ATF+4 and the ILMA

From : noseyredneck tookover hell

Q: i just stumbled upon this article by the independent lubricant manufacturers association dated november 17 2003. i could not find any of the ftc doing anything about it. ilma last week asked the federal trade commission ftc to bring an enforcement action against the daimler chrysler corporation dcc for violations of the manguson-moss warranty act act and the commissions implementing regulations. the association said that the automaker has unfairly restricted access to its atf+4 transmission fluid and has engaged in improper tying arrangements under the act. the association has been rebuffed by dcc in its efforts to raise members concerns directly with the automaker. in its letter to the ftc ilma said that dcc has specified atf+4 for all chrysler vehicles with automatic transmissions except for certain minivans prior to 1999. as a result the association said that warranty coverage for most chrysler vehicles with automatic transmissions is dependent upon the use of atf+4 for top offs and flushes. ilma said that dcc has promised but has not delivered a licensing program for atf+4. at the same time the association noted that dcc owns the additive system and will not allow the additive supplier to sell chemistry to companies not specified by the automaker. similarly the finished fluid manufacturers for dccs factory fill refuse to resell the product ilma added. the association asserted in its letter to the ftc that members have lost longstanding contracts with chrysler dealers. the magnuson-moss warranty act prohibits an automaker from specifying the use of a brand-specific automatic transmission for warranty coverage unless it gives the product away without charge said ilma counsel jeff leiter. the ftc needs to know that consumers long term interests are not being served by chryslers actions he added. ilma also complained to the ftc about a tying arrangement dcc is forcing on its dealers who want to buy atf+4 in bulk. the association presented evidence to the commission that in order for a chrysler dealer to buy atf+4 in bulk it had to agree to buy mopar bulk oil in at least two grades. if the dealer refuses to participate in the mopar bulk oil program then it can purchase atf+4 only in smaller more expensive packages. to chrysler this probably is another revenue stream for a product code said ilma executive director celeste powers. however to ilma members this is unfair competition which hurts motorists she added. if chrysler can get away with this it will embolden other original equipment manufacturers so ilma had to take a stand powers commented. copies of ilmas letter to the ftc will be available on the associations website at http//www.ilma.org .

Replies:

From : redneck tookover hell

not required here in new hampshire as of yet. carl put your seat belt on. it is the law in most if not all of the 50 states. philip kirk metcalf wrote i just purchased a 2004 ram 1500. i was wondering if anyone knew how to shut up the annoying seatbelt tone i hate wearing my seatbelt but this thing dings every 10 or so seconds if it is not plugged in. any ideas -- kirk & tammy metcalf e-mail metcalf@longlines.com webpage http//www.longlines.com/kmetcalf .

From : tbone

while this may be true ill take your word for it power steering systems dont require two or more complete changes per year and even if they did they dont require any where near the volume of it that a transmission does. well it looks like there is now a second source for atf4 from royal purple but i bet that it still costs as much if not more than the factory stuff. maybe when they redesign the automatic with reduced maintenance requirements lower cost fluids or at least a drain plug and external filters i will go back to them but in the mean time i will stick with the manual shift they are more fun to drive anyway. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving i dont know if they are restricting the chemistry or not but if you dont use genuine gm or ac delco power steering fluid youll be replacing what you put in with the genuine stuff to get your power steering to work honda is pretty much the same way neither company appears to be sharing their chemistry with the aftermarket now if the aftermarket cant get the chemistry right for power steering fluid maybe its not such a bad idea to restrict sharing for something as valuable as a current automotive automatic transmission why should chryco be doing warranty repairs on its transmissions if the aftermarket trans fluid caused the problems but are both honda and gm restricting the chemistry of these fluids or is the demand so light for such specific fluids that the aftermarket just sees no profit in manufacturing and marketing them ill start watching reality tv shows when i can vote people off the planet. .

From : redneck tookover hell

maybe when they redesign the automatic with reduced maintenance requirements lower cost fluids or at least a drain plug and external filters i will go back to them but in the mean time judging by the posts or lack thereof of complaints about the auto trannys using atf +4 seems like chryco has it right. now you are advocating going back to the old way its no big deal to add a $3.95 drain plug and plumb in an external filter. somebody must be changing fluid in those power steering systems to find this out maybe its called topping the system or transmission with aftermarket fluid or incorrect fluid. so i am still asking the question if somebody uses fluid with the wrong chemistry and it screws up the power steering or the auto transmission why should the automaker be forced to warranty it in the pharmaceutical business its called patent which protects your invention so you can recover your development costsyou know like the viagra you use or you buying yours offshore over the net once you share the chemistry then the genie out of the bottle im not sure if you realize these modern vehicles actually have more in common with the space shuttle than they do with older vehicles. just thought id mention that in passing other than that i guess the automakers could go back to carburetors distributors get rid of electronic transmissions computers overdrives power steering power brakes ac and start using crash box 4 speeds ill start watching reality tv shows when i can vote people off the planet. .

From : redneck tookover hell

copies of ilmas letter to the ftc will be available on the associations website at http//www.ilma.org nothing but much whining other auto makers have used manufacturer only fluids in their vehicles or have made a system such that if you use something other than their fluid the system does not work correctly. late model gm power steering is a good example. you use fluid other than genuine gm and see what happens to the power steering. ill start watching reality tv shows when i can vote people off the planet. .

From : cbhvac

copies of ilmas letter to the ftc will be available on the associations website at http//www.ilma.org nothing but much whining other auto makers have used manufacturer only fluids in their vehicles or have made a system such that if you use something other than their fluid the system does not work correctly. late model gm power steering is a good example. you use fluid other than genuine gm and see what happens to the power steering. honda...another example...honda power steering fluid is only honda power steering fluid. use of another product will really screw the seals up and there isnt a damn thing you can do about it but use the factory stuff.. ill start watching reality tv shows when i can vote people off the planet. .

From : tbone

but are both honda and gm restricting the chemistry of these fluids or is the demand so light for such specific fluids that the aftermarket just sees no profit in manufacturing and marketing them -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving cbhvac stephenaddressscfrewedonpurpose@carolinabreezehvac.com wrote in copies of ilmas letter to the ftc will be available on the associations website at http//www.ilma.org nothing but much whining other auto makers have used manufacturer only fluids in their vehicles or have made a system such that if you use something other than their fluid the system does not work correctly. late model gm power steering is a good example. you use fluid other than genuine gm and see what happens to the power steering. honda...another example...honda power steering fluid is only honda power steering fluid. use of another product will really screw the seals up and there isnt a damn thing you can do about it but use the factory stuff.. ill start watching reality tv shows when i can vote people off the planet. .