Removing transmission and bearing to air gap

From : marsh monster

Q: iron frame to hold the transmission. it was no problem at all. al you want to remove a cast iron powerglide laying on your back - not. i was a skinny 16 year old and the tranny weighed more than i did. . 222 307338 6315-43617821-293@storefull-3353.bay.webtv.net .. .. inline =3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d =3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d re removing transmission....fact not fiction from nospamsal1@qwest.net big=a0al .. inline =3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d =3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d =a0=a0nospamsal1@qwest.net big al edited =a0=a0i dont see any way for the slave to back off the throw out arm. al =3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d =3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d marshmonster replied snip the slave does not back off the throw out arm. it stays in contact with it. release arm snip a spring placed behind the apply piston inside the slave keeps the piston forward pushing forward the apply rod against the release arm moving the release bearing forward on the bearing retainer which rides in contact with the pressure plate......at all times unless the systems fubared. marshmonster =3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d =3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d thank you for trying to understand this crap design. so the engineers think its ok to have the throw out bearing spin continously. thats why they dont last as long as they used to. in the interest of lower cost the engineers have again screw us with a poor design. if the hydraulic system had a spring like budd said there would be no way to control free play. it would just return the slave all the way in. al =3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d =3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d yer welcome its my job to understand it. lets not get started on engineers.... dey got big egos and are lurkn about ready to defend their idiotic reasonings at all times. eventhough i have found many errors in budds advice....i dont recall him posting the spring thing on a hydraulic set up in this thread. but im gonna re-read the thread to find out if he did....and if he did.......well see if we cant keep the thread lively....lol. marshmonster .

Replies:

From : budd cochran

go back to the third grade and stay awake this time. or did you even get that far -- budd cochran warning!!! poster still believes that intelligence logic common sense courtesy and religious beliefs are still important in our society and might include them in his posts. .. .. inline ========== ========== when air is left in the system......... there is no way in hell it will ever warm up and expand causing the fingers to ride the bearing......especially being as the bearing is already riding on fingers. a question........... if the air could....expand due to heat and apply the bearing..... then why isnt the fluid expanding and applying the bearing air compresss brake fluid does not marsh ========== ========== mr-d150@spam.citlink.net budd cochran replied air expands when heated most fluids do not . . or have you forgotten how a hot air balloon works generally taught by the time you get to the third grade. -- budd cochran ============= ============= budd you have not ceased to amaze me at your ability to prove yourself wrong without even suspecting youre doing it. quoting you air expands when heated most fluids do not lmao 1 i did not say air would not expand when heated. i did say it compresss i also did say that brake fluid would not compress. please take note...there will be a quiz 2 i see you stated in open forum that... and i do quote most fluids do not expand. could you...... maybe..... possibly.... hopefully... pull out of yer arse..... jest one fluid that does expand when heated maybe one that applies to this thread..... go ahead...jest one.. i dare you.... no damnitt.....not engine coolant!!! rotflmao @ budd 3 as previously stated i am aware that hot air expands.....jest look what youve done to this thread with all yers...and i am aware of its effects on balloons though i am not sure i learned it in third grade. 4 i feel sure that you havent mastered the concept of hydraulic brake and clutch systems yet......something that is learned in the 1st or 2nd year of apprenticeship as an auto tech...... rotflmao @ the small eng. tech / heav. trk tech. marshmonster eats nibbles on a cotterpin and chases it down with some gear oil .

From : budd cochran

thats not possible. the clutch will not apply under any scenario resulting from an improperly bled system. try reading what budd said. he mentioned nothing about the clutch. simply said that an improperly bled system could result in faster than normal throwout bearing wear. that is not only possible its probable. i am not sure that this is exactly what budd either said or meant but if you actually believe this max prove it because in reality you are dead wrong. there is no way in hell that an improperly bled system could cause excessive wear to the bearing but it is highly probable to cause excessive wear to the clutch. i dont claim to be a hydraulics expert but there are some simple facts that seem to be completely distorted. no tom it depends on the volume of air left in the system. on hydraulic machinery in the muffler factory ive seen a 3 dia by 24 cylinder full of hot air bend a 3 exhaust pipe with a laminated wall 0.072 thick . . . .the heat coming from an oil based fire below the cylinder. i think that you are comparing two different systems. the cylinder that you are talking about was in a closed system which gave the building pressure no where to go so it pushed the piston out with enough force to bend the pipe. in a hydraulic clutch when the pedal is fully released it is effectively an open system and any expansion of either gas or fluid will simply dump the excess into the reservoir without building any pressure by design. on the pines bender in the example the pistons have orifices to allow the wing die to follow the bending action. pressure from the pump is applied to both sides of the piston with the extend line having up 30% higher flow to maintain contact with the pipe. in this example the cylinder had been just rebuilt and was being installed. the millwright left the job for lunch and someone tossed a cigarette butt in the oily mess on the floor below the cylinder. the cylinder was connected but no oil had flowed yet in a systems test. i was the apprentice millwright on the job that day. when we heard the fire alarm we went to help put it out and thats when i saw the bent pipe. the opposing wing die had not moved even though it is in parallel in the hydraulic circuit. yeah the set-up man lost his position because of poor housekeeping. and if the fire was as unintentional as you make it sound he should have. he had been told repeatedly to clean up the mess of oil absorbent petro-sorb and dirt that he had tossed under the cylinder to catch the drips from the worn shaft seals. another employee walked by and tossed a butt in the mess. then dont forget that all the power your engines make comes from coffee can sized volumes of air heated by burning fuel. while true you are dealing with both combustion and a closed system neither of which exist in a hydraulic clutch at rest. it can. first of all gas liquid and solids all expand to some degree when heated with the difference being that liquids and solids apply extreme pressure when any expansion occurs and gasses do not unless the expansion is significant. the reason why there is a slight gap required in a mechanical clutch linkage is due to the possible expansion of the mechanical parts partially engaging the clutch and causing excessive wear and slippage to the clutch not the bearing. the return spring serves to stop the linkage from rattling when in full release due to the required gap as much as anything else. and thats why there needs to be a gap on the hydraulic system if the hydraulic clutch master cylinder is functioning properly no gap will be needed as any change due to expansion or contraction should be dealt with by pushing excess fluid or pulling required fluid from the reservoir in the open at rest system. not in all systems. as for gravity the weight of the fluid is so insignificant in a 3/16 line that i doubt that it could supply enough force to even move the clutch slave cylinder at all never mind move it with enough force to cause excessive wear on the bearing. air in the system will also not cause the slave cylinder to move because if it expands all it will do is push the fluid back into the master cylinder reservoir as at full release the ports between the master cylinder and the reservoir are open pretty much just like the brake master cylinder. it does however have the ability to cause excessive clutch wear because it could prevent the clutch slave cylinder from moving enough to fully disengage the clutch when required due to its compressibility. as for the bearing wear i would think that it goes through as much wear sitting at a single traffic light while holding the clutch in as it does with a year of wear with the light to non-existent pressure being placed on it during normal driving when the clutch is fully engaged. it sounds like the op simply has

From : big al

well i havent had any luck. i tried resetting the brake control module and checked all the fuses. i havent took the gauges cover off to look for any shorted wires yet but that is next. i still believe this is some kind of systematic problem and not related to any one bad sending unit. when the problem first started the speedometer would work fine if the brake + anti-lock light was not on. when brake + antilock light was on the speedometer would start jumping around. like i said in my original post this all started with air in my brake lines. im wondering if the brake control module might be bad and somehow causing all these other problems. anybody have any additional thoughts on this weird behaviour chuckster wrote you have to go into the dianostic mode for the abs. the light will brake light will flash and then you look up the problem with a repair manual speedo can be acting up from a dirty sending unit on the trans. or most likely a worn or shorting wire. like big al suggested reset the abs computer by unplugging. .

From : big al

.. .. inline =3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d =3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d here max hold still....while i set yer shirt tail on fire...... snip budd was wrong on so many levels..... and now your endorsing him. snip you on the other hand...are only partially wrong. the effects of gravity have nothing to do with the bearing apply. snip its the effect of that spring jammed in behind that slave cylinder apply piston that hold it all togeather. snip =3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d =3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d max340@verizon.net max=a0dodge aimed his propane torch at marsh and fired back set your own clothes on fire.... budd was correct air in the line has an adverse effect on bearing release. air in itself can act as a spring as it compresses nicely and decompresses just as well. expansion and contraction due to heat is debatable in that the effects could vary from none to more than enough to cause the bearing to wear more quickly than normal depending on a circus full of variables. budd was correct there should be a fraction of an inch of freeplay in a mechanical system. in a hydraulic system not so likely. that means im entirely correct since you agree completely with that statement. considering springs in slave cyls. assuming there is one thats true. but there is not always a spring behind the slave cylinder piston. secondly the sole purpose of that spring is to be sure that the piston is fully extended to the clutch fingers at rest so only a single stroke of the clutch pedal is needed to release the clutch. its effects on wearing the throwout bearing are almost as negligible as that of gravity on the throwout bearing. as such if you are saying it has any negative effect on the throwout bearing you are incorrect. -- max give a man a match and he is warm for a short while. light him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life. =3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d =3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d max you idiot........ you can add words delete words or even rearrange the words in this thread....but the facts are the facts perhaps you should go back to the start of the thread and read what youre commenting on..... because........ #1 master budd...did not use the words adverse effect!!! what he did say was that hot air could apply the damn bearing.....which is impossible. and....its evident that you dont know that... and also that you when yer reading...yer readn whut you want to...not whats written. #2 i never stated air did not could not or even would not.....act as a spring....i would even go far as to say that if it had been me... i would have preffered the phrase..... has a cushioning effect.....but thats jest me. i dont liketo compare unlikes...air is not a spring after all........as much as you may want it to be. #3 as far as your little rant on expansion and contraction.......theres nothing debatable about the fact that hot air will never apply a release bearing in the vehical that is under consideration in this thread..........unless yer willing to debate with idiots that think it can. #4 budd did not state...... there should be a fraction of an inch freeplay in a mechanical system.............. read the statement he made as many times as you want ......but it still comes down to this........what you are reading is not being shown in this thread and you are defending statements that were not made and that i did not argue against. though i am more than willing to argue with you over the statements that are posted that i find to be incorrect. budd posted that by design there should be a fraction of an inch .......you took the word mechanical and placed it in that statement. again...read the thread. i thunk youll see the conversation had turned to one concerning hydraulic systems budd used the term mechanical in a following paragraph. #5 i did not say that the spring in the slave cylinder had a negative effect on the release bearing. i did not even infer that it did. i did not even consider that it would. i did not even imagine that some idiot would read my post and somehow find a secret code that my words appear to say that. #6 i know what im talking about.... you dont...... thats clear to me..... but you dont believe me..... thats okay by me..... but do yerself a favor......retreat now...while im still being kind and only calling you an idiot instead of proving that yer one. #7 stop top posting.....its quite the bofah marshmonster grrrrrrrrrr .

From : big al

suddenly without warning denny exclaimed 28-oct-05 134 am suddenly without warning roy exclaimed 27-oct-05 606 pm suddenly without warning denny exclaimed 25-oct-05 1046 pm mike never mind the pile on factor. what concerns me is what he offered when he hopped into this thread. something about hugs with the op. maybe being pink has sort of how do i say this perhaps changed his focus im sorta at a loss for a explanation of his current behavior. maybe some bad carrots affected him. bfg roy not to worry roy... least not about that!.... the op is a she.....course we could always start rumors..... he..he..he... ^ mike now i see thru this big cloud of dust from yet another pile-on.........you alls jealous that sweet-lovable me might get a cyber hug and you all arent.. start all the rumors you want itll still be good for us.......i hope.. vbg denny id like to say the op has been sitting back quite enjoying this little exchange one of these days im going to have to do some googling to find out the origin of the whole bunny thing though i dont know if google goes back that far..... ^.... the bunny thing goes waaaay back..... you see when denny was a little kid......... back when he was just a little bunny. in fact it was so long age he was eating strained carrots. now that i think about given his size he is probably eating them strained now. g roy well not so far back. may 10 2002 to be exact. something about ammonia needles and roys fantasies about denny. oh and semi-fast vettes. - we are all immortal on usenet 8-o jmc damn..... youre good. remind me never to piss ya off..... vbg now if you can find the oversized tires and skid plates youll know who the real heavyweight is... denny well lots of oversize tires... but i did find some references that you have some on your atv 10 feb 2004. no the oversize tires were on my atv. the rabbit hasnt found one that will haul his furry ass around. maybe if it had a heated seat.... sooooo... we are going there again are we ;^ mike i cant believe that im admitting to this but all turned out good in the end but i pulled an 05 t&c in this am was magnesium green with grey leather all the b/s that you dont really need in a van. condensed version is the wife didnt like the stow and go seats i didnt get it so im not going to be a member of the sss. whew!!!!!!! denny .

From : budd cochran

uh nate ive driven that kind of tracks with my old valiant. just stay on the higher drier parts. learning to drive on the ridges was mandatory for driving the eastern co prairie back roads. -- budd cochran so where you go you need a winch to get in and out but you can haul a 24 foot trailer in and out something is not making sense here. two-rut roads with muddy stretches. -- nathan w. collier http//inlinediesel.com http//7slotgrille.com http//utilityoffroad.com http//bighornrefrigeration.com .

From : budd cochran

so where you go you need a winch to get in and out but you can haul a 24 foot trailer in and out something is not making sense here. two-rut roads with muddy stretches. -- nathan w. collier http//inlinediesel.com http//7slotgrille.com http//utilityoffroad.com http//bighornrefrigeration.com .