Gas vs Diesel

From : ro

Q: i need to pull a mini excavator. it and the trailer will weigh almost 10000 lbs. my 91 f250 diesel that i bought about a year ago has a cracked head - $3000+ to fix. i may trade it in and get another. i understand the cummings is a better diesel. im wondering if a larger gas engine might be a better route to go any opinions thanks ro .

Replies:

From : bob doe

i towed 6500 lbs w/my 98 dodge & got 14.5 mpg on the interstate running 62-65 .

From : bob

ro wrote i need to pull a mini excavator. it and the trailer will weigh almost 10000 lbs. my 91 f250 diesel that i bought about a year ago has a cracked head - $3000+ to fix. i may trade it in and get another. i understand the cummings is a better diesel. im wondering if a larger gas engine might be a better route to go any opinions thanks ro yes cummins is the best small truck diesel available. are you going to tow that 10k trailer a lot if so stick with the diesel. -- ..bob 1997 hd fxdwg - turbocharged! 2001 dodge dakota qc 5.9/4x4/3.92 1983 gmc jimmy - mountain beater 1966 mustang coupe - daily driver 1966 ffr cobra - ongoing project .

From : tom lawrence

subject re done deal! from roy roy@home.net how is it equipped its the slt package. 600 cummins auto 4x4 long bed crew with all the goodies like a/c although not really needed in montana but ya never know where the road may lead us and power package. i was going to get the 4.10 gears but i have my ford already set up for any heavy towing so the 3.73 should give us great power and better mileage. .

From : tbone

lol yea and i would need its torque and hp to move the truck with the added weight of the fuel. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving check out http//www.transferflow.com/ they make a midship replacement tank and a 98 gallon in-bed tank. with 152 collective gallons on tap i think you may have enough range to find a station that has diesel. ;- tbone wrote then in your case it makes sense to get the diesel but where i lived in nj regular was about 10 cents cheaper than diesel until the latest bs gas crunch and only about 1 in 10 stations carried it. here in nc none of the stations near me carry it and i would have to drive about 5 miles to get to one that does. on wed 04 aug 2004 233626 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote yea diesel does cost less in many places but how long do you think that it will take you to recoup the added cost of the diesel with your savings in fuel. time and miles to recoup the cost was not a factor in my decision. i was looking for the performance to pull a large fifth wheel when i retire and the diesel fits my requirements better imnsho. but since you asked i am paying 14 cents a gallon less $1.65 vs $1.79 and getting twice the mileage 17 mpg vs 8 mpg from my diesel as compared to my old gasser. actually it is worse than that because when i towed with the gas engine i had to use premium gas $1.95. .

From : grumman581

jerry wrote ... you just summed it up with another stupid stunt to turn yourself into roasted marshmallow. so its equivalent right grin ive seen a lot of burnt vehicles over the last year and none of them appear to be from carrying 5g cans in their cargo area nor from any sort of truck bed fuel system so i am led to believe that it is not as much of a danger point in the real world as it might be theorhetically... all the fires that ive seen seem to result from a problem with the fuel system near the engine since that is the part of the vehicle that is most burnt... irregardless of what one might see in the movies the concept of two vehicles crashing into each other and bursting into flames immediately doesnt happen that often... still whether youre carrying 10g of fuel in an internal tank or 50g in a bed tank if youre on fire youre still going to get cooked -- the question is whether you will be cooked medium-well or well-done... .

From : mac davis

on sun 8 aug 2004 223828 -0500 grumman-581 grumman581-yyyy-mm@charter.net wrote jerry wrote ... you just summed it up with another stupid stunt to turn yourself into roasted marshmallow. so its equivalent right grin ive seen a lot of burnt vehicles over the last year and none of them appear to be from carrying 5g cans in their cargo area nor from any sort of truck bed fuel system so i am led to believe that it is not as much of a danger point in the real world as it might be theorhetically... all the fires that ive seen seem to result from a problem with the fuel system near the engine since that is the part of the vehicle that is most burnt... irregardless of what one might see in the movies the concept of two vehicles crashing into each other and bursting into flames immediately doesnt happen that often... still whether youre carrying 10g of fuel in an internal tank or 50g in a bed tank if youre on fire youre still going to get cooked -- the question is whether you will be cooked medium-well or well-done... get the cummins and carry 4 jerry sorry jerry cans in the bed.. lot safer than carrying gas.. mac .

From : big al

if you are talking strickly cost numbers and not the trucks pulling ability driving range on a tank of gas/fuel without having to stop and refill the reliability of the compaired engines given the load it will be pulling. sure a 350ci can pull that load but how well will it be able to keep up in traffic will it overheat at the first sign of an incline what trand do they have behind the 350 how much compression braking does the 350 have compaired to the diesel a 350 gas engine will have more compression braking than a diesel without an exhaust brake or other engine brake. most trucks if thats what were talking about have excellent cooling systems diesel or gas. al .

From : trey

big al wrote if you are talking strickly cost numbers and not the trucks pulling ability driving range on a tank of gas/fuel without having to stop and refill the reliability of the compaired engines given the load it will be pulling. sure a 350ci can pull that load but how well will it be able to keep up in traffic will it overheat at the first sign of an incline what trand do they have behind the 350 how much compression braking does the 350 have compaired to the diesel a 350 gas engine will have more compression braking than a diesel without an exhaust brake or other engine brake. most trucks if thats what were talking about have excellent cooling systems diesel or gas. al very true. but hey tack on the price of the exhaust brake into my numbers $7k for the cummins keep the manual trans tack on the exhaust brake and there you go the numbers are done. for cruising on flat ground for miles upon miles compresson braking is really a non-issue. for navigating the hills yeah compression braking is important. get that exhaust brake in there and your set hey some folks love gas some love diesel. for better pulling power with better fuel economy with a lot of miles its hard to beat a diesel. if you plan on keeping the miles low it may very well be cheaper in the long run for you to go with gas. if you plan on breaking 100000 miles the diesel may be a better buy. there is also the resale aspect fo the diesel. diesels tend to hold their value better. personal preference also plays a big roll. my dad for example he hates diesels they are loud they are slow and they stink! they should be out-lawed... it sounds like your driving a tractor so he will forever buy gas. but then again he never has a need to pull anything. as for me i just get tired of getting 12 mpg with the truck empty. not even a 200 mile range out of a gas tank! as for cooling yeah as long as you dont over load the engine and you keep it in good tune the cooling system is usually good. throw a super charger on that gas engine and it will change things but in stock trim yeah there good. .

From : montanajeeper

subject re gas vs diesel from ron wa0kds@yahoo.com how many people buy new to save fuel nobody buys a $40000 truck to save fuel. thats a line of crap we say to justify the expense to ourselves and to the wifey who doesnt want you to do it. - .

From : montanajeeper

im surprised every time i see this issue come up anymore. frankly im surprised you can even still get 3/4 - 1 ton trucks with gasoline engines. the benefits of diesel should make this a no-brainer. if you have any legitimate need for a 3/4 - 1 ton truck then you would be better served by a diesel engine to pull the load. diesel oil harnesses 40% more energy per unit its cheaper provides better mileage and contrary to popular belief releases fewer emmissions than gasoline on a properly running engine. http//dieselforum.com/factsheet/cleandiesel.html on top of all this diesel powered vehicles last forever. the initial expense is offset each time you fill the tank. .

From : ron

the point is how many people buy new to save fuel and end up costing them an arm and a leg in monthly payments which will never balance with the fuel savings when the old one with a little repair would have gotten them by for many many more years. i love it though so please keep buyng them new vehicles so i have a better selection of used ones. i would also have to say the more ignition systems are not that costly to maintain. correct i have not been around any of the newer noiseless diesels. i do know people that have blow up diesels trying to get that last horse out them and that cost them big time. tom lawrence wrote gas does have some advantages like being more quiter you havent heard a cummins 600 or even the ford ps 6.0 before they re-flashed it to turn off the pilot injection that is. the noise issue is no longer an issue. less expensive to maintain diesels have no ignition system to maintain and while they take twice as much oil on average the change intervals are twice as long again on average. and if you factor cost of fuel into the maintenance portion because lets face it an engine without fuel isnt going to work very well diesel gets an advantage there too. and cheaper to start. pay more now or pay a lot more later.... some choice the price of gas will never offset the cost of a new diesel truck. obviously... you cant compare a used 21-year gasser to the cost of a brand-new diesel. what nates talking about is when purchasing a new vehicle theres almost no good reason to go with a gas engine in a hd pickup - and i agree with him. .

From : trey

ron wrote the point is how many people buy new to save fuel and end up costing them an arm and a leg in monthly payments which will never balance with the fuel savings when the old one with a little repair would have gotten them by for many many more years. i love it though so please keep buyng them new vehicles so i have a better selection of used ones. i would also have to say the more ignition systems are not that costly to maintain. correct i have not been around any of the newer noiseless diesels. i do know people that have blow up diesels trying to get that last horse out them and that cost them big time. there are very few things they you can do to an engine to improve reliability. most the time its best to just leave it alone. 600ft-lb of torque is plenty for me! i am not entirly sure why you would need more power out of a pickup truck. that 600 makes short work of any hill at just about any speed with just about any load. .

From : mac davis

on 24 jul 2004 023220 gmt sewmun@aol.comnojunk bob doe wrote i towed 6500 lbs w/my 98 dodge & got 14.5 mpg on the interstate running 62-65 was it a neon or a stratus mac .

From : ron

gas does have some advantages like being more quiter less expensive to maintain and cheaper to start. if pulling is the only concern than be it a diesel. i never buy anything new so my $3500 1983 f250 3/4 ton with a 460cid gas will do anything that i need it to do and for what i paid the price of gas will never offset the cost of a new diesel truck. montanajeeper wrote im surprised every time i see this issue come up anymore. frankly im surprised you can even still get 3/4 - 1 ton trucks with gasoline engines. the benefits of diesel should make this a no-brainer. if you have any legitimate need for a 3/4 - 1 ton truck then you would be better served by a diesel engine to pull the load. diesel oil harnesses 40% more energy per unit its cheaper provides better mileage and contrary to popular belief releases fewer emmissions than gasoline on a properly running engine. http//dieselforum.com/factsheet/cleandiesel.html on top of all this diesel powered vehicles last forever. the initial expense is offset each time you fill the tank. .

From : tom lawrence

gas does have some advantages like being more quiter you havent heard a cummins 600 or even the ford ps 6.0 before they re-flashed it to turn off the pilot injection that is. the noise issue is no longer an issue. less expensive to maintain diesels have no ignition system to maintain and while they take twice as much oil on average the change intervals are twice as long again on average. and if you factor cost of fuel into the maintenance portion because lets face it an engine without fuel isnt going to work very well diesel gets an advantage there too. and cheaper to start. pay more now or pay a lot more later.... some choice the price of gas will never offset the cost of a new diesel truck. obviously... you cant compare a used 21-year gasser to the cost of a brand-new diesel. what nates talking about is when purchasing a new vehicle theres almost no good reason to go with a gas engine in a hd pickup - and i agree with him. .

From : montanajeeper

subject re gas vs diesel from ron wa0kds@yahoo.com like being more quiter thats the only thing i dont like about my cummins. sitting in my ford i know im in a diesel because it sounds like one. the cummins is quiet. to quiet for my tastes actually. less expensive to maintain a i totally disagree there. a diesel doesnt require nearly as much maintenance nor does it break nearly as often as a comparable gasoline engine. .

From : mac davis

on 25 jul 2004 031036 gmt montanajeeper@aol.com montanajeeper wrote subject re gas vs diesel from ron wa0kds@yahoo.com how many people buy new to save fuel nobody buys a $40000 truck to save fuel. thats a line of crap we say to justify the expense to ourselves and to the wifey who doesnt want you to do it. - yep.. sort of like the folks that try to justify buying an rv to save money on motels and food... we just admit that ours is an expensive hobby that we enjoy the hell out of... paying $17k for our tt and $14k for our ram to tow all day at 8 mpg would buy a lot of nice motel rooms mac .

From : trey

on 25 jul 2004 031036 gmt montanajeeper@aol.com montanajeeper wrote subject re gas vs diesel from ron wa0kds@yahoo.com how many people buy new to save fuel nobody buys a $40000 truck to save fuel. thats a line of crap we say to justify the expense to ourselves and to the wifey who doesnt want you to do it. - yep.. sort of like the folks that try to justify buying an rv to save money on motels and food... we just admit that ours is an expensive hobby that we enjoy the hell out of... paying $17k for our tt and $14k for our ram to tow all day at 8 mpg would buy a lot of nice motel rooms mac the problem with the hotel is you miss out on the exciting experience of trying to stand up and pee while the wife is driving. also its nice to be able to just lounge on the couch and watch a movie while navigating the freeway. provided someone else is driving .

From : mac davis

on sun 25 jul 2004 211511 gmt trey treydog90spam@hotmail.com wrote the problem with the hotel is you miss out on the exciting experience of trying to stand up and pee while the wife is driving. also its nice to be able to just lounge on the couch and watch a movie while navigating the freeway. provided someone else is driving lol.. sounds like youve been there trey.. i used to justify riding a $3000 bike 80 prices by saying it got twice the milage of the wifes car... bottom line was that it was sort of a life style and i loved it i just wasnt able to admit it didnt really save money.. though it might at todays gas prices! mac .

From : trey

mac davis wrote on sun 25 jul 2004 211511 gmt trey treydog90spam@hotmail.com wrote the problem with the hotel is you miss out on the exciting experience of trying to stand up and pee while the wife is driving. also its nice to be able to just lounge on the couch and watch a movie while navigating the freeway. provided someone else is driving lol.. sounds like youve been there trey.. i used to justify riding a $3000 bike 80 prices by saying it got twice the milage of the wifes car... bottom line was that it was sort of a life style and i loved it i just wasnt able to admit it didnt really save money.. though it might at todays gas prices! mac i save about $75 a month in gas by riding my motorcycle and parking my truck thats a savings of $900 a year. doesnt quite cover the insurance redistration and maintinance on the bike. but i must say its a total blast to ride!! .

From : ron

until you get killed by some idiot in a truck. i am running out of fingers and toes to count the number of friend that i have know that ahve been killed on a 2 wheel death machine. no amount of money is worth saving by buying a 2 wheelers. trey wrote mac davis wrote on sun 25 jul 2004 211511 gmt trey treydog90spam@hotmail.com wrote the problem with the hotel is you miss out on the exciting experience of trying to stand up and pee while the wife is driving. also its nice to be able to just lounge on the couch and watch a movie while navigating the freeway. provided someone else is driving lol.. sounds like youve been there trey.. i used to justify riding a $3000 bike 80 prices by saying it got twice the milage of the wifes car... bottom line was that it was sort of a life style and i loved it i just wasnt able to admit it didnt really save money.. though it might at todays gas prices! mac i save about $75 a month in gas by riding my motorcycle and parking my truck thats a savings of $900 a year. doesnt quite cover the insurance redistration and maintinance on the bike. but i must say its a total blast to ride!! .

From : trey

ron wrote until you get killed by some idiot in a truck. i am running out of fingers and toes to count the number of friend that i have know that ahve been killed on a 2 wheel death machine. no amount of money is worth saving by buying a 2 wheelers. very true i was coming home from a friends house one night and was cut off five times in ten miles. i have also seen a gaint suv driven by some cellphone yapping irvine soccer mom and she made a quick left from the far right lane right in front of a motorcycle that was going the posted speed limit and was t-boned by the bike killed the rider on impact. so tell me are motorcycles dangerous or are imcompetent drivers in cars that have no idea whats going on around them a friend of mine at work beed riding a motorcycle to work for 35 years never been down in his life. then one day on the freeway going home. here comes mr. dipshit on the cell not paying attention and rear-ends his goldwing i ahve been told that southern california is home to some of the best drivers in the world. if this statement is actually true i fear for the rest of the world! further more notice how many crashes involving big trucks actually have a work truck and how many are pretty pollshed toy trucks seems like the people that buy the truck and have a legitamate use for them seem to stay clear of crashes... and the dopes that just by them because they look cool riding high in a 4x4 tend to hit things. thats the american way though anyone can buy and crash what ever they want! .

From : marsh monster

.. .. =3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d =3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d nospamsal1@qwest.net big=a0al asked .. when a diesel does break how does the cost to repair it compare to a gas engine .. just simple things like water pumps gaskets and so on ever pay $47 for a lifter or $30 for a rocker arm for a gas pickup what about a set of injectors or a fuel pump al =3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d =3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d=3d now those are some good questions. marshmonster .

From : jerry

grumman-581 wrote as far as im concerned if the design is not any more dangerous as carrying a bunch of 5g plastic cans in the back it should be acceptable... you just summed it up with another stupid stunt to turn yourself into roasted marshmallow. jerry .

From : big al

subject re gas vs diesel from ron wa0kds@yahoo.com like being more quiter thats the only thing i dont like about my cummins. sitting in my ford i know im in a diesel because it sounds like one. the cummins is quiet. to quiet for my tastes actually. less expensive to maintain a i totally disagree there. a diesel doesnt require nearly as much maintenance nor does it break nearly as often as a comparable gasoline engine. when a diesel does break how does the cost to repair it compare to a gas engine just simple things like water pumps gaskets and so on ever pay $47 for a lifter or $30 for a rocker arm for a gas pickup what about a set of injectors or a fuel pump al .

From : ron

i just heard on the radio within the last week that though diesels are assumed to cost less to run their true cost to repair and keep running is more than a gas engine. now i wish i could remember what program that was on and what report they were talking about. ron big al wrote subject re gas vs diesel from ron wa0kds@yahoo.com like being more quiter thats the only thing i dont like about my cummins. sitting in my ford i know im in a diesel because it sounds like one. the cummins is quiet. to quiet for my tastes actually. less expensive to maintain a i totally disagree there. a diesel doesnt require nearly as much maintenance nor does it break nearly as often as a comparable gasoline engine. when a diesel does break how does the cost to repair it compare to a gas engine just simple things like water pumps gaskets and so on ever pay $47 for a lifter or $30 for a rocker arm for a gas pickup what about a set of injectors or a fuel pump al .

From : redneck tookover hell

i totally disagree there. a diesel doesnt require nearly as much maintenance nor does it break nearly as often as a comparable gasoline engine. whoever posted this is an idiot. a diesel needs fuel filters changed regularly the air filter changed regularly oil changed regularly just as a gas engine does. there also are no diesel engines comparable to gas engines nor are there any gas engines comparable to diesel engines politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : redneck tookover hell

that though diesels are assumed to cost less to run their true cost to repair and keep running is more than a gas engine. it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that out. you needed a report to know this all you have to do is look at the price of diesel fuel. up here its .15 to 20 cents a gallon higher than regular gasoline politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : greg surratt

on 04 aug 2004 184350 gmt mopar440@aol.comnet.org redneck tookover hell wrote that though diesels are assumed to cost less to run their true cost to repair and keep running is more than a gas engine. it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that out. you needed a report to know this all you have to do is look at the price of diesel fuel. up here its .15 to 20 cents a gallon higher than regular gasoline guess you need to hop on that rocket scientist. diesel is 14 cents per gallon lower than regular gasoline where im at - and if i drive 16 miles west of home i get another 5 cents lower. .

From : ron

yes it does take a report because until something is actually written down and analyzed all you have are peoples opinions which are always one sized. i personally always thought a diesel should be cheaper but i am starting to change my opinion from the facts that i have gathered. no opinion without real data will not get entered into my data base. new guestion is a horse cheaper to operate than a diesel think about it ! ron redneck tookover hell wrote that though diesels are assumed to cost less to run their true cost to repair and keep running is more than a gas engine. it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that out. you needed a report to know this all you have to do is look at the price of diesel fuel. up here its .15 to 20 cents a gallon higher than regular gasoline politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. .

From : trey

ron wrote yes it does take a report because until something is actually written down and analyzed all you have are peoples opinions which are always one sized. i personally always thought a diesel should be cheaper but i am starting to change my opinion from the facts that i have gathered. no opinion without real data will not get entered into my data base. new guestion is a horse cheaper to operate than a diesel think about it ! ron by the looks of how many horses they can stuff into a diesel i would think the diesel would be cheaper then the equivalent number of horses. .

From : ron

i would even expect the price of one horse would cost more. when you figure feed pasture rent vet bills horseshoeing cost and then the cost of getting the horse to someplace that you can actually ride it which usually takes a pickup truck and trailer. trey wrote ron wrote yes it does take a report because until something is actually written down and analyzed all you have are peoples opinions which are always one sized. i personally always thought a diesel should be cheaper but i am starting to change my opinion from the facts that i have gathered. no opinion without real data will not get entered into my data base. new guestion is a horse cheaper to operate than a diesel think about it ! ron by the looks of how many horses they can stuff into a diesel i would think the diesel would be cheaper then the equivalent number of horses. .

From : richard b

redneck tookover hell wrote i totally disagree there. a diesel doesnt require nearly as much maintenance nor does it break nearly as often as a comparable gasoline engine. whoever posted this is an idiot. a diesel needs fuel filters changed regularly the air filter changed regularly oil changed regularly just as a gas engine does. there also are no diesel engines comparable to gas engines nor are there any gas engines comparable to diesel engines politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. the problem i found with my diesel is that when something fuel related goes wrong the dealer is not just the only one that has the equipment to fix it they are the only people that can fix it. many mechanics dont want to know. even many smaller dodge dealers dont have diesel mechanics. the real problem with a diesel is that when you are broken down in the middle of nowhere you have to get it towed a long way. diesels are just not commonplace enough in north america that any old mechanic can fix it. another thing is as my truck ages with every winter the ol cummins just gets more miserable to start in the extreme cold. it always starts and i plug it in but it just doesnt warm up and i have to idle it longer and longer. this is why i have put it up for sale. location southern ontario 99 dodge 2500 diesel 4x4 reg cab. 256000km. make me an offer. .

From : tbone

yea diesel does cost less in many places but how long do you think that it will take you to recoup the added cost of the diesel with your savings in fuel. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving on 04 aug 2004 184350 gmt mopar440@aol.comnet.org redneck tookover hell wrote that though diesels are assumed to cost less to run their true cost to repair and keep running is more than a gas engine. it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that out. you needed a report to know this all you have to do is look at the price of diesel fuel. up here its .15 to 20 cents a gallon higher than regular gasoline guess you need to hop on that rocket scientist. diesel is 14 cents per gallon lower than regular gasoline where im at - and if i drive 16 miles west of home i get another 5 cents lower. .

From : mac davis

on thu 05 aug 2004 034018 gmt trey treydog90spam@hotmail.com wrote if it helps in your calculations the msrp of the cummins option is $5500 not $7000... or almost 2 years difference if i figure your numbers correctly.. if you are talking strickly cost numbers and not the trucks pulling ability driving range on a tank of gas/fuel without having to stop and refill the reliability of the compaired engines given the load it will be pulling. sure a 350ci can pull that load but how well will it be able to keep up in traffic will it overheat at the first sign of an incline what trand do they have behind the 350 how much compression braking does the 350 have compaired to the diesel per tank how big is the tank on those trucks if its a 30 gallon tank and you are getting 10mpg with the gas thats 300 miles a tank then lets say you get 15 out of the diesel. thats 450 miles a tank. when it comes to lost time sitting at a filling station that extra 150 miles can add up. ok lets get that diesel to pay for itself now. assuming 10000 miles a year 10mpg for gas and 15 mpg for diesel. thats 666 gallons of diesel or 1000 gallons of gas. current ave price for gas around here $2.20/gallon diesel $2.10. $1398.60 for the diesel $2200 for the gas. a savings of $801.4 per year. if you are doing 10000 miles per year. more miles more of a savings. so in ten years you saved $8014 minus $7000 for the upgraded option of the diesel and leaves you with an extra $1014 over ten years for maintinance. take that up to 12000 miles a year very common anual mileage in socal and that number climbs to $2600 left over for maintinance. diesel 12000/15mpg= 800 gallons 800 gallons*$2.10 = $1680 per year gas 12000/10=1200 gallons 1200 gallons* $2.20= $2640 per year $960per year* 10 years - $7000 for the diesel = $2600 this is also asuming 10 mpg for the gas and 15 for the diesel. the worst diesel mpg i have heard of in a pickup is 12 and the worst gas mpg was 4. i have also seen six year old diesels with over 400000 miles on them. can a diesel owner give some figures for how much more it costs to maintain a diesel over a gas with the same workload and maybe explain why you went with the diesel over the gas since many dont care about the improved fuel economy over added upfront cost argument. also what kind of miles do you guys put on your trucks in a year there is also the resale/trade-in value the diesel brings when the time comes for a new one. may the flames begin! mac .

From : trey

ron wrote i would even expect the price of one horse would cost more. when you figure feed pasture rent vet bills horseshoeing cost and then the cost of getting the horse to someplace that you can actually ride it which usually takes a pickup truck and trailer. unless you pay rent for a stall at a stables that is connected to the trails. but then there is another cost. i will stick with my truck at least the truck can keep up with traffic on the freeway! .

From : nosey

redneck tookover hell wrote that though diesels are assumed to cost less to run their true cost to repair and keep running is more than a gas engine. it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that out. you needed a report to know this all you have to do is look at the price of diesel fuel. up here its .15 to 20 cents a gallon higher than regular gasoline politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. here in fort worth its about the same. some places you can find it a few cents cheaper. .

From : trey

tbone wrote yea diesel does cost less in many places but how long do you think that it will take you to recoup the added cost of the diesel with your savings in fuel. less than 100000 miles. if you are talking strickly cost numbers and not the trucks pulling ability driving range on a tank of gas/fuel without having to stop and refill the reliability of the compaired engines given the load it will be pulling. sure a 350ci can pull that load but how well will it be able to keep up in traffic will it overheat at the first sign of an incline what trand do they have behind the 350 how much compression braking does the 350 have compaired to the diesel per tank how big is the tank on those trucks if its a 30 gallon tank and you are getting 10mpg with the gas thats 300 miles a tank then lets say you get 15 out of the diesel. thats 450 miles a tank. when it comes to lost time sitting at a filling station that extra 150 miles can add up. ok lets get that diesel to pay for itself now. assuming 10000 miles a year 10mpg for gas and 15 mpg for diesel. thats 666 gallons of diesel or 1000 gallons of gas. current ave price for gas around here $2.20/gallon diesel $2.10. $1398.60 for the diesel $2200 for the gas. a savings of $801.4 per year. if you are doing 10000 miles per year. more miles more of a savings. so in ten years you saved $8014 minus $7000 for the upgraded option of the diesel and leaves you with an extra $1014 over ten years for maintinance. take that up to 12000 miles a year very common anual mileage in socal and that number climbs to $2600 left over for maintinance. diesel 12000/15mpg= 800 gallons 800 gallons*$2.10 = $1680 per year gas 12000/10=1200 gallons 1200 gallons* $2.20= $2640 per year $960per year* 10 years - $7000 for the diesel = $2600 this is also asuming 10 mpg for the gas and 15 for the diesel. the worst diesel mpg i have heard of in a pickup is 12 and the worst gas mpg was 4. i have also seen six year old diesels with over 400000 miles on them. can a diesel owner give some figures for how much more it costs to maintain a diesel over a gas with the same workload and maybe explain why you went with the diesel over the gas since many dont care about the improved fuel economy over added upfront cost argument. also what kind of miles do you guys put on your trucks in a year there is also the resale/trade-in value the diesel brings when the time comes for a new one. may the flames begin! .

From : nosey

richard b wrote redneck tookover hell wrote i totally disagree there. a diesel doesnt require nearly as much maintenance nor does it break nearly as often as a comparable gasoline engine. whoever posted this is an idiot. a diesel needs fuel filters changed regularly the air filter changed regularly oil changed regularly just as a gas engine does. there also are no diesel engines comparable to gas engines nor are there any gas engines comparable to diesel engines politics the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich. the problem i found with my diesel is that when something fuel related goes wrong the dealer is not just the only one that has the equipment to fix it they are the only people that can fix it. many mechanics dont want to know. even many smaller dodge dealers dont have diesel mechanics. the real problem with a diesel is that when you are broken down in the middle of nowhere you have to get it towed a long way. diesels are just not commonplace enough in north america that any old mechanic can fix it. another thing is as my truck ages with every winter the ol cummins just gets more miserable to start in the extreme cold. it always starts and i plug it in but it just doesnt warm up and i have to idle it longer and longer. this is why i have put it up for sale. location southern ontario 99 dodge 2500 diesel 4x4 reg cab. 256000km. make me an offer. there is a tsb to modify your cold startup computer circuit. see http//dodgeram.info/tsb/2001/18-019-01.htm .

From : mac davis

on 04 aug 2004 184350 gmt mopar440@aol.comnet.org redneck tookover hell wrote that though diesels are assumed to cost less to run their true cost to repair and keep running is more than a gas engine. it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that out. you needed a report to know this all you have to do is look at the price of diesel fuel. up here its .15 to 20 cents a gallon higher than regular gasoline thats because of the high tax up there for running a truck on anything other than starbucks red.. mac .

From : tbone

then in your case it makes sense to get the diesel but where i lived in nj regular was about 10 cents cheaper than diesel until the latest bs gas crunch and only about 1 in 10 stations carried it. here in nc none of the stations near me carry it and i would have to drive about 5 miles to get to one that does. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving on wed 04 aug 2004 233626 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote yea diesel does cost less in many places but how long do you think that it will take you to recoup the added cost of the diesel with your savings in fuel. time and miles to recoup the cost was not a factor in my decision. i was looking for the performance to pull a large fifth wheel when i retire and the diesel fits my requirements better imnsho. but since you asked i am paying 14 cents a gallon less $1.65 vs $1.79 and getting twice the mileage 17 mpg vs 8 mpg from my diesel as compared to my old gasser. actually it is worse than that because when i towed with the gas engine i had to use premium gas $1.95. .

From : trey

check out http//www.transferflow.com/ they make a midship replacement tank and a 98 gallon in-bed tank. with 152 collective gallons on tap i think you may have enough range to find a station that has diesel. ;- tbone wrote then in your case it makes sense to get the diesel but where i lived in nj regular was about 10 cents cheaper than diesel until the latest bs gas crunch and only about 1 in 10 stations carried it. here in nc none of the stations near me carry it and i would have to drive about 5 miles to get to one that does. on wed 04 aug 2004 233626 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote yea diesel does cost less in many places but how long do you think that it will take you to recoup the added cost of the diesel with your savings in fuel. time and miles to recoup the cost was not a factor in my decision. i was looking for the performance to pull a large fifth wheel when i retire and the diesel fits my requirements better imnsho. but since you asked i am paying 14 cents a gallon less $1.65 vs $1.79 and getting twice the mileage 17 mpg vs 8 mpg from my diesel as compared to my old gasser. actually it is worse than that because when i towed with the gas engine i had to use premium gas $1.95. .

From : grumman581

trey wrote ... check out http//www.transferflow.com/ they make a midship replacement tank and a 98 gallon in-bed tank. with 152 collective gallons on tap i think you may have enough range to find a station that has diesel. ;- for what is basically a welded box they sure are proud of their tanks... if i knew how to and had the equipment to weld aluminum i would create my own tank for my truck... 1/8 aluminum diamond plate would only cost around $100 or so for the materials... a couple bucks more for a threaded filler neck and a cap... im also tempted to make me a bed cover out of aluminum diamond plate... .

From : trey

grumman-581 wrote trey wrote ... check out http//www.transferflow.com/ they make a midship replacement tank and a 98 gallon in-bed tank. with 152 collective gallons on tap i think you may have enough range to find a station that has diesel. ;- for what is basically a welded box they sure are proud of their tanks... if i knew how to and had the equipment to weld aluminum i would create my own tank for my truck... 1/8 aluminum diamond plate would only cost around $100 or so for the materials... a couple bucks more for a threaded filler neck and a cap... im also tempted to make me a bed cover out of aluminum diamond plate... transferflow also has some electronics so its all automatic. still pricy though. .

From : grumman581

trey wrote ... transferflow also has some electronics so its all automatic. still pricy though. yeah the electronics might be worth an extra $100-150 but it still has a big price for what is basically an aluminum or steel welded box... personally i dont see having it completely automated as that big of a deal for my use... i dont need to drive straight through 75+ gallons of gas without stopping... assuming 15 mpg and an average of 70 mph thats 1125 miles / 16 hours of driving... ill be stopping somewhere along the way to take a piss at least and i might as well transfer some of the fuel from the bed tank to the main tank at that point... hell the main tank is good for over 5 hours of travel thats more than my s.o.s and daughters bladder capacities so im going to *have* to stop anyway... the issue is whether i have to fillup at what might be a higher priced gas station that might be located at that point... when i was from the grand canyon to hoover dam a couple of years ago i noticed that the gas stations around there were really overcharging compared to places further east or west... i had three 5g cans on the roof rack of my jeep xj so i could bypass the stations in the inflated price area around there and then refill quite a ways down the road where the gas was quite a bit cheaper... assuming that you could save on the average of $0.20 per gallon by filling up at cheaper locations it would take around 60k miles before you had recouped the cost of the transferflow tank... so it probably doesnt make much economical sense -- its more a matter of how much value do you place upon the convenience of it... .

From : tom lawrence

i towed 6500 lbs w/my 98 dodge & got 14.5 mpg on the interstate running 62-65 knowing what kind of engine you have would help to make that a meaningful post... .

From : mac davis

on wed 04 aug 2004 214950 gmt greg surratt glsurratt@verizon.net wrote on 04 aug 2004 184350 gmt mopar440@aol.comnet.org redneck tookover hell wrote that though diesels are assumed to cost less to run their true cost to repair and keep running is more than a gas engine. it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that out. you needed a report to know this all you have to do is look at the price of diesel fuel. up here its .15 to 20 cents a gallon higher than regular gasoline guess you need to hop on that rocket scientist. diesel is 14 cents per gallon lower than regular gasoline where im at - and if i drive 16 miles west of home i get another 5 cents lower. right now its about 4 cents cheaper than unleaded in central ca. also youd have to factor in the higher fuel efficiency of the diesel... less money per gallon and more miles per gallon.. i still wouldnt be considering one if i wasnt towing though... that extra $5000 up front wouldnt be worth it to me for just a daily driver.. mac .

From : trey

mac davis wrote on thu 05 aug 2004 034018 gmt trey treydog90spam@hotmail.com wrote if it helps in your calculations the msrp of the cummins option is $5500 not $7000... or almost 2 years difference if i figure your numbers correctly.. then its another $1500 for the auto trans to go behind it i believe. go with the manual and your set. however $1500 off expensive is still expensive for me. i will stick with my 99 dak for another three years. its paid off so its a big motivator to keep it around for a while longer. if you are talking strickly cost numbers and not the trucks pulling ability driving range on a tank of gas/fuel without having to stop and refill the reliability of the compaired engines given the load it will be pulling. sure a 350ci can pull that load but how well will it be able to keep up in traffic will it overheat at the first sign of an incline what trand do they have behind the 350 how much compression braking does the 350 have compaired to the diesel per tank how big is the tank on those trucks if its a 30 gallon tank and you are getting 10mpg with the gas thats 300 miles a tank then lets say you get 15 out of the diesel. thats 450 miles a tank. when it comes to lost time sitting at a filling station that extra 150 miles can add up. ok lets get that diesel to pay for itself now. assuming 10000 miles a year 10mpg for gas and 15 mpg for diesel. thats 666 gallons of diesel or 1000 gallons of gas. current ave price for gas around here $2.20/gallon diesel $2.10. $1398.60 for the diesel $2200 for the gas. a savings of $801.4 per year. if you are doing 10000 miles per year. more miles more of a savings. so in ten years you saved $8014 minus $7000 for the upgraded option of the diesel and leaves you with an extra $1014 over ten years for maintinance. take that up to 12000 miles a year very common anual mileage in socal and that number climbs to $2600 left over for maintinance. diesel 12000/15mpg= 800 gallons 800 gallons*$2.10 = $1680 per year gas 12000/10=1200 gallons 1200 gallons* $2.20= $2640 per year $960per year* 10 years - $7000 for the diesel = $2600 this is also asuming 10 mpg for the gas and 15 for the diesel. the worst diesel mpg i have heard of in a pickup is 12 and the worst gas mpg was 4. i have also seen six year old diesels with over 400000 miles on them. can a diesel owner give some figures for how much more it costs to maintain a diesel over a gas with the same workload and maybe explain why you went with the diesel over the gas since many dont care about the improved fuel economy over added upfront cost argument. also what kind of miles do you guys put on your trucks in a year there is also the resale/trade-in value the diesel brings when the time comes for a new one. may the flames begin! mac .

From : trey

grumman-581 wrote trey wrote ... transferflow also has some electronics so its all automatic. still pricy though. yeah the electronics might be worth an extra $100-150 but it still has a big price for what is basically an aluminum or steel welded box... personally i dont see having it completely automated as that big of a deal for my use... i dont need to drive straight through 75+ gallons of gas without stopping... assuming 15 mpg and an average of 70 mph thats 1125 miles / 16 hours of driving... ill be stopping somewhere along the way to take a piss at least and i might as well transfer some of the fuel from the bed tank to the main tank at that point... hell the main tank is good for over 5 hours of travel thats more than my s.o.s and daughters bladder capacities so im going to *have* to stop anyway... the issue is whether i have to fillup at what might be a higher priced gas station that might be located at that point... when i was from the grand canyon to hoover dam a couple of years ago i noticed that the gas stations around there were really overcharging compared to places further east or west... i had three 5g cans on the roof rack of my jeep xj so i could bypass the stations in the inflated price area around there and then refill quite a ways down the road where the gas was quite a bit cheaper... assuming that you could save on the average of $0.20 per gallon by filling up at cheaper locations it would take around 60k miles before you had recouped the cost of the transferflow tank... so it probably doesnt make much economical sense -- its more a matter of how much value do you place upon the convenience of it... for folks that do a lot of long distance driving it would be nice. just like how big rigs hold around 200 gallons roughly three days worth of fuel for the amount of long diatance driving i do two jerry cans in the bed would be plenty. .

From : jerry

grumman-581 wrote trey wrote ... transferflow also has some electronics so its all automatic. still pricy though. yeah the electronics might be worth an extra $100-150 but it still has a big price for what is basically an aluminum or steel welded box... i think there is a little more to it than that ............. probable dot approval for one thing internal baffles for support and to keep fuel from sloshing around and im sure other things. maybe it is just me but id rather be certain i wont end up being a giant fireball going down the road just to save a few bucks. jerry .

From : grumman581

jerry wrote ... i think there is a little more to it than that ............. probable dot approval for one thing internal baffles for support and to keep fuel from sloshing around and im sure other things. maybe it is just me but id rather be certain i wont end up being a giant fireball going down the road just to save a few bucks. internal baffles are just a few more pieces of metal welded inside of the tanks with some slots or holes cut in them... not a major cost from a materials standpoint... as far as the fireball goes i probably see a burnt car ever week or so along the highway on my way into new orleans every day and these are vehicles with the factory fuel systems... from a practical standpoint it appears that most of the fires seem to start in the engine compartment -- probably a leaking fuel hose or something... the crappy roads probably dont help either... as far as im concerned if the design is not any more dangerous as carrying a bunch of 5g plastic cans in the back it should be acceptable... .

From : greg surratt

on wed 04 aug 2004 233626 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote yea diesel does cost less in many places but how long do you think that it will take you to recoup the added cost of the diesel with your savings in fuel. time and miles to recoup the cost was not a factor in my decision. i was looking for the performance to pull a large fifth wheel when i retire and the diesel fits my requirements better imnsho. but since you asked i am paying 14 cents a gallon less $1.65 vs $1.79 and getting twice the mileage 17 mpg vs 8 mpg from my diesel as compared to my old gasser. actually it is worse than that because when i towed with the gas engine i had to use premium gas $1.95. .

From : roy

i need to pull a mini excavator. it and the trailer will weigh almost 10000 lbs. my 91 f250 diesel that i bought about a year ago has a cracked head - $3000+ to fix. i may trade it in and get another. i understand the cummings is a better diesel. you understand correctly the cummins is a better diesel. i believe ford knows that as well. look under the hood of the larger ford trucks and see what diesel is there. im wondering if a larger gas engine might be a better route to go any opinions a larger gas 7-10 mpg. a cummins 15-20 mpg. thanks ro the above is mho start doing some reading and decide what is best for you. roy .