Diesel cars are coming back
From : geekboy
Q: with ultra-clean fuel available at pumps diesel cars are re-entering the u.s. new york cnnmoney.com -- with rising gas prices diesel cars and suvs are gearing up for a major american comeback after a brief appearance 25 years ago. but if all you remember are the smell and noise you might not recognize the new leaner cleaner versions. back in the early 1980s 80 percent of the cars mercedes-benz sold in the u.s. were diesel powered. general motors sold diesel oldsmobiles and cadillacs. the reason then was obvious adjusted for inflation the cost of gasoline then was about $3.15 a gallon. buyers were looking for a more fuel-efficient way to drive. diesel engines were noisy they were slow i drove my aunts mercedes..seemed like 2 minutes to get to 60 and they puffed out nasty polluting smoke. but they used much less fuel than gasoline engines so buyers were willing to put up with the downsides. as gas prices went back down relative to other costs and environmental regulations became stricter the tide of diesels rolled back across the atlantic leaving only memories of clanky foul smelling diesel cars. today while half the cars sold in europe are diesels diesel market share in the u.s. is about 3.5 percent and thats mostly pick-ups according to r.l. polk & co. with a hungry european market to feed diesel development has continued creating turbocharged diesel engines that perform better and pollute less. todays diesel cars are virtually indistinguishable from their gasoline-burning siblings. except they use a lot less fuel.............. http//www.cnn.com/2007/autos/05/01/diesels/index.html .
Replies:
From : snoman
on thu 3 may 2007 144559 -0500 geekboy geeekguy@haaa.com wrote todays diesel cars are virtually indistinguishable from their gasoline-burning siblings. except they use a lot less fuel......... not quite true as they are nasty nox generators. so bad that even if you reduce their nox emission 75% they still exceed gas nox by a wide margin. until recently they can basically been unregulated in nox emissions. stricter controls will cramp it more in future. ----------------- thesnoman.com .
From : chris thompson
on thu 03 may 2007 210417 +0000 snoman wrote on thu 3 may 2007 144559 -0500 geekboy geeekguy@haaa.com wrote todays diesel cars are virtually indistinguishable from their gasoline-burning siblings. except they use a lot less fuel......... not quite true as they are nasty nox generators. so bad that even if you reduce their nox emission 75% they still exceed gas nox by a wide margin. until recently they can basically been unregulated in nox emissions. stricter controls will cramp it more in future. ----------------- thesnoman.com dude we get it. you hate diesels. -- chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd .
From : aarcuda69062
snoman admin@snoman.com wrote car makers could make cars with much higher compression with better power and mpg and better efficency you just described a diesel. .
From : aarcuda69062
snoman admin@snoman.com wrote cng and propane. still sucks wrt energy density. forget having a usable trunk or cargo bed. infrastructure still lacking forget taking a cross country trip. btdt. .
From : snoman
on thu 03 may 2007 203829 -0400 chris thompson kf4drr-nospam@alltel.net wrote dude we get it. you hate diesels no you miss the point i hate engine that are dirty and smelly at times. if gas engine had as few emission restrictions as diesels have had they would be different animals today. the point i am making and that diesel lovers hate to talk about when their ego is deflated is that they are going to have to comply in future and clean up their act which is going to increase that purchase and maintainance price in future and when you do the bottom line where you add up purchase price fuel maintainance and such over life of vehicle it will likely not save you a dime and likely cost you more out of your pocket to own and operate. also the future lays with engines that will be able to run gas alchol grain or coal based biobutanol cng propane and p-series fuel and this will be gas style motors. diesel has a very limited diet potentail and bio diesel offers no long term solution for masses though some like to think otherwise. ----------------- thesnoman.com .
From : chris thompson
on fri 04 may 2007 105929 +0000 snoman wrote on thu 03 may 2007 203829 -0400 chris thompson kf4drr-nospam@alltel.net wrote dude we get it. you hate diesels no you miss the point i hate engine that are dirty and smelly at times. if gas engine had as few emission restrictions as diesels have had they would be different animals today. the point i am making and that diesel lovers hate to talk about when their ego is deflated is that they are going to have to comply in future and clean up their act which is going to increase that purchase and maintainance price in future and when you do the bottom line where you add up purchase price fuel maintainance and such over life of vehicle it will likely not save you a dime and likely cost you more out of your pocket to own and operate. also the future lays with engines that will be able to run gas alchol grain or coal based biobutanol cng propane and p-series fuel and this will be gas style motors. diesel has a very limited diet potentail and bio diesel offers no long term solution for masses though some like to think otherwise. ----------------- thesnoman.com now your talking major engine redesign your gas burner will run on these fuels as the engines in cars today will not be fully efficient with these fuels as the engines are not built to run those fuels. if you want a engine to be efficient you build it to run on a fuel not adapt it to run a fuel. your propane/cng fuels require a different distribution infrastructure that isnt in place. this costs money to put in place and who do you think is going to pay for that infrastructure and yes i am one of the people who like bio for a resource im not saying stop researching anything else but i do see it as a much more viable alternative than cng. because of the infrastructure and engine requirements to run it at full efficiency. as i have stated before you put bio in an existing truck it runs with little change in performance mine does. but you put alcohol in your gasser and the performance/mpg drops huge. -- chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd .
From : max dodge
no you miss the point i hate engine that are dirty and smelly at times. then you hate all engines. if gas engine had as few emission restrictions as diesels have had they would be different animals today. the reason the diesels had fewer restrictions in the past was because there were fewer of them. the new restrictions are quite a bit tighter especially for the fuel. the point i am making and that diesel lovers hate to talk about when their ego is deflated is that they are going to have to comply in future and clean up their act sorry had you not noticed the past 10 years of cummins engines for otr applications all of them are using the interact system and all are electronically controlled. thus they have been clean for a number of years. prior to that diesel emissions were mainly particulate. as such a gasoline engined car driving on a dirt or a dirty road road would stir up more dust. take a look and youll find that diesel fuel has always burned cleaner than gasoline when it comes to most anything they sniff for at the tailpipe. this assumes proper tune to the engine of course. which is going to increase that purchase and maintainance price in future actually not all that much. the cummins adds a significant amount to the price of a truck but then so did the v10 and the hemi isnt much better. however this additional price can be recovered in the higher resale value. and when you do the bottom line where you add up purchase price fuel maintainance and such over life of vehicle it will likely not save you a dime and likely cost you more out of your pocket to own and operate. false. a diesel wants filter changes and oil changes. filters are cheap and easily changed. a gasoline engine wants sparkplugs coils wires and filters and oil changes. furthermore the oil change intervals on the gassers are shorter. time to install the plugs and wires can add up in labor charges especially if you own one of those nifty ford triton engines. also the future lays with engines that will be able to run gas alchol grain or coal based biobutanol cng propane and p-series fuel and this will be gas style motors. diesel has a very limited diet potentail and bio diesel offers no long term solution for masses though some like to think otherwise. you are sadly misinformed. in fact you obviously dont know that one safety hazard of owning a diesel for industrial applications is the need for an auto-shutdown device. this prevents the engine from over-revving in the event that combustible materials are sucked into the engine such as gasoline fumes chemical vapors or even coal dust. a diesel will burn diesel no.2 as well as a wide range of similar fuels such as kero jp home heating oil. further it will run on cng/propane/fuel vapor or any liquid fuel that could be made to lubricate the injection system. again you are simply talking out your ass. -- max join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about. there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author on thu 03 may 2007 203829 -0400 chris thompson kf4drr-nospam@alltel.net wrote dude we get it. you hate diesels no you miss the point i hate engine that are dirty and smelly at times. if gas engine had as few emission restrictions as diesels have had they would be different animals today. the point i am making and that diesel lovers hate to talk about when their ego is deflated is that they are going to have to comply in future and clean up their act which is going to increase that purchase and maintainance price in future and when you do the bottom line where you add up purchase price fuel maintainance and such over life of vehicle it will likely not save you a dime and likely cost you more out of your pocket to own and operate. also the future lays with engines that will be able to run gas alchol grain or coal based biobutanol cng propane and p-series fuel and this will be gas style motors. diesel has a very limited diet potentail and bio diesel offers no long term solution for masses though some like to think otherwise. ----------------- thesnoman.com .
From : snoman
on fri 04 may 2007 074059 -0400 chris thompson kf4drr-nospam@alltel.net wrote now your talking major engine redesign your gas burner will run on these fuels as the engines in cars today will not be fully efficient with these fuels as the engines are not built to run those fuels. you are wrong here. a gas engine as it sits can run on biobutanol stock just needs different fuel line hose or aclhol compatable ones and p-series fuel will run too pentane based. alchol fuel can run as well with bigger injectors and proper hoses. alchols does better with higher cr but americas love for 87 limits that. biobutanol and p-series fuel need no compression changes and while bio butanol uses a fermantation process simular to ethanol it has only about 10% less btu per gallon than gas while ethanol has about 40% less. it will be a few years before you see biobutanol and p-series in volume but the whole science behind them is that they will work in a current motor with little tweaking if any and run well and biobutanol does not have the issues with cold weather starting that ethanol does. nor will p-series. as far as cng or propane again they can work in a current motor with a change of fuel feed to engine but they can really shine with higher conpression as again we are strangled by this 87 octane thing. if they would take 87 of the market phase it out and go to one grade of fuel of 93 octane or so kinda like a diesel has one basic grade car makers could make cars with much higher compression with better power and mpg and better efficency with fuels such as alchol cng and propane. the funny part is 87 octane is making fuel cruch worse because it force less effiecnt engine design which require more fuel to do same job but most do not realize this. also if they sold only 93 octane then they could use other tanks for other kinds of fuel. ----------------- thesnoman.com .
From : aarcuda69062
snoman admin@snoman.com wrote on thu 03 may 2007 203829 -0400 chris thompson kf4drr-nospam@alltel.net wrote dude we get it. you hate diesels no you miss the point i hate engine that are dirty and smelly at times. strange statement coming from someone who has bragged on numerous occasions that he has the ignition timing jacked up on his gas engined truck. your above statement should read; i hate engine that are dirty and smelly at times unless it fits my personal agenda. if gas engine had as few emission restrictions as diesels have had they would be different animals today. name one emissions component in current use that hampers a gasoline fueled engines performance or driveability. fact is; it is emissions regulations that forced technology forward to the point that driveability and reliability today couldnt even have been dreamed of pre-emissions control or even 25 years ago. the point i am making and that diesel lovers hate to talk about when their ego is deflated is that they are going to have to comply in future and clean up their act my guess is; theyll do it before you do. which is going to increase that purchase and maintainance price in future and when you do the bottom line where you add up purchase price fuel maintainance and such over life of vehicle it will likely not save you a dime and likely cost you more out of your pocket to own and operate. price out a spark plug for a 5 valve triton engine lately last time i checked they were $29.00. multiply by 8 add labor. lets not forget their habit for eating ignition coils times eight. also the future lays with engines that will be able to run gas alchol grain or coal based biobutanol cng propane and p-series fuel and this will be gas style motors. diesel has a very limited diet potentail and bio diesel offers no long term solution for masses though some like to think otherwise. youve always thought otherwise thats what makes you the class clown. .
From : Annonymous
on fri 04 may 2007 125940 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote no you miss the point i hate engine that are dirty and smelly at times. then you hate all engines. hey i just said that. if gas engine had as few emission restrictions as diesels have had they would be different animals today. the reason the diesels had fewer restrictions in the past was because there were fewer of them. the new restrictions are quite a bit tighter especially for the fuel. the point i am making and that diesel lovers hate to talk about when their ego is deflated is that they are going to have to comply in future and clean up their act sorry had you not noticed the past 10 years of cummins engines for otr applications all of them are using the interact system and all are electronically controlled. thus they have been clean for a number of years. prior to that diesel emissions were mainly particulate. as such a gasoline engined car driving on a dirt or a dirty road road would stir up more dust. take a look and youll find that diesel fuel has always burned cleaner than gasoline when it comes to most anything they sniff for at the tailpipe. this assumes proper tune to the engine of course. which is going to increase that purchase and maintainance price in future actually not all that much. the cummins adds a significant amount to the price of a truck but then so did the v10 and the hemi isnt much better. however this additional price can be recovered in the higher resale value. and when you do the bottom line where you add up purchase price fuel maintainance and such over life of vehicle it will likely not save you a dime and likely cost you more out of your pocket to own and operate. false. a diesel wants filter changes and oil changes. filters are cheap and easily changed. a gasoline engine wants sparkplugs coils wires and filters and oil changes. furthermore the oil change intervals on the gassers are shorter. time to install the plugs and wires can add up in labor charges especially if you own one of those nifty ford triton engines. also the future lays with engines that will be able to run gas alchol grain or coal based biobutanol cng propane and p-series fuel and this will be gas style motors. diesel has a very limited diet potentail and bio diesel offers no long term solution for masses though some like to think otherwise. you are sadly misinformed. in fact you obviously dont know that one safety hazard of owning a diesel for industrial applications is the need for an auto-shutdown device. this prevents the engine from over-revving in the event that combustible materials are sucked into the engine such as gasoline fumes chemical vapors or even coal dust. a diesel will burn diesel no.2 as well as a wide range of similar fuels such as kero jp home heating oil. further it will run on cng/propane/fuel vapor or any liquid fuel that could be made to lubricate the injection system. again you are simply talking out your ass. .
From : snoman
on fri 04 may 2007 125940 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote no you miss the point i hate engine that are dirty and smelly at times. then you hate all engines. if gas engine had as few emission restrictions as diesels have had they would be different animals today. the reason the diesels had fewer restrictions in the past was because there were fewer of them. the new restrictions are quite a bit tighter especially for the fuel. the reason they did not have them is because they played the fuel card too claiming sulpher in fuel would negate emission control and they might not have added increased restriction now had not detriot exploited this loophole for profit. the point i am making and that diesel lovers hate to talk about when their ego is deflated is that they are going to have to comply in future and clean up their act sorry had you not noticed the past 10 years of cummins engines for otr applications all of them are using the interact system and all are electronically controlled. thus they have been clean for a number of years. prior to that diesel emissions were mainly particulate. as such a gasoline engined car driving on a dirt or a dirty road road would stir up more dust. take a look and youll find that diesel fuel has always burned cleaner than gasoline when it comes to most anything they sniff for at the tailpipe. this assumes proper tune to the engine of course. you are mistaken here. diesel have always been low on hc and co but a lost cause with nox up to 20 times worse than gas at times because there was no nox limit on them. also what in misleading about diesel emissions is that they move a lot more air through them so say 30 ppm or hc on them is actually a lot higher than 30 ppm on a gas motor and the higher air flow dilutes the ppm but not gpm grams per mile. they have also had a long running battle with suspended particulates and will it is improving it is a polutent that is not a problem with a gas motor. if diesel had been follow same rules as gas motors have for year they would no be in wide use in suvs today because of the cost of compliance. which is going to increase that purchase and maintainance price in future actually not all that much. the cummins adds a significant amount to the price of a truck but then so did the v10 and the hemi isnt much better. however this additional price can be recovered in the higher resale value. this is highly debatedable because around here anyway used one are not selling well nor are new ones. also given incentive on new truck a few year old diesel is no a asset at trade in. i have a friend that has a 2005 that he paided 45k for that is loaded but he is tired of living with it and its payment and the savings that never materialized as want to get rid of it but they will not even give him 25k for it and it is cherry with only 30k miles on it. because peopleare buy cheaper gas trucks new here so you theory on you get more is highly debateable. and when you do the bottom line where you add up purchase price fuel maintainance and such over life of vehicle it will likely not save you a dime and likely cost you more out of your pocket to own and operate. false. a diesel wants filter changes and oil changes. filters are cheap and easily changed. a gasoline engine wants sparkplugs coils wires and filters and oil changes. furthermore the oil change intervals on the gassers are shorter. time to install the plugs and wires can add up in labor charges especially if you own one of those nifty ford triton engines. false diesel filters generally cost more and do not foget fuel filter changes too and it takes a lot more oil in crankcase too so you can change oil even more often in a gas motor than diesl and still pay less. next on plugs and wires well they can last 50 to 100 k any the money you saved on oil change will easily pay for this and they are real easy and cheap to fix. when you diesel has problems like injectors and such out of warranty you will cry when you foot the bill. i know of a guy around here last year that blew a cummins in a 05 dodge from boosting it and dealer would not cover warranty it because of abuse and it cost him 25 grand to fix!!!!! he has about 70 grand now in a 2 year old truck that is worth maybe 30 if his is lucky he saved a lot of money here huh you could blow several gas motors for that price. if diesel were not so expensive to buy and repair it could be differnt but i do not want a truck that it can cost more to repair motor than truck is worth when it is not very old. also the future lays with engines that will be able to run gas alchol grain or coal based biobutanol cng propane and p-series fuel and this will be gas style motors. diesel has a very limited diet potentail and bio diesel offers no long term solution for masses though some like to think otherwise. you are sadly misinformed. in fact you obv
From : Annonymous
ohh. this should be good. . 222 334515 52km335iidtb1ft2c9bsjko7r03sm1j84n@4ax.com on fri 04 may 2007 105929 gmt snoman admin@snoman.com wrote on thu 03 may 2007 203829 -0400 chris thompson kf4drr-nospam@alltel.net wrote dude we get it. you hate diesels no you miss the point i hate engine that are dirty and smelly at times. ok then we get it. you hate all engines. if gas engine had as few emission restrictions as diesels have had they would be different animals today. the point i am making and that diesel lovers hate to talk about when their ego is deflated is that they are going to have to comply in future and clean up their act which is going to increase that purchase and maintainance price in future and when you do the bottom line where you add up purchase price fuel maintainance and such over life of vehicle it will likely not save you a dime and likely cost you more out of your pocket to own and operate. also the future lays with engines that will be able to run gas alchol grain or coal based biobutanol cng propane and p-series fuel and this will be gas style motors. diesel has a very limited diet potentail and bio diesel offers no long term solution for masses though some like to think otherwise. ----------------- thesnoman.com .
From : aarcuda69062
snoman admin@snoman.com wrote the reason the diesels had fewer restrictions in the past was because there were fewer of them. the new restrictions are quite a bit tighter especially for the fuel. the reason they did not have them is because they played the fuel card too claiming sulpher in fuel would negate emission control and they might not have added increased restriction now had not detriot exploited this loophole for profit. sort of same as back in the 70s when the available fuel would have poisoned catalytic converters. sorry had you not noticed the past 10 years of cummins engines for otr applications all of them are using the interact system and all are electronically controlled. thus they have been clean for a number of years. prior to that diesel emissions were mainly particulate. as such a gasoline engined car driving on a dirt or a dirty road road would stir up more dust. take a look and youll find that diesel fuel has always burned cleaner than gasoline when it comes to most anything they sniff for at the tailpipe. this assumes proper tune to the engine of course. you are mistaken here. diesel have always been low on hc and co but a lost cause with nox up to 20 times worse than gas at times because there was no nox limit on them. there is a nox limit on your truck but you ignore it. also what in misleading about diesel emissions is that they move a lot more air through them so say 30 ppm or hc on them is actually a lot higher than 30 ppm on a gas motor and the higher air flow dilutes the ppm but not gpm grams per mile. the federal emissions test procedure only measures in grams per mile. your point they have also had a long running battle with suspended particulates and will it is improving it is a polutent that is not a problem with a gas motor. if diesel had been follow same rules as gas motors have for year they would no be in wide use in suvs today because of the cost of compliance. since i know for a fact that none of this is up to you how do you know for certain your frustrations do not necessarily project onto the entirety of the automotive industry. iows forget what your inflated ego is telling you. actually not all that much. the cummins adds a significant amount to the price of a truck but then so did the v10 and the hemi isnt much better. however this additional price can be recovered in the higher resale value. this is highly debatedable because around here anyway used one are not selling well nor are new ones. okay so your area is in a recession. so buy a tin cup with some pencils in it. also given incentive on new truck a few year old diesel is no a asset at trade in. i have a friend that has a 2005 that he paided 45k for that is loaded but he is tired of living with it and its payment and the savings that never materialized as want to get rid of it but they will not even give him 25k for it and it is cherry with only 30k miles on it. and a comparable truck with a gasoline engine is bringing how much in trade because peopleare buy cheaper gas trucks new here so you theory on you get more is highly debateable. no debate. there are lots of people who dont know the difference between price and value. sort of like how you dont know the difference between chicken salad and chicken crap. false. a diesel wants filter changes and oil changes. filters are cheap and easily changed. a gasoline engine wants sparkplugs coils wires and filters and oil changes. furthermore the oil change intervals on the gassers are shorter. time to install the plugs and wires can add up in labor charges especially if you own one of those nifty ford triton engines. false diesel filters generally cost more and do not foget fuel filter changes too my cost on a napa gold oil filter to fit a 06 cummins is $7.70 my cost on a napa gold oil filter to fit a 06 6.0 vortec is $5.88 fuel filter cummins $13.85 fuel filter vortec $13.66 thing is; i know i wont have to battle rotten fuel lines on the cummins when its time to change. and it takes a lot more oil in crankcase too so and you think that is a bad thing you can change oil even more often in a gas motor than diesl and still pay less. again you only know price not value. next on plugs and wires well they can last 50 to 100 k or they dont and now youre buying new catalytic converters for $1000.00 any the money you saved on oil change will easily pay for this and they are real easy and cheap to fix. you must buy crap plugs and wires. explains why you have to jack the ignition timing to get it to run half way decent... when you diesel has problems like injectors and such out of warranty you will cry when you foot the bill. yeah like gm never has problems with their injectors... theres a guy in indianapolis whos getting rich off of them! i know of a guy around here last year that blew a cummins in a 05 dodge from bo
From : chris thompson
on fri 04 may 2007 141505 +0000 snoman wrote false. a diesel wants filter changes and oil changes. filters are cheap and easily changed. a gasoline engine wants sparkplugs coils wires and filters and oil changes. furthermore the oil change intervals on the gassers are shorter. time to install the plugs and wires can add up in labor charges especially if you own one of those nifty ford triton engines. false diesel filters generally cost more and do not foget fuel filter changes too and it takes a lot more oil in crankcase too so you can change oil even more often in a gas motor than diesl and still pay less. thesnoman.com how much do you pay for your oil filters and gas filters yes gasoline vehicles have fuel filters too as far as your amount of oil...lets look at some examples..... my grandmothers f-150 holds 6 quarts changed every 3000 miles thats 12 quarts every 6000 mind you plus the additional filter for the second change my old 96 s10 held 5 quarts also changed every 3000 10 quarts in 6000 my 86 d100 also 5 every 3000 do we really need to keep the 6000 figure going my 99 2500 v10 held 8 quarts every 3000 hmmm thats 16 quarts every 6000 and the 05 cummins you despise so much 11 quarts every 7500 miles looks to me that the gas burner best case scenario nearly ties the diesel and for the most part exceeds the diesel oil requirement. by the way the fleetguard oil filter thats a cummins filter mind you is $7.50 and the fuel filter is $11.95 hardly a bank breaker.... now just curious whats your oil and fuel filters cost you i could call the local parts house and find out if ya really need me to. -- chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd .
From : max dodge
you are mistaken here. diesel have always been low on hc and co but a lost cause with nox up to 20 times worse than gas at times because there was no nox limit on them. hydrocarbons and co were the two worst for the gassers and were far worse than the diesel thus negating the advantage in no2. also what in misleading about diesel emissions is that they move a lot more air through them so say 30 ppm or hc on them is actually a lot higher than 30 ppm on a gas motor actually any engine only moves the displaced volume through on any given two revolutions for a four stroke engine. as such my cummins 5.9 moves the same amount of air as the 360 5.9 gasoline engine. what confuses you is that you think the gasser is moving less a/f mixture because its not at wot. fact is a diesel burns far less than all of the o2 in the cylinder unless its at wot. as such ppm is exactly what it says it is ppm and not some fraction thereof because you think its wrong. the higher air flow dilutes the ppm but not gpm grams per mile. they have also had a long running battle with suspended particulates and will it is improving it is a polutent that is not a problem with a gas motor. if diesel had been follow same rules as gas motors have for year they would no be in wide use in suvs today because of the cost of compliance. more utter and total bullshit. diesel engines are far more efficient simply because of the btu content of the fuel alone. factor in the lower rpms and the engine design and the diesle engine is far superior. want proof what is the overwhelming fuel of choice for large otr trucks hint despite your absurd beliefs its not gasoline. this is highly debatedable because around here anyway used one are not selling well nor are new ones. sorry its not highly debatable. dodge 2000my 2500 qc swb 80000 excellent condition trade in value diesel $11200 5.9/360 v8 $7150 8.0/488 v10 $7075 source www.kbb.com check any diesel truck and youll find that they sell for more even used. so you theory on you get more is highly debateable. um no. check kelley edmunds nada whichever... false diesel filters generally cost more and do not foget fuel filter changes too my oil filter costs me $7 on the truck $6 on the 2.2 turbo. fuel filter is about the same cost on both. and it takes a lot more oil in crankcase too so you can change oil even more often in a gas motor than diesl and still pay less. wrong. i use 12 quarts in the truck and run 2/3 times as far as the car on 5quarts. its about even. next on plugs and wires well they can last 50 to 100 k false. i dont care who told you that plugs will last 50k they will not. ive seen cars run with the plugs that old but they are less than peak efficiency and usually have problems. plug wires are junk at 50k unless routed well. even so in the lifetime of my cummins using your rate of replacement id go through four sets of plugs and wires on a gasser. thats about $100 a pop for a savings of $400... assuming i left things go as long as you do. the money you saved on oil change will easily pay for this and they are real easy and cheap to fix. when you diesel has problems like injectors and such out of warranty you will cry when you foot the bill. um no. true the parts cost more but they also have a higher reliability rate... at least in the cummins. i know of a guy around here last year that blew a cummins in a 05 dodge from boosting it and dealer would not cover warranty it because of abuse and it cost him 25 grand to fix!!!!! thats an example of stupidity not a costly engine. btw i dont believe for a second it cost $25k since the engine new in a crate is about $7000 short blocks are even less he has about 70 grand now in a 2 year old truck that is worth maybe 30 if his is lucky he saved a lot of money here huh well when youre an asshole you tend to spend money above and beyond whats necessary for the rest of us. you could blow several gas motors for that price. well lets look at this for a second.... if my cummins goes the 450k that its supposed to before a major repair id have used three maybe four gasoline engines in that time. at $800 for a long block thats $2400-$3200. labor... probably equal to that..... so a grand total of about $5000 maybe more. and the engine option only cos me $3800. looks like i saved $1200 by purchasing a diesel. if diesel were not so expensive to buy and repair it could be differnt but i do not want a truck that it can cost more to repair motor than truck is worth when it is not very old. try not blowing them up they cost less that way. you are sadly misinformed. in fact you obviously dont know that one safety hazard of owning a diesel for industrial applications is the need for an auto-shutdown device. this prevents the engine from over-revving in the event that combustible materials are sucked into the engine such as gasoline fume
From : roger rabbid
on fri 04 may 2007 215659 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote you are mistaken here. diesel have always been low on hc and co but a lost cause with nox up to 20 times worse than gas at times because there was no nox limit on them. hydrocarbons and co were the two worst for the gassers and were far worse than the diesel thus negating the advantage in no2. try not blowing them up they cost less that way. btw home heating oil is number two diesel without road tax i heat with it so this is not new fuel and sure you can run kero but it is from same fuel stock and has less btu too and it is not a alternate fuel either and same with jp4as they are all petro based. you run a diesel on gas you will blow it up from detonation real quick and while you can use very limited lpg or cng injection to reduce emissions you cannot run it on it alone. diesels have come a long way since the 80s.. theyre using egr systems electronic controlled fuel injection dual variable turbos and a slue of other tricks to make them run cleaner. all of the same tricks would apply to engines used in the automotive industry.. right up to the particulate collectors. ih was claiming that by 2010 their engine will produce cleaner air coming out of their engines than what went into them. ----== posted via feeds.com - unlimited-unrestricted-secure usenet ==---- http//www.feeds.com the #1 group service in the world! 120000+ groups ----= east and west-coast server farms - total privacy via encryption =---- .
From : max dodge
ih was claiming that by 2010 their engine will produce cleaner air coming out of their engines than what went into them. sadly even that level of emissions would be less than satisfactory to the epa etc. -- max join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about. there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author on fri 04 may 2007 215659 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote you are mistaken here. diesel have always been low on hc and co but a lost cause with nox up to 20 times worse than gas at times because there was no nox limit on them. hydrocarbons and co were the two worst for the gassers and were far worse than the diesel thus negating the advantage in no2. try not blowing them up they cost less that way. btw home heating oil is number two diesel without road tax i heat with it so this is not new fuel and sure you can run kero but it is from same fuel stock and has less btu too and it is not a alternate fuel either and same with jp4as they are all petro based. you run a diesel on gas you will blow it up from detonation real quick and while you can use very limited lpg or cng injection to reduce emissions you cannot run it on it alone. diesels have come a long way since the 80s.. theyre using egr systems electronic controlled fuel injection dual variable turbos and a slue of other tricks to make them run cleaner. all of the same tricks would apply to engines used in the automotive industry.. right up to the particulate collectors. ih was claiming that by 2010 their engine will produce cleaner air coming out of their engines than what went into them. ----== posted via feeds.com - unlimited-unrestricted-secure usenet ==---- http//www.feeds.com the #1 group service in the world! 120000+ groups ----= east and west-coast server farms - total privacy via encryption =---- .
From : jeb
well i like my diesel 2002 jetta tdi. get 37 mpg around town like clockwork and 44 or so on the highway. not bad for an automatic. those with manual transmission often get over 50mpg on the highway. i like being about to go 500+ miles and then fill up the tank only holds 15 gallons. this turbo diesel has lots of pickup can climb hills and pass without even shifting down. i also like talking mileage and the dropped jaws when i fill up next to the big diesel pickup trucks! dont hit me my other vehicle is a dakota pickup. john with ultra-clean fuel available at pumps diesel cars are re-entering the u.s. new york cnnmoney.com -- with rising gas prices diesel cars and suvs are gearing up for a major american comeback after a brief appearance 25 years ago. but if all you remember are the smell and noise you might not recognize the new leaner cleaner versions. back in the early 1980s 80 percent of the cars mercedes-benz sold in the u.s. were diesel powered. general motors sold diesel oldsmobiles and cadillacs. the reason then was obvious adjusted for inflation the cost of gasoline then was about $3.15 a gallon. buyers were looking for a more fuel-efficient way to drive. diesel engines were noisy they were slow i drove my aunts mercedes..seemed like 2 minutes to get to 60 and they puffed out nasty polluting smoke. but they used much less fuel than gasoline engines so buyers were willing to put up with the downsides. as gas prices went back down relative to other costs and environmental regulations became stricter the tide of diesels rolled back across the atlantic leaving only memories of clanky foul smelling diesel cars. today while half the cars sold in europe are diesels diesel market share in the u.s. is about 3.5 percent and thats mostly pick-ups according to r.l. polk & co. with a hungry european market to feed diesel development has continued creating turbocharged diesel engines that perform better and pollute less. todays diesel cars are virtually indistinguishable from their gasoline-burning siblings. except they use a lot less fuel.............. http//www.cnn.com/2007/autos/05/01/diesels/index.html .