Are full-size trucks bought for utility or ego?

From : enough already

Q: the subject line is phrased as a question but a study of american streets shows the answer. at least half of people driving full-size trucks and suvs could live with something more efficient. probably 2/3rds of them could. large trucks are too clean and too empty too much of the time. too many of them are dressed up or lowered down and rendered impractical for real hauling. its easy to spot an actual work truck vs. a fragile-ego-booster. get out of my way ive got more mass than you! look at my bad-ass grille looming in your mirror! weve all seen these pinheads. american trucks have been full-size for decades which is no crime if they are used to capacity not as displays of resource gluttony. the 2007 whale-like toyota tundra and newer tacomas are disappointing. i see little evidence that the new tundras especially double-cab short bed are used much beyond an ego-trip. toyota could have kept them at their relatively compact size but they bowed to the drill here drill now anti-conservation crowd who think any vehicle 250hp makes you a wimp. what compels people to occupy as much space as possible on the road are obese women more desirable than slim ones think about that for awhile. if there was the same stigma against being seen with a fat truck as a...... fyi the reason fuel prices have dropped recently is due to supply and demand not a miraculous resurgence in the amount of global oil. people really started conserving this summer after the futures spike and the credit-default-swap mess has kept them cautious. oil itself is as finite as ever; more so every second. its unclear when the price will push $4/gallon again but it will and it will keep rising as global production peaks. the argument that you have a right to waste as much oil as you want and deny all evidence for agw is also bogus. with the global population growing by 77 million annually and the world not getting any bigger everyone should stop being a glutton. e.a. http//enoughalready.tripod.com/ old conservative adage waste not want not. new conservative adage waste a lot want more. .

Replies:

From : scrape

on sat 15 nov 2008 221505 gmt someone@some.domain wrote 42k is considered lower/middle income now! i guess that depends on where one lives. .

From : td

yeah for pushing around heavy wet deep snows here in the north. with a plow on it of course. .

From : stroking myself

i bought mine because my penis is small and i wanted to compensate. didnt work so i put big tires on it and that helped a lot. .

From : Annonymous

i bought mine because my penis is small and i wanted to compensate. didnt work so i put big tires on it and that helped a lot. big tires mad you penis grow shouldnt you start spamming email .

From : scrape

on wed 12 nov 2008 061638 -0500 roy roy@home.net wrote the uaw killed them. let the uaw bail them out. your kidding right heres a hint. big expensive cars that use a lot of fuel. coupled to a economy that is on its ass. its all connected. heres another hint union bs adding what about 20-25% to the msrp of an american vehicle see the connection there .

From : miles

fuller wrath wrote horseshit. bad management and selling piss poor vehicles killed them. let them borrow from the oil companies since they are in bed together. you mean the big bad oil companies that average only 6-8% profit margins what the heck are they supposed to do if people want their product give it away .

From : scrape

on thu 13 nov 2008 042433 gmt someone@some.domain wrote remeber $40 zs $20 in the dc suburbs. .

From : Annonymous

on thu 13 nov 2008 042433 gmt someone@some.domain wrote remeber $40 zs $20 in the dc suburbs. for hi test or rag we got really good for $40. i remember js tied to sticks and sold for $20 each during the thai craze. whats crazy now is the 60s-70s stuff would be considered crap now. thats one vice i have no use for. dulls the hatred..... .

From : miles

scrape wrote on mon 03 nov 2008 061334 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote scrape wrote and by third world i would hope youre including various areas of the us. including my neighbors house. your neighbors house is better than the house or lack of in a 3rd world nation. so fucking what um it was your comment not mine so you tell me! .

From : rm v2 0rm v2 0

fuller wrath wrote only stupid people are breeding considering how poorly that bodes for the future id say it must be an even mix. jack watch idiocracy for the first 10 minutes or so it is very enlightnening. .

From : fuller wrath

horseshit. bad management and selling piss poor vehicles killed them. let them borrow from the oil companies since they are in bed together. the uaw killed them. let the uaw bail them out. .

From : scrape

on thu 13 nov 2008 202329 -0700 fuller wrath boogerpicker@wazoo.net wrote dont choke on your bo big oil talking points dont choke on your bo barack obama talking points. .

From : miles

someone@some.domain wrote try living in any major us city on a lousy $400 a week. wages should be based on ability not on need. i think there was some guy named marx that wanted what you do. if you think $20 an hour is a decent wage it is a decent wage for an unskilled job such as putting lug nuts on a car. .

From : jack

miles wrote americans will take the jobs at a fair market wage. illegals drive those wages well below market value. your statements are contradictory. yes the presence of illegals changes the market value of labor. whether the presence of illegals is or is not fair is not an economic consideration. americans who can do better on the dole are the problem notillegals who get no government checks for not working. if americans who spurn low wage jobs were left to do without that which they are capable of obtaining by honest effort there would be no room in the market for those illegals. apparently both supervisors and customers are able and willing to deal with foreign workers who though they may have limited english-language skills are in my experience willing to work harder than the average blue-collar usamerican. usamericans whose abilities do not justify a pay rate for which they are willing to work may be pitied but they can not be sheltered from reality any longer. jack .

From : miles

jack wrote miles wrote americans will take the jobs at a fair market wage. illegals drive those wages well below market value. your statements are contradictory. yes the presence of illegals changes the market value of labor. whether the presence of illegals is or is not fair is not an economic consideration. americans who can do better on the dole are the problem notillegals who get no government checks for not working. no they are not contradictory. illegals drive wages lower than the natural competitive market would be otherwise. americans would do these jobs for a fair market wage. they wont work for below market value with zero benefits to go with them. whats worse is that it also drives wages for other jobs down as well. your statement regarding public dole recipients is also a problem as you note. both are issues. .

From : jack

jmc wrote ...in order for those grads to get experience someone needs to hire them. someplace that is willing to take that raw talent and teach them the difference between the books and reality. thats what high schools and trade schools and apprenticeships are used to be for. get some real-world experience first--something on which to base the expenditures of time and treasure for an education--and then youll have some market value. jack .

From : jmc

suddenly without warning jack exclaimed 12/2/2008 807 pm jmc wrote ...in order for those grads to get experience someone needs to hire them. someplace that is willing to take that raw talent and teach them the difference between the books and reality. thats what high schools and trade schools and apprenticeships are used to be for. get some real-world experience first--something on which to base the expenditures of time and treasure for an education--and then youll have some market value. jack no they are not. schools do not count as real world experience by most employers. i know this because ive been there. one gets real world experience by getting real world jobs. if employers wont hire you because your degree does not count as real world experience youre kind of stuck eh been there. eventually did find an employer who understood that my schooling was a starting point and taught me what i *really* needed to know. apprenticeships count as real world experience but they dont exist everywhere. jmc .

From : jack

jeffrey david miller wrote how do you explain as the painter to the new owners that the stinky stain is actually feces bleeding through the back side of the dry wall and because 20 brazilians were only making so much a sheet versus going to use the porta potty they shit in a bucket and dumped the bucket in the last stud bay as a present to the cheap americans. no my prolem. you put 20 unsupervised brazilians on a job you deserve what you get. jack .

From : mac davis

on sun 2 nov 2008 101323 -0800 pst enough already enoughalready@lycos.com wrote the subject line is phrased as a question but a study of american streets shows the answer. at least half of people driving full-size trucks and suvs could live with something more efficient. probably 2/3rds of them could. large trucks are too clean and too empty too much of the time. too many of them are dressed up or lowered down and rendered impractical for real hauling. actually most folks buy suv type stuff in case they get stuck on their front lawn and cant reach a tow truck on their blackberry.. mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : sir f a rien

enough already enoughalready@lycos.com crawled out from under his greenpeace sheet and spewed these unused words its easy to spot an actual work truck vs. a fragile-ego-booster. really a local quarry owner/operator has one of the cleanest 4x4 big trucks around. so do the two owners of the contracting firm that just built my house !!! its called personal pride. they use the trucks but empty them when done and clean them! you dont have to be a yuppie greenpeacer with a fragile ego to have a big truck. .

From : carolina watercraft works

yes scrape...that is exactly what i mean too! -- ------------------------------------------ laszlo almasi ----cool toys ----mack daddy trailers ----ice angels on sun 2 nov 2008 211036 -0500 carolina watercraft works cooltoys@bellsouth.net wrote maybe people in many third world countries need to stop popping out babies left and right so there will be more oil for my ram 4x4 to use. and by third world i would hope youre including various areas of the us. including my neighbors house. .

From : Annonymous

enough already enoughalready@lycos.com crawled out from under his greenpeace sheet and spewed these unused words its easy to spot an actual work truck vs. a fragile-ego-booster. really a local quarry owner/operator has one of the cleanest 4x4 big trucks around. so do the two owners of the contracting firm that just built my house !!! its called personal pride. they use the trucks but empty them when done and clean them! you dont have to be a yuppie greenpeacer with a fragile ego to have a big truck. or a donkey dumb hillbilly with a gunrack and a dog named cleetus. keeping a truck looking good is a matter of personal pride. you have it or not. .

From : jeff strickland

the subject line is phrased as a question but a study of american streets shows the answer. i have mine for utility. i feed my ego with a bmw convertible. .

From : jeff strickland

obviously most people live where they could utilize some form of public transportation for part of their traveling - but if they choose instead to fight traffic; fight for parking spaces and pay all the associated costs to operate a vehicle why not after all it is watching these folks that convince most of the remainder to use some form of public transportation i think. my limited experience is that most is not accurate at all. some is accurate but i would suggest that most is a stretch. in my little valley there are 250000 inhabitants. there is virtually no public transportation to speak of. there is very limited bus service and even less taxi service. we have to drive 40 miles to the train station there are three trains outbound in the morning and three inbound in the evening and the schedule at each end of the line does not align very well with the workday. .

From : augustus

the subject line is phrased as a question but a study of american streets shows the answer. snip are lengthy troll posts done for utility or ego .

From : desertphile

on sun 2 nov 2008 101323 -0800 pst enough already enoughalready@lycos.com wrote the subject line is phrased as a question but a study of american streets shows the answer. nobody cares. grow up. -- http//desertphile.org desertphiles desert soliloquy. warning view with plenty of water why arent resurrections from the dead noteworthy -- jim rutz .

From : miles

enough already wrote the subject line is phrased as a question but a study of american streets shows the answer. i have my 3/4 ton for utility. i drive my durango for 1/2 utility and 1/2 because i love it. i drive my pt cruiser as a city commuter. this post is one of many of the liberal mantra of someone trying to tell others what they should buy to suit their desires rather than the one buying. people buy what they want need and enjoy. why do others have a problem with that .

From : oren

on sun 2 nov 2008 160241 -0800 steveb toquerville@zionvistas wrote and whats it to you steve! im laughing... oren .

From : peterd

on sun 2 nov 2008 101323 -0800 pst enough already enoughalready@lycos.com wrote the subject line is phrased as a question but this post is really a troll. with the global population growing by 77 million annually and the world not getting any bigger everyone should stop having so many damned children. especially when they grow up oops did i say that enough already has not grown up one tiny bit... and troll usenet with mindless blather. .

From : peterd

on sun 02 nov 2008 190845 gmt augustus noone@nowhere.net wrote the subject line is phrased as a question but a study of american streets shows the answer. snip are lengthy troll posts done for utility or ego dont know but they do waste precious resources that could be used for more productive things. .

From : sc tom

on sun 2 nov 2008 101323 -0800 pst enough already enoughalready@lycos.com wrote with the global population growing by 77 million annually and the world not getting any bigger everyone should stop having so many damned children. amen to that! its hard enough driving my escalade down those narrow 2-lane residential streets. now i have to have my suspension re-tuned from running over so many of the little buggers. didnt have that problem years ago. . . .

From : fuller wrath

only stupid people are breeding .

From : Annonymous

on sun 02 nov 2008 190845 gmt augustus noone@nowhere.net wrote the subject line is phrased as a question but a study of american streets shows the answer. snip are lengthy troll posts done for utility or ego dont know but they do waste precious resources that could be used for more productive things. nooky and beer .

From : scrape

on sun 2 nov 2008 211036 -0500 carolina watercraft works cooltoys@bellsouth.net wrote maybe people in many third world countries need to stop popping out babies left and right so there will be more oil for my ram 4x4 to use. and by third world i would hope youre including various areas of the us. including my neighbors house. .

From : scrape

on sun 2 nov 2008 191434 -0700 fuller wrath boogerpicker@wazoo.net wrote only stupid people are breeding theyll still be able to vote. .

From : miles

scrape wrote and by third world i would hope youre including various areas of the us. including my neighbors house. your neighbors house is better than the house or lack of in a 3rd world nation. .

From : mac davis

on sun 2 nov 2008 211036 -0500 carolina watercraft works cooltoys@bellsouth.net wrote maybe people in many third world countries need to stop popping out babies left and right so there will be more oil for my ram 4x4 to use. convert it to run on baby oil and squeeze a few damn did i say that out loud mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : sc tom

on sun 2 nov 2008 191434 -0700 fuller wrath boogerpicker@wazoo.net wrote only stupid people are breeding theyll still be able to vote. .. . .and drive. .

From : scrape

on mon 03 nov 2008 061334 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote scrape wrote and by third world i would hope youre including various areas of the us. including my neighbors house. your neighbors house is better than the house or lack of in a 3rd world nation. so fucking what .

From : rowbotth

2d28aac9-c795-45a7-8975-c7d250e05b52@u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com enough already enoughalready@lycos.com wrote the subject line is phrased as a question but a study of american streets shows the answer. at least half of people driving full-size trucks and suvs could live with something more efficient. probably 2/3rds of them could. large trucks are too clean and too empty too much of the time. too many of them are dressed up or lowered down and rendered impractical for real hauling. its easy to spot an actual work truck vs. a fragile-ego-booster. get out of my way ive got more mass than you! look at my bad-ass grille looming in your mirror! weve all seen these pinheads. american trucks have been full-size for decades which is no crime if they are used to capacity not as displays of resource gluttony. the 2007 whale-like toyota tundra and newer tacomas are disappointing. i see little evidence that the new tundras especially double-cab short bed are used much beyond an ego-trip. toyota could have kept them at their relatively compact size but they bowed to the drill here drill now anti-conservation crowd who think any vehicle 250hp makes you a wimp. what compels people to occupy as much space as possible on the road are obese women more desirable than slim ones think about that for awhile. if there was the same stigma against being seen with a fat truck as a...... fyi the reason fuel prices have dropped recently is due to supply and demand not a miraculous resurgence in the amount of global oil. people really started conserving this summer after the futures spike and the credit-default-swap mess has kept them cautious. oil itself is as finite as ever; more so every second. its unclear when the price will push $4/gallon again but it will and it will keep rising as global production peaks. the argument that you have a right to waste as much oil as you want and deny all evidence for agw is also bogus. with the global population growing by 77 million annually and the world not getting any bigger everyone should stop being a glutton. e.a. http//enoughalready.tripod.com/ old conservative adage waste not want not. new conservative adage waste a lot want more. and so some people waste money on booze; some on cocaine some on heroin; some on porno; and some on tobacco and loose women. also some waste money on gasoline and maintenance for a big suv when all they need is a bicycle. the point being that they are paying for the stuff. you are not being asked to finance their vice; they get to pay more for vehicle registration tires and a new vehicle when they put down the dollars to buy the thing. i personally dont get it either but i also know that you cannot legislate brains nor do you have any particular right to force others to live by your standards or beliefs. i used to have a little escort wannabe in the early 1980s; when i moved up to an explorer in the early 1990s i noticed that the 250 mile trips i made regularly seemed to shrink by about 1/3 due to the superior ride and comfort of the vehicle. mind you the big suvs we have now are a lot bigger than that dinky little explorer but still the point is there. and i think someone in an explorer is a lot smarter than someone in a smart car - id think their legs could be broken if they hit a horsefly at highway speeds. i sat through a safety film a decade ago or so which stated that cars are actually engineered to give the guy making the payments room to live in case of an accident. now i know that you dont need a hummer for this but you also aint gonna get it with a smart car either. obviously most people live where they could utilize some form of public transportation for part of their traveling - but if they choose instead to fight traffic; fight for parking spaces and pay all the associated costs to operate a vehicle why not after all it is watching these folks that convince most of the remainder to use some form of public transportation i think. how do i put out an appeal for tolerance of those who are not just like you in deed and belief or what h. .

From : scrape

on mon 03 nov 2008 184621 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote scrape wrote on mon 03 nov 2008 061334 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote scrape wrote and by third world i would hope youre including various areas of the us. including my neighbors house. your neighbors house is better than the house or lack of in a 3rd world nation. so fucking what um it was your comment not mine so you tell me! okay you missed my point about as thoroughly as you could. .

From : miles

scrape wrote on mon 03 nov 2008 184621 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote scrape wrote on mon 03 nov 2008 061334 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote scrape wrote and by third world i would hope youre including various areas of the us. including my neighbors house. your neighbors house is better than the house or lack of in a 3rd world nation. so fucking what um it was your comment not mine so you tell me! okay you missed my point about as thoroughly as you could. lol you dont have one! just rhetoric. .

From : none4you

jaspamc@gbr.online.com wrote enough already enoughalready@lycos.com crawled out from under his greenpeace sheet and spewed these unused words its easy to spot an actual work truck vs. a fragile-ego-booster. really a local quarry owner/operator has one of the cleanest 4x4 big trucks around. so do the two owners of the contracting firm that just built my house !!! its called personal pride. they use the trucks but empty them when done and clean them! you dont have to be a yuppie greenpeacer with a fragile ego to have a big truck. or a donkey dumb hillbilly with a gunrack and a dog named cleetus. keeping a truck looking good is a matter of personal pride. you have it or not. i keep mine for carrying 4 by 8s. and 2x4s and copper plumbing. or anything else . completely inside the bed. clean yes but personal pride takes a back seat to rust . i keep a clean car in the garage when i need to make a pride statement. .

From : steveb toquerville zionvistas

the subject line is phrased as a question but a study of american streets shows the answer. at least half of people driving full-size trucks and suvs could live with something more efficient. probably 2/3rds of them could. large trucks are too clean and too empty too much of the time. too many of them are dressed up or lowered down and rendered impractical for real hauling. its easy to spot an actual work truck vs. a fragile-ego-booster. get out of my way ive got more mass than you! look at my bad-ass grille looming in your mirror! weve all seen these pinheads. american trucks have been full-size for decades which is no crime if they are used to capacity not as displays of resource gluttony. the 2007 whale-like toyota tundra and newer tacomas are disappointing. i see little evidence that the new tundras especially double-cab short bed are used much beyond an ego-trip. toyota could have kept them at their relatively compact size but they bowed to the drill here drill now anti-conservation crowd who think any vehicle 250hp makes you a wimp. what compels people to occupy as much space as possible on the road are obese women more desirable than slim ones think about that for awhile. if there was the same stigma against being seen with a fat truck as a...... fyi the reason fuel prices have dropped recently is due to supply and demand not a miraculous resurgence in the amount of global oil. people really started conserving this summer after the futures spike and the credit-default-swap mess has kept them cautious. oil itself is as finite as ever; more so every second. its unclear when the price will push $4/gallon again but it will and it will keep rising as global production peaks. the argument that you have a right to waste as much oil as you want and deny all evidence for agw is also bogus. with the global population growing by 77 million annually and the world not getting any bigger everyone should stop being a glutton. e.a. http//enoughalready.tripod.com/ old conservative adage waste not want not. new conservative adage waste a lot want more. and whats it to you plonk .

From : Annonymous

the subject line is phrased as a question but a study of american streets shows the answer. at least half of people driving full-size trucks and suvs could live with something more efficient. probably 2/3rds of them could. large trucks are too clean and too empty too much of the time. too many of them are dressed up or lowered down and rendered impractical for real hauling. its easy to spot an actual work truck vs. a fragile-ego-booster. get out of my way ive got more mass than you! look at my bad-ass grille looming in your mirror! weve all seen these pinheads. american trucks have been full-size for decades which is no crime if they are used to capacity not as displays of resource gluttony. the 2007 whale-like toyota tundra and newer tacomas are disappointing. i see little evidence that the new tundras especially double-cab short bed are used much beyond an ego-trip. toyota could have kept them at their relatively compact size but they bowed to the drill here drill now anti-conservation crowd who think any vehicle 250hp makes you a wimp. what compels people to occupy as much space as possible on the road are obese women more desirable than slim ones think about that for awhile. if there was the same stigma against being seen with a fat truck as a...... fyi the reason fuel prices have dropped recently is due to supply and demand not a miraculous resurgence in the amount of global oil. people really started conserving this summer after the futures spike and the credit-default-swap mess has kept them cautious. oil itself is as finite as ever; more so every second. its unclear when the price will push $4/gallon again but it will and it will keep rising as global production peaks. the argument that you have a right to waste as much oil as you want and deny all evidence for agw is also bogus. with the global population growing by 77 million annually and the world not getting any bigger everyone should stop being a glutton. e.a. http//enoughalready.tripod.com/ old conservative adage waste not want not. new conservative adage waste a lot want more. thats what you get for buying a crystal ball at walmart. mine says people will stay stupid until forced. and if change is not permanent they will revert to stupid mode instantly. nest pas .

From : zayton

enough already enoughalready@lycos.com crawled out from under his greenpeace sheet and spewed these unused words its easy to spot an actual work truck vs. a fragile-ego-booster. really a local quarry owner/operator has one of the cleanest 4x4 big trucks around. so do the two owners of the contracting firm that just built my house !!! its called personal pride. they use the trucks but empty them when done and clean them! they empty and clean them every day and they dont get then scratched or dented using them in their work forgive me if i douby your truthfulness. you dont have to be a yuppie greenpeacer with a fragile ego to have a big truck. .

From : miles

zayton wrote they empty and clean them every day and they dont get then scratched or dented using them in their work i tow or haul in the bed 75% of the time its driven and its almost always clean and shiny. what the heck do you think people who work with their trucks do that must always get them dirty and scratched up drive through mud every day how does hauling a trailer cause it to get all dirty and scratched forgive me if i douby your truthfulness. you dont have to be a yuppie greenpeacer with a fragile ego to have a big truck. .

From : jmc

suddenly without warning miles exclaimed 11/4/2008 714 pm zayton wrote they empty and clean them every day and they dont get then scratched or dented using them in their work i tow or haul in the bed 75% of the time its driven and its almost always clean and shiny. what the heck do you think people who work with their trucks do that must always get them dirty and scratched up drive through mud every day how does hauling a trailer cause it to get all dirty and scratched forgive me if i douby your truthfulness. you dont have to be a yuppie greenpeacer with a fragile ego to have a big truck. my trucks over 8 years old has hauled hay feed a piano our lifes possessions and who knows what else. its still in relatively pristine condition. one can totally use ones truck without damaging it. dirty cleans. scratches and dents are avoided by being careful. mine is not a big truck but i also took offense to the statement that a clean/undented truck by definition is not a used truck. untrue. jmc .

From : carolina watercraft works

maybe people in many third world countries need to stop popping out babies left and right so there will be more oil for my ram 4x4 to use. -- ------------------------------------------ laszlo almasi ----cool toys ----mack daddy trailers ----ice angels 2d28aac9-c795-45a7-8975-c7d250e05b52@u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com enough already enoughalready@lycos.com wrote the subject line is phrased as a question but a study of american streets shows the answer. at least half of people driving full-size trucks and suvs could live with something more efficient. probably 2/3rds of them could. large trucks are too clean and too empty too much of the time. too many of them are dressed up or lowered down and rendered impractical for real hauling. its easy to spot an actual work truck vs. a fragile-ego-booster. get out of my way ive got more mass than you! look at my bad-ass grille looming in your mirror! weve all seen these pinheads. american trucks have been full-size for decades which is no crime if they are used to capacity not as displays of resource gluttony. the 2007 whale-like toyota tundra and newer tacomas are disappointing. i see little evidence that the new tundras especially double-cab short bed are used much beyond an ego-trip. toyota could have kept them at their relatively compact size but they bowed to the drill here drill now anti-conservation crowd who think any vehicle 250hp makes you a wimp. what compels people to occupy as much space as possible on the road are obese women more desirable than slim ones think about that for awhile. if there was the same stigma against being seen with a fat truck as a...... fyi the reason fuel prices have dropped recently is due to supply and demand not a miraculous resurgence in the amount of global oil. people really started conserving this summer after the futures spike and the credit-default-swap mess has kept them cautious. oil itself is as finite as ever; more so every second. its unclear when the price will push $4/gallon again but it will and it will keep rising as global production peaks. the argument that you have a right to waste as much oil as you want and deny all evidence for agw is also bogus. with the global population growing by 77 million annually and the world not getting any bigger everyone should stop being a glutton. e.a. http//enoughalready.tripod.com/ old conservative adage waste not want not. new conservative adage waste a lot want more. and so some people waste money on booze; some on cocaine some on heroin; some on porno; and some on tobacco and loose women. also some waste money on gasoline and maintenance for a big suv when all they need is a bicycle. the point being that they are paying for the stuff. you are not being asked to finance their vice; they get to pay more for vehicle registration tires and a new vehicle when they put down the dollars to buy the thing. i personally dont get it either but i also know that you cannot legislate brains nor do you have any particular right to force others to live by your standards or beliefs. i used to have a little escort wannabe in the early 1980s; when i moved up to an explorer in the early 1990s i noticed that the 250 mile trips i made regularly seemed to shrink by about 1/3 due to the superior ride and comfort of the vehicle. mind you the big suvs we have now are a lot bigger than that dinky little explorer but still the point is there. and i think someone in an explorer is a lot smarter than someone in a smart car - id think their legs could be broken if they hit a horsefly at highway speeds. i sat through a safety film a decade ago or so which stated that cars are actually engineered to give the guy making the payments room to live in case of an accident. now i know that you dont need a hummer for this but you also aint gonna get it with a smart car either. obviously most people live where they could utilize some form of public transportation for part of their traveling - but if they choose instead to fight traffic; fight for parking spaces and pay all the associated costs to operate a vehicle why not after all it is watching these folks that convince most of the remainder to use some form of public transportation i think. how do i put out an appeal for tolerance of those who are not just like you in deed and belief or what h. .

From : Annonymous

suddenly without warning miles exclaimed 11/4/2008 714 pm zayton wrote they empty and clean them every day and they dont get then scratched or dented using them in their work i tow or haul in the bed 75% of the time its driven and its almost always clean and shiny. what the heck do you think people who work with their trucks do that must always get them dirty and scratched up drive through mud every day how does hauling a trailer cause it to get all dirty and scratched forgive me if i douby your truthfulness. you dont have to be a yuppie greenpeacer with a fragile ego to have a big truck. my trucks over 8 years old has hauled hay feed a piano our lifes possessions and who knows what else. its still in relatively pristine condition. one can totally use ones truck without damaging it. dirty cleans. scratches and dents are avoided by being careful. mine is not a big truck but i also took offense to the statement that a clean/undented truck by definition is not a used truck. untrue. jmc bedliners are totaly worth the money. .

From : jmc

suddenly without warning someone@some.domain exclaimed 11/5/2008 1211 pm suddenly without warning miles exclaimed 11/4/2008 714 pm zayton wrote they empty and clean them every day and they dont get then scratched or dented using them in their work i tow or haul in the bed 75% of the time its driven and its almost always clean and shiny. what the heck do you think people who work with their trucks do that must always get them dirty and scratched up drive through mud every day how does hauling a trailer cause it to get all dirty and scratched forgive me if i douby your truthfulness. you dont have to be a yuppie greenpeacer with a fragile ego to have a big truck. my trucks over 8 years old has hauled hay feed a piano our lifes possessions and who knows what else. its still in relatively pristine condition. one can totally use ones truck without damaging it. dirty cleans. scratches and dents are avoided by being careful. mine is not a big truck but i also took offense to the statement that a clean/undented truck by definition is not a used truck. untrue. jmc bedliners are totaly worth the money. yuppers! mine is line-x. worth every penny. still looks great after 8 years. jmc .

From : skipfromla

my tundra is empty 5 days a week but full the other two days. if i didnt have it id need pack mules. skip on sun 2 nov 2008 101323 -0800 pst enough already enoughalready@lycos.com wrote the subject line is phrased as a question but a study of american streets shows the answer. at least half of people driving full-size trucks and suvs could live with something more efficient. probably 2/3rds of them could. large trucks are too clean and too empty too much of the time. too many of them are dressed up or lowered down and rendered impractical for real hauling. its easy to spot an actual work truck vs. a fragile-ego-booster. get out of my way ive got more mass than you! look at my bad-ass grille looming in your mirror! weve all seen these pinheads. american trucks have been full-size for decades which is no crime if they are used to capacity not as displays of resource gluttony. the 2007 whale-like toyota tundra and newer tacomas are disappointing. i see little evidence that the new tundras especially double-cab short bed are used much beyond an ego-trip. toyota could have kept them at their relatively compact size but they bowed to the drill here drill now anti-conservation crowd who think any vehicle 250hp makes you a wimp. what compels people to occupy as much space as possible on the road are obese women more desirable than slim ones think about that for awhile. if there was the same stigma against being seen with a fat truck as a...... fyi the reason fuel prices have dropped recently is due to supply and demand not a miraculous resurgence in the amount of global oil. people really started conserving this summer after the futures spike and the credit-default-swap mess has kept them cautious. oil itself is as finite as ever; more so every second. its unclear when the price will push $4/gallon again but it will and it will keep rising as global production peaks. the argument that you have a right to waste as much oil as you want and deny all evidence for agw is also bogus. with the global population growing by 77 million annually and the world not getting any bigger everyone should stop being a glutton. e.a. http//enoughalready.tripod.com/ old conservative adage waste not want not. new conservative adage waste a lot want more. .

From : n8n

on nov 2 156=a0pm jeff strickland cr...@verizon.net wrote obviously most people live where they could utilize some form of public transportation for part of their traveling - but if they choose instead to fight traffic; fight for parking spaces and pay all the associated costs to operate a vehicle why not =a0after all it is watching these folks that convince most of the remainder to use some form of public transportation i think. my limited experience is that most is not accurate at all. some is accurate but i would suggest that most is a stretch. in my little valley there are 250000 inhabitants. there is virtually no public transportation to speak of. there is very limited bus service and even less taxi service. we have to drive 40 miles to the train station there are three trains outbound in the morning and three inbound in the evening and the schedule at each end of the line does not align very wel= l with the workday. agreed. i live just outside dc - nearly walking distance from a metro station - and there still is no public transportation that will take me to my office near dulles airport now the girlie does work in dc and does take the metro every day but she is always complaining about it... i would bet that if there were affordable parking near her workplace shed be driving. even with traffic as bad as it is itd be faster than metro and more reliable... but in any case i agree with jeff i would say that the vast majority of people have to provide their own transportation to work be it driving cycling walking whatever because they dont have public transportation options. nate .

From : scrape

on tue 04 nov 2008 060735 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote scrape wrote on mon 03 nov 2008 184621 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote scrape wrote on mon 03 nov 2008 061334 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote scrape wrote and by third world i would hope youre including various areas of the us. including my neighbors house. your neighbors house is better than the house or lack of in a 3rd world nation. so fucking what um it was your comment not mine so you tell me! okay you missed my point about as thoroughly as you could. lol you dont have one! just rhetoric. typical. youre clueless. .

From : Annonymous

jaspamc@gbr.online.com wrote enough already enoughalready@lycos.com crawled out from under his greenpeace sheet and spewed these unused words its easy to spot an actual work truck vs. a fragile-ego-booster. really a local quarry owner/operator has one of the cleanest 4x4 big trucks around. so do the two owners of the contracting firm that just built my house !!! its called personal pride. they use the trucks but empty them when done and clean them! you dont have to be a yuppie greenpeacer with a fragile ego to have a big truck. or a donkey dumb hillbilly with a gunrack and a dog named cleetus. keeping a truck looking good is a matter of personal pride. you have it or not. i keep mine for carrying 4 by 8s. and 2x4s and copper plumbing. or anything else . completely inside the bed. clean yes but personal pride takes a back seat to rust . i keep a clean car in the garage when i need to make a pride statement. for me its tricked out large displacement single cylinder motorcycles. at least 30 years old. .

From : Annonymous

zayton wrote they empty and clean them every day and they dont get then scratched or dented using them in their work i tow or haul in the bed 75% of the time its driven and its almost always clean and shiny. what the heck do you think people who work with their trucks do that must always get them dirty and scratched up drive through mud every day how does hauling a trailer cause it to get all dirty and scratched forgive me if i douby your truthfulness. you dont have to be a yuppie greenpeacer with a fragile ego to have a big truck. youre wasting words on a cracker who doesnt understand regular cleaning is part of maintenance. i have a frined whi drove la to lv everyday with a trailer full of veggies. both trailer and tractor always looked new despite torrential rains dust storms and i-15. he wont get it. .

From : peterd

on wed 05 nov 2008 171100 gmt someone@some.domain wrote suddenly without warning miles exclaimed 11/4/2008 714 pm zayton wrote they empty and clean them every day and they dont get then scratched or dented using them in their work i tow or haul in the bed 75% of the time its driven and its almost always clean and shiny. what the heck do you think people who work with their trucks do that must always get them dirty and scratched up drive through mud every day how does hauling a trailer cause it to get all dirty and scratched forgive me if i douby your truthfulness. you dont have to be a yuppie greenpeacer with a fragile ego to have a big truck. my trucks over 8 years old has hauled hay feed a piano our lifes possessions and who knows what else. its still in relatively pristine condition. one can totally use ones truck without damaging it. dirty cleans. scratches and dents are avoided by being careful. mine is not a big truck but i also took offense to the statement that a clean/undented truck by definition is not a used truck. untrue. jmc bedliners are totaly worth the money. drop-in toolboxes totally make the chicks hot too. especially the aluminum ones. .

From : Annonymous

suddenly without warning someone@some.domain exclaimed 11/5/2008 1211 pm nogroupsspam@nojodibody.homeus wrote suddenly without warning miles exclaimed 11/4/2008 714 pm zayton wrote they empty and clean them every day and they dont get then scratched or dented using them in their work i tow or haul in the bed 75% of the time its driven and its almost always clean and shiny. what the heck do you think people who work with their trucks do that must always get them dirty and scratched up drive through mud every day how does hauling a trailer cause it to get all dirty and scratched forgive me if i douby your truthfulness. you dont have to be a yuppie greenpeacer with a fragile ego to have a big truck. my trucks over 8 years old has hauled hay feed a piano our lifes possessions and who knows what else. its still in relatively pristine condition. one can totally use ones truck without damaging it. dirty cleans. scratches and dents are avoided by being careful. mine is not a big truck but i also took offense to the statement that a clean/undented truck by definition is not a used truck. untrue. jmc bedliners are totaly worth the money. yuppers! mine is line-x. worth every penny. still looks great after 8 years. jmc my 86 spu has has one from day one and it still cleans up nice. 302000 miles and no major work. same motor and tranny. it just passed a ca smog. .

From : fuller wrath

never saw an aluminum chick before. saw a chick from alaska that had funky glasses and brass balls but shes been sent packing now.... drop-in toolboxes totally make the chicks hot too. especially the aluminum ones. .

From : jmc

suddenly without warning peterd exclaimed 11/5/2008 636 pm drop-in toolboxes totally make the chicks hot too. especially the aluminum ones. hmm. might want to rephrase that. im a chick though not an aluminum one i do have an aluminium toolbox in my shiny old linexed truck. ill let someone else insert joke here. please be nice jmc .

From : Annonymous

on wed 05 nov 2008 171100 gmt someone@some.domain wrote nogroupsspam@nojodibody.homeus wrote suddenly without warning miles exclaimed 11/4/2008 714 pm zayton wrote they empty and clean them every day and they dont get then scratched or dented using them in their work i tow or haul in the bed 75% of the time its driven and its almost always clean and shiny. what the heck do you think people who work with their trucks do that must always get them dirty and scratched up drive through mud every day how does hauling a trailer cause it to get all dirty and scratched forgive me if i douby your truthfulness. you dont have to be a yuppie greenpeacer with a fragile ego to have a big truck. my trucks over 8 years old has hauled hay feed a piano our lifes possessions and who knows what else. its still in relatively pristine condition. one can totally use ones truck without damaging it. dirty cleans. scratches and dents are avoided by being careful. mine is not a big truck but i also took offense to the statement that a clean/undented truck by definition is not a used truck. untrue. jmc bedliners are totaly worth the money. drop-in toolboxes totally make the chicks hot too. especially the aluminum ones. i dont like the luminum chicks. little too sharp on the old wazoo. .

From : perfectreign

none4you turned on the etch-a-sketch and wrote its called personal pride. they use the trucks but empty them when done and clean them! you dont have to be a yuppie greenpeacer with a fragile ego to have a big truck. or a donkey dumb hillbilly with a gunrack and a dog named cleetus. keeping a truck looking good is a matter of personal pride. you have it or not. i keep mine for carrying 4 by 8s. and 2x4s and copper plumbing. or anything else . completely inside the bed. please stop feeding the trolls.. -- www.perfectreign.com || www.filesite.org clean out a corner of your mind and creativity will instantly fill it. - dee hock .

From : peterd

on wed 5 nov 2008 182542 -0700 fuller wrath boogerpicker@wazoo.net wrote never saw an aluminum chick before. saw a chick from alaska that had funky glasses and brass balls but shes been sent packing now.... drop-in toolboxes totally make the chicks hot too. especially the aluminum ones. ok i deserved all those comments... .

From : beekeep

on wed 05 nov 2008 171100 gmt someone@some.domain wrote suddenly without warning miles exclaimed 11/4/2008 714 pm zayton wrote they empty and clean them every day and they dont get then scratched or dented using them in their work i tow or haul in the bed 75% of the time its driven and its almost always clean and shiny. what the heck do you think people who work with their trucks do that must always get them dirty and scratched up drive through mud every day how does hauling a trailer cause it to get all dirty and scratched forgive me if i douby your truthfulness. you dont have to be a yuppie greenpeacer with a fragile ego to have a big truck. my trucks over 8 years old has hauled hay feed a piano our lifes possessions and who knows what else. its still in relatively pristine condition. one can totally use ones truck without damaging it. dirty cleans. scratches and dents are avoided by being careful. mine is not a big truck but i also took offense to the statement that a clean/undented truck by definition is not a used truck. untrue. jmc bedliners are totaly worth the money. theyre a total waste of money. i dont pee the bed. beekeep .

From : roy

on wed 05 nov 2008 171100 gmt someone@some.domain wrote nogroupsspam@nojodibody.homeus wrote suddenly without warning miles exclaimed 11/4/2008 714 pm zayton wrote they empty and clean them every day and they dont get then scratched or dented using them in their work i tow or haul in the bed 75% of the time its driven and its almost always clean and shiny. what the heck do you think people who work with their trucks do that must always get them dirty and scratched up drive through mud every day how does hauling a trailer cause it to get all dirty and scratched forgive me if i douby your truthfulness. you dont have to be a yuppie greenpeacer with a fragile ego to have a big truck. my trucks over 8 years old has hauled hay feed a piano our lifes possessions and who knows what else. its still in relatively pristine condition. one can totally use ones truck without damaging it. dirty cleans. scratches and dents are avoided by being careful. mine is not a big truck but i also took offense to the statement that a clean/undented truck by definition is not a used truck. untrue. jmc bedliners are totaly worth the money. theyre a total waste of money. i dont pee the bed. gotta be as uncomfortable as hell to sleep on as well. roy beekeep .

From : carolina watercraft works

all depends on how much alcohol was involved. -- ------------------------------------------ laszlo almasi ----cool toys ----mack daddy trailers ----ice angels on wed 05 nov 2008 171100 gmt someone@some.domain wrote nogroupsspam@nojodibody.homeus wrote suddenly without warning miles exclaimed 11/4/2008 714 pm zayton wrote they empty and clean them every day and they dont get then scratched or dented using them in their work i tow or haul in the bed 75% of the time its driven and its almost always clean and shiny. what the heck do you think people who work with their trucks do that must always get them dirty and scratched up drive through mud every day how does hauling a trailer cause it to get all dirty and scratched forgive me if i douby your truthfulness. you dont have to be a yuppie greenpeacer with a fragile ego to have a big truck. my trucks over 8 years old has hauled hay feed a piano our lifes possessions and who knows what else. its still in relatively pristine condition. one can totally use ones truck without damaging it. dirty cleans. scratches and dents are avoided by being careful. mine is not a big truck but i also took offense to the statement that a clean/undented truck by definition is not a used truck. untrue. jmc bedliners are totaly worth the money. theyre a total waste of money. i dont pee the bed. gotta be as uncomfortable as hell to sleep on as well. roy beekeep .

From : Annonymous

on wed 05 nov 2008 171100 gmt someone@some.domain wrote nogroupsspam@nojodibody.homeus wrote suddenly without warning miles exclaimed 11/4/2008 714 pm zayton wrote they empty and clean them every day and they dont get then scratched or dented using them in their work i tow or haul in the bed 75% of the time its driven and its almost always clean and shiny. what the heck do you think people who work with their trucks do that must always get them dirty and scratched up drive through mud every day how does hauling a trailer cause it to get all dirty and scratched forgive me if i douby your truthfulness. you dont have to be a yuppie greenpeacer with a fragile ego to have a big truck. my trucks over 8 years old has hauled hay feed a piano our lifes possessions and who knows what else. its still in relatively pristine condition. one can totally use ones truck without damaging it. dirty cleans. scratches and dents are avoided by being careful. mine is not a big truck but i also took offense to the statement that a clean/undented truck by definition is not a used truck. untrue. jmc bedliners are totaly worth the money. theyre a total waste of money. i dont pee the bed. gotta be as uncomfortable as hell to sleep on as well. roy beekeep make her sleep on the wet spot. paraphrase of a 70s libber song. obviously the libber said him. .

From : roy

on wed 05 nov 2008 171100 gmt someone@some.domain wrote nogroupsspam@nojodibody.homeus wrote suddenly without warning miles exclaimed 11/4/2008 714 pm zayton wrote they empty and clean them every day and they dont get then scratched or dented using them in their work i tow or haul in the bed 75% of the time its driven and its almost always clean and shiny. what the heck do you think people who work with their trucks do that must always get them dirty and scratched up drive through mud every day how does hauling a trailer cause it to get all dirty and scratched forgive me if i douby your truthfulness. you dont have to be a yuppie greenpeacer with a fragile ego to have a big truck. my trucks over 8 years old has hauled hay feed a piano our lifes possessions and who knows what else. its still in relatively pristine condition. one can totally use ones truck without damaging it. dirty cleans. scratches and dents are avoided by being careful. mine is not a big truck but i also took offense to the statement that a clean/undented truck by definition is not a used truck. untrue. jmc bedliners are totaly worth the money. theyre a total waste of money. i dont pee the bed. gotta be as uncomfortable as hell to sleep on as well. roy beekeep make her sleep on the wet spot. paraphrase of a 70s libber song. obviously the libber said him. thanks but id much rather a wet spot on a mattress. as i said the liner has gotta be too uncomfortable. .

From : jack

fuller wrath wrote only stupid people are breeding considering how poorly that bodes for the future id say it must be an even mix. jack .

From : Annonymous

on wed 05 nov 2008 171100 gmt someone@some.domain wrote nogroupsspam@nojodibody.homeus wrote suddenly without warning miles exclaimed 11/4/2008 714 pm zayton wrote they empty and clean them every day and they dont get then scratched or dented using them in their work i tow or haul in the bed 75% of the time its driven and its almost always clean and shiny. what the heck do you think people who work with their trucks do that must always get them dirty and scratched up drive through mud every day how does hauling a trailer cause it to get all dirty and scratched forgive me if i douby your truthfulness. you dont have to be a yuppie greenpeacer with a fragile ego to have a big truck. my trucks over 8 years old has hauled hay feed a piano our lifes possessions and who knows what else. its still in relatively pristine condition. one can totally use ones truck without damaging it. dirty cleans. scratches and dents are avoided by being careful. mine is not a big truck but i also took offense to the statement that a clean/undented truck by definition is not a used truck. untrue. jmc bedliners are totaly worth the money. theyre a total waste of money. i dont pee the bed. gotta be as uncomfortable as hell to sleep on as well. roy beekeep make her sleep on the wet spot. paraphrase of a 70s libber song. obviously the libber said him. thanks but id much rather a wet spot on a mattress. as i said the liner has gotta be too uncomfortable. depends on the size. .

From : hls

the point being that they are paying for the stuff. you are not being asked to finance their vice; they get to pay more for vehicle registration tires and a new vehicle when they put down the dollars to buy the thing. actually we are being asked to pay for their stuff via the bailouts and government grants in the billions that ford and gm have already obtained.. and gm had the cojones to ask for $12 billion more...um that would be $60 from every man woman and fetus in the usa. .

From : roy

the point being that they are paying for the stuff. you are not being asked to finance their vice; they get to pay more for vehicle registration tires and a new vehicle when they put down the dollars to buy the thing. actually we are being asked to pay for their stuff via the bailouts and government grants in the billions that ford and gm have already obtained.. and gm had the cojones to ask for $12 billion more...um that would be $60 from every man woman and fetus in the usa. well if they were not bailed out wed be paying it in unemployemment welfare as well as lose of taxs. figure over 1 1/2 million jobs if gm goes down the tubes. granted only a few hundred thou. work for gm but the related workforce........ .

From : scrape

on tue 11 nov 2008 172411 -0500 roy roy@home.net wrote the point being that they are paying for the stuff. you are not being asked to finance their vice; they get to pay more for vehicle registration tires and a new vehicle when they put down the dollars to buy the thing. actually we are being asked to pay for their stuff via the bailouts and government grants in the billions that ford and gm have already obtained.. and gm had the cojones to ask for $12 billion more...um that would be $60 from every man woman and fetus in the usa. well if they were not bailed out wed be paying it in unemployemment welfare as well as lose of taxs. figure over 1 1/2 million jobs if gm goes down the tubes. granted only a few hundred thou. work for gm but the related workforce........ the uaw killed them. let the uaw bail them out. .

From : roy

on tue 11 nov 2008 172411 -0500 roy roy@home.net wrote the point being that they are paying for the stuff. you are not being asked to finance their vice; they get to pay more for vehicle registration tires and a new vehicle when they put down the dollars to buy the thing. actually we are being asked to pay for their stuff via the bailouts and government grants in the billions that ford and gm have already obtained.. and gm had the cojones to ask for $12 billion more...um that would be $60 from every man woman and fetus in the usa. well if they were not bailed out wed be paying it in unemployemment welfare as well as lose of taxs. figure over 1 1/2 million jobs if gm goes down the tubes. granted only a few hundred thou. work for gm but the related workforce........ the uaw killed them. let the uaw bail them out. your kidding right heres a hint. big expensive cars that use a lot of fuel. coupled to a economy that is on its ass. its all connected. .

From : sc tom

on tue 11 nov 2008 172411 -0500 roy roy@home.net wrote the point being that they are paying for the stuff. you are not being asked to finance their vice; they get to pay more for vehicle registration tires and a new vehicle when they put down the dollars to buy the thing. actually we are being asked to pay for their stuff via the bailouts and government grants in the billions that ford and gm have already obtained.. and gm had the cojones to ask for $12 billion more...um that would be $60 from every man woman and fetus in the usa. well if they were not bailed out wed be paying it in unemployemment welfare as well as lose of taxs. figure over 1 1/2 million jobs if gm goes down the tubes. granted only a few hundred thou. work for gm but the related workforce........ the uaw killed them. let the uaw bail them out. your kidding right heres a hint. big expensive cars that use a lot of fuel. coupled to a economy that is on its ass. its all connected. youre both right. way back when late 60s early 70s i worked at the wayne assembly plant in michigan. whenever we got a contract raise say 4% all the prices of everything else around detroit would go up 3.5%. when we got our cola every year prices would go up accordingly. it was a never-ending vicious cycle. so in order to support the union wages the retail price of the cars would go up. couple that with the gas crunch of the 70s and then again recently and costs just sky-rocket without everyone having the means to pay for it all. i was making more per hour at a menial-labor union job in michigan in 1971 than i did at a non-union managerial job at a large retail chain in 1990. hard to get ahead or break even that way. sc tom .

From : roy

on wed 12 nov 2008 061638 -0500 roy roy@home.net wrote the uaw killed them. let the uaw bail them out. your kidding right heres a hint. big expensive cars that use a lot of fuel. coupled to a economy that is on its ass. its all connected. heres another hint union bs adding what about 20-25% to the msrp of an american vehicle see the connection there get real will ya. wages increase the cost of every product. .

From : mac davis

on tue 11 nov 2008 172411 -0500 roy roy@home.net wrote well if they were not bailed out wed be paying it in unemployemment welfare as well as lose of taxs. figure over 1 1/2 million jobs if gm goes down the tubes. granted only a few hundred thou. work for gm but the related workforce........ hmmm.... so now the american way to run a big business is to do either really well or really poorly and youll make money mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : roy

on tue 11 nov 2008 172411 -0500 roy roy@home.net wrote well if they were not bailed out wed be paying it in unemployemment welfare as well as lose of taxs. figure over 1 1/2 million jobs if gm goes down the tubes. granted only a few hundred thou. work for gm but the related workforce........ hmmm.... so now the american way to run a big business is to do either really well or really poorly and youll make money sad but it seems to be that way. roy mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : miles

roy wrote on wed 12 nov 2008 061638 -0500 roy roy@home.net wrote the uaw killed them. let the uaw bail them out. your kidding right heres a hint. big expensive cars that use a lot of fuel. coupled to a economy that is on its ass. its all connected. heres another hint union bs adding what about 20-25% to the msrp of an american vehicle see the connection there get real will ya. wages increase the cost of every product. wages artificially driven above market make it difficult to compete against a world market. .

From : Annonymous

on tue 11 nov 2008 172411 -0500 roy roy@home.net wrote the point being that they are paying for the stuff. you are not being asked to finance their vice; they get to pay more for vehicle registration tires and a new vehicle when they put down the dollars to buy the thing. actually we are being asked to pay for their stuff via the bailouts and government grants in the billions that ford and gm have already obtained.. and gm had the cojones to ask for $12 billion more...um that would be $60 from every man woman and fetus in the usa. well if they were not bailed out wed be paying it in unemployemment welfare as well as lose of taxs. figure over 1 1/2 million jobs if gm goes down the tubes. granted only a few hundred thou. work for gm but the related workforce........ the uaw killed them. let the uaw bail them out. your kidding right heres a hint. big expensive cars that use a lot of fuel. coupled to a economy that is on its ass. its all connected. youre both right. way back when late 60s early 70s i worked at the wayne assembly plant in michigan. whenever we got a contract raise say 4% all the prices of everything else around detroit would go up 3.5%. when we got our cola every year prices would go up accordingly. it was a never-ending vicious cycle. so in order to support the union wages the retail price of the cars would go up. couple that with the gas crunch of the 70s and then again recently and costs just sky-rocket without everyone having the means to pay for it all. i was making more per hour at a menial-labor union job in michigan in 1971 than i did at a non-union managerial job at a large retail chain in 1990. hard to get ahead or break even that way. sc tom and 70s buckeroonies went farther. remeber $40 zs .

From : scrape

on wed 12 nov 2008 110508 -0500 roy roy@home.net wrote on wed 12 nov 2008 061638 -0500 roy roy@home.net wrote the uaw killed them. let the uaw bail them out. your kidding right heres a hint. big expensive cars that use a lot of fuel. coupled to a economy that is on its ass. its all connected. heres another hint union bs adding what about 20-25% to the msrp of an american vehicle see the connection there get real will ya. wages increase the cost of every product. of course they do. concessions to the various unions price us made vehicles beyond their worth. what would a vehicle cost if all the union bullshit didnt exist as a percentage of its present msrp .

From : scrape

on wed 12 nov 2008 175007 -0700 fuller wrath boogerpicker@wazoo.net wrote horseshit. bad management and selling piss poor vehicles killed them. let them borrow from the oil companies since they are in bed together. ill grant you the bad management aspect. piss poor vehicles is nothing but a media blitz that you apparently bought into. in bed with the oil companies right. lets see the uaw make some huge concessions to hold onto their jobs. i can see the laid off bolt turners demanding a bailout once their job is toast due to them milking the big three dry for years. federally backed unions. the uaw killed them. let the uaw bail them out. .

From : roy

on wed 12 nov 2008 175007 -0700 fuller wrath boogerpicker@wazoo.net wrote horseshit. bad management and selling piss poor vehicles killed them. let them borrow from the oil companies since they are in bed together. ill grant you the bad management aspect. piss poor vehicles is nothing but a media blitz that you apparently bought into. in bed with the oil companies right. lets see the uaw make some huge concessions to hold onto their jobs. your pretty free with other folks wages. how about you what would you really give up your medical you holidays 30% of your wages your vacations your 401 id venture nada.. you forget that these contracts are negotiated! both sides come to a agreement regarding wages benefits and work rules and so on. the union members dont make decisions about what product is built or how the company is run. management does. all i see is a nice kiss if and when they head out the door. .

From : miles

roy wrote you forget that these contracts are negotiated! both sides come to a agreement regarding wages benefits and work rules and so on. the union members dont make decisions about what product is built or how the company is run. management does. all i see is a nice kiss if and when they head out the door. higher wages than market value is wrong. simple as that. paying someone $20/hr to put lug nuts on a car is wrong yes i know someone earning that. .

From : roy

roy wrote you forget that these contracts are negotiated! both sides come to a agreement regarding wages benefits and work rules and so on. the union members dont make decisions about what product is built or how the company is run. management does. all i see is a nice kiss if and when they head out the door. higher wages than market value is wrong. simple as that. paying someone $20/hr to put lug nuts on a car is wrong yes i know someone earning that. okay lets use the guy who installs the lug nuts. who agreed to pay him 20@hr oh the guy that makes 350k to agreed to pay him 20@hr. hmmm.. yup it those friggin unions. .

From : fuller wrath

dont choke on your bo big oil talking points fuller wrath wrote horseshit. bad management and selling piss poor vehicles killed them. let them borrow from the oil companies since they are in bed together. you mean the big bad oil companies that average only 6-8% profit margins what the heck are they supposed to do if people want their product give it away .

From : miles

fuller wrath wrote naw according to the repubicans were all supposed to compete in a race to the bottom of the sewer according to the democrats if we work and succeed well make some money but have it taken away to be more patriotic. if we dont succeed gov. will just bail us out. .

From : mac davis

on wed 12 nov 2008 133353 -0500 roy roy@home.net wrote hmmm.... so now the american way to run a big business is to do either really well or really poorly and youll make money sad but it seems to be that way. roy damn.. maybe i left the us too soon... the tourist flow is really bad this year and im not selling much of my wood art yet.. i need a bailout!! mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : roy

on wed 12 nov 2008 133353 -0500 roy roy@home.net wrote hmmm.... so now the american way to run a big business is to do either really well or really poorly and youll make money sad but it seems to be that way. roy damn.. maybe i left the us too soon... the tourist flow is really bad this year and im not selling much of my wood art yet.. i need a bailout!! me too. or at least i want something.. i guess the deal now is if you pay your bills live within your means and dont owe anybody you get to pay for every overextended person and bussiness. in other words i get fucked cause i did the right thing. roy. mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : Annonymous

roy wrote you forget that these contracts are negotiated! both sides come to a agreement regarding wages benefits and work rules and so on. the union members dont make decisions about what product is built or how the company is run. management does. all i see is a nice kiss if and when they head out the door. higher wages than market value is wrong. simple as that. paying someone $20/hr to put lug nuts on a car is wrong yes i know someone earning that. try living in any major us city on a lousy $400 a week. even without taxes it is really hard. you would have to live with roomates to afford it. apartments in my city went from $450 per month to $1250 or were sold. this is common. if you think $20 an hour is a decent wage you live in some hick area thats not very wealthy. sounds like a poor parish or hick county. auto workers earn more than $20 an hour they have to. prices in michigan are high around the cities. if you think $20 an hour is good come on down. ill work you 60 hours a week and pay over time for 40+ hours. .

From : miles

roy wrote okay lets use the guy who installs the lug nuts. who agreed to pay him 20@hr oh the guy that makes 350k to agreed to pay him 20@hr. hmmm.. yup it those friggin unions. i see. because someone worked their way to the top means that someone installing lug nuts should be paid $20/hr this is the logic that baffles me. why punish those who are successful its pure jealousy towards those that are successful. .

From : joe

roy wrote okay lets use the guy who installs the lug nuts. who agreed to pay him 20@hr oh the guy that makes 350k to agreed to pay him 20@hr. hmmm.. yup it those friggin unions. i see. because someone worked their way to the top means that someone installing lug nuts should be paid $20/hr this is the logic that baffles me. why punish those who are successful its pure jealousy towards those that are successful. thats bullshit. people at the top shouldnt be installing lug nuts. they should be doing jobs relevant to their pay scale. if you measure success as doing the least amount of work for the most amount of pay then youve got a problem. in fact a lot of people have that problem and thats a big reason why were in this mess to begin with. .

From : roy

roy wrote okay lets use the guy who installs the lug nuts. who agreed to pay him 20@hr oh the guy that makes 350k to agreed to pay him 20@hr. hmmm.. yup it those friggin unions. i see. because someone worked their way to the top means that someone installing lug nuts should be paid $20/hr this is the logic that baffles me. why punish those who are successful its pure jealousy towards those that are successful. the same old bs. hammer the hourly worker. miles youll never get it. and im done with it. .

From : miles

roy wrote the same old bs. hammer the hourly worker. miles youll never get it. and im done with it. hammer the hourly worker roy tell me why an unskilled job should be paid $20/hr+ your only reason is that someone who worked their way to the top makes a lot of money. tell me how much a person that requires only minimal training to install lug nuts should be paid is that amount based on their need their ability or by how much someone at the top makes .

From : miles

joe wrote thats bullshit. people at the top shouldnt be installing lug nuts. they should be doing jobs relevant to their pay scale. huh people at the top arent installing lug nuts. theyre doing jobs relevant to their pay scale. if you measure success as doing the least amount of work for the most amount of pay then youve got a problem. huh i measure success as gaining the rewards of years of hard work to get to the top. there are many that seem to wish to punish people for making it to the top. they also wish to over pay people at the bottom based mostly on their needs rather than abilities. thats wrong. .

From : fuller wrath

happy hose shit. methinks you are swallowing the talking points http//flagrancy.net/entry-likeahummerwithteeth-2304.html on wed 12 nov 2008 175007 -0700 fuller wrath boogerpicker@wazoo.net wrote horseshit. bad management and selling piss poor vehicles killed them. let them borrow from the oil companies since they are in bed together. ill grant you the bad management aspect. piss poor vehicles is nothing but a media blitz that you apparently bought into. in bed with the oil companies right. lets see the uaw make some huge concessions to hold onto their jobs. i can see the laid off bolt turners demanding a bailout once their job is toast due to them milking the big three dry for years. federally backed unions. the uaw killed them. let the uaw bail them out. .

From : fuller wrath

naw according to the repubicans were all supposed to compete in a race to the bottom of the sewer wrote roy wrote you forget that these contracts are negotiated! both sides come to a agreement regarding wages benefits and work rules and so on. the union members dont make decisions about what product is built or how the company is run. management does. all i see is a nice kiss if and when they head out the door. higher wages than market value is wrong. simple as that. paying someone $20/hr to put lug nuts on a car is wrong yes i know someone earning that. try living in any major us city on a lousy $400 a week. even without taxes it is really hard. you would have to live with roomates to afford it. apartments in my city went from $450 per month to $1250 or were sold. this is common. if you think $20 an hour is a decent wage you live in some hick area thats not very wealthy. sounds like a poor parish or hick county. auto workers earn more than $20 an hour they have to. prices in michigan are high around the cities. if you think $20 an hour is good come on down. ill work you 60 hours a week and pay over time for 40+ hours. .

From : scrape

on thu 13 nov 2008 075525 -0500 roy roy@home.net wrote on wed 12 nov 2008 175007 -0700 fuller wrath boogerpicker@wazoo.net wrote horseshit. bad management and selling piss poor vehicles killed them. let them borrow from the oil companies since they are in bed together. ill grant you the bad management aspect. piss poor vehicles is nothing but a media blitz that you apparently bought into. in bed with the oil companies right. lets see the uaw make some huge concessions to hold onto their jobs. your pretty free with other folks wages. how about you what would you really give up your medical you holidays 30% of your wages your vacations your 401 id venture nada.. to save my job to save my industry of course i would. who wouldnt you forget that these contracts are negotiated! both sides come to a agreement regarding wages benefits and work rules and so on. the union members dont make decisions about what product is built or how the company is run. management does. all i see is a nice kiss if and when they head out the door. negotiated under the threat of a strike or whatever. .

From : scrape

on thu 13 nov 2008 175938 gmt someone@some.domain wrote on thu 13 nov 2008 042433 gmt someone@some.domain wrote remeber $40 zs $20 in the dc suburbs. for hi test or rag we got really good for $40. i remember js tied to sticks and sold for $20 each during the thai craze. whats crazy now is the 60s-70s stuff would be considered crap now. thats one vice i have no use for. dulls the hatred..... midgrade. whatever was around from south of the border... havent played with that in 30 years. dulls the hatred. --keeper thanks. .

From : Annonymous

someone@some.domain wrote try living in any major us city on a lousy $400 a week. wages should be based on ability not on need. i think there was some guy named marx that wanted what you do. if you think $20 an hour is a decent wage it is a decent wage for an unskilled job such as putting lug nuts on a car. who the fuck are you to decide sounds like youre a bitter wage slave. if i lived i detroit i wouldnt work for no tiddly shit $20 an hour. you seem to think thats a lot. its not. the people in food service should make that. the pigs that own mcdumbells and burger shit are slime. do you have any idea how much a decent not great mcdumbells takes in a year obviously not. a good dishwasher in a real resturant deserves 20 bucks an hour especially in a large city. sounds like you know the price of everything and value of nothing. i bet you are a real shit tipper. not even percentage just flat $2 no matter the bill or resturant. you still give your barber a buck even though haircuts are $12. or do you go to the barber college .

From : miles

someone@some.domain wrote i wouldnt work for no tiddly shit $20 an hour. you seem to think thats a lot. its not. never said that. i said its a lot for a totally unskilled job. the people in food service should make that. the pigs that own mcdumbells and burger shit are slime. do you have any idea how much a decent not great mcdumbells takes in a year obviously not. the idea that wages for unskilled jobs should be high because of what someone else earns is absurd. wages should based on worth of abilities not on needs. i dont want marxism but seems you do. i bet you are a real shit tipper. not even percentage just flat $2 no matter the bill or resturant. wtf are you on with your stereotyping bs i tip rather high. usually 25-30% for excellent service nothing for extremely lousy service. lets say we do things your way. raise the minimum wage for unskilled entry level jobs to $30/hr. would that make you happy what do you think the end result of doing so would be would such peoples standard of living and buying power go up hardly. you just dont get it! .

From : Annonymous

roy wrote the same old bs. hammer the hourly worker. miles youll never get it. and im done with it. hammer the hourly worker roy tell me why an unskilled job should be paid $20/hr+ your only reason is that someone who worked their way to the top makes a lot of money. tell me how much a person that requires only minimal training to install lug nuts should be paid is that amount based on their need their ability or by how much someone at the top makes they deserve all they can get in a free market economy. whatever the pay scale is around them. they have a right to make enough to survive on their labors. there are few people today who worked their way to the top. its most nepotism and how much they can save fucking those under them to impress the owners of a company. pollyanna you need real world economics 101. the bonehead beginer class. you sound like someone used and beat down because they couldnt figure out the system. i used my head worked enough to be really good and moved up every chance i made. ive had several careers because i bore easily. master a place and move on to a new challenge. maybe someday youll move up to lugnut counter. .

From : joe

joe wrote thats bullshit. people at the top shouldnt be installing lug nuts. they should be doing jobs relevant to their pay scale. huh people at the top arent installing lug nuts. theyre doing jobs relevant to their pay scale. i think i may have misread what you wrote which after reading again is unclear i see. because someone worked their way to the top means that someone installing lug nuts should be paid $20/hr this is the logic that baffles me. why punish those who are successful its pure jealousy towards those that are successful. i took it to mean that the guy at the top was the same guy who was installing lug nuts. after going back and reading roys post i still think hes right. the guy getting overpaid to install lug nuts jacks everything up. if you measure success as doing the least amount of work for the most amount of pay then youve got a problem. huh i measure success as gaining the rewards of years of hard work to get to the top. there are many that seem to wish to punish people for making it to the top. they also wish to over pay people at the bottom based mostly on their needs rather than abilities. thats wrong. again you need to clarify yourself. wheres your line between deserved success and greed greedy people are the ones who need to be punished. .

From : miles

someone@some.domain wrote roy wrote the same old bs. hammer the hourly worker. miles youll never get it. and im done with it. hammer the hourly worker roy tell me why an unskilled job should be paid $20/hr+ your only reason is that someone who worked their way to the top makes a lot of money. tell me how much a person that requires only minimal training to install lug nuts should be paid is that amount based on their need their ability or by how much someone at the top makes they deserve all they can get in a free market economy. whatever the pay scale is around them. they have a right to make enough to survive on their labors. there are few people today who worked their way to the top. its most nepotism and how much they can save fucking those under them to impress the owners of a company. pollyanna you need real world economics 101. the bonehead beginer class. you sound like someone used and beat down because they couldnt figure out the system. i used my head worked enough to be really good and moved up every chance i made. ive had several careers because i bore easily. master a place and move on to a new challenge. maybe someday youll move up to lugnut counter. not sure who you intended to reply to pollyanna i agree with you. work hard and work your way up and earn the rewards. trouble is many feel they deserve more than the free market economy supports and they get it by artificial means instead such as unions. dont get me wrong some unions in some industries are needed where the balance is off in favor of the corporations. but in too many cases the unions shift the balance too far their way. not good either. .

From : miles

joe wrote i took it to mean that the guy at the top was the same guy who was installing lug nuts. after going back and reading roys post i still think hes right. the guy getting overpaid to install lug nuts jacks everything up. i think $20/hr to for an unskilled job installing lug nuts is overpaid and drives the costs up for all. to say minimum wage should be at least $20/hr because someone who worked their way up the corporate ladder earns what some feel is too high is wrong imho. again you need to clarify yourself. wheres your line between deserved success and greed greedy people are the ones who need to be punished. define greed. someone who started poor worked hard for decades and made it to the top and gains the rewards is greedy you can not elevate the bottom by bringing down the top. .

From : Annonymous

someone@some.domain wrote roy wrote the same old bs. hammer the hourly worker. miles youll never get it. and im done with it. hammer the hourly worker roy tell me why an unskilled job should be paid $20/hr+ your only reason is that someone who worked their way to the top makes a lot of money. tell me how much a person that requires only minimal training to install lug nuts should be paid is that amount based on their need their ability or by how much someone at the top makes they deserve all they can get in a free market economy. whatever the pay scale is around them. they have a right to make enough to survive on their labors. there are few people today who worked their way to the top. its most nepotism and how much they can save fucking those under them to impress the owners of a company. pollyanna you need real world economics 101. the bonehead beginer class. you sound like someone used and beat down because they couldnt figure out the system. i used my head worked enough to be really good and moved up every chance i made. ive had several careers because i bore easily. master a place and move on to a new challenge. maybe someday youll move up to lugnut counter. not sure who you intended to reply to pollyanna i agree with you. work hard and work your way up and earn the rewards. trouble is many feel they deserve more than the free market economy supports and they get it by artificial means instead such as unions. dont get me wrong some unions in some industries are needed where the balance is off in favor of the corporations. but in too many cases the unions shift the balance too far their way. not good either. ok that i see. but the idea one can live decently on $20 and hour in a major city is just wrong. yiou can live with roomates in the bad side of town...maybe. to live in ny boston hartford any big east coast city to live alone on the old 1/4 income= rent theory you would need to make and take home $1200 a week. 60k annualy is not upper class. .

From : jmc

suddenly without warning someone@some.domain exclaimed 11/15/2008 426 am ok that i see. but the idea one can live decently on $20 and hour in a major city is just wrong. yiou can live with roomates in the bad side of town...maybe. to live in ny boston hartford any big east coast city to live alone on the old 1/4 income= rent theory you would need to make and take home $1200 a week. 60k annualy is not upper class. so move someplace more affordable. one can live outside the city and survive you know. we have thousands of uh undocumented workers dont get me started. theyre illegal! call em that! that live nearby that can attest to that. i do not think an unskilled laborer should get $20/hr. i believe that unskilled laborer if s/he wants to make $20/hr should go out and get a skill! its really not that hard. i did it. i come from a low-middle class family. i put myself through college. when i wanted to change careers i took a mail-order course back before net courses were available. later i self-taught myself additional skills to get a certificate in my new career field. i got the job i still have to day specifically because the hiring officer was impressed id done this. id been working very hard for quite a while to break that $20 mark and i did and have what would be a very nice income if i lived anywhere but here lol. theres no shame in renting a room - i know lots of folks who rent a single room in townhouses and single-family homes. even my husband did this back in the early eighties when he first moved to this area. the owner of the house gets to keep it cause the rent is helping pay the mortgage and the renter gets a place they can afford. everybody wins. its very very common here in wdc one of the most expensive places in the us to live. these are nice houses in the burbs not on the bad side of town. if you want to make a decent income you should have to work for it. simple as that. when i was 15 i started working part-time for i think around $3/hour. i started in fast food and worked my way up from there. gaaa! everybody wants something for nothing these days! jmc .

From : mac davis

on fri 14 nov 2008 164826 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote not sure who you intended to reply to pollyanna i agree with you. work hard and work your way up and earn the rewards. trouble is many feel they deserve more than the free market economy supports and they get it by artificial means instead such as unions. dont get me wrong some unions in some industries are needed where the balance is off in favor of the corporations. but in too many cases the unions shift the balance too far their way. not good either. i was trying to stay out of this one but you hit my button there miles.. imo unions were started because the business owners held all the cards... work for this much under these conditions or dont work here.. unions eventually leveled the playing field imo and for a while it was a good balance.. kick in good and bad economic times and the tide shifts back and forth between the employers and the unions having the most power.. in good times when contracts came up the employers would approve almost any proposal just to keep making money without interruption in bad times the unions made concessions to the employers to maintain the financial health of the companies.. give and take is an economic necessity.. i believe that unions have helped the majority of the workers whether they were in a union or not.. as in the case of the japanese auto plants in the us they got around being union because they were smart enough to match the pay and benefits that union workers were getting.. hard on the unions and probably not fair because the union that the workers werent in indirectly insured their wage level.. otoh being a self employed capitalist for the last 30 years or so i have problems agreeing with the principal that everyone in a certain job gets the same pay... what if youre a kick-ass worker and some around you arent.. shouldnt there be an incentive to be the best that you can be ok off my soap box now.. mac please remove splinters before emailing .

From : scrape

on sat 15 nov 2008 182646 gmt someone@some.domain wrote you can understand $20 is low money. so have a nice whatever.... quite a bit more than i was making in the it field when i switched to it 15 years ago and not all that much less than im getting now. $20/hour is almost $42k/year. i think youre going to have a hard time convincing anyone that thats low wages. especially for unskilled labor. .

From : jmc

suddenly without warning someone@some.domain exclaimed 11/15/2008 126 pm you can understand $20 is low money. so have a nice whatever.... huh when did i ever say that $20/hr is actually pretty good pay in most places. my moms been working at the same place for close to 30 years working hard and i dont think she even makes that much! $20/hr is too damn much for unskilled labor. period. thats starting level pay for some with an actual degree and a skillset i think. id been working in it for years before i started making that much. once again if you want to make $20/hour get off your couch and go back to school. if you cant afford that get a certificate in whatever field youre interesting. but get off that butt and go learn something so an employer thinks youre worth that much. gaaa! something-for-nothing. what are they teaching people these days jmc .

From : peterd

on sat 15 nov 2008 084507 -0500 jmc nogroupsspam@nojodibody.homeus wrote so move someplace more affordable. one can live outside the city and survive you know. we have thousands of uh undocumented workers dont get me started. theyre illegal! call em that! that live nearby that can attest to that. i do not think an unskilled laborer should get $20/hr. i believe that unskilled laborer if s/he wants to make $20/hr should go out and get a skill! its really not that hard. i did it. i come from a low-middle class family. i put myself through college. when i wanted to change careers i took a mail-order course back before net courses were available. later i self-taught myself additional skills to get a certificate in my new career field. i got the job i still have to day specifically because the hiring officer was impressed id done this. id been working very hard for quite a while to break that $20 mark and i did and have what would be a very nice income if i lived anywhere but here lol. theres no shame in renting a room - i know lots of folks who rent a single room in townhouses and single-family homes. even my husband did this back in the early eighties when he first moved to this area. the owner of the house gets to keep it cause the rent is helping pay the mortgage and the renter gets a place they can afford. everybody wins. its very very common here in wdc one of the most expensive places in the us to live. these are nice houses in the burbs not on the bad side of town. if you want to make a decent income you should have to work for it. simple as that. when i was 15 i started working part-time for i think around $3/hour. i started in fast food and worked my way up from there. gaaa! everybody wants something for nothing these days! jmc well said... .

From : Annonymous

suddenly without warning someone@some.domain exclaimed 11/15/2008 426 am ok that i see. but the idea one can live decently on $20 and hour in a major city is just wrong. yiou can live with roomates in the bad side of town...maybe. to live in ny boston hartford any big east coast city to live alone on the old 1/4 income= rent theory you would need to make and take home $1200 a week. 60k annualy is not upper class. so move someplace more affordable. one can live outside the city and survive you know. we have thousands of uh undocumented workers dont get me started. theyre illegal! call em that! that live nearby that can attest to that. i do not think an unskilled laborer should get $20/hr. i believe that unskilled laborer if s/he wants to make $20/hr should go out and get a skill! its really not that hard. i did it. i come from a low-middle class family. i put myself through college. when i wanted to change careers i took a mail-order course back before net courses were available. later i self-taught myself additional skills to get a certificate in my new career field. i got the job i still have to day specifically because the hiring officer was impressed id done this. id been working very hard for quite a while to break that $20 mark and i did and have what would be a very nice income if i lived anywhere but here lol. theres no shame in renting a room - i know lots of folks who rent a single room in townhouses and single-family homes. even my husband did this back in the early eighties when he first moved to this area. the owner of the house gets to keep it cause the rent is helping pay the mortgage and the renter gets a place they can afford. everybody wins. its very very common here in wdc one of the most expensive places in the us to live. these are nice houses in the burbs not on the bad side of town. if you want to make a decent income you should have to work for it. simple as that. when i was 15 i started working part-time for i think around $3/hour. i started in fast food and worked my way up from there. gaaa! everybody wants something for nothing these days! jmc you can understand $20 is low money. so have a nice whatever.... .

From : Annonymous

on sat 15 nov 2008 182646 gmt someone@some.domain wrote you can understand $20 is low money. so have a nice whatever.... quite a bit more than i was making in the it field when i switched to it 15 years ago and not all that much less than im getting now. $20/hour is almost $42k/year. i think youre going to have a hard time convincing anyone that thats low wages. especially for unskilled labor. for a dishwasher or tire changer its too much. but for a cook or assembly line its not much. 42k is considered lower/middle income now! .

From : Annonymous

suddenly without warning someone@some.domain exclaimed 11/15/2008 126 pm you can understand $20 is low money. so have a nice whatever.... huh when did i ever say that $20/hr is actually pretty good pay in most places. my moms been working at the same place for close to 30 years working hard and i dont think she even makes that much! $20/hr is too damn much for unskilled labor. period. thats starting level pay for some with an actual degree and a skillset i think. id been working in it for years before i started making that much. once again if you want to make $20/hour get off your couch and go back to school. if you cant afford that get a certificate in whatever field youre interesting. but get off that butt and go learn something so an employer thinks youre worth that much. gaaa! something-for-nothing. what are they teaching people these days jmc where did you get the delusion i dont work i make better than $20 an hour. im not claiming to be rich but i dont consider $20 a lot in most cities. unskilled labor is tough to define. thats why we have so many illegals. we dont think tire changers should earn $20 and hour or dishwashers so we wont work for it. years ago i drove cab in a big city. almost all the drivers were native born americans. because it doesnt pay much now most drivers are foreigners and many are illegals. you trying to tell me what to do his hyterical and hypocritical. you dont listen or read well. must be why youre unskilled. once my profession didnt pay well but now a teacher can earn a living. .

From : jmc

suddenly without warning someone@some.domain exclaimed 11/15/2008 929 pm suddenly without warning someone@some.domain exclaimed 11/15/2008 126 pm you can understand $20 is low money. so have a nice whatever.... huh when did i ever say that $20/hr is actually pretty good pay in most places. my moms been working at the same place for close to 30 years working hard and i dont think she even makes that much! $20/hr is too damn much for unskilled labor. period. thats starting level pay for some with an actual degree and a skillset i think. id been working in it for years before i started making that much. once again if you want to make $20/hour get off your couch and go back to school. if you cant afford that get a certificate in whatever field youre interesting. but get off that butt and go learn something so an employer thinks youre worth that much. gaaa! something-for-nothing. what are they teaching people these days jmc where did you get the delusion i dont work i make better than $20 an hour. im not claiming to be rich but i dont consider $20 a lot in most cities. unskilled labor is tough to define. thats why we have so many illegals. we dont think tire changers should earn $20 and hour or dishwashers so we wont work for it. years ago i drove cab in a big city. almost all the drivers were native born americans. because it doesnt pay much now most drivers are foreigners and many are illegals. you trying to tell me what to do his hyterical and hypocritical. you dont listen or read well. must be why youre unskilled. once my profession didnt pay well but now a teacher can earn a living. speaking of not reading well when did i say you didnt work and where did i say im not skilled this makes no sense we dont think tire changers should earn $20 and sic hour or dishwashers so we wont work for it. huh is this a mistype shouldnt this read we think tire changers should earn $20 and sic hour or dishwashers so we wont work for it our american kids dont want the low-paying jobs any more because they havent been taught a decent work ethic as my generation - dont know if it is yours too - generally was. thus leaving a hole in the economy for the illegal immigrants to fill. i didnt intend to tell you in particular what to do when i say if you want... i meant as in anyone. perhaps i should have used someone. i listen and read very well. i also know how to write well and get paid very well for those skills and other skills ive learned along the way. i worked hard and honestly up the ranks to where i am now. im a skilled it expert and instructor in my field as well. i never worked as a cab driver but worked many years in fast food in one-hour photo stores and a variety of other unskilled jobs until i trained myself out of that rut and into the job i have now. i did not expect to make even $10 an hour at those jobs and i did not. as a matter of fact i dont think i broke that $10/hour barrier until i started working for my current employer doing it work. and because im feeling snarky i certainly hope you are not an english teacher. your writing could use some work. please have someone show you where the spell checker is. jmc .

From : Annonymous

suddenly without warning someone@some.domain exclaimed 11/15/2008 929 pm nogroupsspam@nojodibody.homeus wrote suddenly without warning someone@some.domain exclaimed 11/15/2008 126 pm you can understand $20 is low money. so have a nice whatever.... huh when did i ever say that $20/hr is actually pretty good pay in most places. my moms been working at the same place for close to 30 years working hard and i dont think she even makes that much! $20/hr is too damn much for unskilled labor. period. thats starting level pay for some with an actual degree and a skillset i think. id been working in it for years before i started making that much. once again if you want to make $20/hour get off your couch and go back to school. if you cant afford that get a certificate in whatever field youre interesting. but get off that butt and go learn something so an employer thinks youre worth that much. gaaa! something-for-nothing. what are they teaching people these days jmc where did you get the delusion i dont work i make better than $20 an hour. im not claiming to be rich but i dont consider $20 a lot in most cities. unskilled labor is tough to define. thats why we have so many illegals. we dont think tire changers should earn $20 and hour or dishwashers so we wont work for it. years ago i drove cab in a big city. almost all the drivers were native born americans. because it doesnt pay much now most drivers are foreigners and many are illegals. you trying to tell me what to do his hyterical and hypocritical. you dont listen or read well. must be why youre unskilled. once my profession didnt pay well but now a teacher can earn a living. speaking of not reading well when did i say you didnt work and where did i say im not skilled this makes no sense we dont think tire changers should earn $20 and sic hour or dishwashers so we wont work for it. huh is this a mistype shouldnt this read we think tire changers should earn $20 and sic hour or dishwashers so we wont work for it our american kids dont want the low-paying jobs any more because they havent been taught a decent work ethic as my generation - dont know if it is yours too - generally was. thus leaving a hole in the economy for the illegal immigrants to fill. i didnt intend to tell you in particular what to do when i say if you want... i meant as in anyone. perhaps i should have used someone. i listen and read very well. i also know how to write well and get paid very well for those skills and other skills ive learned along the way. i worked hard and honestly up the ranks to where i am now. im a skilled it expert and instructor in my field as well. i never worked as a cab driver but worked many years in fast food in one-hour photo stores and a variety of other unskilled jobs until i trained myself out of that rut and into the job i have now. i did not expect to make even $10 an hour at those jobs and i did not. as a matter of fact i dont think i broke that $10/hour barrier until i started working for my current employer doing it work. and because im feeling snarky i certainly hope you are not an english teacher. your writing could use some work. please have someone show you where the spell checker is. jmc you answered my reply to someone else. i think i did too. yeah you corrected correctly. too long a day for me. i dont proof so spelling mistakes are left alone. most are actually typos. i refuse to be on all the time. i dont use spelling lames either. but have whatever... .

From : Annonymous

on sat 15 nov 2008 221505 gmt someone@some.domain wrote 42k is considered lower/middle income now! i guess that depends on where one lives. indeed. in the national average it is so i read. .

From : miles

someone@some.domain wrote thats why we have so many illegals. we dont think tire changers should earn $20 and hour or dishwashers so we wont work for it. bull. most illegals do not make $20/hr. more like $10 for laborers such as construction less for other jobs. americans will take the jobs at a fair market wage. illegals drive those wages well below market value. .

From : scrape

on sun 16 nov 2008 080854 gmt someone@some.domain wrote on sat 15 nov 2008 221505 gmt someone@some.domain wrote 42k is considered lower/middle income now! i guess that depends on where one lives. indeed. in the national average it is so i read. and i guess that depends on what you read and what theyre trying to convey as well. the kids coming out of college and the bolt turners etc. that think they should be guaranteed a $60-80k salary amaze the hell out of me. great if they can get it but in my thoroughly subjective opinion theyre far from worth it. .

From : miles

scrape wrote the kids coming out of college and the bolt turners etc. that think they should be guaranteed a $60-80k salary amaze the hell out of me. same here. in only rare cases will a college grad earn anywheres near that much. many companies dislike grads and prefer someone with experience in the trade far above someone with a degree. my company tried grads and found they were by the book and devoid of anything close to reality in the field. .

From : scrape

on sun 16 nov 2008 091022 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote scrape wrote the kids coming out of college and the bolt turners etc. that think they should be guaranteed a $60-80k salary amaze the hell out of me. same here. in only rare cases will a college grad earn anywheres near that much. many companies dislike grads and prefer someone with experience in the trade far above someone with a degree. my company tried grads and found they were by the book and devoid of anything close to reality in the field. i dont dislike education just find that it needs to be enhanced by real world experience to be worth much. .

From : jmc

suddenly without warning scrape exclaimed 11/16/2008 532 pm on sun 16 nov 2008 091022 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote scrape wrote the kids coming out of college and the bolt turners etc. that think they should be guaranteed a $60-80k salary amaze the hell out of me. same here. in only rare cases will a college grad earn anywheres near that much. many companies dislike grads and prefer someone with experience in the trade far above someone with a degree. my company tried grads and found they were by the book and devoid of anything close to reality in the field. i dont dislike education just find that it needs to be enhanced by real world experience to be worth much. see the thing is in order for those grads to get experience someone needs to hire them. someplace that is willing to take that raw talent and teach them the difference between the books and reality. jmc .

From : scrape

on sun 16 nov 2008 174002 -0500 jmc nogroupsspam@nojodibody.homeus wrote suddenly without warning scrape exclaimed 11/16/2008 532 pm on sun 16 nov 2008 091022 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote scrape wrote the kids coming out of college and the bolt turners etc. that think they should be guaranteed a $60-80k salary amaze the hell out of me. same here. in only rare cases will a college grad earn anywheres near that much. many companies dislike grads and prefer someone with experience in the trade far above someone with a degree. my company tried grads and found they were by the book and devoid of anything close to reality in the field. i dont dislike education just find that it needs to be enhanced by real world experience to be worth much. see the thing is in order for those grads to get experience someone needs to hire them. someplace that is willing to take that raw talent and teach them the difference between the books and reality. and that to me is an entry level position. .

From : jmc

suddenly without warning scrape exclaimed 11/16/2008 602 pm on sun 16 nov 2008 174002 -0500 jmc nogroupsspam@nojodibody.homeus wrote suddenly without warning scrape exclaimed 11/16/2008 532 pm on sun 16 nov 2008 091022 -0700 miles nope@nopers.com wrote scrape wrote the kids coming out of college and the bolt turners etc. that think they should be guaranteed a $60-80k salary amaze the hell out of me. same here. in only rare cases will a college grad earn anywheres near that much. many companies dislike grads and prefer someone with experience in the trade far above someone with a degree. my company tried grads and found they were by the book and devoid of anything close to reality in the field. i dont dislike education just find that it needs to be enhanced by real world experience to be worth much. see the thing is in order for those grads to get experience someone needs to hire them. someplace that is willing to take that raw talent and teach them the difference between the books and reality. and that to me is an entry level position. yes it is. you gotta start somewhere. jmc .

From : jeffrey david miller

someone@some.domain wrote thats why we have so many illegals. we dont think tire changers should earn $20 and hour or dishwashers so we wont work for it. bull. most illegals do not make $20/hr. more like $10 for laborers such as construction less for other jobs. americans will take the jobs at a fair market wage. illegals drive those wages well below market value. actually in my area of the northeast 5/hr is closer to the truth. the worst part is not only do they drive the value of legal labor down. the substandard work they do is a pain in the ass to fix after the fact. how do you explain as the painter to the new owners that the stinky stain is actually feces bleeding through the back side of the dry wall and because 20 brazilians were only making so much a sheet versus going to use the porta potty they shit in a bucket and dumped the bucket in the last stud bay as a present to the cheap americans. .

From : fuller wrath

bullshit. what a fucking moron fuller wrath wrote naw according to the repubicans were all supposed to compete in a race to the bottom of the sewer according to the democrats if we work and succeed well make some money but have it taken away to be more patriotic. if we dont succeed gov. will just bail us out. .

From : fuller wrath

how that mcanus/failin think working for you on thu 13 nov 2008 202329 -0700 fuller wrath boogerpicker@wazoo.net wrote dont choke on your bo big oil talking points dont choke on your bo barack obama talking points. .

From : scrape

on sun 14 dec 2008 114336 -0700 fuller wrath boogerpicker@wazoo.net wrote how that mcanus/failin think working for you amazing. a year ago you loved mccain. just another fucking hypocrite. on thu 13 nov 2008 202329 -0700 fuller wrath boogerpicker@wazoo.net wrote dont choke on your bo big oil talking points dont choke on your bo barack obama talking points. .

From : fuller wrath

looking at what we have now makes marxism seem pretty damned desirable. or do you like wallowing in shit someone@some.domain wrote i wouldnt work for no tiddly shit $20 an hour. you seem to think thats a lot. its not. never said that. i said its a lot for a totally unskilled job. the people in food service should make that. the pigs that own mcdumbells and burger shit are slime. do you have any idea how much a decent not great mcdumbells takes in a year obviously not. the idea that wages for unskilled jobs should be high because of what someone else earns is absurd. wages should based on worth of abilities not on needs. i dont want marxism but seems you do. i bet you are a real shit tipper. not even percentage just flat $2 no matter the bill or resturant. wtf are you on with your stereotyping bs i tip rather high. usually 25-30% for excellent service nothing for extremely lousy service. lets say we do things your way. raise the minimum wage for unskilled entry level jobs to $30/hr. would that make you happy what do you think the end result of doing so would be would such peoples standard of living and buying power go up hardly. you just dont get it! .

From : fuller wrath

stop blaming the unions for the failure of management. fucking idiot someone@some.domain wrote roy wrote the same old bs. hammer the hourly worker. miles youll never get it. and im done with it. hammer the hourly worker roy tell me why an unskilled job should be paid $20/hr+ your only reason is that someone who worked their way to the top makes a lot of money. tell me how much a person that requires only minimal training to install lug nuts should be paid is that amount based on their need their ability or by how much someone at the top makes they deserve all they can get in a free market economy. whatever the pay scale is around them. they have a right to make enough to survive on their labors. there are few people today who worked their way to the top. its most nepotism and how much they can save fucking those under them to impress the owners of a company. pollyanna you need real world economics 101. the bonehead beginer class. you sound like someone used and beat down because they couldnt figure out the system. i used my head worked enough to be really good and moved up every chance i made. ive had several careers because i bore easily. master a place and move on to a new challenge. maybe someday youll move up to lugnut counter. not sure who you intended to reply to pollyanna i agree with you. work hard and work your way up and earn the rewards. trouble is many feel they deserve more than the free market economy supports and they get it by artificial means instead such as unions. dont get me wrong some unions in some industries are needed where the balance is off in favor of the corporations. but in too many cases the unions shift the balance too far their way. not good either. .

From : sir f a rien

rm v2.0 blah@spamsux.com found these unused words stop blaming the unions for the failure of management. fucking idiot managements failure to stand up to them is a huge part of the issue. no business can support the kind of benefits gm workers get. hey dont cry ... the gummint decrees pervailing wage thus if any part of the work is for the gummint you have to pay the inflated wages. that carries over into the bargaining for normal wages one example a local electrician get $65 per hour when its for the county or state but the regional normal wage is $32. any clue as to why the gummints deep in debt and why unions want equal share based on gummint largess .

From : sir f a rien

anybody hear how much of a kickback bambams getting to approve the nominee for his old enate seat scrape scrapenothanks@earthlink.net found these unused words on sun 14 dec 2008 114336 -0700 fuller wrath boogerpicker@wazoo.net wrote how that mcanus/failin think working for you amazing. a year ago you loved mccain. just another fucking hypocrite. on thu 13 nov 2008 202329 -0700 fuller wrath boogerpicker@wazoo.net wrote dont choke on your bo big oil talking points dont choke on your bo barack obama talking points. .

From : rm v2 0

stop blaming the unions for the failure of management. fucking idiot managements failure to stand up to them is a huge part of the issue. no business can support the kind of benefits gm workers get. .

From : scrape

on mon 15 dec 2008 081520 -0800 sir f. a. rien jaspamc@gbr.online.com wrote anybody hear how much of a kickback bambams getting to approve the nominee for his old enate seat please tell me this is why rahm is being incredibly quiet.... scrape scrapenothanks@earthlink.net found these unused words on sun 14 dec 2008 114336 -0700 fuller wrath boogerpicker@wazoo.net wrote how that mcanus/failin think working for you amazing. a year ago you loved mccain. just another fucking hypocrite. on thu 13 nov 2008 202329 -0700 fuller wrath boogerpicker@wazoo.net wrote dont choke on your bo big oil talking points dont choke on your bo barack obama talking points. .