Ford is nervous

From : george orwell

Q: autoblog comments http//snipurl.com/1jdu5 ford sold 55000 f series last month. gm sold 44000 and 12000 and dodge sold 36000. why does ford feel sooooo threatened by toyota to routinely attack it tundra sales were 15000 for april. doesnt ford know that the more it puts out commercials attacking a distant 4th place the more credibility it gives the tundra i mean if the 2007 f150 is superior to the tundra then let the people decide. the only reason a number one attacks a number 4 is if they feel inferior. also tundra can only wants to sell 200000 this year. ford as the king of trucks look at yourself and improve not dis others. unless you are afraid. ========== never underestimate the competition specially if it comes from the east. ford did it when they had the sales king aka taurus http//snipurl.com/adiostaurus and look what happened... ========== all ford does is talk about others. pathetic. they just whine. invest in the 4.6 and 5.4 first rather than on commercials. i am a chevy guy and i hope silverado puts the f-series to pasture. ========== dodge ram for the young stud chevy silverado for the middleaged man gmc sierra for the middleaged professional ford f-series = old mans truck toyota tundra for the educated and demanding person ========== rising sun http//snipurl.com/1jdu0 .

Replies:

From : perfectreign

i have a problem with my f250 starting cold.it takes about 4 ignitions turnswhile pumping gas pedalto get it going in the morning.i hate it!!!.could somebody please help me with this. call jd at 510 432 5986.im in san jose. thank u try a ford group .

From : nathan w collier

tivo rules! g isnt that the truth! i wouldnt watch tv without it. -- nathan in montana http//concealedcarryforum.com http//1911talk.com http//glockcarry.com .

From : snoman

gentlemen i am happily subscribed to the chevy truck groups. i care not a wit what ford dodge or toyota did or does with or to their trucks. please refrain from cross-posting to the chevy truck groups. thanks regards jr i think the $2b lawsuit is nothing more than to catch fords attention and attempt to force ford to honor existing engine contracts. from what ive read it is based on navistars opinion that ford is moving forward with plans to design and build their own diesel engine rather than continue to purchase them from navistar. apparently there is a contract clause that prohibits ford from doing so until after 2012. it will get tanglefooted because i am sure that ford being solely dependent on navistar insisted on having certain performance related obligations imposed on navistar as well. certainly its an attention-getter. but in the corporate world frivolous lawsuits arent the method of operation. clearly again navistar feels its got good ground to stand on for the dollar figure. -- max join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about. there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author the whole situation is a big mess and interconnected. ford claims that the reason they were witholding payments was because navistar was in breach of *their* contractual obligation to absorb some of the warranty repair costs associated with the 6.0l engine. precisely. thus the claim that navistar has nothing and the suit will fall apart is a bit short sighted. if it were that easy to come to a decision certainly navistar and its lawyers would not have filed papers to begin with. what signifies this action as solidly based and a huge threat to ford is the dollar amount. a supplier such as navistar doesnt bite the hand that feeds it simply because it seems like the thing to do. navistars reputation and financial status may well be on the line here and they undoubtedly feel its worth taking action. the real point is ford is on shakey ground to begin with now a $2b lawsuit will at very least sap their cash reserves let alone the effects of an adverse judgement. i think the $2b lawsuit is nothing more than to catch fords attention and attempt to force ford to honor existing engine contracts. from what ive read it is based on navistars opinion that ford is moving forward with plans to design and build their own diesel engine rather than continue to purchase them from navistar. apparently there is a contract clause that prohibits ford from doing so until after 2012. it will get tanglefooted because i am sure that ford being solely dependent on navistar insisted on having certain performance related obligations imposed on navistar as well. eisboch .

From : tbone

i am well aware of what they are suing for. the question is who actually breached the contract. if there is a question as you state then its not as cut and dried as you previously claimed. when ford bought the engines they agreed to pay for them. ford did not follow through on this properly. and when navistar signed the contract they agreed to provide reliable engines to ford and they also appear not to have done so. exactly so its not like you claimed at all in your previous post. unless navistar can somehow prove this and i doubt that they can ford still has a good case. afaik ford didnt stop paying untill navistar stopped fixing them. navistar certainly should be able to prove it given that they likely had a ford on site to figure out the warranty problems. i doubt very much that ford was restricted on when it could begin design of a new engine only on implementation on specific vehicles. as for replacement ford could simply claim that they were looking to replace them ahead of schedule due to the excessive failure rates of the navistar engines and the damage it was causing to sales and their reputation. navistar seems to feel that ford was restricted in its timetable. im certain ford will claim exactly what you say. however if the contract contains a clause prohibiting engine development then its open to interpretation. and with the excessive failure rate could you blame them navistar would have to prove that their engines were everything that they promised and as said before i doubt that they can. not at all. ford certainly will do what it feels it has to in order to protect itself. problem is what will the contract dictate as to navistar they must have something or the dollar figure wouldnt be that high. while a diesel option helped to make them a top contender it was not the navistar name just the engine type along with the strength and durability of the vehicles for the price. if it was just the engine then dodge should be no 1 by a wide margine as the cummins is simply better than the rest so far and again by a wide margine. navistars name is all over the thing so navistar has a vested interest in keeping their name clear. the name is long recognized as big in the heavy equipment sector. as such fords rep isnt the only thing that made the f250/350 a popular product. ford staked its sales on the psd reputation as built on the t444e. i agree that ford has staked some of its sales on the psd but it takes more than just an engine to get the sales or as i said before dodge would be #1 in the medium duty p/us. much as you and i know it many people prefer a v8 or simply dont know enough to know which engine is better. sure it would and that is the reason that ford is looking to remove them 2 years ahead of schedule but again while the engine can stop sales if it is a pos or thought of as one it takes more than just a good engine to get them. right..... hence the lawsuit by navistar since they depend on their name and rep to promote engines not just trucks. i doubt it. they will just appeal it as will navistar and this will go on for years. exactly.... all the while taking a hit on the legal fees until its settled. not yet but as we have seen toyota looks toward the future unlike the american ones. if there is money to be made there that is where they will go. last i heard toyota wasnt yet covering their investment on the new plant in texas. dont bet on that. even if navistar happens to win it is a one shot deal and then its over not to mention the appeals that could drag it out for years. every truck that toyota happens to sell is a loss for one of the big three and since most of their profits come from their truck and suv sales it is more significant than you might imagine. then in order to reclaim those sales they have to do research to see why they lost them to toyota possibly make design changes to re-attract those customers and at a minimum wage an advertising war to show how they are better than toyota. when you add all this up the cost are huge and well exceed just the cost of the sale and this happens every year. of course toyota will see this and do the same thing so on it goes. btw you might want to use a different term than the big three since iirc toyota is now #2 and soon to be #1 if not there already. what you arent seeing is that a company can scale back on expenditure to accomodate a market shift. in a direct loss such as the lawsuit would bring its a drain without any means to compensate for the loss. as such when comparing the impact of the tundra to fords finacial future versus that of a $2billion lawsuit i think the lawsuit has more potential impact without question. then you would be mistaken. see above. market shift and legal loss are totally different in the type of loss incurred. -- max join www.devilbrad.com and find

From : perfectreign

on mon 07 may 2007 213220 +0000 jr rebooted the etch-a-sketch and scribbled snip ford being solely dependent on navistar insisted on having certain performance related obligations imposed on navistar as well. i am happily subscribed to the chevy truck groups. i care not a wit what ford dodge or toyota did or does with or to their trucks. please refrain from cross-posting to the chevy truck groups. thanks regards jr ....then dont read posts with the term ford is nervous. oh and please stop top posting. though you may be using an inferior reader on an inferior operating system you can at least attempt to be polite and bottom post. one more thing - two dashes with a space afterwards will work better than a commma for allowing readers - even in wintendo - to strip your signature properly. hth! hand -- k .

From : max dodge

you know i wouldnt be suprised if toyota hasnt been talking to navistar hoping to get them to place either the 6.4 or a newer engine in the tundra if they break off with ford. that would make sense for a number of reasons. only argument against that would be the fact that isuzu is the worlds leader in automotive diesels. -- max join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about. there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author on mon 07 may 2007 051432 +0000 max dodge rebooted the etch-a-sketch and scribbled the whole situation is a big mess and interconnected. ford claims that the reason they were witholding payments was because navistar was in breach of *their* contractual obligation to absorb some of the warranty repair costs associated with the 6.0l engine. precisely. thus the claim that navistar has nothing and the suit will fall apart is a bit short sighted. if it were that easy to come to a decision certainly navistar and its lawyers would not have filed papers to begin with. what signifies this action as solidly based and a huge threat to ford is the dollar amount. a supplier such as navistar doesnt bite the hand that feeds it simply because it seems like the thing to do. navistars reputation and financial status may well be on the line here and they undoubtedly feel its worth taking action. the real point is ford is on shakey ground to begin with now a $2b lawsuit will at very least sap their cash reserves let alone the effects of an adverse judgement. next point is toyota isnt the threat to domestic truck sales that was foreseen mostly because of the recent jump in fuel costs. however toyota has a habit of aiming at the top. currently the top 1/2 ton pickup is the f150. so far toyota hasnt put a serious dent in those sales. you know i wouldnt be suprised if toyota hasnt been talking to navistar hoping to get them to place either the 6.4 or a newer engine in the tundra if they break off with ford. -- k .

From : max dodge

sir please refrain from opening posts and threads you care not a wit about it makes your life easier. -- max join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about. there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author gentlemen i am happily subscribed to the chevy truck groups. i care not a wit what ford dodge or toyota did or does with or to their trucks. please refrain from cross-posting to the chevy truck groups. thanks regards jr i think the $2b lawsuit is nothing more than to catch fords attention and attempt to force ford to honor existing engine contracts. from what ive read it is based on navistars opinion that ford is moving forward with plans to design and build their own diesel engine rather than continue to purchase them from navistar. apparently there is a contract clause that prohibits ford from doing so until after 2012. it will get tanglefooted because i am sure that ford being solely dependent on navistar insisted on having certain performance related obligations imposed on navistar as well. certainly its an attention-getter. but in the corporate world frivolous lawsuits arent the method of operation. clearly again navistar feels its got good ground to stand on for the dollar figure. -- max join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about. there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author the whole situation is a big mess and interconnected. ford claims that the reason they were witholding payments was because navistar was in breach of *their* contractual obligation to absorb some of the warranty repair costs associated with the 6.0l engine. precisely. thus the claim that navistar has nothing and the suit will fall apart is a bit short sighted. if it were that easy to come to a decision certainly navistar and its lawyers would not have filed papers to begin with. what signifies this action as solidly based and a huge threat to ford is the dollar amount. a supplier such as navistar doesnt bite the hand that feeds it simply because it seems like the thing to do. navistars reputation and financial status may well be on the line here and they undoubtedly feel its worth taking action. the real point is ford is on shakey ground to begin with now a $2b lawsuit will at very least sap their cash reserves let alone the effects of an adverse judgement. i think the $2b lawsuit is nothing more than to catch fords attention and attempt to force ford to honor existing engine contracts. from what ive read it is based on navistars opinion that ford is moving forward with plans to design and build their own diesel engine rather than continue to purchase them from navistar. apparently there is a contract clause that prohibits ford from doing so until after 2012. it will get tanglefooted because i am sure that ford being solely dependent on navistar insisted on having certain performance related obligations imposed on navistar as well. eisboch .

From : steve barker

i cant imagine two things 1. a person watching commercials 2. a person basing a vehicle decision on safety ratings. what a bogus reason to buy a particular vehicle. so i agree ford is wasting their time and money aiming the commercials at safety ratings. after all broadside either the f-150 or the tyota with a semi and theyre both going to be junk and the driver dead. -- steve barker george orwell use-author-supplied-address-header@127.1 wrote in autoblog comments http//snipurl.com/1jdu5 ford sold 55000 f series last month. gm sold 44000 and 12000 and dodge sold 36000. why does ford feel sooooo threatened by toyota to routinely attack it tundra sales were 15000 for april. doesnt ford know that the more it puts out commercials attacking a distant 4th place the more credibility it gives the tundra i mean if the 2007 f150 is superior to the tundra then let the people decide. the only reason a number one attacks a number 4 is if they feel inferior. also tundra can only wants to sell 200000 this year. ford as the king of trucks look at yourself and improve not dis others. unless you are afraid. ========== never underestimate the competition specially if it comes from the east. ford did it when they had the sales king aka taurus http//snipurl.com/adiostaurus and look what happened... ========== all ford does is talk about others. pathetic. they just whine. invest in the 4.6 and 5.4 first rather than on commercials. i am a chevy guy and i hope silverado puts the f-series to pasture. ========== dodge ram for the young stud chevy silverado for the middleaged man gmc sierra for the middleaged professional ford f-series = old mans truck toyota tundra for the educated and demanding person ========== rising sun http//snipurl.com/1jdu0 .

From : geekboy

george orwell use-author-supplied-address-header@127.1 wrote in autoblog comments http//snipurl.com/1jdu5 ford sold 55000 f series last month. gm sold 44000 and 12000 and dodge sold 36000. why does ford feel sooooo threatened by toyota to routinely attack it tundra sales were 15000 for april. doesnt ford know that the more it puts out commercials attacking a distant 4th place the more credibility it gives the tundra i mean if the 2007 f150 is superior to the tundra then let the people decide. the only reason a number one attacks a number 4 is if they feel inferior. also tundra can only wants to sell 200000 this year. ford as the king of trucks look at yourself and improve not dis others. unless you are afraid. so then toyota should stop their advertising ========== never underestimate the competition specially if it comes from the east. ford did it when they had the sales king aka taurus http//snipurl.com/adiostaurus and look what happened... ========== all ford does is talk about others. pathetic. they just whine. invest in the 4.6 and 5.4 first rather than on commercials. i am a chevy guy and i hope silverado puts the f-series to pasture. ========== dodge ram for the young stud chevy silverado for the middleaged man gmc sierra for the middleaged professional ford f-series = old mans truck toyota tundra for the educated and demanding person ========== rising sun http//snipurl.com/1jdu0 .

From : jr

thank you eisboch. gentlemen i am happily subscribed to the chevy truck groups. i care not a wit what ford dodge or toyota did or does with or to their trucks. please refrain from cross-posting to the chevy truck groups. thanks regards jr sorry about that. as one who also is occasionally annoyed by crossposting i should know better. i simply didnt read the headers. eisboch .

From : jr

i dont read the posts with the term ford is nervous. however i do have to mark them as read or delete them to make them disappear. as a self appointed sophisticate of usenet you should well know that top or bottom posting is up to the individual. there is no convention only preference. regards coma jr on mon 07 may 2007 213220 +0000 jr rebooted the etch-a-sketch and scribbled snip ford being solely dependent on navistar insisted on having certain performance related obligations imposed on navistar as well. i am happily subscribed to the chevy truck groups. i care not a wit what ford dodge or toyota did or does with or to their trucks. please refrain from cross-posting to the chevy truck groups. thanks regards jr ...then dont read posts with the term ford is nervous. oh and please stop top posting. though you may be using an inferior reader on an inferior operating system you can at least attempt to be polite and bottom post. one more thing - two dashes with a space afterwards will work better than a commma for allowing readers - even in wintendo - to strip your signature properly. hth! hand -- k .

From : beryl

jr wrote i dont read the posts with the term ford is nervous. however i do have to mark them as read or delete them to make them disappear. each post needs it i can mark a thread ignore thread and its done. as a self appointed sophisticate of usenet you should well know that top or bottom posting is up to the individual. there is no convention only preference. see 2.3 why should i place my response below the quoted text http//www.netmeister.org//learn2quote.html -- make friends with a few animals. then you will become a cheerful man once more and nothing will be able to trouble you. -- albert einstein .

From : max dodge

i dont read the posts with the term ford is nervous. but... you had to read it to reply to it here........ however i do have to mark them as read or delete them to make them disappear. always amazes me how fucking lazy people get...... to the point of complaining that an index finger tapping a button lightly a couple of times is an effort worth whining to the vast masses in a manner that rivals that of paris hilton complaining about jail time. perhaps that is just a flaw of mine... being born prior to the popularity of microwave ovens let alone the internet. if it takes only a fingers worth of effort..... shut the fuck up and do it!!! -- max join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about. there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author i dont read the posts with the term ford is nervous. however i do have to mark them as read or delete them to make them disappear. as a self appointed sophisticate of usenet you should well know that top or bottom posting is up to the individual. there is no convention only preference. regards coma jr on mon 07 may 2007 213220 +0000 jr rebooted the etch-a-sketch and scribbled snip ford being solely dependent on navistar insisted on having certain performance related obligations imposed on navistar as well. i am happily subscribed to the chevy truck groups. i care not a wit what ford dodge or toyota did or does with or to their trucks. please refrain from cross-posting to the chevy truck groups. thanks regards jr ...then dont read posts with the term ford is nervous. oh and please stop top posting. though you may be using an inferior reader on an inferior operating system you can at least attempt to be polite and bottom post. one more thing - two dashes with a space afterwards will work better than a commma for allowing readers - even in wintendo - to strip your signature properly. hth! hand -- k .

From : perfectreign

on wed 09 may 2007 042314 +0000 max dodge rebooted the etch-a-sketch and scribbled i dont read the posts with the term ford is nervous. but... you had to read it to reply to it here........ however i do have to mark them as read or delete them to make them disappear. always amazes me how fucking lazy people get...... to the point of complaining that an index finger tapping a button lightly a couple of times is an effort worth whining to the vast masses in a manner that rivals that of paris hilton complaining about jail time. perhaps that is just a flaw of mine... being born prior to the popularity of microwave ovens let alone the internet. if it takes only a fingers worth of effort..... shut the fuck up and do it!!! seriously. if you have a decent nr pan x 40-tude thunderbird knode... you can configure the group to auto-mark as read when exiting. -- k .

From : roger rabbid

on mon 07 may 2007 133247 gmt snoman admin@snoman.com wrote on mon 07 may 2007 123622 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote i went to ih training school last summer. they claimed then that the 6.0 is being phazed out for the problems they have had with it. they also said they would be replacing the 6.0 with a v6 diesel which they have been stuffing under the cab of those new cabovers theyre building and also rebaging for ford. certainly its an attention-getter. but in the corporate world frivolous lawsuits arent the method of operation. clearly again navistar feels its got good ground to stand on for the dollar figure. i am not sure who is in the right here. ih used to make some of the finest deisels out there and the 7.3 was great motor but the 6.0 the only engine ih ever made that was worth its grit was the dt466 and dt530. the dt570 just recently came out and wasnt without its own share of problems. ive relplaced dozens of egr coolers on them. the 6.9 was a boat anchor and the 7.3 wasnt much better except it has a turbo. all v configuration diesels are junk... take note of the fact that over the road big trucks use inline engines and not v8s. caused ford a lot of grief and tarnished their reputation. they both a little over two years ago i was employed by ford then they sold the truck leasing division i was employed with and left all of us high and dry and sold out to another truck leasing company. my retirement funds went out the window with the sale of the leasing company. i hope ford motors falls off the face of the planet and is buried under a heap of its own overrated cheap ass trucks. have issues that are going to take some time to sort out in court and in the mean time ford saves so working cash while this is being resolved. the 6.0 should have never been made i think. the 6.0 is an injector eating boat mooring. ----------------- thesnoman.com .

From : roger rabbid

on mon 7 may 2007 122535 -0400 eisboch nothere@nowhere.com wrote if it were that easy to come to a decision certainly navistar and its lawyers would not have filed papers to begin with. sure they would have. if they didnt they would basically be admitting that they were supplying ford with a defective engine and that would damage their reputation even worse then it already is. you cant put a price on that. as i understand the situation the vast majority of the 6.0l problems have nothing to do with navistars basic engine. its the ford specified modifications including the variable vane turbo that is crashing. ford may have made some adjustments to the software or hardware that controls the vgt. jacking around with only effects the performance of the engine. the variable geometry part of the turbo isnt all that complicated since all they are doing is varing the amount of boost it can supply to the intake so it doesnt overcome the flow of exhaust from the egr side. its no more complicated than opening or closing the vents on your dashboard to restrict the flow of air out of them. ive seen these engines come into my shop for a routine service and leave the shop misfiring. bad injectors have been a chronic problem with the engine. the navistar version of the engine has been around for a while and is a non-event engine meaning no significant problems. the engine started showing up in fords almost as fast as they cooled off the first block casting for the first engines. eisboch .

From : roy

on mon 07 may 2007 133247 gmt snoman admin@snoman.com wrote on mon 07 may 2007 123622 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote all v configuration diesels are junk... take note of the fact that over the road big trucks use inline engines and not v8s. that would be a incorrect statement imo. perhaps in the truck/automotive application there have been a few problem. the v design on diesels has been used many years with success. .

From : roger rabbid

on fri 11 may 2007 065101 -0400 roy roy@fhome.net wrote on mon 07 may 2007 133247 gmt snoman admin@snoman.com wrote on mon 07 may 2007 123622 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote all v configuration diesels are junk... take note of the fact that over the road big trucks use inline engines and not v8s. that would be a incorrect statement imo. perhaps in the truck/automotive application there have been a few problem. the v design on diesels has been used many years with success. 6.5 gm.. junk. 6.9 navi/ford.. junk. 7.3 navi/ford a better engine but still overrated in its function.. carry a few spare cans of starting fluid for those cold months.. theyre cantancuous by their own nature for having to rely on glowplugs. the duramax not to be confused with the inline 6 isuzu engine now being called a duramax in gm medium duty trucks is proving that it also has an appetite for glowplugs and has been cursed with overheating problems. i dont know enough about the duramax to make all that many comments about it except for experience of a few friends and my brothers oldest son who owned a gmc that gmc brought back from him after his duramax decided to suck the tips out of the glowplugs. the 6.5 chevy/gmc was the biggest pos of them all and nothing more than a converted olds even in its latest form and after gm convinced the public that it was a diesel from the ground up. they still plugged the distributor hole with a leaky rubber plug and never removed the casting for the fuel pump mount... its another part of dismal automotive history right up there with the vega and corvair. personally if i had the need for a pickup powered with a diesel and the option id go with an inline 6 cat powered pickup. nothing runs like a cat. the 3208 cat.. junk. ----== posted via feeds.com - unlimited-unrestricted-secure usenet ==---- http//www.feeds.com the #1 group service in the world! 120000+ groups ----= east and west-coast server farms - total privacy via encryption =---- .

From : max dodge

personally if i had the need for a pickup powered with a diesel and the option id go with an inline 6 cat powered pickup. nothing runs like a cat. except a cummins. sad part is cat doesnt have an inline six small enough to fit a pickup. the gm 6.2/6.5 was a new diesel and was not a reworked olds casting. the olds casting was capable of 5.7l/350cid. despite this the 6.2/6.5 was junk having massive head problems. the 7.3/t444 navistar was actually a decent engine but not on the level of cat or cummins or even the dt466. the duramax 6.6 v8 has aluminum heads which should be a major factor in deciding against buying it. the cat 3208 has long been noted as a disposable diesel. -- max join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about. there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author on fri 11 may 2007 065101 -0400 roy roy@fhome.net wrote on mon 07 may 2007 133247 gmt snoman admin@snoman.com wrote on mon 07 may 2007 123622 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote all v configuration diesels are junk... take note of the fact that over the road big trucks use inline engines and not v8s. that would be a incorrect statement imo. perhaps in the truck/automotive application there have been a few problem. the v design on diesels has been used many years with success. 6.5 gm.. junk. 6.9 navi/ford.. junk. 7.3 navi/ford a better engine but still overrated in its function.. carry a few spare cans of starting fluid for those cold months.. theyre cantancuous by their own nature for having to rely on glowplugs. the duramax not to be confused with the inline 6 isuzu engine now being called a duramax in gm medium duty trucks is proving that it also has an appetite for glowplugs and has been cursed with overheating problems. i dont know enough about the duramax to make all that many comments about it except for experience of a few friends and my brothers oldest son who owned a gmc that gmc brought back from him after his duramax decided to suck the tips out of the glowplugs. the 6.5 chevy/gmc was the biggest pos of them all and nothing more than a converted olds even in its latest form and after gm convinced the public that it was a diesel from the ground up. they still plugged the distributor hole with a leaky rubber plug and never removed the casting for the fuel pump mount... its another part of dismal automotive history right up there with the vega and corvair. personally if i had the need for a pickup powered with a diesel and the option id go with an inline 6 cat powered pickup. nothing runs like a cat. the 3208 cat.. junk. ----== posted via feeds.com - unlimited-unrestricted-secure usenet ==---- http//www.feeds.com the #1 group service in the world! 120000+ groups ----= east and west-coast server farms - total privacy via encryption =---- .

From : roger rabbid

on sat 5 may 2007 012003 +0200 cest george orwell use-author-supplied-address-header@127.1 wrote autoblog comments http//snipurl.com/1jdu5 ford sold 55000 f series last month. gm sold 44000 and 12000 and dodge sold 36000. why does ford feel sooooo threatened by toyota to the ads are pathetic and i cant stand ford or their products. fords better ideas all suck just like their trucks... period. triton engines are boat anchors the v10 couldnt blow itself to hell if was cast in dynomite and the 6.0 navistar engine theyve been putting in their trucks is a fuel injector eating pile of camel dungh. i hope toyota kicks their sorry asses even if the tundra is the ugliest truck on the market next to a chevy. routinely attack it tundra sales were 15000 for april. doesnt ford know that the more it puts out commercials attacking a distant 4th place the more credibility it gives the tundra i mean if the 2007 f150 is superior to the tundra then let the people decide. the only reason a number one attacks a number 4 is if they feel inferior. also tundra can only wants to sell 200000 this year. ford as the king of trucks look at yourself and improve not dis fords running out of better ideas. look at their latest and greatest.. the tailgate step with ultra cheezy grab handle for little people who cant step high enough to get into the bed. others. unless you are afraid. ========== never underestimate the competition specially if it comes from the east. ford did it when they had the sales king aka taurus http//snipurl.com/adiostaurus and look what happened... ========== all ford does is talk about others. pathetic. they just whine. invest in the 4.6 and 5.4 first rather than on commercials. i am a chevy guy and i hope silverado puts the f-series to pasture. ========== dodge ram for the young stud mine makes me look younger chevy silverado for the middleaged man all come with free pair of blue pumps gmc sierra for the middleaged professional all come with a free pair of red pumps ford f-series = old mans truck for the man whos underwear have a knots in the crotch toyota tundra for the educated and demanding person educated tundra brake rotor $700.00. sierra brake rotor $100.00 demand will come when its parts replacement time and the parts are still floatings around the pacific on a barge. ========== rising sun http//snipurl.com/1jdu0 ----== posted via feeds.com - unlimited-unrestricted-secure usenet ==---- http//www.feeds.com the #1 group service in the world! 120000+ groups ----= east and west-coast server farms - total privacy via encryption =---- .

From : max dodge

screw that nonsense who cares about the competition when youve just been served a $2000000000 lawsuit by the supplier of the engines that make your f250/f350 products the top sellers that they are. hmmm.... 2 billion lawsuit n one hand toyota competion on the other........ anyone got a beer for these flames -- max join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about. there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author george orwell use-author-supplied-address-header@127.1 wrote in autoblog comments http//snipurl.com/1jdu5 ford sold 55000 f series last month. gm sold 44000 and 12000 and dodge sold 36000. why does ford feel sooooo threatened by toyota to routinely attack it tundra sales were 15000 for april. doesnt ford know that the more it puts out commercials attacking a distant 4th place the more credibility it gives the tundra i mean if the 2007 f150 is superior to the tundra then let the people decide. the only reason a number one attacks a number 4 is if they feel inferior. also tundra can only wants to sell 200000 this year. ford as the king of trucks look at yourself and improve not dis others. unless you are afraid. ========== never underestimate the competition specially if it comes from the east. ford did it when they had the sales king aka taurus http//snipurl.com/adiostaurus and look what happened... ========== all ford does is talk about others. pathetic. they just whine. invest in the 4.6 and 5.4 first rather than on commercials. i am a chevy guy and i hope silverado puts the f-series to pasture. ========== dodge ram for the young stud chevy silverado for the middleaged man gmc sierra for the middleaged professional ford f-series = old mans truck toyota tundra for the educated and demanding person ========== rising sun http//snipurl.com/1jdu0 .

From : noonair

you sure spend a lot of time worrying about what ford does in relation to toyota. trolls do that and they cross post to as many groups as they think they can get away with just to stir up shit. kinda like what you just did the op is a known pia why people respond to his posts..... with no idea what group you are posting from i just took a shot in the dark. personally i think i will remain in alt.auto.toyota.trucks have a nice day .

From : jeff strickland

you sure spend a lot of time worrying about what ford does in relation to toyota. .

From : noonair

you sure spend a lot of time worrying about what ford does in relation to toyota. trolls do that and they cross post to as many groups as they think they can get away with just to stir up shit. .

From : roy

you sure spend a lot of time worrying about what ford does in relation to toyota. trolls do that and they cross post to as many groups as they think they can get away with just to stir up shit. kinda like what you just did the op is a known pia why people respond to his posts..... .

From : tbone

they got no chance in hell of winning that law suit as the engines they sent ford were a bunch of worthless paper weights that only hurt fords reputation. sorry to burst your bubble max but it was not that pos diesel engine that made ford the top seller that it is like cummins did to keep dodge in the game at all. as for toyota i think that once again dodge has far more to fear than ford with the changes that they have made. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving screw that nonsense who cares about the competition when youve just been served a $2000000000 lawsuit by the supplier of the engines that make your f250/f350 products the top sellers that they are. hmmm.... 2 billion lawsuit n one hand toyota competion on the other........ anyone got a beer for these flames -- max join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about. there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author george orwell use-author-supplied-address-header@127.1 wrote in autoblog comments http//snipurl.com/1jdu5 ford sold 55000 f series last month. gm sold 44000 and 12000 and dodge sold 36000. why does ford feel sooooo threatened by toyota to routinely attack it tundra sales were 15000 for april. doesnt ford know that the more it puts out commercials attacking a distant 4th place the more credibility it gives the tundra i mean if the 2007 f150 is superior to the tundra then let the people decide. the only reason a number one attacks a number 4 is if they feel inferior. also tundra can only wants to sell 200000 this year. ford as the king of trucks look at yourself and improve not dis others. unless you are afraid. ========== never underestimate the competition specially if it comes from the east. ford did it when they had the sales king aka taurus http//snipurl.com/adiostaurus and look what happened... ========== all ford does is talk about others. pathetic. they just whine. invest in the 4.6 and 5.4 first rather than on commercials. i am a chevy guy and i hope silverado puts the f-series to pasture. ========== dodge ram for the young stud chevy silverado for the middleaged man gmc sierra for the middleaged professional ford f-series = old mans truck toyota tundra for the educated and demanding person ========== rising sun http//snipurl.com/1jdu0 .

From : max dodge

they got no chance in hell of winning that law suit as the engines they sent ford were a bunch of worthless paper weights that only hurt fords reputation. sorry to burst your bubble max but it was not that pos diesel engine that made ford the top seller that it is like cummins did to keep dodge in the game at all. as for toyota i think that once again dodge has far more to fear than ford with the changes that they have made. sadly you are misguided on this. navistar is suing because of breach of contract not because of anything else. when ford bought the engines they agreed to pay for them. ford did not follow through on this properly. second the engines being junk is in question as navistar feels that ford was at fault in the ecm problems. as such we the public will have to wait and see what happens. third part of navistars contention is that ford knowingly broke the contract by designing a replacement diesel far ahead of schedule. this has been reported in several papers along with info stating that ford is planning to drop the navistar engine at least two years ealier than the contract calls for. second the diesel option in the f250/350 was in fact what made it a top contender. you may be mistaking the #1 status of the f150 as part of the heavy truck sales; it is not. ford staked its sales on the psd reputation as built on the t444e. sadly the next generation failed to live up to the name. it was mentioned in several wire reports that ford sales would be drastically affected because the majority of the f250/350 trucks were leaving the factory with the psd. thus unless the lawsuits there are more than one pending on this issue between those companies fall totally fords direction ford will take a tremendous hit financially. as to toyota whenever a new product enters the market typically the best seller takes the hit. in this case the toyota offering wouldnt make a dent in the heavy pickup market since toyota doesnt offer one. secondly the dent to the sales of the big three would not be in the billions of dollars as the navistar lawsuit might be. as such when comparing the impact of the tundra to fords finacial future versus that of a $2billion lawsuit i think the lawsuit has more potential impact without question. thus i again say fords worries arent with toyota but with navistar. -- max join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about. there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author they got no chance in hell of winning that law suit as the engines they sent ford were a bunch of worthless paper weights that only hurt fords reputation. sorry to burst your bubble max but it was not that pos diesel engine that made ford the top seller that it is like cummins did to keep dodge in the game at all. as for toyota i think that once again dodge has far more to fear than ford with the changes that they have made. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving screw that nonsense who cares about the competition when youve just been served a $2000000000 lawsuit by the supplier of the engines that make your f250/f350 products the top sellers that they are. hmmm.... 2 billion lawsuit n one hand toyota competion on the other........ anyone got a beer for these flames -- max join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about. there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author george orwell use-author-supplied-address-header@127.1 wrote in autoblog comments http//snipurl.com/1jdu5 ford sold 55000 f series last month. gm sold 44000 and 12000 and dodge sold 36000. why does ford feel sooooo threatened by toyota to routinely attack it tundra sales were 15000 for april. doesnt ford know that the more it puts out commercials attacking a distant 4th place the more credibility it gives the tundra i mean if the 2007 f150 is superior to the tundra then let the people decide. the only reason a number one attacks a number 4 is if they feel inferior. also tundra can only wants to sell 200000 this year. ford as the king of trucks look at yourself and improve not dis others. unless you are afraid. ========== never underestimate the competition specially if it comes from the east. ford did it when they had the sales king aka taurus http//snipurl.com/adiostaurus and look what happened... ========== all ford does is talk about others. pathetic. they just whine. invest in the 4.6 and 5.4 first rather than on commercials. i am a chevy guy and i hope silverado puts the f-series to pasture. ========== dodge ram for the young stud chevy silverado for the middleaged man gmc sierra for the middleaged professional ford f-series = old mans truck toyota tundra for the educated and

From : eisboch

sadly you are misguided on this. navistar is suing because of breach of contract not because of anything else. when ford bought the engines they agreed to pay for them. ford did not follow through on this properly. the whole situation is a big mess and interconnected. ford claims that the reason they were witholding payments was because navistar was in breach of *their* contractual obligation to absorb some of the warranty repair costs associated with the 6.0l engine. rce .

From : tbone

-- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving if it were that easy to come to a decision certainly navistar and its lawyers would not have filed papers to begin with. sure they would have. if they didnt they would basically be admitting that they were supplying ford with a defective engine and that would damage their reputation even worse then it already is. you cant put a price on that. as i understand the situation the vast majority of the 6.0l problems have nothing to do with navistars basic engine. its the ford specified modifications including the variable vane turbo that is crashing. unless navistar can prove that ford went outside of their specifications for the engine they dont have much of a case. also if navistar built the engine to fords specs then they really dont have a leg to stand on. as for the turbos who supplied them the navistar version of the engine has been around for a while and is a non-event engine meaning no significant problems. if this is the engine that international was using on the vehicles that they sold to chemla

From : mike copeland

i cant believe gm sold 44000 f series trucks! this sounds quite bogus. gm does not sell f series. nor does dodge or toyota. ford is not nervous about another mfgr selling more ford trucks than ford does. what is this thread doing here anyhow ford sold 55000 f series last month. gm sold 44000 and 12000 and dodge sold 36000. why does ford feel sooooo threatened by toyota to routinely attack it tundra sales were 15000 for april. doesnt ford know that the more it puts out commercials attacking a distant 4th place the more credibility it gives the tundra i mean if the 2007 f150 is superior to the tundra then let the people decide. the only reason a number one attacks a number 4 is if they feel inferior. also tundra can only wants to sell 200000 this year. ford as the king of trucks look at yourself and improve not dis others. unless you are afraid. ========== never underestimate the competition specially if it comes from the east. ford did it when they had the sales king aka taurus http//snipurl.com/adiostaurus and look what happened... ========== all ford does is talk about others. pathetic. they just whine. invest in the 4.6 and 5.4 first rather than on commercials. i am a chevy guy and i hope silverado puts the f-series to pasture. ========== dodge ram for the young stud chevy silverado for the middleaged man gmc sierra for the middleaged professional ford f-series = old mans truck toyota tundra for the educated and demanding person ========== rising sun http//snipurl.com/1jdu0 .

From : eisboch

sales. you know i wouldnt be suprised if toyota hasnt been talking to navistar hoping to get them to place either the 6.4 or a newer engine in the tundra if they break off with ford. -- k . 222 334633 hnwdnbqyp-nmzqlbnz2dnuvzh-vnz2d@giga.com if it were that easy to come to a decision certainly navistar and its lawyers would not have filed papers to begin with. sure they would have. if they didnt they would basically be admitting that they were supplying ford with a defective engine and that would damage their reputation even worse then it already is. you cant put a price on that. as i understand the situation the vast majority of the 6.0l problems have nothing to do with navistars basic engine. its the ford specified modifications including the variable vane turbo that is crashing. the navistar version of the engine has been around for a while and is a non-event engine meaning no significant problems. eisboch .

From : snoman

on mon 7 may 2007 122535 -0400 eisboch nothere@nowhere.com wrote as i understand the situation the vast majority of the 6.0l problems have nothing to do with navistars basic engine. its the ford specified modifications including the variable vane turbo that is crashing. the bigger problem is injector troubles they leak and dilute the crankcase oil. there has been a lot of blown engines over this. i heard of one blown form this when it was 3 weeks old. ----------------- thesnoman.com .

From : max dodge

the whole situation is a big mess and interconnected. ford claims that the reason they were witholding payments was because navistar was in breach of *their* contractual obligation to absorb some of the warranty repair costs associated with the 6.0l engine. precisely. thus the claim that navistar has nothing and the suit will fall apart is a bit short sighted. if it were that easy to come to a decision certainly navistar and its lawyers would not have filed papers to begin with. what signifies this action as solidly based and a huge threat to ford is the dollar amount. a supplier such as navistar doesnt bite the hand that feeds it simply because it seems like the thing to do. navistars reputation and financial status may well be on the line here and they undoubtedly feel its worth taking action. the real point is ford is on shakey ground to begin with now a $2b lawsuit will at very least sap their cash reserves let alone the effects of an adverse judgement. next point is toyota isnt the threat to domestic truck sales that was foreseen mostly because of the recent jump in fuel costs. however toyota has a habit of aiming at the top. currently the top 1/2 ton pickup is the f150. so far toyota hasnt put a serious dent in those sales. -- max join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about. there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author sadly you are misguided on this. navistar is suing because of breach of contract not because of anything else. when ford bought the engines they agreed to pay for them. ford did not follow through on this properly. the whole situation is a big mess and interconnected. ford claims that the reason they were witholding payments was because navistar was in breach of *their* contractual obligation to absorb some of the warranty repair costs associated with the 6.0l engine. rce .

From : max dodge

i cant believe gm sold 44000 f series trucks! this sounds quite bogus. gm does not sell f series. nor does dodge or toyota. ford is not nervous about another mfgr selling more ford trucks than ford does. what is this thread doing here anyhow making people like you ask facetious questions -- max join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about. there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author i cant believe gm sold 44000 f series trucks! this sounds quite bogus. gm does not sell f series. nor does dodge or toyota. ford is not nervous about another mfgr selling more ford trucks than ford does. what is this thread doing here anyhow ford sold 55000 f series last month. gm sold 44000 and 12000 and dodge sold 36000. why does ford feel sooooo threatened by toyota to routinely attack it tundra sales were 15000 for april. doesnt ford know that the more it puts out commercials attacking a distant 4th place the more credibility it gives the tundra i mean if the 2007 f150 is superior to the tundra then let the people decide. the only reason a number one attacks a number 4 is if they feel inferior. also tundra can only wants to sell 200000 this year. ford as the king of trucks look at yourself and improve not dis others. unless you are afraid. ========== never underestimate the competition specially if it comes from the east. ford did it when they had the sales king aka taurus http//snipurl.com/adiostaurus and look what happened... ========== all ford does is talk about others. pathetic. they just whine. invest in the 4.6 and 5.4 first rather than on commercials. i am a chevy guy and i hope silverado puts the f-series to pasture. ========== dodge ram for the young stud chevy silverado for the middleaged man gmc sierra for the middleaged professional ford f-series = old mans truck toyota tundra for the educated and demanding person ========== rising sun http//snipurl.com/1jdu0 .

From : eisboch

the whole situation is a big mess and interconnected. ford claims that the reason they were witholding payments was because navistar was in breach of *their* contractual obligation to absorb some of the warranty repair costs associated with the 6.0l engine. precisely. thus the claim that navistar has nothing and the suit will fall apart is a bit short sighted. if it were that easy to come to a decision certainly navistar and its lawyers would not have filed papers to begin with. what signifies this action as solidly based and a huge threat to ford is the dollar amount. a supplier such as navistar doesnt bite the hand that feeds it simply because it seems like the thing to do. navistars reputation and financial status may well be on the line here and they undoubtedly feel its worth taking action. the real point is ford is on shakey ground to begin with now a $2b lawsuit will at very least sap their cash reserves let alone the effects of an adverse judgement. i think the $2b lawsuit is nothing more than to catch fords attention and attempt to force ford to honor existing engine contracts. from what ive read it is based on navistars opinion that ford is moving forward with plans to design and build their own diesel engine rather than continue to purchase them from navistar. apparently there is a contract clause that prohibits ford from doing so until after 2012. it will get tanglefooted because i am sure that ford being solely dependent on navistar insisted on having certain performance related obligations imposed on navistar as well. eisboch .

From : max dodge

i think the $2b lawsuit is nothing more than to catch fords attention and attempt to force ford to honor existing engine contracts. from what ive read it is based on navistars opinion that ford is moving forward with plans to design and build their own diesel engine rather than continue to purchase them from navistar. apparently there is a contract clause that prohibits ford from doing so until after 2012. it will get tanglefooted because i am sure that ford being solely dependent on navistar insisted on having certain performance related obligations imposed on navistar as well. certainly its an attention-getter. but in the corporate world frivolous lawsuits arent the method of operation. clearly again navistar feels its got good ground to stand on for the dollar figure. -- max join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about. there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author the whole situation is a big mess and interconnected. ford claims that the reason they were witholding payments was because navistar was in breach of *their* contractual obligation to absorb some of the warranty repair costs associated with the 6.0l engine. precisely. thus the claim that navistar has nothing and the suit will fall apart is a bit short sighted. if it were that easy to come to a decision certainly navistar and its lawyers would not have filed papers to begin with. what signifies this action as solidly based and a huge threat to ford is the dollar amount. a supplier such as navistar doesnt bite the hand that feeds it simply because it seems like the thing to do. navistars reputation and financial status may well be on the line here and they undoubtedly feel its worth taking action. the real point is ford is on shakey ground to begin with now a $2b lawsuit will at very least sap their cash reserves let alone the effects of an adverse judgement. i think the $2b lawsuit is nothing more than to catch fords attention and attempt to force ford to honor existing engine contracts. from what ive read it is based on navistars opinion that ford is moving forward with plans to design and build their own diesel engine rather than continue to purchase them from navistar. apparently there is a contract clause that prohibits ford from doing so until after 2012. it will get tanglefooted because i am sure that ford being solely dependent on navistar insisted on having certain performance related obligations imposed on navistar as well. eisboch .

From : max dodge

on mon 7 may 2007 135326 -0400 tbone tbonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote unless navistar can prove that ford went outside of their specifications for the engine they dont have much of a case. i do know that ford raise the standard for the acceptable level of fuel in oil from the industry standard of about 2% to about 9% on the 6.0 because of leaky injectors. i do not know if this was fords or internationals idea ----------------- thesnoman.com .

From : tbone

they got no chance in hell of winning that law suit as the engines they sent ford were a bunch of worthless paper weights that only hurt fords reputation. sorry to burst your bubble max but it was not that pos diesel engine that made ford the top seller that it is like cummins did to keep dodge in the game at all. as for toyota i think that once again dodge has far more to fear than ford with the changes that they have made. sadly you are misguided on this. navistar is suing because of breach of contract not because of anything else. i am well aware of what they are suing for. the question is who actually breached the contract. when ford bought the engines they agreed to pay for them. ford did not follow through on this properly. and when navistar signed the contract they agreed to provide reliable engines to ford and they also appear not to have done so. second the engines being junk is in question as navistar feels that ford was at fault in the ecm problems. as such we the public will have to wait and see what happens. unless navistar can somehow prove this and i doubt that they can ford still has a good case. afaik ford didnt stop paying untill navistar stopped fixing them. third part of navistars contention is that ford knowingly broke the contract by designing a replacement diesel far ahead of schedule. i doubt very much that ford was restricted on when it could begin design of a new engine only on implementation on specific vehicles. as for replacement ford could simply claim that they were looking to replace them ahead of schedule due to the excessive failure rates of the navistar engines and the damage it was causing to sales and their reputation. this has been reported in several papers along with info stating that ford is planning to drop the navistar engine at least two years ealier than the contract calls for. and with the excessive failure rate could you blame them navistar would have to prove that their engines were everything that they promised and as said before i doubt that they can. second the diesel option in the f250/350 was in fact what made it a top contender. while a diesel option helped to make them a top contender it was not the navistar name just the engine type along with the strength and durability of the vehicles for the price. if it was just the engine then dodge should be no 1 by a wide margine as the cummins is simply better than the rest so far and again by a wide margine. you may be mistaking the #1 status of the f150 as part of the heavy truck sales; it is not. i never said that it was and we are talking about two totally different things now. the f150 is a completely different truck from the superduty series. ford staked its sales on the psd reputation as built on the t444e. i agree that ford has staked some of its sales on the psd but it takes more than just an engine to get the sales or as i said before dodge would be #1 in the medium duty p/us. sadly the next generation failed to live up to the name. lol understatement of the year. it was mentioned in several wire reports that ford sales would be drastically affected because the majority of the f250/350 trucks were leaving the factory with the psd. sure it would and that is the reason that ford is looking to remove them 2 years ahead of schedule but again while the engine can stop sales if it is a pos or thought of as one it takes more than just a good engine to get them. thus unless the lawsuits there are more than one pending on this issue between those companies fall totally fords direction ford will take a tremendous hit financially. i doubt it. they will just appeal it as will navistar and this will go on for years. as to toyota whenever a new product enters the market typically the best seller takes the hit. actually the biggest tends to take the largest hit but not always especially with vehicles and brand loyalty. in this case the toyota offering wouldnt make a dent in the heavy pickup market since toyota doesnt offer one. not yet but as we have seen toyota looks toward the future unlike the american ones. if there is money to be made there that is where they will go. secondly the dent to the sales of the big three would not be in the billions of dollars as the navistar lawsuit might be. dont bet on that. even if navistar happens to win it is a one shot deal and then its over not to mention the appeals that could drag it out for years. every truck that toyota happens to sell is a loss for one of the big three and since most of their profits come from their truck and suv sales it is more significant than you might imagine. then in order to reclaim those sales they have to do research to see why they lost them to toyota possibly make design changes to re-attract those customers and at a minimum wage an advertising war to show how they are better t

From : b a r r y

steve barker wrote i cant imagine two things 1. a person watching commercials tivo rules! g .

From : snoman

on mon 07 may 2007 123622 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote certainly its an attention-getter. but in the corporate world frivolous lawsuits arent the method of operation. clearly again navistar feels its got good ground to stand on for the dollar figure. i am not sure who is in the right here. ih used to make some of the finest deisels out there and the 7.3 was great motor but the 6.0 caused ford a lot of grief and tarnished their reputation. they both have issues that are going to take some time to sort out in court and in the mean time ford saves so working cash while this is being resolved. the 6.0 should have never been made i think. ----------------- thesnoman.com .

From : perfectreign

on mon 07 may 2007 051432 +0000 max dodge rebooted the etch-a-sketch and scribbled the whole situation is a big mess and interconnected. ford claims that the reason they were witholding payments was because navistar was in breach of *their* contractual obligation to absorb some of the warranty repair costs associated with the 6.0l engine. precisely. thus the claim that navistar has nothing and the suit will fall apart is a bit short sighted. if it were that easy to come to a decision certainly navistar and its lawyers would not have filed papers to begin with. what signifies this action as solidly based and a huge threat to ford is the dollar amount. a supplier such as navistar doesnt bite the hand that feeds it simply because it seems like the thing to do. navistars reputation and financial status may well be on the line here and they undoubtedly feel its worth taking action. the real point is ford is on shakey ground to begin with now a $2b lawsuit will at very least sap their cash reserves let alone the effects of an adverse judgement. next point is toyota isnt the threat to domestic truck sales that was foreseen mostly because of the recent jump in fuel costs. however toyota has a habit of aiming at the top. currently the top 1/2 ton pickup is the f150. so far toyota hasnt put a seriou

From : jr

i have a 2000 dodge durango with 165k on it. i noticed recently with the a/c on it ides rough sounds like a miss in the engine. anyone have any ideas .

From : rce

gentlemen i am happily subscribed to the chevy truck groups. i care not a wit what ford dodge or toyota did or does with or to their trucks. please refrain from cross-posting to the chevy truck groups. thanks regards jr sorry about that. as one who also is occasionally annoyed by crossposting i should know better. i simply didnt read the headers. eisboch .

From : tbone

the whole situation is a big mess and interconnected. ford claims that the reason they were witholding payments was because navistar was in breach of *their* contractual obligation to absorb some of the warranty repair costs associated with the 6.0l engine. precisely. thus the claim that navistar has nothing and the suit will fall apart is a bit short sighted. not really. if it were that easy to come to a decision certainly navistar and its lawyers would not have filed papers to begin with. sure they would have. if they didnt they would basically be admitting that they were supplying ford with a defective engine and that would damage their reputation even worse then it already is. you cant put a price on that. what signifies this action as solidly based and a huge threat to ford is the dollar amount. now you are assuming that even if they win that they would get the full dollar amount. ford will not worry about this until they lose and all of their appeals are done. a supplier such as navistar doesnt bite the hand that feeds it simply because it seems like the thing to do. hahahahaha now that was funny. this kind of thing happens all of the time. perhaps you should read some of the financial papers every now and then. navistars reputation and financial status may well be on the line here and they undoubtedly feel its worth taking action. thank you for supporting my prior point. navistar is suing for their reputation especially since they already lost one when they stopped supplying engines and were forced to resume. the real point is ford is on shakey ground to begin with now a $2b lawsuit will at very least sap their cash reserves let alone the effects of an adverse judgment. how will an adverse judgment hurt ford besides the money next point is toyota isnt the threat to domestic truck sales that was foreseen mostly because of the recent jump in fuel costs. however toyota has a habit of aiming at the top. currently the top 1/2 ton pickup is the f150. so far toyota hasnt put a serious dent in those sales. and that is the key word so far. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .