Rusting seat brackets/rods
From : gary
Q: it appears that we have both misread each others posts. i never suggested that he dump his vehicle and take a loss from doing so. no i know that. the op suggested that himself. dealer. i can see in your response that this is not the case but the entire company must take some blame here not just the dealer and if they are unwilling to correct the problem that they caused.... thats akin to saying youll never buy a john deere tractor again because the last time it was in the repair shop they scratched it up. dc has absolutely nothing to do with the problems he is having... that responsibility lies solely with the dealership service department. remember this wasnt a warranty repair - this was the dealership installing an aftermarket part at the customers request - no different than if a private shop did the same. the dealership is its own business. yes they sell dc products and represent dc for warranty purposes but the work they do for profit is their work and theirs alone. by all means never go back to that dealership for service again but to condemn the manufacturer and to go further and dump the vehicle at a financial loss makes absolutely no sense. .
Replies:
From : beekeep
do you understand tom what im getting at i absolutely do and you absolutely have a legitimate complaint. my only point here is your remedy lies with this dealership. you shouldnt expect nor will you get any assistance from dc corporate since your problem was caused by the installation of non-factory-approved parts. im not saying its right - im just saying thats how it is. i would like to know why dealerships sell these things because they can make a quick buck. and why dodge lets them. again - youre under the misconception that the dealership is run by dc. they are not. they are an independent business entity that is in a contractual relationship with dc to sell and service their products. any activities that they engage in or any products they sell not covered by that contract are their responsibility and theirs alone. .
From : transurgeon
kevin.vandehei@nojunksympatico.ca says... i assume you have the 3.0 mitsubishi in it. my parents have just under 300000 km on theirs. my wifes 96 with the same motor has about 285k. im not planning on changing either of them any time soon. kevin bad mistake kevin. have you ever seen the after effects of a broken belt on a 3.0 its ugly. i suggest that you change both of them in the very near future. -- bruce grant westminster md 95 2500 club 4x4w/dynatrac manual hubs cummins/auto 265/70rx19.5g .
From : tbone
i will try to find somebody with this sniffer type detector and tell them what you said. if they say that they found a leak for sure i would feel much better about them getting in there and changing out the evaporator. if they dont find a leak what other possible problems might cause a system to act this way .
From : stephen harding
really gary then why is that just one post from me generates two or more from you i think that we can all see who is really the well trained one lol! -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving yep and maybe someday you will too. btw you do know the fluid path in an ac unit dont you -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving it is both front and both back seats. well bone-head should be able to understand it then .
From : tbone
thanks for the advice on the windshield washers. they are working fine now. regards wayne .
From : transurgeon
yep and maybe someday you will too. btw you do know the fluid path in an ac unit dont you -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving it is both front and both back seats. well bone-head should be able to understand it then .
From : gary
it is both front and both back seats. well bone-head should be able to understand it then .
From : transurgeon
way it seems to turn and spring back. i wonder if anyone has any tips or tricks for removing the rear brake drums. any help will be greatly appreciated. push the adjuster lever away from the star wheel with a screwdriver push it towards the outside of the wheel. then lever the star wheel down - this will retract it. if the drum moves a little bit then gets hung up then yes youre getting stuck on the shoes. if it wont move at all it may be rusted around the hub. spray around the hub with some penetrating oil to help loosen it. .
From : denny
on sat 6 aug 2005 160642 -0400 a@b.com wrote i replaced the o2 sensors. there were actually only two one upstream and one downstream. downstream went on like a charm upstream stripped the threads off the old sensor and had to drive all over town to find an 18mm tap to clean out the cat converter hole! what a pain!!!!! finally got it tapped out and 5 hours after starting the second sensor is in. now i am afraid to drive it since it will depress me if i just spent 130 bucks for two un-needed sensors... -jerry i resemble that remark. i changed all the parts you did plugs wires etc before changing both sensors. still did not solve my problem. then bought a davis carchip and captured my data flow. i found that the fuel system in bank one is running open loop. oh well the carchip will continue to help in the future. oldtimer .
From : jay
a mechanic says he thinks i have a leak in my evaporator. when i attach a gague to the low pressure valve it reads over 100 psi way overfull is this guy a dope or is there something i am missing. .
From : tbone
i am changing the rear brake shoes on my sons 1998 dodge ram 2500 pickup which has 13 wheels. i spent an hour today trying to remove the brake drum with no luck. i know there is a slot on the rear for the star for the brake adjuster. however i turn it one way and strong get resistance and another way it seems to turn and spring back. i wonder if anyone has any tips or tricks for removing the rear brake drums. any help will be greatly appreciated. thanks bill .
From : mike simmons
so what tools are so expensive that are required to work on an a/c system i have been working on them for years and cant think of any tool that is that expensive. with a set of gauges and a book telling you what pressure at what temp you should be looking for i cant think of anything on an auto that is much easier to do than charge an a/c system. yes maybe a vacuum pump but if you are a little resourceful a used compressor out of an old refrigerator with a connector on it makes a great vacuum pump and basically free. tbone wrote the problem with ac is that you are dealing with high pressures and if you screw up things can go wrong that can hurt you as well as damage expensive components like the compressor. another problem is that many of the tools used for ac service and repair are pretty much useless for much else and are rather expensive. i myself look at the cost and usability of the tools and my time compared to the cost of having the repair done. if i have other uses for the tools or i know that i will need to use them again then i buy them and make the repair myself otherwise it makes more economic sense to just have the repair done for me. there are books on this stuff and if you really want to learn i would go there first. .
From : mike simmons
on fri 12 aug 2005 180035 gmt douglas douglas@groups.com wrote this will give you a rough idea http//www.trailerlife.com/towratings/trindex.cfm if the truck was a 99 or newer you could get the exact rating... i have an 01 dakota with 4.7l 2wd auto & 355 rear gears... max tow according to trailer life is 5150 pounds.. same truck with 410 gears would be 6450 imho its not the weight that it will pull that id wonder about but the weight and length of trailer that it can safely handle... we were going to change the gears in ours but decided not to and bought a ram.. logic behind this was talking to a lot of knowledgeable folks and deciding that gearing wouldnt change the weight suspension or length of the truck and our 28 foot travel trailer would be the tail wagging the dog.. ymmv trailer is 4800 dry probably close to 6000 loaded hello dodge trucks group what are the towing limits for truck and trailor or where would i look for the information my father-inlaws friend has lost his truck manual. i am getting the request second hand but said i would look it up on the internet for them. truck 1993 dodge dakota 5.2l v* efi fuel injection auto 4 speed c o.d. 2x4 rear axel ration = 3.55 318cc engine door plate of truck lbsaxelplate front2425 lbs2800 rear 2645 lbs2904 trailor sandpiper travel trailer 24 foot gvwr 2500 kg/5500 lbs approx hitch weight dry = 530 lbs approx total weight dry = 5500 lbs i reviewed this group and could not find an faq. web searching has not been successful to date. any help greatly appreciated douglas mac please remove splinters before emailing .
From : tbone
yea it sounds like your new truck went for a swim before you bought it. the actual seats were probably replaces due to water damage along with the carpet. you might want to lift the carpet and look for damage on the floor boards as well. weeeelllll.... that settles it then.... if t-bone sez it went for a swim then by god that must be what happened..... even though there is no other evidence to that fact there can be no other alternative since t-bone said its so! face it gary you are screwed! -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving roy wrote roy wrote if you look on the window sticker it will tell you the dealer it was shipped to. im doubting that any dc dealership would be selling water damaged cars. one never knows though but i would guess that its a semi-normal occurance. is anyone else experiencing problems with rusting seat brackets under the seats. i noticed the brackets under my front seats and the dealer replaced them under warranty. however my back seat brackets are also rusting . i guess im wondering if this sold as new truck might have been partially submerged. i cant imagine rust forming on metals that are in a dry cab and protected from the elements by not only the cab itself but also the seats. gary the metal parts used in the seat frames etc. are bare and not painted or treated against corrosion. rust appearing on the surface of these parts is not uncommon and will happen due to humidity etc. cmon you mean that your heated girly girly seats are going to rust vbg seriously though i aint buying it. but then again you see them all the time i dont. i never had rust on my seat brackets on any dc trucks. keep in mind that the carpet gets wet with snow in the winter so the bracket nearest the door should show signs but they dont. this guy is talking about his seat back as well. im the op. this truck is in south texas havent had snow lately...at least 18 years or so. heh. gary to satisfy my heated seat buddy is it humid in south texas also what year and where did you buy it roy gary bought it in sept 2003. in san antonio market. it is not as humid as houston by any means. normally about 40%-60% humidity. if they are not painted they ought to be. i ruined a perfectly good dress shirt by trying to reach something under the seat. nice rust stain on the sleeve. thats how i came to see it. btw i am only talking about the supports under the seat in front and back seats. not the metal in the seat backs. gary gary .
From : nosey
anyone plow with a dakota am thinking of buying one to plow a small condo complex with short narrow drives and streets. any thoughts fred never plowed with a dakota but...............a couple of thoughts come to mind. short narrow drives and streets are a pia. no place for the snow to roll off the blade you have to have some weight and grunt to push the snow and stack it. also if you have to back drag a light plow on a dakota probably wont do it. commercial plowing is best done with a properly optioned 3/4 ton or bigger truck. i wouldnt want to be out in one of those 2-3 inch per hour storms with a dakota. but thats me you on the other hand...... roy and...... any plow truck without heated leather seats is useless imho....... ;^ mike .
From : tbone
where are you roy i saw a cj-5 in fresh paint the other day while on the road. it was outside amsterdam ny. was sitting on a trailer for sale for 1500.00 im in southeastern ma. if you are able shoot me the phone number for it. it wont hurt to talk to the owner. roy .
From : gary
where are you roy i saw a cj-5 in fresh paint the other day while on the road. it was outside amsterdam ny. was sitting on a trailer for sale for 1500.00 -- steve w. as for plowing i ran a plow outfit on a cj for a few years. nice and nimble and easy to handle. i dont bother with plows any more. picked up a nice tractor with a cab and blower on it. makes it much easier to clear out lots and sidewalks. i have been thinking about building a nice blower rig using a gator type vehicle with a hydraulic drive blower running off an engine in the rear bed area. figured on using a 4 wheel water cooled unit then i could tap the cooling system for a heater. i agree a bigger truck will be better but the turning radius is the problem. with the short drives narrow streets and split rail fences turning and backing becomes a real problem. i have a 2001 ford f250 and a 2005 2500 ram both seem to be too long when you hang a plow on the front. fred if it is that tight without snow you arent going to get it done with a dakota either. everything will shrink by a few feet once you get some snow banks along the sides. dont know where you live but a couple of back to back storms and no melting and youll be renting a bobcat to get in there. that might be the thing find out how much somebody wants per hour for a bobcat or front end loader and price the job accordingly. condos can be a pia they may not want you pileing snow on the lawns. if you can pile the snow watch for melt and refreeze on walks and driveways. one slip and fall and it is sue city have a bunch of insurance. one last thought. a old cj5 if you can find a good one. ive looked for one for a couple of years and yet to find a decent one maybe your luck will be better. roy on sat 13 aug 2005 092703 gmt denny wddodge@woh.rr.com wrote anyone plow with a dakota am thinking of buying one to plow a small condo complex with short narrow drives and streets. any thoughts fred i dont but a good friend of mine uses a 93-94 dakota with a 6.5 western. it does fine on driveways and little spots where you have a couple of swipes and go. anything over about 6 and it takes him a while. he does one parking lot for a bowling alley and takes him a couple of hours to do it. i drove by and looked at it one time and had to chuckle it shouldnt have taken over about 45 minutes for the lot. overall hes happy with it. btw i second what roy said a bigger truck will handle it better. denny ----== posted via feeds.com - unlimited-uncensored-secure usenet ==---- http//www.feeds.com the #1 group service in the world! 120000+ groups ----= east and west-coast server farms - total privacy via encryption =---- .
From : dale yonz
ok you know that this is not true how my simple minded little friend i have a dealer warranty and policy guidebook in my office which is as thick as a nyc phone book. in it it covers virtually every scenario a d/c dealer might encounter. i have over time read this book from cover to cover. in this tome it specifically states that d/c is not liable for any aftermarket accessories sold by the dealership. further the dealer agreement that every dealer must sign specifically exempts d/c from any liability due to an error by the dealership. legal minds have worked these things out over many years! how is it then that your knowledge is superior to those who actually do this for a living just because you wish something is so doesnt make it so. now why dont you go buy that ferd youve been talking about and go annoy the snot of of that ng with your superior knowledge of the industry.... hmmmmmm mike mike are you referring to me to go and buy that ford and go and annoy some other group dale .
From : pj
that is not how i read it. thats because you dont read... friday went out and drove a 2005 ford f250 crewcab. very nice riding truck. might have to go monday and price it out. dodge has really disappointed me after 5 dodge trucks maybe time to switch. now - tell me how that doesnt sound like hes going to trade his truck in on an 05 sd. it most certainly is different. a private shop has no connection with the manufacturer at all and is not authorized by dc to do anything to the vehicle very different than a dealership. so you think dc authorized the installation of some aftermarket fender trim and if they didnt authorize it then the dealership was acting independently werent they just like a dealer that installs a performance chip on a truck and there are dealers that do that. try getting dc to pay for engine damage with an aftermarket performance box on it if you didnt go back to the installing dealer. the dealership is its own business. yep and part of their business is representing the manufacturer. yeah - part of their business is. but not everything they do is backed by the manufacturer. hell ive seen gm/ford trucks in my dodge dealers service department. obviously theyre not representing dc when working on those vehicles - so why should this situation be different i do not agree i dont really care if you agree or not tom... im telling you the way it is and mike who does this for a living is telling you the same thing... the fact that you choose to ignore it and substitute your view of reality is well... you. damn! couldnt have said it better myself. just because he doesnt agree that makes it reality.... jeesh... i dunno why i waste my time... mike not when it comes to them making modifications on the vehicles that they are authorized by the manufacturer to perform service and warranty work on. if dc didnt authorize them to install those trim pieces and im 99.99% sure they did not then how can you hold dc responsible dealerships are independent from the manufacturer. yes they but product from the manufacturer sell that product and perform factory-authorized service on said product. dc specifically disclaims responsibility for any damage caused by the installation of non-authorized parts read your warranty manual and this is exactly the situation here. the dealership did the install so they are responsible for the results - not dc. of it before it becomes a worthless rusted hulk. as for condemning the manufacturer they should be with the way they appeared to have handled the situation. im not saying i support the way they handled it either... im just not naive enough to expect anything different. they authorized this dealership service department to work on these vehicles not to install non-factory parts they didnt.... thats the part youre ignoring here. .
From : roy
roy wrote roy wrote if you look on the window sticker it will tell you the dealer it was shipped to. im doubting that any dc dealership would be selling water damaged cars. one never knows though but i would guess that its a semi-normal occurance. is anyone else experiencing problems with rusting seat brackets under the seats. i noticed the brackets under my front seats and the dealer replaced them under warranty. however my back seat brackets are also rusting . i guess im wondering if this sold as new truck might have been partially submerged. i cant imagine rust forming on metals that are in a dry cab and protected from the elements by not only the cab itself but also the seats. gary the metal parts used in the seat frames etc. are bare and not painted or treated against corrosion. rust appearing on the surface of these parts is not uncommon and will happen due to humidity etc. cmon you mean that your heated girly girly seats are going to rust vbg seriously though i aint buying it. but then again you see them all the time i dont. i never had rust on my seat brackets on any dc trucks. keep in mind that the carpet gets wet with snow in the winter so the bracket nearest the door should show signs but they dont. this guy is talking about his seat back as well. im the op. this truck is in south texas havent had snow lately...at least 18 years or so. heh. gary to satisfy my heated seat buddy is it humid in south texas also what year and where did you buy it roy gary bought it in sept 2003. in san antonio market. it is not as humid as houston by any means. normally about 40%-60% humidity. if they are not painted they ought to be. i ruined a perfectly good dress shirt by trying to reach something under the seat. nice rust stain on the sleeve. thats how i came to see it. btw i am only talking about the supports under the seat in front and back seats. not the metal in the seat backs. gary gary .
From : gary
thanks for the replies guys and thanks for the link. fred on fri 12 aug 2005 235810 -0500 langerhans langerhans@example.net wrote fred wrote hey guys coming home tonight and the malfunction indicator light comes on did the code check and came up with po753 po304 po138 would someone be kind enough to fill me in on the code meaning. has been running a little rough all week thinking its the plugs and then the warning light. thanks fellas. fred http//www.allpar.com/fix/computer-codes.html .
From : roy
roy wrote if you look on the window sticker it will tell you the dealer it was shipped to. im doubting that any dc dealership would be selling water damaged cars. one never knows though but i would guess that its a semi-normal occurance. is anyone else experiencing problems with rusting seat brackets under the seats. i noticed the brackets under my front seats and the dealer replaced them under warranty. however my back seat brackets are also rusting . i guess im wondering if this sold as new truck might have been partially submerged. i cant imagine rust forming on metals that are in a dry cab and protected from the elements by not only the cab itself but also the seats. gary the metal parts used in the seat frames etc. are bare and not painted or treated against corrosion. rust appearing on the surface of these parts is not uncommon and will happen due to humidity etc. cmon you mean that your heated girly girly seats are going to rust vbg seriously though i aint buying it. but then again you see them all the time i dont. i never had rust on my seat brackets on any dc trucks. keep in mind that the carpet gets wet with snow in the winter so the bracket nearest the door should show signs but they dont. this guy is talking about his seat back as well. im the op. this truck is in south texas havent had snow lately...at least 18 years or so. heh. gary to satisfy my heated seat buddy is it humid in south texas also what year and where did you buy it roy gary .
From : steve lusardi
it appears that we have both misread each others posts. i never suggested that he dump his vehicle and take a loss from doing so. no i know that. the op suggested that himself. that is not how i read it. what i thought he was saying is that with the way dodge handled the situation his next new truck may be a ford not that he was going to dump his current dodge for a ford tomorrow but i could be wrong. dealer. i can see in your response that this is not the case but the entire company must take some blame here not just the dealer and if they are unwilling to correct the problem that they caused.... thats akin to saying youll never buy a john deere tractor again because the last time it was in the repair shop they scratched it up. lol that has no valid comparrison to it at all. that is an excellent comparison! really how how does the improper installation of a part by someone that represents the manufacturer compare with a mechanic accidently scratching the vehicle dc has absolutely nothing to do with the problems he is having... that responsibility lies solely with the dealership service department. which is a paid representitive of dc. dc does not pay the dealership a dime! any profits the dealership earns are the result of sales by the dealer. really then i guess that your dealership does its warranty work for free and if not then you are a p a i d representative.. remember this wasnt a warranty repair - this was the dealership installing an aftermarket part at the customers request - no different than if a private shop did the same. it most certainly is different. a private shop has no connection with the manufacturer at all and is not authorized by dc to do anything to the vehicle very different than a dealership. no different than the dealership! of course you would say that mike you work for one but it is still not true. by installing an aftermarket accessory dc is take out of the loop and thus has no culpablity for the problem. sorry if you cant/wont understand this. you are correct in that they have no legal obligation but they still have an obligation to their customers that the dealerships that carry their name will stand behind the work they do and if not then dc is no better than their worst dealership and anyone that buys from them in that case is a fool. the dealership is its own business. yep and part of their business is representing the manufacturer. when the dealership chose to sell/install an aftermarket part the dealership no longer represents dc. lol as long as the dealership carries the manufacturers name on the sign outside and does the work on one of the manufacturers vehicles for whatever reason it always represents the manufacturer which in this case is dc. the manufacturer is responsible for making sure that they are represented correctly and by people willing to stand behind their work warranty or not. the dealership does have an obligation to stand behind the work that they do thats undeniable but dc has no obligation whatsoever in this issue. dc does have an obligation to its customers if it intends on keeping them. the days of complete blind brand loyalty has for the most part come to and end. while it may still seem to exist in a limited way in here in reality many will and are doing what dale is considering iow screw me once shame on you screw me twice shame on me. yes they sell dc products and represent dc for warranty purposes but the work they do for profit is their work and theirs alone. i do not agree not when it comes to them making modifications on the vehicles that they are authorized by the manufacturer to perform service and warranty work on. you may not agree but facts is facts! you are correct here mike and the facts is that if the manufacturer is unwilling to help a customer resolve a problem with one of its representatives then it no longer deserves that customers business. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .
From : roy
it appears that we have both misread each others posts. i never suggested that he dump his vehicle and take a loss from doing so. no i know that. the op suggested that himself. that is not how i read it. what i thought he was saying is that with the way dodge handled the situation his next new truck may be a ford not that he was going to dump his current dodge for a ford tomorrow but i could be wrong. dealer. i can see in your response that this is not the case but the entire company must take some blame here not just the dealer and if they are unwilling to correct the problem that they caused.... thats akin to saying youll never buy a john deere tractor again because the last time it was in the repair shop they scratched it up. lol that has no valid comparrison to it at all. dc has absolutely nothing to do with the problems he is having... that responsibility lies solely with the dealership service department. which is a paid representitive of dc. remember this wasnt a warranty repair - this was the dealership installing an aftermarket part at the customers request - no different than if a private shop did the same. it most certainly is different. a private shop has no connection with the manufacturer at all and is not authorized by dc to do anything to the vehicle very different than a dealership. the dealership is its own business. yep and part of their business is representing the manufacturer. the manufacturer is responsible for making sure that they are represented correctly and by people willing to stand behind their work warranty or not. yes they sell dc products and represent dc for warranty purposes but the work they do for profit is their work and theirs alone. i do not agree not when it comes to them making modifications on the vehicles that they are authorized by the manufacturer to perform service and warranty work on. by all means never go back to that dealership for service again but to condemn the manufacturer and to go further and dump the vehicle at a financial loss makes absolutely no sense. i agree with not dumping the vehicle at a loss unless he intends to get rid of it before it becomes a worthless rusted hulk. as for condemning the manufacturer they should be with the way they appeared to have handled the situation. they authorized this dealership service department to work on these vehicles and should put pressure on them to correct errors that they caused not just blow off the customer like they seemed to have done. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .
From : steve w
stacker wrote hi all! is this the right place to ask for help trying to keep my 1985 w- 150 on the road lots of questions including how the roof panels and drip rail are welded together before they start to disintegrate. is taking the old outer roof panel off a safe job for an amateur the best rust inhibiters to use before priming painting and undercoating the bad spots under the box floor and behind the sides good sources for generic body parts when available etc. i cant afford a bodyshop so i need to do my own work when possible. this is a great old pickup but is in need of some serious tlc. mechanically it runs great but has a delayed thud and shudder when accelerating from a complete stop at a sign or light. its been doing it for quite some time 3 years but nothing obvious has surfaced. thanks and .....help!!!!!! andy i have an 87 for sale if youre within a couple hours of springfield ma come take a look. erik veng for sheet metal. check your gear lash in the differential possibly might want to do bearings. you dont even want to try separating the outer roof from the inner when you dont have a body shop or a welder and its also welded around the window openings. get those wrong and itll leak more than it ever did. replacing the cab is so much easier. disassemble the nose after unplugging and disconnecting things and unbolt the cab from the frame. youll want to gut the cab and take the doors off of course. this also makes it -much- easier to work on and fix the one you have and get at other things like the u-joints for the transfer case stuff like that. check your frame while youre at it and oil the bastard with old motor oil or thinned out grease..kero and 90 weight gear oil sprayed up along the frame and into the bed ought to do a lot for where you cant reach with undercoat.. oh good undercoat 3m professional grade rubberized undercoat.. this stuff is the shit to use.. bought fenders from a dodge dealer and wherever i sprayed its never rusted inner side of the fenders obviously. outer side has surface rust from the dirt and other crud beating up on the paint. i bought the fenders back in 91 and except for wrinkling one i have the other still with no inside rust. my other truck is something of a bastard child.. it started life as a 74 d100 and now has the bed of a78 cab from an 8012/1979 a/c from an 87 ramcharger trans from a 67 coronet heads and intake from a 69 273.. rebuilt it twice so far. i should name it franken-truck. .
From : mike simmons
i agree a bigger truck will be better but the turning radius is the problem. with the short drives narrow streets and split rail fences turning and backing becomes a real problem. i have a 2001 ford f250 and a 2005 2500 ram both seem to be too long when you hang a plow on the front. fred on sat 13 aug 2005 092703 gmt denny wddodge@woh.rr.com wrote anyone plow with a dakota am thinking of buying one to plow a small condo complex with short narrow drives and streets. any thoughts fred i dont but a good friend of mine uses a 93-94 dakota with a 6.5 western. it does fine on driveways and little spots where you have a couple of swipes and go. anything over about 6 and it takes him a while. he does one parking lot for a bowling alley and takes him a couple of hours to do it. i drove by and looked at it one time and had to chuckle it shouldnt have taken over about 45 minutes for the lot. overall hes happy with it. btw i second what roy said a bigger truck will handle it better. denny .