Rear end ratios 3.21 vs 3.92

From : electrician

Q: im considering a new dakota and was wondering whether to go with a 3.92 or the standard 3.21 rear end. most of my driving is city and i occasionally pull around 5-6k pounds but not frequently. will the 3.92 have a gas mileage impact around town i know it will on the highway but how bad will it be .

Replies:

From : advocate

im considering a new dakota and was wondering whether to go with a 3.92 or the standard 3.21 rear end. most of my driving is city and i occasionally pull around 5-6k pounds but not frequently. will the 3.92 have a gas mileage impact around town i know it will on the highway but how bad will it be 6k is a helluva load for a dakota. if you really need that kind of towing capacity id suggest you go to a full size ram with the hemi. .

From : ol duffer

im considering a new dakota and was wondering whether to go with a 3.92 or the standard 3.21 rear end. most of my driving is city and i occasionally pull around 5-6k pounds but not frequently. will the 3.92 have a gas mileage impact around town i know it will on the highway but how bad will it be you dont say which engine but i wouldnt recommend anything under 3.92 with any engine less than 5 litres and i wouldnt recommend the 3.21 for towing even with the hemi. .

From : ol duffer

fboettcher@comcast.net says... if you want a point of reference you can go to the trailerlife.com home site and look up the 2000 see if it matches your user manual. seems backwards though most of the towing capacities derate the manual transmission. in the case of the dakota i think that is because the largest engine is available only with automatic transmission. in most of the larger trucks an nv4500 or getrag manual is available that will take pretty much whatever you throw at it. .

From : electrician

fboettcher@comcast.net says... on wed 19 jul 2006 130704 gmt electrician@xo.com electrician wrote go here http//www.trailerlife.com/towratings/2006/towingratingsp2033.pdf i dont think you will find any dakota that is rated to 6k with a 3.211 ratio regardless of engine transmission or cab style for which you have not stated your intentions. thanks for the site reference. im planning on a quad-cab v8 and 5 speed automatic so according to that id be limited to 5k with the 3.21 and could go up to 7k with the 3.92. .

From : electrician

6k is a helluva load for a dakota. if you really need that kind of towing capacity id suggest you go to a full size ram with the hemi. the ram is too big to fit in my garage id have just a couple of inches to spare. i have a 97 club cab dakota that fits quite nicely so id like to stay with a dakota. ive used my current dakota to haul loads in the 5k range many times but never distances over 75 miles or so. it is a 5.2l 5 speed automatic with the 3.21 rear and doesnt seem to have any great difficulty with 5k other than getting about 10 miles to the gallon. so im thinking a new quad cab 4.7l dakota will fit the bill quite nicely. .

From : electrician

says... yes and quite honestly a dakota will have a bit of a hard time with a 6k trailer and a 3.91 at times and be a lost cause with a 3.12. take factory tow rating with a grain of salt here. figure on about 60 to maybe 70% or the rating in the real world. i guess i always thought the manufacturer rating would be quite a bit lower than what you could actually comfortably tow. but thanks for the advice. .

From : chris thompson

if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tom i know this means nothing coming from me but congratulations on your promotion. your spot in the group has been taken by the snoidiot. vbg denny lol .

From : frank boettcher

on wed 19 jul 2006 130704 gmt electrician@xo.com electrician wrote im considering a new dakota and was wondering whether to go with a 3.92 or the standard 3.21 rear end. most of my driving is city and i occasionally pull around 5-6k pounds but not frequently. will the 3.92 have a gas mileage impact around town i know it will on the highway but how bad will it be go here http//www.trailerlife.com/towratings/2006/towingratingsp2033.pdf i dont think you will find any dakota that is rated to 6k with a 3.211 ratio regardless of engine transmission or cab style for which you have not stated your intentions. frank .

From : geekboy

on wed 19 jul 2006 130704 gmt electrician@xo.com electrician wrote im considering a new dakota and was wondering whether to go with a 3.92 or the standard 3.21 rear end. most of my driving is city and i occasionally pull around 5-6k pounds but not frequently. will the 3.92 have a gas mileage impact around town i know it will on the highway but how bad will it be go here http//www.trailerlife.com/towratings/2006/towingratingsp2033.pdf i dont think you will find any dakota that is rated to 6k with a 3.211 ratio regardless of engine transmission or cab style for which you have not stated your intentions. frank i wonder if that list is wrong. the user manual for my 2000 ram 2500 ctd lists upper towing limits list about 15k for automatic and 19k for manual. this list shows the 2006 line for only about 13k for both. if that is correct i think i will try to keep my 2000 truck lomg as possible. gb -- posted via a free usenet account from http//www.tera.com .

From : bob

electrician wrote im considering a new dakota and was wondering whether to go with a 3.92 or the standard 3.21 rear end. most of my driving is city and i occasionally pull around 5-6k pounds but not frequently. will the 3.92 have a gas mileage impact around town i know it will on the highway but how bad will it be go with the 3.92. it will have almost no mileage impact around town. the transmission will upshift to the next to keep the rpms in right range. you might notice some decrease on the highway though. but its not enough to matter a whole lot. youll really need that 3.92 gear when you tow. -- ..bob arrived 2006 fxdi red. 1997 hd fxdwg - turbocharged stolen 11/26/05 in denver 1hd1gel10vy3200010 co license j5822z 2001 dodge dakota qc 5.9/4x4/3.92 1966 mustang coupe - daily driver 1965 ffr cobra - 427w efi damn fast. .

From : snoman

on wed 19 jul 2006 100618 -0500 frank boettcher fboettcher@comcast.net wrote on wed 19 jul 2006 130704 gmt electrician@xo.com electrician wrote im considering a new dakota and was wondering whether to go with a 3.92 or the standard 3.21 rear end. most of my driving is city and i occasionally pull around 5-6k pounds but not frequently. will the 3.92 have a gas mileage impact around town i know it will on the highway but how bad will it be go here http//www.trailerlife.com/towratings/2006/towingratingsp2033.pdf i dont think you will find any dakota that is rated to 6k with a 3.211 ratio regardless of engine transmission or cab style for which you have not stated your intentions. frank yes and quite honestly a dakota will have a bit of a hard time with a 6k trailer and a 3.91 at times and be a lost cause with a 3.12. take factory tow rating with a grain of salt here. figure on about 60 to maybe 70% or the rating in the real world. ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .

From : dave lee

fboettcher@comcast.net says... on wed 19 jul 2006 130704 gmt electrician@xo.com electrician wrote go here http//www.trailerlife.com/towratings/2006/towingratingsp2033.pdf i dont think you will find any dakota that is rated to 6k with a 3.211 ratio regardless of engine transmission or cab style for which you have not stated your intentions. thanks for the site reference. im planning on a quad-cab v8 and 5 speed automatic so according to that id be limited to 5k with the 3.21 and could go up to 7k with the 3.92. i have both a dakota and an f150. i also have a 6k travel trailer. i would not attempt to pull it with the dakota. as a matter of fact i wanted to move my trailer about 20 yards to my front yard. my f150 was in the shop. i hooked up the tt to the dakota and i thought i broke the springs it went so far down. good luck. .

From : mac davis

on wed 19 jul 2006 103208 -0500 geekboy spam@spam.net wrote i wonder if that list is wrong. the user manual for my 2000 ram 2500 ctd lists upper towing limits list about 15k for automatic and 19k for manual. this list shows the 2006 line for only about 13k for both. if that is correct i think i will try to keep my 2000 truck lomg as possible. gb the list is right on.... you have a 3/4 ton ram dude... lol my 01 dakota with 4.7/auto/355 and 2wd is rated as max row 5100# change to a 410 rear end and its max goes up to 6405# but that just means that it will get that much weight moving from a standstill.. it doesnt mean that it can stop it or that the wheelbase is going to get longer or the suspension beefier to conrol it.. ymwv mac https//home.comcast.net/mac.davis https//home.comcast.net/mac.davis/woodstuff.htm .

From : mac davis

on wed 19 jul 2006 223930 gmt electrician@xo.com electrician wrote fboettcher@comcast.net says... on wed 19 jul 2006 130704 gmt electrician@xo.com electrician wrote go here http//www.trailerlife.com/towratings/2006/towingratingsp2033.pdf i dont think you will find any dakota that is rated to 6k with a 3.211 ratio regardless of engine transmission or cab style for which you have not stated your intentions. thanks for the site reference. im planning on a quad-cab v8 and 5 speed automatic so according to that id be limited to 5k with the 3.21 and could go up to 7k with the 3.92. thats scarey... my 99 ram with 5.9 gas auto and 355 gears is only rated at 7200# we haul a 29 travel trailer that weighs a little over 6k loaded and theres no way id want to try that weight with a dakota... talk about the tail wagging the dog... *g* mac https//home.comcast.net/mac.davis https//home.comcast.net/mac.davis/woodstuff.htm .

From : frank boettcher

on thu 20 jul 2006 120239 -0700 mac davis mac.davis@splinters.comcast.net wrote on wed 19 jul 2006 223930 gmt electrician@xo.com electrician wrote fboettcher@comcast.net says... on wed 19 jul 2006 130704 gmt electrician@xo.com electrician wrote go here http//www.trailerlife.com/towratings/2006/towingratingsp2033.pdf i dont think you will find any dakota that is rated to 6k with a 3.211 ratio regardless of engine transmission or cab style for which you have not stated your intentions. thanks for the site reference. im planning on a quad-cab v8 and 5 speed automatic so according to that id be limited to 5k with the 3.21 and could go up to 7k with the 3.92. thats scarey... my 99 ram with 5.9 gas auto and 355 gears is only rated at 7200# we haul a 29 travel trailer that weighs a little over 6k loaded and theres no way id want to try that weight with a dakota... talk about the tail wagging the dog... *g* mac https//home.comcast.net/mac.davis https//home.comcast.net/mac.davis/woodstuff.htm mac do you use a weight distribution hitch sway bars if so your opinion on how much they actually help in controlling the load. frank .

From : snoman

on wed 19 jul 2006 225557 gmt electrician@xo.com electrician wrote i guess i always thought the manufacturer rating would be quite a bit lower than what you could actually comfortably tow. but thanks for the advice. you have it backwards it is a lot higher than you can comfortably tow with those vehicles. the only ones accurately rated and with some reserve are the diesels and big block powered p/us like old dodge v10s old ford 460s and gm 454s and 8.1s and ford v10s somewhat too. ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .

From : snoman

on wed 19 jul 2006 225231 gmt electrician@xo.com electrician wrote it is a 5.2l 5 speed automatic with the 3.21 rear and doesnt seem to have any great difficulty with 5k other than getting about 10 miles to the gallon. so im thinking a new quad cab 4.7l dakota will fit the bill quite nicely. if you had a 3.91 behind current truck you would have a different view and a dakota qc with a 4.7 and a 3.21 with a 5 k trailer would be a slug and not make a good towing experiance and likely get even worse mpg that you get now. deeper gears improve towing mpg ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .

From : frank boettcher

on wed 19 jul 2006 103208 -0500 geekboy spam@spam.net wrote on wed 19 jul 2006 130704 gmt electrician@xo.com electrician wrote im considering a new dakota and was wondering whether to go with a 3.92 or the standard 3.21 rear end. most of my driving is city and i occasionally pull around 5-6k pounds but not frequently. will the 3.92 have a gas mileage impact around town i know it will on the highway but how bad will it be go here http//www.trailerlife.com/towratings/2006/towingratingsp2033.pdf i dont think you will find any dakota that is rated to 6k with a 3.211 ratio regardless of engine transmission or cab style for which you have not stated your intentions. frank i wonder if that list is wrong. the user manual for my 2000 ram 2500 ctd lists upper towing limits list about 15k for automatic and 19k for manual. this list shows the 2006 line for only about 13k for both. if that is correct i think i will try to keep my 2000 truck lomg as possible. gb if you want a point of reference you can go to the trailerlife.com home site and look up the 2000 see if it matches your user manual. seems backwards though most of the towing capacities derate the manual transmission. you also should consider the gross combined vehicle weight rating which is the weight of the vehicle load and tow. usually less than the tow ratings when you deduct the other stuff. my dakota is rated at 4800 for towing but if i look at it from the gcvwr standpoint drops to about 3900. frank .

From : miles

tbone wrote the fact that it is becoming known that the 1500 series ram tends to have rear axle problems at around 60000 miles pretty much shows it to be a problem with the rear rather than a maintenance issue. my 2001 ram has 80000 on it. i use it quite a bit for towing and no problems. i have changed the diff oil twice since new. .

From : tbone

on sat 22 jul 2006 195949 gmt tbone tbonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote lol you are kidding right have you ever done this because from what im reading above i doubt it. please tell me labor wise what exactly is the difference between swapping gears and a rebuild. ill give you a hint the carrier bearings and if you are working on the dc 9 1/4 rear you would be an idiot not to replace both the carrier and the pinion bearings anyway and save yourself the grief of having to replace them at around 60000 when they tend to fail. otherwise the labor and steps required are exactly the same and when you replace the pinion just like in a rebuild the time required jumps up because now you have to set the pinion depth all over again which can be time consuming when done correctly. if you know someone willing to do it for $300 and who actually knows what they are doing post the number and address as that really is a bargain. most 9.1/4 failure are due to neglect because people think that you do not even need to check or change rear axle lube and if you do this you may have problem. i agree that most people never think to check or change the axle lube and because of that they should be built to be able to deal with it. in over 20 vehicles that i have owned i have never changed the oil in a single one of them and never had a rear axle start making noise at all never mind at 54000 miles with the exception of my 97 ram and this truck was babied for the first 70000 and for the most part still is. the fact that it is becoming known that the 1500 series ram tends to have rear axle problems at around 60000 miles pretty much shows it to be a problem with the rear rather than a maintenance issue. i messed around with a up 67 charger with a very warm 383 in it and a 4 speed 30 years ago and it had the early 9 1/4 rear axle in it and it took a terible beating without failure. the 9 1/4 is not weak rear end but it is prone to trouble if you never change the fluid in it which most do not do. any assembly is only as strong as its weakest part and in this rear now that appears to be the bearings. you can change the best design into crap if you use substandard parts in critical areas and while i would say that the bearings in the dc 9 1/4 rear are not junk they are not exactly the best available either. change the fluid after a few k miles when new and then even 15 to 20 k after that if you play hard and it will hold up fine but most seem to think that it never needs changing. i this were required then the rear should be designed to make this easier such as a drain plug placed in the bottom of the casing. in a severe duty application i would go along with this but contrary to popular belief in this ng most people do not fall into that category of usage and my truck absolutely did not fall into that category. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

on sat 22 jul 2006 162155 gmt tbone tbonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote that would require a rebuild of both axles and at around $800 a piece depending on area it would cost far more than it would be worth. not sure where you are getting this you do not need to rebuild the axle becuase moct of the time the bearings in it ar fine unless the are subject to neglect. so they can be reused. you can get gears for both axles together for about 300 total on internet and you should be able to get them installed for a total of 400 to 600 bucks because they are not hard axles to work on. the last thing you want to do is get parts from a dealer or have work done there too as you will get scalped. use a yukon or precision gear for axles if you do it and stay away from richmond because they are about a b grade replacement at best. lol you are kidding right have you ever done this because from what im reading above i doubt it. pl

From : clare at snyder on ca

on thu 20 jul 2006 144005 -0500 frank boettcher fboettcher@comcast.net wrote on thu 20 jul 2006 120239 -0700 mac davis mac.davis@splinters.comcast.net wrote on wed 19 jul 2006 223930 gmt electrician@xo.com electrician wrote fboettcher@comcast.net says... on wed 19 jul 2006 130704 gmt electrician@xo.com electrician wrote go here http//www.trailerlife.com/towratings/2006/towingratingsp2033.pdf i dont think you will find any dakota that is rated to 6k with a 3.211 ratio regardless of engine transmission or cab style for which you have not stated your intentions. thanks for the site reference. im planning on a quad-cab v8 and 5 speed automatic so according to that id be limited to 5k with the 3.21 and could go up to 7k with the 3.92. thats scarey... my 99 ram with 5.9 gas auto and 355 gears is only rated at 7200# we haul a 29 travel trailer that weighs a little over 6k loaded and theres no way id want to try that weight with a dakota... talk about the tail wagging the dog... *g* mac https//home.comcast.net/mac.davis https//home.comcast.net/mac.davis/woodstuff.htm mac do you use a weight distribution hitch sway bars if so your opinion on how much they actually help in controlling the load. frank a sway bar works miracles. i know that from experience. a equalizer hitch also makes a huge difference particularly on a heavy trailer and a light tow vehicle. when i towed the 17 foot bonair with the aerostar if i had 150-200 lbs on the hitch it towned nicely - very little sway - particularly with trailer tires rather than car tires. when i put a bike rack on the back it was all over the road with 150 tongue weight - not much better at 200. the sway bar tamed it right down even at 150 - and at 150 tye hitch hight was still very good - so i did not use a distribution hitch. the guy i bought it from used a distribution hitch on his astrovan. he said without it the lightweight trailer pushed the van around or the bumper dragged. with the distribution hitch he could level it out and have enough hitch weight to tame it down. -- posted via a free usenet account from http//www.tera.com .

From : snoman

on sat 22 jul 2006 055514 gmt stickbug hotmail@quickmail.com wrote but anyway you said that the shift lever inside the cab on that thing always felt hot. i have the same 318/nv3500/3.21 and mine never gets hot. i think your trans had something wrong from the beginning. the lever can get hot for variuos reasons so that is not much of a indicator but a nv3500 with a 3.21 axle is a ld towing setup at best ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .

From : js

electrician wrote im considering a new dakota and was wondering whether to go with a 3.92 or the standard 3.21 rear end. most of my driving is city and i occasionally pull around 5-6k pounds but not frequently. will the 3.92 have a gas mileage impact around town i know it will on the highway but how bad will it be my dealer complained the 3.21 9.25 config had considerably higher failure rates than the 3.55 or 3.92. they see a lot of 4.10 failures but those are likely abuse-based errors from people buying too little truck... ive got a 318 powered nv3500 5 spd 3.211 2wd 99 ram 1500 club cab. 1st is too low of ratio for serious weight and towing - youll have to play hot-clutch too get moving. i pulled my 92 explorer xlt on a u-haul full aluminum car trailer behind it running in 3rd 3000ish rpm and 4th maintaining 55-60 mph. two weeks later the transmission failed. *shrug* personally id get 3.92 or 4.10 gears if i had to do it all over again... the fuel economy hit is small and may actually be negative overall if you do a lot of city driving or 45-55 mph back-roading and the overall drivability of the truck improves so much especially when towing or hauling. js .

From : stickbug

js wrote ive got a 318 powered nv3500 5 spd 3.211 2wd 99 ram 1500 club cab. 1st is too low of ratio for serious weight and towing - youll have to play hot-clutch too get moving. i pulled my 92 explorer xlt on a u-haul full aluminum car trailer behind it running in 3rd 3000ish rpm and 4th maintaining 55-60 mph. two weeks later the transmission failed. *shrug* oh man! do i need to quote you boasting about how you abused that tranny again i tend to downshift hard with the throttle closed pulling some extreme vacuum. but anyway you said that the shift lever inside the cab on that thing always felt hot. i have the same 318/nv3500/3.21 and mine never gets hot. i think your trans had something wrong from the beginning. .

From : dave lee

on sat 22 jul 2006 102159 -0500 js jsuter@intrastardot.net wrote stickbug wrote js wrote ive got a 318 powered nv3500 5 spd 3.211 2wd 99 ram 1500 club cab. 1st is too low of ratio for serious weight and towing - youll have to play hot-clutch too get moving. i pulled my 92 explorer xlt on a u-haul full aluminum car trailer behind it running in 3rd 3000ish rpm and 4th maintaining 55-60 mph. two weeks later the transmission failed. *shrug* oh man! do i need to quote you boasting about how you abused that tranny again i tend to downshift hard with the throttle closed pulling some extreme vacuum. but anyway you said that the shift lever inside the cab on that thing always felt hot. i have the same 318/nv3500/3.21 and mine never gets hot. i think your trans had something wrong from the beginning. i think it did too. after the swap i had noticeably less driveline slop ie - stick it in say 1st gear e-brake off push the truck back and forth which had been there from the beginning. the downshift hard post got blown out of proportion. what i meant by that was sometimes i close the throttle at like 5000 rpm - that should cause maximal suckage in the intake manifold. one doesnt have to abuse the transmission to do that at all. the hard part wasnt about grabbing the stick and cooking the synchros. iirc the original post was concerning intake plenum gasket replacement methods and their longevity... but i will say - i have babied this transmission a lot more than the original. i also havent hauled any ford exploders behind it since then either. that combo was about 2200 lbs over the book tow rating for the 1500 w/ 3.21 the book says 3100*... the * says not suggested for towing... i have a real hard time believing the dakota weighs that much less which makes me call bs on a similar driveline in it truely being able to handle 6000# towing. now if you want to discuss me abusing the engine.. well... no argument. its gutless-wonder-gas-guzzling ass deserves all the whupping it gets and has ever got. im certain the new nv3500 will survive a properly driven 360 - just a matter of finding a flywheel a gasser 360/nv4500 flywheel may work and getting that junker 318 out of the way. js there was a time when the 318 was a good motor and strong running too. it will respond well to the proper tweaking but honselt the biggest thing hurt your combo is axle ratio because if you had a 3.73 or a 3.91 behind it you would have a completely different opinion of it because a 318 lacks torque because of displacement and deeper gear offset this. even a 3.54 would help ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com out of curiousity what would it cost from a shop to change gearing in a 4x4. .

From : js

stickbug wrote js wrote ive got a 318 powered nv3500 5 spd 3.211 2wd 99 ram 1500 club cab. 1st is too low of ratio for serious weight and towing - youll have to play hot-clutch too get moving. i pulled my 92 explorer xlt on a u-haul full aluminum car trailer behind it running in 3rd 3000ish rpm and 4th maintaining 55-60 mph. two weeks later the transmission failed. *shrug* oh man! do i need to quote you boasting about how you abused that tranny again i tend to downshift hard with the throttle closed pulling some extreme vacuum. but anyway you said that the shift lever inside the cab on that thing always felt hot. i have the same 318/nv3500/3.21 and mine never gets hot. i think your trans had something wrong from the beginning. i think it did too. after the swap i had noticeably less driveline slop ie - stick it in say 1st gear e-brake off push the truck back and forth which had been there from the beginning. the downshift hard post got blown out of proportion. what i meant by that was sometimes i close the throttle at like 5000 rpm - that should cause maximal suckage in the intake manifold. one doesnt have to abuse the transmission to do that at all. the hard part wasnt about grabbing the stick and cooking the synchros. iirc the original post was concerning intake plenum gasket replacement methods and their longevity... but i will say - i have babied this transmission a lot more than the original. i also havent hauled any ford exploders behind it since then either. that combo was about 2200 lbs over the book tow rating for the 1500 w/ 3.21 the book says 3100*... the * says not suggested for towing... i have a real hard time believing the dakota weighs that much less which makes me call bs on a similar driveline in it truely being able to handle 6000# towing. now if you want to discuss me abusing the engine.. well... no argument. its gutless-wonder-gas-guzzling ass deserves all the whupping it gets and has ever got. im certain the new nv3500 will survive a properly driven 360 - just a matter of finding a flywheel a gasser 360/nv4500 flywheel may work and getting that junker 318 out of the way. js .

From : snoman

on sat 22 jul 2006 102159 -0500 js jsuter@intrastardot.net wrote stickbug wrote js wrote ive got a 318 powered nv3500 5 spd 3.211 2wd 99 ram 1500 club cab. 1st is too low of ratio for serious weight and towing - youll have to play hot-clutch too get moving. i pulled my 92 explorer xlt on a u-haul full aluminum car trailer behind it running in 3rd 3000ish rpm and 4th maintaining 55-60 mph. two weeks later the transmission failed. *shrug* oh man! do i need to quote you boasting about how you abused that tranny again i tend to downshift hard with the throttle closed pulling some extreme vacuum. but anyway you said that the shift lever inside the cab on that thing always felt hot. i have the same 318/nv3500/3.21 and mine never gets hot. i think your trans had something wrong from the beginning. i think it did too. after the swap i had noticeably less driveline slop ie - stick it in say 1st gear e-brake off push the truck back and forth which had been there from the beginning. the downshift hard post got blown out of proportion. what i meant by that was sometimes i close the throttle at like 5000 rpm - that should cause maximal suckage in the intake manifold. one doesnt have to abuse the transmission to do that at all. the hard part wasnt about grabbing the stick and cooking the synchros. iirc the original post was concerning intake plenum gasket replacement methods and their longevity... but i will say - i have babied this transmission a lot more than the original. i also havent hauled any ford exploders behind it since then either. that combo was about 2200 lbs over the book tow rating for the 1500 w/ 3.21 the book says 3100*... the * says not suggested for towing... i have a real hard time believing the dakota weighs that much less which makes me call bs on a similar driveline in it truely being able to handle 6000# towing. now if you want to discuss me abusing the engine.. well... no argument. its gutless-wonder-gas-guzzling ass deserves all the whupping it gets and has ever got. im certain the new nv3500 will survive a properly driven 360 - just a matter of finding a flywheel a gasser 360/nv4500 flywheel may work and getting that junker 318 out of the way. js there was a time when the 318 was a good motor and strong running too. it will respond well to the proper tweaking but honselt the biggest thing hurt your combo is axle ratio because if you had a 3.73 or a 3.91 behind it you would have a completely different opinion of it because a 318 lacks torque because of displacement and deeper gear offset this. even a 3.54 would help ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .

From : tbone

on sat 22 jul 2006 102159 -0500 js jsuter@intrastardot.net wrote stickbug wrote js wrote ive got a 318 powered nv3500 5 spd 3.211 2wd 99 ram 1500 club cab. 1st is too low of ratio for serious weight and towing - youll have to play hot-clutch too get moving. i pulled my 92 explorer xlt on a u-haul full aluminum car trailer behind it running in 3rd 3000ish rpm and 4th maintaining 55-60 mph. two weeks later the transmission failed. *shrug* oh man! do i need to quote you boasting about how you abused that tranny again i tend to downshift hard with the throttle closed pulling some extreme vacuum. but anyway you said that the shift lever inside the cab on that thing always felt hot. i have the same 318/nv3500/3.21 and mine never gets hot. i think your trans had something wrong from the beginning. i think it did too. after the swap i had noticeably less driveline slop ie - stick it in say 1st gear e-brake off push the truck back and forth which had been there from the beginning. the downshift hard post got blown out of proportion. what i meant by that was sometimes i close the throttle at like 5000 rpm - that should cause maximal suckage in the intake manifold. one doesnt have to abuse the transmission to do that at all. the hard part wasnt about grabbing the stick and cooking the synchros. iirc the original post was concerning intake plenum gasket replacement methods and their longevity... but i will say - i have babied this transmission a lot more than the original. i also havent hauled any ford exploders behind it since then either. that combo was about 2200 lbs over the book tow rating for the 1500 w/ 3.21 the book says 3100*... the * says not suggested for towing... i have a real hard time believing the dakota weighs that much less which makes me call bs on a similar driveline in it truely being able to handle 6000# towing. now if you want to discuss me abusing the engine.. well... no argument. its gutless-wonder-gas-guzzling ass deserves all the whupping it gets and has ever got. im certain the new nv3500 will survive a properly driven 360 - just a matter of finding a flywheel a gasser 360/nv4500 flywheel may work and getting that junker 318 out of the way. js there was a time when the 318 was a good motor and strong running too. it will respond well to the proper tweaking but honselt the biggest thing hurt your combo is axle ratio because if you had a 3.73 or a 3.91 behind it you would have a completely different opinion of it because a 318 lacks torque because of displacement and deeper gear offset this. even a 3.54 would help ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com out of curiousity what would it cost from a shop to change gearing in a 4x4. that would require a rebuild of both axles and at around $800 a piece depending on area it would cost far more than it would be worth. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : joe smith

tbone tbonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote in on sat 22 jul 2006 102159 -0500 js jsuter@intrastardot.net wrote stickbug wrote js wrote ive got a 318 powered nv3500 5 spd 3.211 2wd 99 ram 1500 club cab. 1st is too low of ratio for serious weight and towing - youll have to play hot-clutch too get moving. i pulled my 92 explorer xlt on a u-haul full aluminum car trailer behind it running in 3rd 3000ish rpm and 4th maintaining 55-60 mph. two weeks later the transmission failed. *shrug* oh man! do i need to quote you boasting about how you abused that tranny again i tend to downshift hard with the throttle closed pulling some extreme vacuum. but anyway you said that the shift lever inside the cab on that thing always felt hot. i have the same 318/nv3500/3.21 and mine never gets hot. i think your trans had something wrong from the beginning. i think it did too. after the swap i had noticeably less driveline slop ie - stick it in say 1st gear e-brake off push the truck back and forth which had been there from the beginning. the downshift hard post got blown out of proportion. what i meant by that was sometimes i close the throttle at like 5000 rpm - that should cause maximal suckage in the intake manifold. one doesnt have to abuse the transmission to do that at all. the hard part wasnt about grabbing the stick and cooking the synchros. iirc the original post was concerning intake plenum gasket replacement methods and their longevity... but i will say - i have babied this transmission a lot more than the original. i also havent hauled any ford exploders behind it since then either. that combo was about 2200 lbs over the book tow rating for the 1500 w/ 3.21 the book says 3100*... the * says not suggested for towing... i have a real hard time believing the dakota weighs that much less which makes me call bs on a similar driveline in it truely being able to handle 6000# towing. now if you want to discuss me abusing the engine.. well... no argument. its gutless-wonder-gas-guzzling ass deserves all the whupping it gets and has ever got. im certain the new nv3500 will survive a properly driven 360 - just a matter of finding a flywheel a gasser 360/nv4500 flywheel may work and getting that junker 318 out of the way. js there was a time when the 318 was a good motor and strong running too. it will respond well to the proper tweaking but honselt the biggest thing hurt your combo is axle ratio because if you had a 3.73 or a 3.91 behind it you would have a completely different opinion of it because a 318 lacks torque because of displacement and deeper gear offset this. even a 3.54 would help ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com out of curiousity what would it cost from a shop to change gearing in a 4x4. that would require a rebuild of both axles and at around $800 a piece depending on area it would cost far more than it would be worth. whether it is worth the money or not is completely subjective. you can only say that it wouldnt be worth it for you. .

From : tbone

stickbug wrote js wrote ive got a 318 powered nv3500 5 spd 3.211 2wd 99 ram 1500 club cab. 1st is too low of ratio for serious weight and towing - youll have to play hot-clutch too get moving. i pulled my 92 explorer xlt on a u-haul full aluminum car trailer behind it running in 3rd 3000ish rpm and 4th maintaining 55-60 mph. two weeks later the transmission failed. *shrug* oh man! do i need to quote you boasting about how you abused that tranny again i tend to downshift hard with the throttle closed pulling some extreme vacuum. but anyway you said that the shift lever inside the cab on that thing always felt hot. i have the same 318/nv3500/3.21 and mine never gets hot. i think your trans had something wrong from the beginning. i think it did too. after the swap i had noticeably less driveline slop ie - stick it in say 1st gear e-brake off push the truck back and forth which had been there from the beginning. the downshift hard post got blown out of proportion. what i meant by that was sometimes i close the throttle at like 5000 rpm - that should cause maximal suckage in the intake manifold. one doesnt have to abuse the transmission to do that at all. the hard part wasnt about grabbing the stick and cooking the synchros. iirc the original post was concerning intake plenum gasket replacement methods and their longevity... but i will say - i have babied this transmission a lot more than the original. i also havent hauled any ford exploders behind it since then either. that combo was about 2200 lbs over the book tow rating for the 1500 w/ 3.21 the book says 3100*... the * says not suggested for towing... i have a real hard time believing the dakota weighs that much less which makes me call bs on a similar driveline in it truely being able to handle 6000# towing. now if you want to discuss me abusing the engine.. well... no argument. its gutless-wonder-gas-guzzling ass deserves all the whupping it gets and has ever got. im certain the new nv3500 will survive a properly driven 360 - just a matter of finding a flywheel a gasser 360/nv4500 flywheel may work and getting that junker 318 out of the way. there was a reason why dc didnt offer a 5 speed with the 360 such as the nv3500 just cant deal with the torque. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone tbonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote in on sat 22 jul 2006 102159 -0500 js jsuter@intrastardot.net wrote stickbug wrote js wrote ive got a 318 powered nv3500 5 spd 3.211 2wd 99 ram 1500 club cab. 1st is too low of ratio for serious weight and towing - youll have to play hot-clutch too get moving. i pulled my 92 explorer xlt on a u-haul full aluminum car trailer behind it running in 3rd 3000ish rpm and 4th maintaining 55-60 mph. two weeks later the transmission failed. *shrug* oh man! do i need to quote you boasting about how you abused that tranny again i tend to downshift hard with the throttle closed pulling some extreme vacuum. but anyway you said that the shift lever inside the cab on that thing always felt hot. i have the same 318/nv3500/3.21 and mine never gets hot. i think your trans had something wrong from the beginning. i think it did too. after the swap i had noticeably less driveline slop ie - stick it in say 1st gear e-brake off push the truck back and forth which had been there from the beginning. the downshift hard post got blown out of proportion. what i meant by that was sometimes i close the throttle at like 5000 rpm - that should cause maximal suckage in the intake manifold. one doesnt have to abuse the transmission to do that at all. the hard part wasnt about grabbing the stick and cooking the synchros. iirc the original post was concerning intake plenum gasket replacement methods and their longevity... but i will say - i have babied this transmission a lot more than the original. i also havent hauled any ford exploders behind it since then either. that combo was about 2200 lbs over the book tow rating for the 1500 w/ 3.21 the book says 3100*... the * says not suggested for towing... i have a real hard time believing the dakota weighs that much less which makes me call bs on a similar driveline in it truely being able to handle 6000# towing. now if you want to discuss me abusing the engine.. well... no argument. its gutless-wonder-gas-guzzling ass deserves all the whupping it gets and has ever got. im certain the new nv3500 will survive a properly driven 360 - just a matter of finding a flywheel a gasser 360/nv4500 flywheel may work and getting that junker 318 out of the way. js there was a time when the 318 was a good motor and strong running too. it will respond well to the proper tweaking but honselt the biggest thing hurt your combo is axle ratio because if you had a 3.73 or a 3.91 behind it you would have a completely different opinion of it because a 318 lacks torque because of displacement and deeper gear offset this. even a 3.54 would help ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com out of curiousity what would it cost from a shop to change gearing in a 4x4. that would require a rebuild of both axles and at around $800 a piece depending on area it would cost far more than it would be worth. whether it is worth the money or not is completely subjective. you can only say that it wouldnt be worth it for you. you are correct i should have said probably cost more than it would be worth and then you have to add it if the shop actually knows what it is doing here. changing those gears is not just a slap in thing and if they are not set up properly you can kiss those new and expensive gears goodbye. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : snoman

on sat 22 jul 2006 162155 gmt tbone tbonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote that would require a rebuild of both axles and at around $800 a piece depending on area it would cost far more than it would be worth. not sure where you are getting this you do not need to rebuild the axle becuase moct of the time the bearings in it ar fine unless the are subject to neglect. so they can be reused. you can get gears for both axles together for about 300 total on internet and you should be able to get them installed for a total of 400 to 600 bucks because they are not hard axles to work on. the last thing you want to do is get parts from a dealer or have work done there too as you will get scalped. use a yukon or precision gear for axles if you do it and stay away from richmond because they are about a b grade replacement at best. ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .

From : snoman

on sat 22 jul 2006 162402 gmt tbone tbonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote there was a reason why dc didnt offer a 5 speed with the 360 such as the nv3500 just cant deal with the torque. i do not agree. typicaly the 360s were in 3/4 ton trucks is likely the main reason that 3500 were not used because the torque difference it not that great between them but the potenail load on them in a 1/2 ton vs 3/4 ton is different. ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .

From : tbone

on sat 22 jul 2006 162155 gmt tbone tbonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote that would require a rebuild of both axles and at around $800 a piece depending on area it would cost far more than it would be worth. not sure where you are getting this you do not need to rebuild the axle becuase moct of the time the bearings in it ar fine unless the are subject to neglect. so they can be reused. you can get gears for both axles together for about 300 total on internet and you should be able to get them installed for a total of 400 to 600 bucks because they are not hard axles to work on. the last thing you want to do is get parts from a dealer or have work done there too as you will get scalped. use a yukon or precision gear for axles if you do it and stay away from richmond because they are about a b grade replacement at best. lol you are kidding right have you ever done this because from what im reading above i doubt it. please tell me labor wise what exactly is the difference between swapping gears and a rebuild. ill give you a hint the carrier bearings and if you are working on the dc 9 1/4 rear you would be an idiot not to replace both the carrier and the pinion bearings anyway and save yourself the grief of having to replace them at around 60000 when they tend to fail. otherwise the labor and steps required are exactly the same and when you replace the pinion just like in a rebuild the time required jumps up because now you have to set the pinion depth all over again which can be time consuming when done correctly. if you know someone willing to do it for $300 and who actually knows what they are doing post the number and address as that really is a bargain. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : denny

on sat 22 jul 2006 162155 gmt tbone tbonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote that would require a rebuild of both axles and at around $800 a piece depending on area it would cost far more than it would be worth. not sure where you are getting this you do not need to rebuild the axle becuase moct of the time the bearings in it ar fine unless the are subject to neglect. so they can be reused. you can get gears for both axles together for about 300 total on internet and you should be able to get them installed for a total of 400 to 600 bucks because they are not hard axles to work on. the last thing you want to do is get parts from a dealer or have work done there too as you will get scalped. use a yukon or precision gear for axles if you do it and stay away from richmond because they are about a b grade replacement at best. lol you are kidding right have you ever done this because from what im reading above i doubt it. please tell me labor wise what exactly is the difference between swapping gears and a rebuild. ill give you a hint the carrier bearings and if you are working on the dc 9 1/4 rear you would be an idiot not to replace both the carrier and the pinion bearings anyway and save yourself the grief of having to replace them at around 60000 when they tend to fail. otherwise the labor and steps required are exactly the same and when you replace the pinion just like in a rebuild the time required jumps up because now you have to set the pinion depth all over again which can be time consuming when done correctly. if you know someone willing to do it for $300 and who actually knows what they are doing post the number and address as that really is a bargain. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tom i know this means nothing coming from me but congratulations on your promotion. your spot in the group has been taken by the snoidiot. vbg denny .

From : snoman

on sat 22 jul 2006 195949 gmt tbone tbonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote lol you are kidding right have you ever done this because from what im reading above i doubt it. please tell me labor wise what exactly is the difference between swapping gears and a rebuild. ill give you a hint the carrier bearings and if you are working on the dc 9 1/4 rear you would be an idiot not to replace both the carrier and the pinion bearings anyway and save yourself the grief of having to replace them at around 60000 when they tend to fail. otherwise the labor and steps required are exactly the same and when you replace the pinion just like in a rebuild the time required jumps up because now you have to set the pinion depth all over again which can be time consuming when done correctly. if you know someone willing to do it for $300 and who actually knows what they are doing post the number and address as that really is a bargain. most 9.1/4 failure are due to neglect because people think that you do not even need to check or change rear axle lube and if you do this you may have problem. i messed around with a up 67 charger with a very warm 383 in it and a 4 speed 30 years ago and it had the early 9 1/4 rear axle in it and it took a terible beating without failure. the 9 1/4 is not weak rear end but it is prone to trouble if you never change the fluid in it which most do not do. change the fluid after a few k miles when new and then even 15 to 20 k after that if you play hard and it will hold up fine but most seem to think that it never needs changing. ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .

From : dave lee

tbone tbonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote in on sat 22 jul 2006 102159 -0500 js jsuter@intrastardot.net wrote stickbug wrote js wrote ive got a 318 powered nv3500 5 spd 3.211 2wd 99 ram 1500 club cab. 1st is too low of ratio for serious weight and towing - youll have to play hot-clutch too get moving. i pulled my 92 explorer xlt on a u-haul full aluminum car trailer behind it running in 3rd 3000ish rpm and 4th maintaining 55-60 mph. two weeks later the transmission failed. *shrug* oh man! do i need to quote you boasting about how you abused that tranny again i tend to downshift hard with the throttle closed pulling some extreme vacuum. but anyway you said that the shift lever inside the cab on that thing always felt hot. i have the same 318/nv3500/3.21 and mine never gets hot. i think your trans had something wrong from the beginning. i think it did too. after the swap i had noticeably less driveline slop ie - stick it in say 1st gear e-brake off push the truck back and forth which had been there from the beginning. the downshift hard post got blown out of proportion. what i meant by that was sometimes i close the throttle at like 5000 rpm - that should cause maximal suckage in the intake manifold. one doesnt have to abuse the transmission to do that at all. the hard part wasnt about grabbing the stick and cooking the synchros. iirc the original post was concerning intake plenum gasket replacement methods and their longevity... but i will say - i have babied this transmission a lot more than the original. i also havent hauled any ford exploders behind it since then either. that combo was about 2200 lbs over the book tow rating for the 1500 w/ 3.21 the book says 3100*... the * says not suggested for towing... i have a real hard time believing the dakota weighs that much less which makes me call bs on a similar driveline in it truely being able to handle 6000# towing. now if you want to discuss me abusing the engine.. well... no argument. its gutless-wonder-gas-guzzling ass deserves all the whupping it gets and has ever got. im certain the new nv3500 will survive a properly driven 360 - just a matter of finding a flywheel a gasser 360/nv4500 flywheel may work and getting that junker 318 out of the way. js there was a time when the 318 was a good motor and strong running too. it will respond well to the proper tweaking but honselt the biggest thing hurt your combo is axle ratio because if you had a 3.73 or a 3.91 behind it you would have a completely different opinion of it because a 318 lacks torque because of displacement and deeper gear offset this. even a 3.54 would help ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com out of curiousity what would it cost from a shop to change gearing in a 4x4. that would require a rebuild of both axles and at around $800 a piece depending on area it would cost far more than it would be worth. whether it is worth the money or not is completely subjective. you can only say that it wouldnt be worth it for you. i ask since i may be in for a rear end rebuild in the future therefore i would be committing to that axle anyway. therefore an additional axle doesnt sound as bad as just saying both axles at $800.00 .

From : mac davis

on thu 20 jul 2006 144005 -0500 frank boettcher fboettcher@comcast.net wrote mac do you use a weight distribution hitch sway bars if so your opinion on how much they actually help in controlling the load. frank yeah we have the drawtite wd hitch... it was what the dealer that we bought the trailer from stocked and we wanted to keep the costs down.. it was intimidating at first especially when they warned us about severe injury probable if you didnt follow all the steps involved in hitching/unhitching the spring bars... turned out to be a piece of cake after a little practice... i remember when the finished putting the receiver on the ram and hooked up the trailer... the back end of the ram went down over a foot and my wife & i freaked! we thought we were going to have to put air bags or something on it.. the guy looked at our faces and laughed.. said he got that expression every time and not to worry.. he jacked the trailer to level cranked on the wd bars and let it down and the truck was level.. amazing... weve done several long trips and been through areas with cross winds and such never a sway... love it! they told us to start at three links hanging... that was how many links were free at the end of each chain on the bars... leveled it right out and handled well... as we used the trailer more and added more gotta bring that stuff we noticed that the truck bumper was down a little in the back and tried 4 links free... perfect! that said i have to do a if id known then thing we had assumed that 5th wheels were for huge trailers and 3/4 or 1 ton trucks... if we had known that there were fivers that were even shorter than our travel trailer and being pulled all the time with 1/2 ton trucks we would have gone that route... ymwv mac https//home.comcast.net/mac.davis https//home.comcast.net/mac.davis/woodstuff.htm .

From : frank boettcher

on wed 26 jul 2006 072449 -0700 mac davis mac.davis@splinters.comcast.net wrote on thu 20 jul 2006 144005 -0500 frank boettcher fboettcher@comcast.net wrote mac do you use a weight distribution hitch sway bars if so your opinion on how much they actually help in controlling the load. frank yeah we have the drawtite wd hitch... it was what the dealer that we bought the trailer from stocked and we wanted to keep the costs down.. it was intimidating at first especially when they warned us about severe injury probable if you didnt follow all the steps involved in hitching/unhitching the spring bars... turned out to be a piece of cake after a little practice... i remember when the finished putting the receiver on the ram and hooked up the trailer... the back end of the ram went down over a foot and my wife & i freaked! we thought we were going to have to put air bags or something on it.. the guy looked at our faces and laughed.. said he got that expression every time and not to worry.. he jacked the trailer to level cranked on the wd bars and let it down and the truck was level.. amazing... weve done several long trips and been through areas with cross winds and such never a sway... love it! they told us to start at three links hanging... that was how many links were free at the end of each chain on the bars... leveled it right out and handled well... as we used the trailer more and added more gotta bring that stuff we noticed that the truck bumper was down a little in the back and tried 4 links free... perfect! that said i have to do a if id known then thing we had assumed that 5th wheels were for huge trailers and 3/4 or 1 ton trucks... if we had known that there were fivers that were even shorter than our travel trailer and being pulled all the time with 1/2 ton trucks we would have gone that route... ymwv mac https//home.comcast.net/mac.davis https//home.comcast.net/mac.davis/woodstuff.htm thanks i need to set up my dakota to tow just under 4k. will probably go with a wd hitch. probably marginal however if i dont think it will stand up to it ill trade the truck up to something with more guts. frank .

From : js

snoman wrote on sat 22 jul 2006 162402 gmt tbone tbonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote there was a reason why dc didnt offer a 5 speed with the 360 such as the nv3500 just cant deal with the torque. i do not agree. typicaly the 360s were in 3/4 ton trucks is likely the main reason that 3500 were not used because the torque difference it not that great between them but the potenail load on them in a 1/2 ton vs 3/4 ton is different. new venture rated the nv3500 at 300 ft/lbs the 360 at least in 99 produced 335 ft/lbs peak torque. thats 11% more torque than the trans was specd to take. myself if i do a 360 swap at this point id seriously consider keeping my 318 heads/intake/exhaust in an attempt to conserve fuel. itd likely help the cruise torque but it would take away a little peak output... wonder if the computer would notice im starting to suspect something is going bad on that 318 anyways... oil is going dark a little quick... im suspecting rings - could be a head gasket too. hmm. who knows. i do have to do something about its fuel consumption though its down in the 5-8 mpg range again... at $3/gal that shits expensive. maybe i should just sell it and buy a trailer to put behind my santa fe.. hmm. im not sure id get enough money to buy a decent trailer and hitch... js .

From : denny

myself if i do a 360 swap at this point id seriously consider keeping my 318 heads/intake/exhaust in an attempt to conserve fuel. itd likely help the cruise torque but it would take away a little peak output... wonder if the computer would notice js the 5.2l heads intake and exhaust manifolds are the same as the 5.9l. the 5.9l will run with your original pcm altho the timing curves are a little different. you may not pass emissions if you have it in your area. check out hughsengines.com if you want to play with the 5.9 before you make the switch. ive used their cams several times over the years and have always been happy with the results. what i picked out as what i thought i needed and then they told me what i really needed and they were right every time. denny .

From : tbone

tbone wrote the fact that it is becoming known that the 1500 series ram tends to have rear axle problems at around 60000 miles pretty much shows it to be a problem with the rear rather than a maintenance issue. my 2001 ram has 80000 on it. i use it quite a bit for towing and no problems. i have changed the diff oil twice since new. like i said the bearings are not total crap just not the best available. perhaps you got lucky and got a good set. they dont all fail just an unacceptable number of them do. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .