Exchange my V-10 for a diesel cost effective?
From : tom allemani
Q: was wondering how involved it would be to rip out my v-10 and install a diesel provided the cost was not excessive. meaning more than trading it in for a new one. mine is a 1999 4x4 quad cab tow package w 39000 mi on it. pretty much mint except for some parking lot dings. i like the truck the- mileage - not so much anyway i thought somebody here might have done this and was willing to share info on the subject. thanks tom .
Replies:
From : geekboy
it would be cheaper to sell yours and buy one. i bought a 2000 with 93k miles club cab and long box with performance goodies tow package and 54 gal fuel tank for 15k. was wondering how involved it would be to rip out my v-10 and install a diesel provided the cost was not excessive. meaning more than trading it in for a new one. mine is a 1999 4x4 quad cab tow package w 39000 mi on it. pretty much mint except for some parking lot dings. i like the truck the- mileage - not so much anyway i thought somebody here might have done this and was willing to share info on the subject. thanks tom .
From : christopher thompson
i recently traded a 99 v10 for a 05 cummins best move ive made in a while. the cummins pulls like a dream and is getting twice the fuel milage the 8l was empty. -- -chris 05 ctd 99 durango 06 liberty crd was wondering how involved it would be to rip out my v-10 and install a diesel provided the cost was not excessive. meaning more than trading it in for a new one. mine is a 1999 4x4 quad cab tow package w 39000 mi on it. pretty much mint except for some parking lot dings. i like the truck the- mileage - not so much anyway i thought somebody here might have done this and was willing to share info on the subject. thanks tom .
From : snoman
on sun 30 apr 2006 152134 -0500 tom allemani tallemani@comcast.net wrote was wondering how involved it would be to rip out my v-10 and install a diesel provided the cost was not excessive. meaning more than trading it in for a new one. mine is a 1999 4x4 quad cab tow package w 39000 mi on it. pretty much mint except for some parking lot dings. i like the truck the- mileage - not so much anyway i thought somebody here might have done this and was willing to share info on the subject. thanks tom if you want to do something radical convert it to run on propane as it has not skyrocketed like other fuels and it has a octane of 110 plus so you could raise compression up to 12 to 1 or more and get some really impressive power too. bulk propane is running about 1.65 a gallon here. ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .
From : carolina watercraft works
that would be interesting. anyone have any insight on this conversion -- ------------------------------------------ laszlo almasi ----cool toys formerly carolina watercraft works ----mack daddy trailers ----ice angels on sun 30 apr 2006 152134 -0500 tom allemani tallemani@comcast.net wrote was wondering how involved it would be to rip out my v-10 and install a diesel provided the cost was not excessive. meaning more than trading it in for a new one. mine is a 1999 4x4 quad cab tow package w 39000 mi on it. pretty much mint except for some parking lot dings. i like the truck the- mileage - not so much anyway i thought somebody here might have done this and was willing to share info on the subject. thanks tom if you want to do something radical convert it to run on propane as it has not skyrocketed like other fuels and it has a octane of 110 plus so you could raise compression up to 12 to 1 or more and get some really impressive power too. bulk propane is running about 1.65 a gallon here. ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .
From : snoman
on sun 30 apr 2006 225117 -0400 carolina watercraft works cooltoys@bellsouth.net wrote that would be interesting. anyone have any insight on this conversion i have read about several of them and i have a 79 jeep j20 that i want to restore someday and i am seriously considering making it a propane only vehical. the problem with some conversions is that they put propane in a stock engine and it will burn fine with extremely low emissions too but propane has about 25% les energy per gallon than gas so you need more of it in a stock engine but since propane has a lot higher octane you can raise cr to 12 to 1 no sweat and increase power and efficency and get mpg simular to gas on stock compression but with a lot cheap fuel. it also burn a bit slower so more spark advance is needed to which most dual fuel gas/propane engine do not properly do. the draw back is you have to install a somewhat heavy tank for fuel stored under pressure but since propane weighs 4 lbs a gallon vs 6.5lbs/gal for gas the lighter fuel ofsets most or all of this weight. pound for pound propane has more energy than gas. by weight 6.5 lbs of gas one gallon contain about 120000btu plus or minus depending on blend and 6.5 lbs of propane has approx 145000 btus this heat energy is what drives the engine while the same amout of e85 has only about 60.000 btu and a gallon of e85 weighs almost 8 lbs too. the main reason that diesel get good mpg is because the fuel has a higher energy content about 140000 btu/gal and with the very high cr or 16 to 20 to 1 you get much higher thermodynamic efficency convert more heat energy to work. but if you use a fuel like propane or even high octane fuel it is possible to raise cr ratio a good bit and improve efficency. some mention running cars on natural gas or hydrogen but the problem there is it take a lot of pressue and technology to store them in a ligud state to get a lot of range where propane is a lot easier to store and handle. ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .
From : tom allemani
i guess i should have been more clear what i was looking for was what was involved in removing the v-10 and installing a deisel. to trade my truck in for a new dodge same equiptment would take appr $25-30k i thought mabey having a deisel put in my truck might be a little cheaper than that. most used deisels are about to expire their warrante so they are traded not my cup of tea. i suppose the comp has to be adjusted or different comp dont know if the dsl will bolt in the tranny either anyway that was actually my question thanks tom ps chris you diddnt say if you traded engines or trucks. was wondering how involved it would be to rip out my v-10 and install a diesel provided the cost was not excessive. meaning more than trading it in for a new one. mine is a 1999 4x4 quad cab tow package w 39000 mi on it. pretty much mint except for some parking lot dings. i like the truck the- mileage - not so much anyway i thought somebody here might have done this and was willing to share info on the subject. thanks tom .
From : tom lawrence
having a deisel put in my truck might be a little cheaper than that. most used deisels are about to expire their warrante so they are traded not my cup of tea. and you think youll have any kind of warranty on your truck after you install an engine that it wasnt originally equipped with but - that aside... an engine will run you about $7k. the transmission will actually bolt up. youll need an intercooler about $1k an exhaust $500 an intake $200-$300 a different fuel tank module and fuel lines $300 a different pcm $400 and other misc. stuff... youll be at $10k before labor. i would think you could easily trade your truck for a similarly-used diesel for under $10k in cash. .
From : tom allemani
so it would cost me about 10k before labor- and if i understand you correctly they dont warrentee their desiel engines that they sell if they are not installed in the factory if labor was appr 2k-2.5k =12-14k still cheaper than trading it in for new. well just exploring my options. buying used is ok if you buy it from somebody used to running deisel and maintaning same. i drove otr and many of my friends do that also. still curious as if anybody has done this. thanks tom was wondering how involved it would be to rip out my v-10 and install a diesel provided the cost was not excessive. meaning more than trading it in for a new one. mine is a 1999 4x4 quad cab tow package w 39000 mi on it. pretty much mint except for some parking lot dings. i like the truck the- mileage - not so much anyway i thought somebody here might have done this and was willing to share info on the subject. thanks tom .
From : geekboy
it was quite clear what you wanted. as you see everyone is in consensus that it is a better decision to trade in the vehicle for a diesel. sure used ones may not be warrantied but you can buy an extended warranty. i guess i should have been more clear what i was looking for was what was involved in removing the v-10 and installing a deisel. to trade my truck in for a new dodge same equiptment would take appr $25-30k i thought mabey having a deisel put in my truck might be a little cheaper than that. most used deisels are about to expire their warrante so they are traded not my cup of tea. i suppose the comp has to be adjusted or different comp dont know if the dsl will bolt in the tranny either anyway that was actually my question thanks tom ps chris you diddnt say if you traded engines or trucks. was wondering how involved it would be to rip out my v-10 and install a diesel provided the cost was not excessive. meaning more than trading it in for a new one. mine is a 1999 4x4 quad cab tow package w 39000 mi on it. pretty much mint except for some parking lot dings. i like the truck the- mileage - not so much anyway i thought somebody here might have done this and was willing to share info on the subject. thanks tom .
From : christopher thompson
i traded trucks. like i said best move ive made. the cummins is a dream. at the cost of a new diesel engine plus the headaches of figuring out what all has to swap ect. i sincerly doubt it would be a worthy venture. my honest opinion is trade for a new and you will be amazed at the fuel savings alone. not to mention the amount of pullin power like the v10 isnt impressive enough -- -chris 05 ctd 99 durango 06 liberty crd i guess i should have been more clear what i was looking for was what was involved in removing the v-10 and installing a deisel. to trade my truck in for a new dodge same equiptment would take appr $25-30k i thought mabey having a deisel put in my truck might be a little cheaper than that. most used deisels are about to expire their warrante so they are traded not my cup of tea. i suppose the comp has to be adjusted or different comp dont know if the dsl will bolt in the tranny either anyway that was actually my question thanks tom ps chris you diddnt say if you traded engines or trucks. was wondering how involved it would be to rip out my v-10 and install a diesel provided the cost was not excessive. meaning more than trading it in for a new one. mine is a 1999 4x4 quad cab tow package w 39000 mi on it. pretty much mint except for some parking lot dings. i like the truck the- mileage - not so much anyway i thought somebody here might have done this and was willing to share info on the subject. thanks tom .
From : tom lawrence
are not installed in the factory if labor was appr 2k-2.5k =12-14k still cheaper than trading it in for new. youre comparing apples to oranges... by trading for new youre also getting a new truck wrapped around the new engine. you need to compare the costs to trading in for a comparable 99 ctd. .
From : bob
tom allemani wrote was wondering how involved it would be to rip out my v-10 and install a diesel provided the cost was not excessive. meaning more than trading it in for a new one. mine is a 1999 4x4 quad cab tow package w 39000 mi on it. pretty much mint except for some parking lot dings. i like the truck the- mileage - not so much anyway i thought somebody here might have done this and was willing to share info on the subject. thanks tom the good is that since its a stock engine/trans the swap can be done with all factory parts. no need to scour dozens of catalogs and web sites to find everything you need. of course you have to buy the engine and trans. also fuel system tank to engine and electronic controls wire harness and computer. dont forget the new exhaust system. the diesel engine is a bit heavier than the v-10 so youll have to replace the appropriate front suspension bits. clutch linkage. motor and trans mounts. drive shafts. etc etc. your best bet would be to find a wrecked truck to be a donor. on the plus side all the parts you remove will have some value. but probably not as much as you might think. if i were looking for a v-10 for a performance project id be looking for the viper engine and trans not the ram. but you could find another truck owner who needs a new engine. is it economical good question. if you do the math youll probably find it will take a lot of miles to break even on a project like this. lets say you could get it all done for $10k. how much gas can you buy for $10k around here diesel cost more than premium gas. unless you really have a hankering to undertake a project like this forget it. -- ..bob arrived 2006 fxdi red. 1997 hd fxdwg - turbocharged stolen 11/26/05 in denver 1hd1gel10vy3200010 co license j5822z 2001 dodge dakota qc 5.9/4x4/3.92 1966 mustang coupe - daily driver 1965 ffr cobra - 427w efi damn fast. .
From : tom lawrence
will take a lot of miles to break even on a project like this. lets say you could get it all done for $10k. how much gas can you buy for $10k good point... i completely overlooked that. based on a previous response diesel vs. gas at todays prices and in my area where diesel is a little cheaper than anything but 87 octane it took about 50000 miles to make up $5k. obviously thats 100000 miles to break even on the $10k or more if hes in a situation like you are where diesel is more expensive probably around 130000 miles or so. thats why the $5k premium for the diesel at the time of initial purchase is such a good deal... at 62000 miles my engines already paid for .
From : tom allemani
thanks for the replys it looks like having a swap to deisel done may not be cost effective if done with new parts engine ect finding a donor is more than i am willing to deal with because there is no way of me telling how that vechicle was maintained. i have bought engines from the local boneyard and got an engine as bad as i had allready shure they would exchange it for another but the re-exchange is a lot of work. sill cheaper than buying new truck but you dont get that new truck smell also i see one post says i would have to change trannys 1 says not. i failed to mention i have an automatic tranny i dont know if that makes any difference as to bolt up. you know- gas auto to deisel auto trannys. anyway thanks again for the replys tom. was wondering how involved it would be to rip out my v-10 and install a diesel provided the cost was not excessive. meaning more than trading it in for a new one. mine is a 1999 4x4 quad cab tow package w 39000 mi on it. pretty much mint except for some parking lot dings. i like the truck the- mileage - not so much anyway i thought somebody here might have done this and was willing to share info on the subject. thanks tom .
From : tom allemani
not to be trite but the truck i have is in great shape i dont really need a new one being afraid of buying other peoples troubles would rather spend the trade in money on new parts and i would at least know what i got. i checked a couple dealers about trade in for a truck with about the same miles on it = 39528 they had nothing under 50000mi. for the same type w deisel engine truck with 50000 they wanted 11000 to boot and my truck. simaliar deals at other dealers. this is where i got the idea for swaping engines. for about the same money i would have a new diesel engine better mileage in a truck that i know has been taken care of. this is where i am coming from so to speak. but didnt have a good idea what is involved so came to this group to see if anybody has done this already or something similar. oh almost forgot tradeing for new would be about 25k - 30k to boot in my area. thanks again for the replys tom are not installed in the factory if labor was appr 2k-2.5k =12-14k still cheaper than trading it in for new. youre comparing apples to oranges... by trading for new youre also getting a new truck wrapped around the new engine. you need to compare the costs to trading in for a comparable 99 ctd. .
From : tom lawrence
also i see one post says i would have to change trannys 1 says not. i failed to mention i have an automatic tranny i dont know if that makes any difference as to bolt up. the diesel and v10 used the same transmission in that year - the 47re. since the adapter plate on the back of the cummins is made by dc they would have no reason not to match the existing bellhousing pattern. the real question is are you going to keep this truck for 100000+ miles to accumulate enough fuel savings to offset the cost of the engine swap .
From : Annonymous
still to get the full benefit youd have to pull the v10 out and make modifications. trade that v10 in on a 12-valve cummins and then install a cng compressed natuarl gas fuel system so that it is true bi-fuel. with a flip of a switch youd run either straight diesel or diesel pilot/cng. ive dreampt of it but money is tight...of course these days it might be a consideration of who cannot afford to do so. i was thinking cng was closer to 130 octane but i only have three phds and two lunar missions under my belt. still range is limited with cng. average cng fuel tanks 18gge at 3600 psi is not going to take you as far as chemical fuels...300 mile range would be optomistic. ford currently makes cng dedicated vehicles that have a range of 425 miles! i could live with that. downside is depending on where you live you cant fuel up your cng tank. limited places where you can refuel at present good is cng is the future baby...have no doubt. one cool option would be to have a compressor in your garage attached to your natural gas line. then you could recharge your vehicles tank over night using an automated compressor like those used for scuba tanks. imagine getting your fuel bill embedded within your utility bill! heres a sight that lists where many alternative fuel stations can be found within the united states... http//www.ngv.org/ngv/ngvorg01.nsf/bytitle/nrelstationlocator.htm randolf .
From : Annonymous
you would loose money and time and sanity. id shop around for one of those rare jewels...1998 - quad cab - 2-wheel drive - long wheel base - 12-valve diesel with manual transmission. as beautiful as they are dependable! randolf .
From : john graessertom allemani
i guarantee there is a point where you would definately consider moving closer to work. maby not $10 a gallon but maby $20 or $30. everyone has a price so to speak. i was only saying that more people should prepare themselves for higher energy costs instead of just complaining about them. you cant expect our oil supply to last forever. we are already on the downward spiral back in the 1970s was when they started finding less and less new oil deposits each year. once the current oil is gone there isnt enough new oil being found just to maintain current demand. synthetic oil cant replace the vast amounts of oil being burned it hardly could cover the lubrication needs of the world. all those $300000 dollar houses that are 20 miles from anywhere will be worthless in 20-30 years since nobody will have the fuel to get to them. .
From : tom allemani
well i got my answer its not cost effective. unless something like engine failure occured there seems to be no real benifit to doing a swap like this. even then it would probably be better to have a 360 installed. this is the 2nd v-10 in this truck the first one failed at 17000 something to do with porus castings i belive. dodge replaced that engine at no cost. if this one goes it will be my dime then as the extended warrentee time limit is up. it seems to be doing just fine now but you never know.... btw i pulled a 9000lb tt from minnesota to san francisco and back the engine didnt seem to notice any mountians it did favor the pit stops but no problems. oh i talked to a guy in a campground that says his chevy truck is on its 3rd allison tranny. of course i have no way of verifing his story but that dont sound good. anyway thanks for the replys. tom also i see one post says i would have to change trannys 1 says not. i failed to mention i have an automatic tranny i dont know if that makes any difference as to bolt up. the diesel and v10 used the same transmission in that year - the 47re. since the adapter plate on the back of the cummins is made by dc they would have no reason not to match the existing bellhousing pattern. the real question is are you going to keep this truck for 100000+ miles to accumulate enough fuel savings to offset the cost of the engine swap .
From : christopher thompson
food for thought. ive got a 360 in my durango and owned a 99 2500 v10 before i bought my 05 cummins. the 360 will not give you any better gas milage and the v10 will out pull it hands down. -- -chris 05 ctd 99 durango 06 liberty crd will the highways on the internet become more few --george w. bush concord new hampshire; january 29 2000 well i got my answer its not cost effective. unless something like engine failure occured there seems to be no real benifit to doing a swap like this. even then it would probably be better to have a 360 installed. this is the 2nd v-10 in this truck the first one failed at 17000 something to do with porus castings i belive. dodge replaced that engine at no cost. if this one goes it will be my dime then as the extended warrentee time limit is up. it seems to be doing just fine now but you never know.... btw i pulled a 9000lb tt from minnesota to san francisco and back the engine didnt seem to notice any mountians it did favor the pit stops but no problems. oh i talked to a guy in a campground that says his chevy truck is on its 3rd allison tranny. of course i have no way of verifing his story but that dont sound good. anyway thanks for the replys. tom also i see one post says i would have to change trannys 1 says not. i failed to mention i have an automatic tranny i dont know if that makes any difference as to bolt up. the diesel and v10 used the same transmission in that year - the 47re. since the adapter plate on the back of the cummins is made by dc they would have no reason not to match the existing bellhousing pattern. the real question is are you going to keep this truck for 100000+ miles to accumulate enough fuel savings to offset the cost of the engine swap .