Gas to Diesel changeover....

From : carolina watercraft works

Q: i remember someone mentioning doing this swap a little while back and want to setup some collaboration to see what all needs to be done to accomplish this. mine is an 01 2500 qc 4x4 with 5 speed manual. on searching the inet ive found that it has been done before but am curious as to what ill need to start lining up. im at 162k miles and still have some life left in my powerplant but have been wishing i had a cummins for some time now. so im looking for some input. -- ------------------------------------------ laszlo almasi ----cool toys formerly carolina watercraft works ----mack daddy trailers ----ice angels .

Replies:

From : mac davis

on wed 16 jan 2008 210523 -0700 budd cochran mr.establishment440@bresnan.net wrote how do you like the ar-15 i remember the m-16a1 as being a sweet weapon as long as you knew its limitations and compensated for them. budd yeah.. like throwing it at them when it jammed... the bad ol days of the first version.. mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : roy

then you would be making an invalid assumption. oh well. the point is that i have done things like that including creating a vehicle that already existed and after everything was said and done it really wasnt worth it. really what have you been involved in .

From : tbone

as has been said many times sell the one you have and buy another one that already has the diesel in it. the amount of work to do this simply isnt worth the trouble and will probably cost you much more in the long run than simply buying another truck. the parts list alone is huge engine bell housing possibly a new trans as well computer front springs possibly some fabrication to the front frame and motor mounts fuel filler neck modifications to or replacement of fuel tank iirc - a fuel return line exhaust system air intake system second battery and all that goes with that under hood wiring harness and this is just what comes to mind without much thought. im sure that there is much more that im not even thinking about. then after all the joy of making those mods and getting them to work correctly you will have to re-register the vehicle as a modified vehicle due to emissions requirements here in nc and im sure they will give you an easy time with that. do what you feel that you must but it really isnt worth it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving i remember someone mentioning doing this swap a little while back and want to setup some collaboration to see what all needs to be done to accomplish this. mine is an 01 2500 qc 4x4 with 5 speed manual. on searching the inet ive found that it has been done before but am curious as to what ill need to start lining up. im at 162k miles and still have some life left in my powerplant but have been wishing i had a cummins for some time now. so im looking for some input. -- ------------------------------------------ laszlo almasi ----cool toys formerly carolina watercraft works ----mack daddy trailers ----ice angels .

From : roy

i remember someone mentioning doing this swap a little while back and want to setup some collaboration to see what all needs to be done to accomplish this. mine is an 01 2500 qc 4x4 with 5 speed manual. on searching the inet ive found that it has been done before but am curious as to what ill need to start lining up. im at 162k miles and still have some life left in my powerplant but have been wishing i had a cummins for some time now. so im looking for some input. laz if you are looking for a project then go for it. projects are fun. this will be a very expensive and time consuming one though. imo youd be better served doing your engine over perhaps with a different heads cam and stuff. roy ------------------------------------------ laszlo almasi ----cool toys formerly carolina watercraft works ----mack daddy trailers ----ice angels .

From : peterd

on mon 10 dec 2007 100222 -0500 tbone noway@nothere.com wrote as has been said many times sell the one you have and buy another one that already has the diesel in it. the amount of work to do this simply isnt worth the trouble and will probably cost you much more in the long run than simply buying another truck. the parts list alone is huge engine bell housing possibly a new trans as well computer front springs possibly some fabrication to the front frame and motor mounts fuel filler neck modifications to or replacement of fuel tank iirc - a fuel return line exhaust system air intake system second battery and all that goes with that under hood wiring harness and this is just what comes to mind without much thought. im sure that there is much more that im not even thinking about. computer cluster are two more... then after all the joy of making those mods and getting them to work correctly you will have to re-register the vehicle as a modified vehicle due to emissions requirements here in nc and im sure they will give you an easy time with that. do what you feel that you must but it really isnt worth it. .

From : carolina watercraft works

nah...thatd take out the pleasure of accomplishing something aspect. itd be something to work at and enjoy. several of the items would be aftermarket anyway so those prices would be a moot point. i think itd be quite enjoyable. so hush....dont try to rain on my parade. -- ------------------------------------------ laszlo almasi ----cool toys formerly carolina watercraft works ----mack daddy trailers ----ice angels as has been said many times sell the one you have and buy another one that already has the diesel in it. the amount of work to do this simply isnt worth the trouble and will probably cost you much more in the long run than simply buying another truck. the parts list alone is huge engine bell housing possibly a new trans as well computer front springs possibly some fabrication to the front frame and motor mounts fuel filler neck modifications to or replacement of fuel tank iirc - a fuel return line exhaust system air intake system second battery and all that goes with that under hood wiring harness and this is just what comes to mind without much thought. im sure that there is much more that im not even thinking about. then after all the joy of making those mods and getting them to work correctly you will have to re-register the vehicle as a modified vehicle due to emissions requirements here in nc and im sure they will give you an easy time with that. do what you feel that you must but it really isnt worth it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving i remember someone mentioning doing this swap a little while back and want to setup some collaboration to see what all needs to be done to accomplish this. mine is an 01 2500 qc 4x4 with 5 speed manual. on searching the inet ive found that it has been done before but am curious as to what ill need to start lining up. im at 162k miles and still have some life left in my powerplant but have been wishing i had a cummins for some time now. so im looking for some input. -- ------------------------------------------ laszlo almasi ----cool toys formerly carolina watercraft works ----mack daddy trailers ----ice angels .

From : carolina watercraft works

ive thought about that as well. just trying to put both scenarios out for me to explore. -- ------------------------------------------ laszlo almasi ----cool toys formerly carolina watercraft works ----mack daddy trailers ----ice angels i remember someone mentioning doing this swap a little while back and want to setup some collaboration to see what all needs to be done to accomplish this. mine is an 01 2500 qc 4x4 with 5 speed manual. on searching the inet ive found that it has been done before but am curious as to what ill need to start lining up. im at 162k miles and still have some life left in my powerplant but have been wishing i had a cummins for some time now. so im looking for some input. laz if you are looking for a project then go for it. projects are fun. this will be a very expensive and time consuming one though. imo youd be better served doing your engine over perhaps with a different heads cam and stuff. roy ------------------------------------------ laszlo almasi ----cool toys formerly carolina watercraft works ----mack daddy trailers ----ice angels .

From : nunya

i remember someone mentioning doing this swap a little while back and want to setup some collaboration to see what all needs to be done to accomplish this. mine is an 01 2500 qc 4x4 with 5 speed manual. on searching the inet ive found that it has been done before but am curious as to what ill need to start lining up. im at 162k miles and still have some life left in my powerplant but have been wishing i had a cummins for some time now. so im looking for some input. -- ------------------------------------------ laszlo almasi ----cool toys formerly carolina watercraft works ----mack daddy trailers ----ice angels i am one for taking on almost any project no matter how goofy but i cant imagine how much work this would be. i did have a friend that shoehorned a cummins into a dakota. it cost him over 12000 dollars just in parts and took him almost a year to complete the project. as to 162k on your current truck. i have a 97 with a 360 and auto tranny that currently has 280k on it and seems to have plenty of life. buy yourself a good used diesel and dont molest the truck you currently own. i am guessing the the resale value on a truck that had that much stuff changed would be way below what a factory diesel would be. michael .

From : fmb

snip and is it really worth the time trouble or expense reminds me of the argument against going fishing ... answer was yes. fmb north mexico .

From : tbone

nah...thatd take out the pleasure of accomplishing something aspect. itd be something to work at and enjoy. several of the items would be aftermarket anyway so those prices would be a moot point. i think itd be quite enjoyable. so hush....dont try to rain on my parade. lol you will soon find that many months into the project and it will easily take much longer that its not always all that much fun. if you want a project then find a somewhat run down ram diesel and restore it. at least then you would be working on the correct platform where the many thousands that you would have spent replacing perfectly good parts to make the conversion can be used for needed repairs restoration and making improvements with the added bonus of not disabling your current truck. at the end if the diesel looks and runs well you can sell your current ram if you wish to put a few bucks back into your pocket and if the project overwelms you you can sell it and still have a running truck. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tom lawrence

i am one for taking on almost any project no matter how goofy but i cant imagine how much work this would be. i did have a friend that shoehorned a cummins into a dakota. it cost him over 12000 dollars just in parts and took him almost a year to complete the project. why does everyone think this is so difficult the truck came with this engine as an option. thats a far cry from a dakota conversion. .

From : tbone

i am one for taking on almost any project no matter how goofy but i cant imagine how much work this would be. i did have a friend that shoehorned a cummins into a dakota. it cost him over 12000 dollars just in parts and took him almost a year to complete the project. why does everyone think this is so difficult the truck came with this engine as an option. thats a far cry from a dakota conversion. yea and many 2wd trucks also come as 4wd but that is not an easy conversion either. you own both trucks tom how many parts will have to be changed to go from a v8 gas to a i6 diesel and is it really worth the time trouble or expense then remember that not everyone has your shop tools or experience working on these trucks. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : roy

i am one for taking on almost any project no matter how goofy but i cant imagine how much work this would be. i did have a friend that shoehorned a cummins into a dakota. it cost him over 12000 dollars just in parts and took him almost a year to complete the project. why does everyone think this is so difficult the truck came with this engine as an option. thats a far cry from a dakota conversion. yea and many 2wd trucks also come as 4wd but that is not an easy conversion either. you own both trucks tom how many parts will have to be changed to go from a v8 gas to a i6 diesel and is it really worth the time trouble or expense then remember that not everyone has your shop tools or experience working on these trucks. just about everything that needs to be changed is a bolt in. it is a project they arent supposed to be down overnight. whether or not it is worth the trouble time expense is up to the person doing it. perhaps laz has a line on a donor. .

From : mac davis

on thu 13 dec 2007 081721 -0500 tbone noway@nothere.com wrote i am one for taking on almost any project no matter how goofy but i cant imagine how much work this would be. i did have a friend that shoehorned a cummins into a dakota. it cost him over 12000 dollars just in parts and took him almost a year to complete the project. why does everyone think this is so difficult the truck came with this engine as an option. thats a far cry from a dakota conversion. yea and many 2wd trucks also come as 4wd but that is not an easy conversion either. you own both trucks tom how many parts will have to be changed to go from a v8 gas to a i6 diesel and is it really worth the time trouble or expense then remember that not everyone has your shop tools or experience working on these trucks. or the parts discount.. *eg* mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : mac davis

on thu 13 dec 2007 133526 gmt fmb fmbb@sbcglobal.net wrote snip and is it really worth the time trouble or expense reminds me of the argument against going fishing ... answer was yes. fmb north mexico like when i was doing home loans and someone would ask are rates going up or down best answer was yes and no but not right away mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : roy

i am one for taking on almost any project no matter how goofy but i cant imagine how much work this would be. i did have a friend that shoehorned a cummins into a dakota. it cost him over 12000 dollars just in parts and took him almost a year to complete the project. why does everyone think this is so difficult the truck came with this engine as an option. thats a far cry from a dakota conversion. yea and many 2wd trucks also come as 4wd but that is not an easy conversion either. you own both trucks tom how many parts will have to be changed to go from a v8 gas to a i6 diesel and is it really worth the time trouble or expense then remember that not everyone has your shop tools or experience working on these trucks. just about everything that needs to be changed is a bolt in. it is a project they arent supposed to be down overnight. sorry should read done overnight r .

From : tbone

if so then why did he ask what parts would be needed he also mentioned to me that most of the parts would be aftermarket so what would be the point of a donor either way he can do whatever he wants but imho there are much better and cost effective ways of doing it. well thank goodness laz has you to look out for him and his best interests - because ya know he really isnt capable of deciding for himself what is or isnt within his capabilities and budget. oh yea because nobody ever didnt think something completely thru gotten in over their head or underestimated the work or cost involved in a major project. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

i am one for taking on almost any project no matter how goofy but i cant imagine how much work this would be. i did have a friend that shoehorned a cummins into a dakota. it cost him over 12000 dollars just in parts and took him almost a year to complete the project. why does everyone think this is so difficult the truck came with this engine as an option. thats a far cry from a dakota conversion. yea and many 2wd trucks also come as 4wd but that is not an easy conversion either. you own both trucks tom how many parts will have to be changed to go from a v8 gas to a i6 diesel and is it really worth the time trouble or expense then remember that not everyone has your shop tools or experience working on these trucks. just about everything that needs to be changed is a bolt in. lol even many bolt on parts are not so easy to change and can be rather expensive especially when many of them are fully functional and are only being replaced due to the conversion. the computer alone is going to probably give him hell. it is a project they arent supposed to be down overnight. yes but this vehicle seems to be one that he uses and needs so turning it into a long term project doesnt make much sense. whether or not it is worth the trouble time expense is up to the person doing it. and people tend to fool themselves or simply have bad ideas. in the case of the dakota conversion these trucks were never made so if you really want one the only choice is to build it yourself or have it built. as for a diesel ram 2500 these trucks are readily available and can be bought for far less than it would cost him to convert his so what exactly is the benefit of reinventing the wheel perhaps laz has a line on a donor. if so then why did he ask what parts would be needed he also mentioned to me that most of the parts would be aftermarket so what would be the point of a donor either way he can do whatever he wants but imho there are much better and cost effective ways of doing it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : roy

i am one for taking on almost any project no matter how goofy but i cant imagine how much work this would be. i did have a friend that shoehorned a cummins into a dakota. it cost him over 12000 dollars just in parts and took him almost a year to complete the project. why does everyone think this is so difficult the truck came with this engine as an option. thats a far cry from a dakota conversion. yea and many 2wd trucks also come as 4wd but that is not an easy conversion either. you own both trucks tom how many parts will have to be changed to go from a v8 gas to a i6 diesel and is it really worth the time trouble or expense then remember that not everyone has your shop tools or experience working on these trucks. just about everything that needs to be changed is a bolt in. lol even many bolt on parts are not so easy to change and can be rather expensive especially when many of them are fully functional and are only being replaced due to the conversion. the computer alone is going to probably give him hell. it is a project they arent supposed to be down overnight. yes but this vehicle seems to be one that he uses and needs so turning it into a long term project doesnt make much sense. whether or not it is worth the trouble time expense is up to the person doing it. and people tend to fool themselves or simply have bad ideas. in the case of the dakota conversion these trucks were never made so if you really want one the only choice is to build it yourself or have it built. as for a diesel ram 2500 these trucks are readily available and can be bought for far less than it would cost him to convert his so what exactly is the benefit of reinventing the wheel perhaps laz has a line on a donor. if so then why did he ask what parts would be needed he also mentioned to me that most of the parts would be aftermarket so what would be the point of a donor either way he can do whatever he wants but imho there are much better and cost effective ways of doing it. imo and only my opinon it is the fun of doing it or perhaps the feeling of accomplishment. have you ever stuffed a engine from one make into the body of another or perhaps built a race car or off road toy if not you may not get the whole idea. a close friend of mine is trying to cram a big block chevy into a 50 studebaker with a i think a mustang front clip. does it make any sense not to many but hes having a ball with it. thats what it is all about. .

From : tom lawrence

if so then why did he ask what parts would be needed he also mentioned to me that most of the parts would be aftermarket so what would be the point of a donor either way he can do whatever he wants but imho there are much better and cost effective ways of doing it. well thank goodness laz has you to look out for him and his best interests - because ya know he really isnt capable of deciding for himself what is or isnt within his capabilities and budget. .

From : tbone

i am one for taking on almost any project no matter how goofy but i cant imagine how much work this would be. i did have a friend that shoehorned a cummins into a dakota. it cost him over 12000 dollars just in parts and took him almost a year to complete the project. why does everyone think this is so difficult the truck came with this engine as an option. thats a far cry from a dakota conversion. yea and many 2wd trucks also come as 4wd but that is not an easy conversion either. you own both trucks tom how many parts will have to be changed to go from a v8 gas to a i6 diesel and is it really worth the time trouble or expense then remember that not everyone has your shop tools or experience working on these trucks. just about everything that needs to be changed is a bolt in. lol even many bolt on parts are not so easy to change and can be rather expensive especially when many of them are fully functional and are only being replaced due to the conversion. the computer alone is going to probably give him hell. it is a project they arent supposed to be down overnight. yes but this vehicle seems to be one that he uses and needs so turning it into a long term project doesnt make much sense. whether or not it is worth the trouble time expense is up to the person doing it. and people tend to fool themselves or simply have bad ideas. in the case of the dakota conversion these trucks were never made so if you really want one the only choice is to build it yourself or have it built. as for a diesel ram 2500 these trucks are readily available and can be bought for far less than it would cost him to convert his so what exactly is the benefit of reinventing the wheel perhaps laz has a line on a donor. if so then why did he ask what parts would be needed he also mentioned to me that most of the parts would be aftermarket so what would be the point of a donor either way he can do whatever he wants but imho there are much better and cost effective ways of doing it. imo and only my opinon it is the fun of doing it or perhaps the feeling of accomplishment. have you ever stuffed a engine from one make into the body of another or perhaps built a race car or off road toy if not you may not get the whole idea. i do understand that and i do get the whole idea but you seem to be missing the point. the point is that the two vehicle conversions that you mentioned above create a new vehicle type that doesnt normally exist while he would really not be accomplishing anything because the vehicle that he wants to create already exists are factory built in great numbers and for far less money than he would need to spend to convert his. his time and money would be much better spent finding a diesel ram 2500 and making it like or better than new. then he would still get that same feeling of accomplishment not lay up or possibly destroy a primary form of transportation and wind up with something that would be difficult to register inspect or even sell later down the road. a close friend of mine is trying to cram a big block chevy into a 50 studebaker with a i think a mustang front clip. does it make any sense not to many but hes having a ball with it. thats what it is all about. but here he is trying to create something that normally doesnt exist. its not like he can go look in the paper and find a half dozen or more of them running and ready to go. when he is done he will have a one of a kind vehicle and i doubt that this studebaker is his daily driver which is exactly my point. its just like converting a 2wd into a 4wd street vehicle. unless the vehicle that you want to convert never existed or is old enough were finding a 4wd version is difficult it simply isnt worth doing it when you can simply go and buy one. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : nosey

there are some things that people do that make no sense on paper and they love every minute of it. its like golf. it would be much cheaper and easier to buy a ball and put the damn thing in your pocket and stay home. but some people cant resist whacking it with expensive sticks and chasing after it on a rented cart while wearing special shoes and goofy pants. they pay big money to do this on someone elses lawn even if they have a back yard at home. why do they do that because they want to. it appears argument is /your/ golf. -- ken .

From : carolina watercraft works

this has been interesting to say the least. a comparable truck to what i have with a cummins will cost me about $22000. if as previously mentioned i find a donor for what will be substantially less then i really think the overall cost will be less than what everyone is thinking. the frame and all else is the same between the two trucks. im thinking that depending on the amount of damage to a donor thinking accident i can get some of the cost back out by selling off the items i dont need. interior...dash seats things like that. it was mentioned that id have a hard time selling the truck once completed. well that is not the intention. i have a tendancy to keep vehicles til they basically fall apart so this one will be in my possession for a very long time. if i did purchase a truck already outfitted with a ctd and then dumped dollars into it to make it as nice and/or better than my current truck...im pretty sure the end total would be much higher than the potential purchase price of $22k. while i do see your point tbone...you really ought to try and stop being so negative about the idea. i used to race jet skis back in the late 80s and early 90s...i had/have over 12k invested into a ski that initially cost me $3800 brand new. could i ever sell it for that much no. do i want to no. i still have it and it is ridiculously fast and still gets attention...and i had a blast getting it to the level i did. -- ------------------------------------------ laszlo almasi ----cool toys formerly carolina watercraft works ----mack daddy trailers ----ice angels on thu 13 dec 2007 081721 -0500 tbone noway@nothere.com wrote i am one for taking on almost any project no matter how goofy but i cant imagine how much work this would be. i did have a friend that shoehorned a cummins into a dakota. it cost him over 12000 dollars just in parts and took him almost a year to complete the project. why does everyone think this is so difficult the truck came with this engine as an option. thats a far cry from a dakota conversion. yea and many 2wd trucks also come as 4wd but that is not an easy conversion either. you own both trucks tom how many parts will have to be changed to go from a v8 gas to a i6 diesel and is it really worth the time trouble or expense then remember that not everyone has your shop tools or experience working on these trucks. or the parts discount.. *eg* mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : roy

this has been interesting to say the least. a comparable truck to what i have with a cummins will cost me about $22000. if as previously mentioned i find a donor for what will be substantially less then i really think the overall cost will be less than what everyone is thinking. the frame and all else is the same between the two trucks. im thinking that depending on the amount of damage to a donor thinking accident i can get some of the cost back out by selling off the items i dont need. interior...dash seats things like that. if you are going the donor route try to avoid wrecks. the impact can do some weird damage to the drive line and thats the parts you want. if your patient you will probably find a cab burn job thats what id be looking for anyway. that would get you your major components the rest you can scrounge around for. it was mentioned that id have a hard time selling the truck once completed. well that is not the intention. i have a tendancy to keep vehicles til they basically fall apart so this one will be in my possession for a very long time. if i did purchase a truck already outfitted with a ctd and then dumped dollars into it to make it as nice and/or better than my current truck...im pretty sure the end total would be much higher than the potential purchase price of $22k. while i do see your point tbone...you really ought to try and stop being so negative about the idea. i used to race jet skis back in the late 80s and early 90s...i had/have over 12k invested into a ski that initially cost me $3800 brand new. could i ever sell it for that much no. do i want to no. i still have it and it is ridiculously fast and still gets attention...and i had a blast getting it to the level i did. there ya go!! i dont think t has ever done things like that. r ------------------------------------------ laszlo almasi ----cool toys formerly carolina watercraft works ----mack daddy trailers ----ice angels on thu 13 dec 2007 081721 -0500 tbone noway@nothere.com wrote i am one for taking on almost any project no matter how goofy but i cant imagine how much work this would be. i did have a friend that shoehorned a cummins into a dakota. it cost him over 12000 dollars just in parts and took him almost a year to complete the project. why does everyone think this is so difficult the truck came with this engine as an option. thats a far cry from a dakota conversion. yea and many 2wd trucks also come as 4wd but that is not an easy conversion either. you own both trucks tom how many parts will have to be changed to go from a v8 gas to a i6 diesel and is it really worth the time trouble or expense then remember that not everyone has your shop tools or experience working on these trucks. or the parts discount.. *eg* mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : tbone

this has been interesting to say the least. a comparable truck to what i have with a cummins will cost me about $22000. if as previously mentioned i find a donor for what will be substantially less then i really think the overall cost will be less than what everyone is thinking. the frame and all else is the same between the two trucks. im thinking that depending on the amount of damage to a donor thinking accident i can get some of the cost back out by selling off the items i dont need. interior...dash seats things like that. if you are going the donor route try to avoid wrecks. the impact can do some weird damage to the drive line and thats the parts you want. if your patient you will probably find a cab burn job thats what id be looking for anyway. that would get you your major components the rest you can scrounge around for. it was mentioned that id have a hard time selling the truck once completed. well that is not the intention. i have a tendancy to keep vehicles til they basically fall apart so this one will be in my possession for a very long time. if i did purchase a truck already outfitted with a ctd and then dumped dollars into it to make it as nice and/or better than my current truck...im pretty sure the end total would be much higher than the potential purchase price of $22k. while i do see your point tbone...you really ought to try and stop being so negative about the idea. i used to race jet skis back in the late 80s and early 90s...i had/have over 12k invested into a ski that initially cost me $3800 brand new. could i ever sell it for that much no. do i want to no. i still have it and it is ridiculously fast and still gets attention...and i had a blast getting it to the level i did. there ya go!! i dont think t has ever done things like that. then you would be making an invalid assumption. the point is that i have done things like that including creating a vehicle that already existed and after everything was said and done it really wasnt worth it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : greg o

while i do see your point tbone...you really ought to try and stop being so negative about the idea. i just gotta jump in on this! i dont think it is being negative practical perhaps. kelly blue books shows a retail for your truck at about $10600. a ctd the same year same options same miles shows a retail of $17400. if you think you can do the swap and have a good dependable re-sellable epa approved truck for less that the $7000 difference including the 6-12 months of spare time it will take then go for it! personally i would sell my truck and buy a ctd ready to go. i have rebuilt totaled cars and pickups done all the work including paint myself and i am not sure it was worth it when you include the time. your proposed project is pretty large in comparison by the time you figure in all the tiny details that you probably are forgetting. the only way i would even attempt this swap is to buy a totaled donor vehicle with all the right parts. the time it would take to hunt down every nut bolt and piece of wire needed to do this swap would take more time than the swap itself without a donor! i think you got some pretty good advice here from these guys but do what you want we may be all wrong. it maybe much easier than we think but if you do it keep track of every hour spent hunting for parts and doing the swap plus all the $$ you spend and let us know the out come! greg .

From : tbone

this has been interesting to say the least. a comparable truck to what i have with a cummins will cost me about $22000. i really doubt that. even a quick look on ebay shows 01 diesel rams in very good condition from dealers for far less than that. the idea is not to find one in the same or better condition as yours but to find one in good running condition but otherwise somewhat run down. but even if what you say is true if the diesel like yours would cost you $22000 then your gas power one should be worth at least $12000 so if you were to sell yours for that the net cost to you would be $10000. now if you think that you could build yours into a diesel for less than $10000 in parts alone including the donor you are dreaming. if as previously mentioned i find a donor for what will be substantially less then i really think the overall cost will be less than what everyone is thinking. the frame and all else is the same between the two trucks. and that is the point all else is not the same. basically just about everything but the frame body and the interior is different and even with the interior the instrument cluster and under dash wiring harness are different. iirc even the motor mounts are different so you had better know how to weld or know someone that does. making this conversion is not going to be some weekend project and once you really get started this vehicle will be unusable until the project is for the most part completed. im thinking that depending on the amount of damage to a donor thinking accident i can get some of the cost back out by selling off the items i dont need. interior...dash seats things like that. you could get much more of the costs back by selling your current truck if you went the route of fixing up another one. the problem with selling parts from a wrecked vehicle is finding a buyers for the parts. then comes the fun of who is going to remove the parts and where you are going to store the wreck or the parts from it. if you have a large property and a lot of free time then its not that big of a deal but if you dont .... it was mentioned that id have a hard time selling the truck once completed. well that is not the intention. i have a tendancy to keep vehicles til they basically fall apart so this one will be in my possession for a very long time. besides selling it you will have to deal with re-titling and re-registering it to deal with inspections which could be a real pita in this state. if i did purchase a truck already outfitted with a ctd and then dumped dollars into it to make it as nice and/or better than my current truck...im pretty sure the end total would be much higher than the potential purchase price of $22k. i doubt that but even so you could then sell your current truck to make back a good chunk of that money. while i do see your point tbone...you really ought to try and stop being so negative about the idea. im not being negative just realistic. while it may sound like a fun or easy project it really isnt and in the end you will not have anything original to show for it. 01 cummins ram extended and qcs typically sell in good condition for around $13000 to $17000. imho for that price it is simply easier and far more cost and time effective to just buy one and fix it up. now if you simply have to build your own i wish you the best of luck but make sure that you have another vehicle to drive for a while and do the research ahead of time as to what you are going to need to do to re-title it. i used to race jet skis back in the late 80s and early 90s...i had/have over 12k invested into a ski that initially cost me $3800 brand new. could i ever sell it for that much no. do i want to no. i still have it and it is ridiculously fast and still gets attention...and i had a blast getting it to the level i did. the point here is that you took something and made it into something that didnt exist in the mass market and you probably could get close to that if soemone desired a jet ski as fast as yours because the only way at the time you could get one like that was to build it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : mac davis

on mon 17 dec 2007 174824 -0600 greg o goo1959spam@hotmail.com wrote while i do see your point tbone...you really ought to try and stop being so negative about the idea. i just gotta jump in on this! i dont think it is being negative practical perhaps. good point greg.. and probably highlighted the reason that this turned into a pissing match.. besides the fact that they all do the op wanted a project/challenge... they usually arent practical just hopefully fun or emotionally rewarding.... ymwv mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : roy

on mon 17 dec 2007 174824 -0600 greg o goo1959spam@hotmail.com wrote while i do see your point tbone...you really ought to try and stop being so negative about the idea. i just gotta jump in on this! i dont think it is being negative practical perhaps. good point greg.. and probably highlighted the reason that this turned into a pissing match.. besides the fact that they all do the op wanted a project/challenge... they usually arent practical just hopefully fun or emotionally rewarding.... ymwv heres a link to a project a friend sent me. http//bp0.blogger.com/foxyvapsnvk/rnriqr6y1i/aaaaaaaamy4/h7ffoemspg4/s1600-h/cspcivette3.jpg like to see this one when its done. please remove splinters before emailing .

From : roy

on mon 17 dec 2007 174824 -0600 greg o goo1959spam@hotmail.com wrote while i do see your point tbone...you really ought to try and stop being so negative about the idea. i just gotta jump in on this! i dont think it is being negative practical perhaps. good point greg.. and probably highlighted the reason that this turned into a pissing match.. besides the fact that they all do the op wanted a project/challenge... they usually arent practical just hopefully fun or emotionally rewarding.... ymwv heres a link to a project a friend sent me. http//bp0.blogger.com/foxyvapsnvk/rnriqr6y1i/aaaaaaaamy4/h7ffoemspg4/s1600-h/cspcivette3.jpg like to see this one when its done. please remove splinters before emailing a little help help with the link please i cant get the original to open. .

From : roy

on mon 17 dec 2007 174824 -0600 greg o goo1959spam@hotmail.com wrote while i do see your point tbone...you really ought to try and stop being so negative about the idea. i just gotta jump in on this! i dont think it is being negative practical perhaps. good point greg.. and probably highlighted the reason that this turned into a pissing match.. besides the fact that they all do the op wanted a project/challenge... they usually arent practical just hopefully fun or emotionally rewarding.... ymwv heres a link to a project a friend sent me. http//bp0.blogger.com/foxyvapsnvk/rnriqr6y1i/aaaaaaaamy4/h7ffoemspg4/s1600-h/cspcivette3.jpg like to see this one when its done. please remove splinters before emailing a little help help with the link please i cant get the original to open. i think i have it now. http//carscoop.blogspot.com/2007/06/civette-honda-civic-with-corvette-ls1.html .

From : tbone

that is just scary. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving on mon 17 dec 2007 174824 -0600 greg o goo1959spam@hotmail.com wrote while i do see your point tbone...you really ought to try and stop being so negative about the idea. i just gotta jump in on this! i dont think it is being negative practical perhaps. good point greg.. and probably highlighted the reason that this turned into a pissing match.. besides the fact that they all do the op wanted a project/challenge... they usually arent practical just hopefully fun or emotionally rewarding.... ymwv heres a link to a project a friend sent me. http//bp0.blogger.com/foxyvapsnvk/rnriqr6y1i/aaaaaaaamy4/h7ffoemspg4/s1600-h/cspcivette3.jpg like to see this one when its done. please remove splinters before emailing a little help help with the link please i cant get the original to open. i think i have it now. http//carscoop.blogspot.com/2007/06/civette-honda-civic-with-corvette-ls1.html .

From : tbone

on mon 17 dec 2007 174824 -0600 greg o goo1959spam@hotmail.com wrote while i do see your point tbone...you really ought to try and stop being so negative about the idea. i just gotta jump in on this! i dont think it is being negative practical perhaps. good point greg.. and probably highlighted the reason that this turned into a pissing match.. besides the fact that they all do if you call this a pissing match then you are really getting old santa. the op wanted a project/challenge... they usually arent practical just hopefully fun or emotionally rewarding.... ymwv while i fully understand that doing so to a primary ride is not the brightest idea. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

then you would be making an invalid assumption. oh well. the point is that i have done things like that including creating a vehicle that already existed and after everything was said and done it really wasnt worth it. really what have you been involved in back around 81 i converted a fairly stripped 6cyl automatic challenger into a v8 stick shift with ac and a vinyl top. it turned out to be far more work and time then i initially thought and when completed looked and ran well but i could have just bought one like that for about what it cost me in parts and sold the one i had and made up a good portion of that money without all of the headaches making the modifications needed for the stick and ac. today it might be worth it since they are somewhat rare but back then they were fairly common. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : greg o

http//carscoop.blogspot.com/2007/06/civette-honda-civic-with-corvette-ls1.html well aint that just silly! it would be fun to drive but i gotta ask whats the point seems like allot of work to build something that will have little value down the road. i can see the fun in building and latter driving but time and money spent on something a bit more normal makes more sense to me. greg .

From : tom lawrence

http//carscoop.blogspot.com/2007/06/civette-honda-civic-with-corvette-ls1.html when he revs the engine does the whole car flip over .

From : roy

http//carscoop.blogspot.com/2007/06/civette-honda-civic-with-corvette-ls1.html well aint that just silly! silly to you but fun to others. i suppose that 435+hp in a 3000 pound car is silly as well. it would be fun to drive but i gotta ask whats the point seems like allot of work to build something that will have little value down the road. i can see the fun in building and latter driving but time and money spent on something a bit more normal makes more sense to me. i guess it is all how you define normal. greg .

From : mac davis

on tue 18 dec 2007 200851 -0500 roy roy@home.net wrote i guess it is all how you define normal. my definition has always been something i never want to be mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : greg o

http//carscoop.blogspot.com/2007/06/civette-honda-civic-with-corvette-ls1.html well aint that just silly! silly to you but fun to others. i suppose that 435+hp in a 3000 pound car is silly as well. it would be fun to drive but i gotta ask whats the point seems like allot of work to build something that will have little value down the road. i can see the fun in building and latter driving but time and money spent on something a bit more normal makes more sense to me. i guess it is all how you define normal. hopped up late model firebird or corvette would make more sense to me. but after looking over the web site a bit i see he is trying to do the swap for no $$ outlay. more power to him if he makes it. not as bad as dumping a bunch of cash in a swap something like that. greg .

From : mac davis

on tue 18 dec 2007 164447 -0500 tbone noway@nothere.com wrote if you call this a pissing match then you are really getting old santa. not getting old t... been there and didnt like it.. the op wanted a project/challenge... they usually arent practical just hopefully fun or emotionally rewarding.... ymwv while i fully understand that doing so to a primary ride is not the brightest idea. i think his daily ride is a jet ski.. lol mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : nunya

snip while i fully understand that doing so to a primary ride is not the brightest idea. i think his daily ride is a jet ski.. lol mac if this project was being done to a spare vehicle that was not needed for work or regualar transportation it might make more sense. if the op had plenty of time and cash to blow also then i would say go for it. if he is trying to convert his primary transportation and not spend a year of his life riding a bicycle to work then the idea is ludicrous. i restore antique tractors and motorcycles all of the time. i can promise most self done projects cost more than buying a completed one. if the op is into boats he should understand this. what someone puts into a boat or any power toy and what they can sell it for is almost always a money losing proposition. i am in the middle of restoring a john deere model m. what i have spent on parts and machine work has already exceeded what i could buy an already restored tractor by a significant amount. but this one was owned by my dad and the money is not an issue when compared to sentimental value. i am also working on an allis chalmers d-15. i am going to have more money in the fuel system injector pump injectors etc than i can buy a running tractor for. i restored a 78 harley flh last year. i had 11000 dollars in just parts. a running 78 on ebay is less than 10k. i am presently restoring an 88 softail and have lucked out on parts. it looks like ill only have around 7k in parts for this project. but that dont count my time. i have more money in my 72 dart than i can sell it for and i havent even begun to replace the power train. no telling what it is going to cost to build one of the hemis i have in the shop and then fitting it in along with a bigger tranny and rear end. ill probably end up with over 20k in a car that will be worth half that. any project is possible. heck a man with talent could build a space shuttle if he had the budget. but you have to weigh the cost/benefit/time ratio. to spend a lot of cash and a lot of time to build something that is available on every used truck lot in the country is odd to say the least. i cant imagine how much time it would take just to swap out the wiring. add the fuel management system to that and a one man band has a couple of weeks into the project and still has an engine laying in the floor. just imagine the time scavenging all of the parts from the donor vehicle. this aint just a build. it is dissassembly of two vehicles before you even start to reassemble the original truck. michael .

From : dimbo spams

of all the responses that were to the op this one is the most rational and well stated...................... snip while i fully understand that doing so to a primary ride is not the brightest idea. i think his daily ride is a jet ski.. lol mac if this project was being done to a spare vehicle that was not needed for work or regualar transportation it might make more sense. if the op had plenty of time and cash to blow also then i would say go for it. if he is trying to convert his primary transportation and not spend a year of his life riding a bicycle to work then the idea is ludicrous. i restore antique tractors and motorcycles all of the time. i can promise most self done projects cost more than buying a completed one. if the op is into boats he should understand this. what someone puts into a boat or any power toy and what they can sell it for is almost always a money losing proposition. i am in the middle of restoring a john deere model m. what i have spent on parts and machine work has already exceeded what i could buy an already restored tractor by a significant amount. but this one was owned by my dad and the money is not an issue when compared to sentimental value. i am also working on an allis chalmers d-15. i am going to have more money in the fuel system injector pump injectors etc than i can buy a running tractor for. i restored a 78 harley flh last year. i had 11000 dollars in just parts. a running 78 on ebay is less than 10k. i am presently restoring an 88 softail and have lucked out on parts. it looks like ill only have around 7k in parts for this project. but that dont count my time. i have more money in my 72 dart than i can sell it for and i havent even begun to replace the power train. no telling what it is going to cost to build one of the hemis i have in the shop and then fitting it in along with a bigger tranny and rear end. ill probably end up with over 20k in a car that will be worth half that. any project is possible. heck a man with talent could build a space shuttle if he had the budget. but you have to weigh the cost/benefit/time ratio. to spend a lot of cash and a lot of time to build something that is available on every used truck lot in the country is odd to say the least. i cant imagine how much time it would take just to swap out the wiring. add the fuel management system to that and a one man band has a couple of weeks into the project and still has an engine laying in the floor. just imagine the time scavenging all of the parts from the donor vehicle. this aint just a build. it is dissassembly of two vehicles before you even start to reassemble the original truck. michael .

From : nunya

of all the responses that were to the op this one is the most rational and well stated...................... snip what the op is also missing is the fact that he has to change out the entire front suspension the diesel engine weighs much more than the gas burner thus requires heavier springs and exhaust system. add dual batteries entire fuel system including tank and lines driveshaft add dual battery capabilities add an intercooler that requires changing airconditioner condensor oil cooler etc. blah blah blah. basically every component of the truck except for the interior of the cab and windshield wipers has to be changed. oh yeah final drive gears and so many other nit pickin parts that this is making my head hurt. michael .

From : bfran

jack up the vin plate and drive a new truck under it of all the responses that were to the op this one is the most rational and well stated...................... snip what the op is also missing is the fact that he has to change out the entire front suspension the diesel engine weighs much more than the gas burner thus requires heavier springs and exhaust system. add dual batteries entire fuel system including tank and lines driveshaft add dual battery capabilities add an intercooler that requires changing airconditioner condensor oil cooler etc. blah blah blah. basically every component of the truck except for the interior of the cab and windshield wipers has to be changed. oh yeah final drive gears and so many other nit pickin parts that this is making my head hurt. michael .

From : tom lawrence

front suspension the diesel engine weighs much more than the gas burner thus requires heavier springs by entire front suspension if you mean the two coil springs then yes. since that also involves removing and replacing the shocks that will take all of 30 minutes. and exhaust system. yep. this is an aftermarket turbo-back setup that runs around $400 and will take about 20 minutes to put in since the whole old exhaust system simply gets sawz-alld out add dual batteries battery battery tray extra ground cable and heavy +12v cable to connect to the other battery. not exactly rocket science. entire fuel system including tank and lines no the tank is the same big plastic box. new fuel lines sure... if it were me id do a frame-mounted pusher pump so therefore a short return line and a single flexible fuel line up to the engines injection pump. at least one of those pusher pumps comes with a new dip tube and returns via the filler neck vent so the existing fuel pump module can simply be gutted pump removed its ports plugged and simply re-used. driveshaft why add dual battery capabilities yep - covered that already basically every component of the truck except for the interior of the cab and windshield wipers has to a little over-dramatic dont you think theres nothing wrong with the drivetrain as its the same hd components that come with any hd pickup. oh yeah final drive gears why are the 3.54 or 4.10 gears offered that year with the gasoline engines any different than the 3.54 or 4.10 gears offered with the diesel option of that same year .

From : carolina watercraft works

lol...really tom...whats up with that you actually beat me to the punch on responding. lets narrow things down a little bit.....assume this truck will not be my primary mode of transportaion when/if the project does take place. lets also assume funds will not be an issue. not saying im willing to spend a fortune on it...just dont think its going to cost the fortune a few of you think it is going to. -- ------------------------------------------ laszlo almasi ----cool toys formerly carolina watercraft works ----mack daddy trailers ----ice angels front suspension the diesel engine weighs much more than the gas burner thus requires heavier springs by entire front suspension if you mean the two coil springs then yes. since that also involves removing and replacing the shocks that will take all of 30 minutes. and exhaust system. yep. this is an aftermarket turbo-back setup that runs around $400 and will take about 20 minutes to put in since the whole old exhaust system simply gets sawz-alld out add dual batteries battery battery tray extra groun

From : roy

front suspension the diesel engine weighs much more than the gas burner thus requires heavier springs by entire front suspension if you mean the two coil springs then yes. since that also involves removing and replacing the shocks that will take all of 30 minutes. and exhaust system. yep. this is an aftermarket turbo-back setup that runs around $400 and will take about 20 minutes to put in since the whole old exhaust system simply gets sawz-alld out add dual batteries battery battery tray extra ground cable and heavy +12v cable to connect to the other battery. not exactly rocket science. entire fuel system including tank and lines no the tank is the same big plastic box. new fuel lines sure... if it were me id do a frame-mounted pusher pump so therefore a short return line and a single flexible fuel line up to the engines injection pump. at least one of those pusher pumps comes with a new dip tube and returns via the filler neck vent so the existing fuel pump module can simply be gutted pump removed its ports plugged and simply re-used. driveshaft why add dual battery capabilities yep - covered that already basically every component of the truck except for the interior of the cab and windshield wipers has to a little over-dramatic dont you think theres nothing wrong with the drivetrain as its the same hd components that come with any hd pickup. oh yeah final drive gears why are the 3.54 or 4.10 gears offered that year with the gasoline engines any different than the 3.54 or 4.10 gears offered with the diesel option of that same year of all the responses that were to the op this one is the most rational and well stated.......... g damn tom how dare you come in here and make sense. vbg .

From : tbone

lol yea except for the bullshit time estimates. the problem is that not everyone else has a heated and air conditioned 5 bay shop with multiple lifts and tools and equipment that would probably rival some small dealerships all to themselves. it gets much easier when you have the space and equipment to perform this level of work. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tbone im just curious. what do you do for fun other than to argue in groups you have to do something for fun sometimes.. well i guess that im curious as well. why is it that even tough there are multiple people on boths sides of this discussion i seem to you to be the only one arguing how is roys tom ls eds or anyone elses in this discussion any different -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : denny

lol yea except for the bullshit time estimates. the problem is that not everyone else has a heated and air conditioned 5 bay shop with multiple lifts and tools and equipment that would probably rival some small dealerships all to themselves. it gets much easier when you have the space and equipment to perform this level of work. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tbone im just curious. what do you do for fun other than to argue in groups you have to do something for fun sometimes.. well i guess that im curious as well. why is it that even tough there are multiple people on boths sides of this discussion i seem to you to be the only one arguing how is roys tom ls eds or anyone elses in this discussion any different i guess just cause you seem to have the most fun in doing it.. bg ive been staying out of it mostly cause i see both sides of if. yes it is a big project. yes is would be more cost effective to just go buy one. but ive taken on some really stupid projects just because i was bored and wanted something to do. try building a stock altered class garden tractor puller from scratch sometime when you get bored. let me know if you want some spare parts.. bg denny -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : carolina watercraft works

nc does not test emissions on trucks with a gvwr of 8800 or more so that point isnt an issue. -- ------------------------------------------ laszlo almasi ----cool toys formerly carolina watercraft works ----mack daddy trailers ----ice angels front suspension the diesel engine weighs much more than the gas burner thus requires heavier springs by entire front suspension if you mean the two coil springs then yes. since that also involves removing and replacing the shocks that will take all of 30 minutes. change out the springs and shocks in 30 minutes i would pay money to see it done that quickly. post the video on youtube when you pull that off. it takes me that much time to gather the tools and parts. and exhaust system. yep. this is an aftermarket turbo-back setup that runs around $400 and will take about 20 minutes to put in since the whole old exhaust system simply gets sawz-alld out once again 20 minutes to remove t

From : nunya

connect to the other battery. not exactly rocket science. entire fuel system including tank and lines no the tank is the same big plastic box. new fuel lines sure... if it were me id do a frame-mounted pusher pump so therefore a short return line and a single flexible fuel line up to the engines injection pump. at least one of those pusher pumps comes with a new dip tube and returns via the filler neck vent so the existing fuel pump module can simply be gutted pump removed its ports plugged and simply re-used. driveshaft why add dual battery capabilities yep - covered that already basically every component of the truck except for the interior of the cab and windshield wipers has to a little over-dramatic dont you think theres nothing wrong with the drivetrain as its the same hd components that come with any hd pickup. oh yeah final drive gears why are the 3.54 or 4.10 gears offered that year with the gasoline engines any different than the 3.54 or 4.10 gears offered with the diesel option of that same year of all the responses that were to the op this one is the most rational and well stated.......... g damn tom how dare you come in here and make sense. vbg . 222 341276 pkqaj.46860$k27.121@big6.bellsouth.net front suspension the diesel engine weighs much more than the gas burner thus requires heavier springs by entire front suspension if you mean the two coil springs then yes. since that also involves removing and replacing the shocks that will take all of 30 minutes. change out the springs and shocks in 30 minutes i would pay money to see it done that quickly. post the video on youtube when you pull that off. it takes me that much time to gather the tools and parts. and exhaust system. yep. this is an aftermarket turbo-back setup that runs around $400 and will take about 20 minutes to put in since the whole old exhaust system simply gets sawz-alld out once again 20 minutes to remove the old and put in the new you just going to sawzall off the brackets and let the rest go no bolt on exhaust i have ever put on went as smoothly as the manufacturer claimed. i need to know how to deal with rusty wrung off bolts and such in a nascar pitstop timeframe. ill bet a cup of coffee this takes at least half a day. once again post the video to youtube. add dual batteries battery battery tray extra ground cable and heavy +12v cable to connect to the other battery. not exactly rocket science. entire fuel system including tank and lines no not rocket science but time more time on the job. bet it takes another half a day for this one. no the tank is the same big plastic box. new fuel lines sure... if it were me id do a frame-mounted pusher pump so therefore a short return line and a single flexible fuel line up to the engines injection pump. at least one of those pusher pumps comes with a new dip tube and returns via the filler neck vent so the existing fuel pump module can simply be gutted pump removed its ports plugged and simply re-used. you may be correct. i was assuming that the way the moco does things the tanks would be different especially considering the fuel pump differences. all that aftermarket non factory change stuff you mentioned will work but i like to stick with factory stuff. driveshaft why because the transmision is different for the diesel than the gas burner. thus the overall length will probably differ. especially when you consider the mounting points of all components may change. add dual battery capabilities yep - covered that already basically every component of the truck except for the interior of the cab and windshield wipers has to a little over-dramatic dont you think theres nothing wrong with the drivetrain as its the same hd components that come with any hd pickup. lets see.... a ram 2500 of this generation with a 360 ships with a 5 speed nv4500 transmission. the 2500 with a cummins shipped with a 6 speed nv5600 tranny. different mounting different lengths thus a different length drive shaft. o.k. so the op could just have the length of his curent driveshaft changed. may as well do new universals while your at it. how fast can you do this it takes me an hour just to take the part to the driveshaft guy and deal with him and get back to the shop. that doesnt count picking it up when its finished. oh yeah i am not sure if the transfer case changes from the nv4500 to the nv5600 tranny. that is something to at least consider. oh yeah final drive gears why are the 3.54 or 4.10 gears offered that year with the gasoline engines any different than the 3.54 or 4.10 gears offered with the diesel option of that same year actually i thought the taller gear set that came standard on the 2500 series was 3.73. i would change the gear set out even if the ratio stayed the same because i would ex

From : tom lawrence

lets narrow things down a little bit.....assume this truck will not be my primary mode of transportaion when/if the project does take place. lets also assume funds will not be an issue. not saying im willing to spend a fortune on it...just dont think its going to cost the fortune a few of you think it is going to. well its official.... its just too complicated a job... will cost too much... take too much time... you dont know what youre in for... youre over your head... this will be a disaster... etc. etc. good luck with it .

From : roy

front suspension the diesel engine weighs much more than the gas burner thus requires heavier springs by entire front suspension if you mean the two coil springs then yes. since that also involves removing and replacing the shocks that will take all of 30 minutes. change out the springs and shocks in 30 minutes i would pay money to see it done that quickly. post the video on youtube when you pull that off. it takes me that much time to gather the tools and parts. and exhaust system. yep. this is an aftermarket turbo-back setup that runs around $400 and will take about 20 minutes to put in since the whole old exhaust system simply gets sawz-alld out once again 20 minutes to remove the old and put in the new you just going to sawzall off the brackets and let the rest go no bolt on exhaust i have ever put on went as smoothly as the manufacturer claimed. i need to know how to deal with rusty wrung off bolts and such in a nascar pitstop timeframe. ill bet a cup of coffee this takes at least half a day. once again post the video to youtube. add dual batteries battery battery tray extra ground cable and heavy +12v cable to connect to the other battery. not exactly rocket science. entire fuel system including tank and lines no not rocket science but time more time on the job. bet it takes another half a day for this one. no the tank is the same big plastic box. new fuel lines sure... if it were me id do a frame-mounted pusher pump so therefore a short return line and a single flexible fuel line up to the engines injection pump. at least one of those pusher pumps comes with a new dip tube and returns via the filler neck vent so the existing fuel pump module can simply be gutted pump removed its ports plugged and simply re-used. you may be correct. i was assuming that the way the moco does things the tanks would be different especially considering the fuel pump differences. all that aftermarket non factory change stuff you mentioned will work but i like to stick with factory stuff. driveshaft why because the transmision is different for the diesel than the gas burner. thus the overall length will probably differ. especially when you consider the mounting points of all components may change. add dual battery capabilities yep - covered that already basically every component of the truck except for the interior of the cab and windshield wipers has to a little over-dramatic dont you think theres nothing wrong with the drivetrain as its the same hd components that come with any hd pickup. lets see.... a ram 2500 of this generation with a 360 ships with a 5 speed nv4500 transmission. the 2500 with a cummins shipped with a 6 speed nv5600 tranny. different mounting different lengths thus a different length drive shaft. o.k. so the op could just have the length of his curent driveshaft changed. may as well do new universals while your at it. how fast can you do this it takes me an hour just to take the part to the driveshaft guy and deal with him and get back to the shop. that doesnt count picking it up when its finished. oh yeah i am not sure if the transfer case changes from the nv4500 to the nv5600 tranny. that is something to at least consider. oh yeah final drive gears why are the 3.54 or 4.10 gears offered that year with the gasoline engines any different than the 3.54 or 4.10 gears offered with the diesel option of that same year actually i thought the taller gear set that came standard on the 2500 series was 3.73. i would change the gear set out even if the ratio stayed the same because i would expext at 162k it was about time to do this and i wouldnt want the additional torque from the cummins twisting on worn out gears. since the truck is 4x4 gear wear is more likely and that is times two since the front axle pulls also. as i thought about it the op is going to need a different crossmember also. i am not being but a tad over-dramatic. changing radiator ac condensor adding intercooler entire wiring harness adding dual battery capability motor mounts crossmember wiring harness transmission fitting driveshaft computer fuel filler neck and fuel pump or complete fuel tank air intake system exhaust system computer etc. so if he uses a donor truck my next question is this. how did it become a donor if it is a totaled wreck then it was probably hit in the front end and all the cooling stuff is either shot or suspect. why get rid of an engine he knows how it was treated for something that is completely unknown. the last owner may have driven the donor vehicle for a quarter million miles without changing the oil. i can see so many aggrevating scenarios with this that coupled with the down the road parts/service nightmare of driving a bastardized i cant even comprehend the mindset that would think this is a workable solution. go to the truck deal

From : max dodge

yea max thats an r&r big deal. if thats what he was doing i would also be on the rah - rah committee. we are not talking about that here. what we are talking about swapping a 360 for a cummins which is a completely different animal. not really. the only thing youd be doing beyond an engine r&r is swapping out the wiring harness in order to accomodate the cummins. true there are some other details that would make the job complete such as coil springs and swapping in a dash that says diesel fuel only. what it comes down to tbone is the skill level of the individuals doing the job. from what youve said in just the past half day or so it leads me to believe that because you dont have the skill and yeah i know you dont so lets not go there you feel the job is impossible. its not impossible. the only thing id say about it is could a cummins truck be had cheaper than the engine and supporting cast maybe maybe not. -- max everyone is entitled to his own opinion he is not entitled to his own facts. sen. daniel patrick moynihan of new york .

From : ed h

front suspension the diesel engine weighs much more than the gas burner thus requires heavier springs by entire front suspension if you mean the two coil springs then yes. since that also involves removing and replacing the shocks that will take all of 30 minutes. change out the springs and shocks in 30 minutes i would pay money to see it done that quickly. post the video on youtube when you pull that off. it takes me that much time to gather the tools and parts. and exhaust system. yep. this is an aftermarket turbo-back setup that runs around $400 and will take about 20 minutes to put in since the whole old exhaust system simply gets sawz-alld out once again 20 minutes to remove the old and put in the new you just going to sawzall off the brackets and let the rest go no bolt on exhaust i have ever put on went as smoothly as the manufacturer claimed. i need to know how to deal with rusty wrung off bolts and such in a nascar pitstop timeframe. ill bet a cup of coffee this takes at least half a day. once again post the video to youtube. add dual batteries battery battery tray extra ground cable and heavy +12v cable to connect to the other battery. not exactly rocket science. entire fuel system including tank and lines no not rocket science but time more time on the job. bet it takes another half a day for this one. well i added a duel battery setup in my gas motivated 99 and the longest part of the project was finding a battery tray for the passenger side i finally opted for a new one from the dealer. once i had that it took only a few hours including running wires to the in cab switch fabricating a bracket to re-locate the stuff that was originally located where the second battery goes mounting the batttery isolater and connecting it all up. installing 2 batteries connected in parallel would have taken about 20 minutes tops. no the tank is the same big plastic box. new fuel lines sure... if it were me id do a frame-mounted pusher pump so therefore a short return line and a single flexible fuel line up to the engines injection pump. at least one of those pusher pumps comes with a new dip tube and returns via the filler neck vent so the existing fuel pump module can simply be gutted pump removed its ports plugged and simply re-used. you may be correct. i was assuming that the way the moco does things the tanks would be different especially considering the fuel pump differences. all that aftermarket non factory change stuff you mentioned will work but i like to stick with factory stuff. driveshaft why because the transmision is different for the diesel than the gas burner. thus the overall length will probably differ. especially when you consider the mounting points of all components may change. add dual battery capabilities yep - covered that already basically every component of the truck except for the interior of the cab and windshield wipers has to a little over-dramatic dont you think theres nothing wrong with the drivetrain as its the same hd components that come with any hd pickup. lets see.... a ram 2500 of this generation with a 360 ships with a 5 speed nv4500 transmission. the 2500 with a cummins shipped with a 6 speed nv5600 tranny. different mounting different lengths thus a different length drive shaft. o.k. so the op could just have the length of his curent driveshaft changed. may as well do new universals while your at it. how fast can you do this it takes me an hour just to take the part to the driveshaft guy and deal with him and get back to the shop. that doesnt count picking it up when its finished. oh yeah i am not sure if the transfer case changes from the nv4500 to the nv5600 tranny. that is something to at least consider. oh yeah final drive gears why are the 3.54 or 4.10 gears offered that year with the gasoline engines any different than the 3.54 or 4.10 gears offered with the diesel option of that same year actually i thought the taller gear set that came standard on the 2500 series was 3.73. i would change the gear set out even if the ratio stayed the same because i would expext at 162k it was about time to do this and i wouldnt want the additional torque from the cummins twisting on worn out gears. since the truck is 4x4 gear wear is more likely and that is times two since the front axle pulls also. as i thought about it the op is going to need a different crossmember also. i am not being but a tad over-dramatic. changing radiator ac condensor adding intercooler entire wiring harness adding dual battery capability motor mounts crossmember wiring harness transmission fitting driveshaft computer fuel filler neck and fuel pump or complete fuel tank air intake system exhaust system computer etc. so if he uses a donor truck my next question is this. how did it become a donor if it is a totaled wreck then

From : ed h

all i did was state that a similar conversion was done by a neighbor with a ford truck. i wasnt arguing one way or the other just stating that they succesfully drove it. i also gave an estimate of how long it took me to add a second battery to my truck which happened to refute nunyas claim that it would require a half day to complete. i regret that you took that as an argument for doing the conversion. how are my statements of what i experienced arguing ed you seemed to have missed the entire point. my point to denny was that i was not arguing with anybody and used similar posts on the other side of the discussion to make my point. i didnt take anything that you said as an argument. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving if your posts in this thread are examples of how you dont argue then i wonder how you post when you do argue *grin*. but seriously i wish you and your relations a merry christmas and a prosperous new year. .

From : tbone

max dodge wrote mopar specifies an r&r on a cummins as taking 40 hours. a lift would be a plus but jackstands and a floor jack and an engine crane would more than do the job. 40 hours whats so much more complex than a gasser that would take so long not saying it doesnt just wondering what the issue is that takes so long. what makes you think that this is a long time 40 man hours is not all that long. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

going to sawzall off the brackets and let the rest go no bolt on exhaust i have ever put on went as smoothly as the manufacturer claimed. i need to know how to deal with rusty wrung off bolts and such in a nascar pitstop timeframe. ill bet a cup of coffee this takes at least half a day. once again post the video to youtube. add dual batteries battery battery tray extra ground cable and heavy +12v cable to connect to the other battery. not exactly rocket science. entire fuel system including tank and lines no not rocket science but time more time on the job. bet it takes another half a day for this one. well i added a duel battery setup in my gas motivated 99 and the longest part of the project was finding a battery tray for the passenger side i finally opted for a new one from the dealer. once i had that it took only a few hours including running wires to the in cab switch fabricating a bracket to re-locate the stuff that was originally located where the second battery goes mounting the batttery isolater and connecting it all up. installing 2 batteries connected in parallel would have taken about 20 minutes tops. no the tank is the same big plastic box. new fuel lines sure... if it were me id do a frame-mounted pusher pump so therefore a short return line and a single flexible fuel line up to the engines injection pump. at least one of those pusher pumps comes with a new dip tube and returns via the filler neck vent so the existing fuel pump module can simply be gutted pump removed its ports plugged and simply re-used. you may be correct. i was assuming that the way the moco does things the tanks would be different especially considering the fuel pump differences. all that aftermarket non factory change stuff you mentioned will work but i like to stick with factory stuff. driveshaft why because the transmision is different for the diesel than the gas burner. thus the overall length will probably differ. especially when you consider the mounting points of all components may change. add dual battery capabilities yep - covered that already basically every component of the truck except for the interior of the cab and windshield wipers has to a little over-dramatic dont you think theres nothing wrong with the drivetrain as its the same hd components that come with any hd pickup. lets see.... a ram 2500 of this generation with a 360 ships with a 5 speed nv4500 transmission. the 2500 with a cummins shipped with a 6 speed nv5600 tranny. different mounting different lengths thus a different length drive shaft. o.k. so the op could just have the length of his curent driveshaft changed. may as well do new universals while your at it. how fast can you do this it takes me an hour just to take the part to the driveshaft guy and deal with him and get back to the shop. that doesnt count picking it up when its finished. oh yeah i am not sure if the transfer case changes from the nv4500 to the nv5600 tranny. that is something to at least consider. oh yeah final drive gears why are the 3.54 or 4.10 gears offered that year with the gasoline engines any different than the 3.54 or 4.10 gears offered with the diesel option of that same year actually i thought the taller gear set that came standard on the 2500 series was 3.73. i would change the gear set out even if the ratio stayed the same because i would expext at 162k it was about time to do this and i wouldnt want the additional torque from the cummins twisting on worn out gears. since the truck is 4x4 gear wear is more likely and that is times two since the front axle pulls also. as i thought about it the op is going to need a different crossmember also. i am not being but a tad over-dramatic. changing radiator ac condensor adding intercooler entire wiring harness adding dual battery capability motor mounts crossmember wiring harness transmission fitting driveshaft computer fuel filler neck and fuel pump or complete fuel tank air intake system exhaust system computer etc. so if he uses a donor truck my next question is this. how did it become a donor if it is a totaled wreck then it was probably hit in the front end and all the cooling stuff is either shot or suspect. why get rid of an engine he knows how it was treated for something that is completely unknown. the last owner may have driven the donor vehicle for a quarter million miles without changing the oil. i can see so many aggrevating scenarios with this that coupled with the down the road parts/service nightmare of driving a bastardized i cant even comprehend the mindset that would think this is a workable solution. go to the truck dealership and trade the gas burner for a comparable year model diesel. pay them 5k and be done with it. it will save at least two to three weeks of hard labor and he will be able to walk into the local moco parts dealer a

From : tbone

front suspension the diesel engine weighs much more than the gas burner thus requires heavier springs by entire front suspension if you mean the two coil springs then yes. since that also involves removing and replacing the shocks that will take all of 30 minutes. and exhaust system. yep. this is an aftermarket turbo-back setup that runs around $400 and will take about 20 minutes to put in since the whole old exhaust system simply gets sawz-alld out add dual batteries battery battery tray extra ground cable and heavy +12v cable to connect to the other battery. not exactly rocket science. entire fuel system including tank and lines no the tank is the same big plastic box. new fuel lines sure... if it were me id do a frame-mounted pusher pump so therefore a short return line and a single flexible fuel line up to the engines injection pump. at least one of those pusher pumps comes with a new dip tube and returns via the filler neck vent so the existing fuel pump module can simply be gutted pump removed its ports plugged and simply re-used. driveshaft why add dual battery capabilities yep - covered that already basically every component of the truck except for the interior of the cab and windshield wipers has to a little over-dramatic dont you think theres nothing wrong with the drivetrain as its the same hd components that come with any hd pickup. oh yeah final drive gears why are the 3.54 or 4.10 gears offered that year with the gasoline engines any different than the 3.54 or 4.10 gears offered with the diesel option of that same year of all the responses that were to the op this one is the most rational and well stated.......... g damn tom how dare you come in here and make sense. vbg lol yea except for the bullshit time estimates. the problem is that not everyone else has a heated and air conditioned 5 bay shop with multiple lifts and tools and equipment that would probably rival some small dealerships all to themselves. it gets much easier when you have the space and equipment to perform this level of work. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

front suspension the diesel engine weighs much more than the gas burner thus requires heavier springs by entire front suspension if you mean the two coil springs then yes. since that also involves removing and replacing the shocks that will take all of 30 minutes. and exhaust system. yep. this is an aftermarket turbo-back setup that runs around $400 and will take about 20 minutes to put in since the whole old exhaust system simply gets sawz-alld out add dual batteries battery battery tray extra ground cable and heavy +12v cable to connect to the other battery. not exactly rocket science. entire fuel system including tank and lines no the tank is the same big plastic box. new fuel lines sure... if it were me id do a frame-mounted pusher pump so therefore a short return line and a single flexible fuel line up to the engines injection pump. at least one of those pusher pumps comes with a new dip tube and returns via the filler neck vent so the existing fuel pump module can simply be gutted pump removed its ports plugged and simply re-used. driveshaft why add dual battery capabilities yep - covered that already basically every component of the truck except for the interior of the cab and windshield wipers has to a little over-dramatic dont you think theres nothing wrong with the drivetrain as its the same hd components that come with any hd pickup. oh yeah final drive gears why are the 3.54 or 4.10 gears offered that year with the gasoline engines any different than the 3.54 or 4.10 gears offered with the diesel option of that same year of all the responses that were to the op this one is the most rational and well stated.......... g damn tom how dare you come in here and make sense. vbg lol yea except for the bullshit time estimates. the problem is that not everyone else has a heated and air conditioned 5 bay shop with multiple lifts and tools and equipment that would probably rival some small dealerships all to themselves. it gets much easier when you have the space and equipment to perform this level of work. if a person doesnt have the one thing you left and that is the know how then you naysers are correct. what are you talking about the questions that he asked in his initial post shows that he never attempted anything like this before. a couple of floor jacks and some air tools and it is a cake walk if you know wtf your doing. a lift is a plus i agree but it is more than doable on jack stands. really please explain exactly what air tools are required alone to lift the 360 out and drop the cummins in. if you are depending on the floor jacks to do this you must have some really impressive ones with one hell of a lift. the fact that you are calling it a cake walk shows that you really dont have a clue. can it be done...sure it can. could las do it i dont know and neither do you but since he made those mods to his jet ski i would say that he does know how to use his tools and probably could make the conversion but it still wouldnt be a cake walk for him or anyone else. the point is as it always was while it can be done why would anyone want to after all is said and done he wont have anything that he couldnt just go out and buy and probably buy it for much less money and no work on his part but hey....if he has a whole lot of money and time to waste i wish him the best.. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : denny

front suspension the diesel engine weighs much more than the gas burner thus requires heavier springs by entire front suspension if you mean the two coil springs then yes. since that also involves removing and replacing the shocks that will take all of 30 minutes. and exhaust system. yep. this is an aftermarket turbo-back setup that runs around $400 and will take about 20 minutes to put in since the whole old exhaust system simply gets sawz-alld out add dual batteries battery battery tray extra ground cable and heavy +12v cable to connect to the other battery. not exactly rocket science. entire fuel system including tank and lines no the tank is the same big plastic box. new fuel lines sure... if it were me id do a frame-mounted pusher pump so therefore a short return line and a single flexible fuel line up to the engines injection pump. at least one of those pusher pumps comes with a new dip tube and returns via the filler neck vent so the existing fuel pump module can simply be gutted pump removed its ports plugged and simply re-used. driveshaft why add dual battery capabilities yep - covered that already basically every component of the truck except for the interior of the cab and windshield wipers has to a little over-dramatic dont you think theres nothing wrong with the drivetrain as its the same hd components that come with any hd pickup. oh yeah final drive gears why are the 3.54 or 4.10 gears offered that year with the gasoline engines any different than the 3.54 or 4.10 gears offered with the diesel option of that same year of all the responses that were to the op this one is the most rational and well stated.......... g damn tom how dare you come in here and make sense. vbg lol yea except for the bullshit time estimates. the problem is that not everyone else has a heated and air conditioned 5 bay shop with multiple lifts and tools and equipment that would probably rival some small dealerships all to themselves. it gets much easier when you have the space and equipment to perform this level of work. if a person doesnt have the one thing you left and that is the know how then you naysers are correct. a couple of floor jacks and some air tools and it is a cake walk if you know wtf your doing. a lift is a plus i agree but it is more than doable on jack stands. .

From : max dodge

max dodge wrote mopar specifies an r&r on a cummins as taking 40 hours. a lift would be a plus but jackstands and a floor jack and an engine crane would more than do the job. 40 hours whats so much more complex than a gasser that would take so long not saying it doesnt just wondering what the issue is that takes so long. im betting thats the book time and the tech does it in less. regardless the issue is that to lift the engine out of the truck the entire front end has to come off excepting the fenders. by this i mean the radiator intercooler etc as well as the core support brace that crosses front and center on the engine bay. -- max everyone is entitled to his own opinion he is not entitled to his own facts. sen. daniel patrick moynihan of new york .

From : tbone

lol yea except for the bullshit time estimates. the problem is that not everyone else has a heated and air conditioned 5 bay shop with multiple lifts and tools and equipment that would probably rival some small dealerships all to themselves. it gets much easier when you have the space and equipment to perform this level of work. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tbone im just curious. what do you do for fun other than to argue in groups you have to do something for fun sometimes.. well i guess that im curious as well. why is it that even tough there are multiple people on boths sides of this discussion i seem to you to be the only one arguing how is roys tom ls eds or anyone elses in this discussion any different i guess just cause you seem to have the most fun in doing it.. bg well i cant deny that but this time im not really arguing. im just looking for a valid reason to take on such a project. ive been staying out of it mostly cause i see both sides of if. yes it is a big project. yes is would be more cost effective to just go buy one. but ive taken on some really stupid projects just because i was bored and wanted something to do. as have i which is why im taking the side that i am. try building a stock altered class garden tractor puller from scratch sometime when you get bored. let me know if you want some spare parts.. bg lol actually i may have some questions for you about this very thing. not that i;m building a competition puller like you do but i need to convert a small lawn tractor if you could even call it that into a landscaping trailer puller for a friend. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : roy

front suspension the diesel engine weighs much more than the gas burner thus requires heavier springs by entire front suspension if you mean the two coil springs then yes. since that also involves removing and replacing the shocks that will take all of 30 minutes. and exhaust system. yep. this is an aftermarket turbo-back setup that runs around $400 and will take about 20 minutes to put in since the whole old exhaust system simply gets sawz-alld out add dual batteries battery battery tray extra ground cable and heavy +12v cable to connect to the other battery. not exactly rocket science. entire fuel system including tank and lines no the tank is the same big plastic box. new fuel lines sure... if it were me id do a frame-mounted pusher pump so therefore a short return line and a single flexible fuel line up to the engines injection pump. at least one of those pusher pumps comes with a new dip tube and returns via the filler neck vent so the existing fuel pump module can simply be gutted pump removed its ports plugged and simply re-used. driveshaft why add dual battery capabilities yep - covered that already basically every component of the truck except for the interior of the cab and windshield wipers has to a little over-dramatic dont you think theres nothing wrong with the drivetrain as its the same hd components that come with any hd pickup. oh yeah final drive gears why are the 3.54 or 4.10 gears offered that year with the gasoline engines any different than the 3.54 or 4.10 gears offered with the diesel option of that same year of all the responses that were to the op this one is the most rational and well stated.......... g damn tom how dare you come in here and make sense. vbg lol yea except for the bullshit time estimates. the problem is that not everyone else has a heated and air conditioned 5 bay shop with multiple lifts and tools and equipment that would probably rival some small dealerships all to themselves. it gets much easier when you have the space and equipment to perform this level of work. if a person doesnt have the one thing you left and that is the know how then you naysers are correct. what are you talking about the questions that he asked in his initial post shows that he never attempted anything like this before. a couple of floor jacks and some air tools and it is a cake walk if you know wtf your doing. a lift is a plus i agree but it is more than doable on jack stands. really please explain exactly what air tools are required alone to lift the 360 out and drop the cummins in. tom your talking like a idiot. or your lack of hands on is showing. if you are depending on the floor jacks to do this you must have some really impressive ones with one hell of a lift. you are probably the only person who read this and took that air tools meant pull the engine. air tools speed up the work big time. most here would figure one would use the air tools for r&r and a cherry picker for the pull. i forgot that you might not pick up on that. i apologize. the fact that you are calling it a cake walk shows that you really dont have a clue. thats the difference between you and me. i know wtf im doing you i guess dont so it wouldnt be a cake walk for you.. can it be done...sure it can. could las do it i dont know and neither do you but since he made those mods to his jet ski i would say that he does know how to use his tools and probably could make the conversion but it still wouldnt be a cake walk for him or anyone else. damn tom you put the donor and take things apart. you then pull the recipent in and strip and put it back together. it is nuts and bolts. the point is as it always was while it can be done why would anyone want to because he can!! after all is said and done he wont have anything that he couldnt just go out and buy and probably buy it for much less money and no work on his part but hey....if he has a whole lot of money and time to waste but its his money and a project can be enjoyable. i wish him the best.. as do i .

From : denny

lol yea except for the bullshit time estimates. the problem is that not everyone else has a heated and air conditioned 5 bay shop with multiple lifts and tools and equipment that would probably rival some small dealerships all to themselves. it gets much easier when you have the space and equipment to perform this level of work. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tbone im just curious. what do you do for fun other than to argue in groups you have to do something for fun sometimes.. well i guess that im curious as well. why is it that even tough there are multiple people on boths sides of this discussion i seem to you to be the only one arguing how is roys tom ls eds or anyone elses in this discussion any different i guess just cause you seem to have the most fun in doing it.. bg well i cant deny that but this time im not really arguing. im just looking for a valid reason to take on such a project. i guess the best reason is cause he wants to. ive been staying out of it mostly cause i see both sides of if. yes it is a big project. yes is would be more cost effective to just go buy one. but ive taken on some really stupid projects just because i was bored and wanted something to do. as have i which is why im taking the side that i am. try building a stock altered class garden tractor puller from scratch sometime when you get bored. let me know if you want some spare parts.. bg lol actually i may have some questions for you about this very thing. not that i;m building a competition puller like you do but i need to convert a small lawn tractor if you could even call it that into a landscaping trailer puller for a friend. ask away. a torch grinder and welder and most anything is possible. a metal cutting bandsaw helps a bunch too. denny -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : ed h

all i did was state that a similar conversion was done by a neighbor with a ford truck. i wasnt arguing one way or the other just stating that they succesfully drove it. i also gave an estimate of how long it took me to add a second battery to my truck which happened to refute nunyas claim that it would require a half day to complete. i regret that you took that as an argument for doing the conversion. how are my statements of what i experienced arguing i dont have any bones to pick with you pun intended. in the past you have stated that i may carry a discussion too far a claim i cant refute. maybe im not the only one to carry a discussion too far. lol yea except for the bullshit time estimates. the problem is that not everyone else has a heated and air conditioned 5 bay shop with multiple lifts and tools and equipment that would probably rival some small dealerships all to themselves. it gets much easier when you have the space and equipment to perform this level of work. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tbone im just curious. what do you do for fun other than to argue in groups you have to do something for fun sometimes.. well i guess that im curious as well. why is it that even tough there are multiple people on boths sides of this discussion i seem to you to be the only one arguing how is roys tom ls eds or anyone elses in this discussion any different -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

all i did was state that a similar conversion was done by a neighbor with a ford truck. i wasnt arguing one way or the other just stating that they succesfully drove it. i also gave an estimate of how long it took me to add a second battery to my truck which happened to refute nunyas claim that it would require a half day to complete. i regret that you took that as an argument for doing the conversion. how are my statements of what i experienced arguing ed you seemed to have missed the entire point. my point to denny was that i was not arguing with anybody and used similar posts on the other side of the discussion to make my point. i didnt take anything that you said as an argument. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tom lawrence

i was not arguing with anybody and used similar posts on the other side of the discussion to make my point. well while this isnt a direct refute and admittedly i only have the posts from the 10th on heres a count of the number of posts by various people you - 16 roy - 13 laszlo - 5 me - 5 denny - 3 youre outpacing the guy who started the thread more than 31. if youre not arguing then you sure do have a lot of opinions on how others should spend their time and money. .

From : miles

max dodge wrote mopar specifies an r&r on a cummins as taking 40 hours. a lift would be a plus but jackstands and a floor jack and an engine crane would more than do the job. 40 hours whats so much more complex than a gasser that would take so long not saying it doesnt just wondering what the issue is that takes so long. .

From : tbone

a couple of floor jacks and some air tools and it is a cake walk if you know wtf your doing. a lift is a plus i agree but it is more than doable on jack stands. really please explain exactly what air tools are required alone to lift the 360 out and drop the cummins in. tom your talking like a idiot. or your lack of hands on is showing. really who is the one who said that it would be a cake walk with a few air tools and some floor jacks i dont call weeks or more of hard work provided nothing goes wrong a cake walk. perhaps you have a different definition. if you are depending on the floor jacks to do this you must have some really impressive ones with one hell of a lift. you are probably the only person who read this and took that air tools meant pull the engine. air tools speed up the work big time. most here would figure one would use the air tools for r&r and a cherry picker for the pull. i forgot that you might not pick up on that. i apologize. but thats not what you said. you make it sound like if you have a few air tools that this conversion would be quick and easy and that simply is not true. i know what you meant the fact that you are calling it a cake walk shows that you really dont have a clue. thats the difference between you and me. i know wtf im doing you i guess dont so it wouldnt be a cake walk for you.. and exactly how many of these swaps have you done while is probably could be done by many in this group it wouldnt be a cake walk for any of them. can it be done...sure it can. could las do it i dont know and neither do you but since he made those mods to his jet ski i would say that he does know how to use his tools and probably could make the conversion but it still wouldnt be a cake walk for him or anyone else. damn tom you put the donor and take things apart. you then pull the recipent in and strip and put it back together. it is nuts and bolts. now you are assuming that the donor will have all of the parts all will be usable and that everything simply unbolts and bolts right back up. even if all that were true and it usually isnt it is a hell of a lot of work time and money. sorry but that is not the definition of a cake walk. the point is as it always was while it can be done why would anyone want to because he can!! that is just about the dumbest reply so far and you talk about me talking like an idiot. after all is said and done he wont have anything that he couldnt just go out and buy and probably buy it for much less money and no work on his part but hey....if he has a whole lot of money and time to waste but its his money and a project can be enjoyable. unless it gets too long and or too expensive for what the end result will be. then it will just become a waste of time and money and in many cases uncompleted. all im saying is that it is going to be far more expensive and time consuming then he thinks and to not just jump into it with his head up his ass because the only one who will get burned for it is himself. you can go on being the rah - rah committee but you are really doing nobody any favors. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : max dodge

mopar specifies an r&r on a cummins as taking 40 hours. a lift would be a plus but jackstands and a floor jack and an engine crane would more than do the job. -- max everyone is entitled to his own opinion he is not entitled to his own facts. sen. daniel patrick moynihan of new york a couple of floor jacks and some air tools and it is a cake walk if you know wtf your doing. a lift is a plus i agree but it is more than doable on jack stands. really please explain exactly what air tools are required alone to lift the 360 out and drop the cummins in. tom your talking like a idiot. or your lack of hands on is showing. really who is the one who said that it would be a cake walk with a few air tools and some floor jacks i dont call weeks or more of hard work provided nothing goes wrong a cake walk. perhaps you have a different definition. if you are depending on the floor jacks to do this you must have some really impressive ones with one hell of a lift. you are probably the only person who read this and took that air tools meant pull the engine. air tools speed up the work big time. most here would figure one would use the air tools for r&r and a cherry picker for the pull. i forgot that you might not pick up on that. i apologize. but thats not what you said. you make it sound like if you have a few air tools that this conversion would be quick and easy and that simply is not true. i know what you meant the fact that you are calling it a cake walk shows that you really dont have a clue. thats the difference between you and me. i know wtf im doing you i guess dont so it wouldnt be a cake walk for you.. and exactly how many of these swaps have you done while is probably could be done by many in this group it wouldnt be a cake walk for any of them. can it be done...sure it can. could las do it i dont know and neither do you but since he made those mods to his jet ski i would say that he does know how to use his tools and probably could make the conversion but it still wouldnt be a cake walk for him or anyone else. damn tom you put the donor and take things apart. you then pull the recipent in and strip and put it back together. it is nuts and bolts. now you are assuming that the donor will have all of the parts all will be usable and that everything simply unbolts and bolts right back up. even if all that were true and it usually isnt it is a hell of a lot of work time and money. sorry but that is not the definition of a cake walk. the point is as it always was while it can be done why would anyone want to because he can!! that is just about the dumbest reply so far and you talk about me talking like an idiot. after all is said and done he wont have anything that he couldnt just go out and buy and probably buy it for much less money and no work on his part but hey....if he has a whole lot of money and time to waste but its his money and a project can be enjoyable. unless it gets too long and or too expensive for what the end result will be. then it will just become a waste of time and money and in many cases uncompleted. all im saying is that it is going to be far more expensive and time consuming then he thinks and to not just jump into it with his head up his ass because the only one who will get burned for it is himself. you can go on being the rah - rah committee but you are really doing nobody any favors. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

yea max thats an r&r big deal. if thats what he was doing i would also be on the rah - rah committee. we are not talking about that here. what we are talking about swapping a 360 for a cummins which is a completely different animal. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving mopar specifies an r&r on a cummins as taking 40 hours. a lift would be a plus but jackstands and a floor jack and an engine crane would more than do the job. -- max everyone is entitled to his own opinion he is not entitled to his own facts. sen. daniel patrick moynihan of new york a couple of floor jacks and some air tools and it is a cake walk if you know wtf your doing. a lift is a plus i agree but it is more than doable on jack stands. really please explain exactly what air tools are required alone to lift the 360 out and drop the cummins in. tom your talking like a idiot. or your lack of hands on is showing. really who is the one who said that it would be a cake walk with a few air tools and some floor jacks i dont call weeks or more of hard work provided nothing goes wrong a cake walk. perhaps you have a different definition. if you are depending on the floor jacks to do this you must have some really impressive ones with one hell of a lift. you are probably the only person who read this and took that air tools meant pull the engine. air tools speed up the work big time. most here would figure one would use the air tools for r&r and a cherry picker for the pull. i forgot that you might not pick up on that. i apologize. but thats not what you said. you make it sound like if you have a few air tools that this conversion would be quick and easy and that simply is not true. i know what you meant the fact that you are calling it a cake walk shows that you really dont have a clue. thats the difference between you and me. i know wtf im doing you i guess dont so it wouldnt be a cake walk for you.. and exactly how many of these swaps have you done while is probably could be done by many in this group it wouldnt be a cake walk for any of them. can it be done...sure it can. could las do it i dont know and neither do you but since he made those mods to his jet ski i would say that he does know how to use his tools and probably could make the conversion but it still wouldnt be a cake walk for him or anyone else. damn tom you put the donor and take things apart. you then pull the recipent in and strip and put it back together. it is nuts and bolts. now you are assuming that the donor will have all of the parts all will be usable and that everything simply unbolts and bolts right back up. even if all that were true and it usually isnt it is a hell of a lot of work time and money. sorry but that is not the definition of a cake walk. the point is as it always was while it can be done why would anyone want to because he can!! that is just about the dumbest reply so far and you talk about me talking like an idiot. after all is said and done he wont have anything that he couldnt just go out and buy and probably buy it for much less money and no work on his part but hey....if he has a whole lot of money and time to waste but its his money and a project can be enjoyable. unless it gets too long and or too expensive for what the end result will be. then it will just become a waste of time and money and in many cases uncompleted. all im saying is that it is going to be far more expensive and time consuming then he thinks and to not just jump into it with his head up his ass because the only one who will get burned for it is himself. you can go on being the rah - rah committee but you are really doing nobody any favors. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : roy

a couple of floor jacks and some air tools and it is a cake walk if you know wtf your doing. a lift is a plus i agree but it is more than doable on jack stands. really please explain exactly what air tools are required alone to lift the 360 out and drop the cummins in. tom your talking like a idiot. or your lack of hands on is showing. really who is the one who said that it would be a cake walk with a few air tools and some floor jacks i dont call weeks or more of hard work provided nothing goes wrong a cake walk. perhaps you have a different definition. yup i do. laz and a few of his friends should have this up in running in a few good week ends. if they have the know how. if you are depending on the floor jacks to do this you must have some really impressive ones with one hell of a lift. you are probably the only person who read this and took that air tools meant pull the engine. air tools speed up the work big time. most here would figure one would use the air tools for r&r and a cherry picker for the pull. i forgot that you might not pick up on that. i apologize. but thats not what you said. you make it sound like if you have a few air tools that this conversion would be quick and easy and that simply is not true. i know what you meant a few weekends with friends tom. the fact that you are calling it a cake walk shows that you really dont have a clue. thats the difference between you and me. i know wtf im doing you i guess dont so it wouldnt be a cake walk for you.. and exactly how many of these swaps have you done while is probably could be done by many in this group it wouldnt be a cake walk for any of them. a cummins conversion none. a cummins r&r 1 a friend melted a piston. took us 3 days. no lift. can it be done...sure it can. could las do it i dont know and neither do you but since he made those mods to his jet ski i would say that he does know how to use his tools and probably could make the conversion but it still wouldnt be a cake walk for him or anyone else. damn tom you put the donor and take things apart. you then pull the recipent in and strip and put it back together. it is nuts and bolts. now you are assuming that the donor will have all of the parts all will be usable and that everything simply unbolts and bolts right back up. even if all that were true and it usually isnt it is a hell of a lot of work time and money. sorry but that is not the definition of a cake walk. the point is as it always was while it can be done why would anyone want to because he can!! that is just about the dumbest reply so far and you talk about me talking like an idiot. see tom you truly dont get it. for the same reason some change the intake and cam in their trucks why some put on a bottle why some use a aftermarket trans why some change the rear gears. for the same reason im hunting down a weber carb and headers for the 81 cj im playing with. because i want to and because i can!! i guess ill just stay dumb and happy. after all is said and done he wont have anything that he couldnt just go out and buy and probably buy it for much less money and no work on his part but hey....if he has a whole lot of money and time to waste but its his money and a project can be enjoyable. unless it gets too long and or too expensive for what the end result will be. key word unless. .then it will just become a waste of time and money and in many cases uncompleted. based on your experience im sure. all im saying is that it is going to be far more expensive and time consuming then he thinks htf do you know what he thinks you dont. and to not just jump into it with his head up his ass because the only one who will get burned for it is himself. more of your experience you can go on being the rah - rah committee but you are really doing nobody any favors. not trying to do anybody any favors tom just pointing out that it is doable if one knows what they are doing. .

From : carolina watercraft works

hhmm....more than enough tools to accomplish the task. fllor stands floor jacks both metric and sae my hoist is a 3000 pound forklift. time...i have plenty of. found one donor for $2500...but looking for one that is newer. i have the knowledge the desire and the ability to make it happen. just trying to see if anyone had some useable input rather than nah....youd be better off yadda yadda blah blah.... tbone...please stfu already with your negative input. it appears you dont receive any satisfaction from doing something someone else hasnt really done. people with little more negative to say are annoying as heck. im sure you wouldnt oblidge my request...but ill give it a shot. tbone...would you please stay out of this thread -- ------------------------------------------ laszlo almasi ----cool toys formerly carolina watercraft works ----mack daddy trailers ----ice angels a couple of floor jacks and some air tools and it is a cake walk if you know wtf your doing. a lift is a plus i agree but it is more than doable on jack stands. really please explain exactly what air tools are required alone to lift the 360 out and drop the cummins in. tom your talking like a idiot. or your lack of hands on is showing. really who is the one who said that it would be a cake walk with a few air tools and some floor jacks i dont call weeks or more of hard work provided nothing goes wrong a cake walk. perhaps you have a different definition. yup i do. laz and a few of his friends should have this up in running in a few good week ends. if they have the know how. if you are depending on the floor jacks to do this you must have some really impressive ones with one hell of a lift. you are probably the only person who read this and took that air tools meant pull the engine. air tools speed up the work big time. most here would figure one would use the air tools for r&r and a cherry picker for the pull. i forgot that you might not pick up on that. i apologize. but thats not what you said. you make it sound like if you have a few air tools that this conversion would be quick and easy and that simply is not true. i know what you meant a few weekends with friends tom. the fact that you are calling it a cake walk shows that you really dont have a clue. thats the difference between you and me. i know wtf im doing you i guess dont so it wouldnt be a cake walk for you.. and exactly how many of these swaps have you done while is probably could be done by many in this group it wouldnt be a cake walk for any of them. a cummins conversion none. a cummins r&r 1 a friend melted a piston. took us 3 days. no lift. can it be done...sure it can. could las do it i dont know and neither do you but since he made those mods to his jet ski i would say that he does know how to use his tools and probably could make the conversion but it still wouldnt be a cake walk for him or anyone else. damn tom you put the donor and take things apart. you then pull the recipent in and strip and put it back together. it is nuts and bolts. now you are assuming that the donor will have all of the parts all will be usable and that everything simply unbolts and bolts right back up. even if all that were true and it usually isnt it is a hell of a lot of work time and money. sorry but that is not the definition of a cake walk. the point is as it always was while it can be done why would anyone want to because he can!! that is just about the dumbest reply so far and you talk about me talking like an idiot. see tom you truly dont get it. for the same reason some change the intake and cam in their trucks why some put on a bottle why some use a aftermarket trans why some change the rear gears. for the same reason im hunting down a weber carb and headers for the 81 cj im playing with. because i want to and because i can!! i guess ill just stay dumb and happy. after all is said and done he wont have anything that he couldnt just go out and buy and probably buy it for much less money and no work on his part but hey....if he has a whole lot of money and time to waste but its his money and a project can be enjoyable. unless it gets too long and or too expensive for what the end result will be. key word unless. .then it will just become a waste of time and money and in many cases uncompleted. based on your experience im sure. all im saying is that it is going to be far more expensive and time consuming then he thinks htf do you know what he thinks you dont. and to not just jump into it with his head up his ass because the only one who will get burned for it is himself. more of your experience you can go on being the rah - rah committee but you are really doing nobody any favors. not trying to do anybody any favors tom just pointing out that it is doable if one knows what they are doing.

From : denny

mopar specifies an r&r on a cummins as taking 40 hours. a lift would be a plus but jackstands and a floor jack and an engine crane would more than do the job. not sure where you got your time from but alldatapro calls for a retail time for r&r of 14.8 hrs including transfer of parts. it doesnt give the warrenty time but you can bet your sweet ass its less than half of that. denny .

From : denny

mopar specifies an r&r on a cummins as taking 40 hours. a lift would be a plus but jackstands and a floor jack and an engine crane would more than do the job. edit to my last post. i didnt add on the other stuff... complete assembly with transfer of parts b 0.0 14.8 notes includes transfer all fuel and electrical units. does not include transfer of optional equipment. note with skid plate add b 0.0 0.5 notes with auto trans add b 0.0 1.4 notes with ps add b 0.0 0.4 notes with manual trans add b 0.0 2.4 notes with ac add b 0.0 0.6 notes it still dont come close to 40 hours tho. i wish i could go by your books at work.. bg denny .

From : christopher thompson

on mon 24 dec 2007 221423 -0500 denny wrote mopar specifies an r&r on a cummins as taking 40 hours. a lift would be a plus but jackstands and a floor jack and an engine crane would more than do the job. not sure where you got your time from but alldatapro calls for a retail time for r&r of 14.8 hrs including transfer of parts. it doesnt give the warrenty time but you can bet your sweet ass its less than half of that. denny lmao i thought i was the only tech to ever notice that one.... -- chris .

From : christopher thompson

on mon 24 dec 2007 222059 -0500 denny wrote mopar specifies an r&r on a cummins as taking 40 hours. a lift would be a plus but jackstands and a floor jack and an engine crane would more than do the job. edit to my last post. i didnt add on the other stuff... complete assembly with transfer of parts b 0.0 14.8 notes includes transfer all fuel and electrical units. does not include transfer of optional equipment. note with skid plate add b 0.0 0.5 notes with auto trans add b 0.0 1.4 notes with ps add b 0.0 0.4 notes with manual trans add b 0.0 2.4 notes with ac add b 0.0 0.6 notes it still dont come close to 40 hours tho. i wish i could go by your books at work.. bg denny if we had his book to go by at 5 star id still be there doing engine work! -- chris .

From : christopher thompson

on mon 24 dec 2007 205951 +0000 max dodge wrote mopar specifies an r&r on a cummins as taking 40 hours. a lift would be a plus but jackstands and a floor jack and an engine crane would more than do the job. im sorry but short of a full rebuild i find it hard to believe book time to remove & replace a engine assembly to be 40 hours. somewhere in the neighborhood of 14 i might buy. -- chris .

From : tbone

and the same to you and yours. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving all i did was state that a similar conversion was done by a neighbor with a ford truck. i wasnt arguing one way or the other just stating that they succesfully drove it. i also gave an estimate of how long it took me to add a second battery to my truck which happened to refute nunyas claim that it would require a half day to complete. i regret that you took that as an argument for doing the conversion. how are my statements of what i experienced arguing ed you seemed to have missed the entire point. my point to denny was that i was not arguing with anybody and used similar posts on the other side of the discussion to make my point. i didnt take anything that you said as an argument. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving if your posts in this thread are examples of how you dont argue then i wonder how you post when you do argue *grin*. but seriously i wish you and your relations a merry christmas and a prosperous new year. .

From : tbone

yea max thats an r&r big deal. if thats what he was doing i would also be on the rah - rah committee. we are not talking about that here. what we are talking about swapping a 360 for a cummins which is a completely different animal. not really. the only thing youd be doing beyond an engine r&r is swapping out the wiring harness in order to accomodate the cummins. true there are some other details that would make the job complete such as coil springs and swapping in a dash that says diesel fuel only. once again max. you more than prove that you really dont know wtf that you are talking about. what it comes down to tbone is the skill level of the individuals doing the job. from what youve said in just the past half day or so it leads me to believe that because you dont have the skill and yeah i know you dont so lets not go there you feel the job is impossible. its not impossible. the only thing id say about it is could a cummins truck be had cheaper than the engine and supporting cast maybe maybe not. despite your all to typical lame insults i could probably run circles around you in most things max. i never said that the job was impossible or even all that technically difficult. what i said was that it is a lot of work for what he will get out of it and he has made it clear that he wants to undertake this project so i wish him the best at it. have a happy holiday max. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : mac davis

on mon 24 dec 2007 221423 -0500 denny wddodge@woh.rr.com wrote mopar specifies an r&r on a cummins as taking 40 hours. a lift would be a plus but jackstands and a floor jack and an engine crane would more than do the job. not sure where you got your time from but alldatapro calls for a retail time for r&r of 14.8 hrs including transfer of parts. it doesnt give the warrenty time but you can bet your sweet ass its less than half of that. denny probably on of those 30/30 ones.. 30 miles or 30 min.. mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : roy

max dodge wrote mopar specifies an r&r on a cummins as taking 40 hours. a lift would be a plus but jackstands and a floor jack and an engine crane would more than do the job. 40 hours whats so much more complex than a gasser that would take so long not saying it doesnt just wondering what the issue is that takes so long. im betting thats the book time and the tech does it in less. regardless the issue is that to lift the engine out of the truck the entire front end has to come off excepting the fenders. by this i mean the radiator intercooler etc as well as the core support brace that crosses front and center on the engine bay. i wonder if you could leave the coolers/ac and radiator mounted just disconnect and swap all of it in one shot. we went the long way. a friends 2006 or 7 ford p/s blew a couple of head gaskets @ 47k. to r&r the heads it was pull the engine or move the cab. roy max everyone is entitled to his own opinion he is not entitled to his own facts. sen. daniel patrick moynihan of new york .

From : denny

max dodge wrote mopar specifies an r&r on a cummins as taking 40 hours. a lift would be a plus but jackstands and a floor jack and an engine crane would more than do the job. 40 hours whats so much more complex than a gasser that would take so long not saying it doesnt just wondering what the issue is that takes so long. im betting thats the book time and the tech does it in less. regardless the issue is that to lift the engine out of the truck the entire front end has to come off excepting the fenders. by this i mean the radiator intercooler etc as well as the core support brace that crosses front and center on the engine bay. i wonder if you could leave the coolers/ac and radiator mounted just disconnect and swap all of it in one shot. we went the long way. ya have to take the radiator/condensor/intercooler out and remove the upper support to get the room to move the engine. denny .

From : roy

max dodge wrote mopar specifies an r&r on a cummins as taking 40 hours. a lift would be a plus but jackstands and a floor jack and an engine crane would more than do the job. 40 hours whats so much more complex than a gasser that would take so long not saying it doesnt just wondering what the issue is that takes so long. im betting thats the book time and the tech does it in less. regardless the issue is that to lift the engine out of the truck the entire front end has to come off excepting the fenders. by this i mean the radiator intercooler etc as well as the core support brace that crosses front and center on the engine bay. i wonder if you could leave the coolers/ac and radiator mounted just disconnect and swap all of it in one shot. we went the long way. ya have to take the radiator/condensor/intercooler out and remove the upper support to get the room to move the engine. i was wondering where it was a swap if the whole radiator support with all the stuff mounted but disconnected could be removed in one piece rather than each cooler and stuff by itself. by itself. nice to read that you recieved some new clothes from santa. im sure he was able to find some large enough to stuff yer fat ass into.vbg hows mom doing roy denny .

From : denny

max dodge wrote mopar specifies an r&r on a cummins as taking 40 hours. a lift would be a plus but jackstands and a floor jack and an engine crane would more than do the job. 40 hours whats so much more complex than a gasser that would take so long not saying it doesnt just wondering what the issue is that takes so long. im betting thats the book time and the tech does it in less. regardless the issue is that to lift the engine out of the truck the entire front end has to come off excepting the fenders. by this i mean the radiator intercooler etc as well as the core support brace that crosses front and center on the engine bay. i wonder if you could leave the coolers/ac and radiator mounted just disconnect and swap all of it in one shot. we went the long way. ya have to take the radiator/condensor/intercooler out and remove the upper support to get the room to move the engine. i was wondering where it was a swap if the whole radiator support with all the stuff mounted but disconnected could be removed in one piece rather than each cooler and stuff by itself. by itself. nope. its a piece by piece type deal... nice to read that you recieved some new clothes from santa. im sure he was able to find some large enough to stuff yer fat ass into.vbg in the spirit of christmas holidays........ gfy!!! bg hows mom doing doing good. she stayed a one of the grandkids house last night going to my brothers house for lunch and my place for supper. shes gonna be one tired old woman by the time she gets home tonight. i cant hardly wait to get all this decoration stuff put away. my garage is a fricken disaster area. hell i cant even see my reloading desk.. denny .

From : roy

max dodge wrote mopar specifies an r&r on a cummins as taking 40 hours. a lift would be a plus but jackstands and a floor jack and an engine crane would more than do the job. 40 hours whats so much more complex than a gasser that would take so long not saying it doesnt just wondering what the issue is that takes so long. im betting thats the book time and the tech does it in less. regardless the issue is that to lift the engine out of the truck the entire front end has to come off excepting the fenders. by this i mean the radiator intercooler etc as well as the core support brace that crosses front and center on the engine bay. i wonder if you could leave the coolers/ac and radiator mounted just disconnect and swap all of it in one shot. we went the long way. ya have to take the radiator/condensor/intercooler out and remove the upper support to get the room to move the engine. i was wondering where it was a swap if the whole radiator support with all the stuff mounted but disconnected could be removed in one piece rather than each cooler and stuff by itself. by itself. nope. its a piece by piece type deal... nice to read that you recieved some new clothes from santa. im sure he was able to find some large enough to stuff yer fat ass into.vbg in the spirit of christmas holidays........ gfy!!! bg gee a little truth and ya lash out. g hows mom doing doing good. she stayed a one of the grandkids house last night going to my brothers house for lunch and my place for supper. shes gonna be one tired old woman by the time she gets home tonight. good that shes out and about. i cant hardly wait to get all this decoration stuff put away. my garage is a fricken disaster area. hell i cant even see my reloading desk.. yup this is one holiday that really turns the house upside down. but damn its fun!! roy denny .

From : roy

not really. the only thing youd be doing beyond an engine r&r is swapping out the wiring harness in order to accomodate the cummins. true there are some other details that would make the job complete such as coil springs and swapping in a dash that says diesel fuel only. once again max. you more than prove that you really dont know wtf that you are talking about. and as usual you have no counterpoint to the facts i present. it fascinates me that you can make the claims you do with no supporting evidence. despite your all to typical lame insults i could probably run circles around you in most things max. sadly you havent a clue. its not a lame insult tbone its the truth. my mechanical background would make you look silly and my acedemic background would shatter your sheltered world. if you truly think you can run circles around me then start posting info other than what youve read in technical bulletins. i never said that the job was impossible or even all that technically difficult. what i said was that it is a lot of work for what he will get out of it and he has made it clear that he wants to undertake this project so i wish him the best at it. have a happy holiday max. anyone that changes from gasoline to diesel knows that the work is worth it. ever driven one of these trucks long term if not its time to stifle yourself. -- max everyone is entitled to his own opinion he is not entitled to his own facts. sen. daniel patrick moynihan of new york .

From : max dodge

mi5 persecution. update friday 16 april 1999 if you intend. to reply please read this please.... keep your response to one page!. faxes over a page or two. will be. deleted without being read. bbc caster. nicholas witchell cant stop himself laughing during 1990-91 there. were very many instances of interactive television where. casters and other tv presenters saw on a screen before. them what was happening in my home and reacted frequently by laughing at me.. during this period i unfortunately did not record these programmes. for the last year or two. i have been recording everything i watch and there has been a drastic decrease in such. incidents. however on occasion television presenters. do still engage in interactive watching and. react to what they see. this has been evident with jon snow. of channel four recently - a particularly interesting case since it has been established that he cannot be corrupted by. money it is well-documented that mi5 offered him a tax-free salary. and he turned them. down. i wonder what device mi5 are using to encourage him to do the. interactive watching on saturday 10 april. 1999 at 7pm nicholas witchell on bbc2 reacted when he saw that i was watching the. programme and i have his reactions stored safely on videotape. i have. watched this tape several times and i am entirely confident that my evaluation of his reactions. is correct. for several minutes his upper lip quivered in mirth as he attempted to. keep a straight face. then finally his. self-control evaporated through the excuse of a. weak joke and his face collapsed into a grin. the strange thing is that i dont know why he was laughing. at me what i had done recently to. deserve to be laughed at. the mi5 persecutors usually. manage to invent some justification as to why people should laugh at and/or abuse me hes an x it was so funny etc so mr. witchell could have been laughing for any number of reasons. perhaps he. found the views i have been expressing in these articles amusing i suppose if. youre paid. enough money and ordered to laugh then even the most innocuous thing becomes. funny. jon snow of channel four cant. stop himself smirking either. on 12 february 1999 i was watching channel. four presented by jon snow. as usual i was recording the programme so that if anything out. of the ordinary happened id be able to go back and. watch it again. now jon. snow by his own claim is uncorruptible. he says he turned down an offer of a substantial. tax-free salary from mi5 - they wanted to make him their mouthpiece and he. told them where to get off. so you will be most surprised to learn that jon snow. interactively watched me. that evening and on many other evenings. approximately fifteen minutes. into the programme he announced that the us president would be making a live appearance at about 7.30pm; i looked at. the clock on the. mantelpiece; and snow saw me looking at the clock and visibly tried to suppress. a smirk. uncorruptible are you mister snow if not money then. why are you watching me mister snow are they forcing. you to watch me cant you turn the monitor. off mister snow keith hill mp labour - streatham my. elected representative as ever refuses to. help. comparing the mi5 persecution with. german final solution it might seem offensive to compare the. mass murder of millions of civilians in. wartime with the peacetime persecution of merely one person. yet the comparison has been coursing through my mind. for several years now because the. brutality of german intent to sub-humans is very much comparable to the brutality of british intent to someone. they vituperate and term not up to. british standards. the methods may differ but the persecutors mindset is the. same. the germans first targeted the. mentally disabled too during ww2 millions of ethnic russians poles jews. mentally ill gypsiesand other minorities. were rounded up and murdered in purpose-built camps by the german regime. in the name of racial superiority. fifty years on the british secret police mi5 instituted a. campaign of mass hysteria; but in their cowardice limited their activities to one. single victim. it is instructive to. note that the early german cleansing effort was directed primarily not at jews but at. the mentally ill. the nazis set up the. t4 project in the thirties to cleanse away 70000 mentally disabled people including schizophrenics and epileptics. after ww2 the. jews with their. media influence used the reaction from the holocaust to roll back anti-semitism in the western countries; however the. mentally ill are today. still a persecuted group in the modern western world as they were under the nazis the current jewish home secretary in the. uk intends to bring in laws for incarceration without any. criminal charge for some mentally ill people - he protects his own minority but does nothing. fo

From : tbone

not really. the only thing youd be doing beyond an engine r&r is swapping out the wiring harness in order to accomodate the cummins. true there are some other details that would make the job complete such as coil springs and swapping in a dash that says diesel fuel only. once again max. you more than prove that you really dont know wtf that you are talking about. and as usual you have no counterpoint to the facts i present. it fascinates me that you can make the claims you do with no supporting evidence. sorry max but the counter point has already been made and made by many including myself but you already knew that and once again resort to lame spin to boost your failing argument. the true facts are that if you really think that all that is involved is replacing the front wiring harness and a set of springs then you dont know wtf you are talking about. despite your all to typical lame insults i could probably run circles around you in most things max. sadly you havent a clue. its not a lame insult tbone its the truth. the truth according to you which to most here is just more of your delusions and your posts here so far just back me up. my mechanical background would make you look silly and my acedemic background would shatter your sheltered world. funny how you accuse me of having no counter point and then post this. you keep bragging max but you have yet anything to show for it in here anyways. i find that those who brag the most tend to have the least to offer. lets here about your mechanical background and exactly what acedemic degree you currently have if you truly think you can run circles around me then start posting info other than what youve read in technical bulletins. most of what i post here doesnt come from technical bulletins but even if that were true it is still far more than you ever provide. i never said that the job was impossible or even all that technically difficult. what i said was that it is a lot of work for what he will get out of it and he has made it clear that he wants to undertake this project so i wish him the best at it. have a happy holiday max. anyone that changes from gasoline to diesel knows that the work is worth it. lol we are not talking about the positives of diesel over gasoline here we are talking the advantages of converting an existing truck over just buying the damn thing. now if you are talking about peope that converted a modern gas powered truck to a diesel then name three. ever driven one of these trucks long term if not its time to stifle yourself. once again max and as usual you have no clue. i you insist on remaining an asshole even during the holiday season have at it but i really dont have the time to waste on you. if you have something valid to offer or say i would be glad to continue but otherwise you will just be talking to yourself. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tom lawrence

well given that i could count on one hand the number of times ive admitted in here to being far more educated than the average schmuck some of us average schmucks may take offense to that... .... but you know what i say - if they cant take a joke screw em .

From : max dodge

sorry max but the counter point has already been made and made by many including myself but you already knew that and once again resort to lame spin to boost your failing argument. the true facts are that if you really think that all that is involved is replacing the front wiring harness and a set of springs then you dont know wtf you are talking about. just because many people agree with you doesnt mean you have a clue. sadly you havent a clue. its not a lame insult tbone its the truth. the truth according to you which to most here is just more of your delusions and your posts here so far just back me up. again more bullshit. after how many years youve been here and you still dont deal in facts just the i know you are but what am i crap. funny how you accuse me of having no counter point and then post this. you keep bragging max but you have yet anything to show for it in here anyways. i find that those who brag the most tend to have the least to offer. lets here about your mechanical background and exactly what acedemic degree you currently have well given that i could count on one hand the number of times ive admitted in here to being far more educated than the average schmuck the only one bragging would be you. run circles around me that will be the day. most of what i post here doesnt come from technical bulletins but even if that were true it is still far more than you ever provide. another lie. some people never grow up. lol we are not talking about the positives of diesel over gasoline here we are talking the advantages of converting an existing truck over just buying the damn thing. now if you are talking about peope that converted a modern gas powered truck to a diesel then name three. i could name several none of whom would be people you know. big deal. ever driven one of these trucks long term if not its time to stifle yourself. once again max and as usual you have no clue. i you insist on remaining an asshole even during the holiday season have at it but i really dont have the time to waste on you. if you have something valid to offer or say i would be glad to continue but otherwise you will just be talking to yourself. you already wasted far more time than i figured you would much to my delight. and lets face it you wasted time defending your shitheaded notions with toml for some time as well. given the post count id guess you had a bit of time to waste defending your horseshit from a number of people. holiday or no you are still the same i know everything but have no experience i can actually claim idiot who arrived here some years ago. -- max everyone is entitled to his own opinion he is not entitled to his own facts. sen. daniel patrick moynihan of new york .

From : mac davis

on thu 27 dec 2007 211600 -0500 tom lawrence tlawrence5@earthlink.net wrote well given that i could count on one hand the number of times ive admitted in here to being far more educated than the average schmuck some of us average schmucks may take offense to that... ... but you know what i say - if they cant take a joke screw em i like robin williams version joke em if they cant take a fuck mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : beryl

maxipad well given that i could count on one hand the number of times ive admitted in here to being far more educated than the average schmuck the only one bragging would be you. bluffery then. and my acedemic background would shatter your sheltered world. i still like this exchange then you dont know enough to be commenting on my post. - maxi exactly. but i didnt know that. - beryl then why would you comment on my post - maxi it shows how you think. i would guess that teachers put far more effort into educating you than the average schmuck not that you wound up far more educated. .

From : max dodge

well given that i could count on one hand the number of times ive admitted in here to being far more educated than the average schmuck some of us average schmucks may take offense to that... ... but you know what i say - if they cant take a joke screw em thats why i rarely mention it... im just an average schmuck. its just that some below average schmucks seem to think they are above average and at times need to be reminded that even a history major knows that helium has weight. -- max everyone is entitled to his own opinion he is not entitled to his own facts. sen. daniel patrick moynihan of new york .

From : max dodge

maxipad well given that i could count on one hand the number of times ive admitted in here to being far more educated than the average schmuck the only one bragging would be you. bluffery then. and my acedemic background would shatter your sheltered world. in his case and from what ive read yours as well. the two of you couldnt put a reasonable associates degree together on the topic which you both profess to know more than any other human on the planet. i still like this exchange then you dont know enough to be commenting on my post. - maxi exactly. but i didnt know that. - beryl then why would you comment on my post - maxi it shows how you think. yeah i think. whereas you not knowing if you knew enough spoke anyway without thinking i would guess that teachers put far more effort into educating you than the average schmuck not that you wound up far more educated. i think this is a case where you dont know that you havent the ground to be standing on to take that stand. maybe if you got an education.... this should get fairly amusing within a day. -- max everyone is entitled to his own opinion he is not entitled to his own facts. sen. daniel patrick moynihan of new york .

From : beryl

maxipad maxipad well given that i could count on one hand the number of times ive admitted in here to being far more educated than the average schmuck the only one bragging would be you. bluffery then. and my acedemic background would shatter your sheltered world. in his case and from what ive read yours as well. the two of you couldnt put a reasonable associates degree together on the topic which you both profess to know more than any other human on the planet. i still like this exchange then you dont know enough to be commenting on my post. - maxi exactly. but i didnt know that. - beryl then why would you comment on my post - maxi it shows how you think. yeah i think. at a primitive level yes you do. whereas you not knowing if you knew enough spoke anyway thats how learning often works. nosey for example was once willing to ask why box b on the teeter totter weighed 60 lbs. and not 100 lbs. if nobody had bothered to ask i wouldnt have bothered to explain. where were you maxi i would guess that teachers put far more effort into educating you than the average schmuck not that you wound up far more educated. i think this is a case where you dont know that you havent the ground to be standing on to take that stand. maybe if you got an education.... this should get fairly amusing within a day. it already has. .

From : beryl

maxipad well given that i could count on one hand the number of times ive admitted in here to being far more educated than the average schmuck some of us average schmucks may take offense to that... ... but you know what i say - if they cant take a joke screw em thats why i rarely mention it... im just an average schmuck. its just that some below average schmucks seem to think they are above average and at times need to be reminded that even a history major knows that helium has weight. does it maybe earth has the weight and is attracted by the pull of helium. please define exactly what weight is. .

From : nunya

snip sadly you havent a clue. its not a lame insult tbone its the truth. my mechanical background would make you look silly and my acedemic background would shatter your sheltered world. snip -- max everyone is entitled to his own opinion he is not entitled to his own facts. sen. daniel patrick moynihan of new york this one is just too easy. if a person is going to brag about their academic accomplishments mybe they should learn to spell the word first... michael this is just too easy as well. if one is going to complain about anothers spelling maybe they should learn to spell maybe busted by the man. of course i didnt brag about being an academic either. i is just a hillbilly from da mountains of north georgia. spelling isnt near as important around here as football. michael .

From : nunya

snip sadly you havent a clue. its not a lame insult tbone its the truth. my mechanical background would make you look silly and my acedemic background would shatter your sheltered world. snip -- max everyone is entitled to his own opinion he is not entitled to his own facts. sen. daniel patrick moynihan of new york this one is just too easy. if a person is going to brag about their academic accomplishments mybe they should learn to spell the word first... michael the hiding behind the big dodge truck trouble maker... .

From : roy

snip sadly you havent a clue. its not a lame insult tbone its the truth. my mechanical background would make you look silly and my acedemic background would shatter your sheltered world. snip -- max everyone is entitled to his own opinion he is not entitled to his own facts. sen. daniel patrick moynihan of new york this one is just too easy. if a person is going to brag about their academic accomplishments mybe they should learn to spell the word first... michael this is just too easy as well. if one is going to complain about anothers spelling maybe they should learn to spell maybe .

From : nunya

all i did was state that a similar conversion was done by a neighbor with a ford truck. i wasnt arguing one way or the other just stating that they succesfully drove it. i also gave an estimate of how long it took me to add a second battery to my truck which happened to refute nunyas claim that it would require a half day to complete. i regret that you took that as an argument for doing the conversion. how are my statements of what i experienced arguing i dont have any bones to pick with you pun intended. in the past you have stated that i may carry a discussion too far a claim i cant refute. maybe im not the only one to carry a discussion too far. snip i am not saying that this job cant be done. i just think that unless a man was unemployed that his time could be better spent building something more unique. when i estimate a half day for the battery deal i am assuming that there will be at least one if not two trips to the parts store to make this happen. espcially if the donor truck was a wreck. some stuff will be bent maybe have a cable that was pinched and needs to be replaced. probably need to replace at least one of the battery cable ends if not both. going to at least have to go pick up the second battery. of course i would stop and get a cup of coffee on the way and when i got to the parts store the guys would have to ask how the project is going how is the ol lady etc. that blows an hour of my day. i run a business for a living. estimating time is the difference between making a good living and going looking for a job working for the man. if you underestimate your time on every job then you go broke. if you come out with a little extra on every job then you make a living. remove battery tray & cables from donor. without further damage 30 minutes trip to parts store to get everything else for job. 45 minutes straighten bent parts might as well paint the rusty tray 20 minutes fit and install in recipient truck 1 hour drink coffee and yabber with wife on phone about useless crap 15 minutes o.k. just shy of three hours now that i actually bothered to figure it. i might get it done in under two but maybe doesnt pay the light bill or the tax man or make payroll on friday. but dont think i am a playa hater here. i dont even hate the game. i have grand plans to shoehorn one of the hemis i have laying around the shop into my 72 dart some day. of course i know that some day will have to be when i have a month of spare time on my hands. more like a year because once i decide to get that deep into the dart the entire power train will have to be replaced. since i will be replacing the power train i might as well paint the thing while it is apart. heck since we are painting and wrenching it would be a shame to not redo the interior. i know how projects turn out. i ususally take a full year to restore a motorcycle. of course my projects are done as time permits around work and life. but tear down mock up tear down again paint and powder coat and final assembly does take some time. if i full timed it i would budget a month to restore just a bike. of course i do the full deal myself including paint work. michael .

From : tom lawrence

this is just too easy as well. if one is going to complain about anothers spelling maybe they should learn to spell maybe and of course if one is going to criticize anothers grammar one should know that the phrase anothers spelling is possessive and therefore requires an apostrophe. vbg but youre right... few things are funnier than watching someone who has to stoop to correcting someones grammar or spelling and then watch said person fall flat on their face by making a similar error. that gets the big old nelson from the simpsons point-and-laugh... hah-hah! .

From : mac davis

on wed 2 jan 2008 130904 -0500 roy roy@home.net wrote snip sadly you havent a clue. its not a lame insult tbone its the truth. my mechanical background would make you look silly and my acedemic background would shatter your sheltered world. snip -- max everyone is entitled to his own opinion he is not entitled to his own facts. sen. daniel patrick moynihan of new york this one is just too easy. if a person is going to brag about their academic accomplishments mybe they should learn to spell the word first... michael this is just too easy as well. if one is going to complain about anothers spelling maybe they should learn to spell maybe or buy a program that has spell check mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : roy

this is just too easy as well. if one is going to complain about anothers spelling maybe they should learn to spell maybe and of course if one is going to criticize anothers grammar one should know that the phrase anothers spelling is possessive and therefore requires an apostrophe. vbg possessive my ass!! i dont want it! im not being possessive at all you can have it. bfg .

From : max dodge

maybe i shoulda learned to type first. but i didnt. in the meantime you have what for degrees hey if you want to play i have a bigger dick get that lame cock out and swing it dickhead. -- max everyone is entitled to his own opinion he is not entitled to his own facts. sen. daniel patrick moynihan of new york snip sadly you havent a clue. its not a lame insult tbone its the truth. my mechanical background would make you look silly and my acedemic background would shatter your sheltered world. snip -- max everyone is entitled to his own opinion he is not entitled to his own facts. sen. daniel patrick moynihan of new york this one is just too easy. if a person is going to brag about their academic accomplishments mybe they should learn to spell the word first... michael the hiding behind the big dodge truck trouble maker... .

From : max dodge

busted by the man. of course i didnt brag about being an academic either. i is just a hillbilly from da mountains of north georgia. spelling isnt near as important around here as football. michael which may explain a number of things mike. -- max everyone is entitled to his own opinion he is not entitled to his own facts. sen. daniel patrick moynihan of new york .

From : nunya

snip i cant hardly wait to get all this decoration stuff put away. my garage is a fricken disaster area. hell i cant even see my reloading desk.. denny so move the reloading stuff inside the house proper. a mans gotta have priorities. at my house we can junk up any area except the reloading bench. poor housekeeping habits in this area can lead to problems. michael .

From : nunya

maybe i shoulda learned to type first. but i didnt. in the meantime you have what for degrees hey if you want to play i have a bigger dick get that lame cock out and swing it dickhead. -- max everyone is entitled to his own opinion he is not entitled to his own facts. sen. daniel patrick moynihan of new york snip with all the top posting lack of snipping the posts folks are responding to and general poor netiquitte i am a little confused. was this directed at me or someone else. all i have done is try to debate the topic from the op without letting feelings get in the way or getting personal with anyone. if this was directed at me then tell me how any degree other than maybe mechanical engineering would be relevant to this discussion. i am not going to stoop down to profane insults in an attempt to prove a level of education or the merits of any type of mechanical project. from my experience in school the above response hovers somewhere around the 7th grade playground level of education. michael .

From : denny

snip i cant hardly wait to get all this decoration stuff put away. my garage is a fricken disaster area. hell i cant even see my reloading desk.. denny so move the reloading stuff inside the house proper. a mans gotta have priorities. at my house we can junk up any area except the reloading bench. poor housekeeping habits in this area can lead to problems. michael id love to but my daughter and 4 yr old granddaughter are living with us for the time being. while the grandcritter is around my gun stuff is better off in my garage. not to worry its heated... vbg denny .

From : nunya

snip id love to but my daughter and 4 yr old granddaughter are living with us for the time being. while the grandcritter is around my gun stuff is better off in my garage. not to worry its heated... vbg denny mine actually lives in the basement which is temperature controlled also. i have a keyed entry door lock on the basement door just in case we have company with kids. i can lock everyone out of the basement for safety. michael p.s. here is my bench... www.coolclimbing.com/handloading1.htm .

From : ed h

all i did was state that a similar conversion was done by a neighbor with a ford truck. i wasnt arguing one way or the other just stating that they succesfully drove it. i also gave an estimate of how long it took me to add a second battery to my truck which happened to refute nunyas claim that it would require a half day to complete. i regret that you took that as an argument for doing the conversion. how are my statements of what i experienced arguing i dont have any bones to pick with you pun intended. in the past you have stated that i may carry a discussion too far a claim i cant refute. maybe im not the only one to carry a discussion too far. snip i am not saying that this job cant be done. i just think that unless a man was unemployed that his time could be better spent building something more unique. when i estimate a half day for the battery deal i am assuming that there will be at least one if not two trips to the parts store to make this happen. espcially if the donor truck was a wreck. some stuff will be bent maybe have a cable that was pinched and needs to be replaced. probably need to replace at least one of the battery cable ends if not both. going to at least have to go pick up the second battery. of course i would stop and get a cup of coffee on the way and when i got to the parts store the guys would have to ask how the project is going how is the ol lady etc. that blows an hour of my day. i run a business for a living. estimating time is the difference between making a good living and going looking for a job working for the man. if you underestimate your time on every job then you go broke. if you come out with a little extra on every job then you make a living. remove battery tray & cables from donor. without further damage 30 minutes trip to parts store to get everything else for job. 45 minutes straighten bent parts might as well paint the rusty tray 20 minutes fit and install in recipient truck 1 hour drink coffee and yabber with wife on phone about useless crap 15 minutes i know what you mean - thats how i work on my house. i can plan well for vehicle repairs though. maybe its because i like working on vehicles but dont enjoy working on my house that much but i havent had to go to the autoparts store more than once for any given repair in the last 5-8 years. however to change a simple faucet... o.k. just shy of three hours now that i actually bothered to figure it. i might get it done in under two but maybe doesnt pay the light bill or the tax man or make payroll on friday. but dont think i am a playa hater here. i dont even hate the game. i have grand plans to shoehorn one of the hemis i have laying around the shop into my 72 dart some day. of course i know that some day will have to be when i have a month of spare time on my hands. more like a year because once i decide to get that deep into the dart the entire power train will have to be replaced. since i will be replacing the power train i might as well paint the thing while it is apart. heck since we are painting and wrenching it would be a shame to not redo the interior. i know how projects turn out. i ususally take a full year to restore a motorcycle. of course my projects are done as time permits around work and life. but tear down mock up tear down again paint and powder coat and final assembly does take some time. if i full timed it i would budget a month to restore just a bike. of course i do the full deal myself including paint work. michael .

From : mac davis

on thu 3 jan 2008 173543 -0500 nunya nunya@nunya.net wrote snip id love to but my daughter and 4 yr old granddaughter are living with us for the time being. while the grandcritter is around my gun stuff is better off in my garage. not to worry its heated... vbg denny mine actually lives in the basement which is temperature controlled also. i have a keyed entry door lock on the basement door just in case we have company with kids. i can lock everyone out of the basement for safety. michael p.s. here is my bench... www.coolclimbing.com/handloading1.htm or yourself in right btdt... mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : denny

snip id love to but my daughter and 4 yr old granddaughter are living with us for the time being. while the grandcritter is around my gun stuff is better off in my garage. not to worry its heated... vbg denny mine actually lives in the basement which is temperature controlled also. i have a keyed entry door lock on the basement door just in case we have company with kids. i can lock everyone out of the basement for safety. michael p.s. here is my bench... www.coolclimbing.com/handloading1.htm looks like you can have alot of fun in your little corner..g most of my equipment is lee. seems to work good for me and its not real expensive. i shoot mostly handgun so have loaded all pistol ammo till now. i just got the dies for .223 and .220 swift. im sure there is a learning curve that im gonna go thru... denny .

From : denny

all i did was state that a similar conversion was done by a neighbor with a ford truck. i wasnt arguing one way or the other just stating that they succesfully drove it. i also gave an estimate of how long it took me to add a second battery to my truck which happened to refute nunyas claim that it would require a half day to complete. i regret that you took that as an argument for doing the conversion. how are my statements of what i experienced arguing i dont have any bones to pick with you pun intended. in the past you have stated that i may carry a discussion too far a claim i cant refute. maybe im not the only one to carry a discussion too far. snip i am not saying that this job cant be done. i just think that unless a man was unemployed that his time could be better spent building something more unique. when i estimate a half day for the battery deal i am assuming that there will be at least one if not two trips to the parts store to make this happen. espcially if the donor truck was a wreck. some stuff will be bent maybe have a cable that was pinched and needs to be replaced. probably need to replace at least one of the battery cable ends if not both. going to at least have to go pick up the second battery. of course i would stop and get a cup of coffee on the way and when i got to the parts store the guys would have to ask how the project is going how is the ol lady etc. that blows an hour of my day. i run a business for a living. estimating time is the difference between making a good living and going looking for a job working for the man. if you underestimate your time on every job then you go broke. if you come out with a little extra on every job then you make a living. remove battery tray & cables from donor. without further damage 30 minutes trip to parts store to get everything else for job. 45 minutes straighten bent parts might as well paint the rusty tray 20 minutes fit and install in recipient truck 1 hour drink coffee and yabber with wife on phone about useless crap 15 minutes i know what you mean - thats how i work on my house. i can plan well for vehicle repairs though. maybe its because i like working on vehicles but dont enjoy working on my house that much but i havent had to go to the autoparts store more than once for any given repair in the last 5-8 years. however to change a simple faucet... rule of my house...... all home repair projects need four trips to lowes to finish.... denny .

From : max dodge

i am not going to stoop down to profane insults in an attempt to prove a level of education or the merits of any type of mechanical project. from my experience in school the above response hovers somewhere around the 7th grade playground level of education. michael sorta like your 7th grade jab at my spelling. btw note that i quoted you that makes it easy to figure out to whom it was directed. -- max everyone is entitled to his own opinion he is not entitled to his own facts. sen. daniel patrick moynihan of new york maybe i shoulda learned to type first. but i didnt. in the meantime you have what for degrees hey if you want to play i have a bigger dick get that lame cock out and swing it dickhead. -- max everyone is entitled to his own opinion he is not entitled to his own facts. sen. daniel patrick moynihan of new york snip with all the top posting lack of snipping the posts folks are responding to and general poor netiquitte i am a little confused. was this directed at me or someone else. all i have done is try to debate the topic from the op without letting feelings get in the way or getting personal with anyone. if this was directed at me then tell me how any degree other than maybe mechanical engineering would be relevant to this discussion. .

From : nunya

on thu 3 jan 2008 173543 -0500 nunya nunya@nunya.net wrote snip or yourself in right btdt... mac please remove splinters before emailing that would be a good idea at times but i have a large hammer that i call the universal key when i get frustrated. michael .

From : nunya

snip looks like you can have alot of fun in your little corner..g most of my equipment is lee. seems to work good for me and its not real expensive. i shoot mostly handgun so have loaded all pistol ammo till now. i just got the dies for .223 and .220 swift. im sure there is a learning curve that im gonna go thru... denny denny i still have a lot of lee equipment. my first press and most of my early loading was done with their equipment. it does as good of a job as most until you start looking at higher production rates or shooting bench rest rifle competition where things start getting measured in the thousandths. aare you loading .223 for a turn bolt or a repeater 220 swift is one of my more favorite cartridges. michael .

From : mac davis

on fri 4 jan 2008 104221 -0500 nunya nunya@nunya.net wrote on thu 3 jan 2008 173543 -0500 nunya nunya@nunya.net wrote snip or yourself in right btdt... mac please remove splinters before emailing that would be a good idea at times but i have a large hammer that i call the universal key when i get frustrated. michael no i meant on purpose.. to escape grand kids honeydos etc... mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : nunya

snip that would be a good idea at times but i have a large hammer that i call the universal key when i get frustrated. michael no i meant on purpose.. to escape grand kids honeydos etc... mac my wife and i never were able to have kids so their is very seldom any children to hide from. at one point we thought this was a curse but we have in later years decided that not haveing to go through some of the things we have seen our friends go through makes the no children thing a blessing. i teach boyscouts thus i get to interact with kids but when it comes time to spend money on them or they cause trouble i get to hand them back to their parents. win/win for me. my wife is good about giving me enough time to be me and seldom hammers me with honeydos. so hiding from her is what work is for. once work is over i am happy to be home and in her company. she seldom messes with me when i go to the basement though. that is my kingdom and i get to rule over it. i wear the pants in my house! of course the ol lady washes them lays them out for me in the morning and tells me how to put them on... actually as long as i keep her harleys running well and take an occasional road trip with her she is the easiest to maintain woman i have ever met. life is good on the ponderosa. michael .

From : denny

snip looks like you can have alot of fun in your little corner..g most of my equipment is lee. seems to work good for me and its not real expensive. i shoot mostly handgun so have loaded all pistol ammo till now. i just got the dies for .223 and .220 swift. im sure there is a learning curve that im gonna go thru... denny denny i still have a lot of lee equipment. my first press and most of my early loading was done with their equipment. it does as good of a job as most until you start looking at higher production rates or shooting bench rest rifle competition where things start getting measured in the thousandths. as long as i can peg a groundhog out to about 300-350 yds im happy. aare you loading .223 for a turn bolt or a repeater 220 swift is one of my more favorite cartridges. michael the .223 will be for my ar15. most of my shooting with that is my three gun matches where 100yd will be about the longest shot. ill be shooting fmj only at this time. im gonna try varget in the swift to start out. well see how it goes and try something different if i have to. im shooting 55gr nosler out of a ruger 77 mk 2. what powder do you use denny .

From : roy

snip looks like you can have alot of fun in your little corner..g most of my equipment is lee. seems to work good for me and its not real expensive. i shoot mostly handgun so have loaded all pistol ammo till now. i just got the dies for .223 and .220 swift. im sure there is a learning curve that im gonna go thru... denny denny i still have a lot of lee equipment. my first press and most of my early loading was done with their equipment. it does as good of a job as most until you start looking at higher production rates or shooting bench rest rifle competition where things start getting measured in the thousandths. as long as i can peg a groundhog out to about 300-350 yds im happy. aare you loading .223 for a turn bolt or a repeater 220 swift is one of my more favorite cartridges. michael the .223 will be for my ar15. ah the dark side. ya gotta like those plastic weapons. roy .

From : denny

snip looks like you can have alot of fun in your little corner..g most of my equipment is lee. seems to work good for me and its not real expensive. i shoot mostly handgun so have loaded all pistol ammo till now. i just got the dies for .223 and .220 swift. im sure there is a learning curve that im gonna go thru... denny denny i still have a lot of lee equipment. my first press and most of my early loading was done with their equipment. it does as good of a job as most until you start looking at higher production rates or shooting bench rest rifle competition where things start getting measured in the thousandths. as long as i can peg a groundhog out to about 300-350 yds im happy. aare you loading .223 for a turn bolt or a repeater 220 swift is one of my more favorite cartridges. michael the .223 will be for my ar15. ah the dark side. ya gotta like those plastic weapons. roy and im really thinking of getting another one before the demos get elected. im guessing the next ban will make the clinton ban look like a piece of cake.. look at whats happening to the price of ammo and reloading supplies. if they cant ban the firearm theyll make it too expensive to shoot it. that should get a good arguement started.......... denny .

From : denny

hey!! hows your daughter doing i know she out shoots you. is she still at it we are fair weather shooters up here. we dont like to get our fingers cold...... g shes not bad with a pistol and will only get better if shed practice more. but she has a 4 yr old that takes up a bunch of her time. dont piss her off with an iron sighted rifle..... shes good... but i can still take her with a scope. that should get a good arguement started.......... yup it should. do you really think huckabuck has any real chance believe me you dont want mitty. my gut feeling is that obama charactor is gonna win it. i dont know what to believe. ive read that hes a muslim wont salute the flag ect. even at that hed have to be better than another clinton. im registered as a republican but i dont think any of them will make it. denny roy denny .

From : roy

snip looks like you can have alot of fun in your little corner..g most of my equipment is lee. seems to work good for me and its not real expensive. i shoot mostly handgun so have loaded all pistol ammo till now. i just got the dies for .223 and .220 swift. im sure there is a learning curve that im gonna go thru... denny denny i still have a lot of lee equipment. my first press and most of my early loading was done with their equipment. it does as good of a job as most until you start looking at higher production rates or shooting bench rest rifle competition where things start getting measured in the thousandths. as long as i can peg a groundhog out to about 300-350 yds im happy. aare you loading .223 for a turn bolt or a repeater 220 swift is one of my more favorite cartridges. michael the .223 will be for my ar15. ah the dark side. ya gotta like those plastic weapons. roy and im really thinking of getting another one before the demos get elected. im guessing the next ban will make the clinton ban look like a piece of cake.. thats one of the reasons i kept all but 2 of mine. look at whats happening to the price of ammo and reloading supplies. if they cant ban the firearm theyll make it too expensive to shoot it. i also brought along a couple of casess of american eagle with me for the black one. we both have our fl ccw permits a few hoops to jump through but pretty quick process. now im licensed in a very conservative and a very liberal state. who woulda thought. hey!! hows your daughter doing i know she out shoots you. is she still at it that should get a good arguement started.......... yup it should. do you really think huckabuck has any real chance believe me you dont want mitty. roy denny .

From : miles

denny wrote my gut feeling is that obama charactor is gonna win it. i dont know what to believe. ive read that hes a muslim wont salute the flag ect. even at that hed have to be better than another clinton. im registered as a republican but i dont think any of them will make it. better than clinton by a slim margin. edwards is even worse. the reps dont have anyone worth a damn. guess the vote for the best of the worst is on par with most elections. .

From : ed h

denny wrote my gut feeling is that obama charactor is gonna win it. i dont know what to believe. ive read that hes a muslim wont salute the flag ect. even at that hed have to be better than another clinton. im registered as a republican but i dont think any of them will make it. better than clinton by a slim margin. edwards is even worse. the reps dont have anyone worth a damn. guess the vote for the best of the worst is on par with most elections. sad but true. .

From : roy

hey!! hows your daughter doing i know she out shoots you. is she still at it we are fair weather shooters up here. we dont like to get our fingers cold...... g bunch of wimps! g shes not bad with a pistol and will only get better if shed practice more. but she has a 4 yr old that takes up a bunch of her time. dont piss her off with an iron sighted rifle..... shes good... but i can still take her with a scope. ya you can take her with a scope if shes useing iron sights. that should get a good arguement started.......... yup it should. do you really think huckabuck has any real chance believe me you dont want mitty. my gut feeling is that obama charactor is gonna win it. i dont know what to believe. ive read that hes a muslim wont salute the flag ect. even at that hed have to be better than another clinton. im registered as a republican but i dont think any of them will make it. i dont see obama doing it. although it would seem that folks want change and he has draped change all over himself. once they really start to peel away at obama i think you will see his support shift away somewhat. clinton will pick up the older vote in the states to come. her husband like him or hate him is real good at foreign relations we sorely need sombody to undo some of the mess gb has created. i think a lot of folks are sorta looking at two for the price of one that clinton brings. but who knows they all pretty much suck imo. i honestly dont see a repub pulling it off. no matter who wins. roy denny .

From : budd cochran

how do you like the ar-15 i remember the m-16a1 as being a sweet weapon as long as you knew its limitations and compensated for them. budd snip looks like you can have alot of fun in your little corner..g most of my equipment is lee. seems to work good for me and its not real expensive. i shoot mostly handgun so have loaded all pistol ammo till now. i just got the dies for .223 and .220 swift. im sure there is a learning curve that im gonna go thru... denny denny i still have a lot of lee equipment. my first press and most of my early loading was done with their equipment. it does as good of a job as most until you start looking at higher production rates or shooting bench rest rifle competition where things start getting measured in the thousandths. as long as i can peg a groundhog out to about 300-350 yds im happy. aare you loading .223 for a turn bolt or a repeater 220 swift is one of my more favorite cartridges. michael the .223 will be for my ar15. ah the dark side. ya gotta like those plastic weapons. roy and im really thinking of getting another one before the demos get elected. im guessing the next ban will make the clinton ban look like a piece of cake.. look at whats happening to the price of ammo and reloading supplies. if they cant ban the firearm theyll make it too expensive to shoot it. that should get a good arguement started.......... denny .

From : denny

how do you like the ar-15 i remember the m-16a1 as being a sweet weapon as long as you knew its limitations and compensated for them. budd to be truthfull its not my favorite rifle to shoot. i like the smell/feel of a oiled wood stock. i use it in my three gun competitions and for that purpose it does very well. light weight easy handling mag swaps are a breeze and no recoil to speak of. it gets the job done. what id really like to use sometime is my garand. now that would be fun but i know my time would suck in that stage. maybe if i could convince kim that i really needed an m1a...... and pigs fly... vbg denny .

From : budd cochran

how do you like the ar-15 i remember the m-16a1 as being a sweet weapon as long as you knew its limitations and compensated for them. budd to be truthfull its not my favorite rifle to shoot. i like the smell/feel of a oiled wood stock. i use it in my three gun competitions and for that purpose it does very well. light weight easy handling mag swaps are a breeze and no recoil to speak of. it gets the job done. what id really like to use sometime is my garand. now that would be fun but i know my time would suck in that stage. maybe if i could convince kim that i really needed an m1a...... and pigs fly... vbg denny i agree theres nothing like the feel and smell of a wood stock but the ar-15 / m/16 series were designed to be tougher than a war and to be honest put a lot of lead down range in a hurry but be reasonably accurate in the process. still if i had to choose a easy to handle light weight home defense weapon that could double for hunting medium sized game id give it a try. budd .

From : mac davis

on thu 17 jan 2008 051329 -0500 denny wddodge@woh.rr.com wrote how do you like the ar-15 i remember the m-16a1 as being a sweet weapon as long as you knew its limitations and compensated for them. budd to be truthfull its not my favorite rifle to shoot. i like the smell/feel of a oiled wood stock. i use it in my three gun competitions and for that purpose it does very well. light weight easy handling mag swaps are a breeze and no recoil to speak of. it gets the job done. what id really like to use sometime is my garand. now that would be fun but i know my time would suck in that stage. maybe if i could convince kim that i really needed an m1a...... and pigs fly... vbg denny btdt... m1a/m2 carbine was a fun thing to carry around but had no stopping power.. its downright embarrassing to hit someone with one and have him keep shooting back.. otoh the m-14a was a kick-ass weapon if you could carry it and the ammo..lol mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : budd cochran

and not get the thumb budd on thu 17 jan 2008 051329 -0500 denny wddodge@woh.rr.com wrote how do you like the ar-15 i remember the m-16a1 as being a sweet weapon as long as you knew its limitations and compensated for them. budd to be truthfull its not my favorite rifle to shoot. i like the smell/feel of a oiled wood stock. i use it in my three gun competitions and for that purpose it does very well. light weight easy handling mag swaps are a breeze and no recoil to speak of. it gets the job done. what id really like to use sometime is my garand. now that would be fun but i know my time would suck in that stage. maybe if i could convince kim that i really needed an m1a...... and pigs fly... vbg denny btdt... m1a/m2 carbine was a fun thing to carry around but had no stopping power.. its downright embarrassing to hit someone with one and have him keep shooting back.. otoh the m-14a was a kick-ass weapon if you could carry it and the ammo..lol mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : budd cochran

on wed 16 jan 2008 210523 -0700 budd cochran mr.establishment440@bresnan.net wrote how do you like the ar-15 i remember the m-16a1 as being a sweet weapon as long as you knew its limitations and compensated for them. budd yeah.. like throwing it at them when it jammed... the bad ol days of the first version.. mac please remove splinters before emailing friends that returned from nam told me about that and using the gun as a very effective club since the nylon stock was harder to break than a wooden stock. even well cared for and in clear weather shooting range conditions and denny you need to listen here my friend that forward assist knob can be literally a life saver. budd .

From : roy

on wed 16 jan 2008 210523 -0700 budd cochran mr.establishment440@bresnan.net wrote how do you like the ar-15 i remember the m-16a1 as being a sweet weapon as long as you knew its limitations and compensated for them. budd yeah.. like throwing it at them when it jammed... the bad ol days of the first version.. lost a couple of friends due to the first ones. it seemed that there was never a real effort to get them all out. it was a sort of replace when it failed. if you were able to. the new ones were no problem though. the bushmaster i have now is a fun to shoot thing. put about 250 rounds through it real quick one day with no incidents wanted to be sure. trying to find a range down here that is outside and 300+ yards long to go play a bit. roy mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : denny

on wed 16 jan 2008 210523 -0700 budd cochran mr.establishment440@bresnan.net wrote how do you like the ar-15 i remember the m-16a1 as being a sweet weapon as long as you knew its limitations and compensated for them. budd yeah.. like throwing it at them when it jammed... the bad ol days of the first version.. mac please remove splinters before emailing friends that returned from nam told me about that and using the gun as a very effective club since the nylon stock was harder to break than a wooden stock. even well cared for and in clear weather shooting range conditions and denny you need to listen here my friend that forward assist knob can be literally a life saver. i got a colt sp1. it aint got no forward assist knob.... g one of these days ill have to get a modern version. you still got my old addy shoot me an e-mail if you do... denny .

From : budd cochran

no to honest with the way i was being regarded about my beliefs i dropped many addresses and not just in this group. it hurt denny to be treated like that just for living according to my beliefs. but youre back in the book and ill catch up with ya tomorrow ok budd on wed 16 jan 2008 210523 -0700 budd cochran mr.establishment440@bresnan.net wrote how do you like the ar-15 i remember the m-16a1 as being a sweet weapon as long as you knew its limitations and compensated for them. budd yeah.. like throwing it at them when it jammed... the bad ol days of the first version.. mac please remove splinters before emailing friends that returned from nam told me about that and using the gun as a very effective club since the nylon stock was harder to break than a wooden stock. even well cared for and in clear weather shooting range conditions and denny you need to listen here my friend that forward assist knob can be literally a life saver. i got a colt sp1. it aint got no forward assist knob.... g one of these days ill have to get a modern version. you still got my old addy shoot me an e-mail if you do... denny .

From : budd cochran

of the system with some low speed 5 mph full left and full right turns in a parking lot. budd where ya been ya old fart we wuz worried about ya mike there is no manual at all. i just order one the other day so hopefully i can get one in a week. the resoivoir is not over filled. ill try flushing out the p.s system to see if it helps. ----== posted via feeds.com - unlimited-unrestricted-secure usenet ==---- http//www.feeds.com the #1 group service in the world! 120000+ groups ----= east and west-coast server farms - total privacy via encryption =---- . 222 341853 i6qdnzwagsekjg3anz2dnuvzsmnnz2d@bresnan.com denny tried your addy in the post but it failed. email me back on mine as it works and ill get your good one. budd on wed 16 jan 2008 210523 -0700 budd cochran mr.establishment440@bresnan.net wrote how do you like the ar-15 i remember the m-16a1 as being a sweet weapon as long as you knew its limitations and compensated for them. budd yeah.. like throwing it at them when it jammed... the bad ol days of the first version.. mac please remove splinters before emailing friends that returned from nam told me about that and using the gun as a very effective club since the nylon stock was harder to break than a wooden stock. even well cared for and in clear weather shooting range conditions and denny you need to listen here my friend that forward assist knob can be literally a life saver. i got a colt sp1. it aint got no forward assist knob.... g one of these days ill have to get a modern version. you still got my old addy shoot me an e-mail if you do... denny .

From : budd cochran

on thu 17 jan 2008 135806 -0500 roy roy@fhome.net wrote on wed 16 jan 2008 210523 -0700 budd cochran mr.establishment440@bresnan.net wrote how do you like the ar-15 i remember the m-16a1 as being a sweet weapon as long as you knew its limitations and compensated for them. budd yeah.. like throwing it at them when it jammed... the bad ol days of the first version.. lost a couple of friends due to the first ones. it seemed that there was never a real effort to get them all out. it was a sort of replace when it failed. if you were able to. the new ones were no problem though. the bushmaster i have now is a fun to shoot thing. put about 250 rounds through it real quick one day with no incidents wanted to be sure. trying to find a range down here that is outside and 300+ yards long to go play a bit. roy they took our m-14s in 66 and gave us the first version of the plastic toy.. beta testing in the boonies thank you mcnamara.. if you could get more that 2 or 3 rounds without a jam you were very lucky.. we had to carry cleaning rods to jam down the barrel to get the expended brass out of the chamber.. from what i heard they re-worked the buffer and slowed down the rate of fire on the later ones and they worked ok until they tried then in iran.. *g* my kid says that they have another position on the selector switch now.. burst.. i guess it fires 3 rounds every time you fire mac please remove splinters before emailing yep three round bursts because they discovered too many young people cant count 650 numbers a minute. ... but then neither can i. actually it was found that the full auto rock and roll! wastes ammo. duh! theyve also made the barrel heavier to cut down on heat warpage due to high rates of fire and changed the twist to give the bullet more stability. it no longer turns sideways on contact with skin or tissue paper. budd .

From : mac davis

on thu 17 jan 2008 135806 -0500 roy roy@fhome.net wrote on wed 16 jan 2008 210523 -0700 budd cochran mr.establishment440@bresnan.net wrote how do you like the ar-15 i remember the m-16a1 as being a sweet weapon as long as you knew its limitations and compensated for them. budd yeah.. like throwing it at them when it jammed... the bad ol days of the first version.. lost a couple of friends due to the first ones. it seemed that there was never a real effort to get them all out. it was a sort of replace when it failed. if you were able to. the new ones were no problem though. the bushmaster i have now is a fun to shoot thing. put about 250 rounds through it real quick one day with no incidents wanted to be sure. trying to find a range down here that is outside and 300+ yards long to go play a bit. roy they took our m-14s in 66 and gave us the first version of the plastic toy.. beta testing in the boonies thank you mcnamara.. if you could get more that 2 or 3 rounds without a jam you were very lucky.. we had to carry cleaning rods to jam down the barrel to get the expended brass out of the chamber.. from what i heard they re-worked the buffer and slowed down the rate of fire on the later ones and they worked ok until they tried then in iran.. *g* my kid says that they have another position on the selector switch now.. burst.. i guess it fires 3 rounds every time you fire mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : nunya

on thu 17 jan 2008 135806 -0500 roy roy@fhome.net wrote snip they took our m-14s in 66 and gave us the first version of the plastic toy.. beta testing in the boonies thank you mcnamara.. if you could get more that 2 or 3 rounds without a jam you were very lucky.. we had to carry cleaning rods to jam down the barrel to get the expended brass out of the chamber.. from what i heard they re-worked the buffer and slowed down the rate of fire on the later ones and they worked ok until they tried then in iran.. *g* my kid says that they have another position on the selector switch now.. burst.. i guess it fires 3 rounds every time you fire mac the real issues with the original ar15/m16 in the field were two fold. they were designed to have chrome lined chambers and a specific powder. between the acceptance of the weapon after initial trials and issue to the field the army bean counters determined they could save a lot of money by skipping the chrome lining on the chambers and putting the powder contract up for bids. thus the rifles hit the field with a dirtier burning powder than they were designed for and a chamber that was sticky due to the lack of chrome. this turned a reasonable weapon into a very fancy single shot. michael .

From : mac davis

on fri 18 jan 2008 093037 -0500 nunya nunya@nunya.net wrote the real issues with the original ar15/m16 in the field were two fold. they were designed to have chrome lined chambers and a specific powder. between the acceptance of the weapon after initial trials and issue to the field the army bean counters determined they could save a lot of money by skipping the chrome lining on the chambers and putting the powder contract up for bids. thus the rifles hit the field with a dirtier burning powder than they were designed for and a chamber that was sticky due to the lack of chrome. this turned a reasonable weapon into a very fancy single shot. michael ok that rings a distant bell.. something about the next generation having chrome buffer group or something like that colt peacemaker the original point and click interface mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : mac davis

on fri 18 jan 2008 082203 -0700 budd cochran mr.establishment440@bresnan.net wrote yep three round bursts because they discovered too many young people cant count 650 numbers a minute. ... but then neither can i. actually it was found that the full auto rock and roll! wastes ammo. duh! theyve also made the barrel heavier to cut down on heat warpage due to high rates of fire and changed the twist to give the bullet more stability. it no longer turns sideways on contact with skin or tissue paper. budd i remember being trained to fire 2 or 3 round bursts on the m-14a and m-60... that went all to hell when the shit started though.. stability is a good thing.. damn tumbling 22 mag rounds... they used to call me up with the 60 when folks were behind bamboo.. 16s would deflect all over the place but that 7.63 round would penetrate just fine.. of course so would an ak round.. mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : budd cochran

on fri 18 jan 2008 082203 -0700 budd cochran mr.establishment440@bresnan.net wrote yep three round bursts because they discovered too many young people cant count 650 numbers a minute. ... but then neither can i. actually it was found that the full auto rock and roll! wastes ammo. duh! theyve also made the barrel heavier to cut down on heat warpage due to high rates of fire and changed the twist to give the bullet more stability. it no longer turns sideways on contact with skin or tissue paper. budd i remember being trained to fire 2 or 3 round bursts on the m-14a and m-60... that went all to hell when the shit started though.. of course it did shooting on a range or even the infiltration course is a whole lot less scary that the sounds of lead bees zipping past your ears or nipping at your government issued battle tuxedo. and even more scary is when you hear that sound while fishing your favorite stream or hunting rabbits and wearing blaze orange. stability is a good thing.. damn tumbling 22 mag rounds... they used to call me up with the 60 when folks were behind bamboo.. 16s would deflect all over the place but that 7.63 round would penetrate just fine.. of course so would an ak round.. mac please remove splinters before emailing bamboo is tuff stuff any way. all the silicones absorbed makes some able to be sharpened enough to cut rope. i like firing the 60. the fun part was when the instructor at fort carson claimed you couldnt fire accurately from the hip ... then i took out five silhouettes at 100 meters from the john wayne position. budd .

From : denny

lol yea except for the bullshit time estimates. the problem is that not everyone else has a heated and air conditioned 5 bay shop with multiple lifts and tools and equipment that would probably rival some small dealerships all to themselves. it gets much easier when you have the space and equipment to perform this level of work. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tbone im just curious. what do you do for fun other than to argue in groups you have to do something for fun sometimes.. denny .