Mormon Lies

From : stormin mormon

Q: i think i recall seeing on the cummins website that you shouldnt idle for any longer than 15 minutes. wish i could find it again but for some reason it is sticking in my head. -- ------------------------------------------ laszlo almasi ----cool toys formerly carolina watercraft works ----mack daddy trailers ----ice angels 2006 quad cab 3500 w/cummins i recently started having problems with apparent missing low power and fuel mileage. i took the truck back to the dealer to resolve the problem as i only have 2500 miles on it. the response from the dealer appeared very vague and left me uncomfortable. when i went to pick up the truck i made sure i found the service manager to get a better explanation of the problem. i could tell from talking to him it was a problem that was frusterating to him also. the report i get is that i let the truck idle too much. with some recent design changes in the last year or so the cummins trucks apparently shouldnt be left to idle much. it was reported to me an acceptable idle was about 20% of running time where-as my truck showed about 33% idle time while running. apparently idling to much seems to gum up the injector system. cummins wont warranty the problem. the solution according to the dealer is a fuel system cleaning or flush or what-ever. the service guy let me know that cummins didnt consider it their problem so the dealers were having to eat the cost of the fuel system cleaning to the tune of $250. the guy told me this was the third late model cummins diesel to come in in a month with the same problem. according to him cummins was aware of the problem was working on a solution but was being vague in acknowledging the problem as to not accept responsibility. i mentioned to the guy that i thought diesels were generally used in situations where long idle times were normal and that the owners manual encourages owners to let the engines idle in order to properly coold the turbo. i mentioned that in town driving involved lots of idle times. he said cummins response to that was that if thats the type of driving one does you should buy a gas vehicle. anyone have any opinion or input i like my cummins/dodge but its looking like after 2500 miles i might have picked the wrong vehicle. sazrac .

Replies:

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote hear hear! nate has given more evidence than miles by far. lol!! discovery and about.com saying they have a policy! too funny!! .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote well now you think that miles who is calling on you for specific proof really will provide you with specific proof i doubt it. the only time i asked for his proof was in response to his own requests. i really dont care if he does or doesnt. its the hypocrisy of it all. .

From : nathan in montana

lets see what my other wife says and ill get back to you. that would make a good t-shirt. - -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

it sure would keep the thread alive .....perhaps ill wait until things start to fizzle. - -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote not only does church policy say it about.com as well as wikipedia that ive just quoted you in my last post! says they do it. great. should be easy for you to show lots of examples recently of them doing just that. or are you going to tell me they keep it hidden from public knowledge .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote ive given you 3 sources now that support my position 2 of which you can verify yourself and 1 you stated was more credible than the other. just statements devoid of any evidence. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote you didnt answer my question. have you anything verifiable that would impugn the integrity of about.com hmm...lets see here. you want proof that someone doesnt do something how about proof that they do .

From : stormin mormon

now youre telling me what my standards are thats a hoot. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote well have to view it and get back to you. why if a website says its so then it must be so per your standards. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote is it only jews who answer a question with a question the basis of your question made a basic assumption to which i challenged. to answer your above question id have to defer that to someone of the jewish faith if you know any. .

From : miles

tbone wrote they are probably more to the left than others but nowhere near as bad a fox. thats just your left wing bias talking. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote id rather watch fox than some of the left liberal stuff that goes over the airwaves. same here but i do watch several. they all have their pluses and minues. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote which corporations do you think the lds church owns deseret for starters the main source for utah. they also own bonneville international which has businesses in financial communications satellite and more. the whole list is rather large and includes radio stations banks hotels restaurants etc. .

From : miles

edward ohare edwardohare@nospam.yahoo.com.invalid wrote could it be theyll have to **pay** someone to take chrysler chryslers dealer network alone is of great value. dc didnt take full advantage of it. my fear is some chinese car company will and then all they will sell will be chinese built cars. id rather buy a honda or toyota built in na. .

From : miles

tbone wrote you really do make me laugh miles. you are so biased that you simply cannot see the forest thru the trees. lesse see here tbone. im biased because i see the bias from the media on both sides while you see it only on one go figure. .

From : nathan in montana

stuff isnt just by default absolute truth if its on the ol inner-net ........but yet i should accept your good word over about.com wiki as well as published policy and interviews ive seen for myself with people who were excommunicated. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote oh yeah thats it. rolling eyes well nate you have repeatedly supported your claims because of a couple opinions listed on media websites and told me its accepted as fact because of such. that says it all! .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote ah but its a credible source. define credible. because its the nytimes owned website good grief. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote i think its about success and using money to do good. and make quite a few church leaders very wealthy. .

From : nathan in montana

no more empty than using some obsure about.com article as fact. you really just dont get it. oh well. i didnt use it as fact. i used it as a valid point of reference. have you anything that would give anyone a reasonable doubt about the integrity of about.com -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

well at least hes accurate. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. .......now go ahead and call me a mean name again. if nothing else youre predictable. - -- nathan in montanahttp//concealedcarryforum.comhttp//1911talk.comhttp//gl ockcarry.com nice duck again. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote the everlasting covenant is temple marriage. not polygamy. look up the mormon views on celestial marriage differences between men and women. what happens in the afterlife they are clearly not the same. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote during the post-manifesto period many mormons felt the need to continue the principle even though they knew they would be excommunicated from the church as a result. they continue it through the afterlife quite clearly. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote from http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/mormonfundamentalism today the lds church will excommunicate any of its members who advocate or practice plural marriage the question isnt what the policy is. its whether they actively enforce it or not. the public isnt interested in going after polygamists at least not in the state of utah. .

From : nathan in montana

the trouble starts when they say the other religion is wrong. thank you for clarifying your position now i understand your intent and i agree completely with your statement. .......and you didnt even have to be mean about it. - -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote your reluctance to accept any source of information contrary to your own beliefs is telling. a statement saying somebody does something doesnt mean diddly. there have been a few cases of excommunication over other issues and they always make the in utah. its a big deal when someone is excommunicated in utah. .

From : nathan in montana

it wasnt just an idea that could or couldnt be followed. it was the only way according to smith. even if i accept everything you say at face value without question it was still legal as well as considered socially and morally accepted at that time. no harm no foul. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

your timeline is way off on the matter. please post the proper timeline. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

i think hed be hard pressed to find changes in the articles of faith. but he doesnt seem to have any problem making accusations. theyre actually dang decent rules to live by no matter what religion one claims. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote doesnt change that it sounds anti-mormon. just cause you have ten dogs doesnt change that bark that sounds like a dobie. i see. disagreeing with your views means im anti-mormon. good grief!! .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote i missed it also. that doesnt surprise me. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote youre right. miles didnt provide evidence. neither have you. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote nathan and miles will accomplish that. count yourself too! .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote the lds church name was given in a revelation. its in the doctrine and covenants but i cant remember which section. sydney rigdon is the one who pushed smith to change it and remove the name of christ. not sure who later added it back in but the church has had 3 different names now. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote ive seen a lot of people and web sites accusing mormons of being not christian. who cares i know what we are. that was my point. each lives life their own way. the trouble starts when they say the other religion is wrong. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote guess i ought to dig up the d and c section. anyhow the church name was given through revelation. whos revelation is that smith called it one thing sydney rigdon urged him later to change it then still later it was changed a 3rd time. all by differing revelations .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote so now its my fault huh i never blamed you. you asked a question regarding jews. i replied to go ask one if you need an answer. that confuses you .

From : miles

wolfie wrote all the glass in the new maxie had some tint to it. not enough to suit me though. and to hear that ive been the first to do something is simply astonishing to me. thank you. ;- so is this tinting on the entire windshield or just an anti-glare strip across the top i hope the latter!! .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote nothing exists today in the same manner that it existed 100 years ago somewhat true. people slowly change and religions evolve but the fundamental founding beliefs do not. this is not true of the lds where the very core revelations for which it was formed were ended abruptly. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote wrong. the mormon church simply changed their policy. they didnt form any new church. those who wanted the new church founded the flds and literally dozens of other spin-offs. id just bet their original trademark is still valid. a name or a trademark does not make a religion nor a church. the original lds church is gone in my view. that church was entirely formed around the revelations of one man. the very foundation the heart the core and the essence of the religion is gone! it was not just a small simple change in policy. its an entirely new religion with little basis to smiths views. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote now miles be fair. if they didnt know about it what could they do about it once they became aware of it however denounced it. i bet they excommunicated them too. re-read what i said. the family was known in the public view. the had run stories on them. the church did nothing. it wasnt until the underage women were found out that both the law and the church did something. .

From : yabahoobs

read the article! -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. did the cop hit the gunman .

From : stormin mormon

tried to start it yesterday morning after an ice storm the maintainence light has been on any suggestions thanks! .

From : miles

wolfie wrote but this stuff was $150.00 for the windshield piece alone. so it doesnt take long to add up. you had the windshield tinted i always try to get a top quality film. being in arizona im more interested in blocking out heat and uv than light. im not sure but i thought the metallic tints are better at blocking uv and heat. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote fine. since nobody owns a patent on the word anyone can determine for themselves what they are. the mormons are christians. to them they are. my point to which you argued still stands. i stated that to other christian based faiths in the world the mormons are not christians. again im not bashing anyone nor taking sides. just stating a fact. .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote its simple anti-mormon sentiment born of ignorance and passed down from generation to generation. its not different as anti-semitism only not as global. how do you figure. its very clear that mormons do not have the same beliefs as to who or what jesus is/was as other christian based faiths. specifically what are you referencing the mormon faith can be summed up in the 13 articles of faith and if the other christian religions dont believe in them then it is their own short-coming. please give me a valid reason to hate the real mormons. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote not what i said! it doesnt exist nearly to the extent you present it within the mormon church because the mormon church abolished polygamy 117 years ago. any polygamists you find within the lds religion are the rare exception and if the church is made aware of it they are excommunicated. you have stated it does not exist...period. now youre saying it does but rare. im not saying it does. im saying if you do find any it is a rare exception and in violation of the church laws. the church does not excommunicate anyone its aware of. please substantiate that statement if you can. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote thats not true at all miles. one segment broke away from the lds church but the lds church stood as they always had prior to. they didnt form a new church they were the original and still are. the fundamentalists that split formed the new church to suit their polygamist needs. they very much did form an entirely new church. the fundamentalists could be said to not have formed anything new. they kept up with the very same religious views as always. it is what you call the real lds who changed not the fundamentalists. a new religion was formed that is no longer based on the core revelations of smith. wrong. the mormon church simply changed their policy. they didnt form any new church. those who wanted the new church founded the flds and literally dozens of other spin-offs. id just bet their original trademark is still valid. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote if i quote you the utah law does that mean its enforced the church doesnt enforce it any more than the law does. do you personally know of a polygamist marraige within the lds church personally know. but there was a case here in az a few years ago. they were an active member. when it became known they had underage women were involved the law stepped in. the mormon church based in mesa az then issued a standard public statement denouncing it and claiming no knowledge. contrary to such claims the family was known about by the public for several years. stations had ran stories on the family. what was not known early on was the underage involvement. now miles be fair. if they didnt know about it what could they do about it once they became aware of it however denounced it. i bet they excommunicated them too. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote not if you look to the mormon doctrine. their very first article of faith establishes them as christians. anyone can declare themselves a christian. my point was that each religion has differing criteria for such. fine. since nobody owns a patent on the word anyone can determine for themselves what they are. the mormons are christians. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote the lds church is not the same as the flds church. the current day lds church is not the same as the lds of over 100 years ago. that church is gone its leaders split and two or more religions were formed to become what we have today. nothing exists today in the same manner that it existed 100 years ago. this is completely aside from the point that the flds church and the lds church are not one in the same. you cannot condemn the mormons for what the flsd church is doing. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

on feb 15 427 pm miles n...@nopers.com wrote wolfie wrote my initial post states that very clearly. my second post reiterates with an emphasis on the cost. judging from your use of a few extra question marks it is my guess that you didnt misunderstand what i said but that a. i am the first person in your life that has ever tinted a windshield or b. you have an opinion youre just dying to express. my moneys on b first off youre dang argumentative for no reason arent ya not as a rule. no offense intended. ive been waiting for my tranny to get done for too many days now. second youd be wrong. fortunately im not a betting man. even more fortunately im accustomed to being wrong. ive never seen anyone tint a windshield other than a small strip across the top to cut glare. most newer cars already have some tinting there from the factory. all the glass in the new maxie had some tint to it. not enough to suit me though. and to hear that ive been the first to do something is simply astonishing to me. thank you. ;- wolfie .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote its simple anti-mormon sentiment born of ignorance and passed down from generation to generation. its not different as anti-semitism only not as global. how do you figure. its very clear that mormons do not have the same beliefs as to who or what jesus is/was as other christian based faiths. this is not an anti-mormon statement im making. i am in any way attempting to say who is right or wrong. theyre very different. .

From : yabahoobs

i also found a thread on the dtr forum on how to build your own fast idle system for the 2nd gen diesel rams. http//www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.phpt=123156 -- ken .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote not what i said! it doesnt exist nearly to the extent you present it within the mormon church because the mormon church abolished polygamy 117 years ago. any polygamists you find within the lds religion are the rare exception and if the church is made aware of it they are excommunicated. you have stated it does not exist...period. now youre saying it does but rare. the church does not excommunicate anyone its aware of. they ignore it just like the law does. the general public is not interested in enforcing polygamy laws and that extends to the practice of the church. .

From : miles

wolfie wrote the shop that we take our stuff to is the same one used by the state police and local sheriffs dept. and we have always stipulated that we are not interested in exceeding the legal limits. what i find interesting is that it was law enforcement through their use of surveillance vans and the need for darkened glass that first promoted the use of extreme window tinting on cars. but i *want* a leo to be able to see into my car at night if they need to so its not that extreme. far less than is allowable in your state. in az the law allows one to limo tint the back doors and rear window. the limitations are on the front doors. im not much for the ultra dark limo tint anyways. it blocks light but doesnt do much for heat and uv. no tinting is allowed on the windshield except a small strip across the upper part. the normal field of vision area cant be tinted at all. .

From : miles

i have a 2002 dodge ram 1500 4x4 and i am getting rear end noise. you will start to hear it at 30 mph and gets real noticable @ 50 but at 70 it is less noticable. it does not seem to change in pitch with speed. it is like a hum.... when putting under load is when you will hear it. at coasting it all but goes away. there is 87000 mi on it. any ideas i was told that it may be a pinion bearing... could it be that just there is to much lash .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote not if you look to the mormon doctrine. their very first article of faith establishes them as christians. anyone can declare themselves a christian. my point was that each religion has differing criteria for such. .

From : nathan in montana

roy wrote i also found a thread on the dtr forum on how to build your own fast idle system for the 2nd gen diesel rams. http//www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.phpt=123156 thats cool. i wish ya would find a way to make my nav system take me around nyc instead of through it.bg roy i too use the old analog nav system. i dont know much about yours. there isnt any way to add stops along the way nope i called alpine they make them for dc. miles has a revised disc he says he will take a look at his and let me know. but it dont look good. roy ken makes my garmin look better and better.....now if the damn thing would stay stuck to the windshield. -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs. .

From : nathan in montana

roy wrote did the cop hit the gunman i havent heard them say one way or another. it appears the off duty cop pinned the gunman into one part of the mall preventing the gunman from moving around and killing more. the gunman wasnt shot until other police arrived. .

From : nathan in montana

so nate how many slaves do you have have you stopped killing jews clubbing baby seals converting heathen tribes in africa colonizing australia exploring the moon and stealing land from american indians im a bad bad man! .....er wait the 2nd article of faith would hold me responsible only for my wrong-doings so i guess im in the clear. - -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

on feb 15 604 am stormin mormon cayoung61- &spambloc...@hotmail.com wrote this is why we need concealed carry! if it had not been for this off-duty officers concealed weapon many more people would have been killed and seriously wounded! off-duty officer called hero after utah rampage an off-duty officer celebrating an early valentines day with his wife repeatedly fired at a gunman who killed five people and wounded four at a shopping mall and saved the lives of numerous others the police chief said tuesday.http//www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17124042/from/et/ -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. . glad i live in a right-to-carry state. and i do. actually you live ina right to carry country; see us const amend two. wolfie some states dont follow the law. ken .

From : stormin mormon

so nate how many slaves do you have have you stopped killing jews clubbing baby seals converting heathen tribes in africa colonizing australia exploring the moon and stealing land from american indians sorry couldnt resist; all those white man things of the past. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. youre blaming modern day mormons for a practice that was abolished 117 years ago you might as well blame me for slavery while youre at it. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : yabahoobs

on feb 15 604 am stormin mormon cayoung61- &spambloc...@hotmail.com wrote this is why we need concealed carry! if it had not been for this off-duty officers concealed weapon many more people would have been killed and seriously wounded! off-duty officer called hero after utah rampage an off-duty officer celebrating an early valentines day with his wife repeatedly fired at a gunman who killed five people and wounded four at a shopping mall and saved the lives of numerous others the police chief said tuesday.http//www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17124042/from/et/ -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. . glad i live in a right-to-carry state. and i do. actually you live ina right to carry country; see us const amend two. wolfie .

From : idaspode

this is why we need concealed carry! if it had not been for this off-duty officers concealed weapon many more people would have been killed and seriously wounded! agreed. but only after a background check and firearm course. yawn your point like the saying is fences make good neighbors if everyone had a gun unlike in dc where only criminals had guns .

From : nathan in montana

you might as well blame me for slavery while youre at it. you inhumane monster. lol. .

From : nathan in montana

we are not holding the modern church responsible for what some freaks do down in the desert. were not assigning blame. youre blaming modern day mormons for a practice that was abolished 117 years ago you might as well blame me for slavery while youre at it. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

tbone wrote that kind of crap exists everywhere miles so what exactly is your point nathan says it does not exist because the church has a written policy against it. not what i said! it doesnt exist nearly to the extent you present it within the mormon church because the mormon church abolished polygamy 117 years ago. any polygamists you find within the lds religion are the rare exception and if the church is made aware of it they are excommunicated. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

the real mormon church is no longer in my view. when the church split two new churches were formed. thats not true at all miles. one segment broke away from the lds church but the lds church stood as they always had prior to. they didnt form a new church they were the original and still are. the fundamentalists that split formed the new church to suit their polygamist needs. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

these two families dutifully marched off to church every sunday. what church this is the very core of our disagreement. i know polygamy exists openly within the flds church. the only thing im saying is thats a completely different church from the lds church. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

if i quote you the utah law does that mean its enforced the church doesnt enforce it any more than the law does. do you personally know of a polygamist marraige within the lds church -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

yes. be aware however that mormons are also christians. thats debatable on which christian group or individual. not if you look to the mormon doctrine. their very first article of faith establishes them as christians. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : greg o

on sun 11 feb 2007 092717 -0600 fat ass fred fatass@mlc-group.net wrote on sun 11 feb 2007 012158 gmt theguy@whatever.net wrote lol i was just gonna stay out of it but i was thinking the same thing. i agree with nate all the way but fat ass fred didnt start this deal about mormon lies.............in fact im not sure that fat ass fred isnt just an aka for the fool that did. no i can assure you i didnt start it. i use the alias because you post one single message with your primary address and your spammed for life.... might be why when i switch to synchronet my sysop account gets spammed heavily.... any way depending on the software im running at the time i once kept a fatass@mlc-group.net open. i dont think i have any aliases in winserver right now though. i was told somewhere that if you use a fake e-mail address you have to use it for a domain you either have permission to use or that you own.... well you are wide open for a bunch of akas fat ass. bigot number two would be a good one. moron number two would be another. .

From : nosey

on sun 11 feb 2007 072533 -0500 nosey kfrei43@removethis.hotmail.com wrote nosey wrote roy wrote okay the rabbit led me astray on the sb. of course it was a team i knew nothing about. im still amazed that the qb still has a job. so how about a pick for the bud shoot out tonight i know only a few of us watch but im out of ideas. denny hamlin i should have known better than to pick a denny to win. -- ken maybe hamlin will pick up everready for a sponser and wear a pink bunny suit! beekeep .

From : beekeep

on sat 10 feb 2007 201220 -0500 roy roy@home.net wrote thank you sir!! much appreciated. roy reposted and updated from alt.autos.4x4.chevy-trucks by roys request. snoman says... you know i pick and choose what i respond to because it is not about being shown up but rather not stooping as low as you do especail since i see that you posted 5 responces in a little over a hour in this thread. you must really be awfull insecure. i actually feel abit sorry for you and some of your cohorts at times because it appears that you may never grow up. ----------------- thesnoblower.com here are defenses snoball falls back on everytime he knows hes lost the argument... aside from disappearing. 1. using the child defense 11 times. 1 such a child 2 you are such a child 3 and act like a child 4 you are such a child again 5 to act like a child 6 you must have been a troubled child 7 is such a inmature child 8 you act like a spoiled child 9 stop acting like a spoiled child 10 uou act like a child 11 what a child!keep it up is it makes you feel good andf gives you a cheap thrill like you have never had a typo. 2. used the insecure defense 19 times. 1 you must really be awfull insecure. 2 just like the law of insecure posters causing problems 3 you must be very insecure. 4 these are the ones that are so insecure and threatened 5 you must be really insecure. 6 how this stuff work must really make you feel insecure 7 cause trouble to make yourselfs feel less insecure. 8 what ever makes you feel less insecure 9 you must be awful insecure. 10 and it makes you really insecure 11 you must beone very insecure person! 12 children like yourself that are insecure add to the child list 13 you must be a very insecure person. 14 we do understand that you are very insecure. must have a mouse in his pocket. 15 you must be a very insecure person. 16 boy sombody is really insecure here 17 you must be realy insecure or something. 18 one it show how insecure your really are and 19 you must be realy insecure. 3. using grow up defense 9 times. 1 it appears that you may never grow up. 2 if you want to see a half wit look in the mirror. grow up 3 i am still waiting for you to grow up. 5 some kids never grow up. rec.outdoors.rv-travel 6 we can all hope that you do grow up one day as remote as it seems. that mouse again. 7 i wonder if you will ever grow up 8 do us all a favor *** and grow up some. 9 grow up and get a life! 10 we all hope you do grow up one day mouse in his pocket and finally 4. using the inmature defense 9 times. yeah im not sure what inmature is either. 1-3 ...drool/dribble coming out of a inmature childs mouth that serves no purpose and is unwanted just like most of his inmature statments. you too should think before you try to pass judgement and type because you observations are incorrect. i have a background in electrical and mechnical engineering and a mcse. if it is mechanical i can tell you how and why it does or does not work and calculate yeild strength of axles if you want if i have a weakness it is prehaps i get too complex with some of my explanations and wrongly assume that someone can understand the obvious when inded they infact cannot. also it is a classic inmature responce for... 4 you are the inmature child here 5 keep up the inmature work!!! 6 is such a inmature child 7 you forgot to add that these inmature attempts 8 but you are doing a great job show the web how inmature your are and how threatened you must feel that 9 it is so sad to be so inmature and hide in the shadows. he never got immature right as it never turned up in a search of his post. this took less than 30 minutes to compile. if i ever get enough time to do it the next list will be snoballs follies. yeah that will take long time to compile... might hit a upload limit posting that. all you are really proving is how childish you are. anyone with a unbiased veiw can see that in you vain attempt to try to hurt me you are only making yourself look worse. knock yourself out even though it is not have the effect you want it too. anyone with a unbiased view and simple intelligence can see that you are truly a idiot. ----------------- thesnoman.com .

From : tom lawrence

on sat 10 feb 2007 201220 -0500 roy roy@home.net wrote thank you sir!! much appreciated. roy reposted and updated from alt.autos.4x4.chevy-trucks by roys request. snoman says... you know i pick and choose what i respond to because it is not about being shown up but rather not stooping as low as you do especail since i see that you posted 5 responces in a little over a hour in this thread. you must really be awfull insecure. i actually feel abit sorry for you and some of your cohorts at times because it appears that you may never grow up. ----------------- thesnoblower.com here are defenses snoball falls back on everytime he knows hes lost the argument... aside from disappearing. 1. using the child defense 11 times. 1 such a child 2 you are such a child 3 and act like a child 4 you are such a child again 5 to act like a child 6 you must have been a troubled child 7 is such a inmature child 8 you act like a spoiled child 9 stop acting like a spoiled child 10 uou act like a child 11 what a child!keep it up is it makes you feel good andf gives you a cheap thrill like you have never had a typo. 2. used the insecure defense 19 times. 1 you must really be awfull insecure. 2 just like the law of insecure posters causing problems 3 you must be very insecure. 4 these are the ones that are so insecure and threatened 5 you must be really insecure. 6 how this stuff work must really make you feel insecure 7 cause trouble to make yourselfs feel less insecure. 8 what ever makes you feel less insecure 9 you must be awful insecure. 10 and it makes you really insecure 11 you must beone very insecure person! 12 children like yourself that are insecure add to the child list 13 you must be a very insecure person. 14 we do understand that you are very insecure. must have a mouse in his pocket. 15 you must be a very insecure person. 16 boy sombody is really insecure here 17 you must be realy insecure or something. 18 one it show how insecure your really are and 19 you must be realy insecure. 3. using grow up defense 9 times. 1 it appears that you may never grow up. 2 if you want to see a half wit look in the mirror. grow up 3 i am still waiting for you to grow up. 5 some kids never grow up. rec.outdoors.rv-travel 6 we can all hope that you do grow up one day as remote as it seems. that mouse again. 7 i wonder if you will ever grow up 8 do us all a favor *** and grow up some. 9 grow up and get a life! 10 we all hope you do grow up one day mouse in his pocket and finally 4. using the inmature defense 9 times. yeah im not sure what inmature is either. 1-3 ...drool/dribble coming out of a inmature childs mouth that serves no purpose and is unwanted just like most of his inmature statments. you too should think before you try to pass judgement and type because you observations are incorrect. i have a background in electrical and mechnical engineering and a mcse. if it is mechanical i can tell you how and why it does or does not work and calculate yeild strength of axles if you want if i have a weakness

From : yabahoobs

few things irritate me as bad as self righteous holier-than-thou hypocritical my way is right your way is wrong christians. gee - then you should have been following these religious threads a month ago or so. have a problem with. radical christians are no better than radical muslims i believe beekeep made that point a little while back as well. i agreed with him as i agree with you. but you know the old saying... you cant tell a crazy person that theyre crazy .

From : greg o

i had similar problem popped the hood hey big gunk on my battery terminals took off negative then positive brushed it. truck started with no problem. bob m wrote tophersmom wrote was driving home started to pull into driveway and truck died.everything died could not even turn on flashers. any suggestions check the battery cables for corrosion. clean or replace the cables and clean the contacts on the battery. bob .

From : nathan in montana

your religion does not teach the truth. ....but let me guess...yours does right rolling eyes as for which religion teaches the truth then why when the scholars put together the books of the bible they leave some out there are many opinions why but unless you were standing in the room 2000 years ago with the catholic fathers i doubt we will ever know. google apocrophy bible if you dont know what i an referring to. i have read some of the books of the apocrophy and wonder why myself! as far as i am concerned we all are given all the information our religious fathers want us to know. pretty much the same as the government but thats another conversation! greg .

From : Annonymous

on jan 28 1127 am joe nob...@home.now wrote anybody know what front-end alignment adjustments are possible on an 03 dakota of course toe but what about caster & camber also for any service folks whats up with a 4-wheel alignment from the dealer my invoice listed a 4-wheel alignment. even though i paid the advertised price on my discount coupon $49.95 is this just a scam to jack up the cost of a rwd front end alignment tia. regards joe i have no idea but i brought my 2wd 98 dodge dakota pickup into ntb for new tires and alignment. i read over the printout afterwards and notice that only the toes and cambers front tires were adjusted or changed.....i asked why the casters were not adjusted even though they are out of the proper range according to printout and the front desk guy said he didnt think they could be adjusted i didnt talk to the alignment guy because the place was closing that night....ill probably go back...but first i want to become a little informed before doing that. drove the truck home and it handles quite well but ...... still think they were probably just cutting corners . i do remember the same thing happening about 5 years ago...ntb said something to the effect that not good to adjust the casters....can throw off the toe or something vaguely similar to that. p.s. left caster is 4.9 but the correct range is 2.5 to 3.5 right caster same as above actually i dont know if they did a good job with the camber and toe because they certainly didnt move the numbers anywhere into the center of the correct ranges although they did put everything into the correct ranges but on the edges of the range in some cases if you know what i mean. .

From : roy

on sat 10 feb 2007 201400 -0500 roy roy@home.net wrote this is coming from the religion that believes you have to use their bible to justify their beliefs.... please provide specific examples to support your statement. nate did you ever jump into it now! gbfg lol i was just gonna stay out of it but i was thinking the same thing. i agree with nate all the way but fat ass fred didnt start this deal about mormon lies.............in fact im not sure that fat ass fred isnt just an aka for the fool that did. roy nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

thank you sir!! much appreciated. roy reposted and updated from alt.autos.4x4.chevy-trucks by roys request. snoman says... you know i pick and choose what i respond to because it is not about being shown up but rather not stooping as low as you do especail since i see that you posted 5 responces in a little over a hour in this thread. you must really be awfull insecure. i actually feel abit sorry for you and some of your cohorts at times because it appears that you may never grow up. ----------------- thesnoblower.com here are defenses snoball falls back on everytime he knows hes lost the argument... aside from disappearing. 1. using the child defense 11 times. 1 such a child 2 you are such a child 3 and act like a child 4 you are such a child again 5 to act like a child 6 you must have been a troubled child 7 is such a inmature child 8 you act like a spoiled child 9 stop acting like a spoiled child 10 uou act like a child 11 what a child!keep it up is it makes you feel good andf gives you a cheap thrill like you have never had a typo. 2. used the insecure defense 19 times. 1 you must really be awfull insecure. 2 just like the law of insecure posters causing problems 3 you must be very insecure. 4 these are the ones that are so insecure and threatened 5 you must be really insecure. 6 how this stuff work must really make you feel insecure 7 cause trouble to make yourselfs feel less insecure. 8 what ever makes you feel less insecure 9 you must be awful insecure. 10 and it makes you really insecure 11 you must beone very insecure person! 12 children like yourself that are insecure add to the child list 13 you must be a very insecure person. 14 we do understand that you are very insecure. must have a mouse in his pocket. 15 you must be a very insecure person. 16 boy sombody is really insecure here 17 you must be realy insecure or something. 18 one it show how insecure your really are and 19 you must be realy insecure. 3. using grow up defense 9 times. 1 it appears that you may never grow up. 2 if you want to see a half wit look in the mirror. grow up 3 i am still waiting for you to grow up. 5 some kids never grow up. rec.outdoors.rv-travel 6 we can all hope that you do grow up one day as remote as it seems. that mouse again. 7 i wonder if you will ever grow up 8 do us all a favor *** and grow up some. 9 grow up and get a life! 10 we all hope you do grow up one day mouse in his pocket and finally 4. using the inmature defense 9 times. yeah im not sure what inmature is either. 1-3 ...drool/dribble coming out of a inmature childs mouth that serves no purpose and is unwanted just like most of his inmature statments. you too should think before you try to pass judgement and type because you observations are incorrect. i have a background in electrical and mechnical engineering and a mcse. if it is mechanical i can tell you how and why it does or does not work and calculate yeild strength of axles if you want if i have a weakness it is prehaps i get too complex with some of my explanations and wrongly assume that someone can understand the obvious when inded they infact cannot. also it is a classic inmature responce for... 4 you are the inmature child here 5 keep up the inmature work!!! 6 is such a inmature child 7 you forgot to add that these inmature attempts 8 but you are doing a great job show the web how inmature your are and how threatened you must feel that 9 it is so sad to be so inmature and hide in the shadows. he never got immature right as it never turned up in a search of his post. this took less than 30 minutes to compile. if i ever get enough time to do it the next list will be snoballs follies. yeah that will take long time to compile... might hit a upload limit posting that. .

From : nathan in montana

reposted and updated from alt.autos.4x4.chevy-trucks by roys request. snoman says... you know i pick and choose what i respond to because it is not about being shown up but rather not stooping as low as you do especail since i see that you posted 5 responces in a little over a hour in this thread. you must really be awfull insecure. i actually feel abit sorry for you and some of your cohorts at times because it appears that you may never grow up. ----------------- thesnoblower.com here are defenses snoball falls back on everytime he knows hes lost the argument... aside from disappearing. 1. using the child defense 11 times. 1 such a child 2 you are such a child 3 and act like a child 4 you are such a child again 5 to act like a child 6 you must have been a troubled child 7 is such a inmature child 8 you act like a spoiled child 9 stop acting like a spoiled child 10 uou act like a child 11 what a child!keep it up is it makes you feel good andf gives you a cheap thrill like you have never had a typo. 2. used the insecure defense 19 times. 1 you must really be awfull insecure. 2 just like the law of insecure posters causing problems 3 you must be very insecure. 4 these are the ones that are so insecure and threatened 5 you must be really insecure. 6 how this stuff work must really make you feel insecure 7 cause trouble to make yourselfs feel less insecure. 8 what ever makes you feel less insecure 9 you must be awful insecure. 10 and it makes you really insecure 11 you must beone very insecure person! 12 children like yourself that are insecure add to the child list 13 you must be a very insecure person. 14 we do understand that you are very insecure. must have a mouse in his pocket. 15 you must be a very insecure person. 16 boy sombody is really insecure here 17 you must be realy insecure or something. 18 one it show how insecure your really are and 19 you must be realy insecure. 3. using grow up defense 9 times. 1 it appears that you may never grow up. 2 if you want to see a half wit look in the mirror. grow up 3 i am still waiting for you to grow up. 5 some kids never grow up. rec.outdoors.rv-travel 6 we can all hope that you do grow up one day as remote as it seems. that mouse again. 7 i wonder if you will ever grow up 8 do us all a favor *** and grow up some. 9 grow up and get a life! 10 we all hope you do grow up one day mouse in his pocket and finally 4. using the inmature defense 9 times. yeah im not sure what inmature is either. 1-3 ...drool/dribble coming out of a inmature childs mouth that serves no purpose and is unwanted just like most of his inmature statments. you too should think before you try to pass judgement and type because you observations are incorrect. i have a background in electrical and mechnical engineering and a mcse. if it is mechanical i can tell you how and why it does or does not work and calculate yeild strength of axles if you want if i have a weakness it is prehaps i get too complex with some of my explanations and wrongly assume that someone can understand the obvious when inded they infact cannot. also it is a classic inmature responce for... 4 you are the inmature child here 5 keep up the inmature work!!! 6 is such a inmature child 7 you forgot to add that these inmature attempts 8 but you are doing a great job show the web how inmature your are and how threatened you must feel that 9 it is so sad to be so inmature and hide in the shadows. he never got immature right as it never turned up in a search of his post. this took less than 30 minutes to compile. if i ever get enough time to do it the next list will be snoballs follies. yeah that will take long time to compile... might hit a upload limit posting that. .

From : nathan in montana

your religion does not teach the truth. .....but let me guess...yours does right rolling eyes mankind has existed for millions of years and worshipped countless different gods.....and while billions and billions have all been wrong your church is the one to get it right......right rolling eyes you sir are the exact reason i find fault in religion. every morman ive heard will start off with the bible then eventually say thats where you have to go to the book of morman why cant find the answer in the bible or your afraid the bibles answer isnt what you want to hear then surely you have a wealth of specific examples at hand you did say every mormon youve met provided you with them. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : craig c

who wins the shoot out on sat 10 feb 2007 091918 -0500 roy roy@home.net wrote okay the rabbit led me astray on the sb. of course it was a team i knew nothing about. im still amazed that the qb still has a job. so how about a pick for the bud shoot out tonight i know only a few of us watch but im out of ideas. heres another. qualifying for the daytona 500 is sunday. who gets pole just for the hell of it. pick the first 5 in any order. or if ya have the balls pick exact. smoke kk jj jr jg .

From : stormin mormon

well at least it wasnt green garden snakes. sorry to hear of your troubles. http//urbanlegends.about.com/library/blgreensnake.htm -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. hey u all other day i went burger king ordered nice king breakfast meal with nice hot cup of coffee. ate the meal first saved coffee for last since its fricking cold in new hampshire with half assed inches of snow. put my coffee in my coffee holder my dodge has plow with no weight on rear wheels. so when i put in reverse sandy road come on i need some fun. without realizing coffee holder for 96 dodge ram doesnt hold any cup intact so u know the friggin conclusion. spilled alll over my driver side yet i didnt realize it til i reached for my coffee and i was shocked to know that coffee is missing. fuse shorted my directional signal replaced it with new fuse for under 2 bucks. it also gave me a good scare i went bank after this happened coffee spill my truck had no power. all i did was let air in my truck with door open and left ignition on all of sudden power went back on then started no problem. i got accepted to a auto/diesel program at universal technical institute uti norwood campus massachusetts and im fricking thrilled. hoohah to america yall cya later americas real red neck .

From : fat ass fred

on fri 09 feb 2007 233442 -0500 tophersmom tophersmomone@aol.com wrote was driving home started to pull into driveway and truck died.everything died could not even turn on flashers. any suggestions alternator went out and the battery was dead since it wasnt charging since there was no battery power left and no altenator the engine died..... sounds like it to me at least.... .

From : beekeep

on 9 feb 2007 184452 -0800 brohawk thadk101@yahoo.com wrote hello all i am looking at purchasing a new dodge vehicle. a friend of mine says he can get me a a program code to give to the dealer when i am purchasing the vehicle. he says this will get me a huge discount. any idea what this is also the dealers claim to show you what they paid for the car yet when visiting a different dealer they show a lower sale price and claim they paid even less. i cannot believe that dealers are paying dodge different amounts for the same car. i am looking at a 2007 durango 4x4 or awd limited with the hemi and most of the options. what is this really costing the dealer i have seen prices from $38000 to $42000 at various dealers. thanks! i know this will seem anti dodge but all new dodge 4x4s have no abilty to disconnect front axles in 2wd so front differentail and drive shaft is always turning which adds to wear and slight loss of mpg too especailly in cold weather dodge/chysler is the only detriot maker that does this too to save a few bucks per vehicle. even in the front ifs they used a differentail by aam that was designed for the use in the rear of a small suv and has no provisions to disconnect rather then chossing one of the several other diffs that aam has on the shelve that do support disconnecting. also when they switched to the aam axle in the front of hd pickups in 03 dodge speced it to have no disconnect and bastard bearing hubs that will not support the addition of lockout hubs without a expensive aftermarket kit about 2 grand to change it to what dodge could have done at time of design for about 100 bucks. so let the masses attack me on this but i am just telling you like it is and there is no excause to make a 4x4 today with todays energy prices to not try to make it as fuel efficent as possible and always dragging the front diff and drive shaft even in 2wd is not a wise design to meet this goal and it will cost a lot of money in extra fuel over life of vehicle. make no mistake there is a mpg penilty that will increase as tempature drops the sad part is that dodge could fix this easily but rather they do not and keep you in the dark about its design limitations and hope to woe you with whistles and bells and that you never look deeply under the hood. there is no plausable excause for this other than to save them some coin on the cost of building them at the consumers long term expense. ----------------- thesnoman.com .

From : stormin mormon

first of all i have to mention this disclaimer for anyone thinking im up to anything. no this is not to solicit sales. i went thru 3 months of asking questions and hunting down parts and other headache creating tasks trying to figure this out to get it in my truck so i thought to share it with anyone else that may want to install the actual factory uconnect on their vehicle.sure it will cost money but what doesnt these days if you want it you will pay for it... this cost me about $700.00 including 2.0 hours installation time at a dealer at $100/hr including the starscan which only took 5 minutes. i finally got the factory uconnect unit in my 06 power wagon yesterday. its awesome! however the factory unit may or may not be easy to put in depending on your vehicle. little background on harnesses from what i learned in the past 3 months it appears that dodge complicates things with their wiring harness design. rams with clearance lights and no uconnect have a completely different harness than with uconnect and the clearance lights. there are more combinations of course which lead me to find out there are numerous iterations of all the harnesses used in all dc vehicles depending on ordered options. i would imagine that dc did this to save on costs on the harnesses so saving $1.50 on harness parts per vehicle if not required on a vehicle multiplied over whatever amount of cars produced in a year that doesnt have a particular option i guess would amount add up even though all dc dashes electronics share part numbers. so it sux for figuring out what you need for a replacement. plus they would need to inventory or continue producing 20 + whatever the number is different harnesses. if there was only one harness used imagine the possibility of adding any factory option you didnt originally get at production. but nope dodge did not make it that simple... oh well. if its easy to put in or not would depend on your current harness. you may need an additional harness. requiring or not requiring an additional harness depends on your vehicle and whether it has the mirror harness jack in teh a-pillar and how many pins are in it. if less than 11 pins connected to live wires youll need the lx jet harness. if you need the harness youll just need know how to get into the headliner a pillar under the dash and pull out the radio. or take it to a dealer for a 2.0 hour job. also while at the dealer which you dont have to do and it works without this step to use the starscan to setup the new found device on the can so the evic is aware of it. if you dont need the harness the plug that the telematic unit gets plugged into in the lx cars is behind the glove box. in rams i believe the plug is behind and to the left of the radio but check dcx for the exact placement or just ask ted... if not sure or want to simplify the whole process ask ted what you need. hes also working a universal uconnect harness if your vehicle requires it which was originally designed by jaak as the lx jet harness for any dc vehicle whether with or without the rain sensors mirror dimmers clearance lights etc. ted can put together a package including the telematic unit mirror along with mirror harness already profesionally spliced into the jet harness that jaak created. whether you need this harness or not its pretty much a simple plug and play procedure. ted harris mopar super center rick hendrick dodge chrysler jeep http//www.moparsupercenter.com/ 800-456-5337 for more info how-tos etc what everyone else take on it is etc check out these threads. also check out jaaks garage too that has a bunch other factory mods and goodies. lx uconnect harness jet harness http//lxharness.com/index.phpact=viewprod&productid=2 lx forums installing the factory uconnect in your lx http//www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.phpt=22586&pp=10&page=14 dodge forums re installing factory uconnect http//www.dodgeforum.com/m371162/mpage2/key/tm.htm#700977 jaaks garage http//ca.geocities.com/knob@rogers.com/ more goodies at this site including a reverse cam not factory and modifying the nav radio to allow you to connect your laptop or a portable dvd player www.tvandnav2go.com you i hope this helps anyone attempting this awesome addition. ace infinite diversities in infinite combinations assimilation imminent. resistance is futile very funny scotty. now beam down my clothes. .

From : craig c

some kinda wierd star type screw. those are torx screws - pick up a set of torx screwdrivers at any auto parts store. you can get a whole set of torx bits the kind that fit a universal screwdriver for a few dollars. .

From : stormin mormon

didnt the antichrist drive a yugo the apostles drove hondas; they were of one accord. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. scott hendryx scott.hendryx.clothes@sbcglobal.net wrote in deer dumnasses. the antichrist drove a powerstroke and the real and only jesus drives a dodge ram hd with a cummins turbo d under the hood. nothing else really fucking matters now does it -- ------moparman------ ---signature pending yet another assine comment by mianderson--- .

From : fat ass fred

on feb 8 1204 pm fat ass fred fat...@mlc-group.net wrote on 5 feb 2007 201842 -0800 yabahoobs chendrik...@gmail.com wrote my truck is the first p/u ive ever driven let alone the first v8 ive ever been behind. alot different than the 6-banger in the caravan and behind that...the lil saturn engine...im always paranoid somethings wrong with it.... just remember most pick-up trucks have no weight on the back end during rainy days the back end will tend to fish-tail on some pick-ups and depending on your tires you may find you have to take off kinda slow when the payments wet.... especially if you have mud-grips.... yeah i stuck a pair of bags of landscaping stone back there...helps out a little...but i baby my thing so much i never tax the engine too hard on a pull-out. .

From : nathan in montana

wolfie wrote the film is cut to fit the entire glass. im not sure i understand your concern. i have tinting on all the other windows. they are not as easy to see out of as the front untinted windshield. i think i prefer it that way! .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote no need. ive been married to and raised a family with a good catholic girl. yes they have a dedication to family but its not nearly as prominent as within the mormon church. depends on the individual. family values are far stronger among the catholics in mexico than they are anywhere here. .

From : nathan in montana

hey miles........all religions are man created. i still support the concept however because of the good they bring to our world good oh ... you mean wars intolerance polygamy and terrorism. religion is a snare and a racket - joseph rutherford religion is a tool used by government to keep idiots busy - me craig c. .

From : nathan in montana

tbone wrote probably none as global warming prevented the lakes from freezing over and that is what is causing so much damn snow now. bull. the areas getting all the snow arent all from lake effect which is a rather localized event. which lakes exactly are you referring too here .

From : gary oaks

mormons in general are very nice people. you cant deny their annoying-ness though...if you dont believe me move to utah. anyone trying to push their religious beliefs onto others is annoying. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

and youre doing both of course. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote name calling now thats a great way to win a flame war. name calling hmm...spinning is a great way to flame! .

From : stormin mormon

heck of a lot more than miles ever posted. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote thats why he nathan posted evidence it was so. it wasnt evidence of such. nothing was presented to support the claim. only the claim itself. statements do not classify as evidence. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote what part of clearly states that they excommunicate did you miss a written policy is not the same thing as enforcement of that policy. .

From : stormin mormon

that they excommunicate sure sounds like behaviour. they didnt say that the policy says to... -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote what part of clearly states that they excommunicate did you miss a written policy is not the same thing as enforcement of that policy. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote that they excommunicate sure sounds like behaviour. they didnt say that the policy says to... the article gave no references to such. it did not give historical data that shows a pattern of doing so. it was just an editorial commentary that because it was on about.com you seem to suggest must be true and accept it as such. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote there is no need to reinforce that the policy exists. the article clearly states that violators are excommunicated. you said that already. the question is whether thats actually happening or not. .

From : stormin mormon

hed probably call them retouched. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. just statements devoid of any evidence. lol.....what do you want pictures of them being drug from the church or something -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote how do you know what their beliefs are or their agenda is perhaps theyre polygamist sympathizers. nah. since they disagree with you they must have an anti-mormon agenda. .

From : stormin mormon

and what do you bring to the discussion -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote oh yeah thats it. rolling eyes well nate you have repeatedly supported your claims because of a couple opinions listed on media websites and told me its accepted as fact because of such. that says it all! .

From : Annonymous

on fri 9 mar 2007 114821 -0500 tbone tbonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote tbone wrote they are probably more to the left than others but nowhere near as bad a fox. thats just your left wing bias talking. sorry miles but you have shown your hard right bias far more than i have to the left. lol. can you get more ridiculous .

From : nathan in montana

on 15 feb 2007 075012 -0800 yabahoobs chendrikson@gmail.com wrote on feb 15 837 am idaspode not@homewatching.tv wrote on wed 14 feb 2007 191611 -0700 miles n...@nopers.com wrote nathan in montana wrote ive quoted their policy if i quote you the utah law does that mean its enforced the church doesnt enforce it any more than the law does. having lived in the salt lake valley from 1973-95 i can say polyagamy is alive and well throughout the valley. its not hidden away in some remote community its in every surburban neighborhood. in my particular case in my small neighborhood in sandy next door on one side was a sl county sheriff two doors away on the other side was a ployagamist family. right behind the cops house but on another ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ polygamists family street was another poly family. everyone in the area knew what was going on but there was absolutely no enforcement of the laws of the state regarding plural marraige. these two families dutifully marched off to church every sunday. the manner in which the classic polys dress its kinda hard to miss them. also hard to ignore is the one adult man with several adult women and a grundle of kids in tow. obviously the church tolerated these and countless other poly families. out of one side of its public relations mouth it denounces the practice out of the other side it accepts and tolerates it. just like any other large business it has a glossy front it presents to the general public and its rear end where reality is policy set and implemented. these two facets can be very different from each other. dj yet another great eyewitness account of rampant hypocracy in modern mormon culture...yet another oppurtunity for nate to dismiss common knowledge and eyewitness experience because it doesnt agree with what he wants to think. thank you dj. ps - is the poly-community at the base of little cottonwood canyon still alive and kickin i cant say 12 years ago when the olympics gave the bid to slc we moved to idaho. funny that there are quite a few lds here in sw idaho but up here its not like the church is the 4th branch of the government like it was in slc. if nathan is indeed in montana the lds presence/experience may be very different from that in the sl valley. personally i dont really care if a man has several wives as long as there is no exploitation going on and all are willing participants of legal age more power to him/them. its the hypocrisy of the church and the state that bugs me. it may have evolved with the influx of non-mormons to the valley in the last decade but in the 70s there was little separation of the church and the state. not much went forward without the blessing of the church elders. imo aside from this blurring of the church/state line and although a little odd in some respects the lds religion seems to be a fairly good one promoting family values clean living education self reliance and charity among its members. just dont tell me how to live my life ive always been a do your thing but dont touch mine kinda guy... dj .

From : nathan in montana

on feb 15 815 am cjc1...@gmail.com cjc1...@gmail.com wrote on feb 15 756 am wolfie dplusone...@netscape.net wrote on feb 15 542 am miles n...@nopers.com wrote wolfie wrote but this stuff was $150.00 for the windshield piece alone. so it doesnt take long to add up. you had the windshield tinted my initial post states that very clearly. my second post reiterates with an emphasis on the cost. judging from your use of a few extra question marks it is my guess that you didnt misunderstand what i said but that a. i am the first person in your life that has ever tinted a windshield or b. you have an opinion youre just dying to express. my moneys on b i always try to get a top quality film. being in arizona im more interested in blocking out heat and uv than light. im not sure but i thought the metallic tints are better at blocking uv and heat. i see. well i did what research i could on the subject and found the non-metallic products to be very appealing in features and durability. the studies will show the relative reductions in uv and heat and they are very similar as you will see. and we are not faced with the type of sunlight conditions in southern oregon that exist in arizona so theres a good possibility we might not arrive at the same conclusion. youll just have to try to take my word for it when i tell you i put what i felt was the best product on a brand new car. i cant imagine doing otherwise. but the point of my post is not to convince you or anyone else of what to use. i was merely responding the best way i could based upon my own experiences to the op. wolfie i have an 01 quad cab 4x4.....i hade the back window and the two side ones done for $100.00 at an independent shop...the dealer wanted $300.00 for the same stuff...go figure charlie the oc- i expect ill use the same product on my 99 qc as we did on the maxie. and i expect for the back window 2 front doors and windshield itll cost close to $3 to 400.00. i do like the finished effect though. wolfie .

From : nathan in montana

on feb 15 814 am roy r...@home.net wrote on feb 15 542 am miles n...@nopers.com wrote wolfie wrote but this stuff was $150.00 for the windshield piece alone. so it doesnt take long to add up. you had the windshield tinted my initial post states that very clearly. my second post reiterates with an emphasis on the cost. judging from your use of a few extra question marks it is my guess that you didnt misunderstand what i said but that a. i am the first person in your life that has ever tinted a windshield you are the first person that i know of that has tinted a windshield. unless you are talking about the top only. i thought that it was illegal. but... the laws vary from state to state but are very concise with respect to the areas allowable and the minimum percentage of allowed light through each area. and that is a gradient on the windshield as opposed to a continuous degree of darkness on any of the other windows. http//www.tintcenter.com/laws/az/ the shop that we take our stuff to is the same one used by the state police and local sheriffs dept. and we have always stipulated that we are not interested in exceeding the legal limits. what i find interesting is that it was law enforcement through their use of surveillance vans and the need for darkened glass that first promoted the use of extreme window tinting on cars. but i *want* a leo to be able to see into my car at night if they need to so its not that extreme. far less than is allowable in your state. wolfie .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote i cannot comment as i dont believe in revelation to begin with. that is how your religion was formed. um when did it become my religion you arent following me. i have no religion i simply recongize the flaw in this debate. the lds church is not the same as the flds church. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : idaspode

last time i went to a dealer they did a five plug tune up on my 1989 s-10 blazer. cost me about $250 and they told me that the last plug was in real tight. i did my own tune up a year or two later the plug turned right out. nice and easy. they just didnt want to pull the wheel off to get at it. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. hdinny wrote anyone know what the typical cost is for a dealer to change the plugs in an 03 dodge ram 1500 hemi hugh just had 30000 mile maintenance done.on my 04 4x4.in dec. the break down for that part was $56.20 for parts and $119.95 labor for a total of $175.15. this was in wisconsin. the whole 30000 mile maintenance as required in the maintenance schedule came to $636.91!! .

From : stormin mormon

on thu 15 feb 2007 102656 -0500 stormin mormon cayoung61-&spamblock*-@hotmail.com wrote its fairly clear that you dont think the mormons are of god. however please note that the mormons believe that their church is founded on and run by revelation from god. a standard joke among some of utahs non-mormons nomos was that old joey smith was rummaging around those new england woods and stumbled across some mushrooms thus the revelations and visits from god... dj .

From : stormin mormon

well you got to pay for the building and the hired help. phones and so on. so id guess the cost is more than just the sparks. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. scott hendryx scott.hendryx.clothes@sbcglobal.net wrote in anyone know what the typical cost is for a dealer to change the plugs in an 03 dodge ram 1500 hemi hugh one kind of plug was about 3.00 each and the other was about 8.00 each. you got 16 plugs. -- ------moparman------ ---signature pending yet another assine comment by mianderson--- .

From : idaspode

revelation does one of many things. among them include 1 testifies of truth 2 guides our actions 3 gives information 4 keeps us safe from danger 5 helps us be of service to others. after my baptism i was confirmed. given the gift of the holy ghost. since that time ive received revlation for myself and on behalf of others. it has been a real blessing in my life and for the lives of the people around me. yesterday i received at least three revelations that i can remember off hand. one was helping me fix a snow blower. another was guiding me to buy orange juice for a sick friend. another was during the health blessing i performed for another sick friend. i thought someone else was buying orange juice so i didnt. oops! gotta act on those revelations. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. then what is the purpose of a revelation i cannot comment as i dont believe in revelation to begin with. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : yabahoobs

on feb 13 1234 pm roy r...@home.net wrote on feb 13 655 am roy r...@home.net wrote looking at the weather you are going to get your ass kicked. reading about blizzard warnings. this is where diesel comes in handy. hope ya have gas stored. remember never get out of the truck.g i guess with this snow and all the money ya make we can upgrade the meal from wc.vbg roy maybe good ole blowjob err opps i mean snojob will have to come service him! no i dont think rabbit has any shovel work. danm right!!!!! come on man snojob is a plowing god! lol hes probably got enought btus coming out of his mouth to melt this storm.. go get some sleep! your going to be up for a couple of days!! the blizzard of 07 is now over.....unless the wind picks up and it gets to drifting.. the ole dodge never missed a lick in 17 hrs of running and i only got stuck twice. im sure i never woulda got stuck if snoidiot had given me some plowing advice... cut the corners too close vbg hey looking at maps thinking towards june. you arent that far from elida rd. are you without getting out my laser rangefinder or stepping it off id guess im about 40-50 yds from it... beginning or end of june weekend or middle of the week im thinking out of fl early am fri. june 1st 15 hour drive to the fairfield for the weekend or sun am then head north and grab i-90 east. all tentative right now. that work for ya just one thought. im sure there will be others. early june depending on the weather of course im usually still busy in the fields but ill have sunday to fuck off. i dont have the schedules yet but there may be a pistol match on that sunday. last summer they were the 1st and 2nd sundays. you shoot .45 or 9s well have ammo for ya otherwise well have to hit up meijers. i think youll enjoy this type of shooting. fairfield is a good place and about five minutes from elida denny you stopping by and spending some quality time with your buddy first figure by then you two will be so close it will take the jaws of life to get ya apart. hell ill probably have to stop by the idiots shack and pick ya up. gbfg roy vbg denny roy denny .

From : yabahoobs

on feb 14 722 pm miles n...@nopers.com wrote nathan in montana wrote this issue isnt even questionable. the real mormon church the real mormon church is no longer in my view. when the church split two new churches were formed. the leaders themselves split. what we have today is not the religion formed through the teachings of smith. its something very different possibly better. eloquently put. excellent point. hard to deny. the church split i.e. displayed its dynamic nature - responsive to external forces due to judicial and cultural pressure. what remains today while promoting family values this is good is an incredibly well oiled machine. one in which the machines of the catholic church could take a few notes. myself and miles arent demonizing the lds church past or presnt despite what nate desperatly wishes the only logical explanation for claiming we have agendas. since were not demonizing i dont see why nate cannot stop deifying. .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote the about.com link does just that. it does no such thing. it only states what their policy says. not what theyve done to enforce that policy. it states that they excommunicate those who practice polygamy just as i said they did. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : bg

they were part of the church at one point. .......and they were kicked out for practicing polygamy. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

on fri 2 feb 2007 170402 -0600 jj2 jj2posting@noitaintvalid.net wrote id appreciate some insight from anyone in the know about this engine. how do they deactivate the four non-contributing cylinders is it always the same four or do they shift it around in order to spread the wear when does the deactivation occur can the feature be manually locked out any known issues yet i remember the cadillac 8-6-4 system from years ago it was a pos throw-away engine. im looking at trading my 03 ram hemi before the $7k incentives run out next week buti dont want to be a guinea pig for a technology experiment that is valueless or worse. thanks in advance for any information martin saw your question in the other thread. the 03 just seems to have the rep of being faster and more responsive like dodge has been taming down the hemis over the years. as to the mds. dont care for the mds one little bit but dodge being dodge there is a wide range of quality to their engines. some say its a good thing. i guess i do know how it works at least on mine. what are model are you interested in my 06 durango hemi mds works fine so far 7000 mi. deactivation switch to 8 cyls occurs when there is increasing load i.e. going uphill. i have read specs somewhere that is runs on 4 cyls about 56% of the time. you can notice the shift if you are watching for it; its not really objectionable at all. usually i have to be watching the tach to be sure its switching. i live in a hilly area birmingham al and have had not any problems or annoyance from it. it is mandatory that 5w-20 oil be used however - if not shifting will supposedly take longer and it will be more noticeable. neither the dealer nor owners manual tell you that but numerous online sources do - and you dont have the usual use this oil weight for this temperature range chart; it says use this. i wont swear that the cylinders dont rotate the active sequence but would be quite surprised if they did - seems an incredible lot of trouble to go to and it would be a nightmare to troubleshoot. unknown how the mds feature could be locked out or why anyone would want to - this is what keeps the fuel economy reasonable. i will say that with my former vehicle a chevy colorado i would go nuts going up hills on cruise - very poorly set up i have been a chevy man most of my life btw. it would lag way back going uphill then downshift two gears and give you whiplash trying to catch up. i finally stopped even trying to use the cruise in hilly country. the 5.7 hemi in contrast has extremely smooth cruise control and rarely drops off more than 1-2 mph even when swapping from 4-8 cyls or vice versa. very nice. - larry a. .

From : tbone

roy wrote azwiley1 wrote on feb 13 732 am nosey kfre...@removethis.hotmail.com wrote miles wrote azwiley1 wrote stick around if you can handle it. not only will it get better but it will get worse. it used to be that 20% of the time it would get worse. now its 30% of the time that things get worse. thats a 50% increase. its only a 10% *increase* but that 10% increase /is/ 50% *more*. it is not your math is convoluted! bg besides its a k&n and they siad it was worth 15 more hp with its use so it has to be correct! oh yeah my napa 2790 bhaf filters better and flows more than any k&n. click torque wrenches are the best. put your tailgate up for best fuel mileage. amsoil. 85000 trouble free miles on the factory lift pump and 47re. so there! ken ya cant win with larry. i converted him to buddism. so hes correct all the time never wrong. bfg dear *g*reat *b*uddist *f*ounding *g*rand-master roy i have but one question about buddism. if a buddist /claims/ to be wrong is he right that will never happen. as you should know by now one who practices buddism can never be wrong. thus that claim would be impossible. vbg roy ken .

From : yabahoobs

bg wrote the mormans didnt invent the concept of multiple wives but just because they practised it a hundred years ago that is all they are known for. thats because it was a major central part of the religion when smith started it all. .

From : bg

that kind of crap exists everywhere miles so what exactly is your point -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving nathan in montana wrote i never said there wasnt plenty of active polygamy in utah. im stating its not in the mormon church as its not allowed in the mormon church. that does not mean it doesnt exist in the church. you already said they cant possibly know if someone is or isnt a polygamist. the general practice is the same as the militarys dont ask dont tell policy. to say it doesnt exist is absurd. .

From : miles

miles wrote cost of plugs is minor. there are 16 plugs. i have not changed mine but am told at least two cylinders are major buggers to get out and new ones installed for the average home mechanic with limited amount of tools. my dealer quoted 2 hours labor @ $90/hour plus the costs of the plugs. opps forgot to add that this is in regards to a 2004 durango which may have more difficult access than the ram. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote ive quoted their policy if i quote you the utah law does that mean its enforced the church doesnt enforce it any more than the law does. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote what exactly would my needs be here miles to spread what you feel is the truth and correct what you feel is not the truth per your views. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote i cannot comment as i dont believe in revelation to begin with. that is how your religion was formed. .

From : miles

scott hendryx wrote anyone know what the typical cost is for a dealer to change the plugs in an 03 dodge ram 1500 hemi hugh one kind of plug was about 3.00 each and the other was about 8.00 each. you got 16 plugs. cost of plugs is minor. there are 16 plugs. i have not changed mine but am told at least two cylinders are major buggers to get out and new ones installed for the average home mechanic with limited amount of tools. my dealer quoted 2 hours labor @ $90/hour plus the costs of the plugs. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote theyve been silent on a lot of issues. they dont make commercials about the evils of robbing a bank but that doesnt mean that they condone it. local churches here take on public issues routinely. through tv radio public gatherings etc. however i dont recall the local mormon church in mesa az. taking part in any such activities towards any cause. its possible thats because the mormons have not done so well with the public in the past decade. theyve been involved in numerous altercations with the law here. in fairness the catholic church also came under fire a few years ago for much of the same reasons. just not as often yet or at least they havent gotten caught as often. .

From : miles

hdinny wrote anyone know what the typical cost is for a dealer to change the plugs in an 03 dodge ram 1500 hemi hugh just had 30000 mile maintenance done.on my 04 4x4.in dec. the break down for that part was $56.20 for parts and $119.95 labor for a total of $175.15. this was in wisconsin. the whole 30000 mile maintenance as required in the maintenance schedule came to $636.91!! .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote ive seen the interviews with those excommunicated from the lds church and thats good enough for me. discovery channel is your basis for believing in what your leaders say hmm...theyre a tv show for entertainment value!!! i watched a show on discovery dealing with polygamy in the mormon church several years ago. yes several were excommunicated but only after the tv shows investigators made it very public. the families polygamy was already known publicly in the local region. there had been women who escaped and went to the police and . still nothing because they were over 18. it took the national publicity before the church did anything for the simple reason they needed to save their own face. .

From : nathan in montana

beekeep wrote they only lost a billion dollars last year! now they are shutting down 2 plants and letting go 13000 workers. the germans bought her for $40 billion. now they think they will be lucky to get $20 billion. one posible buyer is a chinese company wanting to get a foot hold in the american market. looks like the germans raped her pretty good. dmc made a public statement that says they wont separate and would rather integrate to a greater level. that was yesterday this is today! there is also a rumor circulating that dc and gm are in talks about gm acquiring chrysler........ we shall see..... mike .

From : miles

looking at the weather you are going to get your ass kicked. reading about blizzard warnings. this is where diesel comes in handy. hope ya have gas stored. remember never get out of the truck.g i guess with this snow and all the money ya make we can upgrade the meal from wc.vbg roy .

From : yabahoobs

nathan in montana wrote except they practice what the real church taught them show me something anything to substantiate your statements. huh the flds practices the very teachings that were the foundation of the lds. you now are attempting to dispute what the teachings of smith and young were .

From : miles

http//www.prwire.com/cgi-bin/stories.placct=104&story=/www/story/02-14-2007/0004527580&edate= dodge introduces all-new 2007 sprinter super-sized sprinter is longer wider and taller; offers more space choices features and innovations --increase in maximum width two inches interior height 11 inches exterior height 13 inches door opening height 5 inches cargo area length 19 inches vehicle length 30 inches cargo volume 127 cu. ft. and towing capacity 2500 lbs. --three vehicle lengths 233 273 and 289 inches on two new wheelbases -- 144 inches 170 inches or 170 inches extended with 15-inch longer rear overhang the longest wheelbase in the segment --three interior roof height options standard 65 inches high 76 inches and new mega 84 inches -- most among full-size vans --choice of two all-new engines new 3.0-liter v-6 diesel or 3.5- liter v-6 gas engine --most best-in-class advantages including cargo capacity up to 600 cubic feet interior compartment accessibility payload 5770 lbs. lowest side step-in height 19.9 inches widest rear-door opening 270 degrees cargo- sliding door loading width 51 inches and increased interior height up to 84 inches providing up to 7-feet interior work space --three gross vehicle weight rating gvwr configurations include new higher maximum 11030 lbs. --oil change intervals of 10000 miles and maintenance intervals of 30000 miles contribute to low maintenance costs --more than 25 advanced safety and security features represent highest level of safety and security technology available in the full-size van segment --all-new adaptive espr takes electronic stability programs to the next level --unique cargo protectionr system reduces accident risk from shifting loads --unmatched upfit-friendly design --new standard features include power windows and locks integrated wide- angle mirrors halogen headlamps 16-inch wheels tilt- and height-adjustable steering wheel cd radio one-touch triple-flash function turn signals and all-new adaptive esp for improved functionality and safety capability toronto feb. 14 /prwire-firstcall/ -- armed with an all-new super- sized sprinter dodge continues to build on its presence in the commercial vehicle market. completely redesigned the all-new 2007 dodge sprinter breaks the mold of current domestic van offerings and delivers superior quality reliability and commercial capability along with unequalled attributes that allow commercial customers to do even more. the all-new 2007 dodge sprinter raises the bar and sets a new commercial standard in the full-size van market said george murphy senior vice president -- global brand marketing chrysler group. targeted at commercial customers who want to take the performance of their commercial vehicle and business to the next level the all-new 2007 dodge sprinter answers the call and continues dodges revolution of the light- and medium-duty commercial vehicle market. more versatility choices and features dodges super-sized sprinter offers expanded versatility and even more choices and features. compared to the previous model the all-new 2007 dodge sprinter boasts increases in width two inches interior height 11 inches exterior height 13 inches cargo area length 19 inches vehicle length 30 inches cargo volume 127 cu. ft. and towing capacity 2500 lbs.. sprinter is available in three vehicle lengths 233 273 and 289 inches on two new wheelbases of 144 inches or 170 inches or 170 inches extended with a 15-inch longer rear overhang. it also boasts three interior roof height options standard 65 inches high 76 inches and new mega 84 inches - the most among full-size vans. powered by a choice of two all-new premium engines a 3.0-liter v-6 diesel engine with 154 horsepower or 3.5-liter v-6 gas engine with 254 horsepower three different gross vehicle weight rating gvwr configurations are offered including a new higher maximum gvwr up to 11030 lbs. for cargo vans and chassis cabs. with increased best-in-class interior height up to 84 inches both cargo and passenger high-roof models provide up to 7-feet interior work space. new standard features include power windows and locks integrated wide- angle mirrors halogen headlamps 16-inch wheels tilt- and height- adjustable steering wheel cd radio one-touch triple-flash function turn signals and all-new adaptive espr for improved functionality and safety capability. going beyond the capability of the traditional electronic stability program adaptive esp takes into account the way the sprinter is loaded. sensors ascertain the vehicle mass which ultimately determines the vehicles center of gravity. most best-in-class advantages the all-new 2007 dodge sprinter has the most class-leading attributes including best-in-class cargo capacity up to 600 cubic feet highest maximum payload 5770 lbs. lowest side step-in height 19.9 inches greatest interior roof heig

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote sure they did.......117 years ago! todays members absolutely cannot blame the lds church for their beliefs. the law caused a split in the church. who is to say what the real or what the better religion is the one that kept with the core values that the lds was started with or one that altered itself because of outside pressure this issue isnt even questionable. the real mormon church abolished the practice. the real mormon church continues to disallow polygamy and the real mormon church owns the copyright on the name. there is no question as to which church is the real mormon church. miles if you want to bash the flds for polygamy then buddy im right there with you.......but the flds church is not the mormon church. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote then surely you have evidence to the contrary their rules exist and are enforced. you have no evidence that their policy is anything more than words. its also a written law yet thats just words as well. ive quoted their policy and shown you a link from a neutral source that states that the policy is enforced. if you claim it isnt the burden of proof lies with you. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote i know youre not and that is the core of our problem. i dispense truth for the sake of integrity you dispense what you want that suits your needs in the same way budd has. what exactly would my needs be here miles -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

anyone know what the typical cost is for a dealer to change the plugs in an 03 dodge ram 1500 hemi hugh one kind of plug was about 3.00 each and the other was about 8.00 each. you got 16 plugs. -- ------moparman------ ---signature pending yet another assine comment by mianderson--- .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote then surely you have evidence to the contrary their rules exist and are enforced. you have no evidence that their policy is anything more than words. its also a written law yet thats just words as well. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote i dont care nor can i speak of how they do things in mexico pardon me if that makes me short-sighted. im discussing what goes on here in america. i dont care how your family does things. i only care how mine does. not the same thing as issues across an international border. .......lol ok my bad. as if we actually had a border anymore! - -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

mormons bash christians and vis-versa just like all other religions do. yes. be aware however that mormons are also christians. everyone thinks their religion is the right one. its not that everyone thinks their religion is right that bothers me. its that they think everyone else is wrong and they suffer from religious intolerance because of it. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote i dont care nor can i speak of how they do things in mexico pardon me if that makes me short-sighted. im discussing what goes on here in america. i dont care how your family does things. i only care how mine does. .

From : nathan in montana

public stance nathan. something that would help reverse the growing problem. the church has been silent on the issue. theyve been silent on a lot of issues. they dont make commercials about the evils of robbing a bank but that doesnt mean that they condone it. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote i know youre not and that is the core of our problem. i dispense truth for the sake of integrity you dispense what you want that suits your needs in the same way budd has. .

From : nathan in montana

then what is the purpose of a revelation i cannot comment as i dont believe in revelation to begin with. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

hey miles........all religions are man created. i still support the concept however because of the good they bring to our world good oh ... you mean wars intolerance polygamy and terrorism. i agree completely.....religion is also the basis of evil.....but speaking for what i see for myself i feel the good outweighs the bad. the only place youll typically find family values anymore is within a religious gathering. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote and where would they get such private interal information so now youre saying there can be no proof of enforcement of the anti-polygamy policy words are enough huh so how do you know they live up to their own word fact is you do not. ive seen the interviews with those excommunicated from the lds church and thats good enough for me. if youve something to prove that they dont enforce their published policy then please post it but the burden of proof here is on you as you are the one claiming that their published policy is a facade. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

you disagreed with my statement stating the flds members learned what they practice from the lds. sure they did.......117 years ago! todays members absolutely cannot blame the lds church for their beliefs. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote same here. ive read and studied their doctrine and cannot figure out what it is about the mormons that threaten other christians theyre no better or worse. same problems. mormons bash christians and vis-versa just like all other religions do. everyone thinks their religion is the right one. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote and where would they get such private interal information so now youre saying there can be no proof of enforcement of the anti-polygamy policy words are enough huh so how do you know they live up to their own word fact is you do not. now miles you know how ridiculous this request is. excommunications are private internal issues. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote it states that they excommunicate those who practice polygamy just as i said they did. oh please stop with the policy crap. actions speak louder than words and the policy is just words. saying something doesnt make it so and you know it. .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote it states that they excommunicate those who practice polygamy just as i said they did. oh please stop with the policy crap. actions speak louder than words and the policy is just words. saying something doesnt make it so and you know it. then surely you have evidence to the contrary their rules exist and are enforced. what more do you want .......and please keep it nice. if you stoop to a lower level it takes merit from your argument. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote no need. ive been married to and raised a family with a good catholic girl. yes they have a dedication to family but its not nearly as prominent as within the mormon church. depends on the individual. family values are far stronger among the catholics in mexico than they are anywhere here. i dont care nor can i speak of how they do things in mexico pardon me if that makes me short-sighted. im discussing what goes on here in america. - -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

beekeep wrote they only lost a billion dollars last year! now they are shutting down 2 plants and letting go 13000 workers. the germans bought her for $40 billion. now they think they will be lucky to get $20 billion. one posible buyer is a chinese company wanting to get a foot hold in the american market. looks like the germans raped her pretty good. dmc made a public statement that says they wont separate and would rather integrate to a greater level. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote i never said there wasnt plenty of active polygamy in utah. im stating its not in the mormon church as its not allowed in the mormon church. that does not mean it doesnt exist in the church. you already said they cant possibly know if someone is or isnt a polygamist. the general practice is the same as the militarys dont ask dont tell policy. to say it doesnt exist is absurd. any issues of polygamy that do exist in the mormon church are the exception and not the rule because it is done against the laws of the church. it isnt encouraged condoned or allowed in any way. if you know of a true mormon polygamist then report him to the mormon church and watch how fast he is excommunicated. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

the reality is that the flds church is not the mormon church. keep repeating that. cuz i sure as hell am not. i know youre not and that is the core of our problem. i dispense truth for the sake of integrity you are spinning lies to promote your agenda. the truth doesnt fit your argument so you wont let that stand in your way. the flds is not the mormon church and the mormon church is not responsible for what the flds church does. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote hey miles........all religions are man created then what is the purpose of a revelation at one time religions were formed from so called divine revelations and developed by man based on them. thats not true at all any more. i agree that many religions do serve value to society by giving something central to join populations together...the old know your neighbor helps build stronger communities. however they also cause major problems when the neighborhoods or countries conflict with each other over religious issues. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote stop it with the red herrings. the flds practices policy and belief that was abolished by the lds church 117 years ago. the two are not one in the same. never said they were one in the same at all. you disagreed with my statement stating the flds members learned what they practice from the lds. the very fundamental ideologies that the lds was founded on as a major core part of the religion. the lds today is a very different religion with one of its main beliefs having been removed by law and not by religious revelation. .

From : miles

chris thompson wrote denny the blizzard of 07 is now over.....unless the wind picks up and it gets to drifting.. the ole dodge never missed a lick in 17 hrs of running and i only got stuck twice. im sure i never woulda got stuck if snoidiot had given me some plowing advice... denny hes got a website where you can get educated on plowing. maybe your problem is that your not driving a 70s blazer.....your equipment is just too new to be a good plow truck. or maybe its because you didnt coat your entire truck in rear axle lube. or could it be that your not running straight antifreeze in your radiator oh wait.....i know your problem its a diesel.......everyone knows you gotta plow and tow with gasoline bfg gears are all wrong for plowing. my gears are fine im not running the correct tires. i got a set of these new fangled radials that he says wont work.. denny -- ken .

From : yabahoobs

nathan in montana wrote i never said there wasnt plenty of active polygamy in utah. im stating its not in the mormon church as its not allowed in the mormon church. that does not mean it doesnt exist in the church. you already said they cant possibly know if someone is or isnt a polygamist. the general practice is the same as the militarys dont ask dont tell policy. to say it doesnt exist is absurd. .

From : Annonymous

on feb 14 1235 pm scott bigcummins2...@yahoo.com wrote im looking to tint the windows on my 92 ram. i was wondering what can i expect to pay at a tint shop to get the 2 front windows and sliding rear window tinted thanks man that is almost impossible to answer for you as the prices are going to swing greatly from city/state to city/state. you honest best bet is to pick up a phone and call some of your wutomotive glass repair shops or look up tint in the yellow pages. or drive to sierra vista az and there are a few places here where you can get the fronts and rear done for about a buck twenty five. .

From : craig c

on wed 14 feb 2007 090121 -0800 bg bg@nospam.com wrote gee - then you should have been following these religious threads a month ago or so. i dont typically follow religous threads. this one caught my attention because it involved the mormon church which i find intriguing because it threatens so many other self-righteous christians for some reason that i cannot explain or understand. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com same here plus i am a utahn. i think utah is a really good place to live. perhaps it is the mormans that make it so nice perhaps it is the isolation that makes it nice i dont know. it burns my ass when i hear people slam mormans as though they are somehow more fucked up than any other religion. a few years ago i was at an irish pub in new york city. the irish band somehow caught wind that i was from utah so the morman jokes immediately began to fly. especially about how many wives i had. the mormans didnt invent the concept of multiple wives but just because they practised it a hundred years ago that is all they are known for. bg good post bg. .

From : nathan in montana

bought a 02 dually with the 5.9ho lost fuel pump and injector pump in 600 miles. replaced both no codes drove 700 miles@ about 72mph then took an exit. stopped at first light after leaving the superslab and truck fell on its face pulling away from light..check engine light came on put it in neutral coasted 50 feet back into 2nd and had full power confused drove about a mile it did the same thing. parked the truck at the house next morning went out did the key deal obtained a dtc of if i remember correctly 1693 but no other codes. started truck check engine light went out and has ran fine since. i know the 1693 is a generic code. the only other point that i might add is the 700 miles of driving was in temps of 12f or lower and engine temp dropped from the normal 190 to 140 at the first light. is this just a freak because of the temp and then stopping or should i investigate further any comments appreciated. ya your sig sucks!! vietnam vets never die they died long ago! .

From : nathan in montana

it burns my ass when i hear people slam mormans as though they are somehow more fucked up than any other religion. same here. ive read and studied their doctrine and cannot figure out what it is about the mormons that threaten other christians to the point that they were burned out twice and force to move to utah. im convinced they were ultimately forced into polygamy because all these other self-righteous christians had killed all the young mormon males and it was necessary for the church to survive. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

since polygamy is a growing problem in utah the lds can take a strong public stance against it. many churches do take active roles against local problems in their society. they already do take a strong public stance against it. this doesnt obligate them to buying tv commercials on it. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote theres no need to. when they were practicing polygamy they were acting within the law social standards as well as the church law. in other words they werent doing anything considered wrong at that time. they had revelations that their supreme being instructed them to practice polygamy. no such revelations to stop ever occurred. sounds like the religion is man-created. hey miles........all religions are man created. i still support the concept however because of the good they bring to our world and try to deal with the bad. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote they didnt quote the policy at all. they stated that the church excommunicates those who practice polygamy thus proving my point. oh i see. some website says they excommunicate those who do but gives not a single example of such and you call it proof and where would they get such private interal information name two recent examples of the lds excommunicating known polygamists that were not also accused of more serious crimes involving underage women. now miles you know how ridiculous this request is. excommunications are private internal issues. nobody outside the church would have access to it. that said there were plenty of folks on the discovery channel documentary that ive referenced that were recently folks were in their 20s and 30s excommunicated for polygamy. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote real church taught them show me something anything to substantiate your statements. huh the flds practices the very teachings that were the foundation of the lds. you now are attempting to dispute what the teachings of smith and young were stop it with the red herrings. the flds practices policy and belief that was abolished by the lds church 117 years ago. the two are not one in the same. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

hes not interested in anything that shatters the dreams and thin bubble hes made around himself and the mormon presence in his town. youre a fool. my only reason for participating in this conversation at all is to bring clarity to your bullshit and lies. by trying to paint the flds and the lds churches with the same brush you are doing just that. lying. i wont deny the past of the mormon church but thats now that youre discussing here. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

theyre all the same in that regard. move to mexico. the family values in the catholic church there are far above whats found here in mormon families. no need. ive been married to and raised a family with a good catholic girl. yes they have a dedication to family but its not nearly as prominent as within the mormon church. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

on feb 12 220 pm stormin mormon cayoung61- &spambloc...@hotmail.com wrote hmm. changing the subject again -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. . no please dont because if we do we will never have a thread run long enough to beat the record currently held by the k&n debate!!!!!!!! .

From : nathan in montana

and there are plenty of active ones all over ujtah. see nathan. common knowledge. deal with it jackass. i never said there wasnt plenty of active polygamy in utah. im stating its not in the mormon church as its not allowed in the mormon church. jackass. as hard as you try to blame the lds church for what goes on in the flds church it just doesnt cut it. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

a man who has married multiple wives before the church changed their policy and wishes to remain in the church presently what does the church tell him is it o.k. since he went against their commandments before they became a commandment or does he have to divorce/anull the other marriages or is he simply excommunicated from the church and told he should learn to love hell since the mormon church abolished polygamy 117 years ago i dont think theres to much danger of that happening. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

you take away the right to discipline children in schools and threaten to throw the parents into jail if they discipline them i havent done anything like that. are you implying the mormon church doesnt know if its members has more than one wife absolutely. you cannot expect them to investigate the home of every member. when they find an incident of polygamy they kick them out of the church. what more do you want -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nosey

on mon 12 feb 2007 184750 -0800 the reverend natural light wrote around here nobody wants a car with over 100k miles so there are some real deals to be found. ill be looking in the 100-120k mile range. if a well maintained 4.7l could be good to 200k miles then im happy. if 120k is a typical service life then ill reconsider. i have 113k on my 2001 dakota quad 4.7 4x4 and the only real issues i have is the front rotors need replaced every 50k the transmission gave me fits after wait for 37k to change the oil but its working fine now the cooling fan makes a jet engine noise until it kicks out. the engine is solid as far as i can tell the rear-end and gear boxes appear to be fine and ive had the oil changed in the ever 15k every 4th engine oil change. i change the engine oil every 30004000 miles. i put different tires on the truck almost from the start - i have more of a high-speed mud/snow tire and it gets good traction in the snow. the only think i dont like about it is that i got the 3.913.9x something gear ratio and i get about 14mpg on the highway and 1214mph all other times. oh and when on a wet road from a stop it tends to spin the tires even in 4xd mode if i hit it a little hard - or if it hits those new white lines when im taking off. ive owned a dakota since 90 several of them and love them but im considering a toyota fj to replace this one. -- leythos spam999free@rrohio.com remove 999 for proper email address .

From : miles

bg wrote did to - did not - did to -----well yes there have been arrests. cant say for sure if there was any jail time or not but there have been arrests for polygamy right in the salt lake valley. and it had nothing to do with children it was for adult polyamists.. not according to slc police records. they state nobody has been arrested just for polygamy in several decades. there was always some other larger issue such as social services taxes etc. .

From : miles

azwiley1 wrote ahhh dont wast your money my not bluetooth phone has voice command. plus the nhtsb says hands free devices make no difference. its the talking on the phone and not paying attention to whats going on thats the danger. but the marketing is good odd some states are trying to make talking on a cell phone illegal. but hands free is okay.- hide quoted text - roy you are correct. what they are trying to do is get your hands back on the wheel and eyes hopefully back on the road that is why it is becoming illegal in states. what this guy is talking about iirc is a report that has been put out on the street that talking on the phone hands free or otherwise is dangerous and a root cause for a lot of accidents. also since not all cells have built in speakers well maybe they do and those that do the speaker isnt always that good bluetooth is a great way to go if you have to use your phone in your vehicle. but the studies all seem to say it doesnt matter much whether youre using the phone via hand or via mike/ear. something about the human mind being not as focused on its surroundings when speaking electronically versus someone right next to you. of course a person right next to the driver has the same or close to the same situation awareness as the driver so maybe that helps too. i dont think the brain part of why this is so is really understood. now food and drink in the car! i think thats one of the major driving distractions according to some of the studies ive heard about and that seems reasonably true to me. i think *everyone* has eaten or drunk something while driving at one time or another and it really can be quite distracting. its nice having confidence in that big dodge ram 4x4 toolin down the highway while fishing around in a bag for that last chicken mcnugget! you know myth busters done a thing comparing talking on a cell to being drunk..irrc talking on a cell was way worse than being drunk according to thier test. -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs. smh .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote the lds takes a very active role in society. to claim otherwise makes your argument totally transparent. they dont need to advertise on tv about polygamy because they dont practice polygamy. their advertisements are about whats important to them family. since polygamy is a growing problem in utah the lds can take a strong public stance against it. many churches do take active roles against local problems in their society. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote they didnt quote the policy at all. they stated that the church excommunicates those who practice polygamy thus proving my point. oh i see. some website says they excommunicate those who do but gives not a single example of such and you call it proof what a ridiculous request. no way to possibly know exactly how many but we know it happens because ive seen the interviews for myself. fine. name two recent examples of the lds excommunicating known polygamists that were not also accused of more serious crimes involving underage women. .

From : miles

on feb 9 1050 am azwiley1 azwil...@cox.net wrote on feb 9 955 am yabahoobs chendrik...@gmail.com wrote on feb 9 937 am tom lawrence tnloaswpraemnmcie...@earthlink.net wrote some kinda wierd star type screw. those are torx screws - pick up a set of torx screwdrivers at any auto parts store. you can get a whole set of torx bits the kind that fit a universal screwdriver for a few dollars. nice. thanks tom. iirc those are a t45 or t50 size torx. but like tom said i you just pick up a set of them. i got a set ranging from t8 to t55 with socket/ ratchet adaptors from checkers for about 10 bucks. yeah checkers helped me out. it was a quick fix. only problem was the cables are just slightly too short so my tailgate doesnt lay flat. oh well i guess thats what i get for cheapy online replacement parts... .

From : yabahoobs

on feb 13 619 am miles n...@nopers.com wrote nathan in montana wrote because one of their biggest revelations and fundemental religious practices and foundation has been denounced. bah. they reversed their policy happens all the time. yes i know. religions are based on what people make them to be rather than what their supreme being says it should be through so called revelations. of course. religions especially religions sitting on tremendous piles of money are not static entitities. they change. the demographics of their congregants change. their policy changes. they will go back on what they say like polygamy all the time. i dont see how this is such a hard concept for nate to grasp. .

From : miles

azwiley1 wrote i would like to see your proof as to where in cali or colo that they get 9 of snow dont say in the mountains because if you do you are comparing apples to dolly parton because now you would be throwing in a variable that would be impossible to duplicate. so it has to be low lying cities only or the heavy snows dont count almost all of the cities that get snow in ca or co are in the mountains. it doesnt snow much in the deserts! ok compare the eastern mountain towns. no comparison to the west there either. hell even flagstaff az. averages more snow than buffalo ny. .

From : miles

on feb 13 621 am miles n...@nopers.com wrote nathan in montana wrote ive found no other religion that places such an intense emphasis on family values. theyre all the same in that regard. move to mexico. the family values in the catholic church there are far above whats found here in mormon families. hes not interested in anything that shatters the dreams and thin bubble hes made around himself and the mormon presence in his town. .

From : yabahoobs

nathan in montana wrote because one of their biggest revelations and fundemental religious practices and foundation has been denounced. bah. they reversed their policy happens all the time. yes i know. religions are based on what people make them to be rather than what their supreme being says it should be through so called revelations. .

From : fat ass fred

howdy. im contemplating purchasing a used truck with the 4.7l v8. how long to these engines typically last just an average ballpark - i realize it has way more to do with maintenence. for example i wouldnt hesitate to buy a 5.2/5.9l with 100000 miles on the clock that had been well maintained. i did look up the price of the rebuilt long block and the cost is staggering. thanks! -rev suddenly without warning roger taxted exclaimed 12-feb-07 1106 am how many miles are on the truck u are thinking of purchasing i have read on allpar the 4.7 was designed for 150000+ miles. i own a 2004 dakota club cab 4x4 and have 41000 miles with no problems thus far. good luck rog my 2001 4.7l 4x4 has just over 50000 miles on it not as well-maintained as it should be due to being overseas no dodge mechanics/shops here and about 4x as expensive as in the us at the chrysler dealer and its running fine no problems. needs an oil change though jmc .

From : bg

on sun 11 feb 2007 155220 gmt fmb fmbb@sbcglobal.net wrote on sat 10 feb 2007 231532 -0500 napalmheart olsonfam@iserv.net wrote he said that he replaced it. but he also said it opened just before the water boiled and it was supposed to be a 195 degree thermostat.... but isnt that where 195*f resides just before water boils 212*f sounds like thermostat is good. fmb north mexico i was taught in my chemistry class that water boiled at 112 degrees farenheight or 100 degrees centigrade.... 212 degrees is pretty friggin hot! wear asbestos gloves near that water! .

From : nathan in montana

hahahahaha. you are pathetic. wanna be activist against an agenda that you only perceive. as opposed to actually existing. you might want to try living in reality. its alot better than living in grandious delusion. .

From : nathan in montana

..com link you sited did not show any evidence of enforcement. only what their policy states in words. id rather see actions than words that are not enforced. it says they do excommunicate polygamists. you cannot refute what it says. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

azwiley1 wrote stick around if you can handle it. not only will it get better but it will get worse. it used to be that 20% of the time it would get worse. now its 30% of the time that things get worse. thats a 50% increase. maybe so but the amount of horsepower that has been gained is unreal! .

From : bg

on sun 11 feb 2007 113622 -0700 nathan in montana montanajeeper@aol.com wrote please provide specific examples to support your statement. i need not cite anything translation -- i cannot substantiate my blind blanket statements .......im not surprised. im curious is montana and utah full of idiots or doe the majority of them just not get on the internet maybe they are too busy with the cows or something anyway seems like you only learned a few words in school and cant write anything beyond that 1-line that your big brother wrote down for you. i was taught in church that a person must continue learning as they continue in the church that they must not remain as a baby in the church never moving on beyond baptisim.... apparently your religion is different on that aspect as well.... dont worry about learning just paste this line of text on to every message anyone says that contridicts anything you want to hear.... everything will be all right..... yeah right thats exactly how some of the politicians get into office.... too many morons vote teh way their parents/employers tell them to vote and unfortiantly theres far more morons in this world than educated people. .

From : fat ass fred

1171249035.292188.267120@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com... can you substantiate that surely you have proof of your statement its common knowledge. mormons themselves will admit that. wake up buddy. we have a mormon temple here in billings. i know many mormons none of whom are anything less than the finest people you could ever hope to meet. lol...and relevance of their nice-ness to what im talking about i agree. mormons are generally nice people. you are so hypersensitive. im neither ignorant nor disliking of mormons. maybe you can pull your head out of your ass on this topic. the problem we have here is deep-rooted ignorance that stems from generations of anti-mormonism. i will criticize them to no end about the baker party massacre as that is factual and wrong. i will not however criticize them for things they just do not do. they wanted to normalize their appearance to outsiders. its common knowledge. wake up. when you consider that the mormans were burned out of new york state and then again out of missouri then dragged their asses to the most far off desolate wasteland of a desert just to have federal troups follow them and harrass them all over again you have to ask yourself just who the hell did they piss off anyway i dont have a clue but they must have done it really well. the fact is the mormans must have done something in their past to bring about all of this ridicule. the modern mormans have busted their butt to normalize as you put it. unlike most other religions that refuse to change the newer mormans have proved to be flexible. i think thats a good thing. but they need to start working on the birth control issue. bg .

From : fat ass fred

nathan in montana wrote i have their rules an unbiased link unbiased the lds is biased towards themselves. what you keep touting as evidence of enforcement is just a policy. its illegal in utah yet there hasnt been an arrest in decades for just polygamy. try again. show me. show me anything that substantiates that claim. you cant. youre speaking from a position of complete ignornace. polygamy was outlawed by the mormon church in 1890 and that law is enforced today. bull!! it is not enforced by the law nor the church. go ahead and try to show me any arrests for polygamy in utah in the last several decades. the church ignores it the same way. did to - did not - did to -----well yes there have been arrests. cant say for sure if there was any jail time or not but there have been arrests for polygamy right in the salt lake valley. and it had nothing to do with children it was for adult polyamists.. bg .

From : bg

on mon 12 feb 2007 065326 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote yabahoobs wrote the simple fact yes fact is that polygamy is the quiet embarassment of the modern lds church. they do very very little about it besides giving their public support for the occasional once or twice a year prosecution put forth by a brave utah prosecutor. the only time that happens is when underage girls are also a part of such polygamy. there hasnt been an arrest just for polygamy in a long time. how bout since the king freak flds guy was arrested. doesnt count. first he wasnt arrested in utah and second he wasnt arrested for polygamy only. if that were the only issue he would have been ignored. children were involved. this brings up another interesting question. a man who has married multiple wives before the church changed their policy and wishes to remain in the church presently what does the church tell him is it o.k. since he went against their commandments before they became a commandment or does he have to divorce/anull the other marriages or is he simply excommunicated from the church and told he should learn to love hell .

From : nathan in montana

bzzt. try again. you are trying to negate the fact that theres any connection there. http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/fundamentalistchurchofjesuschristoflatterdaysaints the fundamentalist church of jesus christ of latter day saints flds is a religious group of fundamentalists and may be americas largest practitioner of plural marriage.citation needed the church is not affiliated with the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints from which it split in the late 1890s after the mainstream church renounced polygamy. kick your feet all you want its clearly established that there is no connection. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

fat ass fred wrote theres a thought..... theyre constantly showing comercials around here for the church of ladder day saints.... why not put a spot in about them children being their most valuable resource and that they do not support hurting children in any way weather sexually physically or mentally..... itd be an awesome p.r. thing as i see it.... exactly! most churches take active roles in society. the lds takes a very active role in society. to claim otherwise makes your argument totally transparent. they dont need to advertise on tv about polygamy because they dont practice polygamy. their advertisements are about whats important to them family. it doesnt really matter what they could ever do it will never be enough for you. this much is clear. nathan seems to tell me theyre the type that just quietly keeps to themselves and cant take an active role in fighting the growing problem of polygamy in utah. i never said anything about that. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : yabahoobs

after starting my hubbies truck after about a week of not driving it i noticed it felt as if the power steering had gone out. i had this problem checked out by the mechanic a few weeks ago and he said that he could not find anything wrong with it. is it possible that the cold weather has an effect on this it seems to be ok after warming up but i dont wanna take a chance taking my baby girl in it. whatcha think -- posted at authors request using http//www.autoboardz.com interface articles individually verified to usenet standards. visit url to contact author/report abuse thread archive http//www.autoboardz.com/99-ram-1500-power-steering-ftopict206139.html .

From : yabahoobs

i have a 1999 dodge ram pickup 1500. the low beams work fine. the high beams will work if i hold the switch up toward the steering wheel. if i release the switch handle i have no lights at all. if i click the handle again the low beams come back on. do i need to replace the switch thanks. david -- posted at authors request using http//www.autoboardz.com interface articles individually verified to usenet standards. visit url to contact author/report abuse thread archive http//www.autoboardz.com/1999-ram-head-light-problem-ftopict205862.html .

From : nathan in montana

....of course you dont. there is no connection. the flds church was founded by excommunicated mormons who were kicked out for practicing polygamy against the lds laws. your argument has absolutely snipping self-riteous crap they were part of the church at one point. does the modern church do anything...absolutely anything to voice their opinion let alone take action against the evil flds excomminicato no. the answer is no. you dont need to ask me to provide a link to prove this because it. is. fact. you dont live here. you dont know what youre talking about. period. you still refuse to acknowledge that the flds isnt some ambiguous group of evil do-ers that popped up out of nowhere on the ut-az border. there was and still is a connection there. open your pathetic uninformed eyes. stop embarrassing yourself. .

From : yabahoobs

nathan in montana wrote no matter what the mormon church has done in the past including the baker party massacre their dedication to family is all that matters to me. most any respectable religion does that just the same. thats not anything unique about mormanism. having a ton of kids is though. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote the about.com link that i provided is neutral unbiased and states that they do. about.com link you sited did not show any evidence of enforcement. only what their policy states in words. id rather see actions than words that are not enforced. .

From : nathan in montana

by promoting wholesome family values we show what we support. no matter what the mormon church has done in the past including the baker party massacre their dedication to family is all that matters to me. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

why not post-mortem excommunicate them as individuals who no longer represent what the real church is all about theres no need to. when they were practicing polygamy they were acting within the law social standards as well as the church law. in other words they werent doing anything considered wrong at that time. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

about.com only quoted the ldss policy. they didnt quote the policy at all. they stated that the church excommunicates those who practice polygamy thus proving my point. please state the exact numbers of members excommunicated for polygamy only not child/sex offenses in the past couple decades. what a ridiculous request. no way to possibly know exactly how many but we know it happens because ive seen the interviews for myself. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

show me anything from a valid source not lds that shows that the mormon church enforces its own policy. the about.com link does just that. the very existance of the fdls church does just that. the discovery channel documentary did just that as most of their current membership were excommunicated by the mormon church for practicing polygamy. to continue http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/fundamentalistchurchofjesuschristoflatterdaysaints the cities were once known as short creek founded in 1913 as a ranching community; however it soon became a gathering place for polygamist members of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints.citation needed in 1935 the lds church excommunicated short creeks polygymist residents who refused to sign an oath renouncing polygyny after which the fundamentalists became more organized under the direction of john y. barlow the fundamentalist church of jesus christ of latter day saints flds is a religious group of fundamentalists and may be americas largest practitioner of plural marriage.citation needed the church is not affiliated with the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints from which it split in the late 1890s after the mainstream church renounced polygamy. so you are under the belief that the problem of polygamy in utah is getting smaller guess again. not what i said! i said that it doesnt exist with mormons. any exceptions are few far between and are excommunicated if discovered. about.com clearly states that the church excommunicates polygamists. what more do you want evidence of such excommunications. about.com says they do. the flds church is made up of people excommunicated. id say its clearly established. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

you eastern flatlanders have no clue as to what a heavy snowfall is. 9 feet is a lot for a couple day period but is quite common in california colorado and elsewhere in the west. no big deal. hey there bubba i resent that! i am one of those eastern flatlanders and i can tell you that 110 + over the course of a week is a lot of damn snowany where. hell it might have just set a new guinness record. what you dont know obviously is that over the course of a typical western/upstate ny winter specifically around lake o where it does not freeze over to have that much snow over the course of the winter is not uncommon. let me go back a few years to 01-02 when buffalo got 84 over a 36 iirc hour period want pictures i would like to see your proof as to where in cali or colo that they get 9 of snow dont say in the mountains because if you do you are comparing apples to dolly parton because now you would be throwing in a variable that would be impossible to duplicate. .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote no matter what the mormon church has done in the past including the baker party massacre their dedication to family is all that matters to me. most any respectable religion does that just the same. thats not anything unique about mormanism. having a ton of kids is though. ive found no other religion that places such an intense emphasis on family values. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

on feb 12 220 pm stormin mormon cayoung61- &spambloc...@hotmail.com wrote hmm. changing the subject again -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. . on feb 12 1047 am nathan in montana montanajee...@aol.com wrote and to solidify miles excellent distinction king freak of the flds was charged primarily with kiddie sex crimes and forcible marriage related stuff not applicable in a debate about mormons. the flds is not the mormon chruch. -- nathan in montanahttp//concealedcarryforum.comhttp//1911talk.comhttp//gl ockcarry.com oh i get it. once the church makes a declaration then history no longer exists. so england is of no use is any conversation regarding american history culture etc...sorry nate. your arguement has thouroughly been blown to bits. you cant just close your eyes and say that the mormons i know in my town in montana speak for all mormons the entire mormon church past present and future. goodnight and drive home safely. huh can you even fucking read .

From : nathan in montana

stormin mormon wrote why would the mormons denounce their first two prophets that would be absurd. because one of their biggest revelations and fundemental religious practices and foundation has been denounced. .

From : yabahoobs

tbone wrote statistical average hahahahahahahahahahahaha more right wing bullshit half truths. those statistics are meaningless unless associated with the air temps at the time but you knew that right temperatures are fairly repeatable from year to year but you already knew that right which is the first bit of evidence that things are changing. did you look at the air temp readings in relation to the water temp readings over time did you look at the air temp readings for the few times that it did freeze over oh wait no you didnt since you failed to look at noaas recorded readings. data taken out of contex or data missing key pieces is worthless but you knew that right now you claim they are meaningless anyways. thats not what i said but i am used to your lame spin. what i said was that the data is meaningless unless all of the revelant data is taken into account which as usual you didnt do. good grief do you run all over the place!! the variance is very low. what variance miles the water temp or the air temp or both lake erie is quite another story where temps vary widely from year to year. you do know why that is right what exactly does that have to do with this oh thats right not a damn thing. and how much more snow did they get you eastern flatlanders have no clue as to what a heavy snowfall is. 9 feet is a lot for a couple day period but is quite common in california colorado and elsewhere in the west. no big deal. once again you resort to meaningless data and smoke and mirrors. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : yabahoobs

yes 6 months ago it had a regular tune up. plugs wires etc... the check engine light comes and goes... thanks jeff do you have a check engine light on the truck has 91000 miles. it has not had a basic tune up in the past 6 months. the oil has been regularly changed and i did also change the air filter about 4 months ago. can we take your statement to mean it had a tune up done 6 months ago -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs. on feb 12 1248 pm bleeder973 sockdolager2k5@hotmaildotcom wrote hows everyone doing ive got a little issue with my truck and i was wondering if anyone might have some sort of an idea of what might be some possible causes and maybe some tips to correct it. the truck spits sputters and hiccups occasionally while accelerating. it seems to be getting worse as time goes by but it is gradual. i did try injector cleaner to no avail... im not exactly a mechanic but i am quite handy with a knife fork and spoon. just kidding... i do need a little input though. thanks jeff well i am sure some one will ask so i will to get it out the way. how many miles are on it has the basic services been performed plugs fuel filter etc. .

From : miles

tom lawrence wrote there apparently are some meteorologists who now want to decertify weathermen from ams professional membership that dont buy in to human caused global warming science. kinda reminds you of the time when people wanted to kill those who said the earth wasnt the center of the universe funny i was thinking of galileo when i wrote that! some things never change. smh what i find amusing tho is that our friends on the left are wanting to stifle debate on the subject. arent they always the ones who bitch the loudest about inclusion etc. guess that only applies if you agree with em. ;^ mike .

From : yabahoobs

on feb 12 534 pm miles n...@nopers.com wrote nathan in montana wrote no matter what the mormon church has done in the past including the baker party massacre their dedication to family is all that matters to me. most any respectable religion does that just the same. thats not anything unique about mormanism. having a ton of kids is though. any religion promotes centering life around the family. lol... .

From : miles

on feb 12 507 pm nathan in montana montanajee...@aol.com wrote oh i get it. once the church makes a declaration then history no longer exists. i have not addressed their history that is what it is. youre trying to blame the lds church for what the flds church is doing. no matter what the history your argument is without merit. then clearly you dont have an adequate grasp of the english language. the fact is there is a connection there whether you the current administrators of the lds church or anyone else wants to admit it. .

From : miles

on feb 12 506 pm nathan in montana montanajee...@aol.com wrote the real mormon church like any church is not a static entity. it responds to outside input. doesnt matter one bit! you are trying to hold the lds church responsible for what the flds church does. thats like holding dodge responsible for ford. bzzt. try again. you are trying to negate the fact that theres any connection there. .

From : miles

fat ass fred wrote theres a thought..... theyre constantly showing comercials around here for the church of ladder day saints.... why not put a spot in about them children being their most valuable resource and that they do not support hurting children in any way weather sexually physically or mentally..... itd be an awesome p.r. thing as i see it.... exactly! most churches take active roles in society. nathan seems to tell me theyre the type that just quietly keeps to themselves and cant take an active role in fighting the growing problem of polygamy in utah. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote unbiased the lds is biased towards themselves. lds does not own or influcence about.com about.com only quoted the ldss policy. they made no claims whatsoever about the lds actually enforcing that policy. 2- are you claiming then that the mormon church hasnt excommunicated anybody for polygamy in several decades please state the exact numbers of members excommunicated for polygamy only not child/sex offenses in the past couple decades. .

From : miles

ignoramus18738@nospam.18738.invalid says... i made a trailer and want to get it weighed. went to a truck stop but my trailer was too light for their scales. any other suggestions this thread is unbelievable as to how much conversation it has generated. to weigh a trailer you do what has been done for the last 50 years - you go to a truck stop weigh the truck and trailer together unhook the trailer and then weigh just the truck. with just the trailer on the scale and the truck off the scale gives you trailer axle weight. .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote flds is not the mormon church! they are an entirely different church made up of former members who were excommunicated from the real mormon church. except they practice what the real church taught them. smith had revelations about. the two prophecies smith and young and based a large part of their religion on. how can a religion change based on outside public influence maybe a fake religion can. .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote ive now provided you with multiple links that state the mormon church denounces polygamy. i have asked you repeatedly to show me how they have actively enforced those policies. the truth is they do no such thing. they turn their back and ignore the problem. please give me something from a valid source to substantiate that claim. anything. please. show me anything from a valid source not lds that shows that the mormon church enforces its own policy. you cant because they have a history of ignoring it. all these polygamists that you claim exists so you are under the belief that the problem of polygamy in utah is getting smaller guess again. the excommunicate members for it. again what more can they do show me how many they have done that to. fact is they ignore it. i dont doubt that its growing in utah. i do however doubt that its happening within the real mormon church. what % of the utah population are lds members what is its growth rate within utah about.com clearly states that the church excommunicates polygamists. what more do you want evidence of such excommunications. not just words telling me about a policy. its illegal as well in utah. when was the last time anyone was arrested in utah for polygamy the fact is the law the people and the church in utah flat out ignore it. .

From : miles

likewise anyone envolved in the schools that allows a teacher to get away with having sex with students is again guilty of breaking the law by not turning them into the appropriate authorities. its called aiding and embedding and its punishable by jail time. fred wtf are you talking about and how does it apply to this particular conversation -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

tbone wrote statistical average hahahahahahahahahahahaha more right wing bullshit half truths. those statistics are meaningless unless associated with the air temps at the time but you knew that right temperatures are fairly repeatable from year to year but you already knew that right oh wait no you didnt since you failed to look at noaas recorded readings. now you claim they are meaningless anyways. good grief do you run all over the place!! the variance is very low. lake erie is quite another story where temps vary widely from year to year. you do know why that is right and how much more snow did they get you eastern flatlanders have no clue as to what a heavy snowfall is. 9 feet is a lot for a couple day period but is quite common in california colorado and elsewhere in the west. no big deal. .

From : azwiley1

oh by the way i forgot to mention that minehas the 4.7 engine also sorry rog how many miles are on the truck u are thinking of purchasing i have read on allpar the 4.7 was designed for 150000+ miles. i own a 2004 dakota club cab 4x4 and have 41000 miles with no problems thus far. good luck rog howdy. im contemplating purchasing a used truck with the 4.7l v8. how long to these engines typically last just an average ballpark - i realize it has way more to do with maintenence. for example i wouldnt hesitate to buy a 5.2/5.9l with 100000 miles on the clock that had been well maintained. i did look up the price of the rebuilt long block and the cost is staggering. thanks! -rev .

From : stormin mormon

on feb 12 256 pm stephen harding smhardin...@msn.com wrote azwiley1 wrote ahhh dont wast your money my not bluetooth phone has voice command. plus the nhtsb says hands free devices make no difference. its the talking on the phone and not paying attention to whats going on thats the danger. but the marketing is good odd some states are trying to make talking on a cell phone illegal. but hands free is okay.- hide quoted text - roy you are correct. what they are trying to do is get your hands back on the wheel and eyes hopefully back on the road that is why it is becoming illegal in states. what this guy is talking about iirc is a report that has been put out on the street that talking on the phone hands free or otherwise is dangerous and a root cause for a lot of accidents. also since not all cells have built in speakers well maybe they do and those that do the speaker isnt always that good bluetooth is a great way to go if you have to use your phone in your vehicle. but the studies all seem to say it doesnt matter much whether youre using the phone via hand or via mike/ear. that might be true for those that were studied and i am not going to agrue the facts however if we are going to study things like this why not all the other things that are a distraction/hinderance to driving. examples putting on make-up eating/drinking like you mentioned the radio watching video navigation systems changing clothes laying down laying on the passenger seat i personally think/feel that i would rather have someone on a hands free cell call or on-star system then the little pants around my ankles punk ass kid in a 4x4 dodge laying down behind the steering wheel. something about the human mind being not as focused on its surroundings when speaking electronically versus someone right next to you. i would say that this is the same affliction that effects those listening to music bouncing around in their seat vice driving. of course a person right next to the driver has the same or close to the same situation awareness as the driver so maybe that helps too. this is a very good point and could be true as the passenger doesnt likely want to die .

From : stormin mormon

yeah i dont think many people will be paying much attention to aiding and embedding guy. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. on mon 12 feb 2007 150832 -0600 fat ass fred fatass@mlc-group.net wrote its called aiding and embedding and its punishable by jail time. well you pretty much fucked up your argument by using two situations where you are talking out your ass. from the paragraph above you have absolutley no idea what the fuck you are talking about. none at all. looks like you just picked out two things and threw them in here hoping that youd sound like you actually knew something. if your accuracy in the whole religion debate is anywhere near what it is in what you just said.............well nathan is gonna kick your ass in this one. .

From : roy

azwiley1 wrote ahhh dont wast your money my not bluetooth phone has voice command. plus the nhtsb says hands free devices make no difference. its the talking on the phone and not paying attention to whats going on thats the danger. but the marketing is good odd some states are trying to make talking on a cell phone illegal. but hands free is okay.- hide quoted text - roy you are correct. what they are trying to do is get your hands back on the wheel and eyes hopefully back on the road that is why it is becoming illegal in states. what this guy is talking about iirc is a report that has been put out on the street that talking on the phone hands free or otherwise is dangerous and a root cause for a lot of accidents. also since not all cells have built in speakers well maybe they do and those that do the speaker isnt always that good bluetooth is a great way to go if you have to use your phone in your vehicle. but the studies all seem to say it doesnt matter much whether youre using the phone via hand or via mike/ear. something about the human mind being not as focused on its surroundings when speaking electronically versus someone right next to you. of course a person right next to the driver has the same or close to the same situation awareness as the driver so maybe that helps too. i dont think the brain part of why this is so is really understood. now food and drink in the car! i think thats one of the major driving distractions according to some of the studies ive heard about and that seems reasonably true to me. i think *everyone* has eaten or drunk something while driving at one time or another and it really can be quite distracting. its nice having confidence in that big dodge ram 4x4 toolin down the highway while fishing around in a bag for that last chicken mcnugget! smh .

From : Annonymous

on feb 12 142 pm roy r...@home.net wrote roy wrote aceman wrote whats a uconnect a bluetooth hands free thing for your cell phone. cell has to be bluetooth as well. i finally have a bluetooth phone and it is pretty cool. once you give it a list of names and numbers it will dial them by voice command. imho it is a super safety improvement. ahhh dont wast your money my not bluetooth phone has voice command. plus the nhtsb says hands free devices make no difference. its the talking on the phone and not paying attention to whats going on thats the danger. but the marketing is good odd some states are trying to make talking on a cell phone illegal. but hands free is okay.- hide quoted text - - show quoted text - roy you are correct. what they are trying to do is get your hands back on the wheel and eyes hopefully back on the road that is why it is becoming illegal in states. what this guy is talking about iirc is a report that has been put out on the street that talking on the phone hands free or otherwise is dangerous and a root cause for a lot of accidents. also since not all cells have built in speakers well maybe they do and those that do the speaker isnt always that good bluetooth is a great way to go if you have to use your phone in your vehicle. it would seem so to me. hell of a lot easier to hit a button on a mirror while in rush hour traffic than to fumble with a phone. .

From : yabahoobs

there apparently are some meteorologists who now want to decertify weathermen from ams professional membership that dont buy in to human caused global warming science. kinda reminds you of the time when people wanted to kill those who said the earth wasnt the center of the universe .

From : nathan in montana

you have yet to show any proof of the mormon church enforcing policies against polygamy. the about.com link that i provided is neutral unbiased and states that they do. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

tell me when did the mormon church denounce smith and young from their church they didnt at all. exactly and it is unrelated to this conversation. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

and to solidify miles excellent distinction king freak of the flds was charged primarily with kiddie sex crimes and forcible marriage related stuff not applicable in a debate about mormons. the flds is not the mormon chruch. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

embedding to include something in something else. the sand was embedded in the paint. abetting to encourage or to help. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. any cop who fails to turn in an officer of the law for corrupt action regardless of how minor is guilty of breaking the law himself. every day cops are allowed to speed in their personal vehichles during off-duty hours becase they want to get to taco bell before it closes or some other ridicalous excuse. any cop who tells them not to worry about it is guilty of breaking the law. likewise anyone envolved in the schools that allows a teacher to get away with having sex with students is again guilty of breaking the law by not turning them into the appropriate authorities. its called aiding and embedding and its punishable by jail time. .

From : fat ass fred

hmm. changing the subject again -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. on feb 12 1047 am nathan in montana montanajee...@aol.com wrote and to solidify miles excellent distinction king freak of the flds was charged primarily with kiddie sex crimes and forcible marriage related stuff not applicable in a debate about mormons. the flds is not the mormon chruch. -- nathan in montanahttp//concealedcarryforum.comhttp//1911talk.comhttp//gl ockcarry.com oh i get it. once the church makes a declaration then history no longer exists. so england is of no use is any conversation regarding american history culture etc...sorry nate. your arguement has thouroughly been blown to bits. you cant just close your eyes and say that the mormons i know in my town in montana speak for all mormons the entire mormon church past present and future. goodnight and drive home safely. .

From : fat ass fred

on feb 12 142 pm roy r...@home.net wrote roy wrote aceman wrote whats a uconnect a bluetooth hands free thing for your cell phone. cell has to be bluetooth as well. i finally have a bluetooth phone and it is pretty cool. once you give it a list of names and numbers it will dial them by voice command. imho it is a super safety improvement. ahhh dont wast your money my not bluetooth phone has voice command. plus the nhtsb says hands free devices make no difference. its the talking on the phone and not paying attention to whats going on thats the danger. but the marketing is good odd some states are trying to make talking on a cell phone illegal. but hands free is okay.- hide quoted text - - show quoted text - roy you are correct. what they are trying to do is get your hands back on the wheel and eyes hopefully back on the road that is why it is becoming illegal in states. what this guy is talking about iirc is a report that has been put out on the street that talking on the phone hands free or otherwise is dangerous and a root cause for a lot of accidents. also since not all cells have built in speakers well maybe they do and those that do the speaker isnt always that good bluetooth is a great way to go if you have to use your phone in your vehicle. .

From : fat ass fred

on sun 11 feb 2007 155557 -0700 nathan in montana montanajeeper@aol.com wrote the mormon church has failed to take a strong public stance against sex offenders in their church. what would you recommend they do buy tv commercials you arent being realistic and you arent being specific in your recommendations. if theyre doing a bad job tell me how they could do it better. for the record they have taken a very strong public stance against polygamy. once such example lives at http//www.mormon.org/question/faq/category/answer/097771601-1-114-100.html theres a thought..... theyre constantly showing comercials around here for the church of ladder day saints.... why not put a spot in about them children being their most valuable resource and that they do not support hurting children in any way weather sexually physically or mentally..... itd be an awesome p.r. thing as i see it.... .

From : roy

on sun 11 feb 2007 124849 -0700 nathan in montana montanajeeper@aol.com wrote and again i will state that these practices are against the rules of the mormon church. if they are real mormons then they are acting outside of the practices beliefs teachings and rules of the church. every year there are school teachers who are arrested for sleeping with their students. this does not mean the school system itself did anything wrong. every year there are police officers who are arrested for committing all sorts of crimes. this does not mean the police department itself did anything wrong. so long as the mormon church official policy is against polygamy and their teachings are consistant with their rules then you cannot hold them responsible for what people do on their own members or not as they are doing it in contradiction to the teachings practices and beliefs of the church.. any cop who fails to turn in an officer of the law for corrupt action regardless of how minor is guilty of breaking the law himself. every day cops are allowed to speed in their personal vehichles during off-duty hours becase they want to get to taco bell before it closes or some other ridicalous excuse. any cop who tells them not to worry about it is guilty of breaking the law. likewise anyone envolved in the schools that allows a teacher to get away with having sex with students is again guilty of breaking the law by not turning them into the appropriate authorities. its called aiding and embedding and its punishable by jail time. .

From : azwiley1

roy wrote aceman wrote whats a uconnect a bluetooth hands free thing for your cell phone. cell has to be bluetooth as well. i finally have a bluetooth phone and it is pretty cool. once you give it a list of names and numbers it will dial them by voice command. imho it is a super safety improvement. ahhh dont wast your money my not bluetooth phone has voice command. plus the nhtsb says hands free devices make no difference. its the talking on the phone and not paying attention to whats going on thats the danger. but the marketing is good .

From : yabahoobs

unless that dealer has good cummins diesel mechanics i would rather take it to a authorized cummins service center myself i had some questionable experience from the dodge dealer and their diesel mechanics. have 2004 dodge cummins never been back to dealer simply because my 1995 was better serviced by cummins at least for the engine. emil i always take my dodge vehicles to a 5 star dealer. ive never had a problem. ive got a 2006 cummins with about 2500 miles on it. in the last week or so it appears to occasionally be missing on a cylinder. usually its in the first couple of minutes of driving but not always. i guess the prudent thing to do is just bring it to the dealer and i plan on it but any opinions sazrac .

From : stormin mormon

on feb 12 1047 am nathan in montana montanajee...@aol.com wrote and to solidify miles excellent distinction king freak of the flds was charged primarily with kiddie sex crimes and forcible marriage related stuff not applicable in a debate about mormons. the flds is not the mormon chruch. -- nathan in montanahttp//concealedcarryforum.comhttp//1911talk.comhttp//glockcarry.com oh i get it. once the church makes a declaration then history no longer exists. so england is of no use is any conversation regarding american history culture etc...sorry nate. your arguement has thouroughly been blown to bits. you cant just close your eyes and say that the mormons i know in my town in montana speak for all mormons the entire mormon church past present and future.goodnight and drive home safely. .

From : nathan in montana

at some point it becomes useless to discuss the matter with some folks. i sense that point has been reached. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. you have yet to show any proof of the mormon church enforcing policies against polygamy. the about.com link that i provided is neutral unbiased and states that they do. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

mike simmons wrote posted without comment http//www.timesonline.co.uk/tol//uk/article1363818.ece it bugs me when science gets polluted by politics. there apparently are some meteorologists who now want to decertify weathermen from ams professional membership that dont buy in to human caused global warming science. it seems i now have to quote science because we cant be certain how much of what it says is science and how much is politics. nothing new; been that way for centuries. still annoying. smh .

From : nathan in montana

unbiased the lds is biased towards themselves. lds does not own or influcence about.com bull!! it is not enforced by the law nor the church. go ahead and try to show me any arrests for polygamy in utah in the last several decades. the church ignores it the same way. 1- i cannot speak for law enforcement. law enforcement does not represent the mormon church nor does the mormon church represent law enforcement. 2- are you claiming then that the mormon church hasnt excommunicated anybody for polygamy in several decades you did afterall state that they dont enforce their polygamy rules until after someone is arrested and now you state that nobody has been arrested for decades therefore if you are correct nobody has been excommunicated for polygamy in decades right -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

show yourself you fucking vegetable. translaiton -- no i cannot prove anything ive said how bout since the king freak flds guy was arrested. flds is not the mormon church! they are an entirely different church made up of former members who were excommunicated from the real mormon church. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

a wittle more information and theyll have the whole joke. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon cayoung61-&spamblock*-@hotmail.com wrote in message any man who goes to a truck stop and cant get weighed is doing something wrong. youre pathetic. if you know the joke the above statement is funny. happy to tell the joke if someone asks. speech impediment g .

From : miles

robertpatrick wrote the miles character making all the dumb statements knows nothing about lake effect and how it all works and what happens. right ontario doesnt freeze over. i see. guess im wrong. the snow is the result of a lack of ice on lake ontario. good grief you and tbone are hilarious!! next thing that miles will claims is that hes the father of anna nicoles baby. ya i did her. shes ok but wasnt worth the money she paid me. hmmm... she claimed the same about you. said you were a little prick. vbg .

From : miles

yabahoobs wrote the simple fact yes fact is that polygamy is the quiet embarassment of the modern lds church. they do very very little about it besides giving their public support for the occasional once or twice a year prosecution put forth by a brave utah prosecutor. the only time that happens is when underage girls are also a part of such polygamy. there hasnt been an arrest just for polygamy in a long time. how bout since the king freak flds guy was arrested. doesnt count. first he wasnt arrested in utah and second he wasnt arrested for polygamy only. if that were the only issue he would have been ignored. children were involved. .

From : yabahoobs

tbone wrote no but record warm water temps for this time of year are and warm water releases far more humidity into the air than cold water. could you back peddal any faster. noaa and doa readings show 33-34f which is about the statistical average. any colder and it would be frozen which it rarely does. really please list all of the areas dealing with 9 feet of snow. colorado for starters. they have a huge lake that didnt freeze over because of global warming as well .

From : yabahoobs

tbone wrote you are correct miles it doesnt normally freeze but by this time of the year the water is usually damn cold and gives off little humidity. this year due to the global warming that you stupidly refuse to believe exists the water is still piss warm and is dumping tons of humidity into these storms. the noaa and doa stats do not back up your claims. they both show lake ontario surface temps to be about average. they were slightly above average in the fall and below average last spring and early summer. go ahead take a look for yourself since you failed to do so prior to making this statement. just like you should have looked up whether it even freezes over before making your prior claim of such. .

From : miles

on feb 12 623 am miles n...@nopers.com wrote nathan in montana wrote the problem is ignorance on this subject. the mormon church denounces polygamy. that simply is not true. yes they have a policy against it but they pretty much look the other way unless it becomes a public issue. they answer the the public pressure rather than enforce their own policy on its own. the police do exactly the same. they too look the other way despite it being their policy law against such activity. thats just bull. warnings from the public is not a specific recommendation. tell me what you think they should be doing. geez nathan!! it is a growing issue not one thats shrinking as you seem to think. he wants to think alot of things. he seems to be another uninformed blind sheep. then show me something that substantiates that it is in the church. its no surprise that it would be rampant in utah as that is the original home of the mormon church and its also where those excommunicated for the simple fact yes fact is that polygamy is the quiet embarassment of the modern lds church. they do very very little about it besides giving their public support for the occasional once or twice a year prosecution put forth by a brave utah prosecutor. then you tell me what they can do they h

From : miles

on feb 12 629 am yabahoobs chendrik...@gmail.com wrote on feb 12 623 am miles n...@nopers.com wrote nathan in montana wrote the problem is ignorance on this subject. the mormon church denounces polygamy. that simply is not true. yes they have a policy against it but they pretty much look the other way unless it becomes a public issue. they answer the the public pressure rather than enforce their own policy on its own. the police do exactly the same. they too look the other way despite it being their policy law against such activity. thats just bull. warnings from the public is not a specific recommendation. tell me what you think they should be doing. geez nathan!! it is a growing issue not one thats shrinking as you seem to think. he wants to think alot of things. he seems to be another uninformed blind sheep. then show me something that substantiates that it is in the church. its no surprise that it would be rampant in utah as that is the original home of the mormon church and its also where those excommunicated for the simple fact yes fact is that polygamy is the quiet embarassment of the modern lds church. they do very very little about it besides giving their public support for the occasional once or twice a year prosecution put forth by a brave utah prosecutor. then you tell me what they can do they have laws that they enforce what more do you want consistent voice and action in the utah public spotlight couldnt hurt nathan...just a thought. they do not enforce anything. the law enforcement officials do not either. when was the last time anyone was arrested for polygamy in utah without also being arrested for child sex crimes the mormon church turns its back just the same as law enforcement. living in montana nathan wouldnt be aware of this...without minimal time spent looking through public domain . - show me something to substantiate that. show yourself you fucking vegetable. public domain . its your friend. the only ones ever excommunicated for polygamy are those arrested by law enforcement first. got any idea how long its been since even that occurred in utah its been a long long time. how bout since the king freak flds guy was arrested...as if he was the be-all end all of polygamy in utah. hell there are known polygamy neighborhoods in salt lake county. but again nathan wouldnt know that living in an isolated town with an isolated mormon temple in the middle of montana. and to solidify miles excellent distinction king freak of the flds was charged primarily with kiddie sex crimes and forcible marriage related stuff...i cant remember the last pure polygamy case brought forth in utah. .

From : miles

more do you want consistent voice and action in the utah public spotlight couldnt hurt nathan...just a thought. they do not enforce anything. the law enforcement officials do not either. when was the last time anyone was arrested for polygamy in utah without also being arrested for child sex crimes the mormon church turns its back just the same as law enforcement. living in montana nathan wouldnt be aware of this...without minimal time spent looking through public domain . - show me something to substantiate that. show yourself you fucking vegetable. public domain . its your friend. the only ones ever excommunicated for polygamy are those arrested by law enforcement first. got any idea how long its been since even that occurred in utah its been a long long time. how bout since the king freak flds guy was arrested...as if he was the be-all end all of polygamy in utah. hell there are known polygamy neighborhoods in salt lake county. but again nathan wouldnt know that living in an isolated town with an isolated mormon temple in the middle of montana. . 222 329983 gxzzh.9709$0y4.510@fe14.phx nathan in montana wrote its still ignorance that runs rampant to this very day. its bad outdated information that no longer applies to the real mormon church that abolished polygamy over 100 years ago. it is huh ok tell me when did the mormon church denounce smith and young from their church they didnt at all. they now teach only selective revelations of smith good grief. .

From : yabahoobs

on 11 feb 2007 160424 -0800 wolfie dplusoneusa@netscape.net wrote on feb 11 946 am ignoramus18738 ignoramus18...@nospam. 18738.invalid wrote i made a trailer and want to get it weighed. went to a truck stop but my trailer was too light for their scales. any other suggestions i the truck scales around here can weigh the difference between a full tank and half-full when i roll across on my bike. if you dont have any locally try an aggregate yard; their scales are precise to the pound or better. wolfie or any concrete batching plant. beekeep .

From : nathan in montana

azwiley1 wrote besides as the topic reads the thread is about ny not the plains. so their weather really has little bearing or relevance. thats true but the lack of ice on lake ontario because of global warming isnt the cause for the lake effect snow in ny. you are correct. being that lake o almost never freezes g.w. has no bearing on things. now to say that lake e has taken so long to freeze could be related to g.w. posted without comment http//www.timesonline.co.uk/tol//uk/article1363818.ece mike .

From : yabahoobs

azwiley1 wrote besides as the topic reads the thread is about ny not the plains. so their weather really has little bearing or relevance. thats true but the lack of ice on lake ontario because of global warming isnt the cause for the lake effect snow in ny. face it miles your wrong. get over it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : nathan in montana

hk wrote lake ontario - it *is* lake effect. geesh! the last time lake ontario froze was 1976 and before that was 1934. tbones claim of global warming causing lake effect snow because of lack of freezing on lake ontario is pure bs. you are correct miles it doesnt normally freeze but by this time of the year the water is usually damn cold and gives off little humidity. this year due to the global warming that you stupidly refuse to believe exists the water is still piss warm and is dumping tons of humidity into these storms. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : nathan in montana

i am trying to figure out which kelsey-hayes abs system is on my 96 ram 4x4. i know it has the 4 wheel abs instead of the rwal. does the 4 wheel abs system correspond to the kelsey-hayes ebc-5h or ebc-310 system or am i way of base here i am trying to get the correct diagnostic manual for the abs system for my truck and there seems to be a few choices. thanks in advance. .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote the problem we have here is deep-rooted ignorance that stems from generations of anti-mormonism. that anti-mormonism started from the early days of mormonism. smith and young are not the type to be looked up to as examples of fine decent people. its still ignorance that runs rampant to this very day. its bad outdated information that no longer applies to the real mormon church that abolished polygamy over 100 years ago. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

you have nothing beyond loose policy statements to back up your claims i have their rules an unbiased link http//lds.about.com/library/weekly/previousyears/aa042799a.htm as well as many references to folks being miscommunicated for polygamy just do a yahoo search enter excommunicated mormon polygamy and read all you care to!. all ive asked you for is what you think they should do specifically. you simply do not respond. in a policy are worthless. the only enforcement is at the hands of law enforcement show me. show me anything that substantiates that claim. you cant. youre speaking from a position of complete ignornace. polygamy was outlawed by the mormon church in 1890 and that law is enforced today. you cant tell me what you want them to do but you continue to say they arent doing enough. tell me miles what is enough what should they be doing ah yes your knowledge comes from the discovery channel yes. conversations with the very polygamists themselves. and guess what.....none of them are lds mormons. they are fundamentalist lds which is another church entirely. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote the problem we have here is deep-rooted ignorance that stems from generations of anti-mormonism. that anti-mormonism started from the early days of mormonism. smith and young are not the type to be looked up to as examples of fine decent people. .

From : stormin mormon

im a bit more concerned about the group that has been saying make fun of muhammed and well riot in the streets. and then saying convert all you infedel or well behead you all. heh.....i gotta agree! -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

now here lies the problem in your thinking. you see the issue as benign polygamy. the church and the law pretty much looks the other way with regards to polygamy. the problem is ignorance on this subject. the mormon church denounces polygamy. it is a clear violation of their own laws that they enforce with excommuncation. they cannot possibly investigate every member that is ridiculous. you continue to criticize what they do but you have yet to tell me specifically what you think they should be doing. its the exploitation of underage girls thats at issue. its not as rare as you may think. then surely you have proof of anything you claim start by listening to warnings from the public rather than attempts to cover it up. thats just bull. warnings from the public is not a specific recommendation. tell me what you think they should be doing. should they hire private investigators to research each and every member give me something here. what should they do miles polygamy has been growing steadily throughout utah for decades nathan. to say its a problem just outside the church would be absurd. then show me something that substantiates that it is in the church. its no surprise that it would be rampant in utah as that is the original home of the mormon church and its also where those excommunicated for polygamy settled and started their own versions of the mormon church. youre holding the mormon church responsible for the fundamentalist churches that try to label themselves as mormons. show me where it is enforced beyond just words or a result of large scale public outcrying you cant. http//lds.about.com/library/weekly/previousyears/aa042799a.htm from about.com it clearly outlines the laws of the church how its enforced and even the misconceptions that you cling to. please read it. they have turned their backs on it. as you keep maintaining there is nothing they can do about it. then you tell me what they can do they have laws that they enforce what more do you want published policies are meaningless without action. they do absolutely nothing unless some outside influence law officials or general public forces them too. show me something to substantiate that. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

azwiley1 wrote besides as the topic reads the thread is about ny not the plains. so their weather really has little bearing or relevance. thats true but the lack of ice on lake ontario because of global warming isnt the cause for the lake effect snow in ny. gawd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there is lake effect snow every year. stop picking apart each and every little word. geesh! .

From : yabahoobs

can you substantiate that surely you have proof of your statement its common knowledge. ......then it should be rather easy for you to prove. prove it. show me something to substantiate your ridiculous statements. anything. we have a mormon temple here in billings. i know many mormons none of whom are anything less than the finest people you could ever hope to meet. lol...and relevance of their nice-ness to what im talking about my original quote is intact. wshow me anywhere i stated anything about niceness. i said they were the finest people you could ever hope to meet. people who practice polygamy or otherwise break the law are not amongst the finest people you could ever hope to meet. they wanted to normalize their appearance to outsiders. its common knowledge. wake up. substantiate your statements. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

scrap yard or recycling center. the one near me has a scale which reads in 20 pound increments. drive on. detach trailer. drive on again. subtract. you went to a truck stop and couldnt get weighed thats pathetic man! anyone remember the want to get weighed joke ill tell it if you ask. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. ignoramus18738 ignoramus18738@nospam.18738.invalid wrote in i made a trailer and want to get it weighed. went to a truck stop but my trailer was too light for their scales. any other suggestions i .

From : nathan in montanastormin mormon

i criticized lds and mormons as a whole. the bom is book used to substitute the beliefs that they choose not to follow from the bible. like taking only one wife for example. cy i cant remember the details but a couple of the old testament guys had multiple wives. or the three levels of heaven cy mentioned in corinthians. and how much wealth you aquire while on earth decides which level of heaven you get to ascend to. cy actually the degrees of glory are based on religious ordinances and keeping the commandments. they have nothing to do with accumulating wealth. a peasant can be exalted every bit as much as a corporate president. more likely cause the peasants are typically humble. where do you come up with these lies about mormons what about the scripture that states that a person should be storing up treasures in heaven rather than on earth seems that it has been overridden no cy backwards. actually the lds folks are big on charity. we do a really good job of storing treasures in heaven. so you read the opinions of other authors. youre basing your opinion on the opinion of others instead of reading the book for yourself. jesus. the opinions are documented fact of wrongdoing from within the mormon church. including marrying men to multiple wives sometimes in their early teens within the church. i have seen with my own eyes and talked to a mormon family consisting of one man and eight wives and scores of little snot-nosed kids. their house looks like a hotel. respected members of their church. now you can call that opinion if you want but why wear blinders cy since the lds church outlawed polygamy in 1890 the guy must be about 130 years old. if you read it for yourself and then criticize it at least you know first hand what you are criticising. my time is spent reading books that actually serve humanity not take the life and values from them. there is some seriously fucked up shit going on out there. heh.....there is some seriously fucked up shit going on in all religions. 100% agreed. i dont have to read the book of mormon to know that it was written by a man with fucked up values. we arent debating the values of the translator. were debating the values of the content of the book of mormon itself. stay on topic please. garbage in garbage out. i am on topic. are you advocating that i/we take the writings of a morally challenged man as inspired im advocating reading the book that youre criticizing. nothing more. read it why what could i possibly gain from it cy you might find out what the book actually contains. instead of relying on others opinions. i dont have to read it to know that it is a book written by a loony. you have to read it to criticize the book itself. true. im criticizing the church and its members. the book is just another piece of a very messed up puzzle. i can look at the followers and know that it contains guidance that is in direct violation of good values ... the mormons i know are some of the finest folks ive ever met. exactly what are you referencing with this statement polygamy. the church knowingly marrying off young girls to old men who already have multiple wives. the multiple wife thing is not a mormon value. the multiple wife thing is against the rules of the mormon church. bullshit. i might believe that had i not seen it with my own eyes. polygamy is part of their past present and future. cy must be some pretty old guys since the lds church stopped polygamy 117 years ago. however to answer your question it is the mormon committment to the family that i have such high respect for. so you like the idea of have multiple wives under the age of 16 rotating them in and out of your bedroom by week popping out malnurished children with them what is it that you respect again craig c. .

From : stormin mormon

have you noticed that the family is under assault from every which what direction welfare dads dont stay home. parents authority is under attack californias bill about spanking kids. schools give out birth control without parents permission and take girls in for abortions without notifying parents or asking parents permission. and we wonder why crime and immorality are on the rise -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. however to answer your question it is the mormon committment to the family that i have such high respect for. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

just filter the word mormon from the subject line and all this will disappear. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. guys could we please get off this subject and back on track with dodge trucks please two things that will always cause problems is the discussion of politics and religion. thanks! gary - kb9vgd very true! and 73 de kf4drr -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs. .

From : stormin mormon

ah some misinformation. mormons stopped polygamy in 1890. if someones got multiple wives its not a mormon doing it. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. if mormons kept it at just having multiple wives the law wouldnt be so hard on them lately. the problem is these wives are often just kids essentially forced into marriage. this isnt just in outcast sects such as colorado city az. its been happening in utah as well. that causes the law to dig even deeper into the mainstream church as well because the problem is widespread. if the churches throughout the world took an active role in cleaning up and protecting their own religion then these self-rightous imposers wouldnt have as loud of a case against them. .

From : stormin mormon

im a bit more concerned about the group that has been saying make fun of muhammed and well riot in the streets. and then saying convert all you infedel or well behead you all. somehow i find the guy with the big sword trying ot hack my head off a bit more annoying than a couple suits trying to get me to give em a quarter for that watchtower tract they just handed me. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. anyone trying to push their religious beliefs onto others is annoying. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

as ive heard it over the years a couple things were factors in polygamy. first of course it was a restoration of some old testament law. loss of men to the mobs thats a real factor. and also the wagon trains west. lot of men died along the way too honorable to ask the women folk to get out and push the wagons through the mud. also more women were receptive to the spirit and more women joined the church. and youre right at the time it was legal. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. one thing you cannot change no matter how badly you might want to. they acted within the law back then. they acted within the law back then just as they act within the law now. i have only one wife but if i wanted a dozen i dont see how it would be any of your business. yet another example of the self-righteous imposing their beliefs upon others. perhaps if many of the other self-imposed were right youre wrong religions hadnt slaughtered the mormon males in cold blood for no other reason beyond religious difference there would have been enough mormon males to go around so they wouldnt have needed to practice polygamy in the first place. ....not presenting my statements as fact just throwing it out there for thought. this as the most lds raised people are leaving the church as ever before. tell me how this is any different than catholic raised people....or any other organized religion. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

im not sure that either of the three points are true. i dont see any of these happening where i am. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. the modern mormon church is running from their polygamist past as fast as they possibly can. the modern mormon church is all about integration and presentation of a normal facade of their church and congregants to mainstream america. this as the most lds raised people are leaving the church as ever before. .

From : nathan in montana

the relatively modern change in overt stance on polygamy by the lds church had / has very little to do with obeying the law and much more to do with the church responding to their public image. they wanted to integrate. can you substantiate that surely you have proof of your statement we have a mormon temple here in billings. i know many mormons none of whom are anything less than the finest people you could ever hope to meet. the problem we have here is deep-rooted ignorance that stems from generations of anti-mormonism. i will criticize them to no end about the baker party massacre as that is factual and wrong. i will not however criticize them for things they just do not do. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

heatwave m3lt1ng@yah00.com wrote says... on sun 11 feb 2007 154317 -0500 roy roy@home.net wrote it is okay idiot you have no credibility here at this group. you are a riot! we laugh with roy but we laugh at you snoball. the sooner this sinks into that thick head of yours the better. at times i can be quite funny thank you. you can keep you head in the sand if you want as the and you may keep yours where it has been for some time. totally stuck in your ass. choice is yours. yours has been stuck there so long it is doubtful you know how to remove it. man i seriously do not know why this guy keeps posting... to say he was dense would be an understatement. i think along with posting corrections to his dribble we should include links to his other masterpieces. this may keep him from anymore vain attempts at distorting the facts as i think he forgets everything he says gets archived. sno on brakes http//tinyurl.com/2ya3wo one of the best examples of when someone is stupid to the sub-atomic level and as such doesnt and never will understand how stupid they are. .

From : nathan in montana

the bom is book used to substitute the beliefs that they choose not to follow from the bible. ive never read anything in the book of mormon that overrides anything in the bible. many passages expand upon the bible but thats no different than individual translations of the bible. like taking only one wife for example please quote that specific verse. or the three levels of heaven nothing in the bible overrides this. hell very well could be a lower level of heaven its just in how you label it. and how much wealth you aquire while on earth decides which level of heaven you get to ascend to please quote this specific verse. you admittingly havent even read the book how do you know what it says the opinions are documented fact of wrongdoing from within the mormon church. including marrying men to multiple wives sometimes in their early teens within the church. which in the 1800s when that was practiced was both legally and socially acceptable. next i have seen with my own eyes and talked to a mormon family consisting of one man and eight wives and scores of little snot-nosed kids. their house looks like a hotel. respected members of their church. now you can call that opinion if you want but why wear blinders they werent lds mormons or they were living in violation of the policies of the church. the lds church does not condone this practice and infact has made it against the laws of the church. my time is spent reading books that actually serve humanity not take the life and values from them. have you any clue how ignorant it is to argue the merits of a book that you havent even read read it why what could i possibly gain from it a first hand position from which to argue your points. you would be taken far more seriously if you actually read the very book you criticize. polygamy. the church knowingly marrying off young girls to old men who already have multiple wives. bull. thats clearly against church policy. http//www.mormon.org/question/faq/category/answer/097771601-1-114-100.html this church has nothing whatever to do with those practicing polygamy. they are not members of this church. . . . if any of our members are found to be practicing plural marriage they are excommunicated the most serious penalty the church can impose. not only are those so involved in direct violation of the civil law they are in violation of the law of this church. bullshit. i might believe that had i not seen it with my own eyes. polygamy is part of their past present and future. youre referencing another church entirely. so you like the idea of have multiple wives under the age of 16 rotating them in and out of your bedroom by week popping out malnurished children with them what is it that you respect again sigh.....its easier to resort to personal insults but that wont cut it. the policy of the mormon church is clearly not what you suggest. you need to read the book. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : yabahoobs

on sun 11 feb 2007 175230 -0500 chris thompson kf4drr-nospam@alltel.net wrote now with these two pieces of information i have some honest info to suggest on....all kidding aside if your local truck stops scale cant determine a diff of 1700 lbs in your rig the truck and the trailer minus the trucks weight is the weight of the trailer then there is something seriously wrong with the accuracy of their scale. i would try to find another scale whether its at another truck stop scrap yard shipping center land fill oh yea no ones thought of this one have they or where ever. if a truck scale cant tell the diff in nearly 2000 lbs then i question the scale and/or the operator of their accuracy. i also wondered about it but. life is what it is and truck scales are not what will give me an accurate answer. now also if i may ask. are you wanting to know the weight of the trailer for your own curiosity or because of loading considerations what kind of trailer did you build to satisfy my own curiosity at this point i hope that is of some actual help. i have a big page with a lot of pictures about how i built this trailer http//igor.chudov.com/projects/homemade-trailer-with-m105a2-bed/ it uses a bed from a military trailer m105a2. it is a super sturdy and strong but relatively small trailer. i want to know its weight due to loading considerations. i .

From : miles

azwiley1 wrote miles he is not wrong. they are getting the lake effect snows from lake ontario which does not freeze over like lake erie does. fyi erie has just recently froze over in late jan which is extremely odd for being so late a freeze. i realize that but the severe winter conditions are not isolated to just that one area. my response was to the claims regarding global warming causing the severe winters. as you pointed out ontario doesnt freeze over anyways. the lack of ice coverage isnt because of global warming as tbone tried to claim. talk to people in plain states and rocky mountain states! many areas have been hit hard with both heavy snows and frigid temps. you are correct about the heavy snow and frigid temps in the plains states and other areas. however being someone that lived most of his life in an area constantly hit by lake effect snows including the blizzard of 77 all the snow that is hitting the lake oswego area of western/upstate ny is all due to lake effect storms. just because it is not localized to areas directly on the lake does not mean it is not lake effect. besides as the topic reads the thread is about ny not the plains. so their weather really has little bearing or relevance. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote i dont think youre against the mormon church. i do however think that you are repeating what youve heard and not things you know of first hand. im not in some polygamist house in utah so i couldnt have known about them first hand. my complaints extend to most organized religions. on the issue of polygamy however i feel you have very little room to criticize them. they have cleaned up their mess and made that one right. i disagree. they themselves do nothing to stop the problem. excommunication after arrest accomplishes nothing. theyre already in jail. your claim seems to be that they can do nothing. just like the catholic church can do nothing internally to lessen the sexual abuses in that church. .

From : craig c

nathan in montana wrote thats ridiculous. what should they do miles hire private detectives to investigate each of their members again specifically what should they do please nathan it is you who is being ridiculous. this same mentality exists with the catholic church for which they have come under increased pressure to change their policies. you seem to be under the assumption there is absolutely nothing the churches can do to stop the sexual predator practices found within. just let the police take care of it one case at a time huh when the problems become widespread its an indication that something is terribly wrong with the structure policies or the culture of the church. the problem is inside not outside. the catholics came underfire from the public because they did not excommunicate all offenders on the 1st offense. instead they moved them out of the publics attention. they still do so today. .....they have. their rules and policy is clear as is their willingness to enforce them through excommunication. they have no such willingness. they only do so after an arrest conviction and public outcry. rarely before. show me an example otherwise. .

From : nathan in montana

on feb 11 1258 pm don grant dongr...@shaw.ca wrote i have a 99 dakota 3.9 lt. 4x4 reg cab. was wondering if anyone knows of a stainless cat back system for my truck. seems like there is a system for every year but 99. p.s. im in canada eh. for the 99 1500 i recently bought i went to a local muffler shop. hell install a cat back twice-pipe system for about $325.00 +/- $25.00 depending upon which mufflers i choose. i liked that price and arrangement better than anything id found elsewhere. here are some systems if youre interested in a diy. http//www.autotrucktoys.com/dodgedakota/magnaflow-dodge-dakota-cat-back-dual-exhaust-97-99-p10153c1930.aspx http//www.autotrucktoys.com/dodgedakota/magnaflow-dodge-dakota-cat-back-exhaust-97-99-p10150c1930.aspx youll find a couple more at the bottom of this page http//www.magnaflow.com/02product/shopdisplayproducts.aspsid=4dodge&zone=trucks&id=114&cat=dakota wolfie .

From : nathan in montana

guys could we please get off this subject and back on track with dodge trucks please two things that will always cause problems is the discussion of politics and religion. thanks! gary - kb9vgd very true! and 73 de kf4drr -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs. .

From : nathan in montana

roy wrote i made a trailer and want to get it weighed. went to a truck stop but my trailer was too light for their scales. any other suggestions two bathroom scales. even my small hybrid trailer weighs about 5000lbs loaded. i do not know very many bathroom scales rated to 1666lbs each. they are at dennys house.vbg .

From : nathan in montana

please provide specific examples to support your statement. i need not cite anything translation -- i cannot substantiate my blind blanket statements ........im not surprised. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

ignoramus18738 wrote i do not know if the bathroom scale comment was meant to be humorous but my trailer weighs according to my projections and estimates 1500-1700 lbs. i not at all. when i weigh my cobra to set corner and cross weights i use 4 bathroom scales and 4 fulcrums. not as easy as fancy racing scales but they sure are a whole lot cheaper. i was thinking it was a small lightweight trailer since a truck scale couldnt do it. but 1500# is a lot of weight for an empty trailer. if you just want to know how much the trailer weighs i would weigh truck and trailer together then remove the trailer and weigh the truck alone. if you want to know how the trailer is balanced where the center is etc youll need individual scales. -- ..bob 2006 fxdi hot rod 2001 dodge dakota qc 5.9/4x4/3.92 1966 mustang coupe - daily driver 1965 ffr cobra - 427w efi damn fast. .

From : nathan in montana

snojobman admin@snojobman.com wrote on sun 11 feb 2007 140717 -0600 mike simmons mikesim@yhti.net wrote weigh the truck and trailer as a combo and then weigh the truck only. subtract one from the other and voila! this will work but if you want to measure axle load on trailer he did not indicate that he did. you need to weigh trailer axle only with it hitched up or with tongue on a stand off of scale with axle still on it. i do this a lot you also type a lot with constant spelling errors gramatical errors spout off a lot of b.s. and hardly ever if ever answer a question that is posted. questions such as where is the knock sensor on the dodge v-1 or like my question i posted in the chevy group about replacing my cats. instead of answering it or ignoring it you attempted to educate me on them. .

From : miles

miles nope@nopers.com wrote in hk wrote lake ontario - it *is* lake effect. geesh! the heavy snows are not limited to the downwind lake vicinity. try again. u r a dunce! .

From : miles

tbone wrote probably none as global warming prevented the lakes from freezing over and that is what is causing so much damn snow now. bull. the areas getting all the snow arent all from lake effect which is a rather localized event. which lakes exactly are you referring too here miles he is not wrong. they are getting the lake effect snows from lake ontario which does not freeze over like lake erie does. fyi erie has just recently froze over in late jan which is extremely odd for being so late a freeze. .

From : miles

i made a trailer and want to get it weighed. went to a truck stop but my trailer was too light for their scales. any other suggestions two bathroom scales. i ya know when i answered this in jest i figured anybody would weigh the combined and then reweigh the truck. guess i was way wrong. .

From : craig c

nathan in montana wrote how are they supposed to clean up anything outside of their own church/control if you think im against the mormon church let me clarify something. my complaints extend to most organized religions. they all try to hide their internal problems and cover them up when possible. the catholics still continue to do so with regards to sex offenders despite the huge public outcry the past 10 years or so. .

From : nathan in montana

on feb 11 153 pm nathan in montana montanajee...@aol.com wrote then do as you suggest. think for yourself and base your opinions on those matters with which you have first hand experience. my experience with and research of organized religion is broad because of the way i was raised. my opinions are based on fact not the notion that any man is inspired or capable of the kind of inspiration that causes destructive behavior. man is man. nothing more. i am just as qualified to write a damn book as joseph smith is. hell im more qualifed. at least i dont let my dick do all of my thinking. 2 my exposure to mormon teachings comes from my father. a jehovahs witness circuit overseer. so you base your opinion of the mormon church on the opinion of a member of another church read what i wrote again pumpkin. i said he sent *articles* about mormons to me. his *opinion* of mormons never entered the statement. paper articles and books written by people that study the church and the behavior of its members particularly in the utah area. there is some seriously fucked up shit going on out there. thats like taking fords word for the quality of chevrolet. get first hand experience from which you can speak with authority. if youre going to criticize a simple book at least read the dang book. i don

From : chris thompson

nathan in montana wrote you cannot hold the mormon church responsible for what those outside the mormon church do. the mormon church does not allow polygamy. what people outside the mormon church claiming to be old-school mormons do is not the responsibility of the mormon church. you missed the point. every few years there are arrests in utah and elsewhere of active mormon church members for polygamy and sexual child abuse. the mormon church needs to be more pro-active in fighting against these people as well as outside sects in order to protect and promote their own. as for these other sects not using the same name that would be wrong. they simply add the word fundementalist to the name flds vs. lds .

From : fat ass fred

on sat 10 feb 2007 182134 -0700 nathan in montana montanajeeper@aol.com wrote few things irritate me as bad as self righteous holier-than-thou hypocritical my way is right your way is wrong christians. i dont have a problem at all with christianity in itself please dont misunderstand. its the warped interpretation of christianity that most christians have that i have a problem with. radical christians are no better than radical muslims or any other religion that claims to be right while everyone else is wrong for that matter as far as im concerned. i agree you and the stormin mormon are so self-righteous you cant even read your own writing. he admitted that his religion didnt believe in following the bible 100% yet to consider that any other religion on the face of the earth might be following gods word closer than the mormon religion is like hitting you in the face with five large bass. i gotta admit at first i thought you both where a bit on the stupid side now im beginning to find you quite amusing. .

From : nathan in montana

on sun 11 feb 2007 111137 -0700 .bob noneofyourbusiness@goaway.net wrote roy wrote i made a trailer and want to get it weighed. went to a truck stop but my trailer was too light for their scales. any other suggestions two bathroom scales. i actually you would need three each wheel and the tongue. when i weigh my car i use a scale under each wheel and add them all up for a total weight. you might also try a moving company. they often have large scales for weighing vehicles. although they might be using the same scales as the truck stop. drive on with truck and trailer and check weight. remove trailer weigh truck alone. i do not know if the bathroom scale comment was meant to be humorous but my trailer weighs according to my projections and estimates 1500-1700 lbs. i .

From : craig c

1 im not a christian. i prefer to think for myself thank you very much. then do as you suggest. think for yourself and base your opinions on those matters with which you have first hand experience. 2 my exposure to mormon teachings comes from my father. a jehovahs witness circuit overseer. so you base your opinion of the mormon church on the opinion of a member of another church thats like taking fords word for the quality of chevrolet. get first hand experience from which you can speak with authority. if youre going to criticize a simple book at least read the dang book. 3 no i have not read the book of mormon. i have never touched a burner on the stove either. not at all comparable. you cannot possibly debate the merits of any book without first reading the dang book. but if i were to start going to church i would prefer the mormon teachings over any others. hrm ... how about standing on your own mental abilities this is exactly what i do. i stated if i were to start going to church. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

on feb 10 645 pm nathan in montana montanajee...@aol.com wrote ive never read anyting in mormon doctrine that suggests the book of mormon superceeds the bible or renders it void in any way. its just an additional source of information and guidance. have you ever actually read it for yourself or do you simply criticize blindly like the majority of christians 1 im not a christian. i prefer to think for myself thank you very much. 2 my exposure to mormon teachings comes from my father. a jehovahs witness circuit overseer. his first assignment was salt lake city. he sent paper artlicles to me a few years ago proving that polygamy is very common and the doctine is backed in the book of mormon. therefore the bom is superceeding the bible. 3 no i have not read the book of mormon. i have never touched a burner on the stove either. for the record i find to much hypocrisy within christianity to buy into any of it..... totally agree. but if i were to start going to church i would prefer the mormon teachings over any others. hrm ... how about standing on your own mental abilities rather than handing that duty over to shady old men craig c. .

From : Annonymous

i made a trailer and want to get it weighed. went to a truck stop but my trailer was too light for their scales. any other suggestions i .

From : miles

if hes got a small utility trailer 3 300lb bathroom scales could do the job. we dont know what size trailer hes trying to weigh. but since its so light that it wont show on a truck scale i would guess that its a small utility trailer or 4 wheeler trailer something of that sort. -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs. roy wrote i made a trailer and want to get it weighed. went to a truck stop but my trailer was too light for their scales. any other suggestions two bathroom scales. even my small hybrid trailer weighs about 5000lbs loaded. i do not know very many bathroom scales rated to 1666lbs each. .

From : nathan in montana

they acted within the law back then just as they act within the law now. most do some do not. there continues to be sects in utah busted by the law every year. you cannot hold the mormon church responsible for what those outside the mormon church do. the mormon church does not allow polygamy. what people outside the mormon church claiming to be old-school mormons do is not the responsibility of the mormon church. if you look at those who are practicing polygamy they name on the sign outside their church does not say church of jesus christ of latter day saints which is the actual mormon church. if mormons kept it at just having multiple wives the law wouldnt be so hard on them lately. the problem is these wives are often just kids essentially forced into marriage. these arent real mormons. these are churches formed by excommunicated mormons practicing their beliefs under the generic mormon banner. you cannot accurately reference them as mormons. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote they acted within the law back then just as they act within the law now. most do some do not. there continues to be sects in utah busted by the law every year. have only one wife but if i wanted a dozen i dont see how it would be any of your business. yet another example of the self-righteous imposing their beliefs upon others. if mormons kept it at just having multiple wives the law wouldnt be so hard on them lately. the problem is these wives are often just kids essentially forced into marriage. this isnt just in outcast sects such as colorado city az. its been happening in utah as well. that causes the law to dig even deeper into the mainstream church as well because the problem is widespread. if the churches throughout the world took an active role in cleaning up and protecting their own religion then these self-rightous imposers wouldnt have as loud of a case against them. .

From : nathan in montana

on sat 10 feb 2007 182134 -0700 nathan in montana montanajeeper@aol.com wrote few things irritate me as bad as self righteous holier-than-thou hypocritical my way is right your way is wrong christians. i dont have a problem at all with christianity in itself please dont misunderstand. its the warped interpretation of christianity that most christians have that i have a problem with. radical christians are no better than radical muslims or any other religion that claims to be right while everyone else is wrong for that matter as far as im concerned. i agree you and the stormin mormon are so self-righteous you cant even read your own writing. self-righteous i dont even buy into the heaven/hell thing anymore than i believe in santa clause the tooth-fairy or any other fairy tales. a magical powerful oz who knows when im naughty and knows when im nice please. if there is a hell i expect to burn for eternity. dont even try to tell me there is anything self righteous about me. he admitted that his religion he is no more able to speak on behalf of his entire religion than you are. at first i thought you both where a bit on the stupid side now im beginning to find you quite amusing. translation -- i cannot substantiate my ridiculous statments. i will attempt to distract you away from that with personal insults -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

gee - then you should have been following these religious threads a month ago or so. i dont typically follow religous threads. this one caught my attention because it involved the mormon church which i find intriguing because it threatens so many other self-righteous christians for some reason that i cannot explain or understand. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : fat ass fred

howdy. im contemplating purchasing a used truck with the 4.7l v8. how long to these engines typically last just an average ballpark - i realize it has way more to do with maintenence. for example i wouldnt hesitate to buy a 5.2/5.9l with 100000 miles on the clock that had been well maintained. i did look up the price of the rebuilt long block and the cost is staggering. thanks! -rev .

From : fat ass fred

on sat 10 feb 2007 231532 -0500 napalmheart olsonfam@iserv.net wrote he said that he replaced it. but he also said it opened just before the water boiled and it was supposed to be a 195 degree thermostat.... try to replace thermostat. old ones can wear out. it cost no more than 10 bucks for it. then ur all set. my opinion larry ramby wrote this truck surges a few hundred rpms during warm up. it also takes a very long time for the truck to warm up. engine temp. will hard start to climb after 15 minutes of running. engine is 3.9l fuel injected and our mornings around here have been about 0 degrees f. changed out the thermostat and even checked the old one in a pan of boiling water. thermostat opened just before water boiled and is marked 195 degrees same as the one i replaced it with. .

From : fat ass fred

on sun 11 feb 2007 012158 gmt theguy@whatever.net wrote lol i was just gonna stay out of it but i was thinking the same thing. i agree with nate all the way but fat ass fred didnt start this deal about mormon lies.............in fact im not sure that fat ass fred isnt just an aka for the fool that did. no i can assure you i didnt start it. i use the alias because you post one single message with your primary address and your spammed for life.... might be why when i switch to synchronet my sysop account gets spammed heavily.... any way depending on the software im running at the time i once kept a fatass@mlc-group.net open. i dont think i have any aliases in winserver right now though. i was told somewhere that if you use a fake e-mail address you have to use it for a domain you either have permission to use or that you own.... .

From : fat ass fred

on 10 feb 2007 213545 -0800 yabahoobs chendrikson@gmail.com wrote mormons in general are very nice people. you cant deny their annoying-ness though...if you dont believe me move to utah. i just to get a kick out of these mormons that was attending church with my friend one time.... there was like 6 of them all of them must have been about 62 and they all piled into this one teeny-tiny car that was not much bigger than my ford festiva at the time.... when they got out of the car it was like watching a bunch of rabbits jump out of a hat.... ya just had to wonder where they came from and how they all fit in there.... .

From : yabahoobs

fmb fmbb@sbcglobal.net wrote in this is enough to keep the neighborhood pushers in business for awhile... http//www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgifile=/n/a/2007/02/10/national /a163410s84.dtl fmb north mexico damn thats a lot even by lake effect standards. .

From : roy

roy wrote i made a trailer and want to get it weighed. went to a truck stop but my trailer was too light for their scales. any other suggestions two bathroom scales. i actually you would need three each wheel and the tongue. when i weigh my car i use a scale under each wheel and add them all up for a total weight. you might also try a moving company. they often have large scales for weighing vehicles. although they might be using the same scales as the truck stop. drive on with truck and trailer and check weight. remove trailer weigh truck alone. -- ..bob 2006 fxdi hot rod 2001 dodge dakota qc 5.9/4x4/3.92 1966 mustang coupe - daily driver 1965 ffr cobra - 427w efi damn fast. .

From : gary oaks

guys could we please get off this subject and back on track with dodge trucks please two things that will always cause problems is the discussion of politics and religion. gary as much of a pia it is to some others seem to enjoy the subject. as this is a un-moderated group folks here can and often do discuss anything that comes to mind. there a bunch of pretty sharp people here regards dodge trucks. do you have a question oh one other thing that will cause problems with these folks are those who attempt to moderate the group. roy your welcome!!! thanks! gary - kb9vgd on sun 11 feb 2007 092717 -0600 fat ass fred fatass@mlc-group.net wrote on sun 11 feb 2007 012158 gmt theguy@whatever.net wrote lol i was just gonna stay out of it but i was thinking the same thing. i agree with nate all the way but fat ass fred didnt start this deal about mormon lies.............in fact im not sure that fat ass fred isnt just an aka for the fool that did. no i can assure you i didnt start it. i use the alias because you post one single message with your primary address and your spammed for life.... might be why when i switch to synchronet my sysop account gets spammed heavily.... any way depending on the software im running at the time i once kept a fatass@mlc-group.net open. i dont think i have any aliases in winserver right now though. i was told somewhere that if you use a fake e-mail address you have to use it for a domain you either have permission to use or that you own.... well you are wide open for a bunch of akas fat ass. bigot number two would be a good one. moron number two would be another. .

From : miles

guys could we please get off this subject and back on track with dodge trucks please two things that will always cause problems is the discussion of politics and religion. thanks! gary - kb9vgd on sun 11 feb 2007 092717 -0600 fat ass fred fatass@mlc-group.net wrote on sun 11 feb 2007 012158 gmt theguy@whatever.net wrote lol i was just gonna stay out of it but i was thinking the same thing. i agree with nate all the way but fat ass fred didnt start this deal about mormon lies.............in fact im not sure that fat ass fred isnt just an aka for the fool that did. no i can assure you i didnt start it. i use the alias because you post one single message with your primary address and your spammed for life.... might be why when i switch to synchronet my sysop account gets spammed heavily.... any way depending on the software im running at the time i once kept a fatass@mlc-group.net open. i dont think i have any aliases in winserver right now though. i was told somewhere that if you use a fake e-mail address you have to use it for a domain you either have permission to use or that you own.... well you are wide open for a bunch of akas fat ass. bigot number two would be a good one. moron number two would be another. .

From : stormin mormon

i dare you! give me your best! -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. thats just your left wing bias talking. sorry miles but you have shown your hard right bias far more than i have to the left. lol. can you get more ridiculous sadly....yes .

From : fat ass fred

on wed 14 feb 2007 112823 -0700 nathan in montana montanajeeper@aol.com wrote a man who has married multiple wives before the church changed their policy and wishes to remain in the church presently what does the church tell him is it o.k. since he went against their commandments before they became a commandment or does he have to divorce/anull the other marriages or is he simply excommunicated from the church and told he should learn to love hell since the mormon church abolished polygamy 117 years ago i dont think theres to much danger of that happening. guess youve never seen someone live to be 120-130 years of age.... .

From : fat ass fred

on tue 13 feb 2007 062503 gmt davidlx none@000.com wrote i have a 1999 dodge ram pickup 1500. the low beams work fine. the high beams will work if i hold the switch up toward the steering wheel. if i release the switch handle i have no lights at all. if i click the handle again the low beams come back on. do i need to replace the switch thanks. thats what happened in one of my vehichles.... replacing the dimmer/lightswitch lever did the trick.... .

From : chris thompson

on fri 16 feb 2007 003411 gmt djobelius u31794@uwe wrote i have a 2002 dodge ram 1500 4x4 and i am getting rear end noise. you will start to hear it at 30 mph and gets real noticable @ 50 but at 70 it is less noticable. it does not seem to change in pitch with speed. it is like a hum.... when putting under load is when you will hear it. at coasting it all but goes away. there is 87000 mi on it. any ideas i was told that it may be a pinion bearing... could it be that just there is to much lash are you positive that it isnt a u-joint beekeep .

From : stormin mormon

how are you going to punish nathan for clubbing baby seals -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote no but it supports my other links. together they make for a pretty convincing argument. only for pure entertainment value. i dont think most rely on discovery channel for their knowledge to support a convincing argument. .

From : stormin mormon

nathan and miles will accomplish that. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. update on the debate mormon lies thread - 379 messages - 25 authors k&n debate apr 23 2004 by *cbhvac* - 323 messages - 34 authors just say no to k&n! may 5 2001 by ***** - 646 messages - 32 authors k&n aug 4 2001 by cbhvac - 345 messages - 25 authors as you can see yall are meeting the average but as ya see your only half way there...keep it up if ya wanna beet the 646 mark *grin* -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs. .

From : stormin mormon

the lds church name was given in a revelation. its in the doctrine and covenants but i cant remember which section. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote the lds church was not founded on polygamy. thats only partly true. smiths church was not called the lds. it was called the church of christ. it wasnt until sydney rigdon came up with the idea for the church of the latter day saints dropping christ from it entirely. polygamy took its roots in this new church. .

From : stormin mormon

ive seen a lot of people and web sites accusing mormons of being not christian. who cares i know what we are. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote ive attended catholic services baptist services methodist services and quite a few more. ive seen many references to those evil mormons but ive never seen anyone other than you say they werent christians. would you stop spinning!! i never once said mormons are not christians. if you wish to discuss then please stop coming up with things to argue about that nobody hear is saying. .

From : stormin mormon

guess i ought to dig up the d and c section. anyhow the church name was given through revelation. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. yabahoobs wrote and in the process became a new church. whether you like it or not. so im afraid it is you that is wrong. they even changed their name! smiths church was the church of christ. at the urging of one of its main members the name was changed to the church of the latter day saints note christ removed from the name. still not the name as its known today as christ was added back to it. .

From : stormin mormon

a christian is a person who worships the resurrected saviour jesus christ as the only way to return to god the father though obedience to the commandments as revealed through the prophet joseph smith and later prophets of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote not if you look to the mormon doctrine. their very first article of faith establishes them as christians. anyone can declare themselves a christian. my point was that each religion has differing criteria for such. .

From : stormin mormon

however the lds church continues to be the one with the divine mantle. this i know because i hold and use the priesthood. i could do that in no other church. gave a priesthood blessing a day or two ago. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. they very much did form an entirely new church. the fundamentalists could be said to not have formed anything new. they kept up with the very same religious views as always. it is what you call the real lds who changed not the fundamentalists. a new religion was formed that is no longer based on the core revelations of smith. .

From : stormin mormon

hear hear! nate has given more evidence than miles by far. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. i also showed you an about.com link that says those who violate the policy are excommunicated. far more than ive gotten from you. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

so all the other churches are wrong. because its written thou shalt not murder. works for me! -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. the lds church was not founded on polygamy. polygamy came after the mormon males were slaughtered by all the other do-gooder christians. it was later abolished it is not the cornerstone of the church that the antis make it out to be. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

yabahoobs wrote and in the process became a new church. whether you like it or not. so im afraid it is you that is wrong. they even changed their name! smiths church was the church of christ. at the urging of one of its main members the name was changed to the church of the latter day saints note christ removed from the name. still not the name as its known today as christ was added back to it. .

From : stormin mormon

miles would like documented evidence that you have acted in a positive and definite manner to stop people form killing jews clubbing baby seals converting heathen tribes in africa colonizing australia exploring the moon and stealing land from american indians. and none of these links from stop the clubbing web site either. after all if lds folks can be blamed for polygamy because what apostate groups do surely you can be blamed for clubbing baby seals because what some eskimos do. its only fair. i think ill just jump ahead. miles says youre guilty. see how much work we saved -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon cayoung61-&spamblock*-@hotmail.com wrote in message so nate how many slaves do you have have you stopped killing jews clubbing baby seals converting heathen tribes in africa colonizing australia exploring the moon and stealing land from american indians im a bad bad man! ....er wait the 2nd article of faith would hold me responsible only for my wrong-doings so i guess im in the clear. - -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

to them they are. my point to which you argued still stands. i stated that to other christian based faiths in the world the mormons are not christians. again im not bashing anyone nor taking sides. just stating a fact. ive attended catholic services baptist services methodist services and quite a few more. ive seen many references to those evil mormons but ive never seen anyone other than you say they werent christians. holy smokes they are the church of jesus christ of latter day saints. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote now miles be fair. if they didnt know about it what could they do about it once they became aware of it however denounced it. i bet they excommunicated them too. re-read what i said. the family was known in the public view. the had run stories on them. the church did nothing. it wasnt until the underage women were found out that both the law and the church did something. unless theyre wearing shirts that say my other wife is a hottie being in public does not make it known that they are practicing polygamists. appearances dont tell the story miles. if you met me in public view you would never know that im carrying a concealed weapon. i see hooterites sorta like ahmish folks who embrace modern conveniences like electricity and walmart all over montana very popular. i have no idea what their marital situations are nor do i care. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

a name or a trademark does not make a religion nor a church. it establishes it as the mormon church. the original church that was founded despite policy change. that church was entirely formed around the revelations of one man. the very foundation the heart the core and the essence of the religion is gone! wrong. the 13 articles of faith the completely define the mormon chruch are the same as when they were originall written. it was not just a small simple change in policy. its an entirely new religion with little basis to smiths views. you are mistaken. the chruch was not founded upon polygamy. the church was founded upon the articles of faith that remain consistant to this very day. polygamy was one aspect of church policy born of necessity and abolished when it became illegal. i think its the 12th article of faith that states to respect leaders and law. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : fat ass fred

on wed 14 feb 2007 112637 -0700 nathan in montana montanajeeper@aol.com wrote are you implying the mormon church doesnt know if its members has more than one wife absolutely. you cannot expect them to investigate the home of every member. when they find an incident of polygamy they kick them out of the church. what more do you want if your pastor or whatever doesnt know his people he has no right calling his self a pastor. its his duty as a pastor to visit his peoples houses when they are sick and pray for them or does the mormon church believe in laughing at the sick rather than healing them i suppose the pastor never leaves the church to purchase groceries for his own home buy gas for his vehichle travel to and from the church put out tracts at low income housing districts etc. after all if he did any of the above hed know his people. jesus knew his people why wouldnt your leader who is expected to use jesus as a role modal follow his lead .

From : stormin mormon

ive heard the not christian argument. many many times. i dont give it much attention any more. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. ive attended catholic services baptist services methodist services and quite a few more. ive seen many references to those evil mormons but ive never seen anyone other than you say they werent christians. holy smokes they are the church of jesus christ of latter day saints. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

dont hold your breath and stand on one foot. you could freeze in that position while you were waiting. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. the church ignores the issue id like to see one single example of the church overlooking polygamy. just one. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

the mormon pastors or whatever who i have met have been very involved in their families lives. and we do home visits though members visit each other and report back. there is only so much one man can do and my congregation for example has 420 members. about half attend church. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. if your pastor or whatever doesnt know his people he has no right calling his self a pastor. its his duty as a pastor to visit his peoples houses when they are sick and pray for them or does the mormon church believe in laughing at the sick rather than healing them i suppose the pastor never leaves the church to purchase groceries for his own home buy gas for his vehichle travel to and from the church put out tracts at low income housing districts etc. after all if he did any of the above hed know his people. jesus knew his people why wouldnt your leader who is expected to use jesus as a role modal follow his lead .

From : stormin mormon

ok youre the one calling nathan for proof. lets see if you can live your own law. im calling for proof. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote wrong. the 13 articles of faith the completely define the mormon chruch are the same as when they were originall written. wrong. smith formed the church of christ and later the the church of the latter day saints missing the name of christ. per smith the idea of polygamy was far more than just one small aspect. he himself said polygamy is the only way to heaven. it was an essential core element of his church. it was the mormon law. .

From : Annonymous

on thu 15 feb 2007 215639 -0700 nathan in montana montanajeeper@aol.com wrote nathan in montana wrote now miles be fair. if they didnt know about it what could they do about it once they became aware of it however denounced it. i bet they excommunicated them too. re-read what i said. the family was known in the public view. the had run stories on them. the church did nothing. it wasnt until the underage women were found out that both the law and the church did something. unless theyre wearing shirts that say my other wife is a hottie now that was funny. being in public does not make it known that they are practicing polygamists. appearances dont tell the story miles. if you met me in public view you would never know that im carrying a concealed weapon. i see hooterites sorta like ahmish folks who embrace modern conveniences like electricity and walmart all over montana very popular. i have no idea what their marital situations are nor do i care. .

From : Annonymous

on fri 16 feb 2007 041907 -0500 chris thompson kf4drr-nospam@alltel.net wrote update on the debate mormon lies thread - 379 messages - 25 authors k&n debate apr 23 2004 by *cbhvac* - 323 messages - 34 authors just say no to k&n! may 5 2001 by ***** - 646 messages - 32 authors k&n aug 4 2001 by cbhvac - 345 messages - 25 authors as you can see yall are meeting the average but as ya see your only half way there...keep it up if ya wanna beet the 646 mark *grin* wow so much for facts. i was just sure that this one had taken the lead........im surprised it is only half way there. but a great hit and run on this one by budd. .

From : nathan in montana

i didnt call anyone christian or not christian. mormons views are different and some others would say theyre not christians. that is fact. and they are dead wrong. quit spinning!! stop being an ass im not spinning anything. i simply misunderstood your intent. sheesh. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote im not saying it does. im saying if you do find any it is a rare exception and in violation of the church laws. it is against the state laws as well. as ive said the church ignores the issue the same way the law does for one simple reason. it is not in the public interest to go after polygamists. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote im betting its considered to be more valid than because some guy on the internet says so. youve shown nothing to substantiate your claims that they dont enforce their policy. youve shown no evidence that they have enforced it. you are just some guy on the internet that says discovery channel said they have a policy. i also showed you an about.com link that says those who violate the policy are excommunicated. far more than ive gotten from you. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

on feb 15 835 pm miles n...@nopers.com wrote wolfie wrote the film is cut to fit the entire glass. im not sure i understand your concern. i have tinting on all the other windows. they are not as easy to see out of as the front untinted windshield. i think i prefer it that way! i can understand and appreciate that. i think you should do whatever you want and use whatever product suits your needs. i just have a hard time understanding how it applies to what i do with *my* windows. .

From : nathan in montana

the church ignores the issue id like to see one single example of the church overlooking polygamy. just one. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

wrong. the mormon church simply changed their policy. and in the process became a new church. whether you like it or not. so im afraid it is you that is wrong. .

From : yabahoobs

that is good within those states but not good if you travel in states that would otherwise have reciprocity with their ccw. iow your permit - or lack of one - is worthless anywhere else. of course - i thought we were talking about which state made it easiest to ccw in. .

From : stormin mormon

yep thats a good web page for saying mormons are not christians. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. wheres budd when you need him see http//www.carm.org/lds/seekers.htm -- ken .

From : nosey

nathan in montana wrote to them they are. my point to which you argued still stands. i stated that to other christian based faiths in the world the mormons are not christians. again im not bashing anyone nor taking sides. just stating a fact. ive attended catholic services baptist services methodist services and quite a few more. ive seen many references to those evil mormons but ive never seen anyone other than you say they werent christians. holy smokes they are the church of jesus christ of latter day saints. wheres budd when you need him see http//www.carm.org/lds/seekers.htm -- ken .

From : roy

screw the count!! i want miles to get back to me on the nav disc!! vbg roy update on the debate mormon lies thread - 379 messages - 25 authors k&n debate apr 23 2004 by *cbhvac* - 323 messages - 34 authors just say no to k&n! may 5 2001 by ***** - 646 messages - 32 authors k&n aug 4 2001 by cbhvac - 345 messages - 25 authors as you can see yall are meeting the average but as ya see your only half way there...keep it up if ya wanna beet the 646 mark *grin* -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote the lds church was not founded on polygamy. thats only partly true. smiths church was not called the lds. it was called the church of christ. it wasnt until sydney rigdon came up with the idea for the church of the latter day saints dropping christ from it entirely. polygamy took its roots in this new church. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote ive attended catholic services baptist services methodist services and quite a few more. ive seen many references to those evil mormons but ive never seen anyone other than you say they werent christians. would you stop spinning!! i never once said mormons are not christians. if you wish to discuss then please stop coming up with things to argue about that nobody hear is saying. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote unless theyre wearing shirts that say my other wife is a hottie being in public does not make it known that they are practicing polygamists. you just do not read do you!!! what part of the families story about being polygamists shown all across local tv and in the papers do you not understand the mormon church here in mesa az ignored them. they were known. it was because they were polygamists that caused them to appear on tv and in the papers. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote wrong. the 13 articles of faith the completely define the mormon chruch are the same as when they were originall written. wrong. smith formed the church of christ and later the the church of the latter day saints missing the name of christ. per smith the idea of polygamy was far more than just one small aspect. he himself said polygamy is the only way to heaven. it was an essential core element of his church. it was the mormon law. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote id like to see one single example of the church overlooking polygamy. just one. i gave you one. you just keep spinning it and ignoring the truth. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote thats just wrong. the articles of faith that were in place before polygamy are intact to this very day. they are the same chruch. changing one single policy does not make them an entirely new church. one major policy!! one that smith said was essential. besides they also changed their name twice. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote on the one hand you tell me that i cannot use the discovery channel documentary to prove my argument and then you cite your own comparable sources. make up your mind please. you asked for such an example and i gave it. now you dont like it. make up your mind please. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote he formed the lds and the articles of faith define it. they have not changed. he formed the church of christ. it was sydney rigdon who wanted it changed to lds without christ in the name. you knew that right .

From : bg

88ednxq17noreunynz2dnuvzwhednz2d@bresnan.com... mormans must have their own brand of jesus because not to many other christians agree with the lds version. its simple anti-mormon sentiment born of ignorance and passed down from generation to generation. its not different as anti-semitism only not as global. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com it isnt anti-mormon sentiment in this case. theres a fundamental difference having to do with jesus being god or jesus being the son of god or somethung like that. the mormans view jesus in a way that other christians do not. dont quote me on the technicality im not qualified . bg .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote wrong. the 13 articles of faith the completely define the mormon chruch are the same as when they were originall written. wrong. what is different about the articles of faith in how they exist today compared to when they were originally written. smith formed the church of christ and later the the church of the latter day saints missing the name of christ. he formed the lds and the articles of faith define it. they have not changed. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : idaspode

on thu 15 feb 2007 215639 -0700 nathan in montana montanajeeper@aol.com wrote nathan in montana wrote now miles be fair. if they didnt know about it what could they do about it once they became aware of it however denounced it. i bet they excommunicated them too. re-read what i said. the family was known in the public view. the had run stories on them. the church did nothing. it wasnt until the underage women were found out that both the law and the church did something. nathan will ignore or dismiss anything you i or anyone else has to say about this. he has his own ideas about the lds church and its handling of polygamist issues. like in some other religions he wants very badly to trust the church will always do the right thing. im fairly certain there were/are many catholics who could never conceive the notion preists were molesting children and may have an even harder time accepting the church knew about many of these instances and did nothing to curb the practice. as we all know by now it was is still rampant... unless theyre wearing shirts that say my other wife is a hottie being in public does not make it known that they are practicing polygamists. appearances dont tell the story miles. ya dont get out much do ya nathan g like i said it may not be quite as apparent in mt but spend any amount of time in slc and you may find its not that hard to spot *some* polygamist families by the way they dress and conduct themselves. if you met me in public view you would never know that im carrying a concealed weapon. well duh its concealed you could also be wearing a diaper and we wouldnt know it. pointless. now tell me we meet in public you have three women with you all dressed alike looking like they just stepped out of the 1800s 15 children again all dressed alike and you can conceal that your are polygamists ill be impressed... can you get a cwcp concealed wives carry permit in montana i see hooterites sorta like ahmish folks who embrace modern conveniences like electricity and walmart all over montana very popular. i have no idea what their marital situations are nor do i care. dj .

From : nathan in montana

wrong. the mormon church simply changed their policy. and in the process became a new church. whether you like it or not. so im afraid it is you that is wrong. thats just wrong. the articles of faith that were in place before polygamy are intact to this very day. they are the same chruch. changing one single policy does not make them an entirely new church. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote the lds church was not founded on polygamy. thats only partly true. smiths church was not called the lds. it was called the church of christ. it wasnt until sydney rigdon came up with the idea for the church of the latter day saints dropping christ from it entirely. polygamy took its roots in this new church. polygamy started only after all those good christian folk slaughtered the mormon males. the lds church was not founded in polygamy. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote ive attended catholic services baptist services methodist services and quite a few more. ive seen many references to those evil mormons but ive never seen anyone other than you say they werent christians. would you stop spinning!! i never once said mormons are not christians. mormons views on jesus often differ with many other christian based religions. not saying who is right or wrong but many would say mormons are not christians you did state the above quote to which i replied. that you dont happen to believe it is insignificant. it was your statement that called their christianity into question. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

you just do not read do you!!! what part of the families story about being polygamists shown all across local tv on the one hand you tell me that i cannot use the discovery channel documentary to prove my argument and then you cite your own comparable sources. make up your mind please. the mormon church here in mesa az ignored them. they were known. it was because they were polygamists that caused them to appear on tv and in the papers. please give me more to go on so that i can ask specific questions and i will make a few phone calls and see what i can find out. their names their church if what you say is true its a perfect opportunity to validate your statements. just give me a little more information. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

unless theyre wearing shirts that say my other wife is a hottie now that was funny. - -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote id like to see one single example of the church overlooking polygamy. just one. i gave you one. you just keep spinning it and ignoring the truth. so far youve given me nothing but unsubstantiated babble. ive requested specific details so that i can verify your tale. i even said please. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote a christian is a person who worships the resurrected saviour jesus christ as the only way to return to god the father though obedience to the commandments as revealed through the prophet joseph smith and later prophets of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints. some other christian groups say the mormons are not christians because they do not view who and what jesus was in the same way. for them there is only one right way. thats the trouble with organized religion. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote ok youre the one calling nathan for proof. lets see if you can live your own law. im calling for proof. not really. i only countered his own argument with same. there is no proof the mormon church does anything more than the law does with regards to polygamy. both ignore it. i already gave one example that took place here in az. nate only gave what about.com and discovery channel said which was they have a policy. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote mormons views on jesus often differ with many other christian based religions. not saying who is right or wrong but many would say mormons are not christians you did state the above quote to which i replied. that you dont happen to believe it is insignificant. it was your statement that called their christianity into question. read nathan!! geez!! i didnt call anyone christian or not christian. mormons views are different and some others would say theyre not christians. that is fact. whether they are or not isnt my concern and i gave no such opinion on the matter to whether they are or arent. quit spinning!! .

From : nathan in montana

nathan will ignore or dismiss anything you i or anyone else has to say about this only because you have yet to give me anything factual that you can substantiate. he wants very badly to trust the church will always do the right thing. i have no investment either way. i just want the conversation to remain factual. well duh its concealed you could also be wearing a diaper and we wouldnt know it. pointless. my point was that appearances can be deceiving. you cannot draw conclusions on outward appearances. now tell me we meet in public you have three women with you all dressed alike looking like they just stepped out of the 1800s 15 children again all dressed alike and you can conceal that your are polygamists ill be impressed... i see people like you describe all the time in montana. theyre called hooterites. doesnt make them polygamists. can you get a cwcp concealed wives carry permit in montana heh....good one. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

it isnt anti-mormon sentiment in this case. theres a fundamental difference having to do with jesus being god or jesus being the son of god or somethung like that. the mormans view jesus in a way that other christians do not. dont quote me on the technicality im not qualified . no there is no difference. article of faith #1 we believe in god the father his son jesus christ and in the holy spirit paraphrasing but close enough. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote miles would like documented evidence that you have acted in a positive and definite manner to stop people form killing jews clubbing baby seals converting heathen tribes in africa colonizing australia exploring the moon and stealing land from american indians. and none of these links from stop the clubbing web site either. after all if lds folks can be blamed for polygamy because what apostate groups do surely you can be blamed for clubbing baby seals because what some eskimos do. its only fair. i think ill just jump ahead. miles says youre guilty. see how much work we saved hmm...not sure when i ever blamed anyone for anything but ill go along with the assumption hes guilty of something! .

From : nathan in montana

you asked for such an example and i gave it. now you dont like it. make up your mind please. you didnt give me anything beyond your own opinion with no way for me to verify or disprove your statement. while i cited the discovery channel documentary i also gave you the link to the lds policy as well as a totally neutral link from a credible source about.com. ......and put some fiber in your diet. youre turning mean. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote ah an example without details..... thats not very helpful. some guy on the internet saying he saw something on a show on discovery is .

From : nathan in montana

stormin mormon wrote ok youre the one calling nathan for proof. lets see if you can live your own law. im calling for proof. not really. i only countered his own argument with same. there is no proof the mormon church does anything more than the law does with regards to polygamy. both ignore it. i already gave one example that took place here in az. nate only gave what about.com and discovery channel said which was they have a policy. read the about.com link again. it does not limit their statement in any way to they have a policy. in fact it clearly states that they excommunicate polygamists. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

one major policy!! have you anything to show that policy was more important than any other it was one policy change.....just like they changed their policy to allow blacks to enter the priesthood. the times change as does policy. one that smith said was essential. when it was adopted it was essential for the very survival of the church. why do-gooder religions slaugthered their male members out of nothing more than religious indifference. besides they also changed their name twice. irrelevant. the trademarks never changed ownership and the articles of faith that establish and define the church remain unchanged to this very day. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote only because you have yet to give me anything factual that you can substantiate. in your opinion. or should i just say i saw something on discovery channel and call it factual .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote i didnt call anyone christian or not christian. mormons views are different and some others would say theyre not christians. that is fact. and they are dead wrong. that could be. not my concern. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote thank you for clarifying your position now i understand your intent and i agree completely with your statement. i said very early on that all religions seem to bash each other claiming theyre the right one and the others are wrong. its a problem with all organized religions and not unique to mormons. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote read the about.com link again. it does not limit their statement in any way to they have a policy. in fact it clearly states that they excommunicate polygamists. again a policy means nothing. there is a written law against polygamy to. the law ignores the issue as well. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote have you anything to show that policy was more important than any other it wasnt just an idea that could or couldnt be followed. it was the only way according to smith. he commanded people to practice polygamy as the only way to heaven. not only were they permitted to have multiple wives they were required to do it to reach the highest heaven. joseph smith made the following revelation concerning the subject of specific topic of polygamy from the lord for behold i reveal unto you a new and everlasting covenant and if ye abide not that covenant then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my lords glory doctrine and covenants 1324. it was one policy change.....just like they changed their policy to allow blacks to enter the priesthood. the times change as does policy. one that smith said was essential. when it was adopted it was essential for the very survival of the church. why do-gooder religions slaugthered their male members out of nothing more than religious indifference. besides they also changed their name twice. irrelevant. the trademarks never changed ownership and the articles of faith that establish and define the church remain unchanged to this very day. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote when it was adopted it was essential for the very survival of the church. why do-gooder religions slaugthered their male members out of nothing more than religious indifference. that isnt the reason for polygamy at all. your timeline is way off on the matter. smith made this revelation long before any males were slaughtered for it is my will that in time ye should take unto you wives of the lamanites and nephites that their posterity may become white delightsome and just for even now their females are more virtuous than the gentiles. joseph smith hoped that if mormon elders married native-american women then the mormons could legally settle on native-american lands in kansas which was then off-limits to white settlers. as these events occurred long before there were any mormon men killed by persecution and smiths revelation dealt only with taking native-american women to wife the idea that polygamy was created because mormon widows needed husbands angle is without merit. .

From : stormin mormon

concealed wife permit now thats funny! -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. can you get a cwcp concealed wives carry permit in montana .

From : stormin mormon

lets see what my other wife says and ill get back to you. that would make a good t-shirt. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. unless theyre wearing shirts that say my other wife is a hottie now that was funny. - -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

one two three..... yep! -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote nathan and miles will accomplish that. count yourself too! .

From : fat ass fred

on fri 16 feb 2007 091129 -0500 stormin mormon cayoung61-&spamblock*-@hotmail.com wrote miles would like documented evidence that you have acted in a positive and definite manner to stop people form killing jews clubbing baby seals converting heathen tribes in africa colonizing australia exploring the moon and stealing land from american indians. and none of these links from stop the clubbing web site either. id like positive proof that stormin mormon has a brain. .

From : fat ass fred

on fri 16 feb 2007 093219 -0500 stormin mormon cayoung61-&spamblock*-@hotmail.com wrote the mormon pastors or whatever who i have met have been very involved in their families lives. and we do home visits though members visit each other and report back. there is only so much one man can do and my congregation for example has 420 members. about half attend church. ive went to two churches that each had over 600 members yet both pastors could tell you each of the members faults if they where following the churches beliefs sad to say one pastor chose to overlook the problems of his members while the other chose to tell them not to come back to the church if they couldnt follow the rules of the church. .

From : fat ass fred

on fri 16 feb 2007 075322 -0500 nosey kfrei43@removethis.hotmail.com wrote ive attended catholic services baptist services methodist services and quite a few more. ive seen many references to those evil mormons but ive never seen anyone other than you say they werent christians. holy smokes they are the church of jesus christ of latter day saints. wheres budd when you need him see http//www.carm.org/lds/seekers.htm wow theres folks that attend the church of elvis does that make them elvis and if this doesnt prove something your heads definitely filled with jello! theres a great many folks out there that claim to be computer consultants and make money as professional computer repair technicians however anyone working on a computer theyve fixed will know the more they blow their own horn the less they know what a computer is in the first place. same theory applies with religion. just because you self-proclaim your religion is jesus doesnt mean it has anything to do with jesus. as if you thought such a simple statement would persuade even a monkey. .

From : stormin mormon

lot of churches change one policy but that doesnt mean they are a totally new church. wasnt mcdonalds going to a low fat menu i guess that makes em a totally new restaurant. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. wrong. the mormon church simply changed their policy. and in the process became a new church. whether you like it or not. so im afraid it is you that is wrong. thats just wrong. the articles of faith that were in place before polygamy are intact to this very day. they are the same chruch. changing one single policy does not make them an entirely new church. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

thats part of it. the other part is that polygamy was practiced in old testament times. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. polygamy started only after all those good christian folk slaughtered the mormon males. the lds church was not founded in polygamy. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

the catholics and protestants have been arguing for a couple centuries so i cant get too worked up over someone calling mormons non-christian. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. mormons views on jesus often differ with many other christian based religions. not saying who is right or wrong but many would say mormons are not christians you did state the above quote to which i replied. that you dont happen to believe it is insignificant. it was your statement that called their christianity into question. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

ah that was almost painful. youre right that miles is not using the same standard of argument on himself. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. you just do not read do you!!! what part of the families story about being polygamists shown all across local tv on the one hand you tell me that i cannot use the discovery channel documentary to prove my argument and then you cite your own comparable sources. make up your mind please. .

From : stormin mormon

well now you think that miles who is calling on you for specific proof really will provide you with specific proof i doubt it. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. the mormon church here in mesa az ignored them. they were known. it was because they were polygamists that caused them to appear on tv and in the papers. please give me more to go on so that i can ask specific questions and i will make a few phone calls and see what i can find out. their names their church if what you say is true its a perfect opportunity to validate your statements. just give me a little more information. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

i think hed be hard pressed to find changes in the articles of faith. but he doesnt seem to have any problem making accusations. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote wrong. the 13 articles of faith the completely define the mormon chruch are the same as when they were originall written. wrong. what is different about the articles of faith in how they exist today compared to when they were originally written. .

From : stormin mormon

actually i know of no time the mormon church incidentally mormon church is a nickname was ever called the church of the latter-day saints. the church name including jesus name was given by revelation. http//scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/115/3-4#3 -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. smith formed the church of christ and later the the church of the latter day saints missing the name of christ. he formed the lds and the articles of faith define it. they have not changed. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

must be a new question then in that case its not a true and restored question would you think -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote should be your concern. suppose god has offered you salvation and exaltation. you refuse it. would you be concerned then that wasnt the question asked. it was regarding who is or isnt a christian. all religions bash each other claiming they are and the others arent. .

From : stormin mormon

enforced..... that would be behaviour. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. and i say again it doesnt merely reference the policy. it clearly states that the policy is enforced by stating they excommunicate violators. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

first disciplinary councils are held for one of a couple reasons. most commonly either to help a member receive forgiveness for whatever transgression has occured. second to protect the good name of the church. now folks who have been called to a disciplinary council fall into one of several categories. some folks are angry you cant do that to me. some are defiant go ahead youre just a church do your worse. some are uncaring whatever! and some are in denial what it was just a little..... and some are truly humble and seeking forgiveness ok let me know what you want me to do. a disciplinary council can be held at the ward/branch level or in some cases at the stake level. a ward council will be attended by the bishop and his two counsellors. a clerk may be present to monitor the technical details. a stake council will be attended by the stake president two counsellors and 12 members of the high council. very generally stated the procedure should be to have the leaders review the matter. the person in question will be invited in to the meeting to state his/ her position and answer questions. the person in question in most cases may bring a friend or someone directly involved to be with or to help answer questions. the leaders present will be given oportunity to ask the person questions. the person in question and friend or helper leave the room and discussion takes place. after some time the bishop or stake president will come out of the meeting and talk with the person in question. disciplinary councils can result in one of a couple verdicts. 1 no action 2 probation 3 disfellowshipment 4 excommunication. there is usually an invitation that the person should continue to attend church services and meet iwth church leaders every week every other week or perhaps monthly. in every case the goal of the disciplinary council is to lead the person to forgiveness in the sight of heavenly father. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon cayoung61-&spamblock*-@hotmail.com wrote in message that proves it! wasnt that easy ok ok....im guilty of something. whats my punishment - -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

if nothing else you posted a lot more evidence than miles. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon cayoung61-&spamblock*-@hotmail.com wrote in message that they excommunicate sure sounds like behaviour. they didnt say that the policy says to... yup my point exactly.......and i havent even tried to find anything yet. that was just a brief scan. id bet with a bit of digging i could come up with a lot more i just dont know that any of it would be worth the effort at this point. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

ive noticed a very noticable lack of evidence here. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote id like to see one single example of the church overlooking polygamy. just one. i gave you one. you just keep spinning it and ignoring the truth. so far youve given me nothing but unsubstantiated babble. ive requested specific details so that i can verify your tale. i even said please. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

this shouldnt come as a surprise. the bible-only churches cant agree who god is. which gives us things like the nicean creed. which i call god by committee. why would it come as a surprise that lds folks have a different view everyone else does. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. it isnt anti-mormon sentiment in this case. theres a fundamental difference having to do with jesus being god or jesus being the son of god or somethung like that. the mormans view jesus in a way that other christians do not. dont quote me on the technicality im not qualified . bg .

From : stormin mormon

that proves it! wasnt that easy -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote miles would like documented evidence that you have acted in a positive and definite manner to stop people form killing jews clubbing baby seals converting heathen tribes in africa colonizing australia exploring the moon and stealing land from american indians. and none of these links from stop the clubbing web site either. after all if lds folks can be blamed for polygamy because what apostate groups do surely you can be blamed for clubbing baby seals because what some eskimos do. its only fair. i think ill just jump ahead. miles says youre guilty. see how much work we saved hmm...not sure when i ever blamed anyone for anything but ill go along with the assumption hes guilty of something! .

From : stormin mormon

the bible-only churches cant agree on the nature of god. so i doubt any church out there would agree with the lds view. no big deal to me. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. it isnt anti-mormon sentiment in this case. theres a fundamental difference having to do with jesus being god or jesus being the son of god or somethung like that. the mormans view jesus in a way that other christians do not. dont quote me on the technicality im not qualified . no there is no difference. article of faith #1 we believe in god the father his son jesus christ and in the holy spirit paraphrasing but close enough. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

isnt it a shame when you keep getting accused of what the other guy is doing -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. you asked for such an example and i gave it. now you dont like it. make up your mind please. you didnt give me anything beyond your own opinion with no way for me to verify or disprove your statement. while i cited the discovery channel documentary i also gave you the link to the lds policy as well as a totally neutral link from a credible source about.com. .....and put some fiber in your diet. youre turning mean. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

compare the about link to miles anecdotal evidence.... thats a serious difference. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. to polygamy. both ignore it. i already gave one example that took place here in az. nate only gave what about.com and discovery channel said which was they have a policy. read the about.com link again. it does not limit their statement in any way to they have a policy. in fact it clearly states that they excommunicate polygamists. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

well it woulda been even more major if they changed the view of who is god or something like that. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. one major policy!! have you anything to show that policy was more important than any other it was one policy change.....just like they changed their policy to allow blacks to enter the priesthood. the times change as does policy. .

From : stormin mormon

i suspect you mean intolerance. but thats very true. many of the men either were killed or died along the trail. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. one that smith said was essential. when it was adopted it was essential for the very survival of the church. why do-gooder religions slaugthered their male members out of nothing more than religious indifference. .

From : stormin mormon

im not convinced the church name was changed twice. only once. does that mean that every other company that changes name is a different company weve got a lot of stock holders to notify if thats the case. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. besides they also changed their name twice. irrelevant. the trademarks never changed ownership and the articles of faith that establish and define the church remain unchanged to this very day. .

From : stormin mormon

should be your concern. suppose god has offered you salvation and exaltation. you refuse it. would you be concerned then -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote i didnt call anyone christian or not christian. mormons views are different and some others would say theyre not christians. that is fact. and they are dead wrong. that could be. not my concern. .

From : stormin mormon

one of the many things i like about the lds; very little bashing. and that was confined to the very early days of the church. for example in the first vision when god said to join one of the existing churches for they were all wrong. now days lds operates from strength. we teach what we know and invite others to follow. bet you cant find an example of lds church bashing another church. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote thank you for clarifying your position now i understand your intent and i agree completely with your statement. i said very early on that all religions seem to bash each other claiming theyre the right one and the others are wrong. its a problem with all organized religions and not unique to mormons. .

From : stormin mormon

what part of clearly states that they excommunicate did you miss -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote read the about.com link again. it does not limit their statement in any way to they have a policy. in fact it clearly states that they excommunicate polygamists. again a policy means nothing. there is a written law against polygamy to. the law ignores the issue as well. .

From : stormin mormon

were these lds in either case thats a lot of remembering for one pastor. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. ive went to two churches that each had over 600 members yet both pastors could tell you each of the members faults if they where following the churches beliefs sad to say one pastor chose to overlook the problems of his members while the other chose to tell them not to come back to the church if they couldnt follow the rules of the church. .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote only because you have yet to give me anything factual that you can substantiate. in your opinion. or should i just say i saw something on discovery channel and call it factual my reference to the discovery channel documentary was also substantiated by a neutral link that you can verify for yourself the about.com link. this is far more than you have provided. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

nathan wants some evidence of this. well come to think of it i do also. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote the lds church name was given in a revelation. its in the doctrine and covenants but i cant remember which section. sydney rigdon is the one who pushed smith to change it and remove the name of christ. not sure who later added it back in but the church has had 3 different names now. .

From : stormin mormon

one thing i like about the lds church. the general church policy is take what truths you have and come into the fold so we can increase the truth you have. i will admit i have heard some wrong-calling but only in the very early days of the church. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote ive seen a lot of people and web sites accusing mormons of being not christian. who cares i know what we are. that was my point. each lives life their own way. the trouble starts when they say the other religion is wrong. .

From : stormin mormon

http//scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/115/3-4#3 one of the interesting things about the church. only the current serving prophet has the authority to get revelations for the whole world. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote guess i ought to dig up the d and c section. anyhow the church name was given through revelation. whos revelation is that smith called it one thing sydney rigdon urged him later to change it then still later it was changed a 3rd time. all by differing revelations .

From : stormin mormon

jesus was pretty clear that there is none saved but through the son. so its scriptural to think that there is only one way to heaven. lds folks know that we are the only church with the authority to act in the name of god. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote a christian is a person who worships the resurrected saviour jesus christ as the only way to return to god the father though obedience to the commandments as revealed through the prophet joseph smith and later prophets of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints. some other christian groups say the mormons are not christians because they do not view who and what jesus was in the same way. for them there is only one right way. thats the trouble with organized religion. .

From : stormin mormon

i thought it was studied evidence. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote hear hear! nate has given more evidence than miles by far. lol!! discovery and about.com saying they have a policy! too funny!! .

From : stormin mormon

ah an example without details..... thats not very helpful. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote ok youre the one calling nathan for proof. lets see if you can live your own law. im calling for proof. not really. i only countered his own argument with same. there is no proof the mormon church does anything more than the law does with regards to polygamy. both ignore it. i already gave one example that took place here in az. nate only gave what about.com and discovery channel said which was they have a policy. .

From : stormin mormon

cfr! i only know of one name change. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. besides they also changed their name twice. .

From : stormin mormon

maybe youd like to study with the missionaries and find out for yourself -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. read nathan!! geez!! i didnt call anyone christian or not christian. mormons views are different and some others would say theyre not christians. that is fact. whether they are or not isnt my concern and i gave no such opinion on the matter to whether they are or arent. quit spinning!! .

From : stormin mormon

aparently sidney didnt get his way. bummer. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote he formed the lds and the articles of faith define it. they have not changed. he formed the church of christ. it was sydney rigdon who wanted it changed to lds without christ in the name. you knew that right .

From : stormin mormon

any more wrong than the catholics saying the protestants arent christian. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. i didnt call anyone christian or not christian. mormons views are different and some others would say theyre not christians. that is fact. and they are dead wrong. .

From : stormin mormon

i do believe nate gave you a link to research. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote only because you have yet to give me anything factual that you can substantiate. in your opinion. or should i just say i saw something on discovery channel and call it factual .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote lot of churches change one policy but that doesnt mean they are a totally new church. wasnt mcdonalds going to a low fat menu i guess that makes em a totally new restaurant. no but if they decided to do away with burgers completely and become a kosher deli selling bagels then perhaps. .

From : stormin mormon

http//scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/132 18 and again verily i say unto you if a man marry a wife and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity if that acovenant is not by me or by my word which is my law and is not sealed by the holy spirit of promise through him whom i have anointed and appointed unto this power then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world because they are not joined by me saith the lord neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there because the angels and the gods are appointed there by whom they cannot pass; they cannot therefore inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order saith the lord god. 19 and again verily i say unto you if a man amarry a wife by my word which is my law and by the new and beverlasting covenant and it is csealed unto them by the holy spirit of dpromise by him who is anointed unto whom i have appointed this power and the ekeys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them-ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection in the next resurrection; and shall inherit fthrones kingdoms principalities and powers dominions all heights and depths-then shall it be written in the lambs gbook of life that he shall commit no hmurder whereby to shed innocent iblood and if ye abide in my covenant and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them in time and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels and the gods which are set there to their jexaltation and glory in all things as hath been sealed upon their heads which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the kseeds forever and ever. incidentally that covenant is temple marriage. to be sealed by the power of the priesthood. it isnt polygamy. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. not only were they permitted to have multiple wives they were required to do it to reach the highest heaven. joseph smith made the following revelation concerning the subject of specific topic of polygamy from the lord for behold i reveal unto you a new and everlasting covenant and if ye abide not that covenant then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my lords glory doctrine and covenants 1324. .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote read the about.com link again. it does not limit their statement in any way to they have a policy. in fact it clearly states that they excommunicate polygamists. again a policy means nothing. there is a written law against polygamy to. the law ignores the issue as well. and i say again it doesnt merely reference the policy. it clearly states that the policy is enforced by stating they excommunicate violators. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

stormin mormon wrote ah an example without details..... thats not very helpful. some guy on the internet saying he saw something on a show on discovery is why do you continue to mention my reference to the documentary but conveniently leave out the verifiable credible about.com link that suports it could it be that you leave it out every time because it clearly substantiates my entire argument -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

stormin mormon wrote compare the about link to miles anecdotal evidence.... thats a serious difference. why because its some website saying something that you agree with a website can be shown that says anything you want it to. are you suggesting that about.com is not credible -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

that would make them descendents of mcdonalds. an interesting thought. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote lot of churches change one policy but that doesnt mean they are a totally new church. wasnt mcdonalds going to a low fat menu i guess that makes em a totally new restaurant. no but if they decided to do away with burgers completely and become a kosher deli selling bagels then perhaps. .

From : stormin mormon

just as long as you post the link here. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote compare the about link to miles anecdotal evidence.... thats a serious difference. why because its some website saying something that you agree with a website can be shown that says anything you want it to. hmm ill create a website that says what i want it too. that should suffice! .

From : stormin mormon

23 questions answered by the book of mormon 1. does the bible contain all of gods word 2 nephi 29 pp. 109-111 2. who were the other sheep referred to by jesus as recorded in john 1016 3 nephi 1513-24 pp. 438-38. 3. how can a person know that the book of mormon is true moroni 103-5 p. 529 4. how can a desire to believe develop into strong faith alma 32 pp. 288-91 5. what is the purpose of human existence 2 nephi 225 p. 59 6. how can god be both just and merciful alma 42 pp. 311-13 7. what happens to our spirits at death alma 4011-14 p. 308 8. how can a person turn his personal weaknesses into strengths ether 1227 p.510. 9. what happened on the american continent when jesus was born in bethlehem 3 nephi 115-21 p. 408 10. what happened on the american continent when the savior was crucified in jerusalem 3 nephi 85-23 pp. 422-23. 11. what must we witness unto the father by being baptised 2 nephi 3110-14 pp. 113-114. 12. why was jesus christ baptised 2 nephi 314-9 p. 113 13. just what is the gospel of jesus christ how did the savior explain what it is 3 nephi 2713-21 p. 459 14. why was the atonement of jesus christ necessary 2 nephi 94-14 pp. 72-74 alma 348-17 pp. 293-94. 15. to what extent are men accountable for their choices and their actions 2 nephi 925-27 p. 75 2 nephi 227 p. 59 helaman 1430-31 p. 403 16. do little children need repentance and baptism moroni 81-24 pp. 525-26. 17. does the lord always protect the righteous from the unrighteous alma 6012-13 p. 359 18. how did a prophet who lived 600 b.c. describe our day 2 nephi 28 pp. 106-109 19. what should we pray about alma 3417-28 pp. 294-95. 20. why should we not procrastinate our repentance alma 3430-41 pp. 295-96 21. what will our bodies be like in the resurrection alma 4023 p. 309 22. are we saved by grace by works or both 2 nephi 2523 pp. 99-100 23. in a world with so many conflicting voices how can a person judge what is good and what is evil moroni 103-5 p. 522 -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote ah an example without details..... thats not very helpful. some guy on the internet saying he saw something on a show on discovery is why do you continue to mention my reference to the documentary but conveniently leave out the verifiable credible about.com link that suports it could it be that you leave it out every time because it clearly substantiates my entire argument -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

lets see some dates and some references. where for example in the d and c -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote when it was adopted it was essential for the very survival of the church. why do-gooder religions slaugthered their male members out of nothing more than religious indifference. that isnt the reason for polygamy at all. your timeline is way off on the matter. smith made this revelation long before any males were slaughtered for it is my will that in time ye should take unto you wives of the lamanites and nephites that their posterity may become white delightsome and just for even now their females are more virtuous than the gentiles. joseph smith hoped that if mormon elders married native-american women then the mormons could legally settle on native-american lands in kansas which was then off-limits to white settlers. as these events occurred long before there were any mormon men killed by persecution and smiths revelation dealt only with taking native-american women to wife the idea that polygamy was created because mormon widows needed husbands angle is without merit. .

From : stormin mormon

i would run jump and ramble. i would hop leap and scramble.... -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. on fri 16 feb 2007 091129 -0500 stormin mormon cayoung61-&spamblock*-@hotmail.com wrote miles would like documented evidence that you have acted in a positive and definite manner to stop people form killing jews clubbing baby seals converting heathen tribes in africa colonizing australia exploring the moon and stealing land from american indians. and none of these links from stop the clubbing web site either. id like positive proof that stormin mormon has a brain. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote compare the about link to miles anecdotal evidence.... thats a serious difference. why because its some website saying something that you agree with a website can be shown that says anything you want it to. hmm ill create a website that says what i want it too. that should suffice! .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote should be your concern. suppose god has offered you salvation and exaltation. you refuse it. would you be concerned then that wasnt the question asked. it was regarding who is or isnt a christian. all religions bash each other claiming they are and the others arent. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote bet you cant find an example of lds church bashing another church. official statements of such would be hard to find from any church towards another. its more common of individuals doing the bashing on their own. leaders usually dont. the public backlash would be too great. .

From : nathan in montana

that proves it! wasnt that easy ok ok....im guilty of something. whats my punishment - -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

i suspect you mean intolerance. indeed. its what i get for haste. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

no but it might make them elvistians. followers of elvis. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. wow theres folks that attend the church of elvis does that make them elvis and if this doesnt prove something your heads definitely filled with jello! .

From : stormin mormon

but who gets to decide -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. just because you self-proclaim your religion is jesus doesnt mean it has anything to do with jesus. as if you thought such a simple statement would persuade even a monkey. .

From : stormin mormon

at least nathan provided a link. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote ah an example without details..... thats not very helpful. some guy on the internet saying he saw something on a show on discovery is .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote why do you continue to mention my reference to the documentary but conveniently leave out the verifiable credible about.com link about.com has less credibility that wikpedia. besides it did nothing but reiterate what the policy is. it did not give any historical data showing the policy has been enforced. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote are you suggesting that about.com is not credible the article didnt try to prove anything. it just stated what the mormon policy is. yes we know the policy says polygamists are excommunicated. key word here is says. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote at least nathan provided a link. ah yes the ever popular usenet debate tactic of a link. there are links that will say anything you want them to. about.com is editorial letters from nytimes. there is one article on about.com discussing the rampant oppression of women at byu by the lds. must be 100% true right .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote just as long as you post the link here. so if i create a website that disagrees with you and nate and posted the link here then it must be true huh good grief. about.com is a collection of editorial commentary mostly from submissions to the nytimes. .

From : stormin mormon

the everlasting covenant is temple marriage. not polygamy. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. it wasnt just an idea that could or couldnt be followed. it was the only way according to smith. even if i accept everything you say at face value without question it was still legal as well as considered socially and morally accepted at that time. no harm no foul. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

the articles of faith. in the spring of 1842 the prophet joseph smith sent a letter to john wentworth who was editor of a paper called the chicago democrat. this letter contained an account of many of the events of early church history. the document also contained thirteen statements outlining latter-day saint beliefs. these have come to be known as the articles of faith which are given below. the articles of faith are official doctrine of the church and have been canonized as a part of latter-day scripture. they are clear statements of belief that help members understand the basic beliefs of the church and explain these beliefs to others. they are not however a complete summary of church doctrine. through living prophets the church is guided by continuous revelation and inspiration. 1. we believe in god the eternal father and in his son jesus christ and in the holy ghost. 2. we believe that men will be punished for their own sins and not for adams transgression. 3. we believe that through the atonement of christ all mankind may be saved by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel. 4. we believe that the first principles and ordinances of the gospel are first faith in the lord jesus christ; second repentance; third baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth laying on of hands for the gift of the holy ghost. 5. we believe that a man must be called of god by prophecy and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority to preach the gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof. 6. we believe in the same organization that existed in the primitive church namely apostles prophets pastors teachers evangelists and so forth. 7. we believe in the gift of tongues prophecy revelation visions healing interpretation of tongues and so forth. 8. we believe the bible to be the word of god as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the book of mormon to be the word of god. 9. we believe all that god has revealed all that he does now reveal and we believe that he will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the kingdom of god. 10. we believe in the literal gathering of israel and in the restoration of the ten tribes; that zion the new jerusalem will be built upon the american continent; that christ will reign personally upon the earth; and that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory. 11. we claim the privilege of worshiping almighty god according to the dictates of our own conscience and allow all men the same privilege let them worship how where or what they may. 12. we believe in being subject to kings presidents rulers and magistrates in obeying honoring and sustaining the law. 13. we believe in being honest true chaste benevolent virtuous and in doing good to all men; indeed we may say that we follow the admonition of paul--we believe all things we hope all things we have endured many things and hope to be able to endure all things. if there is anything virtuous lovely or of good report or praiseworthy we seek after these things. joseph smith. .. stormin mormon cayoung61-&spamblock*-@hotmail.com wrote in message i think hed be hard pressed to find changes in the articles of faith. but he doesnt seem to have any problem making accusations. theyre actually dang decent rules to live by no matter what religion one claims. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

though it sure would be an indicator of polyg. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon cayoung61-&spamblock*-@hotmail.com wrote in message lets see what my other wife says and ill get back to you. that would make a good t-shirt. - -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

points of the true church christ organized the church eph 411-14 the true church must bear the name of jesus christ eph 523 the true church must have a foundation of apostles and prophets eph 219-20 the true church must have the same organization as christs church eph 411-14 the true church must claim divine authority heb 44-10 the true church must have no paid ministry acts 2033-34; john 1011-13 the true church must baptize by immersion matt 313-16 the true church must bestow the gift of the holy ghost by the laying on of hands acts 814-17 the true church must practice divine healing mark 314-15 the true church must teach that god and jesus are separate and distinct individuals john 1711; 2017 the true church must teach that god and jesus have bodies of flesh and bone luke 2336-39; acts 19-11; heb 11-3 the officers must be called by god heb 44; ex 281; 4013-16 the true church must claim revelation from god amos 37 the true church must be a missionary church matt 2819-20 the true church must be a restored church acts 319-20 the true church must practice baptism for the dead 1cor 1516&29 by their fruits ye shall know them. matt 720 -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon cayoung61-&spamblock*-@hotmail.com wrote in message i suspect you mean intolerance. indeed. its what i get for haste. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote and i say again it doesnt merely reference the policy. it clearly states that the policy is enforced by stating they excommunicate violators. thats just reiterating the policy. the utah gov. says they enforce their laws. neither then nor the church do any such thing. saying they do doesnt make it so. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote even if i accept everything you say at face value without question it was still legal as well as considered socially and morally accepted at that time. no harm no foul. thats very true. never said otherwise. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote nowhere does it say anything about the policy. it states rather simply that they excommunicate those who practice it as well as those who advocate polygamy. so because some editorial commentary says they do then it must be so huh should be easy for you to give lots of examples of such then right .

From : stormin mormon

have you been saved elder dallin h. oaks of the quorum of the twelve apostles dallin h. oaks have you been saved ensign may 1998 55 what do we say when someone asks us have you been saved this question so common in the conversation of some christians can be puzzling to members of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints because it is not our usual way of speaking. we tend to speak of saved or salvation as a future event rather than something that has already been realized. good christian people sometimes attach different meanings to some key gospel terms like saved or salvation. if we answer according to what our questioner probably means in asking if we have been saved our answer must be yes. if we answer according to the various meanings we attach to the terms saved or salvation our answer will be either yes or yes but with conditions. i. as i understand what is meant by the good christians who speak in these terms we are saved when we sincerely declare or confess that we have accepted jesus christ as our personal lord and savior. this meaning relies on words the apostle paul taught the christians of his day if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the lord jesus and shalt believe in thine heart that god hath raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved. for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation rom. 109-10. to latter-day saints the words saved and salvation in this teaching signify a present covenant relationship with jesus christ in which we are assured salvation from the consequences of sin if we are obedient. every sincere latter-day saint is saved according to this meaning. we have been converted to the restored gospel of jesus christ we have experienced repentance and baptism and we are renewing our covenants of baptism by partaking of the sacrament. ii. as latter-day saints use the words saved and salvation there are at least six different meanings. according to some of these our salvation is assuredwe are already saved. in others salvation must be spoken of as a future event e.g. 1 cor. 55 or as conditioned upon a future event e.g. mark 1313. but in all of these meanings or kinds of salvation salvation is in and through jesus christ. first all mortals have been saved from the permanence of death through the resurrection of jesus christ. for as in adam all die even so in christ shall all be made alive 1 cor. 1522. as to salvation from sin and the consequences of sin our answer to the question of whether or not we have been saved is yes but with conditions. our third article of faith declares our belief we believe that through the atonement of christ all mankind may be saved by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel a of f 13. many bible verses declare that jesus came to take away the sins of the world e.g. john 129; matt. 2628. the new testament frequently refers to the grace of god and to salvation by grace e.g. john 117; acts 1511; eph. 28. but it also has many specific commandments on personal behavior and many references to the importance of works e.g. matt. 516; eph. 210; james 214-17. in addition the savior taught that we must endure to the end in order to be saved see matt. 1022; mark 1313. relying upon the totality of bible teachings and upon clarifications received through modern revelation we testify that being cleansed from sin through christs atonement is conditioned upon the individual sinners faith which must be manifested by obedience to the lords command to repent be baptized and receive the holy ghost see acts 237-38. verily verily i say unto thee jesus taught except a man be born of water and of the spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of god john 35; see also mark 1616; acts 237-38. believers who have had this required rebirth at the hands of those having authority have already been saved from sin conditionally but they will not be saved finally until they have completed their mortal probation with the required continuing repentance faithfulness service and enduring to the end. some christians accuse latter-day saints who give this answer of denying the grace of god through claiming they can earn their own salvation. we answer this accusation with the words of two book of mormon prophets. nephi taught for we labor diligently to persuade our children to believe in christ and to be reconciled to god; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved after all we can do 2 ne. 2523. and what is all we can do it surely includes repentance see alma 2411 and baptism keeping the commandments and enduring to the end. moroni pleaded yea come unto christ and be perfected in him and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness and love god with all your might mind and strength then is his grace sufficient for you that by his grace ye may

From : nathan in montana

that they excommunicate sure sounds like behaviour. they didnt say that the policy says to... yup my point exactly.......and i havent even tried to find anything yet. that was just a brief scan. id bet with a bit of digging i could come up with a lot more i just dont know that any of it would be worth the effort at this point. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

it sure would keep the thread alive -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon cayoung61-&spamblock*-@hotmail.com wrote in message that they excommunicate sure sounds like behaviour. they didnt say that the policy says to... yup my point exactly.......and i havent even tried to find anything yet. that was just a brief scan. id bet with a bit of digging i could come up with a lot more i just dont know that any of it would be worth the effort at this point. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

http//www.signaturebookslibrary.org/essays/mormonpolygamy.htm during the post-manifesto period many mormons felt the need to continue the principle even though they knew they would be excommunicated from the church as a result. sounds like proactive behaviour to me -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon cayoung61-&spamblock*-@hotmail.com wrote in message that they excommunicate sure sounds like behaviour. they didnt say that the policy says to... yup my point exactly.......and i havent even tried to find anything yet. that was just a brief scan. id bet with a bit of digging i could come up with a lot more i just dont know that any of it would be worth the effort at this point. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote ....so whats your excuse to discredit the wiki link i posted that says the same thing theres lots of links that state what the policy is. anyone can add anything they want to wikipedia. you seem bent on the notion that because someone says what the policy is that it must be true despite the lack of any historical data to support such a claim. .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote and i say again it doesnt merely reference the policy. it clearly states that the policy is enforced by stating they excommunicate violators. thats just reiterating the policy. there is no need to reinforce that the policy exists. the article clearly states that violators are excommunicated. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote why do you continue to mention my reference to the documentary but conveniently leave out the verifiable credible about.com link about.com has less credibility that wikpedia. funny you should mention wikipedia. from http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/mormonfundamentalism today the lds church will excommunicate any of its members who advocate or practice plural marriage that clear enough for you miles it a link that you say is more credible than about.com doesnt in any way limit its statement to the policy exists. it also goes on to say polygamous mormon fundamentalists are mormon fundamentalist groups who continue to practice plural marriage a form of polygamy even though that practice has been abandoned by the larger mainstream denominations of the latter day saint movement. many polygamous mormon fundamentalists belong to sects that have separated themselves from the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints which officially abandoned the practice around the turn of the 20th century. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote are you suggesting that about.com is not credible the article didnt try to prove anything. it just stated what the mormon policy is. yes we know the policy says polygamists are excommunicated. key word here is says. not only does church policy say it about.com as well as wikipedia that ive just quoted you in my last post! says they do it. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

stormin mormon wrote that they excommunicate sure sounds like behaviour. they didnt say that the policy says to... the article gave no references to such. it did not give historical data that shows a pattern of doing so. it was just an editorial commentary that because it was on about.com you seem to suggest must be true and accept it as such. .....so whats your excuse to discredit the wiki link i posted that says the same thing -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote as well as documentaries ive seen of actual people where excommunicated for polygamy. youve seen well...must be then huh .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote if i find the website credible yes. what makes nytimes editorial commentary on about.com or anyones commentary on wikipedia credible .

From : stormin mormon

he seems to think the links are not believable. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote that they excommunicate sure sounds like behaviour. they didnt say that the policy says to... the article gave no references to such. it did not give historical data that shows a pattern of doing so. it was just an editorial commentary that because it was on about.com you seem to suggest must be true and accept it as such. ....so whats your excuse to discredit the wiki link i posted that says the same thing -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

since lds church discipline is kept confidential thats gonna be hard to prove or disprove. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote from http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/mormonfundamentalism today the lds church will excommunicate any of its members who advocate or practice plural marriage the question isnt what the policy is. its whether they actively enforce it or not. the public isnt interested in going after polygamists at least not in the state of utah. .

From : stormin mormon

actually as ive been lds for at least a few years. yes church discipline is usually kept confidential. except for certain exceptions. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote not only does church policy say it about.com as well as wikipedia that ive just quoted you in my last post! says they do it. great. should be easy for you to show lots of examples recently of them doing just that. or are you going to tell me they keep it hidden from public knowledge .

From : stormin mormon

historical data. well now we are on to something. if we provide historical data would that be better -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote ....so whats your excuse to discredit the wiki link i posted that says the same thing theres lots of links that state what the policy is. anyone can add anything they want to wikipedia. you seem bent on the notion that because someone says what the policy is that it must be true despite the lack of any historical data to support such a claim. .

From : stormin mormon

i was able to find at least one more web site which said the lds church actually exxes polygamists. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. the question isnt what the policy is. its whether they actively enforce it or not. the public isnt interested in going after polygamists at least not in the state of utah. nowhere does it say anything about the policy. it states rather simply that they excommunicate those who practice it as well as those who advocate polygamy. yet another source that validates my original statement........and a source that you recognize credibility in at least more so than about.com which is also a pretty dang credible source!. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

right. unless there is some compelling reason. such as to protect the good name of the church. an example would be someone whos on the saying they are a mormon polygamist. and the church might issue a statement saying that no they are not members of the lds church. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote not only does church policy say it about.com as well as wikipedia that ive just quoted you in my last post! says they do it. great. should be easy for you to show lots of examples recently of them doing just that. or are you going to tell me they keep it hidden from public knowledge like it or not excommunication is an internal issue. my sources support my statements and you have given me nothing to refute it. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

flip flopping. a typical argument method for usenet users. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote ....so whats your excuse to discredit the wiki link i posted that says the same thing theres lots of links that state what the policy is. it doesnt say what the policy is. it says that they do excommunicate polygamists. anyone can add anything they want to wikipedia lol.........you sent me to wiki by saying they were more credible than about.com. now that wiki says the same thing you flip-flop and question their integrity as well. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com . you seem bent on the notion that because someone says what the policy is that it must be true despite the lack of any historical data to support such a claim. .

From : stormin mormon

changing the subject. a very common tactic with usenet flame wars. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote the everlasting covenant is temple marriage. not polygamy. look up the mormon views on celestial marriage differences between men and women. what happens in the afterlife they are clearly not the same. .

From : stormin mormon

ah gee. we got to go for that record. were half way there! -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon cayoung61-&spamblock*-@hotmail.com wrote in message it sure would keep the thread alive ....perhaps ill wait until things start to fizzle. - -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

id noticed that the article did state the behaviour as well as the policy. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote and i say again it doesnt merely reference the policy. it clearly states that the policy is enforced by stating they excommunicate violators. thats just reiterating the policy. there is no need to reinforce that the policy exists. the article clearly states that violators are excommunicated. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

i wonder what website miles thinks is reputable perhaps the carm one -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote why do you continue to mention my reference to the documentary but conveniently leave out the verifiable credible about.com link about.com has less credibility that wikpedia. funny you should mention wikipedia. from http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/mormonfundamentalism today the lds church will excommunicate any of its members who advocate or practice plural marriage that clear enough for you miles it a link that you say is more credible than about.com doesnt in any way limit its statement to the policy exists. it also goes on to say polygamous mormon fundamentalists are mormon fundamentalist groups who continue to practice plural marriage a form of polygamy even though that practice has been abandoned by the larger mainstream denominations of the latter day saint movement. many polygamous mormon fundamentalists belong to sects that have separated themselves from the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints which officially abandoned the practice around the turn of the 20th century. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nosey

ive attended catholic services baptist services methodist services and quite a few more. ive seen many references to those evil mormons but ive never seen anyone other than you say they werent christians. holy smokes they are the church of jesus christ of latter day saints. wheres budd when you need him see http//www.carm.org/lds/seekers.htm wow theres folks that attend the church of elvis does that make them elvis and if this doesnt prove something your heads definitely filled with jello! theres a great many folks out there that claim to be computer consultants and make money as professional computer repair technicians however anyone working on a computer theyve fixed will know the more they blow their own horn the less they know what a computer is in the first place. same theory applies with religion. just because you self-proclaim your religion is jesus doesnt mean it has anything to do with jesus. as if you thought such a simple statement would persuade even a monkey. why would /my/ head be filled with jello -- ken .

From : stormin mormon

because church discipline is confidential duh! -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote since lds church discipline is kept confidential thats gonna be hard to prove or disprove. not really. when a family is discovered to be polygamists its almost always on the nightly . usually the general public knows about such a family long before the church says or does a thing. .

From : stormin mormon

it wont be me. i havnt heard this. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. the lds church has different views on the afterlife depending on gender. the man will reunite with all his wives. a woman who remarries will not reunite with all her husbands. please quote a source. thanks. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

well theres this guy on usenet who keeps calling them not credible.... -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. what makes nytimes editorial commentary on about.com or anyones commentary on wikipedia credible have you anything verifyable in the world that would impugn the integrity of about.com anything -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote there is no need to reinforce that the policy exists. the article clearly states that violators are excommunicated. you said that already. the question is whether thats actually happening or not. my links say that it does happen. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote from http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/mormonfundamentalism today the lds church will excommunicate any of its members who advocate or practice plural marriage the question isnt what the policy is. its whether they actively enforce it or not. the public isnt interested in going after polygamists at least not in the state of utah. nowhere does it say anything about the policy. it states rather simply that they excommunicate those who practice it as well as those who advocate polygamy. yet another source that validates my original statement........and a source that you recognize credibility in at least more so than about.com which is also a pretty dang credible source!. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote not only does church policy say it about.com as well as wikipedia that ive just quoted you in my last post! says they do it. great. should be easy for you to show lots of examples recently of them doing just that. or are you going to tell me they keep it hidden from public knowledge like it or not excommunication is an internal issue. my sources support my statements and you have given me nothing to refute it. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote ....so whats your excuse to discredit the wiki link i posted that says the same thing theres lots of links that state what the policy is. it doesnt say what the policy is. it says that they do excommunicate polygamists. anyone can add anything they want to wikipedia lol.........you sent me to wiki by saying they were more credible than about.com. now that wiki says the same thing you flip-flop and question their integrity as well. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .. you seem bent on the notion that because someone says what the policy is that it must be true despite the lack of any historical data to support such a claim. .

From : stormin mormon

name calling now thats a great way to win a flame war. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote well now you think that miles who is calling on you for specific proof really will provide you with specific proof i doubt it. the only time i asked for his proof was in response to his own requests. i really dont care if he does or doesnt. its the hypocrisy of it all. .

From : stormin mormon

i didnt think so. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote bet you cant find an example of lds church bashing another church. official statements of such would be hard to find from any church towards another. its more common of individuals doing the bashing on their own. leaders usually dont. the public backlash would be too great. .

From : stormin mormon

thats why he nathan posted evidence it was so. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote and i say again it doesnt merely reference the policy. it clearly states that the policy is enforced by stating they excommunicate violators. thats just reiterating the policy. the utah gov. says they enforce their laws. neither then nor the church do any such thing. saying they do doesnt make it so. .

From : stormin mormon

well lets see a link -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote at least nathan provided a link. ah yes the ever popular usenet debate tactic of a link. there are links that will say anything you want them to. about.com is editorial letters from nytimes. there is one article on about.com discussing the rampant oppression of women at byu by the lds. must be 100% true right .

From : stormin mormon

well have to view it and get back to you. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote just as long as you post the link here. so if i create a website that disagrees with you and nate and posted the link here then it must be true huh good grief. about.com is a collection of editorial commentary mostly from submissions to the nytimes. .

From : stormin mormon

quoting the policy of the early members. sounded good to me. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote that they excommunicate sure sounds like behaviour. they didnt say that the policy says to... the article gave no references to such. it did not give historical data that shows a pattern of doing so. it was just an editorial commentary that because it was on about.com you seem to suggest must be true and accept it as such. .

From : stormin mormon

what i have heard is that marriages in the temple are for all eternity. so folks with multiple wives married in the temple can be together in the afterlife. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote during the post-manifesto period many mormons felt the need to continue the principle even though they knew they would be excommunicated from the church as a result. they continue it through the afterlife quite clearly. .

From : stormin mormon

im not sure what hed consider more believable. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote are you suggesting that about.com is not credible the article didnt try to prove anything. it just stated what the mormon policy is. yes we know the policy says polygamists are excommunicated. key word here is says. not only does church policy say it about.com as well as wikipedia that ive just quoted you in my last post! says they do it. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

well it says they are.... -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote there is no need to reinforce that the policy exists. the article clearly states that violators are excommunicated. you said that already. the question is whether thats actually happening or not. .

From : stormin mormon

i consider the matter to be settled then. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. you said that already. the question is whether thats actually happening or not. my links say that it does happen. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

i suspect thats a figure of speech. like once in a blue moon. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. wow theres folks that attend the church of elvis does that make them elvis and if this doesnt prove something your heads definitely filled with jello! why would /my/ head be filled with jello -- ken .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote like it or not excommunication is an internal issue. my sources support my statements and you have given me nothing to refute it. so do you routinely buy into whatever some website says and accept it as truth even when it gives no evidence of such there is no evidence to support any claim that the lds actively enforces its own policy. just saying they do doesnt mean diddly! .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote lol.........you sent me to wiki by saying they were more credible than about.com. youre not too good at sarcasim!! saying something is better than the editorial commentary found on nytimes about.com isnt saying much! .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote name calling now thats a great way to win a flame war. name calling hmm...spinning is a great way to flame! .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote thats why he nathan posted evidence it was so. it wasnt evidence of such. nothing was presented to support the claim. only the claim itself. statements do not classify as evidence. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote well have to view it and get back to you. why if a website says its so then it must be so per your standards. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote i wonder what website miles thinks is reputable perhaps the carm one any website that supports its own claims with hard factual evidence would do. just saying something is so doesnt make it so. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote what i have heard is that marriages in the temple are for all eternity. so folks with multiple wives married in the temple can be together in the afterlife. the lds church has different views on the afterlife depending on gender. the man will reunite with all his wives. a woman who remarries will not reunite with all her husbands. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote since lds church discipline is kept confidential thats gonna be hard to prove or disprove. not really. when a family is discovered to be polygamists its almost always on the nightly . usually the general public knows about such a family long before the church says or does a thing. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote historical data. well now we are on to something. if we provide historical data would that be better it would be far better than just saying something is so. how many polygamists did the church go after in the last say 5 years .

From : nathan in montana

stormin mormon wrote thats why he nathan posted evidence it was so. it wasnt evidence of such. nothing was presented to support the claim. only the claim itself. statements do not classify as evidence. ive given you 3 sources now that support my position 2 of which you can verify yourself and 1 you stated was more credible than the other. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

stormin mormon wrote what i have heard is that marriages in the temple are for all eternity. so folks with multiple wives married in the temple can be together in the afterlife. the lds church has different views on the afterlife depending on gender. the man will reunite with all his wives. a woman who remarries will not reunite with all her husbands. please quote a source. thanks. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

so because some editorial commentary says they do then it must be so huh its not just one source its many sources that support the published policy as well as documentaries ive seen of actual people where excommunicated for polygamy. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

so do you routinely buy into whatever some website says and accept it as truth even when it gives no evidence of such if i find the website credible yes. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote the lds church has different views on the afterlife depending on gender. the man will reunite with all his wives. a woman who remarries will not reunite with all her husbands. please quote a source. thanks. from your own source on about.com therefore per your standards it must be the truth. http//tinyurl.com/yuyk4g however polygamy is still in practice in the church just in a less obvious form. if a womans husband dies she may after a suitable mourning period marry another man as long as she marries him for time or only until death. after death she will be brought into heaven to be with her first and true husband for eternity. however if a mans wife dies he may marry again celestially thus providing for himself a polygamous family in heaven. .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote ive given you 3 sources now that support my position 2 of which you can verify yourself and 1 you stated was more credible than the other. just statements devoid of any evidence. lol.....what do you want pictures of them being drug from the church or something -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote as well as documentaries ive seen of actual people where excommunicated for polygamy. youve seen well...must be then huh i have no doubt that its true. you dont either but it doesnt fit within your anti-mormon agenda. theres no other explanation for why you would cry foul with multiple links that support my position. in the end ill actually make a real effort to search for more examples and then sit back and watch your response. to say they do not excommunicate for polygamy is assinine. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote if i find the website credible yes. what makes nytimes editorial commentary on about.com or anyones commentary on wikipedia credible have you anything verifyable in the world that would impugn the integrity of about.com anything -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote but it doesnt fit within your anti-mormon agenda. anti-mormon agenda youre sounding more and more like youre studying buddism. what part of my statement regarding all organized religions didnt you understand .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote have you anything verifyable in the world that would impugn the integrity of about.com anything i have many good mormon friends in utah and visit often. i rely on their views on the matter more than i would nytimes editorial commentary or some guy on the internet that says he say a show on discovery. you must have missed my comment regarding the modern lds probably being a far better church than in the smith era. hardly anti-mormon agenda. .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote but it doesnt fit within your anti-mormon agenda. anti-mormon agenda your reluctance to accept any source of information contrary to your own beliefs is telling. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

you know miles you really should provide some evidence. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote like it or not excommunication is an internal issue. my sources support my statements and you have given me nothing to refute it. so do you routinely buy into whatever some website says and accept it as truth even when it gives no evidence of such there is no evidence to support any claim that the lds actively enforces its own policy. just saying they do doesnt mean diddly! .

From : stormin mormon

nathan is doing very well actually. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote nowhere does it say anything about the policy. it states rather simply that they excommunicate those who practice it as well as those who advocate polygamy. so because some editorial commentary says they do then it must be so huh should be easy for you to give lots of examples of such then right .

From : stormin mormon

i dont see a lot of evidence from you miles. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote lol.........you sent me to wiki by saying they were more credible than about.com. youre not too good at sarcasim!! saying something is better than the editorial commentary found on nytimes about.com isnt saying much! .

From : stormin mormon

ok so why dont you present some web sites with hard factual evidence that the mormons ignore polygamy -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote i wonder what website miles thinks is reputable perhaps the carm one any website that supports its own claims with hard factual evidence would do. just saying something is so doesnt make it so. .

From : stormin mormon

lets see some hard credible evidence of this -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote what i have heard is that marriages in the temple are for all eternity. so folks with multiple wives married in the temple can be together in the afterlife. the lds church has different views on the afterlife depending on gender. the man will reunite with all his wives. a woman who remarries will not reunite with all her husbands. .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote have you anything verifyable in the world that would impugn the integrity of about.com anything i have many good mormon friends in utah and visit often. you didnt answer my question. have you anything verifiable that would impugn the integrity of about.com -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

why dont you also tell me what socks i wear -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote well have to view it and get back to you. why if a website says its so then it must be so per your standards. .

From : stormin mormon

how many did they condone -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote historical data. well now we are on to something. if we provide historical data would that be better it would be far better than just saying something is so. how many polygamists did the church go after in the last say 5 years .

From : stormin mormon

hes got enough evidence to fill devoid. get depicture -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote ive given you 3 sources now that support my position 2 of which you can verify yourself and 1 you stated was more credible than the other. just statements devoid of any evidence. .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote you didnt answer my question. have you anything verifiable that would impugn the integrity of about.com hmm...lets see here. you want proof that someone doesnt do something how about proof that they do i simply wish to know if youve any valid reason to doubt about.com thats all. i wonder if you doubt them because you have a valid reason not to or if you doubt them because their statement is in contradiction to yours. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

its true cuz its on the internet. coming from someone who has added nothing to substantiate anything hes said. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : yabahoobs

i simply wish to know if youve any valid reason to doubt about.com thats all. i wonder if you doubt them because you have a valid reason not to or if you doubt them because their statement is in contradiction to yours. its a website nothing more. miles could respond about.com is as credible as myself. the root of your backing of about.com is that its a website provided by a search engine. so basically its true cuz its on the internet. hence your problem. try again nathan. i know you will ya jackass. .

From : stormin mormon

doesnt change that it sounds anti-mormon. just cause you have ten dogs doesnt change that bark that sounds like a dobie. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote but it doesnt fit within your anti-mormon agenda. anti-mormon agenda youre sounding more and more like youre studying buddism. what part of my statement regarding all organized religions didnt you understand .

From : stormin mormon

i missed it also. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote have you anything verifyable in the world that would impugn the integrity of about.com anything i have many good mormon friends in utah and visit often. i rely on their views on the matter more than i would nytimes editorial commentary or some guy on the internet that says he say a show on discovery. you must have missed my comment regarding the modern lds probably being a far better church than in the smith era. hardly anti-mormon agenda. .

From : stormin mormon

closed minded isnt necessarily anti. but in this case it sure seems so. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote but it doesnt fit within your anti-mormon agenda. anti-mormon agenda your reluctance to accept any source of information contrary to your own beliefs is telling. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

youre right. miles didnt provide evidence. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote have you anything verifyable in the world that would impugn the integrity of about.com anything i have many good mormon friends in utah and visit often. you didnt answer my question. have you anything verifiable that would impugn the integrity of about.com -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

hahahahahahaha church discipline is confidential. unless there is some compelling reason to go public. most nearly all church discipline is never known outside a few involved people. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote your reluctance to accept any source of information contrary to your own beliefs is telling. a statement saying somebody does something doesnt mean diddly. there have been a few cases of excommunication over other issues and they always make the in utah. its a big deal when someone is excommunicated in utah. .

From : yabahoobs

. but overall were about religion. were also right. bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahaahhahaha.... !!!! .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote hahahahahahaha church discipline is confidential. unless there is some compelling reason to go public. the church doesnt need to go public with it for an excommunication involving a polygamist family to end up on the nightly . .

From : miles

about a1/2 length due to tire spin but by the time we were at 50mph i was by him and pulled to about 2 lengths @100. tried it twice more and the results were the same but we left together. he went out and bought a bhaf and a 5 exhaust. didnt seem to matter much the results were about the same. now hes pissed buys a smarty. boy do those things work! if they had one for the cummins id have bought one and really pissed him off. both trucks were auto 4x4 with 411 or whatever rear gears. mine was a 04 qc. if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving probably an old 12 valve lol that may be the case but my buddies f350 stomped on a cummins ram last week and he has yet to let me forget it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving scott hendryx scott.hendryx.clothes@sbcglobal.net wrote in message it looks better in real life then it does in the photos but im no big fan of the latest dodge body styles either. the advantage of the twin turbos is faster spool-up which translates into much less lag for the amount of boost. i dont know if they are the variable geometry type or not. two more things on a ford to fu*king fall off. -- ------moparman------ ---signature pending yet another assine comment by mianderson--- .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote i didnt use it as fact. i used it as a valid point of reference. valid point no about.com was just someones opinion that you agreed with and nothing more. no more valid than anyone elses opinion. .

From : nathan in montana

my posts have nothing to do with the fact that youre trusted about.com article is about as credible as the tightly coiled piles dogs leave on your lawn. your posts have nothing to do with anything acutally. you throw out some empty statements and when called on them you throw out insults in hopes of hiding your lack of a valid response. ........now go ahead and call me a mean name again. if nothing else youre predictable. - -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : yabahoobs

on feb 21 1003 am nathan in montana montanajee...@aol.com wrote my posts have nothing to do with the fact that youre trusted about.com article is about as credible as the tightly coiled piles dogs leave on your lawn. your posts have nothing to do with anything acutally. you throw out some empty statements and when called on them you throw out insults in hopes of hiding your lack of a valid response. .......now go ahead and call me a mean name again. if nothing else youre predictable. - -- nathan in montanahttp//concealedcarryforum.comhttp//1911talk.comhttp//glockcarry.com nice duck again. .

From : yabahoobs

on feb 21 1003 am nathan in montana montanajee...@aol.com wrote my posts have nothing to do with the fact that youre trusted about.com article is about as credible as the tightly coiled piles dogs leave on your lawn. your posts have nothing to do with anything acutally. you throw out some empty statements and when called on them you throw out insults in hopes of hiding your lack of a valid response. .......now go ahead and call me a mean name again. if nothing else youre predictable. - -- nathan in montanahttp//concealedcarryforum.comhttp//1911talk.comhttp//glockcarry.com no more empty than using some obsure about.com article as fact. you really just dont get it. oh well. .

From : nathan in montana

my own experiences and discussions with mormon friends are more valid how do you know what their beliefs are or their agenda is perhaps theyre polygamist sympathizers. heck if thats all it takes to get a definitive answer ill just ask billy bob down the street. unsubstantiated editorial from about.com. once again. have you any valid reason to question the credibility of about.com -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

whats different about the mormons is that they we are a religious group. the corporation is for dealing with the government. but overall were about religion. were also right. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. so far one about.com cited article to back up over 600 posts of garbage. all churches are corporate entities most notably the mormon church. suck on it. .

From : stormin mormon

well all thats left is to call nate a nazi and then well have a real usenet conversation going. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. lol...nice duck on my point nate. ill consider that youre white flag. what are you 6 my posts have nothing to do with the fact that youre trusted about.com article is about as credible as the tightly coiled piles dogs leave on your lawn. .

From : yabahoobs

on feb 20 521 pm miles n...@nopers.com wrote stormin mormon wrote doesnt change that it sounds anti-mormon. just cause you have ten dogs doesnt change that bark that sounds like a dobie. i see. disagreeing with your views means im anti-mormon. good grief!! cue the predictable reply theres no logical reason for you to disagree so you must be anti-mormonite yawn... so far one about.com cited article to back up over 600 posts of garbage. all churches are corporate entities most notably the mormon church. suck on it. .

From : yabahoobs

on feb 20 1137 pm nathan in montana montanajee...@aol.com wrote its true cuz its on the internet. coming from someone who has added nothing to substantiate anything hes said. -- nathan in montanahttp//concealedcarryforum.comhttp//1911talk.comhttp//glockcarry.com lol...nice duck on my point nate. ill consider that youre white flag. what are you 6 my posts have nothing to do with the fact that youre trusted about.com article is about as credible as the tightly coiled piles dogs leave on your lawn. .

From : nathan in montana

so tell us what credibility an editorialist on about.com has again miles ive asked you if youve anything to substantiate reasonably your belief that they are not credible. im not even trying to prove you wrong here miles i just hope to determine if there is a valid reason to question their objectivity or credibility. there are countless other sources to substantiate my position evidenced by any brief internet search engine but if your intention is to blindly dismiss any link you disagree with for anything less than a valid reason it isnt worth the effort to do the searching. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com youve already stated the church discipline is a private matter. so how would this individual know interesting that such information is lacking from the story. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote again miles ive asked you if youve anything to substantiate reasonably your belief that they are not credible. my own experiences and discussions with mormon friends are more valid to me than some guy on the internet posting an unsubstantiated editorial from about.com. im not trying to prove anything. i disagree with you and i havent written an article on about.com to post for you which would then seemingly become credible. .

From : Annonymous

on wed 21 feb 2007 182927 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote nathan in montana wrote how do you know what their beliefs are or their agenda is perhaps theyre polygamist sympathizers. nah. since they disagree with you they must have an anti-mormon agenda. one and all.............i just want you all to know that you gotta be close to a record with this thread. i go away for a weekend and when i return i get over 200 new posts in this thread. dudes.........that is impressive! i saw a post count a while back before i left and with this 200+ you all gotta be close to a record. my hats off to all of you..........you are the best! .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote i didnt use it as fact. i used it as a valid point of reference. valid point no about.com was just someones opinion that you agreed with and nothing more. no more valid than anyone elses opinion. about.com is not a blog. it is a publication from a a valid source of albeit a liberal source. you attempt to downplay it but you have provided nothing to make anyone question the credibility of about.com. nothing. all i have asked of you is one single example of why about.com has no credibility and you cannot provide it. .......this is sorta fun but please dont run off. ill actually do a real internet search before long. it will be fun to watch you spin. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote how do you know what their beliefs are or their agenda is perhaps theyre polygamist sympathizers. nah. since they disagree with you they must have an anti-mormon agenda. i cant speak for them.....but they are giving you an opinion. about.com is an official publication from a valid source making their statements worth far more than some guy on the internet claiming to know billy bobs sister who says about.com is wrong. - -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote about.com is not a blog. it is a publication from a a valid source of albeit a liberal source. the article you posted was one persons opinion and nothing more. just because it is shown on about.com does not mean it is any more or less truthful than anyone elses opinion. you seem to be the type of person that assumes anything printed by a source must be the truth. is everything printed by the the truth especially when it is editorial commentary .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote i cant speak for them.....but they are giving you an opinion. about.com is an official publication from a valid source making their statements worth far more youve lost it nate!! just because some editorialist gets his story printed does not make it any more truthful. you seem to be the type of person who buys whatever the says just because they said it. im not. .

From : yabahoobs

on feb 22 617 am miles n...@nopers.com wrote nathan in montana wrote about.com is not a blog. it is a publication from a a valid source of albeit a liberal source. the article you posted was one persons opinion and nothing more. just because it is shown on about.com does not mean it is any more or less truthful than anyone elses opinion. you seem to be the type of person that assumes anything printed by a source must be the truth. is everything printed by the the truth especially when it is editorial commentary i pointed this out to nate almost a week ago...obviously he didnt get the hint. but it cant hurt to repeat you see nate stuff isnt just by default absolute truth if its on the ol inner-net .

From : stormin mormon

nate has provided more evidence in this thread than even myself. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. on feb 21 1003 am nathan in montana montanajee...@aol.com wrote my posts have nothing to do with the fact that youre trusted about.com article is about as credible as the tightly coiled piles dogs leave on your lawn. your posts have nothing to do with anything acutally. you throw out some empty statements and when called on them you throw out insults in hopes of hiding your lack of a valid response. .......now go ahead and call me a mean name again. if nothing else youre predictable. - -- nathan in montanahttp//concealedcarryforum.comhttp//1911talk.comhttp//gl ockcarry.com no more empty than using some obsure about.com article as fact. you really just dont get it. oh well. .

From : stormin mormon

oh youre so full of nonsense. were the best but that doesnt mean you have to flatter us. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nah. since they disagree with you they must have an anti-mormon agenda. one and all.............i just want you all to know that you gotta be close to a record with this thread. i go away for a weekend and when i return i get over 200 new posts in this thread. dudes.........that is impressive! i saw a post count a while back before i left and with this 200+ you all gotta be close to a record. my hats off to all of you..........you are the best! .

From : stormin mormon

youre right blogs tend to be massive agenda. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote i didnt use it as fact. i used it as a valid point of reference. valid point no about.com was just someones opinion that you agreed with and nothing more. no more valid than anyone elses opinion. about.com is not a blog. it is a publication from a a valid source of albeit a liberal source. you attempt to downplay it but you have provided nothing to make anyone question the credibility of about.com. nothing. all i have asked of you is one single example of why about.com has no credibility and you cannot provide it. ......this is sorta fun but please dont run off. ill actually do a real internet search before long. it will be fun to watch you spin. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

and who knows if billy bobbs sister is telling the truth -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote how do you know what their beliefs are or their agenda is perhaps theyre polygamist sympathizers. nah. since they disagree with you they must have an anti-mormon agenda. i cant speak for them.....but they are giving you an opinion. about.com is an official publication from a valid source making their statements worth far more than some guy on the internet claiming to know billy bobs sister who says about.com is wrong. - -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

beekeep . 222 331022 k8-dnxfco5y7gulynz2dnuvzvshnz2d@bresnan.com nathan in montana wrote about.com is not a blog. it is a publication from a a valid source of albeit a liberal source. the article you posted was one persons opinion and nothing more. just because it is shown on about.com does not mean it is any more or less truthful than anyone elses opinion. you seem to be the type of person that assumes anything printed by a source must be the truth. is everything printed by the the truth especially when it is editorial commentary the article supports several other valid sources that say the same thing. its not an opinion it is accepted as factual. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote whats different about the mormons is that they we are a religious group. the corporation is for dealing with the government. but overall were about religion. were also right. if that were true then all organized religions would have the huge corporate infrastructure as the lds has. its about money. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote nate has provided more evidence in this thread than even myself. evidence ill take a wild guess and assume youre not a lawyer with your definition of evidence. .

From : stormin mormon

is that the best you can do im going to go cry. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote youre right. miles didnt provide evidence. neither have you. .

From : stormin mormon

yeah but he hurt my feelings. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. its true cuz its on the internet. coming from someone who has added nothing to substantiate anything hes said. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

well not exactly. opposing the lds church and spreading false teachings makes you an anti. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote doesnt change that it sounds anti-mormon. just cause you have ten dogs doesnt change that bark that sounds like a dobie. i see. disagreeing with your views means im anti-mormon. good grief!! .

From : stormin mormon

so who tells the then -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote hahahahahahaha church discipline is confidential. unless there is some compelling reason to go public. the church doesnt need to go public with it for an excommunication involving a polygamist family to end up on the nightly . .

From : stormin mormon

hmm. now dog coils well at least hes using some literary skills. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. my posts have nothing to do with the fact that youre trusted about.com article is about as credible as the tightly coiled piles dogs leave on your lawn. your posts have nothing to do with anything acutally. you throw out some empty statements and when called on them you throw out insults in hopes of hiding your lack of a valid response. .......now go ahead and call me a mean name again. if nothing else youre predictable. - -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

you could always write one you know. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote again miles ive asked you if youve anything to substantiate reasonably your belief that they are not credible. my own experiences and discussions with mormon friends are more valid to me than some guy on the internet posting an unsubstantiated editorial from about.com. im not trying to prove anything. i disagree with you and i havent written an article on about.com to post for you which would then seemingly become credible. .

From : stormin mormon

ive found that people who leave the lds church start to sound a lot alike after awhile. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. my own experiences and discussions with mormon friends are more valid how do you know what their beliefs are or their agenda is perhaps theyre polygamist sympathizers. heck if thats all it takes to get a definitive answer ill just ask billy bob down the street. unsubstantiated editorial from about.com. once again. have you any valid reason to question the credibility of about.com -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

i thought the about article was more evidence than youve offered. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote i didnt use it as fact. i used it as a valid point of reference. valid point no about.com was just someones opinion that you agreed with and nothing more. no more valid than anyone elses opinion. .

From : stormin mormon

since they oppose lds and teach lies which are hurtful. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote how do you know what their beliefs are or their agenda is perhaps theyre polygamist sympathizers. nah. since they disagree with you they must have an anti-mormon agenda. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote so who tells the then are you that naive to believe the only stories about what the lds does comes from the top inside .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote since they oppose lds and teach lies which are hurtful. awww...crying cuz youre hurt huh .

From : nathan in montana

nathan in montana wrote i cant speak for them.....but they are giving you an opinion. about.com is an official publication from a valid source making their statements worth far more youve lost it nate!! just because some editorialist gets his story printed does not make it any more truthful. you seem to be the type of person who buys whatever the says just because they said it. im not. oh yeah thats it. rolling eyes .....im gonna do a real search this weekend. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

youd rather believe your aunt myrtles hair dressser -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote i cant speak for them.....but they are giving you an opinion. about.com is an official publication from a valid source making their statements worth far more youve lost it nate!! just because some editorialist gets his story printed does not make it any more truthful. you seem to be the type of person who buys whatever the says just because they said it. im not. .

From : stormin mormon

ah but its a credible source. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. on feb 22 617 am miles n...@nopers.com wrote nathan in montana wrote about.com is not a blog. it is a publication from a a valid source of albeit a liberal source. the article you posted was one persons opinion and nothing more. just because it is shown on about.com does not mean it is any more or less truthful than anyone elses opinion. you seem to be the type of person that assumes anything printed by a source must be the truth. is everything printed by the the truth especially when it is editorial commentary i pointed this out to nate almost a week ago...obviously he didnt get the hint. but it cant hurt to repeat you see nate stuff isnt just by default absolute truth if its on the ol inner-net .

From : stormin mormon

yep nothing like having the truth. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. . but overall were about religion. were also right. bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahaahhahaha.... !!!! .

From : stormin mormon

i think its about success and using money to do good. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote whats different about the mormons is that they we are a religious group. the corporation is for dealing with the government. but overall were about religion. were also right. if that were true then all organized religions would have the huge corporate infrastructure as the lds has. its about money. .

From : stormin mormon

whereas the part of the second part to wit stormin mormon has taken this insturment to respond to the party of the first part to wit miles and using this aforesaid insturment to contend the following rejoinder to the said inquiry of previous insturment nope. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote nate has provided more evidence in this thread than even myself. evidence ill take a wild guess and assume youre not a lawyer with your definition of evidence. .

From : stormin mormon

is it only jews who answer a question with a question -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote so who tells the then are you that naive to believe the only stories about what the lds does comes from the top inside .

From : stormin mormon

yep havnt cried this much since.... the last time. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote since they oppose lds and teach lies which are hurtful. awww...crying cuz youre hurt huh .

From : yabahoobs

the article supports several other valid sources that say the same thing. its not an opinion it is accepted as factual. ludicrous. get help brother nate. .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote the article supports several other valid sources that say the same thing. its not an opinion it is accepted as factual. what is a valid source to you any media source to me it is valid only if it gives supporting evidence. your sources did not. they stated a persons opinion that is accepted by you and whomever else believes the same way. an opinion is not fact. .

From : stormin mormon

well hes not lds so lets not call him brother nate. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. the article supports several other valid sources that say the same thing. its not an opinion it is accepted as factual. ludicrous. get help brother nate. .

From : tbone

stormin mormon wrote ah but its a credible source. define credible. because its the nytimes owned website good grief. as much as i didnt want to get into this yes miles the n.y. times has a reputation to uphold so i would consider it a credible site. but please give us your definition of credible as it seems the only things you consider credible are what agrees with your thoughts at the time. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : stormin mormon

its my understanding that the lds has no paid clergy. we do however have paid custodians. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote i think its about success and using money to do good. and make quite a few church leaders very wealthy. .

From : stormin mormon

oy! he deferred! -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote is it only jews who answer a question with a question the basis of your question made a basic assumption to which i challenged. to answer your above question id have to defer that to someone of the jewish faith if you know any. .

From : stormin mormon

works better than quoting aunt myrtles best freind down at the hair dresser. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote the article supports several other valid sources that say the same thing. its not an opinion it is accepted as factual. what is a valid source to you any media source to me it is valid only if it gives supporting evidence. your sources did not. they stated a persons opinion that is accepted by you and whomever else believes the same way. an opinion is not fact. .

From : stormin mormon

miles quotes friends he knew. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote ah but its a credible source. define credible. because its the nytimes owned website good grief. as much as i didnt want to get into this yes miles the n.y. times has a reputation to uphold so i would consider it a credible site. but please give us your definition of credible as it seems the only things you consider credible are what agrees with your thoughts at the time. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

gordon hudson hostroute@gmail.com wrote the bhp varies depending how they set it up. the one in my slk350 is 285 bhp. its all in the cam timing. german local cars are timed for higher rpm torque giving higher hp which is best at high speeds on the autobahn. na cars are setup for best operation at the slower road speeds here. recent vvt advances give advantages at both low and high rpm. the reason american cars use so much more petrol is that they run them inefficiently like we used to back in the 80s. because fuel prices in europe got so high all the manufacturers had to look at using the engines more efficiently. i dont find na cars use more fuel than those i rent in the uk. my recent experience in england was a 2006 escort sw stick shift that gave 36 mpg at 90% highway going 60 mph. im not sure what 4 cyl engine was in that escort but i suspect 1.6l. a few years ago we got 40 mpg with an escort hb on the same driving. my wifes 2001 sebring v6 2.7l 200 hp auto gives 35mpg and my 1995 concord 3.3l 165hp auto gives 34mpg on 90% highway at 60 mph. i city driving the escort would give the best mileage followed by the sebring then the concord. that escort sw at 60 mph was 3000 rpm my concord at 1900 rpm and my wifes sebring at 2200 rpm. of course you should know which car gives the nicest quietest ride; the concord of course plus the concord can easily out handle the other two. .

From : miles

wrote i have a fwd mini van and a rwd car and the car is way better in the snow a van isnt a car they handle poorly compared to a car whether fwd or rwd. i once owned a rwd gmc long van i made into a camper. even with the camper weight in the rear it was a sad joke in snow. even with top notch snow tires it was a struggle getting up snowy hills that my concord just walks up. how many times i had to back down a hill and take another run at it very dangerous. .

From : miles

tbone tbonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote her fwd intrepid can run circles around me in bad conditions and got her home in snow conditions that had most rwd and even some 4wd vehicles in ditches and on the side of the road. my oh my your intrepid is as good in snow as my concord. since chryslers lh cars are so good in slippery conditions perhaps we should keep them forever and not get one of those other fwd vehicles many here say are so poor in slippery conditions .

From : tbone

kids around etc... front wheel drive is probably better cheers . 222 331219 45e223c8$0$28181$4c368faf@roadrunner.com tbone wrote as much as i didnt want to get into this yes miles the n.y. times has a reputation to uphold so i would consider it a credible site. i asked whether everything printed in the nytimes and its owned outlets such as about.com had to be true because they said it was yes all media outlets have a reputation they want to create and maintain. that has nothing to do with being truthful or not. you are kidding right how can it uphold its reputation if it doesnt monitor what it posts for accuracy. dies that mean that its perfect of course not and some lies may be posted but that is because they were either missed or not known to be lies. fox also has a reputation to uphold so its a credible source as well right for the most part yes they are credible but they are heavily politically right wing biased and if you take that into account when you read it it is fairly accurate in what it says. you just have to look elsewhere for what is left out. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote for the most part yes they are credible but they are heavily politically right wing biased and if you take that into account when you read it it is fairly accurate in what it says. you just have to look elsewhere for what is left out. somewhat but then you have to look at fox for whats left out on cbs or the nytimes which are both heavily left biased. weve been through this before and the only tv you seem to feel is biased is fox and that in itself shows your own bias. all media is self serving towards their own bias like it or not. .

From : stormin mormon

on mon 26 feb 2007 083314 -0600 joe@aol wrote can anyone tell me what size socket fits the oil pressure sending unit on a 94 dakota 3.9 we are guessing it is a 26mm deep but no one has one to try. i hate to buy the wrong size. thanks i cant tell if the old one is the same as the new one or i would buy one to fit the new. we tried a 1 too small and 1 1/6 too big on the one in there. is there a special socket needed take the new unit and buy what fits it a cresentwrench caliper reading will give you the an accuate enough size reading from the old unit to the new. .

From : stormin mormon

roy roy@home.net wrote here it is the end of feb. and we get our first truly plowable storm a whole 4 inches! shut up denny and i dont have a plow. going to have to get one of my friends over here. i tried to move the charger out of the garage just for the hell of it. who but dc would make a 425hp car without ls posi or something. the traction control works to a point but... roy roy sounds like you have a real problem there. ;- id happily trade you my dakota 4x4 for your charger. even tho im 1.5 miles off lake michigan and we just got a 14 dumping thanks your always trying to help a friend.g sold my 04 2500 4x4 earl dec. and have been real lucky so far. i sold the truck at the right time now the 4x4 market is on its ass around here. there are pick ups with plows for sale everywhere. .

From : stormin mormon

id rather watch fox than some of the left liberal stuff that goes over the airwaves. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. tbone wrote as much as i didnt want to get into this yes miles the n.y. times has a reputation to uphold so i would consider it a credible site. i asked whether everything printed in the nytimes and its owned outlets such as about.com had to be true because they said it was yes all media outlets have a reputation they want to create and maintain. that has nothing to do with being truthful or not. fox also has a reputation to uphold so its a credible source as well right .

From : miles

tbone wrote lol well if you would rather live your life as a mushroom so be it. thats because liberals dont see the bias in the liberal media. .

From : tbone

tetraethylleadremovethis@yahoo.com brent p wrote and somehow you think this due to some fwd magic.... heres a hint it wasnt. the rear of your fwd lebaron is even more lightly loaded and thusly more prone to locking before the front wheels than that of a rwd car. the difference is proportioning in whatever far older vehicle that you expected to have the ass swing around with the slightest touch of the brakes in and has nothing to do with which end is the drive wheels. all my fwd cars including rentals have continued straight ahead when the wheels locked on braking. so has every car ive driven made after 1980. now with abs locking is history. because the abs eliminates the premature locking of the rear wheels. i cant say that about my past rwd cars and ive seen trucks do a 180 more than once. like i stated before you compare a modern fwd car to old rwd technology on a problem has that has nothing to do with which wheels are driven other than the weight distribution and perhaps a slight engine braking contribution if you dont put the clutch in there from. you just dont want to accept facts too bad your brain is locked in reverse. its not my fault you are too stupid to understand that the rear brakes locking up first has *nothing* to do with which wheels are driven but only with the braking system of the car and its weight distribution. if you knew anything about the physics of the problem its the fwd car that should lock up its rears first if anything because of a tendency towards a more front biased weight distribution. .

From : stormin mormon

what! you calling me a mushroom cause i watch fox -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. lol well if you would rather live your life as a mushroom so be it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving stormin mormon cayoung61-&spamblock*-@hotmail.com wrote in message id rather watch fox than some of the left liberal stuff that goes over the airwaves. .

From : stormin mormon

long as no one finds out i used to be a ditto head. until el rushbo lost his fire about the time he got into oxy. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote id rather watch fox than some of the left liberal stuff that goes over the airwaves. same here but i do watch several. they all have their pluses and minues. .

From : stormin mormon

i was aware of deseret and i do subscribe to one of their papers. but not known about the others. do you have any proof of this such as an about dot com web site giving the data -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote which corporations do you think the lds church owns deseret for starters the main source for utah. they also own bonneville international which has businesses in financial communications satellite and more. the whole list is rather large and includes radio stations banks hotels restaurants etc. .

From : stormin mormon

i confuse pretty easy. now what were we talking about -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote so now its my fault huh i never blamed you. you asked a question regarding jews. i replied to go ask one if you need an answer. that confuses you .

From : stormin mormon

what the media is biassed shiver me timbers! i believe everyone has a bias its just a question of identifying it. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. tbone wrote lol well if you would rather live your life as a mushroom so be it. thats because liberals dont see the bias in the liberal media. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote i was aware of deseret and i do subscribe to one of their papers. but not known about the others. do you have any proof of this such as an about dot com web site giving the data bonneville is the larger conglomerate that owns deseret. http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/deseretmanagementcorporation zions security is a large financial corporation owned by lds. http//www.zsc.com/about.htm there are numerous other businesses owned by the lds. is there another church that owns so many corporations around the world .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote what the media is biassed shiver me timbers! yep but theres at least one person here that thinks only fox is blatantly biased while cnn cbs abc nbc etc. are just slightly biased at times. .

From : yabahoobs

on feb 27 1022 pm miles n...@nopers.com wrote stormin mormon wrote what the media is biassed shiver me timbers! yep but theres at least one person here that thinks only fox is blatantly biased while cnn cbs abc nbc etc. are just slightly biased at times. theyre all biased. fox is just so arrogant and blatant about it. and when you think about it the cable audience is already so polarized. fox broadcasts a biased that their core viewers want to see. that said i will concede matching liberal bias in other outlets such as the ones mentioned. for me it takes more time and effort but you can definatly spot it. .

From : miles

yabahoobs wrote that said i will concede matching liberal bias in other outlets such as the ones mentioned. for me it takes more time and effort but you can definatly spot it. i think what one sees depends on their own personal bias. fox isnt any more biased than cbs and most others. often i see stories from both sides of an issue on fox where cbs failed in doing so. besides the right has fox and clear channel radio. the left has most everything else including major papers such as those published by nytimes theyre more than just ny and gannett. .

From : tbone

yea pretty much. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving what! you calling me a mushroom cause i watch fox -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. . lol well if you would rather live your life as a mushroom so be it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving stormin mormon cayoung61-&spamblock*-@hotmail.com wrote in message id rather watch fox than some of the left liberal stuff that goes over the airwaves. .

From : tbone

yabahoobs wrote that said i will concede matching liberal bias in other outlets such as the ones mentioned. for me it takes more time and effort but you can definatly spot it. i think what one sees depends on their own personal bias. on this we can agree. fox isnt any more biased than cbs and most others. while fox is not more biased than all it most certianly is more biased than most including cbs on many issues. often i see stories from both sides of an issue on fox where cbs failed in doing so. once again this is your bias talking. i also watch fox every know and then and as i said before while they do a good job of getting their facts in order they are also very good at hiding the side that they dont want you to see and are also very skilled at making it look like they are admitting to some problems that in reality they have no way to hide in order to look less biased than they really are. besides the right has fox and clear channel radio. the left has most everything else including major papers such as those published by nytimes theyre more than just ny and gannett. oh please miles do you know how silly this sounds. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote while fox is not more biased than all it most certianly is more biased than most including cbs on many issues. cbs is every bit as biased on many of the same issues that fox is biased on. theyre just on the opposite sides of the fence. once again this is your bias talking. i also watch fox every know and then and as i said before while they do a good job of getting their facts in order they are also very good at hiding the side that they dont want you to see and are also very skilled at making it look like they are admitting to some problems that in reality they have no way to hide in order to look less biased than they really are. and this is different than cbs how your bias clearly singles out fox when cbs is every bit as biased. cnn abc and nbc are all liberal biased but to a less degree than cbs. besides the right has fox and clear channel radio. the left has most everything else including major papers such as those published by nytimes theyre more than just ny and gannett. oh please miles do you know how silly this sounds. your bias refuses to see the bias...except on fox. do you know how silly you sound when you attempt to single out fox .

From : chris thompson

making progress.... mormon lies 700 messages - 25 authors k&n debate apr 23 2004 by *cbhvac* - 323 messages - 34 authors just say no to k&n! may 5 2001 by ***** - 646 messages - 32 authors k&n aug 4 2001 by cbhvac - 345 messages - 25 authors hmmm looks like we have a new champ. -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs. .

From : roy

on thu 1 mar 2007 104015 -0500 roy roy@home.net wrote on thu 1 mar 2007 003703 -0500 chris thompson kf4drr-nospam@alltel.net wrote making progress.... mormon lies 700 messages - 25 authors k&n debate apr 23 2004 by *cbhvac* - 323 messages - 34 authors just say no to k&n! may 5 2001 by ***** - 646 messages - 32 authors k&n aug 4 2001 by cbhvac - 345 messages - 25 authors hmmm looks like we have a new champ. now thats what im saying. where ya been reading. thats a good thing. just dont have alot of interest in picking on mormons or comparing which messed up station is worse or which screwed up political party is worse. yup it is the same bs time after time does get old quickly. something will come around eventually that i can wade in on pick a subject and start a thread.g .

From : Annonymous

on thu 1 mar 2007 003703 -0500 chris thompson kf4drr-nospam@alltel.net wrote making progress.... mormon lies 700 messages - 25 authors k&n debate apr 23 2004 by *cbhvac* - 323 messages - 34 authors just say no to k&n! may 5 2001 by ***** - 646 messages - 32 authors k&n aug 4 2001 by cbhvac - 345 messages - 25 authors hmmm looks like we have a new champ. now thats what im saying. .

From : roy

on thu 1 mar 2007 003703 -0500 chris thompson kf4drr-nospam@alltel.net wrote making progress.... mormon lies 700 messages - 25 authors k&n debate apr 23 2004 by *cbhvac* - 323 messages - 34 authors just say no to k&n! may 5 2001 by ***** - 646 messages - 32 authors k&n aug 4 2001 by cbhvac - 345 messages - 25 authors hmmm looks like we have a new champ. now thats what im saying. where ya been .

From : Annonymous

on thu 1 mar 2007 104015 -0500 roy roy@home.net wrote on thu 1 mar 2007 003703 -0500 chris thompson kf4drr-nospam@alltel.net wrote making progress.... mormon lies 700 messages - 25 authors k&n debate apr 23 2004 by *cbhvac* - 323 messages - 34 authors just say no to k&n! may 5 2001 by ***** - 646 messages - 32 authors k&n aug 4 2001 by cbhvac - 345 messages - 25 authors hmmm looks like we have a new champ. now thats what im saying. where ya been reading. just dont have alot of interest in picking on mormons or comparing which messed up station is worse or which screwed up political party is worse. something will come around eventually that i can wade in on .

From : stormin mormon

i havnt researched the church holdings. however i am sure there are no mormon polygamists in utah. or anywhere else. cause the church policy is to excommunicate them. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote i was aware of deseret and i do subscribe to one of their papers. but not known about the others. do you have any proof of this such as an about dot com web site giving the data bonneville is the larger conglomerate that owns deseret. http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/deseretmanagementcorporation zions security is a large financial corporation owned by lds. http//www.zsc.com/about.htm there are numerous other businesses owned by the lds. is there another church that owns so many corporations around the world .

From : stormin mormon

fox is the only one telling the truth. the rest are just left wing outlets for the democrat party. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote what the media is biassed shiver me timbers! yep but theres at least one person here that thinks only fox is blatantly biased while cnn cbs abc nbc etc. are just slightly biased at times. .

From : stormin mormon

fox biassed im surprised my computer didnt explode. thats such a mismatch of words. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. on feb 27 1022 pm miles n...@nopers.com wrote stormin mormon wrote what the media is biassed shiver me timbers! yep but theres at least one person here that thinks only fox is blatantly biased while cnn cbs abc nbc etc. are just slightly biased at times. theyre all biased. fox is just so arrogant and blatant about it. and when you think about it the cable audience is already so polarized. fox broadcasts a biased that their core viewers want to see. that said i will concede matching liberal bias in other outlets such as the ones mentioned. for me it takes more time and effort but you can definatly spot it. .

From : stormin mormon

at least the ny times web page isnt biassed. or is it -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. yabahoobs wrote that said i will concede matching liberal bias in other outlets such as the ones mentioned. for me it takes more time and effort but you can definatly spot it. i think what one sees depends on their own personal bias. fox isnt any more biased than cbs and most others. often i see stories from both sides of an issue on fox where cbs failed in doing so. besides the right has fox and clear channel radio. the left has most everything else including major papers such as those published by nytimes theyre more than just ny and gannett. .

From : stormin mormon

youre a double mushroom. // / / / / // /7 // / / / / 7 . -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. yea pretty much. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving stormin mormon cayoung61-&spamblock*-@hotmail.com wrote in message what! you calling me a mushroom cause i watch fox -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. . lol well if you would rather live your life as a mushroom so be it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving stormin mormon cayoung61-&spamblock*-@hotmail.com wrote in message id rather watch fox than some of the left liberal stuff that goes over the airwaves. .

From : stormin mormon

youre just saying that cause youre a racist. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. fox isnt any more biased than cbs and most others. while fox is not more biased than all it most certianly is more biased than most including cbs on many issues. .

From : stormin mormon

and i should accept the word of a man whose sleeves are too short -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. making progress.... mormon lies 700 messages - 25 authors k&n debate apr 23 2004 by *cbhvac* - 323 messages - 34 authors just say no to k&n! may 5 2001 by ***** - 646 messages - 32 authors k&n aug 4 2001 by cbhvac - 345 messages - 25 authors hmmm looks like we have a new champ. -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs. .

From : stormin mormon

nothing like polarizing subjects. especially when i know im right. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. making progress.... mormon lies 700 messages - 25 authors hmmm looks like we have a new champ. now thats what im saying. .

From : stormin mormon

pick your subject and ill be sure to find out why youre wrong. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. where ya been reading. just dont have alot of interest in picking on mormons or comparing which messed up station is worse or which screwed up political party is worse. something will come around eventually that i can wade in on .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote i havnt researched the church holdings. however i am sure there are no mormon polygamists in utah. or anywhere else. cause the church policy is to excommunicate them. the utahs state policy is to press charges against polygamists. however they dont enforce that policy any more than the church. a policy means nothing. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote at least the ny times web page isnt biassed. or is it the times has always been left wing biased. they make no secret of which candidates they support. .

From : tbone

lol yea that must be it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving youre just saying that cause youre a racist. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. . fox isnt any more biased than cbs and most others. while fox is not more biased than all it most certianly is more biased than most including cbs on many issues. .

From : chris thompson

and i should accept the word of a man whose sleeves are too short -- and that comment is suposed to mean what -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs. christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. . making progress.... mormon lies 700 messages - 25 authors k&n debate apr 23 2004 by *cbhvac* - 323 messages - 34 authors just say no to k&n! may 5 2001 by ***** - 646 messages - 32 authors k&n aug 4 2001 by cbhvac - 345 messages - 25 authors hmmm looks like we have a new champ. -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs. .

From : stormin mormon

yeah but my hairdresser says they prosecute. so there! -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote i havnt researched the church holdings. however i am sure there are no mormon polygamists in utah. or anywhere else. cause the church policy is to excommunicate them. the utahs state policy is to press charges against polygamists. however they dont enforce that policy any more than the church. a policy means nothing. .

From : stormin mormon

just cant trust anyone any more! -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote at least the ny times web page isnt biassed. or is it the times has always been left wing biased. they make no secret of which candidates they support. .

From : stormin mormon

either that or you dont like me cause im black. looks down well maybe thats not it. but ill think of something. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. lol yea that must be it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving stormin mormon cayoung61-&spamblock*-@hotmail.com wrote in message youre just saying that cause youre a racist. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. . fox isnt any more biased than cbs and most others. while fox is not more biased than all it most certianly is more biased than most including cbs on many issues. .

From : stormin mormon

it was either that or call him a bigot. i chose the most polite answer. you center poster you! -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon cayoung61-&spamblock*-@hotmail.com wrote in message and i should accept the word of a man whose sleeves are too short -- and that comment is suposed to mean what -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote yeah but my hairdresser says they prosecute. so there! you probably heard the discussion during your bikini wax treatment. .

From : miles

stormin mormon wrote either that or you dont like me cause im black. looks down well maybe thats not it. but ill think of something. youre black i thought you were green. im gonna have to rethink the entire discussion in this case. .

From : tbone

either that or you dont like me cause im black. looks down now how would i know what color you are or even really care for that matter. it looks like someone else you seems to have the racial issues. well maybe thats not it. but ill think of something. im sure that you will. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. . lol yea that must be it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving stormin mormon cayoung61-&spamblock*-@hotmail.com wrote in message youre just saying that cause youre a racist. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. . fox isnt any more biased than cbs and most others. while fox is not more biased than all it most certianly is more biased than most including cbs on many issues. .

From : nathan in montana

stormin mormon wrote ah but its a credible source. define credible. because its the nytimes owned website good grief. i think that for the sake of this discussion they can certainly be considered to be credible despite their anti-bush/conservative bias. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

fox also has a reputation to uphold so its a credible source as well right i consider fox to be the most credible of all. they are just as biased as the ny times although on the opposite end of the spectrum but their reporting is factual. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : nathan in montana

well nate you have repeatedly supported your claims because of a couple opinions listed on media websites and told me its accepted as fact because of such. that says it all! ill do some digging soon. - -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : miles

nathan in montana wrote i consider fox to be the most credible of all. they are just as biased as the ny times although on the opposite end of the spectrum but their reporting is factual. see if tbone thinks that way! .

From : tbone

nathan in montana wrote i consider fox to be the most credible of all. they are just as biased as the ny times although on the opposite end of the spectrum but their reporting is factual. see if tbone thinks that way! i already said that they get their facts straight and were credible for what they say but there bias does not have them showing the entire picture. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

my 99 has the teksid block that was cast in mexico. most of them were cast in brazil by tupy. i didnt know they assembled them in indiana. i wouldnt be surprised to hear the assembly was done in india. yep - columbus in. all the 5.9s and now 6.7s are assembled there in the cmep - cummins midrange engine plant. two guys garage did a tour of the plant last year... pretty cool to watch the engines get assembled. i love the automatic torque wrenches that torque down the head bolts all in one shot. i dont have one of those tools! .

From : tbone

tbone wrote no time has defined them as non-existing. only to a biased liberal. i guess that you have redefined biased liberal as anyone with a functioning brain and if that is the case then i must be a biased liberal. there is no way possible that the entirety of iraq can be searched. it is a very large land area. wmds do not take up much space. because only an idiot would ever believe that the entire country needed to be searched. he did not have complete control over the entire country and would not hide them in the areas that he did not. of course you would because otherwise you would have to admit that you helped elect an idiot and were wrong on your support for this moronic war. now there ya go tbone showing your true colors and reason for your views. pure political hatred and bias. what does political hatred have to do with anything sorry to burst your bubble miles but it truly was the conservative party that launched the political hatred machine. i dont have to either like or hate the man to see that this war was a mistake from the beginning and serves no valid purpose. you really do sound like an idiot. why should they have to search the entire country. do you really think that saddam would hide them so that he could not find them either or even have access to a few if needed huh saddam could have hidden them anywhere in the entire country. what are you smoking if you really believe that he would do that it is you that is smoking something. i am comparing nothing just using your flawed logic. iraq is not the usa and saddam is not going to document the destruction of weapons like the us does. youve said before that saddam complied with the un when in reality he did know such thing and youve just admitted to that effect. actually i said no such thing. i said that he got rid of the wmds but never said that he complied with any un demands when he did it. saddam never did comply with the uns demands to declare the whereabouts of all wmds. saddam never declared the wmds that went missing. never even mentioned them in his report to the un. i never said that he did. he probably destroyed them so that they could never be used against him and kept it quiet so he could still use the fear of them as a shield against attacks from others in his area. how exactly does he know unless he wrote the cordinates down or placed some type of locater with them and unless he burried them himself and alone others would also know where they are. what the hell are you talking about tbone youre saying it is impossible for someone to hide something because if they did they wouldnt know where they put it good grief!! if they are going to hide them so well that after years of searching we cannot find them that is exactly what im saying. people lose the remote to their tv in their own house. burying them iut somewhere in the desert would make them just about impossible to fing without written documentation and what reason would he have not to document it. lol how would he find them he would know where to go. iraq is a very large area. what part of that do you not comprehend how about what you just said. first you claim that iraq is a large area and then say that he would know exactly where to go. how exactly would he do that do you really think that he is going to depend on his memory for such a large area lol!!!! we have only searched a fraction of 1% of the total land area. really do you have factual data to back this up we never dug it all up and searched inside every single building in the country. not even close. lol and how many buildings exist that the public has no access to and if he hid them in a public building dont you think by know they would have turned up are you really this stupid or just desperate liberals are not dumb enough to think that the whole country would need to be searched to find them if they still existed. so if i hide something somewhere here in arizona you can come here and quickly find it what are you smoking and i would bet that if you just hid it without documenting where you put it that it would not be all that long before you would not be able to find it either unless you are now claiming that you have never lost anything. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol well if you would rather live your life as a mushroom so be it. thats because liberals dont see the bias in the liberal media. or that hard right biased like yourself see a left bias in everything that is not hard right. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : stormin mormon

tbone you think that way -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nathan in montana wrote i consider fox to be the most credible of all. they are just as biased as the ny times although on the opposite end of the spectrum but their reporting is factual. see if tbone thinks that way! .

From : tbone

tbone wrote while fox is not more biased than all it most certianly is more biased than most including cbs on many issues. cbs is every bit as biased on many of the same issues that fox is biased on. theyre just on the opposite sides of the fence. you must be talking about cbs world and while they are more to the left than fox so is just about everything else but that does not make them the opposit. once again this is your bias talking. i also watch fox every know and then and as i said before while they do a good job of getting their facts in order they are also very good at hiding the side that they dont want you to see and are also very skilled at making it look like they are admitting to some problems that in reality they have no way to hide in order to look less biased than they really are. and this is different than cbs how your bias clearly singles out fox when cbs is every bit as biased. cnn abc and nbc are all liberal biased but to a less degree than cbs. now this is just your bias talking as in your eyes anything left of fox is liberal biased. besides the right has fox and clear channel radio. the left has most everything else including major papers such as t

From : tbone

nytimes theyre more than just ny and gannett. oh please miles do you know how silly this sounds. your bias refuses to see the bias...except on fox. do you know how silly you sound when you attempt to single out fox it makes much more sense to single out as being heavily biased then it does to claim everyone else are the biased ones. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving . 222 331781 45f06fa1$0$8917$4c368faf@roadrunner.com tbone wrote i already said that they get their facts straight and were credible for what they say but there bias does not have them showing the entire picture. more so than cbs or cnn. this is your hard right wing bias speaking now. heck foxs #1 host is not a conservative. lol who are you talking about now cbs is heavily left wing biased whether you see it or not. they are probably more to the left than others but nowhere near as bad a fox. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote you really do make me laugh miles. you are so biased that you simply cannot see the forest thru the trees. lesse see here tbone. im biased because i see the bias from the media on both sides while you see it only on one go figure. lol no miles you dont. you concede to fox being biased to the right because it is a known fact and most conservatives admit to that much but then you say that everyone else is as heavily biased to the left which is just idiotic because if that were the case the republicans would never win any elections. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : stormin mormon

what does the under hood sticker show it can come as a 5.2 or a 5.9 the emissions label whoever did this put a hood sticker from a 2000 which says the engine is 4.7l. this was enough to fool the smog tech as i passed the smog test here in california. the test was performed as if the truck was a 2000 4.7l rather than a 5.2l 1998. i found out about this not being a 2000 when i was involved in an accident. repair parts were ordered based on the vin and nothing fit. after trial and error and looking in catalogs the shop determined the front-end anyway was a 98. .

From : stormin mormon

and why would they lie -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote ah but its a credible source. define credible. because its the nytimes owned website good grief. i think that for the sake of this discussion they can certainly be considered to be credible despite their anti-bush/conservative bias. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

one of the things i find different. conservatives deal in facts liberals deal in feelings. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. fox also has a reputation to uphold so its a credible source as well right i consider fox to be the most credible of all. they are just as biased as the ny times although on the opposite end of the spectrum but their reporting is factual. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : tbone

im glad that you agree. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving oh that makes sense. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. . nathan in montana wrote i consider fox to be the most credible of all. they are just as biased as the ny times although on the opposite end of the spectrum but their reporting is factual. see if tbone thinks that way! i already said that they get their facts straight and were credible for what they say but there bias does not have them showing the entire picture. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

if only that were true. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving one of the things i find different. conservatives deal in facts liberals deal in feelings. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. . fox also has a reputation to uphold so its a credible source as well right i consider fox to be the most credible of all. they are just as biased as the ny times although on the opposite end of the spectrum but their reporting is factual. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : tbone

tbone wrote lesse see here tbone. im biased because i see the bias from the media on both sides while you see it only on one go figure. lol no miles you dont. you concede to fox being biased to the right because it is a known fact and most conservatives admit to that much but then you say that everyone else is as heavily biased to the left which is just idiotic because if that were the case the republicans would never win any elections. youre just full of it tonight arent ya cbs is every bit as biased as fox. however at least fox does often show both sides of a story. cbs only shows one. once again your bias just screams out. the only times that fox shows both side of the story fully is when not doing it will damage their credibility to even the moderate right wingers. as for cbs world i really dont watch it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote lesse see here tbone. im biased because i see the bias from the media on both sides while you see it only on one go figure. lol no miles you dont. you concede to fox being biased to the right because it is a known fact and most conservatives admit to that much but then you say that everyone else is as heavily biased to the left which is just idiotic because if that were the case the republicans would never win any elections. youre just full of it tonight arent ya cbs is every bit as biased as fox. however at least fox does often show both sides of a story. cbs only shows one. .

From : miles

tbone wrote true most of them are just a greedy bunch of pricks using the right wing desire for smaller gubberment and reduction in regulations to further fuck the people. so tell us all about the democrats who really understand and feel for the poor working class folk. maybe you can explain how caring and understanding john edwards is with his massive mansion with a 15 car garage. perhaps you can tell us about how in tune with the poor folk al gore is with his use of excess greed. kerry clinton ya theyre not greedy at all and really in tune with the average american citizen. dang liberal hatred and bias. .

From : Annonymous

on thu 08 mar 2007 200840 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote tbone wrote true most of them are just a greedy bunch of pricks using the right wing desire for smaller gubberment and reduction in regulations to further fuck the people. where do you come up with this shit are you a commercial do you have even one original thought tom how about a fucking idea from you you know what an idea is dont you something you thought of not some stupid shit you read some where in your comic books or funny pages. so tell us all about the democrats who really understand and feel for the poor working class folk. maybe you can explain how caring and understanding john edwards is with his massive mansion with a 15 car garage. perhaps you can tell us about how in tune with the poor folk al gore is with his use of excess greed. kerry clinton ya theyre not greedy at all and really in tune with the average american citizen. dang liberal hatred and bias. .

From : miles

tbone wrote lol who cares about reminants and if what you way is true you should be able to find evidence of every model t ever build. dont worry ill wait while you look. now there lies the issue with you. you have no interest in finding proof of weapons destruction. we cant find the weapons nor any evidence they were destroyed. yet youre ok with that. must be because that supports your political views and thats all its about. no you are under the delusion that he would hide a weapon like some secret treasure rendering it useless. why would anyone hide something if it were so simple for someone else to find why bother i dont hate the man. i dont even know him but he has not made all that many good decisions during his presidency. name something bush did that you agree with if you cant then it means youre so full of hatred youre against anything to do with bush or you are not politically educated and instead only know about the liberal headline . . 222 331844 wv4ih.91$tk5.72@fe13.lga theguy@whatever.net wrote geez. now you sound like tom. for crying out loud cant any of you stop the insanity you guys are so into fucking labels that you cant see what is in front of your fucking faces. labels oh yes we all need to be alike on even footing in a politically correct world. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote they are probably more to the left than others but nowhere near as bad a fox. thats just your left wing bias talking. sorry miles but you have shown your hard right bias far more than i have to the left. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : stormin mormon

yeah no where near as bad as fox is a lefty talking. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. tbone wrote they are probably more to the left than others but nowhere near as bad a fox. thats just your left wing bias talking. .

From : stormin mormon

oh gee. just cause its not hard right doesnt mean its hard left.... -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. tbone wrote lol well if you would rather live your life as a mushroom so be it. thats because liberals dont see the bias in the liberal media. or that hard right biased like yourself see a left bias in everything that is not hard right. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : stormin mormon

i suspect the entire media is moving left. the whole kit and kaboodle. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. tbone wrote i already said that they get their facts straight and were credible for what they say but there bias does not have them showing the entire picture. more so than cbs or cnn. this is your hard right wing bias speaking now. heck foxs #1 host is not a conservative. lol who are you talking about now cbs is heavily left wing biased whether you see it or not. they are probably more to the left than others but nowhere near as bad a fox. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : stormin mormon

acknowledging sense doesnt mean agreeing --- a lot of things make sense but i dont agree with them. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. im glad that you agree. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving stormin mormon cayoung61-&spamblock*-@hotmail.com wrote in message oh that makes sense. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. . nathan in montana wrote i consider fox to be the most credible of all. they are just as biased as the ny times although on the opposite end of the spectrum but their reporting is factual. see if tbone thinks that way! i already said that they get their facts straight and were credible for what they say but there bias does not have them showing the entire picture. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : stormin mormon

thats what ive found. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. if only that were true. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving stormin mormon cayoung61-&spamblock*-@hotmail.com wrote in message one of the things i find different. conservatives deal in facts liberals deal in feelings. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. . fox also has a reputation to uphold so its a credible source as well right i consider fox to be the most credible of all. they are just as biased as the ny times although on the opposite end of the spectrum but their reporting is factual. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : stormin mormon

liberals tend to scream things like save the baby seals. conservatives say things like the population of baby seals is up 15% this year. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. stormin mormon wrote one of the things i find different. conservatives deal in facts liberals deal in feelings. thats very true. liberals make decisions from emotions. often its long term decisions based on quick emotional reactions rather than rationality. .

From : stormin mormon

as a mormon im offended by your crude language. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. thats very true. liberals make decisions from emotions. often its long term decisions based on quick emotional reactions rather than rationality. geez. now you sound like tom. for crying out loud cant any of you stop the insanity you guys are so into fucking labels that you cant see what is in front of your fucking faces. .

From : stormin mormon

nunya wrote actually holding the brakes down while in reverse will spin the adjusters also. how can that possibly work -- ken .

From : stormin mormon

top ten signs that youre a christian 10- you vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of your god. 9- you feel insulted and dehumanized when scientists say that people evolved from lesser life forms but you have no problem with the biblical claim that we were created from dirt. 8- you laugh at polytheists but you have no problem believing in a trinity god. 7- your face turns purple when you hear of the atrocities attributed to allah but you dont even flinch when hearing about how god/jehovah slaughtered all the babies of egypt in exodus and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in joshua -- including women children and animals! 6- you laugh at hindu beliefs that deify humans and greek claims about gods sleeping with women but you have no problem believing that the holy spirit impregnated mary who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed came back to life and then ascended into the sky. 5- you are willing to spend your life looking for little loop-holes in the scientifically established age of the earth 4.55 billion years but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by pre-historic tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that the earth is a couple of generations old. 4- you believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects -- will spend eternity in an infinite hell of suffering. and yet you consider your religion the most tolerant and loving. 3- while modern science history geology biology and physics have failed to convince you otherwise some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in tongues may be all the evidence you need. 2- you define 0.01% as a high success rate when it comes to answered prayers. you consider that to be evidence that prayer works. and you think that the remaining 99.99% failure was simply the will of god. 1- you actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the bible christianity and church history -- but still call yourself a christian. .

From : stormin mormon

from http//www.ctyme.com/bwash/bwash.htm#d how revivalist preachers work if youd like to see a revivalist preacher at work there are probably several in your city. go to the church or tent early and sit in the rear about three-quarters of the way back. most likely repetitive music will be played while the people come in for the service. a repetitive beat ideally ranging from 45 to 72 beats per minute a rhythm close to the beat of the human heart is very hypnotic and can generate an eyes-open altered state of consciousness in a very high percentage of people. and once you are in an alpha state you are at least 25 times as suggestible as you would be in full beta consciousness. the music is probably the same for every service or incorporates the same beat and many of the people will go into an altered state almost immediately upon entering the sanctuary. subconsciously they recall their state of mind from previous services and respond according to the post-hypnotic programming. watch the people waiting for the service to begin. many will exhibit external signs of trance--body relaxation and slightly dilated eyes. often they begin swaying back and forth with their hands in the air while sitting in their chairs. next the assistant pastor will probably come out. he usually speaks with a pretty good voice roll. the voice roll technique a voice roll is a patterned paced style used by hypnotists when inducing a trance. it is also used by many lawyers several of whom are highly trained hypnotists when they desire to entrench a point firmly in the minds of the jurors. a voice roll can sound as if the speaker were talking to the beat of a metronome or it may sound as though he were emphasizing every word in a monotonous patterned style. the words will usually be delivered at the rate of 45 to 60 beats per minute maximizing the hypnotic effect. the build-up process inducing altered states now the assistant pastor begins the build-up process. he induces an altered state of consciousness and/or begins to generate the excitement and the expectations of the audience. next a group of young women in sweet and pure chiffon dresses might come out to sing a song. gospel songs are great for building excitement and involvement. in the middle of the song one of the girls might be smitten by the spirit and fall down or react as if possessed by the holy spirit. this very effectively increases the intensity in the room. at this point hypnosis and conversion tactics are being mixed. and the result is the audiences attention span is now totally focused upon the communication while the environment becomes more exciting or tense. assured continuation fleecing the flock right about this time when an eyes-open mass-induced alpha mental state has been achieved they will usually pass the collection plate or basket. in the background a 45-beat-per-minute voice roll from the assistant preacher might exhort give to god...give to god...give to god.... and the audience does give. god may not get the money but his already-wealthy representative will. bonding by fear and suggestion next the fire-and-brimstone preacher will come out. he induces fear and increases the tension by talking about the devil going to hell or the forthcoming armegeddon. in the last such rally i attended the preacher talked about the blood that would soon be running out of every faucet in the land. he was also obsessed with a bloody axe of god which everyone had seen hanging above the pulpit the previous week. i have no doubt that everyone saw it--the power of suggestion given to hundreds of people in hypnosis assures that at least 10 to 25 percent would see whatever he suggested they see. testimony creating community spirit in most revivalist gatherings testifying or witnessing usually follows the fear-based sermon. people from the audience come up on stage and relate their stories. i was crippled and now i can walk! i had arthritis and now its gone! it is a psychological manipulation that works. after listening to numerous case histories of miraculous healings the average guy in the audience with a minor problem is sure he can be healed. the room is charged with fear guilt intense excitement and expectations. miracles now those who want to be healed are frequently lined up around the edge of the room or they are told to come down to the front. the preacher might touch them on the head firmly and scream be healed! this releases the psychic energy and for many catharsis results. catharsis is a purging of repressed emotions. individuals might cry fall down or even go into spasms. and if catharsis is effected they stand a chance of being healed. in catharsis one of the three brain phases mentioned earlier the brain-slate is temporarily wiped clean and the new suggestion is accepted. for some th

From : yabahoobs

on mar 9 1159 am the...@whatever.net wrote on fri 9 mar 2007 114821 -0500 tbone tbonenos...@nc.rr.com wrote tbone wrote they are probably more to the left than others but nowhere near as bad a fox. thats just your left wing bias talking. sorry miles but you have shown your hard right bias far more than i have to the left. lol. can you get more ridiculous sadly....yes .