pump at that. very reliable. dont have to be very accurate. just cocking it in the dark is enough to make a grown man wet themselves. the projectiles dont travel nearly as far as a regular bullet. but you knew that right mr. gun expert firing a .357 magnum wildly with other people in the house in unknown locations. well at least the chances are very good that you will kill someone. and dont forget to get the extra capacity clip for the revolver. i have the five shot s&w stainless model with 2 barrel as a carry weapon. if you find the big clips please let me know where so i can buy one. and where can i get a really big holster for that combo if by clip you are refering to the devices that allow sa rounds to be used in revolvers then the following statement doesnt apply. but i think you dont know what you are talking about. my father taught me a clip was used to reload a magazine a magazine is used in a semi-automatic of fully-automatic firearms and persons firing a revolver may benefit from a speed loader but i never heard of a clip for a revolver. steve ......... ;- .

From : steve b

on wed 18 apr 2007 173802 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote big snip how about you come break into my house you trolling piece of shit you would be well worth a .357 being spent. you know how about you stay the fuck out of my dealings asshole. if a .357 magnum would be your choice of weapons then i think you are a clueless short dicked egghead. clueless short dicked eggheads prefer large caliber pistols and lift kits on their trucks. you could kill someone a mile away with one of those rounds. they will definitely go through several layers of home construction. there is nothing like a shotgun for home defense. and a pump at that. very reliable. dont have to be very accurate. just cocking it in the dark is enough to make a grown man wet themselves. the projectiles dont travel nearly as far as a regular bullet. but you knew that right mr. gun expert firing a .357 magnum wildly with other people in the house in unknown locations. well at least the chances are very good that you will kill someone. and dont forget to get the extra capacity clip for the revolver. i have the five shot s&w stainless model with 2 barrel as a carry weapon. if you find the big clips please let me know where so i can buy one. and where can i get a really big holster for that combo steve ......... ;- steve dont mean this personally but if you wanna go off and sound like a big tough guy at least chose a subject that you have some clue about what the fuck you are talking about. just saying man. and youre talking about what in particular please notice the smiley face at the end. anyone who would consider a .357 pistol as a home defense weapon obviously doesnt know a lot about ballistics. hint the part about the clip for the revolver and the part about the holster for said combination was a joke son. steve .

From : azwiley1

azwiley1 azwiley1@cox.net wrote now ill sit here and wait for you to admit that you stepped on it. no i believe you made my point much more eloquently than i ever could have. hmm care to explain how it is that i made any point for you other then maybe pointing out that you are a retard i made a statement about .357 i did not specify magnum or otherwise as the people in here that know me which i have discussed firearms with would know what i meant. you though blindly jump to an incorrect conclusion about something with out know all the facts why youre ingnorant youre a retard you wanted to start shit for no reason who knows who cares. your knowledge of ballistics safety and anger management speak volumes about yourself. i do not have a degree nor as much knowledge in ballistics as some in here but i would wage a bet that i do know more then you. hell i went so far as to post a link to you for you education that took you to the exact hand gun i own. it comes in three calibers 9mm 40 s&w and geee .357 sig. i also do not have an anger management issue what i do have an issue with is assholes who want to interject themselves into conversations about something specifically taking the time to t

From : azwiley1

ed h. edo.hart@verizon.net wrote if by clip you are refering to the devices that allow sa rounds to be used in revolvers then the following statement doesnt apply. but i think you dont know what you are talking about. my father taught me a clip was used to reload a magazine a magazine is used in a semi-automatic of fully-automatic firearms and persons firing a revolver may benefit from a speed loader but i never heard of a clip for a revolver. steve ......... ;- note the smiley face. the ;- thing at the end. this indicates wink wink. i was just joshin the poster that perhaps he needed a lot more firepower and might consider a clip although with his lack of ballistics knowledge i doubt he would have caught the clip on a revolver comment. i agree with your statements about reloaders for revolvers. clips for revolvers are called speedloaders. they hold varying amounts of shells as various revolvers hold various numbers of shells as any real shooter knows and can facilitate the fast loading of a revolver during firefights and during competitive shooting matches. you are correct. there are no clips made for revolvers. i just wanted to see if mr. .357 macho knew that. i dont have any clue as to why he pulled the .357 caliber out of thin air didnt specify magnum didnt specify a .357 sig which would have been the technically correct thing for a real gun handler to state and why he didnt just claim to own the holy grail of the large caliber for the short dicked the .454 casull. if you go to a gun shop and ask for a box of .357 caliber shells they will follow up with a question of what type as the ..357 is not a generic shell such as a .38 caliber. steve .

From : azwiley1

hmmm.. red chinese encoding. i smell trouble http//support.forumgogo.com more powerful than the phpbb this is a great site that is completely free and can make some cool forums heres an example of one you can make your own topic polls and replies etc and you can have an accout for every member. this next link is an example of a forum made from invisionfree. http//support.forumgogo.com .

From : steve b

note the smiley face. the ;- thing at the end. this indicates wink wink. i was just joshin the poster that perhaps he needed a lot more firepower and might consider a clip although with his lack of ballistics knowledge i doubt he would have caught the clip on a revolver comment. really just joshin me you called me and i quote clueless short dicked egghead because you made a errant assumption about something. you read something that was not there to read and in turn started with the personal attacks and insults. it really would have been difficult for you to either ask if i was refering to a magnum to have eduacted your self on the fact that there are other .357 calibers out there or to have kept your mouth shut. i guess it would have as you assumed i was refering to a revolver and to a .357 magnum. sorry smiley face or other wise why should i have thought or cared that you were just joshin the poster i agree with your statements about reloaders for revolvers. clips for revolvers are called speedloaders. they hold varying amounts of shells as various revolvers hold various numbers of shells as any real shooter knows and can facilitate the fast loading of a revolver during firefights and during competitive shooting matches. you are correct. there are no clips made for revolvers. i just wanted to see if mr. .357 macho knew that. who cares honestly. explain to me mr. im just joshin the poster why you assumed that i was refering to a revolver and .357 magmun. appearantly you dont know very much about fire arms if you honestly thought that was the only combination for that type of round. i dont have any clue as to why he pulled the .357 caliber out of thin air didnt specify magnum didnt specify a .357 sig which would have been the technically correct thing for a real gun handler to state and why he didnt just claim to own the holy grail of the large caliber for the short dicked the .454 casull. if you go to a gun shop and ask for a box of .357 caliber shells they will follow up with a question of what type as the .357 is not a generic shell such as a .38 caliber. you got it right you dont have a clue. .

From : Annonymous

on wed 18 apr 2007 202129 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote steve you are truly the horses ass and an idiot ive know one or the other before but never both. why thank you ed. i believe thats one of the nicest things anyone has ever said about me. steve seeing how you conduct yourself steve i am not surprised that is one of the nicest things that anyone has ever said about you. .

From : steve b

theguy@whatever.net wrote it would be a help to you if you knew what you were talking about. i own so many guns i would have to go to my gun room and count them to accurately know. im 58 and my grandfather gave me a .22 rifle when i was 8. ive been shooting since then. so prove me wrong. show me a .357 shell. a generic one. not a magnum not a sig not anything but a .357 caliber shell. steve .

From : Annonymous

on thu 19 apr 2007 185534 gmt theguy@whatever.net wrote on thu 19 apr 2007 183558 gmt tom lawrence tnloaswpraemnmcien5g@earthlink.net wrote accurately know. im 58 and my grandfather gave me a .22 rifle when i was 8. ive been shooting since then. really thats a pretty generic-sounding cartridge there steve. .22 huh well what is it .22lr .22magnum .22-250 lol. steve stop and think for a minute. you just got caught in your own stupidity. most people that have guns would know what you meant by .22 rifle just as most people would know that 357 refers to the well known model the .357 magnum. you played a stupid little game because you were pissed at larry but you just ended up making yourself look stupid. the 357 magnum is usually referred to as the 357. it is pretty much the standard in that caliber. now they do have the 357 sig intended to be a 357 magnum light for the auto loader and the 357 remington max or 357 max remington intended as a hunting round i think. there could even be others out there but the magnum is the stable and we all knew that was what larry was referring to. why dont you relax and stop blowing o-rings over little things. .

From : azwiley1

azwiley1 wrote miles and everyone else that doesnt get it short of doing like t.l said and banning all forms of fire arms there is absofuckinglutly nothing that is going to stop gun related crimes. not sure why you directed that at me. i agree with that for the most part. i do think some crimes can be cut down to an extent. maybe better criteria for background checks such as flagging someone who has been declared mentally ill and dangerous .

From : miles

bill dunkenfield wrote yes i remember the speech by gwb that claimed we would not make a distinction between the terrorist and those who harbor them.* *except for nations that can defend themselves. we have no evidence that the pakistan gov. is harboring and aiding bin ladin. nice try with typical leftist hatred that does nothing towards presenting a solution. do the democrats have any plan for anything at all or is it all about what they dont like .

From : ed h

azwiley1 azwiley1@cox.net wrote i made a statement about .357 i did not specify magnum or otherwise as the people in here that know me which i have discussed firearms with would know what i meant. never assume. damn thats scary. you claim to own a handgun yet dont know or cant state its exact caliber. do a search in google steve roy theguy tbone miles and i have had numerous conversations about hang guns where i stated numerous times what i own. sorry you are too stupid to understand that the regulars in here knew what i was refering too and that you needed very specific crayon drawn details. i know exactly what i own i even posted you a link for it. read it yet doubtful. you though blindly jump to an incorrect conclusion about something with out know all the facts why youre ingnorant youre a retard you wanted to start shit for no reason who knows who cares. is english your second language it must be difficult for you not being able to write sentences spell correctly and to communicate clearly. are you sure you went through the proper channels to buy and register your firearms are you sure you are done sucking beryls dick your knowledge of ballistics safety and anger management speak volumes about yourself. hell i went so far as to post a link to you for you education that took you to the exact hand gun i own. and still failed to describe the shell correctly. did the big words confuse you how in the world did you get it right on the paperwork you did do paperwork on it didnt you didnt you really care to point out how and where i described it incorrectly . 222 333411 5zavh.1365$da6.44@trnddc02 statistics can be found to support nearly any conclusion. of course the real world does it backwards and uses statistics and facts to reach a conclusion. but were not dealing with that type of people here. well i mean there are only a few that are very far off plumb and everyone knows who they are. although the people themselves dont have a clue. steve im not sure what you are trying to say here. if by very far of plumb you mean the maniac who shot 32 innocent victims 2 years prior to this slaughter was found to be mentally ill and a potential danger to himself yet nobody did anything about it and those who were in close contact stopped going to the same classes he was in because they were afraid of him then i agree with you. however there were 32 innocent victims of this very for off plumb person who had no means to protect themselves and payed the ultimate fate and probably didnt know he was very far off plumb. there have been several cases in which the courts have found that the police are not required to protect any individual rather they are responsible for the protection of society at large. you may reject any statistics you want but i notice you fail to post anything in support of your argument except silly baseless rhetoric. one must use logic to reach policy decisions. anecdotes do not scale beyond the indivual story. i fear the criminal in possesion of a gun. i dont fear the law abiding gun owner why do you .

From : ed h

youre not much a commedian son. you need to work more on your jokes and less on your insults if you want to be funny son. on wed 18 apr 2007 173802 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote big snip how about you come break into my house you trolling piece of shit you would be well worth a .357 being spent. you know how about you stay the fuck out of my dealings asshole. if a .357 magnum would be your choice of weapons then i think you are a clueless short dicked egghead. clueless short dicked eggheads prefer large caliber pistols and lift kits on their trucks. you could kill someone a mile away with one of those rounds. they will definitely go through several layers of home construction. there is nothing like a shotgun for home defense. and a pump at that. very reliable. dont have to be very accurate. just cocking it in the dark is enough to make a grown man wet themselves. the projectiles dont travel nearly as far as a regular bullet. but you knew that right mr. gun expert firing a .357 magnum wildly with other people in the house in unknown locations. well at least the chances are very good that you will kill someone. and dont forget to get the extra capacity clip for the revolver. i have the five shot s&w stainless model with 2 barrel as a carry weapon. if you find the big clips please let me know where so i can buy one. and where can i get a really big holster for that combo steve ......... ;- steve dont mean this personally but if you wanna go off and sound like a big tough guy at least chose a subject that you have some clue about what the fuck you are talking about. just saying man. and youre talking about what in particular please notice the smiley face at the end. anyone who would consider a .357 pistol as a home defense weapon obviously doesnt know a lot about ballistics. hint the part about the clip for the revolver and the part about the holster for said combination was a joke son. steve .

From : ed h

steve you are truly the horses ass and an idiot ive know one or the other before but never both. ed h. edo.hart@verizon.net wrote if by clip you are refering to the devices that allow sa rounds to be used in revolvers then the following statement doesnt apply. but i think you dont know what you are talking about. my father taught me a clip was used to reload a magazine a magazine is used in a semi-automatic of fully-automatic firearms and persons firing a revolver may benefit from a speed loader but i never heard of a clip for a revolver. steve ......... ;- note the smiley face. the ;- thing at the end. this indicates wink wink. i was just joshin the poster that perhaps he needed a lot more firepower and might consider a clip although with his lack of ballistics knowledge i doubt he would have caught the clip on a revolver comment. i agree with your statements about reloaders for revolvers. clips for revolvers are called speedloaders. they hold varying amounts of shells as various revolvers hold various numbers of shells as any real shooter knows and can facilitate the fast loading of a revolver during firefights and during competitive shooting matches. you are correct. there are no clips made for revolvers. i just wanted to see if mr. .357 macho knew that. i dont have any clue as to why he pulled the .357 caliber out of thin air didnt specify magnum didnt specify a .357 sig which would have been the technically correct thing for a real gun handler to state and why he didnt just claim to own the holy grail of the large caliber for the short dicked the .454 casull. if you go to a gun shop and ask for a box of .357 caliber shells they will follow up with a question of what type as the .357 is not a generic shell such as a .38 caliber. steve .

From : steve b

statistics can be found to support nearly any conclusion. of course the real world does it backwards and uses statistics and facts to reach a conclusion. but were not dealing with that type of people here. well i mean there are only a few that are very far off plumb and everyone knows who they are. although the people themselves dont have a clue. steve im not sure what you are trying to say here. if by very far of plumb you mean the maniac who shot 32 innocent victims 2 years prior to this slaughter was found to be mentally ill and a potential danger to himself yet nobody did anything about it and those who were in close contact stopped going to the same classes he was in because they were afraid of him then i agree with you. however there were 32 innocent victims of this very for off plumb person who had no means to protect themselves and payed the ultimate fate and probably didnt know he was very far off plumb. there have been several cases in which the courts have found that the police are not required to protect any individual rather they are responsible for the protection of society at large. you may reject any statistics you want but i notice you fail to post anything in support of your argument except silly baseless rhetoric. one must use logic to reach policy decisions. anecdotes do not scale beyond the indivual story. i fear the criminal in possesion of a gun. i dont fear the law abiding gun owner why do you we have crossed wires somewhere. we agree. my statements about statistics and conclusions were meant to say that some people just have their minds made up in a very biased skewed way then go about finding statistics that support that invalid position. theyre mind is made up dont confuse them with facts. its done in government and politics all the time. normal people examine the facts and statistics then reach a conclusion by the weight and content of the statistics and evidence they observe. i wanted to point out that there are some people here who do just that. they have a thoroughly cemented preconceived position and can and do find information to support themselves rather than hearing anything new. i have been a victim and had a family member who was a victim of people who were a little off plumb. the police were contacted and the best we could get out of them was if they do kill someone they will be in a lot of trouble. the two parties were killed about a month later during a home invasion. they broke into a mans house. the man intercepted the intruders and the daughter ran into a closet. the two intruders beat the man then threw him in the closet not knowing the daughter was in there. she untied him. he then killed both of them with a handgun. i have no fear of armed citizens and wish the whole us was as lenient as vermont where any citizen can carry as long as they do so with no criminal intent. by reciprocity at last tally i am licensed to carry a concealed firearm in 39 states being mainly licensed in nevada utah and florida. i firmly believe in the idea of more guns less crime authored by john lott. there have been many caps intentional situations in my city of 1.5 million where innocent lives could have been saved by citizens carrying guns. i do not know if it would have made a difference in this last situation but i do have to believe that any resistance would have been better than what happened there. and all the water tears and debate in the world will not wash away the blood of these victims from the liberal anti-gunners who think all we need to do to solve these situations are to ban guns and love people more. or throw more tax dollars at the whole mess. why do people do these things because they know they will meet with no resistance because liberalism has neutered the american public. steve .

From : steve b

azwiley1 azwiley1@cox.net wrote do a search in google steve roy theguy tbone miles and i have had numerous conversations about hang guns where i stated numerous times what i own. sorry you are too stupid to understand that the regulars in here knew what i was refering too and that you needed very specific crayon drawn details. hang gun whats a hang gun i understand crayon but dont understand that term. how are those english classes coming do you now see how utterly foolish you can be by trying to converse and not being able to spell and use proper grammar and you say im too stupid. thats rich. your knowledge of ballistics safety and anger management speak volumes about yourself. hell i went so far as to post a link to you for you education that took you to the exact hand gun i own. and i was impressed. ooooooooo. such a gun! too bad you sent a picture of a gun instead of answering the topic of conversation. and still failed to describe the shell correctly. did the big words confuse you how in the world did you get it right on the paperwork you did do paperwork on it didnt you didnt you really care to point out how and where i described it incorrectly good god you are as dumb as you project. there is no .357 round. theres a .357 sig a .357 magnum. go into a gun store and ask for a box of .357s. after they stop laughing have them explain the difference to you. when you buy ammo for your sig remember the sig you claim to own - the one in the pretty picture how do you specifically ask for those rounds do you say i want a box of .357 sig or i want a box of .357s in case you havent noticed or dont really own a sig there is a difference in the two rounds. now get back on those english books. you either need to study more so youll graduate with your class or go back to school so you can spell correctly and learn the difference between too to and two. as in refering too and refering is misspelled too. sheesh. compound stupid. youre stupid and you dont know youre stupid. steve .

From : azwiley1

azwiley1 azwiley1@cox.net wrote do a search in google steve roy theguy tbone miles and i have had numerous conversations about hang guns where i stated numerous times what i own. sorry you are too stupid to understand that the regulars in here knew what i was refering too and that you needed very specific crayon drawn details. hang gun whats a hang gun i understand crayon but dont understand that term. how are those english classes coming do you now see how utterly foolish you can be by trying to converse and not being able to spell and use proper grammar and you say im too stupid. thats rich. oooooooooo so i miss type one letter. you obviously knew exactly what i was talking about. your knowledge of ballistics safety and anger management speak volumes about yourself. hell i went so far as to post a link to you for you education that took you to the exact hand gun i own. and i was impressed. ooooooooo. such a gun! too bad you sent a picture of a gun instead of answering the topic of conversation. i did answer the topic of conversation ironically enough you never asked a question. so please explain to me what it is that i failed to answer i did not just send you a pretty picture i dont have any of your wife having sex with some one else. i sent you a link that was to sig arms website that not only contained a photo of my fire arm but also contained the tech data you are ignorant too. and still failed to describe the shell correctly. did the big words confuse you how in the world did you get it right on the paperwork you did do paperwork on it didnt you didnt you really care to point out how and where i described it incorrectly good god you are as dumb as you project. there is no .357 round. theres a .357 sig a .357 magnum. go into a gun store and ask for a box of .357s. after they stop laughing have them explain the difference to you. im sorry but once again those that know me and who i have been conversing with for many years knew exactly what i was refering too. i did not know that i was required to spell out in the smallest of detail everything i post for the assclowns who come in to just stir shit. i do go into the local gun stores and ask for a box of .357 why because they know me and they know what i want because they are the ones that sold me the fire arm. when you buy ammo for your sig remember the sig you claim to own - the one in the pretty picture how do you specifically ask for those rounds do you say i want a box of .357 sig or i want a box of .357s in case you havent noticed or dont really own a sig there is a difference in the two rounds. i know there is a huge difference betweeen the two assclown. i never ever said otherwise hell i have made that very statement in just about every reply i have made to you. whatever you know it all just like sno* and are just plain stupid about somethings and will never admit to being wrong when you are. since you seem to believe you know more about what i own then i do be man enough to post a real email or reply to me directly and i will be happy to send you a picture of what you are ignorant to as it sit right here on my desk. if not stfu and crawl back under your rock. .

From : steve b

azwiley1 azwiley1@cox.net wrote snip just keep up with those english classes and concentrate on the spelling part. i hear the new hooked on phonics are better than the old course too. keep at it. you have nowhere to go but up. i mean its not like you could do any worse than you are doing right now is it steve .

From : azwiley1

snip let me understand this. you jumped into a conversation out of the blue with personal attacks and insults to some one you have never conversed with. you made brash assumptions about a subject to which you were not educated on and little knowledge about. you had no knowledge of the poster you attacked for no foreseen reason. you were responded to in the same manner as which you initiated things. you were provided information to disprove your assumptions that you did not read and now the absolute best you can do is come after some ones spelling and or language damn beryl you didnt need to change your screen name to prove you are a horses ass we all knew that already. bye bye troll snip .

From : azwiley1

so you really just wanted to go after larry because he pissed you off but what you wrote was as full of bull shit as you are. interestingly enough i dont even know who this guy is or how i could have pissed him off as i have never conversed with him or about him prior to this. oh wait it must be my charming personality! ;^ .

From : ed h

in light of this post i appoligize for everything i said earlier in this thread with the exception of anything that followed clueless short dicked eggheads. i still think youre a horses ass but i no longer think you are an idiot. statistics can be found to support nearly any conclusion. of course the real world does it backwards and uses statistics and facts to reach a conclusion. but were not dealing with that type of people here. well i mean there are only a few that are very far off plumb and everyone knows who they are. although the people themselves dont have a clue. steve im not sure what you are trying to say here. if by very far of plumb you mean the maniac who shot 32 innocent victims 2 years prior to this slaughter was found to be mentally ill and a potential danger to himself yet nobody did anything about it and those who were in close contact stopped going to the same classes he was in because they were afraid of him then i agree with you. however there were 32 innocent victims of this very for off plumb person who had no means to protect themselves and payed the ultimate fate and probably didnt know he was very far off plumb. there have been several cases in which the courts have found that the police are not required to protect any individual rather they are responsible for the protection of society at large. you may reject any statistics you want but i notice you fail to post anything in support of your argument except silly baseless rhetoric. one must use logic to reach policy decisions. anecdotes do not scale beyond the indivual story. i fear the criminal in possesion of a gun. i dont fear the law abiding gun owner why do you we have crossed wires somewhere. we agree. my statements about statistics and conclusions were meant to say that some people just have their minds made up in a very biased skewed way then go about finding statistics that support that invalid position. theyre mind is made up dont confuse them with facts. its done in government and politics all the time. normal people examine the facts and statistics then reach a conclusion by the weight and content of the statistics and evidence they observe. i wanted to point out that there are some people here who do just that. they have a thoroughly cemented preconceived position and can and do find information to support themselves rather than hearing anything new. i have been a victim and had a family member who was a victim of people who were a little off plumb. the police were contacted and the best we could get out of them was if they do kill someone they will be in a lot of trouble. the two parties were killed about a month later during a home invasion. they broke into a mans house. the man intercepted the intruders and the daughter ran into a closet. the two intruders beat the man then threw him in the closet not knowing the daughter was in there. she untied him. he then killed both of them with a handgun. i have no fear of armed citizens and wish the whole us was as lenient as vermont where any citizen can carry as long as they do so with no criminal intent. by reciprocity at last tally i am licensed to carry a concealed firearm in 39 states being mainly licensed in nevada utah and florida. i firmly believe in the idea of more guns less crime authored by john lott. there have been many caps intentional situations in my city of 1.5 million where innocent lives could have been saved by citizens carrying guns. i do not know if it would have made a difference in this last situation but i do have to believe that any resistance would have been better than what happened there. and all the water tears and debate in the world will not wash away the blood of these victims from the liberal anti-gunners who think all we need to do to solve these situations are to ban guns and love people more. or throw more tax dollars at the whole mess. why do people do these things because they know they will meet with no resistance because liberalism has neutered the american public. steve .

From : Annonymous

on wed 18 apr 2007 190214 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote on wed 18 apr 2007 173802 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote big snip how about you come break into my house you trolling piece of shit you would be well worth a .357 being spent. you know how about you stay the fuck out of my dealings asshole. if a .357 magnum would be your choice of weapons then i think you are a clueless short dicked egghead. clueless short dicked eggheads prefer large caliber pistols and lift kits on their trucks. you could kill someone a mile away with one of those rounds. they will definitely go through several layers of home construction. there is nothing like a shotgun for home defense. and a pump at that. very reliable. dont have to be very accurate. just cocking it in the dark is enough to make a grown man wet themselves. the projectiles dont travel nearly as far as a regular bullet. but you knew that right mr. gun expert firing a .357 magnum wildly with other people in the house in unknown locations. well at least the chances are very good that you will kill someone. and dont forget to get the extra capacity clip for the revolver. i have the five shot s&w stainless model with 2 barrel as a carry weapon. if you find the big clips please let me know where so i can buy one. and where can i get a really big holster for that combo steve ......... ;- steve dont mean this personally but if you wanna go off and sound like a big tough guy at least chose a subject that you have some clue about what the fuck you are talking about. just saying man. and youre talking about what in particular please notice the smiley face at the end. anyone who would consider a .357 pistol as a home defense weapon obviously doesnt know a lot about ballistics. hint the part about the clip for the revolver and the part about the holster for said combination was a joke son. keep your day job steve youll never make it as a comedian dad. steve .

From : Annonymous

on wed 18 apr 2007 192012 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote ed h. edo.hart@verizon.net wrote if by clip you are refering to the devices that allow sa rounds to be used in revolvers then the following statement doesnt apply. but i think you dont know what you are talking about. my father taught me a clip was used to reload a magazine a magazine is used in a semi-automatic of fully-automatic firearms and persons firing a revolver may benefit from a speed loader but i never heard of a clip for a revolver. steve ......... ;- note the smiley face. the ;- thing at the end. this indicates wink wink. no i actually think it indicates that you spend way too much time on your computer. again dad just saying. i was just joshin the poster that perhaps he needed a lot more firepower and might consider a clip although with his lack of ballistics knowledge i doubt he would have caught the clip on a revolver comment. not sure about your knowledge of ballistics. the 357 mag and the 357 sig are not bad rounds ballistically. now they are not so hot when you compare other options that are cheaper to buy easier to control and have a little better ballisitics. but any firearms person would know that both rounds are capable of doing the job. your rant about how many walls the round will go through and how far it will go is unfounded as far as ballisitics go. it isnt the gun it is the round and you can get a round to match just about any need. there are alot of self defense guns that have greater penetration than either 357 round that you talk about. so you really just wanted to go after larry because he pissed you off but what you wrote was as full of bull shit as you are. i agree with your statements about reloaders for revolvers. clips for revolvers are called speedloaders. they hold varying amounts of shells as various revolvers hold various numbers of shells as any real shooter knows and can facilitate the fast loading of a revolver during firefights and during competitive shooting matches. you are correct. there are no clips made for revolvers. i just wanted to see if mr. .357 macho knew that. i dont have any clue as to why he pulled the .357 caliber out of thin air didnt specify magnum didnt specify a .357 sig which would have been the technically correct thing for a real gun handler to state and why he didnt just claim to own the holy grail of the large caliber for the short dicked the .454 casull. if you go to a gun shop and ask for a box of .357 caliber shells they will follow up with a question of what type as the .357 is not a generic shell such as a .38 caliber. steve .

From : Annonymous

on wed 18 apr 2007 195820 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote statistics can be found to support nearly any conclusion. of course the real world does it backwards and uses statistics and facts to reach a conclusion. but were not dealing with that type of people here. well i mean there are only a few that are very far off plumb and everyone knows who they are. although the people themselves dont have a clue. steve im not sure what you are trying to say here. if by very far of plumb you mean the maniac who shot 32 innocent victims 2 years prior to this slaughter was found to be mentally ill and a potential danger to himself yet nobody did anything about it and those who were in close contact stopped going to the same classes he was in because they were afraid of him then i agree with you. however there were 32 innocent victims of this very for off plumb person who had no means to protect themselves and payed the ultimate fate and probably didnt know he was very far off plumb. there have been several cases in which the courts have found that the police are not required to protect any individual rather they are responsible for the protection of society at large. you may reject any statistics you want but i notice you fail to post anything in support of your argument except silly baseless rhetoric. one must use logic to reach policy decisions. anecdotes do not scale beyond the indivual story. i fear the criminal in possesion of a gun. i dont fear the law abiding gun owner why do you we have crossed wires somewhere. we agree. my statements about statistics and conclusions were meant to say that some people just have their minds made up in a very biased skewed way then go about finding statistics that support that invalid position. theyre mind is made up dont confuse them with facts. its done in government and politics all the time. normal people examine the facts and statistics then reach a conclusion by the weight and content of the statistics and evidence they observe. i wanted to point out that there are some people here who do just that. they have a thoroughly cemented preconceived position and can and do find information to support themselves rather than hearing anything new. i have been a victim and had a family member who was a victim of people who were a little off plumb. the police were contacted and the best we could get out of them was if they do kill someone they will be in a lot of trouble. the two parties were killed about a month later during a home invasion. they broke into a mans house. the man intercepted the intruders and the daughter ran into a closet. the two intruders beat the man then threw him in the closet not knowing the daughter was in there. she untied him. he then killed both of them with a handgun. i have no fear of armed citizens and wish the whole us was as lenient as vermont where any citizen can carry as long as they do so with no criminal intent. by reciprocity at last tally i am licensed to carry a concealed firearm in 39 states being mainly licensed in nevada utah and florida. i firmly believe in the idea of more guns less crime authored by john lott. there have been many caps intentional situations in my city of 1.5 million where innocent lives could have been saved by citizens carrying guns. i do not know if it would have made a difference in this last situation but i do have to believe that any resistance would have been better than what happened there. and all the water tears and debate in the world will not wash away the blood of these victims from the liberal anti-gunners who think all we need to do to solve these situations are to ban guns and love people more. or throw more tax dollars at the whole mess. why do people do these things because they know they will meet with no resistance because liberalism has neutered the american public. steve actually i agree with most of what you said. the last part we disagree on but for the most part i think you are right. as for why people do these things it isnt because they think they will meet no resistance. they usually dont think it through that far. and other times in fact in a substantial number of these cases they think that they will meet resistance and will die. they cant kill themsleves so they have some one else do it. the real reason that they do it is that they are crazy though. they dont think like the rest of us do. they dont use logic. they are just fucked up people. having armed citizens isnt as much a preventativve measure as it is simply a defensive one. .

From : steve b

on wed 18 apr 2007 190214 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote on wed 18 apr 2007 173802 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote big snip how about you come break into my house you trolling piece of shit you would be well worth a .357 being spent. you know how about you stay the fuck out of my dealings asshole. if a .357 magnum would be your choice of weapons then i think you are a clueless short dicked egghead. clueless short dicked eggheads prefer large caliber pistols and lift kits on their trucks. you could kill someone a mile away with one of those rounds. they will definitely go through several layers of home construction. there is nothing like a shotgun for home defense. and a pump at that. very reliable. dont have to be very accurate. just cocking it in the dark is enough to make a grown man wet themselves. the projectiles dont travel nearly as far as a regular bullet. but you knew that rig

From : steve b

on wed 18 apr 2007 192012 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote ed h. edo.hart@verizon.net wrote if by clip you are refering to the devices that allow sa rounds to be used in revolvers then the following statement doesnt apply. but i think you dont know what you are talking about. my father taught me a clip was used to reload a magazine a magazine is used in a semi-automatic of fully-automatic firearms and persons firing a revolver may benefit from a speed loader but i never heard of a clip for a revolver. steve ......... ;- note the smiley face. the ;- thing at the end. this indicates wink wink. no i actually think it indicates that you spend way too much time on your computer. again dad just saying. i was just joshin the poster that perhaps he needed a lot more firepower and might consider a clip although with his lack of ballistics knowledge i doubt he would have caught the clip on a revolver comment. not sure about your knowledge of ballistics. the 357 mag and the 357 sig are not bad rounds ballistically. now they are not so hot when you compare other options that are cheaper to buy easier to con

From : Annonymous

on thu 19 apr 2007 033456 gmt ed h. edo.hart@verizon.net wrote in light of this post i appoligize for everything i said earlier in this thread with the exception of anything that followed clueless short dicked eggheads. i still think youre a horses ass but i no longer think you are an idiot. well.......thats something for him anyway. statistics can be found to support nearly any conclusion. of course the real world does it backwards and uses statistics and facts to reach a conclusion. but were not dealing with that type of people here. well i mean there are only a few that are very far off plumb and everyone knows who they are. although the people themselves dont have a clue. steve im not sure what you are trying to say here. if by very far of plumb you mean the maniac who shot 32 innocent victims 2 years prior to this slaughter was found to be mentally ill and a potential danger to himself yet nobody did anything about it and those who were in close contact stopped going to the same classes he was in because they were afraid of him then i agree with you. however there were 32 innocent victims of this very for off plumb person who had no means to protect themselves and payed the ultimate fate and probably didnt know he was very far off plumb. there have been several cases in which the courts have found that the police are not required to protect any individual rather they are responsible for the protection of society at large. you may reject any statistics you want but i notice you fail to post anything in support of your argument except silly baseless rhetoric. one must use logic to reach policy decisions. anecdotes do not scale beyond the indivual story. i fear the criminal in possesion of a gun. i dont fear the law abiding gun owner why do you we have crossed wires somewhere. we agree. my statements about statistics and conclusions were meant to say that some people just have their minds made up in a very biased skewed way then go about finding statistics that support that invalid position. theyre mind is made up dont confuse them with facts. its done in government and politics all the time. normal people examine the facts and statistics then reach a conclusion by the weight and content of the statistics and evidence they observe. i wanted to point out that there are some people here who do just that. they have a thoroughly cemented preconceived position and can and do find information to support themselves rather than hearing anything new. i have been a victim and had a family member who was a victim of people who were a little off plumb. the police were contacted and the best we could get out of them was if they do kill someone they will be in a lot of trouble. the two parties were killed about a month later during a home invasion. they broke into a mans house. the man intercepted the intruders and the daughter ran into a closet. the two intruders beat the man then threw him in the closet not knowing the daughter was in there. she untied him. he then killed both of them with a handgun. i have no fear of armed citizens and wish the whole us was as lenient as vermont where any citizen can carry as long as they do so with no criminal intent. by reciprocity at last tally i am licensed to carry a concealed firearm in 39 states being mainly licensed in nevada utah and florida. i firmly believe in the idea of more guns less crime authored by john lott. there have been many caps intentional situations in my city of 1.5 million where innocent lives could have been saved by citizens carrying guns. i do not know if it would have made a difference in this last situation but i do have to believe that any resistance would have been better than what happened there. and all the water tears and debate in the world will not wash away the blood of these victims from the liberal anti-gunners who think all we need to do to solve these situations are to ban guns and love people more. or throw more tax dollars at the whole mess. why do people do these things because they know they will meet with no resistance because liberalism has neutered the american public. steve .

From : tom lawrence

accurately know. im 58 and my grandfather gave me a .22 rifle when i was 8. ive been shooting since then. really thats a pretty generic-sounding cartridge there steve. .22 huh well what is it .22lr .22magnum .22-250 .

From : steve b

and have a little better ballisitics. but any firearms person would know that both rounds are capable of doing the job. your rant about how many walls the round will go through and how far it will go is unfounded as far as ballisitics go. it isnt the gun it is the round and you can get a round to match just about any need. there are alot of self defense guns that have greater penetration than either 357 round that you talk about. so you really just wanted to go after larry because he pissed you off but what you wrote was as full of bull shit as you are. i agree with your statements about reloaders for revolvers. clips for revolvers are called speedloaders. they hold varying amounts of shells as various revolvers hold various numbers of shells as any real shooter knows and can facilitate the fast loading of a revolver during firefights and during competitive shooting matches. you are correct. there are no clips made for revolvers. i just wanted to see if mr. .357 macho knew that. i dont have any clue as to why he pulled the .357 caliber out of thin air didnt specify magnum didnt specify a .357 sig which would have been the technically correct thing for a real gun handler to state and why he didnt just claim to own the holy grail of the large caliber for the short dicked the .454 casull. if you go to a gun shop and ask for a box of .357 caliber shells they will follow up with a question of what type as the .357 is not a generic shell such as a .38 caliber. steve my regrets that you failed to comprehend the conversation and chose to answer in chatroomese. the point was .............. any projectile of a high muzzle velocity and energy is dangerous as a home defense round because it can go through walls very easily and has a range of a mile or more. sorry that you could not comprehend or stick to the point being discussed. point was that someone would come out blazing with a .357 type and flavor unknown and unstated and think that this big bad round would make them a big bad home defender. no matter that one who would use such a round in such a way is just a plain vanilla idiot. so im sorry that those here who did not or could not follow the point of the conversation got diverted into such diarrhetic literati minutiae. they would have had more credibility with the .454 casull argument. steve . 222 333448 yzcvh.49$%d.16@fe08.phx so you really just wanted to go after larry because he pissed you off but what you wrote was as full of bull shit as you are. interestingly enough i dont even know who this guy is or how i could have pissed him off as i have never conversed with him or about him prior to this. oh wait it must be my charming personality! ;^ no. really it was your amazing literary skills. steve .

From : steve b

you are correct. there are no clips made for revolvers. guess youve never heard of moon clips then huh that would be no. please explain as i am always interested in buying something more for my guns. - steve googled them and a friend had one for a .45 cal. revolver he had. funny but the one i saw had six .357 magnum rounds in it. wonder if they make it for the plain .357 rounds too. steve .

From : steve b

theguy@whatever.net wrote well.......thats something for him anyway. oh god my heart be still! steve .

From : tom lawrence

those who dont know me 2001 dakota 4x4 4.7l v8. is that the most likely reason is there anything else i should be looking at i dont have a spark puller so ill likely drop it off at the mechanics. i needed to take it in anyway for pm before we go on our massive quasi-4x4 odyssey across the australian outback to the coast. change the air filter and use antisieze on the plugs if you have the 4.7. thanks as always for any advice. jmc ----== posted via feeds.com - unlimited-unrestricted-secure usenet ==---- http//www.feeds.com the #1 group service in the world! 120000+ groups ----= east and west-coast server farms - total privacy via encryption =---- . 222 333455 dwdvh.2918$j63.1482@read2..pas.earthlink.net you are correct. there are no clips made for revolvers. guess youve never heard of moon clips then huh .

From : steve b

you are correct. there are no clips made for revolvers. guess youve never heard of moon clips then huh that would be no. please explain as i am always interested in buying something more for my guns. - steve .

From : steve b

i had a thought while laying in bed this evening. why dont colleges teach ancient technology courses such things as throwing sticks slings and sling shots could be taught. one frat rat with a sling shot and some 1/2 steel ball bearings could have put a hurt on that guy and a half dozen could have killed him. oh but wait. that wouldnt be pc. unless of course they taught it in conjunction with ethnic diversity or some such nonsense that would link it to some minority group. but then thats entirely possible as sling shots have been historically linked to downtrodden minority kids havent they. i think im on to something. and a wrist rocket or equivalent with ball bearings makes one nasty weapon. even one made out of a tree fork and strips of inner tubes works pretty good. steve .

From : Annonymous

on wed 18 apr 2007 221922 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote on wed 18 apr 2007 192012 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote ed h. edo.hart@verizon.net wrote if by clip you are refering to the devices that allow sa rounds to be used in revolvers then the following statement doesnt apply. but i think you dont know what you are talking about. my father taught me a clip was used to reload a magazine a magazine is used in a semi-automatic of fully-automatic firearms and persons firing a revolver may benefit from a speed loader but i never heard of a clip for a revolver. steve ......... ;- note the smiley face. the ;- thing at the end. this indicates wink wink. no i actually think it indicates that you spend way too much time on your computer. again dad just saying. i was just joshin the poster that perhaps he needed a lot more firepower and might consider a clip although with his lack of ballistics knowledge i doubt he would have caught the clip on a revolver comment. not sure about your knowledge of ballistics. the 357 mag and the 357 sig are not bad rounds ballistically. now they are not so hot when you compare other options that are cheaper to buy easier to control and have a little better ballisitics. but any firearms person would know that both rounds are capable of doing the job. your rant about how many walls the round will go through and how far it will go is unfounded as far as ballisitics go. it isnt the gun it is the round and you can get a round to match just about any need. there are alot of self defense guns that have greater penetration than either 357 round that you talk about. so you really just wanted to go after larry because he pissed you off but what you wrote was as full of bull shit as you are. i agree with your statements about reloaders for revolvers. clips for revolvers are called speedloaders. they hold varying amounts of shells as various revolvers hold various numbers of shells as any real shooter knows and can facilitate the fast loading of a revolver during firefights and during competitive shooting matches. you are correct. there are no clips made for revolvers. i just wanted to see if mr. .357 macho knew that. i dont have any clue as to why he pulled the .357 caliber out of thin air didnt specify magnum didnt specify a .357 sig which would have been the technically correct thing for a real gun handler to state and why he didnt just claim to own the holy grail of the large caliber for the short dicked the .454 casull. if you go to a gun shop and ask for a box of .357 caliber shells they will follow up with a question of what type as the .357 is not a generic shell such as a .38 caliber. steve my regrets that you failed to comprehend the conversation and chose to answer in chatroomese. the point was .............. any projectile of a high muzzle velocity and energy is dangerous as a home defense round because it can go through walls very easily and has a range of a mile or more. sorry that you could not comprehend or stick to the point being discussed. point was that someone would come out blazing with a .357 type and flavor unknown and unstated and think that this big bad round would make them a big bad home defender. no matter that one who would use such a round in such a way is just a plain vanilla idiot. so im sorry that those here who did not or could not follow the point of the conversation got diverted into such diarrhetic literati minutiae. they would have had more credibility with the .454 casull argument. steve ok steve you are right. you are sorry. as an aside the fact that you own a gun doesnt make you a ballistic expert. in fact that is the point of my other posts. before you jump on someone or try to add the stupid kind of crap like you just wrote it would be a help to you if you knew what you were talking about. .

From : Annonymous

on thu 19 apr 2007 094556 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote theguy@whatever.net wrote it would be a help to you if you knew what you were talking about. i own so many guns i would have to go to my gun room and count them to accurately know. im 58 and my grandfather gave me a .22 rifle when i was 8. ive been shooting since then. so prove me wrong. show me a .357 shell. a generic one. not a magnum not a sig not anything but a .357 caliber shell. steve steve i have never once commented on your .357 v. 357 sig v 357 magnum bull shit. my comments concerned your stupid and innane remarks regarding the ballistic properties of the 357 whatever. certainly anyone at your advanced stage of life can follow a thread as for owning so many guns.......first i doubt it. dont count the mattels air guns and b-b guns please. never the less if the number of guns that you own somehow related to your intellectual level then the us govt would be brilliant. they are not and it does not. .

From : Annonymous

on thu 19 apr 2007 031538 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote i had a thought while laying in bed this evening. why dont colleges teach ancient technology courses such things as throwing sticks slings and sling shots could be taught. one frat rat with a sling shot and some 1/2 steel ball bearings could have put a hurt on that guy and a half dozen could have killed him. oh but wait. that wouldnt be pc. unless of course they taught it in conjunction with ethnic diversity or some such nonsense that would link it to some minority group. but then thats entirely possible as sling shots have been historically linked to downtrodden minority kids havent they. i think im on to something. i just think you are on something. and a wrist rocket or equivalent with ball bearings makes one nasty weapon. even one made out of a tree fork and strips of inner tubes works pretty good. steve .

From : steve b

accurately know. im 58 and my grandfather gave me a .22 rifle when i was 8. ive been shooting since then. really thats a pretty generic-sounding cartridge there steve. .22 huh well what is it .22lr .22magnum .22-250 if you can confuse a .22 round with anything else you would not understand anything else i said. steve .

From : steve b

theguy@whatever.net wrote as for owning so many guns.......first i doubt it. no shit. i really dont know how many guns i own. so think what you will. i really dont give a shit. steve .

From : ed h

moon clips thats the name. i couldnt remember it during my earlier post. once again tom thanks. you are correct. there are no clips made for revolvers. guess youve never heard of moon clips then huh .

From : beryl

thedumbguy thedumbguy on thu 19 apr 2007 183558 gmt tom lawrence tnloaswpraemnmcien5g@earthlink.net wrote accurately know. im 58 and my grandfather gave me a .22 rifle when i was 8. ive been shooting since then. really thats a pretty generic-sounding cartridge there steve. .22 huh well what is it .22lr .22magnum .22-250 lol. steve stop and think for a minute. you just got caught in your own stupidity. nope. it was you again. you even delivered an ironic twist only 28 minutes before posting your stop and think reply you said to steve certainly anyone at your advanced stage of life can follow a thread most people that have guns would know what you meant by .22 rifle just as most people would know that 357 refers to the well known model the .357 magnum. you played a stupid little game because you were pissed at larry but you just ended up making yourself look stupid. the 357 magnum is usually referred to as the 357. it is pretty much the standard in that caliber. now they do have the 357 sig intended to be a 357 magnum light for the auto loader and the 357 remington max or 357 max remington intended as a hunting round i think. there could even be others out there but the magnum is the stable and we all knew that was what larry was referring to. idiot! steve referred to the staple not stable from the outset. from then on punkinseed has been pouting as follows no where did i ever mention use or imply the word magnum all i said was .357. i gather you have never heard of a .357 sig have you clueless one vastly different the a .357 magnum. educate yourself with this link about them maybe you will learn something http//www.sigarms.com/products/showcatalogproductdetails.aspxcategoryid=8&productid=63 i made a statement about .357 i did not specify magnum or otherwise as the people in here that know me which i have discussed firearms with would know what i meant. sorry you are too stupid to understand that the regulars in here knew what i was refering too im sorry but once again those that know me and who i have been conversing with for many years knew exactly what i was refering too. i never said .357 magnum you did. -- in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni .

From : Annonymous

on thu 19 apr 2007 142110 -0700 beryl terrapin@coolmail.com wrote thedumbguy thedumbguy on thu 19 apr 2007 183558 gmt tom lawrence tnloaswpraemnmcien5g@earthlink.net wrote accurately know. im 58 and my grandfather gave me a .22 rifle when i was 8. ive been shooting since then. really thats a pretty generic-sounding cartridge there steve. .22 huh well what is it .22lr .22magnum .22-250 lol. steve stop and think for a minute. you just got caught in your own stupidity. nope. it was you again. you even delivered an ironic twist only 28 minutes before posting your stop and think reply you said to steve certainly anyone at your advanced stage of life can follow a thread beryl........great to hear from you again old boy. the home let you at the computer again huh most people that have guns would know what you meant by .22 rifle just as most people would know that 357 refers to the well known model the .357 magnum. you played a stupid little game because you were pissed at larry but you just ended up making yourself look stupid. the 357 magnum is usually referred to as the 357. it is pretty much the standard in that caliber. now they do have the 357 sig intended to be a 357 magnum light for the auto loader and the 357 remington max or 357 max remington intended as a hunting round i think. there could even be others out there but the magnum is the stable and we all knew that was what larry was referring to. idiot! steve referred to the staple not stable from the outset. from then on punkinseed has been pouting as follows is steve a friend of yours beryl or are you just an avenging angel for the people that come here and make fools of themselves you fill the bill old bean because no one could be a bigger fool than you. no where did i ever mention use or imply the word magnum all i said was .357. i gather you have never heard of a .357 sig have you clueless one vastly different the a .357 magnum. educate yourself with this link about them maybe you will learn something http//www.sigarms.com/products/showcatalogproductdetails.aspxcategoryid=8&productid=63 i made a statement about .357 i did not specify magnum or otherwise as the people in here that know me which i have discussed firearms with would know what i meant. sorry you are too stupid to understand that the regulars in here knew what i was refering too im sorry but once again those that know me and who i have been conversing with for many years knew exactly what i was refering too. i never said .357 magnum you did. beryl that last part doesnt even make sense. take your meds every night.....relax.......get some more sleep beryl........and you may be able to actually say something that makes sense. .

From : Annonymous

on thu 19 apr 2007 145813 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote accurately know. im 58 and my grandfather gave me a .22 rifle when i was 8. ive been shooting since then. really thats a pretty generic-sounding cartridge there steve. .22 huh well what is it .22lr .22magnum .22-250 if you can confuse a .22 round with anything else you would not understand anything else i said. steve what an idiot steve. i can say the same about 357. oops its ok for you but not for others yeah thats the ticket steve. you are a fucking moron. now dont take that personally. it is just an observation. a very factual one but never the less i dont mean it personally. .

From : Annonymous

on thu 19 apr 2007 152034 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote theguy@whatever.net wrote as for owning so many guns.......first i doubt it. no shit. i really dont know how many guns i own. so think what you will. i really dont give a shit. steve you dont really give a shit and is that why you took the time to answer me..........the time to get pissed off about it you may indeed be right however steve. i am not sure that you have the mental capacity to count beyone one or two. and finally steve.......thank you.......i will think what i will. .

From : steve b

on thu 19 apr 2007 145813 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote accurately know. im 58 and my grandfather gave me a .22 rifle when i was 8. ive been shooting since then. really thats a pretty generic-sounding cartridge there steve. .22 huh well what is it .22lr .22magnum .22-250 if you can confuse a .22 round with anything else you would not understand anything else i said. steve what an idiot steve. i can say the same about 357. oops its ok for you but not for others yeah thats the ticket steve. you are a fucking moron. now dont take that personally. it is just an observation. a very factual one but never the less i dont mean it personally. why in the world would i take anything you say seriously or personally id bet a days pay if i was still working that is that you are a twenty something virgin who still lives at home with your parents. steve .

From : azwiley1

on apr 19 342 pm steve b surdo2di...@neptune.com wrote on thu 19 apr 2007 145813 -0700 steve b surdo2di...@neptune.com wrote accurately know. im 58 and my grandfather gave me a .22 rifle when i was 8. ive been shooting since then. really thats a pretty generic-sounding cartridge there steve. .22 huh well what is it .22lr .22magnum .22-250 if you can confuse a .22 round with anything else you would not understand anything else i said. steve what an idiot steve. i can say the same about 357. oops its ok for you but not for others yeah thats the ticket steve. you are a fucking moron. now dont take that personally. it is just an observation. a very factual one but never the less i dont mean it personally. why in the world would i take anything you say seriously or personally id bet a days pay if i was still working that is that you are a twenty something virgin who still lives at home with your parents. steve- hide quoted text - - show quoted text - ohh so you are going to start playing the same game that beryl did. becuase you dont like the way some one talks to you especially when the do to you what you have done to others you will start with the youre just some young punk kid shit. .

From : miles

steve b wrote i had a thought while laying in bed this evening. why dont colleges teach ancient technology courses such things as throwing sticks slings and sling shots could be taught. one frat rat with a sling shot and some 1/2 steel ball bearings could have put a hurt on that guy and a half dozen could have killed him. how many people carry sling shots with 1/2 steel ball bearings around at school .

From : Annonymous

on thu 19 apr 2007 154205 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote on thu 19 apr 2007 145813 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote accurately know. im 58 and my grandfather gave me a .22 rifle when i was 8. ive been shooting since then. really thats a pretty generic-sounding cartridge there steve. .22 huh well what is it .22lr .22magnum .22-250 if you can confuse a .22 round with anything else you would not understand anything else i said. steve what an idiot steve. i can say the same about 357. oops its ok for you but not for others yeah thats the ticket steve. you are a fucking moron. now dont take that personally. it is just an observation. a very factual one but never the less i dont mean it personally. why in the world would i take anything you say seriously or personally id bet a days pay if i was still working that is that you are a twenty something virgin who still lives at home with your parents. steve well........let me know what a days pay was when you actually last had a job and lets bet that amount. .

From : tom lawrence

if you can confuse a .22 round with anything else you would not understand anything else i said. hey - i was just pointing out an apparent inconsistency thats all. you seemed to get all worked up over someone else making a general reference to a cartridge yet you did the same thing. and just to illustrate the point a little further... ive got 3 different .22 round boxes in my ammo cases right now long long rifle and magnum - so yeah its pretty easy to get confused if one isnt specific about ones meaning. .

From : Annonymous

on thu 19 apr 2007 173951 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote azwiley1 azwiley1@cox.net wrote ohh so you are going to start playing the same game that beryl did. becuase you dont like the way some one talks to you especially when the do to you what you have done to others you will start with the youre just some young punk kid shit. hit a nerve eh you must be some young punk shit kid. impressive steve. did you learn that at recess today you cant write sentences you cant use proper grammar and your spelling is atrocious. we dont get too hung up on spelling and grammar here. your math skills are inept. keep at it kid. youll get out of high school some day. and youll move out of your parents basement too. when they die and leave you the house. bwaaahaaa! whew. that was a little strange steve. you ok .

From : Annonymous

on fri 20 apr 2007 004724 gmt ed h. edo.hart@verizon.net wrote i think its time for any eye exam as you dont seem to be able to read well. thats what ive been saying. steve has a reading problem. steve has a comprehension problem. i think that steve may ride the short bus. if you can confuse a .22 round with anything else you would not understand anything else i said. hey - i was just pointing out an apparent inconsistency thats all. you seemed to get all worked up over someone else making a general reference to a cartridge yet you did the same thing. and just to illustrate the point a little further... ive got 3 different .22 round boxes in my ammo cases right now long long rifle and magnum - so yeah its pretty easy to get confused if one isnt specific about ones meaning. and this applies to .22 cal. and not .357 right just trying to follow the logic here. steve .

From : tom lawrence

and this applies to .22 cal. and not .357 right just trying to follow the logic here. okay.... ill go real slow.... larry referred to his pistol as a .357 you steve assumed he meant .357magnum and went off on a tirade about that cartridge larry said he wasnt talking about a .357 magnum rather a .357sig you steve blew a cork over the fact that he wasnt specific and just used a general .357 description later you steve made a reference to your .22 rifle i tom pointed out that you steve just did the same thing you blasted larry for doing referring to a cartridge in generalities where one could just as easily assume one caliber over another you steve are now trying to spin something else out of this. me tom him ed and i assume him larry are all laughing at your lack of consistency and blatant hipocrasy. you steve will now reply with something inane and i tom will ignore it. .

From : Annonymous

on thu 19 apr 2007 180040 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote napalmheart olsonfam@iserv.net wrote id use 3/8 ball bearings. higher velocity and you can carry more of them for the same total weight. ;+ a friend of mine used to own a used car lot. somehow steve that does not surprise me. did you work for him just guessing. sometimes they would have some undesirables congregate in the back alley. like when you came to work and parked out back steve he would launch some 3/8 nuts that had to fucking hurt man. sith a wrist rocket down through the alley at head height plus a couple of feet. it didnt take long for the alley to be clear of everything but tomcats. he zinged one over my head once and it sounds just like a ricocheting bullet. wow. i bet you were really scared. was that your combat experience steve man you are a stud. steve .

From : steve b

azwiley1 azwiley1@cox.net wrote ohh so you are going to start playing the same game that beryl did. becuase you dont like the way some one talks to you especially when the do to you what you have done to others you will start with the youre just some young punk kid shit. hit a nerve eh you must be some young punk shit kid. you cant write sentences you cant use proper grammar and your spelling is atrocious. your math skills are inept. keep at it kid. youll get out of high school some day. and youll move out of your parents basement too. when they die and leave you the house. bwaaahaaa! .

From : steve b

steve b wrote i had a thought while laying in bed this evening. why dont colleges teach ancient technology courses such things as throwing sticks slings and sling shots could be taught. one frat rat with a sling shot and some 1/2 steel ball bearings could have put a hurt on that guy and a half dozen could have killed him. how many people carry sling shots with 1/2 steel ball bearings around at school all they needed was one. steve .

From : steve b

if you can confuse a .22 round with anything else you would not understand anything else i said. hey - i was just pointing out an apparent inconsistency thats all. you seemed to get all worked up over someone else making a general reference to a cartridge yet you did the same thing. and just to illustrate the point a little further... ive got 3 different .22 round boxes in my ammo cases right now long long rifle and magnum - so yeah its pretty easy to get confused if one isnt specific about ones meaning. and this applies to .22 cal. and not .357 right just trying to follow the logic here. steve .

From : steve b

theguy@whatever.net wrote well........let me know what a days pay was when you actually last had a job and lets bet that amount. thats hard to say. it ranged between $28 and $85 an hour. steve .

From : napalmheart

steve b wrote i had a thought while laying in bed this evening. why dont colleges teach ancient technology courses such things as throwing sticks slings and sling shots could be taught. one frat rat with a sling shot and some 1/2 steel ball bearings could have put a hurt on that guy and a half dozen could have killed him. how many people carry sling shots with 1/2 steel ball bearings around at school id use 3/8 ball bearings. higher velocity and you can carry more of them for the same total weight. ;+ .

From : ed h

i think its time for any eye exam as you dont seem to be able to read well. if you can confuse a .22 round with anything else you would not understand anything else i said. hey - i was just pointing out an apparent inconsistency thats all. you seemed to get all worked up over someone else making a general reference to a cartridge yet you did the same thing. and just to illustrate the point a little further... ive got 3 different .22 round boxes in my ammo cases right now long long rifle and magnum - so yeah its pretty easy to get confused if one isnt specific about ones meaning. and this applies to .22 cal. and not .357 right just trying to follow the logic here. steve .

From : miles

steve b wrote all they needed was one. i dont think its a good idea to allow students to have weapons on campus. however i do think the security guards and some trained staff should. the guards at vt were unarmed from what ive heard. .

From : steve b

napalmheart olsonfam@iserv.net wrote id use 3/8 ball bearings. higher velocity and you can carry more of them for the same total weight. ;+ a friend of mine used to own a used car lot. sometimes they would have some undesirables congregate in the back alley. he would launch some 3/8 nuts sith a wrist rocket down through the alley at head height plus a couple of feet. it didnt take long for the alley to be clear of everything but tomcats. he zinged one over my head once and it sounds just like a ricocheting bullet. steve .

From : tom lawrence

how many people carry sling shots with 1/2 steel ball bearings around at school no one here in nj.... they slingshots are illegal. and no im not kidding... .

From : tom lawrence

id use 3/8 ball bearings. higher velocity and you can carry more of them for the same total weight. ;+ id go with a set of 30 weight ball bearings myself. its all ball bearings nowadays. ^ .

From : tom lawrence

tomcats. he zinged one over my head once and it sounds just like a ricocheting bullet. darwin must have been on a coffee break.... .

From : steve b

on thu 19 apr 2007 180040 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote napalmheart olsonfam@iserv.net wrote id use 3/8 ball bearings. higher velocity and you can carry more of them for the same total weight. ;+ a friend of mine used to own a used car lot. somehow steve that does not surprise me. did you work for him just guessing. sometimes they would have some undesirables congregate in the back alley. like when you came to work and parked out back steve he would launch some 3/8 nuts that had to fucking hurt man. sith a wrist rocket down through the alley at head height plus a couple of feet. it didnt take long for the alley to be clear of everything but tomcats. he zinged one over my head once and it sounds just like a ricocheting bullet. wow. i bet you were really scared. was that your combat experience steve man you are a stud. steve google pleiku khe sahn and an khe. you can google right .

From : Annonymous

on thu 19 apr 2007 184423 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote on thu 19 apr 2007 180040 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote napalmheart olsonfam@iserv.net wrote id use 3/8 ball bearings. higher velocity and you can carry more of them for the same total weight. ;+ a friend of mine used to own a used car lot. somehow steve that does not surprise me. did you work for him just guessing. sometimes they would have some undesirables congregate in the back alley. like when you came to work and parked out back steve he would launch some 3/8 nuts that had to fucking hurt man. sith a wrist rocket down through the alley at head height plus a couple of feet. it didnt take long for the alley to be clear of everything but tomcats. he zinged one over my head once and it sounds just like a ricocheting bullet. wow. i bet you were really scared. was that your combat experience steve man you are a stud. steve google pleiku khe sahn and an khe. you can google right as i said stevie boy you are a hoot. .

From : azwiley1

azwiley1 azwiley1@cox.net wrote ohh so you are going to start playing the same game that beryl did. becuase you dont like the way some one talks to you especially when the do to you what you have done to others you will start with the youre just some young punk kid shit. hit a nerve eh you must be some young punk shit kid. you cant write sentences you cant use proper grammar and your spelling is atrocious. your math skills are inept. keep at it kid. youll get out of high school some day. and youll move out of your parents basement too. when they die and leave you the house. bwaaahaaa! my math skills how the fuck did that come into this dude lets get something straight both my parents and step-parents are older by many years then you are. you are also proving to everyone like we needed anymore proof that you truly are a horses ass. if you would spend more time reading posts then trolling and causing shit with people you would learn something. like the fact that i was in the military for 16 years. hmm i guess that might be an indication of my age an indication that i dont live with mommy and daddy that though i am not a ballistics expert i do have a clue as to what i am talking about. so assclown maybe next time you want to jump in with both feet why dont you take a little advice and educate yourself about the people you are trying to attack for no reason i might add before you do and you will not look like such a horses ass. really fucking mature of you fucker. wishing someones family dead. .

From : denny

and this applies to .22 cal. and not .357 right just trying to follow the logic here. okay.... ill go real slow.... larry referred to his pistol as a .357 you steve assumed he meant .357magnum and went off on a tirade about that cartridge larry said he wasnt talking about a .357 magnum rather a .357sig you steve blew a cork over the fact that he wasnt specific and just used a general .357 description later you steve made a reference to your .22 rifle i tom pointed out that you steve just did the same thing you blasted larry for doing referring to a cartridge in generalities where one could just as easily assume one caliber over another you steve are now trying to spin something else out of this. me tom him ed and i assume him larry are all laughing at your lack of consistency and blatant hipocrasy. add ole denny onto that list. i didnt realize what i was missing over the last few days. this is good stuff... denny .

From : Annonymous

steve b wrote beryl terrapin@coolmail.com wrote check last months hole in the bed discussion if you really want to see what a punk azwiley1 is. http//tinyurl.com/32fnu3 after a botched attack on snomans reply he became so flustered that all he could produce were emotional outbursts of profanity. and he fancies himself as calm and efficient with a gun. well i admit i was confused by his claim of years spent in the military yet he couldnt see the danger in banging away at an imaginary burglar with a large caliber handgun inside a residence. guess he didnt do much shooting in the mess area. steve heres how i avoid confusion - azwiley1 is gilligan. - roy is the skipper dutifully ready to aid his little buddy. - thedumbguy is like the professor only stupid. well well our troll is back. things must have become a little slow at the rest area. .

From : azwiley1

me tom him ed and i assume him larry are all laughing at your lack of consistency and blatant hipocrasy. here here. something that i have still yet to figure out even after going back and reading everything again is this. why did you steve find it necessary to come in to the conversation and flat out blatantly attack me if you were confused if you were unsure if you simply wanted a little more clarification about it all why didnt you just ask .

From : ed h

opps i meant is that the sound your sheep lover makes bwaaahaaa! is that the sound sheep lover makes .

From : ed h

here here. something that i have still yet to figure out even after going back and reading everything again is this. why did you steve find it necessary to come in to the conversation and flat out blatantly attack me if you were confused if you were unsure if you simply wanted a little more clarification about it all why didnt you just ask thats what bothered me too. it was as if he steve was striking back at all the kids who picked on him steve back in school. i hope he steve is not the next one to go out in a blaze of glory like the maniac did which started this thread not beekeep. .

From : chris thompson

on fri 20 apr 2007 011045 +0000 tom lawrence wrote how many people carry sling shots with 1/2 steel ball bearings around at school no one here in nj.... they slingshots are illegal. and no im not kidding... what you gotta be!!!! heck we broke a many windows as kids here. = -- chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd .

From : chris thompson

on fri 20 apr 2007 011500 +0000 tom lawrence wrote tomcats. he zinged one over my head once and it sounds just like a ricocheting bullet. darwin must have been on a coffee break.... murphy wont be napping long. -- chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd .

From : chris thompson

on wed 18 apr 2007 214552 -0700 azwiley1 wrote oh wait it must be my charming personality! ;^ yea larry thats it your charming personality! *big grin* -- chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd .

From : chris thompson

on thu 19 apr 2007 183558 +0000 tom lawrence wrote accurately know. im 58 and my grandfather gave me a .22 rifle when i was 8. ive been shooting since then. really thats a pretty generic-sounding cartridge there steve. .22 huh well what is it .22lr .22magnum .22-250 you forgot the old .22 automatic yes its a round my grandmother has a .22 auto rifle -- chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd .

From : beryl

thedumbguy on thu 19 apr 2007 142110 -0700 beryl terrapin@coolmail.com thedumbguy thedumbguy on thu 19 apr 2007 183558 gmt tom lawrence tnloaswpraemnmcien5g@earthlink.net wrote accurately know. im 58 and my grandfather gave me a .22 rifle when i was 8. ive been shooting since then. really thats a pretty generic-sounding cartridge there steve. .22 huh well what is it .22lr .22magnum .22-250 lol. steve stop and think for a minute. you just got caught in your own stupidity. nope. it was you again. you even delivered an ironic twist only 28 minutes before posting your stop and think reply you said to steve certainly anyone at your advanced stage of life can follow a thread beryl........great to hear from you again old boy. the home let you at the computer again huh most people that have guns would know what you meant by .22 rifle just as most people would know that 357 refers to the well known model the .357 magnum. you played a stupid little game because you were pissed at larry but you just ended up making yourself look stupid. the 357 magnum is usually referred to as the 357. it is pretty much the standard in that caliber. now they do have the 357 sig intended to be a 357 magnum light for the auto loader and the 357 remington max or 357 max remington intended as a hunting round i think. there could even be others out there but the magnum is the stable and we all knew that was what larry was referring to. idiot! steve referred to the staple not stable from the outset. from then on punkinseed has been pouting as follows is steve a friend of yours beryl or are you just an avenging angel for the people that come here and make fools of themselves you fill the bill old bean because no one could be a bigger fool than you. youve become by far the biggest fool in this thread. are you pretending to not know what you did maybe hoping your buddies wont be smart enough to see it no where did i ever mention use or imply the word magnum all i said was .357. i gather you have never heard of a .357 sig have you clueless one vastly different the a .357 magnum. educate yourself with this link about them maybe you will learn something http//www.sigarms.com/products/showcatalogproductdetails.aspxcategoryid=8&productid=63 i made a statement about .357 i did not specify magnum or otherwise as the people in here that know me which i have discussed firearms with would know what i meant. sorry you are too stupid to understand that the regulars in here knew what i was refering too im sorry but once again those that know me and who i have been conversing with for many years knew exactly what i was refering too. i never said .357 magnum you did. beryl that last part doesnt even make sense. take your meds every night.....relax.......get some more sleep beryl........and you may be able to actually say something that makes sense. idiot that last part doesnt even make sense to *you* because little punky wrote all of it you never read any of it and you havent been following the thread. the punkster does not have a .357 magnum. hes been crying repeatedly that his big bad gun is a .357 sig not magnum. get it your little lecture to steve that the magnum is the stable and we all knew that was what larry was referring to was totally asinine! and this came mere *minutes* after you said steve cant follow the thread how funny! ^ -- in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni .

From : azwiley1

on wed 18 apr 2007 214552 -0700 azwiley1 wrote oh wait it must be my charming personality! ;^ yea larry thats it your charming personality! *big grin* ;^p thanks chris! lol .

From : tom lawrence

you forgot the old .22 automatic yes its a round my grandmother has a .22 auto rifle i left out a bunch of older .22s.... .22 short .22cb .22cb short .22cb long .22 hornet.... its easy to lose track. are you referring to the .22 winchester automatic used in the winchester 1903 .

From : tom lawrence

what you gotta be!!!! nope... 2c39-1r defines weapons and includes slingshots and 2c39-5d defines as a 4th degree crime the possession of other weapons not manifestly appropriate for such lawful uses as it may have. 2c39-9d also makes it a 4th degree crime to manufacture transport ship sell or dispose of a weapon including ... slingshots 4th degree crimes can carry sentences of 1-3 years. .

From : beryl

steve b wrote azwiley1 azwiley1@cox.net wrote ohh so you are going to start playing the same game that beryl did. becuase you dont like the way some one talks to you especially when the do to you what you have done to others you will start with the youre just some young punk kid shit. hit a nerve eh you must be some young punk shit kid. you cant write sentences you cant use proper grammar and your spelling is atrocious. your math skills are inept. keep at it kid. youll get out of high school some day. and youll move out of your parents basement too. when they die and leave you the house. bwaaahaaa! check last months hole in the bed discussion if you really want to see what a punk azwiley1 is. http//tinyurl.com/32fnu3 after a botched attack on snomans reply he became so flustered that all he could produce were emotional outbursts of profanity. and he fancies himself as calm and efficient with a gun. -- in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni .

From : steve b

beryl terrapin@coolmail.com wrote check last months hole in the bed discussion if you really want to see what a punk azwiley1 is. http//tinyurl.com/32fnu3 after a botched attack on snomans reply he became so flustered that all he could produce were emotional outbursts of profanity. and he fancies himself as calm and efficient with a gun. well i admit i was confused by his claim of years spent in the military yet he couldnt see the danger in banging away at an imaginary burglar with a large caliber handgun inside a residence. guess he didnt do much shooting in the mess area. steve .

From : beryl

steve b wrote beryl terrapin@coolmail.com wrote check last months hole in the bed discussion if you really want to see what a punk azwiley1 is. http//tinyurl.com/32fnu3 after a botched attack on snomans reply he became so flustered that all he could produce were emotional outbursts of profanity. and he fancies himself as calm and efficient with a gun. well i admit i was confused by his claim of years spent in the military yet he couldnt see the danger in banging away at an imaginary burglar with a large caliber handgun inside a residence. guess he didnt do much shooting in the mess area. steve heres how i avoid confusion - azwiley1 is gilligan. - roy is the skipper dutifully ready to aid his little buddy. - thedumbguy is like the professor only stupid. -- in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni .

From : Annonymous

on fri 20 apr 2007 073112 -0700 big al sal1@qwest.net wrote if it has rear drum brakes he may have a leaky rear seal and oil on the shoes. thats closer to what hes describing. easy to check just look at the back side of the rear tires and wheels. good point ----------------- thesnoman.com .

From : Annonymous

on fri 20 apr 2007 123700 gmt bill allemann custom4173@sbcglobal.netinvalid wrote ram 2500 4wd ctd 160k miles recently brakes are grabbing probably on only one wheel. it seems to pretty much go away after driving a while. i believe these are anti-lock brakes. can the average brake shop work on these or is a dealer a good idea thanks bill yes to both of your questions. .

From : chris thompson

on fri 20 apr 2007 061220 -0400 roy@fhome.net wrote steve b wrote beryl terrapin@coolmail.com wrote check last months hole in the bed discussion if you really want to see what a punk azwiley1 is. http//tinyurl.com/32fnu3 after a botched attack on snomans reply he became so flustered that all he could produce were emotional outbursts of profanity. and he fancies himself as calm and efficient with a gun. well i admit i was confused by his claim of years spent in the military yet he couldnt see the danger in banging away at an imaginary burglar with a large caliber handgun inside a residence. guess he didnt do much shooting in the mess area. steve heres how i avoid confusion - azwiley1 is gilligan. - roy is the skipper dutifully ready to aid his little buddy. - thedumbguy is like the professor only stupid. well well our troll is back. things must have become a little slow at the rest area. yes but he and steve seem to have found each other at the rest stop. .

From : steve b

steve b wrote beryl terrapin@coolmail.com wrote check last months hole in the bed discussion if you really want to see what a punk azwiley1 is. http//tinyurl.com/32fnu3 after a botched attack on snomans reply he became so flustered that all he could produce were emotional outbursts of profanity. and he fancies himself as calm and efficient with a gun. well i admit i was confused by his claim of years spent in the military yet he couldnt see the danger in banging away at an imaginary burglar with a large caliber handgun inside a residence. guess he didnt do much shooting in the mess area. steve heres how i avoid confusion - azwiley1 is gilligan. - roy is the skipper dutifully ready to aid his little buddy. - thedumbguy is like the professor only stupid. well i had two out of three. i really think that gilligan was much smarter than azwiley. steve .

From : steve b

theguy@whatever.net wrote well well our troll is back. things must have become a little slow at the rest area. well actually there was a lively discussion on gromits going on at the rest stop. one feller was actually giving a demonstration on how to split a length of rubber hose and glue it on the edge of a bored hole. it was intense but sadly all in attendance were unable to grasp the demonstration even though it was visually and verbally simple. steve .

From : steve b

chris thompson kf4drr-nospam@alltel.net wrote its been quite a few years since i even layed eyes on the old rifle for that very reason. its stored away for its own safety. careful or youll be accused of not even owning said gun because you havent seen it in a while. people who own only one guy and who play with it every evening just before bedtime dont understand the concept of safe storage handprints on bluing and treating valuable items with respect. the gun industry did go through quite a lot of experimental .22 caliber shells before they arrived at the standard rounds used today. i believe they were making them proprietary so that they would also make money on the ammunition sales too. an interesting article on the history of the .22 cal. bullet http//www.chuckhawks.com/historyrimfireammo.htm steve .

From : Annonymous

people who own only one guy and who play with it every evening just before bedtime dont understand the concept it would seem that theguy was correct. it appears some serious bonding took place at the rest area. they have taken it to the point of ownership pretty kinky imo. gbmfg .

From : azwiley1

pretending to be an intellectual after you get out of jr. high school for the day by using your momys computer is going to get you into trouble little boy. still cant discuss the issues and questions posed but have to resort to ad hominem attacks eh come back when you can logically debate the issues posed. and in the meantime work on that spelling and grammar and punctuation. you really suck at it. but hey its never too late to go back to school and graduate. even if it is a ges diploma. do something about your inferiority besides flagrantly demonstrate it. you know i would just love for you to explain why it is that you have come to the conclusion that you are superior to anyone in this here group it did not take albert einstein to figure out who you directed this thread at when you started it but for some reason at the age of 58 you felt you had to. ironically though one would believe that at the age of 58 you would be well beyond the school yard games because steve that is about exactly what you are resorting to. im better then you my dad makes more money then you my house is bigger then yours how is it that you have come taken to insulting and attacking us when you know absolutely nothing about the backgrounds education jobs and so on you think that because you dont feel we follow proper grammar that we are uneducated that we are some lower life form then you make a smart assed reply to theguy about his supposed racial remark based of your writings in this here thread if anyone has a hitler type complex it is you. .

From : steve b

you really dont comprehend well do you he repeatedly stated it is not a .357 magnum instead it is a .357 sig. but of course you had already attacked him. you picked a fight because you made an assumption. rather than apologize you stick to the large caliber argument so you can look like the innocent victim. you are an insecure idiotic im retracting my apology sophomoric horses ass. it took him several posts to get it out that it was indeed a sig and not just a plain vanilla .357. not even a magnum. your memory is very selective. steve .

From : ed h

i dont know what reader you use whether if follows indivual threads by topic instead of date but his first response that it was a .357 sig and not a .357 magnum directly followed your vile attack on him. i think you are very sophomoric. with all due respect to aswiley1 i know you are capable of speaking for yourself but this clown has angered me with his inane assumptions. i wonder if the b. in steve b. is short for bozo. you really dont comprehend well do you he repeatedly stated it is not a .357 magnum instead it is a .357 sig. but of course you had already attacked him. you picked a fight because you made an assumption. rather than apologize you stick to the large caliber argument so you can look like the innocent victim. you are an insecure idiotic im retracting my apology sophomoric horses ass. it took him several posts to get it out that it was indeed a sig and not just a plain vanilla .357. not even a magnum. your memory is very selective. steve .

From : ed h

you really dont comprehend well do you he repeatedly stated it is not a ..357 magnum instead it is a .357 sig. but of course you had already attacked him. you picked a fight because you made an assumption. rather than apologize you stick to the large caliber argument so you can look like the innocent victim. you are an insecure idiotic im retracting my apology sophomoric horses ass. beryl terrapin@coolmail.com wrote check last months hole in the bed discussion if you really want to see what a punk azwiley1 is. http//tinyurl.com/32fnu3 after a botched attack on snomans reply he became so flustered that all he could produce were emotional outbursts of profanity. and he fancies himself as calm and efficient with a gun. well i admit i was confused by his claim of years spent in the military yet he couldnt see the danger in banging away at an imaginary burglar with a large caliber handgun inside a residence. guess he didnt do much shooting in the mess area. steve .

From : Annonymous

steve b wrote beryl terrapin@coolmail.com wrote check last months hole in the bed discussion if you really want to see what a punk azwiley1 is. http//tinyurl.com/32fnu3 after a botched attack on snomans reply he became so flustered that all he could produce were emotional outbursts of profanity. and he fancies himself as calm and efficient with a gun. well i admit i was confused by his claim of years spent in the military yet he couldnt see the danger in banging away at an imaginary burglar with a large caliber handgun inside a residence. guess he didnt do much shooting in the mess area. steve heres how i avoid confusion - azwiley1 is gilligan. - roy is the skipper dutifully ready to aid his little buddy. - thedumbguy is like the professor only stupid. well i had two out of three. i really think that gilligan was much smarter than azwiley. think what you will as i know for fact that is what you are going to do. the thing is though as ed h. said you made an assumption about something which you did not have all the facts on and instead of asking a question you attacked. then when you got caught doing the exact same thing you attacked me for you tucked tail and started coming up with all sorts of other things to attack on. instead of doing right and admitting that you were wrong you made yourself shine as the hypocritical ass you really are. beryl is no better at any of this either i am actually sorry to have classed you two as snoman trolls. to snoman i apologize for lumping these two in the same class as you you are a step above them in my book. .

From : steve b

on fri 20 apr 2007 155701 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote on fri 20 apr 2007 125545 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote theguy@whatever.net wrote so while to some degree you have a point i still think that you are just a very uptight anal dweeb who just needs to try to find some reason that he can feel that he is in some way superior to others. you confuse two issues feeling superior and being superior. people who disdain details and are sloppy in their writing are very likely to be sloppy about everything else in their lives. therefore inferior beings. steve very nice adolph. youre welcome. cant come up with the rest of the rant edited out as my service to my fellow man for today. dweeb steve......you are one huge moron. i bet you got picked on as a kid. that makes we wonder........with that many guns how long will it be before we read about you in the paper pretending to be an intellectual after you get out of jr. high school for the day by using your momys computer is going to get you into trouble little boy. still cant discuss the issues and questions posed but have to resort to ad hominem attacks eh come back when you can logically debate the issues posed. and in the meantime work on that spelling and grammar and punctuation. you really suck at it. but hey its never too late to go back to school and graduate. even if it is a ges diploma. do something about your inferiority besides flagrantly demonstrate it. you know i would just love for you to explain why it is that you have come to the conclusion that you are superior to anyone in this here group it did not take albert einstein to figure out who you directed this thread at when you started it but for some reason at the age of 58 you felt you had to. ironically though one would believe that at the age of 58 you would be well beyond the school yard games because steve that is about exactly what you are resorting to. im better then you my dad makes more money then you my house is bigger then yours how is it that you have come taken to insulting and attacking us when you know absolutely nothing about the backgrounds education jobs and so on you think that because you dont feel we follow proper grammar that we are uneducated that we are some lower life form then you make a smart assed reply to theguy about his supposed racial remark based of your writings in this here thread if anyone has a hitler type complex it is you. god you really are dense arent you i wasnt the one who came up with the adolph comment. you are not lower life forms. you are just inferior and continue to prove it with every post. steve .

From : steve b

steve b wrote beryl terrapin@coolmail.com wrote check last months hole in the bed discussion if you really want to see what a punk azwiley1 is. http//tinyurl.com/32fnu3 after a botched attack on snomans reply he became so flustered that all he could produce were emotional outbursts of profanity. and he fancies himself as calm and efficient with a gun. well i admit i was confused by his claim of years spent in the military yet he couldnt see the danger in banging away at an imaginary burglar with a large caliber handgun inside a residence. guess he didnt do much shooting in the mess area. steve heres how i avoid confusion - azwiley1 is gilligan. - roy is the skipper dutifully ready to aid his little buddy. - thedumbguy is like the professor only stupid. well i had two out of three. i really think that gilligan was much smarter than azwiley. think what you will as i know for fact that is what you are going to do. the thing is though as ed h. said you made an assumption about something which you did not have all the facts on and instead of asking a question you attacked. then when you got caught doing the exact same thing you attacked me for you tucked tail and started coming up with all sorts of other things to attack on. instead of doing right and admitting that you were wrong you made yourself shine as the hypocritical ass you really are. beryl is no better at any of this either i am actually sorry to have classed you two as snoman trolls. to snoman i apologize for lumping these two in the same class as you you are a step above them in my book. thank you o king of the realm for making that distinction for us. steve .

From : steve b

on fri 20 apr 2007 171241 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote you really dont comprehend well do you he repeatedly stated it is not a .357 magnum instead it is a .357 sig. but of course you had already attacked him. you picked a fight because you made an assumption. rather than apologize you stick to the large caliber argument so you can look like the innocent victim. you are an insecure idiotic im retracting my apology sophomoric horses ass. no but i do stick it to barrel and samstone whenever i can with my .357 azidiot was the one who originally made the comment that hed blast away at things that go bump in the night including occupants of his own household with his big bad .357 handgun but i blast away at barrel and samstone with my own gun every chance that i get. steve very strange steve. whats strange are the changes in the text that are not part of what i wrote. did you do that steve .

From : Annonymous

on sat 21 apr 2007 000534 gmt samstone@aol.com wrote on fri 20 apr 2007 061220 -0400 roy@fhome.net wrote well well our troll is back. things must have become a little slow at the rest area. yeah we saw but you are right. barrel ass steve the dweeb and i are butt buddies and proud of it. we know alot about rest areas. samstone nice of you to admit it .

From : Annonymous

on fri 20 apr 2007 171241 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote you really dont comprehend well do you he repeatedly stated it is not a .357 magnum instead it is a .357 sig. but of course you had already attacked him. you picked a fight because you made an assumption. rather than apologize you stick to the large caliber argument so you can look like the innocent victim. you are an insecure idiotic im retracting my apology sophomoric horses ass. no but i do stick it to barrel and samstone whenever i can with my .357 azidiot was the one who originally made the comment that hed blast away at things that go bump in the night including occupants of his own household with his big bad .357 handgun but i blast away at barrel and samstone with my own gun every chance that i get. steve very strange steve. .

From : Annonymous

on fri 20 apr 2007 180350 -0700 azwiley1 azwiley1@cox.net wrote so now we resort to changing someones name do we so you can change snos screen name but we cant change yours lol silly lil boy the word then means next. get your son to explain to you the difference between then and than. .

From : ed h

you dont read to well either. he said breaking into my house... you made another assumption and jumped to the conclusion that it was a bump in the night. i hope you live on the east coast because i want as much distance from you while im in california as possible. i can imagine you behind me in traffic approaching an intersection but i want to go into the gas station on the far corner of the intersection so i turn on my turn indicator at the near corner you assume i mean the next intersection look down at your little friend blinky because you think you might have to piss and dont notice my break lights then you rear-end me. in the ensuing converstation i realize its you punch you in the face and spend the night in jail. you really dont comprehend well do you he repeatedly stated it is not a .357 magnum instead it is a .357 sig. but of course you had already attacked him. you picked a fight because you made an assumption. rather than apologize you stick to the large caliber argument so you can look like the innocent victim. you are an insecure idiotic im retracting my apology sophomoric horses ass. no but i do stick to the argument that anyone who would blast away at any intruder with a .357 anything would be a remarkable idiot with regards to safety. azidiot was the one who originally made the comment that hed blast away at things that go bump in the night including occupants of his own household with his big bad .357 handgun. i hope he does live in arizona. that puts a lot of distance between us. the rest of you better duck. steve .

From : azwiley1

you really dont comprehend well do you he repeatedly stated it is not a .357 magnum instead it is a .357 sig. but of course you had already attacked him. you picked a fight because you made an assumption. rather than apologize you stick to the large caliber argument so you can look like the innocent victim. you are an insecure idiotic im retracting my apology sophomoric horses ass. no but i do stick to the argument that anyone who would blast away at any intruder with a .357 anything would be a remarkable idiot with regards to safety. your statement here really goes to show your lack of ballistics knowledge. a ..357sig does not have the same power behind it as you think it does. however if you were to read about it you might know that. you are stuck in your little world where just because it says .357 regardless of what is after it that it is the same. azidiot was the one who originally made the comment that hed blast away at things that go bump in the night including occupants of his own household with his big bad .357 handgun. so now we resort to changing someones name do we also i would love it if you would point out where i made the statements you claim i did. you wont be able to because i didnt make them i didnt imply them. you are also the one that made the statement that i would be the one to shoot my kid not the other way around. nor did i ever say state or imply that i blast away at things that go bumb in the night that was once again you that did. i hope he does live in arizona. that puts a lot of distance between us. the rest of you better duck. i do live in az but would be more then happy to make a road trip why dont you provide me your address. .

From : azwiley1

i dont know what reader you use whether if follows indivual threads by topic instead of date but his first response that it was a .357 sig and not a .357 magnum directly followed your vile attack on him. i think you are very sophomoric. with all due respect to aswiley1 i know you are capable of speaking for yourself but this clown has angered me with his inane assumptions. i wonder if the b. in steve b. is short for bozo. absolutely no worries ed have at it. i am enjoying the show as well as my hockey game! .

From : Annonymous

on sat 21 apr 2007 011356 gmt samstone@aol.com wrote on fri 20 apr 2007 180350 -0700 azwiley1 azwiley1@cox.net wrote so now we resort to changing someones name do we so you can change snos screen name but we we barrell and dweeb had to call in reinforcements huh i can understand dont worry. they were getting their asss kicked. cant change yours lol silly lil boy the word then means next. get your son to explain to you the difference between then and than. .

From : steve b

on fri 20 apr 2007 180350 -0700 azwiley1 azwiley1@cox.net wrote so now we resort to changing someones name do we so you can change snos screen name but we cant change yours lol silly lil boy the word then means next. get your son to explain to you the difference between then and than. amazing isnt it debating with people who dont know the difference between then and than. id rather talk to a dog. at least they will give a predictable response. .

From : beryl

ed h. wrote you really dont comprehend well do you he repeatedly stated it is not a .357 magnum instead it is a .357 sig. but of course you had already ed youre embarassing thedumbguy now. you just ended up making yourself look stupid... the magnum is the stable and we all knew that was what larry was referring to - thedumbguy -- in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni .

From : beryl

azpunky1 azidiot was the one who originally made the comment that hed blast away at things that go bump in the night including occupants of his own household with his big bad .357 handgun. so now we resort to changing someones name do we also i would love it if you would point out where i made the statements you claim i did. you wont be able to because i didnt make them i didnt imply them. love this punkin. i am in bed pistol very near by with in arms reach from laying in bed and loaded as it always is... you honestly think that i would not be awoken by noises and such around my house that are out of the norm my kid has a key and would not be breaking into the house. secondly he also has a phone and would call vice breaking in regardless of time. i see a reckless gun owner and a kid that better *never* make one mistake or hes shot. you are also the one that made the statement that i would be the one to shoot my kid not the other way around. no punkin i made that statement. you are the sort that would shoot wildly at whatever scared you. you yourself told us that its not up to you to determine beforehand if shooting at someone is warranted its up to the state to prove after-the-fact that it wasnt. you are too irresponsible to be trusted with a gun. nor did i ever say state or imply that i blast away at things that go bumb in the night that was once again you that did. its precisely what you told us the quotes are above. -- in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni .

From : beryl

theguy@whatever.net wrote on sat 21 apr 2007 000534 gmt samstone@aol.com wrote on fri 20 apr 2007 061220 -0400 roy@fhome.net wrote well well our troll is back. things must have become a little slow at the rest area. yeah we saw you already announced yourself in another off topic post to all your butt buddies. you seem to know alot about rest areas. samstone nice of you to admit it hey i saw that too. i think that if roy were to wear his diaper like the astronaut he could drive for a couple hours without hitting all the rest areas. -- in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni .

From : beryl

steve b wrote steve b wrote beryl terrapin@coolmail.com wrote check last months hole in the bed discussion if you really want to see what a punk azwiley1 is. http//tinyurl.com/32fnu3 after a botched attack on snomans reply he became so flustered that all he could produce were emotional outbursts of profanity. and he fancies himself as calm and efficient with a gun. well i admit i was confused by his claim of years spent in the military yet he couldnt see the danger in banging away at an imaginary burglar with a large caliber handgun inside a residence. guess he didnt do much shooting in the mess area. steve heres how i avoid confusion - azwiley1 is gilligan. - roy is the skipper dutifully ready to aid his little buddy. - thedumbguy is like the professor only stupid. well i had two out of three. i really think that gilligan was much smarter than azwiley. think what you will as i know for fact that is what you are going to do. the thing is though as ed h. said you made an assumption about something which you did not have all the facts on and instead of asking a question you attacked. then when you got caught doing the exact same thing you attacked me for you tucked tail and started coming up with all sorts of other things to attack on. instead of doing right and admitting that you were wrong you made yourself shine as the hypocritical ass you really are. beryl is no better at any of this either i am actually sorry to have classed you two as snoman trolls. to snoman i apologize for lumping these two in the same class as you you are a step above them in my book. thank you o king of the realm for making that distinction for us. steve hes wimpering now. sob punklettes troubles began with a bungled snoman attack but hes too small to apologize for that directly. -- in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni .

From : Annonymous

theguy@whatever.net wrote on sat 21 apr 2007 000534 gmt samstone@aol.com wrote on fri 20 apr 2007 061220 -0400 roy@fhome.net wrote well well our troll is back. things must have become a little slow at the rest area. yeah we saw you already announced yourself in another off topic post to all your butt buddies. you seem to know alot about rest areas. samstone nice of you to admit it hey i saw that too. i think that if roy were to wear his diaper like the astronaut he could drive for a couple hours without hitting all the rest areas. im sure id find you in most of them. .

From : stephen harding

tom lawrence wrote what you gotta be!!!! nope... 2c39-1r defines weapons and includes slingshots and 2c39-5d defines as a 4th degree crime the possession of other weapons not manifestly appropriate for such lawful uses as it may have. 2c39-9d also makes it a 4th degree crime to manufacture transport ship sell or dispose of a weapon including ... slingshots 4th degree crimes can carry sentences of 1-3 years. id just heard on the radio this week where nj has a law on the books that states it is illegal for commercial fishermen to do any knitting during the fishing season. not certain where that one comes from but apparently still on the books probably from colonial times i would presume. smh .

From : steve b

azpunky1 azidiot was the one who originally made the comment that hed blast away at things that go bump in the night including occupants of his own household with his big bad .357 handgun. so now we resort to changing someones name do we also i would love it if you would point out where i made the statements you claim i did. you wont be able to because i didnt make them i didnt imply them. love this punkin. i am in bed pistol very near by with in arms reach from laying in bed and loaded as it always is... you honestly think that i would not be awoken by noises and such around my house that are out of the norm my kid has a key and would not be breaking into the house. secondly he also has a phone and would call vice breaking in regardless of time. i see a reckless gun owner and a kid that better *never* make one mistake or hes shot. you are also the one that made the statement that i would be the one to shoot my kid not the other way around. no punkin i made that statement. you are the sort that would shoot wildly at whatever scared you. you yourself told us that its not up to you to determine beforehand if shooting at someone is warranted its up to the state to prove after-the-fact that it wasnt. you are too irresponsible to be trusted with a gun. nor did i ever say state or imply that i blast away at things that go bumb in the night that was once again you that did. its precisely what you told us the quotes are above. puhleeze beryl! you know how much facts confuse the poor child! steve ;- .

From : nathan in montana

flame away. anyone flaming you for this is an idiot. one studen legally carrying could have prevented this entire tragedy. i can assure you that every student cowering helplessly under a desk completely at the mercy of the bad guy would have supported legal carry in their school. when you gather large groups of people and ensure they are unarmed they are no more better off than sheep. where sheep gather wolves follow. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

this type of shit is why i carry and have a ccw. get over to http//concealedcarryforum.com -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

this sad incident in va is an illustration of the efficacy of gun control laws. the entire thing couldnt have happened. this was afterall a gun-free zone. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

they prohibit their student body from having the ability to defend themselves stating that they can protect them better then they fail to follow through on that protection. indeed tom. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

would that be the same god that stood by and allowed this to happen if a magical god does exist it still wouldnt be his fault. the fault here lies with the bad guy and the liberals who banned carry. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

im sorry you missed the humor of some here taking the bait .............. are you sbm by chance if so you and azwiley are more alike than you are different. time to kiss and make up. - -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

if members of the student body or faculty had been armed and trained in the proper use of firearms and when its appropriate to use one then the death toll could have been much lower. its very encouraging to find this repeated over and over every place i read. its encouraging to see that the importance of carry is brought into the open....although its a shame it took a tragedy such as this to put it in the forefront. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

a trained police officer at a range of 10 feet with a handgun in a firefight will hit the intended target an average of 2-3 times per 10 shots. the typical police successful hit rate is 26%. the typical ccw successful hit rate is over 70%. for whatever reason those are the facts. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

a .357 sig was and you would also know that it is no where near the round of a .357 magnum. i own many .357 sigs and enjoy the caliber thoroughly. however up to 125 grains the .357 sig is directly comparable and in some cases actually superior ballistically to the .357 magnum. perfect example is from http//www.dakotaammo.net/products/corbon/convjhp.htm 125 gr. .357 magnum 1400fps 544# energy 125 gr. .357 sig 1425fps 564# energy when you get into the heavier rounds the .357 magnum does out-perform the ..357 sig but by how much i dont see how having 6 shots in a revolver can compare with have 16+ shots in a perfectly reliable automatic. i do however disagree with steve about the .357 magnum being a poor choice for home defense. i think its a great choice for home defense. most any modern defensive caliber is capable of penetrating several layers of home construction. just dont miss the bad guy. - while the .45 acp remains as my favorite carry caliber i dont feel undergunned one bit when i carry my g31. if its good enough to protect the president of the united states its good enough for me. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : azwiley1

i own many .357 sigs and enjoy the caliber thoroughly. however up to 125 grains the .357 sig is directly comparable and in some cases actually superior ballistically to the .357 magnum. perfect example is from http//www.dakotaammo.net/products/corbon/convjhp.htm 125 gr. .357 magnum 1400fps 544# energy 125 gr. .357 sig 1425fps 564# energy thank you for the info nate. i will admit that i was unaware of just how powerful the sig was rated. .

From : steve b

a .357 sig was and you would also know that it is no where near the round of a .357 magnum. i own many .357 sigs and enjoy the caliber thoroughly. however up to 125 grains the .357 sig is directly comparable and in some cases actually superior ballistically to the .357 magnum. perfect example is from http//www.dakotaammo.net/products/corbon/convjhp.htm 125 gr. .357 magnum 1400fps 544# energy 125 gr. .357 sig 1425fps 564# energy when you get into the heavier rounds the .357 magnum does out-perform the .357 sig but by how much i dont see how having 6 shots in a revolver can compare with have 16+ shots in a perfectly reliable automatic. i do however disagree with steve about the .357 magnum being a poor choice for home defense. i think its a great choice for home defense. most any modern defensive caliber is capable of penetrating several layers of home construction. just dont miss the bad guy. - while the .45 acp remains as my favorite carry caliber i dont feel undergunned one bit when i carry my g31. if its good enough to protect the president o

From : azwiley1

im sorry you missed the humor of some here taking the bait .............. are you sbm by chance if so you and azwiley are more alike than you are different. time to kiss and make up. - dude there is no way it could be him if it were then i definately want a damn explaination for the attack! either way how are we more alike .

From : nathan in montana

thank you for the info nate. i will admit that i was unaware of just how powerful the sig was rated. when it first came out i thought of it as just another vanity round. after the secret service adopted it however i started to look into it. when my pre-ordered trp arrived at the gun store i went to pick it up and purely on impulse i picked up a glock 31 as well. since then ive developed one heck of a respect for the round and have since purchased several additional .357 sigs. its a great round and i actually prefer it to anything other than .45 or 10mm. i even like it more than my .40s. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

how are we more alike if it were sbm you two would be more alike than different in your beliefs of the importance of carry in our society. ive since realized that its not sbm which is good because if it were i would have been disappointed in his unwarranted attack. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : azwiley1

how are we more alike if it were sbm you two would be more alike than different in your beliefs of the importance of carry in our society. ive since realized that its not sbm which is good because if it were i would have been disappointed in his unwarranted attack. gotcha! now fix your site please all it does is let me click agree over and over and over -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

now fix your site please all it does is let me click agree over and over and over your firewall settings are so high that theyre preventing my server from reading your cookie therefore it doesnt know you clicked agree. if you could lower them just a little the trouble will go away. .....im in the process of upgrading to another platform that isnt cookie dependant. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : steve b

they prohibit their student body from having the ability to defend themselves stating that they can protect them better then they fail to follow through on that protection. indeed tom. -- nathan in montana i love this picture http//police.unlv.edu/ .

From : steve b

nathan in montana montanajeeper@aol.com wrote while the .45 acp remains as my favorite carry caliber i dont feel undergunned one bit when i carry my g31. if its good enough to protect the president of the united states its good enough for me. -- nathan in montana the teacher at my last ccf class formerly called ccw screwed up my thinking. he is a weapons training officer with las vegas metropolitan police department and is in on all of the reviews of officers discharging their weapon for any reason. i used to like the .45 acp although not for body carry. it stays in the truck. i also have a 17 shot ruger 93dc that i alternate in the truck. because of his course my third now with metro i only carry a .380 keltec or a 649 smith & wesson. the keltec is an inside the pants holster and the ..357 magnum is in a safariland paddle holster that is almost invisible on my hip when worn with a long shirt vest or jacket. because of the changing environment in our city and all the 413 man with a gun calls the local sheriff has changed the rules slightly. if a person has a ccf and they get a call because someone has seen their gun they get a letter from the sheriff explaining that there will be no second time. the second time the permit is cancelled. breaking concealment is grounds for losing the permit. this does not apply to situations where the gun was drawn for protection but only applies when you are reaching for something on the top shelf at k mart or it falls on the floor when you are reaching for your cell phone. other cities and other states are better/worse depending on where you are. i personally carry pepper spray most of the time. i asked my sil po about it and he said that the police have no problem with it and wished more people would carry it. he said just to tell any officer at the get go you got it on you. i use it because my fun job takes me to some rather seedy parts of town. i have special markings on my license plate rings that identify me to police officers so i also have not had a call in of my license plate in nine years now. as with slingshots previously discussed in this thread one should find out about the law in their area first. this last training drilled home that the absolute last thing you want to do is draw your gun and fire. it also drilled home that you probably have to allow someone to pound on you so it leaves marks so that when you do shoot you dont get sued by the family of the perp. it also drilled home the use of flight or pepper spray. many a person has been killed with one round from a simple .22 firearm. discretion situational awareness judgement and common sense can many times get you out of or keep you from getting into deep holes that you need to shoot your way out of. and after that proficiency with your weapon plays a big part in the outcome. steve .

From : steve b

i used to like the .45 acp although not for body carry. it stays in the truck. unless you happen to be in the truck when you need it what good will it do you in the truck it stays in the truck because it is too large to carry secretively. i carry one of the smaller pistols when walking about. in defensive scenarios there are different zones. why do police officers leave their shotguns in their cars steve .

From : nathan in montana

it stays in the truck because it is too large to carry secretively. having the right holster is as important as having the right gun. what holsters have you tried for it i have a literal box full of holsters that suck. i had all but given up on finding an iwb rig that i could tolerate and then i found the vm2. its the only iwb rig ive found comfortable. its so dang comfortable in fact that i literally forget that its there. ive fallen asleep wearing it many times. http//miltsparks.com/vm-2.htm makes a full size 1911 disappear even under shorts/t-shirt.. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com i carry one of the smaller pistols when walking about. in defensive scenarios there are different zones. why do police officers leave their shotguns in their cars steve .

From : nathan in montana

-- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com heres a very nice gun week article on the .357 sig. their take is that the round was actually developed for better penetration of cars. as you can see from the ballistics posted there it is right in there with the .38 and .357 magnums rating slightly better than some and not quite as strong as others. http//www.gunweek.com/2002/feature0210.html steve . 222 333735 mdqdnxuhneiwm7fbnz2dnuvzo2vnz2d@bresnan.com i used to like the .45 acp although not for body carry. it stays in the truck. unless you happen to be in the truck when you need it what good will it do you in the truck i only carry a .380 keltec or a 649 smith & wesson. the keltec is an inside the pants holster and the .357 magnum is in a safariland paddle holster that is almost invisible on my hip when worn with a long shirt vest or jacket. im with you on the .357 magnum but not the .380. i recommend that folks find the largest caliber they can handle effectively and then dress around it without exception. the smallest caliber ill ever carry or recommend is 9mm +p. with the industry focus trend heading towards concealed carry 9mm firearms are not really much larger than your .380 and not difficult to conceal with proper dress. were i facing an armed attacker with a 9mm +p ..357 sig .40 .45 or 10mm i wouldnt hesitate to react appropriately. were i armed only with a .380 i would be reluctant to draw his fire. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : steve b

it stays in the truck because it is too large to carry secretively. having the right holster is as important as having the right gun. what holsters have you tried for it i have a literal box full of holsters that suck. i had all but given up on finding an iwb rig that i could tolerate and then i found the vm2. its the only iwb rig ive found comfortable. its so dang comfortable in fact that i literally forget that its there. ive fallen asleep wearing it many times. http//miltsparks.com/vm-2.htm makes a full size 1911 disappear even under shorts/t-shirt.. holsters are my biggest nemesis. i have a galco for my 9mm and it is a $65 piece of shit. the gun is impossible to draw. with exception of the safariland paddle most i have tried are very restrictive on drawing the weapon. i hate to say it but nylon and velcro work better. my favorite are those supported by a belt and having strips that wrap around the leg but there are not a lot of situations where one can wear that setup. the new baggy pants with the cargo pockets are somewhat helpful in pocketing smaller firearms. theres a huge difference between being in a completely concealed carry situation and one where exposure is allowed. i live in las vegas and it is hard here to cover up in the summer because of the heat. but concealed carry is a huge responsibility and if one chooses to do it they must make the preparations to do so. fanny packs become an option but every instructor i have had will tell you theyre not a good idea. its all relative to body size and shape. but finding a good holster is like finding a comfortable pair of shoes. you hardly notice its there. steve .

From : nathan in montana

holsters are my biggest nemesis. i have a galco for my 9mm and it is a $65 piece of shit. i was there too for a long time. galcos always served me well because i didnt know any better. get ahold of a true custom like the vm2. youll never go back. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com the gun is impossible to draw. with exception of the safariland paddle most i have tried are very restrictive on drawing the weapon. i hate to say it but nylon and velcro work better. my favorite are those supported by a belt and having strips that wrap around the leg but there are not a lot of situations where one can wear that setup. the new baggy pants with the cargo pockets are somewhat helpful in pocketing smaller firearms. theres a huge difference between being in a completely concealed carry situation and one where exposure is allowed. i live in las vegas and it is hard here to cover up in the summer because of the heat. but concealed carry is a huge responsibility and if one chooses to do it they must make the preparations to do so. fanny packs become an option but every instructor i have had will tell you theyre not a good idea. its all relative to body size and shape. but finding a good holster is like finding a comfortable pair of shoes. you hardly notice its there. steve .

From : steve b

holsters are my biggest nemesis. i have a galco for my 9mm and it is a $65 piece of shit. i was there too for a long time. galcos always served me well because i didnt know any better. get ahold of a true custom like the vm2. youll never go back. -- nathan in montana galcos are a stiff enough piece of cow hide. then you put a big belt through there and it makes it curve even more and hold the pistol tighter. about the only thing you can do is put a plastic replica in there and steam the shit out of it. im just not in the market for any more handguns. i do have a ruger red label and a savage model 12 bvss 22-250 on my shopping list for purchase soon. im partial to the pistols i use regularly and can hit what i shoot at. qualified 288/300 and 348/360 with revolver and semi-auto respectively. i hardly shoot most of the guns i own and many havent been out of the safe in years. guess its time to sell some and clean house and buy that retirement fishing boat. steve .

From : denny

it stays in the truck because it is too large to carry secretively. having the right holster is as important as having the right gun. what holsters have you tried for it i have a literal box full of holsters that suck. i had all but given up on finding an iwb rig that i could tolerate and then i found the vm2. its the only iwb rig ive found comfortable. its so dang comfortable in fact that i literally forget that its there. ive fallen asleep wearing it many times. http//miltsparks.com/vm-2.htm thanks for the link. ive been looking for a good iwb holster for a couple of years and not found a one that i like. denny .

From : denny

flame away. anyone flaming you for this is an idiot. one studen legally carrying could have prevented this entire tragedy. i can assure you that every student cowering helplessly under a desk completely at the mercy of the bad guy would have supported legal carry in their school. nate ive had a ccw for several years and cant argue against carrying but remember how much you drank when in college i do and sure wouldnt think itd be a good idea to have a bunch of hung-over kids walking around armed. way too many hormones and alcohol involved there. that being said i wouldnt want to trust my life to a bunch of unarmed security idiots either. when you gather large groups of people and ensure they are unarmed they are no more better off than sheep. where sheep gather wolves follow. thats what varmit rifles were made for... denny -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : heatwave

tom lawrence wrote bad analogy. not really. with a car one needs to register and license it. no you dont. only if you intend on driving legally around on public roads would you need to do any of that. if you are going to a crowded place to run people over who cares. slap some stolen plates on find a crowd punch gas pedal. its to easy! something must be done! ..... http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/mohammedrezataheri-azar ----------------------------------- snojob follies sbj dumb brake question http//tinyurl.com/2ya3wo sbj snoball defense system v1.01 http//tinyurl.com/2hth74 ----------------------------------- .

From : roy

it stays in the truck because it is too large to carry secretively. having the right holster is as important as having the right gun. what holsters have you tried for it i have a literal box full of holsters that suck. i had all but given up on finding an iwb rig that i could tolerate and then i found the vm2. its the only iwb rig ive found comfortable. its so dang comfortable in fact that i literally forget that its there. ive fallen asleep wearing it many times. http//miltsparks.com/vm-2.htm thanks for the link. ive been looking for a good iwb holster for a couple of years and not found a one that i like. they are a very good holster. i have one for the sig 239.but then again whatever works for you is a good holster. but while thinking about your situation wouldnt a shoulder rig be better for ya i figure you having to reach under that stomach for a gun has to be a bitch. im surprised your arms are long enough. gbmfg roy denny .

From : nathan in montana

http//miltsparks.com/vm-2.htm no left-handed models pfft facists... heh. you can get it in left handed models. im pretty dang sure you specify right/left hand when you place your oder. be aware its a true custom however and you can wait up to 20 weeks for its arrival. .....worth every day though. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

thanks for the link. ive been looking for a good iwb holster for a couple of years and not found a one that i like. im glad i rolled the dice one more time on an iwb rig. i cannot recommend the vm2 highly enough with the only downside being the loooooong wait. check with craig at http//lightningarms.com as he has standing orders with sparks and every once in awhile he gets in a large order. he marks them up a little so theyll cost a little more than if you get them directly from sparks but you dont have the wait if he has them in stock. in the past year ive bought 6-8 holsters from craig and it has never taken more than 2 days to get it in. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nate ive had a ccw for several years and cant argue against carrying but remember how much you drank when in college you just cant punish everyone by taking away their rights for fear what some might do. im certain there were many anti-gun liberals who died that day.....and in the final moments of their lives i can dang well bet they wished they had a gun. you cannot depend upon the police security guards or the good graces of the bad guys to ensure your safety. personal security is a personal responsibility and when you deny someone the right to defend themselves you subject them to the will of others.....as this horrible incident clearly shows. i do and sure wouldnt think itd be a good idea to have a bunch of hung-over kids walking around armed. .....all it would have taken was one responsible gun owner who was properly trained in how to use it. when the bad guy is the only one that is armed he has all the power and everyone around him is subject to his will. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : beryl

nathan in montana wrote flame away. anyone flaming you for this is an idiot. one studen legally carrying could have prevented this entire tragedy. i can assure you that every student cowering helplessly under a desk completely at the mercy of the bad guy would have supported legal carry in their school. when you gather large groups of people and ensure they are unarmed they are no more better off than sheep. where sheep gather wolves follow. youre suggesting an ideal scenario where one responsible person with a gun can do everything right. probably every gun enthusiast fantasizes that he could have been virginia techs hero. i think that your 25000 gun-carrying sheep on the vt campus might be a poor solution. your sheep & wolves analogy isnt realistic real wolves dont look like sheep and they dont wear sheeps clothing. the vt gunman looked like anybody else would holding a gun so the final outcome may have been based on who had the itchiest trigger finger and who shot at who first. students could have continued shooting each other across the campus after the original gunman was already dead. if just 100 armed and excitable azwileys saw each other pointing guns thats 99 dead right there. did you miss it azwiley1 has let us know that it simply isnt his responsibility to determine beforehand whether shooting someone is justified. its the states duty to prove after the shooting that it wasnt. -- in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni .

From : roy

nathan in montana wrote flame away. anyone flaming you for this is an idiot. one studen legally carrying could have prevented this entire tragedy. i can assure you that every student cowering helplessly under a desk completely at the mercy of the bad guy would have supported legal carry in their school. when you gather large groups of people and ensure they are unarmed they are no more better off than sheep. where sheep gather wolves follow. youre suggesting an ideal scenario where one responsible person with a gun can do everything right. probably every gun enthusiast fantasizes that he could have been virginia techs hero. i think that your 25000 gun-carrying sheep on the vt campus might be a poor solution. your sheep & wolves analogy isnt realistic real wolves dont look like sheep and they dont wear sheeps clothing. the vt gunman looked like anybody else would holding a gun so the final outcome may have been based on who had the itchiest trigger finger and who shot at who first. students could have continued shooting each other across the campus after the original gunman was already dead. if just 100 armed and excitable azwileys saw each other pointing guns thats 99 dead right there. did you miss it azwiley1 has let us know that it simply isnt his responsibility to determine beforehand whether shooting someone is justified. its the states duty to prove after the shooting that it wasnt. man you just gotta keep the bs going dont ya. .

From : azwiley1

on apr 22 1009 pm beryl terra...@coolmail.com wrote nathan in montana wrote flame away. anyone flaming you for this is an idiot. one studen legally carrying could have prevented this entire tragedy. i can assure you that every student cowering helplessly under a desk completely at the mercy of the bad guy would have supported legal carry in their school. when you gather large groups of people and ensure they are unarmed they are no more better off than sheep. where sheep gather wolves follow. youre suggesting an ideal scenario where one responsible person with a gun can do everything right. probably every gun enthusiast fantasizes that he could have been virginia techs hero. i think that your 25000 gun-carrying sheep on the vt campus might be a poor solution. your sheep & wolves analogy isnt realistic real wolves dont look like sheep and they dont wear sheeps clothing. the vt gunman looked like anybody else would holding a gun so the final outcome may have been based on who had the itchiest trigger finger and who shot at who first. students could have continued shooting each other across the campus after the original gunman was already dead. if just 100 armed and excitable azwileys saw each other pointing guns thats 99 dead right there. did you miss it azwiley1 has let us know that it simply isnt his responsibility to determine beforehand whether shooting someone is justified. its the states duty to prove after the shooting that it wasnt. man you are dumber then a box of rocks and youre too damn stupid to just stfu at times even when one of your partners in crime says let it rest. also if you are going to try and quote something that i or anyone said get it right asshole. i did not say or imply that i didnt have to prove anything i stated as it is the fact of law here that the defence/defense does not have to prove that i was justified that it is up to the state/prosecution to prove that it was unjustified. what dont you understand fucknuts .

From : nathan in montana

i think that your 25000 gun-carrying sheep on the vt campus might be a poor solution. i have never stated suggested or implied in any way that every student should be armed. what ive stated is that you cannot deny that right to those who wish to exercise it. students could have continued shooting each other across the campus after the original gunman was already dead. give me any statistical data to substantiate that this is in any way a probability. your statement sir is without merit. you do however bring up a valid point. without knowing who the gunman is it can be quite difficult to distinguish between the good guys and the bad. this is where proper training comes into effect. if you follow your training you minimize the possibility of shooting the wrong guy. yes it happens....but given the choice of facing a trained armed good guy verses being unarmed and completely at the mercy of an armed bad guy ill take my chances on the good guy. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : roy

on apr 22 1009 pm beryl terra...@coolmail.com wrote nathan in montana wrote flame away. anyone flaming you for this is an idiot. one studen legally carrying could have prevented this entire tragedy. i can assure you that every student cowering helplessly under a desk completely at the mercy of the bad guy would have supported legal carry in their school. when you gather large groups of people and ensure they are unarmed they are no more better off than sheep. where sheep gather wolves follow. youre suggesting an ideal scenario where one responsible person with a gun can do everything right. probably every gun enthusiast fantasizes that he could have been virginia techs hero. i think that your 25000 gun-carrying sheep on the vt campus might be a poor solution. your sheep & wolves analogy isnt realistic real wolves dont look like sheep and they dont wear sheeps clothing. the vt gunman looked like anybody else would holding a gun so the final outcome may have been based on who had the itchiest trigger finger and who shot at who first. students could have continued shooting each other across the campus after the original gunman was already dead. if just 100 armed and excitable azwileys saw each other pointing guns thats 99 dead right there. did you miss it azwiley1 has let us know that it simply isnt his responsibility to determine beforehand whether shooting someone is justified. its the states duty to prove after the shooting that it wasnt. man you are dumber then a box of rocks and youre too damn stupid to just stfu at times even when one of your partners in crime says let it rest. also if you are going to try and quote something that i or anyone said get it right asshole. i did not say or imply that i didnt have to prove anything i stated as it is the fact of law here that the defence/defense does not have to prove that i was justified that it is up to the state/prosecution to prove that it was unjustified. what dont you understand fucknuts this is getting very old dont ya think. comes a time when nobody is able to prove a point. .

From : azwiley1

on apr 23 1235 pm roy r...@fhome.net wrote on apr 22 1009 pm beryl terra...@coolmail.com wrote nathan in montana wrote flame away. anyone flaming you for this is an idiot. one studen legally carrying could have prevented this entire tragedy. i can assure you that every student cowering helplessly under a desk completely at the mercy of the bad guy would have supported legal carry in their school. when you gather large groups of people and ensure they are unarmed they are no more better off than sheep. where sheep gather wolves follow. youre suggesting an ideal scenario where one responsible person with a gun can do everything right. probably every gun enthusiast fantasizes that he could have been virginia techs hero. i think that your 25000 gun-carrying sheep on the vt campus might be a poor solution. your sheep & wolves analogy isnt realistic real wolves dont look like sheep and they dont wear sheeps clothing. the vt gunman looked like anybody else would holding a gun so the final outcome may have been based on who had the itchiest trigger finger and who shot at who first. students could have continued shooting each other across the campus after the original gunman was already dead. if just 100 armed and excitable azwileys saw each other pointing guns thats 99 dead right there. did you miss it azwiley1 has let us know that it simply isnt his responsibility to determine beforehand whether shooting someone is justified. its the states duty to prove after the shooting that it wasnt. man you are dumber then a box of rocks and youre too damn stupid to just stfu at times even when one of your partners in crime says let it rest. also if you are going to try and quote something that i or anyone said get it right asshole. i did not say or imply that i didnt have to prove anything i stated as it is the fact of law here that the defence/defense does not have to prove that i was justified that it is up to the state/prosecution to prove that it was unjustified. what dont you understand fucknuts this is getting very old dont ya think. comes a time when nobody is able to prove a point.- hide quoted text - - show quoted text - roy my reply was not an attempt to prove a point though i do agree with you on the getting old issue. however im not going to sit here and let some assclown make false statements and claim it is what i said. .

From : azwiley1

i understand that youre now babbling about your defense in court your legal argument. not your personal defense when you decide to shoot someone. i understand that you dont really give a flip about who you mistakenly shoot as long as youre off the hook. what is it that you do not comprehend my statement was and i will repeat it for you hard of hearing types once again. ill even do it in caps for you. if you are going to try and quote some one get your shit right if some one breaks into my house not invited in not some one i know not my kid and i feel that the life of my family or my own is in danger if have the justifiable right to shoot them! it then falls on the states plate to prove that the shooting was unjust not for the defense to prove it was just. now absolutely no where in any post i made in this thread did i ever say imply or insinuate that i would jump out of bed blasting that is your feeble mind reading into what you want to see instead of what is there. the accusation to this effect came from you or maybe it was steve b not sure but it damn sure as hell did not come from me. ahh hell youre a fucking retard anyway you wont read what is actually there in front of you so who cares. .

From : heatwave

says... maybe its time for software to control guns like it does nearly everything else... yeah thats what i need my gun to do bluescreen at a critical moment. .

From : Annonymous

on tue 24 apr 2007 002449 -0400 heatwave m3lt1ng5n0wmen@wah00.com wrote says... maybe its time for software to control guns like it does nearly everything else... yeah thats what i need my gun to do bluescreen at a critical moment. gives a new meaning to the blue screen of death. .

From : beryl

azwiley1 wrote on apr 22 1009 pm beryl terra...@coolmail.com wrote .... did you miss it azwiley1 has let us know that it simply isnt his responsibility to determine beforehand whether shooting someone is justified. its the states duty to prove after the shooting that it wasnt. .... also if you are going to try and quote something that i or anyone said get it right asshole. i did not say or imply that i didnt have to prove anything youre right it is not up to me to prove he was armed and that my life or that of my family was in danger. it is up to the state pros to prove that my life and/or that of my families wasnt. - punkin i stated as it is the fact of law here that the defence/defense does not have to prove that i was justified that it is up to the state/prosecution to prove that it was unjustified. what dont you understand fucknuts i understand that youre now babbling about your defense in court your legal argument. not your personal defense when you decide to shoot someone. i understand that you dont really give a flip about who you mistakenly shoot as long as youre off the hook. -- in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni .

From : denny

nate ive had a ccw for several years and cant argue against carrying but remember how much you drank when in college you just cant punish everyone by taking away their rights for fear what some might do. im certain there were many anti-gun liberals who died that day.....and in the final moments of their lives i can dang well bet they wished they had a gun. you cannot depend upon the police security guards or the good graces of the bad guys to ensure your safety. personal security is a personal responsibility and when you deny someone the right to defend themselves you subject them to the will of others.....as this horrible incident clearly shows. nate trust me im on your side on this. somebody takes away my right to own a weapon and im not gonna be a happy camper. i just dont think well ever see concealed carry allowed on any campus just for the above reason. my co-workers and me get into a discussion from time to time. a number of them run the local dirt track on friday nights and theyre always talking about somebody getting into a fight in the pits. and the constant badmouthing of the other drivers. compare that to my competative shooting where there is an unreal amount of politeness amonst the shooters. i wonder if it has anything to do with a .45 on the hip....even tho its unloaded.. denny .

From : beryl

nathan in montana wrote i think that your 25000 gun-carrying sheep on the vt campus might be a poor solution. i have never stated suggested or implied in any way that every student should be armed. what ive stated is that you cannot deny that right to those who wish to exercise it. i cant deny the right to wear body armor to those who wish to exercise it. students could have continued shooting each other across the campus after the original gunman was already dead. give me any statistical data to substantiate that this is in any way a probability. your statement sir is without merit. mass hysteria & panic happens. merely saying the wrong words in large groups has caused trampling deaths in stampedes. wasnt there a story about some guy hid out in the forests phillipines for like 30 years because he never got the word that wwii was over i think there has to be communications and a commander to orchestrate things. imagine how much tougher the polices job would be with thousands of alarmed and armed students running around. who should they shoot at you do however bring up a valid point. without knowing who the gunman is it can be quite difficult to distinguish between the good guys and the bad. this is where proper training comes into effect. if you follow your training you minimize the possibility of shooting the wrong guy. yes it happens....but given the choice of facing a trained armed good guy verses being unarmed and completely at the mercy of an armed bad guy ill take my chances on the good guy. maybe its time for software to control guns like it does nearly everything else... gun contains small battery and piezo tweeter that emits a *chirp* every few seconds like a car alarm. wont operate without it. now everyone knows who the wolf is its the guy chirping. also a time delay so the gun isnt ready for use until its been actively chirping for 30 minutes. -- in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni .

From : beekeep

on sun 22 apr 2007 220945 -0700 beryl terrapin@coolmail.com wrote if just 100 armed and excitable azwileys saw each other pointing guns thats 99 dead right there. did you miss it azwiley1 has let us know that it simply isnt his responsibility to determine beforehand whether shooting someone is justified. its the states duty to prove after the shooting that it wasnt. nah - hes too busy trying to catch that damn road runner bird! i think acme makes bullets but i dont think they make guns anyway. beekeep .

From : beekeep

i was just reading aarcudas comments in another thread and the deuce and a half came to mind. also the jeep. i googled up the old deuce and a half. wow a whopping 104 horsepower! and iirc the early forties jeeps were 60 hp. you can do a lot with gearing and engineering but sometimes there just aint no substitute for power. ah the good old days. youd always get there. eventually. steve .

From : steve b

on mon 23 apr 2007 102701 -0400 roy roy@fhome.net wrote still cant help yourself can ya. no troll you cannot help yourself from spreading improper information. like i said the glycol does not break down only the aditives while trying to control the galvanic reactivety of the water in coolant with engine parts it contacts. if you run a higher consentation of glycol you can greatly extend coolant life but there are those such as you that will say water cools better even though glycol is densor and it takes more heat to raise a gallon of it one degree than it does water and it has a lower surface tension as well and transfer heat out of motor better too. see trolls such as your self do not know the chemistry behind things so you rant and rave a lot. some may say that the temp gage is a little higher with higher glycol consentrations but that is because it is conducting more heat out of the block die to lower surface tension and a reduces gas bubble bbarrier forming around hot parts that inhibits heat transfer from metal part and temp gage reads coolant temp true not block or head temp. btw i have been running 70/30 for many years and i have a excellant coolant life and i have a 18 year old vehicle that over flow

From : roy

nate ive had a ccw for several years and cant argue against carrying but remember how much you drank when in college you just cant punish everyone by taking away their rights for fear what some might do. im certain there were many anti-gun liberals who died that day.....and in the final moments of their lives i can dang well bet they wished they had a gun. you cannot depend upon the police security guards or the good graces of the bad guys to ensure your safety. personal security is a personal responsibility and when you deny someone the right to defend themselves you subject them to the will of others.....as this horrible incident clearly shows. nate trust me im on your side on this. somebody takes away my right to own a weapon and im not gonna be a happy camper. i just dont think well ever see concealed carry allowed on any campus just for the above reason. my co-workers and me get into a discussion from time to time. a number of them run the local dirt track on friday nights and theyre always talking about somebody getting into a fight in the pits. and the constant badmouthing of the other drivers. pal fights in the pits are a tradition at just about every small track on fri and sat nights. the guns are in the haulers. hell at thompson in ct when spencer was running modifieds heaven help the other guy who spun jimmy. his entire pit crew was on him. hell his pit crew was his family and were some tough people. compare that to my competative shooting where there is an unreal amount of politeness amonst the shooters. i wonder if it has anything to do with a .45 on the hip....even tho its unloaded.. rules you have rules that are enforced at the range. racin the first rule is there are no rules. its all who your sponser is. roy denny .

From : steve b

azwiley1 azwiley1@cox.net wrote the accusation to this effect came from you or maybe it was steve b not sure but it damn sure as hell did not come from me. all i have said and will continue to say is that shooting someone is not as simple scenario as you project it to be. its not always written in stone and any slimy lawyer whos worth his evian water knows ten different ways to come at you. or will come up with some new tactic. and even if you do win the case your lawyer gets his $400 per hour and good luck getting that back from the perp in small claims court. steve .

From : azwiley1

azwiley1 azwiley1@cox.net wrote the accusation to this effect came from you or maybe it was steve b not sure but it damn sure as hell did not come from me. all i have said and will continue to say is that shooting someone is not as simple scenario as you project it to be. its not always written in stone and any slimy lawyer whos worth his evian water knows ten different ways to come at you. or will come up with some new tactic. and even if you do win the case your lawyer gets his $400 per hour and good luck getting that back from the perp in small claims court. understood and i believe you understand what i was saying. that being said i will end this as i dont have any desire to enter into another pissing contest with you over this. .

From : tom lawrence

yeah thats what i need my gun to do bluescreen at a critical moment. dont laugh.... my state already has law on the books that says only smart guns can be sold in this state.... just as soon as one is developed. thats right - we actually have a law requiring something that doesnt even exist yet. oh of course leos are exempt from the law... as well im sure are the personal security staff of the elected officials. hmmm..... .

From : steve b

yeah thats what i need my gun to do bluescreen at a critical moment. dont laugh.... my state already has law on the books that says only smart guns can be sold in this state.... just as soon as one is developed. thats right - we actually have a law requiring something that doesnt even exist yet. oh of course leos are exempt from the law... as well im sure are the personal security staff of the elected officials. hmmm..... reminds me of us surgeon general jocelyn elders comment that we needed safer bullets. steve .

From : nathan in montana

i cant deny the right to wear body armor to those who wish to exercise it. no you cant....but where the heck did that come from mass hysteria & panic happens. merely saying the wrong words in large groups has caused trampling deaths in stampedes. totally unrelated to what i asked you for. show me any statistical data that substantiates your statement as any sense of probability. i dont think any of those who died that day died of being trampled. imagine how much tougher the polices job would be with thousands of alarmed and armed students running around. who should they shoot at you mean those same police who didnt respond for how many hours maybe its time for software to control guns heh. - -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nate trust me im on your side on this. no doubt sir. i wonder if it has anything to do with a .45 on the hip....even tho its unloaded.. i think its a different mind-set entirely. carry brings a keen sense of responsibility and awareness. you just cant afford to be stupid when you carry. in fact you have an obligation to avoid senseless trouble when you carry. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : beryl

nathan in montana wrote i cant deny the right to wear body armor to those who wish to exercise it. no you cant....but where the heck did that come from the armor is purely defensive. im not at increased risk if the class clowns sitting behind me wear it. if theyre carrying guns though they affect me and without my consent. maybe id be safer maybe not but why should they impose their decision on me mass hysteria & panic happens. merely saying the wrong words in large groups has caused trampling deaths in stampedes. totally unrelated to what i asked you for. show me any statistical data that substantiates your statement as any sense of probability. i dont think any of those who died that day died of being trampled. it isnt totally unrelated. its an example of people following the reactions of others around them. rather than hunt for statistics ill just agree that its improbable. improbable things will happen. imagine how much tougher the polices job would be with thousands of alarmed and armed students running around. who should they shoot at you mean those same police who didnt respond for how many hours i mean every campus police officer. maybe its time for software to control

From : napalmheart

snip again this type of shit is why i carry and have a ccw. snip as do i. for my sons 21st birthday present i paid the fee for his class and will also pay his permit fees. .

From : napalmheart

i dont have any clue as to why he pulled the .357 caliber out of thin air didnt specify magnum didnt specify a .357 sig which would have been the technically correct thing for a real gun handler to state and why he didnt just claim to own the holy grail of the large caliber for the short dicked the .454 casull. if you go to a gun shop and ask for a box of .357 caliber shells they will follow up with a question of what type as the .357 is not a generic shell such as a .38 caliber. steve hey i do happen to own a .454 casull taurus raging bull. no deficiencies here! ;^ there are a couple of more powerful rounds than the .454 on the market. the ..460 s&w and the .500 s&w. the penile impaired have moved on to those. ;^ i find the .454 to be fine for deer hunting and i can use .45 colt as a less powerful alternative if so desired. ken .

From : tom lawrence

clowns sitting behind me wear it. if theyre carrying guns though they affect me and without my consent. your consent your consent isnt needed for someone to avail themselves of their rights. unless youre from one of the few states that refuses to recognize these rights youve been in close proximity to more people than you know with a concealed weapon - and none of them needed your consent to do so. .

From : beryl

tom lawrence wrote clowns sitting behind me wear it. if theyre carrying guns though they affect me and without my consent. your consent your consent isnt needed for someone to avail themselves of their rights. then the vt gunman who purchased his gun legally was exercising his right to bring his gun on campus. got it. unless youre from one of the few states that refuses to recognize these rights youve been in close proximity to more people than you know with a concealed weapon - and none of them needed your consent to do so. rights granted by states and the u.s. constitution are two different animals. unless the constitution says otherwise i guess your redneck state govt can do whatever it wants. i live in a blue state. -- in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni .

From : tom lawrence

then the vt gunman who purchased his gun legally was exercising his right to bring his gun on campus. got it. yes his purchase was legal. his concealed carry of same was not legal as he did not possess a virginia concealed handgun permit. rights granted by states and the u.s. constitution are two different animals. correct. states should not be allowed to deprive citizens of rights guaranteed them by the usc. most states recognize this basic concept. sadly a few do not. unless the constitution says otherwise i guess your redneck state govt can do whatever it wants. my redneck state.... now thats funny. you are aware that i live in new jersey as ive posted here in this thread numerous times.... a state with some of the strictest gun control laws in the country and some of the highest murder rates per capita of that same country i know i cant figure it out either i live in a blue state. which one .

From : heatwave

a couple of beryl snippets says... youre suggesting an ideal scenario where one responsible person with a gun can do everything right. probably every gun enthusiast fantasizes that he could have been virginia techs hero. better than fantasizing the banning guns would end violence. is saving the lifes of inocent people that far removed from you mind then the vt gunman who purchased his gun legally was exercising his right to bring his gun on campus. got it. what right i see post after post of made up shit by you. clearly youre not firing on all cylinders if any. this beryl guy lives in lala land. no wonder he came to snomans try not to break it to fast. bfg .

From : beryl

miles wrote beryl wrote hey it looks like the amendments original author is on my team. some guy named james madison. you need to read more of madisons writings at the time. he was not an anti-federalist. the latter is who is on your team. i dont think there really was an original author. madison drafted it he probably had nice handwriting. antifederalists supported the proposal to amend the constitution with clearly-defined and enumerated rights to provide further constraints on the new government while opponents felt that by listing only certain rights other unlisted rights would fail to be protected. amidst this debate a compromise was reached and james madison drafted what ultimately would become the united states bill of rights and that was proposed to the congress on june 8 1789 but you can see again that the purpose was to constrain the federal govt. -- in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni .

From : beryl

on 25 apr 2007 131027 -0700 dale.prather@gmail.com wrote i have a dodge ram 1500 that wont shift out of neutral. regardless of where the shifter is it just sits there and revs up. i assume its stuck in neutral because im able to tow is on all four wheels. is this a common problem with dodges if so do you have any ideas of what it might be. i know at this point it could be a number of things but im hoping one of you know enough about dodges history and have an idea of what it could be. ill have more information to share tomorrow to assist us in the diagnosis. im just hoping its not a completely shot tranny. it was not a slow degradation of the tranny it just happened immediately. if anyone has any insight id love to hear it. ill post more info soon. thanks for your help dale is it 4x4 t-case in neutral .

From : ed h

when i was looking into a permit several years ago i found that plenty of counties do but you need to get a permit from each incorporated city in the county through which you plan to carry even if youre driving through on the interstate. the only way to legally transport a gun in california without a permit is unloaded in a locked case not within reach of any of the vehicles occupants and the ammunition not within the same locked case. kalifornia plenty of counties in your state issue ccw permits. do the county sheriffs call you for each one to get your consent .

From : steve b

kalifornia plenty of counties in your state issue ccw permits. do the county sheriffs call you for each one to get your consent i live in las vegas. it is a big megalopolis now with cities that border on each other. i am a permitee in nevada utah and florida. that allows me to carry in about 39 states. however even here where i live the laws are different in north las vegas henderson and boulder city. every one has its own laws regarding concealed carry and they supercede the state law and the regulations under which the local lvmpd issued the permit. so at times even if you are permitted you can be in violation of lots of local laws as you drive from town to town and county to county. it is impossible to know all the laws of all the places you go to at times such as traveling. steve .

From : tom lawrence

hard. i had a link to a website that gave all the states laws on hand gun carry. http//packing.org http//handgunlaw.us .

From : azwiley1

so at times even if you are permitted you can be in violation of lots of local laws as you drive from town to town and county to county. it is impossible to know all the laws of all the places you go to at times such as traveling. actually steve it is not impossible though i will admit it is pretty damn hard. i had a link to a website that gave all the states laws on hand gun carry. i found it because of the very reason you cited travel. i used to drive from az to ny annually and wanted to be able to have the pistol with me but found that once i crossed into ny i was screwed as if you dont have a permit you can not even transport. i would be happy to find that site for you if you like. .

From : miles

azwiley1 wrote actually steve it is not impossible though i will admit it is pretty damn hard. i had a link to a website that gave all the states laws on hand gun carry. i found it because of the very reason you cited travel. i used to drive from az to ny annually and wanted to be able to have the pistol with me but found that once i crossed into ny i was screwed as if you dont have a permit you can not even transport. i would be happy to find that site for you if you like. i think if one doesnt know the laws of the area theyre traveling then they shouldnt travel there or pack differently. theres always a few people that fail to do a little research and take their guns to mexico for instance. bad mistake if you get caught! .

From : Annonymous

on wed 25 apr 2007 182343 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote kalifornia plenty of counties in your state issue ccw permits. do the county sheriffs call you for each one to get your consent i live in las vegas. it is a big megalopolis now with cities that border on each other. i am a permitee in nevada utah and florida. that allows me to carry in about 39 states. however even here where i live the laws are different in north las vegas henderson and boulder city. every one has its own laws regarding concealed carry and they supercede the state law and the regulations under which the local lvmpd issued the permit. so at times even if you are permitted you can be in violation of lots of local laws as you drive from town to town and county to county. it is impossible to know all the laws of all the places you go to at times such as traveling. steve that is not a good idea at all. in my state a local jursdiction can give you more rights than state law but can not restrict you more than state law. i was in parhump nevada a year or two ago for a bit. it seemed that anyone could pretty much do whatever they wanted to there with guns. i loved the guy running for sheriff that drove around town with two cowboy guns on his hips. i did love the country too. we only had to drive about a mile to find a safe place to shoot. wide open country. very pretty. spent some time in north las vegas when i was training out on the nevada test site. north las vegas just didnt appeal to me. my trips into las vegas also left me unimpressed. my wife liked it because she loves to shop and obviously they have a lot of places to do that. she also liked the local architecture. but for me vegas was a bust. i have to admit i liked parhump. very isolated. i was trying to think of some way to say tard in my post but it just didnt work out but then i think i just did it anyway. sorry. .

From : azwiley1

azwiley1 wrote actually steve it is not impossible though i will admit it is pretty damn hard. i had a link to a website that gave all the states laws on hand gun carry. i found it because of the very reason you cited travel. i used to drive from az to ny annually and wanted to be able to have the pistol with me but found that once i crossed into ny i was screwed as if you dont have a permit you can not even transport. i would be happy to find that site for you if you like. i think if one doesnt know the laws of the area theyre traveling then they shouldnt travel there or pack differently. theres always a few people that fail to do a little research and take their guns to mexico for instance. bad mistake if you get caught! man i would rather take it to ny with me and advertise that i have it then go into mx with even one live round in the vehicle no weapon and be caught. .

From : miles

azwiley1 wrote man i would rather take it to ny with me and advertise that i have it then go into mx with even one live round in the vehicle no weapon and be caught. i believe you can take a gun to mexico if you plan to hunt but have to file for a permit inspection etc. when i have traveled through mexico i have been stopped at remote roadblocks and asked if i had weapons etc. from what i understand the locals there love these roadblocks around their cities as they did cut violent crimes. rough way to cut it though. ive never had trouble at these roadblocks and traveled through with ease but they are intimidating mostly rifle toting military guys. strange place but i have to travel there as my folks retired in mexico. .

From : steve b

azwiley1 wrote actually steve it is not impossible though i will admit it is pretty damn hard. i had a link to a website that gave all the states laws on hand gun carry. i found it because of the very reason you cited travel. i used to drive from az to ny annually and wanted to be able to have the pistol with me but found that once i crossed into ny i was screwed as if you dont have a permit you can not even transport. i would be happy to find that site for you if you like. laws change daily and state laws do not reflect county or municipal laws. i believe it would be impossible to compile the rules because by the time youre done theyve changed. i think if one doesnt know the laws of the area theyre traveling then they shouldnt travel there or pack differently. theres always a few people that fail to do a little research and take their guns to mexico for instance. bad mistake if you get caught! so if you take off on a trip in your motorhome you should know in advance the laws in every city town county and state youre going to be in no one has that much brain space. steve .

From : azwiley1

on apr 25 1111 pm steve b surdo2di...@neptune.com wrote azwiley1 wrote actually steve it is not impossible though i will admit it is pretty damn hard. i had a link to a website that gave all the states laws on hand gun carry. i found it because of the very reason you cited travel. i used to drive from az to ny annually and wanted to be able to have the pistol with me but found that once i crossed into ny i was screwed as if you dont have a permit you can not even transport. i would be happy to find that site for you if you like. laws change daily and state laws do not reflect county or municipal laws. i believe it would be impossible to compile the rules because by the time youre done theyve changed. the statement about state laws not reflecting county laws is not an accurate statement steve. as i am pretty familiar with the laws there ny for example the permits are issued via the individual counties niagra or erie lets say. though the permit is issued by say erie it is accepted and valid for the entire state as its a new york state permit. now i do understand what you are saying and do agree but i feel it is rather a blanket statement. i think if one doesn

From : azwiley1

they shouldnt travel there or pack differently. theres always a few people that fail to do a little research and take their guns to mexico for instance. bad mistake if you get caught! so if you take off on a trip in your motorhome you should know in advance the laws in every city town county and state youre going to be in no one has that much brain space. sure they do steve if they know how to use the internet. just as tom l. posted two links there are likely 100s more out there with more or less info. it doesnt take much time to find the info in your planning stages if you want too. . 222 334072 1177605761.968813.297560@n35g2000prd.googlegroups.com laws change daily and state laws do not reflect county or municipal laws. i believe it would be impossible to compile the rules because by the time youre done theyve changed. oh yeah forgot though the statement about changing laws is at least partially correct i seriously doubt that laws concerning carrying a hand gun change anywhere near that often. .

From : steve b

steve though i am not sure if it would fit your needs but these might be something worth looking into. i saw one this morning on the way into work being towed by a 6 banger nissan pathfinder with no issues. www.trailmanor.com the pathfinder has been retired to the utah house for grocery runs. the motor is weak weak weak. when we towed with it we had a burro trailer. this is a version of the scamp and casita trailers that u-haul had made for their rental fleet. they were fiberglass and weighed in at 2500#. they looked like an egg. they had a fridge stove 13500 btu ac solar panel water system lots of goodies on a small trailer. a friend of ours got it from u haul when he worked there. he wanted to get rid of it and sold it to us for $200. we used it for a year and found they were collectors items by trailer enthusiasts. we sold it on ebay for $4300. right now im looking for a toy hauler in the 26 range that will carry two atvs and max out at around 9000# unladen. there are lots of them on the market so ill do some investigation with rv.org and going and lo

From : miles

steve b wrote so if you take off on a trip in your motorhome you should know in advance the laws in every city town county and state youre going to be in no one has that much brain space. if you are going to pack a gun then yes you should know the laws regarding guns in vehicles in the states you are traveling through. .

From : beryl

azwiley1 wrote on apr 25 1111 pm steve b surdo2di...@neptune.com wrote azwiley1 wrote actually steve it is not impossible though i will admit it is pretty damn hard. i had a link to a website that gave all the states laws on hand gun carry. i found it because of the very reason you cited travel. i used to drive from az to ny annually and wanted to be able to have the pistol with me but found that once i crossed into ny i was screwed as if you dont have a permit you can not even transport. i would be happy to find that site for you if you like. laws change daily and state laws do not reflect county or municipal laws. i believe it would be impossible to compile the rules because by the time youre done theyve changed. the statement about state laws not reflecting county laws is not an accurate statement steve. as i am pretty familiar with the laws there ny for example the permits are issued via the individual counties niagra or erie lets say. though the permit is issued by say erie it is accepted and valid for the entire state as its a new york state permit. you got it backwards. state laws often reflect county laws but only because *county laws always reflect state laws*. they h

From : Annonymous

on fri 27 apr 2007 090137 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote theguy@whatever.net wrote actually steve you fit in well on this ng. youll argue about anything. stick around. actually guy im not arguing. im just trying to make the point that there are literally millions of laws in lots of small towns all over the us and none of us have the vast intellect and body of experience to know them all or to keep current on them no matter how many trips we make to nra.org. some will argue that they do but then loose credibility when they cant even spell correctly. g steve just saying i enjoy your discussions then. .

From : ed h

i knew you would find that site again. thanks. on apr 27 901 am steve b surdo2di...@neptune.com wrote the...@whatever.net wrote actually steve you fit in well on this ng. youll argue about anything. stick around. actually guy im not arguing. im just trying to make the point that there are literally millions of laws in lots of small towns all over the us and none of us have the vast intellect and body of experience to know them all or to keep current on them no matter how many trips we make to nra.org. some will argue that they do but then loose credibility when they cant even spell correctly. g steve actually steve again it is not that hard to find the information you say we cant know this is the site that i had refered too and if you take the time to read through it you will see as example new york lists the over all state laws and then goes on to list the individual county laws. now is this to say that it is 100% complete or 100 accurate i dont know but if you were unable to find the info you need on here i would say there is a problem with your eyes. http//www.packing.org/state/ .

From : steve b

steve b wrote so if you take off on a trip in your motorhome you should know in advance the laws in every city town county and state youre going to be in no one has that much brain space. if you are going to pack a gun then yes you should know the laws regarding guns in vehicles in the states you are traveling through. okay. do this. take a 3000 mile trip. plan all that out in advance researching each town county and state you will go through. let us know how long it takes to get ready for the trip. steve i guess you never read anything i have posted. i used to drive from az to ny once a year. total trip distance was 2283 miles close enough for you and i did exactly what you are asking to be done. how long it took me about a day to pack and about two days to find out the general state law for each of the states i drove through. im not sure why you seem to have such a problem with it. i dont have a problem with it. im sure that youre sure about the laws in the areas that you have traveled to. the united states is a very large place. laws vary immensely from place to place. in my own tip of southern nevada there are four different sets of laws in the same metropolitan area and that is within only one state and one county. to suggest that all laws in every state county municipality and unincorporated area of the united states can be monitored recorded updated and kept up with by any one individual is giving that individual a lot of credit. you found out the general law in each state that you drove through. what you dont seem to understand is that like here in nevada you can drive through a town in a state and that town requires totally different things of even ccf holders. such as weapon in trunk bullets in glove box weapon in locked box ammunition in separate locked box etc. i think that if you spent the days it would take to research every little town you went through or got off to get gas or hamburgers at that you might find that you were actually in violation of that jurisdictions gun laws. knowing the general laws of the state does not exempt you from following the laws of the two block street you might be on while dodging off the interstate for gas. and bubba those local barney fifes are notorious for generating income for their little burgs by snagging city boys who want to tell them all about how the laws are ..... in the city. our last ccf course was ten hours up from six for the first eight for the second. one added section was the changes in the three bordering municipalitiys laws that affect ccf holders of state permits while in those municipalities. so you can go to a class learn the last set of laws and still get nailed if the laws change before you get to a renewal class and learn the new ones. multiply that by 25884599 and you have an idea of why i say one size dont fit all ......... that general state rules dont always apply in all the small towns. thats not my problem but the thought that im trying to convey. steve .

From : miles

steve b wrote to suggest that all laws in every state county municipality and unincorporated area of the united states can be monitored recorded updated and kept up with by any one individual is giving that individual a lot of credit. youre exageratting the issue way overboard making it far more difficult that reality. you dont need to know every single vehicle gun law in every city county and state. only what the strictest is on your travel route. not that tough to find out for a given state. furthermore its only an issue if you have a need to only comply with in a bare minimal fashion. you found out the general law in each state that you drove through. what you dont seem to understand is that like here in nevada you can drive through a town in a state and that town requires totally different things of even ccf holders. such as weapon in trunk bullets in glove box weapon in locked box ammunition in separate locked box etc. exactly. go with the strictest state laws and youre fine for your trip. if you it is too tough for you to comply then dont take your gun. .

From : steve b

miles nope@nopers.com wrote its really not that difficult. if you keep your gun unloaded locked up not loose in the vehicle and a trigger lock youll be within the majority of state laws. and attitude is 99.9% of it too. having the gun inoperable and inaccessible and telling the officer about it within 30 seconds of the time he stops you speaks a lot for you. trying to sit there and argue the law in the state youre from versus the town youre in is a recipe for disaster. but then carrying an inoperable inaccessible defensive weapon is kind of an oxymoron too. steve .

From : steve b

steve b wrote so if you take off on a trip in your motorhome you should know in advance the laws in every city town county and state youre going to be in no one has that much brain space. if you are going to pack a gun then yes you should know the laws regarding guns in vehicles in the states you are traveling through. okay. do this. take a 3000 mile trip. plan all that out in advance researching each town county and state you will go through. let us know how long it takes to get ready for the trip. steve .

From : miles

steve b wrote okay. do this. take a 3000 mile trip. plan all that out in advance researching each town county and state you will go through. let us know how long it takes to get ready for the trip. been there done that. not very difficult to find out what the strictest laws are for a given state. thats all you need to know. if you cant figure it out then leave the gun at home. ignorance isnt the solution. .

From : azwiley1

steve b wrote so if you take off on a trip in your motorhome you should know in advance the laws in every city town county and state youre going to be in no one has that much brain space. if you are going to pack a gun then yes you should know the laws regarding guns in vehicles in the states you are traveling through. okay. do this. take a 3000 mile trip. plan all that out in advance researching each town county and state you will go through. let us know how long it takes to get ready for the trip. steve i guess you never read anything i have posted. i used to drive from az to ny once a year. total trip distance was 2283 miles close enough for you and i did exactly what you are asking to be done. how long it took me about a day to pack and about two days to find out the general state law for each of the states i drove through. im not sure why you seem to have such a problem with it. .

From : miles

azwiley1 wrote steve i guess you never read anything i have posted. i used to drive from az to ny once a year. total trip distance was 2283 miles close enough for you and i did exactly what you are asking to be done. how long it took me about a day to pack and about two days to find out the general state law for each of the states i drove through. im not sure why you seem to have such a problem with it. its really not that difficult. if you keep your gun unloaded locked up not loose in the vehicle and a trigger lock youll be within the majority of state laws. .

From : steve b

miles nope@nopers.com wrote youre exageratting the issue way overboard making it far more difficult that reality. you dont need to know every single vehicle gun law in every city county and state. only what the strictest is on your travel route. not that tough to find out for a given state. furthermore its only an issue if you have a need to only comply with in a bare minimal fashion. i have owned multiple motorhomes and travel trailers. i converse with a lot of people along the way. i have just heard too many stories from these people who were stopped for a tail light searched and either terribly inconvenienced and let go or terribly inconvenienced and let go lighter by different amounts of cash. im not basing my opinions on my own paranoia or personal thoughts. im basing it on quite a few stories i was told firsthand by people who lived them. you must be old enough to know that most policemen have it in their minds when they stop you whether or not theyre going to check you cite you or really give you a going over. and lots of times it has to do with things like theyre having a bad hair day or not getting any or a lot of things other than the actual situation at hand. you can get clear. you can get off. you can get a clear record. eventually. it just costs you a pretty good chunk of change. steve .

From : miles

steve b wrote but then carrying an inoperable inaccessible defensive weapon is kind of an oxymoron too. thats the law in many states. .

From : miles

steve b wrote i have just heard too many stories from these people who were stopped for a tail light safety stops is something far more common in the east than the west. there is no vehicle safety inspection here in az in order to get license tags for instance. its a rare day that a cop will pull someone over for bald tires busted windshield etc. i have heard this is pretty common in the east. .

From : Annonymous

on thu 26 apr 2007 211521 -0700 steve b surdo2diver@neptune.com wrote steve b wrote so if you take off on a trip in your motorhome you should know in advance the laws in every city town county and state youre going to be in no one has that much brain space. if you are going to pack a gun then yes you should know the laws regarding guns in vehicles in the states you are traveling through. okay. do this. take a 3000 mile trip. plan all that out in advance researching each town county and state you will go through. let us know how long it takes to get ready for the trip. steve i guess you never read anything i have posted. i used to drive from az to ny once a year. total trip distance was 2283 miles close enough for you and i did exactly what you are asking to be done. how long it took me about a day to pack and about two days to find out the general state law for each of the states i drove through. im not sure why you seem to have such a problem with it. i dont have a problem with it. im sure that youre sure about the laws in the areas that you have traveled to. the united states is a very large place. laws vary immensely from place to place. in my own tip of southern nevada there are four different sets of laws in the same metropolitan area and that is within only one state and one county. to suggest that all laws in every state county municipality and unincorporated area of the united states can be monitored recorded updated and kept up with by any one individual is giving that individual a lot of credit. you found out the general law in each state that you drove through. what you dont seem to understand is that like here in nevada you can drive through a town in a state and that town requires totally different things of even ccf holders. such as weapon in trunk bullets in glove box weapon in locked box ammunition in separate locked box etc. i think that if you spent the days it would take to research every little town you went through or got off to get gas or hamburgers at that you might find that you were actually in violation of that jurisdictions gun laws. knowing the general laws of the state does not exempt you from following the laws of the two block street you might be on while dodging off the interstate for gas. and bubba those local barney fifes are notorious for generating income for their little burgs by snagging city boys who want to tell them all about how the laws are ..... in the city. our last ccf course was ten hours up from six for the first eight for the second. one added section was the changes in the three bordering municipalitiys laws that affect ccf holders of state permits while in those municipalities. so you can go to a class learn the last set of laws and still get nailed if the laws change before you get to a renewal class and learn the new ones. multiply that by 25884599 and you have an idea of why i say one size dont fit all ......... that general state rules dont always apply in all the small towns. thats not my problem but the thought that im trying to convey. steve actually steve you fit in well on this ng. youll argue about anything. stick around. .

From : steve b

theguy@whatever.net wrote actually steve you fit in well on this ng. youll argue about anything. stick around. actually guy im not arguing. im just trying to make the point that there are literally millions of laws in lots of small towns all over the us and none of us have the vast intellect and body of experience to know them all or to keep current on them no matter how many trips we make to nra.org. some will argue that they do but then loose credibility when they cant even spell correctly. g steve .

From : azwiley1

on apr 27 901 am steve b surdo2di...@neptune.com wrote the...@whatever.net wrote actually steve you fit in well on this ng. youll argue about anything. stick around. actually guy im not arguing. im just trying to make the point that there are literally millions of laws in lots of small towns all over the us and none of us have the vast intellect and body of experience to know them all or to keep current on them no matter how many trips we make to nra.org. some will argue that they do but then loose credibility when they cant even spell correctly. g steve here tell me if this is spelt correctly screw you g gee i thought it was you that said to drop it .

From : azwiley1

on apr 27 901 am steve b surdo2di...@neptune.com wrote the...@whatever.net wrote actually steve you fit in well on this ng. youll argue about anything. stick around. actually guy im not arguing. im just trying to make the point that there are literally millions of laws in lots of small towns all over the us and none of us have the vast intellect and body of experience to know them all or to keep current on them no matter how many trips we make to nra.org. some will argue that they do but then loose credibility when they cant even spell correctly. g steve actually steve again it is not that hard to find the information you say we cant know this is the site that i had refered too and if you take the time to read through it you will see as example new york lists the over all state laws and then goes on to list the individual county laws. now is this to say that it is 100% complete or 100 accurate i dont know but if you were unable to find the info you need on here i would say there is a problem with your eyes. http//www.packing.org/state/ .

From : steve b

azwiley1 azwiley1@cox.net wrote now is this to say that it is 100% complete or 100 accurate i dont know but if you were unable to find the info you need on here i would say there is a problem with your eyes. laws courts and police officers dont operate on an i dont know basis. even if theyre wrong theyll take some sort of action. they dont accept i dont know as an answer either. on the one hand you say you researched the laws you traveled the territory youre certain about these things yet then on the other hand say i dont know. which is it steve .

From : azwiley1

azwiley1 azwiley1@cox.net wrote now is this to say that it is 100% complete or 100 accurate i dont know but if you were unable to find the info you need on here i would say there is a problem with your eyes. laws courts and police officers dont operate on an i dont know basis. even if theyre wrong theyll take some sort of action. they dont accept i dont know as an answer either. on the one hand you say you researched the laws you traveled the territory youre certain about these things yet then on the other hand say i dont know. which is it what the hell are you talking about you obviously have a read and/or comprehension problem again. my i dont know was directed at the site not the laws. you need to read more and jump less steve if you did you have understood what was written. either that or you need to be more concise in communicating your ideas. as an example i just read you obviously have a read and/or comprehension problem again. i do not understand what a read problem is. until you can write in a manner that concisely conveys your thoughts ideas and positions there is a small chance that i could continue to misconstrue what you write. it is obvious that you are not going to do that any time soon so i give up on you. you write as a sixth grader and i just dont get what it is you are saying. this is just one example of your writing style and i choose not to participate any longer. first off i dont ever recall asking you for any help with anything. so why you took it upon yourself to try and teach me anything is beyond me. second off i see we are back to your double standards. steve dont be a fucking idiot you knew exactly what i meant so what i mis-spelt it. i do write in a manner that concisely conveys my thoughts you are just being a douche bag that tells me and everyone else to drop it then you continue on whenever it fits your needs. im sorry that you are so anal you couldnt even fit a lump of coal up your ass but you really need to get the fuck off your self-righteous horse. you are not the group spelling teacher you are not the groups english teacher so get over it and yourself. as to you not participating any longer good! maybe we will all get a break from your egotistical i am better then you smug attitude. here i was trying to provide you with information that you claim doesnt exist that you cant find etc. here i provide you a link that i know you did not look at that proves that anyone can find more information about ccw laws in all the states that you claim could not be done yet you resort to this shit again. you sir are a hypocritical ass! you cant even accept that i proved you partially wrong about planning a trip covering 3000 miles and i did it in a manner of minutes. .

From : azwiley1

youre very welcome ed. i hope that you and anyone else reading this thread with any interest and had the common sense to actually look at the link will find it useful. contrary to what one pompous ass thinks no where did i ever state that i knew every law in every jurisdiction i simply stated as did a few others that his claims of not being able to find the information is pure b.s. anyone smart enough to read the info on the link would plainly see that the info is broken down by states and includes everything from what other states permits they honor to travel requirements to individual counties again which we have been told by steve couldnt be known additional laws. now please feel free to let me know what it is about my writings that you can not understand as according to one self-righteous pompous individual i have an inability in writing speaking and communicating effectively. i knew you would find that site again. thanks. on apr 27 901 am steve b surdo2di...@neptune.com wrote the...@whatever.net wrote actually steve you fit in well on this ng. youll argue about anything. stick around. actually guy im not arguing. im just trying to make the point that there are literally millions of laws in lots of small towns all over the us and none of us have the vast intellect and body of experience to know them all or to keep current on them no matter how many trips we make to nra.org. some will argue that they do but then loose credibility when they cant even spell correctly. g steve actually steve again it is not that hard to find the information you say we cant know this is the site that i had refered too and if you take the time to read through it you will see as example new york lists the over all state laws and then goes on to list the individual county laws. now is this to say that it is 100% complete or 100 accurate i dont know but if you were unable to find the info you need on here i would say there is a problem with your eyes. http//www.packing.org/state/ .

From : azwiley1

azwiley1 azwiley1@cox.net wrote now is this to say that it is 100% complete or 100 accurate i dont know but if you were unable to find the info you need on here i would say there is a problem with your eyes. laws courts and police officers dont operate on an i dont know basis. even if theyre wrong theyll take some sort of action. they dont accept i dont know as an answer either. on the one hand you say you researched the laws you traveled the territory youre certain about these things yet then on the other hand say i dont know. which is it what the hell are you talking about you obviously have a read and/or comprehension problem again. my i dont know was directed at the site not the laws. you need to read more and jump less steve if you did you have understood what was written. .

From : steve b

azwiley1 azwiley1@cox.net wrote now is this to say that it is 100% complete or 100 accurate i dont know but if you were unable to find the info you need on here i would say there is a problem with your eyes. laws courts and police officers dont operate on an i dont know basis. even if theyre wrong theyll take some sort of action. they dont accept i dont know as an answer either. on the one hand you say you researched the laws you traveled the territory youre certain about these things yet then on the other hand say i dont know. which is it what the hell are you talking about you obviously have a read and/or comprehension problem again. my i dont know was directed at the site not the laws. you need to read more and jump less steve if you did you have understood what was written. either that or you need to be more concise in communicating your ideas. as an example i just read you obviously have a read and/or comprehension problem again. i do not understand what a read problem is. until you can write in a manner that concisely conveys your thoughts ideas and positions there is a small chance that i could continue to misconstrue what you write. it is obvious that you are not going to do that any time soon so i give up on you. you write as a sixth grader and i just dont get what it is you are saying. this is just one example of your writing style and i choose not to participate any longer. good luck in your life pursuits. now say goodbye gracie. steve .

From : ed h

with all due respect steve. one as intelligent as yourself should be able to use the context in which another writes to interpret what the other means. because you are retired at 58 either you have been lucky or smart and hard working enough to amass sufficient wealth to retire at an early age. personnally i dont believe in luck therefore i assume you are an intelligent hard worker. you can stick to your argument that because another doesnt always use proper grammar spelling and punctuation you dont understand what the other is trying to convey but i think you realize you have lost the debate based on logic therefore you rely on the language barrier argument as a means to deny your logic is questionable. many positions in this tread have merit. yours being ignorant of the law is no excuse for breaking the law and the internet is not a sufficient source of information one which i concur with and others taking reasonable measures to stay within the intent of the law even if falling outside of the letter of the law are examples. it occurs to me that one way to stay within the letter of the law is prior to travelling through a jurisdiction call them i dont know of a jurisdiction which doesnt publish their contact information and ask what are the current laws or at least what are the changes to the law as of the last date one knew them to be. furthermore your example of being forthright with all law enforcement personnel you encounter makes a lot of sense. i have been stopped for legitimate reasons ranging from a burned out turn indicator to speeding in excess of 25 mph over the limit to suspected dui and more often than not i get a warning and sometimes an explaination of the law i was violating because i was courteous and honest with the cop. i wonder if some the stories others have told you included the whole truth. azwiley1 azwiley1@cox.net wrote now is this to say that it is 100% complete or 100 accurate i dont know but if you were unable to find the info you need on here i would say there is a problem with your eyes. laws courts and police officers dont operate on an i dont know basis. even if theyre wrong theyll take some sort of action. they dont accept i dont know as an answer either. on the one hand you say you researched the laws you traveled the territory youre certain about these things yet then on the other hand say i dont know. which is it what the hell are you talking about you obviously have a read and/or comprehension problem again. my i dont know was directed at the site not the laws. you need to read more and jump less steve if you did you have understood what was written. either that or you need to be more concise in communicating your ideas. as an example i just read you obviously have a read and/or comprehension problem again. i do not understand what a read problem is. until you can write in a manner that concisely conveys your thoughts ideas and positions there is a small chance that i could continue to misconstrue what you write. it is obvious that you are not going to do that any time soon so i give up on you. you write as a sixth grader and i just dont get what it is you are saying. this is just one example of your writing style and i choose not to participate any longer. good luck in your life pursuits. now say goodbye gracie. steve .

From : steve b

with all due respect steve. one as intelligent as yourself should be able to use the context in which another writes to interpret what the other means. because you are retired at 58 either you have been lucky or smart and hard working enough to amass sufficient wealth to retire at an early age. personnally i dont believe in luck therefore i assume you are an intelligent hard worker. you can stick to your argument that because another doesnt always use proper grammar spelling and punctuation you dont understand what the other is trying to convey but i think you realize you have lost the debate based on logic therefore you rely on the language barrier argument as a means to deny your logic is questionable. many positions in this tread have merit. yours being ignorant of the law is no excuse for breaking the law and the internet is not a sufficient source of information one which i concur with and others taking reasonable measures to stay within the intent of the law even if falling outside of the letter of the law are examples. it occurs to me that one way to stay within the letter of the law is prior to travelling through a jurisdiction call them i dont know of a jurisdiction which doesnt publish their contact information and ask what are the current laws or at least what are the changes to the law as of the last date one knew them to be. furthermore your example of being forthright with all law enforcement personnel you encounter makes a lot of sense. i have been stopped for legitimate reasons ranging from a burned out turn indicator to speeding in excess of 25 mph over the limit to suspected dui and more often than not i get a warning and sometimes an explaination of the law i was violating because i was courteous and honest with the cop. i wonder if some the stories others have told you included the whole truth. think what you will mr. h. i am just done with arguing with a twit who cant understand the fact that i dont believe that he knows every law in every burg and small town in the united states. although he continues to assert that he does. i cannot expect that he can assimilate or absorb the sites and cites let alone the logic and discussions posted by myself or others if he cannot conduct basic conversational english in a relaxed atmosphere such as this forum. any time anyone bests him he launches into a childish profane rant. i need not prove anything about myself to you or anyone else. ive had a rough and tumble life been on many adventures made and lost more than one fortune made some brilliant moves made some absolutely dumb moves which brings me to the point i am today. i am retired live very comfortably and have enough to do so for the next hundred years at this pace. i spend different seasons in multiple states. as for my forthrightness about my law enforcement experiences and my truthfulness again i have no need to explain anything. let me just say that i pass very easily through multiple jurisdictions within the nearly two million people i live among because of my qualifications certifications commissions and network associations. plus i do live 100% within the law and that helps a lot. i do not fear being stopped by the authorities and havent been stopped in nine years. they either see my vehicular id and dont stop me or see my personal id and the stop is over with a quick id check. or a quick ticket as was the case nine years ago when i bumped a guy who was riding in my blind spot with my motorhome. the guy sure was pissed that i knew the traffic officer and that we were joking around while he was writing me a ticket. i guess he wanted the officer to beat me with his nightstick. the officer said to me you know i have to scratch you. write me a ticket and the guy i hit insisted on an explanation on what that meant. the traffic officer politely explained then asked the man to go sit in his car. life is good. hows things in your neck of the woods .

From : ed h

life is good. hows things in your neck of the woods good. thanks for asking. .