500 ppm diesel still readily available......

From : greekphilosophizer

Q: lets expand on your post for a minute. im not knocking you its just a good place to make a point. i doubt any shop is buying parts on the internet. when i was doing this for a living we bought things from retail outlets mostly napa motor parts remember when it was motor parts anyway we got jobber prices for the sake of argument lets say your $15.00 is retail and $10.00 is jobber cost. in the early to mid seventies our the one shop where i knew what it was its probably more now markup was 182%. so now were at $18.20 retail for the hose alone. now lets consider labor. i know im on thin ice with the magnum engine but did the job the original poster have done require the a/c compressor and bracket be removed if not i think those need to be removed to get to the intake end of the hose see these--- those are question marks means im asking a question and assuming to be true until shown otherwise how much labor is that .3 .4 .5 hours at what labor rate $80 $100/ hr so now maybe were talking around an extra $75 for the hose that might have looked okay since my other post in this thread i had another thought. its also possible the shop didnt do the original job correctly and are trying to cover their ass as it were with a red herring. we may never know the entire story here. i did a quick search online and found them ranging in price from $14.99 to $4.59. given the hourly rate for an automotive technician to get that far into this repair the difference between $2 and $15 at the high end is insignificant and not replacing it makes me suspect the technician in question. before the repair was even started he should have said lets replace all your belts and hoses because it will cost you less now than later and she could have made up her own mind. i dont think toms statement is the least suspect. on thu 25 jan 2007 031734 gmt tom lawrence tnloaswpraemnmcien5g@earthlink.net wrote bullshit. no mechanic in his right mind would replace a water pump and re-use a $2 hose. does a by-pass hose really cost $2.00 or is that hyperbole there-by making the rest of your statement suspect bb .

Replies:

From : josh

technically toms 35% off. egad hes slipping. stay away from the light tom! i havent gone for the k&n hype. what is this cost reasoning of which you speak well geez 70 cents is almost a dollar which would make the hose price nearly 50% more than stated! can anyone trust someone nearly 50% off in what they say this is known as the k&n line of cost reasoning and we all know how that goes! just my 70 cents. smh .

From : ed h

budd cochran wrote you tend to want all to conform to your beliefs. jesus said there was but one way to heaven by his sacrifice on the cross. yes he said so not you. yet you want everyone to believe your way. some people would rather believe his way which may or may not be the same as your views. you will never get all christians to believe your way just as you will always refuse to follow others with differing views. that because we are all individuals who view things from their own eyes. being different does not mean you need to isolate yourself from others. youve never heard of hermits yes but i dont think one needs to be a hermit to be a christian. isolation is not a good thing for most. you wouldnt be here if that were the case! i can be around sin and sinful people i am not to join in or take sinful pleasure from it. the bible does not make a complete list of every single activity that may or may not be a sin. it is man who has decided what is or isnt and people do not always agree. for instance many people feel christian rock music is a sin others dont. because the bible says he is thats good enough for me. you have to decide for yourself. why does the bible supercede any other writings the egyptians described their gods 1000s of years prior. for the people of that time they believed just as strongly as you do for much the same reason. some of those other gods existed for far longer. impossible. not so. we are living closer to jesus time than the ancient egyptians by several 1000 years. name a civilization that existed during the time of the ancient egyptians that were of christian faith that were larger in population in otherwords what was the predominant religion of the time in the world .

From : geekboy

because he thought it should have been replaced your comment below would focus on whether or not you think the mechanic ripped you off by replacing a perfectly good hose with a new one! bullshit. no mechanic in his right mind would replace a water pump and re-use a $2 hose. to do so is complete incompetence given the cost of the replacement hose vs. the amount of labor required to get to it. i wonder how much damage to the hose was caused by the mechanic twisting and pulling on the hose to get it off personally i think she is getting hosed! if i had to remove one end on the suspect hose to replace the pump it would have been replaced. certainly without question for a $2 hose. when ever i have had a failure with the coolant system of any of my vehicles i have replaced all the hoses unless i had replaced them fairly recently. i would not expect a shop to go to that extreme but i find it cheap insurance in the long run. greg .

From : bill putney

on 25 jan 2007 070037 -0800 greekphilosophizer greekphilosophizer@hotmail.com wrote checking out the local gas station as i was filling up since i may get a diesel soon and they still sell 500 ppm sulpher diesel. what is the point of mandating 80% of diesel production be ultra low sulpher when nobody has to sell it what part of 80% dont you get if it is required that 80% of diesel sold be the new stuff then 20% can be the dirtier stuff you found the 20% .

From : tiger

i would tell then that if they do make it right with you considerable discount that you will never deal with them again and make it well known to your friends of their second rate work. word of mouth advertising works both ways. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving i really appreciate the information from all of you who replied. i got a call from the mechanic this morning. they say that the hose could have gone at anytime and i am responsible for parts $6.50 for the kit and labor $74.50 an hour. i do understand that the need for a hose being replaced is objective view of the mechanic but considering i just shelled out $3000 last wednesday for all the other repairs i guess i am just little pissy about paying them anymore money. especially considering they placed new parts on either side of an old hose. i am by no means very mechanically inclined but even i know that old hoses dont hold up to new parts very well. so thanks again for your help. .

From : steve

despite an orchestrated campaign of attempted censorship by uk-resident group readers tfn did not bow to demands for a suppression of freedom of speech. tfn general policy on the matter is as follows; draft policy on account deactivations due to group postings ================================================================ group postings occasionally take the form of a message which goes against the topic of the conference. for example a derogatory message about canadians in the soc.culture.canada. members of such groups then may send a message to the system administrators asking that a users account be terminated because of such posting. the toronto free-net board of directors has taken the position that the only postings that will get a persons account terminated is material that is illegal under canadian law. otherwise the toronto free-net will not take any action. freenet executive director mike anderson had this to say regarding the continued attempts of a minority of usenet participants to have my account on his system deactivated; the tfns policy is not to take action against members unless they contravene the criminal code of canada or engage in practices such as forgery attacks against other computer systems or mailbombing. mr. corley while possibly being very annoying has not contravened the tfns policies. the tfn believes strongly in freedom of expression while recognizing that the price for such freedom may be a high signal-to-noise ratio in usenet. if mr. corley breaks the law we will take action -- until then he has the same rights as any tfn member to post to usenet groups. actions such as mailbombing the tfn in protest will be met by strong complaints to the originating sites postmaster. the best defense against unwanted postings may be simply be to ignore them and deny the poster an audience. tfn executive director toronto ont canada personally i find it gratifying that my contributions to usenet discussion are recognized as being conducive to a high signal-to-noise ratio by their quality and thoughtfulness. 209 -- posted via a free usenet account from http//www.tera.com .

From : geekboy

california pumps carry no label because the fuel is mandated statewide - no choice so no need for a label on the #2 pump. specific epa labeling exemption for california fuel retailers. -- 2006 t.g.lambach. publication in any form requires prior written permission. .

From : t g lambach t g lambach at nohamorspamcomcast net

i believe the bible to be the inspired inerrant word of god. i do not believe any other book meets these requirements. i believe that god exists eternally as a three-in-one triune god with all the required attributes of a true living god and was never a mortal nor ever had a beginning or will have and end.. this is possible because he is god. i believe that god created all that is the universe and its physical laws all living things and it waws all perfect until man fell from grace by his own freewill choice. i believe evolution is not proven at all or in any respect. i believe that jesus the second being of the tinity was born of a virgin miraculously concieved by the power of god lived as a carpenter for 30 years and taught for three years. he is wholly god and wholly man. he died on the cross as the sacrificial lamb given by god as the atonement sacrifice jewish law for sin once and for all and with no requirements to receive that grace except to repent of your sin and believe. he rose bodily on the third day jewish reckoning to bring believers eternal life. i believe jesus as the messiah died for me for my sins past present and future and that i am now a child of god a believer called by him to a life or worship faith and teaching. i am not to hide my beliefs for any reason or person. i am called to be separate from non-believers or those fallen away from god and i am chosen by god to follow him and to live for him as i understand i am to do through prayer and study. my commitment is to be complete with no reservation. does this help not really. i assume almost all of that to be the beliefs of christians. i dont recall my church teaching christians to separate themselves from non-believers but maybe i just wasnt paying attention that day. remember the verse that says to not be conformed to this world romans 122 it means we are not to be like everyone else in the world but to be obviously different. do you believe its possible that the god of another religion might be the same god that you believe in in other words your god and their god is the same entity but the followers of each religion have different beliefs about him. the gods of most other religions of the world are not the god of abraham but rather man-made dieties with all the foibles of man like zeus having lust for human women or thors drunkeness and demanding sacrifices subjigation etc. to pacify them in a hope of an afterlife. jhvh otoh just wants our sins to be forgiven and for us to live better lives. only one god ever died to help man become a better being jesus. only one rose from the dead recorded in historical records to bring you a hope for a better life after your own physical death jesus. is that different enough bg i never completely understood the free will choice thing. well its like deciding between any two or more things. freewill allows us to be the final authority as to where we spend eternity in either heaven or hell. for example before i found christ i wanted to spend all my time doing things that could easily have got me shot or in jail. id been thru a very nasty divorce with attempts made on my life and i was ticked at the world. i figured i had nothing to lose nothing to live for. now i just want help others and be a good citizen husband and father. and its all because i chose to be a follower of christ instead of continuing to follow the world and satan. it turned me around 180 degrees. ------ god created all that is the universe and its physical laws all living things and it was all perfect until man fell from grace by his own freewill choice. ------ how could a perfect man make the wrong freewill choice have you ever been sold a used car that did not live up to claims if a man could convince you that the car was good how much easier could an angel satan is the fallen angel lucifer convince a newborn woman she was only days old according to some theologians of something read the passage as if satan is a used car salesman trying to convince you that the fruit is exactly what eve needs and that god held back something instead of giving full disclosure. if he was perfect he would have had perfect judgement. if he didnt have perfect judgement was that a flaw in gods design if it wasnt a design error why did god intentionally create man knowing he would fail that always confused me. the flaw came about not because of gods mistake but because an angel satan again decided he would make himself a god to adam and eve and he lied to convince eve to eat the fruit. then eve convinced adam to take a bite. they could have decided to obey god instead of taking the bites but they didnt because they believed satans lies. think back to when you were a kid and one of your friends convinced you to do something that could get you into trouble and did . . sound familiar now just make the scene one where you convinced another

From : bill putney

richard sexton wrote ...less polluting pollutants. thats too technical a term for most people. bill putney to reply by e-mail replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter x .

From : bill putney

ive got a mortar you could borrow. weve got some howitzers here in the high country also. larry behold beware believe now that i ponder this a bit it comes to me that perhaps after a winter full of him telling you how to plow snow you and he will become real close. so far he hasnt given me any type of plow advise. i almost wish he would just so we could add another chapter to the book. was it this group or the chevy group where he was giving tire recommendations for plowing that was some good reading also. actually you are about neighbors arent ya relativly speaking...maybe. hes about a hour/hour and a half south of me. that makes him more of a neighbor that say you or red but hes still well out of rifle range. could be a sequel to brokeback mountain perhaps bent over the snowplow!! one of us would leave a better man just cant decide who..... bg denny gbmfg roy -- posted via a free usenet account from http//www.tera.com .

From : bill putney

on fri 26 jan 2007 192611 -0600 mike simmons mikesim@yhti.net wrote on jan 26 246 pm hone...@radix.net beekeep wrote on thu 25 jan 2007 234700 -0500 tbone tbonenos...@nc.rr.com wrote it is either the speed sensor in the rear axle or the wiring going to it. in most cases it is the sensor.or maybe its just the quality you get when you buy an american made vehicle anymore. they cant even figure out why they are going belly up. how many billion did ford lose the past year beekeep at least 13 billion. but ford leads fullsize truck sales... that said american auto makers seriously need to take notes on the korean and japanese companies. the quality of american cars is such garbage compared to overseas stuff...i dont get it theyve been watching their numbers slip for so long now and have had a good model hyundai toyota honda etc etc to emulate for a while now... the perception is that the quality of american cars is garbage but the reality is quite different im afraid. in the most recent figures ive seen the warranty expense pnvs is virtually the same vis a vis the japs vs american cars. toyota is the acknowledged leader but even they have slipped a couple of percentage points in recent years. in our company we have daimlerchrysler nissan gm mitsubishi kia aston-martin and jaguar and nissan has a higher warranty expense pnvs than any of the others with the exception of jaguar. daimlerchrysler btw is the lowest. contrary to popular belief the domestic manufacturers have made huge strides in quality. mike perception is what sells cars. i just bought a vehicle for my wife. went to a dodge/jeep dealer and bought a nissan quest. i point blank told the salesman that i didnt want a caravan regardless of price. i honestly believe that the japanese have tighter tolerences when it comes to manufacturing aluminum block engines and transmissions. now you may call that perception but i call it experience. she got 190k of trouble free miles from her last quest and i have a 6th transmission in in my dodge truck. my next truck will probably be a toyota. dodge trucks did not winn a single race in the cts last year and toyota dominated. toyota joins the cup series this year and im betting that they will win races this year. that my friend is perception being made. that is bs and you know it! pray tell what does any race car and production car have in common other than the name not a damn thing and yet greg is 100% correct. i guess comparing a race car to a street car to substantiate a point makes sense to you. one has absolutley nothing to do with the other except perhaps finance. that is because you are not looking at the big picture. we are talking about perception here not the vehicles. while it is true that these race trucks have damn little in common with there street versions not everybody makes that distinction. young people who may be buying these vehicles down the road are more likely to go with the winners they see on tv perception of toughness and coolness and right now that happens to be toyota. even i see it as factory commitment and technology and if dodge cannot win a single race that really doesnt say much for dcs commitment or technology. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : bill putney

mike simmons wrote its not what you know that hurts you its what you think you know that aint so is what gets you in trouble. on the 04 dr with cummins eto refer to p/n 52018191ac see your dodge dealer for help on this this part is a catalytic converter.... end of story. in this case the dc documentation could be correct but it doesnt *prove* anything. dc official documentation also refers to the lh car coolant outlet housing as a thermostat housing when the thermostat is not within 2 feet of it. bill putney to reply by e-mail replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter x .

From : bill putney

chris thompson wrote and your reputable source is come on i gave mine. as i said - i have no horse in this race. theres a simple answer to this by answering this question does this thermo reactor have a chemical in it that acts as a true catalyst i.e. some element or compound that enables or facilitates a desired chemical reaction and that returns to its original state after the reaction is complete in it if the answer is yes then this thing can technically be called a catalytic converter even if it doesnt quite fit the mold of a traditional automotve catalytic converter. if it doesnt have a catalyst in it then you cant correctly refer to it as a catalytic converter. i dont know the answer - i just posed the question to settle this. bottom line if it has a chemical that acts as a catalyst as a chemist would define a catalyst used in some process of converting something into something else then it could be called a catalytic converter. if not then it cant correctly be. bill putney to reply by e-mail replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter x .

From : bill putney

steve wrote bill putney wrote hah! let me get this straight we the u.s. have 800 ppm diesel and mexico has diesel that has so much sulfur in it that it is called yellow diesel did i miss something isnt mexico a member of the kyoto treaty isnt it ironic that we catch so much crap for not signing kyoto and yet we are stricter on ourselves than kyoto is on its own members. to quote mel brookes woof!!. no you didnt miss anything. and yet just yesterday i kept hearing people who live in the us and presumably should know the facts calling into a radio show that was discussing global warming talking about how the us just has to start cleaning up the mess weve made. uh... exscuse me!!! who led the world in auto emission controls beginning in the mid 1960s when us cars had pcv and vapor control systems and the rest of the world still had crankcase draft tubes who led in the elimination of leaded fuel and addition of catalytic convertors to reduce nox and co in 1975 while oh-so-responsible european countries had leaded fuel into the nineties!!! who led the way in cutting back and ultimately eliminating the use of cfcs in air conditiners and manufacturing sure as hell not europe asia central america south america or mexcico... hmmm. that leaves wait for it.... the united states! im sick and tired of hearing people bellyache about the us not cleaning up or not signing kyoto when were already cleaner than kyoto requires countries like china and india to be. kyoto is a crock. and its incumbent on the rest of the frickin world to catch up to what the us has done before they start throwing stones. were waiting. sorry. pet peeve of mine. feel better steve bill putney to reply by e-mail replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter x .

From : mike simmons

i dont recall my church teaching christians to separate themselves from non-believers but maybe i just wasnt paying attention that day. remember the verse that says to not be conformed to this world romans 122 it means we are not to be like everyone else in the world but to be obviously different. i read that verse to mean that christians are supposed to resist herd behavior not to separate themselves from non-believers. believe what you want just my point of view. sometimes you have to separate from non-believers just to catch a breath like ive done a few times here in the group. but you are right also that we are not to follow the crowd which can also include those that dont believe the word as it is written that teach a different jesus lds church that deny aspects of christs diety sacrifice resurrection; that teach evolution sin tolerance etc. oh so now because i roy tbone theguy stormin mormon tom l. et all dont believe a god damn word you are spouting off constantly and because we dont follow you or as you do we are non-believers who the fuck are you to tell me that i am a non-believer just because i am not a blinded asshole like you who the fuck are you to judge me you are not a priest a god a religious figure! you are just some flipped out nut case that is trying everything he can to appease some one else. hmmmm... cutting right to the heart of the matter eh larry g i think part of buddism is to piss people off so they will respond and thus present a forum for more foolish bs. just my take. .

From : chris thompson

where the hell did i say or imply that you needed to see a psychiatrist no where nor never did i but now that you mention it!. i have ever intention on going my way because at least my way allows me to see the world for what it is and not as a make believe fairy tale as you see it. larry once friend now . . . . im sorry you feel this way and sorrier that you cannot no will not see the truth. you are in gods hands by your own words and choice. i leave you to him to deal with. tell me one thing if my physicians whom i see regularly see no need for me to go to psychiatrists who the heck are you to think i need one hint no one at all by your decision to no longer be a friend. so as far as im concerned you go your way ill go gods way. budd miles i am sorry i asked him anything trying to get a little understanding on how someone even him can discount everything historical. any normal person would not discount historical data writings and fact but i honestly dont think budd is within full faculty any more. i think it would be best to follow suit of roy t-bone and others to just let him piss in the wind and watch it blow on his leg. budd as a one time friend i am truly sorry to see you and your mind turn into what ever has befallen it. you were never this out there before and there is no way that religion did this to you. something bad has happen to you either medically or personally but i hope at some point you find peace. as for me discussing debating and arguing with you over any subject is done. you are worse then a horse pulling a cart with blinders on only difference is that they cant see other then forward you refuse to see anything other then forward. budd cochran wrote back to that again are you jesus said it im just repeating it. or is that beyond your abilities yep but i know other christians who feel just as strong about their beliefs yet they differ from yours. you cant accept that. they however can. so he gave us a conscience gave us the ten commandments to teach the basics and told us to do what would be right in the eyes of god. 10 items. not a big list! psalm 661 make a joyful noise unto the lord all ye lands. its also the excuse i use when i sing in church. joyful is subjective to ones own perception. whats joyful to one may not be to another. that does not make it a sin. where in the bible does it define joyful noise to mean soft harps playing constantly hey if you want to follow a man-made god so be it. if you want to follow the god of abraham so be it. its your choice. how do you know one writing is man-made yet another is not its your belief and choice. during the times of the egyptian gods the bible did not exist. their writings were all that was. there was no other teachers of any other religion for 1000s of years. why not so you load a question to cause trouble miles cause trouble by asking a question for which you cant answer and thus dismiss -- posted via a free usenet account from http//www.tera.com .

From : mike simmons

on thu 25 jan 2007 234700 -0500 tbone tbonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote it is either the speed sensor in the rear axle or the wiring going to it. in most cases it is the sensor. or maybe its just the quality you get when you buy an american made vehicle anymore. they cant even figure out why they are going belly up. how many billion did ford lose the past year unfortunately most of that can be attributed to short term american business thinking. make that extra dollar today and screw tomorrow. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : chris thompson

snoman its not what you know that hurts you its what you think you know that aint so is what gets you in trouble. on the 04 dr with cummins eto refer to p/n 52018191ac see your dodge dealer for help on this this part is a catalytic converter.... end of story. mike now mike! you know that part number cant exist! snoman says theres no catalyst on a diesel. *big grin* it sure does exist!! its right there in the parts book... next to the v-10 knock sensors. ;^ mike -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs. .

From : mike simmons

on fri 26 jan 2007 182536 -0700 budd cochran mr-d150@preciscom.net wrote larry once friend now . . . . im sorry you feel this way and sorrier that you cannot no will not see the truth. you are in gods hands by your own words and choice. i leave you to him to deal with. tell me one thing if my physicians whom i see regularly see no need for me to go to psychiatrists who the heck are you to think i need one hint no one at all by your decision to no longer be a friend. so as far as im concerned you go your way ill go gods way. thatd be good. itd be an improvement. budd miles i am sorry i asked him anything trying to get a little understanding on how someone even him can discount everything historical. any normal person would not discount historical data writings and fact but i honestly dont think budd is within full faculty any more. i think it would be best to follow suit of roy t-bone and others to just let him piss in the wind and watch it blow on his leg. budd as a one time friend i am truly sorry to see you and your mind turn into what ever has befallen it. you were never this out there before and there is no way that religion did this to you. something bad has happen to you either medically or personally but i hope at some point you find peace. as for me discussing debating and arguing with you over any subject is done. you are worse then a horse pulling a cart with blinders on only difference is that they cant see other then forward you refuse to see anything other then forward. budd cochran wrote back to that again are you jesus said it im just repeating it. or is that beyond your abilities yep but i know other christians who feel just as strong about their beliefs yet they differ from yours. you cant accept that. they however can. so he gave us a conscience gave us the ten commandments to teach the basics and told us to do what would be right in the eyes of god. 10 items. not a big list! psalm 661 make a joyful noise unto the lord all ye lands. its also the excuse i use when i sing in church. joyful is subjective to ones own perception. whats joyful to one may not be to another. that does not make it a sin. where in the bible does it define joyful noise to mean soft harps playing constantly hey if you want to follow a man-made god so be it. if you want to follow the god of abraham so be it. its your choice. how do you know one writing is man-made yet another is not its your belief and choice. during the times of the egyptian gods the bible did not exist. their writings were all that was. there was no other teachers of any other religion for 1000s of years. why not so you load a question to cause trouble miles cause trouble by asking a question for which you cant answer and thus dismiss .

From : steve

on fri 2 feb 2007 102934 -0500 tbone tbonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote on thu 1 feb 2007 201925 -0500 tbone tbonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote did you do some studying on those electrical circuits and ohms laws yet yep. you i dont have to as i already am proficient there. did you learn that increasing resistance does not increase current flow hey he cant see it and the bible doesnt mention it so electricity doesnt exist. be careful or you too will get the accusation of bringing religious content into the thread. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving naw he knows better than to mess with me. beekeep .

From : tbone

i did glance through some back posts. before i noticed your oh nevermind. my sense is that youre a pleasant and sincere fellow. but that youre not lds. yes i believe that the lds church is the only one which has revelation from god through a prophet. and revelation to the members as needed for their personal lives and people in their stewardship. some non-lds folks may get a whisper of revelation now and again. i do have great respect for other christians who teach of christ and try to follow his example. christ did rebuke folks now and again. but his ministry was one of teaching. teach and invite others to follow. -- christopher a. young you cant shout down a troll. you have to starve them. .. nawww no need. i just was wondering your take on my views. obviously i didnt make that big of an impression of course i dont ramble on and on about them either. i posted a few comments to budd and the others about fruitless arguments and the such. mostly citing scripture along with them. i can respect you as a fellow christian although i am not a mormon and do not agree with all the views of the mormon church. the same with several other variants of christianity. personally as long as the main point is met accepting christ as your savior i can respect individual beliefs without conflict to my own. and there are parts in the bible that it talks about that but i cant remember exact book chapter verse at the moment. my curiosity was more along the lines that your statement as i read it was that the mormon church was the only one with a straight-line to god. if i miss read/interpreted your intent i apologize its just the way it read to me. -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs. .

From : steve

same thing happened to my wife at walmart on thanksgiving week stole her purse from her shopping cart. we ended-up going to our local dealer for new keys and fobs. $195 for fob and key for my 2004 dakota and chipped key and fob for her 2004 sebring limited so good luck !!! rog thanks for the tip i found one under 15 bucks for the dakota now if i could be as lucky for the crossfire. tom ebay steve my wife had her purse stolen while we were on vacation she had the spare set of keys for my 2003 dakota and her 2005 chrysler crossfire. i know we will probably have to go to the dealer for the crossfire fob but does anyone know where i might find a cheap one for my dakota. tia tom r. .

From : steve

richard sexton wrote chris thompson kf4drr-nospam@alltel.net wrote on fri 26 jan 2007 095703 -0500 chris thompson kf4drr-nospam@alltel.net wrote then why does the engineers that write the fsm call it a cat come on man! because it is a accepted term. a cat has rare elements in it the reacts with hot gas to convert the emissions passing thru it. cat is an abbreviation for catalytic converter. palladiam covered ceramic beads its spelled palladium and the main ingredient in oxidation catcons is platinum anyway. and they havent used beads in catalysts since 1980. act as a catylist to convert pollutants to uh less polluting pollutants. reduction cats convert nitrogen oxides to nitrogen n2 and free oxygen o2. oxidation catcons convert carbon monoxide and un-burned hydrocarbons to carbon dioxide and water. oxidation catcons need free oxygen to work and thats what air injection pumps are for. but with better fuel management systems like we have today the free oxygen released by the reduction section of the cat is usually enough to fuel the oxidation section of the cat. kinda neat that. .

From : steve

make sure its really the tubes and not a failing ballast. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving bill putney wrote steve wrote bill putney wrote hah! let me get this straight we the u.s. have 800 ppm diesel and mexico has diesel that has so much sulfur in it that it is called yellow diesel did i miss something isnt mexico a member of the kyoto treaty isnt it ironic that we catch so much crap for not signing kyoto and yet we are stricter on ourselves than kyoto is on its own members. to quote mel brookes woof!!. no you didnt miss anything. and yet just yesterday i kept hearing people who live in the us and presumably should know the facts calling into a radio show that was discussing global warming talking about how the us just has to start cleaning up the mess weve made. uh... exscuse me!!! who led the world in auto emission controls beginning in the mid 1960s when us cars had pcv and vapor control systems and the rest of the world still had crankcase draft tubes who led in the elimination of leaded fuel and addition of catalytic convertors to reduce nox and co in 1975 while oh-so-responsible european countries had leaded fuel into the nineties!!! who led the way in cutting back and ultimately eliminating the use of cfcs in air conditiners and manufacturing sure as hell not europe asia central america south america or mexcico... hmmm. that leaves wait for it.... the united states! im sick and tired of hearing people bellyache about the us not cleaning up or not signing kyoto when were already cleaner than kyoto requires countries like china and india to be. kyoto is a crock. and its incumbent on the rest of the frickin world to catch up to what the us has done before they start throwing stones. were waiting. sorry. pet peeve of mine. feel better steve yeah now im peeved about cheap made in china fluorescent tubes that only last 2 months -p .

From : chris thompson

atcgirly wrote junk yard is sounding good!! lol if you do decide to get rid of it i hope you dont for this problem find out what the auto recycler will give you for it then give us first shot at it. id bet someone here would buy it from you for more than what a junk yard would pay you. if the dash isnt cracked id buy that from you. ;^ anybody know why there are three res in the subject line is it a glitch in forte free agent or is it operator error reply reply reply ken .

From : roy

.. reference hahahah. try google. you seem to miss the point of my asking him for a reliable ref. hes claiming that diesels dont use catalytic converters instead use some sort of thermal reactor that isnt a catalyst my argument is that they do use them and even the manufactures call them such. if i am so wrong in this as snoman states that i am then he should have no problem providing me with documentation contrary to what i have said. follow back in my thread i have suggested to him to do that very google search you suggest i do. i have already done it. thus the links that and clips i have previously posted. this is a discussion me and him have had before and i continue only as a warning to anyone who may listen to his missinformation about diesel emissions that he is flawed in his information. he will claim that the cummins engine is about to have a bunch of stuff added to it to make it pass emissions for 2010 but cummins sates that the 6.7 already passes the 2010 requirements as it sits 3 years early. i suggest that you read closely into what hes posting and then do the very research i have been suggesting that he should do to verify or debunk my information. if i am mistaken in any point i have made then i will gladly admit to my error. but i do not believe on this point that i have made one. so once again its on snoman if im wrong provide the online documentation so that i may examine it myself. please reputable sources -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs .

From : geekboy

i got a friend who has a 1969 camero ss. his father got it new in califorina shortly returning from vietnam. it originally had a smog pump and cat on them. not! homework assignment for you find out what year the camaro first got a catalytic converter. ill give you a hint. it starts with 19 and ends with 75. buwhahahaha! was seeing if anyone was paying attention and knew their stuff ;- you just showed that you dont. g .

From : geekboy

i got a friend who has a 1969 camero ss. his father got it new in califorina shortly returning from vietnam. it originally had a smog pump and cat on them. not! homework assignment for you find out what year the camaro first got a catalytic converter. ill give you a hint. it starts with 19 and ends with 75. -- ken .

From : geekboy

you guys seem to know a lot more about this stuff than i ever will. would it be better for me to take it to the dealor or my garage guy your guidance is greatly appreciated! i hate to take it somewhere just to get taken to the cleaners because i am a woman tom lawrence wrote or trade it. i know this sounds cruel but dodges can be a pill about thess kinds of problems sometimes. you are such a moron.... trade away a truck because a $30 sensor went bad that takes 5 minutes to change. -- posted at authors request using http//www.autoboardz.com interface articles individually verified to usenet standards. visit url to contact author/report abuse thread archive http//www.autoboardz.com/1999-1500-lots-problems-ftopict204552.html .

From : richard sexton

i got a friend who has a 1969 camero ss. his father got it new in califorina shortly returning from vietnam. it originally had a smog pump and cat on them. not! homework assignment for you find out what year the camaro first got a catalytic converter. ill give you a hint. it starts with 19 and ends with 75. buwhahahaha! was seeing if anyone was paying attention and knew their stuff ;- -- ken .

From : bigironram

chris thompson kf4drr-nospam@alltel.net wrote on fri 26 jan 2007 095703 -0500 chris thompson kf4drr-nospam@alltel.net wrote then why does the engineers that write the fsm call it a cat come on man! because it is a accepted term. a cat has rare elements in it the reacts with hot gas to convert the emissions passing thru it. cat is an abbreviation for catalytic converter. palladiam covered ceramic beads act as a catylist to convert pollutants to uh less polluting pollutants. reference hahahah. try google. -- need mercedes parts http//parts.mbz.org richard sexton | mercedes stuff http//mbz.org 1970 280se 72 280se | home pages http//rs79.vrx.net 633csi 250se/c 300sd | http//aquaria.net http//killi.net .

From : snoman

bill putney wrote hah! let me get this straight we the u.s. have 800 ppm diesel and mexico has diesel that has so much sulfur in it that it is called yellow diesel did i miss something isnt mexico a member of the kyoto treaty isnt it ironic that we catch so much crap for not signing kyoto and yet we are stricter on ourselves than kyoto is on its own members. to quote mel brookes woof!!. no you didnt miss anything. and yet just yesterday i kept hearing people who live in the us and presumably should know the facts calling into a radio show that was discussing global warming talking about how the us just has to start cleaning up the mess weve made. uh... exscuse me!!! who led the world in auto emission controls beginning in the mid 1960s when us cars had pcv and vapor control systems and the rest of the world still had crankcase draft tubes who led in the elimination of leaded fuel and addition of catalytic convertors to reduce nox and co in 1975 while oh-so-responsible european countries had leaded fuel into the nineties!!! who led the way in cutting back and ultimately eliminating the use of cfcs in air conditiners and manufacturing sure as hell not europe asia central america south america or mexcico... hmmm. that leaves wait for it.... the united states! im sick and tired of hearing people bellyache about the us not cleaning up or not signing kyoto when were already cleaner than kyoto requires countries like china and india to be. kyoto is a crock. and its incumbent on the rest of the frickin world to catch up to what the us has done before they start throwing stones. were waiting. sorry. pet peeve of mine. .

From : geekboy

geekboy wrote beleive me you filled up with ulsd. mandates require it be in all retail locations october 15 2006. in california by sept 1 2006. only place you still buy 500 ppm is outside california is for offroad marine and locomotive uses until june 1. unless you go to mexico where you can still buy yellow diesel. yellow because it has so much sulphur in it hah! let me get this straight we the u.s. have 800 ppm diesel and mexico has diesel that has so much sulfur in it that it is called yellow diesel no the us has 5 ppm diesel. the us used to sell high sulphur diesel until i think till the 80s that is why the pump handles were yellow but now green. notice the fuel containers are still yellow. did i miss something isnt mexico a member of the kyoto treaty isnt it ironic that we catch so much crap for not signing kyoto and yet we are stricter on ourselves than kyoto is on its own members. to quote mel brookes woof!!. just because they may be a member does not mean it takes effect imediatly or that the treaty called for reduction of sulphur in diesel. have you read the treaty its actually was .05% sulphur content. not all areas have the high sulplur diesel. problem is its high sulfur content is unkind to turbochargers and electronic metered fuel circuits. they sell 500 ppm disel in most of mexico now. pemex is suppose to start making 5 ppm diesel later this year. bill putney to reply by e-mail replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter x .

From : roy

i paid the price to get my truck back. the only thing i didnt pay for was the towing fee $181 for a whole 12 miles. i dindt deal with them anymore after the service manager became exceedingly condescending to me over the phone. i let my husband deal with the ass. as i said before i am not mechanincally inclined but i do have basic working knowledge. at least this guy didnt try to get me to pay for blinker fluid like the guy from the lube place did. name and location please. would be nice to let other know of it so they dont become potential victims. .

From : steve

bill putney wrote hah! let me get this straight we the u.s. have 800 ppm diesel and mexico has diesel that has so much sulfur in it that it is called yellow diesel did i miss something isnt mexico a member of the kyoto treaty isnt it ironic that we catch so much crap for not signing kyoto and yet we are stricter on ourselves than kyoto is on its own members. to quote mel brookes woof!!. no you didnt miss anything. and yet just yesterday i kept hearing people who live in the us and presumably should know the facts calling into a radio show that was discussing global warming talking about how the us just has to start cleaning up the mess weve made. uh... exscuse me!!! who led the world in auto emission controls beginning in the mid 1960s when us cars had pcv and vapor control systems and the rest of the world still had crankcase draft tubes i got a friend who has a 1969 camero ss. his father got it new in califorina shortly returning from vietnam. it originally had a smog pump and cat on them. who led in the elimination of leaded fuel and addition of catalytic convertors to reduce nox and co in 1975 while oh-so-responsible european countries had leaded fuel into the nineties!!! who led the way in cutting back and ultimately eliminating the use of cfcs in air conditiners and manufacturing sure as hell not europe asia central america south america or mexcico... hmmm. that leaves wait for it.... the united states! im sick and tired of hearing people bellyache about the us not cleaning up or not signing kyoto when were already cleaner than kyoto requires countries like china and india to be. kyoto is a crock. and its incumbent on the rest of the frickin world to catch up to what the us has done before they start throwing stones. were waiting. sorry. pet peeve of mine. .

From : tom lawrence

under the circumstances they should make a good will arrangement with her. if you cant get free labor a huge honkin discount should be made but thats just me. penny wise pound foolish seems to rule business anymore. i would tell then that if they do make it right with you considerable discount that you will never deal with them again and make it well known to your friends of their second rate work. word of mouth advertising works both ways. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving i really appreciate the information from all of you who replied. i got a call from the mechanic this morning. they say that the hose could have gone at anytime and i am responsible for parts $6.50 for the kit and labor $74.50 an hour. i do understand that the need for a hose being replaced is objective view of the mechanic but considering i just shelled out $3000 last wednesday for all the other repairs i guess i am just little pissy about paying them anymore money. especially considering they placed new parts on either side of an old hose. i am by no means very mechanically inclined but even i know that old hoses dont hold up to new parts very well. so thanks again for your help. .

From : nosey

i got a friend who has a 1969 camero ss. his father got it new in califorina shortly returning from vietnam. it originally had a smog pump and cat on them. not! homework assignment for you find out what year the camaro first got a catalytic converter. ill give you a hint. it starts with 19 and ends with 75. -- ken youre right kalifornia might have gotten egr a year earlier than the rest of us but unleaded gas needed for converters didnt hit until 1975. we had low and some no lead but not much. .

From : chris thompson

bill putney wrote hah! let me get this straight we the u.s. have 800 ppm diesel and mexico has diesel that has so much sulfur in it that it is called yellow diesel did i miss something isnt mexico a member of the kyoto treaty isnt it ironic that we catch so much crap for not signing kyoto and yet we are stricter on ourselves than kyoto is on its own members. to quote mel brookes woof!!. no you didnt miss anything. and yet just yesterday i kept hearing people who live in the us and presumably should know the facts calling into a radio show that was discussing global warming talking about how the us just has to start cleaning up the mess weve made. uh... exscuse me!!! who led the world in auto emission controls beginning in the mid 1960s when us cars had pcv and vapor control systems and the rest of the world still had crankcase draft tubes i got a friend who has a 1969 camero ss. his father got it new in califorina shortly returning from vietnam. it originally had a smog pump and cat on them. a pump maybe but a cat in 1969. where was it mounted who led in the elimination of leaded fuel and addition of catalytic convertors to reduce nox and co in 1975 while oh-so-responsible european countries had leaded fuel into the nineties!!! who led the way in cutting back and ultimately eliminating the use of cfcs in air conditiners and manufacturing sure as hell not europe asia central america south america or mexcico... hmmm. that leaves wait for it.... the united states! im sick and tired of hearing people bellyache about the us not cleaning up or not signing kyoto when were already cleaner than kyoto requires countries like china and india to be. kyoto is a crock. and its incumbent on the rest of the frickin world to catch up to what the us has done before they start throwing stones. were waiting. sorry. pet peeve of mine. .

From : roy

on fri 26 jan 2007 062136 -0500 denny wddodge@woh.rr.com wrote youre such a moron. i really hope people are smart enough to not listen to you... you do mean not listen to you and your lack of maturity right dodges are know for these kinda of problems and unless you have your head in the sand you would know about it. this is not about picking on a dodge because i point out quirks with gms and fords too. like gm is well known for piston slap issues on modular engines especail some 5.3s and intale manifold gasket issues on vortec small block engines desingn flaw and ford using wrong style plugs and torque on 5.4s and 6.8s with aluminum heads that can loosen up and strip and blow out from rattling around and flame cutting. best way to deal with it is to avoid trouble prone vehicle and model regardless of who makes then rather than pouring more money into them. ----------------- thesnoman.com .

From : chris thompson

on fri 26 jan 2007 095703 -0500 chris thompson kf4drr-nospam@alltel.net wrote then why does the engineers that write the fsm call it a cat come on man! because it is a accepted term. a cat has rare elements in it the reacts with hot gas to convert the emissions passing thru it. these same elements are destroyed quickly by high sulpher in fuel. a thermo reactor helps burn and lower the suspended particulates that diesels are famous for and are aways present. why do you think the epa ordered sulpher out it was so they could start putting true cats on oil burners and fully address the very high nox and true grams per mile emissons that they produce. one diesel makes as much nox as about 5 to 10 cars in grams per mile the reason diesels appear clean is because they have a high volume of air flowing thru them which dilutes emissions and makes ppm low when actually grams per mile is high. gas engines have a much lower air flow thru them and at same ppm emit far less grams per mile than a diesel. diesels are finally going to have to comply fully with emission requirements like gas engines have been for over 30 years now. you will see diesel ratings decline in coming years and economy suffer too as regs kick in because allow with exoitic injection systems to limit nox they will also lower cr and boost to reduce nox generation to begin with. thye will either have to get bigger more displacment for same power with less boost or see ratings fade. diesel have had a unfair edge in emissions for many years and loop hole is finially closing and long overdue. ----------------- thesnoman.com .

From : bill putney

budd cochran wrote remember the verse that says to not be conformed to this world romans 122 it means we are not to be like everyone else in the world but to be obviously different. what does that mean to you to be different it means to try my best to stay away from sinful activities movies tv radio next door neighbors wild parties . . . everyone is an individual. yep. you tend to want all to conform to your beliefs. jesus said there was but one way to heaven by his sacrifice on the cross. being different does not mean you need to isolate yourself from others. youve never heard of hermits you wouldnt be here if that were the case! i can be around sin and sinful people i am not to join in or take sinful pleasure from it. the gods of most other religions of the world are not the god of abraham but rather man-made dieties with all the foibles of man how do you know your god is any more valid or invalid than gods of others because the bible says he is thats good enough for me. you have to decide for yourself. some of those other gods existed for far longer. impossible. in the book of the revelations of st john jesus says thru john that he is the alpha and the omega the beginning and the end. jesus told the pharisees before abraham was i am. god is was and will be eternal. budd -- posted via a free usenet account from http//www.tera.com .

From : jdoe

on 25 jan 2007 070037 -0800 greekphilosophizer greekphilosophizer@hotmail.com wrote checking out the local gas station as i was filling up since i may get a diesel soon and they still sell 500 ppm sulpher diesel. what is the point of mandating 80% of diesel production be ultra low sulpher when nobody has to sell it what part of 80% dont you get if it is required that 80% of diesel sold be the new stuff then 20% can be the dirtier stuff you found the 20% that 80% is 100% of retail locations for automobiles .

From : geekboy

azwiley1 wrote nosey wrote your heating up everything that has electrical resistance. if you dim your dashboard lights you may notice that the dimmer switch gets warmer. same phenomenon. ask nosey. read sterns page about relays. no need to ask me anything. i think azwiley1 knows more about electricity than the both of us. doubtful... what ever little do you know about me or my back ground. youre the guy who installs car stereos right have you measured the resistance levels on the silvys lighting circuit he apparently thinks chevy and dodge can each use different versions of ohms law. no i dont think that nor did i imply that. i did ask you though if you heres where you implied it sorry but the light circuitry on our vehicles are vastly different and just because something is one way on yours does not mean the same for me. my own light circuitry is also vastly different than it used to be. so i can still compare the two. and based on your impressive 4-year silver star bulb life i can pretty well guess that your factory chevy wiring is comparable to factory dodge wiring. knew the resistance of the silvy lighting circuit which you did not answer. obviously you dont know. stock for stock how do you know that the resistance in your ram was not equal to greater or less then that of my chevy you dont. so to imply that the resistance of my lighting circuit is as restrictive as you seem to be implying is ludacris. you cant substanciate it. wire gauge wire run lenght relays etc all factor into the resistance level of the circuit but gee you should know that right i should know it i do know it thats why ive been chattering about wire gauge and length and relays and amps heating up light switches. do you know what the resistance levels are on each of the four bulbs i know i dont off the top of my head as i have never had a reason to measure it. it needs to be calculated but he apparently thinks you can get something meaningful by measuring the resistance across a cold bulb. where did i ever state anything about measuring a bulb warm or cold i stated just want you left in place above. so please dont put words where they are not. you stated that you never had a reason to measure it. i have never had a reason to measure it. you cant measure the resistance of operating light bulbs. and theres no need for us to know what it is anyway. my point which you apparently over looked or missed you must be practicing buddism! is that you nor i know the resistance of the lighting circuit on the silvy. which means that to back up your statements concerning bulb life heating of the wires et all. are not substantiated. you are making assumptions not verified statements. my statements concerning bulb life heating of the wires et al arent theories. pointing back to dans website. have you or anyone ever ask how he verified his data not saying it is not correct but was the data complied from manufactures from a test bench from real world applications or from all of the mentioned he distrusts manufacturers hype. looking around sylvanias site i found this http//tinyurl.com/29sukn line no. 1 - standard line no. 2 - cool blue line no. 3 - long life line no. 4 - line no. 5 - silverstar line no. 6 - xtravision surprisingly silverstar is rated 10 hours better than xtravision on high beam. but silverstar is by far the lowest on low beam. neither is particularly long lived though. so based on a 150 hour expected life at 12.8 volts and considering mine burned out in a year and considering you drive a *lot* at night and yours lasted 4 years you really think your bulbs are getting close to their full 12.8 volts i certainly dont. .

From : snoman

budd cochran wrote back to that again are you jesus said it im just repeating it. or is that beyond your abilities yep but i know other christians who feel just as strong about their beliefs yet they differ from yours. you cant accept that. they however can. so he gave us a conscience gave us the ten commandments to teach the basics and told us to do what would be right in the eyes of god. 10 items. not a big list! psalm 661 make a joyful noise unto the lord all ye lands. its also the excuse i use when i sing in church. joyful is subjective to ones own perception. whats joyful to one may not be to another. that does not make it a sin. where in the bible does it define joyful noise to mean soft harps playing constantly hey if you want to follow a man-made god so be it. if you want to follow the god of abraham so be it. its your choice. how do you know one writing is man-made yet another is not its your belief and choice. during the times of the egyptian gods the bible did not exist. their writings were all that was. there was no other teachers of any other religion for 1000s of years. why not so you load a question to cause trouble miles cause trouble by asking a question for which you cant answer and thus dismiss .

From : chris thompson

change the rear wheel speed sensor located on top of the diff in the rear axle. -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs. im ready to take my hubbys truck to the dump!! he is currently deployed and i am left to take care of this truck. the abs light is on the brake light is on and now the speedometer is going crazy!! can any of you guys/gals give me insight on what may be the problem do i need to take it somewhere to have it put on the diagnostic machine should i just take it to the dealer and pay them too much money ugh... -- posted at authors request using http//www.autoboardz.com interface articles individually verified to usenet standards. visit url to contact author/report abuse thread archive http//www.autoboardz.com/1999-1500-lots-problems-ftopict204552.html .

From : snoman

some of those other gods existed for far longer. impossible. in the book of the revelations of st john jesus says thru john that he is the alpha and the omega the beginning and the end. jesus told the pharisees before abraham was i am. god is was and will be eternal. budd this is not meant to stir any arguments but i have to ask how you can say this is impossible. you and i have talked before and at that time you admitted to the fact that there are religions that are considerable older then christianity. now your story changes. not with standing your beliefs simply acknowledging something to be fact as derived from history does not make you a sinner nor does it mean you worship something else it honestly means that you are not so blinded and jaded as to not ever see beyond your nose. buddhism not to be confused with buddism hinduism daoism sp even muslim iirc are historically older then christianity. i said their dieties their gods cannot be older. and being an older religion is not a guarantee of being the correct religion. jhvh according to the bible has been around always with no beginning nor any end. eternal. he makes immortal look like passing thru puberty. my story is of no importance but what the bible says is and thats where i got the information i wrote. it is not my story. many religions claim to offer a heaven of some kind then make you work your butt off to please the diety earn its favor then maybe if you dont burp just as you die you get there according to them. the exceptions are those that claim reincarnation like hinduism. those make you try to come back as something better by earning your way. god the father sent the second person of god jesus to earth in a human body both fully human and fully god to be the sacrificial lamb for all of mankinds sins if they confess them to god and accept the sacrifice god made. thats all there is believe confess and then live as god says you should live and not be lured into sin again by the world. budd -- posted via a free usenet account from http//www.tera.com .

From : richard sexton

im ready to take my hubbys truck to the dump!! he is currently deployed and i am left to take care of this truck. the abs light is on the brake light is on and now the speedometer is going crazy!! can any of you guys/gals give me insight on what may be the problem do i need to take it somewhere to have it put on the diagnostic machine should i just take it to the dealer and pay them too much money ugh... -- posted at authors request using http//www.autoboardz.com interface articles individually verified to usenet standards. visit url to contact author/report abuse thread archive http//www.autoboardz.com/1999-1500-lots-problems-ftopict204552.html .

From : steve

bill putney wrote steve wrote bill putney wrote hah! let me get this straight we the u.s. have 800 ppm diesel and mexico has diesel that has so much sulfur in it that it is called yellow diesel did i miss something isnt mexico a member of the kyoto treaty isnt it ironic that we catch so much crap for not signing kyoto and yet we are stricter on ourselves than kyoto is on its own members. to quote mel brookes woof!!. no you didnt miss anything. and yet just yesterday i kept hearing people who live in the us and presumably should know the facts calling into a radio show that was discussing global warming talking about how the us just has to start cleaning up the mess weve made. uh... exscuse me!!! who led the world in auto emission controls beginning in the mid 1960s when us cars had pcv and vapor control systems and the rest of the world still had crankcase draft tubes who led in the elimination of leaded fuel and addition of catalytic convertors to reduce nox and co in 1975 while oh-so-responsible european countries had leaded fuel into the nineties!!! who led the way in cutting back and ultimately eliminating the use of cfcs in air conditiners and manufacturing sure as hell not europe asia central america south america or mexcico... hmmm. that leaves wait for it.... the united states! im sick and tired of hearing people bellyache about the us not cleaning up or not signing kyoto when were already cleaner than kyoto requires countries like china and india to be. kyoto is a crock. and its incumbent on the rest of the frickin world to catch up to what the us has done before they start throwing stones. were waiting. sorry. pet peeve of mine. feel better steve yeah now im peeved about cheap made in china fluorescent tubes that only last 2 months -p .