Boiling a battery

From : nirodac

Q: are you measuring the running-charging-voltage at both battery terminals or between positive and engine ground ok you guys seem to know it all thats not intended as a slight 91 plymouth laser i know dodge truck ng but it is a chrysler product and i do own a dodge truck and well you guys know it all. constant clear liquid around the battery especially around the top vents very corrosive. no the battery does not have a leak battery was three years old exchanged with another three year old battery same thing clear liquid around battery. constantly adding water to the battery. removed regulator from the car set it up on the test bench regulator turns on alternator at 13.8 volts and turns off the alternator field winding at 14.2 volts at about 70 degrees f. battery voltage measured at the alternator/regulator is the same as the voltage measured at the battery. this vehicle uses a separate wire to measure the battery voltage for the regulator tests ok same voltage at either end of the wire. with the car running the measured output voltage of the alternator is 14.2 volts. manual says voltage should be between 13.9 and 14.9 volts question is why am i boiling the batteries. car runs fine starts ok no other problems. .

Replies:

From : max dodge

my son just called the car wouldnt start on its own but jump started ok. tomorrow ill bring the car home ill be putting a new battery in it for the drive home as the second battery from my father-in-laws ram charger 360 cidwont start the car now and start testing some of your solutions. a bunch of us are betting youve already solved the problem. tbone coulda told ya that if he had thought to check across the terminals. -- max give a man a match and he is warm for a short while. light him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life. sorry to have caused such grief here at the ng. my son just called the car wouldnt start on its own but jump started ok. tomorrow ill bring the car home ill be putting a new battery in it for the drive home as the second battery from my father-in-laws ram charger 360 cidwont start the car now and start testing some of your solutions. i plan on monitoring the 1. battery voltage across the terminals and 2. the sense lead voltage at the alternator using the alternator ground on the trip home on two different digital volt meters. its about a thirty mile drive so something should show up. anything else i might want to check for on the drive home. on a passing note would using the old battery for the drive home be a better idea and keep the new one incase i need a jump start. thanks on tue 23 aug 2005 191540 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote on tue 23 aug 2005 040213 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote lets forget all the little biy squabling and answer the ops question. the voltage must be checked across the battery posts - pos to neg. if the voltage is within spec under 14.6 with a fully charged battery and the battery still boils the battery is shot. checking from pos to engine or body ground will generally give a higher voltage if the ground is bad. if the wire from the alternator output has high resistance measuring from the alt output t0 ground will give a higher reading than across the battery. no shit and this is what i was saying all along. the voltage however does not have to be measured across the terminals in this case because as your examples have clearly demonstrated the voltage will not be higher at the battery than at these other measurement points and we are looking for an over voltage condition at the battery. as for the battery being shot that possibility has been substantially reduced as the op indicated that this condition is occurring with more than one battery so unless both of them are shot although still a possibility the problem seems to lie elsewhere. he said he used another 3 year old battery. what is the average lifespan of todays batteries just under 3 years - so the chances are pretty good he has two bad batteries. .

From : nirodac

he said he used another 3 year old battery. what is the average lifespan of todays batteries just under 3 years - so the chances are pretty good he has two bad batteries. excellent point. one that would be found if the op disregarded tbones insistance that checking across the terminals is unnecessary. 1 a static check after sitting a while would show a low voltage thus enhancing tbones idea of too much starter draw. 2 a check while charging would confirm proper voltage to the battery. 3 a check after being charged and another an hour later would indicate battery condition. 4 a load test wouldnt hurt. all of these depend on checking across the terminals not to ground and the positive terminal. but hey all three of us are full of crap. -- max give a man a match and he is warm for a short while. light him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life. on tue 23 aug 2005 191540 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote on tue 23 aug 2005 040213 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote lets forget all the little biy squabling and answer the ops question. the voltage must be checked across the battery posts - pos to neg. if the voltage is within spec under 14.6 with a fully charged battery and the battery still boils the battery is shot. checking from pos to engine or body ground will generally give a higher voltage if the ground is bad. if the wire from the alternator output has high resistance measuring from the alt output t0 ground will give a higher reading than across the battery. no shit and this is what i was saying all along. the voltage however does not have to be measured across the terminals in this case because as your examples have clearly demonstrated the voltage will not be higher at the battery than at these other measurement points and we are looking for an over voltage condition at the battery. as for the battery being shot that possibility has been substantially reduced as the op indicated that this condition is occurring with more than one battery so unless both of them are shot although still a possibility the problem seems to lie elsewhere. he said he used another 3 year old battery. what is the average lifespan of todays batteries just under 3 years - so the chances are pretty good he has two bad batteries. .

From : max dodge

you havent figured it out yet have you max and i derive great pleasure from watching you make an ass of yourself for instance theres a bet on whether you have the restraint not to reply to this post since it is you who keeps responding to what i say with these childish actions the one who is actually jumping through the hoops here is you lol and what makes it funnier yet is that you dont even know it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : max dodge

-- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving -- max give a man a match and he is warm for a short while. light him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life. on tue 23 aug 2005 040213 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote lets forget all the little biy squabling and answer the ops question. the voltage must be checked across the battery posts - pos to neg. if the voltage is within spec under 14.6 with a fully charged battery and the battery still boils the battery is shot. pretty much what gary was asking and i have said. no it wasnt and even if it were you both would still be wrong. all things that ive said should be verified. now that is about the most correct thing ever to come from you. too bad just about everything that you said in this thread will verify as incorrect. .

From : news

sorry to have caused such grief here at the ng. my son just called the car wouldnt start on its own but jump started ok. tomorrow ill bring the car home ill be putting a new battery in it for the drive home as the second battery from my father-in-laws ram charger 360 cidwont start the car now and start testing some of your solutions. i plan on monitoring the 1. battery voltage across the terminals and 2. the sense lead voltage at the alternator using the alternator ground on the trip home on two different digital volt meters. its about a thirty mile drive so something should show up. anything else i might want to check for on the drive home. on a passing note would using the old battery for the drive home be a better idea and keep the new one incase i need a jump start. thanks on tue 23 aug 2005 191540 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote on tue 23 aug 2005 040213 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote lets forget all the little biy squabling and answer the ops question. the voltage must be checked across the battery posts - pos to neg. if the voltage is within spec under 14.6 with a fully charged battery and the battery still boils the battery is shot. checking from pos to engine or body ground will generally give a higher voltage if the ground is bad. if the wire from the alternator output has high resistance measuring from the alt output t0 ground will give a higher reading than across the battery. no shit and this is what i was saying all along. the voltage however does not have to be measured across the terminals in this case because as your examples have clearly demonstrated the voltage will not be higher at the battery than at these other measurement points and we are looking for an over voltage condition at the battery. as for the battery being shot that possibility has been substantially reduced as the op indicated that this condition is occurring with more than one battery so unless both of them are shot although still a possibility the problem seems to lie elsewhere. he said he used another 3 year old battery. what is the average lifespan of todays batteries just under 3 years - so the chances are pretty good he has two bad batteries. .

From : Annonymous

this is a bit basic but is the battery securely mounted so that it does not bounce around my jeep had the hold-down bold rust away and the battery would nearly tip 45 degrees toward the engine. unlikely but worth a shot to ask... -jerry good point about that intermittent a bad sense point for example on the regulator say when it heats up could definitely cause the overcharge problem. and for the record i measured the battery voltage at the positive terminal of the battery and at the regulator plug with reference to chassis ground maybe i should have used engine ground technically they are the same. the sense lead runs through 2 fuses both good from the battery. ill have to hunt around for a peak hold volt meter are you suggesting that an over current drawing starter motor could also cause the battery to spit thanks t bone for the helpful comments. you have to take into account that your problem may be intermittent. just because the regulator behaves normally while on the bench or while idling in the driveway doesnt mean that it or its wiring is ok. you will need to keep a voltmeter connected in the car with you for a while to monitor it. if it has a peak hold capability that would be best but otherwise you will need to keep it in a place where you can see it without taking you eyes off of the road any more than you would to look at any other gauge. another thing to think of is that it is not voltage that causes a battery to vent and spit fluid it is current and high current can flow on both sides such as bad turns in the starter. i would probably look at the sense wire for the regulator and make sure that it is in-tact and has a good solid connection to whatever power source it is tapping from. a bad wire or connection here can cause your problems for sure. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving ok you guys seem to know it all thats not intended as a slight 91 plymouth laser i know dodge truck ng but it is a chrysler product and i do own a dodge truck and well you guys know it all. constant clear liquid around the battery especially around the top vents very corrosive. no the battery does not have a leak battery was three years old exchanged with another three year old battery same thing clear liquid around battery. constantly adding water to the battery. removed regulator from the car set it up on the test bench regulator turns on alternator at 13.8 volts and turns off the alternator field winding at 14.2 volts at about 70 degrees f. battery voltage measured at the alternator/regulator is the same as the voltage measured at the battery. this vehicle uses a separate wire to measure the battery voltage for the regulator tests ok same voltage at either end of the wire. with the car running the measured output voltage of the alternator is 14.2 volts. manual says voltage should be between 13.9 and 14.9 volts question is why am i boiling the batteries. car runs fine starts ok no other problems. .

From : tbone

can somebody tell me how to reset the check engine light disconnect the battery for 15 minutes. but why did it come on in the first place .

From : transurgeon

@twister.southeast.rr.com yes it does. cool thanks. -- regards slick willy remove the bendover to reply .

From : miles

my guess is that they made money on my trade. i seen my old truck in town today and looking at the paper tags it was only on the lot 3 days. dealers wont give the kbb trade in value. they give the current wholesale auction value. why would they give more than what they can get the same vehicle at auction my guess is it appeared they gave you kbb by cutting into their profit on the new vehicle. theyre making a ton of money on this employee pricing thing. i bought my 2004 last summer and paid about $1500 less than the current employee price. jay wrote just traded my 02 4.7l 4x4 dakota in on a 05 ram qc 4x4 hemi with 20 wheels. love the go power and the big beast will stop on a dime and give you back a nickel. gas mileage so far is 11.8 with 800 miles on the clock and no interstate just two lane highway and city. be ready to fight on the trade in price for your truck. it took me two days of fighting just to get kelly blue book trade in out of the dealer. .

From : max dodge

tom lawrence wrote the steering box seems to have no adjustment screw on top like the older dodge truck i had. also i put on new tires & shocks at 43000 miles but its still the same. there is an adjuster nut there - but first you need to determine if the slop is in the steering box or the intermediate shaft. have someone grab hold of the coupler right at the steering box with a big pair of pliers. then while holding firm you try and turn the wheel. if the slop is still there its due to worn u-joints in the steering shaft. if everything is tight then the play is in the box. if its the shaft theres not much you can do but replace it. if its the box the adjuster nut is located in the center of the sector shaft cover plate on the top of the box opposite the pitman arm. its a lock nut around an allen-head adjuster screw. loosen the locknut tighten the adjuster screw then re-tighten the locknut. now you need to be careful not to apply too much preload via the adjuster - youll cause even more wear to the gear. i wouldnt go any more than 1/4 turn on the adjuster screw. ive been told that its best to adjust the steering box at the full left or right turn steering wheel stop. the gear in the steering box wears the most in the center straight ahead position. if you adjust the play out of the gear in the center position it could bind at the full left/right steering extremes. can anyone back this theory up it sounds reasonable to me. along with that iirc there was some discussion at some point regarding adjustments with the wheels in the air or on the ground. roy .

From : tbone

can someone give me some ideas about how to increase the trucks power. if you can find a cummins mechanic that has his/her own shop they will have the computer codes that will increase your hp..... .

From : tbone

no it is a 2wd standard cab with automatic and hemi v8. about 30000 miles. martin .

From : tbone

-- max give a man a match and he is warm for a short while. light him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life. on tue 23 aug 2005 040213 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote lets forget all the little biy squabling and answer the ops question. the voltage must be checked across the battery posts - pos to neg. if the voltage is within spec under 14.6 with a fully charged battery and the battery still boils the battery is shot. pretty much what gary was asking and i have said. checking from pos to engine or body ground will generally give a higher voltage if the ground is bad. if the wire from the alternator output has high resistance measuring from the alt output t0 ground will give a higher reading than across the battery. all things that ive said should be verified. . 222 304730 x2noe.31229$1j2.376855@twister.southeast.rr.com since it is you who keeps responding to what i say with these childish actions the one who is actually jumping through the hoops here is you lol and what makes it funnier yet is that you dont even know it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : transurgeon

we are searching for the cause of over current thru the battery what do you think could cause that gary the only thing that can cause over current thru a good battery at full charge when the alt is operating is excess voltage and if you dont know that then you have some studying to do. where he took the measurements will have the highest voltage and since it is within spec over voltage is not the problem at the time of measurement because there is no way that the voltage at the battery could be higher than where he took the measurement. now a bad connection in the vr sensing wire could cause it to spike up the voltage for periods of time while driving which would cause excessive battery current or it could also be something sucking power during non-use periods causing the battery to deep cycle which would also cause excessive current flow during normal charging for a standard automotive battery but neither one of these conditions are going to be found by where you take the measurement. sorry but you are still wrong. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : Annonymous

azwiley1 wrote from looking at just the tech data i would go with the profile. are they any good the old profile line was the new one not too sure about only really worked with a handful of them. though never had any problems with them. dont worry too much about over powering your speakers. they will be able to handle a good bit more then rated as long as it is distortion free. you will blow your speakers with distortion faster then you will with clean high power. thanks for the advice. .

From : tbone

v8 318 5 speed manual has heavy duty rear end not the typical smaller one. limited slip/sure-grip too. i cant figure this one out. the truck makes noise like a howling sound i suppose and it sounds like its coming from the rear end to me. seems to do it only under load and only when im pressing on the gas to make the drive line work. if i step off the gas it goes silent. press down again on gas you hear the howl. usually best heard at moderate speeds like 35mph to 45mph although you can hear it at faster speeds too. ive put the truck up on stands and let it go cant hear a thing that way. nothing loose or obvious tell-tale signs of bad bearings when i turn the rear wheels by hand. universal joints are tight. also i hear a quick and short whine kind of like gears not meshing too well together thats just a guess as to what it sounds like. it makes that noise just as you start from a stop for only a second then quickly goes away. not everytime either. it usually does it when starting up an incline but doesnt have to be. just notice it a lot more starting up a hill or even slight slope. more load to overcome i suppose. cant tell if this is in the transmission or again the rear end. ive heard people describe this sound before with limited slip differentials usually when that friction modifier is not used. mine is using it i added it to the gear oil several years ago when i changed a rear axle seal. thx in advance for any help! -troy .

From : max dodge

dennis wrote i have a 97 dodge 3/4 ton hd with a 6 cylinder 5.9 liter 12 valve diesel. according to chrysler it puts out 235 hp. i pull a 7000lb 5th wheel with no problem. the manual says that the truck has a towing capacity of about 11500lbs. im considering a larger 5th wheel but im concerned about the horsepower of the truck versus the weight of a larger trailer. ive talked to the local dodge dealer about how to increase the hp but they are not very forthcoming with information. can someone give me some ideas about how to increase the trucks power. thanks read this http//www.dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/morepower/powerp7100.htm .

From : max dodge

hi guys hoping someone can help me. i recently developed a rubbing noise in my truck while turning. it occurs in forward and reverse but not every time i turn. if i press the break while turning it does not seem to have an effect on the rubbing noise. can anyone give me an idea what this might be the noise does not seem to be tremendously loud and if the radio is on i can hardly hear it. again thanks for any help you can give me. joe .

From : transurgeon

i have a 97 dodge 3/4 ton hd with a 6 cylinder 5.9 liter 12 valve diesel. according to chrysler it puts out 235 hp. i pull a 7000lb 5th wheel with no problem. the manual says that the truck has a towing capacity of about 11500lbs. im considering a larger 5th wheel but im concerned about the horsepower of the truck versus the weight of a larger trailer. ive talked to the local dodge dealer about how to increase the hp but they are not very forthcoming with information. can someone give me some ideas about how to increase the trucks power. thanks .

From : max dodge

years to fix that mistake or why anyone would hide these common maintenance items in the first place. the bypass hose yeah - but ive changed out several thermostats on 5.2l and 5.9l engines and never had to mess with the compressor or alternator. it takes a little wiggling to get the thermostat housing out but its certainly doable. once out i would always slice off the little tab that says front which made it much easier to replace id put a little paint dot to indicate the front - though i have no idea why - the piece is completely symmetrical. ditto on the rest of the hoses upper rad is simple - lower is easy enough from underneath... its just that little pos bypass hose thats the major problem. .

From : tbone

good point about that intermittent a bad sense point for example on the regulator say when it heats up could definitely cause the overcharge problem. and for the record i measured the battery voltage at the positive terminal of the battery and at the regulator plug with reference to chassis ground maybe i should have used engine ground technically they are the same. the sense lead runs through 2 fuses both good from the battery. ill have to hunt around for a peak hold volt meter are you suggesting that an over current drawing starter motor could also cause the battery to spit thanks t bone for the helpful comments. no problem. another thing that you might want to look at is if something is now constantly drawing current from the battery such as a glove compartment or trunk light that is stuck on and causing the battery to deep cycle. this will also cause excessive current flow in the battery while charging that could cause venting. a bad starter winding could have a similar effect. during your tests put a current meter between the battery and its positive connection with everything as you would have it while parked at night and see how much current is being drawn. it should be close to if not zero and if not you need to find out what is drawing it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : max dodge

lol you really dont have a clue. if the alternator is charging or overcharging which btw is the entire point of this post the voltage at the battery terminals will never be higher. measuring from the battey positive to ground or the negative terminal makes no difference in this case. 14.2v is acceptable from either location. sure it makes a difference in one case there is no resistance possible in the other you open the possibility to all sorts of resistance. certainly the voltage you list is acceptable to the system thats not the issue. the question is whether or not the battery was designed with this in mind likely it was whether or not the battery is being accurately monitored by the vr and whether the battery is big enough to sustain the draw of the starter under normal conditions and the charging of the system under normal conditions. lol it is fun to watch you spin. resistance is not only possible it is a guarantee unless you have invented the perfect material to make your connections and wires out of. as for the battery being accuratly monitored lol. if the voltage is within spec that is all that matters. no doubt that the battery voltage will never be higher under a charging condition however were still open on the issue of whether or not the vr is seeing the same voltage as what can be found across the terminals. who cares what the vr sees across the terminals. the only thing that matters is what the voltage actually is. if it is sitting at 14.2 then the vr is function properly despite your spin. that is correct but since we are charging the alternator is the source of the voltage not the battery and since the alternator grounds thru its case the output terminals are the alt output connection + and the engine block - not the battery. terrific and since the alternator is putting out specified voltage it must be grounded just fine. never said otherwise. is this more spin if so then you just spun yourself. btw we are concerned about the voltage being applied to the battery not the voltage of the battery itself. pay attention for a change maxi. ahh yes pay attention yourself. how does the charging system determine output voltage thats right it monitors battery voltage. actually no it doesnt. it monitors system voltage and could give a rats ass about the battery. once running the battery does little more than to act like a giant filter cap to smooth out the mess of crap comming out of the alternator and to serve as a reserve if and when the current requirements exceed the alternators capability at a given time especially in an older vehicle. so while we are concerned with the voltage being applied charging voltage we also need to figure out how that voltage was determined. lol we need do no such thing at least not as far as what the op said he is concerned with. 14.2v is 14.2v regardless of where the measurment is taken especially with regard to ground. as such since the vr seems to behave properly on a bench test we must then look at the switching voltage it sees and determine if that accurately reflects the actual voltage of the battery. funny if you read it the op did exactly this test!! thus.... gary asks the question are you measuring battery voltage between the terminals or from positive to ground a perfectly valid question since we want to know how accurate the info regarding the battery voltage is. it matters not what the output voltage of the alternator is so long as its in spec and is switched properly. if the alternator is putting out 14.2v but the vr isnt getting a proper reading of battery voltage and sees it as too low then we have a great place to find overcharging. hahahahahahahahaha you really dont have a clue. the voltage is 14.2v because the vr set it there. no he isnt and that makes absolutely no sense at all. if the vr was being fooled into overcharging the voltage would be much higher than the measured 14.2 at the alternator output which is always the same or higher than the voltage at the battery terminals under charge conditions. if the 14.2 was measured at the battery terminals themselves it is still within accepted voltage range regardless of the possible voltage at the alternator output. unless of course that little intermittant word you do remember bringing it up creeps in and blows your whole theory. how does intermittence blow out my theory oh thats right it doesnt. but lets assume its a constant..... if the vr never sees 14.2 but does see a constant lower voltage say... 14.0v itll keep charging that battery at a rate designed to bring it up just a bit but never sees it come up. lol you really are kidding right!! the purpose of the vr is not now nor has it ever been to precisely monitor or control the charging of the battery. perhaps you should look up the real purpose of the vr before responding. here is a hint.

From : nirodac

looks like max hit it...........two defective batteries ok guys heres whats current. step 1 1. old battery was a delco bought it 2002 2. second battery had a mopar label but suspect it was exide about three years of life. both batteries spewing liquid much corrosion on car. just replaced battery with brand new exide battery over rated for this vehicle more cca 525 car requires 430. what i found on the drive home. install of new battery before cranking engine voltage is 12.6 volts. after cranking engine with engine running 14.36 volts 2 minutes after starting battery voltage is 14.19 volts. with a fluke dvm connected to the battery for 27 km battery voltage varied between 14.09 at a stop light to 14.21 at 70km per hour no load beyond engine draw. at idle with full current draw rear window defog head lights and blower battery voltage was 13.86. idle voltage with no current draw beyond engine and driving lights was a battery voltage of 14.09 volts. time to recovery from a full load idle was about 1 min. air temp was about 25 degrees c. it should be noted that i was also monitoring the sense voltage on a second meter at the alternator voltage reg input and that voltage was about .5 volts lower but followed the battery voltage and never changed beyond always being about 5 volts less than the battery. for 27 km the monitored battery voltage never exceeded 14.35 volts. step 2 attached a third dvm to monitor the current output of the alternator 250 amp shunt installed in series with the output. with the day time running lights and always on side markers disabled removed fuses the current from the alternator was 15 amps seems high to me. moved the shunt to the battery current into the battery was 5 amps at start but was decreasing to 4.16 after about 15 minutes idle speed. battery voltage was now about 13.70 volts. manual says when the regulator operates above 60 degrees c that the reg voltage is 13.4 to 14.6. the alternator housing containing the regulator was to hot to hold your hand on. at no time during any of this testing did the battery voltage exceed 14.5 volts. and for the record the key out of the ignition current draw was 125 milliamps. so unless i can find some other problem my best guess for an answer is two bad batteries with the same fault. test instruments tell me that the system is operating normal the only variable was the battery. after about 50km of driving there is no sign of fluid leakage from the battery. at no time did any of the three batteries feel warm to the touch. the second battery mopar had a specific gravity reading in the white zone between green and red but this could have been because we had added water. the first battery was sealed and un testable. i hope i havent caused to much grief in this group and thank you tbone and all the others for your recommendations and suggestions. i now know more about batteries and charge systems than i ever wanted to know. now i just need to know how to stop all the battery acid corrosion. i have washed everything with baking soda and water but it still seems to be corroding. hahahahahahaha you really are funny. while current may be measured in amps voltage is the force that causes current flow and current is simply how much is flowing. the higher the system voltage is above the battery voltage state of charge the more current is going to flow into it so as i said both the 14.2 and the batteries state of charge has everything to do with it. once again you demonstrate your complete ignorance of even simple dc circuits. so now the state of charge is part of it well duh no kidding. but im still talking about the condition of the battery not just the state of charge. and its interesting that youve argued in the past that volts had nothing to do with current now you claim it has everything to do with it. does that merry go round yer on have a colliape hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha oh please stop you are killing me. can you really be this dumb first of all if you are talking about current you cannot measure that across the terminals of the battery lol. um yeah ya can. see load testers have this neat little resistance bank in them makes a bunch of heat but generally does a good job of checking current output of a battery. available at any good auto parts place. second unless you disconnect at least one of the terminals of the battery from the system to isolate it the system is still connected and will still influence your readings. right but i figured that was so elementary that if you actually knew what you were doing youd know to pull the negative terminal. third only an idiot would attempt to load test the battery with the engine running i never said to load test it with the engine running. indeed i never gave any specific instructions or conditions under which

From : miles

max dodge wrote 200 250 makes little difference to a battery really. both are higher than optimum for a battery. thus 3 years avg is logical despite your blustering. batteries do wear out faster in say phoenix than in los angeles. storing a battery in 115 degree weather vs. 75 will make a difference. .

From : max dodge

funny....... i thought this was the usa. do you really think if we all drove 4 cylinders the gas prices would go down. im just so glad we have all that iraqi oil! mac davis wrote on 23 aug 2005 223601 -0700 enough already enoughalready@lycos.com wrote fredric l. rice wrote fuel rule change for big s.u.v.s seen as unlikely scott olson/getty imagesthe hummer h2 is among s.u.v.s that may be exempt from new rules. friends shouldnt let friends drive suvs http//tinyurl.com/a4o7t .

From : max dodge

sorry i ment to say doesnt mean jack crap. hp does mean jack crap when it comes to a diesel. a 400hp semi will pull 80000 lbs but has 1400 to 1600 ft. lbs.of torque. says... i have a 97 dodge 3/4 ton hd with a 6 cylinder 5.9 liter 12 valve diesel. according to chrysler it puts out 235 hp. i pull a 7000lb 5th wheel with no problem. the manual says that the truck has a towing capacity of about 11500lbs. im considering a larger 5th wheel but im concerned about the horsepower of the truck versus the weight of a larger trailer. ive talked to the local dodge dealer about how to increase the hp but they are not very forthcoming with information. can someone give me some ideas about how to increase the trucks power. thanks 235 hp i dont think so. auto trans 180 hp. manual trans 215 hp. -- bruce grant westminster md 95 2500 club 4x4w/dynatrac manual hubs cummins/auto 265/70rx19.5g .

From : max dodge

tbone wrote i said no such thing and 14.2 volts has everything to do with how much current is flowing into the battery along with the batteries state of charge. you saying that the charge rate of a battery is defined by the voltage since it has everything to do with how much current dang i coulda bought an el cheapo charger and charged my battery just as fast. .

From : miles

have a 98 ram quad-cab 1500-4x4-5.2l my truck wanders all over the lane while driving on a flat road and pulls to the right when driving in the outside slightly crowned lane. i bought this truck new with 25 miles on it and it now has 48500 miles but drives the same way. i had the dealer check the front end alignment many times but it always drives the same. they always say everything is in spec. it seems to have a lot of neutral slop in the steering wheel -about 1 and im always correcting left or right instead of holding it steady. the steering box seems to have no adjustment screw on top like the older dodge truck i had. also i put on new tires & shocks at 43000 miles but its still the same. anyone have any ideas. ed .

From : Annonymous

if the speed sensor is bad shouldnt it effect the cruise speedo odometer trip computer or something when it gets very bad yes. it may just be generating an erratic signal right now which the abs computer is particularly sensitive to. when it gets worse your speedo will either not function at all or only above a certain speed. ditto with the odometer. if the speedo is working cruise control isnt affected. the sensors about a $30 part either from dealer or aftermarket and takes all of 5 minutes to change. $300.... i really hate people like that. go ahead mike... defend that one. cant defend that one but if the dealer took the diff back apart looking for a problem along with the brakes etc. that could have run the cost up to that range. wish i could be of more help but i unlike some others in the group cant intelligently comment or pass judgement on what i dont have all the info on mike come on mike mac is one of the good guys here. you have a truck. you have a trailer. you have vacation. ca isnt that far. becides he would buy you a beer and id come down and buy the second round. yeah i know hes one of the few good guys and i would truly love to help if i could but sadly in about two weeks im headed east instead of west. on the evening september 16th i hope to be firmly ensconced in a my lawn chair non-heated! on the beach at camp lejeune nc enjoying a cold n frosty! btw have you seen the video going around of the iraqi attempting to fire an rpg from a kneeling position in the street 1.2meg nope havent seen that one. whats the url mike -- fmb only one b in fmb .

From : Annonymous

on tue 23 aug 2005 205827 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote tbone wrote really all of the batteries that i own are 5 years. where do you buy yours try living in arizona. 115 degree summers kills em. mines 4 years old which is a rarity here. 3 is average. up here in southern ontario with 90 degree f summers underhood temps even without running the engine routinely reach 140. yes heat kills batteries. so does 0 degree f cold!!! you know what happens when you get both. .

From : Annonymous

on wed 24 aug 2005 025357 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote really all of the batteries that i own are 5 years. where do you buy yours the industry standard average lifesapan is under 3 years. i have had many go well over that - but i usually overspec my batteries so even at half capacity i still get by. the battery i replaced in my transsport last year was less than 2 years old and would start the vehicle just fine under normal conditions - but occaisionally was just plain dead. fifteen minutes later it might just decide to start the van. that is the only battery i have ever seen fool a midtronics tester. i checked it and it said bad - so i had the battery guy check it - and it passed.he said i had a bad battery connection. less than an hour later the truck would not start - and it showed bad again. battery was replaced under warrranty.no problems since. except when i left my 200+ma load connected for 2 weeks while i flew off to alaska for holidays. with better than 84 amp hours of power pulled from the battery it wasnt going anywhere when my daughter went to start it to pick me up from the airport. quick recharge and good as new. .

From : tbone

iow you are still wrong and you know it but feel free to explain it. gary has you pegged you are like a pup yipping at the masters heels. you cant resist a chance to bark at him no matter what. go ahead reply. you know you want to you cannot resist. -- max give a man a match and he is warm for a short while. light him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life. iow you are still wrong and you know it but feel free to explain it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving just saving time asshole the explanation involves percentages lol pretty good at dishing it out but completely incapable of taking it lol. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving piss off alright genius how is that going to make any difference. at best the voltage between the battery positive and the engine ground will be higher than at both terminals of the battery while the alternator is working. do you need a lesson on the current path during charging too -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving are you measuring the running-charging-voltage at both battery terminals or between positive and engine ground ok you guys seem to know it all thats not intended as a slight 91 plymouth laser i know dodge truck ng but it is a chrysler product and i do own a dodge truck and well you guys know it all. constant clear liquid around the battery especially around the top vents very corrosive. no the battery does not have a leak battery was three years old exchanged with another three year old battery same thing clear liquid around battery. constantly adding water to the battery. removed regulator from the car set it up on the test bench regulator turns on alternator at 13.8 volts and turns off the alternator field winding at 14.2 volts at about 70 degrees f. battery voltage measured at the alternator/regulator is the same as the voltage measured at the battery. this vehicle uses a separate wire to measure the battery voltage for the regulator tests ok same voltage at either end of the wire. with the car running the measured output voltage of the alternator is 14.2 volts. manual says voltage should be between 13.9 and 14.9 volts question is why am i boiling the batteries. car runs fine starts ok no other problems. .

From : max dodge

alright genius how is that going to make any difference. and you wonder whjy people take exception to you... yawn not in your case maxi. we all know that you are just desperate for attention and usually wrong like now. at best the voltage between the battery positive and the engine ground will be higher than at both terminals of the battery while the alternator is working. do you need a lesson on the current path during charging too really unless the battery has a dead cell voltage across the terminals has every possibility of being higher than battery positive to ground. lol you really dont have a clue. if the alternator is charging or overcharging which btw is the entire point of this post the voltage at the battery terminals will never be higher. measuring from the battey positive to ground or the negative terminal makes no difference in this case. 14.2v is acceptable from either location. typically remember that lesson you wanted to hand out there will be more resistance in a circuit that across the terminals themselves. that is correct but since we are charging the alternator is the source of the voltage not the battery and since the alternator grounds thru its case the output terminals are the alt output connection + and the engine block - not the battery. btw we are concerned about the voltage being applied to the battery not the voltage of the battery itself. pay attention for a change maxi. gary is simply trying to establish if that possible resistance is causing the vr to keep charging the battery when it shouldnt. no he isnt and that makes absolutely no sense at all. if the vr was being fooled into overcharging the voltage would be much higher than the measured 14.2 at the alternator output which is always the same or higher than the voltage at the battery terminals under charge conditions. if the 14.2 was measured at the battery terminals themselves it is still within accepted voltage range regardless of the possible voltage at the alternator output. btw his piss off response also proves that he was not trying to do this so you appear to be once again wrong on multiple levels lol. maybe you should shut up unless you have something construcive to add. i did have something constructive to say to the op which is more than i can say about you and as i have said before to you in regard to this last sentence from you pkb. now are you going to jump thru some more hoops and falsely accuse me of name calling again lol -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : Annonymous

i did mine by removing it from the truck had to remove the door panel to get at the bolts then the screws that you tighten to increase the tension are exposed by removing 3 screws. a bit of a pain to do but it was worth it! -jerry anybody know how to snug up the arm so they dont swing back in the wind i assume theres a nut under that plastic cowling but i cant see a way to get it off without breaking it. thanks cricket .

From : Annonymous

on wed 24 aug 2005 043319 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote yea well that is abusive heat and i would expect a premature failure. i was referring to the rating of the battery and all of mine claim 5 years but then again i dont buy the cheap batteries. so you mean they are 60 month rated batteries right how old are they ive had scads of lifetime batteries last exactly that long - the lifetime of the battery - which was between 6 weeks and 3 years. never had a lifetime guaranteed battery - die-hard canadian tire or whatever last 3 years without warranty replacement. half the time you are cheaper to buy a new battery outright than to pay the pro rata replacement cost of a battery over one or two years old in the case of fixed length battery warranties. i dont buy cheap batteries either. sometimes i get lucky and get inexpensive batteries. .

From : max dodge

i tow a lot with our ram and have always used 8 ply.. is there a road condition that youre hitting that requires 10 mac reply i go on alot of construction sites with jagged ground rocks stones glass etc... gross weight of vehicle with cargo is pushing 7000 lbs.. i wear out 8 ply passenger tires out pretty quickly. .

From : Annonymous

on wed 24 aug 2005 050622 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote excellent point. one that would be found if the op disregarded tbones insistance that checking across the terminals is unnecessary. how would checking across the terminals determine a bad battery you mean you dont know nope and neither do you. checking across the terminals will not show you anything that the positive to ground would not show. wrong again maxi!!! hey t boner - i have many times found problems with the ground connection between the engine and the battery that would screw up a load test and just about any other test you might try to do to a starting/charging system if you did not first do a battery condition test with the test equipment of your choice - mine is the midtronics tester connected directly to the battery. once the battery has been given an unconditional clean bill of health you can accurately test the rest of the system if you have half a clue how to go about it in a systematic manner. 1 a static check after sitting a while would show a low voltage thus enhancing tbones idea of too much starter draw. the battery would have to be just about dead before the voltage would be low enough to see it and would have nothing to do with starter draw since the alt charges it back up right after the started hammers it. care to try again well i would but at this point im laughing too hard. see you just proved your bullshit starter draw then recharge theory to be just so much rubbish. no you just dont understand it. once the engine has run for a while the battery would have been recharged so how would a static check at its terminals afterwards show you anyhting the only one spewing rubbish is you but is is fun watching you spin yourself into such a deep hole. if there is either a load on the system or a bad battery the surface charge will dissipate relatively quickly bringing the voltage down from the initial 12.6 nominal volts within a short time. any change in voltage between about 15 seconds after shutting down the vehicle and half an hour later means something isnt quite right. and checking anywhere but across the battery can point you in the wrong direction. 2 a check while charging would confirm proper voltage to the battery. no shit and why i suggested keeping a volt meter hooked up while driving. im not sure why you need it while driving. its gonna charge while the car sits still just the same as it does going down the road. another bullshit idea. no just your stupidity and ignorance shining through. remeber that intermittent problem that we were talking about. the only way they can be found is to keep watching until it happens again. there could be a heat or vibration problem causing the vr to screw up and the only way to see it is by monitoring the vehicle under normal conditions as it does what it does. you have this one point in your favour. if it is an intermittent problem you can only find it when it manifests itself - but my bet is still on a bad battery. intermittent voltage regulation problems usually manifest themselves with symptoms like blower motor speed variation lights flaring noise in the radio etc as well as significant variation in either voltmeter or ammeter readings if the vehicle is so equipped since the charging system in a car is not designed with deep cycle recharging in mind and the average car battery is not designed for deep cycle use either you will get more current flow in the battery than it was designed for during recharge and that can cause excessive venting and spitting. maybe im just being silly but i do believe that is why they specifically make deep cycle batteries. it is quite obvious to me we are not talking about a deep cycle problem here - the op did not mention a history of cronic hard starting - which would be evident if the battery was deeply discharged. lol what a complete load of shit. if he was using the same battery and didnt swap it out i would have suggested that he have the battery checked but since he did with exactly the same problem it seems unlikely that the battery is to blame. except he swapped it out with another 3 year old battery of unknown condition. the fact that it would not start shows that an unexpected current draw may in fact be the problem as this second battery is also an older battery and may not have the reserve that the one he swapped out had. it also sounded like this second battery came out of another car and unless it was having these problems in the car it was in before this it is not the damn battery. now if you had thought of checking the battery before now you would have said it then as you always do. all of these depend on checking across the terminals not to ground and the positive terminal. every one of these can be done with a connection between ground and the positive terminal of the battery but w

From : miles

yea if the el-cheapo charger could maintain the voltage as a steady dc voltage you would be correct. the problem is that most cheep chargers do not have the current capability and the battery will pull their voltage down while charging. i would think that you of all people would know this. am i wrong -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tbone wrote i said no such thing and 14.2 volts has everything to do with how much current is flowing into the battery along with the batteries state of charge. you saying that the charge rate of a battery is defined by the voltage since it has everything to do with how much current dang i coulda bought an el cheapo charger and charged my battery just as fast. .

From : max dodge

if the speed sensor is bad shouldnt it effect the cruise speedo odometer trip computer or something when it gets very bad yes. it may just be generating an erratic signal right now which the abs computer is particularly sensitive to. when it gets worse your speedo will either not function at all or only above a certain speed. ditto with the odometer. if the speedo is working cruise control isnt affected. the sensors about a $30 part either from dealer or aftermarket and takes all of 5 minutes to change. $300.... i really hate people like that. go ahead mike... defend that one. cant defend that one but if the dealer took the diff back apart looking for a problem along with the brakes etc. that could have run the cost up to that range. wish i could be of more help but i unlike some others in the group cant intelligently comment or pass judgement on what i dont have all the info on mike come on mike mac is one of the good guys here. you have a truck. you have a trailer. you have vacation. ca isnt that far. becides he would buy you a beer and id come down and buy the second round. btw have you seen the video going around of the iraqi attempting to fire an rpg from a kneeling position in the street 1.2meg -- fmb only one b in fmb .

From : Annonymous

on wed 24 aug 2005 043107 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote lol no matter how low i think your knowlege is you jump in and prove me wrong by showing it to be much lower. locked armature starter current on a 59 olds was305 amps - and no load current was 100 amps. on a 61 olds it was 370 locked armature and 120 no load. no load current on a 1983 chrysler 360 was 90 amps and locked armature a mere 180 amps. most 4 cyl and v6 engines today run closer to 45 amps no load and 150 locked armature - with average cranking current less than 120 amps for less than 5 seconds. that is less than point two amp hours of battery capacity required to start the engine on todays vehicle whereas my old 57 fargo usually cranked for 15 seconds at 200 amps - which figures out to point eight amp hours. if the trunk had a 60 amp generator on it and charged at the full rate which it would not do it would charge for about a minute. at 30 amps it would charge for about 2 minutes. at 15 amps 4 minutes. in real world operating conditions the battery would reach a full state of charge in less than 10 minutes of charging at below 10 amps. on todays cars you are dividing that time by 4. frankly i cannot see this being an issue with regards to battery water usage. even your claim that recharging after a long draw and then a short huge draw wtfit is suspect as the system design takes into account the battery in that system and is designed not to cook the battery. yea max under normal conditions you would be right but that constant draw is not a normal condition and unless the person is using a deep cycle battery the battery is not designed for that either. many times my van sits with a 200ma draw 2.4 watts for an entire weekend say 3 days or 72 hours and starts with no problem and the battery recharges with no gassing or water loss. batteries generally last me about 3 years or more - my toyota went 7 years on the original but most are ready have been to be retired by the end of 4 years. so once again youve discussed things that are irrelevant. just because you dont understand it does not make it irrevelant. if the voltage was below 12.6 id agree you might possibly have a load problem - but it would in my opinion have to be significantly lower - like 11 or so. what are you talking about here a battery voltage of 12.6 or a system voltage of 12.6 if you dont know then you shouldnt be part of this discussion. you should be the last person to say this when it is obvious that you dont have a clue about the function of the charging system with your voltage means nothing bs and yet here you are. btw he was talking battery voltage. are you so sure about that depending on the battery type 12.6 static measure would be from fully charged to 3/4 charged and 11 would be stone cold dead again static measure in all types so if the battery was a low maintenance or a cheep battery 12.6 would be fully charged. ill speek for myself. battery voltage with the engine running system charging and whatever load applied to the system to reduce charging voltage to 12.6 or less. 12.6 volts with the charging system functioning means the load is drawing the entire output of the charging system. any less means the load is drawing all the system can produce plus it is drawing from the battery. not a very likely situation - which is my point. .

From : max dodge

on wed 24 aug 2005 032222 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote on tue 23 aug 2005 213139 gmt transurgeon nobulltrans@mchsi.dotcom wrote on tue 23 aug 2005 040213 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote lets forget all the little biy squabling and answer the ops question. the voltage must be checked across the battery posts - pos to neg. if the voltage is within spec under 14.6 with a fully charged battery and the battery still boils the battery is shot. checking from pos to engine or body ground will generally give a higher voltage if the ground is bad. if the wire from the alternator output has high resistance measuring from the alt output t0 ground will give a higher reading than across the battery. no shit and this is what i was saying all along. the voltage however does not have to be measured across the terminals in this case because as your examples have clearly demonstrated the voltage will not be higher at the battery than at these other measurement points and we are looking for an over voltage condition at the battery. no numb nuts we are searching for the cause of over current thru the battery and the only two things that can cause overcurrent through the battery with the engine running and the battery being charged which it obviously is at 14.2 volts are too high a charging voltage which it is not at 14.2 volts or a defective battery. wrong! if something is pulling a reasonable current from the battery constantly like 150 to 500 mills between that and the huge draw from the starter followed by a 14.2 voltage being applied to it it can send a reasonably high current into the battery for a fairly long period of time. perhaps you should learn a little something about batteries. i know about batteries. one thing the op did not tell us is what the initial charging voltage is after a restart and preferably what the charging current is. initial charging voltage on a healthy partly discharged battery will be significantly below 14.2 volts. as long as the charging voltage is within parameters a healthy battery will not gas excessively even if the battery state of charge is down. now a battery with basic health issues is a horse of an entirely different colour. im still voting for 2 sulphated or otherwise worn out 3 year old batteries if the voltage was below 12.6 id agree you might possibly have a load problem - but it would in my opinion have to be significantly lower - like 11 or so. what are you talking about here a battery voltage of 12.6 or a system voltage of 12.6 unless you have significant system resistance both will be the same within no more than 0.2 volts .

From : max dodge

yea well that is abusive heat and i would expect a premature failure. i was referring to the rating of the battery and all of mine claim 5 years but then again i dont buy the cheap batteries. so sitting next to engine exhaust is what kind of heat i mean its only about 200f under the hood right -- max give a man a match and he is warm for a short while. light him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life. yea well that is abusive heat and i would expect a premature failure. i was referring to the rating of the battery and all of mine claim 5 years but then again i dont buy the cheap batteries. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tbone wrote really all of the batteries that i own are 5 years. where do you buy yours try living in arizona. 115 degree summers kills em. mines 4 years old which is a rarity here. 3 is average. .

From : miles

excellent point. one that would be found if the op disregarded tbones insistance that checking across the terminals is unnecessary. how would checking across the terminals determine a bad battery you mean you dont know 1 a static check after sitting a while would show a low voltage thus enhancing tbones idea of too much starter draw. the battery would have to be just about dead before the voltage would be low enough to see it and would have nothing to do with starter draw since the alt charges it back up right after the started hammers it. care to try again well i would but at this point im laughing too hard. see you just proved your bullshit starter draw then recharge theory to be just so much rubbish. 2 a check while charging would confirm proper voltage to the battery. no shit and why i suggested keeping a volt meter hooked up while driving. im not sure why you need it while driving. its gonna charge while the car sits still just the same as it does going down the road. another bullshit idea. 3 a check after being charged and another an hour later would indicate battery condition. true but it wouldnt say what was hurting it. exactly thats why your silly 150-500 mills draw is bullshit too. 4 a load test wouldnt hurt. yea that would tell you the actual c

From : tbone

if sticking your head in the sand makes you feel better go for it but in reality you just dont know shit about this subject and you know it. actually wed prefer it if you stuck your head in the sand. much less noise and embarassment than when you stick it up your ass like this time the weightless helium and the lack of ability to understand percentages. as i said yer done but feel free to post again. i think that you should stick to these types of posts. at least here you just look childish instead of both childish and ignorant. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

yea well that is abusive heat and i would expect a premature failure. i was referring to the rating of the battery and all of mine claim 5 years but then again i dont buy the cheap batteries. so sitting next to engine exhaust is what kind of heat i mean its only about 200f under the hood right and you think that temperature will not be at least 50 degrees hotter under the hood in 115 degree temps -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

you want to buy a used car need a vehicle history report. make sure you are getting what you paid for. it cost $25 for carfax report but since i just bought my car. i still have the account. i can do a report for anyone for $5 let me know email me at yoshiguy2002@yahoo.com .

From : tbone

this is what happen to me i called the dealership and spoke to a sales person in regards to price comparison for a grand caravan. i told him that i had a price quote on a 2006 and 2005 dodge grand caravan sxt. i told him that i made a down payment and told him my final out the door price. he said he will speak to the general manager tony and then call me back. tony the gm calls me back and says to stop down with my quote/purchase receipe and he will beat the price i gave him. i said are you sure dont make me drive all the way there to waste my time and you dont have what im looking for. he said come on down ill beat it. a couple of hours later the sales person calls and asked me if i was coming down and i told him yes i will be there after work. he said their open until 10pm well i drive all the way there which is the springfield rt 22 w dealer arrived around 6pm and tony the gm and the sales person are both gone for the day. another sales person asked if i needed help and i explained what i just mentioned above. at one point it seem that 3 or 4 sales people were on it. none of the sales people there had any idea what i was talking aboutbecause tony did not inform anyone about this so they called tony c. or tony s. and he said to look on the lot to see if we have anything with a similar msrp. i said to myselfif you have anythingi thought you had it all covered. we looked at the entire lot for a similar dodge grand caravan and we found nothing similar. i was upset that he lied to get me all the way there just to get me in the door to waste my time and he himself or the original sales person wasnt there. tried to get me in the door to sell me something that im not looking for.be aware of the tatics that tony and his crew use at the rt 22 springfield dodge use. .

From : tbone

many auto-parts stores will let you use theirs in the hopes of selling you some parts. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving it was running rough. is there a way to check codes i.e. have the engine light flash unfortunately no not on a 99. you need to get an obd-ii scan tool to retrieve the codes. .

From : max dodge

tbone wrote really all of the batteries that i own are 5 years. where do you buy yours try living in arizona. 115 degree summers kills em. mines 4 years old which is a rarity here. 3 is average. .

From : max dodge

wrong! if something is pulling a reasonable current from the battery constantly like 150 to 500 mills between that and the huge draw from the starter followed by a 14.2 voltage being applied to it it can send a reasonably high current into the battery for a fairly long period of time. perhaps you should learn a little something about batteries. maybe you should as well. reasonably high isnt a technical term anyone here recognizes as something specific. id say you are waffling and had. that is because you are trying to hide from being wrong as usual. i am using relative terms because i dont know the specific values and neither do you. a battery charging voltage of 14.2 has little or nothing to do with the actual current flowing in the battery as youve so eloquently stated time after time. i said no such thing and 14.2 volts has everything to do with how much current is flowing into the battery along with the batteries state of charge. thus im not sure why you bothered to use it as a reason for the battery getting a reasonably high current. the state of charge determins how much current will flow into the battery at a given voltage and if the battery is already weakened by an unintended prolonged current draw from something like an illuminated glove compartment light the added pull from the starter will make it worse the huge draw from the starter is likewise unmeasured. lol there is no need to specifically measure it as it is only compounding the problem in this possible cause of the problem. you have no idea what the particular starter is drawing and it seems like you dont know what an actual starter draws period. lol i dont see any numbers comming from you. most starters do not draw near what the battery is rated for on a constant draw. initial spike might exceed battery rating but in a well designed and maintained system this too is unlikely. gee max near ratings and might exceed ratings are not exactly technical terms anyone here recognizes as something specific either so as is said many times to you pkb! further unless the vehicle is particularly hard starting starter draw is for short period of time and will not induce battery boiling. lol no matter how low i think your knowlege is you jump in and prove me wrong by showing it to be much lower. even your claim that recharging after a long draw and then a short huge draw wtfit is suspect as the system design takes into account the battery in that system and is designed not to cook the battery. yea max under normal conditions you would be right but that constant draw is not a normal condition and unless the person is using a deep cycle battery the battery is not designed for that either. so once again youve discussed things that are irrelevant. just because you dont understand it does not make it irrevelant. if the voltage was below 12.6 id agree you might possibly have a load problem - but it would in my opinion have to be significantly lower - like 11 or so. what are you talking about here a battery voltage of 12.6 or a system voltage of 12.6 if you dont know then you shouldnt be part of this discussion. you should be the last person to say this when it is obvious that you dont have a clue about the function of the charging system with your voltage means nothing bs and yet here you are. btw he was talking battery voltage. are you so sure about that depending on the battery type 12.6 static measure would be from fully charged to 3/4 charged and 11 would be stone cold dead again static measure in all types so if the battery was a low maintenance or a cheep battery 12.6 would be fully charged. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

are you suggesting that an over current drawing starter motor could also cause the battery to spit hes definitely suggesting it but i think its a real stretch to have that happen. if a starter drew that many amps and still functioned properly it would lead to the conclusion that the battery was far too small. of course you havent mentioned either the load or the size of the battery so thats a possibility from where i sit. however you seem to have a handle on it so thats a question you should have an easy answer for. -- max give a man a match and he is warm for a short while. light him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life. good point about that intermittent a bad sense point for example on the regulator say when it heats up could definitely cause the overcharge problem. and for the record i measured the battery voltage at the positive terminal of the battery and at the regulator plug with reference to chassis ground maybe i should have used engine ground technically they are the same. the sense lead runs through 2 fuses both good from the battery. ill have to hunt around for a peak hold volt meter are you suggesting that an over current drawing starter motor could also cause the battery to spit thanks t bone for the helpful comments. you have to take into account that your problem may be intermittent. just because the regulator behaves normally while on the bench or while idling in the driveway doesnt mean that it or its wiring is ok. you will need to keep a voltmeter connected in the car with you for a while to monitor it. if it has a peak hold capability that would be best but otherwise you will need to keep it in a place where you can see it without taking you eyes off of the road any more than you would to look at any other gauge. another thing to think of is that it is not voltage that causes a battery to vent and spit fluid it is current and high current can flow on both sides such as bad turns in the starter. i would probably look at the sense wire for the regulator and make sure that it is in-tact and has a good solid connection to whatever power source it is tapping from. a bad wire or connection here can cause your problems for sure. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving ok you guys seem to know it all thats not intended as a slight 91 plymouth laser i know dodge truck ng but it is a chrysler product and i do own a dodge truck and well you guys know it all. constant clear liquid around the battery especially around the top vents very corrosive. no the battery does not have a leak battery was three years old exchanged with another three year old battery same thing clear liquid around battery. constantly adding water to the battery. removed regulator from the car set it up on the test bench regulator turns on alternator at 13.8 volts and turns off the alternator field winding at 14.2 volts at about 70 degrees f. battery voltage measured at the alternator/regulator is the same as the voltage measured at the battery. this vehicle uses a separate wire to measure the battery voltage for the regulator tests ok same voltage at either end of the wire. with the car running the measured output voltage of the alternator is 14.2 volts. manual says voltage should be between 13.9 and 14.9 volts question is why am i boiling the batteries. car runs fine starts ok no other problems. .

From : nirodac

alright genius how is that going to make any difference. and you wonder whjy people take exception to you... at best the voltage between the battery positive and the engine ground will be higher than at both terminals of the battery while the alternator is working. do you need a lesson on the current path during charging too really unless the battery has a dead cell voltage across the terminals has every possibility of being higher than battery positive to ground. typically remember that lesson you wanted to hand out there will be more resistance in a circuit that across the terminals themselves. gary is simply trying to establish if that possible resistance is causing the vr to keep charging the battery when it shouldnt. maybe you should shut up unless you have something construcive to add. -- max give a man a match and he is warm for a short while. light him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life. alright genius how is that going to make any difference. at best the voltage between the battery positive and the engine ground will be higher than at both terminals of the battery while the alternator is working. do you need a lesson on the current path during charging too -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving are you measuring the running-charging-voltage at both battery terminals or between positive and engine ground ok you guys seem to know it all thats not intended as a slight 91 plymouth laser i know dodge truck ng but it is a chrysler product and i do own a dodge truck and well you guys know it all. constant clear liquid around the battery especially around the top vents very corrosive. no the battery does not have a leak battery was three years old exchanged with another three year old battery same thing clear liquid around battery. constantly adding water to the battery. removed regulator from the car set it up on the test bench regulator turns on alternator at 13.8 volts and turns off the alternator field winding at 14.2 volts at about 70 degrees f. battery voltage measured at the alternator/regulator is the same as the voltage measured at the battery. this vehicle uses a separate wire to measure the battery voltage for the regulator tests ok same voltage at either end of the wire. with the car running the measured output voltage of the alternator is 14.2 volts. manual says voltage should be between 13.9 and 14.9 volts question is why am i boiling the batteries. car runs fine starts ok no other problems. .

From : tbone

good point about that intermittent a bad sense point for example on the regulator say when it heats up could definitely cause the overcharge problem. and for the record i measured the battery voltage at the positive terminal of the battery and at the regulator plug with reference to chassis ground maybe i should have used engine ground technically they are the same. the sense lead runs through 2 fuses both good from the battery. ill have to hunt around for a peak hold volt meter are you suggesting that an over current drawing starter motor could also cause the battery to spit thanks t bone for the helpful comments. you have to take into account that your problem may be intermittent. just because the regulator behaves normally while on the bench or while idling in the driveway doesnt mean that it or its wiring is ok. you will need to keep a voltmeter connected in the car with you for a while to monitor it. if it has a peak hold capability that would be best but otherwise you will need to keep it in a place where you can see it without taking you eyes off of the road any more than you would to look at any other gauge. another thing to think of is that it is not voltage that causes a battery to vent and spit fluid it is current and high current can flow on both sides such as bad turns in the starter. i would probably look at the sense wire for the regulator and make sure that it is in-tact and has a good solid connection to whatever power source it is tapping from. a bad wire or connection here can cause your problems for sure. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving ok you guys seem to know it all thats not intended as a slight 91 plymouth laser i know dodge truck ng but it is a chrysler product and i do own a dodge truck and well you guys know it all. constant clear liquid around the battery especially around the top vents very corrosive. no the battery does not have a leak battery was three years old exchanged with another three year old battery same thing clear liquid around battery. constantly adding water to the battery. removed regulator from the car set it up on the test bench regulator turns on alternator at 13.8 volts and turns off the alternator field winding at 14.2 volts at about 70 degrees f. battery voltage measured at the alternator/regulator is the same as the voltage measured at the battery. this vehicle uses a separate wire to measure the battery voltage for the regulator tests ok same voltage at either end of the wire. with the car running the measured output voltage of the alternator is 14.2 volts. manual says voltage should be between 13.9 and 14.9 volts question is why am i boiling the batteries. car runs fine starts ok no other problems. .

From : transurgeon

lol pretty good at dishing it out but completely incapable of taking it lol. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving piss off alright genius how is that going to make any difference. at best the voltage between the battery positive and the engine ground will be higher than at both terminals of the battery while the alternator is working. do you need a lesson on the current path during charging too -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving are you measuring the running-charging-voltage at both battery terminals or between positive and engine ground ok you guys seem to know it all thats not intended as a slight 91 plymouth laser i know dodge truck ng but it is a chrysler product and i do own a dodge truck and well you guys know it all. constant clear liquid around the battery especially around the top vents very corrosive. no the battery does not have a leak battery was three years old exchanged with another three year old battery same thing clear liquid around battery. constantly adding water to the battery. removed regulator from the car set it up on the test bench regulator turns on alternator at 13.8 volts and turns off the alternator field winding at 14.2 volts at about 70 degrees f. battery voltage measured at the alternator/regulator is the same as the voltage measured at the battery. this vehicle uses a separate wire to measure the battery voltage for the regulator tests ok same voltage at either end of the wire. with the car running the measured output voltage of the alternator is 14.2 volts. manual says voltage should be between 13.9 and 14.9 volts question is why am i boiling the batteries. car runs fine starts ok no other problems. .

From : transurgeon

is this a 4 x 4 ill describe this symptom as best i can when moving at 10 mph or less and turning to the left either slightly to the left or sharply to the left particularly when pulling away from a stop and turning to the left i get a shuddering vibration that can be felt through the steering column brake pedal and floor. the sound and vibration is also heard and felt by passengers. and its far more likely to start shuddering if i ride the brakes lightly while slowly turning left. im at a loss to describe the sound and frequency. its almost as if the front calipers arent releasing well sort of snagging and dragging. but i cant imagine why turning left would affect this. this occurs only when turning to the left. ive tried but cannot make it happen straight ahead or turning right. this truck is under warranty and i am already planning to take it in for another brake problem grabbing/shimmying when braking particularly from 45 mph or higher. question - is the low-speed-when-turning-left shudder a known problem that is related to the high-speed braking shimmy if so rather than confuse the service writer with multiple complaints i may just let them correct the shimmy i understand this is a tsb which involves turning rotors and replacing calipers and wait to see if the other problem goes away. thanks martin .

From : max dodge

are you sure the front wheel bearings are not going. there are under more side stress when the wheels are turning. scott my noise occurs if i am turning the wheel or not after a certain amount like maybe halfway between straight ahead and having the wheel right left. ron in bc yes my noise sounds just like that. it does not seem to be constant just on and off. i was making a trun today real slow and i could feel a very slight vibration when the noise occured. if windows are closed i would never even hear it. .

From : tbone

what a retard. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving the bonehead is just too easy .

From : tbone

excellent point. one that would be found if the op disregarded tbones insistance that checking across the terminals is unnecessary. how would checking across the terminals determine a bad battery you mean you dont know nope and neither do you. checking across the terminals will not show you anything that the positive to ground would not show. wrong again maxi!!! 1 a static check after sitting a while would show a low voltage thus enhancing tbones idea of too much starter draw. the battery would have to be just about dead before the voltage would be low enough to see it and would have nothing to do with starter draw since the alt charges it back up right after the started hammers it. care to try again well i would but at this point im laughing too hard. see you just proved your bullshit starter draw then recharge theory to be just so much rubbish. no you just dont understand it. once the engine has run for a while the battery would have been recharged so how would a static check at its terminals afterwards show you anyhting the only one spewing rubbish is you but is is fun watching you spin yourself into such a deep hole. 2 a check while charging would confirm proper voltage to the battery. no shit and why i suggested keeping a volt meter hooked up while driving. im not sure why you need it while driving. its gonna charge while the car sits still just the same as it does going down the road. another bullshit idea. no just your stupidity and ignorance shining through. remeber that intermittent problem that we were talking about. the only way they can be found is to keep watching until it happens again. there could be a heat or vibration problem causing the vr to screw up and the only way to see it is by monitoring the vehicle under normal conditions as it does what it does. 3 a check after being charged and another an hour later would indicate battery condition. true but it wouldnt say what was hurting it. exactly thats why your silly 150-500 mills draw is bullshit too. once again you are just too ignorant for words. the more power you draw out of a battery the more that has to be replaced and replacing it causes current flow. significant power usage between recharges is known as deep cycling. since the charging system in a car is not designed with deep cycle recharging in mind and the average car battery is not designed for deep cycle use either you will get more current flow in the battery than it was designed for during recharge and that can cause excessive venting and spitting. maybe im just being silly but i do believe that is why they specifically make deep cycle batteries. 4 a load test wouldnt hurt. yea that would tell you the actual condition of the battery. yeah and so far after numerous posts by you about battery this and battery that and how full of crap we all are and how we should learn a thing or two about batteries and charging and a full four hours after the original post you the self proclaimed genius never fucking mentioned it. that is because he said that he swapped out the battery with another one and had exactly the same problem. the chances of both batteries having exactly the same problem are well slim and none. btw thats the first damned thing i would have done to the system. i figured id wait to see if you had any clue. but you never figured out that checking the condition of the pattery is the first thing you do to determine overall battery/charging system health. i even suggested to you that you should develop a troubleshooting method and carry it out to fix the damn thing. i practically shoved the proper method down your throat and all you could do was insult belittle and carry on like you know it all. lol what a complete load of shit. if he was using the same battery and didnt swap it out i would have suggested that he have the battery checked but since he did with exactly the same problem it seems unlikely that the battery is to blame. the fact that it would not start shows that an unexpected current draw may in fact be the problem as this second battery is also an older battery and may not have the reserve that the one he swapped out had. it also sounded like this second battery came out of another car and unless it was having these problems in the car it was in before this it is not the damn battery. now if you had thought of checking the battery before now you would have said it then as you always do. all of these depend on checking across the terminals not to ground and the positive terminal. every one of these can be done with a connection between ground and the positive terminal of the battery but why would you want to. exactly why would you want to check between ground and battery positive when the other friggin terminal is just inches away and has the best connection to the battery because sometimes that i

From : tbone

wrong! if something is pulling a reasonable current from the battery constantly like 150 to 500 mills between that and the huge draw from the starter followed by a 14.2 voltage being applied to it it can send a reasonably high current into the battery for a fairly long period of time. perhaps you should learn a little something about batteries. maybe you should as well. reasonably high isnt a technical term anyone here recognizes as something specific. id say you are waffling and had. a battery charging voltage of 14.2 has little or nothing to do with the actual current flowing in the battery as youve so eloquently stated time after time. thus im not sure why you bothered to use it as a reason for the battery getting a reasonably high current. the huge draw from the starter is likewise unmeasured. you have no idea what the particular starter is drawing and it seems like you dont know what an actual starter draws period. most starters do not draw near what the battery is rated for on a constant draw. initial spike might exceed battery rating but in a well designed and maintained system this too is unlikely. further unless the vehicle is particularly hard starting starter draw is for short period of time and will not induce battery boiling. even your claim that recharging after a long draw and then a short huge draw wtfit is suspect as the system design takes into account the battery in that system and is designed not to cook the battery. so once again youve discussed things that are irrelevant. if the voltage was below 12.6 id agree you might possibly have a load problem - but it would in my opinion have to be significantly lower - like 11 or so. what are you talking about here a battery voltage of 12.6 or a system voltage of 12.6 if you dont know then you shouldnt be part of this discussion. btw he was talking battery voltage. -- max give a man a match and he is warm for a short while. light him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life. on tue 23 aug 2005 213139 gmt transurgeon nobulltrans@mchsi.dotcom wrote on tue 23 aug 2005 040213 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote lets forget all the little biy squabling and answer the ops question. the voltage must be checked across the battery posts - pos to neg. if the voltage is within spec under 14.6 with a fully charged battery and the battery still boils the battery is shot. checking from pos to engine or body ground will generally give a higher voltage if the ground is bad. if the wire from the alternator output has high resistance measuring from the alt output t0 ground will give a higher reading than across the battery. no shit and this is what i was saying all along. the voltage however does not have to be measured across the terminals in this case because as your examples have clearly demonstrated the voltage will not be higher at the battery than at these other measurement points and we are looking for an over voltage condition at the battery. no numb nuts we are searching for the cause of over current thru the battery and the only two things that can cause overcurrent through the battery with the engine running and the battery being charged which it obviously is at 14.2 volts are too high a charging voltage which it is not at 14.2 volts or a defective battery. wrong! if something is pulling a reasonable current from the battery constantly like 150 to 500 mills between that and the huge draw from the starter followed by a 14.2 voltage being applied to it it can send a reasonably high current into the battery for a fairly long period of time. perhaps you should learn a little something about batteries. if the voltage was below 12.6 id agree you might possibly have a load problem - but it would in my opinion have to be significantly lower - like 11 or so. what are you talking about here a battery voltage of 12.6 or a system voltage of 12.6 -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

that is because there is nothing new. you keep saying the same dumb things in the hopes of somehow making yourself look right when you are simply wrong and not man enough to either admit it of just have the dignity to simply walk away. pretty much the same thing you accuse me of all the time. i guess this makes 7. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving ....and not a friggin thing new. going for 10 in 30 minutes -- max give a man a match and he is warm for a short while. light him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life. my son just called the car wouldnt start on its own but jump started ok. tomorrow ill bring the car home ill be putting a new battery in it for the drive home as the second battery from my father-in-laws ram charger 360 cidwont start the car now and start testing some of your solutions. a bunch of us are betting youve already solved the problem. tbone coulda told ya that if he had thought to check across the terminals. what in the hell are you talking about -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

he said he used another 3 year old battery. what is the average lifespan of todays batteries just under 3 years - so the chances are pretty good he has two bad batteries. excellent point. one that would be found if the op disregarded tbones insistance that checking across the terminals is unnecessary. how would checking across the terminals determine a bad battery 1 a static check after sitting a while would show a low voltage thus enhancing tbones idea of too much starter draw. the battery would have to be just about dead before the voltage would be low enough to see it and would have nothing to do with starter draw since the alt charges it back up right after the started hammers it. care to try again 2 a check while charging would confirm proper voltage to the battery. no shit and why i suggested keeping a volt meter hooked up while driving. 3 a check after being charged and another an hour later would indicate battery condition. true but it wouldnt say what was hurting it. 4 a load test wouldnt hurt. yea that would tell you the actual condition of the battery. all of these depend on checking across the terminals not to ground and the positive terminal. every one of these can be done with a connection between ground and the positive terminal of the battery but why would you want to. but hey all three of us are full of crap. who exactly is this 3 you keep talking about. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

.....and not a friggin thing new. going for 10 in 30 minutes -- max give a man a match and he is warm for a short while. light him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life. my son just called the car wouldnt start on its own but jump started ok. tomorrow ill bring the car home ill be putting a new battery in it for the drive home as the second battery from my father-in-laws ram charger 360 cidwont start the car now and start testing some of your solutions. a bunch of us are betting youve already solved the problem. tbone coulda told ya that if he had thought to check across the terminals. what in the hell are you talking about -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

my son just called the car wouldnt start on its own but jump started ok. tomorrow ill bring the car home ill be putting a new battery in it for the drive home as the second battery from my father-in-laws ram charger 360 cidwont start the car now and start testing some of your solutions. a bunch of us are betting youve already solved the problem. tbone coulda told ya that if he had thought to check across the terminals. what in the hell are you talking about -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

lol every time i read this from you it just makes me laugh harder. how exactly is the vr going to know if the battery needs charging or that the headlights and or wipers happen to be on in an older vehicle the point maxi is that it cant and fortunately it doesnt have to. all it needs to do is keep the voltage with a given set of parameters and the system will take care of itself including the battery. thats terrific. unless it doesnt work like the ops vehicle. so while you are busy trying to show off how much you know about how it works im telling you to find the problem that makes it not work. and its obviously not working because its boiling the battery. no shit sherlock i gave him some possible reasons and how to check for them which is more than you did with your crap about measuring across the terminals lol. let us know when you come to a conclusion as to what the problem is because at least three of us have said to do a better and more thorough check of the wiring and componants before going any further. really what three gary said no such thing and come to think of it neither did nospam. the only one toting this load of crap is you. as for wiring i did suggest that he check the sense wire and field wiring because they are the only thing that could cause this condition. as for what exactly is wrong i dont know and neither do you but at least i gave him some tests to help find out which is much more than your measure across the damn terminals bs. meanwhile youve taught us how the system works about five times. yea 5 times and you still dont get it. thats great but this particular system is not working properly. so instead of jabbering about how it should work develop a troubleshooting procedure and fix the goddamnned thing. i did that many posts ago and sent it to him already. you really need to pay attention. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

no numb nuts we are searching for the cause of over current thru the battery what kills me is that he knows that because he suggested it but he keeps going back to how much voltage the vr is putting out via the alternator. i keep telling him its not the voltage but if the voltage is continued beyond when its needed i.e. current pushed in when no demand is present. but hey its tbone. maybe if we expressed it in % express it any way you want to you still got it wrong lol! -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : transurgeon

you havent figured it out yet have you sorry gary but you seem to be the one having a hard time figuring it out. i thought that the header may have tipped you off but here you are again lol. max and i derive great pleasure from watching you make an ass of yourself well if that were true it really shows the level of intelligence that you and maxi have and the fact that the two of you keep dancing like in the gravity thread more than proves how low it really is. for instance theres a bet on whether you have the restraint not to reply to this post why would you make such an idiotic bet what would be the purpose of me wanting to restrain myself. it is obvious that you cant do it but as usual this is boring so fell free to have the last word in this lame takeoff thread but at least make the dance more entertaining for me next time. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

dont worry about it this crap happens all of the time. you can use the new battery and have someone closely monitor the voltage on the ride home. the last thing that you want to do is cook a new battery. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving sorry to have caused such grief here at the ng. my son just called the car wouldnt start on its own but jump started ok. tomorrow ill bring the car home ill be putting a new battery in it for the drive home as the second battery from my father-in-laws ram charger 360 cidwont start the car now and start testing some of your solutions. i plan on monitoring the 1. battery voltage across the terminals and 2. the sense lead voltage at the alternator using the alternator ground on the trip home on two different digital volt meters. its about a thirty mile drive so something should show up. anything else i might want to check for on the drive home. on a passing note would using the old battery for the drive home be a better idea and keep the new one incase i need a jump start. thanks on tue 23 aug 2005 191540 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote on tue 23 aug 2005 040213 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote lets forget all the little biy squabling and answer the ops question. the voltage must be checked across the battery posts - pos to neg. if the voltage is within spec under 14.6 with a fully charged battery and the battery still boils the battery is shot. checking from pos to engine or body ground will generally give a higher voltage if the ground is bad. if the wire from the alternator output has high resistance measuring from the alt output t0 ground will give a higher reading than across the battery. no shit and this is what i was saying all along. the voltage however does not have to be measured across the terminals in this case because as your examples have clearly demonstrated the voltage will not be higher at the battery than at these other measurement points and we are looking for an over voltage condition at the battery. as for the battery being shot that possibility has been substantially reduced as the op indicated that this condition is occurring with more than one battery so unless both of them are shot although still a possibility the problem seems to lie elsewhere. he said he used another 3 year old battery. what is the average lifespan of todays batteries just under 3 years - so the chances are pretty good he has two bad batteries. .

From : tbone

really all of the batteries that i own are 5 years. where do you buy yours -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving on tue 23 aug 2005 191540 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote on tue 23 aug 2005 040213 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote lets forget all the little biy squabling and answer the ops question. the voltage must be checked across the battery posts - pos to neg. if the voltage is within spec under 14.6 with a fully charged battery and the battery still boils the battery is shot. checking from pos to engine or body ground will generally give a higher voltage if the ground is bad. if the wire from the alternator output has high resistance measuring from the alt output t0 ground will give a higher reading than across the battery. no shit and this is what i was saying all along. the voltage however does not have to be measured across the terminals in this case because as your examples have clearly demonstrated the voltage will not be higher at the battery than at these other measurement points and we are looking for an over voltage condition at the battery. as for the battery being shot that possibility has been substantially reduced as the op indicated that this condition is occurring with more than one battery so unless both of them are shot although still a possibility the problem seems to lie elsewhere. he said he used another 3 year old battery. what is the average lifespan of todays batteries just under 3 years - so the chances are pretty good he has two bad batteries. .

From : max dodge

on tue 23 aug 2005 222156 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote no it wasnt and even if it were you both would still be wrong. hey t-bone - you show me where i am wrong. i wasnt talking about you. i was talking about max and gary but as far as being wrong goes if you are checking for an over charge condition you do not have to measure only on the terminals of the battery and even your own examples prove that. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : Annonymous

if the speed sensor is bad shouldnt it effect the cruise speedo odometer trip computer or something when it gets very bad yes. it may just be generating an erratic signal right now which the abs computer is particularly sensitive to. when it gets worse your speedo will either not function at all or only above a certain speed. ditto with the odometer. if the speedo is working cruise control isnt affected. the sensors about a $30 part either from dealer or aftermarket and takes all of 5 minutes to change. $300.... i really hate people like that. go ahead mike... defend that one. cant defend that one but if the dealer took the diff back apart looking for a problem along with the brakes etc. that could have run the cost up to that range. wish i could be of more help but i unlike some others in the group cant intelligently comment or pass judgement on what i dont have all the info on mike .

From : Annonymous

on tue 23 aug 2005 222156 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote no it wasnt and even if it were you both would still be wrong. hey t-bone - you show me where i am wrong. .

From : tbone

on tue 23 aug 2005 213139 gmt transurgeon nobulltrans@mchsi.dotcom wrote on tue 23 aug 2005 040213 gmt max dodge max340@verizon.net wrote lets forget all the little biy squabling and answer the ops question. the voltage must be checked across the battery posts - pos to neg. if the voltage is within spec under 14.6 with a fully charged battery and the battery still boils the battery is shot. checking from pos to engine or body ground will generally give a higher voltage if the ground is bad. if the wire from the alternator output has high resistance measuring from the alt output t0 ground will give a higher reading than across the battery. no shit and this is what i was saying all along. the voltage however does not have to be measured across the terminals in this case because as your examples have clearly demonstrated the voltage will not be higher at the battery than at these other measurement points and we are looking for an over voltage condition at the battery. no numb nuts we are searching for the cause of over current thru the battery and the only two things that can cause overcurrent through the battery with the engine running and the battery being charged which it obviously is at 14.2 volts are too high a charging voltage which it is not at 14.2 volts or a defective battery. if the voltage was below 12.6 id agree you might possibly have a load problem - but it would in my opinion have to be significantly lower - like 11 or so. .

From : max dodge

well if that were true it really shows the level of intelligence that you and maxi have and the fact that the two of you keep dancing like in the gravity thread more than proves how low it really is. lol the gravity thread you mean the helium thread where you proposed that helium had no weight as to our intelligence we intrigued by betting on something with hard to figure odds. for instance ive got a bet going with a friend locally that a certain person will dump her boyfriend by a certain date. so far ive lost twice and won twice. we swap sides and pick new dates for the end of the bet each time. so far the boyfriend has lost four times although i dont know if he knows it yet..... why would you make such an idiotic bet why indeed its almost a sure thing that youll leap up and hit the button. but we do it for fun. what would be the purpose of me wanting to restrain myself. dignity class intellect manners proper conduct respect just to name a few. it is obvious that you cant do it but as usual this is boring so fell free to have the last word in this lame takeoff thread but at least make the dance more entertaining for me next time. double or nothing gary cmon tbone you can do it........ -- max give a man a match and he is warm for a short while. light him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life. you havent figured it out yet have you sorry gary but you seem to be the one having a hard time figuring it out. i thought that the header may have tipped you off but here you are again lol. max and i derive great pleasure from watching you make an ass of yourself well if that were true it really shows the level of intelligence that you and maxi have and the fact that the two of you keep dancing like in the gravity thread more than proves how low it really is. for instance theres a bet on whether you have the restraint not to reply to this post why would you make such an idiotic bet what would be the purpose of me wanting to restrain myself. it is obvious that you cant do it but as usual this is boring so fell free to have the last word in this lame takeoff thread but at least make the dance more entertaining for me next time. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

piss off alright genius how is that going to make any difference. at best the voltage between the battery positive and the engine ground will be higher than at both terminals of the battery while the alternator is working. do you need a lesson on the current path during charging too -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving are you measuring the running-charging-voltage at both battery terminals or between positive and engine ground ok you guys seem to know it all thats not intended as a slight 91 plymouth laser i know dodge truck ng but it is a chrysler product and i do own a dodge truck and well you guys know it all. constant clear liquid around the battery especially around the top vents very corrosive. no the battery does not have a leak battery was three years old exchanged with another three year old battery same thing clear liquid around battery. constantly adding water to the battery. removed regulator from the car set it up on the test bench regulator turns on alternator at 13.8 volts and turns off the alternator field winding at 14.2 volts at about 70 degrees f. battery voltage measured at the alternator/regulator is the same as the voltage measured at the battery. this vehicle uses a separate wire to measure the battery voltage for the regulator tests ok same voltage at either end of the wire. with the car running the measured output voltage of the alternator is 14.2 volts. manual says voltage should be between 13.9 and 14.9 volts question is why am i boiling the batteries. car runs fine starts ok no other problems. .

From : tbone

no numb nuts we are searching for the cause of over current thru the battery what kills me is that he knows that because he suggested it but he keeps going back to how much voltage the vr is putting out via the alternator. i keep telling him its not the voltage but if the voltage is continued beyond when its needed i.e. current pushed in when no demand is present. but hey its tbone. maybe if we expressed it in % .