OT Poll!!!! Who wins???

From : roy

Q: suddenly without warning jmc exclaimed 2/6/2008 647 am ive posted about this before; i had the dealer do the tsb that resets the steering wheel but the sound is still there. ive a 2001 dodge dakota slt 4x4. theres a creaking noise when i turn the steering wheel seems worse left or when i go over a bumpy road. seems to be in the front end somewhere but im not sure where. it doesnt seem to be anything horribly dangerous - we just got back from a 3000 mile journey across the australian outback and the great ocean road through a variety of climates from really-hot-and-dry to raining-and-cool we experienced temperatures ranging from about 52f-104f and nothing fell off the truck. still worried something might though g. it could be old truck syndrome but i want to make sure. jmc i forgot. doubt if its related but ill throw this in too just in case although the truck has plenty of power it isnt accelerating like it should. once it gets going its fine but it takes more time than it used to to accelerate through the gears. another case of old truck syndrome takes me longer to get going too these days. g that acceleration is dearly needed when passing road trains 18-wheelers with three and sometimes 3.5 trailers. road train piccies scroll to the bottom for the longest http//members.tripod.com/kingsley-foreman/towtruckphotos/id11.html jmc jodi that link hold for a couple of seconds then goes into a ad. roy .

Replies:

From : miles

tbone wrote yes miles bought paid for and ran by the american company. oh ya read up on carlos slim. he is one of the major american franchise owners. the american companies dont get the lions share of profit. he does. .

From : miles

mac davis wrote now thats baja.. i cant speak for mainland mx but you would think that anywhere around a big city would have excellent health care.. where about in baja my folks are in baja mar if you know where that is. also have a sister who has a beach home in la mision. .

From : miles

roy wrote ken mac moved there not that long ago and seems to really enjoy it. where did he move my folks live in baja mar which is just north of ensenada on baja. i also have my sister in laws family in ciudad obergon and san carlos. .

From : miles

tbone wrote did i actually do something to you mac or is being an asshole a new thing for ya resorting to name calling says it all! .

From : mac davis

on tue 5 feb 2008 194932 -0500 roy roy@fhome.net wrote super tuesday who wins dem and repub. pick a winner in each. after the super bowl im not picking anything for a bit.vbg roy nobody worth a shit imo... i guess as long as they dont invade mexico ill continue to not give a shit i guess.. mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : royjoe

$4c368faf@roadrunner.com super tuesday who wins dem and repub. pick a winner in each. after the super bowl im not picking anything for a bit.vbg roy dont know about the winners but it appears that america will be the loser. theres just not all that much to pick from with these two motley crews... .

From : miles

roy wrote super tuesday who wins dem and repub. pick a winner in each. after the super bowl im not picking anything for a bit.vbg i liked thompson but hes out. whats left is worthless. there honestly isnt anyone still in the running thats worth a dang from either party. .

From : miles

joe wrote dont know about the winners but it appears that america will be the loser. theres just not all that much to pick from with these two motley crews... every one of the remaining candidates seems to support an open border. we made that mistake in the 80s and seem to be geared up to repeat it. .

From : jmc

suddenly without warning jmc exclaimed 2/6/2008 908 pm suddenly without warning joe exclaimed 2/6/2008 1028 am $4c368faf@roadrunner.com super tuesday who wins dem and repub. pick a winner in each. after the super bowl im not picking anything for a bit.vbg roy dont know about the winners but it appears that america will be the loser. theres just not all that much to pick from with these two motley crews... beat me to it. my candidates not going to win anyway. no i wont tell you im on vacation and dont want to get into a political debate. like joe i think until we all get off our fat butts and do something we all lose. we should all vote our conscience and to hell with who wins the primaries. im voting for my candidate no matter who wins in the primaries. thats what write-in votes are for. the one who kisses the corporations butts the best wins anyway. the average citizen loses. bah! jmc sorry for the dupe. system hiccuped. jmc .

From : mac davis

on wed 06 feb 2008 210603 +0930 jmc nogroupsspam@nojodibody.homeus wrote beat me to it. my candidates not going to win anyway. no i wont tell you im on vacation and dont want to get into a political debate. like joe i think until we all get off our fat butts and do something we all lose. we should all vote our conscience and to hell with who wins the primaries. im voting for my candidate no matter who wins in the primaries. thats what write-in votes are for. the one who kisses the corporations butts the best wins anyway. the average citizen loses. bah! jmc 2 changes that i think would help a lot but will never happen make it a popular vote and get rid of the electoral college... the ec worked well when only rich land owners could read but i hope were past that.. dump it and make it a one person-one vote election.. have an additional vote box labeled none of the above.. if a certain percentage vote nota they have a set time to get different candidates and try again.. oh.. and make me ruler of the world for a weekend.. its good to be king.. mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : bob m

mac davis wrote on wed 06 feb 2008 210603 +0930 jmc nogroupsspam@nojodibody.homeus wrote beat me to it. my candidates not going to win anyway. no i wont tell you im on vacation and dont want to get into a political debate. like joe i think until we all get off our fat butts and do something we all lose. we should all vote our conscience and to hell with who wins the primaries. im voting for my candidate no matter who wins in the primaries. thats what write-in votes are for. the one who kisses the corporations butts the best wins anyway. the average citizen loses. bah! jmc 2 changes that i think would help a lot but will never happen make it a popular vote and get rid of the electoral college... the ec worked well when only rich land owners could read but i hope were past that.. dump it and make it a one person-one vote election.. have an additional vote box labeled none of the above.. if a certain percentage vote nota they have a set time to get different candidates and try again.. oh.. and make me ruler of the world for a weekend.. its good to be king.. mac please remove splinters before emailing i couldnt agree more. and mac i would vote for you. bob .

From : roy

on wed 06 feb 2008 210603 +0930 jmc nogroupsspam@nojodibody.homeus wrote beat me to it. my candidates not going to win anyway. no i wont tell you im on vacation and dont want to get into a political debate. like joe i think until we all get off our fat butts and do something we all lose. we should all vote our conscience and to hell with who wins the primaries. im voting for my candidate no matter who wins in the primaries. thats what write-in votes are for. the one who kisses the corporations butts the best wins anyway. the average citizen loses. bah! jmc 2 changes that i think would help a lot but will never happen make it a popular vote and get rid of the electoral college... the ec worked well when only rich land owners could read but i hope were past that.. dump it and make it a one person-one vote election.. have an additional vote box labeled none of the above.. if a certain percentage vote nota they have a set time to get different candidates and try again.. oh.. and make me ruler of the world for a weekend.. its good to be king.. so bro ya want to be king for a day huh ya have to come up with knights of the round table a court jester sombody to ring the bell im sure rabbit will be on the menu and ya need a queen i can come up with a few candidates for that position. shit ya could start with peterd he wants to be moderator so he strives for a position of authority id bet hed be a wonderful queen for ya. vbg roy mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : jmc

suddenly without warning joe exclaimed 2/6/2008 1028 am $4c368faf@roadrunner.com super tuesday who wins dem and repub. pick a winner in each. after the super bowl im not picking anything for a bit.vbg roy dont know about the winners but it appears that america will be the loser. theres just not all that much to pick from with these two motley crews... beat me to it. my candidates not going to win anyway. no i wont tell you im on vacation and dont want to get into a political debate. like joe i think until we all get off our fat butts and do something we all lose. we should all vote our conscience and to hell with who wins the primaries. im voting for my candidate no matter who wins in the primaries. thats what write-in votes are for. the one who kisses the corporations butts the best wins anyway. the average citizen loses. bah! jmc .

From : jmc

suddenly without warning joe exclaimed 2/6/2008 1028 am $4c368faf@roadrunner.com super tuesday who wins dem and repub. pick a winner in each. after the super bowl im not picking anything for a bit.vbg roy dont know about the winners but it appears that america will be the loser. theres just not all that much to pick from with these two motley crews... beat me to it. my candidates not going to win anyway. no i wont tell you im on vacation and dont want to get into a political debate. like joe i think until we all get off our fat butts and do something we all lose. we should all vote our conscience and to hell with who wins the primaries. im voting for my candidate no matter who wins in the primaries. thats what write-in votes are for. the one who kisses the corporations butts the best wins anyway. the average citizen loses. bah! jmc .

From : mac davis

on wed 6 feb 2008 202008 -0500 roy roy@fhome.net wrote damn i had you in line for queen bro.. with snojob as princess.. not bad bro not bad.g roy thank you kind sir.. *bow* mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : miles

mac davis wrote afaik cities are the deciding voting base now because of population density so im not sure it would be any different with a popular vote.. if we had a pure democracy then 5 states would control 75% of the vote. luckily we have an electoral that gives the other states a voice. .

From : fmb

on tue 5 feb 2008 194932 -0500 roy roy@fhome.net wrote super tuesday who wins dem and repub. pick a winner in each. after the super bowl im not picking anything for a bit.vbg roy nobody worth a shit imo... i guess as long as they dont invade mexico ill continue to not give a shit i guess.. mac invade mexico dont you have it backwards mac with osama mrs anklepants or mccain all those invaders will become welcome citizens wont they fmb el norte mexico -- posted via a free usenet account from http//www.tera.com .

From : joe

bob m ram1220@vzavenue.net wrote in mac davis wrote on wed 06 feb 2008 210603 +0930 jmc nogroupsspam@nojodibody.homeus wrote beat me to it. my candidates not going to win anyway. no i wont tell you im on vacation and dont want to get into a political debate. like joe i think until we all get off our fat butts and do something we all lose. we should all vote our conscience and to hell with who wins the primaries. im voting for my candidate no matter who wins in the primaries. thats what write-in votes are for. the one who kisses the corporations butts the best wins anyway. the average citizen loses. bah! jmc 2 changes that i think would help a lot but will never happen make it a popular vote and get rid of the electoral college... the ec worked well when only rich land owners could read but i hope were past that.. dump it and make it a one person-one vote election.. have an additional vote box labeled none of the above.. if a certain percentage vote nota they have a set time to get different candidates and try again.. oh.. and make me ruler of the world for a weekend.. its good to be king.. mac please remove splinters before emailing i couldnt agree more. and mac i would vote for you. bob sounds great to me. and lets get rid of the absurd primaries while were at it. .

From : mac davis

on wed 06 feb 2008 090328 -0600 t wayne moore kc5koh@neto.com wrote im considering selling my dodge p/u. is this the correct group or is there another to ask advise yes. to post an advertisement of any type no. who the hell made you the moderator stfu!! ya damn wannabe roy subtlety ainy yer forte is it roy ;^ mike .

From : miles

i dont know about the 4x4 but the 2x4 parts are moog. suddenly without warning abby.normal exclaimed 2/6/2008 857 am suddenly without warning jmc exclaimed 2/6/2008 647 am ive posted about this before; i had the dealer do the tsb that resets the steering wheel but the sound is still there. ive a 2001 dodge dakota slt 4x4. theres a creaking noise when i turn the steering wheel seems worse left or when i go over a bumpy road. seems to be in the front end somewhere but im not sure where. it doesnt seem to be anything horribly dangerous - we just got back from a 3000 mile journey across the australian outback and the great ocean road through a variety of climates from really-hot-and-dry to raining-and-cool we experienced temperatures ranging from about 52f-104f and nothing fell off the truck. still worried something might though g. it could be old truck syndrome but i want to make sure. jmc i forgot. doubt if its related but ill throw this in too just in case although the truck has plenty of power it isnt accelerating like it should. once it gets going its fine but it takes more time than it used to to accelerate through the gears. another case of old truck syndrome takes me longer to get going too these days. g that acceleration is dearly needed when passing road trains 18-wheelers with three and sometimes 3.5 trailers. road train piccies scroll to the bottom for the longest http//members.tripod.com/kingsley-foreman/towtruckphotos/id11.html jmc control arm bushings - most likely upper. both mine needed them replaced. made squeeking noisewhen turning and going over bumps. ok. a quick google suggests that for my truck i cant easily get the bushings alone id have to replace the control arms too true is this a major job expensive if this is the problem should i do it now or can i wait the 4+ months till i get back to the us and can get it done there cheaper jmc .

From : roy

on wed 6 feb 2008 140505 -0500 roy roy@home.net wrote oh.. and make me ruler of the world for a weekend.. its good to be king.. so bro ya want to be king for a day huh ya have to come up with knights of the round table a court jester sombody to ring the bell im sure rabbit will be on the menu and ya need a queen i can come up with a few candidates for that position. shit ya could start with peterd he wants to be moderator so he strives for a position of authority id bet hed be a wonderful queen for ya. vbg roy damn i had you in line for queen bro.. with snojob as princess.. not bad bro not bad.g roy mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : mac davis

on wed 6 feb 2008 140505 -0500 roy roy@home.net wrote oh.. and make me ruler of the world for a weekend.. its good to be king.. so bro ya want to be king for a day huh ya have to come up with knights of the round table a court jester sombody to ring the bell im sure rabbit will be on the menu and ya need a queen i can come up with a few candidates for that position. shit ya could start with peterd he wants to be moderator so he strives for a position of authority id bet hed be a wonderful queen for ya. vbg roy damn i had you in line for queen bro.. with snojob as princess.. mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : mac davis

on sat 9 feb 2008 135848 -0500 tbone noway@nothere.com wrote and why do you think that it is so cheep. because its a bird or is that chirp one of the many reasons that its less expensive is that we dont have any of those bull shit law suits here with millions of dollars in punitive damages.. you know of course that most of the cost of medical treatment in the states in for malpractice insurance.. the doctors here are assisted with med school and have to spend time in rural areas to pay back the cost of their education... not having huge student loans to repay they can charge a lot less than us medical professionals.. heres a guess. no shit.. perhaps because even at that low rate most of the citizens of that country cant afford it. you really need to take a ride into the country and see what it is like all over not just in your little american retirement area. and im not talking about just the big cities either. well i see that you know more about this than i do t.. as usual.. your head must hurt from having so much information in it.. this is insurance for gringos.. the nationals dont need it because they get public health care.. id guess that ive been a lot further into the country than you have and met more mexicans than the ones that mow your lawn.. id guess that even if we stayed inside our little retirement community wed see a lot more of mexico than you do on the history channel.. if you bother to re-read the question it was about healthcare for travelers not conditions of the country or anything else that you have half assed knowledge of.. our local doctor is excellent and the hospitals in mexicali are top notch.. im sure that they are as they are primarily dealing with the rich americans that have moved down there and yes mac compared to the income of many mexicans you are one of the rich ones. im glad you filled me in on that.. being an expert and all.. thanks.. its always amusing to hear what the world looks like from your viewpoint though it would smell better if your head wasnt so far up your ass.. several folks down here prefer the care here to the states even though they have coverage in the states.. again im sure that they do as the the number of people being treated to the number of doctors treating them is much lower and these doctors are trying to build business. and you know that from experience what color is the sky in your world t my doctor has trying to build a business in san felipe for 30 years.. but i guess you already knew that too.. now thats baja.. i cant speak for mainland mx but you would think that anywhere around a big city would have excellent health care.. you might think that but even here in the us that is not always true. if the demand goes up the quality of care almost always goes down as the staff is simply not able to give as much attention to the individuals and there the demand in many areas is low because many there just cant afford it much like here with the higher levels of care. mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : mac davis

on sat 09 feb 2008 120852 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote tbone wrote you really need to take a ride into the country and see what it is like all over not just in your little american retirement area. and im not talking about just the big cities either. yes tbone you really do need to do that. i have. mexico is not the poor trashy run down country so many americans believe it to be. spend many years traveling all over mexico meeting the locals etc. then get back to us. i agreed with everything but the last line... does he really have to get back to us mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : mac davis

on sat 09 feb 2008 112149 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote roy wrote ken mac moved there not that long ago and seems to really enjoy it. where did he move my folks live in baja mar which is just north of ensenada on baja. i also have my sister in laws family in ciudad obergon and san carlos. ahh... that answered my earlier question miles.. were on the other side of baja on the sea of cortez/gulf of california about 130 miles or so east of ensenada which is on the pacific ocean.... mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : mac davis

on sat 9 feb 2008 140032 -0500 tbone noway@nothere.com wrote ken mac moved there not that long ago and seems to really enjoy it. im sure that he does as the cost of living there is nothing compared to here which pushes him to a much higher standard of living. right.. climate location and getting away from gringos had nothing to do with it.. might be even lower cost of living in siberia.. mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : mac davis

on sun 10 feb 2008 083205 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote mac davis wrote ahh... that answered my earlier question miles.. were on the other side of baja on the sea of cortez/gulf of california about 130 miles or so east of ensenada which is on the pacific ocean.... i live in az and travel to puerto penasco now and then. its a 3 1/2 hour drive from phoenix and directly across the water from san felipe. when i was last in san felipe it reminded me of how puerto penasco was about 20 years ago. today most of puerto penascos beaches are oblitereated with huge resort style hotels. just not the same. weve never been to puerto penasco but have heard a lot about it.. i guess at one time there were several ferry routes and one was from san felipe to puerto penasco... they say that on a really clear night you can see the lights of puerto penasco from here but ive never seen them.. mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : mac davis

on sun 10 feb 2008 082719 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote mac davis wrote baja mar as in town or development baja mar is a large development gated community and golf course about 10 miles north of ensenada. were at el dorado ranch near san felipe... about 120 miles south of calexico/yuma... ive been to san felipe several years ago. we stayed at an rv park i think named el dorado about 8 miles or so north of san felipe. i loved the area deserted beaches were fantastic and the people in town very nice. the rv park was awful with a bit of a walk to the beach and bad sewer smell. well the good is that el dorado rv park was greatly improved and became the premier rv park in baja.. the really bad is that about 2 years ago the closed it and built condos there.. *sigh* the pool cantina and such are still there and are the rec area for our development.. were about 2 miles north of the old rv park and 3 miles west.. 5 miles north of san felipe.. mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : ed medlin

on wed 06 feb 2008 210603 +0930 jmc nogroupsspam@nojodibody.homeus wrote beat me to it. my candidates not going to win anyway. no i wont tell you im on vacation and dont want to get into a political debate. like joe i think until we all get off our fat butts and do something we all lose. we should all vote our conscience and to hell with who wins the primaries. im voting for my candidate no matter who wins in the primaries. thats what write-in votes are for. the one who kisses the corporations butts the best wins anyway. the average citizen loses. bah! jmc 2 changes that i think would help a lot but will never happen make it a popular vote and get rid of the electoral college... the ec worked well when only rich land owners could read but i hope were past that.. dump it and make it a one person-one vote election.. that would give the cities too much power over rural areas which in effect would lose all voice in presidential elections. .

From : tbone

fmb wrote invade mexico dont you have it backwards mac with osama mrs anklepants or mccain all those invaders will become welcome citizens wont they the only one who believed in enforcement first was thompson and hes out. and thank god for that. everyone else is a sell out to the illegals. please explain. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : mac davis

on thu 07 feb 2008 130948 gmt ed medlin ed@edmedlin.com wrote that would give the cities too much power over rural areas which in effect would lose all voice in presidential elections. well im no expert ed but it seems to me that everyones vote should count the same wherever they live.. afaik cities are the deciding voting base now because of population density so im not sure it would be any different with a popular vote.. mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : bob m

roy wrote so bro ya want to be king for a day huh ya have to come up with knights of the round table a court jester sombody to ring the bell im sure rabbit will be on the menu and ya need a queen i can come up with a few candidates for that position. shit ya could start with peterd he wants to be moderator so he strives for a position of authority id bet hed be a wonderful queen for ya. vbg roy hey and we can have the meetings at the white castle. wheres my hossenfeffer! bob .

From : mac davis

on thu 07 feb 2008 111716 -0600 bob m ram1220@vzavenue.net wrote roy wrote so bro ya want to be king for a day huh ya have to come up with knights of the round table a court jester sombody to ring the bell im sure rabbit will be on the menu and ya need a queen i can come up with a few candidates for that position. shit ya could start with peterd he wants to be moderator so he strives for a position of authority id bet hed be a wonderful queen for ya. vbg roy hey and we can have the meetings at the white castle. wheres my hossenfeffer! bob ahhh... but if i were king wed meet here in baja and party at the cantina for 2 bucks a beer and free chips & salsa.. btw most of the beer here is 4.5% mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : mac davis

on sat 9 feb 2008 095853 -0500 napalmheart olsonfamnospam@iserv.net wrote there are jobs in mexico for those that want to work for them without the aid of social hand outs. you really have no clue as to what mexico is like. i travel there often and have family who live and work in mexico. they are doing quite well. miles i know some people that are thinking about wintering in mexico during retirement. do you know about access to quality medical facilities/treatment there thanks ken im not miles but i live in baja california mx.. we pay $325 a month for excellent health insurance.. it even includes chopper medivac if needed... it would be cheaper if i wasnt an old fart.. they go by age.. mine is a little over $200 of that because im 12 years older than my wife.. our local doctor is excellent and the hospitals in mexicali are top notch.. several folks down here prefer the care here to the states even though they have coverage in the states.. now thats baja.. i cant speak for mainland mx but you would think that anywhere around a big city would have excellent health care.. mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : tbone

tbone wrote everyone else is a sell out to the illegals. please explain. theres a reason why neither dem nor rep leaders will combat illegal immigration despite the overwhelming public demand that they do. again miles you didnt answer the question. what exactly do you mean by combat are you talking about primarily securing the borders and stopping the inflow or also attempting to locate all the ones already here and toss them out as well the public wants enforcement first. politicians do not. lol the term enforcement can also mean many different thing to many different people so while i agree with your words me and everyone else that agrees with your words could all be talking about very different things. politicians also have to deal with the fallout that will come from doing this regardless of what is actually done. youve told me why the reps dont but the dems do not as well and it has nothing to do with compassion which illegals do not deserve anyways. who made you god where you can make the claim as to who does and doesnt deserve compassion and unless you are now a hard left democrat how do you know exactly what their motivation is my wife is about as far left a

From : miles

tbone wrote everyone else is a sell out to the illegals. please explain. theres a reason why neither dem nor rep leaders will combat illegal immigration despite the overwhelming public demand that they do. the public wants enforcement first. politicians do not. youve told me why the reps dont but the dems do not as well and it has nothing to do with compassion which illegals do not deserve anyways. .

From : miles

tbone wrote are you talking about primarily securing the borders and stopping the inflow or also attempting to locate all the ones already here and toss them out as well i pretty much did state what i meant. i said enforcement first. we have laws. enforce them. lol the term enforcement can also mean many different thing to many different people so while i agree with your words me and everyone else that agrees with your words could all be talking about very different things. not really. the majority do not want amnesty nor the bs that bush or the dems say is not amnesty it is. politicians also have to deal with the fallout that will come from doing this regardless of what is actually done. yep and thats why the refuse to enforce the laws. they pander to illegals. my wife is about as far left as you are right it thats possible and her only real issue with hunting them down and kicking them out is breaking up families so i would say that compassion is a primary reason the dems dont do it. lol youre just about as far left as they come despite your claims! families are not forced to be broken up. anyone can go to mexico and stay together. making this an excuse to pander to them is exactly why they keep coming. they know people like you will never enforce the law and they have a nice comfy place where people pander to their illegal status. .

From : miles

tbone wrote i have said more than once that i have no problem sending them on their way and properly closing down the borders. great except you keep supporting politicians that want amnesty and blast those that want enforcement first. you know that if it really happens that wealth will wind up getting redistributed from the rich to the middle class and poor because american workers will not do those jobs for the poverty wages that the illegals will do it for. day laborers here make about $15/hour and rising as the illegals have formed a sort of union that is driving their wages rapidly higher each year. hardly poverty wages for entry level no skilled jobs. .

From : miles

napalmheart wrote i would only add that we also protect our southern border the way mexico protects theirs. yep! we should also adopt mexicos immigration laws and employment laws for immigrants. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote are you talking about primarily securing the borders and stopping the inflow or also attempting to locate all the ones already here and toss them out as well i pretty much did state what i meant. i said enforcement first. we have laws. enforce them. you really should be a politician miles as you also never give a straight answer. are you talking about prevention or prevention and exportation and if you are talking exportation how exactly are you going to do it and with what money lol the term enforcement can also mean many different thing to many different people so while i agree with your words me and everyone else that agrees with your words could all be talking about very different things. not really. the majority do not want amnesty nor the bs that bush or the dems say is not amnesty it is. lol how would you know you are far from the majority on most issues. politicians also have to deal with the fallout that will come from doing this regardless of what is actually done. yep and thats why the refuse to enforce the laws. they pander to illegals. no they like keeping their jobs. my wife is about as far left as you are right it thats possible and her only real issue with hunting them down and kicking them out is breaking up families so i would say that compassion is a primary reason the dems dont do it. lol youre just about as far left as they come despite your claims! once again your extreme right bias does the talking as demonstrated by your selection for a presidential candidate. the fact that he did so poorly shows how far out of the majority and to the right of even your party that you are. families are not forced to be broken up. anyone can go to mexico and stay together. if it were so great in mexico why did they come here. making this an excuse to pander to them is exactly why they keep coming. lol what planet did you come from. they keep coming because their standard of living is worse than our homeless and we dont do a good job of stopping them. they know people like you will never enforce the law and they have a nice comfy place where people pander to their illegal status. sorry miles but once again you dont know wtf you are talking about. i have said more than once that i have no problem sending them on their way and properly closing down the borders. its people like you that say one thing and do the complete opposite because you know that if it really happens that wealth will wind up getting redistributed from the rich to the middle class and poor because american workers will not do those jobs for the poverty wages that the illegals will do it for. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote im sure that he does as the cost of living there is nothing compared to here which pushes him to a much higher standard of living. that is true. whats your point money goes a lot further in mexico for both americans and mexicans and anyone else. .

From : miles

tbone wrote i try to stay out of the miles -tbone love fest but the above is a very good point. it seems so until you open your eyes and look at the big picture. lol yep. he agreed with me that you have no clue as to what mexico is like!! your narrow view is not the big picture! .

From : jmc

suddenly without warning tbone exclaimed 2/9/2008 246 pm sorry miles but once again you dont know wtf you are talking about. i have said more than once that i have no problem sending them on their way and properly closing down the borders. its people like you that say one thing and do the complete opposite because you know that if it really happens that wealth will wind up getting redistributed from the rich to the middle class and poor because american workers will not do those jobs for the poverty wages that the illegals will do it for. i suspect this may be the base of the problem. comes down to business controlling our govt again. if we got illegal immigration under control and removed those that are here illegally the businesses that rely on these immigrants would 1have problems finding employees 2 have to pay them a fair wage. they of course dont want to do either but use #1 as an excuse. ive seen that well go out of business if you take the illegals away. wah. shouldnt have gotten yourself in that fix in the first place. and if americans will no longer do those jobs we have only ourselves to blame. when i was young i worked in fast food. for years until i got out of college. and worked as a janitor not to mention other menial low paying jobs. so did all my classmates. now its all immigrants that fill those jobs in parts of northern va you practically have to speak spanish to order fast food because our kids no longer are willing to do such menial jobs. damn what have we well not me ive no kids been teaching these kids anyway i like australias system. if you want to emigrate here you have to prove you have a useful skill that australia needs/wants. if you try to sneak in attempted illegal immigration is by boat and plane here for obvious reasons and you get caught youre out within 24 hours usually on the next plane. even if your paperwork is all right if they suspect for any reason youre here to work rather than be a tourist next plane to where you came from. period. they regularly course businesses that historically hire illegal immigrants too check their passports and take them *right then* and send them on a plane home if theyre illegal. i understand about tired poor huddled masses but think sadly that things are out of control and we really need to do things like the aussies do. jmc .

From : miles

mac davis wrote baja mar as in town or development baja mar is a large development gated community and golf course about 10 miles north of ensenada. were at el dorado ranch near san felipe... about 120 miles south of calexico/yuma... ive been to san felipe several years ago. we stayed at an rv park i think named el dorado about 8 miles or so north of san felipe. i loved the area deserted beaches were fantastic and the people in town very nice. the rv park was awful with a bit of a walk to the beach and bad sewer smell. .

From : miles

mac davis wrote on sat 09 feb 2008 120852 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote tbone wrote you really need to take a ride into the country and see what it is like all over not just in your little american retirement area. and im not talking about just the big cities either. yes tbone you really do need to do that. i have. mexico is not the poor trashy run down country so many americans believe it to be. spend many years traveling all over mexico meeting the locals etc. then get back to us. i agreed with everything but the last line... does he really have to get back to us lol ya didnt think of that! .

From : miles

mac davis wrote ahh... that answered my earlier question miles.. were on the other side of baja on the sea of cortez/gulf of california about 130 miles or so east of ensenada which is on the pacific ocean.... i live in az and travel to puerto penasco now and then. its a 3 1/2 hour drive from phoenix and directly across the water from san felipe. when i was last in san felipe it reminded me of how puerto penasco was about 20 years ago. today most of puerto penascos beaches are oblitereated with huge resort style hotels. just not the same. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote i have said more than once that i have no problem sending them on their way and properly closing down the borders. great except you keep supporting politicians that want amnesty and blast those that want enforcement first. you know that if it really happens that wealth will wind up getting redistributed from the rich to the middle class and poor because american workers will not do those jobs for the poverty wages that the illegals will do it for. day laborers here make about $15/hour and rising as the illegals have formed a sort of union that is driving their wages rapidly higher each year. hardly poverty wages for entry level no skilled jobs. yawn when are you going to get out from behind that entry level crap that you like to hide behind. entry level has nothing to do with it nor does no skill. since you claim to have been in the industry you should know that most of the time this is back breaking work and does require some skill and ability to do it well and $15/ an hour is hardly a stunning wage for the work done and the conditions it is being done in. tell me miles could you support your home for this wage -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote you really need to take a ride into the country and see what it is like all over not just in your little american retirement area. and im not talking about just the big cities either. yes tbone you really do need to do that. i have. mexico is not the poor trashy run down country so many americans believe it to be. spend many years traveling all over mexico meeting the locals etc. then get back to us. sorry miles but reality doesnt match what you say. if it were so great and free health care according to mac then why would they come here or flood southern cal for medical care. why would they be willing to work so hard for so little money im sure that there are plenty of nice places in mexico and i never said that the whole country is a slum or a disaster but the poor there are really poor and are willing to do just about anything to live better including abandoning their country to come here where it is becoming more than obvious that they are not wanted. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote im sure that he does as the cost of living there is nothing compared to here which pushes him to a much higher standard of living. that is true. whats your point money goes a lot further in mexico for both americans and mexicans and anyone else. you are shooting yourself in the foot miles. how exactly does money go farther there if people have money then they tend to spend it and consumption goes up. supply and demand dictates that if demand goes up supply goes down and prices go up. the laws of economics do not support you here. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : napalmheart

tbone wrote im sure that he does as the cost of living there is nothing compared to here which pushes him to a much higher standard of living. that is true. whats your point money goes a lot further in mexico for both americans and mexicans and anyone else. you are shooting yourself in the foot miles. how exactly does money go farther there if people have money then they tend to spend it and consumption goes up. supply and demand dictates that if demand goes up supply goes down and prices go up. the laws of economics do not support you here. it also depends on the elasticity of supply and demand. .

From : noseytbone

nunya wrote not to mention that i have discovered that about 20% of the local bp/amico stations are not actually putting bp branded gas in their tanks. several of the pakistaniranian owners are actually selling the off brand and blended stuff from the hub to make a couple of extra cents. i dont worry too much about that. i make my own fuel. -- ken .

From : miles

tbone wrote you should know that most of the time this is back breaking work and does require some skill and ability to do it well and $15/ an hour is hardly a stunning wage for the work done and the conditions it is being done in. most of the day labors are unskilled. their jobs include pulling weeds raking using a leaf blower etc. $15/hr is darn good for such an entry level job. tell me miles could you support your home for this wage here we go again with your crap that any job should pay for a nice house cars and anything else a person wants. sorry tbone thats a liberal ideology that peoples wages should be based on their needs. i worked for many years staring at $2.95/hr minimum wage at the time. actually about $1/hr as a teen mowing lawns prior to that. should i have been able to buy a house and car during those years hell no. only in a liberal mind. .

From : miles

tbone wrote sorry miles but reality doesnt match what you say. if it were so great and free health care according to mac then why would they come here or flood southern cal for medical care. you have no clue tbone. you have no idea whom comes here and who stays in mexico. mexico and i never said that the whole country is a slum or a disaster but the poor there are really poor and are willing to do just about anything to live better the poor in mexico arent much worse and sometimes better than the poor here. its quite common to see a ramble shack of a home with dirt floor and a sheet for a doorway. outside is parked a brand new truck. different priorities there. .

From : miles

tbone wrote you are shooting yourself in the foot miles. how exactly does money go farther there if people have money then they tend to spend it and consumption goes up. supply and demand dictates that if demand goes up supply goes down and prices go up. the laws of economics do not support you here. tbone why dont you travel to mexico so you fully understand and appreciate the mexican culture and economy. most mexicans do have money. but there is a lack of things to buy. my relatives come up here every 3 months to shop. they go to the local mall where they can buy top notch clothes etc. they leave with armfulls of bags and head back to mexico. youre attempting to argue about a country culture and economy you know absolutely nothing about. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote you should know that most of the time this is back breaking work and does require some skill and ability to do it well and $15/ an hour is hardly a stunning wage for the work done and the conditions it is being done in. most of the day labors are unskilled. their jobs include pulling weeds raking using a leaf blower etc. $15/hr is darn good for such an entry level job. lol i really doubt this miles and if that were the case why would they need to hire illegals. you could get many american workers to do that type of work for that money. many of the people that i know that work at the hd or lowes make less than that. tell me miles could you support your home for this wage here we go again with your crap that any job should pay for a nice house cars and anything else a person wants. who said anything like that miles. there is a big difference between buying a nice house cars and anything that someone wants and being able to have a reasonable place to live small apartment and put food on the table. sorry tbone thats a liberal ideology that peoples wages should be based on their needs. i worked for many years staring at $2.95/hr minimum wage at the time. how is that possible if you worked in your family construction business actually about $1/hr as a teen mowing lawns prior to that. should i have been able to buy a house and car during those years hell no. only in a liberal mind. there is a big difference between a kid making pocket money and an adult trying to earn a living. now if you were dumb enough to work for so little then that is your problem. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote you are shooting yourself in the foot miles. how exactly does money go farther there if people have money then they tend to spend it and consumption goes up. supply and demand dictates that if demand goes up supply goes down and prices go up. the laws of economics do not support you here. tbone why dont you travel to mexico so you fully understand and appreciate the mexican culture and economy. most mexicans do have money. but there is a lack of things to buy. hahahahahahahahahahaha you really are funny miles. what do you think that the reason for that is perhaps because there simply not enough demand for all of these things because people there just dont have the money for them. my relatives come up here every 3 months to shop. they go to the local mall where they can buy top notch clothes etc. they leave with armfulls of bags and head back to mexico. youre attempting to argue about a country culture and economy you know absolutely nothing about. the one that seems to know absolutely nothing is you. what you just said make no economic sense at all. if this were true then why doesnt someone import that stuff down there. if the demand is so high and there is no supply the one supplying it could pretty much name their own price and get it or at least get the same price as here in the states. the reason that it doesnt happen is because many simply dont have the money that you think that they do and the few that do dont create enough of a demand to make it worth the trouble or expense to do it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote its quite common to see a ramble shack of a home with dirt floor and a sheet for a doorway. outside is parked a brand new truck. different priorities there. what are or country are you talking about thats mexico tbone. that is the difference in cultures and very much a reality in mexico to see that. thats how they can pay similar prices for food utilities gas etc. than we do here. they forgo much of a home even though housing is much cheaper there. instead they buy a shiny new truck. very different priorities in their culture. you wont believe it nor understand it until you go there. .

From : miles

tbone wrote hahahahahahahahahahaha you really are funny miles. what do you think that the reason for that is perhaps because there simply not enough demand for all of these things because people there just dont have the money for them. oh really now my sister in law travels to the usa every few months. stops in at walmart and buys small appliances clothes etc. then returns to mexico to sell at the local swap meet at prices 50-100% over cost. everything sells with ease. go to mexico tbone. your attempt to argue about a country you are clueless about is getting to the point of absurdity. the one that seems to know absolutely nothing is you. what you just said make no economic sense at all. if this were true then why doesnt someone import that stuff down there. you keep attempting to apply how things work in the usa to that of mexico which is a vastly different culture and economy. american companies cant easily open up in mexico for sales to mexicans. mexico is to an extent a 3rd world nation. that does not mean the people are mostly poor. its a concept that eludes you. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote i agree with you completely here but you have still not addressed the issue of what to do with the ones already here. yes i did. take away the reasons they are here and they will leave. if they cant work cant get free hand outs etc. then they will leave. but according to you for the most part we have already done that and yet still they come. greedy business owners are still going to hire them even in arizona and their life here is still going to be better than where they came from so most are not just going to leave. wrong. scores of them have already left. well if that is the case then whats the problem with mccains plans. if they are leaving anyway then all that needs to be done is secure the borders and let them leave. some small business owners have complained but most are not. the larger businesses are not joining in the legal appeals process. if it was such a big deal to these greedy companies then they would be funding the lawyers and they are not. lol yea sure. most of them are employed by small businesses pinhead. and the large ones that do hire a few are not going to waste millions of dollars joining a no win legal contest. what would be the point they would lose many times the money that they saved hiring them to begin with not to mention drawing attention to themselves while basically saying to the world that they have been screwing american citizens all along with illegal hiring. and then when these cases fall apart the ins and labor board will be making their first stops to these specific companies. i have to say miles sometimes i really wonder about you. thompson simply was the farthest to the right out of all of them which is of course why you felt he had the best policies but most of america doesnt agree with you. so edwards is out because of his far left policies that most of america doesnt agree with i agree thats one reason. but like thompson he wasnt front and center with his campaign. both were not covered as much in the media. they traveled to far fewer cities campaigning as clinton obama and mccain. why do you think that is miles perhaps because they couldnt raise the money that the other did. and why do you think that is perhaps because their ideas were not really what the general part public wanted to hear. people are tired of extremist like yourself and mccain is far from that. people dont want extremists such as yourself as well. mccain doesnt know who he wants to be. he has flipped flopped all over if you compare his views over the last 7 years to his decades of voting records in the senate. i never said that i was a huge mccain fan but he is not way to the right and being way to the right is a massive negative right now. i do find it funny how the right has redefined intelligence as flip-flopping. again with your greed and extreme right wing bias ya know tbone you keep ranting about my bias and ignore your own far left radical bias. thats because unlike you i am not far anything. sure i do lean to the left but unlike you i have voted for many republicans including regan and bush sr. i also dont blame the right for all of the problems of the world. you otoh blame the dems and clinton for all of the problems of the world so who is the one who is biased. now i know that you will once again attempt to say differently by asking my opinion of our current president. but the simple fact is that he is an idiot and with an approval rating as low as it is im not the only one that thinks so. you once again otoh defend him on most points due to your extreme right bias. ya i know youre a progressive liberal moderate conservative. no just an independent that sees the big picture and as much of an idiot that i see the current president as being he has little to do with the disaster that our ecomony is turning into. we have nobody to blame for that but ourselves. if im so greedy and love greedy corporations then why am i so strongly against importing cheap illegal labor probably because they provide no benefit for your business but tend to hurt your brothers. i can see why you would think that but most of your party would not agree with you and out of the group he really does have the best chance of winning. i agree because mccains been touting a rather moderate campaign. but look at his senate record and youll see hes very different that what you hear on his campaign. really please explain. the only one that could possibly beat him is hillary but the dems will probably screw that up as well and nominate obama. i dont like obama at all but hes better than another clinton. more of that extreme right wing bias. face it miles the real reason that you hate him is because he did everything that the right said would put us into a full blown depression and instead the country went thru a period of prosperity that

From : tbone

tbone wrote sorry miles but reality doesnt match what you say. if it were so great and free health care according to mac then why would they come here or flood southern cal for medical care. you have no clue tbone. you have no idea whom comes here and who stays in mexico. and you have once again completely failed to answer the question. mexico and i never said that the whole country is a slum or a disaster but the poor there are really poor and are willing to do just about anything to live better the poor in mexico arent much worse and sometimes better than the poor here. lol yea sure. its quite common to see a ramble shack of a home with dirt floor and a sheet for a doorway. outside is parked a brand new truck. different priorities there. what are or country are you talking about -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote but according to you for the most part we have already done that and yet still they come. ive never said anything of the sort. contrary to many illegals can easily get free hand outs and are pandered too. i did say that here in az they passed late last year a new law allowing businesses to be fined or shut down if they knowingly hire illegals. the law has not yet been enforced as many businesses were awaiting an appeal. that appeal failed last week. however when the law was passed scores of illegals have left az for either other states or back to mexico. well if that is the case then whats the problem with mccains plans. if they are leaving anyway then all that needs to be done is secure the borders and let them leave. mccain doesnt want to secure the borders. he wants to give the illegals amnesty which allows them to stay work and pretty much keep things the way they have been. we tried the amnesty route in the 80s. howd that go oh ya it gave incentive for millions more to come and led to where we are today. yet politicians seem bent on doing it one more time. lol yea sure. most of them are employed by small businesses pinhead. and the large ones that do hire a few are not going to waste millions of dollars joining a no win legal contest. wrong. most are employed by large scale construction and farming companies. small businesses dont have the jobs they do on a large enough scale to employ 11 million of them. and then when these cases fall apart the ins and labor board will be making their first stops to these specific companies. oh really now there are already laws on the books making it illegal to hire illegals. the ins doesnt do diddly. a miniscule handful of companies have been prosecuted but its a rarity. the illegals are simply bussed to the border and released only to come back the next day. az is a bit different at least in maricopa county. illegals are tried and incarcerated for their illegal immigration. however its the sheriffs dept. that is doing that. they get no help from ins or ice who have publicly stated they would not. why do you think that is miles perhaps because they couldnt raise the money that the other did. and why do you think that is perhaps because their ideas were not really what the general part public wanted to hear. hmm...you seem to say that for those that are far right conservative. what about the far left liberals such as kerry and edwards your story changes when its a far lefty and doesnt hold up. i never said that i was a huge mccain fan but he is not way to the right and being way to the right is a massive negative right now. so is being way to far to the left but youre ok with that and do not equal your rants towards the far left as you do the right. thats because unlike you i am not far anything. lol!!! yes tbone you are far from anything! sure i do lean to the left but unlike you i have voted for many republicans hmm you know whom i have voted for our current gov. is a democrat. our prior 3 were republicans and were horrible. do you know who i voted for i also dont blame the right for all of the problems of the world. youve been blaming the right for pretty much everything wrong since ive been on this ng. you otoh blame the dems and clinton for all of the problems of the world lol no tom thats your liberal bandwagon assumption. i do not blame clinton for anything except his own arrogance. i also do not credit him for much as you do. you once again otoh defend him on most points due to your extreme right bias. no tom thats your biased liberal bandwagon talking there! i dont and have never liked bush jr or bush sr. the difference is i take on particular issues some i disagree with and some i agree with. you on the other hand just hate for the sake of hating. if im so greedy and love greedy corporations then why am i so strongly against importing cheap illegal labor probably because they provide no benefit for your business but tend to hurt your brothers. oh my family is in the construction industry. that industry uses the illegal immigrant workforce considerably. your argument about greedy corporations is based on pure biased hatred rather than anything constructive of meaning. i agree because mccains been touting a rather moderate campaign. but look at his senate record and youll see hes very different that what you hear on his campaign. really please explain. tbone go look at mccains senate voting record. i cant believe how many people will go to the polls without a clue about whom they are voting other than what they hear during the campaign. mccain has never been a moderate until the past 8 years when he started running for the wh. his senate record and ideologies can be best equated with goldwater. was he a moderate too too funny. oh ya then why are our countries prisons

From : miles

lol i really doubt this miles and if that were the case why would they need to hire illegals. you could get many american workers to do that type of work for that money. many of the people that i know that work at the hd or lowes make less than that. because legal workers also must be paid numerous other employer funded expenses. illegals just get the $15 and their employer pays only $15. sorry tbone thats a liberal ideology that peoples wages should be based on their needs. i worked for many years staring at $2.95/hr minimum wage at the time. how is that possible if you worked in your family construction business wtf are you trying to argue i worked several small jobs in younger years at $2.95/hr including construction. whats your point i never demanded that my first jobs should afford me my own place cars and food. only liberals do that. there is a big difference between a kid making pocket money and an adult trying to earn a living. its also a big difference between a young adult starting out learning and one working a career. now if you were dumb enough to work for so little then that is your problem. its called working your way up through hard work and not demanding more than your work is worth. i was paid an unskilled wage for an unskilled job. it was hard work but well worth it. you feel the walmart door greet who sits and waves and says hi should earn enough to have an apartment car food and support their family. i do not. thats not what that job is intended to accomplish. .

From : mac davis

all have autozone batteries been a problem for anyone my neighbor had one explode in his ford pickup last night. fire melted some of the motor radiator hood and wiring gone. right through the firewall to dash and some of the interior. pu is sure to be totaled. no one hurt. bob az .

From : miles

mac davis wrote miles.. i know that you enjoy this but arguing with t-bone is like winning the special olympics... ya i know. he cracks me up!! .

From : miles

beryl flyingterrapin@chillybits.org wrote aarcuda69062 wrote beryl flyingterrapin@chillybits.org wrote carolina watercraft works wrote i agree 100%. see you top-poster your sig cut off the entire thread below your 3-word post. didnt on my reader. yabbut mozillas products you know the ones that follow standards drop everything after they encounter the dash-dash-space. tell it not to do that. .

From : tbone

suddenly without warning roy exclaimed 2/13/2008 935 am here as your brain cell has to do with intelligence - not even the same planet. a damn log cabin what a dick head. a dick head is what probably is in your mouth i mean how stupid have you got to be to just select any feed at random put in the subject line ot and proceed. who in hell do you really think you are wtf do you think you are you must really feel significant. he must be significant as he recieved some answers. you on the other hand are a insignificant pos who is sadly mistaken if you actually believe that you will change things here. now run along its just simple arrogant stupidity and nothing more. yup thats what you have demonstrated. ok roy thats enough. please stop feeding the troll unless youre enjoying this. then flame on!. its obvious thats what this is. and now hes got you all riled up. not riled up at all jodi just playing proctologist. but your right and he is becoming tiresome. yea i was too but now i can ignore with equanimity. if it wasnt so entertaining itd be in my killfile already. jmc roy .

From : mac davis

nothing personal nate but ive never needed one as a civilian.. for your own sake i hope you never realize first hand how wrong i feel you are. the students at va tech that were lined up in a row and shot one after another were unarmed and unable to do anything but stand there and die. watch this video sir. http//www.youtube.com/watchv=soztwqksm shows a woman working at walmart when her estranged husband walks in and starts stabbing her. people just stood around watching the woman being stabbed to death unable to offer any assistance at all.....up until a little old man that carried concealed came up and shot her attacker dead so that she the innocent one could live. i got dozens of similar examples of a concealed carry holder making the difference. -- nathan in montana http//bighorntactical.com http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//hipowertalk.com http//glockcarry.com http//p99sw99.com http//ppstalk.com http//p7talk.com .

From : mac davis

on tue 12 feb 2008 224112 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote wtf are you trying to argue i worked several small jobs in younger years at $2.95/hr including construction. whats your point i never demanded that my first jobs should afford me my own place cars and food. only liberals do that. miles.. i know that you enjoy this but arguing with t-bone is like winning the special olympics... you still look retarded.. mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : tbone

on tue 12 feb 2008 224112 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote wtf are you trying to argue i worked several small jobs in younger years at $2.95/hr including construction. whats your point i never demanded that my first jobs should afford me my own place cars and food. only liberals do that. miles.. i know that you enjoy this but arguing with t-bone is like winning the special olympics... you still look retarded.. did i actually do something to you mac or is being an asshole a new thing for ya a guy makes a observation and you call him a asshole. you wonder why some folks think you suck .

From : roy

who fucked you up mother fucker. you wouldnt say that facing me you cock sucking bitch.. on sun 10 feb 2008 213954 -0600 ma wrote whats the matter mike chrysler didnt pay for your engine repair that was caused by neglect typical. lay the blame on the consumer. i have been obeying 3 months/3000 miles law for both my cars unfortunately both dodge. unfortunately what were you *forced* into purchasing them its just denying my extended warranty repair is what flames me. chrysler taking the dealership side unfairly. yeah everybodys out to get you right what did you do to invalidate the warranty since it is an on going case i will not elaborate not that anyone cares. youre right on that one. nobody here cares. shut the fuck up and go whine somewhere else punk. -- ubuntu -- an african word meaning slackware is too hard for me. i guess you dont want to elaborate then i would also like to point out that if you had the attitude you have now when you were trying to get your problem resolved it would have never happened with chrysler!! you make a comment that you were done wrong but dont want to give out any info as to the problem typical .

From : miles

on wed 13 feb 2008 100034 -0700 nathan w. collier no@way.com wrote nothing personal nate but ive never needed one as a civilian.. for your own sake i hope you never realize first hand how wrong i feel you are. the students at va tech that were lined up in a row and shot one after another were unarmed and unable to do anything but stand there and die. watch this video sir. http//www.youtube.com/watchv=soztwqksm shows a woman working at walmart when her estranged husband walks in and starts stabbing her. people just stood around watching the woman being stabbed to death unable to offer any assistance at all.....up until a little old man that carried concealed came up and shot her attacker dead so that she the innocent one could live. i got dozens of similar examples of a concealed carry holder making the difference. not an option in mexico nate.. mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : mac davis

mac davis wrote thats changing too miles.. you gotta come visit.. we usually go to yuma for the things that we just cant get here but most of our shopping is in san felipe or mexicali.. mexicali has home depot costco wal-mart and a lot of other stores and though not all the products are the same they have good selection and not bad value.. thats true but thats also border towns and regions. its slowly moving south. the stores in mexicali also cater to numerous americans. its far cheaper to operate those stores south of the border and cater to both countries shoppers. ensenada is a city much larger than mexicali i believe about 1 million. it has no such stores. its about 75 miles south of san diego. tijuana has no such stores either and its right on the border. reason is because san diego already has all those stores and scores of mexicans cross in the usa for day shopping trips. they have money to spend!! .

From : miles

are they sure it was the battery that started it all possibly some short in the wiring that caused the battery to cook and fail there is not very many battery manufacturers in the usa. 3-4 manufacturers cover probably 90% of the batteries out there. saying it is an autozone battery does not say much because it id a rebadged exide or gould or who knows. the battery simply is not there. or any residue. many wire bundles are simply bare roasted copper. the throttle body is 90% gone. radiator and ac condenser 50% gone. but the battery area simply stands out in that there is almost nothing left except for a heavily damaged battery tray. the fire even burned through the firewall behind the dash instruments which are all gone. lots of smoke damage inside the cab. the fender liner not sure what material it is is melted over the rf tire. half the hood is gone half the windshield is gone and the other half burned or roasted beyond use. alternator is gone. exhaust manifold is there. az compressor gone. but presumably no fuel/gas fire because we think there would have been a tremendous explosion when all there was was a boom. the gas tank was all but full. no damage to the glove compartment. all doors open and close easily. bob az .

From : mac davismac davis

on wed 13 feb 2008 173344 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote tbone wrote did i actually do something to you mac or is being an asshole a new thing for ya resorting to name calling says it all! well i did mention that he had his head up his ass... then again im really not sure if thats name calling or reporting an observed fact... mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : miles

mac davis wrote youre going to see them in ensenada and especially rosarita... getting to be imo vastly overpriced yuppieville.. rosaritas economy is pretty much american $s. ensenadas is local nationals and from cruise ship tourists. the area between is scores of american 2nd homes especially beach homes that are no longer bargain priced. .

From : mac davis

on thu 14 feb 2008 120412 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote mac davis wrote youre going to see them in ensenada and especially rosarita... getting to be imo vastly overpriced yuppieville.. rosaritas economy is pretty much american $s. ensenadas is local nationals and from cruise ship tourists. the area between is scores of american 2nd homes especially beach homes that are no longer bargain priced. and very expensive condos at least for here.. same at el dorado... where the rv park was theyre selling $500k condos.. mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : tbone

tbone wrote did i actually do something to you mac or is being an asshole a new thing for ya resorting to name calling says it all! lol well since he kinda started it..... -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

lol i really doubt this miles and if that were the case why would they need to hire illegals. you could get many american workers to do that type of work for that money. many of the people that i know that work at the hd or lowes make less than that. because legal workers also must be paid numerous other employer funded expenses. illegals just get the $15 and their employer pays only $15. once again you show that you really dont know wtf you are talking about. how old are you miles 15. they can hire them as 1099 employees where they pay nothing more than the $15 an hour or can pay them cash under the table just like they do with the illegals. sorry tbone thats a liberal ideology that peoples wages should be based on their needs. i worked for many years staring at $2.95/hr minimum wage at the time. how is that possible if you worked in your family construction business wtf are you trying to argue i worked several small jobs in younger years at $2.95/hr including construction. whats your point i never demanded that my first jobs should afford me my own place cars and food. only liberals do that. are you really this ignorant miles or do you just hope that the rest of the world is i am not talking about some kid with a work permit or some 17 year old that is trying to make some money for their first car or going to the prom. i am talking about adults that need work and dont have mommy and daddy to fall back on and not everyone has your talents skills or abilities. i guess that you have redefined liberal to mean a human being with a sole. there is a big difference between a kid making pocket money and an adult trying to earn a living. its also a big difference between a young adult starting out learning and one working a career. once again miles you see only what you want to see. go to some of the big box stores and take a look at the age of many of the people that are working there. many of them are far from young adults. you seem to have no problem putting limits on the pay for the unskilled to the point where they really cant survive. funny how you dont have those same limits on those whos pay makes them rich. now if you were dumb enough to work for so little then that is your problem. its called working your way up through hard work and not demanding more than your work is worth. i was paid an unskilled wage for an unskilled job. it was hard work but well worth it. you feel the walmart door greet who sits and waves and says hi should earn enough to have an apartment car food and support their family. well miles if the illegals all get exported as you claim to want you will see the worth of many of these jobs shoot up considerably because most americans simply cannot afford to work at them for the current salaries. unfortunantly our social programs are so screwed up people do better not working at all then they would be working these jobs for that low pay when working them cuts them off from most of the programs. i do not. thats not what that job is intended to accomplish. short of upper management exactly what jobs a walmart do you think should earn enough to have these basic things -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote they can hire them as 1099 employees where they what you cant hire an illegal under 1099 private contractor status. good grief tbone!! i am talking about adults that need work and dont have mommy and daddy to fall back on and not everyone has your talents skills or abilities. i guess that you have redefined liberal to mean a human being with a sole. sorry tbone. very few people on welfare or minimum wage are there because of some disability that prevents them from higher skills and abilities. its also a big difference between a young adult starting out learning and one working a career. yep but you are saying the adult should be paid more than the kid doing the same job....simply because the adult needs more money to live. salaries should not be based on need. they should be based on ability and value of work done not age. once again miles you see only what you want to see. go to some of the big box stores and take a look at the age of many of the people that are working there. many of them are far from young adults. please explain to me why those older adults should be paid more than the young adults or teens doing the exact same job wage based on a persons needs rather than abilities hmm...there are some countries that do run under that mentality. go move there and tell me how you like it. now if you were dumb enough to work for so little then that is your problem. hmm youre the one thats telling me people who work for so little should be paid more...wait only if they are old enough and need more as a result!! well miles if the illegals all get exported as you claim to want you will see the worth of many of these jobs shoot up considerably because most americans simply cannot afford to work at them for the current salaries. i have no problem with salaries for american workers shooting up as a result of illegals being removed. no problem at all. apparently you do. unfortunantly our social programs are so screwed up people do better not working at all then they would be working these jobs for that low pay when working them cuts them off from most of the programs. yep liberals have created a system that keeps people oppressed and on welfare. they have no desire to work if they can just get handouts and be dependent on gov. to take care of them. you seem to blame employers rather than the social programs that do nothing towards getting people off welfare. short of upper management exactly what jobs a walmart do you think should earn enough to have these basic things doesnt need to be upper management. lower and min supervisor positions of which there are many. skilled sales clerks that know the products well such as in sporting goods hardware etc. head cashiers who are fast are a valuable asset to any such merchant and are generally paid well for their work. door greeters should not earn a living wage. thats not what that job is for. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote but according to you for the most part we have already done that and yet still they come. ive never said anything of the sort. contrary to many illegals can easily get free hand outs and are pandered too. by who miles you just said that the majority of citizens in this country do not want them here. i did say that here in az they passed late last year a new law allowing businesses to be fined or shut down if they knowingly hire illegals. the law has not yet been enforced as many businesses were awaiting an appeal. that appeal failed last week. however when the law was passed scores of illegals have left az for either other states or back to mexico. or so it seems. you just said that they are organizing and making $15 and hour as day laborers. many of these companies will continue to hire them. they will just make sure they have and take a slight look a the illegal ids and accept them as valid. it will then be up to the understaffed state agencies to prove that they knew they were fake and they simply dont have either the staff or resources to do it effectively and few would be willing to close down some of these companies and put many citizens of arizona out of work. well if that is the case then whats the problem with mccains plans. if they are leaving anyway then all that needs to be done is secure the borders and let them leave. mccain doesnt want to secure the borders. he wants to give the illegals amnesty which allows them to stay work and pretty much keep things the way they have been. we tried the amnesty route in the 80s. howd that go oh ya it gave incentive for millions more to come and led to where we are today. yet politicians seem bent on doing it one more time. because they are trying to avoid the recession that will come if it is actually done. like it or not miles due to people like you our economy has come to depend on them. lol yea sure. most of them are employed by small businesses pinhead. and the large ones that do hire a few are not going to waste millions of dollars joining a no win legal contest. wrong. most are employed by large scale construction and farming companies. small businesses dont have the jobs they do on a large enough scale to employ 11 million of them. hahahahahahaha you really do make me laugh miles. do you really think that any large company could hire them in mass and be able to hide that large construction companies hire subcontractors to do their work and most of them are small businesses and are the ones that hire many of these illegals. as for the farming companies the really big ones are so mechanized they dont need to hire illegals and when they do need short term extra people they just hire 1099 employees and get may illegals because the pay is so low maost americans wont or cant do it. and then when these cases fall apart the ins and labor board will be making their first stops to these specific companies. oh really now there are already laws on the books making it illegal to hire illegals. the ins doesnt do diddly. a miniscule handful of companies have been prosecuted but its a rarity. the illegals are simply bussed to the border and released only to come back the next day. perhaps because these agencies are understaffed and under funded. the right likes to call it small gubberment but the rest of us call it a load of crap. why do you think that is miles perhaps because they couldnt raise the money that the other did. and why do you think that is perhaps because their ideas were not really what the general part public wanted to hear. hmm...you seem to say that for those that are far right conservative. what about the far left liberals such as kerry and edwards your story changes when its a far lefty and doesnt hold up. what in the hell are you talking about the reason edwards didnt do well is that his campaign didnt fit his lifestyle and he was too far to the left. as for when kerry and edwards ran they were running against an idiot so even their far left viewpoint was still a possible alternative compared to what we already had. i never said that i was a huge mccain fan but he is not way to the right and being way to the right is a massive negative right now. so is being way to far to the left but youre ok with that and do not equal your rants towards the far left as you do the right. because during the clinton years and even with his tax increases the economy was never better. what republican can make that claim the only really far left president that i can recall was carter and while he is a great man with what he does now as a president he sucked. thats because unlike you i am not far anything. lol!!! yes tbone you are far from anything! sure i do lean to the left but unlike you i have voted for many republicans hmm you know whom i have voted for our current gov. is a democ

From : tbone

tbone wrote again miles if the demand is so high then why dont some mexicans open up some stors and import this stuff. you simply have no comprehension of the infrastructure and culture in mexico. its vastly different. its not the usa. monopolies are allowed. government often takes over anything thats successful. but feel free to keep arguing about a culture economy and country that is so vastly different than the usa that you know zilch about! the more you say the less you seem to know about it yourself. who said anything about american companies doing anything. if the mexicans are as well off as you say then what is stopping them from importing this stuff and setting up stores. according to mac hd has set up a few stores so what is stopping them from setting up more free trade is just that. who said anything about american companies open up in mexica and thanks to nafta it is much easier now than it used to be. no tbone. nafta does not have anything to do with american companies owning a business in mexico to sell in mexico. what does the t in nafta stand for tbone it stands for trade miles and that trade and money it creates opens many doors. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not c

From : tbone

tbone wrote its quite common to see a ramble shack of a home with dirt floor and a sheet for a doorway. outside is parked a brand new truck. different priorities there. what are or country are you talking about thats mexico tbone. fine the reason that i asked is that i see the same damn ting here in the us. that is the difference in cultures and very much a reality in mexico to see that. very much a reality here as well so what exactly is the difference thats how they can pay similar prices for food utilities gas etc. than we do here. they pay it because that is what it costs and they have no choice. food staples do not have a huge mark-up. many of the illegals come here because they simply cant afford to stay there so once again thanks for backing up my point. they forgo much of a home even though housing is much cheaper there. they forgo it miles because they cant afford it and food which is why housing is so much cheaper there. instead they buy a shiny new truck. very different priorities in their culture. their priorities are not all that much different. they buy those trucks because if required they can live in them and if they have to leave to go somewhere else to survive they can use them to get there and hopefully use them to make a living. you wont believe it nor understand it until you go there. i see the same things happening here miles. perhaps you should pull your head out of your butt and look around here as well. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

on wed 13 feb 2008 124848 -0500 tbone noway@nothere.com wrote on tue 12 feb 2008 224112 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote wtf are you trying to argue i worked several small jobs in younger years at $2.95/hr including construction. whats your point i never demanded that my first jobs should afford me my own place cars and food. only liberals do that. miles.. i know that you enjoy this but arguing with t-bone is like winning the special olympics... you still look retarded.. did i actually do something to you mac or is being an asshole a new thing for ya not one specific thing t.. just sort of fed up with you thinking you everything and finding a way to argue about anything.. i dont claim to know everything but some things are obvious. btw it takes two to argue and i didnt start this one. funny that you didnt see that. i wonder why i see these threads that have like 20 posts of alternating you and miles and wonder what you 2 get out of the bickering.. sometimes i just tire of hearing his bullshit and want to see if he can back it up. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote by who miles you just said that the majority of citizens in this country do not want them here. they dont but the liberal politicians make it possible for them to circumvent the system and easily get most any handouts the gov. has to offer. dont tell me about some law that says they cant. illegals can and do get food stamps healthcare education etc. or so it seems. you just said that they are organizing and making $15 and hour as day laborers. day laborers yes not the full time workers at local businesses. that market has dried up and many have fled the state. many of these companies will continue to hire them. they will just make sure they have and take a slight look a the illegal ids and accept them as valid. wrong! they must sign up and use the govs. immigration efile system. why do you continue to argue about a point you know nothing about it will then be up to the understaffed state agencies to prove that they knew they were fake yep such as if they had illegals and did not verify their identity and ss status on the govs database. well if that is the case then whats the problem with mccains plans. if they are leaving anyway then all that needs to be done is secure the borders and let them leave. he doesnt want them to leave. he wants to give them legal status and put them in front of those waiting in line legally. because they are trying to avoid the recession that will come if it is actually done. oh bull. importing cheap labor is economically unsound. it helps only in the short term. and did you vote for him and how far to the left is he really yes i voted for her and yes she is far left. her desire to continually raise taxes is typical liberal at its worst. luckily theres enough moderate and conservatives to shut her down on such issues. i voted for her because she does want to stop the flow of illegals and is the one who signed the latest rounds of laws to do so. i also voted for her because although shes against the iraq war she has done considerably to help our troops rather than work against them. she traveled to iraq and met local families of fallen soldiers as well as active enlisties. i have a lot of respect for her even though i do not agree with all of her views. her republican predecessors 3 of them were worthless scum. i also dont blame the right for all of the problems of the world. youve been blaming the right for pretty much everything wrong since ive been on this ng. perhaps because they have been the ones in power for your entire time in this ng. the dems have controlled congress since jan. you have done little to ease up on your bashing of reps and start to bash dems in congress. you will give me your spun reason for doing so. exactly which either forces your family to either illegally hire them or lose money because of them. thanks for backing up my point. company is doing just fine all with legal american workers. no problem competing with others who do not. look up californians justice dept. report from 2006. 20% of those incarcerated were illegal immigrants. what % of californias population are illegal immigrants 20% which would be about right so what is your point um i asked a question tbone. 20% of their prisons are filled with illegal immigrants. californias population is not anywheres close to 20% illegals. so i guess that in mexico the poor all drive luxury cars and live in 5 beadroom condos lol! they have nice homes albiet smaller than in the usa. they have cars but usually a few years old rather than new. they are not dirt poor not even close. and they have but since our goverment is of by and for big business they dont enforce them and now our economy currently depends on them. big business is why the democrats want even more open borders than the reps our economy does not depend on them. that is a liberal myth without basis. they tried the illegal walkout last year. millions of such workers did not show up to their jobs. guess what most places stayed open anyways. some put up wanted signs for legal workers. guess what they hired legal workers. it did not have any impact despite the threats of the illegals that wed see just how important they were. they are only in the short term. long term they pose nothing for our economy. oh please miles just like here $$$$$ has its own ways of changing things and like you said money goes much further over there. americans cant legally hold jobs in mexico. there is no green card for americans. they simply cant except in a few extreme cases or those that reside in mexico legally full time for over 5 years. then there are some types of jobs that open up to americans. its very difficult for an american to get a job in mexico. the usa should adopt the same policies. oh you mean like minimum wage safety issues working conditions maximum hours

From : tbone

tbone wrote they can hire them as 1099 employees where they what you cant hire an illegal under 1099 private contractor status. good grief tbone!! im not talking about illegal workers moron im talking about american workers. they can hire them as 1099s and pay the same as paying an illegal $15 an hour and get the tax breaks as well. actually they can hire illegals that way and simply claim that they didnt know. i am talking about adults that need work and dont have mommy and daddy to fall back on and not everyone has your talents skills or abilities. i guess that you have redefined liberal to mean a human being with a sole. sorry tbone. very few people on welfare or minimum wage are there because of some disability that prevents them from higher skills and abilities. once again miles you really dont have a fucking clue. perhaps you are not as bright as you think that you are. the facts are that there simply not enough of these jobs for everyone that needs them or many of these people would not be working there. its also a big difference between a young adult starting out learning and one working a career. yep but you are saying the adult should be paid more than the kid doing the same job....simply because the adult needs more money to live. no they should be paid more because most of them are more responsible and tend to work much harder. salaries should not be based on need. they should be based on ability and value of work done not age. once again miles you see only what you want to see. go to some of the big box stores and take a look at the age of many of the people that are working there. many of them are far from young adults. please explain to me why those older adults should be paid more than the young adults or teens doing the exact same job because as you said miles many of these adults are more experienced know more and are more responsible than the teens that work there. they also tend to be able to sell more as many customers have the perception that they know what they are talking about and trust their suggestions. wage based on a persons needs rather than abilities not what i said just your lame justifications to further justify your greed or prove your ignorance. now if you were dumb enough to work for so little then that is your problem. hmm youre the one thats telling me people who work for so little should be paid more...wait only if they are old enough and need more as a result!! again thats not what i said despite your desperate spin. well miles if the illegals all get exported as you claim to want you will see the worth of many of these jobs shoot up considerably because most americans simply cannot afford to work at them for the current salaries. i have no problem with salaries for american workers shooting up as a result of illegals being removed. no problem at all. apparently you do. i dont at all but you do especially when you and others like you may have to cut your salaries to pay for it. unfortunantly our social programs are so screwed up people do better not working at all then they would be working these jobs for that low pay when working them cuts them off from most of the programs. yep liberals have created a system that keeps people oppressed and on welfare. sorry miles but that is a bi-partisan issue. neither side wants to fix it and just wants the easy fix. the left just wants to throw more money at it and the right just wants to end them. neither way works. the fact is that fixing it will cost money and that is something that the right simply will not allow. they have no desire to work if they can just get handouts and be dependent on gov. to take care of them. once again you show just how ignorant you really are. desire has little to do with it. if they need to feed their children or even themselves and working one of these low paying jobs will prevent them from doing that why would they do it you seem to blame employers rather than the social programs that do nothing towards getting people off welfare. if the employer paid a living wage for a hard days work there would be much less need for people to be on these programs. short of upper management exactly what jobs a walmart do you think should earn enough to have these basic things doesnt need to be upper management. lower and min supervisor positions of which there are many. skilled sales clerks that know the products well such as in sporting goods hardware etc. head cashiers who are fast are a valuable asset to any such merchant and are generally paid well for their work. while i fully agree with you that simply doesnt happen. most of the people that you have mentioned make around $14 and hour and less and have to use some of that to pay for their health insurance. could you live on that door greeters should not earn a living wage. thats

From : miles

tbone wrote free trade is just that. free trade is just that. importing and exporting products. that has nothing to do with opening up a business in mexico. an american cant easily open a business in mexico. generally american based companies in mexico are done so through a mexican owned and operated franchise. it stands for trade miles and that trade and money it creates opens many doors. trade. it has nothing to do with ability of an american company to open up a store in mexico. they cant. they can sell a franchise license to a mexican national and that mexican can open up a store. nafta did not do a thing to alter that policy. it is for trade not business operation. .

From : miles

tbone wrote they forgo much of a home even though housing is much cheaper there. no tbone. housing is cheap in mexico and cars are more expensive than here. yet they will gladly buy a brand new top end 4x4 truck before they will buy or even rent a decent place to live. they could easily get a nice house and forgo the expensive truck and get a used vehicle but they do not. your theory is wrong. its a culture difference on priorities and not a financial decision. their priorities are not all that much different. they buy those trucks because if required they can live in them and if they have to leave to go somewhere else to survive they can use them to get there and hopefully use them to make a living. oh please. they have a truck that seats 4 and have 9 kids. different culture different priorities than here in the usa tbone. go there and see for yourself instead of making a fool of yourself arguing about something you have never even witnessed yourself. .

From : miles

tbone wrote because as you said miles many of these adults are more experienced know more and are more responsible than the teens that work there. so what if the job does not require those extra skills then why should a company pay for them anyways if they can hire a teen who does the job to their satisfaction then why should they pay an adult doing the same job more i have no problem with salaries for american workers shooting up as a result of illegals being removed. no problem at all. apparently you do. i dont at all but you do especially when you and others like you may have to cut your salaries to pay for it. sigh. i just told you i have no problem with higher wages for legal american workers. its a cost thats well worth paying. cheap imported labor costs even more to our economy in the long run. while i fully agree with you that simply doesnt happen. most of the people that you have mentioned make around $14 and hour and less and have to use some of that to pay for their health insurance. could you live on that i do not know about walmart salaries and dont defend them if their wages are low. head cashiers at local grocers earn $20+ here if they are skilled and fast and know their stuff. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote by who miles you just said that the majority of citizens in this country do not want them here. they dont but the liberal politicians make it possible for them to circumvent the system and easily get most any handouts the gov. has to offer. dont tell me about some law that says they cant. illegals can and do get food stamps healthcare education etc. but if the economy over there is so great and the culture of the people is so against luxury as you claim why would they come here according to you and mac high quality health care is free over there and if the economy is booming as you say they could do much better where they are. or so it seems. you just said that they are organizing and making $15 and hour as day laborers. day laborers yes not the full time workers at local businesses. that market has dried up and many have fled the state. i really doubt that. many of these companies will continue to hire them. they will just make sure they have and take a slight look a the illegal ids and accept them as valid. wrong! they must sign up and use the govs. immigration efile system. why do you continue to argue about a point you know nothing about false ids are easy to come by and not always so easy to discover. it will then be up to the understaffed state agencies to prove that they knew they were fake yep such as if they had illegals and did not verify their identity and ss status on the govs database. if you think that system is fool proof then you are the fool. then another problem is how are they going to know illegals are working there to begin with. well if that is the case then whats the problem with mccains plans. if they are leaving anyway then all that needs to be done is secure the borders and let them leave. he doesnt want them to leave. he wants to give them legal status and put them in front of those waiting in line legally. because doing that will not put us into a recession that just booting them all out probably will do. because they are trying to avoid the recession that will come if it is actually done. oh bull. importing cheap labor is economically unsound. it helps only in the short term. which is exactly why our economy is in the piss poor shape that it is in now and booting them all out will in the short term make it worse. and did you vote for him and how far to the left is he really yes i voted for her and yes she is far left. her desire to continually raise taxes is typical liberal at its worst. luckily theres enough moderate and conservatives to shut her down on such issues. i voted for her because she does want to stop the flow of illegals and is the one who signed the latest rounds of laws to do so. i also voted for her because although shes against the iraq war she has done considerably to help our troops rather than work against them. she traveled to iraq and met local families of fallen soldiers as well as active enlisties. i have a lot of respect for her even though i do not agree with all of her views. her republican predecessors 3 of them were worthless scum. i noticed that you deleted the question about presidents. i guess that answers that. i also dont blame the right for all of the problems of the world. youve been blaming the right for pretty much everything wrong since ive been on this ng. perhaps because they have been the ones in power for your entire time in this ng. the dems have controlled congress since jan. you have done little to ease up on your bashing of reps and start to bash dems in congress. you will give me your spun reason for doing so. there is no spin about it. the reps were in control for over 12 years and had a rep president for 6 of them and during that time accomplished very little especially with the rep president. the dems have only had control for a little over a year and have to deal with an idiot for a president and do not have enough of a majority to over ride a veto. when the dems actually pass legislation and it screws up something then i wlll blame them for those problems. what they need to do is act more like the reps and blame the president for shutting down the government and if he continues to be an ass do just that. exactly which either forces your family to either illegally hire them or lose money because of them. thanks for backing up my point. company is doing just fine all with legal american workers. no problem competing with others who do not. with the low wages that you believe people should make i can believe that but it is hard to keep good workers when you pay them shit and that probably causes your family some problems. look up californians justice dept. report from 2006. 20% of those incarcerated were illegal immigrants. what % of californias population are illegal immigrants 20% which would be about right so what is your point um

From : tbone

tbone wrote free trade is just that. free trade is just that. importing and exporting products. that has nothing to do with opening up a business in mexico. an american cant easily open a business in mexico. generally american based companies in mexico are done so through a mexican owned and operated franchise. yes miles bought paid for and ran by the american company. the point miles is that because of this free trade american goods can easily be shipped down to mexico to be sold by mexican owned companies and if the mass population could afford them thats exactly what would happen. it stands for trade miles and that trade and money it creates opens many doors. trade. it has nothing to do with ability of an american company to open up a store in mexico. they cant. they can sell a franchise license to a mexican national and that mexican can open up a store. thank you for once again making my point for me. if the people there have so much money then that would already be happening and your sister in law would not be going to the states to get this merchandise to sell to the gringos at the market. the reason that she does is that there simply isnt a market for it of any large scale. nafta did not do a thing to alter that policy. it is for trade not business operation. lol nafta made it easy and inexpensive to move american goods to mexico regardless of who actually sells it. the reason that is isnt happening is that the people there simply cant afford it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote but if the economy over there is so great and the culture of the people is so against luxury as you claim why would they come here according to you and mac high quality health care is free over there and if the economy is booming as you say they could do much better where they are. sigh. you dont comprehend what part of the mexican society is coming to the usa. it is not a mix of the general population. not even close. i really doubt that. you can doubt anything you want but the facts show otherwise. businesses have been signing up with the e-verify system. look it up if you still doubt it. wrong! they must sign up and use the govs. immigration efile system. why do you continue to argue about a point you know nothing about false ids are easy to come by and not always so easy to discover. false ids are not going to be in the e-verify system. you need to read up on the system and what it does before arguing about something you know zilch about. if you think that system is fool proof then you are the fool. every system has its faults. but the new threat of a business being shut down greatly increases the cost for a business to continue to hire illegals. you can rant all you want. illegals in az are leaving the state. its a law other states should follow and enforce. because doing that will not put us into a recession that just booting them all out probably will do. booting them will do no such thing. dang political fear tactics you seem to whine about constantly yet you buy into them. i noticed that you deleted the question about presidents. i guess that answers that. which dem president should i have voted for i did not vote for clinton and will not vote for hillary if shes nominated. who else should have gotten my vote carter or which candidates kerry gore both are worse even worse than bush. i told you awhile ago id vote dem if they put someone up thats worth a damn. look at this years selection. clinton or obama i dont care for mccain at all either so neither party has a candidate worth my vote. the dems have only had control for a little over a year and tell me all about the great things pelosi and company spewed about that she and her fellow dems even tried to accomplish in the past year sorry tbone they threw their campaign rhetoric in the trash once elected. go ahead tell me all about the wonderful changes they have put forward passed or failed. actually pass legislation and it screws up something then i wlll blame them for those problems. you will never do any such thing. you defend dems for anything they do as long as its against what reps want. with the low wages that you believe people should make you know what my company or my family pays for wages try well above the market average as well as higher benifits vacation time etc. doing so keeps the better employees here rather than having them go to the competition. but go ahead and rant and whine about what you do not know. youre good at it. really thats not what mac said and come to think of it neither did you. ramshackle shacks that dont even have doors but might have ac doesnt seem like nice by my definition. thats not what the average mexican lives in and i nor mac said otherwise. i used that example to make a point about differing priorities in mexico. in the usa people tend to get a house or apartment before a new car. not so in mexico and its not because of your lack of knowledge excuse about what they can afford. most is not all miles and the purpose was not to shut them down but to prove their worth.. and the walkout did not prove their worth at all. it caused little to no stoppage noticeable to the public. didnt even put a dimple in anyones life. it proved that people like you who buy into the myth were wrong. but go ahead and dispute what took place. some did and some didnt. i bet that if you go back to most of these companies the same number or possibly more illegals are working there now. well if so then they speak english more fluently for some reason. lol sorry miles but you have no way of backing up this bullshit claim. many businesses would never admit that it did and if you were correct they wouldnt have hired them back. the intent was to show the general public how important they were to society. they claimed it would cause a great inconvenience to the public with a stoppage of the flow of goods and services for a day. it didnt do didly. nothing nada zip zilch. it simply did not have the huge effect the organizers said it would. open your eyes miles and take a look around. you almost have to speak spanish to order most fast food or to talk to the workers building houses. most of those workers are legal. but youll probably dispute that. that is probably because most jobs in mexico pay to little for americans to want them huh if the wage

From : tbone

tbone wrote but if the economy over there is so great and the culture of the people is so against luxury as you claim why would they come here according to you and mac high quality health care is free over there and if the economy is booming as you say they could do much better where they are. sigh. you dont comprehend what part of the mexican society is coming to the usa. it is not a mix of the general population. not even close. and you know this how oh thats right you dont. your own facts work against you here miles. if all that were coming across were the scum your governors changes would have no effect as none of them would want to work anyway. your claim that her changes are having a dramatic effect shows just the opposit. i really doubt that. you can doubt anything you want but the facts show otherwise. businesses have been signing up with the e-verify system. look it up if you still doubt it. im sure that they have as they probably have no choice but that doesnt mean that they will report everything and i doubt that they have to report 1099s. wrong! they must sign up and use the govs. immigration efile system. why do you continue to argue about a point you know nothing about false ids are easy to come by and not always so easy to discover. false ids are not going to be in the e-verify system. you need to read up on the system and what it does before arguing about something you know zilch about. sorry miles but i have been in this field for a long time and these systems are usually worthless unless $$$$$ is put into them and they are strictly maintained. the problem here is that the data going in is usually complete crap due to excessive cost cutting and poor worker moral and as they say gigo. if you think that system is fool proof then you are the fool. every system has its faults. but the new threat of a business being shut down greatly increases the cost for a business to continue to hire illegals. you can rant all you want. illegals in az are leaving the state. its a law other states should follow and enforce. actually at best the good workers are leaving but the scum will remain as this doesnt affect them. as for shutting down a business i doubt that any large business will have to worry about that. because doing that will not put us into a recession that just booting them all out probably will do. booting them will do no such thing. dang political fear tactics you seem to whine about constantly yet you buy into them. sorry miles but the right like yourself is the master of fear tactics. booting them out will cause exactly what i said. the market runs much more on fear than facts and the fear that profits of many companies will fall due to increases in costs will do just that. i noticed that you deleted the question about presidents. i guess that answers that. which dem president should i have voted for clinton at least for the second term. hell even kerry and edwards with the shit job your man did in his first term qnd continues to do now. i did not vote for clinton and will not vote for hillary if shes nominated. of course not your hatred and fear of the clinton name would never allow you to do that. who else should have gotten my vote carter or which candidates kerry gore both are worse even worse than bush. yet another statement that you have no possible way to back up. i told you awhile ago id vote dem if they put someone up thats worth a damn. iow thompson claiming to be a democrat lol! look at this years selection. clinton or obama i dont care for mccain at all either so neither party has a candidate worth my vote. of course not miles none of them are extreme right. i actually dont have much of a problem with any of them. the dems have only had control for a little over a year and tell me all about the great things pelosi and company spewed about that she and her fellow dems even tried to accomplish in the past year sorry tbone they threw their campaign rhetoric in the trash once elected. go ahead tell me all about the wonderful changes they have put forward passed or failed. campaign rhetoric is just that and is ment to be ignored. i find it funny that people like you complain that they didnt accomplish major changes in a year when they only have a slim majority and a president on the other side who could give a rats ass about anything but what he wants and at the same time make no complaints about the the ones who had both the majority and a president on their party for years and still accomplished nothing of value. actually pass legislation and it screws up something then i wlll blame them for those problems. you will never do any such thing. you defend dems for anything they do as long as its against what reps want. once again you let your extreme right bias cloud your senses. with the low wage

From : tbone

tbone wrote they forgo much of a home even though housing is much cheaper there. no tbone. housing is cheap in mexico and cars are more expensive than here. what exactly are you replying to. both statemements above are yours lol! yet they will gladly buy a brand new top end 4x4 truck before they will buy or even rent a decent place to live. i am not arguing with you on that point as i see the same thing here in the us. what counts is the reason for it and you have yet to answer that one and cultural differences is not the answer as there are reasons for that as well. they could easily get a nice house and forgo the expensive truck and get a used vehicle but they do not. your theory is wrong. its a culture difference on priorities and not a financial decision. you can hide behind the cultural bs all that you want. these cultural differences happen for a reason miles. their priorities are not all that much different. they buy those trucks because if required they can live in them and if they have to leave to go somewhere else to survive they can use them to get there and hopefully use them to make a living. oh please. they have a truck that seats 4 and have 9 kids. different culture different priorities than here in the usa tbone. lol do you mean like feeding their children. how do you feed a family of 11 on $20 a day if food costs the same there as it does here go there and see for yourself instead of making a fool of yourself arguing about something you have never even witnessed yourself. seeing something and understanding the reason for it are two very different things miles. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote sorry miles but i have been in this field for a long time whoopy friggn doo!! the new laws in az and the e-verify system is totally different than anything you have ever used. why do you keep on arguing about a country laws and policies you know zilch about the problem here is that the data going in is usually complete crap due to excessive cost cutting oh ya ok tbone ill give you the benifit of the doubt. please tell me exactly how much has been spent by az and the us gov. on the e-verify system and what expenses were cut. clinton at least for the second term. lol why he had nothing to do with the economy both the rise nor the fall during his last year. his foreign policies with n. korea and china were horrible. he was a sell out. hell even kerry and edwards with the shit job your man did in his first term qnd continues to do now. kerry and edwards would have been the most far left liberals ever in office. you already told me that too far left is a bad thing. back up your words tbone and bash the far left as well since you say youre not far left biased. of course not your hatred and fear of the clinton name would never allow you to do that. no hillary isnt qualified to run for anything. please list her major accomplishments in the past 7 years in the senate. please list the great things shes done for the country and for ny. of course not miles none of them are extreme right. i actually dont have much of a problem with any of them. so tell me who you will vote for hillary obama you think either is moderate lol. lol this goes against everything that you normally say. why would they pay you so little and everyone else way above market value. what on earth are you talking about now you know how much i make geez youll argue anything. actually mac did and so did you. um no tbone. nobody said the average mexican lives in a ramshackle of a home. why would they choose to be homeless sorry miles but you are full of it. theyre not homeless. they often would rather have a nice shiny car than a nice shiny home. different cultural priorities that i realize do not make sense to you because you cant comprehend something vastly different than here in the usa. but youll certainly argue about it anyways. lol not really. it caused a lot of hardship to those business owners it did no such thing. that day of illegal walkout had no effect on any part of society. it was a day that went unnoticiable. totally opposite of what the planners said would happen. it had zilch of an effect! disagree please by all means tell me what businesses had a hardship. restaurants farms construction etc. pretty much ran as normal. why should i make that determination miles you refuse to do so and actually said there should be no limit. right. there should be no limit to how much a company can pay someone. you want to punish people as they earn more with zero limits to how much to punish them. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote yes miles bought paid for and ran by the american company. oh ya read up on carlos slim. he is one of the major american franchise owners. the american companies dont get the lions share of profit. he does. lol you really dont have a clue. what those mexican franchises make is a drop in the bucket compared to what these american companies save in production costs which turns into pure profits here in the us and anywhere else they sell the finished products. and by what you said i see that the free enterprise system is alive and well in mexico as well. carlos slim keeps the money and his workers get the shaft. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote sorry miles but i have been in this field for a long time whoopy friggn doo!! the new laws in az and the e-verify system is totally different than anything you have ever used. why do you keep on arguing about a country laws and policies you know zilch about because quite frankly miles you seem to know even less than you accuse me of knowing. the problem here is that the data going in is usually complete crap due to excessive cost cutting oh ya ok tbone ill give you the benifit of the doubt. please tell me exactly how much has been spent by az and the us gov. on the e-verify system and what expenses were cut. i dont know and really dont care. the rights absolute need for cost cutting at any cost and the general crap moral make this a given. and no matter how good the database may start out being it requires time and money to keep it that way and enough people to make sure that these companies are sending all of the information. please show your proof that all of these things are happening and will continue to do so. clinton at least for the second term. lol why he had nothing to do with the economy both the rise nor the fall during his last year. his foreign policies with n. korea and china were horrible. he was a sell out. i find it funny how the left seems to have no effect on the economy but the right gets accredited for all of the positives. sorry to burst your bubble miles but clinton had a lot to do with the positive nature of the economy. much of our economy is based on emotion as evident by the stock market every day and clinton made people believe all was right with the world and people both spent and made money. it is a very different world now and changed after the first presidential debate when gore screwed the pooch and the world realised that regardless of the winner it would not be 8 more years of the same. you can call him a sellout but that again shows your complete ignorance. what exactly did you expect him to do if you think that our loses over this idiotic war with iraq are bad imagine how they would be attempting to fight n. korea or china. our losses would be in the 10s of thousands with a real possibility of loss the draft would be back and much like this war would accomplish nothing for the huge cost. hell even kerry and edwards with the shit job your man did in his first term qnd continues to do now. kerry and edwards would have been the most far left liberals ever in office. you already told me that too far left is a bad thing. back up your words tbone and bash the far left as well since you say youre not far left biased. if they were running against a new or intelligent republican then i would agree but that was not the case. they were running against someone who more than proved himself to be horrible and depended on fear tactics and right wing loyalty to get re-elected. also at that time the congress was still under control of the right so no matter how left that they were they still would be regulated as to what they could do. of course not your hatred and fear of the clinton name would never allow you to do that. no hillary isnt qualified to run for anything. please list her major accomplishments in the past 7 years in the senate. please list the great things shes done for the country and for ny. please list any of bushs accomplishments. of course not miles none of them are extreme right. i actually dont have much of a problem with any of them. so tell me who you will vote for hillary obama you think either is moderate lol. actually obama is a little more moderate than clinton and they both have their good and bad points. the same can be said for mccain and i noticed that you didnt include him. why is that lol this goes against everything that you normally say. why would they pay you so little and everyone else way above market value. what on earth are you talking about now you know how much i make geez youll argue anything. i am going by what you said. you made the claim that your family pays skilled workers way above the market average and then claimed that you worked for around $2.00 and hour and were proud to do it. now unless you are saying that $2.00 an hour is way above market wage way back then then either you were not very good or are just full of shit. actually mac did and so did you. um no tbone. nobody said the average mexican lives in a ramshackle of a home. actually the link that you provided says different. with 40% living below the poverty line and according to you the ones with money tend to spend it on nice vehicles yes miles you said that the average mexican lives in a ramshackle of a home. why would they choose to be homeless sorry miles but you are full of it. theyre not homeless. they often would rather have a nice shiny car than a nice shiny home. different

From : napalmheart

i got out of college. and worked as a janitor not to mention other menial low paying jobs. so did all my classmates. now its all immigrants that fill those jobs in parts of northern va you practically have to speak spanish to order fast food because our kids no longer are willing to do such menial jobs. damn what have we well not me ive no kids been teaching these kids anyway i like australias system. if you want to emigrate here you have to prove you have a useful skill that australia needs/wants. if you try to sneak in attempted illegal immigration is by boat and plane here for obvious reasons and you get caught youre out within 24 hours usually on the next plane. even if your paperwork is all right if they suspect for any reason youre here to work rather than be a tourist next plane to where you came from. period. they regularly course businesses that historically hire illegal immigrants too check their passports and take them *right then* and send them on a plane home if theyre illegal. i understand about tired poor huddled masses but think sadly that things are out of control and we really need to do things like the aussies do. jmc i would only add that we also protect our southern border the way mexico protects theirs. ken . 222 342303 13qrg1lglvhu3ce@corp.super.com there are jobs in mexico for those that want to work for them without the aid of social hand outs. you really have no clue as to what mexico is like. i travel there often and have family who live and work in mexico. they are doing quite well. miles i know some people that are thinking about wintering in mexico during retirement. do you know about access to quality medical facilities/treatment there thanks ken .

From : roy

tbone wrote you really should be a politician miles as you also never give a straight answer. are you talking about prevention or prevention and exportation and if you are talking exportation how exactly are you going to do it and with what money see tbone youve never really traveled around mexico and are clueless arent you mexico is not the run down poor trashy country without jobs as so many like yourself tend to believe. the mexicans that come here to the usa are far different than the mainstream of mexico. those that come here illegally are mostly uneducated unwanted by the mexican society. so yes they come here because they can find free handouts and people like yourself that will support them. i try to stay out of the miles -tbone love fest but the above is a very good point. please continue gentlemen.g .

From : roy

there are jobs in mexico for those that want to work for them without the aid of social hand outs. you really have no clue as to what mexico is like. i travel there often and have family who live and work in mexico. they are doing quite well. miles i know some people that are thinking about wintering in mexico during retirement. do you know about access to quality medical facilities/treatment there thanks ken ken mac moved there not that long ago and seems to really enjoy it. roy .

From : mac davis

on sat 9 feb 2008 101503 -0500 roy roy@fhome.net wrote tbone wrote you really should be a politician miles as you also never give a straight answer. are you talking about prevention or prevention and exportation and if you are talking exportation how exactly are you going to do it and with what money see tbone youve never really traveled around mexico and are clueless arent you mexico is not the run down poor trashy country without jobs as so many like yourself tend to believe. the mexicans that come here to the usa are far different than the mainstream of mexico. those that come here illegally are mostly uneducated unwanted by the mexican society. so yes they come here because they can find free handouts and people like yourself that will support them. i try to stay out of the miles -tbone love fest but the above is a very good point. please continue gentlemen.g yup.. lots of really nice trucks and suvs running around this area and a lot of homes that are bigger and nicer than ours.. mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : miles

tbone wrote you really should be a politician miles as you also never give a straight answer. are you talking about prevention or prevention and exportation and if you are talking exportation how exactly are you going to do it and with what money what part of laws with regards to illegals to you just not get i stated we should not pander or give anything to illegals. i said enforcement first. get rid of the incentives for them to be here and to illegally enter and they will go. enforce laws such as az is doing where business can be shut down if they knowingly hire illegals. stop the hand outs at tax payer expense to support these illegals. lol how would you know you are far from the majority on most issues. being against your far left ways does not equate to far from majority. on this issue its pretty clear people do not want amnesty and pandering to illegals. once again your extreme right bias does the talking as demonstrated by your selection for a presidential candidate. the fact that he did so poorly shows how far out of the majority and to the right of even your party that you are. thompson had a lousy campaign. he didnt get his voice out there as the rest of them. it wasnt his policies. mccains policies are far worse and he was billed to be almost at collapse a few months ago because of his out of touch policies. yet today hes the front runner. if it were so great in mexico why did they come here. see tbone youve never really traveled around mexico and are clueless arent you mexico is not the run down poor trashy country without jobs as so many like yourself tend to believe. the mexicans that come here to the usa are far different than the mainstream of mexico. those that come here illegally are mostly uneducated unwanted by the mexican society. so yes they come here because they can find free handouts and people like yourself that will support them. lol what planet did you come from. they keep coming because their standard of living is worse than our homeless and we dont do a good job of stopping them. there are jobs in mexico for those that want to work for them without the aid of social hand outs. you really have no clue as to what mexico is like. i travel there often and have family who live and work in mexico. they are doing quite well. they know people like you will never enforce the law and they have a nice comfy place where people pander to their illegal status. sorry miles but once again you dont know wtf you are talking about. i have said more than once that i have no problem sending them on their way and properly closing down the borders. its people like you that say one thing and do the complete opposite because you know that if it really happens that wealth will wind up getting redistributed from the rich to the middle class and poor because american workers will not do those jobs for the poverty wages that the illegals will do it for. .

From : napalmheart

suddenly without warning tbone exclaimed 2/9/2008 246 pm sorry miles but once again you dont know wtf you are talking about. i have said more than once that i have no problem sending them on their way and properly closing down the borders. its people like you that say one thing and do the complete opposite because you know that if it really happens that wealth will wind up getting redistributed from the rich to the middle class and poor because american workers will not do those jobs for the poverty wages that the illegals will do it for. i suspect this may be the base of the problem. comes down to business controlling our govt again. if we got illegal immigration under control and removed those that are here illegally the businesses that rely on these immigrants would 1have problems finding employees 2 have to pay them a fair wage. they of course dont want to do either but use #1 as an excuse. ive seen that well go out of business if you take the illegals away. wah. shouldnt have gotten yourself in that fix in the first place. and if americans will no longer do those jobs we have only ourselves to blame. when i was young i worked in fast food. for years unti

From : napalmheart

on sat 9 feb 2008 101503 -0500 roy roy@fhome.net wrote tbone wrote you really should be a politician miles as you also never give a straight answer. are you talking about prevention or prevention and exportation and if you are talking exportation how exactly are you going to do it and with what money see tbone youve never really traveled around mexico and are clueless arent you mexico is not the run down poor trashy country without jobs as so many like yourself tend to believe. the mexicans that come here to the usa are far different than the mainstream of mexico. those that come here illegally are mostly uneducated unwanted by the mexican society. so yes they come here because they can find free handouts and people like yourself that will support them. i try to stay out of the miles -tbone love fest but the above is a very good point. please continue gentlemen.g yup.. lots of really nice trucks and suvs running around this area and a lot of homes that are bigger and nicer than ours.

From : miles

napalmheart wrote i know some people that are thinking about wintering in mexico during retirement. do you know about access to quality medical facilities/treatment there it depends on where you go. major hospitals in mexico have highly skilled drs every bit as good as in the usa. most major cities have decent health services. you may feel more comfortable in areas with large numbers of american retirees such as san carlos ensenada etc. .

From : tbone

napalmheart wrote i would only add that we also protect our southern border the way mexico protects theirs. yep! we should also adopt mexicos immigration laws and employment laws for immigrants. but miles that goes against what you just said. when we were talking about breaking up families you said that was not an issue as anyone can go to mexico. the problem now seems that children of those immigrants born here are american citizens and sending them to mexico would also be a form of illegal immigration. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote but miles that goes against what you just said. when we were talking about breaking up families you said that was not an issue as anyone can go to mexico. the problem now seems that children of those immigrants born here are american citizens and sending them to mexico would also be a form of illegal immigration. not so. if they were born to mexican citizen parents then they are also mexican citizens. i also feel the constitution should be amended such that in order to be an american citizen at least one parent must be a legal us citizen. .

From : tbone

there are jobs in mexico for those that want to work for them without the aid of social hand outs. you really have no clue as to what mexico is like. i travel there often and have family who live and work in mexico. they are doing quite well. miles i know some people that are thinking about wintering in mexico during retirement. do you know about access to quality medical facilities/treatment there thanks ken ken mac moved there not that long ago and seems to really enjoy it. im sure that he does as the cost of living there is nothing compared to here which pushes him to a much higher standard of living. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

on sat 9 feb 2008 095853 -0500 napalmheart olsonfamnospam@iserv.net wrote there are jobs in mexico for those that want to work for them without the aid of social hand outs. you really have no clue as to what mexico is like. i travel there often and have family who live and work in mexico. they are doing quite well. miles i know some people that are thinking about wintering in mexico during retirement. do you know about access to quality medical facilities/treatment there thanks ken im not miles but i live in baja california mx.. we pay $325 a month for excellent health insurance.. it even includes chopper medivac if needed... it would be cheaper if i wasnt an old fart.. they go by age.. mine is a little over $200 of that because im 12 years older than my wife.. and why do you think that it is so cheep. heres a guess. perhaps because even at that low rate most of the citizens of that country cant afford it. you really need to take a ride into the country and see what it is like all over not just in your little american retirement area. and im not talking about just the big cities either. our local doctor is excellent and the hospitals in mexicali are top notch.. im sure that they are as they are primarily dealing with the rich americans that have moved down there and yes mac compared to the income of many mexicans you are one of the rich ones. several folks down here prefer the care here to the states even though they have coverage in the states.. again im sure that they do as the the number of people being treated to the number of doctors treating them is much lower and these doctors are trying to build business. now thats baja.. i cant speak for mainland mx but you would think that anywhere around a big city would have excellent health care.. you might think that but even here in the us that is not always true. if the demand goes up the quality of care almost always goes down as the staff is simply not able to give as much attention to the individuals and there the demand in many areas is low because many there just cant afford it much like here with the higher levels of care. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote you really should be a politician miles as you also never give a straight answer. are you talking about prevention or prevention and exportation and if you are talking exportation how exactly are you going to do it and with what money see tbone youve never really traveled around mexico and are clueless arent you mexico is not the run down poor trashy country without jobs as so many like yourself tend to believe. the mexicans that come here to the usa are far different than the mainstream of mexico. those that come here illegally are mostly uneducated unwanted by the mexican society. so yes they come here because they can find free handouts and people like yourself that will support them. i try to stay out of the miles -tbone love fest but the above is a very good point. it seems so until you open your eyes and look at the big picture. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote you really need to take a ride into the country and see what it is like all over not just in your little american retirement area. and im not talking about just the big cities either. yes tbone you really do need to do that. i have. mexico is not the poor trashy run down country so many americans believe it to be. spend many years traveling all over mexico meeting the locals etc. then get back to us. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote but miles that goes against what you just said. when we were talking about breaking up families you said that was not an issue as anyone can go to mexico. the problem now seems that children of those immigrants born here are american citizens and sending them to mexico would also be a form of illegal immigration. not so. if they were born to mexican citizen parents then they are also mexican citizens. i also feel the constitution should be amended such that in order to be an american citizen at least one parent must be a legal us citizen. i agree or at least be in the process of becoming one. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : roy

tbone wrote i agree with you completely here but you have still not addressed the issue of what to do with the ones already here. yes i did. take away the reasons they are here and they will leave. if they cant work cant get free hand outs etc. then they will leave. greedy business owners are still going to hire them even in arizona and their life here is still going to be better than where they came from so most are not just going to leave. wrong. scores of them have already left. some small business owners have complained but most are not. the larger businesses are not joining in the legal appeals process. if it was such a big deal to these greedy companies then they would be funding the lawyers and they are not. very good point. . mccain doesnt know who he wants to be. he has flipped flopped all over if you compare his views over the last 7 years to his decades of voting records in the senate. sooo true. .

From : tbone

----- original message ----- from miles nope@nopers.com sent saturday february 09 2008 856 am subject re ot poll!!!! who wins tbone wrote you really should be a politician miles as you also never give a straight answer. are you talking about prevention or prevention and exportation and if you are talking exportation how exactly are you going to do it and with what money what part of laws with regards to illegals to you just not get i stated we should not pander or give anything to illegals. i said enforcement first. get rid of the incentives for them to be here and to illegally enter and they will go. enforce laws such as az is doing where business can be shut down if they knowingly hire illegals. stop the hand outs at tax payer expense to support these illegals. i agree with you completely here but you have still not addressed the issue of what to do with the ones already here. greedy business owners are still going to hire them even in arizona and their life here is still going to be better than where they came from so most are not just going to leave. lol how would you know you are far from the majority on most issues. being against your far left ways does not equate to far from majority. on this issue its pretty clear people do not want amnesty and pandering to illegals. sorry miles but with your bias you wouldnt have a clue. once again your extreme right bias does the talking as demonstrated by your selection for a presidential candidate. the fact that he did so poorly shows how far out of the majority and to the right of even your party that you are. thompson had a lousy campaign. he didnt get his voice out there as the rest of them. it wasnt his policies. you keep thinking that if it makes you feel better. thompson simply was the farthest to the right out of all of them which is of course why you felt he had the best policies but most of america doesnt agree with you. while i agree that his campaign was far from the best he was still in the national debates and people knew what he was about. edwards was the farthest to the left and also didnt have a great campaign which is why he is also out of the picture. people are tired of extremist like yourself and mccain is far from that. mccains policies are far worse and he was billed to be almost at collapse a few months ago because of his out of touch policies. yet today hes the front runner. again with your greed and extreme right wing bias i can see why you would think that but most of your party would not agree with you and out of the group he really does have the best chance of winning. the only one that could possibly beat him is hillary but the dems will probably screw that up as well and nominate obama. if it were so great in mexico why did they come here. see tbone youve never really traveled around mexico and are clueless arent you mexico is not the run down poor trashy country without jobs as so many like yourself tend to believe. the mexicans that come here to the usa are far different than the mainstream of mexico. those that come here illegally are mostly uneducated unwanted by the mexican society. so yes they come here because they can find free handouts and people like yourself that will support them. sorry miles but the numbers of people comming here every day from there betray you. many of them are hard working people the reason so many american businesses hire them and that as well betrays your bullshit. unless most mexicans are stupid idiots that their society rejects this is just more of your biased single minded thinking. im sure that there are many nice areas in mexico buit there are many not so nice ones dirt poor as well and the majority do not live in the best ones. lol what planet did you come from. they keep coming because their standard of living is worse than our homeless and we dont do a good job of stopping them. there are jobs in mexico for those that want to work for them without the aid of social hand outs. you really have no clue as to what mexico is like. i travel there often and have family who live and work in mexico. they are doing quite well. lol it seems that you either have family in every part of the world or you are just full of shit and im beginning to believe much more the latter. but even if that were true im sure that they went over there with what would be a considerable amount of money over there and either opened up their own businesses or are working for an american company in higher positions where their salaries are well above the average for the typical mexican. either way miles its all relative. what is considered big money over there probably couldnt get you a single room flat in many areas herein the us so it makes sense for them to come here live in what we would and do consider poverty but to them is still much better than where they came from sav

From : miles

tbone wrote i agree with you completely here but you have still not addressed the issue of what to do with the ones already here. yes i did. take away the reasons they are here and they will leave. if they cant work cant get free hand outs etc. then they will leave. greedy business owners are still going to hire them even in arizona and their life here is still going to be better than where they came from so most are not just going to leave. wrong. scores of them have already left. some small business owners have complained but most are not. the larger businesses are not joining in the legal appeals process. if it was such a big deal to these greedy companies then they would be funding the lawyers and they are not. thompson simply was the farthest to the right out of all of them which is of course why you felt he had the best policies but most of america doesnt agree with you. so edwards is out because of his far left policies that most of america doesnt agree with i agree thats one reason. but like thompson he wasnt front and center with his campaign. both were not covered as much in the media. they traveled to far fewer cities campaigning as clinton obama and mccain. people are tired of extremist like yourself and mccain is far from that. people dont want extremists such as yourself as well. mccain doesnt know who he wants to be. he has flipped flopped all over if you compare his views over the last 7 years to his decades of voting records in the senate. again with your greed and extreme right wing bias ya know tbone you keep ranting about my bias and ignore your own far left radical bias. ya i know youre a progressive liberal moderate conservative. if im so greedy and love greedy corporations then why am i so strongly against importing cheap illegal labor i can see why you would think that but most of your party would not agree with you and out of the group he really does have the best chance of winning. i agree because mccains been touting a rather moderate campaign. but look at his senate record and youll see hes very different that what you hear on his campaign. the only one that could possibly beat him is hillary but the dems will probably screw that up as well and nominate obama. i dont like obama at all but hes better than another clinton. sorry miles but the numbers of people comming here every day from there betray you. many of them are hard working people the reason so many american businesses hire them and that as well betrays your bullshit. oh ya then why are our countries prisons filled with illegals convicted of hard core crimes theyre not there because of immigration issues. look tbone you have not toured mexico for years at a time. you do not have mexican relatives. you are clueless as to whats down south of the border. until you go there your arguments are worthless. there is money and jobs in mexico. far more than you realize. im sure that there are many nice areas in mexico buit there are many not so nice ones dirt poor as well and the majority do not live in the best ones. the majority do not live in the dirt poor areas either. not even close. its similar to here although there are fewer very very rich mexicans. lol it seems that you either have family in every part of the world or you are just full of shit and im beginning to believe much more the latter. not every part but i do have family in mexico. as a teen i spent my entire summers there. my sister in law is mexican and her family lives there. my folks are retired in mexico. my sister owns a house there and my brother is building one. deal with it. is this your argument for your own lack of knowledge about mexico but even if that were true im sure that they went over there with what would be a considerable amount of money over there my sister in law and her family are born and raised in mexico so your theory is false. and either opened up their own businesses you dont know much about mexico!! americans cant get jobs in mexico let alone own their own business there. there are some major hoops one can jump through but it isnt easy to do. or are workining for an american company in higher positions where their salaries are well above the average for the typical mexican. sigh. tbone why do you keep trying to argue about a country that you simply do not know anything about either way miles its all relative. what is considered big money over there probably couldnt get you a single room flat in many areas here in the us so it makes sense for them to come here wrong. things arent that much cheaper in mexico. homes and land are although americans cant own land in many areas of mexico. if people are so poor in mexico then staple goods such as food clothing etc would be far cheaper than here. they are not and the stores are doing just fine with their sales. live in what we

From : mac davis

on sat 09 feb 2008 113011 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote mac davis wrote now thats baja.. i cant speak for mainland mx but you would think that anywhere around a big city would have excellent health care.. where about in baja my folks are in baja mar if you know where that is. also have a sister who has a beach home in la mision. baja mar as in town or development were at el dorado ranch near san felipe... about 120 miles south of calexico/yuma... there is a big development called baja mar also a hotel and steak house called that.. the whole2 states are called baja below and has mar beach/sea on 2 sides.. mac please remove splinters before emailing .