Dodge Ram with Front Frame Rail Damage?

From : Annonymous

Q: i was just about to buy a used truck 2004 dodge ram 4x4 diesel and just before we finalized the deal i found out it was in an accident even though the dealer said it was not - even in writing. when i obtained detailed claim information from the insurance company i found out it the front left and right rails had been repaired about 4 hours of labor total. apparently this truck was involved in an accident in a parking lot and had around $7000 in repairs. looked more like the previous owner rear-ended someone. while i know that buying a used vehicle with frame repair is usually a no-no is there anyway of knowing if the repair was done perfectly - so it will never develop faults in the drivetrain as a result or so it will not compromise safety in a future accident privacy laws prevent me from finding out who did the repairs. perhaps i should just run away now thanks paula .

Replies:

From : azwiley1

personally i would run just because the dealership lied but a ram 1500 with a cummins and frame rail damage would make me cautious. i was just about to buy a used truck 2004 dodge ram 4x4 diesel and just before we finalized the deal i found out it was in an accident even though the dealer said it was not - even in writing. when i obtained detailed claim information from the insurance company i found out it the front left and right rails had been repaired about 4 hours of labor total. apparently this truck was involved in an accident in a parking lot and had around $7000 in repairs. looked more like the previous owner rear-ended someone. while i know that buying a used vehicle with frame repair is usually a no-no is there anyway of knowing if the repair was done perfectly - so it will never develop faults in the drivetrain as a result or so it will not compromise safety in a future accident privacy laws prevent me from finding out who did the repairs. perhaps i should just run away now thanks paula .

From : Annonymous

its a 3500 but i am sure that makes little difference. yeah they lied not once but twice they also lied about the black book value which we later verified on-line. so we then spent two days grinding them down with a new set of offers based on our correct information. when they said they would give us the no-accident report the day we picked up the truck and handed over our money but not sooner than that it sent off some warning bells with us so we paid to pull the accident history and then both my husband and i promptly had catastrophic hissy fits. were definitely walking away from this deal now and were trying to decide if we should keep any kind of decent relationship with the dealer to try and get a deal on another truck they definitely have incentive to try to keep as happy or write a nasty letter to daimlerchrysler in the hopes that this dealer will lose their 5 star rating. but then again maybe its their policy to lie to customers just as long as we dont find out - and if we do just make sure we cant prove it so writing a letter would be a waste of time. perhaps the bbb ohhh...i dont know i am still soooo mad about all of this i cant even think straight..... thanks for your comments! paula azwiley1 wrote personally i would run just because the dealership lied but a ram 1500 with a cummins and frame rail damage would make me cautious. i was just about to buy a used truck 2004 dodge ram 4x4 diesel and just before we finalized the deal i found out it was in an accident even though the dealer said it was not - even in writing. when i obtained detailed claim information from the insurance company i found out it the front left and right rails had been repaired about 4 hours of labor total. apparently this truck was involved in an accident in a parking lot and had around $7000 in repairs. looked more like the previous owner rear-ended someone. while i know that buying a used vehicle with frame repair is usually a no-no is there anyway of knowing if the repair was done perfectly - so it will never develop faults in the drivetrain as a result or so it will not compromise safety in a future accident privacy laws prevent me from finding out who did the repairs. perhaps i should just run away now thanks paula .

From : roy

its a 3500 but i am sure that makes little difference. yeah they lied not once but twice they also lied about the black book value which we later verified on-line. so we then spent two days grinding them down with a new set of offers based on our correct information. when they said they would give us the no-accident report the day we picked up the truck and handed over our money but not sooner than that it sent off some warning bells with us so we paid to pull the accident history and then both my husband and i promptly had catastrophic hissy fits. were definitely walking away from this deal now and were trying to decide if we should keep any kind of decent relationship with the dealer to try and get a deal on another truck they definitely have incentive to try to keep as happy or write a nasty letter to daimlerchrysler in the hopes that this dealer will lose their 5 star rating. but then again maybe its their policy to lie to customers just as long as we dont find out - and if we do just make sure we cant prove it so writing a letter would be a waste of time. perhaps the bbb ohhh...i dont know i am still soooo mad about all of this i cant even think straight..... thanks for your comments! paula azwiley1 wrote personally i would run just because the dealership lied but a ram 1500 with a cummins and frame rail damage would make me cautious. i was just about to buy a used truck 2004 dodge ram 4x4 diesel and just before we finalized the deal i found out it was in an accident even though the dealer said it was not - even in writing. when i obtained detailed claim information from the insurance company i found out it the front left and right rails had been repaired about 4 hours of labor total. apparently this truck was involved in an accident in a parking lot and had around $7000 in repairs. looked more like the previous owner rear-ended someone. while i know that buying a used vehicle with frame repair is usually a no-no is there anyway of knowing if the repair was done perfectly - so it will never develop faults in the drivetrain as a result or so it will not compromise safety in a future accident privacy laws prevent me from finding out who did the repairs. perhaps i should just run away now thanks paula boy you folks are just looking to get screwed arent why the hell would you continue to deal with a dealer that is dishonest id look elsewhere for a truck. .

From : dd sd we

i know of a 97 2x4 3500 ctd ex cab here in texarkana or a 96 4x4 ex cab 2500 ctd it is the same lot i got my 95 from if you like i will give you his number catch me here billyk@valornet.killall.com i was just about to buy a used truck 2004 dodge ram 4x4 diesel and just before we finalized the deal i found out it was in an accident even though the dealer said it was not - even in writing. when i obtained detailed claim information from the insurance company i found out it the front left and right rails had been repaired about 4 hours of labor total. apparently this truck was involved in an accident in a parking lot and had around $7000 in repairs. looked more like the previous owner rear-ended someone. while i know that buying a used vehicle with frame repair is usually a no-no is there anyway of knowing if the repair was done perfectly - so it will never develop faults in the drivetrain as a result or so it will not compromise safety in a future accident privacy laws prevent me from finding out who did the repairs. perhaps i should just run away now thanks paula .

From : lint radley

the bbb wont be your best bet probably - they have no governing ability and participation by the business is voluntary. i would check with your state or provinces government to see if theres some sort of licensing board for dealerships and if so contact them about the problem. i think that would get a lot more done after all who wants to get in trouble with the government ;- -lint pokee@shaw.ca wrote its a 3500 but i am sure that makes little difference. yeah they lied not once but twice they also lied about the black book value which we later verified on-line. so we then spent two days grinding them down with a new set of offers based on our correct information. when they said they would give us the no-accident report the day we picked up the truck and handed over our money but not sooner than that it sent off some warning bells with us so we paid to pull the accident history and then both my husband and i promptly had catastrophic hissy fits. were definitely walking away from this deal now and were trying to decide if we should keep any kind of decent relationship with the dealer to try and get a deal on another truck they definitely have incentive to try to keep as happy or write a nasty letter to daimlerchrysler in the hopes that this dealer will lose their 5 star rating. but then again maybe

From : Annonymous

roy wrote its a 3500 but i am sure that makes little difference. yeah they lied not once but twice they also lied about the black book value which we later verified on-line. so we then spent two days grinding them down with a new set of offers based on our correct information. when they said they would give us the no-accident report the day we picked up the truck and handed over our money but not sooner than that it sent off some warning bells with us so we paid to pull the accident history and then both my husband and i promptly had catastrophic hissy fits. were definitely walking away from this deal now and were trying to decide if we should keep any kind of decent relationship with the dealer to try and get a deal on another truck they definitely have incentive to try to keep as happy or write a nasty letter to daimlerchrysler in the hopes that this dealer will lose their 5 star rating. but then again maybe its their policy to lie to customers just as long as we dont find out - and if we do just make sure we cant prove it so writing a letter would be a waste of time. perhaps the bbb ohhh...i dont know i am still soooo mad about all of this i cant even think straight..... thanks for your comments! paula azwiley1 wrote personally i would run just because the dealership lied but a ram 1500 with a cummins and frame rail damage would make me cautious. i was just about to buy a used truck 2004 dodge ram 4x4 diesel and just before we finalized the deal i found out it was in an accident even though the dealer said it was not - even in writing. when i obtained detailed claim information from the insurance company i found out it the front left and right rails had been repaired about 4 hours of labor total. apparently this truck was involved in an accident in a parking lot and had around $7000 in repairs. looked more like the previous owner rear-ended someone. while i know that buying a used vehicle with frame repair is usually a no-no is there anyway of knowing if the repair was done perfectly - so it will never develop faults in the drivetrain as a result or so it will not compromise safety in a future accident privacy laws prevent me from finding out who did the repairs. perhaps i should just run away now thanks paula boy you folks are just looking to get screwed arent why the hell would you continue to deal with a dealer that is dishonest id look elsewhere for a truck. arent all dealers dishonest though i mean why are there so many used carsalesman jokes dishonestly is their policy. its up to the buyer to ensure they are getting a fair deal independent mechanical inspection accident report information black book value on-line carfax etc. etc. they are just the middle man really. i think everything coming out of a salespersons mouth is pretty much a lie most of the time - they are selling - so of course they have to tell you lies! if i could find the truck i want privately id do that but theres just none out there - and there hasnt been for the past several months. were looking for a 3500 ram diesel 4x4 with a manual transmission so its a much harder find. besides we want a dodge truck and there are only about 4 or 5 dealers in our local area. so if we cut this one out and its the biggest one that reduces our inventory by a huge amount. its really the only reason i am considering dealing with this scum again that and the minute possibility that they may want to try to make things right. does that make more sense or should i still run paula .

From : roy

roy wrote its a 3500 but i am sure that makes little difference. yeah they lied not once but twice they also lied about the black book value which we later verified on-line. so we then spent two days grinding them down with a new set of offers based on our correct information. when they said they would give us the no-accident report the day we picked up the truck and handed over our money but not sooner than that it sent off some warning bells with us so we paid to pull the accident history and then both my husband and i promptly had catastrophic hissy fits. were definitely walking away from this deal now and were trying to decide if we should keep any kind of decent relationship with the dealer to try and get a deal on another truck they definitely have incentive to try to keep as happy or write a nasty letter to daimlerchrysler in the hopes that this dealer will lose their 5 star rating. but then again maybe its their policy to lie to customers just as long as we dont find out - and if we do just make sure we cant prove it so writing a letter would be a waste of time. perhaps the bbb ohhh...i dont know i am still soooo mad about all of this i cant even think straight..... thanks for your comments! paula azwiley1 wrote personally i would run just because the dealership lied but a ram 1500 with a cummins and frame rail damage would make me cautious. i was just about to buy a used truck 2004 dodge ram 4x4 diesel and just before we finalized the deal i found out it was in an accident even though the dealer said it was not - even in writing. when i obtained detailed claim information from the insurance company i found out it the front left and right rails had been repaired about 4 hours of labor total. apparently this truck was involved in an accident in a parking lot and had around $7000 in repairs. looked more like the previous owner rear-ended someone. while i know that buying a used vehicle with frame repair is usually a no-no is there anyway of knowing if the repair was done perfectly - so it will never develop faults in the drivetrain as a result or so it will not compromise safety in a future accident privacy laws prevent me from finding out who did the repairs. perhaps i should just run away now thanks paula boy you folks are just looking to get screwed arent why the hell would you continue to deal with a dealer that is dishonest id look elsewhere for a truck. arent all dealers dishonest though i mean why are there so many used carsalesman jokes dishonestly is their policy. its up to the buyer to ensure they are getting a fair deal independent mechanical inspection accident report information black book value on-line carfax etc. etc. they are just the middle man really. i think everything coming out of a salespersons mouth is pretty much a lie most of the time - they are selling - so of course they have to tell you lies! if i could find the truck i want privately id do that but theres just none out there - and there hasnt been for the past several months. were looking for a 3500 ram diesel 4x4 with a manual transmission so its a much harder find. where are you located besides we want a dodge truck and there are only about 4 or 5 dealers in our local area. so if we cut this one out and its the biggest one that reduces our inventory by a huge amount. its really the only reason i am considering dealing with this scum again that and the minute possibility that they may want to try to make things right. i have a bridge i will sell you as well. does that make more sense or should i still run no!! yes!!! paula .

From : Annonymous

on sat 29 jul 2006 134658 gmt snoman admin@snoman.com wrote on sat 29 jul 2006 055634 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote how about when its long and full of shit i didnt ignore the facts i ignored your complete and utter bullshit story. got anything else to say or will you be insulting the collective intelligence again just got to get nasty huh. do it make you feel good yes you do ignore the fact because you think that putting a 1300 lb motor into a light duty truck frame makes it a semi tractor and you are kinda lost here. i drove dump trucks in 70s as summer jobs while going to college for engineering degree and they were power by what you would call wimpy gas motors yet they regulaly hauled gvws of 30 tons and more without fail and did a good job of it too. why because they had the frame tranny and gears to go with the loads. dodge uses same frame gas of diesel and you choice to ignore the effect of this extra weight in a crash and what it can do to frame shows to total lack of understanding and who really is clueless. be it a 10 or 20 mph impact the frame will be twisted and torque with twice the energy on impact for the ctd mass vs a gas motor and that energy has to go somewhere. this is not about diesel sucks which you claim it is about the physics here and the damage possible by it. grow up and get a life! ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com snoman claming to know engineering and physics is different than knowing engineering and physics. you got the claiming part down it is just the knowing part that you got all messed up. for me the knowing part is what matters. that is why you dont. .

From : max dodge

just got to get nasty huh. do it make you feel good stated facts are not nasty unless you dont like them. yes you do ignore the fact because you think that putting a 1300 lb motor into a light duty truck frame makes it a semi tractor and you are kinda lost here. well i think its you who are lost... its an 1100 lb engine and the truck frame was designed with the engine in mind. regardless of the frame classification itll take far more than what the engine weighs. ive had 7000 lbs in the bed of the truck i doubt the 1100 lb engine will do anything to the frame that the sand bags or shingles did not. i drove dump trucks in 70s as summer jobs while going to college for engineering degree and they were power by what you would call wimpy gas motors yet they regulaly hauled gvws of 30 tons and more without fail and did a good job of it too. why because they had the frame tranny and gears to go with the loads. sfw dodge uses same frame gas of diesel and you choice to ignore the effect of this extra weight in a crash and what it can do to frame shows to total lack of understanding and who really is clueless. they use the same frame because its designed for the diesel thus it will handle the gasoline engine easily. be it a 10 or 20 mph impact the frame will be twisted and torque with twice the energy on impact for the ctd mass vs a gas motor and that energy has to go somewhere. this is not about diesel sucks which you claim it is about the physics here and the damage possible by it. the key word here is possible. its possible in any scenario to have massive damage due to collision. however it is not possible to have massive damage simply because of the engine mounted on the frame. grow up and get a life! sage advice for one who cannot state a straight fact to save his own ass. -- max there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author on sat 29 jul 2006 055634 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote how about when its long and full of shit i didnt ignore the facts i ignored your complete and utter bullshit story. got anything else to say or will you be insulting the collective intelligence again just got to get nasty huh. do it make you feel good yes you do ignore the fact because you think that putting a 1300 lb motor into a light duty truck frame makes it a semi tractor and you are kinda lost here. i drove dump trucks in 70s as summer jobs while going to college for engineering degree and they were power by what you would call wimpy gas motors yet they regulaly hauled gvws of 30 tons and more without fail and did a good job of it too. why because they had the frame tranny and gears to go with the loads. dodge uses same frame gas of diesel and you choice to ignore the effect of this extra weight in a crash and what it can do to frame shows to total lack of understanding and who really is clueless. be it a 10 or 20 mph impact the frame will be twisted and torque with twice the energy on impact for the ctd mass vs a gas motor and that energy has to go somewhere. this is not about diesel sucks which you claim it is about the physics here and the damage possible by it. grow up and get a life! ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .

From : advocate

just as long as we dont find out - and if we do just make sure we cant prove it so writing a letter would be a waste of time. perhaps the bbb ohhh...i dont know i am still soooo mad about all of this i cant even think straight..... thanks for your comments! paula azwiley1 wrote personally i would run just because the dealership lied but a ram 1500 with a cummins and frame rail damage would make me cautious. i was just about to buy a used truck 2004 dodge ram 4x4 diesel and just before we finalized the deal i found out it was in an accident even though the dealer said it was not - even in writing. when i obtained detailed claim information from the insurance company i found out it the front left and right rails had been repaired about 4 hours of labor total. apparently this truck was involved in an accident in a parking lot and had around $7000 in repairs. looked more like the previous owner rear-ended someone. while i know that buying a used vehicle with frame repair is usually a no-no is there anyway of knowing if the repair was done perfectly - so it will never develop faults in the drivetrain as a result or so it will not compromise safety in a future accident privacy laws prevent me from finding out who did the repairs. perhaps i should just run away now thanks paula . 222 320225 owoyg.1104400$xm3.1088682@attbis21 arent all dealers dishonest though i mean why are there so many used carsalesman jokes dishonestly is their policy. its up to the buyer to ensure they are getting a fair deal independent mechanical inspection accident report information black book value on-line carfax etc. etc. they are just the middle man really. i think everything coming out of a salespersons mouth is pretty much a lie most of the time - they are selling - so of course they have to tell you lies! if i could find the truck i want privately id do that but theres just none out there - and there hasnt been for the past several months. were looking for a 3500 ram diesel 4x4 with a manual transmission so its a much harder find. besides we want a dodge truck and there are only about 4 or 5 dealers in our local area. so if we cut this one out and its the biggest one that reduces our inventory by a huge amount. its really the only reason i am considering dealing with this scum again that and the minute possibility that they may want to try to make things right. does that make more sense or should i still run no not all dealers are dishonest. some can be trusted...you can justify this bad deal till you are blue in the face. if you want to buy this vehicle from a dealer that out right lied to you go for it. personally im not afraid to buy a vehicle that has been hit and fixed correctly but i would demand quite alot off of retail. i wouldnt buy this one though plus i wouldnt buy any vehicle from this dealer. he could have said this vehicle has been in an accident but it has been fixed correctly. what would have been so hard about saying that .

From : snoman

on 28 jul 2006 001755 -0700 pokee@shaw.ca wrote besides we want a dodge truck and there are only about 4 or 5 dealers in our local area. so if we cut this one out and its the biggest one that reduces our inventory by a huge amount. its really the only reason i am considering dealing with this scum again that and the minute possibility that they may want to try to make things right. does that make more sense or should i still run given that is it a cummins and the the engine is very heavy the damage to frame was likely related to engine mounting in frame rails which weakened it. unless they replaced the frame in truck i would run not walk for this deal and this dealer because they are not playing it striagth at all and should be avoided at all costs. all used car salesman are a bit shadey but some more than others. whay do you think that 94 is on the lot anyway because how ever had it did not want it anymore from damage either. it is possible that deal may not have known about damage but you both know now for sure. ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .

From : max dodge

given that is it a cummins and the the engine is very heavy the damage to frame was likely related to engine mounting in frame rails which weakened it. wrong!!! my cummins is mounted to a frame and the frame is undamaged. what damaged the frame on the truck in question is unknown but it sure as hell wasnt the engine mounts. further the engine mounts did not weaken the frame. unless they replaced the frame in truck i would run not walk for this deal and this dealer because they are not playing it striagth at all and should be avoided at all costs. jeez i have to agree here...... all used car salesman are a bit shadey but some more than others. whay do you think that 94 is on the lot anyway because how ever had it did not want it anymore from damage either. it is possible that deal may not have known about damage but you both know now for sure. yup... run screaming from this truck. -- max there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author on 28 jul 2006 001755 -0700 pokee@shaw.ca wrote besides we want a dodge truck and there are only about 4 or 5 dealers in our local area. so if we cut this one out and its the biggest one that reduces our inventory by a huge amount. its really the only reason i am considering dealing with this scum again that and the minute possibility that they may want to try to make things right. does that make more sense or should i still run given that is it a cummins and the the engine is very heavy the damage to frame was likely related to engine mounting in frame rails which weakened it. unless they replaced the frame in truck i would run not walk for this deal and this dealer because they are not playing it striagth at all and should be avoided at all costs. all used car salesman are a bit shadey but some more than others. whay do you think that 94 is on the lot anyway because how ever had it did not want it anymore from damage either. it is possible that deal may not have known about damage but you both know now for sure. ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .

From : snoman

on fri 28 jul 2006 211451 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote wrong!!! my cummins is mounted to a frame and the frame is undamaged. what damaged the frame on the truck in question is unknown but it sure as hell wasnt the engine mounts. further the engine mounts did not weaken the frame. yours was not in the wreck and the engine is mounted to the main frame in one way or another as its masses about twice the weight of a gas engine will increase chance or frame damage in a wreck because of the momentemum of engine is much larger to stop. it has the same frame as a gas truck so in the same impact the is a higher potenail for frame damage and weaking. there are those that think that this added mass is transparent though while it is not. in a wreck it has to be stopped too and unless engine impacts something itself to will place the force to stop it on the frame. if you rear end someone at 20 the stored monemtum in the ctd is the same to stiop in relation to frame as a 30 mph impact with a gas engine. simple physics. 4 hours of straightening work on frame means it was damaged a good bit and weakened in the process beacuse once metal is driven to yeild this why its strength is diminished unless it is retreated which is impaossible to do with frame in truck as work require a serious shop to do it too. ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .

From : snoman

on fri 28 jul 2006 224441 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote spare us the long explanation i know when it is long and technical. it escapes you so you discount it. it does not change the facts no the less even if you choose to ignore them ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .

From : max dodge

go directly to the attorney general of the state or province they can tell you who will deal with that sort of thing. what that dealer did was nothing short of bait and switch... pay us for the truck then well let you in on the secrets.... -- max there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author the bbb wont be your best bet probably - they have no governing ability and participation by the business is voluntary. i would check with your state or provinces government to see if theres some sort of licensing board for dealerships and if so contact them about the problem. i think that would get a lot more done after all who wants to get in trouble with the government ;- -lint pokee@shaw.ca wrote its a 3500 but i am sure that makes little difference. yeah they lied not once but twice they also lied about the black book value which we later verified on-line. so we then spent two days grinding them down with a new set of offers based on our correct information. when they said they would give us the no-accident report the day we picked up the truck and handed over our money but not sooner than that it sent off some warning bells with us so we paid to pull the accident history and then both my husband and i promptly had catastrophic hissy fits. were definitely walking away from this deal now and were trying to decide if we should keep any kind of decent relationship with the dealer to try and get a deal on another truck they definitely have incentive to try to keep as happy or write a nasty letter to daimlerchrysler in the hopes that this dealer will lose their 5 star rating. but then again maybe its their policy to lie to customers just as long as we dont find out - and if we do just make sure we cant prove it so writing a letter would be a waste of time. perhaps the bbb ohhh...i dont know i am still soooo mad about all of this i cant even think straight..... thanks for your comments! paula azwiley1 wrote personally i would run just because the dealership lied but a ram 1500 with a cummins and frame rail damage would make me cautious. i was just about to buy a used truck 2004 dodge ram 4x4 diesel and just before we finalized the deal i found out it was in an accident even though the dealer said it was not - even in writing. when i obtained detailed claim information from the insurance company i found out it the front left and right rails had been repaired about 4 hours of labor total. apparently this truck was involved in an accident in a parking lot and had around $7000 in repairs. looked more like the previous owner rear-ended someone. while i know that buying a used vehicle with frame repair is usually a no-no is there anyway of knowing if the repair was done perfectly - so it will never develop faults in the drivetrain as a result or so it will not compromise safety in a future accident privacy laws prevent me from finding out who did the repairs. perhaps i should just run away now thanks paula .

From : max dodge

spare us the long explanations. you said the diesel was why there was extensive frame damage. its simply not so. the frame is designed to handle the weight of the diesel the fact that it has gasoline engines as options is irrelevant to the frame construction as its again.. designed for the load of the diesel. what damamged the frame was the impact. if your claims were correct my aerial act in my 2000 where it was well over 4 feet in the air would have ripped the engine loose. it did not. please drop the diesel sucks bias and get a grip on reality. -- max there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author on fri 28 jul 2006 211451 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote wrong!!! my cummins is mounted to a frame and the frame is undamaged. what damaged the frame on the truck in question is unknown but it sure as hell wasnt the engine mounts. further the engine mounts did not weaken the frame. yours was not in the wreck and the engine is mounted to the main frame in one way or another as its masses about twice the weight of a gas engine will increase chance or frame damage in a wreck because of the momentemum of engine is much larger to stop. it has the same frame as a gas truck so in the same impact the is a higher potenail for frame damage and weaking. there are those that think that this added mass is transparent though while it is not. in a wreck it has to be stopped too and unless engine impacts something itself to will place the force to stop it on the frame. if you rear end someone at 20 the stored monemtum in the ctd is the same to stiop in relation to frame as a 30 mph impact with a gas engine. simple physics. 4 hours of straightening work on frame means it was damaged a good bit and weakened in the process beacuse once metal is driven to yeild this why its strength is diminished unless it is retreated which is impaossible to do with frame in truck as work require a serious shop to do it too. ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .

From : jmc

suddenly without warning max dodge exclaimed 29-jul-06 644 am go directly to the attorney general of the state or province they can tell you who will deal with that sort of thing. what that dealer did was nothing short of bait and switch... pay us for the truck then well let you in on the secrets.... i thought bait and switch was pay us for this expensive thing and well sell you this other cheaper thing instead id definitely follow your advice. good case too sounds like the op has the whole thing well documented. jmc .

From : denny

on fri 28 jul 2006 224441 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote spare us the long explanation i know when it is long and technical. it escapes you so you discount it. it does not change the facts no the less even if you choose to ignore them ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com no its more like you cant write worth a shit and ramble on and on worse than a six year old. denny .

From : chris thompson

suddenly without warning max dodge exclaimed 29-jul-06 644 am go directly to the attorney general of the state or province they can tell you who will deal with that sort of thing. what that dealer did was nothing short of bait and switch... pay us for the truck then well let you in on the secrets.... i thought bait and switch was pay us for this expensive thing and well sell you this other cheaper thing instead id definitely follow your advice. good case too sounds like the op has the whole thing well documented. jmc i would also file a complaint with the bbb although they have no teeth someone researching who to do business can see that there has been complaints about dishonest business practices against said company. these complaints list as resolved or unresolved in the bbb files. -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs. .

From : max dodge

i know when it is long and technical. it escapes you so you discount it. it does not change the facts no the less even if you choose to ignore them how about when its long and full of shit i didnt ignore the facts i ignored your complete and utter bullshit story. got anything else to say or will you be insulting the collective intelligence again -- max there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author on fri 28 jul 2006 224441 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote spare us the long explanation i know when it is long and technical. it escapes you so you discount it. it does not change the facts no the less even if you choose to ignore them ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .

From : max dodge

i thought bait and switch was pay us for this expensive thing and well sell you this other cheaper thing instead thats pretty much what theyve asked him to do.... buy this expensive truck and well sell you this damaged not so expensive truck. the ags office is where all of this dealer sort of thing ends up in pa i figure its gotta be a good place to start elsewhere. documentation is the key... and the op is in the drivers seat on this. i smell a free truck...... -- max there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author suddenly without warning max dodge exclaimed 29-jul-06 644 am go directly to the attorney general of the state or province they can tell you who will deal with that sort of thing. what that dealer did was nothing short of bait and switch... pay us for the truck then well let you in on the secrets.... i thought bait and switch was pay us for this expensive thing and well sell you this other cheaper thing instead id definitely follow your advice. good case too sounds like the op has the whole thing well documented. jmc .

From : js

snoman wrote potenail i have a new word impaossible i have two new words. js .

From : tbone

arent all dealers dishonest though i mean why are there so many used carsalesman jokes dishonestly is their policy. its up to the buyer to ensure they are getting a fair deal independent mechanical inspection accident report information black book value on-line carfax etc. etc. they are just the middle man really. i think everything coming out of a salespersons mouth is pretty much a lie most of the time - they are selling - so of course they have to tell you lies! if i could find the truck i want privately id do that but theres just none out there - and there hasnt been for the past several months. were looking for a 3500 ram diesel 4x4 with a manual transmission so its a much harder find. besides we want a dodge truck and there are only about 4 or 5 dealers in our local area. so if we cut this one out and its the biggest one that reduces our inventory by a huge amount. its really the only reason i am considering dealing with this scum again that and the minute possibility that they may want to try to make things right. does that make more sense or should i still run no not all dealers are dishonest. some can be trusted...you can justify this bad deal till you are blue in the face. if you want to buy this vehicle from a dealer that out right lied to you go for it. personally im not afraid to buy a vehicle that has been hit and fixed correctly but i would demand quite alot off of retail. i wouldnt buy this one though plus i wouldnt buy any vehicle from this dealer. he could have said this vehicle has been in an accident but it has been fixed correctly. what would have been so hard about saying that it would have been hard on his wallet because then he would probably have to lower the price some after admitting that this truck has had some structural damage. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

go directly to the attorney general of the state or province they can tell you who will deal with that sort of thing. what that dealer did was nothing short of bait and switch... pay us for the truck then well let you in on the secrets.... that is not a bait and switch max. a bait and switch is when they present a deal that simply cannot be passed up and when you go for it they then say that for whatever reason this deal is no longer available but we do have this other deal that is almost as good maybe even better when in reality the second deal is far less. what they are doing is flat out lying. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : max dodge

that is not a bait and switch max. a bait and switch is when they present a deal that simply cannot be passed up sorta like a great price on the truck of their dreams and when you go for it they then say that for whatever reason this deal is no longer available but we do have this other deal that is almost as good maybe even better when in reality the second deal is far less. right like when the dealer lowers the price on another truck to make the sale after being informed of the junk truck. were awfully sorry can we offer this other truck to you at a better price then the buyer spends in haste because they are all psyched up to make a purchase. sure because we need a truck and we have cash in hand. what they are doing is flat out lying. yeah like they do in a bait and switch oops sorry forgot that you know it all. ever been in the used car business or just a buyer -- max there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author go directly to the attorney general of the state or province they can tell you who will deal with that sort of thing. what that dealer did was nothing short of bait and switch... pay us for the truck then well let you in on the secrets.... that is not a bait and switch max. a bait and switch is when they present a deal that simply cannot be passed up and when you go for it they then say that for whatever reason this deal is no longer available but we do have this other deal that is almost as good maybe even better when in reality the second deal is far less. what they are doing is flat out lying. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

that is not a bait and switch max. a bait and switch is when they present a deal that simply cannot be passed up sorta like a great price on the truck of their dreams yea but in this case they intended to sell them that particular truck for the quoted price. in a bait and switch the item used for the bait is never the one to be sold or at least never at the initial deal. and when you go for it they then say that for whatever reason this deal is no longer available but we do have this other deal that is almost as good maybe even better when in reality the second deal is far less. right like when the dealer lowers the price on another truck to make the sale after being informed of the junk truck. are we rewriting history here the op never said that the dealer offered them a different truck. were awfully sorry can we offer this other truck to you at a better price and that would be terrific if it happened that way but it didnt. then the buyer spends in haste because they are all psyched up to make a purchase. sure because we need a truck and we have cash in hand. once again a good story but has nothing to do with the ops situation. what they are doing is flat out lying. yeah like they do in a bait and switch but the difference is what they are lying about. in a bait and switch they mislead the customer about the deal but in this case they were lying about the vehicle. oops sorry forgot that you know it all. not all but once again more than you. ever been in the used car business or just a buyer i have never bought a used car from a dealer but that doesnt mean that i dont understand how it works from both sides. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : max dodge

ever been in the used car business or just a buyer i have never bought a used car from a dealer but that doesnt mean that i dont understand how it works from both sides. actually thats exactly what it means. nuff said. -- max there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author that is not a bait and switch max. a bait and switch is when they present a deal that simply cannot be passed up sorta like a great price on the truck of their dreams yea but in this case they intended to sell them that particular truck for the quoted price. in a bait and switch the item used for the bait is never the one to be sold or at least never at the initial deal. and when you go for it they then say that for whatever reason this deal is no longer available but we do have this other deal that is almost as good maybe even better when in reality the second deal is far less. right like when the dealer lowers the price on another truck to make the sale after being informed of the junk truck. are we rewriting history here the op never said that the dealer offered them a different truck. were awfully sorry can we offer this other truck to you at a better price and that would be terrific if it happened that way but it didnt. then the buyer spends in haste because they are all psyched up to make a purchase. sure because we need a truck and we have cash in hand. once again a good story but has nothing to do with the ops situation. what they are doing is flat out lying. yeah like they do in a bait and switch but the difference is what they are lying about. in a bait and switch they mislead the customer about the deal but in this case they were lying about the vehicle. oops sorry forgot that you know it all. not all but once again more than you. ever been in the used car business or just a buyer i have never bought a used car from a dealer but that doesnt mean that i dont understand how it works from both sides. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : snoman

on sat 29 jul 2006 055634 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote how about when its long and full of shit i didnt ignore the facts i ignored your complete and utter bullshit story. got anything else to say or will you be insulting the collective intelligence again just got to get nasty huh. do it make you feel good yes you do ignore the fact because you think that putting a 1300 lb motor into a light duty truck frame makes it a semi tractor and you are kinda lost here. i drove dump trucks in 70s as summer jobs while going to college for engineering degree and they were power by what you would call wimpy gas motors yet they regulaly hauled gvws of 30 tons and more without fail and did a good job of it too. why because they had the frame tranny and gears to go with the loads. dodge uses same frame gas of diesel and you choice to ignore the effect of this extra weight in a crash and what it can do to frame shows to total lack of understanding and who really is clueless. be it a 10 or 20 mph impact the frame will be twisted and torque with twice the energy on impact for the ctd mass vs a gas motor and that energy has to go somewhere. this is not about diesel sucks which you claim it is about the physics here and the damage possible by it. grow up and get a life! ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .

From : tbone

ever been in the used car business or just a buyer i have never bought a used car from a dealer but that doesnt mean that i dont understand how it works from both sides. actually thats exactly what it means. nuff said. actually it means nothing at all as is the case with many of your posts. perhaps there is a reason why i never bought a used car from a dealer. the fact that you didnt address any of my responses besides this one is what really says it all but feel free to respond again we could all use the laugh. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .