$2.299/gal

From : fmb

Q: that was this afternoons price to feed the ho. the lighter ends were going for $2.099 $2.159 $2.259 a gallon. the other 4 stations in the area were the same for the diesel except one was 2 whole pennies cheaper. gee i could have saved almost 65 cents. i love the truck wouldnt trade it. -- fmb only one b in fmb .

Replies:

From : tbone

lol sorry paul but freedom comes with responsibility and that is something that people like you seem to avoid at all costs. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving no other reason people buy what they need. your trouble is that you have defined what need is for yourself as well as everyone else. this is america. people can buy what they want. but some people want to tell us what we can and cannot buy. they dont like freedom. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote people have large suvs because they need something that can fit a family without being crowded can carry plenty of luggage and is very comfortable to drive and often capable of towing a boat or trailer. lol you have probably defined about 5% of the people that own them. what do the rest that own them want them for rofl more speculation by you. prove it. no speculation or guesses just prove it. they buy what solves their needs and not your needs. i dont recall anyone telling you what you should buy. you bought what you wanted. sigh back to the right wing spin again. do you want proof go out on the road during rush hour and see how many of them are out there without a trailer hitch and not a mark on them other than what any other street car has. and you are correct i did buy what i wanted and used it as my daily driver for years along with hauling things but when the price of fuel began to climb i saw the error of my ways and got the nissan. when the nissan gives up i will get another new high mileage car perhaps a convertible. as for power in the next few years i will build a cobra kit car. i have no problem with people buying toys and other fun things but when they use bogus justifications to claim a need for them they are only lying to themselves. all of which can only be defined by the individual and not you. completely incorrect. oh man too funny. you admit that youre the one trying to define what a solution should be for someone elses needs. good grief. nope i simply see the problem and you do too but cant admit to that and then do what you do. a minivan doesnt satisfy that need. why not because it doesnt. lol the answer of a child. iow you know that it can but they are not cool enough for you. now as stated above you are attempting to tell people what they should use to solve their need when they are the only ones that know their own needs not you. lol im doing no such thing. i dont know what everyones needs are but more times than not i see these huge suvs that dont have a mark on them taking people to work and nothing else. they have the right to buy them but when their use of them for no other reason than inflating their ego causes the price of gas to soar we all have to pay the price. i thought that you said that i didnt need it and now you say that it is the prefered method for my needs. talk about spin. no spin. you defined your needs not me nor anyone else nor some dictionary. thats exactly what youre trying to put onto others. iow you cant answer the question and resort to your typical spin duck and run maneuver. the fact is that i now use my truck for its intended purpose and use a more economical vehicle for my daily commute instead of just using the few needs i have for its abilities as a justification to make it my daily driver like so many others seem to do. then you keep forgetting that i dont use it for my primary means of transportation i use it when i need to haul things. what other method do you have i cant define your wants and needs. only you can. but somehow you can define others needs and solutions. there is a big difference between defining someones wants and needs and seeing the cause of the problem. perhaps you should pull your head out of the sand every now and then and look yourself. you did say that there were many other methods for my needs im still waiting to hear them. quit trying to hide behind your right wing spin and stop using bs justifications to mask desires behind actual needs. funny how we all managed to move our families and tow things prior to the suv existing. ya we used full sized trucks for towing and a large station wagon for hauling the family around. not to mention the full sized vans that were popular. yea in the 60s and early 70s. what about post 73 until the large suv craze in the 90s besides large suvs have been around for decades they just werent called suvs. the suburban full sized wagoneer and others have existed since the 70s and prior. thank you for proving my point once again. yes they did exist including the bronco blazer trail duster ram charger and the jimmy and yet they were seldom seen. funny how these famlies got around wihout them before even after the 73 gas crunch which saw the end of the full size car as well. a minivan is more than capable of pulling a small boat around and saying that you need one of these suv monsters for that while it is used as a daily driver otherwise is just a lame justification when called to the carpet. but hey when gas tops $3.00 a gallon this summer they get to pay for the problems that they caused. the only bad side is that the rest of us do as well. i agree but that still doesnt change reality or the real world. the facts remain the same if people feel the need to buy these huge houses and vehicles for

From : paul jensen

lol sorry paul but freedom comes with responsibility and that is something that people like you seem to avoid at all costs lolol!!! sorry bone - if you think government should tell me what i can or cannot buy then you need to try cuba or north korea. sorry buddy - no socialism in america. .

From : tbone

lol sorry paul but freedom comes with responsibility and that is something that people like you seem to avoid at all costs lolol!!! sorry bone - if you think government should tell me what i can or cannot buy then you need to try cuba or north korea. sorry buddy - no socialism in america. huh!!!!!! how did the government get into this actually the government can and does control some of the things that you can and cant buy but that is not the issue here. the issue is that we are responsible for our dependence on foreign oil by our own self centered lifestyles and drilling more wells will do nothing to change that. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote well with the shit job that bush is doing i doubt that anyone will notice. bush raised the gas prices i didnt say that he did but they are much higher than they were and are continuing to rise. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote lol tell that to the masses of well educated unemployed people that are currently unemployed masses unemployment is now lower than the average of your so called great years of the 1990s. oh ya some lefty politician told you things were bad so you believed them rather than factual data that suggests otherwise. .

From : fmb

wow!! where do yall live i just filled up my cummins last nite for $1.529/gal here in mo mike just found an interesting site on pricing. try http//tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp or http//tinyurl.com/3grhq same. this site shows different fuel costs in different regions including west coast. what is interesting is it then specifically mentions california also only state mentioned. of course im in ca and the station is about 30 miles north of its refinery. the weather is nice though. -- fmb only one b in fmb .

From : steve w

add 50 cents in extra taxes if kerry gets in..... around here $2.25 is 87octane $250 for 91. and i saw diesel for $2.35-$2.55 this is why i love my motorcycle! 50mpg! but i cant carry as much stuff as your truck though that was this afternoons price to feed the ho. the lighter ends were going for $2.099 $2.159 $2.259 a gallon. the other 4 stations in the area were the same for the diesel except one was 2 whole pennies cheaper. gee i could have saved almost 65 cents. i love the truck wouldnt trade it. -- fmb only one b in fmb -----= posted via feeds.com uncensored usenet =----- http//www.feeds.com - the #1 group service in the world! -----== over 100000 groups - 19 different servers! =----- .

From : trey

around here $2.25 is 87octane $250 for 91. and i saw diesel for $2.35-$2.55 this is why i love my motorcycle! 50mpg! but i cant carry as much stuff as your truck though that was this afternoons price to feed the ho. the lighter ends were going for $2.099 $2.159 $2.259 a gallon. the other 4 stations in the area were the same for the diesel except one was 2 whole pennies cheaper. gee i could have saved almost 65 cents. i love the truck wouldnt trade it. -- fmb only one b in fmb .

From : mike simmons

wow!! where do yall live i just filled up my cummins last nite for $1.529/gal here in mo mike around here $2.25 is 87octane $250 for 91. and i saw diesel for $2.35-$2.55 this is why i love my motorcycle! 50mpg! but i cant carry as much stuff as your truck though that was this afternoons price to feed the ho. the lighter ends were going for $2.099 $2.159 $2.259 a gallon. the other 4 stations in the area were the same for the diesel except one was 2 whole pennies cheaper. gee i could have saved almost 65 cents. i love the truck wouldnt trade it. -- fmb only one b in fmb .

From : beekeep

on wed 21 apr 2004 053200 gmt trey treydog90spam@hotmail.com wrote around here $2.25 is 87octane $250 for 91. and i saw diesel for $2.35-$2.55 this is why i love my motorcycle! 50mpg! but i cant carry as much stuff as your truck though at $250 a gallon i would hesitate to fill up my sportster. beekeep .

From : milesh

tbone wrote well with the shit job that bush is doing i doubt that anyone will notice. bush raised the gas prices .

From : tbone

well with the shit job that bush is doing i doubt that anyone will notice. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving add 50 cents in extra taxes if kerry gets in..... around here $2.25 is 87octane $250 for 91. and i saw diesel for $2.35-$2.55 this is why i love my motorcycle! 50mpg! but i cant carry as much stuff as your truck though that was this afternoons price to feed the ho. the lighter ends were going for $2.099 $2.159 $2.259 a gallon. the other 4 stations in the area were the same for the diesel except one was 2 whole pennies cheaper. gee i could have saved almost 65 cents. i love the truck wouldnt trade it. -- fmb only one b in fmb -----= posted via feeds.com uncensored usenet =----- http//www.feeds.com - the #1 group service in the world! -----== over 100000 groups - 19 different servers! =----- .

From : carolina watercraft works inc

personally i think for the crap hand he was dealt he isnt doing all that poor of a job. kerry would be nothing more than another clinton...who im sure would have run away from this situation we are in. and my g/f was telling me of a picture of kerry posing with none other than hanoi jane...jane fonda...what a dup that is. 2 losers pictured together. -- ------------------------------------------------------------ laszlo almasi carolina watercraft works inc. raleigh nc 27604 919-212-2555 loballeng@mindspring.com we all have our ghosts...take care of yours my plate is full well with the shit job that bush is doing i doubt that anyone will notice. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving add 50 cents in extra taxes if kerry gets in..... around here $2.25 is 87octane $250 for 91. and i saw diesel for $2.35-$2.55 this is why i love my motorcycle! 50mpg! but i cant carry as much stuff as your truck though that was this afternoons price to feed the ho. the lighter ends were going for $2.099 $2.159 $2.259 a gallon. the other 4 stations in the area were the same for the diesel except one was 2 whole pennies cheaper. gee i could have saved almost 65 cents. i love the truck wouldnt trade it. -- fmb only one b in fmb -----= posted via feeds.com uncensored usenet =----- http//www.feeds.com - the #1 group service in the world! -----== over 100000 groups - 19 different servers! =----- .

From : milesh

carolina watercraft works inc. wrote personally i think for the crap hand he was dealt he isnt doing all that poor of a job. kerry would be nothing more than another clinton...who im sure would have run away from this situation we are in. and my g/f was telling me of a picture of kerry posing with none other than hanoi jane...jane fonda...what a dup that is. 2 losers pictured together. have to watch what picture you refer too. several went around the internet awhile back. one was faked the other was real. .

From : arron ramsey

i am just glad i put that k&n filter in my truck for better mileage....... he he he that was this afternoons price to feed the ho. the lighter ends were going for $2.099 $2.159 $2.259 a gallon. the other 4 stations in the area were the same for the diesel except one was 2 whole pennies cheaper. gee i could have saved almost 65 cents. i love the truck wouldnt trade it. -- fmb only one b in fmb .

From : tbone

carolina watercraft works inc. loballeng@mindspring.com wrote in personally i think for the crap hand he was dealt he isnt doing all that poor of a job. lol tell that to the masses of well educated unemployed people that are currently unemployed while he says the outsourcing of their jobs is a good thing or the famlies of the soldiers that died in iraq for what will soon be evident that they died for nothing kerry would be nothing more than another clinton.. we could only be so lucky. who im sure would have run away from this situation we are in. funny but i dont recall bush returning from his vacation in the days prior to 9/11 when indications that something was possibly going to happen appeared. and my g/f was telling me of a picture of kerry posing with none other than hanoi jane...jane fonda...what a dup that is. 2 losers pictured together. where is the link -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

me too - -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving i am just glad i put that k&n filter in my truck for better mileage....... he he he that was this afternoons price to feed the ho. the lighter ends were going for $2.099 $2.159 $2.259 a gallon. the other 4 stations in the area were the same for the diesel except one was 2 whole pennies cheaper. gee i could have saved almost 65 cents. i love the truck wouldnt trade it. -- fmb only one b in fmb .

From : jerry

tbone wrote lol tell that to the masses of well educated unemployed people that are currently unemployed while he says the outsourcing of their jobs is a good thing or the famlies of the soldiers that died in iraq for what will soon be evident that they died for nothing do you know how many jobs were out sourced in the last 10 years do you even know what out-source really is have you ever heard of in-sourcing your source of evidence for iraq is what do you really need a link for something that was shown on the for two weeks straight as usual you havent a clue what youre yapping about. jerry .

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol tell that to the masses of well educated unemployed people that are currently unemployed while he says the outsourcing of their jobs is a good thing or the famlies of the soldiers that died in iraq for what will soon be evident that they died for nothing do you know how many jobs were out sourced in the last 10 years how about the last three years. do you even know what out-source really is yep do you please explain the benefit of doing this to the average american or even the buisness themselfs in the long term. have you ever heard of in-sourcing with the exception of the automotive industry name some. your source of evidence for iraq is what how about vietnam and korea. hell how about afghanistan and the resurgence of the taliban as soon as we layed off a little hell we didnt even leave yet. how about the violence there now. do you really think that it is magically going to stop every time we put our hand into another countries affairs short of a major war even when asked we have pulled back a bloody stump. how much more evidence do you need do you really need a link for something that was shown on the for two weeks straight are you referring to the few clips of soldiers families immediately after the government heaped a bunch or awards and medals on come back to them in a few years and ask again. i bet that you will hear a verry different responce from many of them. and the way our government seems to be heaping medals on people for nothing more than being there and getting shot truly diminishes their value. as usual you havent a clue what youre yapping about. and as usual you have the all to common conservative trait of having eyes wide shut and seeing only what you are told to. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol tell that to the masses of well educated unemployed people that are currently unemployed masses unemployment is now lower than the average of your so called great years of the 1990s. oh ya some lefty politician told you things were bad so you believed them rather than factual data that suggests otherwise. you really like to keep your head buried way into the sand dont you. please provide a link that shows a recovery of all of the jobs that are lost moron. that factual data that you are looking at only reflects the number of people currently on unemployment and when it runs out they disappear from those figures. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote you really like to keep your head buried way into the sand dont you. please provide a link that shows a recovery of all of the jobs that are lost moron. that factual data that you are looking at only reflects the number of people currently on unemployment and when it runs out they disappear from those figures. omg no wonder so many lefties such as yourself believe this crap!! unemployment figures are only one economic indicator. youre forgetting the stats for new job creation and how it is figured. that stat also shows the total number of people in the workforce. you ignore total workforce numbers because they go against your belief that unemployment is mega high. that ol lefty line about people falling off the unemployment list because it ran out is flat out lefty propaganda for those that have no clue what the stats truly mean. now go look up the numbers for total people in the workforce and then tell me how bad unemployment is. good grief. .

From : slick willy

snip so maybe you could direct me to this faked mystery picture and maybe a article where it was claimed the two posed together. snip heres the pic in question ... http//www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry.asp -- regards slick willy 73 cb 450 95 xj 600 03 flstf mtfbwy ... always !!! remove the bendover to reply .

From : miles

tbone wrote when we experience another terrorist attack here we will need them more than soldiers dying for nothing. there is no way to win a was against terror and if you believe so you really are an ignorant person. ah so we just cave in hire more firefighters and sit back and wait till theyre needed. good plan. thats the dems platform strategy .

From : paul jensen

steve w. wrote add 50 cents in extra taxes if kerry gets in..... lol... we would already be paying that if scary kerry had had his way. .

From : tbone

dude you are wasting your time here. many here are so right wing that bush is god and can do nothing wrong or if they are forced to see any error at all quickly run to the monica issue lol. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving paul jensen wrote steve w. wrote add 50 cents in extra taxes if kerry gets in..... lol... we would already be paying that if scary kerry had had his way. once again stop for your own sake watching and listening to the terrible trio hannity limbaugh and oreilly. this is another item that the right attack machine distorted yelled and screamed for a day or two and when it was shown to be untrue let it drop as if they had never heard of it. of course they never told thier listeners/watchers the truth. kinda like hannity screaming for two days about the so called kerry affair with the blonde staffer. lol... you guys crack me up. how much truth has to be paraded before you before youll realize the unprecedented criminality of the present administration yeah i know clintons cock right .

From : milesh

tbone wrote like i said before show me and i want to see the stats from the past 5 years no just the past 3 months. huh you stated that the dols stats dont show technology jobs. thats bs. they most certainly do. you cant find them .

From : miles

jeff mayner wrote once again stop for your own sake watching and listening to the terrible trio hannity limbaugh and oreilly. i for one do not listen to any of those guys. i listen to what kerry has said in the past has voted on and what he is now saying. dont need some radio entertainer to say a thing. kerrys own words speak for themselves. hes full of bs and cant make up his mind what he stands for. a 100% negative campaign doesnt win very often. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote no unemploymet figures are peoples live you stupid ass. lol...it is you who discounts current unemployment figures as not reflecting the true situation. now you say they are peoples lives which is it bonehead do they tell anything meaningful or are the current low rates meaningless in your mind once again your simple mind is unable to comprehend even simple ideas. just because the are somewhat innaccurate doesnt mean that they dont represent americans that stand a damn good chance of losing everything that they worked so hard for. gee i wonder why those kinds of numbers are played down whenever possible. then perhaps you should explain it to me but i doubt that you will. rofl you need it explained you rant about the economy without knowing what the various economic indicators mean and how they are computed like i said you wouldnt because you cant. if you know as much as you claim to then prove it for a change. you made those same claims about alaska until you were slapped silly. that stat also shows the total number of people in the workforce. lol do you even have a clue on how the total workforce is calculated. like i said you and those like you only see what ypu are told to. yes i do know. pretty easy actually. figure it out yet you are the one claiming all of the knowlege here. how about you actually back it up for a change oh thats right you cant. the total workforce as well as the unemployment numbers does not take into account the number of people working part time because they cannot find full time work or the number of people now working at much lower paying jobs because their jobs were outsourced. bull. those stats are available if you took the time to look. show me. companies file taxes that show how many are working and how much they are making. your argument that people are working for lower wages is false. the workforce stats show your statement to be based on your opinions and not whats actually recorded. lol it shows the salaries for a particular job but at best they are only averages. the problem with averages is that they are easily influenced to show an inaccurate picture and dont reflect the number of these jobs that still exist and speaking of your workforce stats from the site http//www.bls.gov/.release/empsit.nr0.htm shows the total workforce for 2003 at 146986 and 2004 so far as 146661. unless this country is currently in a massive population decrease it just shows how easily the figures can be manipulated to make things look better. i would guess that part of the reduction is due to reserves being called to active duty and the rest due to people simply being dropped for not working within a set period of time. when you drop the workforce numbers the unemployment numbers start to look a lot better. and that old rightist bs that people are working even though many of them are working at salaries well below what they used to be making shows a typical rightist half-truth. thats complete bs made up by your own biased leftist mind. the stats show otherwise. you have not stated where your opinion comes from. mine comes from released government workforce stats that you could easily research if you were so inclined. however i doubt that you would take such time. you already made up your mind and facts would just cloud it up. no miles that would be you. here is the report that you should be looking at and it is from your sources. data extracted on april 22 2004 50200 pm labor force statistics from the current population survey series id lnu02000000not seasonally adjustedseries title unadj employment levellabor force status employedtype of data number in thousandsage 16 years and over year jan feb mar apr may jun jul aug sep oct nov dec annual 1994 119901 120503 120844 121604 122946 123864 124503 124493 123775 124724 124896 124729 123060 1995 122597 123343 123943 124278 124554 125720 126548 125926 125173 125979 125599 125136 124900 1996 123126 124137 124992 125388 126391 127706 128579 128143 127529 128439 128157 127903 126708 1997 126384 126887 128125 128629 129565 130463 131350 130865 129972 130671 130999 130785 129558 1998 128882 129482 130150 130735 131476 132265 132769 132206 131864 132424 132577 132732 131463 1999 131339 131639 132299 132552 133411 134395 134800 134264 133555 134390 134515 134696 133488 2000 1349121 135490 136054 136927 136685 137915 137769 137308 136790 137532 137461 137846 136891 2001 136181 136577 137155 137022 137121 137737 138239 136809 136835 136885 136370 136269 136933 2002 134177 135443 135558 135903 136559 137181 137495 137295 137377 137551 136684 136599 136485 2003 1359071 136433 136783 137424 137567 138468 138503 138137 137731 138619 138700 138556 137736 2004 1369241 137384 137691 1 data affected by changes in population controls in january 2000 jan

From : beekeep

on wed 21 apr 2004 141257 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote well with the shit job that bush is doing i doubt that anyone will notice. lets see - the koreans captured the pleblo on the high sees - we did nothing rag heads bombed the world trade center - we did nothing they blew a hole in the side of the cole - we did nothing. the only mistake that bl made was he attacked us with a republican in office. and thank god one was or this crap would still be going on and they would be getting a stronger foothold within our borders. this shit has to end and we have a leader thats doing what it takes. sorry folks but we are at war and times get a little tougher during war time. freedom aint cheap. beekeep .

From : tbone

tbone wrote you really like to keep your head buried way into the sand dont you. please provide a link that shows a recovery of all of the jobs that are lost moron. that factual data that you are looking at only reflects the number of people currently on unemployment and when it runs out they disappear from those figures. omg no wonder so many lefties such as yourself believe this crap!! we believe it because it is true. unemployment figures are only one economic indicator. no unemploymet figures are peoples live you stupid ass. youre forgetting the stats for new job creation and how it is figured. then perhaps you should explain it to me but i doubt that you will. that stat also shows the total number of people in the workforce. lol do you even have a clue on how the total workforce is calculated. like i said you and those like you only see what ypu are told to. you ignore total workforce numbers because they go against your belief that unemployment is mega high. the total workforce as well as the unemployment numbers does not take into account the number of people working part time because they cannot find full time work or the number of people now working at much lower paying jobs because their jobs were outsourced. it also does not include the number of people that have stopped looking or those that they are unaware of that are still looking. not such a rosy picture when you look at it in the light of day. that ol lefty line about people falling off the unemployment list because it ran out is flat out lefty propaganda for those that have no clue what the stats truly mean. and that old rightist bs that people are working even though many of them are working at salaries well below what they used to be making shows a typical rightist half-truth. now go look up the numbers for total people in the workforce and then tell me how bad unemployment is. good grief. i did and perhaps you should read the entire article not ust what you want to see. i noticed that the department of labor in not including the technology fields in their report imagine that. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

on wed 21 apr 2004 141257 gmt tbone t-bonenospam@nc.rr.com wrote well with the shit job that bush is doing i doubt that anyone will notice. lets see - the koreans captured the pleblo on the high sees - we did nothing rag heads bombed the world trade center - we did nothing are ya so sure about that. they blew a hole in the side of the cole - we did nothing. really the only mistake that bl made was he attacked us with a republican in office. and thank god one was or this crap would still be going on and they would be getting a stronger foothold within our borders. not hardly. no president could do nothing then but i doubt that we would be in a meaningless war with iraq now that is costing us billions and doing nothing besides making key people a shit load of money. this shit has to end and we have a leader thats doing what it takes. lol. sorry folks but we are at war and times get a little tougher during war time. fair enough and our war with afghanistan is justified but the loses we have in iraq are not. every reason that was given to justify going there has proven to be complete bs. freedom aint cheap. that line is getting a bit old and is being used to justify bullsh

From : jerry

tbone wrote and as usual you have the all to common conservative trait of having eyes wide shut and seeing only what you are told to. as usual you failed to answer a single question. why is no one surprised. jerry .

From : jerry

tbone wrote the total workforce as well as the unemployment numbers does not take into account the number of people working part time because they cannot find full time work or the number of people now working at much lower paying jobs because their jobs were outsourced. okay lets try again .............. how many jobs were outsourced in the last ten years cant answer that ................ okay well use your number how many jobs were outsourced in the last three years and your reference source please ................ surely a good radical lefty like yourself can answer this cant you jerry .

From : tbone

tbone wrote and as usual you have the all to common conservative trait of having eyes wide shut and seeing only what you are told to. as usual you failed to answer a single question. why is no one surprised. jerry and you deleted everything that you didnt want to see which was just about everything imagine that. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote no unemploymet figures are peoples live you stupid ass. lol...it is you who discounts current unemployment figures as not reflecting the true situation. now you say they are peoples lives which is it bonehead do they tell anything meaningful or are the current low rates meaningless in your mind then perhaps you should explain it to me but i doubt that you will. rofl you need it explained you rant about the economy without knowing what the various economic indicators mean and how they are computed that stat also shows the total number of people in the workforce. lol do you even have a clue on how the total workforce is calculated. like i said you and those like you only see what ypu are told to. yes i do know. pretty easy actually. figure it out yet the total workforce as well as the unemployment numbers does not take into account the number of people working part time because they cannot find full time work or the number of people now working at much lower paying jobs because their jobs were outsourced. bull. those stats are available if you took the time to look. companies file taxes that show how many are working and how much they are making. your argument that people are working for lower wages is false. the workforce stats show your statement to be based on your opinions and not whats actually recorded. and that old rightist bs that people are working even though many of them are working at salaries well below what they used to be making shows a typical rightist half-truth. thats complete bs made up by your own biased leftist mind. the stats show otherwise. you have not stated where your opinion comes from. mine comes from released government workforce stats that you could easily research if you were so inclined. however i doubt that you would take such time. you already made up your mind and facts would just cloud it up. i did and perhaps you should read the entire article not ust what you want to see. i noticed that the department of labor in not including the technology fields in their report imagine that. you dont look very hard do you the dols website most certainly does list technology jobs in its breakdown by sector report. the only thing not in it is farm jobs which are listed seperate. .

From : miles

jerry wrote okay lets try again .............. how many jobs were outsourced in the last ten years cant answer that ................ okay well use your number how many jobs were outsourced in the last three years and your reference source please ................ surely a good radical lefty like yourself can answer this cant you lol jerry so far all tbone has said is just his opinion of the job market and economy. stats are only meaningfull if they side with ones opinion otherwise they are misleading. everyone knows that! .

From : steve w

hope you dont mind buying the new engine when the dirt that k&n lets through destroys the top end of your current one. -- steve williams i am just glad i put that k&n filter in my truck for better mileage....... he he he that was this afternoons price to feed the ho. the lighter ends were going for $2.099 $2.159 $2.259 a gallon. the other 4 stations in the area were the same for the diesel except one was 2 whole pennies cheaper. gee i could have saved almost 65 cents. i love the truck wouldnt trade it. -- fmb only one b in fmb -----= posted via feeds.com uncensored usenet =----- http//www.feeds.com - the #1 group service in the world! -----== over 100000 groups - 19 different servers! =----- .

From : jeff mayner

trey wrote around here $2.25 is 87octane $250 for 91. and i saw diesel for $2.35-$2.55 this is why i love my motorcycle! 50mpg! but i cant carry as much stuff as your truck though i just picked up a little 03 mitsu lancer today. 34 mpg.i drive 100 miles a day and the $ was killing me. ill drive the hemi on the weekends at least until bandar does his magic around october. ;- jeff that was this afternoons price to feed the ho. the lighter ends were going for $2.099 $2.159 $2.259 a gallon. the other 4 stations in the area were the same for the diesel except one was 2 whole pennies cheaper. gee i could have saved almost 65 cents. i love the truck wouldnt trade it. -- fmb only one b in fmb .

From : jerry

saw a few headers and exhaust systems slide out the back door all nice and pretty while the sailors thought i wasnt looking. jerry . 222 281700 4087e09d.80204@earthlink.net jeff mayner wrote its shocking to me that clueless people like you are still passing this crap around. they were at the same anti-war rally30+ years ago but had no contact what-so-ever. 2 repub operatives faked a picture showing them standing together and passed it around the internet. proven to be a fake months ago. get a clue and stop watching/listening to hannity and limbaugh. your brain will thank you. the picture ive seen shows kerry at a rally sitting 2 or 3 rows behind little jane. dont believe hannity or limbaugh have ever claimed they were together or even knew each other. so maybe you could direct me to this faked mystery picture and maybe a article where it was claimed the two posed together. maybe you might be kind enough to name these so called two republican operatives failing to do all that maybe it would be just as easy if you take your own advice and stop paying attention to teddy and combs and then maybe you might graduate out of that clue less group you are so worried about. jerry .

From : jeff mayner

mike simmons wrote wow!! where do yall live i just filled up my cummins last nite for $1.529/gal here in mo ventura ca. about 35 miles south of santa barbara. you cannot find regular 87 for less than $2.23 around here. - jeff mike around here $2.25 is 87octane $250 for 91. and i saw diesel for $2.35-$2.55 this is why i love my motorcycle! 50mpg! but i cant carry as much stuff as your truck though that was this afternoons price to feed the ho. the lighter ends were going for $2.099 $2.159 $2.259 a gallon. the other 4 stations in the area were the same for the diesel except one was 2 whole pennies cheaper. gee i could have saved almost 65 cents. i love the truck wouldnt trade it. -- fmb only one b in fmb .

From : jeff mayner

steve w. wrote add 50 cents in extra taxes if kerry gets in..... lol... jeff around here $2.25 is 87octane $250 for 91. and i saw diesel for $2.35-$2.55 this is why i love my motorcycle! 50mpg! but i cant carry as much stuff as your truck though that was this afternoons price to feed the ho. the lighter ends were going for $2.099 $2.159 $2.259 a gallon. the other 4 stations in the area were the same for the diesel except one was 2 whole pennies cheaper. gee i could have saved almost 65 cents. i love the truck wouldnt trade it. -- fmb only one b in fmb -----= posted via feeds.com uncensored usenet =----- http//www.feeds.com - the #1 group service in the world! -----== over 100000 groups - 19 different servers! =----- .

From : jeff mayner

tbone wrote well with the shit job that bush is doing i doubt that anyone will notice. buddy-boy bandar has it all worked out. ;- jeff add 50 cents in extra taxes if kerry gets in..... around here $2.25 is 87octane $250 for 91. and i saw diesel for $2.35-$2.55 this is why i love my motorcycle! 50mpg! but i cant carry as much stuff as your truck though that was this afternoons price to feed the ho. the lighter ends were going for $2.099 $2.159 $2.259 a gallon. the other 4 stations in the area were the same for the diesel except one was 2 whole pennies cheaper. gee i could have saved almost 65 cents. i love the truck wouldnt trade it. -- fmb only one b in fmb -----= posted via feeds.com uncensored usenet =----- http//www.feeds.com - the #1 group service in the world! -----== over 100000 groups - 19 different servers! =----- .

From : jeff mayner

arron ramsey wrote i am just glad i put that k&n filter in my truck for better mileage....... he he he you are the man. ;- jeff that was this afternoons price to feed the ho. the lighter ends were going for $2.099 $2.159 $2.259 a gallon. the other 4 stations in the area were the same for the diesel except one was 2 whole pennies cheaper. gee i could have saved almost 65 cents. i love the truck wouldnt trade it. -- fmb only one b in fmb .

From : jeff mayner

carolina watercraft works inc. wrote personally i think for the crap hand he was dealt he isnt doing all that poor of a job. kerry would be nothing more than another clinton...who im sure would have run away from this situation we are in. and my g/f was telling me of a picture of kerry posing with none other than hanoi jane...jane fonda...what a dup that is. 2 losers pictured together. its shocking to me that clueless people like you are still passing this crap around. they were at the same anti-war rally30+ years ago but had no contact what-so-ever. 2 repub operatives faked a picture showing them standing together and passed it around the internet. proven to be a fake months ago. get a clue and stop watching/listening to hannity and limbaugh. your brain will thank you. jeff we all have our ghosts...take care of yours my plate is full well with the shit job that bush is doing i doubt that anyone will notice. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving add 50 cents in extra taxes if kerry gets in..... around here $2.25 is 87octane $250 for 91. and i saw diesel for $2.35-$2.55 this is why i love my motorcycle! 50mpg! but i cant carry as much stuff as your truck though that was this afternoons price to feed the ho. the lighter ends were going for $2.099 $2.159 $2.259 a gallon. the other 4 stations in the area were the same for the diesel except one was 2 whole pennies cheaper. gee i could have saved almost 65 cents. i love the truck wouldnt trade it. -- fmb only one b in fmb -----= posted via feeds.com uncensored usenet =----- http//www.feeds.com - the #1 group service in the world! -----== over 100000 groups - 19 different servers! =----- .

From : milesh

jerry wrote the picture ive seen shows kerry at a rally sitting 2 or 3 rows behind little jane. dont believe hannity or limbaugh have ever claimed they were together or even knew each other. so maybe you could direct me to this faked mystery picture and maybe a article where it was claimed the two posed together. there were a few faked pics of them on the internet. others as you described were real. .

From : jerry

slick willy wrote snip so maybe you could direct me to this faked mystery picture and maybe a article where it was claimed the two posed together. snip heres the pic in question ... http//www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry.asp far as i know that picture is authentic. that is the only picture i have ever seen so i dont know about any others that are floating around. the picture shown in the link above only shows he was there which is no big deal as he attended a lot of those meetings. doesnt prove or disapprove he knew jane fonda. jerry .

From : slick willy

@earthlink.net slick willy wrote snip so maybe you could direct me to this faked mystery picture and maybe a article where it was claimed the two posed together. snip heres the pic in question ... http//www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry.asp far as i know that picture is authentic. that is the only picture i have ever seen so i dont know about any others that are floating around. the picture shown in the link above only shows he was there which is no big deal as he attended a lot of those meetings. doesnt prove or disapprove he knew jane fonda. jerry my intent was not to add fuel to the fire just to provide you a link to the pic in question. as a side note snopes.com is a site that verifies urban legengs -vs- real deal facts. not picking sides of the argument but providing requested info. -- regards slick willy 73 cb 450 95 xj 600 03 flstf mtfbwy ... always !!! remove the bendover to reply .

From : slick willy

nice nickname. i am a member of a mailing list called that as well. we discuss all kind of topics. mostly how folks like him enjoy screwing people out of anything they can. interested sounds good ping me offline with the details. the e-mail address in the header is my spamdump address. i will forward me normal address once i get the info. -- regards slick willy 73 cb 450 95 xj 600 03 flstf mtfbwy ... always !!! remove the bendover to reply .

From : steve w

nice nickname. i am a member of a mailing list called that as well. we discuss all kind of topics. mostly how folks like him enjoy screwing people out of anything they can. interested -- steve williams @earthlink.net slick willy wrote snip so maybe you could direct me to this faked mystery picture and maybe a article where it was claimed the two posed together. snip heres the pic in question ... http//www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry.asp far as i know that picture is authentic. that is the only picture i have ever seen so i dont know about any others that are floating around. the picture shown in the link above only shows he was there which is no big deal as he attended a lot of those meetings. doesnt prove or disapprove he knew jane fonda. jerry my intent was not to add fuel to the fire just to provide you a link to the pic in question. as a side note snopes.com is a site that verifies urban legengs -vs- real deal facts. not picking sides of the argument but providing requested info. -- regards slick willy 73 cb 450 95 xj 600 03 flstf mtfbwy ... always !!! remove the bendover to reply -----= posted via feeds.com uncensored usenet =----- http//www.feeds.com - the #1 group service in the world! -----== over 100000 groups - 19 different servers! =----- .

From : jerry

slick willy wrote my intent was not to add fuel to the fire just to provide you a link to the pic in question. as a side note snopes.com is a site that verifies urban legengs -vs- real deal facts. not picking sides of the argument but providing requested info. no argument here on that picture. jeff said someone had a picture of them posing together which that picture doesnt do and that one i have never seen. jerry .

From : slick willy

jerry jlrice1655@earthlink.net wrote in slick willy wrote my intent was not to add fuel to the fire just to provide you a link to the pic in question. as a side note snopes.com is a site that verifies urban legengs -vs- real deal facts. not picking sides of the argument but providing requested info. no argument here on that picture. jeff said someone had a picture of them posing together which that picture doesnt do and that one i have never seen. jerry you may be thinking of this pic ... http//www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry2.asp -- regards slick willy 73 cb 450 95 xj 600 03 flstf mtfbwy ... always !!! remove the bendover to reply .

From : jeff mayner

paul jensen wrote steve w. wrote add 50 cents in extra taxes if kerry gets in..... lol... we would already be paying that if scary kerry had had his way. once again stop for your own sake watching and listening to the terrible trio hannity limbaugh and oreilly. this is another item that the right attack machine distorted yelled and screamed for a day or two and when it was shown to be untrue let it drop as if they had never heard of it. of course they never told thier listeners/watchers the truth. kinda like hannity screaming for two days about the so called kerry affair with the blonde staffer. lol... you guys crack me up. how much truth has to be paraded before you before youll realize the unprecedented criminality of the present administration yeah i know clintons cock right .

From : paul jensen

with freedom comes individual responsibility. as good as that sounds it is complete bs. you sound like a socialist. i have no use for socialism. i like freedom. maybe youd like it better in cuba .

From : paul jensen

tbone wrote both sides are guilty of that miles. which side has the most to gain if the economy worsens neither. which side would lose the most if the economy does well both. do you really believe that lolololol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .

From : paul jensen

honestly can you really look at the present administrations record and tell me that theyve done a good job is the country better off than 4 years ago terrorism aside you cannot just set terrorism aside. if we dont win the war on terror nothing else will matter. and what is scary kerrys plan to defeat terror more firefighters!!! lolololol! .

From : tbone

tbone wrote both sides are guilty of that miles. which side has the most to gain if the economy worsens neither. which side would lose the most if the economy does well both. do you really believe that lolololol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and you dont i am not talking about an election here i am talking about the people. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote and you dont i am not talking about an election here i am talking about the people. rofl...figures. people vote. it will effect their vote and the election. nice try at spin. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote what part of the net job loss didnt you understand. what part of the magically shrinking workforce from the previous chart dont you understand shrinking only in your mind. http//data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost look at the last three months with each month lower than the month before. looks like shrinkage to me. and dont tell me theyre just flipping burgers. some probably are others are working in home depot loews and anywhere else they can find work and some just said fuck it and are home taking care of the kids while the other one works because they cant make enough money to offset the cost of daycare. any way you look at it miles there are still over 500000 jobs lost in this area alone. where exactly do you think that they went i guess that you believe in the tooth fairy as well if you actually believe the crap that you are saying. the dol stats show you where they went. really where the workforce is up not down as you claim. better look at those last three months again. look at the new jobs. lol it is funny to see you twist the truth. yes there are some new jobs but until the number of jobs exceed what was lost it is not growth but a recovery and we are still way below what we were when he took office. dol stats show new jobs are above the median income. youre hatered of the bush admin has made it impossible to believe anything but doom and gloom. hate is such a strong word and not appropriate. i do think that he is an idiot and have yet to see him do much of anything for the country. then with his stand on the enviornment i simply have no respect for the man. he has done plenty for those who need it the least. you call me a lefty but i did vote for regan both times liked ford and thought that carter was not presidential material. hell i even voted for bush senior the first time in the hope that he could recover the economy from regans errors with his run-away economy. did you ever vote for a non-republican candidate in your life if not then you are far more to the right than i am to the left. yawn up compared to what a few months ago lol. when they are up compared to previous all time highs then it counts otherwise it is nothing more than your typical right wing smoke and mirrors. rofl...all time highs you want once again for people to blindly invest billions into companies that existed only on paper i am not talking about investment dollars im talking about employment figures. the more people that are employed and make and spend money the better that everyone does. right now it is turning into the very rich vs the very poor and no middle class. no they count when they are accurate rofl..accurate when they agree with you inaccurate when they dont. point out some real job growth that exceeds the long term and you win but i know that you cant do it. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote where is all of this good most of it is just smoke and mirrors and it pissis the conservative when the smoke is blown away and people are reminded of the reality. well then i for one am living your smoke and mirros and loving it. business is going great. best its ever been. good for you i never said that everyone ws doing poorly. what is your buisness. no they just want people to remember the way it really was for the last 3 years and not be blinded by some minor possibly short term up-swing. way it was people invested billions into worthless stocks. no different than when reagan did it oh wait a minuit no killer interest rates i guess that it was different. sure they made great money while people continued to invest. sooner or later those investments either have to pay off or the whole thing collapses. yep some people were stupid but we are recovering at a snails pace and bush is doing nothing to aid the recovery. guess which one happened and you sit here and want a return to that no i am just tired of hearing bs form the right praising bush and claiming that the loss of our jobs to third world economies that the american worker could never compete with is a good thing when that clearly is a fucking lie. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote oh please. i have no problem saying im against something hes done that disagrees with what i believe in. really name two. 1immigration 2abortion now lets here your list of things you agree with bush on. 1. elimination of the marrige penalty 2. forming the combined security office. the fact that you consider me a radical lefty shows just how far to the right that you really are. rofl...i am a conservative and proud of it. but there are some traditionally liberal concepts i am in favor of. you on the other hand seem to love anything any dem leader says as long as it goes against what bush says. that is a radical lefty. once again you make claims you cannot hope to back up. i have voted for republicans in the past. can you make that claim about democrats of course not. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

jeff mayner wrote calling themselves republican still think wmd has been found in iraq and wmds were found in the 1990s. so what that was over 10 years ago. when inspectors returned those that they had inventoried photographed and tagged were no longer there. because he was told to dispose of them. saddam did not disclose them in his declaration nor provide any evidence as to their destruction. because he couldnt and bush knew that. so the question isnt if he had them it is where are they now some may have been used and others destroyed. any way you look at it they are not available and ready for use like the bush administration claimed. they existed so they must exist in some form somewhere but dems could careless. lol more senseless spin. you assume facts not in evidence and then make accusations that you can in no way back up. funny how when i accused the oil companies of doing similar things you accuse me of being full of it. i guess that when you do it its different. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

jeff mayner wrote honestly can you really look at the present administrations record and tell me that theyve done a good job is the country better off than 4 years ago terrorism aside and right about now bush cant even use his record on terrorism as a plus his admin has been an absolute disaster. as seen by radical lefties. and anyone else that has both eyes open. most do not understand economics. and others like you try to fudge the figures to make things look much better than they really are because of this. especially as to what caused the market rise in the 90s and what caused the economy to start its downturn in 2000. the rise was a combination of investing some of it stupid and a rapid growth in technology. the fall was the realization that some of these investments were foolish and a loss of confidence which seemed to happen almost right after the first debate between bush and gore. they blame or credit whomever is in office at the time. because sometimes they are responsible. pure partisan politics rather than any real understanding. in many cases you are correct. bush was handed a bad hand. yes he was and did nothing to try and correct it. he just used it as an excuse to push his ideas through. the economy was falling when he took office. no the economy was poised for failure when he took office and he did nothing to prevent it or slow it down. it is now growing rapidly. once again complete bs and you have yet to back this claim up in any way. yes the rich are getting richer but what about the rest of us -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote look at the last three months with each month lower than the month before. looks like shrinkage to me. muhahaha....arent you the one that pointed out earlier to look at the last several years and not just a few months seems like youll look at data any way you can to show things are bad and toss out anything that says youre wrong. the total number of people employed has gone up every year since 2000 and unemployment has dropped. just about every indicator there is shows strong growth. but go ahead with your doom and gloom and the rest of us will be enjoying the improving times. better look at those last three months again. rofl better look at your statements to not look at just the past few months. lol it is funny to see you twist the truth. yes there are some new jobs but until the number of jobs exceed what was lost it is not growth but a recovery and we are still way below what we were when he took office. look at dols stats. there are more people in the workforce now than in your so called glory years of the 90s. you seem bent on believing doom and gloom because your politicians told you so. dont you realize thats part of dems campaign 2004 you bought. then with his stand on the enviornment i simply have no respect for the man. you respect a guy who owns 3 autos that get less than 20mpg city ya mr. i dont own an suv the family has it kerry is really concerned about environment. what a hoot. i am not talking about investment dollars im talking about employment figures. the money of the 90s was from massive blind high risk investing. that money is what spurred the economy which includes increased employment. the way to return to that is to get people to invest billions just as stupidly as they did in the 90s. great economy hardly. it was doomed from the start. but unlike you blaming bush i do not credit nor blame clinton for the rise and predicted fall. you do realize the economy started falling under clintons watch since you seem to think the economy revolves around the president. the more people that are employed and make and spend money the better that everyone does. right now it is turning into the very rich vs the very poor and no middle class. so just tax the hell out of the rich and hand it out to the poor right the rich are just cash cows you can take from whenever ya need a few extra $s right rather than bring down the top how about elevating the bottom taking from the rich and giving to the poor has never had any great positive effect on poverty. its only effect has been to oppress them further. but hey that gains votes right point out some real job growth that exceeds the long term and you win but i know that you cant do it. 1994 total employed was 121966000. in jan 2004 it was 138566000. 10 years increased every year. these numbers are adjusted for seasonal differences and population gains. i win. .

From : miles

tbone wrote the rise was a combination of investing some of it stupid and a rapid growth in technology. almost all of the massive gains in investing were spurred by the very stupid ones. it was indeed because of the rapid growth in technology. people were blindly investing in new technologies with high hopes. unfortunatly many of those technologies eventually flopped causing our downturn. the money that was invested vaporized. the fall was the realization that some of these investments were foolish and a loss of confidence which seemed to happen almost right after the first debate between bush and gore. rofl..back to partisan politics as to what or whom to blame. clinton didnt cause the rise nor the fall started in 2000 and neither did bush. it was stupid investors. yes he was and did nothing to try and correct it. he just used it as an excuse to push his ideas through. the economy was falling in 2000. what did gore preach about in his campaigns he touted how great things were when economists were saying things are gonna collapse. no the economy was poised for failure when he took office and he did nothing to prevent it or slow it down. i repeat. the economy was growing when clinton first took office from bush sr. the economy was falling when clinton left office. poised it was poised for failure in the late 90s. what did clinton do about it he and gore told you how great things were even though they were starting to turn sour. you bought it. once again complete bs and you have yet to back this claim up in any way. yes the rich are getting richer but what about the rest of us i am part of the rest of us. i and my entire extended family are doing far better now than we were in the 90s. dol stats suggest the same nationwide. look at the average salaries adjusted for inflation. they are up from 2000. and they are up for almost all sectors from low to high not just rich jobs as dems like to believe. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote and you dont i am not talking about an election here i am talking about the people. rofl...figures. people vote. it will effect their vote and the election. nice try at spin. again all you can think of is the vote. if the economy does well we all benefit or do you now think that this is untrue if the economy tanks we all suffer. bush has already made his bed and his record simply sucks. having the economy tank now does nothing for anybody. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote because he was told to dispose of them. lol...and you just take his word for it i for one would like some evidence of their disposal. if he did destroy them he could have provide some proof of their remains. he told the un he would not do that. lol and for good reason. if it was fully known that he was now pretty much disarmed with the way he treated the people around him how long do you think it would take before they enacted their revenge i know this you probably know this and im sure that the president and his advisors knew it as well. saddam did not disclose them in his declaration nor provide any evidence as to their destruction. because he couldnt and bush knew that. and just why couldnt saddam provide any evidence of the known wmds disposal read above. some may have been used and others destroyed. any way you look at it they are not available and ready for use like the bush administration claimed. and you know this how because if they were we would have found them by now. hell he would have used them on our troops. you really ike to keep your eyes wide shut. heck we found jets buried in the sand and the only way they were found was by locals disclosing them. lol and what shape were they in. we found a lot of weapons too and most of them were useless. theres alot of sand to search and weve barely scratched the total area of iraq so far let alone syria. hahahhahaha now you are really grasping at straws. it they existed and were ready to use they would have been. saddam could care less about injuring his own people if he could wipe out a large number of americans. lol more senseless spin. you assume facts not in evidence and then make accusations that you can in no way back up. rofl...you mean if i cant find you then you never existed or no longer do now thats the spin you radical lefties are trying to spin. its no different than the shit you try to spin. the fact is they did exist. and when they did we had a pretty good idea where they were and how many. funny how we cant find a single on of them now even in the areas that they would not let us look into before. the fact is we have no evidence of their destruction. and we have no evidence of their continued existance either. actually all reports just prior to the was said that they did not exist anymore. the fact is that they exist in some form either intact or in pieces. now that is just retarded. you can say that about this country as well. we have all of the components here to make them so we in fact must be planning to wipe out the populations of many countries when you look at the pure volume of the components that we have. the fact is that any remains would be identifiable. once again you talk out of your ass. that is not fact it is pure bullshit. the metal could have been melted down and used for car parts. the chemicals singly may serve other purposes or simply may have been destroyed or dumped in the desert. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

names dude lets here some names. now how about congressman or presidential elections. i bet you just go right down the party line. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tbone wrote once again you make claims you cannot hope to back up. i have voted for republicans in the past. can you make that claim about democrats of course not. yep i have voted for dems many times. here in az the reps have done a horrible job and it cost them. ex-rep. gov. ed mecham used state funds for his own personal use millions and was impeached ex-rep. gov. fife simington is a convicted felon and was tossed out of office. we now have a dem. gov. although shes not going to last long with her very gray davis method of politics. none the less i favor many dems here over the dismal reps weve had. .

From : tbone

honestly can you really look at the present administrations record and tell me that theyve done a good job is the country better off than 4 years ago terrorism aside you cannot just set terrorism aside. if we dont win the war on terror nothing else will matter. and what is scary kerrys plan to defeat terror more firefighters!!! lolololol! when we experience another terrorist attack here we will need them more than soldiers dying for nothing. there is no way to win a was against terror and if you believe so you really are an ignorant person. we cant win the war on drugs either and have been trying for how long now btw he said terrorism aside to give bush a break not make him look worse and the simple fact is that this country is not better off than it was 4 years ago. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote again all you can think of is the vote. if the economy does well we all benefit or do you now think that this is untrue if the economy tanks we all suffer. bush has already made his bed and his record simply sucks. having the economy tank now does nothing for anybody. sigh...read back how this started. the dem politicians worst fears is for the economy to greatly improve. it would cost them any chance come the elections. you deny this and once again just like a predictable radical lefty you poke your jab at bush once again without anything much to say. .

From : miles

tbone wrote read above. thats a guess. i want facts not your guesses. the weapons were there. we need to find them or their remants...period. because if they were we would have found them by now. huh they were there. youre saying that since we cant find them now then they never existed sorry bonehead you cant rewrite what is fact. they were there. they still exist in some form or another. and when they did we had a pretty good idea where they were and how many. funny how we cant find a single on of them now even in the areas that they would not let us look into before. that doesnt change the fact that they did indeed exist. they were photographed by the un in the 90s. you cant answer what happened to them except to say saddam disposed of them. ok then where did he dispose of them the remants would be identifiable. and we have no evidence of their continued existance either. and thats acceptable to you we know they existed but since we cant find them now even remnants you just rewrite history and declare them to not exist the chemicals singly may serve other purposes or simply may have been destroyed or dumped in the desert. yep they could have been dumped. soil tests would confirm this. so far we havent found evidence of that. until that happens i would rather assume they still exist than make your politically motivated assumption that they do not. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote again all you can think of is the vote. if the economy does well we all benefit or do you now think that this is untrue if the economy tanks we all suffer. bush has already made his bed and his record simply sucks. having the economy tank now does nothing for anybody. sigh...read back how this started. the dem politicians worst fears is for the economy to greatly improve. it would cost them any chance come the elections. you deny this no there worst fear is that the economy will greatly improve and the people will forget about all the other shit that has happened and will probably happen if he is re-elected. as for any chance keep dreaming. this bullshit war that he has us in will hurt him far more than the current state of the economy. and once again just like a predictable radical lefty you poke your jab at bush once again without anything much to say. sorry dude but the fact that you keep calling me a radical really just shows ho radical you probably are. i didnt poke a jab at him i simply stated a fact. his record so far pretty much sucks. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

with freedom comes individual responsibility. as good as that sounds it is complete bs. you sound like a socialist. i have no use for socialism. i like freedom. maybe youd like it better in cuba that is about the dumbest thing that i ever. i find it comical that anytime someone disagrees with a right wing radical like yourself they are a socialist lol. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : paul jensen

with freedom comes individual responsibility. as good as that sounds it is complete bs. you sound like a socialist. i have no use for socialism. i like freedom. maybe youd like it better in cuba that is about the dumbest thing that i ever. i find it comical that anytime someone disagrees with a right wing radical like yourself they are a socialist lol. i didnt call you a socialist because i disagree with you. i called you a socialist because you do not believe in individual responsibilty and you obviously think government is the solution for people who make stupid decisions. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : paul jensen

again all you can think of is the vote. if the economy does well we all benefit ummm....scary kerry doesnt. if the economy does well his chances of being elected are nil. are you really so stupid that you dont understand this .

From : paul jensen

this bullshit war that he has us in oh yes. it would have been much better to let sadaam and his boys keep putting people through shredders. while they were alive. feet first. thats much better than stopping it. lololol!!!!! .

From : paul jensen

no i am just tired of hearing bs form the right praising bush and claiming that the loss of our jobs to third world economies is that why toyota is build all of their north american sold trucks and 80% of their north american cars in the u.s. thats insourcing boy. go back to third grade. .

From : tbone

then perhaps you should send a letter to your good buddy bush. it appears that is the way his campaign has now turned to that as well. of course it really wouldnt matter the man simply doesnt seem to have the intelligence to rethink anything and alter his course for changing conditions. thank god he is not the captain of a ship during storm season lol. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving jeff mayner wrote once again stop for your own sake watching and listening to the terrible trio hannity limbaugh and oreilly. i for one do not listen to any of those guys. i listen to what kerry has said in the past has voted on and what he is now saying. dont need some radio entertainer to say a thing. kerrys own words speak for themselves. hes full of bs and cant make up his mind what he stands for. a 100% negative campaign doesnt win very often. .

From : milesh

tbone wrote dude you are wasting your time here. many here are so right wing that bush is god and can do nothing wrong or if they are forced to see any error at all quickly run to the monica issue lol. dudette a few such as yourself are so left winged that they believe anything a dem politician says is correct. especially if what they say is negative towards bush. partisan politics at its worst. .

From : milesh

tbone wrote then perhaps you should send a letter to your good buddy bush. it appears that is the way his campaign has now turned to that as well. of course it really wouldnt matter the man simply doesnt seem to have the intelligence to rethink anything and alter his course for changing conditions. thank god he is not the captain of a ship during storm season lol. rofl...you lefties are hypocrites! when bush does alter his course for changing conditions you blast him for it simply because he altered course as you say. even when the change was in the direction you lefties wanted. blast anyways. kerry on the other hand doesnt alter because of changing conditions. he tosses something out sees what kind of reaction he gets and then alters his opinions based on it. the guy doesnt stand for anything. he just says what gets him the most attention for the moment. but because hes the dem candidate whatever he says is accepted by the radical lefties. at least the more moderate dems know when kerrys bsing again. .

From : jerry

jeff mayner wrote you guys crack me up. how much truth has to be paraded before you before youll realize the unprecedented criminality of the present administration well one thing is for sure he wont get it from you. just like those on the far right that are radical and wrong those like yourself on the far left are just as radical and wrong. problem is both sides are in the same boat but to bitter and stupid to realize they are rowing in opposite directions. jerry .

From : tbone

lol yea miles like you or the right wingers are any different and the fact that you have to start off with childish name calling doesnt say much for your opinion either. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tbone wrote dude you are wasting your time here. many here are so right wing that bush is god and can do nothing wrong or if they are forced to see any error at all quickly run to the monica issue lol. dudette a few such as yourself are so left winged that they believe anything a dem politician says is correct. especially if what they say is negative towards bush. partisan politics at its worst. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote like i said before show me and i want to see the stats from the past 5 years no just the past 3 months. huh you stated that the dols stats dont show technology jobs. thats bs. they most certainly do. you cant find them is that all you have to say lol. cant defend any of your arguments i see. tell ya what show me a link that specifically details tech jobs without grouping them into a general clasification with just about all other office workers and that shows a respectable increase over the past 5 years and that we are at least back to the high point that we were and you win. i bet that you wont do it because you cant. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

jeff mayner wrote you guys crack me up. how much truth has to be paraded before you before youll realize the unprecedented criminality of the present administration well one thing is for sure he wont get it from you. or you either for that matter. just like those on the far right that are radical and wrong those like yourself on the far left are just as radical and wrong. problem is both sides are in the same boat but to bitter and stupid to realize they are rowing in opposite directions. another problem is that those that are on those extremes have no idea that they are much like yourself. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote lol yea miles like you or the right wingers are any different and the fact that you have to start off with childish name calling doesnt say much for your opinion either. oh please. i have no problem saying im against something hes done that disagrees with what i believe in. there are some radical right wingers and they do indeed get just as bad as the radical lefties such as yourself. .

From : milesh

tbone wrote is that all you have to say lol. cant defend any of your arguments i see. tell ya what show me a link that specifically details tech jobs without grouping them into a general clasification with just about all other office workers and that shows a respectable increase over the past 5 years and that we are at least back to the high point that we were and you win. i bet that you wont do it because you cant. try to stick with your one statement at a time. you stated the dols site doesnt show tech jobs. it most certainly does. what catagories do you want look at table b-1. the dol shows the following under manufacturing computer and electronic products computer and peripheral equipmen communications equipment semiconductors and electronic components electronic instruments electrical equipment and appliances now one you accept the fact youre wrong about the dol not showing tech jobs well move on to discuss your other rants. .

From : milesh

tbone wrote another problem is that those that are on those extremes have no idea that they are much like yourself. anyone that disagrees with you is an extremist a radical is one that touts nearly 100% partyline antics regardless of the issue. look at those that routinly bash bush at all topics and praise kerry on anything he says even when bush and kerry are in agreement on a given issue. there are some things i disagree with bush on and agree with kerry. not so with most radicals they bash one side or the other regardless of the topic at hand. .

From : jerry

tbone wrote jeff mayner wrote you guys crack me up. how much truth has to be paraded before you before youll realize the unprecedented criminality of the present administration well one thing is for sure he wont get it from you. or you either for that matter. just like those on the far right that are radical and wrong those like yourself on the far left are just as radical and wrong. problem is both sides are in the same boat but to bitter and stupid to realize they are rowing in opposite directions. another problem is that those that are on those extremes have no idea that they are much like yourself. you not only proved my point you just once again proved youre nothing but a common troll .......... jerry .

From : tbone

tbone wrote is that all you have to say lol. cant defend any of your arguments i see. tell ya what show me a link that specifically details tech jobs without grouping them into a general clasification with just about all other office workers and that shows a respectable increase over the past 5 years and that we are at least back to the high point that we were and you win. i bet that you wont do it because you cant. try to stick with your one statement at a time. you stated the dols site doesnt show tech jobs. it most certainly does. what catagories do you want look at table b-1. the dol shows the following under manufacturing thanks miles i just didnt see it my bad. computer and electronic products computer and peripheral equipmen communications equipment semiconductors and electronic components electronic instruments electrical equipment and appliances the problem is that none of these are correct and you failed once again to provive what i asked for. all of this is hardware related and was pretty much outsourced most of our electronics production in the us long ago. what i am referring to is programming help desk and anything else that has to do with software and data and that is clasified under information. now one you accept the fact youre wrong about the dol not showing tech jobs well move on to discuss your other rants. now that i know where to look thanks again it also shows the same bleek picture that you and others like you deny exist. i have switch my browser to html mode to make the chart easier to look at. series id ceu5000000001not seasonally adjustedsuper sector informationindustry informationdata type all employees thousands year jan feb mar apr may jun jul aug sep oct nov dec annual 1994 2690 2699 2707 2714 2721 2739 2747 2763 2745 2759 2781 2796 2738 1995 2773 2805 2817 2827 2831 2846 2862 2864 2857 2865 2884 2890 2843 1996 2874 2884 2898 2904 2917 2943 2961 2974 2962 2969 2993 3003 2940 1997 2999 3017 3038 3050 3068 3099 3111 3122 3100 3115 3132 3151 3084 1998 3144 3161 3171 3184 3203 3223 3246 3245 3231 3249 3270 3293 3218 1999 3293 3322 3331 3348 3390 3421 3449 3467 3464 3487 3514 3537 3419 2000 3539 3561 3586 3601 3616 3656 3676 3599 3662 3665 3689 3716 3631 2001 3697 3704 3713 3677 3664 3656 3636 3614 3566 3549 3543 3532 3629 2002 3482 3458 3448 3426 3415 3417 3397 3386 3329 3340 3337 3302 3395 2003 3249 3221 3214 3203 3198 3207 3203 3189 3164 3159 3177 3189 3198 2004 3151 3155p 3158p p preliminary if you look at this chart which encompasses the information sector you will see that during march of 2001 we were at an all time high of 3713 and i believe this number is in the thousands. last month we were at 3158 and that is a loss of over 1/2 a million jobs. once again not the rosy picture that you would like it to be. hell we havent seen a steady increase until jan of this year and the increase is far from stellar and were doing better than this in 1998. i will now await your stunning reply. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote now that i know where to look thanks again it also shows the same bleek picture that you and others like you deny exist. no it doesnt. youre picking out one sector and trying to say the entire economy is based on it. thats absurd. the average adjusted salary is up since 2000. that means it has outpaced inflation which has been close to zero. what indicators do you refer to when you say things are bleak or do you pick out specific ones that have fallen in order to base the entire economy on .

From : tbone

tbone wrote now that i know where to look thanks again it also shows the same bleek picture that you and others like you deny exist. no it doesnt. lol yes it does and as i expected nothing but deletions. youre picking out one sector and trying to say the entire economy is based on it. thats absurd. that is the sector that we were talking about do you want others the only thing absurd here is your lack of reasoning. the average adjusted salary is up since 2000. that means it has outpaced inflation which has been close to zero. big deal that means nothing. if i fire 50 of my 100 employees and give the remining ones a 3% raise for doing twice the work my average adjusted salary for them would still be above the rate of inflation but there is still 50 people that dont have jobs and their adjusted salary is now zero. what indicators do you refer to when you say things are bleak i really hope that you are joking. how about the over 500000 people that no longer have jobs in this one area alone or do you pick out specific ones that have fallen in order to base the entire economy on lol and this comming from the one you who has yet to post even a single fact to back up his bullshit. any way you look at it we have less jobs now then we did when he began his term. now put up of shut up! -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote i really hope that you are joking. how about the over 500000 people that no longer have jobs in this one area alone what about the 500000 that now have jobs that didnt before and dont tell me theyre just flipping burgers. dols stats show otherwise. bleak my ass. almost all sectors of the economy are up including consumer indicators. ya they count only when they reflect your opinion. .

From : miles

miles wrote tbone wrote what part of the net job loss didnt you understand. what part of the magically shrinking workforce from the previous chart dont you understand shrinking only in your mind. http//data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost try this one as that link is a query response and wont work. select the top item. http//data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymostln .

From : paul jensen

once again stop for your own sake watching and listening to the terrible trio hannity limbaugh and oreilly. this is another item that the right attack machine distorted yelled and screamed for a day or two and when it was shown to be untrue let it drop as if they had never heard of it. of course they never told thier listeners/watchers the truth. so why dont you share with us your version of the truth .

From : tbone

tbone wrote i really hope that you are joking. how about the over 500000 people that no longer have jobs in this one area alone what about the 500000 that now have jobs that didnt before what part of the net job loss didnt you understand. what part of the magically shrinking workforce from the previous chart dont you understand and dont tell me theyre just flipping burgers. some probably are others are working in home depot loews and anywhere else they can find work and some just said fuck it and are home taking care of the kids while the other one works because they cant make enough money to offset the cost of daycare. any way you look at it miles there are still over 500000 jobs lost in this area alone. where exactly do you think that they went i guess that you believe in the tooth fairy as well if you actually believe the crap that you are saying. dols stats show otherwise. they show no such thing since both charts i posted came from the dol. btw im still waiting for you to come up with a single stat to back this load of crap your spewing out up but is becoming obvious that it will never happen.. bleak my ass. almost all sectors of the economy are up including consumer indicators. yawn up compared to what a few months ago lol. when they are up compared to previous all time highs then it counts otherwise it is nothing more than your typical right wing smoke and mirrors. ya they count only when they reflect your opinion. no they count when they are accurate and i would look into yours but you have yet to show us anything. all you do is spout garbage with nothing to back any of it up. i have shown both a magically shrinking workforce and a 500000+ job loss in the information fields alone directly from the dol and of course all you could do is delete them and come up with more garbage. you also said that you would address my other points when i responded to yours and all i see is deletions and not much of anything else. i guess that makes you a liar too. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote jeff mayner wrote you guys crack me up. how much truth has to be paraded before you before youll realize the unprecedented criminality of the present administration well one thing is for sure he wont get it from you. or you either for that matter. just like those on the far right that are radical and wrong those like yourself on the far left are just as radical and wrong. problem is both sides are in the same boat but to bitter and stupid to realize they are rowing in opposite directions. another problem is that those that are on those extremes have no idea that they are much like yourself. you not only proved my point you just once again proved youre nothing but a common troll .......... lol funny when you make posts like this hell this one in fact it is ok but if anyone else does it they are just a troll. your level of denial is running deep. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : paul jensen

names dude lets here some names. now how about congressman or presidential elections. i bet you just go right down the party line. i know this was directed at miles but i will tell you i have voted for democrats as diverse as jesse jackson lawton chiles and bob graham. but i am a right-winger only or so you say. .

From : paul jensen

when we experience another terrorist attack here we will need them more than soldiers dying for nothing. there is no way to win a was against terror and if you believe so you really are an ignorant person. we cant win the war on drugs either ummm....i dont know of any drug dealers or users who has vowed to kill all americans. you better damn hope we can win the war on terror and we wont win it with a bunch of firefighters either. you really dont understand what these people want to do do you .

From : paul jensen

tbone wrote when we experience another terrorist attack here we will need them more than soldiers dying for nothing. there is no way to win a was against terror and if you believe so you really are an ignorant person. ah so we just cave in hire more firefighters and sit back and wait till theyre needed. good plan. thats the dems platform strategy thats o.k. more firefighters to download porn from the internet on government computers cook for each other and trim each others mustaches. sure thatll work. maybe scary kerry will throw in a few more cops and some doughnut shops too! lolololol!!!!! .

From : paul jensen

jeff mayner wrote calling themselves republican still think wmd has been found in iraq and wmds were found in the 1990s. so what that was over 10 years ago. when inspectors returned those that they had inventoried photographed and tagged were no longer there. because he was told to dispose of them. and document that disposal. which he didnt do. if he did dispose of them why the hell wouldnt he provide the proof. if he did hed still be in power and uday and kuday would still be slicing people up in their shredder. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote then perhaps you should send a letter to your good buddy bush. it appears that is the way his campaign has now turned to that as well. of course it really wouldnt matter the man simply doesnt seem to have the intelligence to rethink anything and alter his course for changing conditions. thank god he is not the captain of a ship during storm season lol. rofl...you lefties are hypocrites! lol it seems to you that anyone that criticizes bush is nothing but a radical lefty. wake up dude. when bush does alter his course for changing conditions you blast him for it simply because he altered course as you say. lol when did that ever happen him changing course unless he is getting bashed from all sides and even then.... even when the change was in the direction you lefties wanted. oh i see if he does change course it is always to the left. then that would make the right pretty stupid then. blast anyways. kerry on the other hand doesnt alter because of changing conditions. he tosses something out sees what kind of reaction he gets and then alters his opinions based on it. rotflmao and you know this how the republican spin machine!!! the guy doesnt stand for anything. once again you follow the spin machine so much for thinking for yourself. perhaps he changed his mind because he could and felt he needed to as more information became available to him. thinking men do that every now and then. he just says what gets him the most attention for the moment. as does anyone running for office including bush. but because hes the dem candidate whatever he says is accepted by the radical lefties. pretty much the same thing for bush and the radical rightists. at least the more moderate dems know when kerrys bsing again. and the moderate republicans know that bush is far from the best choice. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote what part of the net job loss didnt you understand. what part of the magically shrinking workforce from the previous chart dont you understand shrinking only in your mind. http//data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost and dont tell me theyre just flipping burgers. some probably are others are working in home depot loews and anywhere else they can find work and some just said fuck it and are home taking care of the kids while the other one works because they cant make enough money to offset the cost of daycare. any way you look at it miles there are still over 500000 jobs lost in this area alone. where exactly do you think that they went i guess that you believe in the tooth fairy as well if you actually believe the crap that you are saying. the dol stats show you where they went. the workforce is up not down as you claim. look at the new jobs. dol stats show new jobs are above the median income. youre hatered of the bush admin has made it impossible to believe anything but doom and gloom. yawn up compared to what a few months ago lol. when they are up compared to previous all time highs then it counts otherwise it is nothing more than your typical right wing smoke and mirrors. rofl...all time highs you want once again for people to blindly invest billions into companies that existed only on paper sure it produce quick riches. also quick failures. thats a good economy to you no they count when they are accurate rofl..accurate when they agree with you inaccurate when they dont. .

From : paul jensen

then perhaps you should send a letter to your good buddy bush. it appears that is the way his campaign has now turned to that as well. just using scary kerrys own words. thats all thats needed to sink his campaign. now all of a sudden quoting a candidate is a dirty campaign. lol! .

From : paul jensen

some probably are others are working in home depot loews and anywhere else they can find work and some just said fuck it and are home taking care of the kids while the other one works because they cant make enough money to offset the cost of daycare. any way you look at it miles there are still over 500000 jobs lost in this area alone. just supposing for a moment this is true then what are these people doing to make themselves more marketable to employers or to lenders if they want to start a business should the government been responsible for the unemployed carraige makers when the automobile came along what about the kerosene industry with freedom comes individual responsibility. i went to college and got a bachelors degree in communications. ever since i was a kid i wanted to work in radio. to help me be more desirable to the industry i learned to be a broadcast engineer and got my license for that. but by the late 80s/early 90s i could see the handwriting on the wall. advancing technology combined with government deregulation was going to eliminate a helluva lot of jobs in my industry. back in the day one engineer might be responsible for 1-4 stations. i had been responsible for as many as 5 at one time by the end of my career. today that figure is more like 10-20 or more stations per engineer. do the math. there are a helluva lot of experienced broadcasters walking the streets these days not working in broadcasting. did i stay on until the bitter end take my chances then whine like a baby when i got downsized no! i wasnt that stupid. i went back to school got an accounting degree and have worked in that field for the past 10+ years. do i miss broadcasting damn right i do. but i had to face reality and now i love what i do now. sooner or later people have to be responsible for the decisions they make and if theyre in an industry that is outsourcing or whatever you call it then they need to do something so they can adapt to changing conditions. i hear all this whining about outsourcing but these people never mention insourcing. for example these people always seem to forget that an huge amount of japanese cars sold in this country and made here. same for the germans. guess that doesnt count huh .

From : tbone

people. while the government is not the solution for stupid decisions it need to help protect those that do not have the power to always protect themselves. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving . 222 282144 8dajc.124743$04.1821007@twister.southeast.rr.com this bullshit war that he has us in oh yes. it would have been much better to let sadaam and his boys keep putting people through shredders. while they were alive. feet first. thats much better than stopping it. lololol!!!!! what he does in his nation is none of our business. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

when we experience another terrorist attack here we will need them more than soldiers dying for nothing. there is no way to win a was against terror and if you believe so you really are an ignorant person. we cant win the war on drugs either ummm....i dont know of any drug dealers or users who has vowed to kill all americans. you better damn hope we can win the war on terror and we wont win it with a bunch of firefighters either. you really dont understand what these people want to do do you i do know what they want and no army is going to stop it. the only way to stop it is to kill them all and i believe that one other person tried to do that to a specific group. sarcasm on i dont remember the name but i believe it could have had something to do with germany and some type of camps. sarcasm off. do you think that the firefighters that ran into the wtc were any less brave than the soldiers in iraq when he get hit again who is going to save the lives of people here -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote when we experience another terrorist attack here we will need them more than soldiers dying for nothing. there is no way to win a was against terror and if you believe so you really are an ignorant person. ah so we just cave in hire more firefighters and sit back and wait till theyre needed. good plan. thats the dems platform strategy thats o.k. more firefighters to download porn from the internet on government computers cook for each other and trim each others mustaches. in all honesty when you say things like this you make yourself out to be a very stupid man. sure thatll work. maybe scary kerry will throw in a few more cops and some doughnut shops too! lolololol!!!!! so i guess that we dont need any police or firefighters in your world. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

with freedom comes individual responsibility. as good as that sounds it is complete bs. you sound like a socialist. i have no use for socialism. i like freedom. maybe youd like it better in cuba that is about the dumbest thing that i ever. i find it comical that anytime someone disagrees with a right wing radical like yourself they are a socialist lol. i didnt call you a socialist because i disagree with you. i called you a socialist because you do not believe in individual responsibilty and you obviously think government is the solution for people who make stupid decisions. i never said that i didnt believe in individual responsibility. if more people actually took it there would not be the need for so many laws or manuals 5 inches thick and 90% of it warnings. what i said was complete bs was usin

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol yea miles like you or the right wingers are any different and the fact that you have to start off with childish name calling doesnt say much for your opinion either. oh please. i have no problem saying im against something hes done that disagrees with what i believe in. really name two. there are some radical right wingers and they do indeed get just as bad as the radical lefties such as yourself. the fact that you consider me a radical lefty shows just how far to the right that you really are. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : paul jensen

the dol stats show you where they went. the workforce is up not down as you claim. look at the new jobs. dol stats show new jobs are above the median income. youre hatered of the bush admin has made it impossible to believe anything but doom and gloom. the problem is that good is bad for scary kerry and the libs. they need the economy to go to hell and that simply isnt happening. these people are cheering for bad . they want bad economic . they was the war on terror to go to hell. thats pretty sick when youre hoping for bad things to happen. .

From : miles

paul jensen wrote the problem is that good is bad for scary kerry and the libs. they need the economy to go to hell and that simply isnt happening. these people are cheering for bad . they want bad economic . they was the war on terror to go to hell. thats pretty sick when youre hoping for bad things to happen. thats bugs me too. these people want things to go south for political gains. its the down side to a two party system. .

From : b peg

http//www.gaspricewatch.com/usgasindex.asp bridgeport ca always seems to be the highest in the country today $2.69 for regular. el portal going into yosemite national park was at $2.79 for regular a couple of days ago. actually anywhere in california is high b .

From : miles

tbone wrote look at those that routinly bash bush at all topics and praise kerry on anything he says even when bush and kerry are in agreement on a given issue. who in here does that lol...look in the mirror. .

From : tbone

oh boy here comes another one from the eyes wide shut club. the dol stats show you where they went. the workforce is up not down as you claim. look at the new jobs. dol stats show new jobs are above the median income. youre hatered of the bush admin has made it impossible to believe anything but doom and gloom. the problem is that good is bad for scary kerry and the libs. where is all of this good most of it is just smoke and mirrors and it pissis the conservative when the smoke is blown away and people are reminded of the reality. they need the economy to go to hell and that simply isnt happening. lol that is because it already did. these people are cheering for bad . no they just want people to remember the way it really was for the last 3 years and not be blinded by some minor possibly short term up-swing. they want bad economic . no there is bad economic . the minor improvements so far have not even come close to covering what was lost. they was the war on terror to go to hell. now that is just being stupid. thats pretty sick when youre hoping for bad things to happen. pretty conservative when you want people to forget the bad things that happened. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote look at the last three months with each month lower than the month before. looks like shrinkage to me. muhahaha....arent you the one that pointed out earlier to look at the last several years and not just a few months it depends on what you are looking at. you claim to have so much knowledge in the operations of the economy and you dont know this if you are looking current unemployment rates you only need to look back a few months. if you are looking at overall growth after a recession you kinda need to look back to just prior to the recession to get an accurate picture. yea it looks great to see 50000 new jobs created untill you see that we are still 2000000 behind where we were. seems like youll look at data any way you can to show things are bad and toss out anything that says youre wrong. no that would be you. you look at small positive numbers in the short term and claim that the economy is awesome when it reality it is just barely beginning to recover. the total number of people employed has gone up every year since 2000 and unemployment has dropped. but these numbers are misleading and as you have seen yourself the workforce numbers are going down. perhaps you should do a little research into how the workforce number is adjusted before you make these claims. just about every indicator there is shows strong growth. lol not hardly. many show some growth but i see little that is strong. but go ahead with your doom and gloom and the rest of us will be enjoying the improving times. lol better look at those last three months again. rofl better look at your statements to not look at just the past few months. lol it is funny to see you twist the truth. yes there are some new jobs but until the number of jobs exceed what was lost it is not growth but a recovery and we are still way below what we were when he took office. look at dols stats. i did perhaps you should start. there are more people in the workforce now than in your so called glory years of the 90s. lol you really need to see how those numbers are influenced. you seem bent on believing doom and gloom because your politicians told you so. dont you realize thats part of dems campaign 2004 you bought. i only see reality unlike you. i didnt say it was doom and gloom but it is far from the rosy picture that you paint either especially ror those in the technology sector. then with his stand on the enviornment i simply have no respect for the man. you respect a guy who owns 3 autos that get less than 20mpg city ya mr. i dont own an suv the family has it kerry is really concerned about environment. what a hoot. lol can you possibly get any more desperate. gee what is going to cause more polution a suv or massive coal burning power plants that bush relaxed the emmissions restrictions on. i am not talking about investment dollars im talking about employment figures. the money of the 90s was from massive blind high risk investing. that money is what spurred the economy which includes increased employment. the way to return to that is to get people to invest billions just as stupidly as they did in the 90s. great economy hardly. it was doomed from the start. but unlike you blaming bush i do not credit nor blame clinton for the rise and predicted fall. you do realize the economy started falling under clintons watch since you seem to think the economy revolves around the president. the economy revolves around many things and the president is a part of it. not the main part but a part just the same. the more people that are employed and make and spend money the better that everyone does. right now it is turning into the very rich vs the very poor and no middle class. so just tax the hell out of the rich and hand it out to the poor right the rich are just cash cows you can take from whenever ya need a few extra $s right what an idiot. what does that have to do with the current state of our economy or even with what i said rather than bring down the top how about elevating the bottom taking from the rich and giving to the poor has never had any great positive effect on poverty. its only effect has been to oppress them further. but hey that gains votes right point out some real job growth that exceeds the long term and you win but i know that you cant do it. 1994 total employed was 121966000. in jan 2004 it was 138566000. 10 years increased every year. these numbers are adjusted for seasonal differences and population gains. i win. nope. try again. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

paul jensen wrote the problem is that good is bad for scary kerry and the libs. they need the economy to go to hell and that simply isnt happening. these people are cheering for bad . they want bad economic . they was the war on terror to go to hell. thats pretty sick when youre hoping for bad things to happen. thats bugs me too. these people want things to go south for political gains. its the down side to a two party system. both sides are guilty of that miles. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

then perhaps you should send a letter to your good buddy bush. it appears that is the way his campaign has now turned to that as well. just using scary kerrys own words. thats all thats needed to sink his campaign. now all of a sudden quoting a candidate is a dirty campaign. lol! please just more half-truths that many are beginning to see for what they are and btw a negative campaign is still a negative campaign regardless of bs justifications. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

hey we will have no damn on-topic posts in this thread - -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving http//www.gaspricewatch.com/usgasindex.asp bridgeport ca always seems to be the highest in the country today $2.69 for regular. el portal going into yosemite national park was at $2.79 for regular a couple of days ago. actually anywhere in california is high b .

From : jerry

tbone wrote just like those on the far right that are radical and wrong those like yourself on the far left are just as radical and wrong. problem is both sides are in the same boat but to bitter and stupid to realize they are rowing in opposite directions. another problem is that those that are on those extremes have no idea that they are much like yourself. you not only proved my point you just once again proved youre nothing but a common troll .......... lol funny when you make posts like this hell this one in fact it is ok but if anyone else does it they are just a troll. your level of denial is running deep. the above post was negative to both parties but you felt compelled to pop in and attempt a slap at me. yes i was correct you are a common troll. paul and miles try to post facts to you but you simply call them names and post no facts which is pretty much as you have done in all the other threads which btw you have had you ass kicked all over the place and it is no wonder you ran with your tail tucked between your legs when the heat was turned up. you are not only a common troll but not a very smart one at that. now go play in your sandbox little troll boy. jerry .

From : miles

tbone wrote where is all of this good most of it is just smoke and mirrors and it pissis the conservative when the smoke is blown away and people are reminded of the reality. well then i for one am living your smoke and mirros and loving it. business is going great. best its ever been. no they just want people to remember the way it really was for the last 3 years and not be blinded by some minor possibly short term up-swing. way it was people invested billions into worthless stocks. sure they made great money while people continued to invest. sooner or later those investments either have to pay off or the whole thing collapses. guess which one happened and you sit here and want a return to that .

From : miles

tbone wrote both sides are guilty of that miles. which side has the most to gain if the economy worsens which side would lose the most if the economy does well .

From : tbone

tbone wrote another problem is that those that are on those extremes have no idea that they are much like yourself. anyone that disagrees with you is an extremist lol when did i use that criteria jerry disagrees with just about everyone unless they are completely to the right including max. a radical is one that touts nearly 100% partyline antics regardless of the issue. agreed. look at those that routinly bash bush at all topics and praise kerry on anything he says even when bush and kerry are in agreement on a given issue. who in here does that there are some things i disagree with bush on and agree with kerry. really name a few. not so with most radicals they bash one side or the other regardless of the topic at hand. your are not getting an argument out of me but i am hardly one sided. hell i have been accused of being a conservative scumbag their words not mine by a few newbies in here a few years ago. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote oh please. i have no problem saying im against something hes done that disagrees with what i believe in. really name two. 1immigration 2abortion now lets here your list of things you agree with bush on. the fact that you consider me a radical lefty shows just how far to the right that you really are. rofl...i am a conservative and proud of it. but there are some traditionally liberal concepts i am in favor of. you on the other hand seem to love anything any dem leader says as long as it goes against what bush says. that is a radical lefty. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote both sides are guilty of that miles. which side has the most to gain if the economy worsens neither. which side would lose the most if the economy does well both. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

some probably are others are working in home depot loews and anywhere else they can find work and some just said fuck it and are home taking care of the kids while the other one works because they cant make enough money to offset the cost of daycare. any way you look at it miles there are still over 500000 jobs lost in this area alone. just supposing for a moment this is true lol it is true the numbers cannot lie and there is no fuzzy math here. then what are these people doing to make themselves more marketable to employers or to lenders if they want to start a business who knows if they even can. with the glutton of skilled people available in most markets due to the recession why would an employer hire a 50 year old who is just starting a new career when there are 15 35 year olds willing to do the job for less and with experience too. should the government been responsible for the unemployed carraige makers when the automobile came along if they were responsible for that change then possibly. with freedom comes individual responsibility. as good as that sounds it is complete bs. i went to college and got a bachelors degree in communications. ever since i was a kid i wanted to work in radio. to help me be more desirable to the industry i learned to be a broadcast engineer and got my license for that. but by the late 80s/early 90s i could see the handwriting on the wall. advancing technology combined with government deregulation was going to eliminate a helluva lot of jobs in my industry. back in the day one engineer might be responsible for 1-4 stations. i had been responsible for as many as 5 at one time by the end of my career. today that figure is more like 10-20 or more stations per engineer. do the math. there are a helluva lot of experienced broadcasters walking the streets these days not working in broadcasting. did i stay on until the bitter end take my chances then whine like a baby when i got downsized who said that everyone is whining. the difference here is that the same amount of people are still needed they are just choosing to go elseware for it and fuck the american worker and their famlies as long as the stock holders are happy and theyget their huge raises and bonuses.... no! i wasnt that stupid. i went back to school got an accounting degree and have worked in that field for the past 10+ years. do i miss broadcasting damn right i do. but i had to face reality and now i love what i do now. sooner or later people have to be responsible for the decisions they make and if theyre in an industry that is outsourcing or whatever you call it then they need to do something so they can adapt to changing conditions. now you do know that this is not even close to the same thing. not everybody has the resources that you seem to have to be able to go back to school again for another degree. then again did you do this during a recession where 500000 others in your profession all lost their jobs in less than two years with no real warning the problem with outsourcing is not just the jobs lost to it it is the jobs not being created here because of it. the funny thing is that by doing this these businesses are killing their own customer base because people without jobs or with low paying ones cant afford to but much. i hear all this whining about outsourcing but these people never mention insourcing. for example these people always seem to forget that an huge amount of japanese cars sold in this country and made here. same for the germans. why so you think that is. perhaps because japanies and german workers male almost as much as american ones and the cost of shipping makes it cheeper to build them here. but what about the electronics and clothing industries and now many of the tool industries. sorry charlie but there is much more going out than comming in and where exactly are all of these people going to go guess that doesnt count huh only when the numbers are even close to even and we both know that is not the case. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote read above. thats a guess. i want facts not your guesses. the weapons were there. we need to find them or their remants...period. lol that is impossible to do. because if they were we would have found them by now. huh they were there. youre saying that since we cant find them now then they never existed no what im saying is that they were either used destroyed or dumped into the desert and either way they are not ready dor use against us as was claimed by the president as one of the reasons for going to war.. sorry bonehead you cant rewrite what is fact. they were there. they still exist in some form or another. that does not mean that you would be able to identify any of it. and when they did we had a pretty good idea where they were and how many. funny how we cant find a single on of them now even in the areas that they would not let us look into before. that doesnt change the fact that they did indeed exist. they were photographed by the un in the 90s. you cant answer what happened to them except to say saddam disposed of them. ok then where did he dispose of them the remants would be identifiable. possibly none. how many cars are junked every year. can you find evidence of every one of them and that they were destroyed. hell cars are stolen and no sign of them is ever seen again. if they dont want you to find the remains you wont and that includes those wmds. and we have no evidence of their continued existance either. and thats acceptable to you far more acceptable than the children that will now have to grow up without their fathers because of this idiot of a president. we know they existed but since we cant find them now even remnants you just rewrite history and declare them to not exist there is no rewriting of history. the only ones doing that is our current presidential cabinet. they were claimed to have been destryed out president told us that was not true and that they were armed and at the ready to be used against us. now that we are there they were not used and cannot be found. many things that were thought to be mobile labs proved to be mobile water purification units. now we went there for humanitarian reasons. sounds like a little rewriting of history to me. the chemicals singly may serve other purposes or simply may have been destroyed or dumped in the desert. yep they could have been dumped. soil tests would confirm this. hahahahahahaha and this from someone who lives in the desert. one sand storm and you will never see it again. so far we havent found evidence of that. of course not. we are to busy protecting the oil$$$$$$ fields. until that happens i would rather assume they still exist than make your politically motivated assumption that they do not. and how many more parents will have to give up their children and how many more children will have to grow up without a parent before your paranoia is put to rest. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote tbone wrote both sides are guilty of that miles. which side has the most to gain if the economy worsens neither. ya sure. you dont think the election will be effected either way if the economy worsens or gains i dont think youre that naive. the economy is still not all that great so unless a massive improvement happens it will have little impact. the fact is that this president has had the worst job loss record ever including the great depression we have lost over 3.5 million jobs and many will probably never return. that looks like a lot of votes that he isnt gonna get this time around. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote just like those on the far right that are radical and wrong those like yourself on the far left are just as radical and wrong. problem is both sides are in the same boat but to bitter and stupid to realize they are rowing in opposite directions. another problem is that those that are on those extremes have no idea that they are much like yourself. you not only proved my point you just once again proved youre nothing but a common troll .......... lol funny when you make posts like this hell this one in fact it is ok but if anyone else does it they are just a troll. your level of denial is running deep. the above post was negative to both parties but you felt compelled to pop in and attempt a slap at me. how is the truth slap and iirc you were making the very same accusation to him along with your little two sides bs. yes i was correct you are a common troll. paul and miles try to post facts to you but you simply call them names lol care to show where i did that exactly what facts did they post this is exactly what i was talking about you claim miles and paul are trying to post facts which neither actually did because it goes along with your extreem right wing viewpoint and and accuse me of doing nothing but name calling when i was posting facts directly from the dol. and post no facts like i said you see only what you want to see which is the full blown trait of an extremist and also like i said you probably dont even know it. which is pretty much as you have done in all the other threads which btw you have had you ass kicked all over the place and it is no wonder you ran with your tail tucked between your legs when the heat was turned up. lol where did i run jerry when exactly did i get my ass kicked the one i see doing most of that is you and as far as getting my ass kicked only on that tiny little right wing mind. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

really please show me exactly where this happened. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tbone wrote look at those that routinly bash bush at all topics and praise kerry on anything he says even when bush and kerry are in agreement on a given issue. who in here does that lol...look in the mirror. .

From : milesh

tbone wrote kerry on the other hand doesnt alter because of changing conditions. he tosses something out sees what kind of reaction he gets and then alters his opinions based on it. rotflmao and you know this how the republican spin machine!!! no by listening to kerry himself. the guy doesnt stand for anything. once again you follow the spin machine so much for thinking for yourself. perhaps he changed his mind because he could and felt he needed to as more information became available to him. thinking men do that every now and then. thinking men he changes course on a whim. he simply doesnt stand for anything. because of information ya public opinion against him. he has no opinion on much of his own. and the moderate republicans know that bush is far from the best choice. dang we agree there. id rather see someone else but i cant vote for a person who lacks any central platform such as kerry. when is he going to start telling us about all his solutions to every major problem we face is he ever going to come up with a solid plan towards terrorism economics etc .

From : tbone

tbone wrote when we experience another terrorist attack here we will need them more than soldiers dying for nothing. there is no way to win a was against terror and if you believe so you really are an ignorant person. ah so we just cave in hire more firefighters and sit back and wait till theyre needed. good plan. thats the dems platform strategy who said anything about caving in the reason that we dont hire more firefighters is due to the combination of a huge war expense and irresponsible tax cuts that do nothing to help the average american. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

no i am just tired of hearing bs form the right praising bush and claiming that the loss of our jobs to third world economies is that why toyota is build all of their north american sold trucks and 80% of their north american cars in the u.s. thats insourcing boy. go back to third grade. our entire electronics industry has been outsourced an ever-growing percentage of our manufacturing most of our clothing and now a ever growing percentage of our computer and information sectors. as for the auto-industry ho much of that has gone to canada and mexico insourcing is only helpful when the percentage coming in is at least close to what is going out and since that is not happening or even close it seems that the one that needs to back to the third grade is you. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

names dude lets here some names. now how about congressman or presidential elections. i bet you just go right down the party line. i know this was directed at miles but i will tell you i have voted for democrats as diverse as jesse jackson lawton chiles and bob graham. but i am a right-winger only or so you say. jesse jackson exactly when did you do that -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

again all you can think of is the vote. if the economy does well we all benefit ummm....scary kerry doesnt. if the economy does well his chances of being elected are nil. are you really so stupid that you dont understand this if you think that the economy is the only point that bush has to worry about the only stupid one here is you. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

jeff mayner wrote calling themselves republican still think wmd has been found in iraq and wmds were found in the 1990s. so what that was over 10 years ago. when inspectors returned those that they had inventoried photographed and tagged were no longer there. because he was told to dispose of them. and document that disposal. which he didnt do. if he did dispose of them why the hell wouldnt he provide the proof. if he did hed still be in power and uday and kuday would still be slicing people up in their shredder. he didnt do it because he couldnt. with all of the shit that he did like your example above if the people that he did this too knew for a fact that he didnt have these weapons they would be on him like white on rice. as long as people thought he had them it was as good as if he did. then there is that macho thing where if he listened to others he would be thought of as weak. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote kerry on the other hand doesnt alter because of changing conditions. he tosses something out sees what kind of reaction he gets and then alters his opinions based on it. rotflmao and you know this how the republican spin machine!!! no by listening to kerry himself. oh really and when did you do that it looks more like you listened to him through the republican spin machine. the guy doesnt stand for anything. once again you follow the spin machine so much for thinking for yourself. perhaps he changed his mind because he could and felt he needed to as more information became available to him. thinking men do that every now and then. thinking men he changes course on a whim. lol please give some non spin machine examples. he simply doesnt stand for anything. because of information ya public opinion against him. now here is the funny thing about that he is supposed to do that to some degree. he is a public servant and was elected to represent the people. you cannot do that and ignore them although bush is trying like hell. he has no opinion on much of his own. his opinion means little it is the will of the people that he is elected to represent and protect. now sometimes that does mean looking toward the future and not always doing what the people think that they want but until the decision is made... then again we have a president that likes to say one thing and mean another or change the facts when it suites his needs and perhaps that changing information just might have something to do with it. and the moderate republicans know that bush is far from the best choice. dang we agree there. id rather see someone else but i cant vote for a person who lacks any central platform such as kerry. well since he hasnt created one yet how do you know. i would rather have someone that can change his mind when the facts show that he is wrong than what we have now. it is really getting to be anyone but bush. when is he going to start telling us about all his solutions to every major problem we face is he ever going to come up with a solid plan towards terrorism economics etc once he has the official nomination and not before. that is the way it always was and always will be. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote who said anything about caving in the reason that we dont hire more firefighters is due to the combination of a huge war expense and irresponsible tax cuts that do nothing to help the average american. bull. i am the average american you speak of. they helped me both directly and indirectly. you keep buying your left propaganda that the tax cuts were just for the rich. look up the % of total taxes paid nationally by income groups. youll see the top groups now pay a higher % of the total not lower as youre lied to believe. sure they pay lower than before most everyone is. difficult to cut taxes if you dont pay them. .

From : miles

tbone wrote thats a guess. i want facts not your guesses. the weapons were there. we need to find them or their remants...period. lol that is impossible to do. why impossible to find out what happened to weapons that were 100% proven to exist im talking about the weapons the un in the 90s did find inventoried photographed and tagged but did not destroy. no what im saying is that they were either used destroyed or dumped into the desert more guesses by you again. you do not know what happened to them. you are assuming that since we cant find them then they no longer exist. thats complete bs. remants would still be identifiable. i want proof that they no longer exist rather than accept your baseless guess. that does not mean that you would be able to identify any of it. bull. chemicals are identifiable if they were dumped in the ground somewhere. missle parts would be identifiable even in fragments. you really should learn more about forensics. funny how we cant find a single on of them now even in the areas that not funny at all. iraq had many months of advance warning. since we know they did exist then it is physically impossible for them to now not exist in some form or another. possibly none. how many cars are junked every

From : miles

of every one of them and that they were destroyed. lol @ your weak analogy. yes many crimes have been solved through forensic evidence of junked cars. hell cars are stolen and no sign of them is ever seen again. lol...ya and in your twisted world since we cant find the stolen car that means it no longer exists. far more acceptable than the children that will now have to grow up without their fathers because of this idiot of a president. ah yes the old liberal ploy of bringing up children and play on emotions. ya that solves lots of problems. there is no rewriting of history. the only ones doing that is our current presidential cabinet. they were claimed to have been destryed claimed by whom saddam he was instructed to allow witness to their destruction. he did no such thing. so you just take saddams word for it. good plan. yep they could have been dumped. soil tests would confirm this. hahahahahahaha and this from someone who lives in the desert. one sand storm and you will never see it again. muhahaha...and this from someone who doesnt live in the desert chemicals do not just blow away. you really need to learn about what can be done through forensics. of course not. we are to busy protecting the oil$$$$$$ fields. ah yes the old war for oil theory again. same story we heard 12 years ago during desert storm. nothing to back it up with but go ahead and rant as always. and how many more parents will have to give up their children and how many more children will have to grow up without a parent before your paranoia is put to rest. rofl...two attempts at bringing up children to play on emotions for political reasons. are adults worth less than children in a radical lefties mind . 222 282179 pmijc.1766$6l3.965@fed1read05 tbone wrote i do know what they want and no army is going to stop it. ahh so give up and just let them attack since theres nothing we can do about it anyways. good plan. when he get hit again who is going to save the lives of people here thats the plan focus on what to do after an attack rather than prevent it to begin with good plan. .

From : miles

tbone wrote our entire electronics industry has been outsourced bull. the low paying jobs in the industry have been outsourced. higher paying jobs have stayed or been insourced. as for the auto-industry ho much of that has gone to canada and mexico how much has been insourced some manufacturing jobs have been outsourced but that has allowed lower prices here. that allows other related industries to expand from increased sales. insourcing is only helpful when the percentage coming in is at least close to what is going out how have you measured this i know...a guess. how many employees in the usa work for a foriegn owned corporation lets hear your solution to deal with outsourcing. .

From : miles

tbone wrote his opinion means little it is the will of the people that he is elected to represent and protect. now sometimes that does mean looking toward the future and not always doing what the people think that they want but until the decision is made... oh now thats a good one. politicians arent supposed to stand for anything. they just say vote for me and ill do whatever ya want. at least you admit kerry doesnt stand for anything...ya so lets vote for him and hope he does what we want. rofl...thats too funny. then again we have a president that likes to say one thing and mean another or change the facts when it suites his needs and perhaps that changing information just might have something to do with it. has kerry said anything that reflects what he has done over the years heck no his history in politics is opposite that of his current speaches. he lacks credibility to carry out what he now speaks of. his voting record doesnt match. i rather rely on what he has done than believe what he says he will do. well since he hasnt created one yet how do you know. rofl...at least you admit he has no platform. you just vote and hope good plan. once he has the official nomination and not before. that is the way it always was and always will be. bull. almost every candidate prior has stated his opinions on major issues prior to the convention. they have always stated their opinions on solutions to major issues. they dont do as kerry has and just answer questions on issues with ill have to get back to you on that. .

From : miles

tbone wrote really how and i do want specifics in areas not the actual dollars if we now have less fire fighters and police how are we really helped. well now. it appears you have defined what is helped as the number of police or firefighters. and you keep generating the right wing hype that they help everyone. in the long run they have helped the country as a whole. you really think that when the economy is as bad as you say it would be better with higher taxes thats laughable. oh boy here we go with the fuzzy math again. people just love to use percentages because they can be made as misleading as necessary. fuzzy math sorry that percentages confuse you but they are real. the lowest income people dont pay taxes because they cant afford to. the problem is that when irresponsible tax cuts like these are created they have to be paid for. an easy way to do it is to cut state aid such as to schools roads and the needy. now the states need to recoup some of this money and they do it by raising taxes and fees and cutting aid. the funny thing is that these increases cost the poor much more than they got from the tax cut. spending must be cut. no matter where it is cut someone will bear the loss. so nobody wants to cut. you liberals solution is to find a cash cow instead of cutting. that cash cow has always been the wealthy. there is no limit. you want more money you go take it again and again. punish people for being successfull. the wealthy are by far the greatest supporters of charitable organizations that help the needy. what would be completely irresponsible is a large tax hike when the economy is as bad as you say. you cant recover from a recession through high taxes. even though you refuse to admit it the economy is growing rapidly. as it does more taxes will be paid without the need for massive tax hikes. let the people keep their money they earned. .

From : miles

tbone wrote tbone wrote both sides are guilty of that miles. which side has the most to gain if the economy worsens neither. ya sure. you dont think the election will be effected either way if the economy worsens or gains i dont think youre that naive. .

From : jeff mayner

jerry wrote jeff mayner wrote you guys crack me up. how much truth has to be paraded before you before youll realize the unprecedented criminality of the present administration well one thing is for sure he wont get it from you. just like those on the far right that are radical and wrong those like yourself on the far left are just as radical and wrong. problem is both sides are in the same boat but to bitter and stupid to realize they are rowing in opposite directions. where do you get the idea that i am a radical lefty because i see whats going on with the present administration this group has real conservatives shaking in their boots. not that youll care i voted for reagan in 84 i know silly me and harry browne in 92 and 96. i knew clinton was going to win california dems always do so i tried to help the libertarian party to get matching funds. i disagreed with several things clinton did but sex with a willing intern wasnt one of them. gingrich with his contract on america and the co-opting of the party by these whackos in the whitehouse have forced me to think abb anybody but bush. i have always voted for who i thought would be the best for this country at any given time no matter the party. i actually thought that bush-1 was a better pick than dukakis. after watching the bush-2 administration rape and pillage for three years i think its time for some relief. honestly can you really look at the present administrations record and tell me that theyve done a good job is the country better off than 4 years ago terrorism aside and right about now bush cant even use his record on terrorism as a plus his admin has been an absolute disaster. jeff jerry .

From : jeff mayner

milesh wrote tbone wrote another problem is that those that are on those extremes have no idea that they are much like yourself. anyone that disagrees with you is an extremist a radical is one that touts nearly 100% partyline antics regardless of the issue. look at those that routinly bash bush at all topics and praise kerry on anything he says even when bush and kerry are in agreement on a given issue. there are some things i disagree with bush on and agree with kerry. not so with most radicals they bash one side or the other regardless of the topic at hand. didnt this thread start with a rightwing person asserting the faked picture of kerry and fonda was real or was that another tread im getting confused. ;- jeff .

From : jeff mayner

paul jensen wrote once again stop for your own sake watching and listening to the terrible trio hannity limbaugh and oreilly. this is another item that the right attack machine distorted yelled and screamed for a day or two and when it was shown to be untrue let it drop as if they had never heard of it. of course they never told thier listeners/watchers the truth. so why dont you share with us your version of the truth did you read the above the above listed personalities have made their living by using lies and distortion to twist the truth. why do you think that when cornered they immediately pull out the were entertainers not line they rarely follow up on their assertions. thus 60% of those calling themselves republican still think wmd has been found in iraq and hussein was a 911 conspiritor. california must have more even-handed republicans than other parts of the country. most repubs i know are not of the above discredited opinions. actually most i know wish there was another choice intead of bush. so do i. jeff .

From : miles

jeff mayner wrote didnt this thread start with a rightwing person asserting the faked picture of kerry and fonda was real or was that another tread im getting confused. ;- nobody asserted any such thing. a pic of the two was mentioned and it was pointed out that one pic was faked and one pic was real. .

From : miles

tbone wrote because he was told to dispose of them. lol...and you just take his word for it i for one would like some evidence of their disposal. if he did destroy them he could have provide some proof of their remains. he told the un he would not do that. saddam did not disclose them in his declaration nor provide any evidence as to their destruction. because he couldnt and bush knew that. and just why couldnt saddam provide any evidence of the known wmds disposal some may have been used and others destroyed. any way you look at it they are not available and ready for use like the bush administration claimed. and you know this how heck we found jets buried in the sand and the only way they were found was by locals disclosing them. theres alot of sand to search and weve barely scratched the total area of iraq so far let alone syria. lol more senseless spin. you assume facts not in evidence and then make accusations that you can in no way back up. rofl...you mean if i cant find you then you never existed or no longer do now thats the spin you radical lefties are trying to spin. the fact is they did exist. the fact is we have no evidence of their destruction. the fact is that they exist in some form either intact or in pieces. the fact is that any remains would be identifiable. .

From : miles

jeff mayner wrote honestly can you really look at the present administrations record and tell me that theyve done a good job is the country better off than 4 years ago terrorism aside and right about now bush cant even use his record on terrorism as a plus his admin has been an absolute disaster. as seen by radical lefties. most do not understand economics. especially as to what caused the market rise in the 90s and what caused the economy to start its downturn in 2000. they blame or credit whomever is in office at the time. pure partisan politics rather than any real understanding. bush was handed a bad hand. the economy was falling when he took office. it is now growing rapidly. .

From : miles

jeff mayner wrote calling themselves republican still think wmd has been found in iraq and wmds were found in the 1990s. when inspectors returned those that they had inventoried photographed and tagged were no longer there. saddam did not disclose them in his declaration nor provide any evidence as to their destruction. so the question isnt if he had them it is where are they now they existed so they must exist in some form somewhere but dems could careless. .

From : paul jensen

paul jensen wrote once again stop for your own sake watching and listening to the terrible trio hannity limbaugh and oreilly. this is another item that the right attack machine distorted yelled and screamed for a day or two and when it was shown to be untrue let it drop as if they had never heard of it. of course they never told thier listeners/watchers the truth. so why dont you share with us your version of the truth did you read the above the above listed personalities have made their living by using lies and distortion to twist the truth. why do you think that when cornered they immediately pull out the were entertainers not line they rarely follow up on their assertions. thus 60% of those calling themselves republican still think wmd has been found in iraq and hussein was a 911 conspiritor. ummm..i didnt ask you about rush limbaugh sean hannity or any other radio talk host. i asked you to tell us your version of the truth about scary kerry and his support for a $0.50 per gallon tax increase in 1993. i have reserched this. have you or are you just calling every talk show host you dont agree with a liar we now know you do not consider mobile chemical labs a wmd but thats o.k. - an iq test is not needed to be on the internet. you can stay. by the way what was the connection between germany and japan in ww2 did germany attack the u.s. .

From : miles

tbone wrote once again you make claims you cannot hope to back up. i have voted for republicans in the past. can you make that claim about democrats of course not. yep i have voted for dems many times. here in az the reps have done a horrible job and it cost them. ex-rep. gov. ed mecham used state funds for his own personal use millions and was impeached ex-rep. gov. fife simington is a convicted felon and was tossed out of office. we now have a dem. gov. although shes not going to last long with her very gray davis method of politics. none the less i favor many dems here over the dismal reps weve had. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote our entire electronics industry has been outsourced bull. the low paying jobs in the industry have been outsourced. higher paying jobs have stayed or been insourced. lol i see that the conservative spin machine is in high gear. while some of the higher paying jobs have stayed management what happens to all of the people here who worked those lower paying jobs and dont give me the wight wing spin that they will move up to those higher paying jobs because they simply dont exist. as for the auto-industry ho much of that has gone to canada and mexico how much has been insourced far less than has been outsourced. some manufacturing jobs have been outsourced but that has allowed lower prices here. that allows other related industries to expand from increased sales. that is yet another myth. how do you get increased sales when your customer base in unemployed. btw how many companies actually lowered prices after shifting their point of production to another country they dont do it to lower prices they do it to increase profits only. insourcing is only helpful when the percentage coming in is at least close to what is going out how have you measured this i know...a guess. how many employees in the usa work for a foriegn owned corporation you are the one talking about all this insourcing. where is it you keep going on about the automotive industry so how many cars are built completely in the us. how many are even fully assembled here anymore lets hear your solution to deal with outsourcing. simple make it somewhat unproffitable to do it if your outsourced employment exceeds a certain percentage. hell japan has put maassive restrictions on us for what we can import. it is about time we begin doing the same thing. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote lol i see that the conservative spin machine is in high gear. while some of the higher paying jobs have stayed management what happens to all of the people here who worked those lower paying jobs and dont give me the wight wing spin that they will move up to those higher paying jobs because they simply dont exist. lol lefty spin at its worst. if they didnt outsource the company cant remain competitive and shuts down. guess what happens to the jobs if they do outsource the low paying jobs the company stays in business. sales allow more jobs than just your management. what about sales force packaging distribution what about indirect labor boosts at wholesalers and retailers the choice is to lose it all or lose some and gain in others. so you take the lose everything approach good plan. that is yet another myth. how do you get increased sales when your customer base in unemployed. it is their main customers are the companies own employees oh now thats funny but creative spin!! btw how many companies actually lowered prices after shifting their point of production to another country their prices are lower than if they continued to try to remain competative without outsourcing the low end jobs. they dont do it to lower prices they do it to increase profits only. increased or just hold onto the margins they have as labor costs go up somethings gotta give. either profits go down or costs have to be cut. i know all companies are greedy cash cows that just want more and more. the liberal spin. you are the one talking about all this insourcing. where is it you keep going on about the automotive industry so how many cars are built completely in the us. how many are even fully assembled here anymore quite a number of them. my two nissans were american designed and built. my dodge on the other hand was entirely made in mexico. simple make it somewhat unproffitable to do it if your outsourced employment exceeds a certain percentage. hell japan has put maassive restrictions on us for what we can import. it is about time we begin doing the same thing. you seem to think a companies sales are only in this country. these companies outsource so they remain competitive not only in the usa but also worldwide. look at why steel prices are sky high now. in an effort to save steel workers jobs high tarrifs were enacted on steel. sure it helped their job but has severely hurt others. you dont think high steel prices have hurt the industrial manufacturing market .

From : tbone

tbone wrote who said anything about caving in the reason that we dont hire more firefighters is due to the combination of a huge war expense and irresponsible tax cuts that do nothing to help the average american. bull. i am the average american you speak of. they helped me both directly and indirectly. really how and i do want specifics in areas not the actual dollars if we now have less fire fighters and police how are we really helped. you keep buying your left propaganda that the tax cuts were just for the rich. and you keep generating the right wing hype that they help everyone. look up the % of total taxes paid nationally by income groups. youll see the top groups now pay a higher % of the total not lower as youre lied to believe. oh boy here we go with the fuzzy math again. people just love to use percentages because they can be made as misleading as necessary. sure they pay lower than before most everyone is. difficult to cut taxes if you dont pay them. the lowest income people dont pay taxes because they cant afford to. the problem is that when irresponsible tax cuts like these are created they have to be paid for. an easy way to do it is to cut state aid such as to schools roads and the needy. now the states need to recoup some of this money and they do it by raising taxes and fees and cutting aid. the funny thing is that these increases cost the poor much more than they got from the tax cut. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote it is a much better plan than sending in outr army to get our boys killed and have no defence here when it does happen. lol...typical lefty. never a solution only say whats wrong. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote i do know what they want and no army is going to stop it. ahh so give up and just let them attack since theres nothing we can do about it anyways. good plan. no army is going to stop it and money can be spent in better places to reduce the risk and minimize the damage when it does happen. when he get hit again who is going to save the lives of people here thats the plan focus on what to do after an attack rather than prevent it to begin with good plan. it is a much better plan than sending in outr army to get our boys killed and have no defence here when it does happen. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote thats a guess. i want facts not your guesses. the weapons were there. we need to find them or their remants...period. lol that is impossible to do. why impossible to find out what happened to weapons that were 100% proven to exist im talking about the weapons the un in the 90s did find inventoried photographed and tagged but did not destroy. big deal i guess that the word destroyed has a different meaning in your world. btw lets see some links to this tagged inventory you keep talking about. no what im saying is that they were either used destroyed or dumped into the desert more guesses by you again. you do not know what happened to them. you are assuming that since we cant find them then they no longer exist. if we cannot even find them after all of this time then they were not ready to be used on anyone never mind us. the fact is that if they cannot be found then they probably do no longer exist. thats complete bs. remants would still be identifiable. i want proof that they no longer exist rather than accept your baseless guess. but the type of proof that you want may be impossible to get and in a few months it will be impossible to get. the fact that we can find no trace of them may be all that you get. lets just hope that he didnt give them to someone that will use them against us in retaliation for our unprovoked attack on his country. that does not mean that you would be able to identify any of it. bull. chemicals are identifiable if they were dumped in the ground somewhere. missle parts would be identifiable even in fragments. you really should learn more about forensics. hahahahaha i like talking to you miles you make me laugh. the first thing in forensic sciences is knowing where to look. we have no idea. chemicals break down when exposed to air heat light ect.. parts are not always identifiable and who said that the wmds were missiles. missiles are only transportation devices and the wmds are the warheads. chemical weapons are simple and the parts can be used for many things that are not so easily identifiable if destroyed. funny how we cant find a single on of them now even in the areas that not funny at all. iraq had many months of advance warning. and the inspectors were there at the time. those many months would have been used to get tehm ready for use on our troops and that didnt happen either. gee i wonder why not. since we know they did exist then it is physically impossible for them to now not exist in some form or another. lol that doesnt mean that you will ever identify or even locate any of the parts. possibly none. how many cars are junked every year. can you find evidence of every one of them and that they were destroyed. lol @ your weak analogy. yes many crimes have been solved through forensic evidence of junked cars. lol nice spin but that is not what i asked. please provide evidence remains proving the existance of every 73 lime green pinto that ford produced. they were all tagged and nobody is trying to hide them so by your reasoning it should be easy. hell cars are stolen and no sign of them is ever seen again. lol...ya and in your twisted world since we cant find the stolen car that means it no longer exists. in most cases that is correct not as a car anyway. the point is that things can be destroyed and no evidence will ever be found. far more acceptable than the children that will now have to grow up without their fathers because of this idiot of a president. ah yes the old liberal ploy of bringing up children and play on emotions. ya that solves lots of problems. it solves nothing but brings too light the cost of some of the things that we do and makes people wonder if it was really worth it. i must really suck to get your head pulled out of the sand and into the light of day that way. there is no rewriting of history. the only ones doing that is our current presidential cabinet. they were claimed to have been destryed claimed by whom saddam he was instructed to allow witness to their destruction. he did no such thing. so you just take saddams word for it. good plan. his word currently seems to be better than our presidents since they are still nowhere to be found. i noticed that you magically deleted the part about the new main focus for the attack that appeared from the right wing when the wmds were not lying around waiting for us to discover. yep they could have been dumped. soil tests would confirm this. hahahahahahaha and this from someone who lives in the desert. one sand storm and you will never see it again. muhahaha...and this from someone who doesnt live in the desert chemicals do not just blow away. actually yes some do exactly that. others soak into the sand and a good sand storm will either disperse them to much or bury them too d

From : tbone

tbone wrote if we cannot even find them after all of this time then they were not ready to be used on anyone never mind us. the fact is that if they cannot be found then they probably do no longer exist. all this time iraq is as big as california. it would be simple to hide tons of chemicals and other weapons in california and you could not find them. lol california is not a huge wasteland that we have under almost constant surveillance. how would they find them if they were hidden so well without maps that we should have found by now unless of course they were also destroyed. but the type of proof that you want may be impossible to get and in a few months it will be impossible to get. the fact that we can find no trace of them may be all that you get. lets just hope that he didnt give them to someone that will use them against us in retaliation for our unprovoked attack on his country. i hope that he didnt give them to syria or someone else as well. thats why we need to find what happened to them rather than use your illogical conclusion that they just do not exist anywhere. and how are you going to do that. do we invade syria next under suspicion only hahahahaha i like talking to you miles you make me laugh. the first thing in forensic sciences is knowing where to look. we have no idea. chemicals break down when exposed to air heat light ect.. oh my. now youre grasping on your lack of knowledge on chemistry. are you a chemist now miles we are not talking about elements here miles. these chemicals are effective because disperse into the air to kill things. sure you have to know where to look. iraq is a huge place. they did exist they are somewhere in some form. we need to know for certain that they pose no threat. but once again you may not be able to do it and come the end of june it supposed to be over anyway. and the inspectors were there at the time. and saddam played the same games with them as he did for the past 12 years. yawn who do you think were the people that you claimed tagged and inventoried them to begin with. those many months would have been used to get tehm ready for use on our troops and that didnt happen either. gee i wonder why not. thats your evidence that they do not exist that he didnt use them yes because we know that he will and not care about what happens to his own people in the process. thats a theory not proof. the same can be said about your insistance that the wmds still exist. because of ppl like yourself saddam won more by not using them than if he had. lol that makes no sense at all. we know he had them we know he used them before. i want to know what happened to the ones that remained and prove that they are not a threat to anyone anymore. something that simple may prove to be impossible to do and at what cost. i do think that is of concern to most liberals as well but partisan politica gets in the way. no common sense gets in the way. the partisan politics go just as deeply on the conservative side with this desire to find those wmds at any cost and not because they are a threat but to prove that the president made the right choice after all and should be re-elected. tell me something miles how many of our young men and women is it worth for you to get him re-elected lol that doesnt mean that you will ever identify or even locate any of the parts. it doesnt mean we shouldnt keep looking either. youre right we may never find them. but that doesnt mean they do not exist because they most certainly did. how many lifes is it worth to you to do it lol nice spin but that is not what i asked. please provide evidence remains proving the existance of every 73 lime green pinto that ford produced. they were all tagged and nobody is trying to hide them so by your reasoning it should be easy. spin look in at your above mess of an analogy. it is no such thing. your claim is that if something existed then parts of it will always exist and can be identified through forensics. i scalled it down to a specific year and color which should make it all the easier for you to do but instead you call it spin because you know that you are full of it and that it is impossibe. in most cases that is correct not as a car anyway. the point is that things can be destroyed and no evidence will ever be found. so based on that you just accept a lunitics word that he destroyed them and left no trace difficult to find yes. impossible no. lol there is a fine line between those two words. i noticed that you magically deleted the part about the new main focus for the attack that appeared from the right wing when the wmds were not lying around waiting for us to discover. new focus rofl!! wmds were not the first reason given for going into iraq. lol they were the only reason. sure we also u

From : tbone

tbone wrote it is a much better plan than sending in outr army to get our boys killed and have no defence here when it does happen. lol...typical lefty. never a solution only say whats wrong. typical rightly still no solution and refuse to admit to whats wrong. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote we need to be prepared for it and do what we can to prevent it. our army cannot do it alone. thats kerrys plan to fight terrorism be prepared hmm...was kerry a boyscout are you saying that nothing has changed and that we live in the same world today as we did 10 or 20 or even 5 years ago sure it changes. so what do we have to go by to vote for kerry he has decades of political history that shows what he stands for. now in the course of 1 year everything he has done for 30+ years is tossed out how about the national democratic convention then there will be the debates. plenty of time to see what they both are made of although bush has already done a good job of that and even you think he is not the best choice. so why is kerry campaigning at all why not wait until after the convention since according to you he cant tell us what he stands for today nor any of his opinions on what we should do about terrorism economy etc. thats the good thing he doesnt need one yet and his current concerns are valid. yes he needs to take a stand on issues yet. at least you admit his current speaches are about nothing since he hasnt gotten around to taking a stand on issues yet. 1. keeping jobs in this country so that everyone has the opportunity to work by having high tarrifs all that does

From : milesh

tougher than that and should not have failed this early. if it had happened at the end of the warranty term instead of early-mid they may have denied the claim. but you said you would have stated it on the warranty claim. now you say you did yet as weve seen from mike and others manufacturers regularly educate their dealer network about what voids a claim and what to reject. it is a case of cya. at the service training seminars they will often bring out some real red herrings. ok but if its cya they couldnt be too off track. they must be cya for a reason. yup im so full of it you repeated most of what ive said including repeating verbatim what ive said about warranty responsibility. no maxi - you just read what you want to hear. i read what you typed. if you arent saying what you want to be or you are repeating what i said then its your problem. in the mean time according to what youve said im not full of it. max good bye max. life liberty and the pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. embellished usnavy slogan . 222 282231 c6m2r2$qe6@dispatch.concentric.net tbone wrote lol california is not a huge wasteland that we have under almost constant surveillance. how would they find them if they were hidden so well without maps that we should have found by now unless of course they were also destroyed. ah we should have found the treasure map where x marks the spot. dang i didnt know it was so easy to search an area the size of california. and how are you going to do that. do we invade syria next under suspicion only na we just do as you say and assume they just vanished without any proof. are you a chemist now miles we are not talking about elements here miles. these chemicals are effective because disperse into the air to kill things. some yes some no. doesnt matter though. it only takes a minuscule ppm of a chemical to find traces of it in soil samples. but once again you may not be able to do it and come the end of june it supposed to be over anyway. no its not. you need to read up on what the roles of the interim gov. and the us forces will be. were not leaving on july 1st. yawn who do you think were the people that you claimed tagged and inventoried them to begin with. yep and saddam moved them somewhere. we need to find out where. the same can be said about your insistance that the wmds still exist. not so. they do exist in some form. you found a way to destroy matter because of ppl like yourself saddam won more by not using them than if he had. lol that makes no sense at all. only to a radical lefty. saddam won by far more by not using them. he played his games with the un and the world and won. just as he did for the past 12 years. something that simple may prove to be impossible to do and at what cost. possibly. but ppl like you just assumed from the start that they never even existed which we know is false...well most knowledgeable ppl do. no common sense gets in the way. the partisan politics go just as deeply on the conservative side with this desire to find those wmds at any cost not so at all. i could care less about the election ramifications. i want to know where the weapons that were known to exist are. that is important to many and for good reason. tell me something miles how many of our young men and women is it worth for you to get him re-elected try asking a straight question rather than adding your political jab in. how many lifes is it worth to you to do it that question could be asked about any war. its a pointless question. did anyone answer that question during wwii it is no such thing. your claim is that if something existed then parts of it will always exist and can be identified through forensics. i scalled it down to a specific year and color which should make it all the easier for you to do but instead you call it spin because you know that you are full of it and that it is impossibe. rofl...scale it down rofl. were not looking for one specific weapon. were looking for any of the ones known to have existed. lol they were the only reason. oh gads how arrogant the radical lefties are!! only reason my arse. thats too funny. go do some reading. especially some of the politicians first public statements about going to war. include what almost all dem leaders said as well. muhaha. because they both knew where to look and what they were looking for. are these the exact same chemicals that iraq used and is iraq and afghanistan geographically identical or even comparable actually yes. test in afganistan did show the type of chemicals and process used is identical to that used in iraq. csi not familiar with that. is that a tv show lol yea right. ok ill bite. what is csi i do not watch much tv. nothing good on. how many teams and companies from other countries were involved

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol california is not a huge wasteland that we have under almost constant surveillance. how would they find them if they were hidden so well without maps that we should have found by now unless of course they were also destroyed. ah we should have found the treasure map where x marks the spot. dang i didnt know it was so easy to search an area the size of california. if they are hidden so well how do you think that they are going to find them again with allahs help and how are you going to do that. do we invade syria next under suspicion only na we just do as you say and assume they just vanished without any proof. that is not an answer to the question. just more lame spin on your part. are you a chemist now miles we are not talking about elements here miles. these chemicals are effective because disperse into the air to kill things. some yes some no. doesnt matter though. it only takes a minuscule ppm of a chemical to find traces of it in soil samples. you keep talking soil when in reality you should be talking sand. soil tends to stay where it is at least the lower clay while sand blows and shifts or did you not see the sand storms that our soldiers are dealing with. but once again you may not be able to do it and come the end of june it supposed to be over anyway. no its not. you need to read up on what the roles of the interim gov. and the us forces will be. were not leaving on july 1st. no but we will no longer be in full control either and will no longer be able to go anywhere we want anytime that we want. yawn who do you think were the people that you claimed tagged and inventoried them to begin with. yep and saddam moved them somewhere. we need to find out where. moved them sold them or destroyed them. before the war they were no threat to us but now.... the same can be said about your insistance that the wmds still exist. not so. they do exist in some form. you found a way to destroy matter nope but it is easy to change it to something that you will not be able to either identify or locate. because of ppl like yourself saddam won more by not using them than if he had. lol that makes no sense at all. only to a radical lefty. saddam won by far more by not using them. he played his games with the un and the world and won. just as he did for the past 12 years. lol it looks like it is you that needs to do some reading. what exactly did he win something that simple may prove to be impossible to do and at what cost. possibly. but ppl like you just assumed from the start that they never even existed which we know is false...well most knowledgeable ppl do. i said no such thing. but they were harmless to us had not been used for some time which would indicate that they were no imminent danger to anyone else. like you said they were used by saddam to keep his enemies from attacking his which is why he could not give proof that they were gone. as long as his enemies thought of the possibility of their existance he was safe. no common sense gets in the way. the partisan politics go just as deeply on the conservative side with this desire to find those wmds at any cost not so at all. i could care less about the election ramifications. well thats a good thing since you are not running for office. that is not the case for the president. i want to know where the weapons that were known to exist are. that is important to many and for good reason. such as tell me something miles how many of our young men and women is it worth for you to get him re-elected try asking a straight question rather than adding your political jab in. it is not a political jab and im asking you not the president. lets have a number. how many lifes is it worth to you to do it that question could be asked about any war. its a pointless question. did anyone answer that question during wwii it is not a pointless question and many did ask. the difference was that we didnt start it and the countries that we were fighting did have the power to take over the world. neither is true with our war with iraq. this was will simply serve no purpose. it is no such thing. your claim is that if something existed then parts of it will always exist and can be identified through forensics. i scalled it down to a specific year and color which should make it all the easier for you to do but instead you call it spin because you know that you are full of it and that it is impossibe. rofl...scale it down rofl. were not looking for one specific weapon. were looking for any of the ones known to have existed. then that would make it harder. im trying to make this easy for you to show what a complete load of crap what you are saying actually is. lol they were the only reason. oh gads how arrogant the radical lefties are!!

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol sorry spinmaster that is not what i said. of course thay need to stand for something and your saying that kerry doesnt is nothing more than your typical right wing spin. he doesnt stand for anything. whats his view towards terrorism wait let me rephrase that. what is his view this month towards terrorism and how to deal with it we need to be prepared for it and do what we can to prevent it. our army cannot do it alone. heck no his history in politics is opposite that of his current speaches. really what does that even mean his decades of voting records are opposite of what hes been ranting at his campaign speaches. are you saying that nothing has changed and that we live in the same world today as we did 10 or 20 or even 5 years ago more right wing babble. lol...whenever you having nothing to say you toss out words likse spin and babble! too funny. nothing different than you oh wait a minute you just delete it or say that ppl already know it without ever backing anything up. vote on what i dont recall an election yet. ah we have to wait until election day to see what kerry stands for good plan. how about the national democratic convention then there will be the debates. plenty of time to see what they both are made of although bush has already done a good job of that and even you think he is not the best choice. and so has kerry despite your spin. no he hasnt. whats kerrys plan to fight terrorism this month whats his economic plan he hasnt taken a stand on much of anything. thats the good thing he doesnt need one yet and his current concerns are valid. what do we do when we get hit again and to think that we wont is just stupid and arrogant. lol yet more spin. you must be getting dizzy by now. he is better than our current president ya know your only answer is better than our current president. because just about anyone could be. iows kerry cant stand on his own. i asked about kerry. what does he stand for 1. keeping jobs in this country so that everyone has the opportunity to work 2. making responsible tax cuts that do more besides make the rich even richer 3. shoring up defenses against terrorists here to minimize damage when we do get hit there are others but the whole platform will be known at the democratic convention. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote you keep talking soil when in reality you should be talking sand. soil tends to stay where it is at least the lower clay while sand blows and shifts or did you not see the sand storms that our soldiers are dealing with. all of iraq isnt sand dunes. not even close. but if they did bury something in sand it wouldnt just be on the surface area. moved them sold them or destroyed them. before the war they were no threat to us but now.... any such weapon that still exists in that region is a threat. nope but it is easy to change it to something that you will not be able to either identify or locate. tell me how to change the chemicals used to produce mustard gas into something completely undetectable from its original state. please tell me the process used also as evidence of that process could be found as well. lol it looks like it is you that needs to do some reading. what exactly did he win public opinion from people such as yourself who believe saddam when he said he destroyed everything rather than use them. tell me something miles how many of our young men and women is it worth for you to get him re-elected try asking a straight question rather than adding your political jab in. it is not a political jab and im asking you not the president. lets have a number. your question is not valid. you are asking a question while at the same time making a political statement of opinion. you say its not political. look at your question again. then ask a valid non-politically motivated one. it is not a pointless question and many did ask. it is pointless just as it is in any war. name a war where someone said this battle is worth x number of lives. pick a war any war. then that would make it harder. im trying to make this easy for you to show what a complete load of crap what you are saying actually is. harder looking for one specific item is easier than looking for one of many good grief! rofl. really then name them and i want the actual valid reasons for a declaration of war. rofl...oh so now youre all set for your response since here youve already made your stipulation that you define what is valid. your dem leaders and bush gave the reasons only one of which was wmds. the same reasons clinton gave years before. yes it is a tv show where they use forensic evidence to solve crimes and of course it is exaggerated beyond belief in many cases sorta like what you are now clainming. is this a fictional series or one of those reality tv shows that show actual crimes and how they are solved the company that put the fires out in kuwait were by far the most skilled in the world. how do we know ignorance shows once again. red adair company has been putting out oilwell fires all over the world since 1959. they have been regarded as the most capable and most experienced company of its type for decades. no other company has done what they have. they got the job because history has shown them to be the best. i dont think any other company had anywheres near the expertise to tackle what adair did in kuwait. .

From : tbone

for companies that sell internationally. make the us market unprofitable and theyll just give up on this market. raising tarrifs will raise prices. 2. making responsible tax cuts that do more besides make the rich even richer it is time for the left to stop viewing the wealthy as bottomless cash cows every time you need some more money. stop spending and cut taxes for all. give the president a line item veto so he doesnt have to pass or veto a bill that consists of a huge stack of individual items. 3. shoring up defenses against terrorists here to minimize damage when we do get hit true we need better border security. but the war on terrorism will be fought whether you like it or not. we need to stop it at its source rather than wait till it reaches our border and simply minimize damage. . 222 282238 aczjc.42495$6m4.3143273@twister.southeast.rr.com tbone wrote really how and i do want specifics in areas not the actual dollars if we now have less fire fighters and police how are we really helped. well now. it appears you have defined what is helped as the number of police or firefighters. once again you resort to spin rather than answer a simple question. how exactly were you helped my other question that you dont actully have to answer because there is none is how is anyone helped by having less firefighters and police and you keep generating the right wing hype that they help everyone. in the long run they have helped the country as a whole. you really think that when the economy is as bad as you say it would be better with higher taxes thats laughable. not really. the only ones tax cuts like that help are the ones that dont need it at all. even with the current tax levels they are still rich so what does making them even richer help sure they may invest the money but what are they going to invest it in how about companies that have the potential to make them even richer yet and how do companies do that how about by cutting costs to increase profits and the easiest way to do that is to reduce payroll by layoffs and outsourcing. yea that really helps the little guy. when the economy is bad the last thing people need is an increase in the cost of living and that is exactly what irresponsible tax cutting does. oh boy here we go with the fuzzy math again. people just love to use percentages because they can be made as misleading as necessary. fuzzy math sorry that percentages confuse you but they are real. they are just numbers that can be made to look like whatever they want. if you want the unemployment rate to look steady during increased layoffs just reduce the workforce total and like magic the unemployment figures hold steady. the lowest income people dont pay taxes because they cant afford to. the problem is that when irresponsible tax cuts like these are created they have to be paid for. an easy way to do it is to cut state aid such as to schools roads and the needy. now the states need to recoup some of this money and they do it by raising taxes and fees and cutting aid. the funny thing is that these increases cost the poor much more than they got from the tax cut. spending must be cut. says who and why are the rich not already rich no matter where it is cut someone will bear the loss. so it ok on the right for the little guy to bare the cost so that the rich can make even more money that they will not possibly be able to spend so nobody wants to cut. you liberals solution is to find a cash cow instead of cutting. you still didnt explain why cutting is necessary unless you are referring to this money killing war on top of irresponsible tax cuts. that cash cow has always been the wealthy. lol they pay the most because the can afford to and this society gave them the means and ability to do it so they should contribute their fair share. there is no limit. you want more money you go take it again and again. punish people for being successfull. lol what a load of shit. they made that mney on the backs of those that work for them. i have no problem with their wealth but i hardly feel sorry for them when they have to pay a little more. if they dont like it they can always leave but i have yet to see amny of them go. the wealthy are by far the greatest supporters of charitable organizations that help the needy. hahahahahahaha yea right. thats why i get more than a dozen letters a week form these organizations because they are so well funded. what would be completely irresponsible is a large tax hike when the economy is as bad as you say. it depends on where the taxes are applied and what the moey is used for. you cant recover from a recession through high taxes. i thought that we were in a booming economy even though you refuse to admit it the economy is growing rapidly. no it isnt and you have yet to show any

From : tbone

tbone wrote we need to be prepared for it and do what we can to prevent it. our army cannot do it alone. thats kerrys plan to fight terrorism be prepared hmm...was kerry a boyscout possibly what exactly is your plan are you saying that nothing has changed and that we live in the same world today as we did 10 or 20 or even 5 years ago sure it changes. so what do we have to go by to vote for kerry he has decades of political history that shows what he stands for. now in the course of 1 year everything he has done for 30+ years is tossed out how about the national democratic convention then there will be the debates. plenty of time to see what they both are made of although bush has already done a good job of that and even you think he is not the best choice. so why is kerry campaigning at all because he has not won it yet. why not wait until after the convention since according to you he cant tell us what he stands for today nor any of his opinions on what we should do about terrorism economy etc. he has said plenty. you just choose to follow the republicam spin machine. thats the good thing he doesnt need one yet and his current concerns are valid. yes he needs to take a stand on issues yet. he has and still is. you are just fixated on the republican spin where just about everyone was changing their minds as tons of new and conflicting informantion was comming in. at least you admit his current speaches are about nothing since he hasnt gotten around to taking a stand on issues yet. nice spin but that is not what i said. i said that not being the president he has more of a luxury on changing his mind. i wouldnt have a problem with bush either ecxept he tends to make his mind up way before all of the facts are in and then tries to change them to make himself look better. 1. keeping jobs in this country so that everyone has the opportunity to work by having high tarrifs sometimes yes. all that does is reduce the us profit margins for companies that sell internationally. lol talk about ignorance. just look at the trade defecits and you will realise that it doesnt really matter. then add in that the only reason that they buy from us is that they cant make it themselfs and high tarrifs are not going to change that. make the us market unprofitable and theyll just give up on this market. good then that will create jobs here to satisfy the demand. more people working means more people with money to spend which means more demand which means more jobs which means more people working with money yo spend which means....... raising tarrifs will raise prices. yes they will. for too long we have been living a champaign life style on a beer budget and there is a cost to that american jobs. it is time that we get back into reality. 2. making responsible tax cuts that do more besides make the rich even richer it is time for the left to stop viewing the wealthy as bottomless cash cows every time you need some more money. lol they make it here they need to support the society that makes it possible. stop spending and cut taxes for all. here we go with the right wing fantasy land again. give the president a line item veto so he doesnt have to pass or veto a bill that consists of a huge stack of individual items. i agree with that but like they say absolute power corrupts absolutly. 3. shoring up defenses against terrorists here to minimize damage when we do get hit true we need better border security. it is more than border security pinhead. we need to beef up intellegence and be prepared for when it does happen. but the war on terrorism will be fought whether you like it or not. we need to stop it at its source rather than wait till it reaches our border and simply minimize damage. lol and where exactly is the source terrorism comes down to the individual person and their beliefs. no army can defeat that and a quick look over at israel is all you need to see that. do you just intend to kill them all and what all will you kill -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote not really. the only ones tax cuts like that help are the ones that dont need it at all. even with the current tax levels they are still rich so what does making them even richer help rofl. they are still rich so the left sees the need to tax em more. your view seems to be that as long as people are still rich they can be taxed higher when gov. needs more money. thats a bad philosophy. they are just numbers that can be made to look like whatever they want. if you want the unemployment rate to look steady during increased layoffs just reduce the workforce total and like magic the unemployment figures hold steady. true but whats magical is your attempt at showing high unemployment when in reality rates have dropped and workforce has gone up. besides you need to read up on just how unemployment rates are computed. spending must be cut. says who and why are the rich not already rich what now thats the silliest thing youve said yet. gov. shouldnt cut spending because the rich are already rich whats that mean as long as the rich have money we should raise spending and tax the rich some more to pay for it if this is what you mean then this discussion is ended due to lunacy on your part. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote not really. the only ones tax cuts like that help are the ones that dont need it at all. even with the current tax levels they are still rich so what does making them even richer help rofl. they are still rich so the left sees the need to tax em more. where exactly did i say to tax them more all i said is that there is no great need to tax them less. your view seems to be that as long as people are still rich they can be taxed higher when gov. needs more money. thats a bad philosophy. yes it is and that is not what i said. but to make major tax cuts at a time of war when money is most needed is a bad policy. they are just numbers that can be made to look like whatever they want. if you want the unemployment rate to look steady during increased layoffs just reduce the workforce total and like magic the unemployment figures hold steady. true but whats magical is your attempt at showing high unemployment when in reality rates have dropped and workforce has gone up. prove it with the last three months. besides you need to read up on just how unemployment rates are computed. i do know what about you. spending must be cut. says who and why are the rich not already rich what now thats the silliest thing youve said yet. gov. shouldnt cut spending because the rich are already rich no the government shouldnt irresponsibly cut taxes and spending for the sole purpose of helping those that dont need help and taking it away form the ones that do. looks like a method to buy votes to me since it serves no other purpose. whats that mean read above. as long as the rich have money we should raise spending and tax the rich some more to pay for it lol talk about the republican spin machine! why is it that everytime someone says not to irresponsibly cut taxes it gets spun into raise taxes on the rich i said no such thing but these tax cuts changed it from finally being able to pay off the national debt into setting it to a record level. sounds pretty irresponsible to me. if this is what you mean then this discussion is ended due to lunacy on your part. if you feel the need to bail out then go ahead but dont blame it on me. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote lol talk about the republican spin machine! why is it that everytime someone says not to irresponsibly cut taxes it gets spun into raise taxes on the rich i said no such thing but these tax cuts changed it from finally being able to pay off the national debt into setting it to a record level. sounds pretty irresponsible to me. you want to raise taxs and spin it to call it a rollback of the cuts to make it sound better. if thats the case then the tax cuts were just a rollback of the increases clinton gave us. whats irresponsible is the spending that congress passed. kerry wants to raise taxes..period. call it what you want its a tax hike. .

From : miles

tbone wrote some baseless rhetoric. muhahah roflmao....oh man too funny to even respond. go ahead and declare yourself another winner of some warped contest and boost your ego. a few of your whoppers were pretty good! .

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol talk about the republican spin machine! why is it that everytime someone says not to irresponsibly cut taxes it gets spun into raise taxes on the rich i said no such thing but these tax cuts changed it from finally being able to pay off the national debt into setting it to a record level. sounds pretty irresponsible to me. you want to raise taxs and spin it to call it a rollback of the cuts to make it sound better. if thats the case then the tax cuts were just a rollback of the increases clinton gave us. whats irresponsible is the spending that congress passed. kerry wants to raise taxes..period. call it what you want its a tax hike. how could we have this war and not pass the spending for it. you can blame our current president and the republican congress for that one. the cuts were irresponsible and not a single crumb of data proves that they did anything for the country. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

thank you i will. later -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tbone wrote some baseless rhetoric. muhahah roflmao....oh man too funny to even respond. go ahead and declare yourself another winner of some warped contest and boost your ego. a few of your whoppers were pretty good! .

From : tbone

tbone wrote you keep talking soil when in reality you should be talking sand. soil tends to stay where it is at least the lower clay while sand blows and shifts or did you not see the sand storms that our soldiers are dealing with. all of iraq isnt sand dunes. not even close. but if they did bury something in sand it wouldnt just be on the surface area. there is a big difference between bury and dump. moved them sold them or destroyed them. before the war they were no threat to us but now.... any such weapon that still exists in that region is a threat. how nope but it is easy to change it to something that you will not be able to either identify or locate. tell me how to change the chemicals used to produce mustard gas into something completely undetectable from its original state. 1. burn them 2. mix them with other chemicals please tell me the process used also as evidence of that process could be found as well. lol only if you know where to look. lol it looks like it is you that needs to do some reading. what exactly did he win public opinion from people such as yourself who believe saddam when he said he destroyed everything rather than use them. and you cant prove different. tell me something miles how many of our young men and women is it worth for you to get him re-elected try asking a straight question rather than adding your political jab in. it is not a political jab and im asking you not the president. lets have a number. your question is not valid. you are asking a question while at the same time making a political statement of opinion. no im asking a question. you say its not political. look at your question again. then ask a valid non-politically motivated one. how is the deaths of soldiers politically motivated the only one making it that way is you. why cant you answer it it is not a pointless question and many did ask. it is pointless just as it is in any war. name a war where someone said this battle is worth x number of lives. pick a war any war. how about all of them. then that would make it harder. im trying to make this easy for you to show what a complete load of crap what you are saying actually is. harder looking for one specific item is easier than looking for one of many good grief! rofl. of course it is. then you have specifics on what to look for. really then name them and i want the actual valid reasons for a declaration of war. rofl...oh so now youre all set for your response since here youve already made your stipulation that you define what is valid. iow you know that i am right and are now trying to spin your way out of it. your dem leaders and bush gave the reasons only one of which was wmds. the same reasons clinton gave years before. funny i dont remember any war while clinton was president. im still waiting for your response but we both know you wont deliver because the reason for war was the weapons of mass destruction that dont seem to exist. yes it is a tv show where they use forensic evidence to solve crimes and of course it is exaggerated beyond belief in many cases sorta like what you are now clainming. is this a fictional series or one of those reality tv shows that show actual crimes and how they are solved yep a fictional series. if it were reality based then i would believe it. the company that put the fires out in kuwait were by far the most skilled in the world. how do we know ignorance shows once again. red adair company has been putting out oilwell fires all over the world since 1959. and they are the only ones capable of doing this they have been regarded as the most capable and most experienced company of its type for decades. no other company has done what they have. they got the job because history has shown them to be the best. i dont think any other company had anywheres near the expertise to tackle what adair did in kuwait. and we never got the chance to find out. i agree that their work was amazing but was anyone else given the chance to try -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote if we cannot even find them after all of this time then they were not ready to be used on anyone never mind us. the fact is that if they cannot be found then they probably do no longer exist. all this time iraq is as big as california. it would be simple to hide tons of chemicals and other weapons in california and you could not find them. but the type of proof that you want may be impossible to get and in a few months it will be impossible to get. the fact that we can find no trace of them may be all that you get. lets just hope that he didnt give them to someone that will use them against us in retaliation for our unprovoked attack on his country. i hope that he didnt give them to syria or someone else as well. thats why we need to find what happened to them rather than use your illogical conclusion that they just do not exist anywhere. hahahahaha i like talking to you miles you make me laugh. the first thing in forensic sciences is knowing where to look. we have no idea. chemicals break down when exposed to air heat light ect.. oh my. now youre grasping on your lack of knowledge on chemistry. sure you have to know where to look. iraq is a huge place. they did exist they are somewhere in some form. we need to know for certain that they pose no threat. and the inspectors were there at the time. and saddam played the same games with them as he did for the past 12 years. those many months would have been used to get tehm ready for use on our troops and that didnt happen either. gee i wonder why not. thats your evidence that they do not exist that he didnt use them thats a theory not proof. because of ppl like yourself saddam won more by not using them than if he had. we know he had them we know he used them before. i want to know what happened to the ones that remained and prove that they are not a threat to anyone anymore. i do think that is of concern to most liberals as well but partisan politica gets in the way. lol that doesnt mean that you will ever identify or even locate any of the parts. it doesnt mean we shouldnt keep looking either. youre right we may never find them. but that doesnt mean they do not exist because they most certainly did. lol nice spin but that is not what i asked. please provide evidence remains proving the existance of every 73 lime green pinto that ford produced. they were all tagged and nobody is trying to hide them so by your reasoning it should be easy. spin look in at your above mess of an analogy. if 10 years ago i knew that 1000 pintos existed in california id wager we could identify some of them today even if they were moved to another state. unfortunatly we cant search other areas such as syria. in most cases that is correct not as a car anyway. the point is that things can be destroyed and no evidence will ever be found. so based on that you just accept a lunitics word that he destroyed them and left no trace difficult to find yes. impossible no. i noticed that you magically deleted the part about the new main focus for the attack that appeared from the right wing when the wmds were not lying around waiting for us to discover. new focus rofl!! wmds were not the first reason given for going into iraq. actually yes some do exactly that. others soak into the sand and a good sand storm will either disperse them to much or bury them too deep to find. traces would still be found. do some research on the tests done last year around a suspected chem lab in afghanistan. they found traces over a 1/2 mile away in the soil. lol you watch way to much csi. csi not familiar with that. is that a tv show really or is it nothing that you want to see. how much money dod we make putting out those fires i fail to follow your logic here. who started the fires is it wrong to have put them out should the company that did have done so at their own expense how quickly we forget about those no-bid contracts going to the vps old company. how quickly you forget how those companies were selected. ill give you a hint. they did bid. during the 90s a program setup for such contingencies was created. companies submitted bids and winners were selected in the future event they would be needed. who was president during the 90s when these contigency contracts were awared how are the lives of both parents and children political because you lefties bring up women and children as a lame attempt to use emotions for political gains. its political because you try to use that emotion to win votes. you didnt bring up men etc. you brought up children as you lefties so often do. if an action hurts people it hurts them all not just children. ahh but children get more emotional sympathy and possibly more votes. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote his opinion means little it is the will of the people that he is elected to represent and protect. now sometimes that does mean looking toward the future and not always doing what the people think that they want but until the decision is made... oh now thats a good one. politicians arent supposed to stand for anything. lol sorry spinmaster that is not what i said. of course thay need to stand for something and your saying that kerry doesnt is nothing more than your typical right wing spin. they just say vote for me and ill do whatever ya want. they are all elected by the people to serve the people and should at least listen to them unlike bush when making a decision. at least you admit kerry doesnt stand for anything...ya so lets vote for him and hope he does what we want. rofl...thats too funny. i never said that but i would wather vote for him than an arrogant ass who listens to knowbody even when it is obvious that he is wrong. then again we have a president that likes to say one thing and mean another or change the facts when it suites his needs and perhaps that changing information just might have something to do with it. has kerry said anything that reflects what he has done over the years how would you even know do you know him personally all you are spouting off is the right wing spin crap and then have the nerve to accuse others of bush bashing. heck no his history in politics is opposite that of his current speaches. really what does that even mean he lacks credibility to carry out what he now speaks of. his voting record doesnt match. i rather rely on what he has done than believe what he says he will do. more right wing babble. well since he hasnt created one yet how do you know. rofl...at least you admit he has no platform. you just vote and hope good plan. vote on what i dont recall an election yet. once he has the official nomination and not before. that is the way it always was and always will be. bull. almost every candidate prior has stated his opinions on major issues prior to the convention. and so has kerry despite your spin. we are in rapidly changing times and as new information becomes available his opinion on things should change. exactly when has his opinion changed on the major issues that was not directly related to major changes in what we know to be true they have always stated their opinions on solutions to major issues. they dont do as kerry has and just answer questions on issues with ill have to get back to you on that. lol yet more spin. you must be getting dizzy by now. he is better than our current president who basically stands there and babbles when asked an unexpected question like he did with just about every one of them in his address a few weeks ago and he was prepared for that one. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote lol sorry spinmaster that is not what i said. of course thay need to stand for something and your saying that kerry doesnt is nothing more than your typical right wing spin. he doesnt stand for anything. whats his view towards terrorism wait let me rephrase that. what is his view this month towards terrorism and how to deal with it heck no his history in politics is opposite that of his current speaches. really what does that even mean his decades of voting records are opposite of what hes been ranting at his campaign speaches. more right wing babble. lol...whenever you having nothing to say you toss out words likse spin and babble! too funny. vote on what i dont recall an election yet. ah we have to wait until election day to see what kerry stands for good plan. and so has kerry despite your spin. no he hasnt. whats kerrys plan to fight terrorism this month whats his economic plan he hasnt taken a stand on much of anything. lol yet more spin. you must be getting dizzy by now. he is better than our current president ya know your only answer is better than our current president. iows kerry cant stand on his own. i asked about kerry. what does he stand for .

From : rush

you should not attempt to confuse liberal democreeps with facts. liberals are more comfortable with feelings. rush get your facts straight. 1. franklin d. roosevelt democrat led us into wwii. germany never attacked us japan did. 2. harry s. truman another democrat finished wwii and then started one in korea. north korea never attacked us. 3. john f. kennedy another democrat started the vietnam conflict in 1962. north vietnam never attacked us. 4. lyndon b. johnson another democrat turned kennedys vietnam into a quagmire. from 1965 to 1975 58000 american troops were killed an average of 5800 per year 5. william j. clinton yes another democrat took us to war in bosnia without un or french consent. bosnia never attacked us. clinton was offered osama bin ladens head on a platter three times by the sudan but did nothing. osama and his disciples have attacked us on multiple occasions. writes simple response. reason for hire gas prices bush regime profit pocketing and kickbacks and the american people happy to make the republican leadership rich. war it makes money. every rep. president in our past has taken us to a long term war. they make money and thats what republican leaders are about. they dont make money for you. they make money for them. .

From : 2boos

simple response. reason for hire gas prices bush regime profit pocketing and kickbacks and the american people happy to make the republican leadership rich. war it makes money. every rep. president in our past has taken us to a long term war. they make money and thats what republican leaders are about. they dont make money for you. they make money for them. tbone wrote you keep talking soil when in reality you should be talking sand. soil tends to stay where it is at least the lower clay while sand blows and shifts or did you not see the sand storms that our soldiers are dealing with. all of iraq isnt sand dunes. not even close. but if they did bury something in sand it wouldnt just be on the surface area. there is a big difference between bury and dump. moved them sold them or destroyed them. before the war they were no threat to us but now.... any such weapon that still exists in that region is a threat. how nope but it is easy to change it to something that you will not be able to either identify or locate. tell me how to change the chemicals used to produce mustard gas into something completely undetectable from its original state. 1. burn them 2. mix them with other chemicals please tell me the process used also as evidence of that process could be found as well. lol only if you know where to look. lol it looks like it is you that needs to do some reading. what exactly did he win public opinion from people such as yourself who believe saddam when he said he destroyed everything rather than use them. and you cant prove different. tell me something miles how many of our young men and women is it worth for you to get him re-elected try asking a straight question rather than adding your political jab in. it is not a political jab and im asking you not the president. lets have a number. your question is not valid. you are asking a question while at the same time making a political statement of opinion. no im asking a question. you say its not political. look at your question again. then ask a valid non-politically motivated one. how is the deaths of soldiers politically motivated the only one making it that way is you. why cant you answer it it is not a pointless question and many did ask. it is pointless just as it is in any war. name a war where someone said this battle is worth x number of lives. pick a war any war. how about all of them. then that would make it harder. im trying to make this easy for you to show what a complete load of crap what you are saying actually is. harder looking for one specific item is easier than looking for one of many good grief! rofl. of course it is. then you have specifics on what to look for. really then name them and i want the actual valid reasons for a declaration of war. rofl...oh so now youre all set for your response since here youve already made your stipulation that you define what is valid. iow you know that i am right and are now trying to spin your way out of it. your dem leaders and bush gave the reasons only one of which was wmds. the same reasons clinton gave years before. funny i dont remember any war while clinton was president. im still waiting for your response but we both know you wont deliver because the reason for war was the weapons of mass destruction that dont seem to exist. yes it is a tv show where they use forensic evidence to solve crimes and of course it is exaggerated beyond belief in many cases sorta like what you are now clainming. is this a fictional series or one of those reality tv shows that show actual crimes and how they are solved yep a fictional series. if it were reality based then i would believe it. the company that put the fires out in kuwait were by far the most skilled in the world. how do we know ignorance shows once again. red adair company has been putting out oilwell fires all over the world since 1959. and they are the only ones capable of doing this they have been regarded as the most capable and most experienced company of its type for decades. no other company has done what they have. they got the job because history has shown them to be the best. i dont think any other company had anywheres near the expertise to tackle what adair did in kuwait. and we never got the chance to find out. i agree that their work was amazing but was anyone else given the chance to try -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : Annonymous

get your facts straight. 1. franklin d. roosevelt democrat led us into wwii. germany never attacked us japan did. 2. harry s. truman another democrat finished wwii and then started one in korea. north korea never attacked us. 3. john f. kennedy another democrat started the vietnam conflict in 1962. north vietnam never attacked us. 4. lyndon b. johnson another democrat turned kennedys vietnam into a quagmire. from 1965 to 1975 58000 american troops were killed an average of 5800 per year 5. william j. clinton yes another democrat took us to war in bosnia without un or french consent. bosnia never attacked us. clinton was offered osama bin ladens head on a platter three times by the sudan but did nothing. osama and his disciples have attacked us on multiple occasions. writes simple response. reason for hire gas prices bush regime profit pocketing and kickbacks and the american people happy to make the republican leadership rich. war it makes money. every rep. president in our past has taken us to a long term war. they make money and thats what republican leaders are about. they dont make money for you. they make money for them. .

From : jeff mayner

ramman@dodgecity.cc wrote get your facts straight. 1. franklin d. roosevelt democrat led us into wwii. germany never attacked us japan did. lets see. are you saying we declared war on germany italy geeze do some research before you trip over your own ignorance will ya 2. harry s. truman another democrat finished wwii and then started one in korea. north korea never attacked us. yeah but arent you repubs the ones with the domino theory and such china and the yellow hord thing 3. john f. kennedy another democrat started the vietnam conflict in 1962. north vietnam never attacked us. lets see. france was run outta vietnam in 54 and general dwight sent advisers over there when 4. lyndon b. johnson another democrat turned kennedys vietnam into a quagmire. from 1965 to 1975 58000 american troops were killed an average of 5800 per year and nixon and the turncoat kissenger scuttled the paris peace talks prior to 68 to help nixon win the election right you knew that right how many of our young men died after 68 do you even know 5. william j. clinton yes another democrat took us to war in bosnia without un or french consent. bosnia never attacked us. tell the whole story. clinton was offered osama bin ladens head on a platter three times by the sudan but did nothing. lies. read richard clarks book hes a republican. maybe youll learn something. that is of course if you can see past your flying-monkey colored glasses. osama and his disciples have attacked us on multiple occasions. and were doing such a good job in afghanistan going after him right oh yeah thats right most of our fighting force is bogged down in iraq fighting an elective and illegal war with a country that did not attack us had no weopens of mass destruction and had nothing to do with al queada or bin ladin. plus weve got our kids sitting around occupying a country that now does have al quada and other terrorists flowing into it from everywhere trying to kill themselves an american infidel. great. writes simple response. reason for hire gas prices bush regime profit pocketing and kickbacks and the american people happy to make the republican leadership rich. war it makes money. every rep. president in our past has taken us to a long term war. they make money and thats what republican leaders are about. they dont make money for you. they make money for them. .

From : jeff mayner

rush wrote you should not attempt to confuse liberal democreeps with facts. liberals are more comfortable with feelings. rush lol... rush. sheeit boy! love that nic. facts you dont got no facts you right-wing monkey you. jeff get your facts straight. 1. franklin d. roosevelt democrat led us into wwii. germany never attacked us japan did. 2. harry s. truman another democrat finished wwii and then started one in korea. north korea never attacked us. 3. john f. kennedy another democrat started the vietnam conflict in 1962. north vietnam never attacked us. 4. lyndon b. johnson another democrat turned kennedys vietnam into a quagmire. from 1965 to 1975 58000 american troops were killed an average of 5800 per year 5. william j. clinton yes another democrat took us to war in bosnia without un or french consent. bosnia never attacked us. clinton was offered osama bin ladens head on a platter three times by the sudan but did nothing. osama and his disciples have attacked us on multiple occasions. 2boos@2boos.com writes simple response. reason for hire gas prices bush regime profit pocketing and kickbacks and the american people happy to make the republican leadership rich. war it makes money. every rep. president in our past has taken us to a long term war. they make money and thats what republican leaders are about. they dont make money for you. they make money for them. .

From : johnnyd

if the liberal treehuggers would have allowed the usa to tap our oil resources in alaska we would be paying a whole lot less and not depending on the towel heads. johnnyd simple response. reason for hire gas prices bush regime profit pocketing and kickbacks and the american people happy to make the republican leadership rich. war it makes money. every rep. president in our past has taken us to a long term war. they make money and thats what republican leaders are about. they dont make money for you. they make money for them. tbone wrote you keep talking soil when in reality you should be talking sand. soil tends to stay where it is at least the lower clay while sand blows and shifts or did you not see the sand storms that our soldiers are dealing with. all of iraq isnt sand dunes. not even close. but if they did bury something in sand it wouldnt just be on the surface area. there is a big difference between bury and dump. moved them sold them or destroyed them. before the war they were no threat to us but now.... any such weapon that still exists in that region is a threat. how nope but it is easy to change it to something that you will not be able to either identify or locate. tell me how to change the chemicals used to produce mustard gas into something completely undetectable from its original state. 1. burn them 2. mix them with other chemicals please tell me the process used also as evidence of that process could be found as well. lol only if you know where to look. lol it looks like it is you that needs to do some reading. what exactly did he win public opinion from people such as yourself who believe saddam when he said he destroyed everything rather than use them. and you cant prove different. tell me something miles how many of our young men and women is it worth for you to get him re-elected try asking a straight question rather than adding your political jab in. it is not a political jab and im asking you not the president. lets have a number. your question is not valid. you are asking a question while at the same time making a political statement of opinion. no im asking a question. you say its not political. look at your question again. then ask a valid non-politically motivated one. how is the deaths of soldiers politically motivated the only one making it that way is you. why cant you answer it it is not a pointless question and many did ask. it is pointless just as it is in any war. name a war where someone said this battle is worth x number of lives. pick a war any war. how about all of them. then that would make it harder. im trying to make this easy for you to show what a complete load of crap what you are saying actually is. harder looking for one specific item is easier than looking for one of many good grief! rofl. of course it is. then you have specifics on what to look for. really then name them and i want the actual valid reasons for a declaration of war. rofl...oh so now youre all set for your response since here youve already made your stipulation that you define what is valid. iow you know that i am right and are now trying to spin your way out of it. your dem leaders and bush gave the reasons only one of which was wmds. the same reasons clinton gave years before. funny i dont remember any war while clinton was president. im still waiting for your response but we both know you wont deliver because the reason for war was the weapons of mass destruction that dont seem to exist. yes it is a tv show where they use forensic evidence to solve crimes and of course it is exaggerated beyond belief in many cases sorta like what you are now clainming. is this a fictional series or one of those reality tv shows that show actual crimes and how they are solved yep a fictional series. if it were reality based then i would believe it. the company that put the fires out in kuwait were by far the most skilled in the world. how do we know ignorance shows once again. red adair company has been putting out oilwell fires all over the world since 1959. and they are the only ones capable of doing this they have been regarded as the most capable and most experienced company of its type for decades. no other company has done what they have. they got the job because history has shown them to be the best. i dont think any other company had anywheres near the expertise to tackle what adair did in kuwait. and we never got the chance to find out. i agree that their work was amazing but was anyone else given the chance to try -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

james1549 wrote rule of thumb... trans temp can run 10% higher than engine temp. i wouldnt be concerned at this point. havent heard that. most of the shops around here say trannys should average below 200 with spikes above when pulling grades etc. i did a crude test. drove around until the gauge read 210. pulled over took the dipstick out and touched the tip. i was easily able to hold onto it. only felt a bit warm. if it were really 210 i would not have been able to do that. i then remembered i had an infrared thermometer i use with my gas rc trucks. it showed the dipstick to only be at 130. ill exchange the gauge/sender and see how a new set reads. .

From : tbone

lol you do realize that facts have no meaning here unless they lean to the right. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving ramman@dodgecity.cc wrote get your facts straight. 1. franklin d. roosevelt democrat led us into wwii. germany never attacked us japan did. lets see. are you saying we declared war on germany italy geeze do some research before you trip over your own ignorance will ya 2. harry s. truman another democrat finished wwii and then started one in korea. north korea never attacked us. yeah but arent you repubs the ones with the domino theory and such china and the yellow hord thing 3. john f. kennedy another democrat started the vietnam conflict in 1962. north vietnam never attacked us. lets see. france was run outta vietnam in 54 and general dwight sent advisers over there when 4. lyndon b. johnson another democrat turned kennedys vietnam into a quagmire. from 1965 to 1975 58000 american troops were killed an average of 5800 per year and nixon and the turncoat kissenger scuttled the paris peace talks prior to 68 to help nixon win the election right you knew that right how many of our young men died after 68 do you even know 5. william j. clinton yes another democrat took us to war in bosnia without un or french consent. bosnia never attacked us. tell the whole story. clinton was offered osama bin ladens head on a platter three times by the sudan but did nothing. lies. read richard clarks book hes a republican. maybe youll learn something. that is of course if you can see past your flying-monkey colored glasses. osama and his disciples have attacked us on multiple occasions. and were doing such a good job in afghanistan going after him right oh yeah thats right most of our fighting force is bogged down in iraq fighting an elective and illegal war with a country that did not attack us had no weopens of mass destruction and had nothing to do with al queada or bin ladin. plus weve got our kids sitting around occupying a country that now does have al quada and other terrorists flowing into it from everywhere trying to kill themselves an american infidel. great. writes simple response. reason for hire gas prices bush regime profit pocketing and kickbacks and the american people happy to make the republican leadership rich. war it makes money. every rep. president in our past has taken us to a long term war. they make money and thats what republican leaders are about. they dont make money for you. they make money for them. .

From : tbone

lol what a load of crap. it is more like if the typical driver didnt drive a huge gas sucking suv or pickup for no other reason than they can we would be paying much less for gas. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving if the liberal treehuggers would have allowed the usa to tap our oil resources in alaska we would be paying a whole lot less and not depending on the towel heads. johnnyd simple response. reason for hire gas prices bush regime profit pocketing and kickbacks and the american people happy to make the republican leadership rich. war it makes money. every rep. president in our past has taken us to a long term war. they make money and thats what republican leaders are about. they dont make money for you. they make money for them. tbone wrote you keep talking soil when in rea

From : tbone

soil tends to stay where it is at least the lower clay while sand blows and shifts or did you not see the sand storms that our soldiers are dealing with. all of iraq isnt sand dunes. not even close. but if they did bury something in sand it wouldnt just be on the surface area. there is a big difference between bury and dump. moved them sold them or destroyed them. before the war they were no threat to us but now.... any such weapon that still exists in that region is a threat. how nope but it is easy to change it to something that you will not be able to either identify or locate. tell me how to change the chemicals used to produce mustard gas into something completely undetectable from its original state. 1. burn them 2. mix them with other chemicals please tell me the process used also as evidence of that process could be found as well. lol only if you know where to look. lol it looks like it is you that needs to do some reading. what exactly did he win public opinion from people such as yourself who believe saddam when he said he destroyed everything rather than use them. and you cant prove different. tell me something miles how many of our young men and women is it worth for you to get him re-elected try asking a straight question rather than adding your political jab in. it is not a political jab and im asking you not the president. lets have a number. your question is not valid. you are asking a question while at the same time making a political statement of opinion. no im asking a question. you say its not political. look at your question again. then ask a valid non-politically motivated one. how is the deaths of soldiers politically motivated the only one making it that way is you. why cant you answer it it is not a pointless question and many did ask. it is pointless just as it is in any war. name a war where someone said this battle is worth x number of lives. pick a war any war. how about all of them. then that would make it harder. im trying to make this easy for you to show what a complete load of crap what you are saying actually is. harder looking for one specific item is easier than looking for one of many good grief! rofl. of course it is. then you have specifics on what to look for. really then name them and i want the actual valid reasons for a declaration of war. rofl...oh so now youre all set for your response since here youve already made your stipulation that you define what is valid. iow you know that i am right and are now trying to spin your way out of it. your dem leaders and bush gave the reasons only one of which was wmds. the same reasons clinton gave years before. funny i dont remember any war while clinton was president. im still waiting for your response but we both know you wont deliver because the reason for war was the weapons of mass destruction that dont seem to exist. yes it is a tv show where they use forensic evidence to solve crimes and of course it is exaggerated beyond belief in many cases sorta like what you are now clainming. is this a fictional series or one of those reality tv shows that show actual crimes and how they are solved yep a fictional series. if it were reality based then i would believe it. the company that put the fires out in kuwait were by far the most skilled in the world. how do we know ignorance shows once again. red adair company has been putting out oilwell fires all over the world since 1959. and they are the only ones capable of doing this they have been regarded as the most capable and most experienced company of its type for decades. no other company has done what they have. they got the job because history has shown them to be the best. i dont think any other company had anywheres near the expertise to tackle what adair did in kuwait. and we never got the chance to find out. i agree that their work was amazing but was anyone else given the chance to try -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving . 222 282639 w66oc.24094$v.982420@twister.southeast.rr.com this thread never seems to die. there are reasons for that as you well know but refuse to look at. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving johnnyd wrote if the liberal treehuggers would have allowed the usa to tap our oil resources in alaska we would be paying a whole lot less and not depending on the towel heads. its not just alaska. its nationwide and offshore as well. almost impossible to even do exploratory drilling for the future. .

From : milesh

tbone wrote lol what a load of crap. it is more like if the typical driver didnt drive a huge gas sucking suv or pickup for no other reason than they can we would be paying much less for gas. youre only looking at one side of the supply/demand equation as so many lefties do. increasing supply is the other part. thats why pressure is being put on the saudis to push opec into increasing supplies. but what about here at home oh thats right you already stated on an earlier thread that we should be dependent on foreign oil rather than use our own. besides its ok to drive a huge gas sucking suv or pickup if in your mind you feel youre not driving it much as you stated earlier. .

From : milesh

tbone wrote this thread never seems to die. there are reasons for that as you well know but refuse to look at. yep mostly well intentioned but warped enviromental ideas from clueless lefties. i know in your mind all those lefty ideas are well thought out and wonderfull. there are two radical sides. 1st is your side where nobody can do dang thing our of fear that the 2nd side is bent on destroying everything. somewhere in the middle is the ideal situation. your lefty side is every bit as bad as the far rights tear it up attitude. what your side doesnt seem to get is that most that are against the radical lefts environmental ideas are not far right at all. i refuse to support the far left as well as the far right. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol what a load of crap. it is more like if the typical driver didnt drive a huge gas sucking suv or pickup for no other reason than they can we would be paying much less for gas. youre only looking at one side of the supply/demand equation as so many lefties do. and you only look at the other like so many rightist do. increasing supply is the other part. which is the only part that you ever look at. perhaps you should also look at how supply is effected by demand. thats why pressure is being put on the saudis to push opec into increasing supplies. yes god forbid some pressure be put on americans to actually have some responsibility in the vehicles that they choose. but what about here at home oh thats right you already stated on an earlier thread that we should be dependent on foreign oil rather than use our own. that is correct and if you actually knew anything about national security or even the economy you would know why. oh thats right you have that right wing head in the sand idiotic belief that some other endless source of energy is magically going to appear when our oil supply runs out. besides its ok to drive a huge gas sucking suv or pickup if in your mind you feel youre not driving it much as you stated earlier. lol more moronic word twisting on your part. i drive my truck when i need it and my nissan the rest of the time and if others did the same our gas prices would be lower because their would be less demand for the existing supply. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote this thread never seems to die. there are reasons for that as you well know but refuse to look at. yep mostly well intentioned but warped enviromental ideas from clueless lefties. lol not even close to the reasons that im talking about. i know in your mind all those lefty ideas are well thought out and wonderfull. i dont pay all that much attention to the extreem left and even less to the extreem right. there are two radical sides. 1st is your side where nobody can do dang thing our of fear that the 2nd side is bent on destroying everything. it is nothing more than an established pattern of behavior. i guess that you want all the notification programs for child molesters eliminated as well because until they commit the crime again they are innocent. somewhere in the middle is the ideal situation. i agree but you never go there. all you ever talk about is increasing the supply never taking responsibility and trying to conserve. your lefty side is every bit as bad as the far rights tear it up attitude. i guess that would be your attitude then. what your side doesnt seem to get is that most that are against the radical lefts environmental ideas are not far right at all. lol how would you know and their is far more to it besides just the environmental issues that you like to keep bringing up. i refuse to support the far left as well as the far right. i would believe that if it were not for the simple fact that you are part of the far right. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote it is nothing more than an established pattern of behavior. i guess that you want all the notification programs for child molesters eliminated as well because until they commit the crime again they are innocent. whoa typical lefty rant about a subject not even brought up now were talking about child molesters good grief. i agree but you never go there. all you ever talk about is increasing the supply never taking responsibility and trying to conserve. not so at all. i just do not do as you do and stop all attempts at increasing supply and at the same time blame everyone that drives an suv. you also seem to forget that we use a considerable amount of oil for things other than gasoline. prices on those items have gone way up as well. most of the cost of gasoline is not the price of a barrel of oil. we get a ton of oil from canada very little if any of that ends up as gas. cutting the consumption of gasoline will cause the costs of refinement and distrubution far more than the price of a barrel of oil. our demand for oil for other uses will not diminish because of fewer suvs. lol how would you know and their is far more to it besides just the environmental issues that you like to keep bringing up. by all means tell us all. i would believe that if it were not for the simple fact that you are part of the far right. why ive already told you i support decreases in consumption as well as increased supply. can you do the same .

From : milesh

tbone wrote and you only look at the other like so many rightist do. nope i look at both sides. i agree that people need to conserve but also supplies need to be increased. that a problem for you which is the only part that you ever look at. perhaps you should also look at how supply is effected by demand. not so. see above. but thanks for answering my question. you do have a problem with someone that sees a need to improve both sides. yes god forbid some pressure be put on americans to actually have some responsibility in the vehicles that they choose. oh please. youre such the hypocrite. you drive a huge gas guzzling vehicle. you just do what so many lefties do and point out how worse others are as if that makes you ok and not part of the problem. that is correct and if you actually knew anything about national security or even the economy you would know why. oh thats right you have that right wing head in the sand idiotic belief that some other endless source of energy is magically going to appear when our oil supply runs out. rofl!! your logic false flat on its ass and heres why. you say we need to save our own oil for the future when foreigners run out. problem is when that foreign oil does run out well be decades behind in developing our own sources. you wont even let anyone explore to see what we have for the future. in the mean time youre letting others dictate a good portion of our economy and preventing any chance for finding oil for the future. lol more moronic word twisting on your part. i drive my truck when i need it and my nissan the rest of the time and if others did the same our gas prices would be lower because their would be less demand for the existing supply. muhaha! its always others that cause the problem not the lefties that also own gas guzzlers. as long as someone else drives theirs more than you then its all their fault and not yours. good grief the old lefties logic of blaming others once again. get rid of your truck..period. your nissan isnt exactly high mpg anyways. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote and you only look at the other like so many rightist do. nope i look at both sides. i agree that people need to conserve but also supplies need to be increased. that a problem for you yep. the problem is that if supplies are increased and prices drop people dont bother to conserve and that is evident by the ever increasing size of the vehicles that are being built. btw i have never heard you ever mention conservation. perhaps you might want to point out exactly where you ever mentioned it. which is the only part that you ever look at. perhaps you should also look at how supply is effected by demand. not so. see above. but thanks for answering my question. you do have a problem with someone that sees a need to improve both sides. not at all. the problem is that if the side that you are on supply only is improved people waste more than ever and the ever growing number of suvs and large vehicles on the road is my proof wheres yours yes god forbid some pressure be put on americans to actually have some responsibility in the vehicles that they choose. oh please. youre such the hypocrite. you drive a huge gas guzzling vehicle. yep and a much more economical one as well and most of the time. you just do what so many lefties do and point out how worse others are as if that makes you ok and not part of the problem. lol more desperate right wing reasoning but you did make my point. people that are worse than me are more part of the problem than i am. i never claimed to be perfect but at least i try. that is correct and if you actually knew anything about national security or even the economy you would know why. oh thats right you have that right wing head in the sand idiotic belief that some other endless source of energy is magically going to appear when our oil supply runs out. rofl!! your logic false flat on its ass and heres why. you say we need to save our own oil for the future when foreigners run out. this is correct. problem is when that foreign oil does run out well be decades behind in developing our own sources. roflmao lets get real here. we have some oil packed away just for such a condition and it is highly unlikely that every well is going to run dry at the same time. we already have a good idea where oil is and have many well that are just not being pumped because it is cheaper to buy it from others. you wont even let anyone explore to see what we have for the future. really i didnt know that i had that ability the problem is that there is no such thing as exploring for oil. the only way to know is to drill the wells and in a fragile eco-system the damage is done whether oil is found or not. then there is that thing about the oil companies wanting to recoup their investments in your exploration and we both know how they do that. in the mean time youre letting others dictate a good portion of our economy and preventing any chance for finding oil for the future. lol we are dictating our own economy and dependence on other by the choices that we make in our lives. like you rightists like to say freedom isnt free and if you want the freedom to buy that huge house or vehicles then you also get the cost of supplying them with fuel. lol more moronic word twisting on your part. i drive my truck when i need it and my nissan the rest of the time and if others did the same our gas prices would be lower because their would be less demand for the existing supply. muhaha! its always others that cause the problem not the lefties that also own gas guzzlers. lol where did i say right or left i dont care what your political beliefs are if you drive one of these huge vehicles or live in one of these new mc mansions that are being built then you are part of the problem me included and you can either pay the cost or downsize. as long as someone else drives theirs more than you then its all their fault and not yours. never said that but you seem to feel that you have nothing to do with it yourself. good grief the old lefties logic of blaming others once again. lol more like opening my eyes and seeing the real problem something that you rightists with your heads either in the sand or up bushes ass cant seem to be able to do. i never said that i wasnt to blame myself but at least i try what about you get rid of your truck..period. hahahahahahahaha back to that childish right wing bs again. ill tell you what you get your ass over here with your truck every time i need to move something that wont fit in my car and move it for me and ill get rid of my truck. your nissan isnt exactly high mpg anyways. nope but its better than my truck and better than yours too. the next car will probably be a toyota convertible that gets around 30 mpg. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote it is nothing more than an established pattern of behavior. i guess that you want all the notification programs for child molesters eliminated as well because until they commit the crime again they are innocent. whoa typical lefty rant about a subject not even brought up now were talking about child molesters good grief. instead of your all too typical spin duck and run why dont you actually answer the question i agree but you never go there. all you ever talk about is increasing the supply never taking responsibility and trying to conserve. not so at all. i just do not do as you do and stop all attempts at increasing supply and at the same time blame everyone that drives an suv. i do no such thing but as in the established pattern of behavior mentioned above if you increase the supply you increase the waste because a high percentage of americans are dumb self centered and greedy. you also seem to forget that we use a considerable amount of oil for things other than gasoline. prices on those items have gone way up as well. sure it has because so much of the oil is being used for fuel to heat these new mc mansions and power up the ever growing number of suvs most of the cost of gasoline is not the price of a barrel of oil. lol but the cost is effected by the barrel price as well as typical american waste. we get a ton of oil from canada very little if any of that ends up as gas. do you have numbers cutting the consumption of gasoline will cause the costs of refinement and distrubution far more than the price of a barrel of oil. our demand for oil for other uses will not diminish because of fewer suvs. but less oil will be needed for gasoline and can be used for these other needs and that drops the price supply and demand. lol how would you know and their is far more to it besides just the environmental issues that you like to keep bringing up. by all means tell us all. i already covered these many times already. i would believe that if it were not for the simple fact that you are part of the far right. why ive already told you i support decreases in consumption as well as increased supply. please give me an example where that ever happened with a required expendable. if you increase supply and lower price what possible motivation is there to conserve. sadly many americans dont believe in such things to them its all me me me me and fuck the rest of you. can you do the same sure but i also know that it will never happen. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote lol more desperate right wing reasoning but you did make my point. people that are worse than me are more part of the problem than i am. i never claimed to be perfect but at least i try. most anyone can find someone worse than themselves and use it as an excuse for their own actions. your drive a guzzler...period. there are no excuses. you are a hypocrite no matter how much your drive it. roflmao lets get real here. we have some oil packed away just for such a condition and it is highly unlikely that every well is going to run dry at the same time. how much and where exactly is this oil there are some reserves to be used by the government for emergencies in the case opec decides on an embargo. none for the public use. well except for gores lame attempts. we already have a good idea where oil is and have many well that are just not being pumped because it is cheaper to buy it from others. bull. they have some ideas of where to explore. thats about it. it takes years of exploration and still longer to develop the infrastructure required to tap it refine it and distribute it. it will not happen quickly. you lefties have prevented exploratory drilling that the oil companies have wanted to do for decades. really i didnt know that i had that ability the problem is that there is no such thing as exploring for oil. the only way to know is to drill the wells and in a fragile eco-system the damage is done whether oil is found or not. oh please. here we go again. cant look for nor tap oil anywhere because of the eco-system. only radical lefties believe that everywhere there is oil is a fragile eco-system that would be destroyed. only radical lefties believe that all oil production everywhere in the world damages fragile eco-systems. then there is that thing about the oil companies wanting to recoup their investments in your exploration and we both know how they do that. they want to explore for future development. part of a standard plan for any business that looks to the future. they know theyll need something in 10 20 50 years etc. they also know that if we wait until its needed it will be too late. your belief that they already know where it is is flawed. even if they did it would take years to build the required infrastructure. lol we are dictating our own economy and dependence on other by the choices that we make in our lives. like you rightists like to say freedom isnt free and if you want the freedom to buy that huge house or vehicles then you also get the cost of supplying them with fuel. all the more reason to take care of ourselves and not rely on others to supply our needs. lol where did i say right or left i dont care what your political beliefs are if you drive one of these huge vehicles or live in one of these new mc mansions that are being built then you are part of the problem me included and you can either pay the cost or downsize. so lets see. you want everyone to drive small deathtrap econo cars and live in small houses and youll decide whats too big of a car for me and youll decide if my house is too big. youre right though. people can decide to pay the price. they do. but that doesnt mean they should support foreign dependancy. seems it is you who wish to make these decisions for others. let them make their own decisions rather than tell them what to drive and how big of a house to live in. never said that but you seem to feel that you have nothing to do with it yourself. our society is part of the problem. but i dont make excuses and say im doing my part by driving a smaller car part of the time. hahahahahahahaha back to that childish right wing bs again. ill tell you what you get your ass over here with your truck every time i need to move something that wont fit in my car and move it for me and ill get rid of my truck. ahh so there lies the problem. you need that guzzler to fullfill your needs whatever they may be. pretty much the same as everyone else. problem is to you your needs are justified but others are not. nope but its better than my truck and better than yours too. but its much worse than others. quit making excuses and whining about others. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol more desperate right wing reasoning but you did make my point. people that are worse than me are more part of the problem than i am. i never claimed to be perfect but at least i try. most anyone can find someone worse than themselves and use it as an excuse for their own actions. excuse for what actions your drive a guzzler...period. lol on / off only reasoning truly is a sign of limited intelligence. there are no excuses. excues for what you are a hypocrite no matter how much your drive it. are you really this desperate roflmao lets get real here. we have some oil packed away just for such a condition and it is highly unlikely that every well is going to run dry at the same time. how much and where exactly is this oil there are some reserves to be used by the government for emergencies in the case opec decides on an embargo. none for the public use. lol if the country was out of oil you can bet that it would become available for public use unless you think that a complete economic collapse and wide scale riots would somehow help the country. we already have a good idea where oil is and have many well that are just not being pumped because it is cheaper to buy it from others. bull. they have some ideas of where to explore. thats about it. bullshit. it takes years of exploration and still longer to develop the infrastructure required to tap it refine it and distribute it. it will not happen quickly. you lefties have prevented exploratory drilling that the oil companies have wanted to do for decades. hahahahahahahahaha how would us lefties be able to do that with a rightist government and president the only reason that exploratory drilling could be stopped is because the risk outweighed the potential benefit iow we have sufficient supply. really i didnt know that i had that ability the problem is that there is no such thing as exploring for oil. the only way to know is to drill the wells and in a fragile eco-system the damage is done whether oil is found or not. oh please. here we go again. cant look for nor tap oil anywhere because of the eco-system. i never said that that is just your right wing paranoia again. only radical lefties believe that everywhere there is oil is a fragile eco-system that would be destroyed. only radical lefties believe that all oil production everywhere in the world damages fragile eco-systems. agreed that is why so many wells already exist and the harm that they may cause is accepted but that doesnt mean that you can destroy anything you want just to get cheap fuel. then there is that thing about the oil companies wanting to recoup their investments in your exploration and we both know how they do that. they want to explore for future development. bullshit they want to pump oil and make a shit load of money asap before a new possible source of energy comes to light if any exist. part of a standard plan for any business that looks to the future. they know theyll need something in 10 20 50 years etc. they also know that if we wait until its needed it will be too late. now your logic is flawed. waiting until it is needed also includes the time it will take to begin extracting it. your belief that they already know where it is is flawed. even if they did it would take years to build the required infrastructure. lol most of that infrastructure already exists. lol we are dictating our own economy and dependence on other by the choices that we make in our lives. like you rightists like to say freedom isnt free and if you want the freedom to buy that huge house or vehicles then you also get the cost of supplying them with fuel. all the more reason to take care of ourselves and not rely on others to supply our needs. but thats the problem. we are not taking care of ourselves. any way you look at it we do not have the reserves to fulfill our whorish rate of consumption and any attempt to try just seems to make it worse. lol where did i say right or left i dont care what your political beliefs are if you drive one of these huge vehicles or live in one of these new mc mansions that are being built then you are part of the problem me included and you can either pay the cost or downsize. so lets see. you want everyone to drive small deathtrap econo cars and live in small houses and youll decide whats too big of a car for me and youll decide if my house is too big. once again you go into the right wing panic spin and start the baseless accusations. i made no direct judgments on the size of anyones home or what they drive. i am simply defining the problem and any way you try to spin or justify it our desires for huge houses and big powerful cars is the primary cause for our dependency on foreign oil period! and if we were to increase the supply all it would do is increase t

From : miles

tbone wrote lol if the country was out of oil you can bet that it would become available for public use unless you think that a complete economic collapse and wide scale riots would somehow help the country. like in the 70s the reserves are only about 600 million barrels. think thats going to last long they werent intended for public use. hahahahahahahahaha how would us lefties be able to do that with a rightist government and president the only reason that exploratory drilling could be stopped is because the risk outweighed the potential benefit iow we have sufficient supply. that was true decades ago. the cost to tap oil per barrel in the 70s was about 2/3s of the selling price. todays barrel at $40 is more than double the cost to tap it. the incentive for imports just isnt there like it was. doesnt matter when it comes to exploratory drilling. oil companies know their future is here not overseas. agreed that is why so many wells already exist and the harm that they may cause is accepted but that doesnt mean that you can destroy anything you want just to get cheap fuel. theres no middle ground is there you seem to think were already right in the middle and everything is all grand. is there no way to find and tap new oil without unacceptable damage bullshit they want to pump oil and make a shit load of money asap before a new possible source of energy comes to light if any exist. sigh. believe it or not companies do look towards the future all the time. its called planning. now your logic is flawed. waiting until it is needed also includes the time it will take to begin extracting it. exactly. in order for them to have something to pump in 20 years they have to start looking for it today. lol most of that infrastructure already exists. oh my. you need to research the sorry state of us oil production and refinement. distribution is even worse. but thats the problem. we are not taking care of ourselves. any way you look at it we do not have the reserves to fulfill our whorish rate of consumption and any attempt to try just seems to make it worse. hmm...didnt you imply if foreign oil dried up wed just tap the huge reserves we have and everything would be great once again you go into the right wing panic spin and start the baseless accusations. i made no direct judgments on the size of anyones home or what they drive. i am simply defining the problem and any way you try to spin or justify it our desires for huge houses and big powerful cars is the primary cause for our dependency on foreign oil period! and if we were to increase the supply all it would do is increase the demand and run us out of oil even faster. its not so much about increasing supply as it is ending dependency on others. sure it does wake up dude. no matter how much drilling we do we simply do not have enough oil to keep up with the ever growing demand for long and that is based on peoples decisions. so if they feel that they must have that 4500 sqr/ft home even though there are only two people in the family and they both feel the need to have some huge vehicles then they are also agreeing to support foreign dependancy. why if we have so much oil that we already know about according to you that is because you dont. um ya i do drive a small car as well. but i dont use it as an excuse to justify my guzzler as you do. lol i dont care what you or anyone else drives but i find it funny that the people who drive the bigger vehicles and need them the least complain the most. i do have an actual need for my truck do you probably not. who defines need oh ya you do. people define their own needs. but here you are trying to tell me if i have a need or not per your definition of need. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol if the country was out of oil you can bet that it would become available for public use unless you think that a complete economic collapse and wide scale riots would somehow help the country. like in the 70s the reserves are only about 600 million barrels. think thats going to last long they werent intended for public use. lol do you really think that they didnt put away much more oil after that one. for many years we were importing much more oil than we were using where do you think that oil went. the difference is that shortage was temporary and yes it did cause economic problems for years. imagine what will happen if it were permanent and that is the direction this country is going. talk about history repeating itself. hahahahahahahahaha how would us lefties be able to do that with a rightist government and president the only reason that exploratory drilling could be stopped is because the risk outweighed the potential benefit iow we have sufficient supply. that was true decades ago. and it is true today. i dont see any rationing or stations shutting down because they are out of fuel. the cost to tap oil per barrel in the 70s was about 2/3s of the selling price. todays barrel at $40 is more than double the cost to tap it. are you taking into account the increased costs to tap it. the incentive for imports just isnt there like it was. doesnt matter when it comes to exploratory drilling. oil companies know their future is here not overseas. oil companies could give a rats ass where it comes from. either way they still make money. agreed that is why so many wells already exist and the harm that they may cause is accepted but that doesnt mean that you can destroy anything you want just to get cheap fuel. theres no middle ground is there you seem to think were already right in the middle and everything is all grand. is there no way to find and tap new oil without unacceptable damage you just dont seem to be able to see the forest through the trees. the problem is the unnecessary rapidly increasing rate of consumption in this country. oil is a finite resource and when its gone its gone. now we can either do it your way and go full speed into the wall or you can control the supply and slow it down some. this is a perfect example of what i was talking about with you. all you ever say is tap new oil how about conserving some of the oil we already have why is this so difficult for you. bullshit they want to pump oil and make a shit load of money asap before a new possible source of energy comes to light if any exist. sigh. believe it or not companies do look towards the future all the time. its called planning. oh yea like mci enron and so many others. now your logic is flawed. waiting until it is needed also includes the time it will take to begin extracting it. exactly. in order for them to have something to pump in 20 years they have to start looking for it today. and what is all of this exploratory drilling turns up nothing we should be looking for better ways and begin some conservation now and the only thing that will motivate that is high prices and limited availability. lol most of that infrastructure already exists. oh my. you need to research the sorry state of us oil production and refinement. distribution is even worse. we can build these things much faster than you think. but thats the problem. we are not taking care of ourselves. any way you look at it we do not have the reserves to fulfill our whorish rate of consumption and any attempt to try just seems to make it worse. hmm...didnt you imply if foreign oil dried up wed just tap the huge reserves we have and everything would be great no i said that we have enough to keep the country running for a while nothing more. but at the ever increasing rate of consumption that time grows shorter by the day. once again you go into the right wing panic spin and start the baseless accusations. i made no direct judgments on the size of anyones home or what they drive. i am simply defining the problem and any way you try to spin or justify it our desires for huge houses and big powerful cars is the primary cause for our dependency on foreign oil period! and if we were to increase the supply all it would do is increase the demand and run us out of oil even faster. its not so much about increasing supply as it is ending dependency on others. you really need to start thinking long term. the first one to run out of oil loses and with our whorish rate of consumption doing it your way would make it us. and btw with the mass outsourcing of jobs to other countries we are already completely dependant on others. funny how you right wingers talk about the global economy when it suits you and pretend that it doesnt exist when it doesnt. sure it does wake up

From : milesh

tbone wrote lol i jutify nothing. it is funny that you talk about middle ground when it comes to drilling oil but otherwise its all or nothing. because i own a truck according to you i cant say anything about anyone else and thats complete bs. sure i own it and even drive it but i dont use it for commuting because that is just wasting fuel and my money. i have a big house too but i dont set the heat at 80 in the winter or the ac at 70 in the summer even though i could because it wastes energy and again my money. muhaha! too funny! first you yell at people with gas guzzlers then you yell at people with big houses. now you tell me you have both but use them responsibly according to your definition of such and others do not according to your definition. the left consumes every bit as much as the right and youre proof. you like to call economy cars death traps why is that increasing the distance between the point of impact and the occupants greatly increases their chance of survival. larger vehicles do have a higher survival rate. there are some exceptions but they are not the rule. lets take a ford escort head on into a dodge ram. who is more likely to survive ill keep my family in a large vehicle you go right on ahead and put yours in a tin can death trap. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol i jutify nothing. it is funny that you talk about middle ground when it comes to drilling oil but otherwise its all or nothing. because i own a truck according to you i cant say anything about anyone else and thats complete bs. sure i own it and even drive it but i dont use it for commuting because that is just wasting fuel and my money. i have a big house too but i dont set the heat at 80 in the winter or the ac at 70 in the summer even though i could because it wastes energy and again my money. muhaha! too funny! first you yell at people with gas guzzlers then you yell at people with big houses. now you tell me you have both but use them responsibly according to your definition of such and others do not according to your definition. the left consumes every bit as much as the right and youre proof. roflmao got proof. everybody uses energy regardless of left or right and i wont even say which side may or may not use more. all that i am saying is that our dependency on others is nobodys fault but our own. my house is big but not compared to the mc mansions that are being built now and yes i do try to be responsible about my decisions. what about you mr. drill anywhere and everywhere you like to call economy cars death traps why is that increasing the distance between the point of impact and the occupants greatly increases their chance of survival. larger vehicles do have a higher survival rate. there are some exceptions but they are not the rule. lets take a ford escort head on into a dodge ram. who is more likely to survive ill keep my family in a large vehicle you go right on ahead and put yours in a tin can death trap. lol i thought that you were going to say that. larger vehicles only have a higher survival rate when they hit a small one. when two of these monsters hit each other... this is what i mean about responsibility. because you have a large group of people that have to drive these monsters for really no other reason than to boost their egos it makes it unsafe for others to drive more economical vehicles. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : miles

tbone wrote because you have a large group of people that have to drive these monsters for really no other reason than to boost their egos no other reason people buy what they need. your trouble is that you have defined what need is for yourself as well as everyone else. if you say you need your truck so be it. i say i need my truck and you whine that i probably do not scroll back a few if you forgot what you said. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote because you have a large group of people that have to drive these monsters for really no other reason than to boost their egos no other reason people buy what they need. lol no miles they buy what they want and sometimes its what they need as well. please explain the need for a navigator escalade or any other of these high line low mileage luxury cars masquerading as suvs and remember we are talking about actual need not desire. your trouble is that you have defined what need is for yourself as well as everyone else. wrong again. the dictionary defines need and you just like to hide behind your distorted picture of it. if you say you need your truck so be it. i say i need my truck and you whine that i probably do not scroll back a few if you forgot what you said. perhaps you should scroll back and point out exactly where you said you needed it. any way you look at it the reason that we have become so dependent on foreign oil is due to our own desires so either change your lifestyle or live with the results as responsibility dictates. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote lol no miles they buy what they want and sometimes its what they need as well. please explain the need for a navigator escalade or any other of these high line low mileage luxury cars masquerading as suvs and remember we are talking about actual need not desire. i see. you seem to have defined need as something of a utility/work purpose required by a person. anything else appears to be a want to you. more often than not a persons needs are based on their wants in life. there are many ways to accomplish required needs. you say you need your truck for a particular purpose. the truck is not the only solution but is the one you want because it satisfies your needs and wants the best. people have large suvs because they need something that can fit a family without being crowded can carry plenty of luggage and is very comfortable to drive and often capable of towing a boat or trailer. all of which can only be defined by the individual and not you. a minivan doesnt satisfy that need. wrong again. the dictionary defines need and you just like to hide behind your distorted picture of it. not so in your case. you do not need your truck. you want it because you see it as your preferred method for your wants and needs. quit trying to define what others needs are based on your own definition. it would be a pretty sad world if peoples lives were based solely on so called required needs to exist and function. .

From : paul jensen

no other reason people buy what they need. your trouble is that you have defined what need is for yourself as well as everyone else. this is america. people can buy what they want. but some people want to tell us what we can and cannot buy. they dont like freedom. .

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol no miles they buy what they want and sometimes its what they need as well. please explain the need for a navigator escalade or any other of these high line low mileage luxury cars masquerading as suvs and remember we are talking about actual need not desire. i see. you seem to have defined need as something of a utility/work purpose required by a person. yep. anything else appears to be a want to you. that is correct by definition. more often than not a persons needs are based on their wants in life. then they are no longer needs. there are many ways to accomplish required needs. yes there are and the methods that we choose have a signiificant effect on our depndency on others. like i was saying all along. you say you need your truck for a particular purpose. this is correct. the truck is not the only solution but is the one you want because it satisfies your needs and wants the best. please name some others. people have large suvs because they need something that can fit a family without being crowded can carry plenty of luggage and is very comfortable to drive and often capable of towing a boat or trailer. lol you have probably defined about 5% of the people that own them. what do the rest that own them want them for all of which can only be defined by the individual and not you. completely incorrect. a minivan doesnt satisfy that need. why not wrong again. the dictionary defines need and you just like to hide behind your distorted picture of it. not so in your case. you do not need your truck. you want it because you see it as your preferred method for your wants and needs. i thought that you said that i didnt need it and now you say that it is the prefered method for my needs. talk about spin. then you keep forgetting that i dont use it for my primary means of transportation i use it when i need to haul things. what other method do you have quit trying to define what others needs are based on your own definition. quit trying to hide behind your right wing spin and stop using bs justifications to mask desires behind actual needs. funny how we all managed to move our families and tow things prior to the suv existing. it would be a pretty sad world if peoples lives were based solely on so called required needs to exist and function. i agree but that still doesnt change reality or the real world. the facts remain the same if people feel the need to buy these huge houses and vehicles for no real purpose our need for foreign oil will increase as well for no real purpose. now i know that you want to just keep drilling but that solves nothing. all that will do is make the problem worse and make it all the harder to deal with when the oil supply does run out and we both know that it will and probably in our lifetimes if we stay on our current path. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : tbone

tbone wrote lol i see that the conservative spin machine is in high gear. while some of the higher paying jobs have stayed management what happens to all of the people here who worked those lower paying jobs and dont give me the wight wing spin that they will move up to those higher paying jobs because they simply dont exist. lol lefty spin at its worst. if they didnt outsource the company cant remain competitive and shuts down. more right wing bs. while that might be true for some companies now it wasnt when they started doing it. many like ibm and m$ have no real competition and are doing for no other reason but to increase stock value and attract investors you know the ones with that extra few million thanks to the bush bs tax cuts. guess what happens to the jobs if they do outsource the low paying jobs the company stays in business. if you think that all of the current outsourcing is due to that you dont know as much as you think. sales allow more jobs than just your management. yea more low paying jobs and that is only if the outsourcing generates more sales and since companies seldom lower prices that is unlikely. then you can add all the newly unemployed people that dont have the money to spend any more and sales can actually go down. the companies dont care much about this because their labor costs are now so much lower they can absorb the loss and still make more money. hell they can probably lay off some sales and shipping staff as well and further bump up the profits. what about sales force packaging distribution what about indirect labor boosts at wholesalers and retailers read above. the choice is to lose it all or lose some and gain in others. so you take the lose everything approach good plan. the problem is that their are seldom gains anywhere except for the pockets of the company leaders and possibly the larger stockholders. that is yet another myth. how do you get increased sales when your customer base in unemployed. it is their main customers are the companies own employees oh now thats funny but creative spin!! lol this only proves that you really dont know anywhere near what you think that you do. i never said that any specific company runs on the spending of their own employees but nice attempt at spin. but when a company lets a large group of people go they reduce the customer base for everyone. if this causes other companies to layoff to save money the customer base gets smaller yet. you do know how a recession works right btw how many companies actually lowered prices after shifting their point of production to another country their prices are lower than if they continued to try to remain competative without outsourcing the low end jobs. and you know this how they dont do it to lower prices they do it to increase profits only. increased or just hold onto the margins they have as labor costs go up somethings gotta give. lol why do labor rates have to go up. with the exception of union shops or possible contracts if the economy doesnt warrants it wages can be held as is. either profits go down or costs have to be cut. i know all companies are greedy cash cows that just want more and more. the liberal spin. it is not a liberal spin. many times you hear that the stock holders come first. that is pure greed and nothing more. you are the one talking about all this insourcing. where is it you keep going on about the automotive industry so how many cars are built completely in the us. how many are even fully assembled here anymore quite a number of them. that is not an answer. my two nissans were american designed and built. my dodge on the other hand was entirely made in mexico. gee now who sells more cars nissan or dc simple make it somewhat unproffitable to do it if your outsourced employment exceeds a certain percentage. hell japan has put maassive restrictions on us for what we can import. it is about time we begin doing the same thing. you seem to think a companies sales are only in this country. these companies outsource so they remain competitive not only in the usa but also worldwide. bullshit. just a quick look at our current trade deficits shows that to be meaningless. look at why steel prices are sky high now. in an effort to save steel workers jobs high tarrifs were enacted on steel. sure it helped their job but has severely hurt others. you dont think high steel prices have hurt the industrial manufacturing market what manufacturing market if we had it your way all steel production in the us would cease. yea that will make this country real strong in a time of war when we need to import our military parts from overseas because we no longer have the capability to do it here. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving .

From : milesh

tbone wrote people have large suvs because they need something that can fit a family without being crowded can carry plenty of luggage and is very comfortable to drive and often capable of towing a boat or trailer. lol you have probably defined about 5% of the people that own them. what do the rest that own them want them for rofl more speculation by you. prove it. no speculation or guesses just prove it. they buy what solves their needs and not your needs. i dont recall anyone telling you what you should buy. you bought what you wanted. all of which can only be defined by the individual and not you. completely incorrect. oh man too funny. you admit that youre the one trying to define what a solution should be for someone elses needs. good grief. a minivan doesnt satisfy that need. why not because it doesnt. now as stated above you are attempting to tell people what they should use to solve their need when they are the only ones that know their own needs not you. i thought that you said that i didnt need it and now you say that it is the prefered method for my needs. talk about spin. no spin. you defined your needs not me nor anyone else nor some dictionary. thats exactly what youre trying to put onto others. then you keep forgetting that i dont use it for my primary means of transportation i use it when i need to haul things. what other method do you have i cant define your wants and needs. only you can. but somehow you can define others needs and solutions. quit trying to hide behind your right wing spin and stop using bs justifications to mask desires behind actual needs. funny how we all managed to move our families and tow things prior to the suv existing. ya we used full sized trucks for towing and a large station wagon for hauling the family around. not to mention the full sized vans that were popular. besides large suvs have been around for decades they just werent called suvs. the suburban full sized wagoneer and others have existed since the 70s and prior. i agree but that still doesnt change reality or the real world. the facts remain the same if people feel the need to buy these huge houses and vehicles for no real purpose so we should all be crammed into small cars and small houses that will improve the quality of life .