Mag-Hytec transmission pans?

From : milesh

Q: anyone swap their stock pan for one of these on a 46re tranny i tow alot in arizona where its friggn hot in the summer. the model im looking at will add about 4qts capacity. will that pan cause any ground clearance issues i can get one for about $250. mopar has one for $150 or so but it only adds about 1 1/2 qts capacity and looks alot cheaper made. .

Replies:

From : max340

why the hell should i we were talking about placement of the sensor at either the pan or coller in line. since the rest of it doenst have anything to do witt he conversation it most certainly does. what would the point be in mentioning it other than trying to block your silly troll posts. to cover your ill informed big mouthed egotistical attempts to be right about anything and everything. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : max340

but we are not talking about the pump but we are you brought it up. and i did mention the pump as a possible source of heat. see the difference here is the size volume and pressure that a huge pump on a fire truck deals with and the density of water with when compared to that of a transmission and its fluid. yup and you have no clue. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : max340

i dont recall saying immediatly before anything more spin..... and putting the filter in the discussion is just making you look desperate. no its making me look like i have a clue about the fluid path in a mopar at something that youve shown you do not have. like i said i may be wrong no you are wrong. shut up now. gfy is that the best you can do when confronted with the flat out truth unless the increase is measurable it does not exist. the increase is measurable. again resistance to flow will raise fluid temperature. its a fairly simple concept easily grasped by most people. by your idiotic reasoning the cold water coming into your house must be burning hot with all of the resistance it encounters in the miles of piping it has to follow only an idiot would compare oil viscosity and water viscosity to make a point about resistance to flow. unless of course you have well water but even then it should be near boiling in the well itself with all of the resistance it has to deal with permeating the rock and forget the extreme temperatures it must reach coming out of the faucet if you dont have it opened all of the way speaking of relevance wtf does this have to do with anything but making the mud hole muddier but it is the combination of pressure and resistance that can generate heat. um yeah pretty much what weve been telling you. as for the filter the huge amount of surface area and relatively low pressure on the suction side of the pump means no measurable increase in temp again you show your ignorance of transmissions. while the surface area of the filter is large the passages to the pump are not and are certainly not straight. and if you say it does prove it. prove it doesnt. you are one of many claiming the opposite of the rest of us so the burden is on you. if anything were to raise the temp it would be the pump moron the only pump moron around here appears to be you. not the filter and if you knew even 1/100th of what you claim to you could have got me there. lol but instead both gary and i have got you on about a dozen other things that were at least as obvious. now for the regulator since it actually lowers pressure coming from the pump it also serves to lower the temp not increase it. more bullshit. a regulator is resistance to flow how else would it drop pressure lowering pressure does not mean the temp goes down if it did there would be no need for a cooler. i hear both case and deere make nice backhoes if you need help getting out of that mudhole. wrong again. the convertor is the major source of heat in the trans and thus is not false in any sense of the word. really please back that up. sure thing. itll be fun watching you try to refute even more facts. the convertor is the place where the most fluid shear takes place and thus is the place where the most heat is generated. fluid couplings are notorious for this sort of thing. funny how the automatic transmissions of the past which used basically the same converter without the electronic lockup had 100000 mile service intervals wrong. my 1975 dodge truck fsm clearly states 30000 mile intervals as the normal service periods for the at. and the od automatics are within 25000 miles. wrong. my 2000 dodge ram fsm clearly states 30000 mile intervals as the normal service periods for the at. it looks like the biggest source of heat is the od unit. only during convertor lock up and only over extended periods of lu time. otherwise the converter is was and always will be the major source of heat in an at. but the temp in the converter is not the same as the temp in the trans so what is the point your point was to get the most accurate picture of trans temp. the point where its highest is in the convertor. to get he most accurate picture you need the sensor where the temp is highest. boy were you misled...... and with the shit that you post i wonder why. but you never believe anything i say so you cant blame it on me. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : max340

if you really believe that i would suggest that you change your handle to partschanger. the regulator does not offer any resistance to pump flow. thats funny. really it is. it regulates the amount of pressure on its output side and sends the rest of the fluid back to the pump input wrong. it dumps it in the pan. which in fact decreases the load on the pump. wrong. the only load that the punp sees is what the regularor is set to at a given time and that is much lower than the load it would see without it otherwise in would not need to be there. wrong. now that would depend on the level of rotational energy and the coupling efficiency wouldnt it and i would think that an engine at idle is not producing maximumretational energy and 600 rpm is not giving 100% coupling either. the only factor creating heat is efficiency of the fluid coupling. at 0% of efficiency input but no output the engine runnoing but the car motionless the convertor is making heat and nothing else. the amount of heat is proportional to the amount of energy input. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : tbone

ok my error like i said i could be wrong no could be about it you are wrong. or cant you admit that i guess that the part where i said my error alluded you lol. i never claimed to be the resident trans expert no but all the other things you claimed to be an expert in certainly would have qualified you in your mind if you had actually been an expert in those things. where do you come up with this shit but the only way to learn is to ask or have someone correct me. thats never worked for you before..... that is because you have yet to do it. even in this post you make unfiunded accusations and do nothing more than insult and spin. it is too bad that this group is full of assholes whos only ambition in life is to attack someone and you wonder why i do it back every chance i get. do it back thats funny. its ok for you to stay in denial we understand. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : mike simmons

avis pa which is close to lock haven which is close to williamsport which is close to harrisburg which is close to lewisburg which is close to montoursville which is... i know where you will be. let me know when ya get to pa and if ya have time. im about 45-60 minutes away from avis. max cool! we will be there may 7-11 so when we get closer to the date email me with your phone # and i will call you. mike life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : redneck tookover hell

only an idiot would compare oil viscosity and water viscosity to make a point about resistance to flow. or a desparate lardass troll grasping at straws to keep his fat ass spinning in his mudhole politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : redneck tookover hell

where do you come up with this shit from your posts lardass politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : redneck tookover hell

you have no idea how a pmp works do you tell me maxi how does the pump create pressure why dont you look at that schematic you told gary to look at lardass and then youll know you never did answer garys question btw your vast automotive knowledge should make it easy politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : tbone

hydraulics is the last thing that you should be criticizing anybody about mr. master cylinder. and with your infinite knowledge of hydraulics youll be able to explain how all that stuff that depends on pump pressure works when the pump is sending all the oil to the cooler. i am still waiting for you to show exactly where i said that. now put up or shut up. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

why the hell should i we were talking about placement of the sensor at either the pan or coller in line. since the rest of it doenst have anything to do witt he conversation it most certainly does. no it doesnt and you have yet to prove otherwise. if you want to know the operating temp of the trans the pan is the best place and dc seems to agree with me. if you want to know the maximum fluid temp then the cooler input line would be the place but nobody has yet to say which is more important and why. what would the point be in mentioning it other than trying to block your silly troll posts. to cover your ill informed big mouthed egotistical attempts to be right about anything and everything. are you talking about yourself again because this is an exact description of you. when have you eve admitted to error oh yea never. and that includes the flow of voltage rust as a form of decomposition and countless others lol. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : redneck tookover hell

ok my error like i said i could be wrong. i never claimed to be the resident trans expert but the only way to learn is to ask or have someone correct me. spin in that mudhole somemorelardass correct me. it is too bad that this group is full of assholes whos only ambition in life is to attack someone and you wonder why i do it back every chance i get. i see now you are the victim lardass maybe you should call bill clinton he was a victim too. im sure hell be interested in your story politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : the guy

on 12 apr 2004 172614 gmt mopar440@aol.comnet.org redneck tookover hell wrote ok my error like i said i could be wrong. i never claimed to be the resident trans expert but the only way to learn is to ask or have someone correct me. spin in that mudhole somemorelardass correct me. it is too bad that this group is full of assholes whos only ambition in life is to attack someone and you wonder why i do it back every chance i get. i see now you are the victim lardass maybe you should call bill clinton he was a victim too. im sure hell be interested in your story politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. hey everyone look at the guy from pee-uu-whallop. he learned a new word today. that new word is lardass. hey red i bet you can use that one at the ro-de-o this year. .

From : the guy

on 12 apr 2004 173021 gmt mopar440@aol.comnet.org redneck tookover hell wrote only an idiot would compare oil viscosity and water viscosity to make a point about resistance to flow. or a desparate lardass troll grasping at straws to keep his fat ass spinning in his mudhole i wondered what you republicans in pee-uu-whallop did to pass your time. now i guess i understand red. do you guys have to dig your own mudholes for this spinning game or they just come naturally in your landscape politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : redneck tookover hell

i wondered what you republicans in pee-uu-whallop did to pass your time. now i guess i understand red. do you guys have to dig your own mudholes for this spinning game or they just come naturally in your landscape hey pussy where you been hiding your easter eggs and then trying to find them must be great to be able to entertain yourself like that i really like your the pussy name but tit also comes to mind tboners little troll in training politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : tbone

i dont recall saying immediatly before anything more spin..... yes but from you. and putting the filter in the discussion is just making you look desperate. no its making me look like i have a clue about the fluid path in a mopar at something that youve shown you do not have. lol more spin. since the filter is not a significant source of heat and not even a measurable one including it is simply not relevant to the discussion. like i said i may be wrong no you are wrong. shut up now. gfy is that the best you can do when confronted with the flat out truth and exactly what truth is shut up now and when did you ever follow it yourself unless the increase is measurable it does not exist. the increase is measurable. prove it show me the numbers. again resistance to flow will raise fluid temperature. its a fairly simple concept easily grasped by most people. but not by you. by your idiotic reasoning the cold water coming into your house must be burning hot with all of the resistance it encounters in the miles of piping it has to follow only an idiot would compare oil viscosity and water viscosity to make a point about resistance to flow. lol nice spin but no cigar. according to you any fluid that comes in contact with resistance will get hotter and the massive amount of resistance that your tap water encounters on its trip to your house should have it boiling. unless of course you have well water but even then it should be near boiling in the well itself with all of the resistance it has to deal with permeating the rock and forget the extreme temperatures it must reach coming out of the faucet if you dont have it opened all of the way speaking of relevance wtf does this have to do with anything but making the mud hole muddier it shows that there is much more to it than simply resistance to flow. but it is the combination of pressure and resistance that can generate heat. um yeah pretty much what weve been telling you. lol you have said no such thing and you forgot to include flow. yet another time you could have got me if your were even half as smart as you claim to be. as for the filter the huge amount of surface area and relatively low pressure on the suction side of the pump means no measurable increase in temp again you show your ignorance of transmissions. while the surface area of the filter is large the passages to the pump are not and are certainly not straight. bit what does that have to do with the filter is this just more spin on your part and if you say it does prove it. prove it doesnt. you are one of many claiming the opposite of the rest of us so the burden is on you. sorry dud but you are the one that claims that it does and that it is significant to the discussion so the proof of that is on you. if anything were to raise the temp it would be the pump moron the only pump moron around here appears to be you. lol then why did you mention the two parts on either side that dont produce and significant amount of heat and not include the one that does and you claim to be the trans expert. you are looking more like just a parts changer now. not the filter and if you knew even 1/100th of what you claim to you could have got me there. lol but instead both gary and i have got you on about a dozen other things that were at least as obvious. like what i wa discussing the flow as was relavent to the position of the sensor not giving a dissertation on the exact flow path of the fluid. the filter and regulator have no relavence to the discussion so it was not included. i didnt think about the converter and admitted that but even then since jsut about all of the fluid sent to the converter then goes to the cooler who cares. now for the regulator since it actually lowers pressure coming from the pump it also serves to lower the temp not increase it. more bullshit. a regulator is resistance to flow how else would it drop pressure how about by bleaing off the excess pressure which lowers the resistance that the pump sees. lowering pressure does not mean the temp goes down if it did there would be no need for a cooler. lol you really do like to show your ignornce dont you. i guess that relative terms hold no meaning for your vast intellect. the regulator adds no significant anount of heat to the fluid itself and because it lowers the pressure on the pump it reduces the amount of heat that the pump would have generated had it not been there so in relative terms it reduces the heat. and going by your idiotic reasoning since the system already has a cooler it should not need any auxillary coolers or oversized pans either. i guess that you buddy transbutcher doesnt know wtf he is talking about lol. i hear both case and deere make nice backhoes if you need help getting out of that mudhole. i take it that

From : redneck tookover hell

hey everyone look at the guy from pee-uu-whallop. he learned a new word today. that new word is lardass. hey red i bet you can use that one at the ro-de-o this year. i see the pussy is back. you have fun hiding your easter eggs someone must have taken pity on you and posted your bail politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : tbone

where did i say that it just sent it to the cooler it is funny watching you in your desperate attempts to try and prove me wrong. wahts really funny is your desperate attempts to say you are wrong may be then you come back and attempt to spin your way out of it. lol i did no such thing. i clearly said that i forgot the converter but also said that since it s not part of the transmission and just about all of the fluid comming out of it is going to the cooler rather than the internals of the transmission it does not give a clear picture of the transmission operating temp only the maximum fluid temp and any way that you spin it they are not the same thing. if you knew half as much as you think you do youd realize there are several reasons why it does not go to the cooler from the pump at all let alone just to the cooler. i never said that it did just go only to the cooler and i never said that i knew everything about them. hell more times than not i said that i know damn little about them and since i dont intend to rebuild one ever why should i but that doesnt mean that i dont understand some of the theory or that i cant look a t a fluid flw diagram and recognise the type of regulator that it is using something that you dont seem to know how to do. keep spinning..... i am learning form the master you but in this case i dont need to. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

if you really believe that i would suggest that you change your handle to partschanger. the regulator does not offer any resistance to pump flow. thats funny. really it is. it regulates the amount of pressure on its output side and sends the rest of the fluid back to the pump input wrong. it dumps it in the pan. lol that is not what the diagram clearly shows but either way since the pump draws fluid from the pan as well it still at worst indirectly sends it back to the pump input so as you say just shut up. which in fact decreases the load on the pump. wrong. hahhahahahahaha how can it return fluid to the pan and not decrease the load on the pump. anything that uses fluid in any way reduces pressure and therefore the load. the only load that the punp sees is what the regularor is set to at a given time and that is much lower than the load it would see without it otherwise in would not need to be there. wrong. you have no idea how a pmp works do you tell me maxi how does the pump create pressure now that would depend on the level of rotational energy and the coupling efficiency wouldnt it and i would think that an engine at idle is not producing maximumretational energy and 600 rpm is not giving 100% coupling either. the only factor creating heat is efficiency of the fluid coupling. at 0% of efficiency input but no output the engine runnoing but the car motionless the convertor is making heat and nothing else. the amount of heat is proportional to the amount of energy input. hahahahahahahaha hehehehehehehehe oh stop please. do you even bother to read what you write even though efficiency and transfer ratio are closely related they are not the same thing as you want to make it seem however that is not the funny part of this. i said that the amount of heat depended on the efficiency of the coupling the amount of the energy being transferred and the rotational energy amount of energy being input during a stalled condition. you start off by saying that it is only the efficiency of the fluid coupling which is completely wrong on multiple levels and then end it saying that it is proportional to the energy input which contradicts your efficient statement. any way you look at it trans boy you are wrong. now lets see if you are man enough to admit to it or just resort to either your deletion or spin methods such as accusing me of spinning it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : max340

i guess that the part where i said my error no you keep claiming may be might be could be... its never i am. alluded eluded whatever. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : the guy

on 12 apr 2004 174357 gmt mopar440@aol.comnet.org redneck tookover hell wrote i wondered what you republicans in pee-uu-whallop did to pass your time. now i guess i understand red. do you guys have to dig your own mudholes for this spinning game or they just come naturally in your landscape hey pussy where you been hiding your easter eggs and then trying to find them must be great to be able to entertain yourself like that i really like your the pussy name but tit also comes to mind tboners little troll in training you are the still learning english politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : max340

i am still waiting for you to show exactly where i said that. now put up or shut up. quote from nntp-posting-date sat 10 apr 2004 113758 edt why would the oil be any hotter in the cooling lines then it is in the pan iirc doesnt the oil go from the pan to the pump and then into the cooling lines end quote quote from nntp-posting-date sat 10 apr 2004 124627 edt like i said although i may be wrong the oil in the pan is before the cooler. the pump pulls the oil from the pan and sends it to the cooler in line. end quote consider it put up. now will you shut up max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : max340

if you want to know the operating temp of the trans the pan is the best place and dc seems to agree with me. prove its the best place. if you want to know the maximum fluid temp then the cooler input line would be the place so now the cooler line is the best place but nobody has yet to say which is more important and why. weve said it repeatedly given you all the reasoning told you about the flow of the fluid in its progression through the trans and given yo a few ideas on what causes fluid temp to rise. you claim its all bullshit. far be it from me to help you free yourself from a self imposed ignorance. try opening that fsm you claim to have all these years maybe youll believe them..... maybe you wont. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : max340

lol that is not what the diagram clearly shows open your fsm and look at it. its there in black and white and you are screaming purple!!!!! which in fact decreases the load on the pump. wrong. hahhahahahahaha how can it return fluid to the pan and not decrease the load on the pump. anything that uses fluid in any way reduces pressure and therefore the load. wrong. fluid flow reduces load restriction increases it. all of the passages in a trans that go t oapply or activate something increase resistance to flow since they all end with a resistance. tell me maxi how does the pump create pressure if you had a clue you would know that a pump that moves liquid does not create pressure it creates flow. resistance to flow creates pressure. thus if the pressure regulator exists the pump sees more load with it than without it. since you cannot comprehend this simple principle of hydraulics anything further that i say would be completely over your head. so ill move on to amusing myself rather than trying to educate you. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : tbone

i am still waiting for you to show exactly where i said that. now put up or shut up. quote from nntp-posting-date sat 10 apr 2004 113758 edt why would the oil be any hotter in the cooling lines then it is in the pan iirc doesnt the oil go from the pan to the pump and then into the cooling lines end quote where is the word directly like i said put up or shut up. quote from nntp-posting-date sat 10 apr 2004 124627 edt like i said although i may be wrong the oil in the pan is before the cooler. the pump pulls the oil from the pan and sends it to the cooler in line. end quote where is the word directly how does the oil travel to the converter if not for the pump like i said put up or shut up. .

From : yonzie

the guy theguy@myplace.com wrote you are the still learning english now do you understand english dont you get it no one likes you .

From : tbone

if you want to know the operating temp of the trans the pan is the best place and dc seems to agree with me. prove its the best place. i dont have to the manufacturer does it that way for a reason prove that it isnt. if you want to know the maximum fluid temp then the cooler input line would be the place so now the cooler line is the best place you really do have a problem with comprehention. but nobody has yet to say which is more important and why. weve said it repeatedly given you all the reasoning told you about the flow of the fluid in its progression through the trans and given yo a few ideas on what causes fluid temp to rise. bullshit. all you have done is whine about parts not being mentioned that have no relavence in the discussion and when asked for the importance of the highest temp when it probably occurs in the converter which is outside of the transmission you have no answer. you claim its all bullshit. because you seem to be unable to give a clear answer. what is the importance of the converter temp since it seems more than able to deal with high temps and the fluid comming out of it will be cooled before it returns to the transmission far be it from me to help you free yourself from a self imposed ignorance. try opening that fsm you claim to have all these years maybe youll believe them..... maybe you wont. funny my fsm makes no claim at to a best place for a sensor unless i just missed it. care to give me a section number -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : max340

where is the word directly like i said put up or shut up. your wording says it all you didnt need to say directly. youve just removed whatever vestage of credibility you may have had and used it to hammer your foot in to your epiglottis. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : transurgeon

if you want to know the operating temp of the trans the pan is the best place and dc seems to agree with me. prove its the best place. i dont have to the manufacturer does it that way for a reason prove that it isnt. if you want to know the maximum fluid temp then the cooler input line would be the place so now the cooler line is the best place you really do have a problem with comprehention. but nobody has yet to say which is more important and why. weve said it repeatedly given you all the reasoning told you about the flow of the fluid in its progression through the trans and given yo a few ideas on what causes fluid temp to rise. bullshit. all you have done is whine about parts not being mentioned that have no relavence in the discussion and when asked for the importance of the highest temp when it probably occurs in the converter which is outside of the transmission you have no answer. the converter was inside the bell housing on 100% of the units ive seen. that makes it inside the transmission braniac you claim its all bullshit. because you seem to be unable to give a clear answer. what is the importance of the converter temp since it seems more than able to deal with high temps and the fluid comming out of it will be cooled before it returns to the transmission not in high-slip conditions einstein far be it from me to help you free yourself from a self imposed ignorance. try opening that fsm you claim to have all these years maybe youll believe them..... maybe you wont. funny my fsm makes no claim at to a best place for a sensor unless i just missed it. care to give me a section number once again spin the subject into something else -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

where is the word directly like i said put up or shut up. your wording says it all you didnt need to say directly. iow even though you never said it this is the way that i took it and since im never wrong this must be what you said so leave me alone waaaaaaa! -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

lol and so is the flex plate and the nose of the starter. are they part of the transmission too that makes it inside the transmission braniac hey lardass gary didnt say it was part of the transmission he said it was inside the transmssion. learn to read lol if it is inside of the transmission as you call it why is it called the bell housing. and before you start more of your lame shit many transmissions do not have the bell housing cast into the transmssions housing. not in high-slip conditions einstein really please explain the vauge and almost meaningless comment. slippage is what you do when youre spinning your lardass in that mudhole as i thought a meaningless statement with no definable explanation. btw the location of the temp sensor was the initial subject of the thread moron. nice spin lardass. shall we post all your off topic posts in this thread sorry rumpranger but i was not accusing anyone of spin that would be transbutcher doing that. now the only one spinning here is you imagine that. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : redneck tookover hell

lol and so is the flex plate and the nose of the starter. are they part of the transmission too that makes it inside the transmission braniac hey lardass gary didnt say it was part of the transmission he said it was inside the transmssion. learn to read not in high-slip conditions einstein really please explain the vauge and almost meaningless comment. slippage is what you do when youre spinning your lardass in that mudhole btw the location of the temp sensor was the initial subject of the thread moron. nice spin lardass. shall we post all your off topic posts in this thread politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : tbone

lol that is not what the diagram clearly shows open your fsm and look at it. its there in black and white and you are screaming purple!!!!! which one are you looking at. i am currently looking at the one fro my wifes intrepid but either way if it is returning it to the pan and the pump gets its fluid from the pan then it is still returning it to the pumps input. which in fact decreases the load on the pump. wrong. hahhahahahahaha how can it return fluid to the pan and not decrease the load on the pump. anything that uses fluid in any way reduces pressure and therefore the load. wrong. fluid flow reduces load restriction increases it. that is right and your regulator controls pressure by allowing fluid to return to the pan and the increased flow reduces pressure and the load on the pump. tell me maxi how does the pump create pressure if you had a clue you would know that a pump that moves liquid does not create pressure it creates flow. resistance to flow creates pressure. lol watching you shoot yourself in the foot is always fun to see. if pressure is created by the resistance to flow and with liquids you are close enough would it not make more sense to reduce the pressure by allowing more flow now how would we do that how about a device with some type of valve that would only open if a set pressure was exceeded to increase the flow. and where would that extra flow go why how about the pan. now gee how would it get there how about those ports going from this magical device back to the pan. what would we call such a device i know a regultor. thus if the pressure regulator exists the pump sees more load with it than without it. w r o n g !!!!!! regulators used in continuous pump applications do their job by bleeding off excess pressure flow and because they do that the pump only sees a load equal to the regulators set pressure. doing it any other way just puts an excess load on the pump which serves no purpose. and since the load on the motor is reduced by this type of regulator the amount of heat generated by the pump is also reduced not eliminated. as for the amount of heat generated by this type of regulator probably not measurable and if so it would be statistically insignificant. the restrictive regulator that you are thinking of is used in compressed or stored energy systems like an air compressor where using a pressure bleed-off regulator would make the pump run more and waste energy. since you cannot comprehend this simple principle of hydraulics anything further that i say would be completely over your head. so ill move on to amusing myself rather than trying to educate you. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

if you want to know the operating temp of the trans the pan is the best place and dc seems to agree with me. prove its the best place. i dont have to the manufacturer does it that way for a reason prove that it isnt. if you want to know the maximum fluid temp then the cooler input line would be the place so now the cooler line is the best place you really do have a problem with comprehention. but nobody has yet to say which is more important and why. weve said it repeatedly given you all the reasoning told you about the flow of the fluid in its progression through the trans and given yo a few ideas on what causes fluid temp to rise. bullshit. all you have done is whine about parts not being mentioned that have no relavence in the discussion and when asked for the importance of the highest temp when it probably occurs in the converter which is outside of the transmission you have no answer. the converter was inside the bell housing on 100% of the units ive seen. that makes it inside the transmission braniac lol and so is the flex plate and the nose of the starter. are they part of the transmission too you claim its all bullshit. because you seem to be unable to give a clear answer. what is the importance of the converter temp since it seems more than able to deal with high temps and the fluid comming out of it will be cooled before it returns to the transmission not in high-slip conditions einstein really please explain the vauge and almost meaningless comment. far be it from me to help you free yourself from a self imposed ignorance. try opening that fsm you claim to have all these years maybe youll believe them..... maybe you wont. funny my fsm makes no claim at to a best place for a sensor unless i just missed it. care to give me a section number once again spin the subject into something else i guess that you mist be talking to your buddy there since he was the one that suggested this and btw the location of the temp sensor was the initial subject of the thread moron. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : redneck tookover hell

if it is inside of the transmission as you call it why is it called the bell housing. spinning again i see you seen any chrysler automatic transmissions with a separate bell housing politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : tbone

is chrysler the only maker of transmissions -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving if it is inside of the transmission as you call it why is it called the bell housing. spinning again i see you seen any chrysler automatic transmissions with a separate bell housing politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : max340

if it is returning it to the pan and the pump gets its fluid from the pan then it is still returning it to the pumps input. wrong. it is being dumped into a no pressure/no flow reservoir. your regulator controls pressure by allowing fluid to return to the pan and the increased flow reduces pressure and the load on the pump. bingo but to reduce pressure you have to first create it. thus the regulator is a variable restriction to compensate for the variable flow from the pump. no its not a constant flow pump. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : max340

w r o n g !!!!!! regulators used in continuous pump applications do their job by bleeding off excess pressure flow and because they do that the pump only sees a load equal to the regulators set pressure. a continuous pump its a gerotor pump with variable speed. doing it any other way just puts an excess load on the pump which serves no purpose. so there is a load on the pump as imposed by the regulator by using a restriction. and since the load on the motor is reduced by this type of regulator wrong. the regulator makes it a constant load. the restrictive regulator that you are thinking of is right inside all mopar transmissions. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : tbone

if it is returning it to the pan and the pump gets its fluid from the pan then it is still returning it to the pumps input. wrong. it is being dumped into a no pressure/no flow reservoir. really then how does the pump get any fluid if no fluid can flow dumbass your regulator controls pressure by allowing fluid to return to the pan and the increased flow reduces pressure and the load on the pump. bingo but to reduce pressure you have to first create it. you really are the idiot that i thought you were. the restriction comes from the valve body actuators and valves ya know the very things that need protection from the high pressure that the pump can create. you two really need to get back to hydraulics 101 because neither one of you have a fucking clue. thus the regulator is a variable restriction to compensate for the variable flow from the pump. no the regulator is a non-restrictive flow control and nothing more. until the pressure reaches its set point it acts like it isnt even there and when the pressure exceeds it it redirects enough flow to maintain the set pressure at its output. you really need to learn how this stuff works before you claim yourself to be an expert. you are really beginning to sound like just a parts changer to me. no its not a constant flow pump. well actually yes it is. from the time it starts turning until the time it stops fluid is constantly flowing through it although not at a constant rate. i can play with words just like you maxi. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

w r o n g !!!!!! regulators used in continuous pump applications do their job by bleeding off excess pressure flow and because they do that the pump only sees a load equal to the regulators set pressure. a continuous pump its a gerotor pump with variable speed. but it is continuously pumping fluid regardless of the variable rate. perhaps you should look the word up. the only other type would be an intermittent type a compressor / tank combination where the pump only runs long enough to charge up some type of reservoir. doing it any other way just puts an excess load on the pump which serves no purpose. so there is a load on the pump as imposed by the regulator by using a restriction. no there is a load but the regulator has nothing to do with it. even a simple restrictive regulator imposes no load until its set pressure is met. you really have no idea how a regulator operates do you and since the load on the motor is reduced by this type of regulator wrong. the regulator makes it a constant load. not true. neither type of regulator can do that and only one type comes close. the restrictive regulator that you are thinking of is right inside all mopar transmissions. and as usual you are wrong again imagine that. you should learn how to recognize and understand how the two basic types of regulators work and how you can tell them apart before you make yourself look like a complete idiot and here is a hint one of them does not use return ports or passages. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : max340

wrong. it is being dumped into a no pressure/no flow reservoir. really then how does the pump get any fluid if no fluid can flow dumbass you dont understand reservoirs either do you the restriction comes from the valve body actuators and valves ya know the very things that need protection from the high pressure that the pump can create. and also from the regulator. if the regulator didnt have resistance to flow all the fluid would flow out through the regulator and nothing would work in the valvebody. you two really need to get back to hydraulics 101 because neither one of you have a fucking clue. lol dude i have more basic hydraulic texts on my shelves than you have transmissions. no the regulator is a non-restrictive flow control and nothing more. wrong. until the pressure reaches its set point lol so back to garys question do you know how much pressure the pump can put out ooops it is relevant isnt it well actually yes it is. from the time it starts turning until the time it stops fluid is constantly flowing through it although not at a constant rate. i can play with words just like you maxi. thats great now maybe you should grab a clue about what type of pump it is not what you like to call it. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : max340

perhaps you should look the word up. perhaps you should look up the types of pumps used in transmissions. the only other type would be an intermittent type a compressor / tank combination where the pump only runs long enough to charge up some type of reservoir. nope. gerotor rotary and vane are the three most often used. no there is a load but the regulator has nothing to do with it. lol. even a simple restrictive regulator imposes no load until its set pressure is met. ok so back to garys question what pressure is the pump capable of creating you really have no idea how a regulator operates do you and you have repeatedly shown that you have no idea how a transmission works let alone the most basic element of it. you should learn how to recognize and understand how the two basic types of regulators work and how you can tell them apart before you make yourself look like a complete idiot well considering that you were wrong back at the beginning of this and have -placed yourself in the middle of a growing swamp of information thta you refuse to use to help yourself you would do well to heed your own advice. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : tom lawrence

as a spectator here watching all this arguing back and forth theres one question that keeps reverberating inside my head and i wonder if you could answer it to satisfy my curiosity have you ever torn down and rebuilt an actual transmission .

From : roy

i dont think youre gonna get an answer to that...... denny ya know most folks here usually offer thoughts on stuff they are experienced in or have experience with or have done themselves. a lot own dodge trucks some have owned cummins engines in dodge trucks some have been involved in racin some do tractor pulls some shoot some plow snow some work at dealerships some own repair shops some build those catapults some pull big assed trailers some pull smaller trailers some do ac some have decades in the automotive or related fields and the list goes on and on. that is where the answers come from. then there are those who read out of a fsm or a haynes and become overnight experts in everything. most can tell the difference right away. hell i dont even have a dodge right now. but i figure i can still pick up something here that will be of use. oh for you blind loyalty folksg i bought the lightning! man does that huffer sing. take your best shot.vbg the friggin temp sensor goes before the cooler. bfg roy as a spectator here watching all this arguing back and forth theres one question that keeps reverberating inside my head and i wonder if you could answer it to satisfy my curiosity have you ever torn down and rebuilt an actual transmission .

From : denny

i dont think youre gonna get an answer to that...... denny as a spectator here watching all this arguing back and forth theres one question that keeps reverberating inside my head and i wonder if you could answer it to satisfy my curiosity have you ever torn down and rebuilt an actual transmission .

From : jerry

roy wrote the friggin temp sensor goes before the cooler. bfg of course but remember what happened the last tine you said that jerry .

From : tbone

wrong. it is being dumped into a no pressure/no flow reservoir. really then how does the pump get any fluid if no fluid can flow dumbass you dont understand reservoirs either do you no i just like to watch your desperate spin. any way you look at it if the fluid cannot flow it cannot move and the pump would not be able to draw it in. the restriction comes from the valve body actuators and valves ya know the very things that need protection from the high pressure that the pump can create. and also from the regulator. if the regulator didnt have resistance to flow all the fluid would flow out through the regulator and nothing would work in the valvebody. lol you do have a strange way of thinking. yes it blocks flow through itself when the pressure is below its set point but that does not add resistance as you claim. if it did then its removal including the passages would decrease it and it does not. you two really need to get back to hydraulics 101 because neither one of you have a fucking clue. lol dude i have more basic hydraulic texts on my shelves than you have transmissions. maybe you do and perhaps you should read them. no the regulator is a

From : roy

you havent looked at this regulator have you sure i have how about you -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

perhaps you should look the word up. perhaps you should look up the types of pumps used in transmissions. the type of pump is irrelevant to the delivery method. the only other type would be an intermittent type a compressor / tank combination where the pump only runs long enough to charge up some type of reservoir. nope. gerotor rotary and vane are the three most often used. lol and what does that have to do with the delivery method no there is a load but the regulator has nothing to do with it. lol. i know that you dont understand but it adds no resistance to the system. if it did then removing it would reduce it and that will not happen. even a simple restrictive regulator imposes no load until its set pressure is met. ok so back to garys question what pressure is the pump capable of creating who cares as long as the minimum is within spec ans the maximum can be controlled by the regulator... you really have no idea how a regulator operates do you and you have repeatedly shown that you have no idea how a transmission works let alone the most basic element of it. i have said over and over that i am not a transmission expert. the sad thing is that you do and still dont understand toe operation of the regulator. you should learn how to recognize and understand how the two basic types of regulators work and how you can tell them apart before you make yourself look like a complete idiot well considering that you were wrong back at the beginning of this and have -placed yourself in the middle of a growing swamp of information thta you refuse to use to help yourself you would do well to heed your own advice. that would only be valid if the swamp of information was correct although swamp is a good term since the two of you have created a mess of irrelevant info of questionable validity and nothing to the point. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : max340

any way you look at it if the fluid cannot flow it cannot move and the pump would not be able to draw it in. so exactly how deos the trans function given that at some point its shut down and no fluid can flow anywhere. if all the fluid cannot flow and what you say is true the trans would never work since it would never be able to pull fluid that does not flow. lol you do have a strange way of thinking. yes it blocks flow through itself when the pressure is below its set point but that does not add resistance as you claim. sure it does all fluid flows through the regulator. all ya have to do is look at the schematic to know that. if it did then its removal including the passages would decrease it and it does not. lol ever looked at the schematic how about the valvebody take out that regulator and there is no resistance to flow.... right back to the pan. you truly stepped right off a cliff in the credibility area with that one. you seem to like to look at it from the point that when it is closed you still havent looked at the schematic have you you claim to have a dodge ram and you claim to have the fsm which means you could look at the info and find out why you are so far off base but im beginning to wonder if you are just that full of crap and dont have any of the stuff that would help you out. it is providing a resistance to flow but a resitance of flow to what component all of them. look at the schematic. in actuallity when the pressure is below the set point it is closed it acts like it is not even there. the regulator on an at is never closed. but then you would know that if you had a clue. it does not and cannot increase pressure. it most certainly does. without it only flow would exist. when the pressure exceeds it current setting it open and diverts flow back to the pan which decreases pressure. nope. if it were not there at all including the passages the pressure would go higher and so would the heat and strain on the pump. hardly. look at the schematic. the maximum pressure before shear point is not and that is what he asked. it most certainly is. since the expected pressure in reverse at 1500 rpm is between 175 and 235 for the intrepid i would say at least that much. you are catching up.... very slowly but still catching up. if its at least that much and reverse is used at close to idle what are the odds of the regulator ever being closed hint there is no such position if the pump was not capable of producing more flow and pressure than that the transmission required it would not be needed. well that makes no sense at all. if whatever type of pump is constantly running and constantly delivering output then it is a constant delivery regardless of the rate of flow unless it is stated as a continuous flow rate system and that is not what i said. lol you certainly are full of yourself arent you wtf was that bullshit max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : max340

the type of pump is irrelevant to the delivery method. wrong. ive explained this. nope. gerotor rotary and vane are the three most often used. lol and what does that have to do with the delivery method plenty. ive already explained that. i know that you dont understand but it adds no resistance to the system. yes it does. if it did then removing it would reduce it and that will not happen. it it it. try using a noun for a change. if it the regulator were removed then it the resistance would go away completely. you need to look at the schematics. ok so back to garys question what pressure is the pump capable of creating who cares as long as the minimum is within spec ans the maximum can be controlled by the regulator... the proper answer is none. nada. zip. zero. you cannot compress a fluid so a hydraulic pump makes no pressure whatsoever. to have pressure in a hydraulic system you must have resistance to flow. in a transmission the regulator is the first valve that imparts that resistance. take out that regulator valve and the fluid drains into the pan. i have said over and over that i am not a transmission expert. yuo arent a hydraulic expert either. the sad thing is that you do and still dont understand toe operation of the regulator. the only one claiming im an expert is you. but i still know enopugh to run you in circles. that would only be valid if the swamp of information was correct although swamp is a good term since the two of you have created a mess of irrelevant info of questionable validity and nothing to the point. i keep referring you to the schematic of the trans in question. it doesnt get any more valid and accurate than that. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : jerry

roy wrote roy wrote the friggin temp sensor goes before the cooler. bfg of course but remember what happened the last tine you said that ya think anybody learned anything i wonder how many actually have used a aftermarket temp gauge. obviously not and its even more obvious one of them hasnt a frigging clue what he is talking about even with supposedly diagrams in front of him. jerry .

From : tbone

the type of pump is irrelevant to the delivery method. wrong. ive explained this. you did no such thing. nope. gerotor rotary and vane are the three most often used. lol and what does that have to do with the delivery method plenty. ive already explained that. it has nothing to do with it unless you are going on about your variable bs but either way unless the flow at some point stops it is continuous any way that you look at it i know that you dont understand but it adds no resistance to the system. yes it does. nope even the converter passthrough is part of the regulation chamber and adds no resistance. if it did then removing it would reduce it and that will not happen. it it it. try using a noun for a change. if it the regulator were removed then it the resistance would go away completely. you need to look at the schematics. resorting to grammer correction now remove as in design without it but even if you just removed it and left a gaping hole if you removed the return passage that serves no purpose without the regulator you would still get no pressure drop well not until one of the cooling lines blew off anyway. ok so back to garys question what pressure is the pump capable of creating who cares as long as the minimum is within spec ans the maximum can be controlled by the regulator... the proper answer is none. nada. zip. zero. you cannot compress a fluid so a hydraulic pump makes no pressure whatsoever. lol you really are funny when you try and get all scientific. first of all the statement that a fluid is incompressible is a myth. a fluid can be compressed but it is so little that it is difficult to measure. either way the compressibility of a liquid has nothing to do with it since without resistance you cant compress a gas either. a pump applies a force to the fluid to move it and that force is pressure. the more resistance you have the more pressure you will see up to the pumps maximum but the pump is producing the force pressure on the fluid and since there is no such thing as a perfect pump with no internal resistance they all produce some internal pressure. to have pressure in a hydraulic system you must have resistance to flow. in a transmission the regulator is the first valve that imparts that resistance. i guess that you missed the direct connection to the manual valve the big one just above the regulator. the port on the bottom right is connected directly to the pump just like the regulator. take out that regulator valve and the fluid drains into the pan. only if you leave the return port in place but since it serves no purpose without the regulator why would you do that unless you are an idiot. i have said over and over that i am not a transmission expert. yuo arent a hydraulic expert either. you are correct but i seem to know much more about it than you do. the sad thing is that you do and still dont understand toe operation of the regulator. the only one claiming im an expert is you. but i still know enopugh to run you in circles. actually max you are just spinning in circles. that would only be valid if the swamp of information was correct although swamp is a good term since the two of you have created a mess of irrelevant info of questionable validity and nothing to the point. i keep referring you to the schematic of the trans in question. it doesnt get any more valid and accurate than that. lol you just started doing that now. but even there you would need to understand them before you can use them and it is clear that you dont. perhaps you should look at the ones that the intrepid uses. it might make it a little clearer exactly what the regulator is doing and how it does it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

roy wrote roy wrote the friggin temp sensor goes before the cooler. bfg of course but remember what happened the last tine you said that ya think anybody learned anything i wonder how many actually have used a aftermarket temp gauge. obviously not and its even more obvious one of them hasnt a frigging clue what he is talking about even with supposedly diagrams in front of him. while true you shouldnt pick on max like that. after all it is his profession or so he says. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

i dont think youre gonna get an answer to that...... i have answered that question many times already. i have worked on a few but i have never rebuilt one. most architects that design skyscrapers havent actually built one either. does that mean that they dont know understand the structure denny ya know most folks here usually offer thoughts on stuff they are experienced in or have experience with or have done themselves. a lot own dodge trucks some have owned cummins engines in dodge trucks some have been involved in racin some do tractor pulls some shoot some plow snow some work at dealerships some own repair shops some build those catapults some pull big assed trailers some pull smaller trailers some do ac some have decades in the automotive or related fields and the list goes on and on. that is where the answers come from. that doesnt make them any more right or wrong than anyone else. funny thing is that it really doesnt matter what people actually know or have actually done your going to believe what you want to regardless of the truth or lie. then there are those who read out of a fsm or a haynes and become overnight experts in everything. most can tell the difference right away. influenced completely by your opinion. hell i dont even have a dodge right now. but i figure i can still pick up something here that will be of use. oh for you blind loyalty folksg i bought the lightning! man does that huffer sing. take your best shot.vbg must be nice to have that kind of money lying around. good luck with it. the friggin temp sensor goes before the cooler. bfg if you say so. did this information come from the people who rebuilt your trans or is it a personal opinion -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : max340

and how hot is the fluid allowed to get rule of thumb says nothing above 180-200f dodge sensor is set to cut od and look for limp home mode at 260 according to the fsm. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : tbone

any way you look at it if the fluid cannot flow it cannot move and the pump would not be able to draw it in. so exactly how deos the trans function given that at some point its shut down and no fluid can flow anywhere. if all the fluid cannot flow and what you say is true the trans would never work since it would never be able to pull fluid that does not flow. sorry max but im too used to your spin anymore and it has lost its effectiveness. i didnt say that and you know it. you were the one that said the regulator dumps the fluid into a reservoir where it does not flow. since flow is the movement of a liquid or gas if it does not flow it does not move. if the fluid in the pan does not move how does it get into the pump this is what you said not me now either back it up or shut up and stop spinning. lol you do have a strange way of thinking. yes it blocks flow through itself when the pressure is below its set point but that does not add resistance as you claim. sure it does all fluid flows through the regulator. all ya have to do is look at the schematic to know that. really perhaps you had better look again. look above the regulator at the manual valve and notice that tee connection between the regulator input and the manual valve. it realy must suck to be you about now. if it did then its removal including the passages would decrease it and it does not. lol ever looked at the schematic how about the valvebody take out that regulator and there is no resistance to flow.... right back to the pan. only in your moronic little world. you truly stepped right off a cliff in the credibility area with that one. do you mean like your all fluid goes through the regulator bs. the simple fact is that the return port that goes back to the pan is only used by the regulator and would be removed as well. without it the fluid would not be able to go directly back to the pan. you seem to like to look at it from the point that when it is closed you still havent looked at the schematic have you you claim to have a dodge ram and you claim to have the fsm which means you could look at the info and find out why you are so far off base but im beginning to wonder if you are just that full of crap and dont have any of the stuff that would help you out. actually. i was initially looking at the fsm for the intrepid since that was close by but since then. i have gotten the fsm for the ram. while the ram combined the regulator for the valve body and converter into one unit and has a booster valve that the intrepid does not use the two regulators both work the same way and all of the fluid does not go through the regulator or their would be nothing to go into the valve body except the return port that is. it is providing a resistance to flow but a resitance of flow to what component all of them. look at the schematic. i did and perrhaps you need to take a closer one yourself. in actuallity when the pressure is below the set point it is closed it acts like it is not even there. the regulator on an at is never closed. but then you would know that if you had a clue. never it does not and cannot increase pressure. it most certainly does. without it only flow would exist. roflmao that would indicate that the entire transmission has no resistance including closed valves and if you believe that you truly are an idiot. when the pressure exceeds it current setting it open and diverts flow back to the pan which decreases pressure. nope. yep and it is as clear as day if you actually knew how to read the diagram. perhaps you should ask someone you work with to help you out. if it were not there at all including the passages the pressure would go higher and so would the heat and strain on the pump. hardly. look at the schematic. i did and perhaps you should as well. without the return port how would the fluid get back to the pan. the maximum pressure before shear point is not and that is what he asked. it most certainly is. wrong. since the expected pressure in reverse at 1500 rpm is between 175 and 235 for the intrepid i would say at least that much. you are catching up.... very slowly but still catching up. if its at least that much and reverse is used at close to idle what are the odds of the regulator ever being closed hint there is no such position lol when exactly is 1500 rpm close to idle. you do know that this is a variable regulator and both can and is set to different pressures depending on various conditions such as what gear it is in or set to dont you if the pump was not capable of producing more flow and pressure than that the transmission required it would not be needed. well that makes no sense at all. maybe not to you but i really didnt expect all that much from you either. since as you put it this pump has a variable output the m

From : roy

i dont think youre gonna get an answer to that...... i have answered that question many times already. i have worked on a few but i have never rebuilt one. most architects that design skyscrapers havent actually built one either. does that mean that they dont know understand the structure denny ya know most folks here usually offer thoughts on stuff they are experienced in or have experience with or have done themselves. a lot own dodge trucks some have owned cummins engines in dodge trucks some have been involved in racin some do tractor pulls some shoot some plow snow some work at dealerships some own repair shops some build those catapults some pull big assed trailers some pull smaller trailers some do ac some have decades in the automotive or related fields and the list goes on and on. that is where the answers come from. that doesnt make them any more right or wrong than anyone else. funny thing is that it really doesnt matter what people actually know or have actually done your going to believe what you want to regardless of the truth or lie. for the most part it becomes real clear real soon when people are spouting off and dont have a glimmer of a clue about the subject. then there are those who read out of a fsm or a haynes and become overnight experts in everything. most can tell the difference right away. influenced completely by your opinion. id much rather hear from somebody that has practical experience in a subject. a fsm will only take you so far and at times they lag behind real world stuff. hell i dont even have a dodge right now. but i figure i can still pick up something here that will be of use. oh for you blind loyalty folksg i bought the lightning! man does that huffer sing. take your best shot.vbg must be nice to have that kind of money lying around. good luck with it. thanks it seems like it will prove to be a sorta practical toy. money never really lies around just sold a couple of trucks and bought one. the friggin temp sensor goes before the cooler. bfg if you say so. did this information come from the people who rebuilt your trans or is it a personal opinion it came from dtt as well as the rebuilder. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : jerry

tbone wrote if the manufacturer and the rebuilder say to do it that way ill believe it. i would still like to know if their is a specific reason yes i know that the fluid is hotter there or if it is just an expert opinion. the reason is because if you really want to know what the transmission is doing that is the place to monitor. if the sensor is in the pan it allows you to monitor the temperature but by the time oil in the pan reaches the critical point the temperature in the converter/transmission has past that point and damage has already been done however slight it may be. over time this could cause premature failure of the transmission. for example if you tow a heavy load such as a fifth wheel and you are on a steep incline you could get a spike of very high temperature of the fluid and never know it from the pan sensor as it may have only lasted for 4-5 minutes give or take. if you see that rapid rise in temperature you have the option of slowing down changing gears or pulling over. same applies to the turbo egt sensor as to pre or post turbo. about 300-400 degrees difference between the two and the two locations are only about 10 inches apart. personally i see no reason to add a sensor to the pan as there is already one built in that will put you in limp mode if a critical point is reached so i would want it in the line from the transmission to the cooler so i could take action before that point is reached. jerry .

From : tbone

tbone wrote if the manufacturer and the rebuilder say to do it that way ill believe it. i would still like to know if their is a specific reason yes i know that the fluid is hotter there or if it is just an expert opinion. the reason is because if you really want to know what the transmission is doing that is the place to monitor. if the sensor is in the pan it allows you to monitor the temperature but by the time oil in the pan reaches the critical point the temperature in the converter/transmission has past that point and damage has already been done however slight it may be. over time this could cause premature failure of the transmission. for example if you tow a heavy load such as a fifth wheel and you are on a steep incline you could get a spike of very high temperature of the fluid and never know it from the pan sensor as it may have only lasted for 4-5 minutes give or take. if you see that rapid rise in temperature you have the option of slowing down changing gears or pulling over. same applies to the turbo egt sensor as to pre or post turbo. about 300-400 degrees difference between the two and the two locations are only about 10 inches apart. personally i see no reason to add a sensor to the pan as there is already one built in that will put you in limp mode if a critical point is reached so i would want it in the line from the transmission to the cooler so i could take action before that point is reached. im impressed good answer thanks jerry. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

i dont think youre gonna get an answer to that...... i have answered that question many times already. i have worked on a few but i have never rebuilt one. most architects that design skyscrapers havent actually built one either. does that mean that they dont know understand the structure denny ya know most folks here usually offer thoughts on stuff they are experienced in or have experience with or have done themselves. a lot own dodge trucks some have owned cummins engines in dodge trucks some have been involved in racin some do tractor pulls some shoot some plow snow some work at dealerships some own repair shops some build those catapults some pull big assed trailers some pull smaller trailers some do ac some have decades in the automotive or related fields and the list goes on and on. that is where the answers come from. that doesnt make them any more right or wrong than anyone else. funny thing is that it really doesnt matter what people actually know or have actually done your going to believe what you want to regardless of the truth or lie. for the most part it becomes real clear real soon when people are spouting off and dont have a glimmer of a clue about the subject. it would be hard to accuse me of that since the discussions i wind up in seldom stay an any particular subject - then there are those who read out of a fsm or a haynes and become overnight experts in everything. most can tell the difference right away. influenced completely by your opinion. id much rather hear from somebody that has practical experience in a subject. a fsm will only take you so far and at times they lag behind real world stuff. fair enough but just because i sometimes sound like that i am usually not reading from it. even in this thread i knew that the regulator was not a significant source of heat and the type of regulator that it had to be long before going to the manual to disprove the typical bs but you can bet that i have it now. hell i dont even have a dodge right now. but i figure i can still pick up something here that will be of use. oh for you blind loyalty folksg i bought the lightning! man does that huffer sing. take your best shot.vbg must be nice to have that kind of money lying around. good luck with it. thanks it seems like it will prove to be a sorta practical toy. money never really lies around just sold a couple of trucks and bought one. i forgot about that. so how fast is it and how does it compare to the vette the friggin temp sensor goes before the cooler. bfg if you say so. did this information come from the people who rebuilt your trans or is it a personal opinion it came from dtt as well as the rebuilder. if the manufacturer and the rebuilder say to do it that way ill believe it. i would still like to know if their is a specific reason yes i know that the fluid is hotter there or if it is just an expert opinion. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : roy

i dont think youre gonna get an answer to that...... i have answered that question many times already. i have worked on a few but i have never rebuilt one. most architects that design skyscrapers havent actually built one either. does that mean that they dont know understand the structure denny ya know most folks here usually offer thoughts on stuff they are experienced in or have experience with or have done themselves. a lot own dodge trucks some have owned cummins engines in dodge trucks some have been involved in racin some do tractor pulls some shoot some plow snow some work at dealerships some own repair shops some build those catapults some pull big assed trailers some pull smaller trailers some do ac some have decades in the automotive or related fields and the list goes on and on. that is where the answers come from. that doesnt make them any more right or wrong than anyone else. funny thing is that it really doesnt matter what people actually know or have actually done your going to believe what you want to regardless of the truth or lie. for the most part it becomes real clear real soon when people are spouting off and dont have a glimmer of a clue about the subject. it would be hard to accuse me of that since the discussions i wind up in seldom stay an any particular subject - i wonder why that is. then there are those who read out of a fsm or a haynes and become overnight experts in everything. most can tell the difference right away. influenced completely by your opinion. id much rather hear from somebody that has practical experience in a subject. a fsm will only take you so far and at times they lag behind real world stuff. fair enough but just because i sometimes sound like that i am usually not reading from it. even in this thread i knew that the regulator was not a significant source of heat and the type of regulator that it had to be long before going to the manual to disprove the typical bs but you can bet that i have it now. hell i dont even have a dodge right now. but i figure i can still pick up something here that will be of use. oh for you blind loyalty folksg i bought the lightning! man does that huffer sing. take your best shot.vbg must be nice to have that kind of money lying around. good luck with it. thanks it seems like it will prove to be a sorta practical toy. money never really lies around just sold a couple of trucks and bought one. i forgot about that. so how fast is it and how does it compare to the vette stock it should be at 148mph. ive had it to 135mph. quarter mile depending on driver weather altitude mid 12s so say the time slips ive seen posted. compared to the z06 165+top speed mid 11s with a decent tire. ones a truck one is 1000lbs lighter so there is no comparison regards handling. the z06 you kinda put on the lightning you climb into. two very different vehicles. the friggin temp sensor goes before the cooler. bfg if you say so. did this information come from the people who rebuilt your trans or is it a personal opinion it came from dtt as well as the rebuilder. if the manufacturer and the rebuilder say to do it that way ill believe it. i would still like to know if their is a specific reason yes i know that the fluid is hotter there or if it is just an expert opinion. tell ya what try this www.dieseltrans.com get the phone # or write and ask for bill k. if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : max340

it would be hard to accuse me of that since the discussions i wind up in seldom stay an any particular subject - mainly because you redirect them as soon as the going gets rough for you. i would still like to know if their is a specific reason yes i know that the fluid is hotter there or if it is just an expert opinion. um the specific reason is because the fluid is at its hottest there. typically transmission parts are made from metal and thus can withstand a higher temp than the fluid so measuring the fluid at its hottest is a better indicator of how hot the fluid is. obviously even when faced with the obvious you would like to have a reason why its obvious or you wont believe it. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : roy

tbone wrote if the manufacturer and the rebuilder say to do it that way ill believe it. i would still like to know if their is a specific reason yes i know that the fluid is hotter there or if it is just an expert opinion. the reason is because if you really want to know what the transmission is doing that is the place to monitor. if the sensor is in the pan it allows you to monitor the temperature but by the time oil in the pan reaches the critical point the temperature in the converter/transmission has past that point and damage has already been done however slight it may be. over time this could cause premature failure of the transmission. for example if you tow a heavy load such as a fifth wheel and you are on a steep incline you could get a spike of very high temperature of the fluid and never know it from the pan sensor as it may have only lasted for 4-5 minutes give or take. if you see that rapid rise in temperature you have the option of slowing down changing gears or pulling over. same applies to the turbo egt sensor as to pre or post turbo. about 300-400 degrees difference between the two and the two locations are only about 10 inches apart. personally i see no reason to add a sensor to the pan as there is already one built in that will put you in limp mode if a critical point is reached so i would want it in the line from the transmission to the cooler so i could take action before that point is reached. im impressed good answer thanks jerry. am i missing something here. that answer was given in different forms a couple of times in this thread. agreed jerrys answer went into the whys more deeply and he threw in the pyro as a further example as well. i guess ya have to go into a more detailed and lengthy answer to keep you happy or at least quiet.vbg roy .

From : the guy

on sat 17 apr 2004 105912 -0400 roy roy@home.net wrote tbone wrote if the manufacturer and the rebuilder say to do it that way ill believe it. i would still like to know if their is a specific reason yes i know that the fluid is hotter there or if it is just an expert opinion. the reason is because if you really want to know what the transmission is doing that is the place to monitor. if the sensor is in the pan it allows you to monitor the temperature but by the time oil in the pan reaches the critical point the temperature in the converter/transmission has past that point and damage has already been done however slight it may be. over time this could cause premature failure of the transmission. for example if you tow a heavy load such as a fifth wheel and you are on a steep incline you could get a spike of very high temperature of the fluid and never know it from the pan sensor as it may have only lasted for 4-5 minutes give or take. if you see that rapid rise in temperature you have the option of slowing down changing gears or pulling over. same applies to the turbo egt sensor as to pre or post turbo. about 300-400 degrees difference between the two and the two locations are only about 10 inches apart. personally i see no reason to add a sensor to the pan as there is already one built in that will put you in limp mode if a critical point is reached so i would want it in the line from the transmission to the cooler so i could take action before that point is reached. im impressed good answer thanks jerry. am i missing something here. that answer was given in different forms a couple of times in this thread. agreed jerrys answer went into the whys more deeply and he threw in the pyro as a further example as well. i guess ya have to go into a more detailed and lengthy answer to keep you happy or at least quiet.vbg roy yeah i agree. roy should ge the credit for the answer not jerry. waaa. .

From : max340

i have answered that question many times already. i have worked on a few but i have never rebuilt one. then you couldnt possibly know about the passages compared to rhe schematic. most architects that design skyscrapers havent actually built one either. does that mean that they dont know understand the structure very poor analogy. to make it applicable you would have to design an automatic transmission but not build it. you couldnt even attempt such a task with your logic. your going to believe what you want to regardless of the truth or lie. yup and what you believe tells a lot about what sort of person you are. the whole wolrd tells you that you are wrong about ats but yuo continue to delude yourself. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : max340

f the fluid in the pan does not move how does it get into the pump pump suction ever hear of it really perhaps you had better look again. look above the regulator at the manual valve and notice that tee connection between the regulator input and the manual valve. it realy must suck to be you about now. not really see you forgot about the line that comes back from the manual valve to the regulator. you also forgot that the first second and fourth point that the fluid can affect anything is the regulator. that means that not only does the fluid flow through or past the regulator but that the regulator caps the flow so that it is redirected to the manual valve. if the regulator was not there to regulate flow in the first second and fourth branches of the regulator feed the third branch to the manual valve would not get any pressure at all. now if you actually look at the valvebody youll find that the pump flow has to go *through* the first and second points to get to the manual valve. but hey you know it all by looking at a schematic right lol ever looked at the schematic how about the valvebody take out that regulator and there is no resistance to flow.... right back to the pan. only in your moronic little world. great comeback in lieu of facts. do you mean like your all fluid goes through the regulator bs. the simple fact is that the return port that goes back to the pan is only used by the regulator and would be removed as well. without it the fluid would not be able to go directly back to the pan. well since you obviously think you can run a hydraulic system without a regulator or any of its passages youve sealed your fate on this issue. the two regulators both work the same way and all of the fluid does not go through the regulator or their would be nothing to go into the valve body except the return port that is. wrong. take the valvebody out of your truck and look at it if you think im wrong. the regulator on an at is never closed. but then you would know that if you had a clue. never never. if you think a spool type regulator valve with eight seperate valve cavities is simply open or closed you havent a clue. roflmao that would indicate that the entire transmission has no resistance that indicates nothing of the sort. but you are so deep in your own spin you dont know which way to go ill sit back and laugh. lol when exactly is 1500 rpm close to idle. since the same time 6000rpm is not close to idle. you do know that this is a variable regulator and both can and is set to different pressures depending on various conditions such as what gear it is in or set to dont you the only different condition is reverse. in all other conditions gear selection throttle position and speed the regulator functions exactly the same. just trying to unspin your web that you magically deleted. no i magically left out the crap you keep repeating thats been proven wrong to everyone but you. do you remember saying that if you were proven wrong youd accept and admit it i do. but you obviously dont. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : max340

resorting to grammer correction now i wouldnt have to if youd use it correctly to begin with. you cannot refer to two different subjects as it in a single sentence. as such i clarified your statement and proved it false. remove as in design without it you cannot run hydraulics without regulation. but even if you just removed it and left a gaping hole there would be no pressure whatsoever. if you removed the return passage that serves no purpose without the regulator what return passage you would still get no pressure drop lol a fluid can be compressed but it is so little that it is difficult to measure. but ill bet they use psi and guages dont they a pump applies a force to the fluid to move it and that force is pressure. nope its flow. take a course in basic hydraulics and theyll tell you that. of course youll argue with the instructor for days on end but hey thats up to you. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : max340

im impressed good answer thanks jerry. hell jerry puts on a recap of what we all said to begin with and now ya believe him thats funny. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : tbone

resorting to grammer correction now i wouldnt have to if youd use it correctly to begin with. you cannot refer to two different subjects as it in a single sentence. as such i clarified your statement and proved it false. while you may have clarified it you hardly proved it wrong. remove as in design without it you cannot run hydraulics without regulation. nice spin maxi. first of all you certianly can although it would be stupid and i never suggested that you should. and the reason that you shouldnt is that the pressure could get way too high without it. but even if you just removed it and left a gaping hole there would be no pressure whatsoever. w r o n g if you removed the return passage that serves no purpose without the regulator what return passage lol that would be port 3 on the bottom of the regulator. if you were to plug that port the pressure would climb to just about pump pressure and the regulator would cease to function. you really need to learn how to read those diagrams. a fluid can be compressed but it is so little that it is difficult to measure. but ill bet they use psi and guages dont they since compression is related to volume i dont think so. it is not a matter of how much pressure it takes to many things effect that but rather how much it can actually be compressed. a pump applies a force to the fluid to move it and that force is pressure. nope its flow. there has to be a force to create flow and unless you are in a frictionless enviornment it takes some force to maintain it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

i have answered that question many times already. i have worked on a few but i have never rebuilt one. then you couldnt possibly know about the passages compared to rhe schematic. unless you are now saying that the they are lying in the schematic you just dont have a clue about either one. most architects that design skyscrapers havent actually built one either. does that mean that they dont know understand the structure very poor analogy. to make it applicable you would have to design an automatic transmission but not build it. you couldnt even attempt such a task with your logic. lol only with your typical on/off mentality. your going to believe what you want to regardless of the truth or lie. yup and what you believe tells a lot about what sort of person you are. the whole wolrd tells you that you are wrong about ats but yuo continue to delude yourself. the whole world huh. since when are you and gary the entire world and he ran away only to attack with childish insults in another post. i guess that shows what kind of man he is and that sorta makes the whole world you. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

f the fluid in the pan does not move how does it get into the pump pump suction ever hear of it well if the suction is causing the fluid to move which it does then there must be flow in the pan after all huh max. really perhaps you had better look again. look above the regulator at the manual valve and notice that tee connection between the regulator input and the manual valve. it realy must suck to be you about now. not really see you forgot about the line that comes back from the manual valve to the regulator. no i didnt. that line that comes back is only used for regulator pressure control. you also forgot that the first second and fourth point that the fluid can affect anything is the regulator. i guess that you are looking at the top of the regulator in the diagram and those first 4 points are there to control the regulator output and the only one of those ports that the fluid flows through is the 4th one from the left to feed the booster valve. do you know why they did it that way. that means that not only does the fluid flow through or past the regulator but that the regulator caps the flow so that it is redirected to the manual valve. it means no such thing as it is obvious that you dont have a clue as to how it actually works. if the regulator was not there to regulate flow in the first second and fourth branches of the regulator feed the third branch to the manual valve would not get any pressure at all. roflmao you truly dont have a clue. the third and second branch to the manual valve is actually from the manual valve and is used to control the regulator set point. so is the forth one and the first one on the bottom as well. the manual control valve is fed directly by the pump and the regulator controls the pressure on that line and the rest of the transmission by diverting some of the fluid back to the pan. that is why it is on that same feed line port 5 of the regulator. if you actually were able to read the diagram the fluid from the pump goes directly to port 1 no output port 4 feeds the boost valve no direct regulation port 5 the actual regulator input and the manual valve which is on the same feed line as port 5 of the regulator. now if you actually look at the valvebody youll find that the pump flow has to go *through* the first and second points to get to the manual valve. but hey you know it all by looking at a schematic right if you actually knew how to read it you would see that there is no flow on the first second or third ports on the regulator to anywhere. those ports are used to control the regulator along with port 4 and port 1 on the bottom. do you mean like your all fluid goes through the regulator bs. the simple fact is that the return port that goes back to the pan is only used by the regulator and would be removed as well. without it the fluid would not be able to go directly back to the pan. well since you obviously think you can run a hydraulic system without a regulator or any of its passages youve sealed your fate on this issue. i never said that i said that removing the regulator from the circuit would cause a significant pressure increase which is why it exists in the first place. the two regulators both work the same way and all of the fluid does not go through the regulator or their would be nothing to go into the valve body except the return port that is. wrong. take the valvebody out of your truck and look at it if you think im wrong. you cant even follow a simple schematic and you think that im going to trust you on the actual valve body lol. the regulator on an at is never closed. but then you would know that if you had a clue. never never. if you think a spool type regulator valve with eight seperate valve cavities is simply open or closed you havent a clue. i never said that either but most of those cavities are for control not flow. roflmao that would indicate that the entire transmission has no resistance that indicates nothing of the sort. but you are so deep in your own spin you dont know which way to go ill sit back and laugh. cut cut snip snip oh what a relief it is lol. you did say that the regulator was the only source of pressure although i see that you quickly cut it away. it wont be long before the post in this thread from you will be getting very short. lol when exactly is 1500 rpm close to idle. since the same time 6000rpm is not close to idle. yet another spin how unexpected -- not --! you do know that this is a variable regulator and both can and is set to different pressures depending on various conditions such as what gear it is in or set to dont you the only different condition is reverse. in all other conditions gear selection throttle position and speed the regulator functions exactly the same. really it doesnt look that way in park or od either. ye

From : tbone

it would be hard to accuse me of that since the discussions i wind up in seldom stay an any particular subject - mainly because you redirect them as soon as the going gets rough for you. i think that a review of this thread will show who that one really is with your deletions and spin. i would still like to know if their is a specific reason yes i know that the fluid is hotter there or if it is just an expert opinion. um the specific reason is because the fluid is at its hottest there. typically transmission parts are made from metal and thus can withstand a higher temp than the fluid so measuring the fluid at its hottest is a better indicator of how hot the fluid is. and how hot is the fluid allowed to get -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : max340

lol that would be port 3 on the bottom of the regulator. actually if you knew hydraulics you would know that the spool valve is numbered in lands from the spring end. the port you are referring to is between land #2 which has an annular groove and land #3. this port is a dump to the pan. a return line would take the fluid to another valve or a servo a piston or the pump. port three does what chrysler terms exhaust or vent to the pan. this is not a return line. hint look at the fsm and youll find that the regulator valve lands are actually numbered so you know which one you are talking about. if you were to plug that port the pressure would climb to just about pump pressure and the regulator would cease to function. false. 1 the pump has no pressure. 2 the the flow from the pump would force the regulator valve to fully compress the spring venting the the resulting pressure past land #1to the lu switch valve. from there it would vent through the front clutch lube circuit or through the convertor and to the cooler and then through the od lube circuit. the resulting loss of pressure would allow the regulator to function although not as well as having a direct vent or exhaust to the pan. hint the schematic shows all this. since compression is related to volume i dont think so. it is not a matter of how much pressure it takes to many things effect that but rather how much it can actually be compressed. but you are the self proclaimed expert who loves diversions why not explain it max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : max340

well if the suction is causing the fluid to move which it does then there must be flow in the pan after all huh max. nope. there is only suction at the pump inlet not in the entire pan. not really see you forgot about the line that comes back from the manual valve to the regulator. no i didnt. that line that comes back is only used for regulator pressure control. lol exactly. the fluid has to flow through the regulator. the third and second branch to the manual valve is actually from the manual valve yup i said that. the manual control valve is fed directly by the pump nope. if it were fed directly the schematic would show the line going directly to the manual valve instead it shows a branch from the feed to the regulator valve. and the regulator controls the pressure on that line and the rest of the transmission oh so the regulator does have the fluid flowing through it since it controls the pressure on a line that goes directly to the manual valve by diverting some of the fluid back to the pan. but you said it was a return line to the pump if you actually were able to read the diagram if you were actually able to read the diagram you would know the numbering starts at the spring end of the spool valve. he fluid from the pump goes directly to port 1 nope goes directly to the annular between lands 1 and 2. port 4 feeds the boost valve no direct regulation nope goes directly to the annular between lands 1 and 2. if you actually knew how to read it you would see that there is no flow on the first second or third ports on the regulator to anywhere. but you just said the flow went directly to port 1 and now you are claiming there is no flow there i never said that i said that removing the regulator from the circuit would cause a significant pressure increase which is why it exists in the first place. ok so if removing the regulator would cause a significant pressure increase in the valvebody the regulator must offer some resistance to the flow in order to protect the valvebody. you do remember gary and i telling you that the regulator was a resistance to flow dont you you cant even follow a simple schematic and you think that im going to trust you on the actual valve body lol. no youre going to trust you on looking at your valvebody. or maybe you are afraid you might find the truth in there never. if you think a spool type regulator valve with eight seperate valve cavities is simply open or closed you havent a clue. i never said that either but most of those cavities are for control not flow. bullshit. youve repeatedly claimed that until pressure hits the regulator setting the regulator has no effect and is closed. it wont be long before the post in this thread from you will be getting very short. the reason for that is because you keep repeating the same bullshit. no need to reply to the same garbage all the time. if i am proven wrong then i will but just because you say that i am doesnt make it so. great so youll be around for all of us to laugh at for a while yet max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : mike simmons

no diapers yet! the kiddo is in pa and we are here in mo. where in pa avis pa which is close to lock haven which is close to williamsport which is close to harrisburg mike max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : max340

cool! we will be there may 7-11 so when we get closer to the date email me with your phone # and i will call you. excellent. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : tbone

because he did it without the insults that are so common with you and the transbutcher and gave an actual reason that was believable. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving im impressed good answer thanks jerry. hell jerry puts on a recap of what we all said to begin with and now ya believe him thats funny. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : tbone

lol that would be port 3 on the bottom of the regulator. actually if you knew hydraulics you would know that the spool valve is numbered in lands from the spring end. the port you are referring to is between land #2 which has an annular groove and land #3. this port is a dump to the pan. a return line would take the fluid to another valve or a servo a piston or the pump. port three does what chrysler terms exhaust or vent to the pan. this is not a return line. hint look at the fsm and youll find that the regulator valve lands are actually numbered so you know which one you are talking about. wrong. i have the 97 manual please indicate the page number that there lands are numbered on. if you were to plug that port the pressure would climb to just about pump pressure and the regulator would cease to function. false. 1 the pump has no pressure. in order for that to be true the pump would need to be perfectly smooth and have a perfect fluid flow and neither one of these conditions are possible with current technology. 2 the the flow from the pump would force the regulator valve to fully compress the spring venting the the resulting pressure past land #1to the lu switch valve. from there it would vent through the front clutch lube circuit or through the convertor and to the cooler and then through the od lube circuit. the resulting loss of pressure would allow the regulator to function although not as well as having a direct vent or exhaust to the pan. lol w r o n g. putting the vehicle into reverse is all the proof i need that you are once again full of shit. notice that in reverse that the front clutch lube circuit converter cooler and line pressure all jump up. how would this be possible if the fluid would just flow through these circuits. the reason that is happens is because the manual valve closes off its two feedback ports to the regulator which reduces the force against the regulator spring and causes it to close off the dump or whatever you care to name it today until sufficient increased pressure forces it open again. if the dump port was blocked off disabling the regulator the pressure would go even higher which demonstrates that the regulator is not a resistance but an increase in the flow when needed and does nothing when not. hint the schematic shows all this. actually all it shows is that yu are wronng and it has been doing that since the beginning. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

well if the suction is causing the fluid to move which it does then there must be flow in the pan after all huh max. nope. there is only suction at the pump inlet not in the entire pan. lol could you possibly be any more ignorant if the suction at the inlet actually causes fluid to be pulled from the pan then there is flow there. if the laws of physics work in maxworld that displaced fluid creates a void that will be filled by the rest of the fluid in the pan which is also fluid end of discussion. not really see you forgot about the line that comes back from the manual valve to the regulator. no i didnt. that line that comes back is only used for regulator pressure control. lol exactly. the fluid has to flow through the regulator. you really are an idiot. i see that once again you delete anything that proves you wrong and that is why your posts are getting smaller an smaller. the third and second branch to the manual valve is actually from the manual valve yup i said that. no you didnt and that is why you deleted it again. you said that the fluid flows from the regulator to these ports on the manual valve when it reality it flows from the manual valve to the reguulator and neither one of these ports has any flow-though at all. the manual control valve is fed directly by the pump nope. if it were fed directly the schematic would show the line going directly to the manual valve instead it shows a branch from the feed to the regulator valve. lol if you actually knew how to read it i might believe you but as usual you resort to semantics and spin. there is nothing between the pump and the manual valve except the screen which also blows your everything goed through the regultor bs. and the regulator controls the pressure on that line and the rest of the transmission oh so the regulator does have the fluid flowing through it since it controls the pressure on a line that goes directly to the manual valve that is because the manual valve is connected to the same passage. like i said over and over the regulator controls the pressure by passing a portion of the flow back to the pan and it does so on the main line. it does not create pressure it relieves pressure and that is all that it can do. by diverting some of the fluid back to the pan. but you said it was a return line to the pump actually you were the one whining that it sent ot to the pan and in the schematic that they provide it is somewhat unclear and really doesnt matter so why argue about it but in the schematic for the intrepid it clearly is a return line to the pump. if you actually were able to read the diagram if you were actually able to read the diagram you would know the numbering starts at the spring end of the spool valve. really and what indication on the diagram states that he fluid from the pump goes directly to port 1 nope goes directly to the annular between lands 1 and 2. getting desperate are we looking in the book for new terns so that you can attempt to baffle us with your bullshit since you totally failed to dazzle us with your brilliance. any way that you want to spin it the actual regulation comes from the top extreem right same passage that feeds the manual valve regardless how you want to name it. port 4 feeds the boost valve no direct regulation nope goes directly to the annular between lands 1 and 2. w r o n g. if you actually knew how to read it you would see that there is no flow on the first second or third ports on the regulator to anywhere. but you just said the flow went directly to port 1 and now you are claiming there is no flow there yawn when you get like this it is obvious that you know that you are wrong and now can do nothing but spin. i never said that i said that removing the regulator from the circuit would cause a significant pressure increase which is why it exists in the first place. ok so if removing the regulator would cause a significant pressure increase in the valvebody the regulator must offer some resistance to the flow in order to protect the valvebody. but you and transbutcher both say that resistance is the only cause of pressure so if the regulator is a source of resistance then it would be a source of pressure and work to harm the valve body. the only way to lower pressure would be to increase flow and that is exactly what the regulator does even by you and garys argument. thanks maxi. you do remember gary and i telling you that the regulator was a resistance to flow dont you i sure do and want to thank the both of you for your help in once again proving me correct. you cant even follow a simple schematic and you think that im going to trust you on the actual valve body lol. no youre going to trust you on looking at your valvebody. what for unless you are now claiming the schematic to be invalid wh

From : max340

because he did it without the insults that are so common with you feel free to post a list of my insults to your person as proof of what you claim. gave an actual reason that was believable. which was the same reason you had been given at the beginning of the debate. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : tom lawrence

wrong. i have the 97 manual please indicate the page number that there lands are numbered on. has it ever occured to you that this is a dodge truck ng and youve got your nose stuck inside an intrepid fsm .

From : max340

if the suction at the inlet actually causes fluid to be pulled from the pan then there is flow there. you dont know hydraulics too well do you since most of the fluid in the pan is standing its said to be a reservoir not a return passage as you claim. why your posts are getting smaller an smaller. my posts are getting smaller because its easiuer to watch you make an idiot of yourself than actually take the effort to type something in reply to all your silly statements. no you didnt and that is why you deleted it again. horseshit. you said that the fluid flows from the regulator to these ports on the manual valve when it reality it flows from the manual valve to the reguulator i said it flowed from the regulator to the manual valve and back to these ports. go back and read what i said. and neither one of these ports has any flow-though at all. which essentially proves exactly what ive been saying. lol if you actually knew how to read it i might believe you but as usual you resort to semantics and spin. nope no semantics or spin just facts. but since we already know you are not a hydraulic expert and your knowledge of schematics is poor at best youll resort to this as an excuse to avoid the truth. there is nothing between the pump and the manual valve except the screen which also blows your everything goed through the regultor bs. have you pulled the vb out of your truck yet that is because the manual valve is connected to the same passage. connected and flowing directly are not the same thing especially in hydralic controls. like i said over and over the regulator controls the pressure by passing a portion of the flow back to the pan and it does so on the main line. yup it sure does thats why all of the fluid must pass the regulator. it does not create pressure it relieves pressure and that is all that it can do. wrong. as its name implies it regulates pressure. thus it both creates and relieves pressure as it regulates fluid pressure and flow. however in order to relieve pressure it has to create that pressure first. but you said it was a return line to the pump actually you were the one whining that it sent ot to the pan and in the schematic that they provide it is somewhat unclear huh and really doesnt matter so why argue about it like hell it doesnt matter what if it goes somewhere other than the pan and yeah its very clear it dumps to the pan. the only people who think otherwise have never pulled the pan to look and have never learned hydraulics. but in the schematic for the intrepid it clearly is a return line to the pump. horseshit. all mopar ats have a reservoir in which the filter is immersed. hydraulic systems depend on a reservoir of fluid to feed the pump. ats are no exception. the reason for this is cooling and a place for any air pockets to bubble out as well as a place for fluid to return *without* putting pressure on the pump infeed. if you were actually able to read the diagram you would know the numbering starts at the spring end of the spool valve. really and what indication on the diagram states that the indication is a good basis in hydraulic knowledge. anyone who deals with hydraulics knows this. but for those of you who dont have that all you need do is crack open the fsm and look at the diagram. page 21-329 of the 00 fsm clearly shows the lands numbered from the spring end to the pressure end. nope goes directly to the annular between lands 1 and 2. getting desperate are we not at all. simply telling you exactly where you are wrong. looking in the book for new terns terns small sea birds so that you can attempt to baffle us with your bullshit since you totally failed to dazzle us with your brilliance. us hell everyone here has commented on your lack of hydraulic knowledge except guy and all he does is whine about everyone but you so no surprise there. any way that you want to spin it the actual regulation comes from the top extreem right same passage that feeds the manual valve regardless how you want to name it. um no...... regulation comes from the spring pressure versus the hydraulic pressure which are on opposite ends of the regulator spool valve which is a balance valve befitting of its job. see if the regulation came from where you claim the hydraulic pressure would be pushing the same direction as the spring.... and it just doesnt do that. port 4 feeds the boost valve no direct regulation nope goes directly to the annular between lands 1 and 2. w r o n g. better check your numbering sequence. but you and transbutcher both say that resistance is the only cause of pressure so if the regulator is a source of resistance then it would be a source of pressure and work to harm the valve body. lol now yer chasin yer tail go tbone go!!!!! what for unless you are now claiming the schematic to be invalid wh

From : max340

hint look at the fsm and youll find that the regulator valve lands are actually numbered so you know which one you are talking about. wrong. i have the 97 manual please indicate the page number that there lands are numbered on. right! the 00fsm schematic is clearly numbered on page 21-329 and 21-33 and the text references these numbers. but anyone who has actually learned to read a hydraulic schematic already knows numbering starts at the spring end. in order for that to be true the pump would need to be perfectly smooth and have a perfect fluid flow and neither one of these conditions are possible with current technology. wrong. the condition is called pump without anything else. study hydraulics damn you want to know why my posts get shorter its because i get tired of asking you to actually read the fucking material you claim to be an expert on and you would know that pumps cannot create pressure by themselves. they can only create flow. you keep wanting to talk about inside the pump but no hydraulic system exists entirely inside the pump. outside the pump is flow. only flow. there is no pressure until something stops the flow like a valve servo piston or plug. lol w r o n g. putting the vehicle into reverse is all the proof i need that you are once again full of shit. notice that in reverse that the front clutch lube circuit converter cooler and line pressure all jump up. how would this be possible if the fluid would just flow through these circuits. more flow through the same size passages increases resistance and thus pressure rises. pretty simple really. try an education in hydraulics. the reason that is happens is because the manual valve closes off its two feedback ports to the regulator which reduces the force against the regulator spring if you care to read the schematic youd realize that one of those feedback ports has no effect on the valve. further youd realize that the two remaining hydraulic feeds to the regulation side are more than enough to regulate the pressure at roughly twice the psi as a forward gear. if the dump port was blocked off disabling the regulator the pressure would go even higher which demonstrates that the regulator is not a resistance but an increase in the flow when needed and does nothing when not. does nothing well open mouth an insert foot! dude you are toast. and ill gues that you forgot about the circuits i described before detailing where the pressure would go in lieu of a the proper dump. hint the schematic shows all this. actually all it shows is that yu are wronng and it has been doing that since the beginning. lol ok....... btw with your seriously flawed assumptions that continue to grow bigger youll notice a marked decrease in the size of my posts. since its again become pointless to show your flawed reasoning and more of a merciful release of your ego before it is squashed ill let you make an ass of yourself by yourself. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : tbone

wrong. i have the 97 manual please indicate the page number that there lands are numbered on. has it ever occured to you that this is a dodge truck ng and youve got your nose stuck inside an intrepid fsm sorry tom but the intrepid is a 98 and i have already said that i switched to the 97 truck manual. either way maxi makes it sound like they all list the numbers and i want to know exactly what page since i cant seem to find it in either one. do you know -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

if the suction at the inlet actually causes fluid to be pulled from the pan then there is flow there. you dont know hydraulics too well do you since most of the fluid in the pan is standing its said to be a reservoir not a return passage as you claim. and simple physics and fluid displacement seem to be two areas that you know nothing about. if fluid is being sucked out of the pan by the pump and fluid is being returned to it from multiple areas then it is flowing now give it up already your wrong. why your posts are getting smaller an smaller. my posts are getting smaller because its easiuer to watch you make an idiot of yourself than actually take the effort to type something in reply to all your silly statements. that is what you want people to believe but the more threads that you repeat the same actions in the easier it is to spot the truth. you said that the fluid flows from the regulator to these ports on the manual valve when it reality it flows from the manual valve to the reguulator i said it flowed from the regulator to the manual valve and back to these ports. go back and read what i said. which is incorrect as it flows from the pump to the manual valve and from the manual valve to two control ports on the regulator. and neither one of these ports has any flow-though at all. which essentially proves exactly what ive been saying. it proves nothing. lol if you actually knew how to read it i might believe you but as usual you resort to semantics and spin. nope no semantics or spin just facts. but since we already know you are not a hydraulic expert and your knowledge of schematics is poor at best youll resort to this as an excuse to avoid the truth. lol sure max. there is nothing between the pump and the manual valve except the screen which also blows your everything goed through the regultor bs. have you pulled the vb out of your truck yet where is it exactly on a 5 speed that is because the manual valve is connected to the same passage. connected and flowing directly are not the same thing especially in hydralic controls. lol more semantics. since there is nothing between the pump and the manual valve except the screen it appears to be direct enough to me. like i said over and over the regulator controls the pressure by passing a portion of the flow back to the pan and it does so on the main line. yup it sure does thats why all of the fluid must pass the regulator. and that would be incorrect. the fluid that goes to the manual valve does not pass the regulator and yet it is regulated.. i guess that you are now attempting a spin to make it look like you didnt say all fluid must pass through the regulator. it does not create pressure it relieves pressure and that is all that it can do. wrong. as its name implies it regulates pressure. thus it both creates and relieves pressure as it regulates fluid pressure and flow. however in order to relieve pressure it has to create that pressure first. lol you have a distorted way of thinking that is of course incorrect. it could only create pressure if the pressure would be lower without it being there and we both know that is not the case. but you said it was a return line to the pump actually you were the one whining that it sent ot to the pan and in the schematic that they provide it is somewhat unclear huh i dont know what the 2000 fsm shows you but in the 97 it indicates that the return is also after the filter which makes perfect sense. and really doesnt matter so why argue about it like hell it doesnt matter what if it goes somewhere other than the pan and yeah its very clear it dumps to the pan. the only people who think otherwise have never pulled the pan to look and have never learned hydraulics. lol you sound very much like the typical cartoon loser when you keep making claims like this. it doesnt matter if it returns to the pan or the pump input since the pump input is also drawing from the pan. in fact it makes more sense to send it directly back to the pump as it has already been filtered and there is no advantage to filtering it again before it is even used. the intrepid fsm clearly shows it returning to the pump input after the filter. i guess that the people who designed that transmission dont know anything about hydraulics either. but in the schematic for the intrepid it clearly is a return line to the pump. horseshit. all mopar ats have a reservoir in which the filter is immersed. lol so what. hydraulic systems depend on a reservoir of fluid to feed the pump. ats are no exception. the reason for this is cooling and a place for any air pockets to bubble out while all of this is true excess fluid can be returned directly to the pump input without causing any problems. as well as a place for fluid to return *without* putting pressure on

From : tbone

sorry tom but the intrepid is a 98 and i have already said that i switched to the 97 truck manual. either way maxi makes it sound like they all list the numbers yep... no they dont. and i want to know exactly what page since i cant seem to find it in either one. do you know yes i do. look at the valve body section. my manual clearly labels all four lands with #1 being closest to the spring just like max said... go figure. have a look at the attached picture if you dont believe anyone. i never said that he was wrong in that. what year is your manual and if it is a 97 what page are you on. this looks like it came from the flow schematic in park and besides the slight change in shape of the booster valve feed line mine has no numbers. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

hint look at the fsm and youll find that the regulator valve lands are actually numbered so you know which one you are talking about. wrong. i have the 97 manual please indicate the page number that there lands are numbered on. right! the 00fsm schematic is clearly numbered on page 21-329 and 21-33 and the text references these numbers. but anyone who has actually learned to read a hydraulic schematic already knows numbering starts at the spring end. well the 97 manual does not have them numbered and these pages have nothing to do with the regulator in this manual as im sure we both expected. in order for that to be true the pump would need to be perfectly smooth and have a perfect fluid flow and neither one of these conditions are possible with current technology. wrong. the condition is called pump without anything else. that is called an ideal condition and is used for simplification only. that same theory would also say that the filter and regultor do not produce heat but since you want to say that they do a pump also produces pressure internally. sorry max but you cant have it both ways. study hydraulics damn you want to know why my posts get shorter its because i g

From : jerry

tbone wrote and any resistance to that flow creates pressure. i dont intend to get involves in this circus but you have stated several time that the pressure is created in the pump....... are you saying that there is no resistance in the pump are you really serious i mean is this question sincere and you dont really know or is it another spin tactic. question ........ if you disconnect the discharge line at the pump any pump what happens to pressure where is the resistance to the fluid think about it.... jerry .

From : tbone

tbone wrote and any resistance to that flow creates pressure. i dont intend to get involves in this circus but you have stated several time that the pressure is created in the pump....... actually no i didnt. what i said was that there is some pressure in the pump created by the flow path and resistance within it. while in the perfect model this does not happen in that same model the filter is not a source of heat either. are you saying that there is no resistance in the pump are you really serious i mean is this question sincere and you dont really know or is it another spin tactic. it is an actual question that i would like him to answer. question ........ if you disconnect the discharge line at the pump any pump what happens to pressure it drops to near zero as it should but if the fluid is shooting out of the outlet there is pressure there to cause that to happen. where is the resistance to the fluid think about it.... lets see the pump inlet pump outlet the casting itself the turbulence created by the gap between the rotor and the case.... yes these are all small amounts and i normally wouldnt consider them but they exist every bit as much as the resistance in the filter. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : jerry

tbone wrote actually no i didnt. what i said was that there is some pressure in the pump created by the flow path and resistance within it. actually yes you have and several times at that......... it drops to near zero as it should but if the fluid is shooting out of the outlet there is pressure there to cause that to happen. it drops to zero period ............. there is no pressure ......... the pump is nothing more than a prime mover. where is the resistance to the fluid think about it.... lets see the pump inlet wrong .......... pump outlet wrong there is no discharge connection so where is the resistance. the casting itself wrong only resistance here would be against the pumps gears and what ever is used to turn those gears not the fluid being discharged. the turbulence created by the gap between the rotor and the case.... see above ...... yes these are all small amounts and i normally wouldnt consider them but they exist every bit as much as the resistance in the filter. but they create zero resistance to the fluid being moved in the context of pump discharge pressure. the pump itself as max has tried to explain to you is nothing more than a prime mover. the force that is creating resistance that translates into pressure is started with the discharge line at the pump and everything down stream which includes discharge line or passage pressure regulator valve body ............. anything and everything starting at the discharge side of the pump. jerry .

From : tbone

tbone wrote actually no i didnt. what i said was that there is some pressure in the pump created by the flow path and resistance within it. actually yes you have and several times at that......... really prove it. it drops to near zero as it should but if the fluid is shooting out of the outlet there is pressure there to cause that to happen. it drops to zero period ............. there is no pressure ......... the pump is nothing more than a prime mover. yawn put a pressure guage in the pump body of a real pump near the output and see what really happens. where is the resistance to the fluid think about it.... lets see the pump inlet wrong .......... here we go with the perfect pump again. pump outlet wrong there is no discharge connection so where is the resistance. the port itself funnels down from the main body jerry. this in itself forms a restriction within the pump. the casting itself wrong only resistance here would be against the pumps gears and what ever is used to turn those gears not the fluid being discharged. lol that is what bearings are for. unless the inside of the pump is machined perfectly smooth and that is impossible there will be resistance to flow and pressure because of it. the turbulence created by the gap between the rotor and the case.... see above ...... only in a perfect world jerry but that would mean that you have a pump with 100% efficiency and such a pump doesnt exist. yes these are all small amounts and i normally wouldnt consider them but they exist every bit as much as the resistance in the filter. but they create zero resistance to the fluid being moved in the context of pump discharge pressure. i thought that you said that a pump has no discharge pressure and again that would indicate 100% efficiency. the pump itself as max has tried to explain to you is nothing more than a prime mover. i never said anything different but when you try to include miniscule amounts of resistnce such as the filter and claim it as a source of heat then those same resistances exist in the pump as well and prime mover or not it does have internal resistance. the force that is creating resistance that translates into pressure is started with the discharge line at the pump and everything down stream which includes discharge line or passage pressure regulator valve body ............. anything and everything starting at the discharge side of the pump. in a perfect world it is assumed that no resistance exists within the prime mover to make the primary concepts easier to learn. the same thing is done in electronics but that doesnt mean that these resistances do not exist. the problem is that in the real world the pump itself is part of the discharge side. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : jerry

tbone wrote really prove it. get serious think im reading back through that garbage you posted this week. you know what you said and guess what so does everyone else. it drops to near zero as it should but if the fluid is shooting out of the outlet there is pressure there to cause that to happen. it drops to zero period ............. there is no pressure ......... the pump is nothing more than a prime mover. yawn put a pressure guage in the pump body of a real pump near the output and see what really happens. were not talking about the pump body but the discharge side of the pump. you know where that is dont you thats the area you been yapping about that pressure is created. btw put a pressure gauge on the pump body and often as not you will find the inner casing to be under a partial vacuum. figure that one out if you can. where is the resistance to the fluid think about it.... lets see the pump inlet wrong .......... here we go with the perfect pump again. nothing perfect about it just common sense....... oops......you dont have any huh. pump outlet wrong there is no discharge connection so where is the resistance. the port itself funnels down from the main body jerry. this in itself forms a restriction within the pump. what port what funnel what restriction .......... doesnt matter about restrictions within the pump all the pump does is move the liquid. any restriction within the pump is not on the liquid but the pump internals. apples to oranges....... the casting itself wrong only resistance here would be against the pumps gears and what ever is used to turn those gears not the fluid being discharged. lol that is what bearings are for. unless the inside of the pump is machined perfectly smooth and that is impossible there will be resistance to flow and pressure because of it. are you that dense ........... there is no flow except at the discharge. put you magic pressure gauge at the discharge flange of the pump with no line hooked up and what is the reading........... hint.....zero. the turbulence created by the gap between the rotor and the case.... see above ...... only in a perfect world jerry but that would mean that you have a pump with 100% efficiency and such a pump doesnt exist. now you are babbling........... yes these are all small amounts and i normally wouldnt consider them but they exist every bit as much as the resistance in the filter. but they create zero resistance to the fluid being moved in the context of pump discharge pressure. i thought that you said that a pump has no discharge pressure and again that would indicate 100% efficiency. because in the transmission there are hookups to the pump discharge which creates the pressure you see. nice spin try but again you are short of the mark. the pump itself as max has tried to explain to you is nothing more than a prime mover. i never said anything different but when you try to include miniscule amounts of resistnce such as the filter and claim it as a source of heat then those same resistances exist in the pump as well and prime mover or not it does have internal resistance. i never said a word about heat or the filter........... trying a new spin here are we........ this is about pressure which you dont seem to have a clue how it is created. like talking to a box of rocks. the force that is creating resistance that translates into pressure is started with the discharge line at the pump and everything down stream which includes discharge line or passage pressure regulator valve body ............. anything and everything starting at the discharge side of the pump. in a perfect world it is assumed that no resistance exists within the prime mover to make the primary concepts easier to learn. the same thing is done in electronics but that doesnt mean that these resistances do not exist. the problem is that in the real world the pump itself is part of the discharge side. here you go with your perfect world....... if there was a perfect world i guess you would understand the basic operation of a pump which you said you were trying to learn about but since as you want to babble about there is no perfect world i guess once again you have proven your real concern is to see if you can continue to string out a long thread with perfect bullshit. in that perfect world you win hands down. in the world of understanding the simple operation of a pump you fail completely. jerry .

From : tom lawrence

okay - lets recap. pieced together from the last several posts we have jerry i dont intend to get involved in this circus but you have stated jerry several times that the pressure is created in the pump....... tbone actually no i didnt. jerry actually yes you have and several times at that......... tbone really prove it. jerry get serious think im reading back through that garbage you jerry posted this week. you know what you said and guess what so jerry does everyone else. tbone iow you did look found what i said realized that you were wrong tbone and are not man enough to admit to it. and then after all that in the same post you then said tbone boy talk about spin. i said that pressure is created inside of the tbone pump learn to read. seems like you proved jerrys case for him... .

From : tbone

i said that there is pressure created inside of the pump not that the pressure is created inside of the pump. of all people in here i thought that you would understand that. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving okay - lets recap. pieced together from the last several posts we have jerry i dont intend to get involved in this circus but you have stated jerry several times that the pressure is created in the pump....... tbone actually no i didnt. jerry actually yes you have and several times at that......... tbone really prove it. jerry get serious think im reading back through that garbage you jerry posted this week. you know what you said and guess what so jerry does everyone else. tbone iow you did look found what i said realized that you were wrong tbone and are not man enough to admit to it. and then after all that in the same post you then said tbone boy talk about spin. i said that pressure is created inside of the tbone pump learn to read. seems like you proved jerrys case for him... .

From : tbone

tbone wrote really prove it. get serious think im reading back through that garbage you posted this week. you know what you said and guess what so does everyone else. iow you did look found what i said realized that you were wrong and are not man enough to admit to it. it drops to near zero as it should but if the fluid is shooting out of the outlet there is pressure there to cause that to happen. it drops to zero period ............. there is no pressure ......... the pump is nothing more than a prime mover. yawn put a pressure guage in the pump body of a real pump near the output and see what really happens. were not talking about the pump body but the discharge side of the pump. you know where that is dont you thats the area you been yapping about that pressure is created. boy talk about spin. i said that pressure is created inside of the pump learn to read. btw put a pressure gauge on the pump body and often as not you will find the inner casing to be under a partial vacuum. lol and what is a vacuum but a negative pressure and where is it inside the pump. where is the resistance to the fluid think about it.... lets see the pump inlet wrong .......... here we go with the perfect pump again. nothing perfect about it just common sense....... oops......you dont have any huh. back to the name calling already pump outlet wrong there is no discharge connection so where is the resistance. the port itself funnels down from the main body jerry. this in itself forms a restriction within the pump. what port what funnel what restriction .......... doesnt matter about restrictions within the pump all the pump does is move the liquid. any restriction within the pump is not on the liquid but the pump internals. lol talk about a lack of common sense. the casting itself wrong only resistance here would be against the pumps gears and what ever is used to turn those gears not the fluid being discharged. lol that is what bearings are for. unless the inside of the pump is machined perfectly smooth and that is impossible there will be resistance to flow and pressure because of it. are you that dense ........... there is no flow except at the discharge. lol now there is no flow except at discharge. tell me then how does the fluid pass through the pump if there is no flow put you magic pressure gauge at the discharge flange of the pump with no line hooked up and what is the reading........... hint.....zero. hint w r o n g!!! the turbulence created by the gap between the rotor and the case.... see above ...... only in a perfect world jerry but that would mean that you have a pump with 100% efficiency and such a pump doesnt exist. now you are babbling........... iow you know that im right and cant spin your way out of it. yes these are all small amounts and i normally wouldnt consider them but they exist every bit as much as the resistance in the filter. but they create zero resistance to the fluid being moved in the context of pump discharge pressure. i thought that you said that a pump has no discharge pressure and again that would indicate 100% efficiency. because in the transmission there are hookups to the pump discharge which creates the pressure you see. nice spin try but again you are short of the mark. as are you. the pump itself as max has tried to explain to you is nothing more than a prime mover. i never said anything different but when you try to include miniscule amounts of resistnce such as the filter and claim it as a source of heat then those same resistances exist in the pump as well and prime mover or not it does have internal resistance. i never said a word about heat or the filter i was talking about my discussion with max and you knew that or you wouldnt have tried to spin it like this. ........... trying a new spin here are we........ na that would be you this is about pressure which you dont seem to have a clue how it is created. like talking to a box of rocks. pot kettle black in both cases. pressure is created when a fluid propelled by some force in motion encounters some type of resistance. if there was no resistance to flow within a pump they should all be at 100% efficiency and any way you try and spin it that is not the case. you really need to look beyond the case model and into reality. the force that is creating resistance that translates into pressure is started with the discharge line at the pump and everything down stream which includes discharge line or passage pressure regulator valve body ............. anything and everything starting at the discharge side of the pump. in a perfect world it is assumed that no resistance exists within the prime mover to make the primary concepts easier to learn. the same thing is

From : max340

get serious think im reading back through that garbage you posted this week. you know what you said and guess what so does everyone else. iow you did look found what i said realized that you were wrong and are not man enough to admit to it. we all know ya said it. several times. were not talking about the pump body but the discharge side of the pump. you know where that is dont you thats the area you been yapping about that pressure is created. boy talk about spin. i said that pressure is created inside of the pump learn to read. yup you said pressure....... btw put a pressure gauge on the pump body and often as not you will find the inner casing to be under a partial vacuum. lol and what is a vacuum but a negative pressure and where is it inside the pump. not negative pressure. nice hole ya got there. are you that dense ........... there is no flow except at the discharge. lol now there is no flow except at discharge. tell me then how does the fluid pass through the pump if there is no flow lol you just dont understand do you put you magic pressure gauge at the discharge flange of the pump with no line hooked up and what is the reading........... hint.....zero. hint w r o n g!!! hint you havent a clue. i was talking about my discussion with max your discussion with me has nothing to do with what jerry said its simply a spin on your part. pot kettle black in both cases. pressure is created when a fluid propelled by some force in motion encounters some type of resistance. bingo. since a pump in and of itself has no resistance at its outlet no pressure exists. if there was no resistance to flow within a pump a pump is 100% resistant to flow. if you shut it off no fluid moves. turn it on and fluid moves. no pressure is created. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : idaspode

on thu 22 apr 2004 060904 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote snip btw put a pressure gauge on the pump body and often as not you will find the inner casing to be under a partial vacuum. lol and what is a vacuum but a negative pressure and where is it inside the pump. pardon this lurkers late entrance to this thread but i must comment here... there is no such thing as negative pressure. please tell me how you create this negative pressure and how you would measure it. suck the air out of a strong rigid container is there negative pressure inside the container now suck the air out of a soda can semi rigid is it the negative pressure crushing the can suck the air out of a flexible container balloon is there negative pressure inside the balloon now in the above cases the answer is no. however there will be a pressure differential between the outside air pressure and the air pressure on the other side of the membrane be it rigid or flexible. there is nothing actually next to nothing inside the ballon/container now only positive pressure on the outside. this positive pressure is what crushes the can in the above example. to measure you are really measuring the differential of the pressures on either side of the barrier membrane. dj .

From : tom lawrence

i said that there is pressure created inside of the pump not that the pressure is created inside of the pump. uh huh... is this where you start questioning the others definitions of the word is .

From : tom lawrence

lol now that i re-read it it does sound pretty stupid. progress.... .

From : tbone

lol now that i re-read it it does sound pretty stupid. by negative pressure i meant resistance to flow since as you said there is no such thing as negative pressure. oh well what was said was said. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving on thu 22 apr 2004 060904 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote snip btw put a pressure gauge on the pump body and often as not you will find the inner casing to be under a partial vacuum. lol and what is a vacuum but a negative pressure and where is it inside the pump. pardon this lurkers late entrance to this thread but i must comment here... there is no such thing as negative pressure. please tell me how you create this negative pressure and how you would measure it. suck the air out of a strong rigid container is there negative pressure inside the container now suck the air out of a soda can semi rigid is it the negative pressure crushing the can suck the air out of a flexible container balloon is there negative pressure inside the balloon now in the above cases the answer is no. however there will be a pressure differential between the outside air pressure and the air pressure on the other side of the membrane be it rigid or flexible. there is nothing actually next to nothing inside the ballon/container now only positive pressure on the outside. this positive pressure is what crushes the can in the above example. to measure you are really measuring the differential of the pressures on either side of the barrier membrane. dj .

From : tbone

get serious think im reading back through that garbage you posted this week. you know what you said and guess what so does everyone else. iow you did look found what i said realized that you were wrong and are not man enough to admit to it. we all know ya said it. several times. then prove it and remember there is a big difference between saying that pressure is formed in the pump and the pressure is formed in the pump. were not talking about the pump body but the discharge side of the pump. you know where that is dont you thats the area you been yapping about that pressure is created. boy talk about spin. i said that pressure is created inside of the pump learn to read. yup you said pressure....... yes but i did not say the pressure bevis. btw put a pressure gauge on the pump body and often as not you will find the inner casing to be under a partial vacuum. lol and what is a vacuum but a negative pressure and where is it inside the pump. not negative pressure. nice hole ya got there. yep an incorrect term. i should have said a resistance but lifes tuff sometimes. are you that dense ........... there is no flow except at the discharge. lol now there is no flow except at discharge. tell me then how does the fluid pass through the pump if there is no flow lol you just dont understand do you then please explain it and stop distorting the model maxi. you did say that no heat was generated inside of the pump so stop trying to use jerrys posts to spin out of it. put you magic pressure gauge at the discharge flange of the pump with no line hooked up and what is the reading........... hint.....zero. hint w r o n g!!! hint you havent a clue. i was talking about my discussion with max your discussion with me has nothing to do with what jerry said its simply a spin on your part. lol keep hiding maxi it is the best that you can do. pot kettle black in both cases. pressure is created when a fluid propelled by some force in motion encounters some type of resistance. bingo. since a pump in and of itself has no resistance at its outlet no pressure exists. only in the model. but we were not talking about the outlet anyway we were talking about the pump being a source of heat and their is plenty of resistance inside of the pump. if there was no resistance to flow within a pump a pump is 100% resistant to flow. if you shut it off no fluid moves. then it is no longer pumping and how much money do you want to put on that 100% resistant to flow. turn it on and fluid moves. no pressure is created. a force has to be applied to that fluid to get it to start moving. the fluid itself will resist that remember that vacuum newtons laws and that creates pressure within the pump. then some of that fluid will get between the rotor and the housing which creates a shear force similar to the one you described about the converter and that is yet another source of resistance pressure and heat within the pump. then there is that pesky problem of friction between two surfaces. both the fluid and the pump internals have surfaces in contact with each other and in motion and look at that more friction pressure and heat within the pump. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : idaspode

on thu 22 apr 2004 153850 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote lol now that i re-read it it does sound pretty stupid. by negative pressure i meant resistance to flow since as you said there is no such thing as negative pressure. oh well what was said was said. true and im pretty sure everyone knows what you were meaning. its just that i recently followed a thread on the ford ng where they kept referring to negative pressure in the fuel tanks kinda bugged this anal retentive type person that i am... pardon this lurkers late entrance to this thread but i must comment here... there is no such thing as negative pressure. please tell me how you create this negative pressure and how you would measure it. david .

From : max340

lol now that i re-read it it does sound pretty stupid. you should re-read all your stuff lol by negative pressure i meant resistance to flow wow you didnt even mean vacuum how is resistance to flow a pressure or negative pressure or a vacuum max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : max340

lol now that i re-read it it does sound pretty stupid. progress.... now if he would just re-read all the crap he types up. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : max340

we all know ya said it. several times. then prove it as jerry said im not wasting my time to prove something we all saw ya do. particularly when all youll do is avoid admitting ya said it or deny it and spin it into something its not. and remember there is a big difference between saying that pressure is formed in the pump and the pressure is formed in the pump. not really since neither one is true. yup you said pressure....... yes but i did not say the pressure will you be definine the is and other modifiers on this thread as well or will you be avoiding the presidential spin tactics of the clinton administration not negative pressure. nice hole ya got there. yep an incorrect term. i should have said a resistance but lifes tuff sometimes. especially when ya open yer trap and spout off about stuff you dont know much about and then dont have the cojones to admit same. then please explain it and stop distorting the model i havent distorted it. as i said you just dont understand do you a liquid cannot be compressed. a pump will not compress a liquid but it will move it. it pulls a volume of liquid in on the inlet side pushes it to the outlet side and wonder of wonders flow is created. in fact most liquid pumps depend on liquid staying at the same volume so it will flow rather than compress. its not a tough thing to understand unless your other theories depend on misunderstanding it. you did say that no heat was generated inside of the pump no i said in and of itself a pump cannot generate heat in a liquid. couple that pump to any resistance and it very well may generate heat in the liquid. o stop trying to use jerrys posts to spin out of it. spin out of what we all see you are the one digging the hole. talking about the pump being a source of heat and their is plenty of resistance inside of the pump. nope. explained that already. then it is no longer pumping and how much money do you want to put on that 100% resistant to flow. depends on the type of pump but you damn sure arent gonna get much through a hydraulic pump thats not running. a force has to be applied to that fluid to get it to start moving. terrific. but that force creates flow not pressure. its all about flow. the fluid itself will resist that remember that vacuum newtons laws and that creates pressure within the pump. nope sorry try again. itll create a vacuum outside the inlet side of the pump but no pressure inside the pump. then some of that fluid will get between the rotor and the housing which creates a shear force um no. the clearance there is less than .008 by spec the most youll create is a hydrodynamic wedge that acts as a lubricant. similar to the one you described about the converter the shear force in a convertor is far different than any sort of shear force in a pump. and that is yet another source of resistance pressure and heat within the pump. lol you are grasping at straws. then there is that pesky problem of friction between two surfaces. both the fluid and the pump internals have surfaces in contact with each other and in motion and look at that more friction pressure and heat within the pump. really grasping at straws...... max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : max340

i said that there is pressure created inside of the pump not that the pressure is created inside of the pump. of all people in here i thought that you would understand that. so tom lawrence that is you must also understand what clinton meant when he said is and all the meanings pertaining to that word as well. you are one priviledged mfer i gotta say. lol max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : tbone

i said that there is pressure created inside of the pump not that the pressure is created inside of the pump. uh huh... is this where you start questioning the others definitions of the word is did i do something to you are you saying that there is no resistance of any kind within a pump if you are now claiming to be the new english and grammar expert how exactly would you word it -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

we all know ya said it. several times. then prove it as jerry said im not wasting my time to prove something we all saw ya do. particularly when all youll do is avoid admitting ya said it or deny it and spin it into something its not. iow you cant. and remember there is a big difference between saying that pressure is formed in the pump and the pressure is formed in the pump. not really since neither one is true. i expect nothing less from you anymore. yup you said pressure....... yes but i did not say the pressure will you be definine the is and other modifiers on this thread as well or will you be avoiding the presidential spin tactics of the clinton administration talking about spin lol. there is a big difference between the systempressure is created in the pump and some residual pressure forms in there. how would you word it. oh thats right you will just spin it now and say that it doesnt exist even though the laws of physics say differently. not negative pressure. nice hole ya got there. yep an incorrect term. i should have said a resistance but lifes tuff sometimes. especially when ya open yer trap and spout off about stuff you dont know much about and then dont have the cojones to admit same. i guess that reading comprehention is not a strong point for you either. then please explain it and stop distorting the model i havent distorted it. as i said you just dont understand do you no you just dont understand physics and the false assumptions made within the model for reasons of clarity. a liquid cannot be compressed. wrong that is a myth. a pump will not compress a liquid but it will move it. it pulls a volume of liquid in on the inlet side pushes it to the outlet side and wonder of wonders flow is created. in fact most liquid pumps depend on liquid staying at the same volume so it will flow rather than compress. lol. if compression is the issue then there would never be pressure anywhere since the liquid will have the same compression properties or lack of them according to you outside of the pump as it does inside of it. its not a tough thing to understand unless your other theories depend on misunderstanding it. hahahahahaha that is you here max. you look at the model but have no concept of what is really happening. you did say that no heat was generated inside of the pump no i said in and of itself a pump cannot generate heat in a liquid. couple that pump to any resistance and it very well may generate heat in the liquid. hahahahahaha you have once again shot yourself in the foot. if the pump has no resistance then it has no resistance and can never generate heat this is pure logic. you cannot induce a resistance where it doesnt exist regardless of the load you put on it. the only thing that you can do is multiply the effects of an existing resistance which proves that a pump must have internal resistance to produce heat when a load is placed on it. thanks again max. talking about the pump being a source of heat and their is plenty of resistance inside of the pump. nope. explained that already. and proved yourself wrong as well. then it is no longer pumping and how much money do you want to put on that 100% resistant to flow. depends on the type of pump but you damn sure arent gonna get much through a hydraulic pump thats not running. you did say 100% which equates to nothing not very little. see even on a simple point like this you cannot admit to being wrong and you have the nerve to talk about me. a force has to be applied to that fluid to get it to start moving. terrific. but that force creates flow not pressure. its all about flow. in the model yes but that force applies pressure to overcome the inertia of the fluid to create flow inside of the pump. the fluid itself will resist that remember that vacuum newtons laws and that creates pressure within the pump. nope sorry try again. itll create a vacuum outside the inlet side of the pump but no pressure inside the pump. then i guess that newtons laws of motion no longer apply in a maxworld pump but here in reality.... http//www.aloha.com/isaac/3laws/3laws.htm then some of that fluid will get between the rotor and the housing which creates a shear force um no. the clearance there is less than .008 by spec the most youll create is a hydrodynamic wedge that acts as a lubricant. lol then where does the 85% efficiency that many manufacturers of this type of pump state it has come from. similar to the one you described about the converter the shear force in a convertor is far different than any sort of shear force in a pump. how is it different and that is yet another source of resistance pressure and heat within the pump. lol you are grasping at straws. actually that would be you. then there is that pesky proble

From : max340

there is a big difference between the system pressure is created in the pump and some residual pressure forms in there. there is no pressure inside or created by the pump. oh thats right you will just spin it now and say that it doesnt exist even though the laws of physics say differently. please specifically prove a hydraulic pump creates pressure either at the outlet or inside the pump body. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : tom lawrence

did i do something to you no not specifically. i guess i was just overwhelmed by the amount of backpedalling and wheel spinning youve been doing for the past week or so. are you saying that there is no resistance of any kind within a pump im not getting into this... youve got enough problems already. if you are now claiming to be the new english and grammar expert how exactly would you word it i said pressure not the pressure... i dont know tom - but id try and word it a little better than that. look - bottom line... youre making yourself look like a fool. youre stating things then in the next breath denying that you ever stated that very thing. youre arguing your points from a manual having never actually touched any of the components you claim to know so much about. this debate has declined from a discussion of transmissions to an argument over prepositions. but hey if it makes ya happy... have at it. just dont be surprised when no one takes you seriously on anything else. .

From : transurgeon

why would the oil be any hotter in the cooling lines then it is in the pan iirc doesnt the oil go from the pan to the pump and then into the cooling lines good grief pan filter pump pressure regulator converter cooler gear train lube pan the converter adds heat the cooler removes it .

From : redneck tookover hell

hahahahahahahahaha even in an area where you claim to have superior knowledge you have to say something completely ignorant and make yourself out to be a fool. yep thats our boner. trying to spin his fat ass out of another mudhole politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : bob

milesh wrote anyone swap their stock pan for one of these on a 46re tranny i tow alot in arizona where its friggn hot in the summer. the model im looking at will add about 4qts capacity. will that pan cause any ground clearance issues i can get one for about $250. mopar has one for $150 or so but it only adds about 1 1/2 qts capacity and looks alot cheaper made. of course it will affect ground clearance it hangs down lower than stock. will it matter depends on a lot of things how you drive where you drive etc. get a gallon oil jug square and spray some paint on one side. attach it to the bottom of the pan using wire with the painted side down. let it hang there for a month or so. if any paint is scraped off dont change the pan. of course $250 will buy a very nice additional cooler. -- ..bob 97 h-d fxdwg - turbocharged!! 01 dakota quad sport 5.9/auto/4x4 83 gmc jimmy beater 66 427sc cobra replica - project 66 mustang coupe - daily driver -----= posted via feeds.com uncensored usenet =----- http//www.feeds.com - the #1 group service in the world! -----== over 100000 groups - 19 different servers! =----- .

From : steve barker

$250!!! hell for $200 ill build you one that holds as much as you want. it doesnt necessarily have to get deeper to hold more you know. a good cooler will do just as well for about $69 -- steve barker ========= anyone swap their stock pan for one of these on a 46re tranny i tow alot in arizona where its friggn hot in the summer. the model im looking at will add about 4qts capacity. will that pan cause any ground clearance issues i can get one for about $250. mopar has one for $150 or so but it only adds about 1 1/2 qts capacity and looks alot cheaper made. .

From : mike simmons

the mag-hytec pan is a good quality aftermarket item. it will not affect your ground clearance since it is not the lowest part on the truck. it is still above the crossmember. one feature is that it is drilled/tapped for a 1/8 npt fitting so you can add a trans temp sensor easily. they are a bit pricey but i do recommend em. mike anyone swap their stock pan for one of these on a 46re tranny i tow alot in arizona where its friggn hot in the summer. the model im looking at will add about 4qts capacity. will that pan cause any ground clearance issues i can get one for about $250. mopar has one for $150 or so but it only adds about 1 1/2 qts capacity and looks alot cheaper made. .

From : roy

anyone swap their stock pan for one of these on a 46re tranny i tow alot in arizona where its friggn hot in the summer. the model im looking at will add about 4qts capacity. will that pan cause any ground clearance issues i can get one for about $250. mopar has one for $150 or so but it only adds about 1 1/2 qts capacity and looks alot cheaper made. i used the double deep and lowered the temp enough so that an additional cooler was not needed. ymmv roy .

From : tbone

the mag-hytec pan is a good quality aftermarket item. it will not affect your ground clearance since it is not the lowest part on the truck. it is still above the crossmember. one feature is that it is drilled/tapped for a 1/8 npt fitting so you can add a trans temp sensor easily. they are a bit pricey but i do recommend em. good point on the clearance issue mike. but im still up in the air on the sensor in the pan. as i said in the other thread im anal enough about it to want real time temp. imho if the temp is important enough and you are going to the trouble to install a gauge put it where you get the hottest reading. why would the oil be any hotter in the cooling lines then it is in the pan iirc doesnt the oil go from the pan to the pump and then into the cooling lines -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : roy

foul to you for going over the line lol. i do seem to be correct in my observation that he thinks much of himself even though he is the only one that does. oh well this thread had degraded way below even entertainment and since he is not man enough to answer even the simple questions and otherwise just lies im done. im sure that littlepud will start up again somewhere else since that is what real trolls always do. later dude. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving . 222 280661 hwtdc.110625$w54.786178@attbis01 the mag-hytec pan is a good quality aftermarket item. it will not affect your ground clearance since it is not the lowest part on the truck. it is still above the crossmember. one feature is that it is drilled/tapped for a 1/8 npt fitting so you can add a trans temp sensor easily. they are a bit pricey but i do recommend em. good point on the clearance issue mike. but im still up in the air on the sensor in the pan. as i said in the other thread im anal enough about it to want real time temp. imho if the temp is important enough and you are going to the trouble to install a gauge put it where you get the hottest reading. oh gramps hows the diaper changing goingg roy mike anyone swap their stock pan for one of these on a 46re tranny i tow alot in arizona where its friggn hot in the summer. the model im looking at will add about 4qts capacity. will that pan cause any ground clearance issues i can get one for about $250. mopar has one for $150 or so but it only adds about 1 1/2 qts capacity and looks alot cheaper made. .

From : roy

the mag-hytec pan is a good quality aftermarket item. it will not affect your ground clearance since it is not the lowest part on the truck. it is still above the crossmember. one feature is that it is drilled/tapped for a 1/8 npt fitting so you can add a trans temp sensor easily. they are a bit pricey but i do recommend em. good point on the clearance issue mike. but im still up in the air on the sensor in the pan. as i said in the other thread im anal enough about it to want real time temp. imho if the temp is important enough and you are going to the trouble to install a gauge put it where you get the hottest reading. why would the oil be any hotter in the cooling lines then it is in the pan yes in the line from the transmission to the cooler. iirc doesnt the oil go from the pan to the pump and then into the cooling lines there is a out and in line to the cooler. it makes sense to me to get the temp before it is cooled to give a accurate indication of true transmission temp. i suppose if one were inclined a sensor in the pan would give an indication on how well the cooler is working. im a believer in these pans though the more fluid you have the more it will dissipate the heat. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : max340

lol do you just like to start shit with me funny...... thank you for the more detailed explanation but since the filter and regulator do not add measueable heat they are irrelevent. wrong. as for the gear train then lube part i believe that i covered that when i said that it returns from the cooler to the valve body for distribution to where it is needed. well since it doesnt you could cover it that way all ya like it doesnt happen that way. the part that i did mess was the converter and like i said i could be wrong. you missed a lot more than that and you are wrong. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : tbone

really gary from another one of your posts pan filter pump pressure regulator converter cooler gear train lube pan it looks like by even your description that the pan is before the cooler. yup but not after the pump like you claimed. and its not immediately before the cooler. i dont recall saying immediatly before anything and putting the filter in the discussion is just making you look desperate. like i said i may be wrong no you are wrong. shut up now. gfy but things like the filter and regulator do not change the temp are not relavent to the discussion. more bullshit. resisitance to flow is what raises fluid temp and both the regulator and the filter do this adding to the fluid temp. hahahahahahahahaha even in an area where you claim to have superior knowledge you have to say something completely ignorant and make yourself out to be a fool. unless the increase is measurable it does not exist. by your idiotic reasoning the cold water coming into your house must be burning hot with all of the resistance it encounters in the miles of piping it has to follow unless of course you have well water but even then it should be near boiling in the well itself wit

From : mike simmons

the mag-hytec pan is a good quality aftermarket item. it will not affect your ground clearance since it is not the lowest part on the truck. it is still above the crossmember. one feature is that it is drilled/tapped for a 1/8 npt fitting so you can add a trans temp sensor easily. they are a bit pricey but i do recommend em. good point on the clearance issue mike. but im still up in the air on the sensor in the pan. as i said in the other thread im anal enough about it to want real time temp. imho if the temp is important enough and you are going to the trouble to install a gauge put it where you get the hottest reading. oh gramps hows the diaper changing goingg roy no diapers yet! the kiddo is in pa and we are here in mo. we plan on driving up for a few days next month to check him out.... maybe take him fishin ^. yeah i know you want to measure those extra few degrees but i am loathe to tap into cooler lines. an extra fitting or two just seems to me a potential source for a leak under pressure. plus if the tranny engineers at chryco think monitoring the pan temp is good enough for them then its ok by me. just my .02..... ill let you know how the diaper business goes next month! ;^ mike mike anyone swap their stock pan for one of these on a 46re tranny i tow alot in arizona where its friggn hot in the summer. the model im looking at will add about 4qts capacity. will that pan cause any ground clearance issues i can get one for about $250. mopar has one for $150 or so but it only adds about 1 1/2 qts capacity and looks alot cheaper made. .

From : tbone

the mag-hytec pan is a good quality aftermarket item. it will not affect your ground clearance since it is not the lowest part on the truck. it is still above the crossmember. one feature is that it is drilled/tapped for a 1/8 npt fitting so you can add a trans temp sensor easily. they are a bit pricey but i do recommend em. good point on the clearance issue mike. but im still up in the air on the sensor in the pan. as i said in the other thread im anal enough about it to want real time temp. imho if the temp is important enough and you are going to the trouble to install a gauge put it where you get the hottest reading. why would the oil be any hotter in the cooling lines then it is in the pan yes in the line from the transmission to the cooler. iirc doesnt the oil go from the pan to the pump and then into the cooling lines there is a out and in line to the cooler. it makes sense to me to get the temp before it is cooled to give a accurate indication of true transmission temp. i suppose if one were inclined a sensor in the pan would give an indication on how well the cooler is working. im a believer in these pans though the more fluid you have the more it will dissipate the heat. like i said although i may be wrong the oil in the pan is before the cooler. the pump pulls the oil from the pan and sends it to the cooler in line. if this is the case there should be little to no measurable temperature difference between the pan and the cooler in line. after passing through the cooler the fluid then returns from the cooler out line into the valve body where it is distributed to where it is needed. a sensor on the cooler outline would indicate how well the cooler is working but i dont know how important that information actually is. i also agree with the bigger pan helping as it allows more time for the fluid to cool in the pan as well between cycles through the transmission. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : max340

really gary from another one of your posts pan filter pump pressure regulator converter cooler gear train lube pan it looks like by even your description that the pan is before the cooler. yup but not after the pump like you claimed. and its not immediately before the cooler. like i said i may be wrong no you are wrong. shut up now. but things like the filter and regulator do not change the temp are not relavent to the discussion. more bullshit. resisitance to flow is what raises fluid temp and both the regulator and the filter do this adding to the fluid temp. i did forget about the converter but the heat that it adds equates to a false high temp wrong again. the convertor is the major source of heat in the trans and thus is not false in any sense of the word. so you are correct the temp may be different but does the slightly higher temp in the cooler input line give an accurate picture. unless you can get a sensor to stay in the shell of the convertor..... i thought that the concern was the trans temp pan no the post converter temp cooling line. boy were you misled...... max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : tbone

please expound upon this alledged density difference between water and atf be sure to include sources of your information lol are you saying that trans fluid has the same density as water do you really want to look like a complete ass -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : transurgeon

the mag-hytec pan is a good quality aftermarket item. it will not affect your ground clearance since it is not the lowest part on the truck. it is still above the crossmember. one feature is that it is drilled/tapped for a 1/8 npt fitting so you can add a trans temp sensor easily. they are a bit pricey but i do recommend em. good point on the clearance issue mike. but im still up in the air on the sensor in the pan. as i said in the other thread im anal enough about it to want real time temp. imho if the temp is important enough and you are going to the trouble to install a gauge put it where you get the hottest reading. why would the oil be any hotter in the cooling lines then it is in the pan yes in the line from the transmission to the cooler. iirc doesnt the oil go from the pan to the pump and then into the cooling lines there is a out and in line to the cooler. it makes sense to me to get the temp before it is cooled to give a accurate indication of true transmission temp. i suppose if one were inclined a sensor in the pan would give an indication on how well the cooler is working. im a believer in these pans though the more fluid you have the more it will dissipate the heat. like i said although i may be wrong the oil in the pan is before the cooler. youre wrong the pump pulls the oil from the pan and sends it to the cooler in line. nope sends it to pressure regulator then to converter if this is the case there should be little to no measurable temperature difference between the pan and the cooler in line. after passing through the cooler the fluid then returns from the cooler out line into the valve body where it is distributed to where it is needed. a sensor on the cooler outline would indicate how well the cooler is working but i dont know how important that information actually is. i also agree with the bigger pan helping as it allows more time for the fluid to cool in the pan as well between cycles through the transmission. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

there is a out and in line to the cooler. it makes sense to me to get the temp before it is cooled to give a accurate indication of true transmission temp. i suppose if one were inclined a sensor in the pan would give an indication on how well the cooler is working. im a believer in these pans though the more fluid you have the more it will dissipate the heat. like i said although i may be wrong the oil in the pan is before the cooler. youre wrong really gary from another one of your posts pan filter pump pressure regulator converter cooler gear train lube pan it looks like by even your description that the pan is before the cooler. the pump pulls the oil from the pan and sends it to the cooler in line. nope sends it to pressure regulator then to converter like i said i may be wrong about the exact path but things like the filter and regulator do not change the temp are not relavent to the discussion. i did forget about the converter but the heat that it adds equates to a false high temp so you are correct the temp may be different but does the slightly higher temp in the cooler input line give an accurate picture. i thought that the concern was the trans temp pan no the post converter temp cooling line. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

why would the oil be any hotter in the cooling lines then it is in the pan iirc doesnt the oil go from the pan to the pump and then into the cooling lines good grief pan filter pump pressure regulator converter cooler gear train lube pan lol do you just like to start shit with me thank you for the more detailed explanation but since the filter and regulator do not add measueable heat they are irrelevent. as for the gear train then lube part i believe that i covered that when i said that it returns from the cooler to the valve body for distribution to where it is needed. the part that i did mess was the converter and like i said i could be wrong. the converter adds heat the cooler removes it while very true both of these components are outside of the transmission and as you clearly pointed out in your flow path so what is the point of including them. the input line adds the heat added by the converter and gives an false trans temp and the output line is the cooled fluid. neither one gives an accurate temp of the transmission itself. -- if at first you dont s

From : jerry

roy wrote iirc dc makes a line for the ctd that has a port for the gauge. dont know about the gas wait i think you said different size. anyway with the pan he might be okay. this was from the tdr when asked about gauge for transmission on the dodge cummins with auto. not sure what year models it would fit but assume all after 1995. you need to get a new line for a 95 year model it is the out line from transmission to the exchange cooler under the turbo. remember when you install this line you have to remove the check valve in it the exchange cooler already has a check valve and having two of them in line would restrict too much oil flow. iirc the difference between the update rate on the gauge reading between the two locations was the major concern when pulling heavy loads. traffic. jerry .

From : max340

why would the oil be any hotter in the cooling lines then it is in the pan iirc doesnt the oil go from the pan to the pump and then into the cooling lines you dont recall correctly. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : max340

no diapers yet! the kiddo is in pa and we are here in mo. where in pa max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : redneck tookover hell

i wonder if tbone would care to explain how all that stuff that depends on hydraulic pressure works when the pump is just sending the oil to the cooler hell be spinning his fat ass in another mudhole creating hydaulic pressure politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : redneck tookover hell

when you make an ass of yourself trying to explain shit you dont understand stand up and step away from the keyboard boner forgot to include that in his trolling 101 manual politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : transurgeon

why would the oil be any hotter in the cooling lines then it is in the pan iirc doesnt the oil go from the pan to the pump and then into the cooling lines good grief pan filter pump pressure regulator converter cooler gear train lube pan lol do you just like to start shit with me no however i do enjoy watching you thrash around like a fish out of water when you try cover your ass thank you for the more detailed explanation but since the filter and regulator do not add measueable heat they are irrelevent. as for the gear train then lube part i believe that i covered that when i said that it returns from the cooler to the valve body for distribution to where it is needed. return from the cooler doesnt go thru the valve body einstein it goes in the rear fitting on the case into the output shaft intermediate shaft on od units then thru the shaft to feed holes at the various points necessary the part that i did mess was the converter and like i said i could be wrong. the converter is the primary source of heat what is so difficult to understand about that the converter adds heat the cooler removes it while very true both of these components are outside of the transmission and as you clearly pointed out in your flow path so what is the point of including them. the input line adds the heat added by the converter and gives an false trans temp and the output line is the cooled fluid. neither one gives an accurate temp of the transmission itself. hey einstein think about what happens in a full-stall condition where the converter adds more heat than the cooler can dissipate hint the overall temperature does not decrease -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving when you make an ass of yourself trying to explain shit you dont understand stand up and step away from the keyboard .

From : roy

the mag-hytec pan is a good quality aftermarket item. it will not affect your ground clearance since it is not the lowest part on the truck. it is still above the crossmember. one feature is that it is drilled/tapped for a 1/8 npt fitting so you can add a trans temp sensor easily. they are a bit pricey but i do recommend em. good point on the clearance issue mike. but im still up in the air on the sensor in the pan. as i said in the other thread im anal enough about it to want real time temp. imho if the temp is important enough and you are going to the trouble to install a gauge put it where you get the hottest reading. oh gramps hows the diaper changing goingg roy no diapers yet! the kiddo is in pa and we are here in mo. we plan on driving up for a few days next month to check him out.... maybe take him fishin ^. hmmm... i wonder what your first change will be a present for gandpa.vbg yeah i know you want to measure those extra few degrees but i am loathe to tap into cooler lines. an extra fitting or two just seems to me a potential source for a leak under pressure. plus if the tranny engineers at chryco think monitoring the pan temp is good enough for them then its ok by me. of course i want it all. iirc dc makes a line for the ctd that has a port for the gauge. dont know about the gas wait i think you said different size. anyway with the pan he might be okay. just my .02..... my 1/2 cent. ill let you know how the diaper business goes next month! ya gotta tell us the truthg roy ;^ mike mike anyone swap their stock pan for one of these on a 46re tranny i tow alot in arizona where its friggn hot in the summer. the model im looking at will add about 4qts capacity. will that pan cause any ground clearance issues i can get one for about $250. mopar has one for $150 or so but it only adds about 1 1/2 qts capacity and looks alot cheaper made. .

From : mike simmons

the mag-hytec pan is a good quality aftermarket item. it will not affect your ground clearance since it is not the lowest part on the truck. it is still above the crossmember. one feature is that it is drilled/tapped for a 1/8 npt fitting so you can add a trans temp sensor easily. they are a bit pricey but i do recommend em. good point on the clearance issue mike. but im still up in the air on the sensor in the pan. as i said in the other thread im anal enough about it to want real time temp. imho if the temp is important enough and you are going to the trouble to install a gauge put it where you get the hottest reading. oh gramps hows the diaper changing goingg roy no diapers yet! the kiddo is in pa and we are here in mo. we plan on driving up for a few days next month to check him out.... maybe take him fishin ^. hmmm... i wonder what your first change will be a present for gandpa.vbg yeah i know you want to measure those extra few degrees but i am loathe to tap into cooler lines. an extra fitting or two just seems to me a potential source for a leak under pressure. plus if the tranny engineers at chryco think monitoring the pan temp is good enough for them then its ok by me. of course i want it all. iirc dc makes a line for the ctd that has a port for the gauge. dont know about the gas wait i think you said different size. anyway with the pan he might be okay. just my .02..... my 1/2 cent. ill let you know how the diaper business goes next month! ya gotta tell us the truthg yeah but if i read the grandpa rule book correctly you get to have the fun with em but when they poop their pants you hand em back to their parents..... isnt that right ^ mike roy ;^ mike mike anyone swap their stock pan for one of these on a 46re tranny i tow alot in arizona where its friggn hot in the summer. the model im looking at will add about 4qts capacity. will that pan cause any ground clearance issues i can get one for about $250. mopar has one for $150 or so but it only adds about 1 1/2 qts capacity and looks alot cheaper made. .

From : max340

like i said although i may be wrong the oil in the pan is before the cooler. youre wrong the pump pulls the oil from the pan and sends it to the cooler in line. i wonder if tbone would care to explain how all that stuff that depends on hydraulic pressure works when the pump is just sending the oil to the cooler max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : redneck tookover hell

i did forget about the converter but the heat that it adds equates to a false high temp that must be part of that vast automotive knowledge boner claimed to have in a post earlier this past week most any heat he creates is when he tries to spin his fat ass out of a mudhole hes dug himself into i thought that the concern was the trans temp pan no the post converter temp cooling line. more of boners vast automotive knowledge politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : tbone

like i said although i may be wrong the oil in the pan is before the cooler. youre wrong the pump pulls the oil from the pan and sends it to the cooler in line. i wonder if tbone would care to explain how all that stuff that depends on hydraulic pressure works when the pump is just sending the oil to the cooler where did i say that it just sent it to the cooler it is funny watching you in your desperate attempts to try and prove me wrong. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : roy

the mag-hytec pan is a good quality aftermarket item. it will not affect your ground clearance since it is not the lowest part on the truck. it is still above the crossmember. one feature is that it is drilled/tapped for a 1/8 npt fitting so you can add a trans temp sensor easily. they are a bit pricey but i do recommend em. good point on the clearance issue mike. but im still up in the air on the sensor in the pan. as i said in the other thread im anal enough about it to want real time temp. imho if the temp is important enough and you are going to the trouble to install a gauge put it where you get the hottest reading. oh gramps hows the diaper changing goingg roy no diapers yet! the kiddo is in pa and we are here in mo. we plan on driving up for a few days next month to check him out.... maybe take him fishin ^. hmmm... i wonder what your first change will be a present for gandpa.vbg yeah i know you want to measure those extra few degrees but i am loathe to tap into cooler lines. an extra fitting or two just seems to me a potential source for a leak under pressure. plus if the tranny engineers at chryco think monitoring the pan temp is good enough for them then its ok by me. of course i want it all. iirc dc makes a line for the ctd that has a port for the gauge. dont know about the gas wait i think you said different size. anyway with the pan he might be okay. just my .02..... my 1/2 cent. ill let you know how the diaper business goes next month! ya gotta tell us the truthg yeah but if i read the grandpa rule book correctly you get to have the fun with em but when they poop their pants you hand em back to their parents..... isnt that right it never worked that way for me. roy ^ mike roy ;^ mike mike anyone swap their stock pan for one of these on a 46re tranny i tow alot in arizona where its friggn hot in the summer. the model im looking at will add about 4qts capacity. will that pan cause any ground clearance issues i can get one for about $250. mopar has one for $150 or so but it only adds about 1 1/2 qts capacity and looks alot cheaper made. .

From : tbone

i wonder if tbone would care to explain how all that stuff that depends on hydraulic pressure works when the pump is just sending the oil to the cooler hell be spinning his fat ass in another mudhole creating hydaulic pressure hydraulics is the last thing that you should be criticizing anybody about mr. master cylinder. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : transurgeon

like i said although i may be wrong the oil in the pan is before the cooler. youre wrong the pump pulls the oil from the pan and sends it to the cooler in line. i wonder if tbone would care to explain how all that stuff that depends on hydraulic pressure works when the pump is just sending the oil to the cooler where did i say that it just sent it to the cooler you sure as hell didnt mention it going anywhere else like i said although i may be wrong the oil in the pan is before the cooler. the pump pulls the oil from the pan and sends it to the cooler in line. it is funny watching you in your desperate attempts to try and prove me wrong. its very amusing watching you trying to parse words to cover your fat ass .

From : tbone

to deal with permeating the rock and forget the extreme temperatures it must reach coming out of the faucet if you dont have it opened all of the way lol sorry to burst your bubble there maxi but it is the combination of pressure and resistance that can generate heat. as for the filter the huge amount of surface area and relatively low pressure on the suction side of the pump means no measurable increase in temp and if you say it does prove it. if anything were to raise the temp it would be the pump moron not the filter and if you knew even 1/100th of what you claim to you could have got me there. now for the regulator since it actually lowers pressure coming from the pump it also serves to lower the temp not increase it. i did forget about the converter but the heat that it adds equates to a false high temp wrong again. the convertor is the major source of heat in the trans and thus is not false in any sense of the word. really please back that up. funny how the automatic transmissions of the past which used basically the same converter without the electronic lockup had 100000 mile service intervals and the od automatics are within 25000 miles. it looks like the biggest source of heat is the od unit. so you are correct the temp may be different but does the slightly higher temp in the cooler input line give an accurate picture. unless you can get a sensor to stay in the shell of the convertor..... but the temp in the converter is not the same as the temp in the trans so what is the point i thought that the concern was the trans temp pan no the post converter temp cooling line. boy were you misled...... and with the shit that you post i wonder why. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving . 222 280698 zu%dc.3877$hj1.153012@twister.southeast.rr.com that is because i have your updated copy. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving when you make an ass of yourself trying to explain shit you dont understand stand up and step away from the keyboard boner forgot to include that in his trolling 101 manual politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : steve barker

ask a firefighter how hot the pumps get on a pumper pumping cold water from a hydrant. -- steve barker ========= .. by your idiotic reasoning the cold water coming into your house must be burning hot with all of the resistance it encounters in the miles of piping it has to follow unless of course you have well water but even then it should be near boiling in the well itself with all of the resistance it has to deal with permeating the rock and forget the extreme temperatures it must reach coming out of the faucet if you dont have it opened all of the way .

From : transurgeon

really gary from another one of your posts pan filter pump pressure regulator converter cooler gear train lube pan it looks like by even your description that the pan is before the cooler. yup but not after the pump like you claimed. and its not immediately before the cooler. i dont recall saying immediatly before anything and putting the filter in the discussion is just making you look desperate. like i said i may be wrong no you are wrong. shut up now. gfy great rebuttal but things like the filter and regulator do not change the temp are not relavent to the discussion. more bullshit. resisitance to flow is what raises fluid temp and both the regulator and the filter do this adding to the fluid temp. hahahahahahahahaha even in an area where you claim to have superior knowledge you have to say something completely ignorant and make yourself out to be a fool. unless the increase is measurable it does not exist. by your idiotic reasoning the cold water coming into your house must be burning hot with all of the resistance it encounters in the miles of piping it has to follow unless of course you have well water but even then it should be near boiling in the well itself with all of the resistance it has to deal with permeating the rock and forget the extreme temperatures it must reach coming out of the faucet if you dont have it opened all of the way lol sorry to burst your bubble there maxi but it is the combination of pressure and resistance that can generate heat. as for the filter the huge amount of surface area and relatively low pressure on the suction side of the pump means no measurable increase in temp and if you say it does prove it. if anything were to raise the temp it would be the pump moron not the filter and if you knew even 1/100th of what you claim to you could have got me there. now for the regulator since it actually lowers pressure coming from the pump it also serves to lower the temp not increase it. wrong again braniac the regulator offers resistance to the pump flow you figure out the result i did forget about the converter but the heat that it adds equates to a false high temp wrong again. the convertor is the major source of heat in the trans and thus is not false in any sense of the word. really please back that up. funny how the automatic transmissions of the past which used basically the same converter without the electronic lockup had 100000 mile service intervals and the od automatics are within 25000 miles. it looks like the biggest source of heat is the od unit. looks like you have no concept of what generates heat heres a hint rotational energy in minus rotational energy out.......what happens to the rest so you are correct the temp may be different but does the slightly higher temp in the cooler input line give an accurate picture. unless you can get a sensor to stay in the shell of the convertor..... but the temp in the converter is not the same as the temp in the trans so what is the point i thought that the concern was the trans temp pan no the post converter temp cooling line. boy were you misled...... and with the shit that you post i wonder why. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : redneck tookover hell

where did i say that it just sent it to the cooler it is funny watching you in your desperate attempts to try and prove me wrong. yes it is funny watching you try to spin your fat ass out of yet another mudhole youre the one who forgot about the convertor and apparently the rest of the transmission politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : tbone

like i said although i may be wrong the oil in the pan is before the cooler. youre wrong the pump pulls the oil from the pan and sends it to the cooler in line. i wonder if tbone would care to explain how all that stuff that depends on hydraulic pressure works when the pump is just sending the oil to the cooler where did i say that it just sent it to the cooler you sure as hell didnt mention it going anywhere else like i said although i may be wrong the oil in the pan is before the cooler. the pump pulls the oil from the pan and sends it to the cooler in line. why the hell should i we were talking about placement of the sensor at either the pan or coller in line. since the rest of it doenst have anything to do witt he conversation what would the point be in mentioning it other than trying to block your silly troll posts. .

From : transurgeon

like i said although i may be wrong the oil in the pan is before the cooler. youre wrong the pump pulls the oil from the pan and sends it to the cooler in line. i wonder if tbone would care to explain how all that stuff that depends on hydraulic pressure works when the pump is just sending the oil to the cooler where did i say that it just sent it to the cooler you sure as hell didnt mention it going anywhere else like i said although i may be wrong the oil in the pan is before the cooler. the pump pulls the oil from the pan and sends it to the cooler in line. why the hell should i we were talking about placement of the sensor at either the pan or coller in line. hey you were the one expounding on the fluid path dont blame me for pointing out your utter stupidity since the rest of it doenst have anything to do witt he conversation what would the point be in mentioning it other than trying to block your silly troll posts. silly troll posts.......this is rich coming from a tool like you .

From : tbone

but we are not talking about the pump and i did mention the pump as a possible source of heat. the difference here is the size volume and pressure that a huge pump on a fire truck deals with and the density of water with when compared to that of a transmission and its fluid. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving ask a firefighter how hot the pumps get on a pumper pumping cold water from a hydrant. -- steve barker ========= . by your idiotic reasoning the cold water coming into your house must be burning hot with all of the resistance it encounters in the miles of piping it has to follow unless of course you have well water but even then it should be near boiling in the well itself with all of the resistance it has to deal with permeating the rock and forget the extreme temperatures it must reach coming out of the faucet if you dont have it opened all of the way .

From : transurgeon

like i said although i may be wrong the oil in the pan is before the cooler. youre wrong the pump pulls the oil from the pan and sends it to the cooler in line. i wonder if tbone would care to explain how all that stuff that depends on hydraulic pressure works when the pump is just sending the oil to the cooler where did i say that it just sent it to the cooler you sure as hell didnt mention it going anywhere else like i said although i may be wrong the oil in the pan is before the cooler. the pump pulls the oil from the pan and sends it to the cooler in line. why the hell should i we were talking about placement of the sensor at either the pan or coller in line. hey you were the one expounding on the fluid path only relevant to the discussion at hand which was either the pan or the coolant line. dont blame me for pointing out your utter stupidity and dont blame me for laughing at your showing of desperation lol. careful einstein too much spinning in the mud will overheat your flabby sidewalls and youll blow your over-extended gut out since the rest of it doenst have anything to do witt he conversation what would the point be in mentioning it other than trying to block your silly troll posts. silly troll posts.......this is rich coming from a tool like you lol what kind of tool am i. oh i know an intelligence meter and you my friend rate a negative 1. oh my the 3rd grade mentality at work ! .

From : transurgeon

please expound upon this alledged density difference between water and atf be sure to include sources of your information but we are not talking about the pump and i did mention the pump as a possible source of heat. the difference here is the size volume and pressure that a huge pump on a fire truck deals with and the density of water with when compared to that of a transmission and its fluid. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving ask a firefighter how hot the pumps get on a pumper pumping cold water from a hydrant. -- steve barker ========= . by your idiotic reasoning the cold water coming into your house must be burning hot with all of the resistance it encounters in the miles of piping it has to follow unless of course you have well water but even then it should be near boiling in the well itself with all of the resistance it has to deal with permeating the rock and forget the extreme temperatures it must reach coming out of the faucet if you dont have it opened all of the way .

From : tbone

like i said although i may be wrong the oil in the pan is before the cooler. youre wrong the pump pulls the oil from the pan and sends it to the cooler in line. i wonder if tbone would care to explain how all that stuff that depends on hydraulic pressure works when the pump is just sending the oil to the cooler where did i say that it just sent it to the cooler you sure as hell didnt mention it going anywhere else like i said although i may be wrong the oil in the pan is before the cooler. the pump pulls the oil from the pan and sends it to the cooler in line. why the hell should i we were talking about placement of the sensor at either the pan or coller in line. hey you were the one expounding on the fluid path only relevant to the discussion at hand which was either the pan or the coolant line. dont blame me for pointing out your utter stupidity and dont blame me for laughing at your showing of desperation lol. since the rest of it doenst have anything to do witt he conversation what would the point be in mentioning it other than trying to block your silly troll posts. silly troll posts.......this is rich coming from a tool like you lol what kind of tool am i. oh i know an intelligence meter and you my friend rate a negative 1. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tom lawrence

source for a leak under pressure. plus if the tranny engineers at chryco think monitoring the pan temp is good enough for them then its ok by me. cmon mike... you know how this works. ill bet $5 the engineer said something like its best to monitor transmission temperature in the transmission cooler output line since that where the fluid will be at its hottest. then the project manager said well yes that may be true but it will cost us an extra $12 to put it there but only $0.75 to slap a sensor in the pan. well go with the sensor in the pan. to which the engineer said why do i even bother do what you want - just dont call me when the ******* thing blows up! my sensor is in the line between the tranny and the cooler by the way .

From : tbone

really gary from another one of your posts pan filter pump pressure regulator converter cooler gear train lube pan it looks like by even your description that the pan is before the cooler. yup but not after the pump like you claimed. and its not immediately before the cooler. i dont recall saying immediatly before anything and putting the filter in the discussion is just making you look desperate. like i said i may be wrong no you are wrong. shut up now. gfy great rebuttal not really but not much different than many of yours. but things like the filter and regulator do not change the temp are not relavent to the discussion. more bullshit. resisitance to flow is what raises fluid temp and both the regulator and the filter do this adding to the fluid temp. hahahahahahahahaha even in an area where you claim to have superior knowledge you have to say something completely ignorant and make yourself out to be a fool. unless the increase is measurable it does not exist. by your idiotic reasoning the cold water coming into your house must be burning hot with all of the resistance it encounters in the miles of piping it has to follow unless of course you have well water but even then it should be near boiling in the well itself with all of the resistance it has to deal with permeating the rock and forget the extreme temperatures it must reach coming out of the faucet if you dont have it opened all of the way lol sorry to burst your bubble there maxi but it is the combination of pressure and resistance that can generate heat. as for the filter the huge amount of surface area and relatively low pressure on the suction side of the pump means no measurable increase in temp and if you say it does prove it. if anything were to raise the temp it would be the pump moron not the filter and if you knew even 1/100th of what you claim to you could have got me there. now for the regulator since it actually lowers pressure coming from the pump it also serves to lower the temp not increase it. wrong again braniac the regulator offers resistance to the pump flow you figure out the result if you really believe that i would suggest that you change your handle to partschanger. the regulator does not offer any resistance to pump flow. it regulates the amount of pressure on its output side and sends the rest of the fluid back to the pump input which in fact decreases the load on the pump. the only load that the punp sees is what the regularor is set to at a given time and that is much lower than the load it would see without it otherwise in would not need to be there. i did forget about the converter but the heat that it adds equates to a false high temp wrong again. the convertor is the major source of heat in the trans and thus is not false in any sense of the word. really please back that up. funny how the automatic transmissions of the past which used basically the same converter without the electronic lockup had 100000 mile service intervals and the od automatics are within 25000 miles. it looks like the biggest source of heat is the od unit. looks like you have no concept of what generates heat and neither do you if you think that the regulator or filter is a significant or even measurable source of heat. heres a hint rotational energy in minus rotational energy out.......what happens to the rest now that would depend on the level of rotational energy and the coupling efficiency wouldnt it and i would think that an engine at idle is not producing maximumretational energy and 600 rpm is not giving 100% coupling either. so you are correct the temp may be different but does the slightly higher temp in the cooler input line give an accurate picture. unless you can get a sensor to stay in the shell of the convertor..... but the temp in the converter is not the same as the temp in the trans so what is the point i thought that the concern was the trans temp pan no the post converter temp cooling line. boy were you misled...... and with the shit that you post i wonder why. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

why would the oil be any hotter in the cooling lines then it is in the pan iirc doesnt the oil go from the pan to the pump and then into the cooling lines good grief pan filter pump pressure regulator converter cooler gear train lube pan lol do you just like to start shit with me no however i do enjoy watching you thrash around like a fish out of water when you try cover your ass how am i trying to cover my ass thank you for the more detailed explanation but since the filter and regulator do not add measueable heat they are irrelevent. as for the gear train then lube part i believe that i covered that when i said that it returns from the cooler to the valve body for distribution to where it is needed. return from the cooler doesnt go thru the valve body einstein it goes in the rear fitting on the case into the output shaft intermediate shaft on od units then thru the shaft to feed holes at the various points necessary ok my error like i said i could be wrong. i never claimed to be the resident trans expert but the only way to learn is to ask or have someone correct me. it is too bad that this group is full of assholes whos only ambition in life is to attack someone and you wonder why i do it back every chance i get. the part that i did mess was the converter and like i said i could be wrong. the converter is the primary source of heat what is so difficult to understand about that i never thought of it that way but i would think that the pump would be equally up to that task but either way much of that fluid goes to the cooler. i would think that the temp that the fluid is starting at would be more important than the temp it reaches after the pump and converter and just prior to cooling. hell a post cooler sensor would give more usable information than that. the converter adds heat the cooler removes it while very true both of these components are outside of the transmission and as you clearly pointed out in your flow path so what is the point of including them. the input line adds the heat added by the converter and gives an false trans temp and the output line is the cooled fluid. neither one gives an accurate temp of the transmission itself. hey einstein think about what happens in a full-stall condition where the converter adds more heat than the cooler can dissipate hint the overall temperature does not decrease if that were always true then every car stuck in traffic would be cooking its trans fluid. i would think that the manufacturers of the vehicles would have thought of that when they built the car dont you now please explain to me why these newer od automatics have such a problem with heat and seem to require so much more maintenance than the older 3 speeds like the 727 and 904. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving when you make an ass of yourself trying to explain shit you dont understand stand up and step away from the keyboard and how do you expect to learn anything new if you keep running away every time you are wrong or are told you are wrong. if you tell me that i am wrong and then explain it like you did with the return path then good for me i learned something new. if you continually feel the need to tell me im wrong and then attempt to attack me with it and in the process get something wrong yourself then expect the same thing in return. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : denny

source for a leak under pressure. plus if the tranny engineers at chryco think monitoring the pan temp is good enough for them then its ok by me. cmon mike... you know how this works. ill bet $5 the engineer said something like its best to monitor transmission temperature in the transmission cooler output line since that where the fluid will be at its hottest. then the project manager said well yes that may be true but it will cost us an extra $12 to put it there but only $0.75 to slap a sensor in the pan. well go with the sensor in the pan. to which the engineer said why do i even bother do what you want - just dont call me when the ******* thing blows up! my sensor is in the line between the tranny and the cooler by the way so youre the one that stashed that hidden microphone in the office................ bg denny .

From : mike simmons

source for a leak under pressure. plus if the tranny engineers at chryco think monitoring the pan temp is good enough for them then its ok by me. cmon mike... you know how this works. ill bet $5 the engineer said something like its best to monitor transmission temperature in the transmission cooler output line since that where the fluid will be at its hottest. then the project manager said well yes that may be true but it will cost us an extra $12 to put it there but only $0.75 to slap a sensor in the pan. well go with the sensor in the pan. to which the engineer said why do i even bother do what you want - just dont call me when the ******* thing blows up! my sensor is in the line between the tranny and the cooler by the way and mine is in the pan ^! i would be curious to actually measure the delta t between the pan and line. do you still have access to a drbiii it would be interesting to compare the two temps while driving. who knows it may even end this pissing contest we have going on in this thread............... on second thought................ nah............... mike .

From : transurgeon

please expound upon this alledged density difference between water and atf be sure to include sources of your information lol are you saying that trans fluid has the same density as water do you really want to look like a complete ass i dont see any figures or links posted whats the problem did your mouth write another check that your fat ass cant cash .

From : transurgeon

really gary from another one of your posts pan filter pump pressure regulator converter cooler gear train lube pan it looks like by even your description that the pan is before the cooler. yup but not after the pump like you claimed. and its not immediately before the cooler. i dont recall saying immediatly before anything and putting the filter in the discussion is just making you look desperate. like i said i may be wrong no you are wrong. shut up now. gfy great rebuttal not really but not much different than many of yours. but things like the filter and regulator do not change the temp are not relavent to the discussion. more bullshit. resisitance to flow is what raises fluid temp and both the regulator and the filter do this adding to the fluid temp. hahahahahahahahaha even in an area where you claim to have superior knowledge you have to say something completely ignorant and make yourself out to be a fool. unless the increase is measurable it does not exist. by your idiotic reasoning the cold water coming into your house must be burning hot with all of the resistance it encounters in the miles of piping it has to follow unless of course you have well water but even then it should be near boiling in the well itself with all of the resistance it has to deal with permeating the rock and forget the extreme temperatures it must reach coming out of the faucet if you dont have it opened all of the way lol sorry to burst your bubble there maxi but it is the combination of pressure and resistance that can generate heat. as for the filter the huge amount of surface area and relatively low pressure on the suction side of the pump means no measurable increase in temp and if you say it does prove it. if anything were to raise the temp it would be the pump moron not the filter and if you knew even 1/100th of what you claim to you could have got me there. now for the regulator since it actually lowers pressure coming from the pump it also serves to lower the temp not increase it. wrong again braniac the regulator offers resistance to the pump flow you figure out the result if you really believe that i would suggest that you change your handle to partschanger. the regulator does not offer any resistance to pump flow. it regulates the amount of pressure on its output side and sends the rest of the fluid back to the pump input which in fact decreases the load on the pump. so the spring behind the pr valve which causes the valve not to open until a certain pressure is reached is there just for looks or does the valve itself have a micro-computer built in to allow it to magically stabilize the pressure without the resistance caused by the spring the only load that the punp sees is what the regularor is set to at a given time and that is much lower than the load it would see without it otherwise in would not need to be there. oh god this is so off-the-wall i just coughed up coffee all over the monitor !!! now youre saying that there is less resistance after saying there is none with a regulator than without one better stop digging braniac .

From : tbone

tbone wrote exactly what figures are you looking for the density of water or the density of transmission fluid whos actual makeup is secret lol. the specific gravity of mopar atf+4 is 0.840 according to the msds which is public information. i can e-mail a pdf copy to anyone who wants to see it. thanks and the specific gravity of water is 1 being the standard so as i said before water is more dense. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : mike simmons

and mine is in the pan ^! i would be curious to actually measure the delta t between the pan and line. do you still have access to a drbiii i never did damn shame too ... but it would be pretty simply to rig up another temp gauge and stick a sender in the pan. the next time i tow something heavy ill do this temps under normal driving never get past 150... damn ats tranny is too efficient . may even end this pissing contest we have going on in this thread............... on second thought................ nah............... too bad... no nobel peace prize for me. ah well.... who wants to go to stockholm anyway ^ you dont hafta go just have em send you your check.... although i hear those swedish gals are kinda hot..... specially if you are a nobel prize laureate. just think.... you could be right up there with jimmy carter and yasser arafat! ;^ mike .

From : max340

ok my error like i said i could be wrong no could be about it you are wrong. or cant you admit that i never claimed to be the resident trans expert no but all the other things you claimed to be an expert in certainly would have qualified you in your mind if you had actually been an expert in those things. but the only way to learn is to ask or have someone correct me. thats never worked for you before..... it is too bad that this group is full of assholes whos only ambition in life is to attack someone and you wonder why i do it back every chance i get. do it back thats funny. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : max340

avis pa which is close to lock haven which is close to williamsport which is close to harrisburg which is close to lewisburg which is close to montoursville which is... i know where you will be. let me know when ya get to pa and if ya have time. im about 45-60 minutes away from avis. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : max340

hydraulics is the last thing that you should be criticizing anybody about mr. master cylinder. and with your infinite knowledge of hydraulics youll be able to explain how all that stuff that depends on pump pressure works when the pump is sending all the oil to the cooler. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : max340

where did i say that it just sent it to the cooler it is funny watching you in your desperate attempts to try and prove me wrong. wahts really funny is your desperate attempts to say you are wrong may be then you come back and attempt to spin your way out of it. if you knew half as much as you think you do youd realize there are several reasons why it does not go to the cooler from the pump at all let alone just to the cooler. keep spinning..... max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : redneck tookover hell

oh god this is so off-the-wall i just coughed up coffee all over the monitor !!! now youre saying that there is less resistance after saying there is none with a regulator than without one better stop digging braniac all part of the boners vast wasteland of automotive knowledge he claimed to have earlier last week must exist in some twilight zone in the boners mind politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : tom lawrence

and mine is in the pan ^! i would be curious to actually measure the delta t between the pan and line. do you still have access to a drbiii i never did damn shame too ... but it would be pretty simply to rig up another temp gauge and stick a sender in the pan. the next time i tow something heavy ill do this temps under normal driving never get past 150... damn ats tranny is too efficient . may even end this pissing contest we have going on in this thread............... on second thought................ nah............... too bad... no nobel peace prize for me. ah well.... who wants to go to stockholm anyway ^ .

From : tbone

exactly what figures are you looking for the density of water or the density of transmission fluid whos actual makeup is secret lol. here is an easy experiment that even you can handle. get a glass and fill it about 1/3 of the way with water. then pour another third of transmission fluid into it. if the two fluids sit as a semi-mixed mess then they have the same density if the water floats to the top then the transmission fluid is more dense but i think that we both know what is actually going to happen -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving please expound upon this alledged density difference between water and atf be sure to include sources of your information lol are you saying that trans fluid has the same density as water do you really want to look like a complete ass i dont see any figures or links posted whats the problem did your mouth write another check that your fat ass cant cash .

From : transurgeon

i still dont see any figures or urls exactly what figures are you looking for the density of water or the density of transmission fluid whos actual makeup is secret lol. here is an easy experiment that even you can handle. get a glass and fill it about 1/3 of the way with water. then pour another third of transmission fluid into it. if the two fluids sit as a semi-mixed mess then they have the same density if the water floats to the top then the transmission fluid is more dense but i think that we both know what is actually going to happen -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving please expound upon this alledged density difference between water and atf be sure to include sources of your information lol are you saying that trans fluid has the same density as water do you really want to look like a complete ass i dont see any figures or links posted whats the problem did your mouth write another check that your fat ass cant cash .

From : tbone

then answer the question. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving i still dont see any figures or urls exactly what figures are you looking for the density of water or the density of transmission fluid whos actual makeup is secret lol. here is an easy experiment that even you can handle. get a glass and fill it about 1/3 of the way with water. then pour another third of transmission fluid into it. if the two fluids sit as a semi-mixed mess then they have the same density if the water floats to the top then the transmission fluid is more dense but i think that we both know what is actually going to happen -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving please expound upon this alledged density difference between water and atf be sure to include sources of your information lol are you saying that trans fluid has the same density as water do you really want to look like a complete ass i dont see any figures or links posted whats the problem did your mouth write another check that your fat ass cant cash .

From : nosey

tbone wrote exactly what figures are you looking for the density of water or the density of transmission fluid whos actual makeup is secret lol. the specific gravity of mopar atf+4 is 0.840 according to the msds which is public information. i can e-mail a pdf copy to anyone who wants to see it. .

From : tbone

really gary from another one of your posts pan filter pump pressure regulator converter cooler gear train lube pan it looks like by even your description that the pan is before the cooler. yup but not after the pump like you claimed. and its not immediately before the cooler. i dont recall saying immediatly before anything and putting the filter in the discussion is just making you look desperate. like i said i may be wrong no you are wrong. shut up now. gfy great rebuttal not really but not much different than many of yours. but things like the filter and regulator do not change the temp are not relavent to the discussion. more bullshit. resisitance to flow is what raises fluid temp and both the regulator and the filter do this adding to the fluid temp. hahahahahahahahaha even in an area where you claim to have superior knowledge you have to say something completely ignorant and make yourself out to be a fool. unless the increase is measurable it does not exist. by your idiotic reasoning the cold water coming into your house must be burning hot with all of the resistance it encounters in the miles of piping it has to follow unless of course you have well water but even then it should be near boiling in the well itself with all of the resistance it has to deal with permeating the rock and forget the extreme temperatures it must reach coming out of the faucet if you dont have it opened all of the way lol sorry to burst your bubble there maxi but it is the combination of pressure and resistance that can generate heat. as for the filter the huge amount of surface area and relatively low pressure on the suction side of the pump means no measurable increase in temp and if you say it does prove it. if anything were to raise the temp it would be the pump moron not the filter and if you knew even 1/100th of what you claim to you could have got me there. now for the regulator since it actually lowers pressure coming from the pump it also serves to lower the temp not increase it. wrong again braniac the regulator offers resistance to the pump flow you figure out the result if you really believe that i would suggest that you change your handle to partschanger. the regulator does not offer any resistance to pump flow. it regulates the amount of pressure on its output side and sends the rest of the fluid back to the pump input which in fact decreases the load on the pump. so the spring behind the pr valve which causes the valve not to open until a certain pressure is reached is there just for looks never said that moron but once it opens the pressure is held at that level. or does the valve itself have a micro-computer built in to allow it to magically stabilize the pressure without the resistance caused by the spring resistance of the spring lol you are kidding right is that the resistance that you are referring to as a source of heat hell you car must be a virtual inferno with all of that weight pressing down its springs. you really have no clue at to what generates heat do you. the only load that the punp sees is what the regularor is set to at a given time and that is much lower than the load it would see without it otherwise in would not need to be there. oh god this is so off-the-wall i just coughed up coffee all over the monitor !!! in a bypass type regulator that is all that it sees. you really dont seem know as much as you claim to. now youre saying that there is less resistance after saying there is none with a regulator than without one could this really get any more childish. that is not what i said and you know it. what i said it that the regulator will add no additional resistance to the flow from the pump and is actually reducing it which lowers the heat produced by the pump. now there are regulators that work by resistance alone but they are usually found on air systems with pressurized storage tanks not fluid systems with a continious flow. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .