Need some advice
From : brent d
Q: your point is well taken but your example is weaker than it could have been. in all professions you have varying skills from the best to the worst however the time spent on a job medical or mechanical will be billed at the going rate with no regard to performance. everybody expects the best talent. some expect the best talent at the lowest going rate. smart people know that in the real world satisfaction is a crap shoot. beekeeps response is unrealistic. he is correct to assume that some of us have the capability to change parts and fluids but we have little capability to diagnose in both of our examples. i am certain that he or any of our readers here does not own a drb iii any more than we own an mri machine. so we are dependant on dealers as much as we are dependant on our medical facilities. however knowledge is our friend and ignorance increases our risk for a bad experience. we have an obligation to learn as much as possible about our malady in order that we can perform a test of resonableness before we agree to a solution path. my point here is to point out that our problem is ours not the dealers or the doctorss. if we ask for service be prepared to pay for the effort without reguard to the result. we choose the service point and we choose the service with our request. this is called personal responsibility. if you dont have any get some. take the effort to learn about your problem and make good choices. take control and be responsible for your own decisions. inevitably if we demonstrate our best effort the service provider will do their best as well and the risk of a bad experience will be drastically reduced. steve i had a chrysler concorde serviced by the dealer who told me some things werent due for service while others were and i felt comfortable with his conclusions based on my basic knowledge of autos. i also spent some money to have a few other things done because i trusted them from the prior experience. however i had a dodge dakota back to its dealer and they told me it was repaired for the same problem 5 times just weeks apart. repeatedly they would return the truck not repaired.warranty they never got me to pay for service or recommend them. .
Replies:
From : brent d
brent d wrote ever since the release of the new cummins common rail i have been repairing many of its issues with a new injector or two. a majority of the injectors i have replaced were either in cylinders 3 or 4. i just wanted to know from others if this is a common issue or maybe localized to the region i work. any feedback on this issue is appreciated as i am looking for the cause of these failures rather than the correction of them. brent master ase and gold certified chrysler technician isnt 3 and 4 the central point of exhaust collection. are the ports somewhat short where the back pressure would be greater in that area. if you would put an engine on a dino and labor it some check the temperature variations between cylinders you might find that #3 & 4 will be running hotter than the rest. this problem occurred in an aircraft recip engine rears ago. the exhaust collector ring was modified and corrected the problem. -- bill p. just dog & me .
From : brent d
my dealership has a sign up that states they charge for the number of hours that is listed in some kind of manual that tells how long the repair should take. my uncle is a mechanic and familiar with these types of books. he says they are crap and give you like 5 hours to do something that should only take 2. so why would i pay more per hour at a dealership and have to pay for more hours worked -michele ; -------------------------------------------------- fair question because the independents use the same books. theyre called flat rate manuals. just because your uncle could do a five hour job in two hours doesnt mean the next technician can - it might take him four. how is any shop supposed to estimate a repair then since every technician can do a repair in different time - quoting becomes a hassle. flat rate gives a set time of repair regardless of what technician does it. it is the only way to estimate repairs. as a consumer that was quoted five hours for a repair and it only took three; you would say only charge me for the three hours. what if the repairs took seven hours due to unforseen rust corrosion broken bolts etc. should you be contacted in the middle of the repair and told its going to cost more than estimated flat rate is a give and take for both the consumer and technician. sometimes you win sometimes you lose. flat rate is the only way to for any shop to begin estimating a repair. after all why should you pay more on a repair because you got a slower technician while the next customer pays less for the same repair - his tech was a little faster. brent .
From : brent d
jerry read my response to robert it might clarify a thing or two. you are right i have spun off on customer relations. i want their responses and feelings toward dealerships - while responding with information and examples as to why dealers make certain choices. i was a shop foreman for three years this would explain my direct relations with customers. when i left for another dealer and i did this to protect customers - ask why if you are interested a large portion of the customers i worked with followed me. i had helped them understand why we were making the choices we made why the vehicle failed and then proceeded to repair it personally. they seemed to enjoy it. brent .
From : jerry
roy roy@home.net writes weak moment maybe. while im at it how about the 03 04s any inherent problems what transmissions are used in those years early 03s had the 47re. mine is a july 03 build dually with the 48re and 4.10s. the 48re feels strong. i like it. in addition ot the other minor problems mentioned there is the 2k rpm vibration in the 03-present models. it mostly occurs in swb 2500 4wd models although not everyone has it. mine is a 2wd lwb 3500 and it has the vibe. typical fixes are drive shaft replacement steel to aluminum and carrier bearing shimming. in one case i know of they replaced the rear axle. btw dana and daimler parted ways. aam is under there now. mine has been in four times to attempt a fix. up to 65mph it is smooth. after that the vibe is present. drive shafts and u-joints have been replaced. bearing shimmed and un-shimmed. none of which helped mine. chrysler warranty rep and field service rep drove it last thursday and as of now they will not allow the dealer to do any more work on my driveline. they claim its an exhaust drone to which they say chrysler is working on a fix. theyre full of bs. the mechanic told me he still believes its the driveline. after all at 75mph coasting in neutral the drone is still there. go fugure. i had a vibe in my 2k 4x4 went the whole route and ended up straight pipeing it. no more vibe. before you purchase drive it. drive it a loooong time at 65-80mph before you sign anything. listen to and feel for any vibrations in the seat arm rest and the pedals. truck otherwise has been flawless. good to know. it will be one of those 2 hour test drives. aw .
From : bigironram
it twas a good game... denny cmbba .
From : jerry
stuck temporarily detained... sorry .
From : steve w
thenewguy wrote brent just curious. are you related to tbone ------------------------------------------------------ since i am not familier with tbone his personality and postings; i assume you will state the nature of your sarcastic post so i can respond to it. i have found thus far that those who are ill-educated in dealership principles are the first to be sarcastic and do not respond to the issue at hand. they are simply the whiney customer at the front desk or the independent that knows so much they borrow from the dealer. brent master ase and gold certified chrysler technician .
From : brent d
every time i see a body cut apart like that they weld cross supports into it to maintain the shape and prevent collapse or damaging distortion. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving ok. ill make the assumption that this ford rotted like most of them mainly the bottom. instead of patching it with individual panels how about finding a cab that is in better shape and cutting the bottom off and welding it to your cab about like clipping on another vehicle. not really hard to do as long as you measure carefully. then once it is welded together clean it up good and undercoat it good to stop it from happening again. -- steve williams ------------------------------------------------------- thanks steve. this is a viable option but creates one problem . . finding a floor that is not rusted. if i did find a good donor cab i am not an expert body repair technician. i worry about the body spreading once the original floor is cut away. this can result in unnecessary pulling and stretching on panels to realign. would it be worth it to tack weld cross supports inside the cab to prevent this before cutting any advice is appreciated. brent master ase and gold certified chrysler technician .
From : brent d
thanks everyone for being positive in the last post. i appreciate you allowing me to ask here. also apologies for not knowing yiddish. im looking at buying a 1994 ram-250 at a local used car lot the going price is about $5995. im looking at this van specifically because it comes fully equipped with a wheelchair lift which i need. the van has 113600 miles on it but everything looks fairly good. it needs new tires but that seems a trifle compared other things like the engine. im going to have a mechanic look at the engine before i go any further but i was wondering if anyone here could offer some general advice about dodge vans. on average is ten years very old for a dodge van are the odds in my favor that itll last five more years are parts for a ten year old van hard to come by the price doesnt worry me. its the age and mileage that im unsure of and any suggestions or words of wisdom would be appreciated. thanks! andrew burton - tuglyraisin at aol dot com felecia station on harvestgain - jarod godel in second life .
From : brent d
while im at it how about the 03 04s any inherent problems what transmissions are used in those years nope - in fact they typically get better mileage than the 04.5s and above the 600 or now the 610 engines. for standard transmissions it was the nv5600 or the nv4500 used behind the standard output 235hp - blech engines. i think youre in one of those ca-emissions-type states right if so you probably wont see many 305hp the high output version engines around. theres nothing wrong with the so engines per se - its just that almost 100hp compared to the latest engine kinda hurts. in the automatic realm the sos came with the 47re up until the mid-year of 03 possibly not until 04. at that point the 48re was the only transmission available whether so or ho. models were and are available with either an nv271 manually-shifted transfer case or the nv273 electronically-shifted case. theyre essentially the same case just that the 273 has an electric solenoid motor in place of the mechanical linkage of the 271. theres no longer a cad on the front axle - the axle is always engaged. theres some good and some bad to this - but ill tell you one thing... the instantaneous 4x4 engagement is nice... no more fumbling with the throttle to get the front axle to engage when youre stuck in a snow drift .
From : tbone
drgn1400@webtv.net brent d wrote there is plenty of training available to the independent shops that is equal to or better than the stuff provided by the oems. the sublet -might- increase the bill but it still wouldnt necessarily be higher than what the bill might have been had the customer gone to the dealership service department instead of the independent. are you claiming that you dont flag any extra time for re-flashing a tcm or pcm if the job does come into -your- dealership then there would be more good independents also no ----------------------------------------------------- how do you judge that your training is better because ive attended plenty of both over the last 34 years. this would be a hard claim to substantiate. no different than the substantiating needed for the things you claim to be true. remember that aftermarket training on a vehicle is released long after the dealership technicians have fought long and hard to discover manufacturing flaws that are simply given to the independants. nothing is given to the independents. people assume that dealer techs have the advantage of tsbs to repair vehicles how false. youre right its false false because i have the same access to those tsbs and im an independent. of course the cost of those tsbs comes directly out of my bank account but i know for a fact that you cant and never will be able to find a usenet post by me complaining about it. remember the information provided in the tsbs that you use were discovered primarily by technicians who discovered the issues and provided information to chrysler. not all tsb research comes from dealership technicians and it certainly doesnt all come from you. this is a claim an independant can not make. you have no way of knowing one way or the other. this simply means a dealer tech works his ass off for a loss in pay so and independant can receive his information for next to nothing in the form of a tsb. the price i and other independents pay is not next to nothing. and if the working your ass off for a loss in pay part bothers you so much change jobs. you should be thanking the dealers. i do thank the dealers i thank them every time they miss a diagnosis every time they miss the worn out track bar and tie rod ends. as for telling an independant no thank you; i wont do that. but youll come here and cry about it. they are still a fellow technician and i never turn my back on them. i just hope they remember that a dealer helped them and asked for nothing in return. then youre getting exactly what you wanted so where is the problem yes i charge customers for reprograms. oh good because for a minute there you were making it sound like you did re-flashes for free and that was somehow going to work to the customers advantage. it is considered into the module replacement. at the dealer it may only cost an extra .2 hours while you will pay the dealer to have it done at the minimum shop rate of .5 or 1.0. this will make your bill higher. not if the overall repair bill is hundreds of dollars less than what the dealerships are charging for the same repair. the difference between your repair shop and my repair shop isnt what you or i know what equipment we have or how many hours of training we receive the difference is i am not working to finance all of that new car inventory sitting out in front collecting dust hoping someone will buy it. the bottom line brent is; nothing is going to change as long as you let others do the controlling. you can either stay where you are keep giving it away to the krauts and accept that this is your lot in life. or you can change the situation to where you call the shots. been there done that over the course of the 70s the 80s and the 90s. yeah it took me a while to wise up. .
From : jerry
maxpower wrote i dont pay for any medical treatments and i still expect my doctor to be a hell of a lot better than the mechanic at my local dodge garage. you think people dont bitch when doctors screw up i guess you have never heard of malpractice. the evolution of man changes so slightly over 1000 yrs the automobile changes every 1 to 2 yrs. i disagree with your reasoning. medical treatments have changed drastically in the past 1000 years. nothing like a good blood-letting to cure a diasease. nurse pass the leaches. you think people dont bitch when doctors screw up i guess you have never heard of malpractice. they can run test after test and the cust/insurance pays for it they call there check out fee a consultation visit in which we pay..... we call it check out time in which the customer bitches about..if the doctor makes a wrong diagnosis they simply prescribe a new test after test after test until they get it right or ship you off to a specialist and then it starts over.....hmm go figure. people dont complain when insurance is paying for it. if i had to pay for unnecessary medical tests you can bet id bitch about it. health insurance is the same as warranties. if you are fixing my truck under warranty i dont care how many tests you have to run in order to fix it. im not paying for the labor. the only thing im concerned with is how long i have to wait for it. dealer service departments will not send vehicles to a specialist you are the specialist. evolution of man has nothing to do with medical treatment. i agree. the evolution of man has nothing to do with medical treatment. the evolution of technology changed medical treatment. the evolution of technology is the basis of the whole discussion. without the advance in technology there would be nothing new to learn on cars every couple of years. in fact there wouldnt be any cars. i wasnt talking about medical treatment im talking about the body.... how often does it change compared to the common automobile the human body hasnt changed much in the past 1000 years. so what are you saying todays medical personnel require no more training than a doctor did before the norman conquest of england dodge mechanics have to know more than doctors because car models change every couple of years and the human body doesnt .
From : dale yonz
regular gas or does it require 93 doubtful i will go gas but id like to know cover the options. the 5.7s got a knock sensor so you can run 87 if you wanted to but its going to retard the timing a good amount. if youre considering a hemi you better make sure to take a nice long test drive in one. coming from a cummins you may be surprised at the lack of grunt. i looked at the figures. gotta stay with the cummins. roy .
From : brent d
because my comment pertained to only the section quoted for christs sakes. in case it flew over your head which apparently it did youre a cry baby little troll and have no one fooled. most likely most of the bitching the service manager hears at your place of work is you. jerry ----------------------------------------------------- nothing flew over my head. the one concept you seem to be missing is the purpose on the ng. to discuss matters and issues from all perspectives. i seem to be doing this while all you do is flame. the purpose of the ng flew over your head. quite honestly my service manager and i along with the other techs work great as a team with zero bitching. i wouldnt expect you to know that though. brent master ase and gold certified chrysler technician .
From : beekeep
ok i was fishing for anything bad about ceramic brakes on an earlier post. so i might as well ask the group about all brakes then. what are the ups and downs about all the kinds of brakes that are made what should i get. yes i have front anti-lock and real drum. i wish i could get drums on front but thats another story. i do quite a bit of off road and trailer hauling. so all info would be wonderfull. and as for the ford comercial lattely about no anti-lock brakes and cromple zones. its kinda funny my trailers do. where are they getting there info from at the addvertising department. just a personal funny. patrick .
From : steve w
bitch to the doctors the same way you do to a service manager. isnt your health worth more than what you paid for the vehicle isnt your health worth fixing right the first time compared to your truck after all doctors expect their highly complicated vehicles diagnosed and repaired correctly the first time. why shouldnt we expect the same from them with our health; dont we pay more in medical than vehicles brent master ase and gold certified chrysler technician you apparently dont know me. i have bitched to doctors lawyers and indian chiefs. i feel one of the nations biggest problems is the fact people are too easy. they know little so they dont bitch enough and would rather accept what is told to them rather than research it and find out they have been duped. the majority of people would rather pay the bill than have a confrontation. on the flip side i praise the people that treat me fairly and honestly. i spread the word on their performance trying to get them more business and such. i have wrote letters to their bosses commending them as well as complaint letters if they screw up. if people would complain/praise more this would be a better world. i call them as i see them. hank masterbitcher - .
From : mike simmons
is it kosher to ask about ram vans here -andy as long as your a card carrying republican you can ask anything. -- moparman---remove clothes to reply! --scud coordinates 32.61204 north 96.92993 west-- .
From : steve lusardi
i cant do another winter without 4x4. this was the first in almost 30 years. the lightning with blizzaks all around was good but... i havent kept up much with new things beyond 2000. what is the way to go has to be a cummins. although ill hang a plow on it i wont be doing much residential plowing so a standard would fit as well as the auto. im also torn between a 2500 and a 3500. in case i should buy a fifth wheel i want to be able to haul it. any thoughts mike tom rabbit anybody roy more questions. with the hemi what trans comes with it any problems w/it can you use regular gas or does it require 93 doubtful i will go gas but id like to know cover the options. iirc the 48re is also with the gas motors and has been trouble free. the 5.7 runs on the 87 octane fuel. its a 5-45rfe carrot breath! ^ mike furry face thought of another reason why it has to be srw. duallys use a 9 blade too much up front for a comfort margin. go to plowsite.com and youll read that using the 9 footers or the blizzard blades that extend from 8ft to 10 ft are becoming the new rage. you just have to give up the notions that come with old age and get with the new programs.. vbg also my friend you gotta be careful what you talk about on a public group. some of the ladies that frequent here may take the too much up front for a comfort statement to mean something else other than your belly that i know youre talking about..... gbmfg ff roy .