How much weight for winter?

From : hp

Q: my mechanic didnt find any stored codes but he did respray the ignition wires and found the rear wire nearest passenger seat arcing. today while driving at around 45 mph the ram began to buck 8 cyl gas auto 4x4 43000 miles then the check engine light came on so i pulled over . when i restarted an hour later she ran fine. it was raining when it first happened. any ideas i did spray the ignition wires with water when i got home but it seemed ok. thanks in advance -- johnnyd .

Replies:

From : budd cochran

i have a 2003 durango sxt with the factory roof rails. anyone ever use one of those hard-shell cargo carriers were driving from florida to connecticut next spring and could really use the extra storage room. any brands to recommend avoid thanks bunches! mark .

From : mac davis

on sun 05 dec 2004 211956 gmt fmb fmbb@sbcglobal.net wrote i put a set of rs9000s on the 03 2500 ctd 4wd and after a few thousand miles i have a rattle coming from the back end somewhere. it rattles when i hit small bumps in residential neighborhoods. i crawled under and push/pulled on everything in sight. the rr shock is solid the lr shock seems to be loose at the bottom bracket. its like if the shock hole was a bit larger than the mounting bolt hole and with no tension it can be rocked back and forth. is this normal is this a mounting problem tighten it up or a shock problem warrantee. i have it set to 1 with no load ill try it set to 3 later today and see if there is any difference in the rattle. or maybe sandbags for extra weight .... oh crap nevermind i didnt mention sandbags. sandbags we doan ned no steenken sanbags.. those shocks werent owner installed were they when you crawled under the truck was it on stands or still on the ground hopefully it was up on stands and you could try shaking the bracket as well as the shock mac yeah my son and i did the install. when i crawled under the truck it was not on stands. it wasnt jacked up. there was plenty of room for my belly with the trucks tires firmly on the ground. the bracket that is welded to the axle housing is firm. the bolt that passes through that bracket passes through the loose shock. -- fmb only one b in fmb .

From : scott ruby

on 3 dec 2004 192346 -0800 montanajeeper@aol.com montanajeeper wrote winter is taking a firm grip here in montana and no matter how long we idle the 04 cummins it wont warm the cab until after about 10 miles of interstate driving. trouble is its only 5 miles to work. the wifey is miserable with this and she wants me to trade it on a gas powered version so that she can get some heat. were buying her a new jeep in february and i want to hold her off on selling the 04 until then at which time ill take it over. i cant have her being cold going to and from work. i can plug it in 4 hours prior to cranking or all night long and it still wont warm up. i can plug it in all night long and then idle it 30 minutes before leaving and it still wont warm up. my old ford had an apc where i could set the rpm on anything i wanted and leave it there warming up. any way to do that on the dodge any ideas would be appreciated. thanks why not just park it in a heated garage beekeep .

From : scott ruby

i put a set of rs9000s on the 03 2500 ctd 4wd and after a few thousand miles i have a rattle coming from the back end somewhere. it rattles when i hit small bumps in residential neighborhoods. i crawled under and push/pulled on everything in sight. the rr shock is solid the lr shock seems to be loose at the bottom bracket. its like if the shock hole was a bit larger than the mounting bolt hole and with no tension it can be rocked back and forth. is this normal is this a mounting problem tighten it up or a shock problem warrantee. i have it set to 1 with no load ill try it set to 3 later today and see if there is any difference in the rattle. or maybe sandbags for extra weight .... oh crap nevermind i didnt mention sandbags. -- fmb only one b in fmb .

From : kilmister

i also have had the alignment adjustments - twice. first shop wouldnt guarantee the alignment because of the ball joint wear. after the track bar replacement the first shop adjusted my drag link and tweaked the toe and caster. the truck actually would track straight but the wandering is still there. the dealer did the second alignment when i first took the truck to them for the ball joint replacement. they put it on the rack performed their diagnostic check and then charged me for the alignment since they said the joints werent worn. now the truck pulls to the right. im not too sure the caster adjustment is good either since the control arm eccentric bolts are drastically moved from where the first shop put them. take it back and have them warantee their alignment pulling to the right is not a proper alignment job this will most likely cause early tire wear. but... an alignment should not be completed until all worn parts are replaced. im surprised that the dealership would do an alignment on worn suspension parts. i still need to upgrade the steering linkages and perhaps adjust the gearbox maybe replace the intermediate shaft. ive gotten a lead on some replacement tie rods and ends to convert from y-type linkage to inverted t-type. i think that will help the steering a bunch. if that dealership is a 5 star chrysler dealership you should fill out a customer survey and send it to corporate. put a comment that the service manager refuses to give technical information on procedures done to your vehicle. dont want to hurt this dealership - yet. i would like to build a good relationship with them because i also purchased another vehicle from them subaru which is also under warranty. its daimlerchrysler that refused to give me techical information. i think its incredible that they refused that after selling the service manual. also take it to an independent shop and verify the bad ball joint. take this information back to the dealership. and if the dealership still refuses fill out another survey. in my experience corporate has always replied to my customer surveys. i will go through the survey process if i cant get satisfaction with the warrantee process. although im not sure how effective that will be considering what ive read about dc and their dealerships with regard to some of the problems common to the dodge ram. thanks for the response john sellers .

From : tom lawrence

name a few others then. when is the to bearing utilized this does not answer the question but the to bearing is always in motion to one degree or another since it is always in contact with both moving and stationary parts while the engine is running. what other part of the trans can make that claim -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

hello! maybe someone in this group can answer this question..the wife and i were looking at a durango the other day and she told me that durangos only came with v-8s.this was told to her by another person who had bought one.any truth to that statementany reply is welcome b.h. .

From : kilmister

the only part that is always working for lack of a better word whenever the engine is turning and regardless of the transmission is the to bearing. just because it is new doesnt mean that it is perfect or it may not be installed properly and i would bet it is the source of your noise. the vibration you feel at high speed may be due to the driveshaft not being installed in exactly the same position as it came out as nosey suggested. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving julio wrote hi folks - i need a little help... i have a 98 dakota 5.2 - 2 wheel drive - 190k on the motor and tranny. i was in definate need of clutch job my input bearing lost the needle bearings and the t/o bearing was worn pretty good. the discs had barely any left left in them but werent damaging. i took it down 2 wks. ago and replaced the input bearing with a new dealer part a clutch kit with t/o bearing centerforce 2 and both u joints napa. with the tranny down i tried to feel for any play in the shafts on the tranny. spun it around and went thru the gears by hand i didnt feel anything was loose or had any bad sounds other than i can hear the gears turning with the fluid drained. i put it all back together added royal purple synchromesh and ran it now for a week back and forth to work. during this time i can feel something else is not right. i can hear a whine which rises with rpm or motor mostly if not all the time. not loud but enough. also at higher road speeds in excess of 70 or 80 mph. i can feel a slight vibration. smooth vibration -- thats not right to me.. i put my ear on the tranny shifter knob while idleing and i can hear what sounds like is a gear turning all the time in any gear in nuetral or with clutch in or out. it doesnt stop spinning. i dont know if this is normal its only a description for diagnosis. it seems to shift well not binding or hard to shift it releases ok. any ideas - and can i fix it @ home i can rebuild a motor with no problems but i never dove into a tranny. thanks the vibration may be the driveshaft. they will vibrate sometimes if you dont install it on the rear in the same position that it was before it was removed. unbolt the drive shaft from the rear and flip it 180. check the u-joints while you are back there too. .

From : mac davis

i just recently posted a couple of messages regarding no/low oil pressure...you can solve this by simply switching to a synthetic oil...i had an almost ideal situation to yours and mobil1 corrected it...i have a 1990 dodge dakota 3.9l v6 with a 153650 miles on it... george i have a 87 truck that i bought recently. well i have seen that when the motor gets hotter the oil pressure drops but i can sit still rev it and the pressure will come up alil ..i am not in a position to install a new pump and no funds to...could someone give me some alternativesto what it could be... thank you .

From : jerry

winter is taking a firm grip here in montana and no matter how long we idle the 04 cummins it wont warm the cab until after about 10 miles of interstate driving. trouble is its only 5 miles to work. the wifey is miserable with this and she wants me to trade it on a gas powered version so that she can get some heat. were buying her a new jeep in february and i want to hold her off on selling the 04 until then at which time ill take it over. i cant have her being cold going to and from work. i can plug it in 4 hours prior to cranking or all night long and it still wont warm up. i can plug it in all night long and then idle it 30 minutes before leaving and it still wont warm up. my old ford had an apc where i could set the rpm on anything i wanted and leave it there warming up. any way to do that on the dodge any ideas would be appreciated. thanks .

From : mac davis

mac davis wrote on fri 03 dec 2004 040614 gmt jerry jlrice1655@earthlink.net wrote mac davis wrote however i see far more advantage in living in a place that it isnt an issue... no snow & ice no problems... except for all the people that insist on driving 90 mph in the tulle fog out on highway 90........ jerry 99 yep.. i stay out of their way... better to leave an hour or 2 later and not have fog... get there the same time anyway yes .......... 99. old farts memory acting up again. use to have the same problem in the bay area when the fog would role in from the delta. went fishing in that stuff one time and it got so bad i had to drop anchor and sit for three hours until it burned off. never did that again. every once in awhile i would hear a outboard running high throttle then a thump an aw shit and then cursing as the current carried them out...... i think the ice and snow is easier. jerry .

From : max340

pulled the thermo stat and it was a mess. the support arms on one side separated. i figure this was due to the stress of wanting to open and not being able to. i did notice the other day that now that the cold weather has come and i am home driving again was in turkey for a few months on assignment that the engine was not warming up the way it should and was not even getting up to 150. had problems finding a stat for it but finally found one at napa. replaced it today and seems to be running fine. will know better when it warms up and i pull the 5er again. thanks for your help -- ken the engine started to over heat when i took the fifth wheel over the cont. divide in july. it was not a warm day only 74 degrees f but it did turn the warning light on. i turned on the cab heater and it brough the engine temp below the alarm setting. i started using this procedures for the rest of the trip to alask and back and did not get an egine temp warning again. could be a failing fan clutch a failing/stuck thermostat an eroded impeller on the water pump a partially plugged cooling system etc. to test the fan clutch drive the engine until up to normal operating temp. shut it down and then try turning the fan by hand. it should be very tight. if you can still spin it by hand the fan clutch isnt engaging and should be replaced. drain a couple of quarts from the cooling system then remove the thermostat housing and check the thermostat. replace it if you even suspect a problem do the old drop it in a pot of boiling water test to see if its still good. on the cummins you can pull the water pump very easily - it just unbolts from the front of the block. check the condition of the impeller. take this opportunity to drain/flush/re-fill your cooling system since you should drain it before removing the pump or youll make a big mess. many heavy haulers opt to replace the viscous fan clutch with a horton electric clutch which is either on or off as opposed to allowing some slippage like the factory viscous clutch does. if everything else checks out and youre still experiencing a problem you may want to look into this option. .

From : jerry

on fri 03 dec 2004 050811 gmt tom lawrence tnloaswpraemnmcien5g@earthlink.net wrote these laws of physics may be true in our world but are meaningless in the world where t-bone lives. aside from all the anecdotal evidence the physics lessons and the plain common sense of it all by far the most compelling fact in all of this is that probably for the first time in recorded history greg budd max jerry mike mac miles roy denny and myself did i miss anyone here are all in agreement with each other! now if that dont beat all well.... it must be the new budd. beekeep .

From : budd cochran

if he wants a really unique comparison then he should look at road bicycles. with handbrakes to get maximum stopping power you slide your heinie rearward off the seat as far as your arms allow so the rear brake gains braking ability due to a more rearward center of gravity. the center of gravity for the combined rider and vehicle moves to just inches ahead of the rear axle centerline instead of nearly over the crankset. adding weight to the rear of a truck accomplishes a similar effect when braking. you can often see the technique applied during cycle races like the tour de france when attempt to pass is being done on a curve. some simple high school physics that destroys his claim that physics proves his point. budd tbone wrote yea right jerry. anything that you say. of course this would have nothing to do with you ignorant comparison now would it. my comparison was just fine certainly far superior to any of the bull shit youve been blabbering. your attempt to bull shit out of it was simply typical and as usual tommy troll.......... ignorance is common in all of us on some subjects as it simply means not informed. however stupidity in this group is a possession you have a lock on all by yourself.......... the guy is right you really dont have a clue how stupid you present yourself do you then again maybe you do. jerry .

From : tbone

tbone wrote now i am done with this thread. you lied...again... now please stop trying to redefine the language to make help and need mean the same thing they dont. thats a true point that you yourself cant comprehend. you do not even need your truck. it just helps you to do what you wish to do. weight in the bed helps in increasing traction. you do not drive in cases where it is needed. in areas i and others drive the added weight helps sufficiently that it is needed to meet our own requirements for our conditions. now then are you done with this thread yet .

From : theguy

ninebal310 wrote i had teh cat-back dual exhaust put on my 2001 dakota 4.7. no muffler. sounds good. it seems to have a little more low end. not much but a little. $210. it should have a little less low end and perhaps a bit more mid to high if any difference at all. no muffler thatd be a bit loud! dont pass any cops that hate loud vehicles. .

From : tbone

i had teh cat-back dual exhaust put on my 2001 dakota 4.7. no muffler. sounds good. it seems to have a little more low end. not much but a little. $210. hank .

From : tbone

on fri 03 dec 2004 164707 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote yea right jerry. anything that you say. of course this would have nothing to do with you ignorant comparison now would it. geez tom. really man. listen to me please. you could not make yourself look more stupid and childish than you do. why do you keep doing this to yourself dont you have any pride at all look no shit intended here tom im just saying man. have a little bit of dignity. its just embarrassing. really it is. if you are just playing a game to see how long you can keep this going your winning and losing. you are winning in the sense that you are able to keep people responding to you and the threads do go on and on but in the end you lose big. you look like a complete moron tom. if you believe nothing else i say believe that man. if its worth that to you well...............i dont know what to say because then you got no personal pride at all. .

From : jerry

well i guess that i lied this time just like many of you in the same situation but thanks for noticing. btw this is increasing your noise level significantly. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving sorry jerry bad example. hey tom i thought you said now i am done with this thread what happened .

From : miles

as i mentioned in my previous post all i did was change the type of oil i use. my dakota is a 3.9 liter v6 that has both an oil pressure light and gauge. before i switched to mobil1 i was getting zero oil pressure most of the time and at best very low oil pressure the rest of the time. honest im not trying to b.s. anyone. when i switched to mobil1 i was doing it because a friend suggested i try it to at least extend the life of the engine until it succumbed to having no oil pressure. but from the moment i started the engine after having changed the oil its been showing normal oil pressure. the gauge has not once gone down to zero since i made the switch nor has the light ever come back on except at first startup momentarily. the only thing i changed on the engine again as previously mentioned was the oil pressure switch...and it made no difference! you can spend a lot of money chasing down a problem like this. im usually one who likes to know the root cause of a problem but while i honestly dont know what caused the problem in the first place i do know that changing to mobil1 solved my problem or at least made it go away! i suppose if i read my last post and this one id be skeptical too! i dont blame anyone for questioning what ive written but i was just trying to relate what my experience has been with my long time own i believe well cared for 1990 dodge dakota 3.9l 4x4. all i know is a switch to synthetic oil mobil1 has made a very big difference in my vehicle and i tow and haul the usual things a person with a pickup tows and hauls! cordially george are you saying that you really had zero oil pressure and switching oil brands brought it back to normal thanks martin .

From : tom lawrence

ok since i couldnt find any documentation or prior knowledge about locating or troubleshooting the sensor i just used the substitution method. i found a sending unit at a parts store for $13 instead of the $40 wanted by a dealer bought it and crawled all over the engine until i found a matching part to remove. btw for future reference on this vehicle the oil-pressure sender is on top of the block at the rear behind the intake. its a black-plastic cylindrical unit with what appears to be a 1/4 pipe-threaded nipple on the end. anyway the original unit was apparently bad since replacing it cleared up the problem. best regards martin if you wish to reply to me by email please use the address funkychateau at yahoo. my reply-to address here is a spam-blocker. two weekends ago i picked up my girlfriends 1995 ram 3500 passenger van v8 automatic for an oil change. first thing i noticed was that the oil pressure gauge was reading near-zero needle barely leaving its peg when the engine was revved. the oil-pressure warning light was not coming on though it illuminated with the key on and engine not running. before driving away i let the engine idle in her driveway for 10 or 15 minutes and listened for valve-train noises. hearing nothing abnormal i assumed the oil pressure was ok and the problem was with the instruments. its been driven several hundred miles since no new noises. yesterday the oil-pressure light started coming on intermittently and now it is illuminated most of the time so the problem has become annoying enough to fix over the weekend. i only have the haynes dodge and plymouth vans 1971-1999 repair manual so its understandably short on detail for her specific model. actually there appears to be nothing in there relating to this instrumentation or its troubleshooting. can anyone will a real service manual for this model van please tell me 1 where to access the oil-pressure sending unit. 2 assuming its electrical what measurements can i make with engine off/on to check the sending unit i have a digital multimeter. 3 if the sending unit is good what is the recommended sequence of checks to further isolate the malfunction all help appreciated. best regards martin .

From : budd cochran

very good max but that still doesnt answer the question. anyone who has driven a 4x4 knows those answers are direct answers to the question you asked. of course you should feel free to tell us what you think a 4x4 is for but the fact is 4x4 isnt for anything specific. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : nosey

tom lawrence wrote these laws of physics may be true in our world but are meaningless in the world where t-bone lives. aside from all the anecdotal evidence the physics lessons and the plain common sense of it all by far the most compelling fact in all of this is that probably for the first time in recorded history greg budd max jerry mike mac miles roy denny and myself did i miss anyone here are all in agreement with each other! now if that dont beat all well.... yep it does! ive had disagreements here with just about everyone at one time or another. but theyre just disagreements. that means they can still buy me a beer when passing through town. .

From : budd cochran

hey i believe in miracles. budd these laws of physics may be true in our world but are meaningless in the world where t-bone lives. aside from all the anecdotal evidence the physics lessons and the plain common sense of it all by far the most compelling fact in all of this is that probably for the first time in recorded history greg budd max jerry mike mac miles roy denny and myself did i miss anyone here are all in agreement with each other! now if that dont beat all well.... .

From : budd cochran

these laws of physics may be true in our world but are meaningless in the world where t-bone lives. aside from all the anecdotal evidence the physics lessons and the plain common sense of it all by far the most compelling fact in all of this is that probably for the first time in recorded history greg budd max jerry mike mac miles roy denny and myself did i miss anyone here are all in agreement with each other! now if that dont beat all well.... .

From : jerry

on fri 03 dec 2004 040318 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote but ya see roy the fact that i do drive mine in heavy and light snow without the weight in the rear clearly demonstrates that it is not needed. does it help im sure that in some situations it does but needed means that the truck cannot do it without it and with the exception of a few extreme cases it can. now you can all jump on your high horses all you want to about it but it doesnt change the facts and the fact is while it may help it is not needed. now i am done with this thread. geez tom. really man. listen to me please. you could not make yourself look more stupid and childish than you do. why do you keep doing this to yourself dont you have any pride at all look no shit intended here tom im just saying man. have a little bit of dignity. its just embarrassing. really it is. if you are just playing a game to see how long you can keep this going your winning and losing. you are winning in the sense that you are able to keep people responding to you and the threads do go on and on but in the end you lose big. you look like a complete moron tom. if you believe nothing else i say believe that man. if its worth that to you well...............i dont know what to say because then you got no personal pride at all. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote but ya see roy the fact that i do drive mine in heavy and light snow without the weight in the rear clearly demonstrates that it is not needed. does it help im sure that in some situations it does but needed means that the truck cannot do it without it and with the exception of a few extreme cases it can. now you can all jump on your high horses all you want to about it but it doesnt change the facts and the fact is while it may help it is not needed. now i am done with this thread. you dont need cutting oil for the drill bit when drilling through steel either but it helps and makes it safer. its not needed but people with common sense use it anyway. of course the operative words here are common sense......... jerry .

From : mac davis

on 2 dec 2004 144730 -0800 info@changepassinterference.com nfl fan wrote do you guys hate it when a defensive back makes a fine play and the out-of-position official calls pass interference instead i sure do yep almost as much as i hate spammers.... groups-abuse@google.com .

From : j a m

j a m wrote if you dont already know how to drive in the snow all four wheel drive will do is get you killed. gee really what a concept! .

From : tom lawrence

does anyone know van just had the mil light come on. does the key forward 3 times work any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. dont know specifically on a voyager but on rams and dakotas the key method does not work on 99s. im willing to bet its the same on your van. its unfortunate but youll need an obd-ii scantool to retrieve the codes. .

From : theguy

lol well that sent me to the map. its been 35 years since i was down that way. i used to run around that area and around bedford seymour and morgantown when i wanted to break a few driving laws like how fast i could make the trip from franklin bedford seymour and back home. my best was just under 2 1/2 hours but it was all back roads and very little highway travel. the car was a 68 roadrunner. budd close sanders in stone. probably about 2 miles west of fairfax road behind the old sanders elem. school which i attended back in the 60s. -- mark bedford in quarry stone im a hoosier transplant from the franklin area thats some dense stuff. almost like marble at times. budd it was slabs. they just fit between the wheel wells. used some good ole native indiana popular hard and just as strong as the limestone to keep them in place. iirc it was 2 or 3 slabs. -- mark and your two cents is a good answer. dont slight yourself. id be scared to drive with that much in rocks or slabs in my truck or was it crushed into fine gravel budd just my 2 cents. years ago around 78 i think a friend of mine had a 75 1/2 ton 4x2 chevy. he would put around 800lbs in his bed. he didnt have any problem driving through over a foot of snow with it. since his dad worked in a limestone quarry the wieght was free of charge. -- mark less. he broke the cable trying to get bubbas bass boat and trailer unstuck last summer. budd 69rd.8286$nu3.5899@read1..pas.earthlink.net jerry jlrice1655@earthlink.net wrote budd cochran wrote tom when i trained drivers for the indiana national guard i emphasized that even the 5 ton 6x6 dump trucks we drove did better with a couple tons of stuff in the bed. first lesson for a new 4x4 owner is you can now proceed 200 yards farther into the field before getting stuck. jerry yeah and the tow truck only has 100 feet of cable just guessing .

From : jerry

bravo!!! good job mike!!! unfortunately tom will never admit youre correct. budd mike simmons wrote try this simple experiment. place your hand palm down on a semi-smooth surface with minimal pressure. move your hand back and forth and note the effort it takes to move it. now apply downward pressure on your hand and repeat the back and forth movement..... note the increase in effort it takes to move your hand.... that is the same thing you will notice by adding weight to the rear of a 4-wheel drive pickup. here is an easier test. take an empty cardboard box on the floor. give it a quick push and note how far it slides. now fill the box with several bricks. give it a quick shove and again note how far it slides. ok miles now do your little experiment on ice ad let me know what happens. sigh i give up... its not worth my time..... yall can keep trying to convince him but im done. mike whats the matter mike cant back up what you say sigh i dont know why im bothering but here goes..... excerpted from transactions of the society of automotive engineers kosier and mcdonnell 1957 p.730. the difference between the traction available from an engine and that required for steady speed on a given grade may be used for acceleration or acceleration mi/hs=21.9 x surplus traction force/total effective car weight.... the maximum acceleration rate possible is limited by the friction between the driving tires and the road. for a dry roadway the coefficient of friction is about 1.0; but when the roadway is wet this drops to .4 to .6 stonex sae paper 539a 1962. note ladies and gentlemen boys and girls and even you t-bone that there is a direct correlation between traction and effective car weight as illustrated in the above formula. now mr. bone i have posted my bonafides where are yours! mike member sae .

From : mac davis

hey in my 01 gas 2500 hd i thought i would do that. aint happenin. different wiring harness and no sensors. i bought the console display and lights. no go. returned to the dealer. kevin hello anybody know how involved it is to retrofit the factor fuel computer/compass gizmo on a 2002 dodge cummins are the sensors and wiring already there anybody done this before and any idea of costs thanks for any input. .

From : j a m

but ya see roy the fact that i do drive mine in heavy and light snow without the weight in the rear clearly demonstrates that it is not needed. does it help im sure that in some situations it does but needed means that the truck cannot do it without it and with the exception of a few extreme cases it can. now you can all jump on your high horses all you want to about it but it doesnt change the facts and the fact is while it may help it is not needed. now i am done with this thread. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving no my truck has been driven in snow over 6 inches without anything in the back. you guys in here really are too much. so you dont have any experience operating a 4x4 in the snow with any weight in the back. that would pretty much explain why it would seem that you dont know wtf you are talking about. see tom most of us have driven in the snow with no weight and also with weight in the back of our trucks. that would tend to make the pro weight folks a hell of a lot more credible than your inexperienced opinion especially since you have not used weight in your truck. the one who is too much is you!! you dole out advice without a clue regardless as to whether it is correct. .

From : theguy

on thu 2 dec 2004 195309 -0600 mike simmons mikesim@yhti.net wrote mike simmons wrote try this simple experiment. place your hand palm down on a semi-smooth surface with minimal pressure. move your hand back and forth and note the effort it takes to move it. now apply downward pressure on your hand and repeat the back and forth movement..... note the increase in effort it takes to move your hand.... that is the same thing you will notice by adding weight to the rear of a 4-wheel drive pickup. here is an easier test. take an empty cardboard box on the floor. give it a quick push and note how far it slides. now fill the box with several bricks. give it a quick shove and again note how far it slides. ok miles now do your little experiment on ice ad let m

From : miles

on fri 03 dec 2004 022117 gmt j a m jimbob@pgh.net wrote hp wrote i have heard that also of folks are putting weight in the back of the trucks for winter driving. on my 04 1500 quad cab short bed with hemi how much weight is good to add whats the most cost efficient way. i have line-x in the bed but dont want to crap up the truck as its purpose is primarily towing my camping trailer in the good weather . extra weight will lower your gas mleage and make the truck harder to stop. jam unless youre spending a lot of time with spinning wheels and sliding stops... then i could see the advantage... however i see far more advantage in living in a place that it isnt an issue... no snow & ice no problems... ymmv and will if youre t-bone .

From : mac davis

on thu 02 dec 2004 233231 gmt mark markjean69@earthlink.net wrote can we just end this thread now you have to learn the way of the group.. after a while you recognize the posts that are done as far as the question asked are concerned but the usual 2 or 3 suspects will go along with ts bs... it seems to keep him happy and off the streets and nobody has killed him or any other reader here that i know of so its harmless.. i just tend to mark these kind of threads ignore and leave them alone unless someone emails me and says that something interesting happened in them.. .

From : j a m

on 02 dec 2004 134424 est miles unknown@unknownspam.com wrote mark wrote just my 2 cents. years ago around 78 i think a friend of mine had a 75 1/2 ton 4x2 chevy. he would put around 800lbs in his bed. he didnt have any problem driving through over a foot of snow with it. since his dad worked in a limestone quarry the wieght was free of charge. many of us have experienced the same thing. only one here who apparently hasnt is tbone who relies instead on his vast ability to guess. i suggest amending that to half-vast miles... .

From : mike simmons

mike simmons wrote try this simple experiment. place your hand palm down on a semi-smooth surface with minimal pressure. move your hand back and forth and note the effort it takes to move it. now apply downward pressure on your hand and repeat the back and forth movement..... note the increase in effort it takes to move your hand.... that is the same thing you will notice by adding weight to the rear of a 4-wheel drive pickup. here is an easier test. take an empty cardboard box on the floor. give it a quick push and note how far it slides. now fill the box with several bricks. give it a quick shove and again note how far it slides. ok miles now do your little experiment on ice ad let me know what happens. sigh i give up... its not worth my time..... yall can keep trying to convince him but im done. mike whats the matter mike cant back up what you say sigh i dont know why im bothering but here goes..... excerpted from transactions of the society of automotive engineers kosier and mcdonnell 1957 p.730. the difference between the traction available from an engine and that required for steady speed on a given grade may be used for acceleration or acceleration mi/hs=21.9 x surplus traction force/total effective car weight.... the maximum acceleration rate possible is limited by the friction between the driving tires and the road. for a dry roadway the coefficient of friction is about 1.0; but when the roadway is wet this drops to .4 to .6 stonex sae paper 539a 1962. note ladies and gentlemen boys and girls and even you t-bone that there is a direct correlation between traction and effective car weight as illustrated in the above formula. now mr. bone i have posted my bonafides where are yours! mike member sae .

From : tom lawrence

mike simmons wrote try this simple experiment. place your hand palm down on a semi-smooth surface with minimal pressure. move your hand back and forth and note the effort it takes to move it. now apply downward pressure on your hand and repeat the back and forth movement..... note the increase in effort it takes to move your hand.... that is the same thing you will notice by adding weight to the rear of a 4-wheel drive pickup. here is an easier test. take an empty cardboard box on the floor. give it a quick push and note how far it slides. now fill the box with several bricks. give it a quick shove and again note how far it slides. ok miles now do your little experiment on ice ad let me know what happens. sigh i give up... its not worth my time..... yall can keep trying to convince him but im done. mike whats the matter mike cant back up what you say yes as a matter of fact i can back up everything i say from an engineering point of view. i just dont have the ability to convince one who is so obtuse that they refuse to accept the laws of physics and the principles of logic therefore i choose not to waste my time.. mike -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : roy

tbone wrote but the fact is max that i have not needed that added weight. i never said that it wouldnt help in some situations only that is it not needed. if it helps then why is it not needed is getting stuck the only qualification of need tell ya what tom come out here with your truck. i say out here because the snow depths are typically far greater here in az than where you are. well keep increasing the snow depth until one of us gets stuck. i will add weight into mine you keep yours empty. what are you willing to wager .

From : mark

enuff alreadyyou guys all shake hand and play nice. i am going to cut a couple of 2x8sand throw 4 bags of sand in between them thats about 240 lbs. the ass end is just too light especially on wet roads. thanks all for your opinions. howard mark wrote just my 2 cents. years ago around 78 i think a friend of mine had a 75 1/2 ton 4x2 chevy. he would put around 800lbs in his bed. he didnt have any problem driving through over a foot of snow with it. since his dad worked in a limestone quarry the wieght was free of charge. many of us have experienced the same thing. only one here who apparently hasnt is tbone who relies instead on his vast ability to guess. .

From : budd cochran

iow you cant do it. the one question that should have been asked and perhaps was but i might have missed your answer. have you ever put weight in the back of your 4x4 and driven in snow more than 6 in depth .

From : miles

anyone know when the power wagon is supposed to hit the market .

From : mark

tbone wrote but because a 4x4 can use the front axle where most of the weight already is as a drive axle this weight is not needed. there ya go again with your not needed line. if you get stuck without the weight and do not get stuck with it then i guess it was needed! impossible scenerio hardly. .

From : tbone

oh gawd . . .i rather endure anything else... budd mike simmons wrote sigh i give up... its not worth my time..... yall can keep trying to convince him but im done. no convincing needed. he already knows the truth but that doesnt fit into his sad little game. can you imagine having to live in his little world even for a moment.... jerry .

From : miles

hello anybody know how involved it is to retrofit the factor fuel computer/compass gizmo on a 2002 dodge cummins are the sensors and wiring already there anybody done this before and any idea of costs thanks for any input. .

From : miles

remove spam from address to reply funkychateauspam@yahoo.com wrote in hi martin actually your problem sounds very similar to my 1990 dodge dakota 4x4 152500 miles that i bought new oh so many years ago...i too started showing low/no oil pressure but it wasnt making any strange sounds. i replaced the switch but still kept showing low/no oil pressure. all the while i was driving the truck as usual. finally because im not about to rebuild this engine i switched oil to mobil1 and everything has been fine ever since. ive put at lease 40000 miles on the vehicle since i made the switch and its running along just fine. i change oil and filter every 7000 miles. im not one to praise any oil companies products but my dakota seems happy with the switch and it is cheap when compared to an engine rebuild/replacement. in fact ive changed all my vehicles over to mobil1. no i dont work for exxonmobil or any oil companies or automotive business...i just happened to find a product that solved my problems...maybe itll do the same for you! cordially george george are you saying that you really had zero oil pressure and switching oil brands brought it back to normal thanks martin id almost bet the problem is a bad oil pressure sender. they use one sender for the light and gauge. al .

From : hp

tbone wrote lol then by your logic a cement mixer with a full load should stop much quicker than am empty one. full load i think that concept was already discussed. if you put only 300-500lbs of cement in the back it will stop faster on snow. .

From : mark

no my truck has been driven in snow over 6 inches without anything in the back. you guys in here really are too much. so you dont have any experience operating a 4x4 in the snow with any weight in the back. that would pretty much explain why it would seem that you dont know wtf you are talking about. see tom most of us have driven in the snow with no weight and also with weight in the back of our trucks. that would tend to make the pro weight folks a hell of a lot more credible than your inexperienced opinion especially since you have not used weight in your truck. the one who is too much is you!! you dole out advice without a clue regardless as to whether it is correct. .

From : jerry

can we just end this thread now -- mark that still doesnt answer the question budd. why dont you answer the question is it because you know that the answer simply kills your dumb argument -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving wrong tom. you just dont like the answer you got. and im confident the more experienced persons in the group including nate will support me. if you dont know exactly what 4 wheel drive is for then you dont need to have one. youll be a danger to the rest of the driving community and your previous posts prove that point as well. budd yet another question you are unable to answer. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving if you dont know then you dont need one. budd when you engage the 4 wheel drive that problem is instantly solved. what complete bull! but miles this is how the yuppie types use their suvs you cant possibly be surprised that tbone is endorsing this can you lol ok max exactly what is the 4 wheel drive for -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

close sanders in stone. probably about 2 miles west of fairfax road behind the old sanders elem. school which i attended back in the 60s. -- mark bedford in quarry stone im a hoosier transplant from the franklin area thats some dense stuff. almost like marble at times. budd it was slabs. they just fit between the wheel wells. used some good ole native indiana popular hard and just as strong as the limestone to keep them in place. iirc it was 2 or 3 slabs. -- mark and your two cents is a good answer. dont slight yourself. id be scared to drive with that much in rocks or slabs in my truck or was it crushed into fine gravel budd just my 2 cents. years ago around 78 i think a friend of mine had a 75 1/2 ton 4x2 chevy. he would put around 800lbs in his bed. he didnt have any problem driving through over a foot of snow with it. since his dad worked in a limestone quarry the wieght was free of charge. -- mark less. he broke the cable trying to get bubbas bass boat and trailer unstuck last summer. budd 69rd.8286$nu3.5899@read1..pas.earthlink.net jerry jlrice1655@earthlink.net wrote budd cochran wrote tom when i trained drivers for the indiana national guard i emphasized that even the 5 ton 6x6 dump trucks we drove did better with a couple tons of stuff in the bed. first lesson for a new 4x4 owner is you can now proceed 200 yards farther into the field before getting stuck. jerry yeah and the tow truck only has 100 feet of cable just guessing .

From : tbone

max340 wrote very good max but that still doesnt answer the question. anyone who has driven a 4x4 knows those answers are direct answers to the question you asked. of course you should feel free to tell us what you think a 4x4 is for but the fact is 4x4 isnt for anything specific. there is no one answer. for me it is to get me across open fields and down muddy dirt roads. for nate it was to climb big rocks. for roy it was to move snow from streets ................. the list is endless. jerry .

From : tbone

lol then by your logic a cement mixer with a full load should stop much quicker than am empty one. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving really lets see the tape. yeah really. how stupid are you figure this out to slide on ice you must create a thin film of water under the object. a box with no weight will slide easily if it even touches the ice. a box with weight will not slide easily if at all. why funny you should ask. that thin film of water is absorbed by the cardboard and the box freezes to the ice. how about this try the brick experiment with a wood toboggan. or rather try it with one person then stack three on it. i guarantee the toboggan with one guy on it is easier to get moving and harder to stop. put three guys on it and its harder to get moving and easier to stop. im done here because its obvious the rules of physics dont work in your little world. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : idaspode

but the fact is max that i have not needed that added weight. i never said that it wouldnt help in some situations only that is it not needed. is it really that hard to understand or is it just a thing to try and say that im wrong lol. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving maybe if you had more weight in the back of your 4x4 you would know. that doesnt answer anything. sure it does. it shows how much more you could know about this if you actually had experience with weight versus without weight. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : tbone

no my truck has been driven in snow over 6 inches without anything in the back. you guys in here really are too much. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving iow you cant do it. the one question that should have been asked and perhaps was but i might have missed your answer. have you ever put weight in the back of your 4x4 and driven in snow more than 6 in depth .

From : max340

that still doesnt answer the question budd. why dont you answer the question is it because you know that the answer simply kills your dumb argument -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving wrong tom. you just dont like the answer you got. and im confident the more experienced persons in the group including nate will support me. if you dont know exactly what 4 wheel drive is for then you dont need to have one. youll be a danger to the rest of the driving community and your previous posts prove that point as well. budd yet another question you are unable to answer. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving if you dont know then you dont need one. budd when you engage the 4 wheel drive that problem is instantly solved. what complete bull! but miles this is how the yuppie types use their suvs you cant possibly be surprised that tbone is endorsing this can you lol ok max exactly what is the 4 wheel drive for -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : max340

do you guys hate it when a defensive back makes a fine play and the out-of-position official calls pass interference instead i sure do and in the nfl the consequences are catastrophic. neither incidental contact nor great defense should be a 46-yard penalty but under current rules that happens several times per season. this has to stop! i am leading a crusade to amend the current pi rule. you can visit my site http//www.changepassinterference.com come see how can help. you can start helping now by replying to this thread with your opinions on the topic. does anyone have any particular pass interference calls that they would like to steam about or otherwise share with the group http//www.changepassinterference.com .

From : max340

really lets see the tape. yeah really. how stupid are you figure this out to slide on ice you must create a thin film of water under the object. a box with no weight will slide easily if it even touches the ice. a box with weight will not slide easily if at all. why funny you should ask. that thin film of water is absorbed by the cardboard and the box freezes to the ice. how about this try the brick experiment with a wood toboggan. or rather try it with one person then stack three on it. i guarantee the toboggan with one guy on it is easier to get moving and harder to stop. put three guys on it and its harder to get moving and easier to stop. im done here because its obvious the rules of physics dont work in your little world. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : dj

bedford in quarry stone im a hoosier transplant from the franklin area thats some dense stuff. almost like marble at times. budd it was slabs. they just fit between the wheel wells. used some good ole native indiana popular hard and just as strong as the limestone to keep them in place. iirc it was 2 or 3 slabs. -- mark and your two cents is a good answer. dont slight yourself. id be scared to drive with that much in rocks or slabs in my truck or was it crushed into fine gravel budd just my 2 cents. years ago around 78 i think a friend of mine had a 75 1/2 ton 4x2 chevy. he would put around 800lbs in his bed. he didnt have any problem driving through over a foot of snow with it. since his dad worked in a limestone quarry the wieght was free of charge. -- mark less. he broke the cable trying to get bubbas bass boat and trailer unstuck last summer. budd 69rd.8286$nu3.5899@read1..pas.earthlink.net jerry jlrice1655@earthlink.net wrote budd cochran wrote tom when i trained drivers for the indiana national guard i emphasized that even the 5 ton 6x6 dump trucks we drove did better with a couple tons of stuff in the bed. first lesson for a new 4x4 owner is you can now proceed 200 yards farther into the field before getting stuck. jerry yeah and the tow truck only has 100 feet of cable just guessing .

From : miles

on thu 02 dec 2004 181920 gmt theguy theguy@myplace.com wrote on thu 02 dec 2004 175346 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote all this long winded story says is that your father was a good driver and has nothing to do with the performance of the vehicles. lol it also refutes your ridiculous claim that a 4x2 cannot out do a 4x4 no matter how much weight you put in it. but ignore that part if it makes you feel more superior. it does no such thing because you did not say that a 4x4 could not do this only that your father could with a 4x2 with weight in the rear. nice try though - geez tom. really man. listen to me please. you could not make yourself look more stupid and childish than you do. why do you keep doing this to yourself snip-o im mostly a lurker here except for my wife owning a intrepid a couple of years ago i havent owned a chrysler product since my 59 plymouth but there is a lot of good info to be had here that crosses over brand lines. my question is why do you guys bother arguing with tbone from what ive seen he is obviously on a different plane of reality than the majority. ill add my nickels worth on the main question here. ive lived in the intermountain west for the last 35 years. twenty-five of those were spent in and around the salt lake valley. i worked at one of the ski resorts for many years. home was at about 4200 work was close to 9000. many times i had to go up the canyon very early in the morning before the plows had a chance to clear even one lane. often i would be going down the canyon late at night well after the plows had quit for the day. i can unequivocally state in my situation a bit of extra weight in the bed of my truck made those ascents and descents much easier andsafer. there is quite a bit more involved here than just getting stuck or not getting stuck. handling and safety were my main concerns. getting stuck is simply inconvenient sliding off a steep narrow mountain road plummeting to the boulder filled creek bed 50 below could ruin more than just your day... dj .

From : budd cochran

mark wrote just my 2 cents. years ago around 78 i think a friend of mine had a 75 1/2 ton 4x2 chevy. he would put around 800lbs in his bed. he didnt have any problem driving through over a foot of snow with it. since his dad worked in a limestone quarry the wieght was free of charge. many of us have experienced the same thing. only one here who apparently hasnt is tbone who relies instead on his vast ability to guess. .

From : theguy

it was slabs. they just fit between the wheel wells. used some good ole native indiana popular hard and just as strong as the limestone to keep them in place. iirc it was 2 or 3 slabs. -- mark and your two cents is a good answer. dont slight yourself. id be scared to drive with that much in rocks or slabs in my truck or was it crushed into fine gravel budd just my 2 cents. years ago around 78 i think a friend of mine had a 75 1/2 ton 4x2 chevy. he would put around 800lbs in his bed. he didnt have any problem driving through over a foot of snow with it. since his dad worked in a limestone quarry the wieght was free of charge. -- mark less. he broke the cable trying to get bubbas bass boat and trailer unstuck last summer. budd 69rd.8286$nu3.5899@read1..pas.earthlink.net jerry jlrice1655@earthlink.net wrote budd cochran wrote tom when i trained drivers for the indiana national guard i emphasized that even the 5 ton 6x6 dump trucks we drove did better with a couple tons of stuff in the bed. first lesson for a new 4x4 owner is you can now proceed 200 yards farther into the field before getting stuck. jerry yeah and the tow truck only has 100 feet of cable just guessing .

From : budd cochran

and your two cents is a good answer. dont slight yourself. id be scared to drive with that much in rocks or slabs in my truck or was it crushed into fine gravel budd just my 2 cents. years ago around 78 i think a friend of mine had a 75 1/2 ton 4x2 chevy. he would put around 800lbs in his bed. he didnt have any problem driving through over a foot of snow with it. since his dad worked in a limestone quarry the wieght was free of charge. -- mark less. he broke the cable trying to get bubbas bass boat and trailer unstuck last summer. budd 69rd.8286$nu3.5899@read1..pas.earthlink.net jerry jlrice1655@earthlink.net wrote budd cochran wrote tom when i trained drivers for the indiana national guard i emphasized that even the 5 ton 6x6 dump trucks we drove did better with a couple tons of stuff in the bed. first lesson for a new 4x4 owner is you can now proceed 200 yards farther into the field before getting stuck. jerry yeah and the tow truck only has 100 feet of cable just guessing .

From : mark

wrong tom. you just dont like the answer you got. and im confident the more experienced persons in the group including nate will support me. if you dont know exactly what 4 wheel drive is for then you dont need to have one. youll be a danger to the rest of the driving community and your previous posts prove that point as well. budd yet another question you are unable to answer. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving if you dont know then you dont need one. budd when you engage the 4 wheel drive that problem is instantly solved. what complete bull! but miles this is how the yuppie types use their suvs you cant possibly be surprised that tbone is endorsing this can you lol ok max exactly what is the 4 wheel drive for -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

on thu 02 dec 2004 175346 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote all this long winded story says is that your father was a good driver and has nothing to do with the performance of the vehicles. lol it also refutes your ridiculous claim that a 4x2 cannot out do a 4x4 no matter how much weight you put in it. but ignore that part if it makes you feel more superior. it does no such thing because you did not say that a 4x4 could not do this only that your father could with a 4x2 with weight in the rear. nice try though - geez tom. really man. listen to me please. you could not make yourself look more stupid and childish than you do. why do you keep doing this to yourself dont you have any pride at all look no shit intended here tom im just saying man. have a little bit of dignity. its just embarrassing. really it is. if you are just playing a game to see how long you can keep this going your winning and losing. you are winning in the sense that you are able to keep people responding to you and the threads do go on and on but in the end you lose big. you look like a complete moron tom. if you believe nothing else i say believe that man. if its worth that to you well...............i dont know what to say because then you got no personal pride at all. lol and how do you intend to do that on ice. maybe if you had more weight in the back of your 4x4 you would know. that doesnt answer anything. that was due to your fathers driving skill not the capabilities of the vehicle. that and the weight in the back of the 4x2 but feel free to ignore that if it makes you feel you are correct. the weight in the back of the the 4x2 did help it and i never said anything different. it would do the same for a 4x4 and i also never said anything different. but because a 4x4 can use the front axle where most of the weight already is as a drive axle this weight is not needed. will it work sure it will but that is not what im saying. what i am saying is that it is not needed just like a supercharger is not needed on every vehicle either. tell that to your buddy budd. why do you think budd isnt reading and finding your crap amusing in answer to me as well lol no i am just wondering how he can make the claim of never beng stuck in the snow and everyone thinks that is acceptable but if i make the same claim i am either lying or not trying hard enough. why is it that your father can do the impossible but nobody else can what did he do that was impossible nothing at all and nothing that a 4x4 with a good driver couldnt do. perhaps you get stuck because you just dont know how to drive. no i get stuck because i try stuff i shouldnt with my truck in the hopes of learning something. what do you think that you will learn this way. sounds more like a justification for abuse and stupidity too me. i have a friends truck nearby in case i screw up. so far ive only had a chain on the front of the ram once. now the 85f250 diesel 4x4 i got that stuck about four times one day. had to pull it out myself each time. and i had no weight in the back of it. it was a long day. im sure that it was. .

From : tbone

all this long winded story says is that your father was a good driver and has nothing to do with the performance of the vehicles. lol it also refutes your ridiculous claim that a 4x2 cannot out do a 4x4 no matter how much weight you put in it. but ignore that part if it makes you feel more superior. it does no such thing because you did not say that a 4x4 could not do this only that your father could with a 4x2 with weight in the rear. nice try though - lol and how do you intend to do that on ice. maybe if you had more weight in the back of your 4x4 you would know. that doesnt answer anything. that was due to your fathers driving skill not the capabilities of the vehicle. that and the weight in the back of the 4x2 but feel free to ignore that if it makes you feel you are correct. the weight in the back of the the 4x2 did help it and i never said anything different. it would do the same for a 4x4 and i also never said anything different. but because a 4x4 can use the front axle where most of the weight already is as a drive axle this weight is not needed. will it work sure it will but that is not what im saying. what i am saying is that it is not needed just like a supercharger is not needed on every vehicle either. tell that to your buddy budd. why do you think budd isnt reading and finding your crap amusing in answer to me as well lol no i am just wondering how he can make the claim of never beng stuck in the snow and everyone thinks that is acceptable but if i make the same claim i am either lying or not trying hard enough. why is it that your father can do the impossible but nobody else can what did he do that was impossible nothing at all and nothing that a 4x4 with a good driver couldnt do. perhaps you get stuck because you just dont know how to drive. no i get stuck because i try stuff i shouldnt with my truck in the hopes of learning something. what do you think that you will learn this way. sounds more like a justification for abuse and stupidity too me. i have a friends truck nearby in case i screw up. so far ive only had a chain on the front of the ram once. now the 85f250 diesel 4x4 i got that stuck about four times one day. had to pull it out myself each time. and i had no weight in the back of it. it was a long day. im sure that it was. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

just my 2 cents. years ago around 78 i think a friend of mine had a 75 1/2 ton 4x2 chevy. he would put around 800lbs in his bed. he didnt have any problem driving through over a foot of snow with it. since his dad worked in a limestone quarry the wieght was free of charge. -- mark less. he broke the cable trying to get bubbas bass boat and trailer unstuck last summer. budd 69rd.8286$nu3.5899@read1..pas.earthlink.net jerry jlrice1655@earthlink.net wrote budd cochran wrote tom when i trained drivers for the indiana national guard i emphasized that even the 5 ton 6x6 dump trucks we drove did better with a couple tons of stuff in the bed. first lesson for a new 4x4 owner is you can now proceed 200 yards farther into the field before getting stuck. jerry yeah and the tow truck only has 100 feet of cable just guessing .

From : tbone

its not spin miles. you and max just dont like to be wrong. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tbone wrote sorry max but i still dont see the word never you lose. we speak english not tbonese. nice try to spin the english language though. .

From : tbone

mike simmons wrote sigh i give up... its not worth my time..... yall can keep trying to convince him but im done. no convincing needed. he already knows the truth but that doesnt fit into his sad little game. can you imagine having to live in his little world even for a moment.... jerry .

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol now you are changing the rules. if your 4x2 gets the locking diff then so should the 4x4. the point is that there are some 4x2s that can out perform some 4x4s in some situations. quite different than the guesses you made regarding the two. .

From : mac davis

tbone wrote sorry max but i still dont see the word never you lose. we speak english not tbonese. nice try to spin the english language though. .

From : miles

tbone wrote really lets see the tape. tommy boy where is your tape of a 4x4 with weight in the bed causing increased braking distances or spinning such the hypocrite. .

From : tbone

really lets see the tape. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving try his little experiment on ice and see the results. i have. the box of bricks doesnt slide as far. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : jerry

yea your truck has a part time 4 wheel drive and is not meant to be used on dry pavement. you are binding up the drive train which is making it difficult to return it to 2 wheel drive and continuing to do this will damage the drive train. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving when in 4x4 if you turn the sterring the out side tire on the front barks like its being made to slide then break free again afterwards its a pain to get it back in 2 wheel drive any ideas .

From : miles

hi martin actually your problem sounds very similar to my 1990 dodge dakota 4x4 152500 miles that i bought new oh so many years ago...i too started showing low/no oil pressure but it wasnt making any strange sounds. i replaced the switch but still kept showing low/no oil pressure. all the while i was driving the truck as usual. finally because im not about to rebuild this engine i switched oil to mobil1 and everything has been fine ever since. ive put at lease 40000 miles on the vehicle since i made the switch and its running along just fine. i change oil and filter every 7000 miles. im not one to praise any oil companies products but my dakota seems happy with the switch and it is cheap when compared to an engine rebuild/replacement. in fact ive changed all my vehicles over to mobil1. no i dont work for exxonmobil or any oil companies or automotive business...i just happened to find a product that solved my problems...maybe itll do the same for you! cordially george .

From : miles

no because im far less of a liar than you are. you did say it even though you claimed that you didnt and i proved it. now why is it that if i didnt get stuck that im doing something wrong or am lying but for you it is completely acceptable. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving so you think everyone is a liar like yourself budd yep im reading and laughing and still looking for where i said ive never been stuck. . . . well then by all means let me help you. in post and i lived in central indiana with lots of good old lake effect snow for half my life and never owned a 4x4 in civilian life and only got stuck twice . . . both times in deep mud with new snow tires. this looks to me like you have never been stuck in the snow and were only stuck twice in your life and both times were mud. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote then most of you are wrong because it a 4x4 will beat a 4x2 with weight in the bed in just about all scenarios but i really doubt that most of them agree with is this just a guess or do you have proof i have experience that says you are wrong. besides you already established that a 4x4s abilities comes from weight on the drive wheels the front. strange that adding weight to the drive wheels of a 4x2 or the rear drive wheels of a 4x4 doesnt do much according to you. in sand ill take a 4x2 with locking diff in soft sand and weight in the bed against a 4x4 with neither any day. lol now you are changing the rules. if your 4x2 gets the locking diff then so should the 4x4. but go ahead and add more weight to the back of your 4x2 in soft sand. ill just let most of the air out of my tires in my stock 4x4 and lets go! -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

on wed 1 dec 2004 202800 -0600 mike simmons mikesim@yhti.net wrote sigh! i guess i gotta weigh in on this one..... it is absolutely positively beneficial to add weight to a 4-wheel drive pickup for traction on launch and stopping. try this simple experiment. place your hand palm down on a semi-smooth surface with minimal pressure. move your hand back and forth and note the effort it takes to move it. now apply downward pressure on your hand and repeat the back and forth movement..... note the increase in effort it takes to move your hand.... that is the same thing you will notice by adding weight to the rear of a 4-wheel drive pickup. mike a hand job .

From : tbone

tbone wrote it means exactly what it says miles that it is not needed in his situation or in most of them for that matter. sorry tommy the op talked about slush and a couple inches of snow. your statement goes beyond his situation considerably. care to try some different spin on your statement and in ice it can drastically increase it as well as cause the truck to spin. unless you really dont know how to drive or you are pushing extremes such as plowing added weight in the back of a 4x4 in not needed. .

From : tbone

sorry max but i still dont see the word never you lose. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving where exactly did i say never. right here i said that it was not needed. i dont recall ever saying never you dont make an exception for any possibility that it may be better in fact you say the opposite and in some situations it will make it worse. thats as good as a never. now shut up already. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : tbone

iow you cant do it. if the 4x2 is so awesome and can beat a 4x4 in just about every situation then why are 4x4s even made. the added expense serves no purpose in this group since not a single one of you can now seem to define their purpose compared to your terrific weighted 4x2. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving then most of you are wrong because it a 4x4 will beat a 4x2 with weight in the bed in just about all scenarios you are clueless. explaining to you why would take more time than i have and certainly more than its worth. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : tbone

mike simmons wrote try this simple experiment. place your hand palm down on a semi-smooth surface with minimal pressure. move your hand back and forth and note the effort it takes to move it. now apply downward pressure on your hand and repeat the back and forth movement..... note the increase in effort it takes to move your hand.... that is the same thing you will notice by adding weight to the rear of a 4-wheel drive pickup. here is an easier test. take an empty cardboard box on the floor. give it a quick push and note how far it slides. now fill the box with several bricks. give it a quick shove and again note how far it slides. ok miles now do your little experiment on ice ad let me know what happens. sigh i give up... its not worth my time..... yall can keep trying to convince him but im done. mike whats the matter mike cant back up what you say -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

lol ok max exactly what is the 4 wheel drive for what its not for driving at speeds used in dry weather while its snowing. driving in the same reckless style that works on dry pavement. driving too fast for conditions. driving faster than the 4x2s on the same road. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : miles

tbone wrote if what you say is correct then every 4x4 without added weight in the back should get stuck in any amount of snow or ice at all how the heck do you get to that conclusion i said it helps both 4x2s and 4x4s. from that you deduce that 4x4s without added weight would get stuck in any amount of snow and ice. your ability at logic is incredible! .

From : tbone

it means exactly what it says miles that it is not needed in his situation or in most of them for that matter. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tbone wrote where exactly did i say never. i said that it was not needed. too funny tom! so what exactly did your statement not needed really mean not needed usually sometimes or never when you leave out any possibility then the implication is never. .

From : yonzie

on wed 01 dec 2004 234107 gmt denny wddodge@woh.rr.com wrote t-boner has an ebay account! http//cgi.ebay.com/ws/ebayisapi.dllviewitem&item=5537280095 beekeep i just wonder why anybody would pay $127 plus shipping for a $125 store card. seems like a heck of a deal to me. but now to my stupidity how did you tie t-bone to this denny by some of his logical posts in this group. who else would have bid so stupidly beekeep .

From : theguy

69rd.8286$nu3.5899@read1..pas.earthlink.net jerry jlrice1655@earthlink.net wrote budd cochran wrote tom when i trained drivers for the indiana national guard i emphasized that even the 5 ton 6x6 dump trucks we drove did better with a couple tons of stuff in the bed. first lesson for a new 4x4 owner is you can now proceed 200 yards farther into the field before getting stuck. jerry yeah and the tow truck only has 100 feet of cable just guessing .

From : budd cochran

really try backing this up tbone our proof is a collective and experience backed opinion that is held by far more drivers than you have had vehicles. so its not the vehicle. you yourself claim it was my dads skill not the vehicle that made his 4x2 able to do what it did. so its not the 4x4 that does it. youve claimed that activating the front wheels in a 4x4 is the big difference because the weight is on those wheels but claim the opposite when someone suggests putting weight over the driven wheels rather than moving the drive wheels under the weight. iow you again contradict yourself. you claim weight works on the front end but it doesnt work on the back end when it comes to traction. youve got no facts or data to support your claims that more weight is harder to stop in a 4x4. you simply claim momentum and inertia forgetting other things such as efficiency of braking with balanced weight on all wheels better traction adding to the braking efficiency when more weight is on the rear wheels and you totally forget the reason for abs which is to allow the wheels to turn rather than locking them. if true and we know it is then adding weight helps keep the tires from locking due to added traction. this increases braking efficiency. now this big space down here is fro you t ofill in with your data refuting all the claims of the engineers and our experience.... max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : miles

yep im reading and laughing and still looking for where i said ive never been stuck. . . . budd all this long winded story says is that your father was a good driver and has nothing to do with the performance of the vehicles. lol it also refutes your ridiculous claim that a 4x2 cannot out do a 4x4 no matter how much weight you put in it. but ignore that part if it makes you feel more superior. lol and how do you intend to do that on ice. maybe if you had more weight in the back of your 4x4 you would know. that was due to your fathers driving skill not the capabilities of the vehicle. that and the weight in the back of the 4x2 but feel free to ignore that if it makes you feel you are correct. tell that to your buddy budd. why do you think budd isnt reading and finding your crap amusing in answer to me as well why is it that your father can do the impossible but nobody else can what did he do that was impossible perhaps you get stuck because you just dont know how to drive. no i get stuck because i try stuff i shouldnt with my truck in the hopes of learning something. i have a friends truck nearby in case i screw up. so far ive only had a chain on the front of the ram once. now the 85f250 diesel 4x4 i got that stuck about four times one day. had to pull it out myself each time. and i had no weight in the back of it. it was a long day. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : miles

if you dont know then you dont need one. budd when you engage the 4 wheel drive that problem is instantly solved. what complete bull! but miles this is how the yuppie types use their suvs you cant possibly be surprised that tbone is endorsing this can you lol ok max exactly what is the 4 wheel drive for -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote ok miles now do your little experiment on ice ad let me know what happens. i have driven on ice in my 4x4 truck with and without added weight in the bed. it stops faster with the added weight. why because the minimal added weight increases traction greater than the increase in inertia caused by the weight. 4 brakes are better than two. you can keep this argument up all you want but repeated experiences from several people outweigh your guess. .

From : budd cochran

yet another question you are unable to answer. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving if you dont know then you dont need one. budd when you engage the 4 wheel drive that problem is instantly solved. what complete bull! but miles this is how the yuppie types use their suvs you cant possibly be surprised that tbone is endorsing this can you lol ok max exactly what is the 4 wheel drive for -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

so you think everyone is a liar like yourself budd yep im reading and laughing and still looking for where i said ive never been stuck. . . . well then by all means let me help you. in post and i lived in central indiana with lots of good old lake effect snow for half my life and never owned a 4x4 in civilian life and only got stuck twice . . . both times in deep mud with new snow tires. this looks to me like you have never been stuck in the snow and were only stuck twice in your life and both times were mud. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

interesting how hell change what he says or asks about from post to post and all with complete deniability . . . .well his style of deniability anyway. budd on thu 02 dec 2004 051952 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote yep im reading and laughing and still looking for where i said ive never been stuck. . . . well then by all means let me help you. in post and i lived in central indiana with lots of good old lake effect snow for half my life and never owned a 4x4 in civilian life and only got stuck twice . . . both times in deep mud with new snow tires. this looks to me like you have never been stuck in the snow and were only stuck twice in your life and both times were mud. well kids now you see why your parents tell you what terrible consequences drugs can have. please stay off meth or you too could end up like tbone. .

From : max340

i have to agree . . . . budd mike simmons wrote try this simple experiment. place your hand palm down on a semi-smooth surface with minimal pressure. move your hand back and forth and note the effort it takes to move it. now apply downward pressure on your hand and repeat the back and forth movement..... note the increase in effort it takes to move your hand.... that is the same thing you will notice by adding weight to the rear of a 4-wheel drive pickup. here is an easier test. take an empty cardboard box on the floor. give it a quick push and note how far it slides. now fill the box with several bricks. give it a quick shove and again note how far it slides. ok miles now do your little experiment on ice ad let me know what happens. sigh i give up... its not worth my time..... yall can keep trying to convince him but im done. mike -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

try his little experiment on ice and see the results. i have. the box of bricks doesnt slide as far. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : budd cochran

this is a multi-part message in mime format. ------=nextpart000063401c4d848.e7e92e00 content-type text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding quoted-printable --=20 kenneth brennan 1 were can i get the kit to dis-engage the front end when the = transfer=20 case is in low. =20 look under the front axle section here=20 http//www.dodgeram.org/tech/mods/index.html found it thanks. =20 2 is there an after-market kit to install larger rotors on the = front=20 brakes. =20 none that ive ever seen. egr brakes has a kit to swap in the newer=20 two-piston calipers but im afraid youre stuck with the stock-sized=20 rotors. not many companies make any brake parts for the 3/4 and 1-ton = rams. i will have to look into those calipers. it will be better than = nothing. =20 3 how can i check to see if my truck has a high-speed-idle setting = or=20 how do i retro-fit a high speed idle switch. =20 if this feature was enabled there should be a label applied probably = on=20 the upper radiator support indicating the software update = authorization.=20 see http//dodgeram.info/tsb/2001/18-019-01.htm for details looks like a trip to the dealer. =20 4 is there a way to increase the size of the cooling system =20 theres always a way - depends on how much you want to hack up the = truck.=20 the big question is why do you have an overheating problem i = havent=20 heard of an inadequate cooling problem on these trucks and theyre = pulling=20 some insanely heavy loads far more than they should... like the = farmers=20 that haul 30k lbs. of hay with them. the engine started to over heat when i took the fifth wheel over the = cont. divide in july. it was not a warm day only 74 degrees f but it = did turn the warning light on. i turned on the cab heater and it brough = the engine temp below the alarm setting. i started using this = procedures for the rest of the trip to alask and back and did not get = an egine temp warning again. =20 =20 thanks for you help. ken ------=nextpart000063401c4d848.e7e92e00 content-type text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding quoted-printable !doctype html public -//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en htmlhead meta http-equiv=3dcontent-type content=3dtext/html; = charset=3diso-8859-1 meta content=3dmshtml 6.00.2800.1479 name=3dgenerator style/style /head body divfont face=3darial size=3d2/font /div divbrfont face=3darial size=3d2-- brkenneth brennan/font/div divfont face=3darial size=3d2tom lawrence </fonta=20 href=3dmailtotnloaswpraemnmcien5g@earthlink.netfont face=3darial=20 size=3d2tnloaswpraemnmcien5g@earthlink.net/font/afont face=3darial = size=3d2>=20 face=3darial=20 /afont=20 face=3darial size=3d2.../font/div divfont face=3darial size=3d2> > 1  were can i get the = kit to=20 dis-engage the front end when the transfer br> > case is in = low.br>=20 br> look under the front axle section here br> /fonta=20 href=3dhttp//www.dodgeram.org/tech/mods/index.htmlfont face=3darial = size=3d2http//www.dodgeram.org/tech/mods/index.html/font/a/div divfont face=3darial size=3d2/font /div divfont face=3darial color=3d#0000ff size=3d2found it = thanks./font/div divfont face=3darial size=3d2/fontbrfont face=3darial = size=3d2> br>=20 > 2  is there an after-market kit to install larger rotors on = the front=20 br> > brakes.br> br> none that ive ever seen.  = egr=20 brakes has a kit to swap in the newer br> two-piston calipers but = im=20 afraid youre stuck with the stock-sized br> rotors.  not many = companies make any brake parts for the 3/4 and 1-ton rams./font/div divfont face=3darial size=3d2/font /div divfont face=3darial color=3d#0000ff size=3d2i will have to look = into those=20 calipers.  it will be better than nothing./font/div divbrfont face=3darial size=3d2> br> > 3  how can = i check to=20 see if my truck has a high-speed-idle setting or br> > how do i=20 retro-fit a high speed idle switch.br> br> if this feature was = enabled there should be a label applied probably on br> the upper = radiator support indicating the software update authorization. br> = see=20 /fonta href=3dhttp//dodgeram.info/tsb/2001/18-019-01.htmfont = face=3darial=20 size=3d2http//dodgeram.info/tsb/2001/18-019-01.htm/font/afont = face=3darial=20 size=3d2 for details/font/div divfont face=3darial size=3d2/font /div divfontfont face=3darial color=3d#0000ff size=3d2looks like a trip = to the=20 dealer./font/div divbrfont face=3darial size=3d2> br> > 4  is = there a way to=20 increase the size of the cooling systembr> br> theres always = a=20 way  - depends on how much you want to hack up the truck. br> = the big=20 question is why  do you have an overheating problem  i = havent=2

From : max340

where exactly did i say never. right here i said that it was not needed. i dont recall ever saying never you dont make an exception for any possibility that it may be better in fact you say the opposite and in some situations it will make it worse. thats as good as a never. now shut up already. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : mike simmons

tbone wrote then most of you are wrong because it a 4x4 will beat a 4x2 with weight in the bed in just about all scenarios but i really doubt that most of them agree with is this just a guess or do you have proof i have experience that says you are wrong. besides you already established that a 4x4s abilities comes from weight on the drive wheels the front. strange that adding weight to the drive wheels of a 4x2 or the rear drive wheels of a 4x4 doesnt do much according to you. in sand ill take a 4x2 with locking diff in soft sand and weight in the bed against a 4x4 with neither any day. .

From : yonzie

mike simmons wrote try this simple experiment. place your hand palm down on a semi-smooth surface with minimal pressure. move your hand back and forth and note the effort it takes to move it. now apply downward pressure on your hand and repeat the back and forth movement..... note the increase in effort it takes to move your hand.... that is the same thing you will notice by adding weight to the rear of a 4-wheel drive pickup. here is an easier test. take an empty cardboard box on the floor. give it a quick push and note how far it slides. now fill the box with several bricks. give it a quick shove and again note how far it slides. ok miles now do your little experiment on ice ad let me know what happens. sigh i give up... its not worth my time..... yall can keep trying to convince him but im done. mike -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

when you engage the 4 wheel drive that problem is instantly solved. what complete bull! but miles this is how the yuppie types use their suvs you cant possibly be surprised that tbone is endorsing this can you max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : max340

if you wish to reply to me by email please use the address funkychateau at yahoo. my reply-to address here is a spam-blocker. two weekends ago i picked up my girlfriends 1995 ram 3500 passenger van v8 automatic for an oil change. first thing i noticed was that the oil pressure gauge was reading near-zero needle barely leaving its peg when the engine was revved. the oil-pressure warning light was not coming on though it illuminated with the key on and engine not running. before driving away i let the engine idle in her driveway for 10 or 15 minutes and listened for valve-train noises. hearing nothing abnormal i assumed the oil pressure was ok and the problem was with the instruments. its been driven several hundred miles since no new noises. yesterday the oil-pressure light started coming on intermittently and now it is illuminated most of the time so the problem has become annoying enough to fix over the weekend. i only have the haynes dodge and plymouth vans 1971-1999 repair manual so its understandably short on detail for her specific model. actually there appears to be nothing in there relating to this instrumentation or its troubleshooting. can anyone will a real service manual for this model van please tell me 1 where to access the oil-pressure sending unit. 2 assuming its electrical what measurements can i make with engine off/on to check the sending unit i have a digital multimeter. 3 if the sending unit is good what is the recommended sequence of checks to further isolate the malfunction all help appreciated. best regards martin .

From : tbone

cochran mr-d150@citlinkspam.net wrote what i used to do and with the liner it should even be better was shovel the snow from my drive into the bed until i had it half full. then when the weather warmed up it would melt out . . . in theory. i usually had to shovel it back out to haul some load for a family member . . .ugh! or throw a few tubes of sand in the back halfway between the axle and the front of the box. someone had an idea for setting up a wire to break the bags open in case of an accident iirc. budd i have heard that also of folks are putting weight in the back of the trucks for winter driving. on my 04 1500 quad cab short bed with hemi how much weight is good to add whats the most cost efficient way. i have line-x in the bed but dont want to crap up the truck as its purpose is primarily towing my camping trailer in the good weather . check this website http//www.freeformplastics.com/automotive.html theres a company here in sask that makes plastic moulded forms. i got them 2 years ago. you fill these forms with sand and they interlock to fit in your truck bed. i leave them on all year get great traction in winter and makes the diesel 3/4 ton ride better. i think you get about 300 lbs they are interlocked to fit together down the center and the four corner forms are anchored down to truck floor. nothing to fly around i used to put 4 cement patio blocks for weight not a great thing to have in the back if you ever get into an acciden only problem they dont work if you have fifth wheel hitch brackets bolded in truck box and may burn alitte extra fuel yonzie .

From : tbone

i didnt say or at least didnt mean to say that added weight would never help. bullshit. you said it wasnt needed. that is in no way the same thing as saying it would never help. could you possibly distort it any further. you proceeded to send 20-30 posts backing that claim to the point where you claimed 4x4 would beat a 4x2 with weight in th bed something that most of us are smart enough to know is false. then most of you are wrong because it a 4x4 will beat a 4x2 with weight in the bed in just about all scenarios but i really doubt that most of them agree with you here. what i did say and will stick by is that added weight for all but extreme conditions in a 4x4 is not needed. horseshit. it helps in all conditions but dry because it stabilizes the vehicle. why would dry be any different saying it isnt needed fails to educatate the person inquiring in what the added weight can do to help. because the one that needs the education here is you. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

when in 4x4 if you turn the sterring the out side tire on the front barks like its being made to slide then break free again afterwards its a pain to get it back in 2 wheel drive any ideas .

From : max340

lol you guys really crack me up. i simply said that putting weight in the back was not necessary in a 4x4 for his needs and not a single one of you has been able to prove that wrong. common sense says your advice is wrong let alone the vast amount of experience actual logic and even that high school physics book that you mentioned but failed to open to see if it had the same stuff as the one mike simmons read. mike simmons is not taking into account the added inertia form the added mass that doesnt exist by pressing down harder and he is also not taking into account the surface that we are talking about. try his little experiment on ice and see the results. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : max340

yep im reading and laughing and still looking for where i said ive never been stuck. . . . well then by all means let me help you. in post and i lived in central indiana with lots of good old lake effect snow for half my life and never owned a 4x4 in civilian life and only got stuck twice .. . . both times in deep mud with new snow tires. this looks to me like you have never been stuck in the snow and were only stuck twice in your life and both times were mud. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : max340

lol you guys really crack me up. i simply said that putting weight in the back was not necessary in a 4x4 for his needs and not a single one of you has been able to prove that wrong. common sense says your advice is wrong let alone the vast amount of experience actual logic and even that high school physics book that you mentioned but failed to open to see if it had the same stuff as the one mike simmons read. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : budd cochran

i didnt say or at least didnt mean to say that added weight would never help. bullshit. you said it wasnt needed. you proceeded to send 20-30 posts backing that claim to the point where you claimed 4x4 would beat a 4x2 with weight in th bed something that most of us are smart enough to know is false. what i did say and will stick by is that added weight for all but extreme conditions in a 4x4 is not needed. horseshit. it helps in all conditions but dry because it stabilizes the vehicle. saying it isnt needed fails to educatate the person inquiring in what the added weight can do to help. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : max340

tbone wrote where exactly did i say never. i said that it was not needed. too funny tom! so what exactly did your statement not needed really mean not needed usually sometimes or never when you leave out any possibility then the implication is never. .

From : roy

tom lawrence wrote okay - but i will say it your rear adjusters arent working properly and your rear brakes arent working putting additional load on the fronts causing them to wear faster. he said he has gone through 2 sets of pads in 94k on the front. strange i just now replaced my 1st set after 65k. .

From : budd cochran

tbone wrote is your reading comprehension slipping again or there it is ............ he made it through two whole posts before he started.......... like miles said in his correct post why bother... jerry .

From : max340

mike simmons wrote try this simple experiment. place your hand palm down on a semi-smooth surface with minimal pressure. move your hand back and forth and note the effort it takes to move it. now apply downward pressure on your hand and repeat the back and forth movement..... note the increase in effort it takes to move your hand.... that is the same thing you will notice by adding weight to the rear of a 4-wheel drive pickup. here is an easier test. take an empty cardboard box on the floor. give it a quick push and note how far it slides. now fill the box with several bricks. give it a quick shove and again note how far it slides. ok miles now do your little experiment on ice ad let me know what happens. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : max340

tbone wrote but in the few inches of snow and slush that he claims to be driving in i see no need for added weight in his 4x4. thats a far cry from your earlier claim that it is never needed and only makes things worse. where exactly did i say never. i said that it was not needed. i dont recall ever saying never and in some situations it will make it worse. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

but you really dont need it in a 4x4 and in ice the added weight makes it worse not better because the added traction is completely outclassed by the added inertia. rubbish. thats three times ive addressed that and many more by others who have told you that you are incorrect in this bit of misinformation. if you chose to refute our claims we want data on how it affect the braking distance. all of us know what weve seen and you have..... well the minority opinion. bring data. bs. if you know how to drive and use the 4 wheel drive it should spin out anyway. the weight will spin out whatever. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : miles

all this long winded story says is that your father was a good driver and has nothing to do with the performance of the vehicles. lol it also refutes your ridiculous claim that a 4x2 cannot out do a 4x4 no matter how much weight you put in it. but ignore that part if it makes you feel more superior. lol and how do you intend to do that on ice. maybe if you had more weight in the back of your 4x4 you would know. that was due to your fathers driving skill not the capabilities of the vehicle. that and the weight in the back of the 4x2 but feel free to ignore that if it makes you feel you are correct. tell that to your buddy budd. why do you think budd isnt reading and finding your crap amusing in answer to me as well why is it that your father can do the impossible but nobody else can what did he do that was impossible perhaps you get stuck because you just dont know how to drive. no i get stuck because i try stuff i shouldnt with my truck in the hopes of learning something. i have a friends truck nearby in case i screw up. so far ive only had a chain on the front of the ram once. now the 85f250 diesel 4x4 i got that stuck about four times one day. had to pull it out myself each time. and i had no weight in the back of it. it was a long day. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : miles

mike simmons wrote try this simple experiment. place your hand palm down on a semi-smooth surface with minimal pressure. move your hand back and forth and note the effort it takes to move it. now apply downward pressure on your hand and repeat the back and forth movement..... note the increase in effort it takes to move your hand.... that is the same thing you will notice by adding weight to the rear of a 4-wheel drive pickup. here is an easier test. take an empty cardboard box on the floor. give it a quick push and note how far it slides. now fill the box with several bricks. give it a quick shove and again note how far it slides. .

From : tbone

on mon 29 nov 2004 141850 -0500 hp howard.page@comcast.net wrote i have heard that also of folks are putting weight in the back of the trucks for winter driving. on my 04 1500 quad cab short bed with hemi how much weight is good to add whats the most cost efficient way. i have line-x in the bed but dont want to crap up the truck as its purpose is primarily towing my camping trailer in the good weather . 427 pounds 3 ounces. beekeep youre getting close. i hang approx 800 lbs on the front end of the truck and another 400 lbs of cast iron suitcase weights in the front of the bed. then i throw in a tool kit with a few spare pins a couple of hoses and a spring. toss in a few tools flashlights and a heavy duty tug-em strap and im ready for snow. denny okay all that weight in the back i assume is compensatory weight for the driver. what do you add for the plow bfg roy i believe that you came up with your assume due to personal experience with your own plow truck. myself i have no problem with weight its just those damned ears.... beat cha to it............. vbg yup ya did. bfg had one account that had a weird loading dock to a basement. the ramp was so damn steep that backing up with the plow raised the rear wheels barely made contact with the pavement. put about 600lbs of rail in to compensate for the plow/cummins. the subs with a gasser didnt seem to have a much of a problem. roy .

From : denny

max340 wrote its not necessary to stop suddenly in a 4x4 thats the same question i repeated back to him .......what did he say. then my original statement was valid you didnt comprehend what i was saying. perhaps that is my fault but it is still correct. so now you know you are suppose to be able to comprehend his fault that he is not responsible for what he wrote but what he meant to write or was thinking he wrote. if you say otherwise then you are simply spinning his words. all you yo-yos in here simply cant comprehend tbone.................. jerry .

From : roy

maybe if you had more weight in the back of your 4x4 you would know. that doesnt answer anything. sure it does. it shows how much more you could know about this if you actually had experience with weight versus without weight. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : miles

max340 wrote first lesson for a new 4x4 owner is you can now proceed 200 yards farther into the field before getting stuck. second lesson is that 4x4 will only get you stuck worse once you get stuck. 3rd lesson is that 4x4 helps you to go not stop. .

From : miles

tom lawrence wrote no it only increases traction on the rear wheels at the cost of increased weight which increases braking distance and can become a projectile if you stop suddenly which is not necessary in a 4x4. havent done much winter driving have you considering he only wants to argue it really doesnt matter does it. jerry .

From : tbone

move your hand back and forth and note the effort it takes to move it. now apply downward pressure on your hand and repeat the back and forth movement..... note the increase in effort it takes to move your hand.... that is the same thing you will notice by adding weight to the rear of a 4-wheel drive pickup. but mike.......... thats high school physics and we all know because tbone told us that simple high school physics prove that more weight is a bad thing. the only place his argument holds any water is on glaze ice and even then more weight will tend to stifle the necessary film of water between tire and ice. more weight will also tend to crush any brittle ice as well as drive studs into the ice better. but hey he knows it all so why confuse him with basic physics max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : max340

ll you yo-yos in here simply cant comprehend tbone.................. wow if i had known it was that simple. were all too stupid to understand what he says because he doesnt say it right. wow that makes things totally different by now im sure were all asking how people like tbone got so far..... and the answer is people like him keep making laws to protect the stupid people.... themselves. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : max340

tbone wrote and according to you all you need to do is throw some crap in the bed and a 2 wheel drive will run circles around a 4x4 or is that just more of your spin i stated it helps in both cases. nice attempt at spin though. actually miles that was your spin not what i said but if you believe differently show me where i said this. actually tom you did say the rear has minimal impact on a 4x4. need i quote your exact words or is your short term memory working yes you need to quote my exact words since i never said that you did. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote lol ok max exactly what is the 4 wheel drive for according to you 4x4 doesnt do much. all we need to do is yank the rear driveshaft and run off the fronts since the rear does minimal for moving or braking. yep front wheel drive is all you need. .

From : denny

tbone wrote but you really dont need it in a 4x4 and in ice the added weight makes it worse not better because the added traction is completely outclassed by the added inertia. got any proof on this claim of yours .

From : jerry

when you engage the 4 wheel drive that problem is instantly solved. what complete bull! but miles this is how the yuppie types use their suvs you cant possibly be surprised that tbone is endorsing this can you lol ok max exactly what is the 4 wheel drive for -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote i back up everything that i say miles. just because to ignore it.... you back nothing up. all you offer for proof is more of your own baseless claims your words not that of any credible source. where is your back up for your claims made in this thread oh ya a physics book. which one which paragraph that pertains to 4x4s in snow with weight added to the bed i know no need for that since we have tbones own extrapolation to relate to. .

From : miles

tbone wrote but in the few inches of snow and slush that he claims to be driving in i see no need for added weight in his 4x4. thats a far cry from your earlier claim that it is never needed and only makes things worse. .

From : mike simmons

tbone wrote and according to you all you need to do is throw some crap in the bed and a 2 wheel drive will run circles around a 4x4 or is that just more of your spin i stated it helps in both cases. nice attempt at spin though. actually miles that was your spin not what i said but if you believe differently show me where i said this. actually tom you did say the rear has minimal impact on a 4x4. need i quote your exact words or is your short term memory working .

From : tbone

tbone wrote yea any high school physics book. you are extrapolating severely here tbone. now i ask again. show your proof of your claim. .

From : tbone

lol you guys really crack me up. i simply said that putting weight in the back was not necessary in a 4x4 for his needs and not a single one of you has been able to prove that wrong. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving i suppose the key phrase here is for his needs meaning his needs would be different than most other drivers. he said 3 to 4 inches of snow and slush. hardly difficult for a 4x4 to negotiate without added weight in the back. what kind of proof do you require just proof that the vehicle would get stuck without it in these conditions. i see that practical experience is too subjective in this case. of course it is. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

like tom sez battery almost definitely. jasolution@yahoo.com jason writes i have a 97 ram 4x4 with a 5.9l 360 that has developed a cold weather starting problem recently. the engine cranks fine and always tries to fire on the first few revolutions but after about three revolutions it will not even attempt to fire anymore. to get it started i have to crank about 3 to 5 revolutions then stop then wait about 3 seconds try again then repeat the process for about 10 cycles. eventually it will wire up run for about 5 seconds then die. if i try to give it gas it dies even more quickly. after about the 5th successful fire it will then idle ok and if i give it gas really slowly i can rev it up to about 2500 and run it there for about 5 minutes then everything is fine. during that first five minutes if i turn the heater fan on high it will kill the engine i can turn it on low without killing it. after it warms up i can shut it off and it starts right back up immediately. it also runs fine no hesitation or rough idle problems. if i let it sit for more than a couple hours when temp is below 40 i have to go through the whole routine again. the plugs and wires are about 4 months old and has new k&n air filter. any ideas thanks jason .

From : tbone

i back up everything that i say miles. just because to ignore it.... -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tbone wrote really try backing this up tom you keep asking for all this back up proof etc. yet you keep making claims of your own and providing no proof at all. put up or shut up! .

From : tbone

sigh! i guess i gotta weigh in on this one..... it is absolutely positively beneficial to add weight to a 4-wheel drive pickup for traction on launch and stopping. try this simple experiment. place your hand palm down on a semi-smooth surface with minimal pressure. move your hand back and forth and note the effort it takes to move it. now apply downward pressure on your hand and repeat the back and forth movement..... note the increase in effort it takes to move your hand.... that is the same thing you will notice by adding weight to the rear of a 4-wheel drive pickup. mike no it only increases traction on the rear wheels at the cost of increased weight which increases braking distance in snow it can drastically reduce stopping distance. and in ice it can drastically increase it as well as cause the truck to spin. unless you really dont know how to drive or you are pushing extremes such as plowing added weight in the back of a 4x4 in not needed. if i can add most of the time to the above sentence ill agree with it. a few times the added weight in the back has been the difference between getting thru and turning around and going back. fair enough. in the situations that you are in while plowing i will not attempt to say what works best because i have never done it and dont know shit about it. but in the few inches of snow and slush that he claims to be driving in i see no need for added weight in his 4x4. will it help possibly in some situations but if you use the common sence that you keep talking about you really dont need it. as long as you stay in the city or the roads arent drifted too bad. in that case the common sence says to stay at home till the weathers clears up. agreed. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : roy

no it only increases traction on the rear wheels at the cost of increased weight which increases braking distance in snow it can drastically reduce stopping distance. and in ice it can drastically increase it as well as cause the truck to spin. unless you really dont know how to drive or you are pushing extremes such as plowing added weight in the back of a 4x4 in not needed. if i can add most of the time to the above sentence ill agree with it. a few times the added weight in the back has been the difference between getting thru and turning around and going back. fair enough. in the situations that you are in while plowing i will not attempt to say what works best because i have never done it and dont know shit about it. but in the few inches of snow and slush that he claims to be driving in i see no need for added weight in his 4x4. will it help possibly in some situations but if you use the common sence that you keep talking about you really dont need it. as long as you stay in the city or the roads arent drifted too bad. in that case the common sence says to stay at home till the weathers clears up. agreed. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

-- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tbone wrote lol ok max exactly what is the 4 wheel drive for according to you 4x4 doesnt do much and according to you all you need to do is throw some crap in the bed and a 2 wheel drive will run circles around a 4x4 or is that just more of your spin all we need to do is yank the rear driveshaft and run off the fronts since the rear does minimal for moving or braking. yep front wheel drive is all you need. actually miles that was your spin not what i said but if you believe differently show me where i said this. .

From : tbone

ditto on the snow tires. ive been driving in new england---vermont maine everywhere in 4x4 trucks. in 20 years of driving all ive ever needed is snow tires 4x4 and sound careful driving . most seem to think they can get by with the all season tire. ive had super performance out of the blizzaks. granted i mainly commute on secondary/back roads and take it easy. sure the back end can slip a little but its often when im gunning it too much... hell to us folks in ma all there is in vermont and maine are secondary roads.vbg roy .

From : mac davis

tbone wrote but you really dont need it in a 4x4 and in ice the added weight makes it worse not better because the added traction is completely outclassed by the added inertia. got any proof on this claim of yours yea any high school physics book. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

on thu 02 dec 2004 003612 gmt denny wddodge@woh.rr.com wrote snip as long as you stay in the city or the roads arent drifted too bad. in that case the common sence says to stay at home till the weathers clears up. denny or be smart enough to live where it doesnt snow.. *g* .

From : tbone

good question. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving t-boner has an ebay account! http//cgi.ebay.com/ws/ebayisapi.dllviewitem&item=5537280095 beekeep i just wonder why anybody would pay $127 plus shipping for a $125 store card. seems like a heck of a deal to me. but now to my stupidity how did you tie t-bone to this denny .

From : miles

i do -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving t-boner has an ebay account! http//cgi.ebay.com/ws/ebayisapi.dllviewitem&item=5537280095 beekeep .

From : denny

tbone wrote really try backing this up tom you keep asking for all this back up proof etc. yet you keep making claims of your own and providing no proof at all. put up or shut up! .

From : max340

t-boner has an ebay account! http//cgi.ebay.com/ws/ebayisapi.dllviewitem&item=5537280095 beekeep i just wonder why anybody would pay $127 plus shipping for a $125 store card. seems like a heck of a deal to me. but now to my stupidity how did you tie t-bone to this denny .

From : miles

t-boner has an ebay account! http//cgi.ebay.com/ws/ebayisapi.dllviewitem&item=5537280095 beekeep .

From : max340

for all you 4 x4 guys a i right in believing that for a small amount of slush and only 1-3 inches of snow shifting into 4 w/d would be futile nope. for me it helps in traction and braking. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : tbone

how many 4x4s have you owned in winter time how many or how many years i have owned two of them for a total of 12 years in winter time. and yes we can get heavy snow in nj in the winter time. and i lived in central indiana with lots of good old lake effect snow for half my life and never owned a 4x4 in civilian life and only got stuck twice . . . both times in deep mud with new snow tires. if thats the case then why are you involved in this discussion good question . . it appears you should have been left in coventry a little longer. and yet you replied again. since you never owned one you have zero experience with them. now lets see zero to 12 years... while 12 years doesnt make me the all knowing expert by a long shot it gives me much more experience than it does you. hello what part of driving instructor dont you comprehend military vehicles are 4x4 6x6 and etc. i have far more experience than you since i often drove the jeeps land cruisers etc. belonging to friends as well over that period of 38 years. lol ok budd you have done everything better than i did. does that make you feel better tom when i trained drivers for the indiana national guard i emphasized that even the 5 ton 6x6 dump trucks we drove did better with a couple tons of stuff in the bed. im sure that they did but we are not talking about military vehicles in extreme situations. actually tom we are talking all wheel drive capable vehicles not just 4x4s and 6x6 info applies much better than you know. btw empty an m35a1 5 ton dump weighs about 5 times what your 4x4 weighs and it still needed a load in the back to handle slick conditions. darn tactical tires!!!! well now it seems that the problem there was the bad tires not the drive train. yeah right tom . . like i could just go out and order a set of whatever tires i wanted for the vehicles . . . i never said that you could but the point still is that you real problem was the tires on those vehicles. the point was the drivers needed to be trained much better to enable them to operate safely which means the instructor me had to know what was needed to train them and that required experience. and who trained you a 4x4 with nothing in the bed will outperform any 2 wheel drive vehicle of the same type in a given situation and in just about all cases the extra weight in not needed. a given situation lol i can think of more than once ive out performed a 4x4 with an old valiant or dart that ive owned. talk about someone who just likes to argue. notice that the key word there was you out performed not the vehicle. perhaps it was a combination of your driving skills and the light weight and skinny tires that your dart / valiant had which also proves my point that added weight does not always help. lol no the fact is there are circumstances like high speed cornering where 4x4 by design is not as good. a situation you claimed did not exist. really where did i make this claim we were talking about traction in snow. what exactly does that have to do with high speed cornering of course the diffierence might be that i knew a bit more about how to handle those situations at the time than the other drivers. or it was a fast corner taken in a four wheel drift or . . . like i said you are now attributing your outhandling of the 4x4 to your driving skill not the ability of the vehicle. btw i guess that you just missed the part about similar vehicles that i mentioned. no i missed nothing you said the same type . . .all are technically automobiles. your lack of accuracy strikes again thats all. lol what a loser. a truck is not the same type of vehicle as a car and even in cars a compact is not the same type as a stretch limo so once again you make a fool out of yourself. sorry tom but youre dead wrong to make such a claim if not totally ignorant about it. sorry budd but you had better learn how to read and then comprehend what i said before saying that i am wrong. the only one acting ignorantly more like childishly in this discussion here is you. yeah sure and all you want to do as jerry has said is start more arguments. wrong. i said onr thing and look who jumped in starting crap you miles jerry and max. oh lets not forget about roy as well. will added weight in the rear help possibly in some situations but in others like ice it will actually make it worse. horse hooey! sorry again budd but the laws of physics back me up here. the coefficient of friction of ice is very low so adding weight will have little effect on the force of friction traction but will still increase the mass inertia of the object just the same. go look it up. the engineering of a vehicle can compensate for your touted physics. yes it can to a degree but it cant change the coefficient of friction of

From : bks

adding weight to a 4x4 serves no real purpose wrong. no it isnt. this is just your opinion. but still adds all of the problems and dangers that come along with doing that. yes there are problems and dangers but nothing a bit of common sense cant solve. of course when lacking common sense you dont need weight in tyhe back of a 4x4 thats what the 4 wheel drive is for i can see where weight would be a huge problem. i have never added weight to the back of any of my 4x4s and have yet to spin out or get stuck in the snow. i guess that you really just dont know how to drive. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : roy

no it only increases traction on the rear wheels at the cost of increased weight which increases braking distance in snow it can drastically reduce stopping distance. and in ice it can drastically increase it as well as cause the truck to spin. unless you really dont know how to drive or you are pushing extremes such as plowing added weight in the back of a 4x4 in not needed. will it help possibly in some situations but if you use the common sence that you keep talking about you really dont need it. and can become a projectile if you stop suddenly only if you use iron pipe. anything that can move that has significant mass can be dangerous. which is not necessary in a 4x4. its not necessary to stop suddenly in a 4x4 then why worry about extra weight yawn that is not what i said and you know it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

ditto on the snow tires. ive been driving in new england---vermont maine everywhere in 4x4 trucks. in 20 years of driving all ive ever needed is snow tires 4x4 and sound careful driving . granted i mainly commute on secondary/back roads and take it easy. sure the back end can slip a little but its often when im gunning it too much... i have heard that also of folks are putting weight in the back of the trucks for winter driving. on my 04 1500 quad cab short bed with hemi how much weight is good to add whats the most cost efficient way. i have line-x in the bed but dont want to crap up the truck as its purpose is primarily towing my camping trailer in the good weather . if you have a dedicated snow tire you shouldnt need a bunch of weight. 200lbs. of secured weight should do it. roy .

From : tbone

no it only increases traction on the rear wheels at the cost of increased weight which increases braking distance in snow it can drastically reduce stopping distance. and in ice it can drastically increase it as well as cause the truck to spin. unless you really dont know how to drive or you are pushing extremes such as plowing added weight in the back of a 4x4 in not needed. if i can add most of the time to the above sentence ill agree with it. a few times the added weight in the back has been the difference between getting thru and turning around and going back. will it help possibly in some situations but if you use the common sence that you keep talking about you really dont need it. as long as you stay in the city or the roads arent drifted too bad. in that case the common sence says to stay at home till the weathers clears up. denny .

From : tbone

how many 4x4s have you owned in winter time how many or how many years i have owned two of them for a total of 12 years in winter time. and yes we can get heavy snow in nj in the winter time. tom when i trained drivers for the indiana national guard i emphasized that even the 5 ton 6x6 dump trucks we drove did better with a couple tons of stuff in the bed. im sure that they did but we are not talking about military vehicles in extreme situations. a 4x4 with nothing in the bed will outperform any 2 wheel drive vehicle of the same type in a given situation and in just about all cases the extra weight in not needed. will added weight in the rear help possibly in some situations but in others like ice it will actually make it worse. you are so friggin misinformed it is sad. really try backing this up and we are talking about standard tires not studded. a bit of advice if i may . . . drop the belief that having 4x4 means you can go thru anything youll stay out of more ditches and stay upright much longer. i never said that a 4x4 can go through anything but it can go thru far more than a 4x2 with 500 lbs of crap in the bed. i have driven 4x4s thru snow of various levels for 12 years without anything extra in the bed and have yet to get stuck. then you havent been in deep snow everybody gets stuck at on time or another.. really tell that to budd who also never got stuck and went through 15 inches of snow by piling some of it on his trunk lid. i didnt get stuck for the very thing that others keep saying i used common sense. if i thought that i would get stuck i didnt go that way. perhaps you didnt have the choice while plowing or thought that you were just too good to get stuck but i dont make those assumptions about myself or my vehicles. i suppose you never chained up a 4x4 either have you. you might try getting of the gsp for a change lol i dont always use the gsp and where i lived snow plows are few and far between. as for chains why would i need them according to you guys a few hundred pounds of stuff in the back should make me unstoppable lol. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tom lawrence wrote okay - but i will say it your rear adjusters arent working properly and your rear brakes arent working putting additional load on the fronts causing them to wear faster. he said he has gone through 2 sets of pads in 94k on the front. strange i just now replaced my 1st set after 65k. the factory set wore out in about 32000 and i have seen many posts in hear of others saying the same thing for my year truck. the second set failed at 90000 when one of the pads failed. the other three still had abot 2/3 of their material left but one lost its friction material and took out the rotor. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

on mon 29 nov 2004 141850 -0500 hp howard.page@comcast.net wrote i have heard that also of folks are putting weight in the back of the trucks for winter driving. on my 04 1500 quad cab short bed with hemi how much weight is good to add whats the most cost efficient way. i have line-x in the bed but dont want to crap up the truck as its purpose is primarily towing my camping trailer in the good weather . 427 pounds 3 ounces. beekeep youre getting close. i hang approx 800 lbs on the front end of the truck and another 400 lbs of cast iron suitcase weights in the front of the bed. then i throw in a tool kit with a few spare pins a couple of hoses and a spring. toss in a few tools flashlights and a heavy duty tug-em strap and im ready for snow. denny okay all that weight in the back i assume is compensatory weight for the driver. what do you add for the plow bfg roy i believe that you came up with your assume due to personal experience with your own plow truck. myself i have no problem with weight its just those damned ears.... beat cha to it............. vbg yup ya did. bfg had one account that had a weird loading dock to a basement. the ramp was so damn steep that backing up with the plow raised the rear wheels barely made contact with the pavement. put about 600lbs of rail in to compensate for the plow/cummins. the subs with a gasser didnt seem to have a much of a problem. roy i got one of those stupid loading docks myself. i found that backing down and pushing out is the only way to do it. then i can back drag what is left out. the bitch is when it gets a little ice under the snow. even with the weight in the back sometimes i have to lift the blade so most of the weight is on the truck and just skimming the concrete to make it up the ramp. im sure there are a few guys cursing the engineer that designed ground level loading docks in snow country. still sitting here all hooked up and nowhere to go. denny .

From : miles

if it is a 4x4 you dont need to add anything. another bit of bad advice from tbone. yawn here we go. as long as the rear of the truck weighs less than the front a danger exists in swapping ends. on dry pavement this isnt a real hazard but in snow it can be very interesting. while most of the long bed/extended cabs are hard to put sideways this tendancy will increase with shorter wheelbase. hahahahaha that goes for a car as well. further increasing the weight on the rear axle not only increases traction but braking as well. in snow any increase in braking is good thus you do need to add weight if you so desire. but you really dont need it in a 4x4 and in ice the added weight makes it worse not better because the added traction is completely outclassed by the added inertia. the biggest part of putting weight in the rear of the truck is to be sure it will not slide around or be a hazard in itself. past that its a question of how much weight you feel like hefting into the bed of the truck. bs. if you know how to drive and use the 4 wheel drive it should spin out anyway. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : denny

lol you guys really crack me up. i simply said that putting weight in the back was not necessary in a 4x4 for his needs and not a single one of you has been able to prove that wrong. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving i suppose the key phrase here is for his needs meaning his needs would be different than most other drivers. what kind of proof do you require i see that practical experience is too subjective in this case. denny .

From : tbone

on mon 29 nov 2004 141850 -0500 hp howard.page@comcast.net wrote i have heard that also of folks are putting weight in the back of the trucks for winter driving. on my 04 1500 quad cab short bed with hemi how much weight is good to add whats the most cost efficient way. i have line-x in the bed but dont want to crap up the truck as its purpose is primarily towing my camping trailer in the good weather . 427 pounds 3 ounces. beekeep youre getting close. i hang approx 800 lbs on the front end of the truck and another 400 lbs of cast iron suitcase weights in the front of the bed. then i throw in a tool kit with a few spare pins a couple of hoses and a spring. toss in a few tools flashlights and a heavy duty tug-em strap and im ready for snow. denny okay all that weight in the back i assume is compensatory weight for the driver. what do you add for the plow bfg roy i believe that you came up with your assume due to personal experience with your own plow truck. myself i have no problem with weight its just those damned ears.... beat cha to it............. vbg denny .

From : denny

i think that the real problem is your battery. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving sometime ago my dome light quit working. now if i accidentally turn the light switch to the position where the dome light should come on and i leave it sit over night it discharges the battery where the van will not start. the dome light will not come on when i open either front or passenger door but the back dome lights do come on when i open either the side door or back door however if i leave the doors open more than a hour or two the battery will run down to where the van wont start. i removed the front dome light and used a tester and found power to both the black and white wires is this right im trying to figure out if the problem is the light switch the dome light or the door switches. any help would be appreciated thanks. al .

From : budd cochran

adding weight to a 4x4 serves no real purpose wrong. but still adds all of the problems and dangers that come along with doing that. yes there are problems and dangers but nothing a bit of common sense cant solve. of course when lacking common sense you dont need weight in tyhe back of a 4x4 thats what the 4 wheel drive is for i can see where weight would be a huge problem. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : max340

looks like we both thought wrong about him. budd tbone wrote sorry jerry but it is you who is bsing here to cover for your lame spin about me saying 4x4s not needing to stop suddenly when you knew that i was talking about the load not needing to be there but like you said why bother. here is what i said what 4x4s never have to stop suddenly you see where i said you said anything. its a question tom. no my mistake was after not seeing you post for several weeks i actually thought you might have decided to start carrying on a conversation in this group without the crap. i was wrong............. and so are you but you already know that dont you. jerry .

From : max340

a given situation lol i can think of more than once ive out performed a 4x4 with an old valiant or dart that ive owned. i pulled a frame hung 4x4 off a snow pile with a 73 dart sitting on packedsnow/ice in a parking lot. the key things that helped were 1 common sense 2 competent tiffini from montana in the 4x4 instead of an inept mike who was the owner and got it frame hung 3 180 pounds of rail in the trunk of the dart max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : budd cochran

a 4x4 with nothing in the bed will outperform any 2 wheel drive vehicle of the same type in a given situation and in just about all cases the extra weight in not needed. horse shit. my now deceased father never owned a 4x4 and never needed one. he would regularly drive into situations where little or no road access existed due to the job he had. funny how railroad tracks never seem to stay close to highway access. dads best truck was a 75 dodge d150 2wd with a set of monster snow tires on the back 235/75/15 with huge lugs and the bed full of tools. he was never stuck on the road and rarely stuck off road. in the rare case that he was he was easily able to get the truck out under its own power. i suspect that despite the fact that my truck is a diesel inline six with a dodge dropped over it hed still laugh at me for needing four wheel drive. will added weight in the rear help possibly in some situations but in others like ice it will actually make it worse. more crap. more weight in the back tends to move the point of rotation in a spin towards the rear of the truck where it can more easily be countered. i never said that a 4x4 can go through anything but it can go thru far more than a 4x2 with 500 lbs of crap in the bed. see above. i have driven 4x4s thru snow of various levels for 12 years without anything extra in the bed and have yet to get stuck. then you have yet to do any real driving in snow. anyone who has has gotten stuck. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : tom lawrence

first lesson for a new 4x4 owner is you can now proceed 200 yards farther into the field before getting stuck. second lesson is that 4x4 will only get you stuck worse once you get stuck. conclusion you can cover more ground till you get stuck and once there youll be stuck worse. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : max340

tbone wrote lol sorry miles but most of the braking is done by the front not the rear. adding weight to the rear just increases the mass that the front brakes must attempt to stop. oh i see so cars/trucks really do not need rear brakes right lol sorry tbone while it is true that the front does more of the braking all 4 tires contribute and the rear % is substantial. oh really. then please explain to me how my truck can go thru 2 sets of front pads in its 94000 miles and yet the rear shoes look brand new. now i know that you coud say that there may be a problem with my rear brakes but the truck still stops with no problem and it passed the nj inspection brake test every time that it went in. most of us here have figured out that dc self adjusters suck and adjust them by hand so the rear brakes actually do some work. oh i bet i have spent more time in snow than you have dreamed of but that dont really mean shit. what does mean shit is that a couple of hundred pounds of secured weight in the back of the truck will improve both traction and braking. especially in a cummins powered truck due to the added weight of the cummins engine. now i suppose you want to know how i know this to be true dont ya sure ya do in fact your little fingers are getting all sweaty in anticipation arent they heres your answer practical application. ya know tom this is one of those threads where you come off looking like a fool again imo. roy .

From : max340

no it only increases traction on the rear wheels at the cost of increased weight which increases braking distance in snow it can drastically reduce stopping distance. and can become a projectile if you stop suddenly only if you use iron pipe. which is not necessary in a 4x4. its not necessary to stop suddenly in a 4x4 then why worry about extra weight max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : roy

wow! did i stir the pot starting this topic! not really. just that our resident expert in everything and who is never wrong happened to do what he does best. for all you 4 x4 guys a i right in believing that for a small amount of slush and only 1-3 inches of snow shifting into 4 w/d would be futile id say it would help. slush can steer your truck all over the place haveing the front wheels under power pulling will give you better control. roy .

From : tom lawrence

why in never-never-neverland of course. never admit that youre wrong never back up claims and never show more that one working braincell at a time. budd again you assume things. i have easily as much if not more experience than you since i was in the military for 12 1/2 years and drove borrowed 4x4s whenever i wanted. no budd... you never had your name on the title of a 4x4 vehicle so you couldnt possibly know anything. chuck yeager never owned a jet aircraft so he couldnt speak with authority on their operation either. its gotta be tough going through life knowing more than everyone else.... i wonder how he does it .

From : max340

how many 4x4s have you owned in winter time how many or how many years i have owned two of them for a total of 12 years in winter time. and yes we can get heavy snow in nj in the winter time. tom when i trained drivers for the indiana national guard i emphasized that even the 5 ton 6x6 dump trucks we drove did better with a couple tons of stuff in the bed. im sure that they did but we are not talking about military vehicles in extreme situations. a 4x4 with nothing in the bed will outperform any 2 wheel drive vehicle of the same type in a given situation and in just about all cases the extra weight in not needed. will added weight in the rear help possibly in some situations but in others like ice it will actually make it worse. you are so friggin misinformed it is sad. a bit of advice if i may . . . drop the belief that having 4x4 means you can go thru anything youll stay out of more ditches and stay upright much longer. i never said that a 4x4 can go through anything but it can go thru far more than a 4x2 with 500 lbs of crap in the bed. i have driven 4x4s thru snow of various levels for 12 years without anything extra in the bed and have yet to get stuck. then you havent been in deep snow everybody gets stuck at on time or another. i suppose you never chained up a 4x4 either have you. you might try getting of the gsp for a change. roy if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : roy

again you assume things. i have easily as much if not more experience than you since i was in the military for 12 1/2 years and drove borrowed 4x4s whenever i wanted. no budd... you never had your name on the title of a 4x4 vehicle so you couldnt possibly know anything. chuck yeager never owned a jet aircraft so he couldnt speak with authority on their operation either. its gotta be tough going through life knowing more than everyone else.... i wonder how he does it .

From : max340

oh really. then please explain to me how my truck can go thru 2 sets of front pads in its 94000 miles and yet the rear shoes look brand new. now i know that you coud say that there may be a problem with my rear brakes but the truck still stops with no problem and it passed the nj inspection brake test every time that it went in. okay - but i will say it your rear adjusters arent working properly and your rear brakes arent working putting additional load on the fronts causing them to wear faster. the fact that the pathetic nj skidpad test says your brakes are ok is meaningless.... they failed my buddys 3/4-ton chevy because the skidpad showed the rear brakes were starting to skid. i said no kidding... its a truck and its empty. what do you think will happen with a load in the bed that doesnt matter - it failed the test. i then asked so we have to adjust the brakes so that theyre unsafe when eavily loaded endangering everyone on the road just to pass your stupid test yes was the answer. we drove down the road to a stone place got a load of gravel in the bed took it back and it passed without a problem. the fact that most of the weight is already on the front axle and when you stop the suspension transfers even more of the applied weight to the front shows that the rear brakes % is minimal. less than the front absolutely. minimal/unnecessary even when empty no way... my 95 stops noticably better when i adjust the rear brakes. by keeping them adjusted i get more life out of the fronts as well. now have i done a test to determine the difference in distance between stopping with the rear unadjusted vs. adjusted no... youre going to have to take my word for it. bottom line... increased weight over the rear axle increases the amount of traction those rear tires have. more traction-better handling whether 4x4 4x2 6x6 or whatever. just because the rear tires cant spin out of control unless the fronts are also spinning out of control doesnt mean they cant still lose traction and slide sideways - something thats diminished with increased traction. .

From : budd cochran

if it is a 4x4 you dont need to add anything. another bit of bad advice from tbone. as long as the rear of the truck weighs less than the front a danger exists in swapping ends. on dry pavement this isnt a real hazard but in snow it can be very interesting. while most of the long bed/extended cabs are hard to put sideways this tendancy will increase with shorter wheelbase. further increasing the weight on the rear axle not only increases traction but braking as well. in snow any increase in braking is good thus you do need to add weight if you so desire. the biggest part of putting weight in the rear of the truck is to be sure it will not slide around or be a hazard in itself. past that its a question of how much weight you feel like hefting into the bed of the truck. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .

From : miles

sometime ago my dome light quit working. now if i accidentally turn the light switch to the position where the dome light should come on and i leave it sit over night it discharges the battery where the van will not start. the dome light will not come on when i open either front or passenger door but the back dome lights do come on when i open either the side door or back door however if i leave the doors open more than a hour or two the battery will run down to where the van wont start. i removed the front dome light and used a tester and found power to both the black and white wires is this right im trying to figure out if the problem is the light switch the dome light or the door switches. any help would be appreciated thanks. al .

From : tbone

any ideas battery. replace it - or at least take it and have it load-tested then replaced when the load test reveals that its bad. .

From : tbone

while many of those symptoms sound like the fuel pump the fan part is confusing. check your battery i bet that it is going bad. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving i have a 97 ram 4x4 with a 5.9l 360 that has developed a cold weather starting problem recently. the engine cranks fine and always tries to fire on the first few revolutions but after about three revolutions it will not even attempt to fire anymore. to get it started i have to crank about 3 to 5 revolutions then stop then wait about 3 seconds try again then repeat the process for about 10 cycles. eventually it will wire up run for about 5 seconds then die. if i try to give it gas it dies even more quickly. after about the 5th successful fire it will then idle ok and if i give it gas really slowly i can rev it up to about 2500 and run it there for about 5 minutes then everything is fine. during that first five minutes if i turn the heater fan on high it will kill the engine i can turn it on low without killing it. after it warms up i can shut it off and it starts right back up immediately. it also runs fine no hesitation or rough idle problems. if i let it sit for more than a couple hours when temp is below 40 i have to go through the whole routine again. the plugs and wires are about 4 months old and has new k&n air filter. any ideas thanks jason .

From : tbone

tbone wrote sorry jerry but it is you who is bsing here to cover for your lame spin about me saying 4x4s not needing to stop suddenly when you knew that i was talking about the load not needing to be there but like you said why bother. here is what i said what 4x4s never have to stop suddenly you see where i said you said anything. its a question tom. then my origionl statement was valid you didnt comprehend what i was saying. perhaps that is my fault but it is still correct. no my mistake was after not seeing you post for several weeks i actually thought you might have decided to start carrying on a conversation in this group without the crap. i was wrong............. and so are you but you already know that dont you. lol just because i dont agree with you doesnt make me wrong. the fact that you have to resort to your oh so typical he is just a troll starting crap shows that you really cant back up what you are saying and just want to stick to the urban legend junk. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : jerry

tbone wrote lol sorry miles but most of the braking is done by the front not the rear. adding weight to the rear just increases the mass that the front brakes must attempt to stop. oh i see so cars/trucks really do not need rear brakes right lol sorry tbone while it is true that the front does more of the braking all 4 tires contribute and the rear % is substantial. oh really. then please explain to me how my truck can go thru 2 sets of front pads in its 94000 miles and yet the rear shoes look brand new. now i know that you coud say that there may be a problem with my rear brakes but the truck still stops with no problem and it passed the nj inspection brake test every time that it went in. the fact that most of the weight is already on the front axle and when you stop the suspension transfers even more of the applied weight to the front shows that the rear brakes % is minimal. so heres tbones design for a great vehicle for the snow. a front wheel drive truck with front only brakes. think it will sell lol getting desperate now are we i never said that the rear brakes did nothing only that there effect was minimal but if you have a trailer on the vehicle then their work load increases substantially so eliminating them would be foolish. as for a front wheel drive there is the torque steer and cv joint issues to deal with which would make doing that difficult. either way it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

how many 4x4s have you owned in winter time how many or how many years i have owned two of them for a total of 12 years in winter time. and yes we can get heavy snow in nj in the winter time. and i lived in central indiana with lots of good old lake effect snow for half my life and never owned a 4x4 in civilian life and only got stuck twice . . . both times in deep mud with new snow tires. if thats the case then why are you involved in this discussion since you never owned one you have zero experience with them. now lets see zero to 12 years... while 12 years doesnt make me the all knowing expert by a long shot it gives me much more experience than it does you. tom when i trained drivers for the indiana national guard i emphasized that even the 5 ton 6x6 dump trucks we drove did better with a couple tons of stuff in the bed. im sure that they did but we are not talking about military vehicles in extreme situations. actually tom we are talking all wheel drive capable vehicles not just 4x4s and 6x6 info applies much better than you know. btw empty an m35a1 5 ton dump weighs about 5 times what your 4x4 weighs and it still needed a load in the back to handle slick conditions. darn tactical tires!!!! well now it seems that the problem there was the bad tires not the drive train. a 4x4 with nothing in the bed will outperform any 2 wheel drive vehicle of the same type in a given situation and in just about all cases the extra weight in not needed. a given situation lol i can think of more than once ive out performed a 4x4 with an old valiant or dart that ive owned. talk about someone who just likes to argue. notice that the key word there was you out performed not the vehicle. perhaps it was a combination of your driving skills and the light weight and skinny tires that your dart / valiant had which also proves my point that added weight does not always help. of course the diffierence might be that i knew a bit more about how to handle those situations at the time than the other drivers. or it was a fast corner taken in a four wheel drift or . . . like i said you are now attributing your outhandling of the 4x4 to your driving skill not the ability of the vehicle. btw i guess that you just missed the part about similar vehicles that i mentioned. sorry tom but youre dead wrong to make such a claim if not totally ignorant about it. sorry budd but you had better learn how to read and then comprehend what isaid before saying that i am wrong. the only one acting ignorantly more like childishly in this discussion here is you. will added weight in the rear help possibly in some situations but in others like ice it will actually make it worse. horse hooey! sorry again budd but the laws of physics back me up here. the coefficient of friction of ice is very low so adding weight will have little effect on the force of friction traction but will still increase the mass inertia of the object just the same. go look it up. a bit of advice if i may . . . drop the belief that having 4x4 means you can go thru anything youll stay out of more ditches and stay upright much longer. i never said that a 4x4 can go through anything but it can go thru far more than a 4x2 with 500 lbs of crap in the bed. really and your proof is my proof is in the distribution of weight over the drive axles. i mentioned putting snow in a truck bed but i also used to pile the snow on the back of my cars on the trunk lid to add weight. it worked on them too. perhaps it did but once again you are comparing apples to oranges. your car is also a two wheel drive with more weight on the front non driving axles than in the rear so adding weight gives a little more traction to the rear at the cost of adding more mass but i bet that you didnt add 500 lbs of snow to your trunk lid. btw did you attempt it without the snow on the trunk and were unable to get thru if not then you dont know if the snow on the trunk lid helped or not. for all you know it may have hurt. how do you think i got thru 15 of wet snow with bald radial tires for seven miles and there were jeeps in the ditch on that same road driving skill and luck. i have driven 4x4s thru snow of various levels for 12 years without anything extra in the bed and have yet to get stuck. 12 years and youre the expert . . .right. i didnt say that i only have driven for 12 years or that even driven in snow for only 12 years. i simply said that i owned a 4x4 of one type or another for 12 years which btw is 12 more years than you did. how does that compare to 38 years of driving experience tom with winters in three states two western and one midwestern it doesnt because you are just spinning. i lived in the ne all of my life and have been driving considerably longer than 12 years in snow with many types of vehicles. how doe

From : jerry

im not the one who is trying to turn it into an argument jerry. it is people accusing me of doing so with nothing to back it up sort of what you are doing now. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tom lawrence wrote no it only increases traction on the rear wheels at the cost of increased weight which increases braking distance and can become a projectile if you stop suddenly which is not necessary in a 4x4. havent done much winter driving have you considering he only wants to argue it really doesnt matter does it. jerry .

From : tbone

tbone wrote sorry jerry but it is you who is bsing here to cover for your lame spin about me saying 4x4s not needing to stop suddenly when you knew that i was talking about the load not needing to be there but like you said why bother. here is what i said what 4x4s never have to stop suddenly you see where i said you said anything. its a question tom. no my mistake was after not seeing you post for several weeks i actually thought you might have decided to start carrying on a conversation in this group without the crap. i was wrong............. and so are you but you already know that dont you. jerry .

From : jerry

tbone wrote lol sorry miles but most of the braking is done by the front not the rear. adding weight to the rear just increases the mass that the front brakes must attempt to stop. oh i see so cars/trucks really do not need rear brakes right lol sorry tbone while it is true that the front does more of the braking all 4 tires contribute and the rear % is substantial. so heres tbones design for a great vehicle for the snow. a front wheel drive truck with front only brakes. think it will sell .

From : budd cochran

sorry jerry but it is you who is bsing here to cover for your lame spin about me saying 4x4s not needing to stop suddenly when you knew that i was talking about the load not needing to be there but like you said why bother. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tbone wrote is your reading comprehension slipping again or there it is ............ he made it through two whole posts before he started.......... like miles said in his correct post why bother... jerry .

From : budd cochran

the main thing to remember engage your brain before engaging the transmission. common sense is the best anti-skid system. if in doubt dont go there. if you have locking hubs lock them before you start your drive but unlock them when you get back. budd wow! did i stir the pot starting this topic! the main reason i want the weight in the back is to give me some extra traction on slush and ice. nh plows roads like theres no tomorrow. i remember driving on back roads years ago with my fathers old ford f-100 p/u 1963 this was in 72. i remember more than once when the back end spun around putting me into snowbanks. of course i was 18 yrs old and probably drove way too fast. i will p/u about 8 bags of tube sand at homo depot 60lbs per bag @$3.00 i think it will be $24.00 well spent. i dont plan on doing any 4 wheeling off roads and the stock michelins probably wouldnt be any good for it anyways. for all you 4 x4 guys a i right in believing that for a small amount of slush and only 1-3 inches of snow shifting into 4 w/d would be futile thanks howard or some other place it never snows. budd on tue 30 nov 2004 220919 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote on mon 29 nov 2004 141850 -0500 hp howard.page@comcast.net wrote i have heard that also of folks are putting weight in the back of the trucks for winter driving. on my 04 1500 quad cab short bed with hemi how much weight is good to add whats the most cost efficient way. i have line-x in the bed but dont want to crap up the truck as its purpose is primarily towing my camping trailer in the good weather . 427 pounds 3 ounces. lol! if it is a 4x4 you dont need to add anything. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving sorry i didnt realize the guy lived in florida. beekeep .

From : tbone

on the older manual systems i taught my guys to engage the hubs before they were needed . . .then you dont have to get out in the slop to do it. bg which is why axle disconnects have become so popular. budd on wed 01 dec 2004 022714 gmt jerry jlrice1655@earthlink.net wrote budd cochran wrote tom when i trained drivers for the indiana national guard i emphasized that even the 5 ton 6x6 dump trucks we drove did better with a couple tons of stuff in the bed. first lesson for a new 4x4 owner is you can now proceed 200 yards farther into the field before getting stuck. jerry 2nd lesson from my kid the 4x4 freak dont use 4wd until youre stuck or floundering.... if you get into trouble and are already in 4wd youre only option is a winch or tow truck.. *g* .

From : jerry

i have a 97 ram 4x4 with a 5.9l 360 that has developed a cold weather starting problem recently. the engine cranks fine and always tries to fire on the first few revolutions but after about three revolutions it will not even attempt to fire anymore. to get it started i have to crank about 3 to 5 revolutions then stop then wait about 3 seconds try again then repeat the process for about 10 cycles. eventually it will wire up run for about 5 seconds then die. if i try to give it gas it dies even more quickly. after about the 5th successful fire it will then idle ok and if i give it gas really slowly i can rev it up to about 2500 and run it there for about 5 minutes then everything is fine. during that first five minutes if i turn the heater fan on high it will kill the engine i can turn it on low without killing it. after it warms up i can shut it off and it starts right back up immediately. it also runs fine no hesitation or rough idle problems. if i let it sit for more than a couple hours when temp is below 40 i have to go through the whole routine again. the plugs and wires are about 4 months old and has new k&n air filter. any ideas thanks jason .

From : mac davis

tbone wrote no it only increases traction on the rear wheels thats the point...... which serves little purpose if the front axle is also pulling. all it does then is just add weight. at the cost of increased weight so what............ i drive a diesel and it never knows it is there. lol but the laws of physics do and not everyone ownes a big bad diesel. which increases braking distance were talking about a couple hundred pounds not something like a trailer. n/a...... wrong. and can become a projectile thats already been covered. bolt tie strap it down. that sack of groceries in the back seat will do more damage. iow a shit load of work for little to no benefit. if you stop suddenly which is not necessary in a 4x4. what 4x4s never have to stop suddenly like i said miles is right. is your reading comprehension slipping again or is this just selective reading. both vehicles may need to be or could be stopped suddenly which could make the added weight a deadly projectile and this weight is not needed in a 4x4. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : mac davis

mac davis wrote .... if you get into trouble and are already in 4wd youre only option is a winch or tow truck.. *g* yep been there done that.......... jerry .

From : mac davis

on wed 01 dec 2004 002951 gmt roy roy@home.net wrote 427 pounds 3 ounces. beekeep youre getting close. i hang approx 800 lbs on the front end of the truck and another 400 lbs of cast iron suitcase weights in the front of the bed. then i throw in a tool kit with a few spare pins a couple of hoses and a spring. toss in a few tools flashlights and a heavy duty tug-em strap and im ready for snow. denny okay all that weight in the back i assume is compensatory weight for the driver. what do you add for the plow bfg roy i believe the expression is took the words right out of my mouth sorry that you had to use wet words bro.. .

From : tbone

on tue 30 nov 2004 171333 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote tbone wrote if it is a 4x4 you dont need to add anything. a 4x4 truck is light in the back just like a 4x2. adding weight to the back greatly improves traction in either case. hell after the sand in the bed hang a few elevator weights from the front bumper.. lol .

From : mac davis

on wed 01 dec 2004 022714 gmt jerry jlrice1655@earthlink.net wrote budd cochran wrote tom when i trained drivers for the indiana national guard i emphasized that even the 5 ton 6x6 dump trucks we drove did better with a couple tons of stuff in the bed. first lesson for a new 4x4 owner is you can now proceed 200 yards farther into the field before getting stuck. jerry 2nd lesson from my kid the 4x4 freak dont use 4wd until youre stuck or floundering.... if you get into trouble and are already in 4wd youre only option is a winch or tow truck.. *g* .

From : tbone

on tue 30 nov 2004 210743 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote tbone wrote what do you think the 4 wheel drive is for miles the truck is already heavy enough. the problem is that most of the weight is not over the drive wheels. when you engage the 4 wheel drive that problem is instantly solved. what complete bull! with your logic all anyone needs is a front wheel drive truck. weight over the drive wheels right adding weight over the rear axle increases the traction for the rear. its 4 wheel drive not just 2 wheels with the most weight drive. i drive extensively in deep snow. weight in the back helps considerably. why do i even bother! umm... ill go out on a limb here... to get through the snow .

From : hp

tbone wrote no it only increases traction on the rear wheels at the cost of increased weight which increases braking distance and can become a projectile if you stop suddenly which is not necessary in a 4x4. if you have increased traction then your braking distance is lower not higher. lol sorry miles but most of the braking is done by the front not the rear. adding weight to the rear just increases the mass that the front brakes must attempt to stop. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

no it only increases traction on the rear wheels at the cost of increased weight which increases braking distance and can become a projectile if you stop suddenly which is not necessary in a 4x4. havent done much winter driving have you as much if not more than you have. scenario fronts are hanging in a ditch that was unmarked and unseen because it was covered over with a snowdrift. rears are on the road but road is slippery because of snow. no weight in the back means youre towing the truck out of the ditch. weight in the rear means youre backing it out. if it is that hung up i doubt that a few hundred pounds in the rear will make any difference and if you had more than that it probably helped to drive you into the ditch even further anyway and you will still need to be towed. sorry tom but this uncommon occurrence just doesnt cut it. 50/50 weight distribution isnt just for high-performance handling... i never said that it was but adding more weight in slippery conditions just makes it worse. in a two wheel drive pu the primary problem comes from the fact that they are heavy and most of the weight is on the front axle and not on the drive axle. in order to gain enough traction to move this mass you need to shift more weight to the rear axle and that is done by piling crap into the bed even at the cost of further increasing the trucks weight. in a 4x4 all of the trucks weight is on the drive axles already and the only time you might have a problem is if you put yourself into a scenario like the one you described above to disable the front axle and even then the excess weight in the rear may prove to be more of a bother than a benefit. in this case i would use a form of the budd method and just keep a shovel in the bed. if i were to be dumb enough to drive into a ditch i could grab the shovel and dig out the front tires and put the snow into the bed which would kill two birds with one stone and not have to haul around 500 lbs of useless weight around the rest of the time. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : budd cochran

wow! did i stir the pot starting this topic! the main reason i want the weight in the back is to give me some extra traction on slush and ice. nh plows roads like theres no tomorrow. i remember driving on back roads years ago with my fathers old ford f-100 p/u 1963 this was in 72. i remember more than once when the back end spun around putting me into snowbanks. of course i was 18 yrs old and probably drove way too fast. i will p/u about 8 bags of tube sand at homo depot 60lbs per bag @$3.00 i think it will be $24.00 well spent. i dont plan on doing any 4 wheeling off roads and the stock michelins probably wouldnt be any good for it anyways. for all you 4 x4 guys a i right in believing that for a small amount of slush and only 1-3 inches of snow shifting into 4 w/d would be futile thanks howard or some other place it never snows. budd on tue 30 nov 2004 220919 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote on mon 29 nov 2004 141850 -0500 hp howard.page@comcast.net wrote i have heard that also of folks are putting weight in the back of the trucks for winter driving. on my 04 1500 quad cab short bed with hemi how much weight is good to add whats the most cost efficient way. i have line-x in the bed but dont want to crap up the truck as its purpose is primarily towing my camping trailer in the good weather . 427 pounds 3 ounces. lol! if it is a 4x4 you dont need to add anything. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving sorry i didnt realize the guy lived in florida. beekeep .

From : miles

or some other place it never snows. budd on tue 30 nov 2004 220919 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote on mon 29 nov 2004 141850 -0500 hp howard.page@comcast.net wrote i have heard that also of folks are putting weight in the back of the trucks for winter driving. on my 04 1500 quad cab short bed with hemi how much weight is good to add whats the most cost efficient way. i have line-x in the bed but dont want to crap up the truck as its purpose is primarily towing my camping trailer in the good weather . 427 pounds 3 ounces. lol! if it is a 4x4 you dont need to add anything. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving sorry i didnt realize the guy lived in florida. beekeep .

From : miles

how many 4x4s have you owned in winter time how many or how many years i have owned two of them for a total of 12 years in winter time. and yes we can get heavy snow in nj in the winter time. tom when i trained drivers for the indiana national guard i emphasized that even the 5 ton 6x6 dump trucks we drove did better with a couple tons of stuff in the bed. im sure that they did but we are not talking about military vehicles in extreme situations. a 4x4 with nothing in the bed will outperform any 2 wheel drive vehicle of the same type in a given situation and in just about all cases the extra weight in not needed. will added weight in the rear help possibly in some situations but in others like ice it will actually make it worse. a bit of advice if i may . . . drop the belief that having 4x4 means you can go thru anything youll stay out of more ditches and stay upright much longer. i never said that a 4x4 can go through anything but it can go thru far more than a 4x2 with 500 lbs of crap in the bed. i have driven 4x4s thru snow of various levels for 12 years without anything extra in the bed and have yet to get stuck. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

im heading down a hill....start up the other side..step on the gas pedal..it hesitates & jerks a little then smoothes out & is fine. the dealer replaced 2 injectors it helped somebut not a full cure. any ideas .

From : jerry

tbone wrote no it only increases traction on the rear wheels at the cost of increased weight which increases braking distance and can become a projectile if you stop suddenly which is not necessary in a 4x4. if you have increased traction then your braking distance is lower not higher. .

From : beekeep

yeah im used to doing most work myself so its kind of tough getting a trust level when you drop your car off its immobile and yourre sort of stuck there trying to figure out if youre going to have it towed around or not or piss off the shop by second guessing them. also the $400-$650 estimate zips up to a $1350 quote after they pull it and then when i hesitate they tell me $900 for a used one or perhaps they can do it for $700 then a couple days later they suggest a shop that has a cheap transfer case and say they can to do it for $550.. sort of odd to me.. your transfer case and transmission each have their own supply of lubricant. while they are connected mechanically their lube supplies are indeed separate. it sounds as if you dont trust the shop that is working on your vehicle. for your piece of mind it may pay you to get a second opinion from a shop you trust. chryco service manager member sae had a question - on a 93 dakota if my trans shop is telling me that all the fluid leaked out of the back of the transfer case and you need a full transfer case rebuild wouldnt that mean that the fluid also leaked out of the main trans unit i had a knocking sound which i had my trans shop check out because i had it rebuilt back in april. not sure if it was from the trans but it was only when moving and i thought it was coming from the passenger side of the car around the trans area. shop had switched owners since i had the work done and they stumbled upon an issue i knew existed with my 4wd selection within the transfer case but after taking my transfer case out they started into describing me needing a $1350 full transfer case rebuild done lifetime guarantee etc. etc... whats odd is the transfer case is on the drivers side of the car not passenger side...so im not sure if theyre just picking some random issue to hit me up for some $$ or if they are trying to cover the fact that they need to open up the whole trans and possibly replace a few parts if the full unit indeed went dry...just for it to last long enough to keep me happy. not quite sure what to do. have a good used unit i can buy and have put in for $550 total. or i can leave and pay them $250 for pulling and checking out the transfer case. of course i can also give them $1350 to rebuild it all. not quite sure what chance to take. any trans gurus have any thoughts on this .

From : tbone

your transfer case and transmission each have their own supply of lubricant. while they are connected mechanically their lube supplies are indeed separate. it sounds as if you dont trust the shop that is working on your vehicle. for your piece of mind it may pay you to get a second opinion from a shop you trust. chryco service manager member sae had a question - on a 93 dakota if my trans shop is telling me that all the fluid leaked out of the back of the transfer case and you need a full transfer case rebuild wouldnt that mean that the fluid also leaked out of the main trans unit i had a knocking sound which i had my trans shop check out because i had it rebuilt back in april. not sure if it was from the trans but it was only when moving and i thought it was coming from the passenger side of the car around the trans area. shop had switched owners since i had the work done and they stumbled upon an issue i knew existed with my 4wd selection within the transfer case but after taking my transfer case out they started into describing me needing a $1350 full transfer case rebuild done lifetime guarantee etc. etc... whats odd is the transfer case is on the drivers side of the car not passenger side...so im not sure if theyre just picking some random issue to hit me up for some $$ or if they are trying to cover the fact that they need to open up the whole trans and possibly replace a few parts if the full unit indeed went dry...just for it to last long enough to keep me happy. not quite sure what to do. have a good used unit i can buy and have put in for $550 total. or i can leave and pay them $250 for pulling and checking out the transfer case. of course i can also give them $1350 to rebuild it all. not quite sure what chance to take. any trans gurus have any thoughts on this .

From : tom lawrence

it wont worksince so many people are using synthetic oilnowdays the dirt is immune to sticking to it anymore. .

From : tom lawrence

the best switch for mpg in a 3/4 ton is a diesel my 98 2wd got 24.5 doing 60 & 22 @ 70 put a chip in it & beat most v8s too! racing & mpg!! .

From : budd cochran

how many 4x4s have you owned in winter time i gotta learn to read the new posts in the entire thread before replying... .

From : tbone

no it only increases traction on the rear wheels at the cost of increased weight which increases braking distance and can become a projectile if you stop suddenly which is not necessary in a 4x4. havent done much winter driving have you scenario fronts are hanging in a ditch that was unmarked and unseen because it was covered over with a snowdrift. rears are on the road but road is slippery because of snow. no weight in the back means youre towing the truck out of the ditch. weight in the rear means youre backing it out. 50/50 weight distribution isnt just for high-performance handling... .

From : jerry

lol the first lesson i gave was similar . . .but the distance was 400 yards instead. bg youd be amazed at the number of drivers i got back from army ait truck school that didnt know 6x6s had limitations too. but . . .treat em right and theyd go places that would stop a jeep. lash the steering wheel when in compound low first gear-low transfer case and you could get out and walk alongside with the engine idling. the diesel multi-fuel engines were even better. budd budd cochran wrote tom when i trained drivers for the indiana national guard i emphasized that even the 5 ton 6x6 dump trucks we drove did better with a couple tons of stuff in the bed. first lesson for a new 4x4 owner is you can now proceed 200 yards farther into the field before getting stuck. jerry .

From : budd cochran

miles wrote tbone wrote if it is a 4x4 you dont need to add anything. a 4x4 truck is light in the back just like a 4x2. adding weight to the back greatly improves traction in either case. youre right about that......... no it only increases traction on the rear wheels at the cost of increased weight which increases braking distance and can become a projectile if you stop suddenly which is not necessary in a 4x4. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : jerry

budd cochran wrote tom when i trained drivers for the indiana national guard i emphasized that even the 5 ton 6x6 dump trucks we drove did better with a couple tons of stuff in the bed. first lesson for a new 4x4 owner is you can now proceed 200 yards farther into the field before getting stuck. jerry .

From : mike simmons

miles wrote tbone wrote if it is a 4x4 you dont need to add anything. a 4x4 truck is light in the back just like a 4x2. adding weight to the back greatly improves traction in either case. youre right about that......... jerry .

From : tbone

class iv you would i would know this but i have the $335 tow package that came with my 2003 ram 1500. was in the 29g package i believe. what class is this hitch didnt buy it for the tow package - its just cam with it - now i need to know. thanks todd .

From : roy

you would i would know this but i have the $335 tow package that came with my 2003 ram 1500. was in the 29g package i believe. what class is this hitch didnt buy it for the tow package - its just cam with it - now i need to know. thanks todd .

From : denny

tbone wrote if it is a 4x4 you dont need to add anything. a 4x4 truck is light in the back just like a 4x2. adding weight to the back greatly improves traction in either case. .

From : roy

tbone wrote if it is a 4x4 you dont need to add anything. a 4x4 truck is light in the back just like a 4x2. adding weight to the back greatly improves traction in either case. what do you think the 4 wheel drive is for miles the truck is already heavy enough. the problem is that most of the weight is not over the drive wheels. when you engage the 4 wheel drive that problem is instantly solved. adding weight to a 4x4 serves no real purpose but still adds all of the problems and dangers that come along with doing that. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

i have heard that also of folks are putting weight in the back of the trucks for winter driving. on my 04 1500 quad cab short bed with hemi how much weight is good to add whats the most cost efficient way. i have line-x in the bed but dont want to crap up the truck as its purpose is primarily towing my camping trailer in the good weather . if you have a dedicated snow tire you shouldnt need a bunch of weight. 200lbs. of secured weight should do it. roy .

From : tbone

on mon 29 nov 2004 141850 -0500 hp howard.page@comcast.net wrote i have heard that also of folks are putting weight in the back of the trucks for winter driving. on my 04 1500 quad cab short bed with hemi how much weight is good to add whats the most cost efficient way. i have line-x in the bed but dont want to crap up the truck as its purpose is primarily towing my camping trailer in the good weather . 427 pounds 3 ounces. beekeep youre getting close. i hang approx 800 lbs on the front end of the truck and another 400 lbs of cast iron suitcase weights in the front of the bed. then i throw in a tool kit with a few spare pins a couple of hoses and a spring. toss in a few tools flashlights and a heavy duty tug-em strap and im ready for snow. denny .

From : budd cochran

on mon 29 nov 2004 141850 -0500 hp howard.page@comcast.net wrote i have heard that also of folks are putting weight in the back of the trucks for winter driving. on my 04 1500 quad cab short bed with hemi how much weight is good to add whats the most cost efficient way. i have line-x in the bed but dont want to crap up the truck as its purpose is primarily towing my camping trailer in the good weather . 427 pounds 3 ounces. beekeep .

From : van

im assuming you have a diesel. the wait to start light is part of the circuit with the heating grid. when you first start the engine that light will come on as required to put warm air into the cylinders. only worry about it if the engine is fully warmed up and the light is coming on. then i dont think its anything too serious likely the temp sensor in the circuit itself. hth bill im not sure when this started but my wait to start light flashes as i drive down the road. im thinking a loose connection or possibly ground but arent sure where this light is connected under the hood. any assistance is greatly appreciated! thanks -- andy rosen .

From : beekeep

this is a multi-part message in mime format. ------=nextpart000057f01c4d6fa.8dfca790 content-type text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding quoted-printable i have seen some of these answers before but never wrote them down my = bust. so if you can help me i would be grateful. the truck is a 99 quad cab 2500 long bed 4x4 diesel banks stinger = installed with a 5 speed manual and air lift booster springs in the = rear 1 were can i get the kit to dis-engage the front end when the transfer = case is in low. 2 is there an after-market kit to install larger rotors on the front = brakes. 3 how can i check to see if my truck has a high-speed-idle setting or = how do i retro-fit a high speed idle switch. 4 is there a way to increase the size of the cooling system =20 thanks for your help --=20 ken ------=nextpart000057f01c4d6fa.8dfca790 content-type text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 content-transfer-encoding quoted-printable !doctype html public -//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en htmlhead meta http-equiv=3dcontent-type content=3dtext/html; = charset=3diso-8859-1 meta content=3dmshtml 6.00.2800.1476 name=3dgenerator style/style /head body bgcolor=3d#ffffff divfont face=3darial size=3d2i have seen some of these answers = before but never=20 wrote them down my bust.  so if you can help me i would be=20 grateful./font/div divfont face=3darial size=3d2/font /div divfont face=3darial size=3d2the truck is a 99 quad cab 2500 long = bed 4x4=20 diesel banks stinger installed with a 5 speed manual and air = lift booster=20 springs in the rear/font/div divfont face=3darial size=3d2/font /div divfont face=3darial size=3d21  were can i get the kit to = dis-engage the=20 front end when the transfer case is in low./font/div divfont face=3darial size=3d2/font /div divfont face=3darial size=3d22  is there an after-market kit = to install=20 larger rotors on the front brakes./font/div divfont face=3darial size=3d2/font /div divfont face=3darial size=3d23  how can i check to see if my = truck has a=20 high-speed-idle setting or how do i retro-fit a high speed idle=20 switch./font/div divfont face=3darial size=3d2/font /div divfont face=3darial size=3d24  is there a way to increase the = size of the=20 cooling system  /font/div divfont face=3darial size=3d2/font /div divfont face=3darial size=3d2thanks for your help/font/div divfont face=3darial size=3d2br-- = brken/font/div/body/html ------=nextpart000057f01c4d6fa.8dfca790-- .

From : budd cochran

i agree even to the sandbags but as was mentioned a steel wire can be setup to rip them open at least. however any solid weight that is not secured to the bed can become dangerous. the snow i mentioned could that and re-freeze making it dangerous as well. budd i think that missile theory would be true of anything you put in the back for weight concrete blocks snowblower tire weights etc. even my sandbags would do some damage if they hit solid. of course you could load the bed with 500lbs of balloons for traction and public safety. ot i always thought that a 500lbs maverick missile ripping downhill at 600+mph didnt need to explode to kill a tank. shudder!!! im sorry but you scare the heck out of me with those 35 pound missiles in your truck. whats going to happen to them in an accident where will they end up is your framework rated at 150 g impact force . . .about 1/2 the impact in a head-on accident at 30 mph think thru the cabs back window / wall in an accident or flying out in a rollover to strike an innocent bystander. budd i have heard that also of folks are putting weight in the back of the trucks for winter driving. on my 04 1500 quad cab short bed with hemi how much weight is good to add whats the most cost efficient way. i have line-x in the bed but dont want to crap up the truck as its purpose is primarily towing my camping trailer in the good weather . for weight i found a local engineering firm that tested concrete. they had hundreds of test cylinders that were 12 long and 6 in diameter. weight was about 35lbs. i then built a frame out of 2x6s to keep the from sliding around in the back and over the axle. still could use the bed for most anything else including hauling lumber or putting the snowmachine in the back. in my1500 extended cab-long bed i would use about 500 lbs. it really would help but it does drive different! scott .

From : bryan swadener

i think that missile theory would be true of anything you put in the back for weight concrete blocks snowblower tire weights etc. even my sandbags would do some damage if they hit solid. of course you could load the bed with 500lbs of balloons for traction and public safety. ot i always thought that a 500lbs maverick missile ripping downhill at 600+mph didnt need to explode to kill a tank. shudder!!! im sorry but you scare the heck out of me with those 35 pound missiles in your truck. whats going to happen to them in an accident where will they end up is your framework rated at 150 g impact force . . .about 1/2 the impact in a head-on accident at 30 mph think thru the cabs back window / wall in an accident or flying out in a rollover to strike an innocent bystander. budd i have heard that also of folks are putting weight in the back of the trucks for winter driving. on my 04 1500 quad cab short bed with hemi how much weight is good to add whats the most cost efficient way. i have line-x in the bed but dont want to crap up the truck as its purpose is primarily towing my camping trailer in the good weather . for weight i found a local engineering firm that tested concrete. they had hundreds of test cylinders that were 12 long and 6 in diameter. weight was about 35lbs. i then built a frame out of 2x6s to keep the from sliding around in the back and over the axle. still could use the bed for most anything else including hauling lumber or putting the snowmachine in the back. in my1500 extended cab-long bed i would use about 500 lbs. it really would help but it does drive different! scott .

From : tom lawrence

1983 gmc jimmy - mountain beater 1966 mustang coupe - daily driver 1966 ffr cobra - ongoing project . 222 294127 41abff93$0$31445$ec3e2dad@.usenetmonster.com frank hinson wrote ...i need to flush the radiator of my wifes 2wd 2000 durango 318 but im having trouble finding the petcock to drain the old coolant; any pointers would be greatly appreciated. tia fdh my truck is a little differant than yours but not that much. the plastic tanks are a little differant than the old brass and alum ones. the petcock on my truck is located on the drivers side at the bottom of the tank on the side not the rear of the tank. to the rear of the petcock youll probably see a small rubber hose in a u shape. pull the top of the u off of the stud and aim this tube in to a bucket. the petcock doesnt look like a petcock at all. more like a dial. pull it straight out with a pair of pliers and squirt a little penetrating oil in there wd-40 is not a penetrating oil. after a few minutes turn the dial counterclockwise 190*. water should flow out of the hose and in to the bucket. -- ..bob 1997 hd fxdwg - turbocharged! 2001 dodge dakota qc 5.9/4x4/3.92 1983 gmc jimmy - mountain beater 1966 mustang coupe - daily driver 1966 ffr cobra - ongoing project .

From : scott ruby

ninebal310 wrote hi all i have a 2001 dakota with the 4.7 v-8 that i bought new. now that it is out of warranty i want to install dual exhaust. what mufflers would give me the best performance. what problems can i expect in regards to mpg hp heat and etc. tia hank cat back systems havnt been proven to privide additional power or economy. people install them simply because they like the look and/or the sound. so you have to listen to a few mufflers in small blocks to get an idea of what you like. it can be a challange getting the pipes around things like the spare tire and the trailer hitch. but any good custom muffler shop not meineke can do it for you. if the system is well built you shouldnt have any problems with performance efficiency heat etc. a true dual system from the manifolds back would make a little more power. but its against federal smog regs to remove the cats and make it a true dual exhaust sytem. and youd also have to fool the computer into thinking they were there. -- ..bob 1997 hd fxdwg - turbocharged! 2001 dodge dakota qc 5.9/4x4/3.92 1983 gmc jimmy - mountain beater 1966 mustang coupe - daily driver 1966 ffr cobra - ongoing project .

From : jerry

use the supplied notches in the inside of the bed to place two 2x6s going across creating a chamber between the wheel wells. go get bags of play sand cheap and fill this compartment. ten or so bags should be sufficient 40lb. bags. cover it with a piece of plywood and fasten the plywood to the 2x6s. you now have a contained load right over the axle and still have a nice flat surface on top for carrying anything else. .

From : budd cochran

tom thanks for all the expert advise you gave me.i will leave it like that for the winter.if i ever find the problem i will post it on here for everybody to see it. thank you very much. mike tom my 67-88 haynes dodge truck manual doesnt cover his truck and none of the model years that it does cover have cad. all were the good old locking hub / transfer case type systems. budd buddy has the same truck and his does the same thing when its cold.i purchase this truck from a older fella back in 92 or 93 and i dont think he well like i said ive got no first-hand experience with the pre-94 trucks... maybe they did come with a cad - maybe the po added the manual hubs - maybe they came from the factory with both.... its of no consequence because youre stuck with it no matter what any of the cad-type systems whether vacuum-actuated or pressure-actuated in the case of the late 80s-early 90s gm axles... they used an electrical heating element to heat up a gas to move the shift fork. it sometimes took upwards of a minute to activate in really cold temperatures are prone to failure especially as they age. again if it were me id ditch the vacuum-actuated system and replace it with a mechanical cable-actuated device. whitey doesnt specifically list an 89-93 application for their posi-lok but i bet if you call them they could help you out. the kits go for about $150 and install very easily. and yes your 4wd indicator light will be on all the time regardless of the position of the transfer case because the switch for this is on the cad which youve locked in the engaged position. if the light bothers you just disconnect the wiring from the cad there should be a connector you can disconnect. tie the wire up out of the way and coat the connections with di-electric grease then tape them up so that if/when you do install a manual system you can re-use the connectors and restore functionality to your 4wd indicator light. your truck will operate fine the way it is... if you dont need or suspect that you will need 4wd unlock the hubs to gain a bit better fuel economy. with the hubs locked your front differential and front driveshaft will be turning all the time. this isnt necessarily a bad thing as it keeps everything lubricated. wear on the components is minimal because theres really no stress being placed on them as opposed to being driven by the drivetrain. in fact this is exactly how the current rams work - no hubs no axle disconnect. .