Your Power at the Pump

From : jon moser

Q: there is an amazing affordable and easy to use fuel catalyst that is just being introduced to the market. merely as a customer you can save significant money. if you want to go a step beyond you can make money helping others save money using a simple referral process. check it out at http//www.jonnymo.myextremeresearch.com/40k/enviromax.asp if you would like to have a handy fuel mileage calculator in ms excel format free for the asking you can request it by going to http//home.earthlink.net/jonnymo1/ . .

Replies:

From : mike simmons

...........and even with a finite population on the planet there is never a shortage of idiots... but tell me why all the idiots are located in ohio........... denny denny they are not! since ohio is so close to missouri a few have migrated here..... thanks a bunch! mike .

From : mac davis

on thu 26 aug 2004 014645 gmt denny wddodge@woh.rr.com wrote ...........and even with a finite population on the planet there is never a shortage of idiots... but tell me why all the idiots are located in ohio........... denny centralized hub or maybe likes do attract mac .

From : denny

...........and even with a finite population on the planet there is never a shortage of idiots... but tell me why all the idiots are located in ohio........... denny denny they are not! since ohio is so close to missouri a few have migrated here..... thanks a bunch! mike well we want out idiots back!! we have cultivated a superior strain of stupidity into our idiots that we just dont share with anybody...... denny .

From : jon moser

maybe i just dont understand the math but if you have so many co-partners and co-co-partners etc. and you make money on every one of their sales the co-partners at the bottom of the pyramid must have to sell the product at about 10 times the price of those in the middle. its all academic though since i cant see anyone except the mentally challanged accepting the offer to buy into the scheme. dddd the compensation plan looked good to me when i read it but i do not have an extensive background with this type of business model. my attitude the most important guage is that enviromaxplus work for consumers as claimed. if it does the money will take care of itself. if it doesnt the best financial blueprint in the world will not make any difference. what i do know is that extreme research has made the commitment to pay out about 40% of gross revenues to those in the field doing the referring and selling. in comparison they indicate that the rates in the multilevel marketing industry range from 20 to 26%. there are better sources than me to get a fix on the particulars and the implications. anyone can go to the web address shown below and review the comp plan. or a person can go to the same page and listen in on one of their live online meetings held every monday tuesday wednesday and thursday evening. they last about 30 minutes. immediately afterwards there are phone conferences - 1-212-990-8000 pin code 6175# - when any and all questions will be taken. http//www.jonnymo.myextremeresearch.com .

From : transurgeon

...........and even with a finite population on the planet there is never a shortage of idiots... but tell me why all the idiots are located in ohio........... denny denny they are not! since ohio is so close to missouri a few have migrated here..... thanks a bunch! only a few...the majority of the emigrants stopped here in il .

From : denny

on thu 26 aug 2004 014645 gmt denny wddodge@woh.rr.com wrote ...........and even with a finite population on the planet there is never a shortage of idiots... but tell me why all the idiots are located in ohio........... denny centralized hub or maybe likes do attract that has been proven in california..... g denny .

From : steve carolinabreezehvac

steve@carolinabreezehvac steve@removethis.carolinabreezehvac.com wrote i knew it.. the spin starts... the answer was there...i cant help it if you cant comprehend shit. now just back on out like a good troll. oh...and if one of the local stations agrees to this i will sweeten the deal... if it works and we all know it wont i will appologize on the station for calling you a fucking snake oil salesman...hows that now...you want to spin that no you appear to be doing the spinning quite well under your own power. you dont need any help from me. too bad that you resort to profanities and insults. profanities are that only if the person calling them that is slightly prudish to start with. altho it does beat lies and scams does it not still waiting on that fax i asked for.. .

From : steve carolinabreezehvac

well then best that you just shut up and let him line up the test im sure hell get it done after all he has a full-time business to run too mr. transurgeon it shouldnt make any difference whether i shut up or not as to whether your boy is able to line up his one - or five - tv stations for this test were talking about. first of all i am not your boy or anyones in here. lets get that clear off jump street....i dont resort to the selling of promises and lies to attempt to make a living...or even a few extra bux by selling ethanol and calling it a miracle. as the businessman that you say he is he should be smart enough to prioritize his time knowing that the value of the exposure gained would serve his enterprise quite well. i do indeed and i find it amazing that i have been waiting what 3 days now for the magic fax i asked for from you...or are you not able to produce the information requested in a timely fashion are you nothing but a cog in the machine and not able to produce and represent maxim lc in a fashion that would be deemed legal particularly after some of the claims being touted by others selling your product ie up to 80% reduction in emmissions oh...and as far as that claim goes i have full legal access to a state approved and certified emissions machine...so it may well come down to simply calling the parent company ordering a bottle and using it according to directions to test one out... altho it gets comfusing about the refund policy for the product...as there are two versions of it on the same companies websites...quite odd...and in some states quite illegal. also the msds sheet on the product is even more interesting...it claims that up to 99% of the product is ethanol....with as little as 1% being apatented catalyst the us patent website didnt return a patent number or a name for the inventor of this.....even more odd....perhaps for the sake of arguement there was a glitch in the system and it simply was not working correctly..... at any rate i have real customers waiting on real parts and real results. should you be able to produce the information requested a few days ago and get that information faxed over i will continue what i was doing...in the meantime i have a promise of increased savings and reduced fuel consumption to keep.... oh...thats replacing an old furnace with a new 94%afue unit...and its got not only the epas energy star rating good housekeepings seal of approval but it also meets or exceeds ashrae 90.1 standards...oh...and its by a real fortune 500 company...and its gonna be put in for about half of what the next lowest bidder put out... now...until i get that fax i dont want to step on anyones legal toes...so....waiting.... .

From : mac davis

on thu 26 aug 2004 161406 gmt denny wddodge@woh.rr.com wrote on thu 26 aug 2004 014645 gmt denny wddodge@woh.rr.com wrote ...........and even with a finite population on the planet there is never a shortage of idiots... but tell me why all the idiots are located in ohio........... denny centralized hub or maybe likes do attract that has been proven in california..... g denny good point! must be why there are so few idiots out here... they cant find their way through the midwest... mac .

From : steve carolinabreezehvac

on august 23 2004 you implied that you had a television station ready to test the enviromaxplus product. later on august 23 you said that you were . . . working out the details with a station right now. shortly afterwards on that same date you said that you had 4 stations in your area not to mention an additional one in california that were interested in doing the test. i sure did and until i get what *i* asked for you can figure out for yourself that it might be one of over 100 station in the tristate area... reading all of these changing conditions it was my decision not to bother the company with your request for any proof of insurance until you came through with the details that i initially requested regarding the one - or now apparently the several - television stations that you said you were lining up. in other words you know there is a big chance you will look like a fool. and you now want to spin it.. now you try to make a big issue out of not receiving a fax. interesting sidenote for everyone reading this you never even provided me with a fax number. any idiot can find my fax number...its real simple...its like....duh dood...on the website and after i asked for the fax i was waiting for you to show a little common sense and go the website that many other have found without being told...since its all right here in front of you and send it over with the information... i take that as a no...you cant get that information... especially after all of this blather given your clear bias against the product be assured that i will only conduct an evaluation in which you participate with a third party like a tv station that will ensure an adequate oversight of the test. if you do ever recruit a tv station by the way the product will be shipped to them not you. and if the test is ever done it will be ordered through maxim lc with a clear cut understanding of the claims you have made.. bottom line the balls still in your court pal. bullshit...but since you say that...the fax number is on the website....send it on or get gone... would you have a problem with the state attorney generals office getting involved just curious since i have read this and offered this in a state that looks really hard at wild ass claims... tell ya what...dont even bother answering that...if we run the test and it fails the results will be sent to them anyway...oh..you want their website information too try google. damn you are a dense one...hey man..i got a bridge in arizona for you to go sell... .

From : denny

jon my curiosity got the best of me so i checked out www.emailanywhere.com and your message to me was there but never got to me. who knows what happened..... denny jon who knows what happened but i never received it. denny denny your message got a response shortly after i received it on 082104 at 1026am mst via the jonmosero@msn.com account. if you did not get it im sorry but i did answer you. below is my record of the send. ======================================= denny thanks for your interest. yesterday another gentleman named mike indicated that he would take the sample and i let him know - public posting within the dodge trucks forum - that he could have it. if that doesnt work out ill be happy to send the fuel catalyst to you especially because its obvious that you pay attention to your vehicle and its mileage. so lets see what happens. best regards jon ----- original message ----- from denny sent saturday august 21 2004 956 am to jon moser subject re your power at the pump jon if nobody in the ng takes you up on the offer ill give it a try and post the results with your permission. it will be going in a 95 caravan with a 3.3l engine 95000 miles and is in great shape. i use it as my work vehicle and in the last 1800 miles has averaged 20.3 mpg. let me know what you want to do. denny dmetzger2@woh.rr.com .

From : denny

roy wrote steve what website im giving the guy a break cause he really is trying. you keep saying website website wouldnt it be easier to just post the number or email it to him he says hes sending me product to test and i will. you should do the same and not be such a jerk about it. wtf!! this salesman cant find steves # htf is he going to stay in business heres the fax# 336-853-3064 you guys are giving this bs too much credence imho. but it is your time. roy naw the guy is right roy steve issued a challenge and his bluff was called and now instead of gracefully backing out and the latter is what he will do in the end he is trying to run circles. sure his numbers are on the web site but the challenge and acceptance was issued here in this group and if he was serious he would have simply posted the number upon request. instead he is even resorting now saying gee golly im going to get the state attorney generals office involved as if they would really give a shit in a simple side challenge on a group. no steve issued the challenge to test the product bluff called now wants out doing a typical steve bs spin. jerry the other side of this coin is that i was the one that e-mailed jon direct saying that i would also try a sample and post the results. i have not yet even got an acknowledgement of the e-mail. i dont think jon has any intension of making good his side of the wager either. but he did get a certain amount of free advertisement from this thread in any case. denny .

From : jerry

steve@carolinabreezehvac wrote there is no spin on my side jerry altho you would love there to be. i dont care if you spin or not ........... just call it like i see it. if that bothers you oh well.......... jerry .

From : mgg

steve what website im giving the guy a break cause he really is trying. you keep saying website website wouldnt it be easier to just post the number or email it to him he says hes sending me product to test and i will. you should do the same and not be such a jerk about it. --mike steve@carolinabreezehvac steve@removethis.carolinabreezehvac.com wrote on august 23 2004 you implied that you had a television station ready to test the enviromaxplus product. later on august 23 you said that you were . . . working out the details with a station right now. shortly afterwards on that same date you said that you had 4 stations in your area not to mention an additional one in california that were interested in doing the test. i sure did and until i get what *i* asked for you can figure out for yourself that it might be one of over 100 station in the tristate area... reading all of these changing conditions it was my decision not to bother the company with your request for any proof of insurance until you came through with the details that i initially requested regarding the one - or now apparently the several - television stations that you said you were lining up. in other words you know there is a big chance you will look like a fool. and you now want to spin it.. now you try to make a big issue out of not receiving a fax. interesting sidenote for everyone reading this you never even provided me with a fax number. any idiot can find my fax number...its real simple...its like....duh dood...on the website and after i asked for the fax i was waiting for you to show a little common sense and go the website that many other have found without being told...since its all right here in front of you and send it over with the information... i take that as a no...you cant get that information... especially after all of this blather given your clear bias against the product be assured that i will only conduct an evaluation in which you participate with a third party like a tv station that will ensure an adequate oversight of the test. if you do ever recruit a tv station by the way the product will be shipped to them not you. and if the test is ever done it will be ordered through maxim lc with a clear cut understanding of the claims you have made.. bottom line the balls still in your court pal. bullshit...but since you say that...the fax number is on the website....send it on or get gone... would you have a problem with the state attorney generals office getting involved just curious since i have read this and offered this in a state that looks really hard at wild ass claims... tell ya what...dont even bother answering that...if we run the test and it fails the results will be sent to them anyway...oh..you want their website information too try google. damn you are a dense one...hey man..i got a bridge in arizona for you to go sell... .

From : roy

steve what website im giving the guy a break cause he really is trying. you keep saying website website wouldnt it be easier to just post the number or email it to him he says hes sending me product to test and i will. you should do the same and not be such a jerk about it. wtf!! this salesman cant find steves # htf is he going to stay in business heres the fax# 336-853-3064 you guys are giving this bs too much credence imho. but it is your time. roy .

From : jon moser

denny your message got a response shortly after i received it on 082104 at 1026am mst via the jonmosero@msn.com account. if you did not get it im sorry but i did answer you. below is my record of the send. ======================================= denny thanks for your interest. yesterday another gentleman named mike indicated that he would take the sample and i let him know - public posting within the dodge trucks forum - that he could have it. if that doesnt work out ill be happy to send the fuel catalyst to you especially because its obvious that you pay attention to your vehicle and its mileage. so lets see what happens. best regards jon ----- original message ----- from denny sent saturday august 21 2004 956 am to jon moser subject re your power at the pump jon if nobody in the ng takes you up on the offer ill give it a try and post the results with your permission. it will be going in a 95 caravan with a 3.3l engine 95000 miles and is in great shape. i use it as my work vehicle and in the last 1800 miles has averaged 20.3 mpg. let me know what you want to do. denny dmetzger2@woh.rr.com .

From : mac davis

on sat 28 aug 2004 031211 gmt mgg mike@pacbell.net wrote just a wild guess but have you tried http//www.carolinabreezehvac.com i saw a p.o. box and fax number thee on my 1st try.. steve what website im giving the guy a break cause he really is trying. you keep saying website website wouldnt it be easier to just post the number or email it to him he says hes sending me product to test and i will. you should do the same and not be such a jerk about it. --mike steve@carolinabreezehvac steve@removethis.carolinabreezehvac.com wrote on august 23 2004 you implied that you had a television station ready to test the enviromaxplus product. later on august 23 you said that you were . . . working out the details with a station right now. shortly afterwards on that same date you said that you had 4 stations in your area not to mention an additional one in california that were interested in doing the test. i sure did and until i get what *i* asked for you can figure out for yourself that it might be one of over 100 station in the tristate area... reading all of these changing conditions it was my decision not to bother the company with your request for any proof of insurance until you came through with the details that i initially requested regarding the one - or now apparently the several - television stations that you said you were lining up. in other words you know there is a big chance you will look like a fool. and you now want to spin it.. now you try to make a big issue out of not receiving a fax. interesting sidenote for everyone reading this you never even provided me with a fax number. any idiot can find my fax number...its real simple...its like....duh dood...on the website and after i asked for the fax i was waiting for you to show a little common sense and go the website that many other have found without being told...since its all right here in front of you and send it over with the information... i take that as a no...you cant get that information... especially after all of this blather given your clear bias against the product be assured that i will only conduct an evaluation in which you participate with a third party like a tv station that will ensure an adequate oversight of the test. if you do ever recruit a tv station by the way the product will be shipped to them not you. and if the test is ever done it will be ordered through maxim lc with a clear cut understanding of the claims you have made.. bottom line the balls still in your court pal. bullshit...but since you say that...the fax number is on the website....send it on or get gone... would you have a problem with the state attorney generals office getting involved just curious since i have read this and offered this in a state that looks really hard at wild ass claims... tell ya what...dont even bother answering that...if we run the test and it fails the results will be sent to them anyway...oh..you want their website information too try google. damn you are a dense one...hey man..i got a bridge in arizona for you to go sell... mac .

From : jerry

al . 222 288440 el3yc.950$w%6.903@read1..pas.earthlink.net roy wrote steve what website im giving the guy a break cause he really is trying. you keep saying website website wouldnt it be easier to just post the number or email it to him he says hes sending me product to test and i will. you should do the same and not be such a jerk about it. wtf!! this salesman cant find steves # htf is he going to stay in business heres the fax# 336-853-3064 you guys are giving this bs too much credence imho. but it is your time. roy naw the guy is right roy steve issued a challenge and his bluff was called and now instead of gracefully backing out and the latter is what he will do in the end he is trying to run circles. sure his numbers are on the web site but the challenge and acceptance was issued here in this group and if he was serious he would have simply posted the number upon request. instead he is even resorting now saying gee golly im going to get the state attorney generals office involved as if they would really give a shit in a simple side challenge on a group. no steve issued the challenge to test the product bluff called now wants out doing a typical steve bs spin. jerry .

From : roy

roy wrote steve what website im giving the guy a break cause he really is trying. you keep saying website website wouldnt it be easier to just post the number or email it to him he says hes sending me product to test and i will. you should do the same and not be such a jerk about it. wtf!! this salesman cant find steves # htf is he going to stay in business heres the fax# 336-853-3064 you guys are giving this bs too much credence imho. but it is your time. roy naw the guy is right roy steve issued a challenge and his bluff was called and now instead of gracefully backing out and the latter is what he will do in the end he is trying to run circles. sure his numbers are on the web site but the challenge and acceptance was issued here in this group and if he was serious he would have simply posted the number upon request. instead he is even resorting now saying gee golly im going to get the state attorney generals office involved as if they would really give a shit in a simple side challenge on a group. no steve issued the challenge to test the product bluff called now wants out doing a typical steve bs spin. jerry the other side of this coin is that i was the one that e-mailed jon direct saying that i would also try a sample and post the results. i have not yet even got an acknowledgement of the e-mail. i dont think jon has any intension of making good his side of the wager either. but he did get a certain amount of free advertisement from this thread in any case. denny hmm lets see if ya get this. just sent this you to you pm 509pm est. .

From : jon moser

there have been some questions on this forum related to the enviromaxplus patent. to clarify matters for those interested one should be able to copy and paste the following link if they want to look at it for themselves. http//patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-parsersect1=pto1&sect2=hitoff&d=pall&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=g&l=50&s1=5266082.wku.&os=pn/5266082&rs=pn/5266082 if that does not work they can try the link below then in the query box enter 5266082 http//patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/srchnum.htm both ways have worked when i tried them in my browsers. .

From : denny

jon who knows what happened but i never received it. denny denny your message got a response shortly after i received it on 082104 at 1026am mst via the jonmosero@msn.com account. if you did not get it im sorry but i did answer you. below is my record of the send. ======================================= denny thanks for your interest. yesterday another gentleman named mike indicated that he would take the sample and i let him know - public posting within the dodge trucks forum - that he could have it. if that doesnt work out ill be happy to send the fuel catalyst to you especially because its obvious that you pay attention to your vehicle and its mileage. so lets see what happens. best regards jon ----- original message ----- from denny sent saturday august 21 2004 956 am to jon moser subject re your power at the pump jon if nobody in the ng takes you up on the offer ill give it a try and post the results with your permission. it will be going in a 95 caravan with a 3.3l engine 95000 miles and is in great shape. i use it as my work vehicle and in the last 1800 miles has averaged 20.3 mpg. let me know what you want to do. denny dmetzger2@woh.rr.com .

From : steve carolinabreezehvac

roy wrote steve what website im giving the guy a break cause he really is trying. you keep saying website website wouldnt it be easier to just post the number or email it to him he says hes sending me product to test and i will. you should do the same and not be such a jerk about it. wtf!! this salesman cant find steves # htf is he going to stay in business heres the fax# 336-853-3064 you guys are giving this bs too much credence imho. but it is your time. roy naw the guy is right roy steve issued a challenge and his bluff was called and now instead of gracefully backing out and the latter is what he will do in the end he is trying to run circles. sure his numbers are on the web site but the challenge and acceptance was issued here in this group and if he was serious he would have simply posted the number upon request. instead he is even resorting now saying gee golly im going to get the state attorney generals office involved as if they would really give a shit in a simple side challenge on a group. no steve issued the challenge to test the product bluff called now wants out doing a typical steve bs spin. jerry there is no spin on my side jerry altho you would love there to be. the offer stands. funny how no one else that would be serious about taking me up on anything i have offered in the past has had any problem finding the numbers to contact me. pardon me...really if i assumed that this time would be any different. no spin nothing but a simple..hey..i made a mistake with an assumption. and the sag comment was made as a legitimate contractor that hates scams snake oils and magic potions that are designed to simply remove a dollar from someones pocket. i dont want out i want the damn information that as of today still isnt here. if the guy does not have a fax that works he can send it to the po box as well and i promise that when and if i get it i will let you know.. and since i have yet to even get an email from the guy he can also get that information from the company site that has already been posted.. yes i would like to know if something works....cause if it does general motors dc and ford should be buying it in great volumes....particularly in this day and age...but what do i know i just do this shit as a hobby now....i dont even know if that new hemi block we are working on will make 700hp this go round...bone stock internals of course.. but then i dont have a problem getting more than 16mpg with the b2500 maxi with the 318..yet some cant break the 12 mpg mark...so...how do you explain that one ok...thats off topic but makes sense to me about the entire shbang... .

From : steve carolinabreezehvac

steve what website im giving the guy a break cause he really is trying. to make a buck...thats fine...but as judge judy said..dont piss on my leg and tell me its raining.. you keep saying website website wouldnt it be easier to just post the number or email it to him as i just told jerry..i havent even gotten a mail from the guy. i have his addy and i have the sent letter i sent him...but no answer. he says hes sending me product to test and i will. let us know how you like it...seriously. you should do the same and not be such a jerk about it. i havent been a jerk..yet... really...roy can tell ya that... --mike steve@carolinabreezehvac steve@removethis.carolinabreezehvac.com wrote on august 23 2004 you implied that you had a television station ready to test the enviromaxplus product. later on august 23 you said that you were . . . working out the details with a station right now. shortly afterwards on that same date you said that you had 4 stations in your area not to mention an additional one in california that were interested in doing the test. i sure did and until i get what *i* asked for you can figure out for yourself that it might be one of over 100 station in the tristate area... reading all of these changing conditions it was my decision not to bother the company with your request for any proof of insurance until you came through with the details that i initially requested regarding the one - or now apparently the several - television stations that you said you were lining up. in other words you know there is a big chance you will look like a fool. and you now want to spin it.. now you try to make a big issue out of not receiving a fax. interesting sidenote for everyone reading this you never even provided me with a fax number. any idiot can find my fax number...its real simple...its like....duh dood...on the website and after i asked for the fax i was waiting for you to show a little common sense and go the website that many other have found without being told...since its all right here in front of you and send it over with the information... i take that as a no...you cant get that information... especially after all of this blather given your clear bias against the product be assured that i will only conduct an evaluation in which you participate with a third party like a tv station that will ensure an adequate oversight of the test. if you do ever recruit a tv station by the way the product will be shipped to them not you. and if the test is ever done it will be ordered through maxim lc with a clear cut understanding of the claims you have made.. bottom line the balls still in your court pal. bullshit...but since you say that...the fax number is on the website....send it on or get gone... would you have a problem with the state attorney generals office getting involved just curious since i have read this and offered this in a state that looks really hard at wild ass claims... tell ya what...dont even bother answering that...if we run the test and it fails the results will be sent to them anyway...oh..you want their website information too try google. damn you are a dense one...hey man..i got a bridge in arizona for you to go sell... .

From : mgg

i havent been a jerk..yet... really...roy can tell ya that... lol! well jon said a couple of days ago that he was shipping some product to me. so far no joy. but i wasnt in my office at all yesterday so it may actually be there. --mike steve@carolinabreezehvac steve@removethis.carolinabreezehvac.com wrote steve what website im giving the guy a break cause he really is trying. to make a buck...thats fine...but as judge judy said..dont piss on my leg and tell me its raining.. you keep saying website website wouldnt it be easier to just post the number or email it to him as i just told jerry..i havent even gotten a mail from the guy. i have his addy and i have the sent letter i sent him...but no answer. he says hes sending me product to test and i will. let us know how you like it...seriously. you should do the same and not be such a jerk about it. i havent been a jerk..yet... really...roy can tell ya that... --mike steve@carolinabreezehvac steve@removethis.carolinabreezehvac.com wrote on august 23 2004 you implied that you had a television station ready to test the enviromaxplus product. later on august 23 you said that you were . . . working out the details with a station right now. shortly afterwards on that same date you said that you had 4 stations in your area not to mention an additional one in california that were interested in doing the test. i sure did and until i get what *i* asked for you can figure out for yourself that it might be one of over 100 station in the tristate area... reading all of these changing conditions it was my decision not to bother the company with your request for any proof of insurance until you came through with the details that i initially requested regarding the one - or now apparently the several - television stations that you said you were lining up. in other words you know there is a big chance you will look like a fool. and you now want to spin it.. now you try to make a big issue out of not receiving a fax. interesting sidenote for everyone reading this you never even provided me with a fax number. any idiot can find my fax number...its real simple...its like....duh dood...on the website and after i asked for the fax i was waiting for you to show a little common sense and go the website that many other have found without being told...since its all right here in front of you and send it over with the information... i take that as a no...you cant get that information... especially after all of this blather given your clear bias against the product be assured that i will only conduct an evaluation in which you participate with a third party like a tv station that will ensure an adequate oversight of the test. if you do ever recruit a tv station by the way the product will be shipped to them not you. and if the test is ever done it will be ordered through maxim lc with a clear cut understanding of the claims you have made.. bottom line the balls still in your court pal. bullshit...but since you say that...the fax number is on the website....send it on or get gone... would you have a problem with the state attorney generals office getting involved just curious since i have read this and offered this in a state that looks really hard at wild ass claims... tell ya what...dont even bother answering that...if we run the test and it fails the results will be sent to them anyway...oh..you want their website information too try google. damn you are a dense one...hey man..i got a bridge in arizona for you to go sell... .

From : denny

...........and even with a finite population on the planet there is never a shortage of idiots... but tell me why all the idiots are located in ohio........... denny denny they are not! since ohio is so close to missouri a few have migrated here..... thanks a bunch! mike well we want out idiots back!! we have cultivated a superior strain of stupidity into our idiots that we just dont share with anybody...... denny ok.... ok..... ill be coming thru ohion in two weeks and ill round up as many as i can stuff in my rv and drop em off. where do you want em dayton columbus akron or should i just spread em out ;^ mike there seems to be a good sized congregation of them around elida. im sure another trailer load of them will fit in nicely... drive slow as youre coming thru the iced tea is on me.. you still going to make it to the smokies the last of sept denny .

From : mike simmons

...........and even with a finite population on the planet there is never a shortage of idiots... but tell me why all the idiots are located in ohio........... denny denny they are not! since ohio is so close to missouri a few have migrated here..... thanks a bunch! mike well we want out idiots back!! we have cultivated a superior strain of stupidity into our idiots that we just dont share with anybody...... denny ok.... ok..... ill be coming thru ohion in two weeks and ill round up as many as i can stuff in my rv and drop em off. where do you want em dayton columbus akron or should i just spread em out ;^ mike .

From : mike simmons

...........and even with a finite population on the planet there is never a shortage of idiots... but tell me why all the idiots are located in ohio........... denny denny they are not! since ohio is so close to missouri a few have migrated here..... thanks a bunch! mike well we want out idiots back!! we have cultivated a superior strain of stupidity into our idiots that we just dont share with anybody...... denny ok.... ok..... ill be coming thru ohion in two weeks and ill round up as many as i can stuff in my rv and drop em off. where do you want em dayton columbus akron or should i just spread em out ;^ mike there seems to be a good sized congregation of them around elida. im sure another trailer load of them will fit in nicely... drive slow as youre coming thru the iced tea is on me.. you still going to make it to the smokies the last of sept denny yup we will be at creekside rv park in pigeon forge from septemeber 20-25th. mike .

From : steve carolinabreezehvac

steve@carolinabreezehvac wrote there is no spin on my side jerry altho you would love there to be. i dont care if you spin or not ........... just call it like i see it. if that bothers you oh well.......... jerry no sir..not at all but what i find amazing is that we argue as much as we do seeing as how there are only a few in here that think in the same fashion.... like it or not..you and i are closer in thought than you want to admit. course..the same could be said of myself as well... .

From : high sierra

tbone wrote it is funny that the one i accuse the most of corporate greed is the only one actively defending gm here lol. not actively defending gm at all. now you resort to spinning miles where did i ever say the gm design was good safe or anything else you didnt because you cant but that doesnt mean that you are not defending them. you instead try to mke it sound like it is a normal and acceptable thing to do and claim that the facts are invalid. see tbone you will find an argument where none exists just so you can argue. how is that even possible sorry miles but you were the one who jumped in here claiming that verifiable facts were nothing more than opinions and not once but twice. it appears that the only one looking for an argument is you. how many arguments do you have going at any one time here make an estimate. easy zero. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : greg surratt

on fri 20 aug 2004 180939 gmt trey treydog90spam@hotmail.com wrote what makes this gimic different if i bought every kind of catalyst out there for my truck there would not be any room in the tank for gas! you might want to try driving alongside my car - i have so many fuel saving gadgets that im pumping gas out the filler! ;- .

From : greg surratt

on sat 21 aug 2004 125953 gmt jon moser jonnymo1@earthlink.net wrote on that page a 10 minute video can be played hosted by johnny rutherford the guy who had a pretty respectable racing career. in it youll see an interview with a gentleman named larry mankin one with substantial credentials in the automotive field who agreed to evaluate the enviromaxplus product for the company. mr. mankins initial response was effectively yeah ill be happy to test it for you but it wont work. listen to what he said afterwards. in addition to the other comments about company spokesmen and money i always have to wonder who decides what credential are substantial kind of like the latest sears ad says you can have your tires changed by certified technicians. certified by who does the local goodyear or firestone store have access to the same certification procedures .

From : mac davis

on thu 02 sep 2004 124810 gmt greg surratt glsurratt@verizon.net wrote on sat 21 aug 2004 125953 gmt jon moser jonnymo1@earthlink.net wrote on that page a 10 minute video can be played hosted by johnny rutherford the guy who had a pretty respectable racing career. in it youll see an interview with a gentleman named larry mankin one with substantial credentials in the automotive field who agreed to evaluate the enviromaxplus product for the company. mr. mankins initial response was effectively yeah ill be happy to test it for you but it wont work. listen to what he said afterwards. in addition to the other comments about company spokesmen and money i always have to wonder who decides what credential are substantial kind of like the latest sears ad says you can have your tires changed by certified technicians. certified by who does the local goodyear or firestone store have access to the same certification procedures ive had a few people work on tires that should have been certified... and put in a padded room and heavily medicated.. mac .

From : jon moser

larry mankins credentials are presented on the video. let the buyer beware and make their own judgements about his qualifications to state the findings that he reported. on sat 21 aug 2004 125953 gmt jon moser jonnymo1@earthlink.net wrote on that page a 10 minute video can be played hosted by johnny rutherford the guy who had a pretty respectable racing career. in it youll see an interview with a gentleman named larry mankin one with substantial credentials in the automotive field who agreed to evaluate the enviromaxplus product for the company. mr. mankins initial response was effectively yeah ill be happy to test it for you but it wont work. listen to what he said afterwards. in addition to the other comments about company spokesmen and money i always have to wonder who decides what credential are substantial kind of like the latest sears ad says you can have your tires changed by certified technicians. certified by who does the local goodyear or firestone store have access to the same certification procedures .

From : mike simmons

treys skepticism is understandable and appreciated. i have been around cars and exorbitant claims long enough that i didnt get involved in extreme research and enviromaxplus without doing a lot of homework. the design of the enviromaxplus product revolves around the release of latent energy found in all fuels. i am aware of numerous people who have indicated that they switched from super premium fuel supposedly required for their vehicles to regular unleaded. using enviromaxplus they still achieved improvements in mileage and performance. my own conclusion is that octane aint all its cracked up to be. apparently octane is far from the only factor in the equation when it comes to improving mileage and performance. jon with all due respect i think the product you have hitched your star to is more than likely snake oil. the companys claim of being able to release the latent energy in the fuel is hogwash. all the energy in fuel is latent until subjected to the combustion process. octane enhancing additives do not add a single btu to the energy of fuel. high octane and low octane fuels all have the same energy value. what makes octane appear to give more performance is that the high octane f

From : jon moser

the fuel to be used in a higher compression engine which is inherently more efficient. what determines your fuel efficiency is engine efficiency. unless your engine is somehow made more efficient all the snake oil in the world aint gonna help your mileage one iota! sorry to burst your bubble but facts is facts and physics is physics! chryco service manager member sae . 222 287843 euxvc.29096$9y6.15811@read1..pas.earthlink.net budd unless you are writing as a representative of earthlink lets let them make the decision as to what is spam. it seems to me that the discussion that we have going here has stimulated some well conceived commentary. jon moser spammer!!! a load of spam. earthlink doesnt approve btw. .

From : jon moser

mike your snake oil anology is understandable. there are too many unsubstantiated claims out there regarding mileage and performance increases. but have you taken the time to take a reasonably thorough look at the web page for enviromaxplus would you be interested in setting up a fair pre-post apples to apples test of the product if so ill be happy to provide the product and lets make the result public on this forum. fair enough best regards jon moser http//home.earthlink.net/jonnymo1/ treys skepticism is understandable and appreciated. i have been around cars and exorbitant claims long enough that i didnt get involved in extreme research and enviromaxplus without doing a lot of homework. the design of the enviromaxplus product revolves around the release of latent energy found in all fuels. i am aware of numerous people who have indicated that they switched from super premium fuel supposedly required for their vehicles to regular unleaded. using enviromaxplus they still achieved improvements in mileage and performance. my own conclusion is that octane aint all its cracked up to be. apparently octane is far from the only factor in the equation when it comes to improving mileage and performance. jon with all due respect i think the product you have hitched your star to is more than likely snake oil. the companys claim of being able to release the latent energy in the fuel is hogwash. all the energy in fuel is latent until subjected to the combustion process. octane enhancing additives do not add a single btu to the energy of fuel. high octane and low octane fuels all have the same energy value. what makes octane appear to give more performance is that the high octane fuel allows the fuel to be used in a higher compression engine which is inherently more efficient. what determines your fuel efficiency is engine efficiency. unless your engine is somehow made more efficient all the snake oil in the world aint gonna help your mileage one iota! sorry to burst your bubble but facts is facts and physics is physics! chryco service manager member sae .

From : mgg

that sounds like a fair proposal to me. if mike declines ill bite. --mike another one mike your snake oil anology is understandable. there are too many unsubstantiated claims out there regarding mileage and performance increases. but have you taken the time to take a reasonably thorough look at the web page for enviromaxplus would you be interested in setting up a fair pre-post apples to apples test of the product if so ill be happy to provide the product and lets make the result public on this forum. fair enough best regards jon moser http//home.earthlink.net/jonnymo1/ treys skepticism is understandable and appreciated. i have been around cars and exorbitant claims long enough that i didnt get involved in extreme research and enviromaxplus without doing a lot of homework. the design of the enviromaxplus product revolves around the release of latent energy found in all fuels. i am aware of numerous people who have indicated that they switched from super premium fuel supposedly required for their vehicles to regular unleaded. using enviromaxplus they still achieved improvements in mileage and performance. my own conclusion is that octane aint all its cracked up to be. apparently octane is far from the only factor in the equation when it comes to improving mileage and performance. jon with all due respect i think the product you have hitched your star to is more than likely snake oil. the companys claim of being able to release the latent energy in the fuel is hogwash. all the energy in fuel is latent until subjected to the combustion process. octane enhancing additives do not add a single btu to the energy of fuel. high octane and low octane fuels all have the same energy value. what makes octane appear to give more performance is that the high octane fuel allows the fuel to be used in a higher compression engine which is inherently more efficient. what determines your fuel efficiency is engine efficiency. unless your engine is somehow made more efficient all the snake oil in the world aint gonna help your mileage one iota! sorry to burst your bubble but facts is facts and physics is physics! chryco service manager member sae .

From : budd cochran

it wasnt a compliment. budd thanks loads glad ive finally achieved some status in this world. budd unless you are writing as a representative of earthlink lets let them make the decision as to what is spam. it seems to me that the discussion that we have going here has stimulated some well conceived commentary. oh look ! we have a new net-nanny .

From : budd cochran

sorry but you better re-read earthlink policies. there have been many spammers attempt to use earthlink and lost their accounts for it. as for you product alcohol blend fuels have been around for years under the guise of oxygenated fuels. my step-dad during ww-2 tried adding 15% corn squeezings to his fuel tank he ran a bit of shine during the war to give himself a gallon or two of fuel in his tank fuel rationing and never noticed much fuel economy increase just a more full tank . if the base compound used in this product is nothing more than alcohol then buy a product called heet. its a gasoline dryer absorbs fuel system moisture and is probably cheaper in the long run. now take your spamming and leave. budd budd unless you are writing as a representative of earthlink lets let them make the decision as to what is spam. it seems to me that the discussion that we have going here has stimulated some well conceived commentary. jon moser spammer!!! a load of spam. earthlink doesnt approve btw. .

From : mac davis

on fri 20 aug 2004 141432 gmt jon moser jonnymo1@earthlink.net wrote youre right... and i did! abuse@earthlink.net mac .

From : mike simmons

mike your snake oil anology is understandable. there are too many unsubstantiated claims out there regarding mileage and performance increases. but have you taken the time to take a reasonably thorough look at the web page for enviromaxplus yes i have... the msds sheet indicates that the product is 99% ethanol with 1-2% proprietary ingredient. pretty pricey corn squeezins if you ask me. also the epa data sheet really isnt a data sheet at all it just indicates that the product is registered with the epa... no data was offered. the website has snake oil written all over it... not only does this company make the best fuel additive it also has the secret to weight loss and sells environmentally friendly organic coffee!! geez give us a break! mike would you be interested in setting up a fair pre-post apples to apples test of the product if so ill be happy to provide the product and lets make the result public on this forum. fair enough best regards jon moser http//home.earthlink.net/jonnymo1/ treys skepticism is understandable and appreciated. i have been around cars and exorbitant claims long enough that i didnt get involved in extreme research and enviromaxplus without doing a lot of homework. the design of the enviromaxplus product revolves around the release of latent energy found in all fuels. i am aware of numerous people who have indicated that they switched from super premium fuel supposedly required for their vehicles to regular unleaded. using enviromaxplus they still achieved improvements in mileage and performance. my own conclusion is that octane aint all its cracked up to be. apparently octane is far from the only factor in the equation when it comes to improving mileage and performance. jon with all due respect i think the product you have hitched your star to is more than likely snake oil. the companys claim of being able to release the latent energy in the fuel is hogwash. all the energy in fuel is latent until subjected to the combustion process. octane enhancing additives do not add a single btu to the energy of fuel. high octane and low octane fuels all have the same energy value. what makes octane appear to give more performance is that the high octane fuel allows the fuel to be used in a higher compression engine which is inherently more efficient. what determines your fuel efficiency is engine efficiency. unless your engine is somehow made more efficient all the snake oil in the world aint gonna help your mileage one iota! sorry to burst your bubble but facts is facts and physics is physics! chryco service manager member sae .

From : jon moser

mike the other one it looks as if mike simmons has declined my offer. so if youll get address info to me - jonmosero@msn.com - ill ship you some product to try. all that i ask is that you have an accurate fix on your gas mileage prior to using the catalyst and that the vehicle be driven under the same basic circumstances during the test phase. otherwise as im sure you understand we get into an apples to oranges comparison which wont really prove anything. your being open to giving the product a fair shot is appreciated. thanks. jon that sounds like a fair proposal to me. if mike declines ill bite. --mike another one mike your snake oil anology is understandable. there are too many unsubstantiated claims out there regarding mileage and performance increases. but have you taken the time to take a reasonably thorough look at the web page for enviromaxplus would you be interested in setting up a fair pre-post apples to apples test of the product if so ill be happy to provide the product and lets make the result public on this forum. fair enough best regards jon moser http//home.earthlink.net/jonnymo1/ treys skepticism is understandable and appreciated. i have been around cars and exorbitant claims long enough that i didnt get involved in extreme research and enviromaxplus without doing a lot of homework. the design of the enviromaxplus product revolves around the release of latent energy found in all fuels. i am aware of numerous people who have indicated that they switched from super premium fuel supposedly required for their vehicles to regular unleaded. using enviromaxplus they still achieved improvements in mileage and performance. my own conclusion is that octane aint all its cracked up to be. apparently octane is far from the only factor in the equation when it comes to improving mileage and performance. jon with all due respect i think the product you have hitched your star to is more than likely snake oil. the companys claim of being able to release the latent energy in the fuel is hogwash. all the energy in fuel is latent until subjected to the combustion process. octane enhancing additives do not add a single btu to the energy of fuel. high octane and low octane fuels all have the same energy value. what makes octane appear to give more performance is that the high octane fuel allows the fuel to be used in a higher compression engine which is inherently more efficient. what determines your fuel efficiency is engine efficiency. unless your engine is somehow made more efficient all the snake oil in the world aint gonna help your mileage one iota! sorry to burst your bubble but facts is facts and physics is physics! chryco service manager member sae .

From : mike simmons

mike since you are evidently not interested in giving the fuel catalyst a test at my expense i have offered the opportunity to another mike in this forum who is willing to give it a try. i am anxious to hear his results! the commentary based upon your review of the enviromaxplus web page is awfully selective. i just hope that anyone who is sufficiently interested will take a look at that page and judge for themselves. jon i looked at the website and judged for myself. my selective review was selective because i overlooked the marketing hype. i was looking for factual info as to how the products works and why... it was very vague. after my last post i spent about twenty minutes reading the patent info and again found nothing of substance. its primary purpose was to demonstrate the uniqueness of the formulation rather than test results. the test results that were published in the patent were at best anecdotal. on that page a 10 minute video can be played hosted by johnny rutherford the guy who had a pretty respectable racing career. in it youll see an interview with a gentleman named larry mankin one with substantial credentials in the automotive field who agreed to evaluate the enviromaxplus

From : jon moser

mike since you are evidently not interested in giving the fuel catalyst a test at my expense i have offered the opportunity to another mike in this forum who is willing to give it a try. the commentary based upon your review of the enviromaxplus web page is awfully selective. i just hope that anyone who is sufficiently interested will take a look at that page and judge for themselves. on that page a 10 minute video can be played hosted by johnny rutherford the guy who had a pretty respectable racing career. in it youll see an interview with a gentleman named larry mankin one with substantial credentials in the automotive field who agreed to evaluate the enviromaxplus product for the company. mr. mankins initial response was effectively yeah ill be happy to test it for you but it wont work. listen to what he said afterwards. by the way at first johnny rutherford didnt think the product was worth a bucket of warm spit either. after he finally agreed to give it a try in his country singer bus mr. rutherford became the product spokesman. and hes not the type who goes around lending his good name to anything that comes along. the point for all their experience and abilities sometimes even the experts can be wrong. remember that in 1899 charles h. duell commissioner of the u.s. office of patents declared everything that can be invented has been invented. keep an open mind. jon moser http//www.jonnymo.myextremeresearch.com/40k/enviromax.asp mike your snake oil anology is understandable. there are too many unsubstantiated claims out there regarding mileage and performance increases. but have you taken the time to take a reasonably thorough look at the web page for enviromaxplus yes i have... the msds sheet indicates that the product is 99% ethanol with 1-2% proprietary ingredient. pretty pricey corn squeezins if you ask me. also the epa data sheet really isnt a data sheet at all it just indicates that the product is registered with the epa... no data was offered. the website has snake oil written all over it... not only does this company make the best fuel additive it also has the secret to weight loss and sells environmentally friendly organic coffee!! geez give us a break! mike would you be interested in setting up a fair pre-post apples to apples test of the product if so ill be happy to provide the product and lets make the result public on this forum. fair enough best regards jon moser http//home.earthlink.net/jonnymo1/ treys skepticism is understandable and appreciated. i have been around cars and exorbitant claims long enough that i didnt get involved in extreme research and enviromaxplus without doing a lot of homework. the design of the enviromaxplus product revolves around the release of latent energy found in all fuels. i am aware of numerous people who have indicated that they switched from super premium fuel supposedly required for their vehicles to regular unleaded. using enviromaxplus they still achieved improvements in mileage and performance. my own conclusion is that octane aint all its cracked up to be. apparently octane is far from the only factor in the equation when it comes to improving mileage and performance. jon with all due respect i think the product you have hitched your star to is more than likely snake oil. the companys claim of being able to release the latent energy in the fuel is hogwash. all the energy in fuel is latent until subjected to the combustion process. octane enhancing additives do not add a single btu to the energy of fuel. high octane and low octane fuels all have the same energy value. what makes octane appear to give more performance is that the high octane fuel allows the fuel to be used in a higher compression engine which is inherently more efficient. what determines your fuel efficiency is engine efficiency. unless your engine is somehow made more efficient all the snake oil in the world aint gonna help your mileage one iota! sorry to burst your bubble but facts is facts and physics is physics! chryco service manager member sae .

From : mgg

secret to weight loss and sells environmentally friendly organic coffee!! cool i need those too! g --mike mike your snake oil anology is understandable. there are too many unsubstantiated claims out there regarding mileage and performance increases. but have you taken the time to take a reasonably thorough look at the web page for enviromaxplus yes i have... the msds sheet indicates that the product is 99% ethanol with 1-2% proprietary ingredient. pretty pricey corn squeezins if you ask me. also the epa data sheet really isnt a data sheet at all it just indicates that the product is registered with the epa... no data was offered. the website has snake oil written all over it... not only does this company make the best fuel additive it also has the secret to weight loss and sells environmentally friendly organic coffee!! geez give us a break! mike would you be interested in setting up a fair pre-post apples to apples test of the product if so ill be happy to provide the product and lets make the result public on this forum. fair enough best regards jon moser http//home.earthlink.net/jonnymo1/ treys skepticism is understandable and appreciated. i have been around cars and exorbitant claims long enough that i didnt get involved in extreme research and enviromaxplus without doing a lot of homework. the design of the enviromaxplus product revolves around the release of latent energy found in all fuels. i am aware of numerous people who have indicated that they switched from super premium fuel supposedly required for their vehicles to regular unleaded. using enviromaxplus they still achieved improvements in mileage and performance. my own conclusion is that octane aint all its cracked up to be. apparently octane is far from the only factor in the equation when it comes to improving mileage and performance. jon with all due respect i think the product you have hitched your star to is more than likely snake oil. the companys claim of being able to release the latent energy in the fuel is hogwash. all the energy in fuel is latent until subjected to the combustion process. octane enhancing additives do not add a single btu to the energy of fuel. high octane and low octane fuels all have the same energy value. what makes octane appear to give more performance is that the high octane fuel allows the fuel to be used in a higher compression engine which is inherently more efficient. what determines your fuel efficiency is engine efficiency. unless your engine is somehow made more efficient all the snake oil in the world aint gonna help your mileage one iota! sorry to burst your bubble but facts is facts and physics is physics! chryco service manager member sae .

From : jon moser

to respond to a couple of mike simmons points. yes some celebrities will say anything for a buck but i believe that johnny rutherford has earned a good public image over several decades and that he has more integrity than to make misrepresentations for money. regarding the oil companies its no secret among those involved in extreme research that the catalyst has been offered to one some or all of them and it has been rejected. that means one of two things. either the catalyst is worthless as several contributing to this forum think. or if the product does work as advertised it would mean the loss of billions in revenue as consumers would not have to buy as much gasoline or diesel. draw your own conclusions. mike since you are evidently not interested in giving the fuel catalyst a test at my expense i have offered the opportunity to another mike in this forum who is willing to give it a try. i am anxious to hear his results! the commentary based upon your review of the enviromaxplus web page is awfully selective. i just hope that anyone who is sufficiently interested will take a look at that page and judge for themselves. jon i looked at the website and judged for myself. my selective review was selective because i overlooked the marketing hype. i was looking for factual info as to how the products works and why... it was very vague. after my last post i spent about twenty minutes reading the patent info and again found nothing of substance. its primary purpose was to demonstrate the uniqueness of the formulation rather than test results. the test results that were published in the patent were at best anecdotal. on that page a 10 minute video can be played hosted by johnny rutherford the guy who had a pretty respectable racing career. in it youll see an interview with a gentleman named larry mankin one with substantial credentials in the automotive field who agreed to evaluate the enviromaxplus product for the company. mr. mankins initial response was effectively yeah ill be happy to test it for you but it wont work. listen to what he said afterwards. jon given enough money people will say anything about anything.... a corporate spokesman means nothing. im from missouri show me test reults from an independent national recognized testing lab and then you will have my attention. by the way at first johnny rutherford didnt think the product was worth a bucket of warm spit either. after he finally agreed to give it a try in his country singer bus mr. rutherford became the product spokesman. and hes not the type who goes around lending his good name to anything that comes along. see above the point for all their experience and abilities sometimes even the experts can be wrong. remember that in 1899 charles h. duell commissioner of the u.s. office of patents declared everything that can be invented has been invented. keep an open mind. you are correct experts can and are wrong frequently. my mind is always open however the engineer in me coupled with my many years in the automotive industry have forced me to be a skeptic. you have no idea how many countless inventions potions etc. i have seen come to market only to succeed in one thing and that is to lighten the consumers wallet. i have gotta ask one question though.... if this product was as good as the manufacturer says why oh why hasnt one of the big oil companies jumped on this can you imagine the marketing advantage lets say exxonmobil would have if they could truthfully state that their product will give you 35% better fuel economy than shell bpamoco citgo conocophillips et al. they would own the market. dont you think that if something was available some big oil company would jump on it in a heartbeat also can you imagine the riches the inventor would glean from either selling outright or licensing his formulation to a big oil company certainly more money than could be made by schlepping a product on an obscure website or being sold in an mlm scheme. the pursuit of profit being the primary motivator of businessmen why hasnt one of the above scenarios taken place simply because the product doesnt work! i will now sit back and wait for the other mikes report. mike jon moser http//www.jonnymo.myextremeresearch.com/40k/enviromax.asp mike your snake oil anology is understandable. there are too many unsubstantiated claims out there regarding mileage and performance increases. but have you taken the time to take a reasonably thorough look at the web page for enviromaxplus yes i have... the msds sheet indicates that the product is 99% ethanol with 1-2% proprietary ingredient. pretty pricey corn squeezins if you ask me. also the epa data sheet really isnt a data sheet at all it just indicates that the product is registered with the epa... no data was offered. the website has snake oil

From : joe

jon moser jonnymo1@earthlink.net wrote in to respond to a couple of mike simmons points. yes some celebrities will say anything for a buck but i believe that johnny rutherford has earned a good public image over several decades and that he has more integrity than to make misrepresentations for money. its all speculation. regarding the oil companies its no secret among those involved in extreme research that the catalyst has been offered to one some or all of them and it has been rejected. that means one of two things. either the catalyst is worthless as several contributing to this forum think. or if the product does work as advertised it would mean the loss of billions in revenue as consumers would not have to buy as much gasoline or diesel. draw your own conclusions. if the product worked as advertised and one of the oil companies bought it the loss from people buying less fuel due to the increased efficiency would me more than offset by the new customers theyd gain and the probable increase in price per gallon. 2 cents. joe black 03 dakota 5.9 r/t cc calypso green 93 mustang 5.0 lx hatch with a few goodies mike since you are evidently not interested in giving the fuel catalyst a test at my expense i have offered the opportunity to another mike in this forum who is willing to give it a try. i am anxious to hear his results! the commentary based upon your review of the enviromaxplus web page is awfully selective. i just hope that anyone who is sufficiently interested will take a look at that page and judge for themselves. jon i looked at the website and judged for myself. my selective review was selective because i overlooked the marketing hype. i was looking for factual info as to how the products works and why... it was very vague. after my last post i spent about twenty minutes reading the patent info and again found nothing of substance. its primary purpose was to demonstrate the uniqueness of the formulation rather than test results. the test results that were published in the patent were at best anecdotal. on that page a 10 minute video can be played hosted by johnny rutherford the guy who had a pretty respectable racing career. in it youll see an interview with a gentleman named larry mankin one with substantial credentials in the automotive field who agreed to evaluate the enviromaxplus product for the company. mr. mankins initial response was effectively yeah ill be happy to test it for you but it wont work. listen to what he said afterwards. jon given enough money people will say anything about anything.... a corporate spokesman means nothing. im from missouri show me test reults from an independent national recognized testing lab and then you will have my attention. by the way at first johnny rutherford didnt think the product was worth a bucket of warm spit either. after he finally agreed to give it a try in his country singer bus mr. rutherford became the product spokesman. and hes not the type who goes around lending his good name to anything that comes along. see above the point for all their experience and abilities sometimes even the experts can be wrong. remember that in 1899 charles h. duell commissioner of the u.s. office of patents declared everything that can be invented has been invented. keep an open mind. you are correct experts can and are wrong frequently. my mind is always open however the engineer in me coupled with my many years in the automotive industry have forced me to be a skeptic. you have no idea how many countless inventions potions etc. i have seen come to market only to succeed in one thing and that is to lighten the consumers wallet. i have gotta ask one question though.... if this product was as good as the manufacturer says why oh why hasnt one of the big oil companies jumped on this can you imagine the marketing advantage lets say exxonmobil would have if they could truthfully state that their product will give you 35% better fuel economy than shell bpamoco citgo conocophillips et al. they would own the market. dont you think that if something was available some big oil company would jump on it in a heartbeat also can you imagine the riches the inventor would glean from either selling outright or licensing his formulation to a big oil company certainly more money than could be made by schlepping a product on an obscure website or being sold in an mlm scheme. the pursuit of profit being the primary motivator of businessmen why hasnt one of the above scenarios taken place simply because the product doesnt work! i will now sit back and wait for the other mikes report. mike jon moser http//www.jonnymo.myextremeresearch.com/40k/enviromax.asp mike your snake oil anology is understandable. there are too many unsubstantiated claims out there regarding mileage and per

From : jon moser

ill bet the primary reason you got involved was the $$$ you could make. joe black 03 dakota 5.9 r/t cc calypso green 93 mustang 5.0 lx hatch with a few goodies yes i confess. on the other hand i do believe im doing it with something thats going to deliver great benefits for those who use it. otherwise i would not have gotten involved. .

From : trey

jon moser wrote ill bet the primary reason you got involved was the $$$ you could make. joe black 03 dakota 5.9 r/t cc calypso green 93 mustang 5.0 lx hatch with a few goodies yes i confess. on the other hand i do believe im doing it with something thats going to deliver great benefits for those who use it. otherwise i would not have gotten involved. i also admire the fact that you are still responding. and still arguing your point. normally people will spam the ng and move on and really not care. im sure that has to count for something. .

From : trey

jon moser wrote to respond to a couple of mike simmons points. yes some celebrities will say anything for a buck but i believe that johnny rutherford has earned a good public image over several decades and that he has more integrity than to make misrepresentations for money. regarding the oil companies its no secret among those involved in extreme research that the catalyst has been offered to one some or all of them and it has been rejected. that means one of two things. either the catalyst is worthless as several contributing to this forum think. or if the product does work as advertised it would mean the loss of billions in revenue as consumers would not have to buy as much gasoline or diesel. draw your own conclusions. the usual drill is that if a good product comes along that improves fuel efficientcy the oil companies will buy the pattent and then shelve it so no one else can use it. if they dont find it to be a threat to their income then they wont bother. .

From : trey

yes chevy is coming out with a 1500 hybrid http//www.chevrolet.com/silverado/ may be worth looking into. if a gain of 30% is true then that means i would be able to get 85 mpg on my 650cc motorcycle. dddd wrote i cant count the number of these amazing gas saving devices that i have seen advertized on tv in magazines and on the internet. everybody has some new technology that will improve gas mileage by 10-50 percent. i first heard about one when i worked in a service station when i was about 16 55 years ago. the guy demonstrated an oil enhancer that he swore increased horsepower by 50 percent. if you are really interested in better gas mileage get one of these new hybrids. i hear that someone is coming out with a hybrid pickup soon and when they do ill buy one. in fact any new vehicle that i buy in the future will be a hybrid. that is a proven method of getting much better mileage. the rest of the garbage is just snake oil as others have called it. dddd ill bet the primary reason you got involved was the $$$ you could make. joe black 03 dakota 5.9 r/t cc calypso green 93 mustang 5.0 lx hatch with a few goodies yes i confess. on the other hand i do believe im doing it with something thats going to deliver great benefits for those who use it. otherwise i would not have gotten involved. .

From : jon moser

heres an example of the basic economics as i see them relative to the fact that enviromaxplus is not being distributed via the most logical route the gas station. the cost of the emp fuel catalyst would be roughly 70 cents per ounce which treats 10 gallons of gas. that would constitute a hard cost to the refiner/marketer of 7 cents per gallon. including the emp catalyst if gas sells for $2.00 per gallon for regular unleaded the refiner/marketer might mark up the product by 15 cents. that would escalate the price to $2.15 per gallon. in the withoutemp scenario where the customer buys 11.5 gallons at $2.00 per the cost at the pump is $23.00. in the alternative withemp scenario where the customer gains 15% in gas mileage and only needs to buy 10 gallons at $2.15 per $21.50 is spent. the gross revenue lost at retail in this example is $1.50. the $64000 question if you were a refiner/marketer which scenario would you prefer presuming real free market competition i think that at least one refiner/marketer would go for it and their business peers would be forced to follow similar to what is happening with many retail goods hi-tech hardware and now even telecom. consumers would benefit. but for a variety of reasons we appear to have limited competition in the grand arena of refined fossil fuels. this particular industry is more of an oligopoly one in which little incentive exists for one company to try to seize market share from a competitor as i see it. thus a product like enviromaxplus doing what it claims has minimal appeal among those in the best position to distribute it. to my way of thinking thats the key reason that emp is now being network marketed an opportunity for individuals to empower themselves on one level or another. jon moser http//home.earthlink.net/jonnymo1/ ========================================= jon moser jonnymo1@earthlink.net wrote in to respond to a couple of mike simmons points. yes some celebrities will say anything for a buck but i believe that johnny rutherford has earned a good public image over several decades and that he has more integrity than to make misrepresentations for money. its all speculation. regarding the oil companies its no secret among those involved in extreme research that the catalyst has been offered to one some or all of them and it has been rejected. that means one of two things. either the catalyst is worthless as several contributing to this forum think. or if the product does work as advertised it would mean the loss of billions in revenue as consumers would not have to buy as much gasoline or diesel. draw your own conclusions. if the product worked as advertised and one of the oil companies bought it the loss from people buying less fuel due to the increased efficiency would me more than offset by the new customers theyd gain and the probable increase in price per gallon. 2 cents. joe black 03 dakota 5.9 r/t cc calypso green 93 mustang 5.0 lx hatch with a few goodies mike since you are evidently not interested in giving the fuel catalyst a test at my expense i have offered the opportunity to another mike in this forum who is willing to give it a try. i am anxious to hear his results! the commentary based upon your review of the enviromaxplus web page is awfully selective. i just hope that anyone who is sufficiently interested will take a look at that page and judge for themselves. jon i looked at the website and judged for myself. my selective review was selective because i overlooked the marketing hype. i was looking for factual info as to how the products works and why... it was very vague. after my last post i spent about twenty minutes reading the patent info and again found nothing of substance. its primary purpose was to demonstrate the uniqueness of the formulation rather than test results. the test results that were published in the patent were at best anecdotal. on that page a 10 minute video can be played hosted by johnny rutherford the guy who had a pretty respectable racing career. in it youll see an interview with a gentleman named larry mankin one with substantial credentials in the automotive field who agreed to evaluate the enviromaxplus product for the company. mr. mankins initial response was effectively yeah ill be happy to test it for you but it wont work. listen to what he said afterwards. jon given enough money people will say anything about anything.... a corporate spokesman means nothing. im from missouri show me test reults from an independent national recognized testing lab and then you will have my attention. by the way at first johnny rutherford didnt think the product was worth a bucket of warm spit either. after he finally agreed to give it a try in his country singer bus mr. rutherford became the product spokesman. and hes not the type who goes ar

From : trey

is that why it happened to my uncle then ok ill bite. what is the patent number of your uncles invention good question i will have to find that out for you. he lives back east so we dont talk much. give me a few days .

From : jon moser

sorry iman i simply dont agree with your conclusion. if enviromaxplus does become used on any kind of broad basis looking at the bigger picture it is going to mean that less gasoline and diesel is consumed. if you are interested in one view of the greater implications that this product can have on demand for fuel consumption and as a consequence on the dependence that exists today in the usa for foreign oil please read my article profitable patriotism. it can be accessed at http//home.earthlink.net/jonnymo1/id1.html it may sound like an impossible dream but im not the only one envisioning the possibility. it is the major reason im trying to turn others on to this product. jon moser jonnymo1@earthlink.net wrote in the withoutemp scenario where the customer buys 11.5 gallons at $2.00 per the cost at the pump is $23.00. in the alternative withemp scenario where the customer gains 15% in gas mileage and only needs to buy 10 gallons at $2.15 per $21.50 is spent. the gross revenue lost at retail in this example is $1.50. lost they still have 1.5 gallons @2.15 which im sure theyll manage to sell. .

From : jon moser

dont get me wrong there is nothing wrong in selling a product for a profit. just dont couch your spiel in an altruistic light when attempting to schlep your snake oil. mike if anyone wants a confession about my desire to make a living you have it. but it is also important to me to sell items that i believe in especially with confidence that the users of enviromaxplus are going to see benefits well beyond its cost. and some of those advantages accumulated across individuals will as i see it change the world for the better. so much for my altruism. there were many factors beyond making a buck that i considered before deciding to become involved in marketing the product. for all those who read this post please keep in mind that mike simmons was offered the opportunity to give emp a fair trial at no cost to him and he declined. for him to forgo that option having experience with the product and to continue dismissing emp as snake oil is disingenuous. healthy skepticism is one thing. sticking ones head in the sand is another. other people whove followed this discussion have indicated to me that they are willing to test the product so i will be getting free samples to at least a couple of them. and i presume that everyone here will be learning from them about their experience. .

From : high sierra

trey wrote snip the usual drill is that if a good product comes along that improves fuel efficientcy the oil companies will buy the pattent and then shelve it so no one else can use it. if they dont find it to be a threat to their income then they wont bother. this is one of the most famous urban legends. .

From : iman nassoul

jon moser jonnymo1@earthlink.net wrote in the withoutemp scenario where the customer buys 11.5 gallons at $2.00 per the cost at the pump is $23.00. in the alternative withemp scenario where the customer gains 15% in gas mileage and only needs to buy 10 gallons at $2.15 per $21.50 is spent. the gross revenue lost at retail in this example is $1.50. lost they still have 1.5 gallons @2.15 which im sure theyll manage to sell. .

From : jon moser

hell if it even improved mpg by 10% the oil companies foreign or domestic would pay millions for the patent... and then never produce it.. mac my sense is that the guys who produced the enviromaxplus product care a lot more about making a positive difference for consumers and the environment than to simply sell out their product for a ton of money and not have it used. that is one reason i decided to get involved with the product. emp is now marketed exclusively by extreme research but anyone can get a feeling for the attitude of the developers on their own web site http//www.maxmalc.com/ .

From : mac davis

on 21 aug 2004 180525 gmt joe avoidingspam@nospam.com wrote jon moser jonnymo1@earthlink.net wrote in to respond to a couple of mike simmons points. yes some celebrities will say anything for a buck but i believe that johnny rutherford has earned a good public image over several decades and that he has more integrity than to make misrepresentations for money. its all speculation. regarding the oil companies its no secret among those involved in extreme research that the catalyst has been offered to one some or all of them and it has been rejected. that means one of two things. either the catalyst is worthless as several contributing to this forum think. or if the product does work as advertised it would mean the loss of billions in revenue as consumers would not have to buy as much gasoline or diesel. draw your own conclusions. if the product worked as advertised and one of the oil companies bought it the loss from people buying less fuel due to the increased efficiency would me more than offset by the new customers theyd gain and the probable increase in price per gallon. 2 cents. joe black 03 dakota 5.9 r/t cc calypso green 93 mustang 5.0 lx hatch with a few goodies hell if it even improved mpg by 10% the oil companies foreign or domestic would pay millions for the patent... and then never produce it.. mac .

From : joe

jon moser jonnymo1@earthlink.net wrote in hell if it even improved mpg by 10% the oil companies foreign or domestic would pay millions for the patent... and then never produce it.. mac my sense is that the guys who produced the enviromaxplus product care a lot more about making a positive difference for consumers and the environment than to simply sell out their product for a ton of money and not have it used. that is one reason i decided to get involved with the product. emp is now marketed exclusively by extreme research but anyone can get a feeling for the attitude of the developers on their own web site http//www.maxmalc.com/ ill bet the primary reason you got involved was the $$$ you could make. joe black 03 dakota 5.9 r/t cc calypso green 93 mustang 5.0 lx hatch with a few goodies .

From : mike simmons

sorry iman i simply dont agree with your conclusion. if enviromaxplus does become used on any kind of broad basis looking at the bigger picture it is going to mean that less gasoline and diesel is consumed. if you are interested in one view of the greater implications that this product can have on demand for fuel consumption and as a consequence on the dependence that exists today in the usa for foreign oil please read my article profitable patriotism. it can be accessed at http//home.earthlink.net/jonnymo1/id1.html it may sound like an impossible dream but im not the only one envisioning the possibility. it is the major reason im trying to turn others on to this product. to be completely truthful the major reason you are trying to turn others on to the product is to make a buck! dont get me wrong there is nothing wrong in selling a product for a profit. just dont couch your spiel in an altruistic light when attempting to schlep your snake oil. mike jon moser jonnymo1@earthlink.net wrote in the withoutemp scenario where the customer buys 11.5 gallons at $2.00 per the cost at the pump is $23.00. in the alternative withemp scenario where the customer gains 15% in gas mileage and only needs to buy 10 gallons at $2.15 per $21.50 is spent. the gross revenue lost at retail in this example is $1.50. lost they still have 1.5 gallons @2.15 which im sure theyll manage to sell. .

From : grumman581

trey wrote ... i also admire the fact that you are still responding. and still arguing your point. normally people will spam the ng and move on and really not care. im sure that has to count for something. don quixote syndrome .

From : transurgeon

steve@carolinabreezehvac steve@removethis.carolinabreezehvac.com wrote dont get me wrong there is nothing wrong in selling a product for a profit. just dont couch your spiel in an altruistic light when attempting to schlep your snake oil. mike if anyone wants a confession about my desire to make a living you have it. but it is also important to me to sell items that i believe in especially with confidence that the users of enviromaxplus are going to see benefits well beyond its cost. and some of those advantages accumulated across individuals will as i see it change the world for the better. so much for my altruism. there were many factors beyond making a buck that i considered before deciding to become involved in marketing the product. for all those who read this post please keep in mind that mike simmons was offered the opportunity to give emp a fair trial at no cost to him and he declined. for him to forgo that option having experience with the product and to continue dismissing emp as snake oil is disingenuous. healthy skepticism is one thing. sticking ones head in the sand is another. mike simmons is fully aware of what the product is and what it does and does not do...as am i. i suggest before you start throwing terms like latent around you fully understand the term. also you might look up volumetric efficiency and find out why a few ounces of a product wont make much difference... other people whove followed this discussion have indicated to me that they are willing to test the product so i will be getting free samples to at least a couple of them. and i presume that everyone here will be learning from them about their experience. i have the ultimate test for you. i will run the product for two weeks in our service vans. these vans average now about 12mpg loaded. some weeks each truck will burn 2 perhaps 3 full tanks of fuel depending on the work load and locations. each tank is an average of 30 gallons. various makes one is carbed the rest of fi and various engine configs...inline 6s v-8s various displacements 400cid 350 cid 318 360.... you send enough product for a two week test trial. the initial start to the test will start the following monday after the product is received. a local tv station will record the results and will put the results together in a segment that they run that proves or dis-proves scams. either way you get a copy of the tape and everyone here can get a link that will put them to the vid. you agree in advance that your company will be insured with proof of insurance to cover any and all claims resulting from damage to the engine fuel system or any emissions related parts due to the use of this product. if it works you have one hell of a marketing tool. if it fails you have lot of splainin ta do and if you decline well..that says loads... if i was a betting man i would bet that you will find a way to decline this or spin it into something else. i mean...i can back up the products i sell...even put guarantees in addition to the factory warranty and stand behind them...the question is after all this spamming in here can you will you of course not you dont make the product...right lol well...since i dont expect you to take that offer thanks for reading but if you wont accept it simply post that you decline and leave the group. ouch ! thats gonna leave a mark ! .

From : milesh

jon moser wrote was enviromaxplus used in this test that you mention yes as were several other gimmicks. emp is an old product nothing new and no technological breakthru from what i have seen. for something that is so old youd surely expect to see some independent tests from reputable sources citing it. like k&n filters there are none. .

From : jerry

steve@carolinabreezehvac wrote steve@carolinabreezehvac wrote there is no spin on my side jerry altho you would love there to be. i dont care if you spin or not ........... just call it like i see it. if that bothers you oh well.......... jerry no sir..not at all but what i find amazing is that we argue as much as we do seeing as how there are only a few in here that think in the same fashion.... like it or not..you and i are closer in thought than you want to admit. course..the same could be said of myself as well... in some areas you are correct. in others not so sure...... jerry .

From : michael greenwood

actually the product is on its way. jon gave me a tracking number that confirms it. i should have it on 9/3. ill let everyone know how it goes. --mike i havent been a jerk..yet... really...roy can tell ya that... lol! well jon said a couple of days ago that he was shipping some product to me. so far no joy. but i wasnt in my office at all yesterday so it may actually be there. --mike steve@carolinabreezehvac steve@removethis.carolinabreezehvac.com wrote steve what website im giving the guy a break cause he really is trying. to make a buck...thats fine...but as judge judy said..dont piss on my leg and tell me its raining.. you keep saying website website wouldnt it be easier to just post the number or email it to him as i just told jerry..i havent even gotten a mail from the guy. i have his addy and i have the sent letter i sent him...but no answer. he says hes sending me product to test and i will. let us know how you like it...seriously. you should do the same and not be such a jerk about it. i havent been a jerk..yet... really...roy can tell ya that... --mike steve@carolinabreezehvac steve@removethis.carolinabreezehvac.com wrote on august 23 2004 you implied that you had a television station ready to test the enviromaxplus product. later on august 23 you said that you were . . . working out the details with a station right now. shortly afterwards on that same date you said that you had 4 stations in your area not to mention an additional one in california that were interested in doing the test. i sure did and until i get what *i* asked for you can figure out for yourself that it might be one of over 100 station in the tristate area... reading all of these changing conditions it was my decision not to bother the company with your request for any proof of insurance until you came through with the details that i initially requested regarding the one - or now apparently the several - television stations that you said you were lining up. in other words you know there is a big chance you will look like a fool. and you now want to spin it.. now you try to make a big issue out of not receiving a fax. interesting sidenote for everyone reading this you never even provided me with a fax number. any idiot can find my fax number...its real simple...its like....duh dood...on the website and after i asked for the fax i was waiting for you to show a little common sense and go the website that many other have found without being told...since its all right here in front of you and send it over with the information... i take that as a no...you cant get that information... especially after all of this blather given your clear bias against the product be assured that i will only conduct an evaluation in which you participate with a third party like a tv station that will ensure an adequate oversight of the test. if you do ever recruit a tv station by the way the product will be shipped to them not you. and if the test is ever done it will be ordered through maxim lc with a clear cut understanding of the claims you have made.. bottom line the balls still in your court pal. bullshit...but since you say that...the fax number is on the website....send it on or get gone... would you have a problem with the state attorney generals office getting involved just curious since i have read this and offered this in a state that looks really hard at wild ass claims... tell ya what...dont even bother answering that...if we run the test and it fails the results will be sent to them anyway...oh..you want their website information too try google. damn you are a dense one...hey man..i got a bridge in arizona for you to go sell... .

From : high sierra

trey wrote high sierra wrote trey wrote snip the usual drill is that if a good product comes along that improves fuel efficientcy the oil companies will buy the pattent and then shelve it so no one else can use it. if they dont find it to be a threat to their income then they wont bother. this is one of the most famous urban legends. is that why it happened to my uncle then ok ill bite. what is the patent number of your uncles invention .

From : steve carolinabreezehvac

dont get me wrong there is nothing wrong in selling a product for a profit. just dont couch your spiel in an altruistic light when attempting to schlep your snake oil. mike if anyone wants a confession about my desire to make a living you have it. but it is also important to me to sell items that i believe in especially with confidence that the users of enviromaxplus are going to see benefits well beyond its cost. and some of those advantages accumulated across individuals will as i see it change the world for the better. so much for my altruism. there were many factors beyond making a buck that i considered before deciding to become involved in marketing the product. for all those who read this post please keep in mind that mike simmons was offered the opportunity to give emp a fair trial at no cost to him and he declined. for him to forgo that option having experience with the product and to continue dismissing emp as snake oil is disingenuous. healthy skepticism is one thing. sticking ones head in the sand is another. mike simmons is fully aware of what the product is and what it does and does not do...as am i. i suggest before you start throwing terms like latent around you fully understand the term. also you might look up volumetric efficiency and find out why a few ounces of a product wont make much difference... other people whove followed this discussion have indicated to me that they are willing to test the product so i will be getting free samples to at least a couple of them. and i presume that everyone here will be learning from them about their experience. i have the ultimate test for you. i will run the product for two weeks in our service vans. these vans average now about 12mpg loaded. some weeks each truck will burn 2 perhaps 3 full tanks of fuel depending on the work load and locations. each tank is an average of 30 gallons. various makes one is carbed the rest of fi and various engine configs...inline 6s v-8s various displacements 400cid 350 cid 318 360.... you send enough product for a two week test trial. the initial start to the test will start the following monday after the product is received. a local tv station will record the results and will put the results together in a segment that they run that proves or dis-proves scams. either way you get a copy of the tape and everyone here can get a link that will put them to the vid. you agree in advance that your company will be insured with proof of insurance to cover any and all claims resulting from damage to the engine fuel system or any emissions related parts due to the use of this product. if it works you have one hell of a marketing tool. if it fails you have lot of splainin ta do and if you decline well..that says loads... if i was a betting man i would bet that you will find a way to decline this or spin it into something else. i mean...i can back up the products i sell...even put guarantees in addition to the factory warranty and stand behind them...the question is after all this spamming in here can you will you of course not you dont make the product...right lol well...since i dont expect you to take that offer thanks for reading but if you wont accept it simply post that you decline and leave the group. .

From : dddd

i cant count the number of these amazing gas saving devices that i have seen advertized on tv in magazines and on the internet. everybody has some new technology that will improve gas mileage by 10-50 percent. i first heard about one when i worked in a service station when i was about 16 55 years ago. the guy demonstrated an oil enhancer that he swore increased horsepower by 50 percent. if you are really interested in better gas mileage get one of these new hybrids. i hear that someone is coming out with a hybrid pickup soon and when they do ill buy one. in fact any new vehicle that i buy in the future will be a hybrid. that is a proven method of getting much better mileage. the rest of the garbage is just snake oil as others have called it. dddd ill bet the primary reason you got involved was the $$$ you could make. joe black 03 dakota 5.9 r/t cc calypso green 93 mustang 5.0 lx hatch with a few goodies yes i confess. on the other hand i do believe im doing it with something thats going to deliver great benefits for those who use it. otherwise i would not have gotten involved. .

From : jon moser

steve@carolinabreezehvac steve@removethis.carolinabreezehvac.com wrote i have the ultimate test for you. i will run the product for two weeks in our service vans. these vans average now about 12mpg loaded. some weeks each truck will burn 2 perhaps 3 full tanks of fuel depending on the work load and locations. each tank is an average of 30 gallons. various makes one is carbed the rest of fi and various engine configs...inline 6s v-8s various displacements 400cid 350 cid 318 360.... you send enough product for a two week test trial. the initial start to the test will start the following monday after the product is received. a local tv station will record the results and will put the results together in a segment that they run that proves or dis-proves scams. either way you get a copy of the tape and everyone here can get a link that will put them to the vid. you agree in advance that your company will be insured with proof of insurance to cover any and all claims resulting from damage to the engine fuel system or any emissions related parts due to the use of this product. if it works you have one hell of a marketing tool. if it fails you have lot of splainin ta do and if you decline well..that says loads... if i was a betting man i would bet that you will find a way to decline this or spin it into something else. i mean...i can back up the products i sell...even put guarantees in addition to the factory warranty and stand behind them...the question is after all this spamming in here can you will you of course not you dont make the product...right lol well...since i dont expect you to take that offer thanks for reading but if you wont accept it simply post that you decline and leave the group. thank you i welcome the opportunity. for the number of miles that your vehicles are being driven as i project them out a two week test would be fair. but lets get a few items clarified. given the 12 mpg average figure i presume that each of your service vans is running from around 1400 to 2200 miles per two week period correct that would mean each one typically requires somewhere in the range of 115 to 185 gallons of fuel over that time frame right how many vehicles are in your fleet will the vans be operated under the same basic circumstances during the pre test compared to the post test phase that is can you make the assurance there would be no meaningful differences in city versus road driving in terms of who is driving the vans that they would carry essentially the same loads that the use of any air conditioning would not vary substantially etc. do you have the authority to speak for the tv station that you say will document this test has their management already consented to do so what are their call letters out of what city do they broadcast who is the individual with the station that i can contact the company warrants specifically that the product will void no engine warranties. but by the end of today i should be able to get with one of the top managers in the company and obtain more detailed info on the insurance coverage question. hopefully ill able to notify this forum on the matter by early tomorrow. .

From : tbone

well steve it looks like your bluff was called. are you going to do it -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving steve@carolinabreezehvac steve@removethis.carolinabreezehvac.com wrote i have the ultimate test for you. i will run the product for two weeks in our service vans. these vans average now about 12mpg loaded. some weeks each truck will burn 2 perhaps 3 full tanks of fuel depending on the work load and locations. each tank is an average of 30 gallons. various makes one is carbed the rest of fi and various engine configs...inline 6s v-8s various displacements 400cid 350 cid 318 360.... you send enough product for a two week test trial. the initial start to the test will start the following monday after the product is received. a local tv station will record the results and will put the results together in a segment that they run that proves or dis-proves scams. either way you get a copy of the tape and everyone here can get a link that will put them to the vid. you agree in advance that your company will be insured with proof of insurance to cover any and all claims resulting from damage to the engine fuel system or any emissions related parts due to the use of this product. if it works you have one hell of a marketing tool. if it fails you have lot of splainin ta do and if you decline well..that says loads... if i was a betting man i would bet that you will find a way to decline this or spin it into something else. i mean...i can back up the products i sell...even put guarantees in addition to the factory warranty and stand behind them...the question is after all this spamming in here can you will you of course not you dont make the product...right lol well...since i dont expect you to take that offer thanks for reading but if you wont accept it simply post that you decline and leave the group. thank you i welcome the opportunity. for the number of miles that your vehicles are being driven as i project them out a two week test would be fair. but lets get a few items clarified. given the 12 mpg average figure i presume that each of your service vans is running from around 1400 to 2200 miles per two week period correct that would mean each one typically requires somewhere in the range of 115 to 185 gallons of fuel over that time frame right how many vehicles are in your fleet will the vans be operated under the same basic circumstances during the pre test compared to the post test phase that is can you make the assurance there would be no meaningful differences in city versus road driving in terms of who is driving the vans that they would carry essentially the same loads that the use of any air conditioning would not vary substantially etc. do you have the authority to speak for the tv station that you say will document this test has their management already consented to do so what are their call letters out of what city do they broadcast who is the individual with the station that i can contact the company warrants specifically that the product will void no engine warranties. but by the end of today i should be able to get with one of the top managers in the company and obtain more detailed info on the insurance coverage question. hopefully ill able to notify this forum on the matter by early tomorrow. .

From : high sierra

trey wrote is that why it happened to my uncle then ok ill bite. what is the patent number of your uncles invention good question i will have to find that out for you. he lives back east so we dont talk much. give me a few days ok ill wait. .

From : jon moser

i cant count the number of these amazing gas saving devices that i have seen advertized on tv in magazines and on the internet. everybody has some new technology that will improve gas mileage by 10-50 percent. i first heard about one when i worked in a service station when i was about 16 55 years ago. the guy demonstrated an oil enhancer that he swore increased horsepower by 50 percent. if you are really interested in better gas mileage get one of these new hybrids. i hear that someone is coming out with a hybrid pickup soon and when they do ill buy one. in fact any new vehicle that i buy in the future will be a hybrid. that is a proven method of getting much better mileage. the rest of the garbage is just snake oil as others have called it. dddd there have been many items over the years promising spectacular results. thats the biggest reason why there is all of this skepticism on the dodgetrucks forum many of whom have been in the automotive business and have seen it all. just understand that johnny rutherford had that same reaction before he finally agreed to try it. after he did he became its spokesman. so did larry mankin who agreed to test the product but told the developers it wont work. you should have heard the reaction from a very good friend of mine another person with extensive experience in the automotive field when i first discussed the enviromaxplus product with him. he nearly hit the roof. my background is not that of dddd but i can say from having reviewed various other web sites promoting all kinds of fuel saving items that the claims for emp impress me as being the most extensive and believable. anyone who is open minded enough to take a look can go to the emp page shown below. in the left hand column click on studies. afterwards you can see the testimonials listed in the same area. at the same time over the longer term i think emp will be one solution among many in the quest to decrease fuel consumption. the hybrids are one outstanding alternative. but how quickly and to what extent are they going to be a presence in the market emp is available for virtually everyone to use right now. jon moser http//www.jonnymo.myextremeresearch.com/40k/enviromax.asp .

From : steve carolinabreezehvac

well steve it looks like your bluff was called. are you going to do it yup....working out the details with a station now. they love this stuff since they have done about 4 already and none worked... this guys already buried himself in shit and i would love to make sure that anyone thats bought from him has legit reason to perhaps nail him. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving steve@carolinabreezehvac steve@removethis.carolinabreezehvac.com wrote i have the ultimate test for you. i will run the product for two weeks in our service vans. these vans average now about 12mpg loaded. some weeks each truck will burn 2 perhaps 3 full tanks of fuel depending on the work load and locations. each tank is an average of 30 gallons. various makes one is carbed the rest of fi and various engine configs...inline 6s v-8s various displacements 400cid 350 cid 318 360.... you send enough product for a two week test trial. the initial start to the test will start the following monday after the product is received. a local tv station will record the results and will put the results together in a segment that they run that proves or dis-proves scams. either way you get a copy of the tape and everyone here can get a link that will put them to the vid. you agree in advance that your company will be insured with proof of insurance to cover any and all claims resulting from damage to the engine fuel system or any emissions related parts due to the use of this product. if it works you have one hell of a marketing tool. if it fails you have lot of splainin ta do and if you decline well..that says loads... if i was a betting man i would bet that you will find a way to decline this or spin it into something else. i mean...i can back up the products i sell...even put guarantees in addition to the factory warranty and stand behind them...the question is after all this spamming in here can you will you of course not you dont make the product...right lol well...since i dont expect you to take that offer thanks for reading but if you wont accept it simply post that you decline and leave the group. thank you i welcome the opportunity. for the number of miles that your vehicles are being driven as i project them out a two week test would be fair. but lets get a few items clarified. given the 12 mpg average figure i presume that each of your service vans is running from around 1400 to 2200 miles per two week period correct that would mean each one typically requires somewhere in the range of 115 to 185 gallons of fuel over that time frame right how many vehicles are in your fleet will the vans be operated under the same basic circumstances during the pre test compared to the post test phase that is can you make the assurance there would be no meaningful differences in city versus road driving in terms of who is driving the vans that they would carry essentially the same loads that the use of any air conditioning would not vary substantially etc. do you have the authority to speak for the tv station that you say will document this test has their management already consented to do so what are their call letters out of what city do they broadcast who is the individual with the station that i can contact the company warrants specifically that the product will void no engine warranties. but by the end of today i should be able to get with one of the top managers in the company and obtain more detailed info on the insurance coverage question. hopefully ill able to notify this forum on the matter by early tomorrow. .

From : tbonetbone

cool i look forward to seeing the results. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving steve@carolinabreezehvac steve@removethis.carolinabreezehvac.com wrote well steve it looks like your bluff was called. are you going to do it yup....working out the details with a station now. they love this stuff since they have done about 4 already and none worked... this guys already buried himself in shit and i would love to make sure that anyone thats bought from him has legit reason to perhaps nail him. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving steve@carolinabreezehvac steve@removethis.carolinabreezehvac.com wrote i have the ultimate test for you. i will run the product for two weeks in our service vans. these vans average now about 12mpg loaded. some weeks each truck will burn 2 perhaps 3 full tanks of fuel depending on the work load and locations. each tank is an average of 30 gallons. various makes one is carbed the rest of fi and various engine configs...inline 6s v-8s various displacements 400cid 350 cid 318 360.... you send enough product for a two week test trial. the initial start to the test will start the following monday after the product is received. a local tv station will record the results and will put the results together in a segment that they run that proves or dis-proves scams. either way you get a copy of the tape and everyone here can get a link that will put them to the vid. you agree in advance that your company will be insured with proof of insurance to cover any and all claims resulting from damage to the engine fuel system or any emissions related parts due to the use of this product. if it works you have one hell of a marketing tool. if it fails you have lot of splainin ta do and if you decline well..that says loads... if i was a betting man i would bet that you will find a way to decline this or spin it into something else. i mean...i can back up the products i sell...even put guarantees in addition to the factory warranty and stand behind them...the question is after all this spamming in here can you will you of course not you dont make the product...right lol well...since i dont expect you to take that offer thanks for reading but if you wont accept it simply post that you decline and leave the group. thank you i welcome the opportunity. for the number of miles that your vehicles are being driven as i project them out a two week test would be fair. but lets get a few items clarified. given the 12 mpg average figure i presume that each of your service vans is running from around 1400 to 2200 miles per two week period correct that would mean each one typically requires somewhere in the range of 115 to 185 gallons of fuel over that time frame right how many vehicles are in your fleet will the vans be operated under the same basic circumstances during the pre test compared to the post test phase that is can you make the assurance there would be no meaningful differences in city versus road driving in terms of who is driving the vans that they would carry essentially the same loads that the use of any air conditioning would not vary substantially etc. do you have the authority to speak for the tv station that you say will document this test has their management already consented to do so what are their call letters out of what city do they broadcast who is the individual with the station that i can contact the company warrants specifically that the product will void no engine warranties. but by the end of today i should be able to get with one of the top managers in the company and obtain more detailed info on the insurance coverage question. hopefully ill able to notify this forum on the matter by early tomorrow. .

From : steve carolinabreezehvac

steve@carolinabreezehvac steve@removethis.carolinabreezehvac.com wrote i have the ultimate test for you. i will run the product for two weeks in our service vans. these vans average now about 12mpg loaded. some weeks each truck will burn 2 perhaps 3 full tanks of fuel depending on the work load and locations. each tank is an average of 30 gallons. various makes one is carbed the rest of fi and various engine configs...inline 6s v-8s various displacements 400cid 350 cid 318 360.... you send enough product for a two week test trial. the initial start to the test will start the following monday after the product is received. a local tv station will record the results and will put the results together in a segment that they run that proves or dis-proves scams. either way you get a copy of the tape and everyone here can get a link that will put them to the vid. you agree in advance that your company will be insured with proof of insurance to cover any and all claims resulting from damage to the engine fuel system or any emissions related parts due to the use of this product. if it works you have one hell of a marketing tool. if it fails you have lot of splainin ta do and if you decline well..that says loads... if i was a betting man i would bet that you will find a way to decline this or spin it into something else. i mean...i can back up the products i sell...even put guarantees in addition to the factory warranty and stand behind them...the question is after all this spamming in here can you will you of course not you dont make the product...right lol well...since i dont expect you to take that offer thanks for reading but if you wont accept it simply post that you decline and leave the group. thank you i welcome the opportunity. for the number of miles that your vehicles are being driven as i project them out a two week test would be fair. but lets get a few items clarified. if you mean you set the rules no way. since in the real world where your product will be working its gonna be real world testing... slick50 agreed to it and look at that lawsuit.... given the 12 mpg average figure i presume that each of your service vans is running from around 1400 to 2200 miles per two week period correct that would mean each one typically requires somewhere in the range of 115 to 185 gallons of fuel over that time frame right depends...but the numbers are close. sometimes more sometimes less..the new dodge that is about 4 months old and had 230 miles on it when we bought it now has over 16000 miles on it. how many vehicles are in your fleet currently 10. will the vans be operated under the same basic circumstances during the pre test compared to the post test phase that is can you make the assurance there would be no meaningful differences in city versus road driving in terms of who is driving the vans that they would carry essentially the same loads that the use of any air conditioning would not vary substantially etc. real world fella...meaning since i cant tell you where the next call will come from i cant tell you where the vans will be dispatched. if you think for one second i am gonna have the guys drive up and down i40 all 14 days think again. do you have the authority to speak for the tv station that you say will document this test has their management already consented to do so what are their call letters out of what city do they broadcast who is the individual with the station that i can contact kinda...sorta... i have already contacted the 4 stations i had in mind and all 4 are interested since this is an odd case where an person like myself is willing to play guniea pig for the sake of proving this stuff wont work. they really got interested when i told them we could run out 5 tanks in one of the hemis in 2 days....and the anglia would be a perfect candidate for the test as well...i mean...4mpg is 4mpg... the stations i contacted actually cover most of nc...one station i contacted is in southern ca....i know a few people there....and seeing as how fuel prices there are so high..well...lets say i might be on to something. the company warrants specifically that the product will void no engine warranties. but by the end of today i should be able to get with one of the top managers in the company and obtain more detailed info on the insurance coverage question. hopefully ill able to notify this forum on the matter by early tomorrow. that would be great.... i would be interested in getting that faxed to me as well with the name of the companys contact person and attorney. .

From : trey

question. in many fleet opperations they do not run the gas tank down to e then refill. at work they will run anywhere from 1/4 tank to half a tank on a shift then just top it off at the end of the shift. so how do you know how much enviromax to add to the tank and how is it added if its left to the workers/drivers it will never get done. .

From : jon moser

0807am mr. steve@carolinabreezehvac states regarding his apparent willingness to provide his fleet to assess enviromaxplus a local tv station will record the results and will put the results together in a segment that they run that proves or dis-proves scams on 082304 at 1011am i then asked steve@carolinabreezehvac the question regarding the television station what are their call letters out of what city do they broadcast who is the individual with the station that i can contact on 082304 at 635 pm steve@carolinabreezehvac responded to that specific inquiry kinda...sorta...i have already contacted the 4 stations i had in mind and all 4 are interested since this is an odd case where an person like myself is willing to play guniea pig for the sake of proving this stuff wont work. they really got interested when i told them we could run out 5 tanks in one of the hemis in 2 days....and the anglia would be a perfect candidate for the test as well...i mean...4mpg is 4mpg...the stations i contacted actually cover most of nc...one station i contacted is in southern ca....i know a few people there....and seeing as how fuel prices there are so high..well...lets say i might be on to something. huh . . . duh you made the representation that you had a tv station lined up to oversee this test of enviromaxplus. i merely asked for some contact info not a bunch of gooblydgook. where is it jon moser http//home.earthlink.net/jonnymo1/ ================================== steve@carolinabreezehvac steve@removethis.carolinabreezehvac.com wrote steve@carolinabreezehvac steve@removethis.carolinabreezehvac.com wrote i have the ultimate test for you. i will run the product for two weeks in our service vans. these vans average now about 12mpg loaded. some weeks each truck will burn 2 perhaps 3 full tanks of fuel depending on the work load and locations. each tank is an average of 30 gallons. various makes one is carbed the rest of fi and various engine configs...inline 6s v-8s various displacements 400cid 350 cid 318 360.... you send enough product for a two week test trial. the initial start to the test will start the following monday after the product is received. a local tv station will record the results and will put the results together in a segment that they run that proves or dis-pro

From : grumman581

ratio...or is that higher hmmm... lower ratio like a 4.10 compared to a 3.55 but larger numerically. junkyard axles with a better ratio is a good idea if you want better mileage. gawd those old 880s were horses to drive . . .i miss them . . . . i do 65 and 70 a lot. second its full-time four wheel drive. bet i can tell you where you gas mileage is going . . . . . . if you could leave earlier and drive 05-55 you mileage would raise considerably. its gvwr is 8000 pounds. the military rates it as a 1 ton. yep and itll haul it too that rating is the armys off-road load limit. for example a 5 ton 6 x 6 dump truck was rated 10000 lbs off-road but 20000 lbs highway. i plain forgot about the ambulance body weight earlier . . . . so you gonna make a camper out of it btw now you know why it has stiffer suspension than a regular w-150. finally i drilled a hole in the wall the other day to mount a fire extinguisher. iraqi sand came out of the wall. i wonder how much more is in there did you declare improt duty on that sand inspect it for rusts of massive destruction so budd while i would appreciate steps needed to eek out a few miles per gallon....understand this is no ordinary ambulance. lol! i agree!!! i wish id had one for a motorcycle hillclimb event i worked in 74. a friend had to be laid in just a pickup bed when he broke his leg in a spill at the 100 foot mark. oh and one more thing. i have a small oil pressure problem. it operates at a littlittle over 100 p.s.i. like...i peg it. ive replaced the sensor the guage and the wire so i think i really is gettin 100 p.s.i. look at your next paragraph rislone. isnt that one of thick gooey motor oil additives guess where your high pressure is coming from. i dont use any oil additives and the old d-150 carried 75-85 psi cold and 35-40 warm at 1000 rpm. get rid of the additives and rebuild the engine if it needs it. itll help your mileage also since it takes horsepower to pump that thin grease ive run rislone etc and its always the same. it doesnt burn oil. it doesnt have blow-by. it never comes close to overheating.....but it does blow oil out the little plate to the right of the carb intake and it continues no matter what kind of sealant i use. thats the fault of the rislone probably. if the engine doesnt need it why buy it think about it. my thinking is that this particular vehicle was a desert storm i special lol! made especially for extreme conditions-converted while in service. and yes i know my math and 1977 doesnt equate to 1990..... quite possibly it was as there are still some in use in the national guard / reserve units. like i said a good vehicle. btw i still have an ignition key to one. well it was the key to my 64 valiant but it was the same pattern. go for it budd!...and i thank you! its what im here for. . 222 288115 scywc.2181$qa3.1143@01.roc.ny which are three more injuries than our current president has you know the one who put our soldiers in a situation that he was unwilling to do. clinton did the same and you praised him. hypocrite. budd .

From : steve carolinabreezehvac

jon moser wrote ... check it out at spam-url-snipped fuckin pyramid marketing scheme... sounds like amway... if it was worth a fuck theyd make it for aircraft... i suspect that their liability insurance would shudder at the thought of that... oh i forgot its basically just alcohol... cant have alcohol in my aircrafts fuel system... save yourself some money and go up to wal-mart and buy a bottle of rubbing alcohol and pour in your tank... .

From : trey

and the spring. now jack the axle up until theres a bit of tension on it. make sure everything is square then install and torque the new u-bolts. repeat this for the other side and youre all set. is lifting it one inch noticeable or should i go for two take a jack and a tape measure. raise the truck up an inch and see if its noticeable. i doubt it would be. bolts does that make the job much more difficult nope - actually it probably makes it easier since you dont have to worry about fouling up the old u-bolts when removing them. if theyre rusted too badly you can always cut them off. does anyone know where i can find iron/steel blocks when i installed a set of blocks on a friends ram we went over to the local 4x4 place and bought a set of trailmaster blocks. they were iron they welded like iron put it that way . yes stay away from aluminum. . 222 288126 4uzwc.2180$y%3.1247@read2..atl.earthlink.net remove the old strap hardware and all and have a sheet metal shop whip out a new on seems like an easy repair to me. or just go down to home depot and get a length of flat bar stock. use the old strap or borrow the front as a template for the slotted end and cut the slots with an angle-grinder. bend it into shape a vise and a hammer make very acceptable bends and drill a hole in the other end to fit over the threaded stud. voila - gas tank strap. .

From : high sierra

yugoslavia. he could have kept us out of that mess. you have the most selective memory ive ever seen. budd which are three more injuries than our current president has you know the one who put our soldiers in a situation that he was unwilling to do. clinton did the same and you praised him. hypocrite. budd where when exactly what war were we in during clintons time in office -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : jon moser

i think that ill count the number of unprovoked attacks. lol you are truly a business novice. youve never heard of the demand going far beyond market test results have you or test market test rusults not including half a state when the planned market was to be one small city lol so what having orders beyond production capability is usually a good thing. why would you ever need to expand if this were not true expansion needs planning or it can ruin a business. besides too many orders for a part time business is not good for customer relations. then like i said poor planning on your part caused the buisness to fail. poor planning huh you werent there you cannot know what transpired. btw to choose to close rather than expand without evidence that the business would continue to grow that is go several thousands in debt on a market not determined to be viable andd stable is good business operation. ive seen several small businesses fail by expanding where there was no stable market. then dont expand. what is so hard about that. if you are the sole employee of your private comapny you simply could have refused the excess orders or raised you prices to cut demand. and it was also my choice to make to not risk my familys security on that unstable market. i had the credit line for the loans i had space available on a free loan basis and i had a line of tools located but the choice to close was my choice based on the fact there wasnt any concrete evidence of stability. iow you were chicken. to leave when on top is not failure. unless you are talking about sports or had another place better to go yes it is. in the first case the tests showed a potential for sales volume of only about $5k / mo. when it went over $10k my supplier couldnt meet the demand. iow it wasnt my fault. yes it was for having only one supplier to begin with. you also didnt set up you test cases properly to be 100% off on your numbers lol. idiot. i was under contract with only one supplier and there was an exclusion clause in the contract they refused to drop. as a result i could close the business reopen with another supplier or close the business completely. no other options. idiot am i and who was the one who signed a contract with no escape clause for the supplier not being able to keep up with demand. again tom you werent there at the time. for you to continue judging my actions as you have is very presumptious of you if not plain rude. why would i have to be there to know this the clause at the time and in the location of their headquarters was legal. never said that it wasnt but you were still an idiot for signing it. in the second case i planned for homemade wooden toys to be sold locally and while that lasted no probs. had about $4k in sales /mo. when relaitives from across the state of my local customers started ordering i was caught without the tooling and equipment. i guess it would be my fault if you call using my profits to live on my fault since i didnt plan on expanding any. it was to be part time only tom. this makes no since. why would being unable to fill orders put you out of business. you were obviously charging too little if you had no money to expand with and a bad business plan. why didnt you just refuse some of the orders your comprehension skills are extremely lacking ya know. it was part time!!!! so what what does that have to do with anything you wouldnt understand tom. i could put it in pictures and it would mean nothing to you. your right i dont understand and you are not explaining it either. it was after my heart surgery and i was still recovering so i couldnt upgrade production. i couldnt afford on part time money buy bigger bandsaws drill presses etc. then you should have raised your prices to either reduce demand of give you the funding to upgrade equipment. btw what type of toys did you make see you missed the clue. tell us tom what is so hard about recovering from heart surgery do you not understand could it be you missed that part because of your own lust for money what does lust for money have to do with it how exactly did nt being able to keep up with orders put you out of buisness what freaking part of that cant you understand idiot lol now budd calm down and take a chill pill. we dont want to send you back to the hospital over something like this. well gee tom. maybe if you could learn to remember for more than 30 seconds whats been said figure out how get help if needed to understand what has been said and learn how to continue a conversation without backstabs and nips about various things you consider to be weapons to protect your ego there would be no need for a chill pill. sorry budd but both of these things were your fault because neither one had a any type of plan to deal with

From : yofuri

stonewalling wont work. you obviously read and comprehend adequately. http//www.theautochannel.com/n//date/19970508/002297.html%7blf%7d rick was enviromaxplus used in this test that you mention snip .

From : jon moser

question. in many fleet opperations they do not run the gas tank down to e then refill. at work they will run anywhere from 1/4 tank to half a tank on a shift then just top it off at the end of the shift. so how do you know how much enviromax to add to the tank and how is it added if its left to the workers/drivers it will never get done. ============================ emp is a liquid which is added to the fuel. the first time enviromaxplus is used the best way is to top off and then to add one ounce for every 5 gallons of gas tank capacity. so for a 20 gallon tank 4 ounces would be added. after that for every 5 gallons of gas dispensed simply ad 1 ounce. this is the initial dosage recommended for 3 to 5 tankfuls. after that the maintenence dosage is 1 ounce for every 10 gallons. your are right if employees are charged with the responsibility of adding emp to their vehicles and dont do it then its an exercise in futility. if an organization operating a fleet fuels from their own tanks the above ratios of product can simply be added at that point which seems like the most desirable way to make sure it gets in vehicles. .

From : milesh

this stuff has been out for many years. a local station here did do some tests on it as well as other mpg gimmick devices such as the tornado device. in all cases no gains were seen. i remember watching their segment a couple years ago. as i recall they ran the tests at phoenix international raceway so the mpg results would be considered highway. they drove small economy cars as well as suvs. i believe it was channel 3 in phoenix that did the tests but cant be certain. jon moser wrote emp is a liquid which is added to the fuel. the first time enviromaxplus is used the best way is to top off and then to add one ounce for every 5 gallons of gas tank capacity. so for a 20 gallon tank 4 ounces would be added. after that for every 5 gallons of gas dispensed simply ad 1 ounce. this is the initial dosage recommended for 3 to 5 tankfuls. after that the maintenence dosage is 1 ounce for every 10 gallons. your are right if employees are charged with the responsibility of adding emp to their vehicles and dont do it then its an exercise in futility. if an organization operating a fleet fuels from their own tanks the above ratios of product can simply be added at that point which seems like the most desirable way to make sure it gets in vehicles. .

From : yofuri

http//www.theautochannel.com/n//date/19970508/002297.html%7blf%7d what were the results rick this stuff has been out for many years. a local station here did do some tests on it as well as other mpg gimmick devices such as the tornado device. in all cases no gains were seen. i remember watching their segment a couple years ago. as i recall they ran the tests at phoenix international raceway so the mpg results would be considered highway. they drove small economy cars as well as suvs. i believe it was channel 3 in phoenix that did the tests but cant be certain. jon moser wrote emp is a liquid which is added to the fuel. the first time enviromaxplus is used the best way is to top off and then to add one ounce for every 5 gallons of gas tank capacity. so for a 20 gallon tank 4 ounces would be added. after that for every 5 gallons of gas dispensed simply ad 1 ounce. this is the initial dosage recommended for 3 to 5 tankfuls. after that the maintenence dosage is 1 ounce for every 10 gallons. your are right if employees are charged with the responsibility of adding emp to their vehicles and dont do it then its an exercise in futility. if an organization operating a fleet fuels from their own tanks the above ratios of product can simply be added at that point which seems like the most desirable way to make sure it gets in vehicles. .

From : transurgeon

0807am mr. steve@carolinabreezehvac states regarding his apparent willingness to provide his fleet to assess enviromaxplus a local tv station will record the results and will put the results together in a segment that they run that proves or dis-proves scams on 082304 at 1011am i then asked steve@carolinabreezehvac the question regarding the television station what are their call letters out of what city do they broadcast who is the individual with the station that i can contact on 082304 at 635 pm steve@carolinabreezehvac responded to that specific inquiry kinda...sorta...i have already contacted the 4 stations i had in mind and all 4 are interested since this is an odd case where an person like myself is willing to play guniea pig for the sake of proving this stuff wont work. they really got interested when i told them we could run out 5 tanks in one of the hemis in 2 days....and the anglia would be a perfect candidate for the test as well...i mean...4mpg is 4mpg...the stations i contacted actually cover most of nc...one station i contacted is in southern ca....i know a few people there....and seeing as how fuel prices there are so high..well...lets say i might be on to something. huh . . . duh you made the representation that you had a tv station lined up to oversee this test of enviromaxplus. i merely asked for some contact info not a bunch of gooblydgook. where is it what part of hes working on setting it up is too hard for you to comprehend hell let you know when its finalized............unless youve already shit your pants cause your bluff was called............. .

From : transurgeon

hell let you know when its finalized............unless youve already shit your pants cause your bluff was called............. my apologies if i was a little to hard on the guy in my post last night. but in his initial challenge he definitely gave me the impression that he already had a television station lined up for this. and no i havent yet but i am about ready to use your crude phrase to shit my pants. if whats his name does in fact get one - or four - television stations to cover this evaluation ill be elated because you cant buy this kind of publicity. the bottom line all i want is that the fairest most objective test of the emp product be conducted. well then best that you just shut up and let him line up the test im sure hell get it done after all he has a full-time business to run too .

From : jon moser

was enviromaxplus used in this test that you mention this stuff has been out for many years. a local station here did do some tests on it as well as other mpg gimmick devices such as the tornado device. in all cases no gains were seen. i remember watching their segment a couple years ago. as i recall they ran the tests at phoenix international raceway so the mpg results would be considered highway. they drove small economy cars as well as suvs. i believe it was channel 3 in phoenix that did the tests but cant be certain. jon moser wrote emp is a liquid which is added to the fuel. the first time enviromaxplus is used the best way is to top off and then to add one ounce for every 5 gallons of gas tank capacity. so for a 20 gallon tank 4 ounces would be added. after that for every 5 gallons of gas dispensed simply ad 1 ounce. this is the initial dosage recommended for 3 to 5 tankfuls. after that the maintenence dosage is 1 ounce for every 10 gallons. your are right if employees are charged with the responsibility of adding emp to their vehicles and dont do it then its an exercise in futility. if an organization operating a fleet fuels from their own tanks the above ratios of product can simply be added at that point which seems like the most desirable way to make sure it gets in vehicles. .

From : jon moser

hell let you know when its finalized............unless youve already shit your pants cause your bluff was called............. my apologies if i was a little to hard on the guy in my post last night. but in his initial challenge he definitely gave me the impression that he already had a television station lined up for this. and no i havent yet but i am about ready to use your crude phrase to shit my pants. if whats his name does in fact get one - or four - television stations to cover this evaluation ill be elated because you cant buy this kind of publicity. the bottom line all i want is that the fairest most objective test of the emp product be conducted. .

From : yofuri

this appears to be the only track record this outfit and its principals have accumulated http//www.usps.com/judicial/1998deci/fr97-167.htm http//www.zip-codes-latitude-longitude.com/bulletins/21969-24.htm rick this stuff has been out for many years. a local station here did do some tests on it as well as other mpg gimmick devices such as the tornado device. in all cases no gains were seen. i remember watching their segment a couple years ago. as i recall they ran the tests at phoenix international raceway so the mpg results would be considered highway. they drove small economy cars as well as suvs. i believe it was channel 3 in phoenix that did the tests but cant be certain. snip .

From : jon moser

in an extensive search of the web this afternoon i not able to find any specific source validating the claim that enviromaxplus among other products claiming to save fuel was tested at phoenix international raceway with one of the local tv stations documenting it. if there is some reference available please provide it to this forum. this stuff has been out for many years. a local station here did do some tests on it as well as other mpg gimmick devices such as the tornado device. in all cases no gains were seen. i remember watching their segment a couple years ago. as i recall they ran the tests at phoenix international raceway so the mpg results would be considered highway. they drove small economy cars as well as suvs. i believe it was channel 3 in phoenix that did the tests but cant be certain. .

From : mike simmons

this appears to be the only track record this outfit and its principals have accumulated http//www.usps.com/judicial/1998deci/fr97-167.htm http//www.zip-codes-latitude-longitude.com/bulletins/21969-24.htm rick imagine that... pyramid marketing.... lottery scheme..... quite a track record... sure sounds like snake-oil to me! cute name though.... h.o.p.e. you invests your money in the product and hope it works..... he... he... he.... what did i tell ya... a name change and suddenly its environment friendly its being responsible with our resources... its.... its.... its.... pardon the cynic in me but its bullshit! mike this stuff has been out for many years. a local station here did do some tests on it as well as other mpg gimmick devices such as the tornado device. in all cases no gains were seen. i remember watching their segment a couple years ago. as i recall they ran the tests at phoenix international raceway so the mpg results would be considered highway. they drove small economy cars as well as suvs. i believe it was channel 3 in phoenix that did the tests but cant be certain. snip .

From : miles

jon moser wrote in an extensive search of the web this afternoon i not able to find any specific source validating the claim that enviromaxplus among other products claiming to save fuel was tested at phoenix international raceway with one of the local tv stations documenting it. if there is some reference available please provide it to this forum. i dont think they tried to document it for the internet. it was a local phoenix broadcast. i saw it and thats all that matters to me. now if you could please provide a link to a reputable independent non-biased test of this product i would be happy to view it. again this product is quite old. nothing new so if these independent tests exist they should be easy to find. .

From : jon moser

well then best that you just shut up and let him line up the test im sure hell get it done after all he has a full-time business to run too mr. transurgeon it shouldnt make any difference whether i shut up or not as to whether your boy is able to line up his one - or five - tv stations for this test were talking about. as the businessman that you say he is he should be smart enough to prioritize his time knowing that the value of the exposure gained would serve his enterprise quite well. .

From : yofuri

why mike how could you be so cruel and callous possibly my fault since i didnt give the whole track record. the enviromax plus name hasnt changed since 1997 when it was allegedly endorsed by 3-time indy winner johnny rutherford. http//www.theautochannel.com/n//date/19970508/002297.html%7blf%7d refers; preciously cited. here are the results of the indy run http//www.indy500.com/stats/results.phpraceyear=1997 bottom of the page. speaking of cruel and callous here are some comments from those days http//cageyconsumer.com/hope.html rick this appears to be the only track record this outfit and its principals have accumulated http//www.usps.com/judicial/1998deci/fr97-167.htm http//www.zip-codes-latitude-longitude.com/bulletins/21969-24.htm rick imagine that... pyramid marketing.... lottery scheme..... quite a track record... sure sounds like snake-oil to me! cute name though.... h.o.p.e. you invests your money in the product and hope it works..... he... he... he.... what did i tell ya... a name change and suddenly its environment friendly its being responsible with our resources... its.... its.... its.... pardon the cynic in me but its bullshit! mike this stuff has been out for many years. a local station here did do some tests on it as well as other mpg gimmick devices such as the tornado device. in all cases no gains were seen. i remember watching their segment a couple years ago. as i recall they ran the tests at phoenix international raceway so the mpg results would be considered highway. they drove small economy cars as well as suvs. i believe it was channel 3 in phoenix that did the tests but cant be certain. snip .

From : denny

mike has jon made any attempt to get your address so he could send you a sample to try i has been almost a week since you posted that you would give it a try so i would think if jon was serious on the offer the product should have been sent out to you by now. denny miles i took jon up on his offer. if he sends me product free of charge i will run an unbiased test on it. i would love for it to work much the same as miracle weight loss pills g. i will report here when i receive the product during and after the test. if it costs me nothing i have nothing to lose right since hes unlike most other hucksters that spam and flee the group i figure id give it a shot. --mike jon moser wrote in an extensive search of the web this afternoon i not able to find any specific source validating the claim that enviromaxplus among other products claiming to save fuel was tested at phoenix international raceway with one of the local tv stations documenting it. if there is some reference available please provide it to this forum. i dont think they tried to document it for the internet. it was a local phoenix broadcast. i saw it and thats all that matters to me. now if you could please provide a link to a reputable independent non-biased test of this product i would be happy to view it. again this product is quite old. nothing new so if these independent tests exist they should be easy to find. .

From : grumman581

this appears to be the only track record this outfit and its principals have accumulated http//www.usps.com/judicial/1998deci/fr97-167.htm of note the scheme lacks the elements of a legitimate business enterprise and we think there was no error in holding it to be a lottery within the meaning of the statute. indeed we think that no scheme of investment which must ultimately and inevitably result in failure can be called a legitimate business enterprise. like i said a fuckin pyramid scheme... .

From : jon moser

yes i have. at 658pm mst on 082204 i sent this message to what i believe is his email address hi mike please let me know where to send the sample of emp that you indicated you were interested in trying. all i ask is that you do a fair test that you know what your mileage is prior to using the product and that your vehicle will be driven under the same basic circumstances during the test phase as it was before. if you are no longer interested thats fine. there are a couple of others from the dodgetrucks group who are willing to give it a go. also earlier in this forum i remember posting a message asking for address information. i have not heard back from him to date. mike has jon made any attempt to get your address so he could send you a sample to try i has been almost a week since you posted that you would give it a try so i would think if jon was serious on the offer the product should have been sent out to you by now. denny miles i took jon up on his offer. if he sends me product free of charge i will run an unbiased test on it. i would love for it to work much the same as miracle weight loss pills g. i will report here when i receive the product during and after the test. if it costs me nothing i have nothing to lose right since hes unlike most other hucksters that spam and flee the group i figure id give it a shot. --mike jon moser wrote in an extensive search of the web this afternoon i not able to find any specific source validating the claim that enviromaxplus among other products claiming to save fuel was tested at phoenix international raceway with one of the local tv stations documenting it. if there is some reference available please provide it to this forum. i dont think they tried to document it for the internet. it was a local phoenix broadcast. i saw it and thats all that matters to me. now if you could please provide a link to a reputable independent non-biased test of this product i would be happy to view it. again this product is quite old. nothing new so if these independent tests exist they should be easy to find. .

From : jon moser

my understanding is that extreme research corporation acquired the exclusive marketing rights to the enviromaxplus product this year or late last year. this other corporation that this gentleman is referring to to the very best of my knowledge has absolutely nothing to do with extreme research or its principals. unless someone has evidence to the contrary it is wrong to suggest that such a relationship exists. this appears to be the only track record this outfit and its principals have accumulated http//www.usps.com/judicial/1998deci/fr97-167.htm of note the scheme lacks the elements of a legitimate business enterprise and we think there was no error in holding it to be a lottery within the meaning of the statute. indeed we think that no scheme of investment which must ultimately and inevitably result in failure can be called a legitimate business enterprise. like i said a fuckin pyramid scheme... .

From : transurgeon

well then best that you just shut up and let him line up the test im sure hell get it done after all he has a full-time business to run too mr. transurgeon it shouldnt make any difference whether i shut up or not as to whether your boy is able to line up his one - or five - tv stations for this test were talking about. as the businessman that you say he is he should be smart enough to prioritize his time knowing that the value of the exposure gained would serve his enterprise quite well. my my touchy touchy arent we whats the problem getting a case of nerves .

From : tbone

well then best that you just shut up and let him line up the test im sure hell get it done after all he has a full-time business to run too mr. transurgeon it shouldnt make any difference whether i shut up or not as to whether your boy is able to line up his one - or five - tv stations for this test were talking about. as the businessman that you say he is he should be smart enough to prioritize his time knowing that the value of the exposure gained would serve his enterprise quite well. my my touchy touchy arent we whats the problem getting a case of nerves no it is probably more to the tune of you jumping in and making an asshole out of yourself again. perhaps you should mind your own business and let steve take care of it himself or do you think of him as incapable of doing so -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : yofuri

i heartily concur. just to save time getting to where the rubber meets the road start with the last one http//www.heavenstreasure.myextremeresearch.com/comp.asp and read the notes and warnings highlighted in red. then evaluate your newfound enthusiasm for the program here http//www.fraudsandscams.com/pyramid.htm rick regarding the message below from yofuri i would encourage anyone who is interested to take the time to look at every link that he has listed and to judge for themselves. oh this one http//aaaworkathomebiz.com/extremeresearch.html http//www.bizopps4u.biz/ is the president mark seyforth also president of marketing systems usa inc. theyre big on cards too http//www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mim0ein/is2001june12/ai75465199 a degree in criminal justice now thats really helpful in marketing especially combined with the expertise of a vp who developed ronco of seen only on tv fame http//mike.myextremeresearch.com/leaders.asp and be careful grumman-581 or youll miss your chance to share in heavens treasures http//www.heavenstreasure.myextremeresearch.com/comp.asp rick snip .

From : yofuri

oh this one http//aaaworkathomebiz.com/extremeresearch.html http//www.bizopps4u.biz/ is the president mark seyforth also president of marketing systems usa inc. theyre big on cards too http//www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mim0ein/is2001june12/ai75465199 a degree in criminal justice now thats really helpful in marketing especially combined with the expertise of a vp who developed ronco of seen only on tv fame http//mike.myextremeresearch.com/leaders.asp and be careful grumman-581 or youll miss your chance to share in heavens treasures http//www.heavenstreasure.myextremeresearch.com/comp.asp rick my understanding is that extreme research corporation acquired the exclusive marketing rights to the enviromaxplus product this year or late last year. this other corporation that this gentleman is referring to to the very best of my knowledge has absolutely nothing to do with extreme research or its principals. unless someone has evidence to the contrary it is wrong to suggest that such a relationship exists. this appears to be the only track record this outfit and its principals have accumulated http//www.usps.com/judicial/1998deci/fr97-167.htm of note the scheme lacks the elements of a legitimate business enterprise and we think there was no error in holding it to be a lottery within the meaning of the statute. indeed we think that no scheme of investment which must ultimately and inevitably result in failure can be called a legitimate business enterprise. like i said a fuckin pyramid scheme... .

From : mgg

hi denny has jon made any attempt to get your address so he could send you a sample to try i has been almost a week since you posted that you would give it a try so i would think if jon was serious on the offer the product should have been sent out to you by now. yes and heres his response -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= hey mike your open minded attitude about the enviromaxplus product is appreciated. to date i have gotten one public and another private request for test samples all coming from the dodgetrucks forum. giving away samples on a person to person basis along with personal use i dont have a lot of inventory available but i will try to get some product to you my sense is that you are one gentleman who pays attention to your vehicle its costs and its performance. with all the people ive been talking to you might be surprised at how many really dont. one of the reasons that i posted my message on the dodgetrucks group i thought i would encounter the skeptics and that they would provide blatantly unbridled but still qualified opinions. well i got more than i hoped for. but thats ok its been a valuable learning experience. ill let you know when i can get you some emp. the biggest deal is that your evaluation be as variable neutral as possible meaning that your vehicle is driven under the same basic conditons during the pre-test compared to the post-test. best regards jon moser -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= so....im just waiting now. --mike mike has jon made any attempt to get your address so he could send you a sample to try i has been almost a week since you posted that you would give it a try so i would think if jon was serious on the offer the product should have been sent out to you by now. denny miles i took jon up on his offer. if he sends me product free of charge i will run an unbiased test on it. i would love for it to work much the same as miracle weight loss pills g. i will report here when i receive the product during and after the test. if it costs me nothing i have nothing to lose right since hes unlike most other hucksters that spam and flee the group i figure id give it a shot. --mike jon moser wrote in an extensive search of the web this afternoon i not able to find any specific source validating the claim that enviromaxplus among other products claiming to save fuel was tested at phoenix international raceway with one of the local tv stations documenting it. if there is some reference available please provide it to this forum. i dont think they tried to document it for the internet. it was a local phoenix broadcast. i saw it and thats all that matters to me. now if you could please provide a link to a reputable independent non-biased test of this product i would be happy to view it. again this product is quite old. nothing new so if these independent tests exist they should be easy to find. .

From : mgg

also earlier in this forum i remember posting a message asking for address information. i have not heard back from him to date. huh i replied 8/21/2004 @ 127pm -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- hi jon ill be honest im as skeptical as other in the group but im more than willing to give it a fair shot. i drive an 03 ram 2500 quad cab with the 5.7l hemi. currently im averaging 10.9mpg with a mixture of around town and highway. ill tell you...the reason im doing this is because most hucksters spam the groups and are never heard from again. you on the other hand hung around and replied to comments. so...here we are. you can ship the product to -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- you replied with what i posted to denny. --mike yes i have. at 658pm mst on 082204 i sent this message to what i believe is his email address hi mike please let me know where to send the sample of emp that you indicated you were interested in trying. all i ask is that you do a fair test that you know what your mileage is prior to using the product and that your vehicle will be driven under the same basic circumstances during the test phase as it was before. if you are no longer interested thats fine. there are a couple of others from the dodgetrucks group who are willing to give it a go. also earlier in this forum i remember posting a message asking for address information. i have not heard back from him to date. mike has jon made any attempt to get your address so he could send you a sample to try i has been almost a week since you posted that you would give it a try so i would think if jon was serious on the offer the product should have been sent out to you by now. denny miles i took jon up on his offer. if he sends me product free of charge i will run an unbiased test on it. i would love for it to work much the same as miracle weight loss pills g. i will report here when i receive the product during and after the test. if it costs me nothing i have nothing to lose right since hes unlike most other hucksters that spam and flee the group i figure id give it a shot. --mike jon moser wrote in an extensive search of the web this afternoon i not able to find any specific source validating the claim that enviromaxplus among other products claiming to save fuel was tested at phoenix international raceway with one of the local tv stations documenting it. if there is some reference available please provide it to this forum. i dont think they tried to document it for the internet. it was a local phoenix broadcast. i saw it and thats all that matters to me. now if you could please provide a link to a reputable independent non-biased test of this product i would be happy to view it. again this product is quite old. nothing new so if these independent tests exist they should be easy to find. .

From : jon moser

mike sorry i didnt realize you were mgg. ill have a sample of emp shipped to you tomorrow. hi denny has jon made any attempt to get your address so he could send you a sample to try i has been almost a week since you posted that you would give it a try so i would think if jon was serious on the offer the product should have been sent out to you by now. yes and heres his response -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= hey mike your open minded attitude about the enviromaxplus product is appreciated. to date i have gotten one public and another private request for test samples all coming from the dodgetrucks forum. giving away samples on a person to person basis along with personal use i dont have a lot of inventory available but i will try to get some product to you my sense is that you are one gentleman who pays attention to your vehicle its costs and its performance. with all the people ive been talking to you might be surprised at how many really dont. one of the reasons that i posted my message on the dodgetrucks group i thought i would encounter the skeptics and that they would provide blatantly unbridled but still qualified opinions. well i got more than i hoped for. but thats ok its been a valuable learning experience. ill let you know when i can get you some emp. the biggest deal is that your evaluation be as variable neutral as possible meaning that your vehicle is driven under the same basic conditons during the pre-test compared to the post-test. best regards jon moser -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= so....im just waiting now. --mike mike has jon made any attempt to get your address so he could send you a sample to try i has been almost a week since you posted that you would give it a try so i would think if jon was serious on the offer the product should have been sent out to you by now. denny miles i took jon up on his offer. if he sends me product free of charge i will run an unbiased test on it. i would love for it to work much the same as miracle weight loss pills g. i will report here when i receive the product during and after the test. if it costs me nothing i have nothing to lose right since hes unlike most other hucksters that spam and flee the group i figure id give it a shot. --mike jon moser wrote in an extensive search of the web this afternoon i not able to find any specific source validating the claim that enviromaxplus among other products claiming to save fuel was tested at phoenix international raceway with one of the local tv stations documenting it. if there is some reference available please provide it to this forum. i dont think they tried to document it for the internet. it was a local phoenix broadcast. i saw it and thats all that matters to me. now if you could please provide a link to a reputable independent non-biased test of this product i would be happy to view it. again this product is quite old. nothing new so if these independent tests exist they should be easy to find. .

From : michael greenwood

sorry i didnt realize you were mgg. ill have a sample of emp shipped to you tomorrow. no problem. i look forward to it. --mike mike sorry i didnt realize you were mgg. ill have a sample of emp shipped to you tomorrow. hi denny has jon made any attempt to get your address so he could send you a sample to try i has been almost a week since you posted that you would give it a try so i would think if jon was serious on the offer the product should have been sent out to you by now. yes and heres his response -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= hey mike your open minded attitude about the enviromaxplus product is appreciated. to date i have gotten one public and another private request for test samples all coming from the dodgetrucks forum. giving away samples on a person to person basis along with personal use i dont have a lot of inventory available but i will try to get some product to you my sense is that you are one gentleman who pays attention to your vehicle its costs and its performance. with all the people ive been talking to you might be surprised at how many really dont. one of the reasons that i posted my message on the dodgetrucks group i thought i would encounter the skeptics and that they would provide blatantly unbridled but still qualified opinions. well i got more than i hoped for. but thats ok its been a valuable learning experience. ill let you know when i can get you some emp. the biggest deal is that your evaluation be as variable neutral as possible meaning that your vehicle is driven under the same basic conditons during the pre-test compared to the post-test. best regards jon moser -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= so....im just waiting now. --mike mike has jon made any attempt to get your address so he could send you a sample to try i has been almost a week since you posted that you would give it a try so i would think if jon was serious on the offer the product should have been sent out to you by now. denny miles i took jon up on his offer. if he sends me product free of charge i will run an unbiased test on it. i would love for it to work much the same as miracle weight loss pills g. i will report here when i receive the product during and after the test. if it costs me nothing i have nothing to lose right since hes unlike most other hucksters that spam and flee the group i figure id give it a shot. --mike jon moser wrote in an extensive search of the web this afternoon i not able to find any specific source validating the claim that enviromaxplus among other products claiming to save fuel was tested at phoenix international raceway with one of the local tv stations documenting it. if there is some reference available please provide it to this forum. i dont think they tried to document it for the internet. it was a local phoenix broadcast. i saw it and thats all that matters to me. now if you could please provide a link to a reputable independent non-biased test of this product i would be happy to view it. again this product is quite old. nothing new so if these independent tests exist they should be easy to find. .

From : jon moser

regarding the message below from yofuri i would encourage anyone who is interested to take the time to look at every link that he has listed and to judge for themselves. oh this one http//aaaworkathomebiz.com/extremeresearch.html http//www.bizopps4u.biz/ is the president mark seyforth also president of marketing systems usa inc. theyre big on cards too http//www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mim0ein/is2001june12/ai75465199 a degree in criminal justice now thats really helpful in marketing especially combined with the expertise of a vp who developed ronco of seen only on tv fame http//mike.myextremeresearch.com/leaders.asp and be careful grumman-581 or youll miss your chance to share in heavens treasures http//www.heavenstreasure.myextremeresearch.com/comp.asp rick my understanding is that extreme research corporation acquired the exclusive marketing rights to the enviromaxplus product this year or late last year. this other corporation that this gentleman is referring to to the very best of my knowledge has absolutely nothing to do with extreme research or its principals. unless someone has evidence to the contrary it is wrong to suggest that such a relationship exists. this appears to be the only track record this outfit and its principals have accumulated http//www.usps.com/judicial/1998deci/fr97-167.htm of note the scheme lacks the elements of a legitimate business enterprise and we think there was no error in holding it to be a lottery within the meaning of the statute. indeed we think that no scheme of investment which must ultimately and inevitably result in failure can be called a legitimate business enterprise. like i said a fuckin pyramid scheme... .

From : dddd

maybe i just dont understand the math but if you have so many co-partners and co-co-partners etc. and you make money on every one of their sales the co-partners at the bottom of the pyramid must have to sell the product at about 10 times the price of those in the middle. its all academic though since i cant see anyone except the mentally challanged accepting the offer to buy into the scheme. dddd i heartily concur. just to save time getting to where the rubber meets the road start with the last one http//www.heavenstreasure.myextremeresearch.com/comp.asp and read the notes and warnings highlighted in red. then evaluate your newfound enthusiasm for the program here http//www.fraudsandscams.com/pyramid.htm rick regarding the message below from yofuri i would encourage anyone who is interested to take the time to look at every link that he has listed and to judge for themselves. oh this one http//aaaworkathomebiz.com/extremeresearch.html http//www.bizopps4u.biz/ is the president mark seyforth also president of marketing systems usa inc. theyre big on cards too http//www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mim0ein/is2001june12/ai75465199 a degree in criminal justice now thats really helpful in marketing especially combined with the expertise of a vp who developed ronco of seen only on tv fame http//mike.myextremeresearch.com/leaders.asp and be careful grumman-581 or youll miss your chance to share in heavens treasures http//www.heavenstreasure.myextremeresearch.com/comp.asp rick snip .

From : denny

............and even with a finite population on the planet there is never a shortage of idiots... but tell me why all the idiots are located in ohio........... denny .

From : grumman581

yofuri wrote ... and be careful grumman-581 or youll miss your chance to share in heavens treasures http//www.heavenstreasure.myextremeresearch.com/comp.asp it was obvious from the start that they basically put each of their snake oil sellers as part of their domain in the format of snake-oil-sales-handle.myextremeresearch.com... this allows the snake-oil-spammers to post their domain and anyone else who is stupid enough to get into this pyramid scheme would be contributing to the previous snake-oil-spammers income... it might actually be a successful scam since it only requires finding more and more idiots to contribute to the pyramid scheme and even with a finite population on the planet there is never a shortage of idiots... .

From : trey

from their web site q how does enviro-max plus emp work a. when emp is incorporated into a fuel mixture it enables combustion to occur at lower temperatures sooo. it lowers the octane rating is that what they mean just being introduced to the market 1994 http//groups.google.com/groupsq=fuel+catalyst&hl=en&lr=&ie=utf-8&selm=2sqfu3%24rg6%40search01..aol.com&rnum=5 what makes this gimic different if i bought every kind of catalyst out there for my truck there would not be any room in the tank for gas! you know what your right! i did do something about the high gas prices... i got a smaller truck! i carpool i park the truck and go inside to eat instead of sitting in my truck letting it idle while i wait in the drive though. if i ahve to drive somewhere if it can wait until off peak traffic hours then i will wait. and sometimes... i will... walk! -gasp!- oh i know! but it can be done! yes some do have to drive a lot for work. but for the rest of us that are just buring extra gas we can make a difference. jon moser wrote there is an amazing affordable and easy to use fuel catalyst that is just being introduced to the market. merely as a customer you can save significant money. if you want to go a step beyond you can make money helping others save money using a simple referral process. check it out at http//www.jonnymo.myextremeresearch.com/40k/enviromax.asp if you would like to have a handy fuel mileage calculator in ms excel format free for the asking you can request it by going to http//home.earthlink.net/jonnymo1/ . .

From : milesh

if they can sell this stuff then why couldnt i sell my latest invention. i invented dehydrated water tablets for hikers. less weight to carry. jon moser wrote there is an amazing affordable and easy to use fuel catalyst that is just being introduced to the market. merely as a customer you can save significant money. if you want to go a step beyond you can make money helping others save money using a simple referral process. check it out at http//www.jonnymo.myextremeresearch.com/40k/enviromax.asp if you would like to have a handy fuel mileage calculator in ms excel format free for the asking you can request it by going to http//home.earthlink.net/jonnymo1/ . .

From : budd cochran

spammer!!! a load of spam. earthlink doesnt approve btw. .

From : transurgeon

budd unless you are writing as a representative of earthlink lets let them make the decision as to what is spam. it seems to me that the discussion that we have going here has stimulated some well conceived commentary. oh look ! we have a new net-nanny .

From : jon moser

thanks loads glad ive finally achieved some status in this world. budd unless you are writing as a representative of earthlink lets let them make the decision as to what is spam. it seems to me that the discussion that we have going here has stimulated some well conceived commentary. oh look ! we have a new net-nanny .

From : jon moser

treys skepticism is understandable and appreciated. i have been around cars and exorbitant claims long enough that i didnt get involved in extreme research and enviromaxplus without doing a lot of homework. the design of the enviromaxplus product revolves around the release of latent energy found in all fuels. i am aware of numerous people who have indicated that they switched from super premium fuel supposedly required for their vehicles to regular unleaded. using enviromaxplus they still achieved improvements in mileage and performance. my own conclusion is that octane aint all its cracked up to be. apparently octane is far from the only factor in the equation when it comes to improving mileage and performance. treys statement that there are similar products on the market is true. as i have pursued this business i have come across a number of them. anyone interested enough to take a look at some of them can email me - jonmosero@msn.com - and ill be happy to put together and forward my list of links. all things considered i still think that emp is the best product available today. eventually though we may find that a couple or a number of products will work well in combination. that should be good for everybody. the reference that trey makes to a google link is about a product that apparently has wide distribution in retail outlets. to the very best of my knowledge that particular company has nothing to do with enviromaxplus or the extreme research corporation. whether that item is great or not i cant say because i have never used it. when i went to that companys web site i was not able to find any specific references regarding improved mileage. what i can say is that enviromaxplus has documented its claims. the other solutions that trey poses as actions against high gas prices are entirely appropriate and they are things that we all should be doing. but that doesnt mandate the rejection of one more viable alternative. heres to all of us thinking hard and working together for the best energy solutions possible. jon moser http//home.earthlink.net/jonnymo1/ from their web site q how does enviro-max plus emp work a. when emp is incorporated into a fuel mixture it enables combustion to occur at lower temperatures sooo. it lowers the octane rating is that what they mean just being introduced to the market 1994 http//groups.google.com/groupsq=fuel+catalyst&hl=en&lr=&ie=utf-8&selm=2sqfu3%24rg6%40search01..aol.com&rnum=5 what makes this gimic different if i bought every kind of catalyst out there for my truck there would not be any room in the tank for gas! you know what your right! i did do something about the high gas prices... i got a smaller truck! i carpool i park the truck and go inside to eat instead of sitting in my truck letting it idle while i wait in the drive though. if i ahve to drive somewhere if it can wait until off peak traffic hours then i will wait. and sometimes... i will... walk! -gasp!- oh i know! but it can be done! yes some do have to drive a lot for work. but for the rest of us that are just buring extra gas we can make a difference. jon moser wrote there is an amazing affordable and easy to use fuel catalyst that is just being introduced to the market. merely as a customer you can save significant money. if you want to go a step beyond you can make money helping others save money using a simple referral process. check it out at http//www.jonnymo.myextremeresearch.com/40k/enviromax.asp if you would like to have a handy fuel mileage calculator in ms excel format free for the asking you can request it by going to http//home.earthlink.net/jonnymo1/ . .