Detroit's darkest hour
From : nomen nescio
Q: fortune http//doiop.com/1a9c7k gm ford and chrysler sell more pickups than do they anything else more than two million a year in good times. ...the sales data reported may 1 that pickup trucks have hit the skids is seriously bad ... without these reliable profit generators the business model for domestic auto producers in north american doesnt work. passenger cars under ferocious foreign assault are a breakeven proposition at best and sales of formerly lucrative suvs are falling faster than spider-man without his web. for general motors...the drop is a cruel blow to its plans to turn around north american operations - and may force it to scale back its assumptions about the business going forward. despite incentives of up to $2000 per unit silverado sales fell 7.2 percent in april. ford is fighting to protect the f-series with a new advertising campaign touting its durability in crash tests. but the collapse in the showroom digs an even deeper hole for the automaker. f-series sales are down 13.7 percent so far in 2007. at up-for-sale chrysler meanwhile dodge ram sales are holding steady but only thanks to incentives that climb as high as $5000 per vehicle... .
Replies:
From : aarcuda69062
snoman admin@snoman.com wrote most of all i hate that push and pray 4x4 drive select button that has mostly become the defacto standard for 07 it is now twist and pray yet you have no problem slamming dodge for totally eliminating that which you hate. you -are- full of contradictions. .
From : kickin ass and takin names
on may 2 440 pm nomen nescio use-author-supplied-address- header@127.1 wrote fortunehttp//doiop.com/1a9c7k gm ford and chrysler sell more pickups than do they anything else more than two million a year in good times. ..the sales data reported may 1 that pickup trucks have hit the skids is seriously bad ... without these reliable profit generators the business model for domestic auto producers in north american doesnt work. passenger cars under ferocious foreign assault are a breakeven proposition at best and sales of formerly lucrative suvs are falling faster than spider-man without his web. for general motors...the drop is a cruel blow to its plans to turn around north american operations - and may force it to scale back its assumptions about the business going forward. despite incentives of up to $2000 per unit silverado sales fell 7.2 percent in april. ford is fighting to protect the f-series with a new advertising campaign touting its durability in crash tests. but the collapse in the showroom digs an even deeper hole for the automaker. f-series sales are down 13.7 percent so far in 2007. at up-for-sale chrysler meanwhile dodge ram sales are holding steady but only thanks to incentives that climb as high as $5000 per vehicle... so -- when does this fall off in sales translate to salesmen actually wanting to sell a truck would seem to me that if your sales are in the toilet youd do something to generate sales -- but i guess detroit hasnt figured that out yet. im in the market for a plain jane truck. went to three ford dealers yesterday -- same tired old shit -- every truck on the lot is loaded up with junk that i dont want. if i want leather seats hot and cold running water and power everything ill buy a luxury car. i want an f-150 small v8 auto am/fm/cd pwr steering and brakes 8-foot bed -- impossible. of course if i want a king ranch diesel crew cab with every possible option goddam if theres not a dozen of them on the lot. then theres the sales people -- they wont listen to you -- just keep trying to push you into something thats more and more expensive all the while giving out the got to talk to the sales manager bullshit. of course chevy gmc dodge toyota and nissan are no different. .
From : snoman
on 4 may 2007 031533 -0700 kickin ass and takin names populist349@hotmail.com wrote im in the market for a plain jane truck. went to three ford dealers yesterday -- same tired old shit -- every truck on the lot is loaded up with junk that i dont want. if i want leather seats hot and cold running water and power everything ill buy a luxury car. i want an f-150 small v8 auto am/fm/cd pwr steering and brakes 8-foot bed -- impossible. of course if i want a king ranch diesel crew cab with every possible option goddam if theres not a dozen of them on the lot. i know were you are coming from. when i bought a new truck in 2000 even then i had a hard time finding a plain jane truck and it is even harder today. i breifly was looking at some 2006 models from gm that were 10k off sticker to replace mine but nothing out there had what i wanted. most of all i hate that push and pray 4x4 drive select button that has mostly become the defacto standard for 07 it is now twist and pray i suspect i will keep mine for several more years unless they start building real plain jane work p/us again. i buy them to do work not to impress anyone or as a daily driver to replace a car and when it is not making money or doing a task that it is truely needed for it is parked and i am driving around in a 4 cyl using less than 1/2 the fuel too. ----------------- thesnoman.com .
From : c e white
kickin ass and takin names populist349@hotmail.com wrote in on may 2 440 pm nomen nescio use-author-supplied-address- header@127.1 wrote fortunehttp//doiop.com/1a9c7k gm ford and chrysler sell more pickups than do they anything else more than two million a year in good times. ..the sales data reported may 1 that pickup trucks have hit the skids is seriously bad ... without these reliable profit generators the business model for domestic auto producers in north american doesnt work. passenger cars under ferocious foreign assault are a breakeven proposition at best and sales of formerly lucrative suvs are falling faster than spider-man without his web. for general motors...the drop is a cruel blow to its plans to turn around north american operations - and may force it to scale back its assumptions about the business going forward. despite incentives of up to $2000 per unit silverado sales fell 7.2 percent in april. ford is fighting to protect the f-series with a new advertising campaign touting its durability in crash tests. but the collapse in the showroom digs an even deeper hole for the automaker. f-series sales are down 13.7 percent so far in 2007. at up-for-sale chrysler meanwhile dodge ram sales are holding steady but only thanks to incentives that climb as high as $5000 per vehicle... so -- when does this fall off in sales translate to salesmen actually wanting to sell a truck would seem to me that if your sales are in the toilet youd do something to generate sales -- but i guess detroit hasnt figured that out yet. im in the market for a plain jane truck. went to three ford dealers yesterday -- same tired old shit -- every truck on the lot is loaded up with junk that i dont want. if i want leather seats hot and cold running water and power everything ill buy a luxury car. i want an f-150 small v8 auto am/fm/cd pwr steering and brakes 8-foot bed -- impossible. of course if i want a king ranch diesel crew cab with every possible option goddam if theres not a dozen of them on the lot. i dont know where you are but last year when i was shopping for a pick-up for my farm none of the ford dealers had any trouble finding a stripped work truck. i just looked at the inventory of the closest ford dealer and he has many in stock. if you really want a ford go to www.fordvehicles.com and build an f-150 like you want and then search the local inventory for a close match. i just input your request into the website and one dealer had over 200 close matches. they had over 100 exact matches. price before taxes and taxes but after rebates was less than $17k. ed .
From : joe
on may 2 440 pm nomen nescio use-author-supplied-address- header@127.1 wrote so -- when does this fall off in sales translate to salesmen actually wanting to sell a truck would seem to me that if your sales are in the toilet youd do something to generate sales -- but i guess detroit hasnt figured that out yet. im in the market for a plain jane truck. went to three ford dealers yesterday -- same tired old shit -- every truck on the lot is loaded up with junk that i dont want. if i want leather seats hot and cold running water and power everything ill buy a luxury car. i want an f-150 small v8 auto am/fm/cd pwr steering and brakes 8-foot bed -- impossible. of course if i want a king ranch diesel crew cab with every possible option goddam if theres not a dozen of them on the lot. then theres the sales people -- they wont listen to you -- just keep trying to push you into something thats more and more expensive all the while giving out the got to talk to the sales manager bullshit. great points all. really great post. thats the only industry where its considered essential to torment your customers. the dealers always believed in business as usual at all costs. i dont understand it either. theyre crazy. i wont ever go to a dealership unless its closed! id probably buy a new car every year if they werent so awful. as it is i just have too much self-respect and i never buy any. but remember the dealers arent really under the control of ford and gm. ford may be dying a grisly death but its not like they can tell their dealers what to do. the dealers will have to act out of enlightened self-interest. its not ford thats insane about that particular issue its the dealers. at my company we treat our customers like gold. were scared not to. .
From : snoman
on fri 04 may 2007 093419 -0500 aarcuda69062 nonelson@sbcglobal.net wrote yet you have no problem slamming dodge for totally eliminating that which you hate. you -are- full of contradictions. no i am not your are! i like manually controlled transfer cases not servo controlled one or studiply designed 4x4 systems that have no abilty to disconnect front axle differentail like dodge to save a few buck making them and cost consumer a few thousands bucks in extra fuel costs over life of vehicle. if shifting a tcase manually or maybe even having to engage hubs like i did for many years is too much for you then get a 2wd. given todays fuel market there is no logic excuse to not disconnect front differentail and drive shaft in 2wd. none! it is strictly a profit thing and nothin more. dodge could have had lockout hubs easily added to the new aam axle they started using in 2003 on hd pickups but it was cheaper to leave them off and use the bastard hub/bearing design that they use instead and let consumer pay for folly unknowingly. make no mistake it is costing you mpg and more than you think. i could always tell when my hubs or diff was not disconnected in 2wd because it did not roll/coast as well but on a dodge it is normal to have it drag all the time so you do not know any better other than wonder why your mpg sucks at times. ----------------- thesnoman.com .
From : aarcuda69062
snoman admin@snoman.com wrote on fri 04 may 2007 093419 -0500 aarcuda69062 nonelson@sbcglobal.net wrote yet you have no problem slamming dodge for totally eliminating that which you hate. you -are- full of contradictions. no i am not your are! i like manually controlled transfer cases not servo controlled every late model dodge ram 4x4 ive seen has a transfer case shift lever. no servo. one or studiply designed 4x4 systems that have no abilty to disconnect front axle differentail like dodge to save a few buck making them and cost consumer a few thousands bucks in extra fuel costs over life of vehicle. axle disconnects are unreliable and can leave you stranded. they also leave the differential gears spinning inside the differential case causing wear. real lock out hubs might be a good compromise but they also can fail leaving you stranded/stuck/wishing. if shifting a tcase manually or maybe even having to engage hubs like i did for many years is too much for you then get a 2wd. ive never owned anything but manually shifted transfer cases. given todays fuel market there is no logic excuse to not disconnect front differentail and drive shaft in 2wd. none! your -opinion-. it is strictly a profit thing and nothin more. another one of your opinions. dodge could have had lockout hubs easily added to the new aam axle they started using in 2003 on hd pickups but it was cheaper to leave them off and use the bastard hub/bearing design that they use instead and let consumer pay for folly unknowingly. again opinion. and as for unknowingly you think its some deep dark secret make no mistake it is costing you mpg and more than you think. its not costing me anything. i could always tell when my hubs or diff was not disconnected in 2wd because it did not roll/coast as well but on a dodge it is normal to have it drag all the time so you do not know any better other than wonder why your mpg sucks at times. funny my friend just returned from a trip to colorado in his 04 ram 2500 diesel pulling a trailer with 4 passengers he averaged 20 mpg not to mention 30 cents a gallon cheaper for diesel fuel vs. gasoline. same trip when he had a 2000 ram 2500 gas 5.9 hed get at best 11 mpg and be wheezing up the mountains... dont forget the 2000 had front axle disconnect. post something factual not your usual anti-dodge/diesel snobbery that is totally based on emotion instead of fact. as for your thousands extra in fuel costs check what the going rate is to repair late model ford lock outs and get back to me okay .
From : aarcuda69062
my name is nobody nobody@msn.com wrote snoman admin@snoman.com wrote on fri 04 may 2007 093419 -0500 aarcuda69062 nonelson@sbcglobal.net wrote yet you have no problem slamming dodge for totally eliminating that which you hate. you -are- full of contradictions. no i am not your are! i like manually controlled transfer cases not servo controlled every late model dodge ram 4x4 ive seen has a transfer case shift lever. no servo. one or studiply designed 4x4 systems that have no abilty to disconnect front axle differentail like dodge to save a few buck making them and cost consumer a few thousands bucks in extra fuel costs over life of vehicle. axle disconnects are unreliable and can leave you stranded. they also leave the differential gears spinning inside the differential case causing wear. real lock out hubs might be a good compromise but they also can fail leaving you stranded/stuck/wishing. having driven 5 4x4 trucks with manual lockout front hubs to over 200000 miles each many of those off road using the 4x4 i have never had a hub failure. what are you talking about failed lock out hubs. .
From : aarcuda69062
tbone tbonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote snoman admin@snoman.com wrote on fri 04 may 2007 093419 -0500 aarcuda69062 nonelson@sbcglobal.net wrote yet you have no problem slamming dodge for totally eliminating that which you hate. you -are- full of contradictions. no i am not your are! i like manually controlled transfer cases not servo controlled every late model dodge ram 4x4 ive seen has a transfer case shift lever. no servo. then i guess that you dont get out much. youre right. i dont. one or studiply designed 4x4 systems that have no abilty to disconnect front axle differentail like dodge to save a few buck making them and cost consumer a few thousands bucks in extra fuel costs over life of vehicle. axle disconnects are unreliable and can leave you stranded. really how ask the chevy guys whove had the wax motor fail in cold temps. or the dodge/chevy guys whove had the vacuum switch on the t-case fail. or the chevy guys whove had a battery leak and the acid ate up the disconnect pot. they also leave the differential gears spinning inside the differential case causing wear. real lock out hubs might be a good compromise but they also can fail leaving you stranded/stuck/wishing. again how i made two statements there which one would you like clarified if shifting a tcase manually or maybe even having to engage hubs like i did for many years is too much for you then get a 2wd. ive never owned anything but manually shifted transfer cases. but that doesnt mean that they dont exist. never said otherwise. my buddies ford has a switch on the dash and iirc tom l also has a switch for the 4wd on his dodge. im happy for both of them. given todays fuel market there is no logic excuse to not disconnect front differentail and drive shaft in 2wd. none! your -opinion-. i would say the opinion of many. could be but they all havent chimed in here... it is strictly a profit thing and nothin more. another one of your opinions. then what is the real reason if you wan the real reason ask the engineer not some washed up has been lawn mower guy. dodge could have had lockout hubs easily added to the new aam axle they started using in 2003 on hd pickups but it was cheaper to leave them off and use the bastard hub/bearing design that they use instead and let consumer pay for folly unknowingly. again opinion. and as for unknowingly you think its some deep dark secret it doesnt have to be a deap dark secret for people not to be aware of it. if a purchaser is unaware of a particular aspect of the truck theyre buying its their fault for not doing their homework. make no mistake it is costing you mpg and more than you think. its not costing me anything. i could always tell when my hubs or diff was not disconnected in 2wd because it did not roll/coast as well but on a dodge it is normal to have it drag all the time so you do not know any better other than wonder why your mpg sucks at times. funny my friend just returned from a trip to colorado in his 04 ram 2500 diesel pulling a trailer with 4 passengers he averaged 20 mpg not to mention 30 cents a gallon cheaper for diesel fuel vs. gasoline. same trip when he had a 2000 ram 2500 gas 5.9 hed get at best 11 mpg and be wheezing up the mountains... dont forget the 2000 had front axle disconnect. is this the best that you can do you are comparing apples to oranges here. as does snoman frequently which also happens to be who i was responding to. at least if the two trucks had the same engine you could actually be making a point but here.... friend got the same mpg on his trip as i did with my 97 4x4 ctd pulling my car to carlisle. plenty of fault to find with that comparison also. post something factual not your usual anti-dodge/diesel snobbery that is totally based on emotion instead of fact. what does this particular post have to do with diesels not a thing. what do you suppose i meant by anti-dodge/diesel as for your thousands extra in fuel costs check what the going rate is to repair late model ford lock outs and get back to me okay what makes you think that they are going to fail because its a known pattern failure. how much is a replacement rear axle bearing for a late model dodge 2500 there are no axle bearings in a late model dodge 2500 rear axle assembly. how much will it cost to repair / replace a transfer case it costs what it costs. and due to that cost should we all be driving 2wds not all just the ones who cant pony up to the pump. but transfer case wear wasnt one of snomans objections good thing you were here to think of it for him. .
From : my name is nobody
my name is nobody nobody@msn.com wrote snoman admin@snoman.com wrote on fri 04 may 2007 093419 -0500 aarcuda69062 nonelson@sbcglobal.net wrote yet you have no problem slamming dodge for totally eliminating that which you hate. you -are- full of contradictions. no i am not your are! i like manually controlled transfer cases not servo controlled every late model dodge ram 4x4 ive seen has a transfer case shift lever. no servo. one or studiply designed 4x4 systems that have no abilty to disconnect front axle differentail like dodge to save a few buck making them and cost consumer a few thousands bucks in extra fuel costs over life of vehicle. axle disconnects are unreliable and can leave you stranded. they also leave the differential gears spinning inside the differential case causing wear. real lock out hubs might be a good compromise but they also can fail leaving you stranded/stuck/wishing. having driven 5 4x4 trucks with manual lockout front hubs to over 200000 miles each many of those off road using the 4x4 i have never had a hub failure. what are you talking about failed lock out hubs. well your statement real lock out hubs might be a good compromise but they also can fail leaving you stranded/stuck/wishing. is disingenuous at best... .
From : my name is nobody
tbone tbonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote snoman admin@snoman.com wrote they also leave the differential gears spinning inside the differential case causing wear. real lock out hubs might be a good compromise but they also can fail leaving you stranded/stuck/wishing. again how i made two statements there which one would you like clarified this really silly one that is based in totally fantasy real lock out hubs might be a good compromise but they also can fail leaving you stranded/stuck/wishing. given todays fuel market there is no logic excuse to not disconnect front differentail and drive shaft in 2wd. none! your -opinion-. i would say the opinion of many. could be but they all havent chimed in here... no but everyone who want so seriously talk about fuel mileage knows enough about reducing rolling resistance to avoid sticking their foot in their mouth on this particular point... because its a known pattern failure. how much is a replacement rear axle bearing for a late model dodge 2500 there are no axle bearings in a late model dodge 2500 rear axle assembly. no axel bearings in an axel assembly now that is a neat trick... .
From : tbone
tbone tbonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote snoman admin@snoman.com wrote they also leave the differential gears spinning inside the differential case causing wear. real lock out hubs might be a good compromise but they also can fail leaving you stranded/stuck/wishing. again how i made two statements there which one would you like clarified this really silly one that is based in totally fantasy real lock out hubs might be a good compromise but they also can fail leaving you stranded/stuck/wishing. given todays fuel market there is no logic excuse to not disconnect front differentail and drive shaft in 2wd. none! your -opinion-. i would say the opinion of many. could be but they all havent chimed in here... no but everyone who want so seriously talk about fuel mileage knows enough about reducing rolling resistance to avoid sticking their foot in their mouth on this particular point... because its a known pattern failure. how much is a replacement rear axle bearing for a late model dodge 2500 there are no axle bearings in a late model dodge 2500 rear axle assembly. no axel bearings in an axel assembly now that is a neat trick... actually he is correct as it is called a wheel bearing in this case with its full floating axles but he knew what i was talking about. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .
From : aarcuda69062
my name is nobody nobody@msn.com wrote having driven 5 4x4 trucks with manual lockout front hubs to over 200000 miles each many of those off road using the 4x4 i have never had a hub failure. what are you talking about failed lock out hubs. well your statement real lock out hubs might be a good compromise but they also can fail leaving you stranded/stuck/wishing. is disingenuous at best... if you say so. .
From : aarcuda69062
tbone tbonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote no axel bearings in an axel assembly now that is a neat trick... actually he is correct as it is called a wheel bearing in this case with its full floating axles but he knew what i was talking about. of course i knew what you were talking about thats why i answered as i did. so was that purposely miss-worded or are you really that unfamiliar with the proper names of the parts .
From : aarcuda69062
my name is nobody nobody@msn.com wrote tbone tbonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote snoman admin@snoman.com wrote they also leave the differential gears spinning inside the differential case causing wear. real lock out hubs might be a good compromise but they also can fail leaving you stranded/stuck/wishing. again how i made two statements there which one would you like clarified this really silly one that is based in totally fantasy real lock out hubs might be a good compromise but they also can fail leaving you stranded/stuck/wishing. well they are a compromise and since ive serviced far more of them than your 5 trucks hardly a fantasy. the aam axles without lock outs or a disengagement mechanism are also a compromise buy im not about to discount them based solely on snojobs say so. given todays fuel market there is no logic excuse to not disconnect front differentail and drive shaft in 2wd. none! your -opinion-. i would say the opinion of many. could be but they all havent chimed in here... no but everyone who want so seriously talk about fuel mileage knows enough about reducing rolling resistance to avoid sticking their foot in their mouth on this particular point... anyone who is serious about fuel mileage doesnt buy a 3/4 ton truck and expect to get it. because its a known pattern failure. how much is a replacement rear axle bearing for a late model dodge 2500 there are no axle bearings in a late model dodge 2500 rear axle assembly. no axel bearings in an axel assembly now that is a neat trick... no trick. a dodge 2500 doesnt have axle bearings it has wheel bearings. me thinks you dont know as much about this stuff as you think you do. .
From : tbone
tbone tbonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote snoman admin@snoman.com wrote on fri 04 may 2007 093419 -0500 aarcuda69062 nonelson@sbcglobal.net wrote yet you have no problem slamming dodge for totally eliminating that which you hate. you -are- full of contradictions. no i am not your are! i like manually controlled transfer cases not servo controlled every late model dodge ram 4x4 ive seen has a transfer case shift lever. no servo. then i guess that you dont get out much. youre right. i dont. one or studiply designed 4x4 systems that have no abilty to disconnect front axle differentail like dodge to save a few buck making them and cost consumer a few thousands bucks in extra fuel costs over life of vehicle. axle disconnects are unreliable and can leave you stranded. really how ask the chevy guys whove had the wax motor fail in cold temps. or the dodge/chevy guys whove had the vacuum switch on the t-case fail. or the chevy guys whove had a battery leak and the acid ate up the disconnect pot. and this gets then stuck....how it might stop the front axle from engaging but that is not going to get them stuck unless of course the rear axle isnt working either. they also leave the differential gears spinning inside the differential case causing wear. real lock out hubs might be a good compromise but they also can fail leaving you stranded/stuck/wishing. again how i made two statements there which one would you like clarified both. if shifting a tcase manually or maybe even having to engage hubs like i did for many years is too much for you then get a 2wd. ive never owned anything but manually shifted transfer cases. but that doesnt mean that they dont exist. never said otherwise. but that is what you have implied. my buddies ford has a switch on the dash and iirc tom l also has a switch for the 4wd on his dodge. im happy for both of them. given todays fuel market there is no logic excuse to not disconnect front differentail and drive shaft in 2wd. none! your -opinion-. i would say the opinion of many. could be but they all havent chimed in here... why would they it is strictly a profit thing and nothin more. another one of your opinions. then what is the real reason if you wan the real reason ask the engineer not some washed up has been lawn mower guy. ah i see. it is not whether he is correct or not that matters just your dislike of the guy. the point is that it is not the engineers designing this crap it is the accountants determining how to make a few extra pennies of extra profit by cutting back on the engineers designs that makes these decisions. dodge could have had lockout hubs easily added to the new aam axle they started using in 2003 on hd pickups but it was cheaper to leave them off and use the bastard hub/bearing design that they use instead and let consumer pay for folly unknowingly. again opinion. and as for unknowingly you think its some deep dark secret it doesnt have to be a deap dark secret for people not to be aware of it. if a purchaser is unaware of a particular aspect of the truck theyre buying its their fault for not doing their homework. oh back to the right wing buyer beware huh the problem with that way of thinking is that it allows for a fuckem if you can mentality which then results in your hated big government. make no mistake it is costing you mpg and more than you think. its not costing me anything. i could always tell when my hubs or diff was not disconnected in 2wd because it did not roll/coast as well but on a dodge it is normal to have it drag all the time so you do not know any better other than wonder why your mpg sucks at times. funny my friend just returned from a trip to colorado in his 04 ram 2500 diesel pulling a trailer with 4 passengers he averaged 20 mpg not to mention 30 cents a gallon cheaper for diesel fuel vs. gasoline. same trip when he had a 2000 ram 2500 gas 5.9 hed get at best 11 mpg and be wheezing up the mountains... dont forget the 2000 had front axle disconnect. is this the best that you can do you are comparing apples to oranges here. as does snoman frequently which also happens to be who i was responding to. so i guess that you are the same as you accuse him of being then. at least if the two trucks had the same engine you could actually be making a point but here.... friend got the same mpg on his trip as i did with my 97 4x4 ctd pulling my car to carlisle. plenty of fault to find with that comparison also. not enough information here. post something factual not your usual anti-dodge/diesel snobbery that is totally based on emotion instead of fact. what does this particular post have to do with diesels not a thing. what do you suppose i meant by anti-dodge/diesel while he may be anti-diesel i just dont see the anti-dodge p
From : aarcuda69062
tbone tbonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote really how ask the chevy guys whove had the wax motor fail in cold temps. or the dodge/chevy guys whove had the vacuum switch on the t-case fail. or the chevy guys whove had a battery leak and the acid ate up the disconnect pot. and this gets then stuck....how it might stop the front axle from engaging but that is not going to get them stuck unless of course the rear axle isnt working either. youre right no one buys a 4x4 because it might afford them better traction. a functioning front drive axle has nothing to do with stuck or unstuck. they also leave the differential gears spinning inside the differential case causing wear. real lock out hubs might be a good compromise but they also can fail leaving you stranded/stuck/wishing. again how i made two statements there which one would you like clarified both. since the axle disconnects in discussion here only disengage the outer right axle stub from the inner right axle shaft the left axle stays engaged with the differential pinion gears that means that when the vehicle is moving and 4x4 is not engaged the differential pinion gears are still spinning inside the differential case. lock out hubs i wish i could give you a count of the number of lock out hubs ive replaced during my years in gm and ford dealerships but i just never kept a record. i can tell you that in the nine years that i owned my f-150 i replaced the lock out hubs three times because they would corrode from the winter road salt so badly that theyd either leak or you couldnt engage/disengage them anymore. wasnt unusual to spend an hour drilling out the allen bolts that held them together to perform a brake job/bearing pack only to find that theyd still not come apart due to rot and had to be removed destructively. then theres the auto hubs that were used on the bronco ii /ranger/explorer chassis that would fail and when they did the customer would be in fear of driving the vehicle in for service and have it towed. the auto locking hubs used on the gm k-5 and k-10 chassis were just plain useless. anyone who actually depends on their 4 wheel drive working when its needed instead of buying it as a penis extension can certainly appreciate the simplicity and reliability of not having an added failure point as part of their front drive axle. if shifting a tcase manually or maybe even having to engage hubs like i did for many years is too much for you then get a 2wd. ive never owned anything but manually shifted transfer cases. but that doesnt mean that they dont exist. never said otherwise. but that is what you have implied. the only implications in this thread are snojerks assertions that he has some sort of inside information as to why dodge chose to do something the way they did or the reasons a consumer might choose one version over another. my buddies ford has a switch on the dash and iirc tom l also has a switch for the 4wd on his dodge. im happy for both of them. given todays fuel market there is no logic excuse to not disconnect front differentail and drive shaft in 2wd. none! your -opinion-. i would say the opinion of many. could be but they all havent chimed in here... why would they ask them. i wouldnt pretend to answer for the millions of other 4x4 owners out there. if you want the real reason ask the engineer not some washed up has been lawn mower guy. ah i see. it is not whether he is correct or not that matters just your dislike of the guy. i dont dislike the guy or snoman for that matter never met either of them. but snoman does give a disproportionate share of flat out wrong information and in this case there is no chance that hes anywhere near the position of knowing the real reasons of why a particular design choice was made. the point is that it is not the engineers designing this crap it is the accountants determining how to make a few extra pennies of extra profit by cutting back on the engineers designs that makes these decisions. cite again opinion. and as for unknowingly you think its some deep dark secret it doesnt have to be a deap dark secret for people not to be aware of it. if a purchaser is unaware of a particular aspect of the truck theyre buying its their fault for not doing their homework. oh back to the right wing buyer beware huh back to should i reply with; back to the left wing buyers poor choices are the fault of everyone else except themselves the problem with that way of thinking is that it allows for a fuckem if you can mentality which then results in your hated big government. sorry i fail to see the connection between big government and why dodge ram trucks dont have front axle disconnects or lock out hubs and frankly if were a matter of big government to begin with then they would have them in the interest of emissions and energy conser
From : my name is nobody
tbone tbonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote really how ask the chevy guys whove had the wax motor fail in cold temps. or the dodge/chevy guys whove had the vacuum switch on the t-case fail. or the chevy guys whove had a battery leak and the acid ate up the disconnect pot. and this gets then stuck....how it might stop the front axle from engaging but that is not going to get them stuck unless of course the rear axle isnt working either. youre right no one buys a 4x4 because it might afford them better traction. a functioning front drive axle has nothing to do with stuck or unstuck. are you serious 4x4 front drive axel/hub assembly failures are nearly nonexistent. do you have any data indicating they fail any more often than rear axle assemblies what the heck are you talking about they also leave the differential gears spinning inside the differential case causing wear. real lock out hubs might be a good compromise but they also can fail leaving you stranded/stuck/wishing. again how i made two statements there wh
From : joe
i have a problem with my f250 starting cold.it takes about 4 ignitions turnswhile pumping gas pedalto get it going in the morning.i hate it!!!.could somebody please help me with this. call jd at 510 432 5986.im in san jose. thank u . 222 334740 8gn0i.57$m%1.37@fe12.lga information about these extensive failures. otherwise you are simply spewing bullshit. i cant believe you 2 guys are still posting in this silly thread. good grief! thanks for crossposting and have a nice day! just call each other on the phone and get it all straightened out. .
From : roy
roy wrote beat it troll. this is where you should take your own advice. like i said take you own advice. .
From : aarcuda69062
my name is nobody nobody@msn.com wrote youre right no one buys a 4x4 because it might afford them better traction. a functioning front drive axle has nothing to do with stuck or unstuck. are you serious yes. 4x4 front drive axel/hub assembly failures are nearly nonexistent. based on your experience as an owner. an owner who doesnt know the difference between an axle bearing and a wheel bearing. what state do you live in do you have any data indicating they fail any more often than rear axle assemblies why are you asking an auto mechanic for statistical data could you possibly be any more absurd i am giving you the benefit of my observations fuck me that i didnt know to keep detailed records starting back in 1979 when i first worked in a dealership. id really like to give you the statistics for 1983 it was a harsh winter but i was a little busy fixing vehicles i didnt have time to stand there with a clip board with my tie tucked into my shirt. tell ya what -you- invent the time machine and well both go back together and you can watch over my shoulder. sounds fair to me. what the heck are you talking about apparently something that is bursting your bubble big time. they also leave the differential gears spinning inside the differential case causing wear. real lock out hubs might be a good compromise but they also can fail leaving you stranded/stuck/wishing. again how i made two statements there which one would you like clarified both. since the axle disconnects in discussion here only disengage the outer right axle stub from the inner right axle shaft the left axle stays engaged with the differential pinion gears that means that when the vehicle is moving and 4x4 is not engaged the differential pinion gears are still spinning inside the differential case. youve added no comments so ill just assume that there is no disagreement and you actually learned something. lock out hubs i wish i could give you a count of the number of lock out hubs ive replaced during my years in gm and ford dealerships but i just never kept a record. i can tell you that in the nine years that i owned my f-150 i replaced the lock out hubs three times because they would corrode from the winter road salt so badly that theyd either leak or you couldnt engage/disengage them anymore. wasnt unusual to spend an hour drilling out the allen bolts that held them together to perform a brake job/bearing pack only to find that theyd still not come apart due to rot and had to be removed destructively. then theres the auto hubs that were used on the bronco ii /ranger/explorer chassis that would fail and when they did the customer would be in fear of driving the vehicle in for service and have it towed. the auto locking hubs used on the gm k-5 and k-10 chassis were just plain useless. you vast experience with one f-150 read again pay more attention to where i say the number of lock out hubs ive replaced during my years in gm and ford dealerships since when did trucklet parts bronco ii/ranger/explorer gm k-5 and k-10 enter in to this discussion. since the size of the vehicle has nothing to do with the fact that added components and complexity adds to the likelihood of more frequent failure. how many 3/4 & 1-ton real trucks lock out hubs have you seen fail you know damn well not too many. why would you even bother to ask given that earlier in your reply you expressed dissatisfaction with my methods of recall. youll just have to use your imagination since i cant produce the laboratory grade test results tabulated on a fleet of cray super computers amatorized according to congressional voting districts and cross checked against blood type. anyone who actually depends on their 4 wheel drive working when its needed instead of buying it as a penis extension can certainly appreciate the simplicity and reliability of not having an added failure point as part of their front drive axle. you have a penis fixation too no but you probably do since it seems to have upset you so. the more you rave about a nonexistent problem the sillier you look. so go buy a super duty with vacuum locking hubs and get back to me in a few years and tell me all about silly when your truck wont pass an emissions test because the seals in the vacuum hubs are leaking and setting lean trouble codes. but im thinking this might be a bit over your head the only implications in this thread are snojerks assertions that he has some sort of inside information as to why dodge chose to do something the way they did or the reasons a consumer might choose one version over another. well your position is questionable at best when you lump it together with your asinine assertion that lock out hub dont function exactly as designed with nearly zero failures for well over 100000 miles in 99% of all new 4x4 trucks. luckily im not
From : beryl
aardvarkbarracuda69062 nobody@msn.com wrote youre right no one buys a 4x4 because it might afford them better traction. a functioning front drive axle has nothing to do with stuck or unstuck. are you serious yes. 4x4 front drive axel/hub assembly failures are nearly nonexistent. based on your experience as an owner. an owner who doesnt know the difference between an axle bearing and a wheel bearing. what state do you live in do you have any data indicating they fail any more often than rear axle assemblies why are you asking an auto mechanic for statistical data could you possibly be any more absurd i am giving you the benefit of my observations fuck me that i didnt know to keep detailed records starting back in 1979 when i first worked in a dealership. id really like to give you the statistics for 1983 it was a harsh winter but i was a little busy fixing vehicles i didnt have time to stand there with a clip board with my tie tucked into my shirt. tell ya what -you- invent the time machine and well both go back together and you can watch over my shoulder. sounds fair to me. what the heck are you talking about apparently something that is bursting your bubble big time. they also leave the differential gears spinning inside the differential case causing wear. real lock out hubs might be a good compromise but they also can fail leaving you stranded/stuck/wishing. again how i made two statements there which one would you like clarified both. since the axle disconnects in discussion here only disengage the outer right axle stub from the inner right axle shaft the left axle stays engaged with the differential pinion gears that means that when the vehicle is moving and 4x4 is not engaged the differential pinion gears are still spinning inside the differential case. youve added no comments so ill just assume that there is no disagreement and you actually learned something. lock out hubs i wish i could give you a count of the number of lock out hubs ive replaced during my years in gm and ford dealerships but i just never kept a record. i can tell you that in the nine years that i owned my f-150 i replaced the lock out hubs three times because they would corrode from the winter road salt so badly that theyd either leak or you couldnt engage/disengage them anymore. wasnt unusual to spend an hour drilling out the allen bolts that held them together to perform a brake job/bearing pack only to find that theyd still not come apart due to rot and had to be removed destructively. then theres the auto hubs that were used on the bronco ii /ranger/explorer chassis that would fail and when they did the customer would be in fear of driving the vehicle in for service and have it towed. the auto locking hubs used on the gm k-5 and k-10 chassis were just plain useless. you vast experience with one f-150 read again pay more attention to where i say the number of lock out hubs ive replaced during my years in gm and ford dealerships since when did trucklet parts bronco ii/ranger/explorer gm k-5 and k-10 enter in to this discussion. since the size of the vehicle has nothing to do with the fact that added components and complexity adds to the likelihood of more frequent failure. how many 3/4 & 1-ton real trucks lock out hubs have you seen fail you know damn well not too many. why would you even bother to ask given that earlier in your reply you expressed dissatisfaction with my methods of recall. youll just have to use your imagination since i cant produce the laboratory grade test results tabulated on a fleet of cray super computers amatorized according to congressional voting districts and cross checked against blood type. anyone who actually depends on their 4 wheel drive working when its needed instead of buying it as a penis extension can certainly appreciate the simplicity and reliability of not having an added failure point as part of their front drive axle. you have a penis fixation too no but you probably do since it seems to have upset you so. the more you rave about a nonexistent problem the sillier you look. so go buy a super duty with vacuum locking hubs and get back to me in a few years and tell me all about silly when your truck wont pass an emissions test because the seals in the vacuum hubs are leaking and setting lean trouble codes. but im thinking this might be a bit over your head the only implications in this thread are snojerks assertions that he has some sort of inside information as to why dodge chose to do something the way they did or the reasons a consumer might choose one version over another. well your position is questionable at best when you lump it together with your asinine assertion that lock out hub dont function exactly as designed with nearly zero failures for well over 100000 miles in 99% of all new 4x4 trucks. luckily im not a whole lot concerned since its quite apparent that your experiences are to say
From : beryl
roy wrote beat it troll. this is where you should take your own advice. nah. aardvarkbarracuda is another feces-hurling punk from the ford balljoint thread that you once thought was important that i read but then refused to say why. what was your problem there -- make friends with a few animals. then you will become a cheerful man once more and nothing will be able to trouble you. -- albert einstein .
From : aarcuda69062
beryl terrapin@coolbits.net wrote roy wrote beat it troll. this is where you should take your own advice. nah. aardvarkbarracuda is another feces-hurling punk from the ford balljoint thread that you once thought was important that i read but then refused to say why. what was your problem there youre just another one of snofrauds sock puppets. .
From : Annonymous
on fri 11 may 2007 003522 -0700 beryl terrapin@coolbits.net wrote aardvarkbarracuda69062 nobody@msn.com wrote youre right no one buys a 4x4 because it might afford them better traction. a functioning front drive axle has nothing to do with stuck or unstuck. are you serious yes. 4x4 front drive axel/hub assembly failures are nearly nonexistent. based on your experience as an owner. an owner who doesnt know the difference between an axle bearing and a wheel bearing. what state do you live in do you have any data indicating they fail any more often than rear axle assemblies why are you asking an auto mechanic for statistical data could you possibly be any more absurd i am giving you the benefit of my observations fuck me that i didnt know to keep detailed records starting back in 1979 when i first worked in a dealership. id really like to give you the statistics for 1983 it was a harsh winter but i was a little busy fixing vehicles i didnt have time to stand there with a clip board with my tie tucked into my shirt. tell ya what -you- invent the time machine and well both go back together and you can watch over my shoulder. sounds fair to me. what the heck are you talking about apparently something that is bursting your bubble big time. they also leave the differential gears spinning inside the differential case causing wear. real lock out hubs might be a good compromise but they also can fail leaving you stranded/stuck/wishing. again how i made two statements there which one would you like clarified both. since the axle disconnects in discussion here only disengage the outer right axle stub from the inner right axle shaft the left axle stays engaged with the differential pinion gears that means that when the vehicle is moving and 4x4 is not engaged the differential pinion gears are still spinning inside the differential case. youve added no comments so ill just assume that there is no disagreement and you actually learned something. lock out hubs i wish i could give you a count of the number of lock out hubs ive replaced during my years in gm and ford dealerships but i just never kept a record. i can tell you that in the nine years that i owned my f-150 i replaced the lock out hubs three times because they would corrode from the winter road salt so badly that theyd either leak or you couldnt engage/disengage them anymore. wasnt unusual to spend an hour drilling out the allen bolts that held them together to perform a brake job/bearing pack only to find that theyd still not come apart due to rot and had to be removed destructively. then theres the auto hubs that were used on the bronco ii /ranger/explorer chassis that would fail and when they did the customer would be in fear of driving the vehicle in for service and have it towed. the auto locking hubs used on the gm k-5 and k-10 chassis were just plain useless. you vast experience with one f-150 read again pay more attention to where i say the number of lock out hubs ive replaced during my years in gm and ford dealerships since when did trucklet parts bronco ii/ranger/explorer gm k-5 and k-10 enter in to this discussion. since the size of the vehicle has nothing to do with the fact that added components and complexity adds to the likelihood of more frequent failure. how many 3/4 & 1-ton real trucks lock out hubs have you seen fail you know damn well not too many. why would you even bother to ask given that earlier in your reply you expressed dissatisfaction with my methods of recall. youll just have to use your imagination since i cant produce the laboratory grade test results tabulated on a fleet of cray super computers amatorized according to congressional voting districts and cross checked against blood type. anyone who actually depends on their 4 wheel drive working when its needed instead of buying it as a penis extension can certainly appreciate the simplicity and reliability of not having an added failure point as part of their front drive axle. you have a penis fixation too no but you probably do since it seems to have upset you so. the more you rave about a nonexistent problem the sillier you look. so go buy a super duty with vacuum locking hubs and get back to me in a few years and tell me all about silly when your truck wont pass an emissions test because the seals in the vacuum hubs are leaking and setting lean trouble codes. but im thinking this might be a bit over your head the only implications in this thread are snojerks assertions that he has some sort of inside information as to why dodge chose to do something the way they did or the reasons a consumer might choose one version over another. well your position is questionable at best when you lump it together with your asinine assertion that lock out hub dont function exactly as designed with nearly zero failures for well over 100000 miles in 99% of all new 4x4 trucks. luckily im not a whole lot
From : beryl
roy wrote roy wrote beat it troll. this is where you should take your own advice. like i said take you own advice. like you snipped nah. aardvarkbarracuda is another feces-hurling punk from the ford balljoint thread that you once thought was important that i read but then refused to say why. what was your problem there hmm skippy hello -- make friends with a few animals. then you will become a cheerful man once more and nothing will be able to trouble you. -- albert einstein .
From : roy
roy wrote roy wrote beat it troll. this is where you should take your own advice. like i said take you own advice. like you snipped yup get use to it. you still dont get it do ya troll boy let me help you out a bit. most of the folks at this ng and others realize that the idiot is well a idiot. they also seem to realize that your a ass hole. as such your pretty much ignored. you try but you fail. you might as well go back and bury your face in the idiots lap. it will give you something to do and keep the idiot occupied . sort of a win win for the pair of you and the readers of this ng. swallow it all troll boy dont make a mess.. .
From : perfectreign
on wed 02 may 2007 224004 +0200 nomen nescio felt wed all be better off knowing the following from nomen nescio use-author-supplied-address-header@127.1 author-supplied-address nobody at dizum dot com groups detroits darkest hour message-id 0c9e6c6c0e0514c80694e9506ee9ee4b@dizum.com date wed 2 may 2007 224004 +0200 cest mail-to--contact abuse@dizum.com organization mail2@dizum.com lines 24 alt.trucks.ford82261 fortune http//doiop.com/1a9c7k gm ford and chrysler sell more pickups than do they anything else more than two million a year in good times. snip anyone else wonder why this troll posted using a anonymous remailer gee... -- k .
From : beryl
aardvarkbarracuda69062 beryl terrapin@coolbits.net wrote roy wrote beat it troll. this is where you should take your own advice. nah. aardvarkbarracuda is another feces-hurling punk from the ford balljoint thread that you once thought was important that i read but then refused to say why. what was your problem there youre just another one of snofrauds sock puppets. hes unfazed takes the flaming in stride. i dont know him dont worry about him dont really care whether hes an idiot or not. its very sporting-like to rile punks though just seems like the right thing to do. and they enjoy it ive been told so. so youre some kind of hermaphrodite/platypus character huh -- make friends with a few animals. then you will become a cheerful man once more and nothing will be able to trouble you. -- albert einstein .
From : roy
on wed 02 may 2007 224004 +0200 nomen nescio felt wed all be better off knowing the following from nomen nescio use-author-supplied-address-header@127.1 author-supplied-address nobody at dizum dot com groups detroits darkest hour message-id 0c9e6c6c0e0514c80694e9506ee9ee4b@dizum.com date wed 2 may 2007 224004 +0200 cest mail-to--contact abuse@dizum.com organization mail2@dizum.com lines 24 alt.trucks.ford82261 fortune http//doiop.com/1a9c7k gm ford and chrysler sell more pickups than do they anything else more than two million a year in good times. snip anyone else wonder why this troll posted using a anonymous remailer nope he has been doing this same bs for years. .
From : aarcuda69062
sheryl one piece of toilet paper@coolbits.net wrote youre just another one of snofrauds sock puppets. hes unfazed thats funny. takes the flaming in stride. right. when he gets called on his bullshit he turns tail and hides. i dont know him dont worry about him dont really care whether hes an idiot or not. because you wouldnt know the difference anyway. its very sporting-like to rile punks though just seems like the right thing to do. and they enjoy it ive been told so. im relieved to know that youll have something to do when school lets out. so youre some kind of hermaphrodite/platypus character huh according to you i am a punk. make up your mind sheryl which is it .
From : beryl
aardvarkbarracuda69062 right. when he gets called on his bullshit he turns tail and hides. yup get use to it. but wait that isnt snoman its bashful roy your balljoint feces-hurling co-star. i dont know him dont worry about him dont really care whether hes an idiot or not. because you wouldnt know the difference anyway. its very sporting-like to rile punks though just seems like the right thing to do. and they enjoy it ive been told so. im relieved to know that youll have something to do when school lets out. so youre some kind of hermaphrodite/platypus character huh according to you i am a punk. make up your mind sheryl which is it punk is confirmed. you like bouncing lil punkin in your lap as much as roy does -- make friends with a few animals. then you will become a cheerful man once more and nothing will be able to trouble you. -- albert einstein .
From : roy
aardvarkbarracuda69062 punk is confirmed. you like bouncing lil punkin in your lap as much as roy does cmon troll boy get with the program. the only thing bouncing in a lap is your face in the idiots lap. dont make a mess no drooling. .
From : aarcuda69062
beryl terrapin@coolbits.net wrote according to you i am a punk. make up your mind sheryl which is it punk is confirmed. you like bouncing lil punkin in your lap as much as roy does good choice sheryl. had you chosen aardvark id be inclined to think that that is all the farther you could make it in the dictionary. had you chosen hermaphrodite id be inclined to think that you wanted to step it up a notch from autofellatio. .
From : beryl
aardvarkbarracuda69062 wrote beryl terrapin@coolbits.net wrote according to you i am a punk. make up your mind sheryl which is it punk is confirmed. you like bouncing lil punkin in your lap as much as roy does good choice sheryl. had you chosen aardvark id be inclined to think that that is youre already aardvark aardvark. all the farther you could make it in the dictionary. had you chosen hermaphrodite id be inclined to think that you wanted to step it up a notch from autofellatio. hermaphrodite isnt ruled out. i only said that punk is confirmed. -- make friends with a few animals. then you will become a cheerful man once more and nothing will be able to trouble you. -- albert einstein .
From : tbone
snoman admin@snoman.com wrote on fri 04 may 2007 093419 -0500 aarcuda69062 nonelson@sbcglobal.net wrote yet you have no problem slamming dodge for totally eliminating that which you hate. you -are- full of contradictions. no i am not your are! i like manually controlled transfer cases not servo controlled every late model dodge ram 4x4 ive seen has a transfer case shift lever. no servo. one or studiply designed 4x4 systems that have no abilty to disconnect front axle differentail like dodge to save a few buck making them and cost consumer a few thousands bucks in extra fuel costs over life of vehicle. axle disconnects are unreliable and can leave you stranded. they also leave the differential gears spinning inside the differential case causing wear. real lock out hubs might be a good compromise but they also can fail leaving you stranded/stuck/wishing. having driven 5 4x4 trucks with manual lockout front hubs to over 200000 miles each many of those off road using the 4x4 i have never had a hub failure. what are you talking about .
From : my name is nobody
engines were pure crap. eisboch .