Where is Tran Control Module, Airbag module (2001 Ram) ????
From : mopar man
Q: i want to unplug the tcm and the airbag module from the wiring/control bus. 2001 ram 2wd short cab 318 5.2l with upgraded interior. there is a small plastic cover on the tranny hump under the dashboard held with 2 screws. i take that off and theres a big connector right there attached to something. is that the airbag controller if so then wheres the tranny controller the hvac cluster also has about 2 or 3 connectors which i unplugged. i unplugged 2 connectors on the brake unit i take it this is the abs controller. i unplugged the 3 cables going to the pcm. i unplugged the drl module. i still get no bus message and ccd message on the overhead console. where the hell else is this bus going to !!! does anyone know which pins on the 2 cluster connectors is this bus is it 2 wires or one does it go to the odb connector .
Replies:
From : maxpower
i want to unplug the tcm and the airbag module from the wiring/control bus. 2001 ram 2wd short cab 318 5.2l with upgraded interior. there is a small plastic cover on the tranny hump under the dashboard held with 2 screws. i take that off and theres a big connector right there attached to something. is that the airbag controller if so then wheres the tranny controller the hvac cluster also has about 2 or 3 connectors which i unplugged. i unplugged 2 connectors on the brake unit i take it this is the abs controller. i unplugged the 3 cables going to the pcm. i unplugged the drl module. i still get no bus message and ccd message on the overhead console. where the hell else is this bus going to !!! does anyone know which pins on the 2 cluster connectors is this bus is it 2 wires or one does it go to the odb connector you really dont know what you are doing and could be causing more problems for the person that is going to end up working on it after you soldered and disconnected things. as i said before if you have a total bus loss it may be caused by the pcm which would be covered under the 8/80 warranty. why not take it to the shop and explain to them what you have done so they can fix it. the bus is a set of wires that all the computers communicate with. if a module is shorted out it could cause all the modules to lose communication with each other. if you have a connector that is loose or a wire that is pulled out as i stated before that could also cause a bus failure. you would have to use a volt meter to measure the bus voltage on each module to see where the problem is or have a scan tool connected as you disconnect each module one at a time until you locate the problem. if you probe a wrong wire with a volt meter and it happens to be an air bag/air module wire you could deploy the air bags possibly causing injury to you or the vehicle. sorry no help here. glenn beasley chrysler tech .
From : mopar man
maxpower wrote you really dont know what you are doing and could be causing more problems for the person that is going to end up working on it after you soldered and disconnected things. i called the service dept at a dodge dealership and described the problem. the guy said that something is messing up the data bus and the only way to diagnose it is to unplug the various modules on the bus. he thinks its probably the cluster itself - but would that explain the ccd message on the overhead console or the fact that initially the engine would crank but wouldnt start unless im wrong ccd stands for chrysler collision detection and is the data bus system used by the airbag and the anti-lock brake systems. is the overhead console connected to those systems via the cluster or around bypassing the cluster as i said before if you have a total bus loss it may be caused by the pcm which would be covered under the 8/80 warranty. the glove-box owners manual says to check a smaller booklet for warrany information. the smaller warranty booklet 2001 canadian warranties and roadside assistance says that everything except tires is covered by a 3-year 60000 km warranty. if it has a diesel engine which it does not then some engine parts are covered by a 5 year 160000 km warranty. outer body panels are covered against corrosion for 5 years/160k. the booklet goes on to say that for cars and light-duty trucks the defect warranty covers the following major emission-control parts for 8 years or 130000 km catalytic convertor powertrain control module. a small half-page flyer five star protection - 5/100 coverage for 2001 models - powertrain components - roadside assistance lists items that are covered after the initial 3/60 warranty ends. these items are many engine parts no electronic parts transmission including tcm front and/or rear drive parts and roadside assistance. so the short answer is that unless this is a pcm problem it *may* be covered on the basis that the pcm might be defective from an emmission-control point of view and the 8-year warranty for that aspect hasnt yet expired. but by all indications all other electronic parts or wiring problems are no longer covered the 5-year point would have been reached this past march or april. according to a chrysler parts dept guy a pcm costs $1050 cdn which is equivalent to around $850 - $900 usd. you mentioned earlier to check connector c130. when looking at the circuit diagrams in the haynes manual i cant see anything labeled as c130. i can see a c129 and c133 i think c133 is the big connector under the dash and c131 fender-mounted daytime running lights module. the manual is wrong in that it shows all guages and indicator lights as having direct connections to the two cluster connectors c215 and c216 but other than the high-beam lamps the general illumination lamps and maybe the seat-belt and parking-brake lamps everything else is driven by the electronics on the cluster circuit board. the manual shows that c215 and c216 are 14 pin connectors while in reality on my cluster theyre 10 pin each. i am getting 12 volts at those connectors and also getting a lower voltage 10 and 11 on a couple of other pins. where can i get the real pin-out for the cluster connectors if the problem is in the air-bag control unit then is that covered under any non-specified warranty .
From : maxpower
maxpower wrote you really dont know what you are doing and could be causing more problems for the person that is going to end up working on it after you soldered and disconnected things. i called the service dept at a dodge dealership and described the problem. the guy said that something is messing up the data bus and the only way to diagnose it is to unplug the various modules on the bus. he thinks its probably the cluster itself - but would that explain the ccd message on the overhead console or the fact that initially the engine would crank but wouldnt start unless im wrong ccd stands for chrysler collision detection and is the data bus system used by the airbag and the anti-lock brake systems. is the overhead console connected to those systems via the cluster or around bypassing the cluster as i said before if you have a total bus loss it may be caused by the pcm which would be covered under the 8/80 warranty. the glove-box owners manual says to check a smaller booklet for warrany information. the smaller warranty booklet 2001 canadian warranties and roadside assistance says that everything except tires is covered by a 3-year 60000 km warranty. if it has a diesel engine which it does not then some engine parts are covered by a 5 year 160000 km warranty. outer body panels are covered against corrosion for 5 years/160k. the booklet goes on to say that for cars and light-duty trucks the defect warranty covers the following major emission-control parts for 8 years or 130000 km catalytic convertor powertrain control module. a small half-page flyer five star protection - 5/100 coverage for 2001 models - powertrain components - roadside assistance lists items that are covered after the initial 3/60 warranty ends. these items are many engine parts no electronic parts transmission including tcm front and/or rear drive parts and roadside assistance. so the short answer is that unless this is a pcm problem it *may* be covered on the basis that the pcm might be defective from an emmission-control point of view and the 8-year warranty for that aspect hasnt yet expired. but by all indications all other electronic parts or wiring problems are no longer covered the 5-year point would have been reached this past march or april. according to a chrysler parts dept guy a pcm costs $1050 cdn which is equivalent to around $850 - $900 usd. you mentioned earlier to check connector c130. when looking at the circuit diagrams in the haynes manual i cant see anything labeled as c130. i can see a c129 and c133 i think c133 is the big connector under the dash and c131 fender-mounted daytime running lights module. the manual is wrong in that it shows all guages and indicator lights as having direct connections to the two cluster connectors c215 and c216 but other than the high-beam lamps the general illumination lamps and maybe the seat-belt and parking-brake lamps everything else is driven by the electronics on the cluster circuit board. the manual shows that c215 and c216 are 14 pin connectors while in reality on my cluster theyre 10 pin each. i am getting 12 volts at those connectors and also getting a lower voltage 10 and 11 on a couple of other pins. where can i get the real pin-out for the cluster connectors if the problem is in the air-bag control unit then is that covered under any non-specified warranty not to give you a hard time but you have no idea what is going on with that vehicle. you are totally lost and that haynes book you are using is causing you more problems then anything. the best thing for you to do with that book is to use it for heat in the fireplace come winter time. the bus system is very complicated and for someone that is not the least bit familiar with it should not attempt to repair it. this is my last reply to this post. im sorry glenn .
From : mopar man
update after disconnecting every connector i could find and turning the ignition to on after disconnecting each connector the no bus and ccd messages did not go away. still no-one will tell me where the tcm is but ill look under the truck for that next. so i connected everything back and still got no bus and ccd. ok so if the problem is the cluster then lets remove the cluster. then turn the key to ignition. nope. the overhead console is still displaying ccd even with no cluster plugged in. truck starts and runs fine without the cluster too. ive also had the overhead unit unplugged and still got the no bus message on the cluster so it doesnt seem that theres a problem with that unit. glenn - if you can provide any help at all please tell me what code p1687 is in more detail than the following p1687 p1687 driver 5 line 7 alternate descriptions no cluster bus message no j1850 messages received from the mechanical instrument cluster mic module no mic bus message no ccd/j1850 messages received from the mechanical instrument cluster mic module no messages received from the mechanical instrument cluster module .
From : tom lawrence
unless im wrong ccd stands for chrysler collision detection and is the data bus system used by the airbag and the anti-lock brake systems. is the overhead console connected to those systems via the cluster or around bypassing the cluster yes thats what it stands for - but collision in this case has nothing to do with a vehicle impacting something... its describing the method for dealing with contention on the bus. just like ethernet uses collision detection that doesnt mean the hubs and switches are slamming into each other. just about every control module has a ccd bus connection - thats how everything talks to each other. the overhead console is on the ccd bus which is where it gets its information regarding fuel economy odometer readings etc. also - there is no separate transmission control module. all transmission control is performed by the pcm. you mentioned earlier to check connector c130. when looking at the circuit diagrams in the haynes manual i cant see anything labeled as c130. thats because the haynes manual is just about worthless when it comes to the electrical system. if you really want to go at this yourself buy a factory service manual. sometimes you can find them on ebay or you can always get one from http//www.techauthority.daimlerchrysler.com c130 is the big 43-pin connector in the power distribution center. c134 is the even-bigger 74-pin connector in the lower drivers-side firewall - its where the entire instrument panel wiring harness connects to and passes through the firewall. you disconnect it by unbolting it from the passenger compartment side its got a bolt in the center of it. .
From : maxpower
i want to unplug the tcm and the airbag module from the wiring/control bus. 2001 ram 2wd short cab 318 5.2l with upgraded interior. there is a small plastic cover on the tranny hump under the dashboard held with 2 screws. i take that off and theres a big connector right there attached to something. is that the airbag controller if so then wheres the tranny controller the hvac cluster also has about 2 or 3 connectors which i unplugged. i unplugged 2 connectors on the brake unit i take it this is the abs controller. i unplugged the 3 cables going to the pcm. i unplugged the drl module. i still get no bus message and ccd message on the overhead console. where the hell else is this bus going to !!! does anyone know which pins on the 2 cluster connectors is this bus is it 2 wires or one does it go to the odb connector p1687 no communication with the mic mechanical instrument cluster and as i stated in my first reply you need to verify if this is a total bus failure or just simply a component issue. for instance the gages can drop out if there is a bus failure if the cluster itself lost power or ground or if there is an internal cluster or pcm failure. also the gages can drop out if the ccd bus is shorted.. all of the modules talk back and forth over the ccd bus. if anyone of the modules connecters or ccd bus wires get shorted to power shorted to ground or shorted to each other or internally module then the whole bus communication system will stop. in turn all modules/components that are dependant on receiving the necessary bus messages will not operate. for instance the gages and overhead need the information from the pcm. a loose ground for anyone of the module can also cause a corruption in the ccd bus. the mic mechanical instrument cluster is what creates the bus voltage. the ccd bus voltage should 2.5 volts you can use a dvom and check this at the data link connecter. if the mic has failed there will be no bus communication between the modules. the ccd bus cannot cause a die-out condition. the no bus may appear in the odometer and the truck may stall if the pcm is lost locked up ok do this first check to see if you have 2.5volts at pin 3 vt/br wire of the data link connector and pin 11 wt/bk at the data link connector the data link connector is the connector that the scan tool connects to under the dash by your knee if you dont have 2.5 volts on both wires then using an ohm meter battery disconnected remove the cluster and test for continuity from pin#3 of the data link connector to pin number 10 of the cluster connector vt/br wire. then check pin#11 of the data link connector to pin 9 of the cluster wt/bk of the cluster for continuity. if both of those wires are good and you still dont have 2.5 volts check for 12v at pin#6 of cluster. .
From : mopar man
maxpower wrote where the hell else is this bus going to !!! does anyone know which pins on the 2 cluster connectors is this bus is it 2 wires or one p1687 no communication with the mic mechanical instrument cluster and as i stated in my first reply you need to verify if this is a total bus failure or just simply a component issue. for the brief time that the pcm was talking to the mic the 1687 code was the only code coming through. tells me that the pcm was talking has been talking to everything else ok. for instance the gages can drop out if there is a bus failure i think its more like they will drop out if there is a bus failure. all guage data seems to come from the pcm - no mic guages are wired directly to any sensors or transducers. if the cluster itself lost power or ground of the 17 pins spread between the 2 dashboard mic connectors ive metered 7 of them to ground. one comes from the battery directly its always hot and 2 others are hot when the ignition is turned on. the mic odo display comes on nice and strong and so do the indicator lights and the background illumination. so basically i think the mic is getting all the ground and power it needs. or if there is an internal cluster or pcm failure. if the pcms bus driver was faulty then the no bus message on the mic should go away when i unplug the 3 connectors on the pcm - no when i unplug the mic the ccd message on the overhead display should go away - no if anyone of the modules connecters or ccd bus wires ... from a physical point of view is this bus a single common wire that makes a simultaneous connection to all modules or is it daisy-chained into and out-of each module the mic mechanical instrument cluster is what creates the bus voltage. if all the modules spew data onto the bus then theoretically they all add voltage to the bus. and - whats this about bus voltage how can the state of bus functionality be measured by looking at the voltage of the bus if its digital data then id need a scope to assess the health of the bus - not a volt meter - no the ccd bus voltage should 2.5 volts you can use a dvom and check this at the data link connecter. again is the bus a single conductor ie wire using ground return - or is it an isolated twisted-pair is it wired as a common conductor between all modules or does it go into and out-of each module in daisy-chain manner ok do this first check to see if you have 2.5volts at pin 3 vt/br wire of the data link connector and pin 11 wt/bk at the data link connector the data link connector is the connector that the scan tool connects to under the dash by your knee ok ill check that - but heres what i dont get. if this ccd bus is so great that chrysler had to call it the chrysler collision detection bus then what is that doing at the odb scan port isint the odb port supposed to be manufacturer-independant and use some other whacky and overly-complicated way to deliver data to the outside world .
From : maxpower
maxpower wrote where the hell else is this bus going to !!! does anyone know which pins on the 2 cluster connectors is this bus is it 2 wires or one p1687 no communication with the mic mechanical instrument cluster and as i stated in my first reply you need to verify if this is a total bus failure or just simply a component issue. for the brief time that the pcm was talking to the mic the 1687 code was the only code coming through. tells me that the pcm was talking has been talking to everything else ok. ok you know more then me. i do this for a living at a chrysler dealer for instance the gages can drop out if there is a bus failure i think its more like they will drop out if there is a bus failure. all guage data seems to come from the pcm - no mic guages are wired directly to any sensors or transducers. if the cluster itself lost power or ground of the 17 pins spread between the 2 dashboard mic connectors ive metered 7 of them to ground. one comes from the battery directly its always hot and 2 others are hot when the ignition is turned on. the mic odo display comes on nice and strong and so do the indicator lights and the background illumination. so basically i think the mic is getting all the ground and power it needs. then as i said more to the next step or if there is an internal cluster or pcm failure. if the pcms bus driver was faulty then the no bus message on the mic should go away when i unplug the 3 connectors on the pcm - no you just dont get it do you when i unplug the mic the ccd message on the overhead display should go away - no if anyone of the modules connecters or ccd bus wires ... from a physical point of view is this bus a single common wire that makes a simultaneous connection to all modules or is it daisy-chained into and out-of each module hmm you still dont undersatnd!!! i told you there are 2 wires with 2.5v. those are the 2 bus wires. one is a plus and the other a minus the mic mechanical instrument cluster is what creates the bus voltage. if all the modules spew data onto the bus then theoretically they all add voltage to the bus. and - whats this about bus voltage how can the state of bus functionality be measured by looking at the voltage of the bus if its digital data then id need a scope to assess the health of the bus - not a volt meter - no and you still dont get it!!! and i dont have time to teach you this system. the ccd bus voltage should 2.5 volts you can use a dvom and check this at the data link connecter. again is the bus a single conductor ie wire using ground return - or is it an isolated twisted-pair yes that is what i said and yes they are twisted is it wired as a common conductor between all modules or does it go into and out-of each module in daisy-chain manner ok do this first check to see if you have 2.5volts at pin 3 vt/br wire of the data link connector and pin 11 wt/bk at the data link connector the data link connector is the connector that the scan tool connects to under the dash by your knee ok ill check that - but heres what i dont get. if this ccd bus is so great that chrysler had to call it the chrysler collision detection bus then what is that doing at the odb scan port isint the odb port supposed to be manufacturer-independant and use some other whacky and overly-complicated way to deliver data to the outside world take your truck to the dealer and have them fix it. good luck!! .
From : beekeep
on sat 05 aug 2006 152923 gmt mopar man mopar@man.com wrote i want to unplug the tcm and the airbag module from the wiring/control bus. 2001 ram 2wd short cab 318 5.2l with upgraded interior. there is a small plastic cover on the tranny hump under the dashboard held with 2 screws. i take that off and theres a big connector right there attached to something. is that the airbag controller if so then wheres the tranny controller the hvac cluster also has about 2 or 3 connectors which i unplugged. i unplugged 2 connectors on the brake unit i take it this is the abs controller. i unplugged the 3 cables going to the pcm. i unplugged the drl module. i still get no bus message and ccd message on the overhead console. where the hell else is this bus going to !!! does anyone know which pins on the 2 cluster connectors is this bus is it 2 wires or one does it go to the odb connector dont ya just hate it when you miss the bus beekeep .