OT Do you see a pattern

From : tom

Q: im sorta curious do any of you folks that participate in the various political threads actually believe that you will sway anybodies vote it would seem to me that if one was so enthralled with their candidate that their time would be better spent supporting that candidate through phone banks leafleting and other campaign work. i just dont understand how going back and forth with the same 2 or 3 people are advancing your candidates election bid. roy i dont know what those guys are doing except taking out their frustrations. but i do know which one stirred the pot and lit the fire with his kerry kicked ass thread. it was pretty quiet until he pulled that stunt. i blame him for turning this into another pointless polictical group. 16 days until we start the election was stolen crap i cant wait - lol yea a typical conservative response blame someone else. that thread is long dead politically speaking and even if i never posted it this shit would be here just the same and if you dont believe it you are dumber than the typical extreme right wing conservative. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

Replies:

From : barney

if you really think so lol. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving failed rotflmbo!!!! ive got you spinning like a top about being a troll mr backpedal. -- budd pres. bush john kerry has changed his position on the iraq war so many times he could debate himself. b.c. and lose. but even at that he fails. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving on sun 17 oct 2004 234617 gmt budd cochran mr-d150@citlinkspam.net wrote greg just dont be so sure you are. you know i like to stir t-bone up occasionally. -- budd pres. bush john kerry has changed his position on the iraq war so many times he could debate himself. b.c. and lose. stir more like trying to put him through a blender. beekeep .

From : mac davis

http//abc.go.com/primetime//storyid=174461&page=1 abc says its so must be! no wonder t-bone is so frustrated and posts in here so often! lmao! they seem to think hes a girl! .

From : tbone

hi does anyone know if 1989/88 dodge trucks have standard positraction thanks sarah .

From : roy

the 2004 ram competes with it handily. unfortunately the 2013 6cyl is also peaky in its torque which means its not a great replacement for the cummins no matter what version of the cummins you have. not everyone revs their engines though. i never rev past 2500rpm. the peaky-ness of the deutz is very similar to the 12v cummins no now back to the fuel consumption deal. you are saying youd like to have the four banger since it would have great mpg figures. funny then to see the ratings between the deutz 2013 4cyl and 6cyl versions. the 4 popper uses 198 gallons per kwh while its big sister with two more cylinders burns fuel at 195 gallons per kwh. iow i was correct the 6 cylinder is more efficient. only if you require the amount of energy the six generates. i dont. dont make me do the math that i think you can do yourself. if i only need the power that the four creates i think id be well served. im not looking for a surplus of power...just what is required. this was never a discussion of whether the four five six or eight cylinder is the best design bullshit. you made it exactly that when you suggested a four cylinder could replace a six cylinder in an even swap. it can in certain applications. i never said in all situations/applications...now did i be honest. also you are being very narrow sighted. look at the big picture. ok...four banger uses 3 g/kwh more than the six. perhaps due to less than perfect harmonics and increased vibration. where the loses originate are not important to me. you have to admit there is a chance i can make up the difference in 3 g/kwh by using a smaller/lighter engine. anyway...im not argueing that the deutz four would yeild better mpgs than the deutz six but im comparing it to the cummins 12v currently in my pickup. i have read the specs from the manufacturers. 198 g/kwh is very specific. terrific. and the six burns less at 195 g/kwh. so despite the fact that you wont take my word the website you quote from which has your choice of engine on it claims the same thing i do. an inline six of the same design as an inline four will burn less fuel and do more work. damn how did that happen oh yeah its those parasitic internal losses you claimed i knew nothing about and had never considered. what are you argueing about the six burns less ummm...yeah but that isnt the only variable to be argued. your almost ignoring the premise of the formula g/kwh. its a measure of fuel consumption energy output and time. you are crazy...you are argueing in circles. i dont care how many cylinders the stupid engine has ok sure ya do you wanted to use a four and abused anyone that disagreed with you. no you abused me cause i didnt agree with you. so take your act somewhere else. i chose the four cause its small...i would choose a three cylinder over a four any day if i thought it would surfice. i dont care of your discussion of harmonics or balance. likely because it proves you wrong. no cause its a moot point. you just assume people on the board arent as well versed as you are some things are a given. i left the engine development up to deutz...hence the huge price tag of their engines. throw your energy into something more useful. you are sucking the fun out of this discussion. no i am removing your bullshit and replacing it with facts. interestingly im doing it using stuff you should have looked at and never gave a thought about. i dont have to think about it. deutz already has no you go out and design and build a diesel engine with a given number of cylinders thats an improvement over the deutzs four banger then lets chat ok however diesels like the 4cyl deutz you have clamored about on this thread will never work in a small vehicle. its power rating would shred small vehicle drivetrains and its 800+ lbs of weight would preclude use in a vehicle that weighed only slightly more than 1500lbs. small vehicle...ive been talking about a dodge 3/4 ton!!! where do you get 1500lbs for what its worth a full size 1/2 ton truck can handle a 800lbs motor. you are starting to sound like george bush. first you say 25mpg now you boost the figure to 30mpg. ill readily claim 25mpg is possible as ive done it. you didnt read my post. i most certainly did. you specifically mentioned the figure of 25mpg. but im assuming this behavior of avoiding the facts will go on ad infinitum thus ill leave you to your self delusion and deception by bullshit. most certainly did not silly man. go away. . 222 291999 9mqcd.66268$ci3.3912569@twister.southeast.rr.com http//abc.go.com/primetime//storyid=174461&page=1 abc says its so must be! no wonder t-bone is so frustrated and posts in here so often! lmao! they seem to think hes a girl! could you possibly be any more retarded -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving

From : budd cochran

he should talk to the survivors of co. d 151st airborne rangers in army reserve/ national guard from the vietnam era. they only out performed their army parent company in vietnam . . . by volunteering to serve there. -- budd pres. bush john kerry has changed his position on the iraq war so many times he could debate himself. b.c. and lose. on sat 16 oct 2004 202913 gmt j. a. m. jimbob@pgh.net wrote john z kerry wrote if the us was a country of individuals all saying i me me mine it wouldnt be a country at all it would be chaos. jam to repeat an oft asked question. does anybody know what j.a.m. is talking about john z kerry president t-bone steak houses anyone without a severe case of aad does. jam i dont. jam you are mistaking being able to read and comprehend with being able to understand. i can read what you say but to understand it would take a mind of your own level and i graduated junior high a long time ago so i am just a long way ahead of you. that i am confident is a problem that you face quite often so you should be aware of this whole arena. if i am wrong and you are actually an adult i apologize. not to you but to the world. you would then be an example of america having an educational system in a very sorry state. he claims to have been in uniform during the viet nam war. however he has not stated yet whether he actually served in country nor has he given any details of his military service other than viet nam was another unjust and immoral war. as you know if he did in fact serve during viet nam he would be in his 50s at a minimum. plus i think he got scared when i gave him details of my own viet nam service then challenged him to provide the same details of his service. kind of reminds me of a guy i knew who claimed he was a highly decorated navy seal who served in viet nam until one night i introduced him to two friends of mine from the vfw who were real seals in viet nam. i am very suspicious about jam when he claims four months service in viet nam as a junior officer qualifies kerry to be cinc. anyone with any military background knows that is preposterous. he also infers that service in the national guard is not military service. that is suspicious too. kind of like kerrys winter soldiers in 1970 who turned out to have never served a day in their life in uniform. john z kerry president t-bone steak house .

From : j a m

j. a. m. wrote yes the so called ban on assault weapons actually banned semiautomatic replicas of assault weapons. sigh. the problem is the publics definition of assualt weapon and what the law actually banned are vastly different. the ban had almost no effect on banning much of anything. besides since when does a criminal care about a law .

From : john z kerry

budd cochran wrote greg just dont be so sure you are. you know i like to stir t-bone up occasionally. -- budd pres. bush john kerry has changed his position on the iraq war so many times he could debate himself. b.c. and lose. on sun 17 oct 2004 142331 gmt roy roy@home.net wrote im sorta curious do any of you folks that participate in the various political threads actually believe that you will sway anybodies vote it would seem to me that if one was so enthralled with their candidate that their time would be better spent supporting that candidate through phone banks leafleting and other campaign work. i just dont understand how going back and forth with the same 2 or 3 people are advancing your candidates election bid. roy you make a good point - but it does bother me that i am thinking of voting for the same person as budd. beekeep lol! jam .

From : tbone

i have been lurking here since taking posession of my 04 durango ltd with the hemi. while at the dealership having a minor tweak done to my nav/radio the service manager tried to sell me an oil change two-way sneeze-thru windvents star-studded mud guards...........musta been a slow day. i told him that i had already had a change at 500 mi. with 5w-30 dino and would change again at 2k before going to full synthetic around 4k. this is an approach which i have used over multiple vehicles the theory being to get the chips out early while allowing the best ring seating during break in by sticking with dino. he told me 1. this is totally unnecessary due to modern manufacturing tolerances. 2. despite the owners manual calling for 5w-30 there was a tsb suggesting/requiring use of 5w-20 in all hemis. they use a semi-synthetic. any comments on the above 5w-20 seems awfully light to me. over the years ive used mobil-1 royal purple and amsoil in various vehicles. any comments on which is thought to be best nowadays tia mopartee .

From : regis

ron mcneil wrote on wed 03 nov 2004 062653 gmt mgg mike@pacbell.net wrote the bright side is that he cant be re-elected in 4 years....sad day for america and the rest of the world. - --mike or mike maybe the 51% of americans that voted for him know more than you two do! or maybe the southern do-ers out numbered the northern thinkers ... or maybe the arrogance and narrow-mindedness of the northerners just bit themselves in the ass. .

From : roy

on tue 02 nov 2004 060446 gmt budd cochran mr-d150@citlinkspam.net wrote the trans itself doesnt need a vacuum line so it may be for the transfer case but a line going to the trans has me baffled. ill double check my truck book. im not exactly sure what it is. i checked the truck over quickly and followed a vacuum line down the side of the kickdown linkage and it landed at the sport i previously mentioned and there seems to be some sort ot t in the line. this weekend ill be taking a closer look at it as the owner of the truck asked me to swap out the torque converter. ken .

From : max340

roy wrote nate i didnt know that kerry felt like this about abortion. kerry doesnt feel this way about abortion and has said so publically many times. lets get to the base of this issue. 1. roe v. wade is a 1970s debate. it has been upheld by the supreme court for over 30 years and is not going to be changed in the foreseable future. to vote based on the abortion issue is to harken back to what is quickly becoming an archaic issue. 2. abortion is a medical procedure like it or not. it is a medical moral emotional health religious and personal issue/decision. when the state starts to legislate in these areas it invades the personal rights of any individual who is placed in this situation. the only previous state that made laws regarding medical procedure was one that was to last a thousand years but fortunately was vanquished. 3. i do not believe abortion is a good idea. i believe that i am not in a position to tell anyone else what to think on this issue since i have no medical credentials and all other areas are personal judgements. 4. it is not my right to impose my beliefs on someone else via government intervention. 5. this issue is bullshit and falls far below the importance of many others that should be part of the voting process simply because the decision by the supreme court is 30 years old. no president will ever reverse roe v.wade since no president will bring his appeal to the court on the grounds of having his rights violated since to date none have had abortions or are capable of having such a precedure. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan that says it all for me as well. roy yup. jeff -- -- in the week ending oct. 17 there were 23 american soldiers killed in iraq. i saw no prominent mention anywhere. if there were 23 policemen killed in new york in a week the city would shut down. if there were 23 police officers killed in the nation in a week it would be a national calamity. but the 23 dead american soldiers went virtually unmentioned. i watch the today show and they say that now we are going to see all the good things happening in iraq. insanity. jimmy breslin .

From : budd cochran

tom lawrence wrote are you sure because my reader says all cars 1996 up cars all went to obd-ii in 96 yes... trucks werent subjected to the same similar but not the same regulations. rams werent obd-ii compliant until 98. this should clear up some of the confusion .................... seems there is a big difference in ob-ii compliant and ob-ii equipped. http//www.obdii.com/connector.html jerry .

From : tbone

nate i didnt know that kerry felt like this about abortion. kerry doesnt feel this way about abortion and has said so publically many times. lets get to the base of this issue. 1. roe v. wade is a 1970s debate. it has been upheld by the supreme court for over 30 years and is not going to be changed in the foreseable future. to vote based on the abortion issue is to harken back to what is quickly becoming an archaic issue. 2. abortion is a medical procedure like it or not. it is a medical moral emotional health religious and personal issue/decision. when the state starts to legislate in these areas it invades the personal rights of any individual who is placed in this situation. the only previous state that made laws regarding medical procedure was one that was to last a thousand years but fortunately was vanquished. 3. i do not believe abortion is a good idea. i believe that i am not in a position to tell anyone else what to think on this issue since i have no medical credentials and all other areas are personal judgements. 4. it is not my right to impose my beliefs on someone else via government intervention. 5. this issue is bullshit and falls far below the importance of many others that should be part of the voting process simply because the decision by the supreme court is 30 years old. no president will ever reverse roe v.wade since no president will bring his appeal to the court on the grounds of having his rights violated since to date none have had abortions or are capable of having such a precedure. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : budd cochran

are you sure because my reader says all cars 1996 up cars all went to obd-ii in 96 yes... trucks werent subjected to the same similar but not the same regulations. rams werent obd-ii compliant until 98. .

From : tbone

on tue 02 nov 2004 053550 gmt r m biteme@spammers.suck wrote also the autozones here wont clear them anymore. the engine codes obtained in this manner are somewhat vague. to find out whats really happening go over to an autozone parts store. they have an obdii scan tool and will happily read out the codes for you at no charge. except a 96 ram truck isnt an obd-ii system... the ones here central ca never did clear them unless you had them do the work.... kind of an incentive to have them do it or at least have you buy the parts there.. *g* .

From : budd cochran

lol yea but the oil companies arent letting him talk to you either. them boys have some real power. well time to go vote talk to ya later. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving not possible tom. neither of my sons tell me i have any grandkids yet . . .. that i can claim . . and cochrane is the old world spelling of my name so hell have to be related to me and . . . -- budd if it wasnt important enough for you to take time to vote then its not important to me to listen to you whine about who won or lost. sure he did but the oil companies are keeping it hidden - -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving the war on terra the war on earth of course the war is on earth zefram cochrane hasnt invented warp drive technology yet. -- budd if it wasnt important enough for you to take time to vote then its not important to me to listen to you whine about who won or lost. tbone wrote c1e32590.0410310847.31dcbc15@posting.google.com montanajeeper montanajeeper@aol.com wrote i avoid these political threads as much as possible but will respond here. as a father and a man who loves children the only pattern i need to see is that john kerry voted 6 times to allow partial birth abortions where babies even in their third term are pulled from their mother by the feet except for the head. the base of the skull is exposed and a doctor shoves scissors in to spread the skull. a suction catheter is then inserted to suck the babies brains out until the skull collapses. i cannot express enough how sickened i am by this practice those who perform it and those who support it and dismiss it as a right to choose. im sorry your right to choose was whether or not to open your legs. killing a baby is just that. please read http//www.abortionfacts.com/literature/literature9313pb.asp and remember it when you go to the polls. nate i didnt know that kerry felt like this about abortion. with a lot of people wanting to adopt children and having to wait along time the politicians just decide that abor is the easy way out. maybe kerrys mother should of had an abortion before she had him. i wonder want kerry would think of that if kerrys mother had an abortion he wouldnt be thinking about anything. you make it sound like adoption is such an easy thing. let me tell you it isnt. i do find it funny that so many who believe in the right to life also support the death penalty. and the war on terra. jeff -- -- in the week ending oct. 17 there were 23 american soldiers killed in iraq. i saw no prominent mention anywhere. if there were 23 policemen killed in new york in a week the city would shut down. if there were 23 police officers killed in the nation in a week it would be a national calamity. but the 23 dead american soldiers went virtually unmentioned. i watch the today show and they say that now we are going to see all the good things happening in iraq. insanity. jimmy breslin .

From : jeff mayner

that is not completely true since my 97 is. hmmm... ok. i always thought it didnt happen until the 98 my. 97 is one of the few years of rams missing from my fleet .

From : budd cochran

this has happened twice now... while driving my 98 24 valve in extreme high wind areas something funny happens with the electrical system. my speedometer flakes out and starts bouncing all over the place obviously disrupting the cruise control and the brake and abs lights come on and stay on until i restart the engine. it seems to continue to run fine though! anyone else have this issue or have any ideas why thanks sean .

From : tbone

whats wrong with the tem user friendly its clear concise accurate most of the time and its user friendly. -- budd if it wasnt important enough for you to take time to vote then its not important to me to listen to you whine about who won or lost. clyde wrote i have worked on and with computers since 1968. snip the aol software is extremely well written it is stable reliable efficient user friendly and is exactly suited for the job that it was intended to do. and you still use phrases like user friendly that says it all. .

From : budd cochran

clyde wrote i have worked on and with computers since 1968. snip the aol software is extremely well written it is stable reliable efficient user friendly and is exactly suited for the job that it was intended to do. and you still use phrases like user friendly that says it all. .

From : tbone

mike simmons wrote the parade for the red sox was something that id never seen before. reports had the crowd at over 2 million unreal. sorry mike maybe next year.vbg roy yeah you guys deserved it. its been a looooong time! yeah but now they have the problem of not being able to blame their losses playing in the future on the big bambino curse....... jerry .

From : budd cochran

if kerrys mother had an abortion he wouldnt be thinking about anything. you make it sound like adoption is such an easy thing. let me tell you it isnt. i do find it funny that so many who believe in the right to life also support the death penalty. then pray tell what crime did the infant commit to deserve a death penalty is being conceived enough reason then abortions can be done at any age because the original crime was being conceived by the parents. budd i said before and ill say it again since you appear to be hard of hearing i dont agree with partial birth abortion!!! i simply gave a reason why people dont want to make it illegal especially with no exceptions. tom im just giving the viewpoint of why it can get out of hand easily. where do you stop calling abortion and begin calling murder i agree with you it can get out of hand just like so many things with humans. unfortunantly it can get out of hand the other way as well and it is hard to decide which one is worse. as for murder i would agree with you that a pba without either the need to save the mothers life or because the fetus is horribly deformed and the child would have a short and painful life if born should be considered murder. should the mother die so that the baby may possibly live even if she chooses not to i have no problem with saving a mothers life but at the point being discussed partial birth abortion the child is usually viable and able to go on to what ever life it chooses. here in moab we have had several emergency c-sections for the reason of saving both child and mother. i agree but as you know an emergancy c-section is a fairly serious form of surgery and i am also sure that you know there are times when the mother may not even be abe to survive that surgery. making pbas completely illegal with no exceptions condems these women to a death sentence even though the baby may not survive anyway. and lets face facts if the mother is willing to let the doctor perform this barbaric procedure to her unborn child for anything but a live or die reason is the child really any better off in the care of this person adoption laws need to be re-written to favor all classes of incomes and not just the rich. the adoption laws need to be rewritten period. until the baby is born it is not a child or even an infant and with the way we as humans kill just about everything including each other... that is your opinion. i believe life begins at the moment of conception because the tissues that result from conception can never be a dog a cat or a horse only a human being nothing else. while true there are no guarantees that it will survive to birth or be normal or even capable of life after it is. until birth it is connected to and completely dependant on the mother and is not an individual life. now like you said this is my opinion just like yours is yours and neither one should be legislated or forced on the other. it is not fecal matter to be passed with a grunt and a plop. it is not hair or nails to be trimmed when neccessary. it is a human foetus infant or child. while it may be a human fetus it is not an infant or child until after birth by definition and since a fetus cannot survive outside of the mothers womb... what did your mother have in her uterus when she was carrying you a great deal of worry. -- budd if it wasnt important enough for you to take time to vote then its not important to me to listen to you whine about who won or lost. i see that you finally got a good sig line. too bad it will lose its value in a few days i hope. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

it was injector...front passenger.....plug was black.....replaced injector fixed.....thanks everyone......i love my truck again every once in a while we get lucky glad to hear its running good again. you may want to consider using a can of mopar combustion chamber cleaner since youve probably got a good amount of carbon built up in the #2 chamber. this can lead to pinging once the engine warms up. plan on changing all the plugs after doing this as the cleaner tends to foul the plugs a bit. .

From : budd cochran

sure he did but the oil companies are keeping it hidden - -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving the war on terra the war on earth of course the war is on earth zefram cochrane hasnt invented warp drive technology yet. -- budd if it wasnt important enough for you to take time to vote then its not important to me to listen to you whine about who won or lost. tbone wrote c1e32590.0410310847.31dcbc15@posting.google.com montanajeeper montanajeeper@aol.com wrote i avoid these political threads as much as possible but will respond here. as a father and a man who loves children the only pattern i need to see is that john kerry voted 6 times to allow partial birth abortions where babies even in their third term are pulled from their mother by the feet except for the head. the base of the skull is exposed and a doctor shoves scissors in to spread the skull. a suction cathet

From : jeff mayner

what are you talking about. dale bg im scot-irish / cherokee. -- budd if it wasnt important enough for you to take time to vote then its not important to me to listen to you whine about who won or lost. cochran mr-d150@citlinkspam.net wrote sorry tom but ive worked with the handicapped and some that would turn your stomach to look at them and found them to be caringloving and in their own way intelligent educatable people. ive seen completely normal offspring from them as well. deformities is no reason to abort. how much is deformed what kind of deformity come on think about it. do you have one leg shorter than the other most people do ya know. then it will be if you are not blue eyed blond hair not of german decent hey this sounds like dejavu dale .

From : yonzie

i think the truck will be just fine sitting for that short of a period. enjoy your trip. mac wrote one other thing im wondering is whether its worth changing the oil before i go if its only been about 800 miles and 6 weeks since the previous change. but those 800 miles were all city driving. p.s. im heading to a few countries in asia and leaving the truck in a hotel parking lot but its actually covered. it seems like a 2-level garage...the building supervisor told me its best to leave it on the top level to avoid any possible leaks calcium etc. from the concrete ceiling. a hotel turns out to be the best place i can leave it believe it or not given my housing and travelling situation...i always leave it in hotels right next to airport for a month or so and havent had any problem yet---and only $20/week. .

From : budd cochran

brains out until the skull collapses. i cannot express enough how sickened i am by this practice those who perform it and those who support it and dismiss it as a right to choose. im sorry your right to choose was whether or not to open your legs. killing a baby is just that. please read http//www.abortionfacts.com/literature/literature9313pb.asp and remember it when you go to the polls. nate i didnt know that kerry felt like this about abortion. with a lot of people wanting to adopt children and having to wait along time the politicians just decide that abor is the easy way out. maybe kerrys mother should of had an abortion before she had him. i wonder want kerry would think of that if kerrys mother had an abortion he wouldnt be thinking about anything. you make it sound like adoption is such an easy thing. let me tell you it isnt. i do find it funny that so many who believe in the right to life also support the death penalty. and the war on terra. jeff -- -- in the week ending oct. 17 there were 23 american soldiers killed in iraq. i saw no prominent mention anywhere. if there were 23 policemen killed in new york in a week the city would shut down. if there were 23 police officers killed in the nation in a week it would be a national calamity. but the 23 dead american soldiers went virtually unmentioned. i watch the today show and they say that now we are going to see all the good things happening in iraq. insanity. jimmy breslin . 222 292690 llhd.1725$bl5.99@01.roc.ny the war on terra the war on earth of course the war is on earth zefram cochrane hasnt invented warp drive technology yet. -- budd if it wasnt important enough for you to take time to vote then its not important to me to listen to you whine about who won or lost. tbone wrote c1e32590.0410310847.31dcbc15@posting.google.com montanajeeper montanajeeper@aol.com wrote i avoid these political threads as much as possible but will respond here. as a father and a man who loves children the only pattern i need to see is that john kerry voted 6 times to allow partial birth abortions where babies even in their third term are pulled from their mother by the feet except for the head. the base of the skull is exposed and a doctor shoves scissors in to spread the skull. a suction catheter is then inserted to suck the babies brains out until the skull collapses. i cannot express enough how sickened i am by this practice those who perform it and those who support it and dismiss it as a right to choose. im sorry your right to choose was whether or not to open your legs. killing a baby is just that. please read http//www.abortionfacts.com/literature/literature9313pb.asp and remember it when you go to the polls. nate i didnt know that kerry felt like this about abortion. with a lot of people wanting to adopt children and having to wait along time the politicians just decide that abor is the easy way out. maybe kerrys mother should of had an abortion before she had him. i wonder want kerry would think of that if kerrys mother had an abortion he wouldnt be thinking about anything. you make it sound like adoption is such an easy thing. let me tell you it isnt. i do find it funny that so many who believe in the right to life also support the death penalty. and the war on terra. jeff -- -- in the week ending oct. 17 there were 23 american soldiers killed in iraq. i saw no prominent mention anywhere. if there were 23 policemen killed in new york in a week the city would shut down. if there were 23 police officers killed in the nation in a week it would be a national calamity. but the 23 dead american soldiers went virtually unmentioned. i watch the today show and they say that now we are going to see all the good things happening in iraq. insanity. jimmy breslin .

From : yonzie

jerry wrote nosey wrote jerry wrote tbone wrote i have been running mine at 30 - 32 for the last 10000 with no problems including 4 round trips between jersey and nc. youre driving a 3/4 ton with load range e tires jerry thats what my 99 2500 came with from the factory. so did mine ......... and so did kens. but tbone has a 1500. point is running a 2500 with e rated tires aired down to 30 psi at freeway speeds would seem to be asking for trouble in my opinion. jerry i get it. you threw me off when you wrote 3/4 ton. .

From : yonzie

cochran mr-d150@citlinkspam.net wrote sorry tom but ive worked with the handicapped and some that would turn your stomach to look at them and found them to be caringloving and in their own way intelligent educatable people. ive seen completely normal offspring from them as well. deformities is no reason to abort. how much is deformed what kind of deformity come on think about it. do you have one leg shorter than the other most people do ya know. then it will be if you are not blue eyed blond hair not of german decent hey this sounds like dejavu dale .

From : budd cochran

heres the problem. its an 89 4x4 with a 360. the man who owns it had the tranny replaced and he tells me the tranny came out of something/another truck that was equiped with a 318. the truck vibrates and shifts late. i found the vacum line off of the modulator and figured that was the problem with the shifting. the machanical linkages from the tranny to the carb are ok. my original thought about this was the 319 and 360 engines are balanced differently and the cause of the vibration is probably the torque converter. thanks ken .

From : budd cochran

on mon 01 nov 2004 022106 gmt denny wddodge@woh.rr.com wrote tbone wrote i have been running mine at 30 - 32 for the last 10000 with no problems including 4 round trips between jersey and nc. youre driving a 3/4 ton with load range e tires jerry im driving a 1/2 ton with e range tires but they didnt come original equip. denny and ill bet that it didnt come stock with the bunny ear roof option either... .

From : montanajeeper

if kerrys mother had an abortion he wouldnt be thinking about anything. you make it sound like adoption is such an easy thing. let me tell you it isnt. i do find it funny that so many who believe in the right to life also support the death penalty. then pray tell what crime did the infant commit to deserve a death penalty is being conceived enough reason then abortions can be done at any age because the original crime was being conceived by the parents. -- budd if it wasnt important enough for you to take time to vote then its not important to me to listen to you whine about who won or lost. .

From : tbone

tom im just giving the viewpoint of why it can get out of hand easily. where do you stop calling abortion and begin calling murder i agree with you it can get out of hand just like so many things with humans. unfortunantly it can get out of hand the other way as well and it is hard to decide which one is worse. as for murder i would agree with you that a pba without either the need to save the mothers life or because the fetus is horribly deformed and the child would have a short and painful life if born should be considered murder. sorry tom but ive worked with the handicapped and some that would turn your stomach to look at them and found them to be caringloving and in their own way intelligent educatable people. ive seen completely normal offspring from them as well. deformities is no reason to abort. how much is deformed what kind of deformity come on think about it. do you have one leg shorter than the other most people do ya know. we are talking about two different things. i specifically said the type of deformities that would cause a very short and painful life such as in hours or days not external physical deformities. who has the right to make the determination that the child will not live i used the example i gave because the yong lady i mentioned as being so disfigured was not expected to live more than a few hours when she was born. i met her when she was thirty years old and you should have heard her play the violin. she played it by holding it opposite of normal position on her lap so her best hand could do the fingering. according to your standards she never would have been given the chance to finish school learn the violin or anything else. should the mother die so that the baby may possibly live even if she chooses not to i have no problem with saving a mothers life but at the point being discussed partial birth abortion the child is usually viable and able to go on to what ever life it chooses. here in moab we have had several emergency c-sections for the reason of saving both child and mother. i agree but as you know an emergancy c-section is a fairly serious form of surgery and i am also sure that you know there are times when the mother may not even be abe to survive that surgery. a serious surgery yes. life threatening to mother and child not that often anymore. this last year in a town of onlty 5000 people we peformed 35 c-sections without problems. thats a rather high percentage for this size of town. when both are healthy i agree but in that case there would be no valid need for a pba either. the point is tom not all those cases involved a healthy woman or a healthy child. to assume there were no emergency c-sections would be to stick your head in the sand to life. out of all of the c-sections they lost one child but it was stillborn anyway. making pbas completely illegal with no exceptions condems these women to a death sentence even though the baby may not survive anyway. making it legal is no guarantee either thats the problem. but one way guarantees the child never has a chance in life. and the other guarantees the death of the mother in that situation. either way its a win lose situation ad in that case i side with the mother. youre rather stuck on killing kids tom. c-sections are the alternative to pbas that does not terminate the childs life. that would be a win-win situation. and lets face facts if the mother is willing to let the doctor perform this barbaric procedure to her unborn child for anything but a live or die reason is the child really any better off in the care of this person the tom i really must insist you look closer at the values of the liberals in america. most are secular humanists and have little regard for the lives of the unborn and for any moral values. i must disagree with you on this. while i am sure that there are some that are this way i would not say that most are. i personally know more conservatives that act this way but i will not say that is a conservative trait either. whatever. keep your head in the sand if you wish. adoption laws need to be re-written to favor all classes of incomes and not just the rich. the adoption laws need to be rewritten period. agreed. i know of a teen foster daughter we had that would have been much better off if a good family could have adopted her. even we though we were good enough to be foster parents didnt qualify. amazing isnt it. you are good enought to be paid to do it but not good enough to do it out of love. some of the systems in this country are a real joke. agreed. the young lady decided the only way oiut of the social services gulag system was by getting pregnant then she made the mistake of trusting the wrong people with her child while she went to look for a job. because those liars had a bit more clout with the

From : miles

my point was simply that we need to realize these differences try not to offend yet make some kind of general decision about when life begins. is it with the first breath is it when the sperm and egg join is it when the cell splits the first time or the 2 millionth time when my beliefs are fundamentalist but is it right as nate said killing a baby is just that. i agree and imho killing the zygote is just that. and where are the lines to be drawn a simple re-phrasing and a parent could have a child killed as a teenager just because the parent doesnt think theyll ever amount to anything and call it an abortion. -- budd budd cochran wrote tom im just giving the viewpoint of why it can get out of hand easily. where do you stop calling abortion and begin calling murder this is why the nation is split on the abortion issue. some people call a zygote or gametes a person and therefore an abortion would be murder. others do not view it that way. it is a very personal viewpoint that neither side will ever get the other to understand. therefore i dont try to convince someone else of my viewpoint nor do i tell them that their viewpoint is wrong and needs to be changed. but i do get upset at others who insist that i change mine because they feel its wrong. .

From : tbone

if kerrys mother had an abortion he wouldnt be thinking about anything. you make it sound like adoption is such an easy thing. let me tell you it isnt. i do find it funny that so many who believe in the right to life also support the death penalty. then pray tell what crime did the infant commit to deserve a death penalty is being conceived enough reason then abortions can be done at any age because the original crime was being conceived by the parents. budd i said before and ill say it again since you appear to be hard of hearing i dont agree with partial birth abortion!!! i simply gave a reason why people dont want to make it illegal especially with no exceptions. tom im just giving the viewpoint of why it can get out of hand easily. where do you stop calling abortion and begin calling murder should the mother die so that the baby may possibly live even if she chooses not to i have no problem with saving a mothers life but at the point being discussed partial birth abortion the child is usually viable and able to go on to what ever life it chooses. here in moab we have had several emergency c-sections for the reason of saving both child and mother. adoption laws need to be re-written to favor all classes of incomes and not just the rich. until the baby is born it is not a child or even an infant and with the way we as humans kill just about everything including each other... that is your opinion. i believe life begins at the moment of conception because the tissues that result from conception can never be a dog a cat or a horse only a human being nothing else. it is not fecal matter to be passed with a grunt and a plop. it is not hair or nails to be trimmed when neccessary. it is a human foetus infant or child. what did your mother have in her uterus when she was carrying you -- budd if it wasnt important enough for you to take time to vote then its not important to me to listen to you whine about who won or lost. .

From : tbone

if the oil only has 6 weeks on it it makes no sense to change it before you go. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving one other thing im wondering is whether its worth changing the oil before i go if its only been about 800 miles and 6 weeks since the previous change. but those 800 miles were all city driving. p.s. im heading to a few countries in asia and leaving the truck in a hotel parking lot but its actually covered. it seems like a 2-level garage...the building supervisor told me its best to leave it on the top level to avoid any possible leaks calcium etc. from the concrete ceiling. a hotel turns out to be the best place i can leave it believe it or not given my housing and travelling situation...i always leave it in hotels right next to airport for a month or so and havent had any problem yet---and only $20/week. mac wrote ooops im letting it sit it for 8 weeks...ive let it sit for 6 weeks in the past and all i do is top off the gas tank and add extra air to tires and sometimes change oil either before or after.. and thats all i plan to do now...i dont even disconnect the battery. but i dont know if long-term damage i.e. life-expectancy etc was caused by letting it sit for 6 or 8 weeks. just curious how would you know if its causing a problem or not since i would think any problems would not show up for maybe a year or 2 or 3... later i would think its very analagous to smoking...seems like no problem... until 20 years later. with a car i would think that it would be very hard to tell cause-effect problems if things like internal rust result from letting it sit and small cracks then eventually....etc.... if you are concerned about it have a trusted friend or neighbor start it up or even drive it around the block one time in the middle of the storage period. have a good trip and try not to worry about it too much. where overseas are you headed .

From : bdk

i agree with you 100% here but the problem and fear is that is will not stop there. but you cannot justify this unparalleled savagry for fear of further legislation. nothing you or anyone else can ever say will justify partial birth abortion to me. it is the most barbaric practice ive ever heard of and its being done on children tom. dude you are preaching to the quire i agree with you 100% and disagree with kerry on this issue. i am simply stating why not that i agree with it. the thing is that there are other important issues besides that and any way you look at it it is society that calls for such barbaric practices not kerry or any one person. you can make abortion illegal but that will not stop it only a change in the beliefs of society can do that. you cannot compare the murder of an innocent baby to the execution of a convicted killer getting his just deserve. ironically to your view i find it disturbing that liberals want to protect the lives of convicted killers while protecting the mothers right to kill her unborn child. protect murderers kill children scratching head. first of all i am not against the death penalty but what happens if the person who committed the crime is innocent is that not murder i do not agree with abortion either but it is not for me or you to say it is for society to determine not laws that will not work. there is a time when death is appropriate and when its not. how liberals could get it exactly backwards is beyond my scope of reason. how can anyone suck the brains out of an unborn child until its skull collapses i agree with you. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

@posting.google.com montanajeeper@aol.com says... i agree with you 100% here but the problem and fear is that is will not stop there. but you cannot justify this unparalleled savagry for fear of further legislation. nothing you or anyone else can ever say will justify partial birth abortion to me. it is the most barbaric practice ive ever heard of and its being done on children tom. you cannot compare the murder of an innocent baby to the execution of a convicted killer getting his just deserve. ironically to your view i find it disturbing that liberals want to protect the lives of convicted killers while protecting the mothers right to kill her unborn child. protect murderers kill children scratching head. there is a time when death is appropriate and when its not. how liberals could get it exactly backwards is beyond my scope of reason. how can anyone suck the brains out of an unborn child until its skull collapses first off you have to realize that partial birth abortion is very rarely done at least in the us and mainly due to the mothers life being at stake. try not to get all emotional about it. im anti abortion in most respects and i think it should be banned after the 3rd month with exceptions for the mothers life being at stake or if the baby has a fatal or totally debilitating illness where it would only suffer until it died. but you will never stop it completely its too easy to do. i have no problem banning partial birth abortion except for the life of the mother but everyone gets all hysterical and cant seem to compromise even a little tiny bit. if theres no exception than no ban on it.. im partially for the death penalty but when defendant after defendant is cleared years after conviction due to prosecution misconduct dna etc its too imperfect a process to continue with. can you imagine getting picked up one day arrested for murder an eyewitness picks you as the killer youre convicted sentenced to death sit in jail hoping your appeal somehow wins then one day taken and given the needle or chair and all the time the only persons who are really sure you are innocent are the real killer and you could you imaging this happening and after spending 15 years or whatever locked up you are let go after spending 15 years on death row for something you didnt do and then getting nothing from the state whol locked you up all that time you know this has had to have happend. nothing is perfect. i slightly know someone who was falsely jailed for child abuse. the cops scared him so bad he pled guilty to something that never even happend there were a dozen witnesses that were planning to testify that the charges were total bs. its too long to go into here but basically the prosecutor played games and his witnesses found out there wasnt going to be a trial the day he got sentenced to 13 years. the people who were going to testify for him went to the judge who couldnt have cared less apparently. it took a new lawyer and then threatening to take it on tv and tell everything they suddenly said he could have a new trial and then dropped the charges at the opening of it. he spent almost 5 years in prison hes a basket case hes never gonna be right again. and the prosecutor well hes a partner in a big local law firm. he should have gotten a sentence equal to what he spent in jail and should have been disbarred. bdk .

From : budd cochran

i agree with you 100% here but the problem and fear is that is will not stop there. but you cannot justify this unparalleled savagry for fear of further legislation. nothing you or anyone else can ever say will justify partial birth abortion to me. it is the most barbaric practice ive ever heard of and its being done on children tom. you cannot compare the murder of an innocent baby to the execution of a convicted killer getting his just deserve. ironically to your view i find it disturbing that liberals want to protect the lives of convicted killers while protecting the mothers right to kill her unborn child. protect murderers kill children scratching head. there is a time when death is appropriate and when its not. how liberals could get it exactly backwards is beyond my scope of reason. how can anyone suck the brains out of an unborn child until its skull collapses .

From : tbone

amen brother. -- budd i avoid these political threads as much as possible but will respond here. as a father and a man who loves children the only pattern i need to see is that john kerry voted 6 times to allow partial birth abortions where babies even in their third term are pulled from their mother by the feet except for the head. the base of the skull is exposed and a doctor shoves scissors in to spread the skull. a suction catheter is then inserted to suck the babies brains out until the skull collapses. i cannot express enough how sickened i am by this practice those who perform it and those who support it and dismiss it as a right to choose. im sorry your right to choose was whether or not to open your legs. killing a baby is just that. please read http//www.abortionfacts.com/literature/literature9313pb.asp and remember it when you go to the polls. .

From : yonzie

i use invisible glass by stoner it works great and wont hurt your graphics r. j. folkman wrote when i first got my rear window graphic you could see through it. now i guess the little holes are filling up with dirt and reducing visibility. what is the best way to clean it without damaging the graphic thanks when i put mine on i remember the directions saying something about not using any cleaners that have ammonia like windex. i always washed it with a soft brush and whatever car wash soap thats in the bucket while washing the rest of the truck. no problems since installing it 3 years ago. .

From : montanajeeper

ooops im letting it sit it for 8 weeks...ive let it sit for 6 weeks in the past and all i do is top off the gas tank and add extra air to tires and sometimes change oil either before or after.. and thats all i plan to do now...i dont even disconnect the battery. but i dont know if long-term damage i.e. life-expectancy etc was caused by letting it sit for 6 or 8 weeks. just curious how would you know if its causing a problem or not since i would think any problems would not show up for maybe a year or 2 or 3... later i would think its very analagous to smoking...seems like no problem... until 20 years later. with a car i would think that it would be very hard to tell cause-effect problems if things like internal rust result from letting it sit and small cracks then eventually....etc.... mac even eight weeks wont hurt it although your battery may go dead in that time. many times we have a car on our lot that for some reason just doesnt sell and it can sit for eight weeks and even longer with no detriment. check your pdc and see if you have an iod ignition off-draw fuse if so pull it. it disconnects the radio memory etc. and keeps the battery from goind dead due to small drains from the computer. a battery will self-discharge over time though so when you return it wouldnt hurt to give it a charge before driving. mike i have about 80000 miles on my dakota but havent driven much in the past few years. i got a cooling system flush about 2 years ago but only drove between about 10000 or 12000 since then. the manual says to do it every 2 years or x number of miles...i think it says about 30000 miles....is it a good idea to change it before winter even if only about 10 or 12k miles but 2 years. im not sure how important the time factor is. i do plan to let it sit in a garage for about 6 weeks this winter when i travel overseas. a related question is some people/mechanics say to change the oil before letting it sit some say change it soon after returning instead. mac my .02 is to change the coolant every two years regardless of use and mileage. your coolant will likely retain its antifreeze properties much longer than this but the corrosion inhibitors do wear out with time. imho antifreeze is cheap and cooling systems repairs aint! did i mention i own stock in prestone ;^ as far as the oil goes six weeks is no time at all..... many cars sit on our lot for much longer with no adverse effects. if you were going to be gone six months or longer now thats a different story. if you want to change it though i would probably do it before you lay it up. mike .

From : j a m

what are the major concerns i should have about performance and detremental affects to the vehicle if i use a snow plow transmission heat if a automatic. easy to avoid with a transmission temp gauge and a deep pan. are there any recommendations about which plow and hitch system i should use ive used fisher products for 30 years without any major problems. fisher uses a trip edge where others may use a trip blade. friends have used a v blade but have had problems with them. get a good set of dedicated snow tires while your at it. heres something to look at www.fisherplows.com all of dennys advice is right on the money. talk about suckin up after all those rabbit jokes....... vbg what rabbit jokes vbg did you buy the truck off your buddy yet it wasnt a truck it was a 7 of them and the accounts. it was tempting but i really enjoyed last winter without all the bs so i passed on the deal. that would be a headache and a half. how in the hell would you find seven dependable operators to keep em all running i cant say that i blame you for passing. denny .

From : the sneed

tbone wrote what does this have too do with what budd said. iirc he said that me might vote for himself and his wife. what does that have to do with a third party. geez tbone youre going in circles here! you told budd that if he doesnt vote for bush or kerry its the same as voting for bush. which is for the most part true. if you dont want bush to serve another term then you need to vote for someone that actually has a chance of winning even if that were nader. to just cast a meaningless vote serves no purpose and is a mockery of our system. and since you have all wisdom tell us how a third party cannot win all it would take is enough votes cast for that candidate. while completely true the third party would have to be popular enough to win enough votes. voting for yourself or even nader this time with 2% pole results is just throwing away a vote. wrong tom. a vote cast is never a vote thrown away. it represents the desires of that individual to see that candidate elected. it means nothing more and nothing less despite what you say. lol wrong. if you vote for yourself there is no way that you are going to get elected and you know it so you are doing nothing more than wasting time and your vote. i replied that while i do not like nader at all i agree with his views when hes stated many times that your type of logic is just absurd. not really. yes it is. sorry budd but once again you make a comment with nothing to back it up iow you are wrong. no i stated my opinon of your logic . . .its beyond absurd and bordering on the rediculous. like i said you are wrong. its why so many dont bother to vote at all. no its people like you that vote down the party line no matter how poor of a job your candidate does and the fact that they all lie through their teeth that stops many. if you are just going to make a bs vote why waste your and my time lol the leading but barely so supporter for voting along liberal party lines is saying to not vote party lines!!!!! i happen to like some of kerrys ideas. im not sure that he can do all of it but at least he is thinking in the right direction. i also think that bush failed in his first term which makes it easier to overlook some of the issues with kerry that i dont like. i have voted fro republican presidents at least three times. how many democratic ones did you vote for lol none of you business and it easy to claim to do something unprovable like who you voted for since we do use the secret ballot system. iow you never voted for a democrat. i didnt ask who you voted for just how many times you went to the democratic side and this answer screems zero!!! like i said budd you are a conservative puppet. are any of the issues you disagree with potentially more dangerous then all bush has done to date like opening us back up for terrorist attacks by considering them to be nuisances terrorists took oiver twice as many innocent lives as have died in the fighting and thats a nuisance yawn the conservative fear tactics dont work on intelligent people. someone is not in touch with reality . . . . . true but we talk to you anyway. what a freaking hypocrite you are troll. na that would be you newly admitted troll. lol you have admitted to trolling at least three more times than i did and to other posters but i only troll you troll-baby. im not your baby pervert stop thinking of me in that way. please show me the three times that i have admitted to being a troll troll. not voting for bush or kerry means voting for some 3rd party even if its a party of one being yourself. unless your third party has even a remote chance of winning you are really just wasting your time and the time of others waiting behind you to vote. please explain exactly what purpose doing that would serve. any vote against kerry or bush is one less vote they have to tally for the electoral college votes. sufficient votes cast for a third party candidate would get them elected. yes but only if the third party has a remote chance of winning didnt i just say that you said it and you just said it and you are still just as wrong. got it now troll nope. the problem is that the hard liners will continue to vote down the party line regardless of how bad a job their guy is doing for any justification at all as demonstrated by theguy. only to you. and you hardliner. he basically said in another thread that bush failed in every way but the bs war in iraq and that is why he is voting for him a true hardliner. put kerry in and watch us get whupped on by terrorists. lol what a complete load of crap. it is time that the american people start holding the president accountable for their job and when they fail they are replaced. thats what theguy is doing. he wants bush to finish wh

From : miles

tbone wrote which is for the most part true. if you dont want bush to serve another term then you need to vote for someone that actually has a chance of winning even if that were nader. to just cast a meaningless vote serves no purpose and is a mockery of our system. to cast a vote for someone you do not want in the wh is a mockery of our system and your statements support that contention. no its people like you that vote down the party line no matter how poor of a job your candidate does and the fact that they all lie through their teeth that stops many. if you are just going to make a bs vote why waste your and my time here you go again boner making another one of your ever so common baseless assumptions. who said i vote down the party line here in az the past 3 govs have been republican and were all horrible. one was impeached one kicked out because of felony charges against him and the last bankrupt our state through incompetance. we now have a dem. in office because of that. stop with the arrogant assumptions based on your own political bias. unless your third party has even a remote chance of winning you are really just wasting your time and the time of others waiting behind you to vote. please explain exactly what purpose doing that would serve. oh geez tbone this statement of yours shows the level of your arrogance. it is people like you that cause so many to not vote at all. so if i do not like either canidate one bit i still should vote for one of them the inner workings of the liberal mind at work here folks. as much as the right would want to believe that it simply isnt true. and if it were doesnt that show just how bad of a job he did. oh but it is true. kerry has little support of his own. only bush haters or party line dems. kerry has yet to campaign on his own 20 year record with only two weeks left. he has yet to solidify any policies of his own that he would enact if elected. only to say he would do this or that better. oh except taxes. he did say he would raise taxes. good grief. .

From : mac davis

barney wrote heres a shining example of somehow... * ted nugent did not serve. he only shoots at things that dont shoot back. yes turd nugent. recd draft call urinated and defecated in his clothes for several days then showed up for medical exam and was passed over. the turd said so himself in a music magazine interview. nugent has always been a bit of a social outcast! kerry praised such creative means to dodge the draft. .

From : the sneed

this is weird. had to do with a problem with the gauges in a 1997 dodge caravan. message does not appear. i checked for a few days to see if the message has been posted but nothing. this is the weird part when i go to google-groups and do a search for something like problem with dodge caravan gauges my original message pops up along with the messages of the two people who have responded so far! does anyone have any explanation why my original message about a caravan gauge problem does not appear in my aol group alt.autos. dodge.trucks but it appear in that group when i do a search at google-groups for dodge caravan gauge problem for instance i am not even sure if this message will be posted in my aol will see it. thanks for any help. mirse@aol.com .

From : j a m

clyde wrote on 20 oct 2004 164946 edt miles unknown@unknownspam.com wrote i had a feeling this might be true. http//www.menshelp.org/audiovideo/magicofbotox.mpg cool! very cool!! so many garys ..so.. clyde i just cant stop myself!!! http//www.toddbreer.com/p070702bushchimps.shtml jam .

From : j a m

tbone wrote iow a protest vote you do know that those are a waste of time right as they say a vote not for kerry is a vote for bush so even if you right yourself in you still voted for bush just like everyone expected. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving lol dont bet on it tommy-troll-boy. anyone can vote for anyone they choose in the us. i may write myself and my wife in for president and vp. -- budd pres. bush john kerry has changed his position on the iraq war so many times he could debate himself. b.c. and lose. please it is more than obvious what candidate you are going to vote for. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving greg just dont be so sure you are. you know i like to stir t-bone up occasionally. -- budd pres. bush john kerry has changed his position on the iraq war so many times he could debate himself. b.c. and lose. on sun 17 oct 2004 142331 gmt roy roy@home.net wrote im sorta curious do any of you folks that participate in the various political threads actually believe that you will sway anybodies vote it would seem to me that if one was so enthralled with their candidate that their time would be better spent supporting that candidate through phone banks leafleting and other campaign work. i just dont understand how going back and forth with the same 2 or 3 people are advancing your candidates election bid. roy you make a good point - but it does bother me that i am thinking of voting for the same person as budd. beekeep a protest vote is good for your karma jam .