Be warned: Phoenix Remanufactured Transmissions

From : ajcrm125

Q: http//www.onecircuit.com/prtbad4u.html .

Replies:

From : ted mittelstaedt

hls@nospam.nix wrote ajcrm125 wrote http//www.onecircuit.com/prtbad4u.html i suspect the problem is not with all phoenix remanufactured transmissiotn but only the one that you happened to get. the real issue is whether they were willing to make it right and it would appear that they were. looks like the problem is on your end. everybody wants to save a buck but sometimes our efforts end up getting us deeper in the poop. these are hard lessons to be learned. not sure i understand what you are saying. are you implying that phoenix reman transmissions are of poor quality no i believe that hls@nospam.nix is saying that there are reasons that do it yourself is usually a way to save money. one reason is that the diy customer assumes more risk. you have a chance of getting a bum unit from any vendor. for the do-it-yourselfer this is a significant event and an enormous pain in the neck. for a commercial shop they recognize that it happens once in a while and deal with it. this is not to say that the ordinary customer cannot benefit from doing his own work. what it does say is that sooner or later if you replace enough parts you are going to get a bad one and it is not really anyones fault. if you cannot handle it when this happens either financially emotionally or in terms of lost time then have other people do your work for you. that is complete bull. while it can happen that you will get a bad part there really is no excuse for two in a row. the fact that they are still in business shows that they do not treat commercial shops that way and if they send one a bad one they make damn sure that the second one is ok. i guess that they dont feel the need to back up the diyer that way. thanks for the info however. at least i know who to avoid if and when i need to get a rebuilt trans. phoenix does a huge amount of advertising on ebay and correct me if im wrong but i dont think many commercial garages spend a lot of time trolling ebay for parts. also if you read phoenixs website you will see that they go out of their way to make it easy for diyers to buy their transmissions. there really is i think two ways to look at it. i once had a conversation with the sales manager for arizona mobile air inc. www.ackits.com i had bought a compressor from them. top notch company by the way they cater to the diyers and to the commercial garages. i asked him if they got more returns from diyers or commercial garages. he said overwhelmingly the commercial garages. the diyers follow all instructions to a t and are usually very careful when installing parts they will flush the system per the instructions and so forth. the commercial garages will take shortcuts and not follow instructions. he said that far and away the diyers were more profitable for them and less of a headache. that wasnt to say they never had problems with diyers they did but that they had more from commercial garages. by the way the compressor i got from them did work and lasted until the car threw a rod a year later. it may be that phoenix knows this also and that is why they cater to the diy market. but otoh it may be that they know that the diy market is less likely to fight back and is easier to screw over. but the other thing about this story that i keep coming back to is that theres transmission rebuilders everywhere every major city has many of them. the simple weight and freight costs of shipping transmissions would seem to me to pretty strongly convince most people to buy local. not only that but theres the local economy to think of as well - wouldnt you rather spend your money keeping some local businesses doors open than sending it out across country ted .

From : nate nagel

ted mittelstaedt wrote but the other thing about this story that i keep coming back to is that theres transmission rebuilders everywhere every major city has many of them. the simple weight and freight costs of shipping transmissions would seem to me to pretty strongly convince most people to buy local. not only that but theres the local economy to think of as well - wouldnt you rather spend your money keeping some local businesses doors open than sending it out across country my local guy is useless to me just called him up last week asking for a price on a refresh for a 63 studebaker flightomatic he said cant help you i cant get parts for it. now i know thats not true but im not about to argue with a guy whos already decided he doesnt want to work for me. even if he does grudgingly do the work after i find after an exhausting 5-minute web search a kit for it its not going to be because he wants to because he clearly doesnt. also for many people their local shop is an aamco or cottman franchise ive heard enough horror stories that i wouldnt want to go there either. one of these days i will have to teach myself how to work on auto transmissions... nate -- replace fly with com to reply. http//home.comcast.net/njnagel .

From : ajcrm125

absolutely.. in fact after i had the tranny done locally i found out this is what they did. i went to an atf+4s website printed out the specs and tried to explain to the guy that its just not the same. in the end we had to aggree to disagree and i had him drain and replace all the fluid with stuff i bought. he kept reciting the additive manufactures specs. when you add this stuff to dexron it makes it as good if not better than atf+3/4. of course thats what they are going to say... they want you to buy their damn product. .

From : john s

ajcrm125 wrote http//www.onecircuit.com/prtbad4u.html i suspect the problem is not with all phoenix remanufactured transmissiotn but only the one that you happened to get. the real issue is whether they were willing to make it right and it would appear that they were. looks like the problem is on your end. .

From : ted mittelstaedt

http//www.onecircuit.com/prtbad4u.html this is all very interesting but it happened back in 2002 and i have to ask if phoenix has remained as bad as this for the last four years then why are they still in business i also will repeat what i said back in october on the chrysler group regarding these folks the cheapest remanufacturer/rebuilder in the country that rebuilds these and ships them out all over the country that ive seen advertised is phoenix hard parts in phoenix az they sell them for $625. but this is without converter and shipping is an additional $260 plus you have to pay to ship your core to them which is at least another $200 or so in shipping costs plus if your core has anything seriously wrong with it - like a broken gear in it - they dont accept the core and you get no core refund. and while they advertise american-made parts they dont advertise american-made hard parts ie gears which is what really matters since the gears are what take the power and cheap gears will fall apart under load. also ill say one other thing about this website. you bought a transmission from them and halfway through decided to back out of the deal. up to that point they showed a perfect willingness to work with you. after that point they dug in their heels. you observed this yourself. what you dont understand is that even the best rebuilders can make mistakes. if your paying a mechanic $2200 to do a turn key job on a transmission hes damn well going to test the vehicle 6 ways to sunday before you get it back and if he happened to sub out the rebuild job to a place like phoenix and the same problems happened you would never know about them because he would be eating the labor costs. but if you elect to try to save $600 or so by doing your own project management then your going to have to learn to deal with stuff like this. and nickel and dime items like bitching about a banged up oil pan is rediculous. if les was doing his job he would have not used the dented pan he would have used your pan and he would have tested the vehicle when he got it put back together you would have not had it blow up on you 5 blocks away from less shop. if your going to use a professional mechanic to do work on your vehicle then you let him buy the parts you dont go buying them yourself and giving them to him to put in. if you think you know better than the mechanic then you should be doing the service work not him. ted .

From : ajcrm125

2 meesed up transmissions and torque converters and you think this is coincedence come on.... you bought a transmission from them and halfway through decided to back out of the deal. up to that point they showed a perfect willingness to work with you. me backing out of the deal is completely understandable as i simply cant afford to wait a month or so as they continuously send me trannies hoping to get one that works. the fact that they showed a willingness to work with me to solve the problem means nothing if their quality is unaccaptable. look at it this way if i hire some guys to do the drywall on my new house and its obvious after a few days on the job that they have no clue what their doing does the fact that theyre willing to work with me to solve the problem mean anything hows about if i gave them another week and saw no improvements i mean its nice that they offered... but i dont have the time to wait and see if they can eventually get it right. the solution is to fire them and hire someone compitent to finish the job. what you dont understand is that even the best rebuilders can make mistakes. youre assuming im not a gearhead nobodys perfect and this is why i was willing to give it another go. after the 2nd one i gave up. and nickel and dime items like bitching about a banged up oil pan is rediculous. i agree.. and i could care less about the pan. its merely an indication as to what to expect from the transmission as a whole. i have to aggree with you however that this incident happened several years ago. however im still getting emails from other phoenix customers but have yet to post them on the website. i just moved domains i appreciate the honest opinions here though.... -adam .

From : Annonymous

ajcrm125 wrote http//www.onecircuit.com/prtbad4u.html i suspect the problem is not with all phoenix remanufactured transmissiotn but only the one that you happened to get. the real issue is whether they were willing to make it right and it would appear that they were. looks like the problem is on your end. everybody wants to save a buck but sometimes our efforts end up getting us deeper in the poop. these are hard lessons to be learned. .

From : marsh monster

======= ======= ted mittelstaedt wrote http//www.onecircuit.com/prtbad4u.html this is all very interesting but it happened back in 2002 and i have to ask if phoenix has remained as bad as this for the last four years then why are they still in business i also will repeat what i said back in october on the chrysler group regarding these folks the cheapest remanufacturer/rebuilder in the country that rebuilds these and ships them out all over the country that ive seen advertised is phoenix hard parts in phoenix az they sell them for $625. but this is without converter and shipping is an additional $260 plus you have to pay to ship your core to them which is at least another $200 or so in shipping costs plus if your core has anything seriously wrong with it - like a broken gear in it - they dont accept the core and you get no core refund. and while they advertise american-made parts they dont advertise american-made hard parts ie gears which is what really matters since the gears are what take the power and cheap gears will fall apart under load. also ill say one other thing about this website. you bought a transmission from them and halfway through decided to back out of the deal. up to that point they showed a perfect willingness to work with you. after that point they dug in their heels. you observed this yourself. what you dont understand is that even the best rebuilders can make mistakes. if your paying a mechanic $2200 to do a turn key job on a transmission hes damn well going to test the vehicle 6 ways to sunday before you get it back and if he happened to sub out the rebuild job to a place like phoenix and the same problems happened you would never know about them because he would be eating the labor costs. but if you elect to try to save $600 or so by doing your own project management then your going to have to learn to deal with stuff like this. and nickel and dime items like bitching about a banged up oil pan is rediculous. if les was doing his job he would have not used the dented pan he would have used your pan and he would have tested the vehicle when he got it put back together you would have not had it blow up on you 5 blocks away from less shop. if your going to use a professional mechanic to do work on your vehicle then you let him buy the parts you dont go buying them yourself and giving them to him to put in. if you think you know better than the mechanic then you should be doing the service work not him. ted ========== ========== ditto what ted said. marsh monster sips his crownroyal .

From : bill putney

ted mittelstaedt wrote ...but the other thing about this story that i keep coming back to is that theres transmission rebuilders everywhere every major city has many of them. the simple weight and freight costs of shipping transmissions would seem to me to pretty strongly convince most people to buy local. not only that but theres the local economy to think of as well - wouldnt you rather spend your money keeping some local businesses doors open than sending it out across country theres really no safe answer - the local guy is 95+% likely to put dexron plus an additive instead of the correct fluid in your dc vehicle tranny. bill putney to reply by e-mail replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter x .

From : ted mittelstaedt

2 meesed up transmissions and torque converters and you think this is coincedence come on.... no but as i said you elected to be your own project manager on this deal. here is how a professional mechanic would have handled this who had never dealt with phoenix before and was testing them out on a customer. at the point you were at on the second broken trans and converter the professional would give up and eat the cost and get the transmission from someone else. he would of course never use phoenix ever again. but he would have the attitude that this was a test and would not have set his expectations too high. to him the value of learning that phoenix is a pos rebuilder is probably worth the cost of a rebuilt transmission. to you since your only doing a single transmission finding out that phoenix was a bunch of shit-heads doesent have any value at all. so far this is understood.. but what your not recognizing is that when you decide to play in the big boys arena you always take the risk that your going to find out that a supplier is a shit-head. the big boys consider this an acceptable risk and part of doing business. you arent when you need to be. when i decided to go ahead and do the r&r on my own a604 last summer i always knew from the beginning that i might possibly get myself in over my head for example $1000 into the vehicle i would be calling the tow truck to tow the entire pile to the junkyard. but i made the decision to take the risk of this happening before i even bought the vehicle with a bad tranny. the greater the risk the greater the reward but it is always still risk. if we all took risks and none of us ever failed on a risk we took then none of us would really be taking any risks now would we you chose to project-manage your transmission rebuild rather than paying someone else to do it. thus when the risk fails through no fault of your own because a supplier lies and doesent measure up well then you must take the bad with the good write it off and move on because that is what risk is all about. you bought a transmission from them and halfway through decided to back out of the deal. up to that point they showed a perfect willingness to work with you. me backing out of the deal is completely understandable as i simply cant afford to wait a month or so as they continuously send me trannies hoping to get one that works. its the way you backed out that i think was the problem. theres a right way and a wrong way. you got to keep in mind that at that point they had your money you had nothing that is they had all the cards. you have to well theres no better way to say it so ill just say it you have no choice but to kiss their ass. you have to be really nice really polite a bit firm and never say anything to burn your bridges. all you really had to do after trans #2 failed was to take the next trans from them spend a couple minutes putting a few greasy fingerprints on it then call them and lie like a dog and say you spent lots of money and trans #3 didnt work and send that back without even connecting it to the engine. you do this a few more times and they are eventually going to give up. of course once you get your money back than you blast the shit out of them with your website. ;- the fact that they showed a willingness to work with me to solve the problem means nothing if their quality is unaccaptable. look at it this way if i hire some guys to do the drywall on my new house and its obvious after a few days on the job that they have no clue what their doing does the fact that theyre willing to work with me to solve the problem mean anything hows about if i gave them another week and saw no improvements i mean its nice that they offered... but i dont have the time to wait and see if they can eventually get it right. the solution is to fire them and hire someone compitent to finish the job. thats an apples to oranges comparison. when you hire folks like this the usual procedure is half down half on completion. what you dont understand is that even the best rebuilders can make mistakes. youre assuming im not a gearhead nobodys perfect and this is why i was willing to give it another go. after the 2nd one i gave up. and nickel and dime items like bitching about a banged up oil pan is rediculous. i agree.. and i could care less about the pan. its merely an indication as to what to expect from the transmission as a whole. i have to aggree with you however that this incident happened several years ago. however im still getting emails from other phoenix customers but have yet to post them on the website. i just moved domains post em! ted .

From : ted mittelstaedt

ajcrm125 wrote http//www.onecircuit.com/prtbad4u.html i suspect the problem is not with all phoenix remanufactured transmissiotn but only the one that you happened to get. the real issue is whether they were willing to make it right and it would appear that they were. looks like the problem is on your end. everybody wants to save a buck but sometimes our efforts end up getting us deeper in the poop. these are hard lessons to be learned. you have to be espically careful when what your paying for is primariarly labor. good craftspeople with experience almost always have a pretty good idea of their value and dont work very cheap. ted .

From : john s

hls@nospam.nix wrote ajcrm125 wrote http//www.onecircuit.com/prtbad4u.html i suspect the problem is not with all phoenix remanufactured transmissiotn but only the one that you happened to get. the real issue is whether they were willing to make it right and it would appear that they were. looks like the problem is on your end. everybody wants to save a buck but sometimes our efforts end up getting us deeper in the poop. these are hard lessons to be learned. not sure i understand what you are saying. are you implying that phoenix reman transmissions are of poor quality .

From : earle horton

hls@nospam.nix wrote ajcrm125 wrote http//www.onecircuit.com/prtbad4u.html i suspect the problem is not with all phoenix remanufactured transmissiotn but only the one that you happened to get. the real issue is whether they were willing to make it right and it would appear that they were. looks like the problem is on your end. everybody wants to save a buck but sometimes our efforts end up getting us deeper in the poop. these are hard lessons to be learned. not sure i understand what you are saying. are you implying that phoenix reman transmissions are of poor quality no i believe that hls@nospam.nix is saying that there are reasons that do it yourself is usually a way to save money. one reason is that the diy customer assumes more risk. you have a chance of getting a bum unit from any vendor. for the do-it-yourselfer this is a significant event and an enormous pain in the neck. for a commercial shop they recognize that it happens once in a while and deal with it. this is not to say that the ordinary customer cannot benefit from doing his own work. what it does say is that sooner or later if you replace enough parts you are going to get a bad one and it is not really anyones fault. if you cannot handle it when this happens either financially emotionally or in terms of lost time then have other people do your work for you. earle .

From : tbone

hls@nospam.nix wrote ajcrm125 wrote http//www.onecircuit.com/prtbad4u.html i suspect the problem is not with all phoenix remanufactured transmissiotn but only the one that you happened to get. the real issue is whether they were willing to make it right and it would appear that they were. looks like the problem is on your end. everybody wants to save a buck but sometimes our efforts end up getting us deeper in the poop. these are hard lessons to be learned. not sure i understand what you are saying. are you implying that phoenix reman transmissions are of poor quality no i believe that hls@nospam.nix is saying that there are reasons that do it yourself is usually a way to save money. one reason is that the diy customer assumes more risk. you have a chance of getting a bum unit from any vendor. for the do-it-yourselfer this is a significant event and an enormous pain in the neck. for a commercial shop they recognize that it happens once in a while and deal with it. this is not to say that the ordinary customer cannot benefit from doing his own work. what it does say is that sooner or later if you replace enough parts you are going to get a bad one and it is not really anyones fault. if you cannot handle it when this happens either financially emotionally or in terms of lost time then have other people do your work for you. that is complete bull. while it can happen that you will get a bad part there really is no excuse for two in a row. the fact that they are still in business shows that they do not treat commercial shops that way and if they send one a bad one they make damn sure that the second one is ok. i guess that they dont feel the need to back up the diyer that way. thanks for the info however. at least i know who to avoid if and when i need to get a rebuilt trans. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : dougw

nate nagel did pass the time by typing my local guy is useless to me just called him up last week asking for a price on a refresh for a 63 studebaker flightomatic he said cant help you i cant get parts for it. now i know thats not true but im not about to argue with a guy whos already decided he doesnt want to work for me. what a lot of these so called big box transmission shops dont tell you is that they outsource the real work or simply do transmission swaps then send your unit in to be referbished in a factory somewhere and put back on the rack. one of my friends asked me if $1200 to repair a turbo hydromatic 350 was a good price. damn near crapped my drawers laughing. the th-350 is only one of the least complicated and longest production run transmissions in history. $300 is what a good rebuild should cost. -- dougw .