Response to those in need
From : brent d
Q: of tests. it seems that ken test all kinds of things for free and even alvin is mentioned in many of these as well about all kinds of filters as well as the ionic breeze. i dont recall that particular device being uised to filter the air for the duramax but i could be wrong. so youre disbelieving his test results because he tests a lot of things fuzzy logic indeed... .
Replies:
From : electrician
but you wouldnt say that you would say 3 cents is 50% more than 2 cents no i would. .
From : max dodge
on thu 28 apr 2005 201830 -0500 ramman@dodgecity.cc wrote lawrence tnloaswpraemnmcien5g@earthlink.net writes i have a 97 dodge ram 1500. i rebuilt the engine last summer and i am loosing oil. how much over what period of time mine too and it hasnt been rebuilt. only 77k miles on it 97 1500 loses 1- to 2 quarts in 30004000 miles between oil changes. no drips on the floor no smoke on startup no smoke on acceleration not showing up in the cooling system thank god just magically disappearing. its obviously burning it but slow enough not to be visible in the exhaust. tailpipe residue what little there is of it it is a light grey. this is also not something new for this truck its used oil almost since the truck was new. i thought valve guides possibly but if that were the case itd blow a blue cloud at morning startup. and morning starts are clear. compression check didnt lend any clues either. plugs are clean. ive had some frustrating history of p0307 misfires for about a year but the wire rerouting tsb seems to have addressed that for the time being anyway. knock on wood. i had a 3.0 dodge that used 1 liter every 1500km - and it never showed even a whisp of smoke from the exhaust. the valve guides were so loose i was surprised it was not using a whole lot more. it did kill the cat. i guess i shouldnt bitch. its been a good reliable truck and so far has never stranded me. chews up front tires if you dont rotate every-other oil change and piss-poor fuel economy but not many full-size gas powered v8 trucks do much better. sure as hell glad i didnt buy a chevy or a ford. .
From : webmaster carolinabreezehvac com
you have an internet handle of boss man and wonder if i have an inferiority complex hmmm rethink your stupidity. you mean.....omg....pot kettle black here.. i dont need to find a woman. nah...your boyfriend is making sure you dont. perhaps you do with a handle like boss man and an e-mail of dicksucker. creeeeaaaative... ive been happily married for over thirteen years to a great woman. no need for my hand. im sure yours is wore out by now. its getting better.....i swear.....those that talk the most about it get the least and if you have been married for 13 years now we know you are lyin... this ng has become a group of warranty kings and queens looking for free advice or those not wanting to pay for work performed. any doubt of this can be cleared by reading posts. then go away. in the home repair group i have given away thousands of dollars in free advice and i have for you bucko its not hurting my bottom dollar one bit. so what if a person wants free advice i bet you would take your webtv access for free if it was offered or anything else that comes down the line.. face it man...you get paid to work you get paid for warranty work and you took the job. you bitch and whine but you forget you go to work and they come to you. so what if its warranty....you get paid no matter what. this is why i select those in true need and e-mail them my response in the hope that it helps. what have you done for them oh....boy....your advice in here is like asking kervorkian for help in curing the common cold. you sure you are a tech you got your training in this year do they offer a class now on how to be a dick cause it looks like you are at the top of your class. brent .
From : electrician
tbone wrote tbone wrote damn close to the paper filter only 1% less effective wrong einstein nope. paper filter at 2% k&n at 3%. 3 - 2 still equals 1 the last time i checked it out. 3-2 = 1 like i said. 3 % - 2 % = 1 % exactly!!! which means that the k&n is 1% less effective than the oem like i repeatedly said. learn to handle percentages before you make an even larger ass of yourself if thats possible lol sorry gary but it is you that needs to learn how to accurately use percentages rather that the distorted fuzzy math way you currently do. it passes 50% more dirt than an oem 0.03 / 0.02 = 1.50 so what it still only passes 1% more dirt in total volume than the oem any way that you try to spin it. who mentioned total volume the numbers you are basing your distorted calculations on are based on total volume. what you are comming up with is meaningless bs. i was talking about relative filtering ability i understand that but when you are talking about high effeciency the number that you come up with is a distorted value that really means nothing. but thats probably beyond your comprehension no i have a full comprehension on how you are trying to distort the actual capabilities of the k&n with your fuzzy math. perhaps you need to comprehend the definition of fuzzy math although i believe that you are fully aware of its meaning. and still within factory spec.. btw now you are saying 50% more when befor it was 150% more. make up your mind or at least get your english correct. you know when i have to re-phrase it so even you can understand it then its time for you to admit youre in over your head it is not a matter of re-phrasing it it is more of a matter of stating it correctly. there really is a big difference between 50% more and 150% more like a 100% difference. it really seems like with so many other times the one over his head happens to be you. btw where exactly is that clockspring it depends on the vehicle therefore a k&n passes 150 % as much as or 50 % more dirt than an oem while true it is still meaningless unless you know exactly how much the oem passes thru and once you realize that an oem lets just about nothing thru 150% of just about nothing is still just about nothing. jesus f christ taking the lords name in vain is a sin you know. must i repeat yet again the numbers that this is based upon the numbers that it is based upon are already percentages that at least have some valid nmeaning. what you are calculating has no real value. reduced to semantic flames are you perhaps ypu should look up the definition of semantics before you fire up your accusations. this is not a matter of semantics becuaes what you said is simply wrong. face up to it for a change. tell me what is incorrect about 3 % / 2 % = 150 % go ahead fermat have at it that is not what is incorrect. what was incorrect was that you said the k&n allowed 150% more dirt into the engine which is completely incorrect. while this was fun for a while now it is getting tiresome so feel free to believe what you will. while the k&n is slightly less efficient at capturing dirt than an oem filter it does have less restriction to airflow and provided that both filters are within factory specs it is up to the owner of the vehicle to determine which property is more desirable. t bone think of it in simpler terms disregard the percentages lets say for argument sake that a k&n filter lets in 3 pieces of dirt lets say the regular air filter lets in 2 the difference between the amount each lets in is 1.5 pieces of dirt 2 x 1.5 = 3 1.5 pieces of dirt = 50% of the total dirt allowed by the k&n more than the paper filter so the k&n filter does not allow 1% more dirt but 50% more...does this make sense now you are arguing apples and oranges. it lets in 50% more than the other filter and 1% more in total volume. i really dont give a damn what it lets in compared to the other filter unless the other filter is compatible with it in all other properties.and i know what the other filter is letting in my only real concern is what it passes in total volume and if that amount is within the engines filter specifications. kewl gotcha. .
From : brent d
steve i maintain quite well with fellow techs. i did not achieve shopforman and service manager positions then give it up voluntarily because i couldnt maintain. i gave it up because i beat the crap out of warranty time and take home more than my service managers. my complaints are with the teary eyed customers that never opened their warranty manuals. to j drum try driving with the putter some time. its fun and 180 yards is nothing for someone with a good swing. my short game sucks however and the putter is better used off the tee. i can easily be on the green on two for a 540 yard par 5 yet 10 putt for a crowd displeaser. brent .
From : mot
tbone wrote oh come on miles we all know that youre the one in here with the big bucks. i all seriousness though what you are saying sounds more like a justification for not wanting to make any sacrifices or changes in your lifestyle. what i should spend $20000 on a new hybrid so i can save a few $100 a year and feel good about sacrificing good grief. on one hand you whine and complain about us being dependant on foreign oil but on the other hand you are unwilling to do anything about it. make up your mind dude. while ou may see them you still only look to one side for answers. the side that doesnt require you to make any changes. nope. i look to solving both short and long term issues. you only look at the long term and ignore whats going on today. lol completely untrue. i am well aware of what is going on today and we had this conversation over a year ago. at that time i was criticizing the american car companies for having their heads up their asses as usual as they were building bigger and bigger vehicles and investing nothing in hybrids or fuel efficient vehicles. you otoh said they were doing the right thing since there was no need or market for them and that the ones building hybrids
From : webmaster carolinabreezehvac com
tbone wrote but even still unless one filter is letting in a damaging amount of dirt does it really matter if one lets in a little more ive seen first hand how much dirt k&ns let through. and yes properly maintained. here in az we have very very fine dust. k&ns are horrible for filtering it. they let through alot more than just a little. ive seen it too many times. then in your area a k&n would be a bad choice. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .
From : jeff mayner
i doubt ill see the innards of the thing. i still dont know what the balance shaft is for and how it affects the crappy running condition. ive not seen anything like this on the honda volvo or vw 4-cyl engines ive worked on. steve@carolinabreezehvac.com webmaster@carolinabreezehvac.com wrote in thanks. then it appears weve found why it was running rough. i was baffled because the main belt is ok as were the plugs cap rotor etc. i thought i would still have to diagnose that after the new pulley arrives. ill treat it as good . and im assuming no damage running it off a few teeth just rough running. more good . yup...thats all it takes. if you get a chance to look at the crank you know why its needed. .
From : moparman
customers want or else they would not be on the ng. thereby being in group four would place you in the freebie group. so everyone who participates in this group who isnt a dealership employee is just some freeloader looking for freebie professional advice from the likes of you your pomposity reaches new heights each day. .
From : moparman
tbone wrote because i dont care about the dirt that didnt get through. i look at the dirt that did. you cant really have one without the other. what hurts an engine dirt that got through or dirt that didnt forget about this 3 vs 2 thing for just a minute tbone. lets take a car with an oem filter through some dusty driving conditions. lets also take a car through the same area at the same time with a k&n filter. now lets do an oil test on both. the car with the k&n will have 50% more. the 3 vs. 2 thing you are hung up on means nothing. .
From : tbone
tbone wrote now i see that it is your logic that is failing you. both of them show the total amount of dirt that enters the engine or rather the percentage of volume that gets by. the difference is that the 3% is baselined on the total volume of dirt what you claim that you want to know while the 150% is baselined on the efficiency of the other filter which really means nothing.. no i dont want to know the total volume of dirt. i want to know how much is in my engine over a set amount of time. i dont have an easy for to measure how much dirt i drive through. but i can run tests on oil and find out how much dirt is in my engine. thats what i compare thats my baseline. it is very common to compare two items by using one of them as a baseline for comparison. you are hung up on this 3 vs. 2 thing. im not. my concern is amount of oil in my engine so thats what ill use as my baseline and it is certainly the truth. .
From : moparman
i respond to those in the ng that have legitimate conerns to their e-mails. this prevents half of you shade-tree yahoos from arguing proven repairs and causing a potential accident. to those that feel i am a troll why are you reading this post. either 1; you feel i will give you some free info how cheap of you; 2 you are one of the idiotic customers i have described that has not opened their warranty manual; 3 or you just cant wait to flame a dealership employee which makes you a troll in it self. brent keep up the good work brent ill appreciate your help when i need it. some people know about bees and some people know about trucks...you should stick with what ya know and that would be what... masturbation im too old to care about that anymore. unless there making a ten minute viagra pill ill assume your talking about yourself or someone else. actually. i was talking about brent. cool. -- moparman---remove clothes to reply! --scud coordinates 32.61204 north 96.92993 west-- .
From : the guy
3% is 1% more than 2%. prove it on your own calculator. 0.02 + 0.01 = 0.03 3 is 50% more than 2 but 3% is only 1% more than 2%. see the difference a percent is an expression of per 100. saying that 3% is 50% more than 2% is just as wrong as saying that three cents is fifty cents more than two cents. you have 2 cents and i have 3 cents. i certainly do have 50% more than you. youre trying to compare the two based on total pennies neither one of us has. i dont care about pennies or dust that i dont have or isnt in my engine. my entire point in this discussion is the usage of the % symbol. i dont have a k&n and have no interest in defending the products reputation. i dont really care about the pennies either. 3 is 50% more than 2. ive never claimed otherwise. 3% is 1% more than 2%. 3% is not 50% more than 2%. 52% is 50% more than 2%. notice where the % symbol is and is not used. that is the only point i am arguing. .
From : tbone
tbone wrote sorry miles but you got either your math or logic all wrong here. the one percent is in relation to the total volume not what the oem blocks. if the oem blocked passed 1000 grams at 2% then it faced a total of 50000 grams in your given period of time. if the k&n was 1% less efficient iow 3% it would pass 1500 grams during the same period of time. like i said over and over and over and over.... there is nothing wrong with garys math as far as math goes it is just fuzzy in the fact that it make the k&n seem much worse than it really is like in holy crap 50% worse. i do have one but i doubt that i will buy another. i guess that depends on what vehicle i get next and how efficient the stock air filtration system is. 1500 vs 1000 is significant. the fuzzy math is trying to base it on a total amount. the only thing i care about is how much got into my engine. not how much didnt. comparing two cars the one with a k&n will have 50% more dirt in it than the other. i dont care how much they were exposed to. .
From : tom lawrence
i respond to those in the ng that have legitimate conerns to their e-mails. this prevents half of you shade-tree yahoos from arguing proven repairs and causing a potential accident. to those that feel i am a troll why are you reading this post. either 1; you feel i will give you some free info how cheap of you; 2 you are one of the idiotic customers i have described that has not opened their warranty manual; 3 or you just cant wait to flame a dealership employee which makes you a troll in it self. brent keep up the good work brent ill appreciate your help when i need it. some people know about bees and some people know about trucks...you should stick with what ya know and that would be what... masturbation -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .
From : roy
have you checked and or replaced the fuel pump i own a 1994 dodge van with the 318 automatic trans. when i bout it this summer it ran great come winter though it just started to quit just like somebody turned the key off but it would usually start right back up and go just fine for a while then would quit again. replaced just about everything my hanes chiltons manual and a few friends reccomended but still to no avail. have lived with it that way for a while but now it is starting not to start at all after it quits. any help or advice would be greatly appreciated thank you stephen .
From : beekeep
i respond to those in the ng that have legitimate conerns to their e-mails. this prevents half of you shade-tree yahoos from arguing proven repairs and causing a potential accident. to those that feel i am a troll why are you reading this post. either 1; you feel i will give you some free info how cheap of you; 2 you are one of the idiotic customers i have described that has not opened their warranty manual; 3 or you just cant wait to flame a dealership employee which makes you a troll in it self. brent damn! i thought you were playing with yourself in your truck. it would seem that is where your expertise. ya really should stay with what ya know. roy .
From : brent d
damn close to the paper filter only 1% less effective and still within factory spec.. depends on which spec. youre talking about. for my engine the manufacturer specs. a filter with 99.5% first-pass efficiency. theres only a couple of aftermarket filters that can meet that spec. and k&n isnt one of them. and neither are most paper ones at that unrealistic level. sigh..... i guess i will have to throw my .02 in here as well. first of all the math isnt fuzzy its correct although you may not like the outcome the numbers are correct. sorry mike but while the math may be correct and i never said otherwise it is still fuzzy for no other reason than it make one filter to be much worse than the other and that is not always true.. secondly i have seen nowhere in print where the k&n filter meets manufacturers specs.... period. in fact d/c cummins and gm all caution against using a k&n type filter because of poor filtration. really please point me to some links. most of the compalints i see are in regard to them not being oiled properly over oiled and the oil messing up sensors. it seems that d/c cummins and the general both think that the 1% is meaningful enough to caution their owners against their use. funny then how dc ford and chevy dealerships have sold them as performance upgrades. finally the 99.5% spec tom alluded to is very much real world. paper filters are that efficient! some are but most are not as seen in the link that you provided. for everyones interest and edification please follow the below url for more info. interestingly you will see that the k&n efficiency vs a stock ac delco paper filter is much more that the 1% t-bone alludes to. also look at the loading factor. sorry mike but i have to stop you there. the one percent that you accuse me of alluding to was from gary or did you forget the basis of the calculation that started all of this crap. 3% / 2% = 150% and the more accurate 3% - 2% = 1%. http//home.usadatanet.net/jbplock/iso5011/spicer.htm i think that you may want to do a little research on this data before you present it as absolute fact. i did a little search on dogpile with the search being ken at testand and got multiple pages of results on all kinds of tests. it seems that ken test all kinds of things for free and even alvin is mentioned in many of these as well about all kinds of filters as well as the ionic breeze. i dont recall that particular device being uised to filter the air for the duramax but i could be wrong. although the test was primarily a direct comparison of the ac delco vs the k&n the comparison is valid for virtually all oem filters. perhaps you could answer a simple question based on these results. if all of the filters have the same surface area how could a media trapping filter the k&n flow less air while allowing more dirt to pass and still plug up faster while containing less dirt than a surface blocking paper one the ac delco. how come ken never gives his last name. now yall can argue all you want about fuzzy math 150%... 50%... etc. but i know math and the math gary used aint fuzzy. i also know that if you spend your money on a k&n filter you are wasting it.... but hey.... its your money and your engine...... think about it! as theguy said you are arguing apples and oranges. while the k&n may be 50% less efficient than the oem it still only lets in 1% more dirt than the oem by volume and that is the number that really counts. as for peoples choice as to buy it or not that is up to them. i have one and it has caused my engine no harm in 100000 miles but i doubt that i will buy another one. sigh... whats the use mike -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .
From : tom lawrence
come on folks. boycotting one supplier when there is a limited supply only hurts yourself. we need to decrease the quantity demanded. in other words just plain buy less gas from everyone! thats right you are endorsing these high gas prices when you buy these gas guzzling suvs and giant trucks that never hauls anything more then your fat butt. you are trying to play the supply and demand game with the people that set the supply. it wont work. refinery production will be balanced with whatever demand the consumer sets. prices are not high because mother earth ran out of oil. i know oil is a limited natural resource but when are we going to run out i dont think any time in the immediate future. if we reduce the demand the refineries who you want to boycott will reduce production to balance the demand then raise prices to make up for lost sales volume. if you think they will keep refining just to store the products and create a supply overstock you are kidding yourself. lol where do you guys come up with this crap. the market is what it is and if demand goes down so will the price. even now the price of gas is falling fast in many areas because the oil companies see people rapidly moving toward better mileage cars. if they tried to raise prices in response to lower demand it would drive even more people to even smaller better mileage vehicles and reduce demand even further and then the government would have to get involved since that would be price gouging and the last thing the oil companies want is price regulations. btw do you happen to work for the oil company no i dont work for any of the oil companies. are you saying that last week there was a mad rush of people buying fuel efficient cars resulting in the gas prices going down i think not. lol not hardly. what they look at is what the consumer is buying over time and those reports are not released every day. despite what you might think they are restricted by the same sales forces that effect everyone else and they can only sell it for what the market will bare. the price of gas at the pumps is set by the cost of foreign crude oil. lol now you are really dreaming but if this were true how could they raise the price when we use less. less demand translates into lower crude prices you do seem interested in this subject so ill pass this along to you. explore it analyze it any way you want then come to your own conclusions. http//tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .