Air filter questions.
From : funky trilobyte
Q: the vehicle is a 99 ram 2500 24v cummins td. ive had this truck for 3 weeks. right after i bought it i went to a trusted local shop for oil change and have the fluids checked. as is usual wuth most good lube jobs filters get replaced when needed. concerning the air filter i was advised of a reusable air filter so i went with it. the concept seemed valid to me filters just as good better air flow reusable. the tree hugger in my liked the idea of not tossing something else in the trash every time i got serviced. the extra price seemed justified. i can hear the groans in the crowd already... yup -- it turned out to be a k&n filter. i only found this out when after witnessing the massive flame wars over this product i checked under the hood myself. and there it was. yesterday after grilling a mechanic at a dodge dealership about other things he mentioned to avoid the k&n filters. claimed his turbo sucked it white -- meaning all that pink oil on the filter got blown out and gummed up his turbo. this idea horrified me. so i queried dodge using their online tech support form asking if they had a formal position on k&n air filters. their response was daimlerchrysler does not have a position regarding the use of aftermarket parts. we are unable to make any recommendations regarding the use of non-factory parts or accessories. damn. i cant seem to locate *any* formal evaluations online at least concerning the effectiveness and/or dangers of the k&n filter. i realize how touchy a subject this is. i do *not* want a holy war. i just want to avoid damage to my truck. i dont care about the possibly wasted cost of the k&n filter the gains/loss in mpg/hp or my pride. i want whats best for the truck. thats it. to attempt to keep things civil i have 3 simple questions for all of you 1. is there any merrit to claim that the oil in the k&n can mess up a turbo 2. in your opinion should i ditch the k&n 3. if yes to #2 is there a preferred brand of normal air filter thanks. .
Replies:
From : beekeep
on 03 jun 2004 202925 gmt max340@aol.compost max340 wrote any good paper element will likely do and the opinions vary widely on brand. max a couple of old maxi pads held in place with a rubberband should fill the bill. beekeep .
From : wtf
funky trilobyte wrote the vehicle is a 99 ram 2500 24v cummins td. ive had this truck for 3 weeks. right after i bought it i went to a trusted local shop for oil change and have the fluids checked. as is usual wuth most good lube jobs filters get replaced when needed. concerning the air filter i was advised of a reusable air filter so i went with it. the concept seemed valid to me filters just as good better air flow reusable. the tree hugger in my liked the idea of not tossing something else in the trash every time i got serviced. the extra price seemed justified. i can hear the groans in the crowd already... yup -- it turned out to be a k&n filter. i only found this out when after witnessing the massive flame wars over this product i checked under the hood myself. and there it was. yesterday after grilling a mechanic at a dodge dealership about other things he mentioned to avoid the k&n filters. claimed his turbo sucked it white -- meaning all that pink oil on the filter got blown out and gummed up his turbo. this idea horrified me. so i queried dodge using their online tech support form asking if they had a formal position on k&n air filters. their response was daimlerchrysler does not have a position regarding the use of aftermarket parts. we are unable to make any recommendations regarding the use of non-factory parts or accessories. damn. i cant seem to locate *any* formal evaluations online at least concerning the effectiveness and/or dangers of the k&n filter. i realize how touchy a subject this is. i do *not* want a holy war. i just want to avoid damage to my truck. i dont care about the possibly wasted cost of the k&n filter the gains/loss in mpg/hp or my pride. i want whats best for the truck. thats it. to attempt to keep things civil i have 3 simple questions for all of you 1. is there any merrit to claim that the oil in the k&n can mess up a turbo 2. in your opinion should i ditch the k&n 3. if yes to #2 is there a preferred brand of normal air filter thanks. groan .
From : tbone
funky trilobyte wrote 1. is there any merrit to claim that the oil in the k&n can mess up a turbo dunno about oil. most talk is in regards to increased amounts of fine dust allowed through. 2. in your opinion should i ditch the k&n yes 3. if yes to #2 is there a preferred brand of normal air filter mopar lol just flush that money right down the toilet. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .
From : tbone
the vehicle is a 99 ram 2500 24v cummins td. yesterday after grilling a mechanic at a dodge dealership about other things he mentioned to avoid the k&n filters. claimed his turbo sucked it white -- meaning all that pink oil on the filter got blown out and gummed up his turbo. this idea horrified me. what a complete load of crap not you the mechanic. the only possible way that could happen and even then i doubt it would be if he used the wrong oil to begin with or he fcked up the filter when he cleaned it and used something that prevented the oil from penetrating the fibers. so i queried dodge using their online tech support form asking if they had a formal position on k&n air filters. their response was daimlerchrysler does not have a position regarding the use of aftermarket parts. we are unable to make any recommendations regarding the use of non-factory parts or accessories. damn. they will never make a comment on aftermarket parts as that would force them to prove their claims and could result in law suites against them. i cant seem to locate *any* formal evaluations online at least concerning the effectiveness and/or dangers of the k&n filter. that is because it doesnt exist except in the minds of the paranoid knowitalls. i realize how touchy a subject this is. i do *not* want a holy war. i just want to avoid damage to my truck. i dont care about the possibly wasted cost of the k&n filter the gains/loss in mpg/hp or my pride. i want whats best for the truck. thats it. to attempt to keep things civil i have 3 simple questions for all of you 1. is there any merrit to claim that the oil in the k&n can mess up a turbo if you overcharge the filter it is possible but highly unlikely. 2. in your opinion should i ditch the k&n that really is a personal choice. if you really feel that paranoid about it being there replace it. i would suggest removing it and looking behind it for excess dirt. if it looks worse behind the filter then it did with a paper element then you should replace it since it isnt doing the job. 3. if yes to #2 is there a preferred brand of normal air filter i like wix and purolator but just about any paper filter from a reputable manufacturer should do the job. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .
From : daniel j stern
on thu 3 jun 2004 funky trilobyte wrote the concept seemed valid to me filters just as good better air flow there is no such thing as a free lunch. i cant seem to locate *any* formal evaluations online at least concerning the effectiveness and/or dangers of the k&n filter. here ygo k&n-versus-others air filter test. the results are a *real* shocker k&n air filters dont have the magical electrostatic super intergalactic double secret filtration effect their maker claims they do. they let more crap through. they dont flow significantly better than paper filters http//www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm 1. is there any merrit to claim that the oil in the k&n can mess up a turbo if the k&n filter is *properly* oiled there *probably* isnt enough oil on it to damage the turbo. however this is highly variable depending on how heavily you oil the filter. oil in large quantities doesnt do the turbo any favors when it hits the inlet turbine. 2. in your opinion should i ditch the k&n yes. 3. if yes to #2 is there a preferred brand of normal air filter napa gold =wix purolator mopar. -stern .
From : yofuri
http//www.genosgarage.com http//www.directinjection.net/fleetgaurd.htm fleetguard is owned by cummins. the price is right too. 15w-40 shell rotella-t is $6.27 a gallon at wal-mart. a fill is 11 quarts. a 15-quart drain pan is 8.95 at wal-mart. the drain plug doesnt have to come out just loosen it with a 3/8 socket handle and retorque it to 44 ft/lbs. the oil filter needs a tong-type plier to twist it; you cant get a band wrench around it or a knurl gripper on the bottom of it. when you change the air filter pop the filter housing and use a vacuum cleaner to clean the debris from around the filter. hold the filter down against its gasket with the flat of your hand until you finish with the vac so nothing foreign goes into the intake. if your driveway is clean you can do an oil and oil@air/filter change in your sunday suit and wipe the oil off your fingertips with one paper towel. every other oil change you need to empty the little plastic blowby bottle thats clamped to the front of the crankcase flange. thats a little messier. you might want to get a free oil sample kit from www.blackstone-labs.com and spend $20 on a baseline spectrometric oil analysis. repeat every 20000 miles or so and youll have warning if a basic engine failure is impending. rick the vehicle is a 99 ram 2500 24v cummins td. ive had this truck for 3 weeks. right after i bought it i went to a trusted local shop for oil change and have the fluids checked. as is usual wuth most good lube jobs filters get replaced when needed. concerning the air filter i was advised of a reusable air filter so i went with it. the concept seemed valid to me filters just as good better air flow reusable. the tree hugger in my liked the idea of not tossing something else in the trash every time i got serviced. the extra price seemed justified. i can hear the groans in the crowd already... snip .
From : tbone
tbone wrote lol just flush that money right down the toilet. hmm. didnt see any of your recommendations just ranting. actually i did post one to the op but it seems to have disappeared. if i dont see it soon ill repost it. as for mopar filters you do know that they dont actually make them themselves so what is the point of paying that high price for them. while they may use a premium filter for the cummins because cummins requires it i doubt that the gas engines get anything more than the standard filter that the name brands produce. i know that with the carbureted engines the factory filters were usually the economy ones but they may have moved up to the mid-line with todays fuel injection. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .
From : milesh
tbone wrote actually i did post one to the op but it seems to have disappeared. if i dont see it soon ill repost it. as for mopar filters you do know that they dont actually make them themselves so what is the point of paying that high price for them. while they may use a premium filter for the cummins because cummins requires it i doubt that the gas engines get anything more than the standard filter that the name brands produce. i know that with the carbureted engines the factory filters were usually the economy ones but they may have moved up to the mid-line with todays fuel injection. guess it depends on where you buy filters. i can buy mopar filters cheaper than i can get those name brand fram stp purolater and penzoil filters. .
From : tbone
tbone wrote actually i did post one to the op but it seems to have disappeared. if i dont see it soon ill repost it. as for mopar filters you do know that they dont actually make them themselves so what is the point of paying that high price for them. while they may use a premium filter for the cummins because cummins requires it i doubt that the gas engines get anything more than the standard filter that the name brands produce. i know that with the carbureted engines the factory filters were usually the economy ones but they may have moved up to the mid-line with todays fuel injection. guess it depends on where you buy filters. i can buy mopar filters cheaper than i can get those name brand fram stp purolater and penzoil filters. if you can get them cheeper than the name brands then you have made the correct choice. where are you getting them from -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .
From : max340
1. is there any merrit to claim that the oil in the k&n can mess up a turbo yes. because of its rpm the turbo can collect any dust/particles/droplets in the air going through it. also because of the temperature of the housing it can cook any oil film that may accumulate there. further if oil is in the intake charge air it can condense anywhere in the intake system particularly the intercooler. last anything that will burn as fuel adds to the fuel in the engine and thus becomes an additional emmission which may be a concern to those with cats under their diesels. 2. in your opinion should i ditch the k&n yes. a even k&n admits to a larger amount of dust coming through and by your qualification of best for the truck youve eliminated any need for possible gains of the k&n. b despite what youve heard on hte techline there have been many comments confirming dcs among other makers distaste for this filter. 3. if yes to #2 is there a preferred brand of normal air filter any good paper element will likely do and the opinions vary widely on brand. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .
From : milesh
beekeep wrote a couple of old maxi pads held in place with a rubberband should fill the bill. ah is this what you do with your used ones .
From : beekeep
on 03 jun 2004 190600 edt milesh milesh@nounwantedspam.com wrote beekeep wrote a couple of old maxi pads held in place with a rubberband should fill the bill. ah is this what you do with your used ones 240000 miles and still running. what can i say beekeep .
From : max340
what a complete load of crap not you the mechanic. the only possible way that could happen and even then i doubt it would be if he used the wrong oil to begin with or he fcked up the filter when he cleaned it and used something that prevented the oil from penetrating the fibers. so youve got proof of this right could result in law suites against them. i thought law suites were office spaces i cant seem to locate *any* formal evaluations online at least concerning the effectiveness and/or dangers of the k&n filter. that is because it doesnt exist except in the minds of the paranoid knowitalls. i guess k&n is a paranoid knowitall since they have tests of their filters listed right on their site. as theyve claimed for years k&n filters only 97%. or this guy http//www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm ....who seems to have done a pretty decent study on this stuff. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .
From : tbone
on 03 jun 2004 202925 gmt max340@aol.compost max340 wrote any good paper element will likely do and the opinions vary widely on brand. max a couple of old maxi pads held in place with a rubberband should fill the bill. no no no that would be considered a cotton filter and we all know about that treacherous 1% lol. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .
From : tbone
what a complete load of crap not you the mechanic. the only possible way that could happen and even then i doubt it would be if he used the wrong oil to begin with or he fcked up the filter when he cleaned it and used something that prevented the oil from penetrating the fibers. so youve got proof of this right yep just like my proof that the sun will rise from the east tomorrow morning. could result in law suites against them. i thought law suites were office spaces lol resorting to spelling errors now. i cant seem to locate *any* formal evaluations online at least concerning the effectiveness and/or dangers of the k&n filter. that is because it doesnt exist except in the minds of the paranoid knowitalls. i guess k&n is a paranoid knowitall since they have tests of their filters listed right on their site. as theyve claimed for years k&n filters only 97%. only 97% lol. and iirc they said that about some of their filters not all of them. or this guy http//www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm ...who seems to have done a pretty decent study on this stuff. perhaps you should look at the picture again. the k&n actually did pretty good and was as clean as all but one of the paper filters. btw this test was not really all that valid since he was running each test in different conditions. btw the k&n did flow the best even though that test was also invalid if i read his setup correctly. hell even he said that he owned many k&n filters and may buy others at a later time. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .
From : milesh
funky trilobyte wrote 1. is there any merrit to claim that the oil in the k&n can mess up a turbo dunno about oil. most talk is in regards to increased amounts of fine dust allowed through. 2. in your opinion should i ditch the k&n yes 3. if yes to #2 is there a preferred brand of normal air filter mopar .
From : tbone
2. in your opinion should i ditch the k&n that really is a personal choice. if you really feel that paranoid about it being there replace it. i would suggest removing it and looking behind it for excess dirt. if it looks worse behind the filter then it did with a paper element then you should replace it since it isnt doing the job. im not normally one for paranoid behavior. im just an automotive greenhorn so to speak. im trying to learn more about this truck so i can service it more on my own. being a total noob at this i dont want to mess up my ram. im trying to be careful poking at others who have been around the block a few times for some friendly advice. normally i can get a feel for some issues and make my own judgement. take diesel additives. some feel theyre a godsend while others trust their preferred gas stations fuel blend. there are numerous online magazine articles i could reference. in the end i decided to run a bottle of stanadyne through my truck for good measure and i normally fill up at chevron. but nowhere have i encoutered warning that a reputable fuel additive would actually harm my truck -- at worst the opinions seem to be that they dont help at all. sounds like the dodge tech might have filling me with fud which makes me feel a little less worried about the filter. i now feel like i have time for more quantitative evaluation on my own oil tests visual inspection behind the filter etc.. thanks. your welcome and good luck with it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .
From : clyde
2. in your opinion should i ditch the k&n 3. if yes to #2 is there a preferred brand of normal air filter thanks. my 1951 studebaker has an oil bath air cleaner that has lasted almost 200000 miles. does it restrict flow i dont know and dont give a f*ck. it will pass emmissions and it gets 22 hwy mpg. about once per year i tear it down pour the old oil and sludge out on the ground along with the dirt sticks june bugs and grasshoppers then wash it down with gas. finally i pour a quart of reprocessed oil back in and im ready for another year of happy motoring. maybe you could adapt one of these. it could be done in a lot less man hours than it took to type this thread which has accomplished absolutely nothing.. so many garys ..so.. clyde .
From : daniel j stern
on sat 5 jun 2004 clyde wrote my 1951 studebaker has an oil bath air cleaner that has lasted almost 200000 miles. as a general rule oil bath air cleaners were highly effective air filters but at the expense of large size volume needed for a given level of airflow/restriction and perceived inconvenience in service -- also because still more volume was required to build an oil bath air cleaner that would not spill oil into the intake tract on hard cornering or severe grades. it will pass emmissions to be fair those areas that require emission tests on pre-76 vehicles have *extremely* high dirty limits in place for the oldies -- theyre set so as to get the genuinely worn-out cars off the road unless/until theyre fixed. emissions are another problem with oil bath air cleaners; the air picks up hydrocarbons on its way through the cleaner. this would be an additional problem with maf-sensor efi systems. obviously not a concern on your 51! -stern .
From : tbone
on thu 3 jun 2004 funky trilobyte wrote the concept seemed valid to me filters just as good better air flow there is no such thing as a free lunch. that statement is invalid in this instance. i cant seem to locate *any* formal evaluations online at least concerning the effectiveness and/or dangers of the k&n filter. here ygo k&n-versus-others air filter test. the results are a *real* shocker k&n air filters dont have the magical electrostatic super intergalactic double secret filtration effect their maker claims they do. they let more crap through. they dont flow significantly better than paper filters but they are still better. http//www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm the filtration test showed that the k&n was not all that much different from the paper ones and it looks cleaner than the one below it which iirc was a paper filter. there were too many variables in that test to make it all that valid. 1. is there any merrit to claim that the oil in the k&n can mess up a turbo if the k&n filter is *properly* oiled there *probably* isnt enough oil on it to damage the turbo. however this is highly variable depending on how heavily you oil the filter. oil in large quantities doesnt do the turbo any favors when it hits the inlet turbine. while true a turbo is not all that fragile and if you use the filter incorrectly you cannot expect it to do the job. 2. in your opinion should i ditch the k&n yes. 3. if yes to #2 is there a preferred brand of normal air filter napa gold =wix purolator mopar. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .
From : tbone
1. is there any merrit to claim that the oil in the k&n can mess up a turbo yes. because of its rpm the turbo can collect any dust/particles/droplets in the air going through it. really then how fast does the air filter spin to do its job lol! also because of the temperature of the housing it can cook any oil film that may accumulate there. hahahahaha the exhaust side has a much greater chance of that happening and it seems to do ok with it. further if oil is in the intake charge air it can condense anywhere in the intake system particularly the intercooler. in order for it to condense it would have to be evaporated first. where exactly is this happening and at what quantity according to you any oil would be cooked by the turbo housing. last anything that will burn as fuel adds to the fuel in the engine and thus becomes an additional emmission which may be a concern to those with cats under their diesels. lol can you reach any farther if you tried 2. in your opinion should i ditch the k&n yes. a even k&n admits to a larger amount of dust coming through re-defining the language again i see. b despite what youve heard on hte techline there have been many comments confirming dcs among other makers distaste for this filter. yea my cousins best friend heard from his aunts brother twice removed that he overheard a customer saying that a tech said that k&n will void the warranty. iow nothing but second hand shit on the web and nothing in writing from a direct credible source because it doesnt exist. 3. if yes to #2 is there a preferred brand of normal air filter any good paper element will likely do and the opinions vary widely on brand. at least we agree on this. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .
From : funky trilobyte
2. in your opinion should i ditch the k&n that really is a personal choice. if you really feel that paranoid about it being there replace it. i would suggest removing it and looking behind it for excess dirt. if it looks worse behind the filter then it did with a paper element then you should replace it since it isnt doing the job. im not normally one for paranoid behavior. im just an automotive greenhorn so to speak. im trying to learn more about this truck so i can service it more on my own. being a total noob at this i dont want to mess up my ram. im trying to be careful poking at others who have been around the block a few times for some friendly advice. normally i can get a feel for some issues and make my own judgement. take diesel additives. some feel theyre a godsend while others trust their preferred gas stations fuel blend. there are numerous online magazine articles i could reference. in the end i decided to run a bottle of stanadyne through my truck for good measure and i normally fill up at chevron. but nowhere have i encoutered warning that a reputable fuel additive would actually harm my truck -- at worst the opinions seem to be that they dont help at all. sounds like the dodge tech might have filling me with fud which makes me feel a little less worried about the filter. i now feel like i have time for more quantitative evaluation on my own oil tests visual inspection behind the filter etc.. thanks. .
From : daniel j stern
on thu 3 jun 2004 tbone wrote filters just as good better air flow there is no such thing as a free lunch. that statement is invalid in this instance. better flow less filtration. better filtration less flow. simple as that. the alleged k&n magic does not exist. true believers in the one and only true god k&n may disagree with me; i dont care. thereve been zero tests coming even close to demonstrating k&ns bs claims of equal-or-better filtration and the true believers always resort to retorting well you cant prove its not as good! no that doesnt count you didnt do the magic tapdance and say the magic chant while you were testing the k&n against a paper filter so the results are no good! etc. pfft. -stern .
From : bdk
funkytrilobyte@hotmail.com says... the vehicle is a 99 ram 2500 24v cummins td. ive had this truck for 3 weeks. right after i bought it i went to a trusted local shop for oil change and have the fluids checked. as is usual wuth most good lube jobs filters get replaced when needed. concerning the air filter i was advised of a reusable air filter so i went with it. the concept seemed valid to me filters just as good better air flow reusable. the tree hugger in my liked the idea of not tossing something else in the trash every time i got serviced. the extra price seemed justified. i can hear the groans in the crowd already... yup -- it turned out to be a k&n filter. i only found this out when after witnessing the massive flame wars over this product i checked under the hood myself. and there it was. yesterday after grilling a mechanic at a dodge dealership about other things he mentioned to avoid the k&n filters. claimed his turbo sucked it white -- meaning all that pink oil on the filter got blown out and gummed up his turbo. this idea horrified me. if his turbo could suck hard enough to pull the oil out of the filter he needed a lot bigger filter for his engine cause that much suction could only come from a hugely restrictive intake. so i queried dodge using their online tech support form asking if they had a formal position on k&n air filters. their response was daimlerchrysler does not have a position regarding the use of aftermarket parts. we are unable to make any recommendations regarding the use of non-factory parts or accessories. damn. i cant seem to locate *any* formal evaluations online at least concerning the effectiveness and/or dangers of the k&n filter. i realize how touchy a subject this is. i do *not* want a holy war. i just want to avoid damage to my truck. i dont care about the possibly wasted cost of the k&n filter the gains/loss in mpg/hp or my pride. i want whats best for the truck. thats it. to attempt to keep things civil i have 3 simple questions for all of you 1. is there any merrit to claim that the oil in the k&n can mess up a turbo 2. in your opinion should i ditch the k&n 3. if yes to #2 is there a preferred brand of normal air filter thanks. 1. maybe but i doubt it. control yourself with the oiling and you should be fine. 2. no. ive used them on several vehicles with no problems ever. my old 88 s10 blazer has 200k on it with the same k&n i put on it in 1989. my friend has it now and believe me the engine is the only bright spot it has left. i dont have one on my current truck though dont know why. 3. nah buy whatevers on sale at wal mart. i change mine every year. from when i sold them the main difference is construction some are glued together a lot better but as far as filtering goes i doubt it. bdk .
From : max340
the concept seemed valid to me filters just as good better air flow there is no such thing as a free lunch. that statement is invalid in this instance. proof they let more crap through. they dont flow significantly better than paper filters but they are still better. how got proof the filtration test showed that the k&n was not all that much different from the paper ones but you claim its better.... how while true a turbo is not all that fragile bullshit. learn something about turbos. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .
From : tbone
simply because it is better to be safe than sorry and requires little knowledge to follow the manufacturers recommendations. and yknow maybe yknow because yknow they might be...right i never said that they were not right only that it is easier to blindly follow manufacturers recommendations rather than try to understand why. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving . 222 283497 qgovc.4936$wh4.238732@twister.southeast.rr.com on thu 3 jun 2004 tbone wrote filters just as good better air flow there is no such thing as a free lunch. that statement is invalid in this instance. better flow less filtration. better filtration less flow. simple as that. no actually it is not. that is only true with all things being equal and that is not the case here. the alleged k&n magic does not exist. there is no magic about it just effective surface area and the type of trapping method. some methods are more efficient than others for any subject and if you dont understand that then you are not as bright as you think you are. true believers in the one and only true god k&n may disagree with me; i dont care. thereve been zero tests coming even close to demonstrating k&ns bs claims of equal-or-better filtration and there are no valid labratory ones the other way either. and the true believers always resort to retorting well you cant prove its not as good! no that doesnt count you didnt do the magic tapdance and say the magic chant while you were testing the k&n against a paper filter so the results are no good! etc. lol where is that coming from if you are referring to the test that you and max posted it is invalid because there are too many uncontrolled variables. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .
From : steve w
last night i was leaving my work. i put the truck in reverse and stepped on the gas. the truck rolled forward! i put my foot on the brake to stop it from hitting the curb. this happened to me about a month ago. i talked myself into believing that maybe i just didnt have it shifted fully into the reverse position but last night im pretty sure it was in the right gear. i stepped on the gas again and it slowly went into reverse...not a sudden engagement. after that i pulled forward and reverse several times and all seems okay. i was parked on a slight incline all day. could that have something to do with it anyone else seen this or have some insight as to what might be happening 04 dakota 2500 miles mark easy enough. check the fluid for starters. make sure its full. second we cant see the incline but if you had it there for say...6 or 7 hours and for whatever reason the pickup was slightly exposed and not submerged in fluid since the pumps wont pump in park you put it in reverse and the pump went to pumping air or sucking some air with it. next time put it in n for a moment and then hit reverse. .
From : max340
daniel j. stern wrote on wed 2 jun 2004 nosey wrote what the hell are you guys talking about all amsoil motor oils meet api standards. nope. you are confusing api service grades such as sh sj sk sl etc. with api approval. only their xl-7500 and one or two others are api approved. scamsoil makes a big deal out of claiming that api approval is ok for commodity oils but not necessary for a superior product like ours but the fact is that most automakers require api-approved engine oil. i know my dodge truck does -- how bout yours -stern i think i understand what you are trying to explain. meeting the api service grade requirement isnt the same as being api certified. is that right if amsoil conforms to an api service grade why wouldnt the api approve of it it seems that the api would have to approve or certify any product that meets their own requirements. .
From : max340
yep just like my proof that the sun will rise from the east tomorrow morning. in this case. thats not good enough. youve made a claim about a situation you know nothing about now back it with irrefutable proof. or do you carry a double standard only 97% lol. and iirc they said that about some of their filters not all of them. better check the site before you go laughing it off. or is this your way of admitting you were wrong without saying it perhaps you should look at the picture again. perhaps you should read what he says instead of simply looking at the pics. he says the k&n appeared to allow more dirt than he was originally led to believe. he notes that the 1% difference quoted by k&n could be a large amount of dirt. he also says that the while the k&n flowed more than a paper filter the difference was so marginal as to be unusable by a street engine. something ive been saying for years regarding k&n btw the k&n did flow the best even though that test was also invalid if i read his setup correctly. and while you are claiming everything is invalid you may want to note that a someone has tested k&n and found exactly whats been said all along and b you havent offered proof as to why his test is invalid other than it seems to disagree with your mindset. hell even he said that he owned many k&n filters and may buy others at a later time. hell ill probably buy another one when the k&n breather cap i have dries out again.what dries out that never happens right whatever. it seems you are still the same bs artist as always. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .
From : max340
yes. because of its rpm the turbo can collect any dust/particles/droplets in the air going through it. really then how fast does the air filter spin to do its job lol! fine proof of your lack of knowledge in using the english language. also because of the temperature of the housing it can cook any oil film that may accumulate there. hahahahaha the exhaust side has a much greater chance of that happening and it seems to do ok with it. seems i suppose it does fine unless the engine has blowby since typically there isnt any oil in the exhaust. typically unless you use a k&n there is no oil in the intake either. if you put an object that disperses liquid and the filter does since its coated in it and has a constant airflow through it some of that oil is gonna be in the air. in order for it to condense it would have to be evaporated first. where exactly is this happening and at what quantity which is the problem in a nutshell. if you are willing to gamble the answer to this question use a k&n airfilter. if you are unsure about what happens given the possibilities to the oil on the filter then do not use a k&n. according to you any oil would be cooked by the turbo housing. could be could be evaporated. i merely suggested possibilities none of which youve refuted. yes. a even k&n admits to a larger amount of dust coming through re-defining the language again i see. not at all. read it and thats what it says. if it filters less then it lets more through. yea my cousins best friend heard from his aunts brother twice removed that he overheard a customer saying that a tech said that k&n will void the warranty. or you could quote simmons who has the credentials to speak on the subject... and said that dc warned against them. iow nothing but second hand shit on the web and nothing in writing from a direct credible source because it doesnt exist. sorta like all your claims that k&n is so great but no proof. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .
From : dddd
you will start the wars again but if you are looking for ojective info i would suggest using the paper filter. there is a slight chance that the k&n if improperly oiled will cause problems. you never know if the mechanic doing the oiling is doing it properly or not so just on the off-chance that he might screw up use the paper filter to set your mind at ease. if you do it yourself and you know what you are doing and you feel comfortable doing it use the k&n. they are ok if used properly but feeling comfortable might not be enough for you. dddd the vehicle is a 99 ram 2500 24v cummins td. ive had this truck for 3 weeks. right after i bought it i went to a trusted local shop for oil change and have the fluids checked. as is usual wuth most good lube jobs filters get replaced when needed. concerning the air filter i was advised of a reusable air filter so i went with it. the concept seemed valid to me filters just as good better air flow reusable. the tree hugger in my liked the idea of not tossing something else in the trash every time i got serviced. the extra price seemed justified. i can hear the groans in the crowd already... yup -- it turned out to be a k&n filter. i only found this out when after witnessing the massive flame wars over this product i checked under the hood myself. and there it was. yesterday after grilling a mechanic at a dodge dealership about other things he mentioned to avoid the k&n filters. claimed his turbo sucked it white -- meaning all that pink oil on the filter got blown out and gummed up his turbo. this idea horrified me. so i queried dodge using their online tech support form asking if they had a formal position on k&n air filters. their response was daimlerchrysler does not have a position regarding the use of aftermarket parts. we are unable to make any recommendations regarding the use of non-factory parts or accessories. damn. i cant seem to locate *any* formal evaluations online at least concerning the effectiveness and/or dangers of the k&n filter. i realize how touchy a subject this is. i do *not* want a holy war. i just want to avoid damage to my truck. i dont care about the possibly wasted cost of the k&n filter the gains/loss in mpg/hp or my pride. i want whats best for the truck. thats it. to attempt to keep things civil i have 3 simple questions for all of you 1. is there any merrit to claim that the oil in the k&n can mess up a turbo 2. in your opinion should i ditch the k&n 3. if yes to #2 is there a preferred brand of normal air filter thanks. .
From : tbone
lol! -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving on thu 03 jun 2004 212417 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote on 03 jun 2004 202925 gmt max340@aol.compost max340 wrote any good paper element will likely do and the opinions vary widely on brand. max a couple of old maxi pads held in place with a rubberband should fill the bill. no no no that would be considered a cotton filter and we all know about that treacherous 1% lol. not a problem with used ones! the hard part is wiping the smile off the engines face. beekeep .
From : beekeep
on thu 03 jun 2004 212417 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote on 03 jun 2004 202925 gmt max340@aol.compost max340 wrote any good paper element will likely do and the opinions vary widely on brand. max a couple of old maxi pads held in place with a rubberband should fill the bill. no no no that would be considered a cotton filter and we all know about that treacherous 1% lol. not a problem with used ones! the hard part is wiping the smile off the engines face. beekeep .
From : tbone
the concept seemed valid to me filters just as good better air flow there is no such thing as a free lunch. that statement is invalid in this instance. proof lol. the statement is invalid because the k&n uses a different technology costs more to produce sells for more money and requires more skill to use than a paper filter hence no free lunch. they let more crap through. they dont flow significantly better than paper filters but they are still better. how got proof yea the numbers in the very article that you posted moron. the filtration test showed that the k&n was not all that much different from the paper ones but you claim its better.... how better flow than all of them better filtration than many and at least equal to most sounds better to me. while true a turbo is not all that fragile bullshit. learn something about turbos. sorry max but i have probably forgotten more about turbos then you would ever know. while far from indestructible they are hardly fragile either or they would never be able to survive their environments and would have no business on a motor vehicle. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .
From : tbone
here we go with this misleading bs again. if these companies have issued notices about k&n then provide direct links instead of this generalized fifth hand crap. if you actually bothered to read it it clearly states an o v e r o i l e d reusable filter may void the warranty not a reusable filter in general and nothing specific about k&n at all. and even then the test have to prove that the excess oil caused the problems. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving do not use a k&n ford and gm are voiding warranties on vehicles that are using them. both have issued notices about them. also a few studies have shown that the k&n let much more dirt and dust through than any paper element. info - automatic transmission shift engine driveability concerns or service engine soon ses light on as a result of the installation of an aftermarket reusable excessively oiled air filter #04-07-30-013 - 03/05/2004 automatic transmission shift engine driveability concerns or service engine soon ses light on as a result of the installation of an aftermarket reusable excessively oiled air filter 2004 and prior cars and light duty trucks 2003-2004 hummer h2 first inspect the vehicle for a reusable aftermarket oiled air filter do not repair under warranty if concerns result from the use of a reusable aftermarket oiled air filter. the installation of an aftermarket reusable oiled air filter may result in a.. service engine soon ses light on b.. transmission shift concerns slipping and damaged clutches or bands c.. engine driveability concerns poor acceleration from a stop limited engine rpm range the oil that is used on these air filter elements may be transferred onto the mass air flow maf sensor causing contamination of the sensor. as a result the grams per second gps signal from the maf may be low and any or all of the concerns listed above may occur. when servicing a vehicle with any of these concerns be sure to check for the presence of an aftermarket reusable excessively oiled air filter. the maf gps reading should be compared to a like vehicle with a oem air box and filter under the same driving conditions to verify the concern. transmission or engine driveability concerns that are the result of the installation of an aftermarket reusable excessively oiled air filter are not considered to be warrantable repair items. subj k & n filters john if i wrote subjective i meant objective.. i was responsible for evaluating re-usable air filters for a major construction/mining company that had hundreds of vehicles ranging from large earthmovers to pick-up trucks and salesmens cars. this study was embarked upon due to the fact that we were spending upwards of $30000 a month on paper air filters. using them one time then throwing them away.. i inititated the study in that i was convinced that a k&n type filter or oiled foam would save us many dollars per year in filter savings man hour savings and of course engines as these would filter dirt better than paper. yes i had read the k&n ads and was a believer representative test units were chosen to give us a broad spectrum from cars right through large front end loaders. with each unit we had a long history of oil analysis records so that changes would be trackable. unfortunately for me every single unit having alternative re-usable air cleaners showed an immediate large jump in silicon dirt levels with corresponding major increases in wear metals. in one extreme case a unit with a primary and secondary air cleaner the secondary small paper element clogged before even one days test run could be completed. this particular unit had a cummins v-12 engine that had paper/paper one one bank and k&n/paper on the other bank; two completely independent induction systems. the conditions were exactly duplicated for each bank yet the k&n allowed so much dirt to pass through that the small filter became clogged before lunch. the same outcome occured with oiled foams on this unit. we discontinued the tests on the large pieces almost immediately but continued with service trucks formens vehicles and my own company car. analysis results continued showing markedly increased wear rates for all the vehicles mine included. test concluded switched back to paper/glass and all vehicles showed reduction back to near original levels of both wear metals and dirt. i continued with the k&n on my company car out of stubborness and at 85000 miles the chevy 305 v-8 wheezed its last breath. the top end was sanded badly; bottom end was just fine. end of test. i must stress that everyone involved in this test was hoping that alternative filters would work as everyone was sick about pulling out a perfectly good $85 air cleaner and throwing 4 of them away each week per machine... so i strongly suggest that depending upon an individuals long term plan for their vehicl
From : tbone
yep just like my proof that the sun will rise from the east tomorrow morning. in this case. thats not good enough. youve made a claim about a situation you know nothing about now back it with irrefutable proof. lol that is impossible to prove and if you had half a brain you would know that. it is impossible to prove that something cant happen and if you believe that it is tell us how. but what is possible is to prove that something can happen and if you think that a vacuum on this planet at even sea level can pull the oil out of the filter then prove it. or do you carry a double standard that would be you. what is your proof that it could happen. everyone else in here that responded also said that it is highly unlikely or impossible and since the majority is in agreement with me lets see you do some proving for a change. only 97% lol. and iirc they said that about some of their filters not all of them. better check the site before you go laughing it off. or is this your way of admitting you were wrong without saying it no i just laugh at your wild spin and redefinitions of what they said. perhaps you should look at the picture again. perhaps you should read what he says instead of simply looking at the pics. how does that go a picture is worth a thousand words. regardless of what he said and you method of spinning it into what you want him to say the picture shows no significant difference between the k&n and most of the paper filters and it actually looked better than two of the paper ones. he says the k&n appeared to allow more dirt than he was originally led to believe. that has no meaning as we have no idea what he believed it to be and he didnt say. he notes that the 1% difference quoted by k&n could be a large amount of dirt. could and is are not the same thing and his own tests proved in fact that it is not. he also says that the while the k&n flowed more than a paper filter the difference was so marginal as to be unusable by a street engine. something ive been saying for years regarding k&n cut and paste that exact sentence. btw the k&n did flow the best even though that test was also invalid if i read his setup correctly. and while you are claiming everything is invalid you may want to note that a someone has tested k&n and found exactly whats been said all along and b you havent offered proof as to why his test is invalid other than it seems to disagree with your mindset. his test was far from scientific and if he was using two filters for his flow test with the gauge input between them like it seems to say in his description then the test does not show valid numbers because the second filters drop will effect the drop in the filter being tested. since the pressure drop in an air filter is not linear any other drop that affects the airflow makes the test useless. hell even he said that he owned many k&n filters and may buy others at a later time. hell ill probably buy another one when the k&n breather cap i have dries out again.what dries out that never happens right never used one so i have no idea but i dont recall either k&n or that guy refer to a breather cap as an air filter. is this another one of your redefinitions to back up your invalid points again whatever. it seems you are still the same bs artist as always. looking in the mirror again -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .
From : max340
the statement is invalid because the k&n uses a different technology lol costs more to produce sells for more money and requires more skill to use than a paper filter hence no free lunch. lol you are too blind to understand what stern said that much is clear. sucks to be you. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .
From : tbone
yes. because of its rpm the turbo can collect any dust/particles/droplets in the air going through it. really then how fast does the air filter spin to do its job lol! fine proof of your lack of knowledge in using the english language. now that would be you since you were unable to explain it either but with the high rpm thatr you are usually spinning i can see why. also because of the temperature of the housing it can cook any oil film that may accumulate there. hahahahaha the exhaust side has a much greater chance of that happening and it seems to do ok with it. seems i suppose it does fine unless the engine has blowby since typically there isnt any oil in the exhaust. oh really i guess that your rings are perfect and there is never a micron of oil in the combustion chamber in your maxworld engine and you have a tiny black hole that your crank case ventilates into. and then that black smoke that a diesel dumps out is just fairy dust lol. typically unless you use a k&n there is no oil in the intake either. why do you keep using words like typically and usually in all of your sentences. are you not sure about anything if you put an object that disperses liquid and the filter does since its coated in it and has a constant airflow through it some of that oil is gonna be in the air. the point is is there enough to even measure never mind affect the turbo or any other part of the intake. remember we are not talking about an over oiled filter. btw what does dispersion have to do with it in order for it to condense it would have to be evaporated first. where exactly is this happening and at what quantity which is the problem in a nutshell. if you are willing to gamble the answer to this question use a k&n airfilter. if you are unsure about what happens given the possibilities to the oil on the filter then do not use a k&n. more conservative fear tactics. if you have even the slightest doubt run away. there is not enough oilon that filter to harm that turbo even if you sprayed it directly into it. according to you any oil would be cooked by the turbo housing. could be could be evaporated. i merely suggested possibilities none of which youve refuted. iow just reaching and using complete bs to justify your paranoia and strike fear. there is not enough oil on that filter to cause the turbo any harm and even if there was there is no way for the turbo to pull it off of the filter in enough volume to cause harm anyway. yes. a even k&n admits to a larger amount of dust coming through re-defining the language again i see. not at all. read it and thats what it says. if it filters less then it lets more through. but that is an invalid assumption and his own data shows it to be incorrect. the oiled foam filter also tested was more restrictive than the k&n and still allowed in much more dirt which blows your theory and his to hell in a hand basket. sorry maxi but the proof was provided by you and is there for all to see. yea my cousins best friend heard from his aunts brother twice removed that he overheard a customer saying that a tech said that k&n will void the warranty. or you could quote simmons who has the credentials to speak on the subject... and said that dc warned against them. while mike is a well respected member of this group he is also saying that he heard it from a trainer who heard it from someone else. when he puts it into writing officially from him as a legal representative from dc then i will say differently but until then it is just more 5th hand unofficial rumors. iow nothing but second hand shit on the web and nothing in writing from a direct credible source because it doesnt exist. sorta like all your claims that k&n is so great but no proof. lol please point out exactly where i said that k&n was so great. i simply said that they are not as dangerous as you paranoid freaks like to claim. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .
From : steve w
gm bulletin #04-07-30-013 - 03/05/2004 states any notice any reusable oiled air filter. first inspect the vehicle for a reusable aftermarket oiled air filter. do not repair under warranty if concerns result from the use of a reusable aftermarket oiled air filter. no testing is required just a visual inspection. they open the air box/and remove the filter then visually look in the intake duct. the tech then decides if there is oil there if he open the box and sees an oiled filer there he can just close it back up and send you packing. just because you seem to think your opinion makes you correct you are wrong. any automaker can void a warrantee if the parts you put on caused the problem. the mm act only says that if the part meets the proper standards then they cannot void the warrantee however if the vehicle did not come from the factory with an oiled filter it is going to be hard to say that it matches the standards. -- steve williams here we go with this misleading bs again. if these companies have issued notices about k&n then provide direct links instead of this generalized fifth hand crap. if you actually bothered to read it it clearly states an o v e r o i l e d reusable filter may void the warranty not a reusable filter in general and nothing specific about k&n at all. and even then the test have to prove that the excess oil caused the problems. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving do not use a k&n ford and gm are voiding warranties on vehicles that are using them. both have issued notices about them. also a few studies have shown that the k&n let much more dirt and dust through than any paper element. info - automatic transmission shift engine driveability concerns or service engine soon ses light on as a result of the installation of an aftermarket reusable excessively oiled air filter #04-07-30-013 - 03/05/2004 automatic transmission shift engine driveability concerns or service engine soon ses light on as a result of the installation of an aftermarket reusable excessively oiled air filter 2004 and prior cars and light duty trucks 2003-2004 hummer h2 first inspect the vehicle for a reusable aftermarket oiled air filter do not repair under warranty if concerns result from the use of a reusable aftermarket oiled air filter. the installation of an aftermarket reusable oiled air filter may result in a.. service engine soon ses light on b.. transmission shift concerns slipping and damaged clutches or bands c.. engine driveability concerns poor acceleration from a stop limited engine rpm range the oil that is used on these air filter elements may be transferred onto the mass air flow maf sensor causing contamination of the sensor. as a result the grams per second gps signal from the maf may be low and any or all of the concerns listed above may occur. when servicing a vehicle with any of these concerns be sure to check for the presence of an aftermarket reusable excessively oiled air filter. the maf gps reading should be compared to a like vehicle with a oem air box and filter under the same driving conditions to verify the concern. transmission or engine driveability concerns that are the result of the installation of an aftermarket reusable excessively oiled air filter are not considered to be warrantable repair items. subj k & n filters john if i wrote subjective i meant objective.. i was responsible for evaluating re-usable air filters for a major construction/mining company that had hundreds of vehicles ranging from large earthmovers to pick-up trucks and salesmens cars. this study was embarked upon due to the fact that we were spending upwards of $30000 a month on paper air filters. using them one time then throwing them away.. i inititated the study in that i was convinced that a k&n type filter or oiled foam would save us many dollars per year in filter savings man hour savings and of course engines as these would filter dirt better than paper. yes i had read the k&n ads and was a believer representative test units were chosen to give us a broad spectrum from cars right through large front end loaders. with each unit we had a long history of oil analysis records so that changes would be trackable. unfortunately for me every single unit having alternative re-usable air cleaners showed an immediate large jump in silicon dirt levels with corresponding major increases in wear metals. in one extreme case a unit with a primary and secondary air cleaner the secondary small paper element clogged before even one days test run could be completed. this particular unit had a cummins v-12 engine that had paper/paper one one bank and k&n/paper on the other bank; two completely independent induction systems. the conditions were exactly duplicated for each bank yet the k&n allowed so much dirt
From : theguy
on 04 jun 2004 202436 gmt max340@aol.compost max340 wrote the statement is invalid because the k&n uses a different technology lol costs more to produce sells for more money and requires more skill to use than a paper filter hence no free lunch. lol you are too blind to understand what stern said that much is clear. sucks to be you. whoa! here is where you are wrong. k&n well........im not so sure that they are such a good deal. but when you are talking about sux to be tbone....well you fall off the edge of the flat world there scottie. there are only one or two people in the whole world that it would suck more to be than you and they are both on this ng but tbone isnt one of them. just saying scottie. just saying. max life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan .
From : tbone
the statement is invalid because the k&n uses a different technology lol costs more to produce sells for more money and requires more skill to use than a paper filter hence no free lunch. lol you are too blind to understand what stern said that much is clear. lol it is not that i didnt understand what he said it is what he said didnt apply here. i should have known that you are not bright enough to see that. but then again you still think that the pump in an transmission is perfect and 100% efficient. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .
From : tbone
gm bulletin #04-07-30-013 - 03/05/2004 states any notice any reusable oiled air filter. it actually says engine soon ses light on as a result of the installation of an aftermarket reusable excessively oiled air filter #04-07-30-013 - 03/05/2004 notice the word excessively!!! perhaps you just need to learn how to read. as for the hummer it states a specific list of problems and how to test to make sure that it was caused by the oil. they cannot just see the filter and cry no warranty regardless of what you believe. first inspect the vehicle for a reusable aftermarket oiled air filter. do not repair under warranty if concerns result from the use of a reusable aftermarket oiled air filter. once again you fail to comprehend what was written. notice that it clearly says if concerns result from and the only way to know that is to test for it and prove it. no testing is required just a visual inspection. learn how to read. they open the air box/and remove the filter then visually look in the intake duct. the tech then decides if there is oil there if he open the box and sees an oiled filer there he can just close it back up and send you packing. that is not what it says and doing this would result in an easy victory for the customer in court. just because you seem to think your opinion makes you correct you are wrong. it is not my opinion it is what is written in your article. any automaker can void a warrantee if the parts you put on caused the problem. that is completely correct and they need to prove that. just seeing it there is not proof of anything. the mm act only says that if the part meets the proper standards then they cannot void the warrantee however if the vehicle did not come from the factory with an oiled filter it is going to be hard to say that it matches the standards. the k&n does comply with current standards regardless of what you may want to believe or carb would not have approved it for use on emission controlled vehicles. as for the oil if the filter was not over oiled it will not come off in sufficient quantity to cause problems or the wording would have been any oiled filter not any excessivly oiled filter. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .
From : tbone
gm bulletin #04-07-30-013 - 03/05/2004 states any notice any reusable oiled air filter. first inspect the vehicle for a reusable aftermarket oiled air filter. do not repair under warranty if concerns result from the use of a reusable aftermarket oiled air filter. no testing is required just a visual inspection. they open the air box/and remove the filter then visually look in the intake duct. the tech then decides if there is oil there if he open the box and sees an oiled filer there he can just close it back up and send you packing. just because you seem to think your opinion makes you correct you are wrong. any automaker can void a warrantee if the parts you put on caused the problem. the mm act only says that if the part meets the proper standards then they cannot void the warrantee however if the vehicle did not come from the factory with an oiled filter it is going to be hard to say that it matches the standards. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .
From : kens
1. is there any merit to claim that the oil in the k&n can mess up a turbo put it this way...oil can mess up a number of things if introduced into the intake. the k&n system should not get oil into the turbo if you apply the oil properly to the filter. 2. in your opinion should i ditch the k&n since this is my opinion...yes. why..... see answer 1. 3. if yes to #2 is there a preferred brand of normal air filter whatever you fancy as long as the specs from the filter factory are within tolerance for the vehicle. the factory controls the quality of a given paper air filter. you control the quality of a k&n. that is why you will not likely see information from any auto manufacturer instructing you not to use it in their vehicle. the filter must have the potential to perform satisfactorily whatever that means to you. kens the vehicle is a 99 ram 2500 24v cummins td. ive had this truck for 3 weeks. right after i bought it i went to a trusted local shop for oil change and have the fluids checked. as is usual wuth most good lube jobs filters get replaced when needed. concerning the air filter i was advised of a reusable air filter so i went with it. the concept seemed valid to me filters just as good better air flow reusable. the tree hugger in my liked the idea of not tossing something else in the trash every time i got serviced. the extra price seemed justified. i can hear the groans in the crowd already... yup -- it turned out to be a k&n filter. i only found this out when after witnessing the massive flame wars over this product i checked under the hood myself. and there it was. yesterday after grilling a mechanic at a dodge dealership about other things he mentioned to avoid the k&n filters. claimed his turbo sucked it white -- meaning all that pink oil on the filter got blown out and gummed up his turbo. this idea horrified me. so i queried dodge using their online tech support form asking if they had a formal position on k&n air filters. their response was daimlerchrysler does not have a position regarding the use of aftermarket parts. we are unable to make any recommendations regarding the use of non-factory parts or accessories. damn. i cant seem to locate *any* formal evaluations online at least concerning the effectiveness and/or dangers of the k&n filter. i realize how touchy a subject this is. i do *not* want a holy war. i just want to avoid damage to my truck. i dont care about the possibly wasted cost of the k&n filter the gains/loss in mpg/hp or my pride. i want whats best for the truck. thats it. to attempt to keep things civil i have 3 simple questions for all of you 1. is there any merrit to claim that the oil in the k&n can mess up a turbo 2. in your opinion should i ditch the k&n 3. if yes to #2 is there a preferred brand of normal air filter thanks. .
From : paul jensen
on thu 03 jun 2004 212417 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote on 03 jun 2004 202925 gmt max340@aol.compost max340 wrote any good paper element will likely do and the opinions vary widely on brand. max a couple of old maxi pads held in place with a rubberband should fill the bill. no no no that would be considered a cotton filter and we all know about that treacherous 1% lol. not a problem with used ones! well that answers the question i was going to ask! .
From : t
well if it matters i heard that if use a k&n filter you must use the box made for k&n to sit in as well as the modified hoses. the k&n filters do not seat right / tight in the oem box therefore the filter will not catch all the crap you are trying to catch. cdr las vegasnv. .
From : chris
k&n make filters to go into the original air intake system. they work fine and fit fine. just get the one for the oem intake setup. but i prefer an open air filter. i have dynoed these against the cold air system and they work better however the cold air system may pick up something from the ram air effect at speed so use whichever. on mon 05 jul 2004 021726 gmt t noway@aol.com wrote well if it matters i heard that if use a k&n filter you must use the box made for k&n to sit in as well as the modified hoses. the k&n filters do not seat right / tight in the oem box therefore the filter will not catch all the crap you are trying to catch. cdr las vegasnv. .
From : big al
k&n make filters to go into the original air intake system. they work fine and fit fine. just get the one for the oem intake setup. but i prefer an open air filter. i have dynoed these against the cold air system and they work better however the cold air system may pick up something from the ram air effect at speed so use whichever. on mon 05 jul 2004 021726 gmt t noway@aol.com wrote well if it matters i heard that if use a k&n filter you must use the box made for k&n to sit in as well as the modified hoses. the k&n filters do not seat right / tight in the oem box therefore the filter will not catch all the crap you are trying to catch. cdr las vegasnv. fram is selling a k&n rip off. they call it the air hawg. al .
From : chris
frams probably works as good. way back when we use to use a foam rubber one with a little oil sprayed on it on our race bikes. but i have read the independent tests and the k&ns and such do allow more particles into the engine. probably dont hurt if you are tearing them down every 100000 like i do but who knows. on mon 5 jul 2004 070309 -0700 big al nospamsal1@qwest.net wrote k&n make filters to go into the original air intake system. they work fine and fit fine. just get the one for the oem intake setup. but i prefer an open air filter. i have dynoed these against the cold air system and they work better however the cold air system may pick up something from the ram air effect at speed so use whichever. on mon 05 jul 2004 021726 gmt t noway@aol.com wrote well if it matters i heard that if use a k&n filter you must use the box made for k&n to sit in as well as the modified hoses. the k&n filters do not seat right / tight in the oem box therefore the filter will not catch all the crap you are trying to catch. cdr las vegasnv. fram is selling a k&n rip off. they call it the air hawg. al .
From : tbone
k&n make filters to go into the original air intake system. they work fine and fit fine. just get the one for the oem intake setup. but i prefer an open air filter. i have dynoed these against the cold air system and they work better however the cold air system may pick up something from the ram air effect at speed so use whichever. on mon 05 jul 2004 021726 gmt t noway@aol.com wrote well if it matters i heard that if use a k&n filter you must use the box made for k&n to sit in as well as the modified hoses. the k&n filters do not seat right / tight in the oem box therefore the filter will not catch all the crap you are trying to catch. cdr las vegasnv. fram is selling a k&n rip off. they call it the air hawg. which just goes to show that the k&n is not an bad as some in here claim it to be. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .
From : kens
hey clydegary my 69 beetle autostick uses the oil bath also. i service it once a year or so. i have never fouled the sensors or turbo on this powerful engine so i must be doing something right.when i clean it. ;- ken 2. in your opinion should i ditch the k&n 3. if yes to #2 is there a preferred brand of normal air filter thanks. my 1951 studebaker has an oil bath air cleaner that has lasted almost 200000 miles. does it restrict flow i dont know and dont give a f*ck. it will pass emmissions and it gets 22 hwy mpg. about once per year i tear it down pour the old oil and sludge out on the ground along with the dirt sticks june bugs and grasshoppers then wash it down with gas. finally i pour a quart of reprocessed oil back in and im ready for another year of happy motoring. maybe you could adapt one of these. it could be done in a lot less man hours than it took to type this thread which has accomplished absolutely nothing.. so many garys ..so.. clyde .
From : Annonymous
on mon 05 jul 2004 191338 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote the problem with that is that fram has a reputation to maintain as a high quality replacement filter company. if the oiled filter is as bad as some claim they would not risk the company reputation and therefore the company itself making them. just because you dont believe them does not make it bs. i have found their oem replacements k&n to fit very well and to be as effective as the oem paper filters. .
From : tbone
the problem with that is that fram has a reputation to maintain as a high quality replacement filter company. if the oiled filter is as bad as some claim they would not risk the company reputation and therefore the company itself making them. just because you dont believe them does not make it bs. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving k&n make filters to go into the original air intake system. they work fine and fit fine. just get the one for the oem intake setup. but i prefer an open air filter. i have dynoed these against the cold air system and they work better however the cold air system may pick up something from the ram air effect at speed so use whichever. on mon 05 jul 2004 021726 gmt t noway@aol.com wrote well if it matters i heard that if use a k&n filter you must use the box made for k&n to sit in as well as the modified hoses. the k&n filters do not seat right / tight in the oem box therefore the filter will not catch all the crap you are trying to catch. cdr las vegasnv. fram is selling a k&n rip off. they call it the air hawg. which just goes to show that the k&n is not an bad as some in here claim it to be. they have one of the better marketing bs going. it would only follow that they would be copied. .
From : roy
the problem with that is that fram has a reputation to maintain as a high quality replacement filter company. if the oiled filter is as bad as some claim they would not risk the company reputation and therefore the company itself making them. just because you dont believe them does not make it bs. most established companies look at the bottom line nothing more. i thought the fram air filter was a throw away. also i thought that cummins found problems with the fram oil filters. not sure how that ended. what i dont believe is k$ns bs claim of gains in horsepower. .
From : milesh
tbone wrote lol just flush that money right down the toilet. hmm. didnt see any of your recommendations just ranting. .
From : paul jensen
do not use a k&n ford and gm are voiding warranties on vehicles that are using them. he said his truck is a 99. probably not under warranty. .