Stupid fucking Elmers: Fuel Rule Change for Big S.U.V.'s Seen as Unlikely

From : enough already

Q: if sticking your head in the sand makes you feel better go for it but in reality you just dont know shit about this subject and you know it. actually wed prefer it if you stuck your head in the sand. much less noise and embarassment than when you stick it up your ass like this time the weightless helium and the lack of ability to understand percentages. as i said yer done but feel free to post again. -- max give a man a match and he is warm for a short while. light him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life. excellent point. one that would be found if the op disregarded tbones insistance that checking across the terminals is unnecessary. how would checking across the terminals determine a bad battery you mean you dont know nope and neither do you. checking across the terminals will not show you anything that the positive to ground would not show. wrong again maxi!!! 1 a static check after sitting a while would show a low voltage thus enhancing tbones idea of too much starter draw. the battery would have to be just about dead before the voltage would be low enough to see it and would have nothing to do with starter draw since the alt charges it back up right after the started hammers it. care to try again well i would but at this point im laughing too hard. see you just proved your bullshit starter draw then recharge theory to be just so much rubbish. no you just dont understand it. once the engine has run for a while the battery would have been recharged so how would a static check at its terminals afterwards show you anyhting the only one spewing rubbish is you but is is fun watching you spin yourself into such a deep hole. 2 a check while charging would confirm proper voltage to the battery. no shit and why i suggested keeping a volt meter hooked up while driving. im not sure why you need it while driving. its gonna charge while the car sits still just the same as it does going down the road. another bullshit idea. no just your stupidity and ignorance shining through. remeber that intermittent problem that we were talking about. the only way they can be found is to keep watching until it happens again. there could be a heat or vibration problem causing the vr to screw up and the only way to see it is by monitoring the vehicle under normal conditions as it does what it does. 3 a check after being charged and another an hour later would indicate battery condition. true but it wouldnt say what was hurting it. exactly thats why your silly 150-500 mills draw is bullshit too. once again you are just too ignorant for words. the more power you draw out of a battery the more that has to be replaced and replacing it causes current flow. significant power usage between recharges is known as deep cycling. since the charging system in a car is not designed with deep cycle recharging in mind and the average car battery is not designed for deep cycle use either you will get more current flow in the battery than it was designed for during recharge and that can cause excessive venting and spitting. maybe im just being silly but i do believe that is why they specifically make deep cycle batteries. 4 a load test wouldnt hurt. yea that would tell you the actual condition of the battery. yeah and so far after numerous posts by you about battery this and battery that and how full of crap we all are and how we should learn a thing or two about batteries and charging and a full four hours after the original post you the self proclaimed genius never fucking mentioned it. that is because he said that he swapped out the battery with another one and had exactly the same problem. the chances of both batteries having exactly the same problem are well slim and none. btw thats the first damned thing i would have done to the system. i figured id wait to see if you had any clue. but you never figured out that checking the condition of the pattery is the first thing you do to determine overall battery/charging system health. i even suggested to you that you should develop a troubleshooting method and carry it out to fix the damn thing. i practically shoved the proper method down your throat and all you could do was insult belittle and carry on like you know it all. lol what a complete load of shit. if he was using the same battery and didnt swap it out i would have suggested that he have the battery checked but since he did with exactly the same problem it seems unlikely that the battery is to blame. the fact that it would not start shows that an unexpected current draw may in fact be the problem as this second battery is also an older battery and may not have the reserve that the one he swapped out had. it also sounded like this second battery came out of another car and unless it was having these problems in the car it was in before this it is not the d

Replies:

From : nosey

ok guys heres whats current. step 1 1. old battery was a delco bought it 2002 2. second battery had a mopar label but suspect it was exide about three years of life. both batteries spewing liquid much corrosion on car. just replaced battery with brand new exide battery over rated for this vehicle more cca 525 car requires 430. what i found on the drive home. install of new battery before cranking engine voltage is 12.6 volts. after cranking engine with engine running 14.36 volts 2 minutes after starting battery voltage is 14.19 volts. with a fluke dvm connected to the battery for 27 km battery voltage varied between 14.09 at a stop light to 14.21 at 70km per hour no load beyond engine draw. at idle with full current draw rear window defog head lights and blower battery voltage was 13.86. idle voltage with no current draw beyond engine and driving lights was a battery voltage of 14.09 volts. time to recovery from a full load idle was about 1 min. air temp was about 25 degrees c. it should be noted that i was also monitoring the sense voltage on a second meter at the alternator voltage reg input and that voltage was about .5 volts lower but followed the battery voltage and never changed beyond always being about 5 volts less than the battery. for 27 km the monitored battery voltage never exceeded 14.35 volts. step 2 attached a third dvm to monitor the current output of the alternator 250 amp shunt installed in series with the output. with the day time running lights and always on side markers disabled removed fuses the current from the alternator was 15 amps seems high to me. moved the shunt to the battery current into the battery was 5 amps at start but was decreasing to 4.16 after about 15 minutes idle speed. battery voltage was now about 13.70 volts. manual says when the regulator operates above 60 degrees c that the reg voltage is 13.4 to 14.6. the alternator housing containing the regulator was to hot to hold your hand on. at no time during any of this testing did the battery voltage exceed 14.5 volts. and for the record the key out of the ignition current draw was 125 milliamps. so unless i can find some other problem my best guess for an answer is two bad batteries with the same fault. test instruments tell me that the system is operating normal the only variable was the battery. after about 50km of driving there is no sign of fluid leakage from the battery. at no time did any of the three batteries feel warm to the touch. the second battery mopar had a specific gravity reading in the white zone between green and red but this could have been because we had added water. the first battery was sealed and un testable. i hope i havent caused to much grief in this group and thank you tbone and all the others for your recommendations and suggestions. i now know more about batteries and charge systems than i ever wanted to know. now i just need to know how to stop all the battery acid corrosion. i have washed everything with baking soda and water but it still seems to be corroding. hahahahahahaha you really are funny. while current may be measured in amps voltage is the force that causes current flow and current is simply how much is flowing. the higher the system voltage is above the battery voltage state of charge the more current is going to flow into it so as i said both the 14.2 and the batteries state of charge has everything to do with it. once again you demonstrate your complete ignorance of even simple dc circuits. so now the state of charge is part of it well duh no kidding. but im still talking about the condition of the battery not just the state of charge. and its interesting that youve argued in the past that volts had nothing to do with current now you claim it has everything to do with it. does that merry go round yer on have a colliape hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha oh please stop you are killing me. can you really be this dumb first of all if you are talking about current you cannot measure that across the terminals of the battery lol. um yeah ya can. see load testers have this neat little resistance bank in them makes a bunch of heat but generally does a good job of checking current output of a battery. available at any good auto parts place. second unless you disconnect at least one of the terminals of the battery from the system to isolate it the system is still connected and will still influence your readings. right but i figured that was so elementary that if you actually knew what you were doing youd know to pull the negative terminal. third only an idiot would attempt to load test the battery with the engine running i never said to load test it with the engine running. indeed i never gave any specific instructions or conditions under which to test it. you are reaching pretty hard there. and again unless yo

From : Annonymous

94 ram3500 5.9/5 speed i have problems with the dash lights the only way i can get them off is unhook the battery cable please help asap it gets old unhooking 2 batterys -- posted using the http//www.autoforumz.com interface at authors request articles individually checked for conformance to usenet standards topic url http//www.autoforumz.com/dodge-94-ram3500-dash-lights-ftopict135237.html visit topic url to contact author reg. reqd. report abuse http//www.autoforumz.com/eform.phpp=656688 .

From : nosey

dave wants it hard and strong....any homos up for it shut up dave .

From : mac davis

okalreadyok@yahoo.com says... this is what happen to me i called the dealership and spoke to a sales person in regards to price comparison for a grand caravan. i told him that i had a price quote on a 2006 and 2005 dodge grand caravan sxt. i told him that i made a down payment and told him my final out the door price. he said he will speak to the general manager tony and then call me back. tony the gm calls me back and says to stop down with my quote/purchase receipe and he will beat the price i gave him. i said are you sure dont make me drive all the way there to waste my time and you dont have what im looking for. he said come on down ill beat it. a couple of hours later the sales person calls and asked me if i was coming down and i told him yes i will be there after work. he said their open until 10pm well i drive all the way there which is the springfield rt 22 w dealer arrived around 6pm and tony the gm and the sales person are both gone for the day. another sales person asked if i needed help and i explained what i just mentioned above. at one point it seem that 3 or 4 sales people were on it. none of the sales people there had any idea what i was talking aboutbecause tony did not inform anyone about this so they called tony c. or tony s. and he said to look on the lot to see if we have anything with a similar msrp. i said to myselfif you have anythingi thought you had it all covered. we looked at the entire lot for a similar dodge grand caravan and we found nothing similar. i was upset that he lied to get me all the way there just to get me in the door to waste my time and he himself or the original sales person wasnt there. tried to get me in the door to sell me something that im not looking for.be aware of the tatics that tony and his crew use at the rt 22 springfield dodge use. they do stuff like this and then wonder why you dont come back in 3-5- 7 years or whenever why would they want to piss you off like the place you are talking about or the gmc dealer ed schmidt in perrysburg ohio did to me they played games and put me way way out in the lot looking at a crapload of nearly identical trucks trying to find the one i really wanted that didnt sticker for 1500 more than just the one i wanted. they leave me out there alone causing me not to hear them call the shuttle my truck was being worked on for the 6th or 7th time after it was repaired after a bad wreck and then they made me wait 2 hours+ until it came back. if they had just taken my ass home i would have been ok with it but instead they just made me wait then seemed shocked when i later told them why i didnt want to buy the truck i was looking at that day. they should have had a clue by the survey score they got from that day. if they hadnt played games i would have bought it that morning! the only thing that was keeping me from doing it before they pissed me off was that they were way off base price wise. of course when they called me later the price was exactly what i had offered them in the first place. i did most of the negotiation on my 2003 ram by email and went in at 730 at night two days later and it was soon a done deal. they sent me the invoice and everything along with a copy of the sticker. if the printer hadnt kept screwing up the paperwork repeatedly it would have been a dream. so far 2+ years later charlies dodge in maumee oh has done nothing to annoy me at all. i will almost for sure be looking at a challenger in 2009 unless its as screwed up looking as the charger isthen its probably going to be the camaroif gm makes it and doesnt screw it up. i have two chevy dealers that have treated me decently in the past. one has no inventory the other is huge but never has had exactly what i want ever. ive only really been jacked around by 3 car dealers in my 32 years of driving and buying cars las vegas dodge in 77 a circus of lies screwups and attempted fraud. fletcher jones chevy in las vegas in 77 i had a deal all worked out on a 77 1/2 ton 4x4 and went to get the down payment and the price went up $2400 bucks. they were known for doing that stuff but why kill a done deal. they must not have thought i would walk. i did and in a hurry too. thats why i went to las vegas dodge ed schmidt described above.. bdk .

From : Annonymous

that is because you are trying to hide from being wrong as usual. i am using relative terms because i dont know the specific values and neither do you. uhoh.... yer wrong there. i can go outside and get a specific amp draw reading on any one of my vehicles. do you even have an ammeter that will do that i said no such thing and 14.2 volts has everything to do with how much current is flowing into the battery along with the batteries state of charge. um no. current is measured in amps not volts. so the voltage at which the system is operating doesnt tell a doggone thing about what the battery is taking in or putting out. thats why a check across the terminals is needed it eliminates the system and checks only the battery. thats also why you do a load test first because that draws a load on only the battery. the state of charge determins how much current will flow into the battery at a given voltage and if the battery is already weakened by an unintended prolonged current draw from something like an illuminated glove compartment light the added pull from the starter will make it worse wrong again. state of charge and age of the battery make a huge difference. your theory about a glove box light and a starter is hogwash. you should be looking at the battery condition and age. feel free to post again were betting on it. -- max give a man a match and he is warm for a short while. light him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life. wrong! if something is pulling a reasonable current from the battery constantly like 150 to 500 mills between that and the huge draw from the starter followed by a 14.2 voltage being applied to it it can send a reasonably high current into the battery for a fairly long period of time. perhaps you should learn a little something about batteries. maybe you should as well. reasonably high isnt a technical term anyone here recognizes as something specific. id say you are waffling and had. that is because you are trying to hide from being wrong as usual. i am using relative terms because i dont know the specific values and neither do you. a battery charging voltage of 14.2 has little or nothing to do with the actual current flowing in the battery as youve so eloquently stated time after time. i said no such thing and 14.2 volts has everything to do with how much current is flowing into the battery along with the batteries state of charge. thus im not sure why you bothered to use it as a reason for the battery getting a reasonably high current. the state of charge determins how much current will flow into the battery at a given voltage and if the battery is already weakened by an unintended prolonged current draw from something like an illuminated glove compartment light the added pull from the starter will make it worse the huge draw from the starter is likewise unmeasured. lol there is no need to specifically measure it as it is only compounding the problem in this possible cause of the problem. you have no idea what the particular starter is drawing and it seems like you dont know what an actual starter draws period. lol i dont see any numbers comming from you. most starters do not draw near what the battery is rated for on a constant draw. initial spike might exceed battery rating but in a well designed and maintained system this too is unlikely. gee max near ratings and might exceed ratings are not exactly technical terms anyone here recognizes as something specific either so as is said many times to you pkb! further unless the vehicle is particularly hard starting starter draw is for short period of time and will not induce battery boiling. lol no matter how low i think your knowlege is you jump in and prove me wrong by showing it to be much lower. even your claim that recharging after a long draw and then a short huge draw wtfit is suspect as the system design takes into account the battery in that system and is designed not to cook the battery. yea max under normal conditions you would be right but that constant draw is not a normal condition and unless the person is using a deep cycle battery the battery is not designed for that either. so once again youve discussed things that are irrelevant. just because you dont understand it does not make it irrevelant. if the voltage was below 12.6 id agree you might possibly have a load problem - but it would in my opinion have to be significantly lower - like 11 or so. what are you talking about here a battery voltage of 12.6 or a system voltage of 12.6 if you dont know then you shouldnt be part of this discussion. you should be the last person to say this when it is obvious that you dont have a clue about the function of the charging system with your voltage means nothing bs and yet here you are. btw he was talking battery voltage. are you so sure about that de