diesel mileage (Mike Simmons)
From : jerry
Q: mike simmons wrote my stock 03 dr 2500 qc 4x2 w/48re and 3.73ls ra gets 20 mpg unladen combination city/highway and 11.5 mpg towing 8k travel trailer. those are real world figures. mike mike i got a question for you. all the dealers in my area cant tell me just what is the difference in the california equipped diesel and the other 49 states. do you know if there is a major difference that affects performance and power in the california dodge diesel compared to the other 49 states and if so would it be worth it to change out the ecm jerry .
Replies:
From : tom lawrence
however i cannot find evidence of this in the fsm. proof either way would be appreciated. proof well your honor... . its like this http//www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/products/dodgeram/faq/answers.cfmuuid=00036766-da2c-1e30-8ddb80c4a8f00000 what did we do to make the ho engine 305 horsepower and 555 lb-ft torque first we beefed up components such as the pistons to handle this power level. we use gallery-cooled pistons which receive an oil spray to for cooler temperature and longer life. then we modified software to create the greater horsepower and torque while staying within all engine and driveline parameters. .
From : max340
actually i never assumed it was a maintenance item. some manufacturers have their ecus programmed to automatically illuminate the check engine light at a preprogrammed mileage in order to get the owner to get it into the dealer for some not necessarily required repair such as a catalytic converter or other item. cats dont necessarily go bad at a particular mileage and figured if that was what the deal was then i can prevent unnecessary expenses at the dealer. that was what i assumed. -- ------------------------------------------------------------ laszlo almasi carolina watercraft works inc. raleigh nc 27604 919-212-2555 loballeng@mindspring.com we all have our ghosts...take care of yours my plate is full carolina watercraft works inc. wrote im having a battle of wits with an unarmed combatant. there was no intention of a slam if thats the way you took it. however you did post that the check engine light was on and you thought or more appropriately assumed it was a maintenance check requirement. also ill remind you that you did ask what maintenance the check engine light might be indicating. if you did have a maintenance schedule light reminder some cars do then the information would be in your book. if you dont have the reminder the maintenance schedule is still in the book. hmmmmmmm maybe your combatants dont need to be armed. jerry .
From : roy
on sat 19 jun 2004 195909 gmt denny wddodge@woh.rr.com wrote ok now things are making sense. so am i judged not guilty it all depends on what kind of seats you have in the truck. need i say more vbg denny i was thinking of ordering rabbit skin ones... *eg* mac mac after your little session with red im just a little concerned about what you do with the ears on those bunny seat covers.. bg denny ya figure he might be after yours next g roy .
From : denny
ok now things are making sense. so am i judged not guilty it all depends on what kind of seats you have in the truck. need i say more vbg denny .
From : denny
on sat 19 jun 2004 195909 gmt denny wddodge@woh.rr.com wrote ok now things are making sense. so am i judged not guilty it all depends on what kind of seats you have in the truck. need i say more vbg denny i was thinking of ordering rabbit skin ones... *eg* mac mac after your little session with red im just a little concerned about what you do with the ears on those bunny seat covers.. bg denny ya figure he might be after yours next g roy hell never find me out here in the vast wastelands of ohio.. g denny .
From : jerry
tom lawrence wrote other 49 states. do you know if there is a major difference that affects performance and power in the california dodge diesel compared to the other 49 states and if so would it be worth it to change out the ecm prior to january 04 things looked like this non-ca-emissions states standard output engine was 250hp 460lb.ft. high output engine was 305hp/555lb.ft. from mid 02 to early 03 the ho was only available with the nv5600 6spd trans - the so came with the 47re 4spd auto or the nv4500 5spd stick. for 03.5 the ho was also available with the 48re 4spd. auto. for ca-emissions states only the so engine was available at 235hp/460lb.ft. with either an nv4500 5spd. manual or the 47re 4spd. auto. since january 04 the 50-state emissions-legal cummins 600 is the only available engine rated at 325hp/600lb.ft. now and ecm change cant turn a pre-04.5 cali. so into an ho. the ho engine used different pistons and also had piston oil jets to shoot oil into the underside of the pistons to cool them. however an ecm change can take you from the 235/460 output to the 250/460 output. technically you could run an ho ecm on an so engine - it wouldnt know the difference but the engine wasnt designed for that amount of power. the question is is 15hp worth the cost of a whole new cummins ecm if your concern is maintaining the engine warranty then maybe its worth it... but there are cheaper ways to add more power safely to a ca engine. another possibility to consider is that the 03s used both a cummins ecm and a dodge pcm. since the pcm contains the vin of the vehicle which identifies the type of engine its possible the pcm will be upset if it sees an ecm other than what its expecting. i dont know this for a fact - but its a possibility. actually what i have is a 1999 bought in california and i know the difference in the hp/output but i was trying to figure out why. the only thing i could come up with was the ecm for my year california model was retarding the timing a little more but i didnt know if there was anything else different. if that is the case and that is all there is then a new ecm wouldnt be worth it to me. since i havent beefed up the automatic i have i may get a van aaken which would be about all i need for the towing of the boat and light hauling. being a 4x4 my mileage kind of stinks for a diesel at about 16-18 any ways. jerry .
From : max340
and also had piston oil jets to shoot oil into the underside of the pistons to cool them. from my experience all of the diesels diesels in general as well have oil jets for piston crown cooling as it is almost a necessity. this is because of the temps involved with the piston materials used. however i cannot find evidence of this in the fsm. proof either way would be appreciated. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .
From : tom lawrence
other 49 states. do you know if there is a major difference that affects performance and power in the california dodge diesel compared to the other 49 states and if so would it be worth it to change out the ecm prior to january 04 things looked like this non-ca-emissions states standard output engine was 250hp 460lb.ft. high output engine was 305hp/555lb.ft. from mid 02 to early 03 the ho was only available with the nv5600 6spd trans - the so came with the 47re 4spd auto or the nv4500 5spd stick. for 03.5 the ho was also available with the 48re 4spd. auto. for ca-emissions states only the so engine was available at 235hp/460lb.ft. with either an nv4500 5spd. manual or the 47re 4spd. auto. since january 04 the 50-state emissions-legal cummins 600 is the only available engine rated at 325hp/600lb.ft. now and ecm change cant turn a pre-04.5 cali. so into an ho. the ho engine used different pistons and also had piston oil jets to shoot oil into the underside of the pistons to cool them. however an ecm change can take you from the 235/460 output to the 250/460 output. technically you could run an ho ecm on an so engine - it wouldnt know the difference but the engine wasnt designed for that amount of power. the question is is 15hp worth the cost of a whole new cummins ecm if your concern is maintaining the engine warranty then maybe its worth it... but there are cheaper ways to add more power safely to a ca engine. another possibility to consider is that the 03s used both a cummins ecm and a dodge pcm. since the pcm contains the vin of the vehicle which identifies the type of engine its possible the pcm will be upset if it sees an ecm other than what its expecting. i dont know this for a fact - but its a possibility. .
From : mike simmons
mike simmons wrote my stock 03 dr 2500 qc 4x2 w/48re and 3.73ls ra gets 20 mpg unladen combination city/highway and 11.5 mpg towing 8k travel trailer. those are real world figures. mike mike i got a question for you. all the dealers in my area cant tell me just what is the difference in the california equipped diesel and the other 49 states. do you know if there is a major difference that affects performance and power in the california dodge diesel compared to the other 49 states and if so would it be worth it to change out the ecm jerry jerry toms post pretty much summed it up afaik. to be truthful since i dont see a lot any vehicles with california emissions i am not up to speed on the differences. toms info is correct from what i gather from the sales literature but there may be more technical details too. he is also correct that the big difference between the 03 ho and the cal version is the oil cooled pistons and slightly different innards. mike .
From : jerry
mike simmons wrote mike simmons wrote my stock 03 dr 2500 qc 4x2 w/48re and 3.73ls ra gets 20 mpg unladen combination city/highway and 11.5 mpg towing 8k travel trailer. those are real world figures. mike mike i got a question for you. all the dealers in my area cant tell me just what is the difference in the california equipped diesel and the other 49 states. do you know if there is a major difference that affects performance and power in the california dodge diesel compared to the other 49 states and if so would it be worth it to change out the ecm jerry jerry toms post pretty much summed it up afaik. to be truthful since i dont see a lot any vehicles with california emissions i am not up to speed on the differences. toms info is correct from what i gather from the sales literature but there may be more technical details too. he is also correct that the big difference between the 03 ho and the cal version is the oil cooled pistons and slightly different innards. thanks to you both ...................... the ho wasnt a concern considering my model year but at least they didnt put a cat on it that year. jerry .
From : max340
proof well your honor... . its like this great we have proof that the ho has them. prove to me that the b series the isb and the isbe dont have them. my take is that this is marketing hype from cummins. yeah i know im a hard sell. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .
From : max340
standard-output engines continue to use saddle jets located in the upper main bearing saddles to spray the connecting rods and the pistons. ok now things are making sense. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .
From : tom lawrence
we hate the damn cup holder.... too big for just 2 cups and always squeaked when it was down... i built a center console out of scrap paneling that sits on the hump and wedges between the seat & cup holder part of the dash so i can remove it if we ever have a middle passenger.. its just a flat top box with non-slip tool box mat on top and a $5 wally world between the cushions cup holder thing... the main reason that i built it is that it was tough to find a place to mount a brake controller under the dash... and once it was mounted there was no place at all to put a cb or power inverter so theyre mounted to the box... mac can you e-mail a picture of that to me right now i have my cb mounted to an l shaped piece of 3/4 plywood. the horizontal bottom section lays flat on the floor and slides under the center seat section and the radio is mounted to the front side of the vertical section. it works well but there is no room on it for anything else like a brake controller or power inverter. my setup does clear the cupholder when its down but it puts my coffee cup within spill range of the cb. ken un-munge my e-mail address to reply. .
From : denny
on sat 19 jun 2004 195909 gmt denny wddodge@woh.rr.com wrote ok now things are making sense. so am i judged not guilty it all depends on what kind of seats you have in the truck. need i say more vbg denny i was thinking of ordering rabbit skin ones... *eg* mac mac after your little session with red im just a little concerned about what you do with the ears on those bunny seat covers.. bg denny .
From : roy
ok now things are making sense. so am i judged not guilty it all depends on what kind of seats you have in the truck. need i say more vbg denny ya had to go there didnt ya you know how sensitive some of these folks are about their seats. bfg roy somehow i dont think its the seats in their trucks that they are so sensitive about.. how are things on the ec i heard you were out west taking lessons with red and mac. are you an expert now vbfg denny you should know by now that i-95 is as far west as i care to go. you on the other hand being in sorta the mid west probably did manage to hook up with the machine and its owners. i understand that it was to designed to handle the three of you as well as some of your newer best friends. id bet a good time was had by all. hope you didnt loose any rabbit fur during your session. gbmfg hope you brought oxygen for the two old duffers. hate to hear of them flaming out.g roy .
From : mike simmons
ok now things are making sense. so am i judged not guilty it all depends on what kind of seats you have in the truck. need i say more vbg denny whoa!! ;^ m .
From : roy
ok now things are making sense. so am i judged not guilty it all depends on what kind of seats you have in the truck. need i say more vbg denny ya had to go there didnt ya you know how sensitive some of these folks are about their seats. bfg roy .
From : denny
ok now things are making sense. so am i judged not guilty it all depends on what kind of seats you have in the truck. need i say more vbg denny ya had to go there didnt ya you know how sensitive some of these folks are about their seats. bfg roy somehow i dont think its the seats in their trucks that they are so sensitive about.. how are things on the ec i heard you were out west taking lessons with red and mac. are you an expert now vbfg denny .
From : mac davis
on sat 19 jun 2004 195909 gmt denny wddodge@woh.rr.com wrote ok now things are making sense. so am i judged not guilty it all depends on what kind of seats you have in the truck. need i say more vbg denny i was thinking of ordering rabbit skin ones... *eg* mac .
From : mac davis
on sun 20 jun 2004 161026 gmt denny wddodge@woh.rr.com wrote i was thinking of ordering rabbit skin ones... *eg* mac mac after your little session with red im just a little concerned about what you do with the ears on those bunny seat covers.. bg denny wtf did you think they made k&n filters out of mac .
From : mac davis
on sun 20 jun 2004 165549 gmt roy roy@home.net wrote i was thinking of ordering rabbit skin ones... *eg* mac mac after your little session with red im just a little concerned about what you do with the ears on those bunny seat covers.. bg denny ya figure he might be after yours next g roy only if it was for the 60 part of the 60/40 seat from what youve said about the furry one bro.. mac .
From : tom lawrence
ok now things are making sense. so am i judged not guilty .