2000 Dodge 2500 transmission problems...A Link
From : marsh monster
Q: ======= ======= the fact that the description of the sensor/pcm functions precedes mention of the switch does not remotely imply that the sensor functions are seperate from or override the switch position. if the tcc lu was independent of the control switch there would be no mention of the switch position since the primary funcrtion of the control switch is to control the od function. the simple fact that the fsm describes the function of the switch in relation to the tcc proves that the switch position is the determining factor in tcc lu. ============ ============ ive got a headache............ so......if you want one toooo......... read the info in the link ive provided and be prewarned its a complicated smithering of over information. max is not only correct but...... i was so wrong. i stand corrected. heres a link i was sent by greater minds on my queery to some online info to the workings of a 47re and computer logic that i could post here. http//www.freepatentsonline.com/5115698.htmlhighlight=torqu%20convertortorque%20convertor.0chryslerchrysler.0 marsh .
Replies:
From : max dodge
ive got a headache............ so......if you want one toooo......... read the info in the link ive provided and be prewarned its a complicated smithering of over information. max is not only correct but...... i was so wrong. i stand corrected. heres a link i was sent by greater minds on my queery to some online info to the workings of a 47re and computer logic that i could post here. marsh is there a way to see the entire patent all i saw was the abstract. also take a look at the wiring diagrams for the pcm as they show more clearly that the switch is more an input than a direct switch. -- max there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author ======= ======= the fact that the description of the sensor/pcm functions precedes mention of the switch does not remotely imply that the sensor functions are seperate from or override the switch position. if the tcc lu was independent of the control switch there would be no mention of the switch position since the primary funcrtion of the control switch is to control the od function. the simple fact that the fsm describes the function of the switch in relation to the tcc proves that the switch position is the determining factor in tcc lu. ============ ============ ive got a headache............ so......if you want one toooo......... read the info in the link ive provided and be prewarned its a complicated smithering of over information. max is not only correct but...... i was so wrong. i stand corrected. heres a link i was sent by greater minds on my queery to some online info to the workings of a 47re and computer logic that i could post here. http//www.freepatentsonline.com/5115698.htmlhighlight=torqu%20convertortorque%20convertor.0chryslerchrysler.0 marsh .
From : john kunkel
heres a link i was sent by greater minds on my queery to some online info to the workings of a 47re and computer logic that i could post here. a more accurate example of the adaptive transmission would be the front wheel drive transaxles such as the 40te 41te ultradrive. marsh is there a way to see the entire patent all i saw was the abstract. also take a look at the wiring diagrams for the pcm as they show more clearly that the switch is more an input than a direct switch. there are many examples where the control switch merely supplies a ground but what that ground does is whats in debate. if the insides of the pcm were mechanical rather than electrical the ground supplied by the od control switch would control the coil of a multi-pole relay which would in turn control the tcc lu sequence according to the switch position just like the book says. in reality diodes probably perform the function. i use the word probably because unlike max i realize that one can only postulate as to the actual internal workings inside the pcm. .
From : john kunkel
word games the ground provided by the overdrive control switch has the ability to activate any number of separate circuits that control the tcc lu sequence as the fsm clearly states. nope not word games bullshit spin by you. you seem to think the pcm needs another ground in order to operate the lu solenoid. but the fact is it obviously already has one. you claim that the od switch is merely a ground for something yet the fsm shows/says it to be an input/signal not a toggle. more word games if the momentary contact switch provides a ground that triggers a control circuit the control circuit does the toggling. the momentary contact switches in a magnetic motor starter work the exact same way they normally work with mechanical circuit controls but the effect is the same; the control circuit stays energized long after the momentary contact is made. tomato tomahto; the point is that the od switch provides a single ground source that configures the internals of the pcm to engage the tcc depending on the switch position as the pcm clearly states. and my point is that configuration would work as you claim if it were solid state technology. given that the fsm state the pcm is adaptive and can therefore change its programming to suit the driving conditions its nt simply a matter of configuring but more a matter of yet another input to the pcm. where does it say in the fsm that the pcm is adaptive as such claiming that the od switch makes any specific change to the pcm operation of the cclu function would be an assumption that you have already denounced as impossible. the od switch makes no change in the initial programming of the pcm never said it did; another distortion. what the od switch does is select between programmed parameters. .
From : max dodge
where does it say in the fsm that the pcm is adaptive 2000 fsm page 21-351 section operation first paragraph the pcm is a preprogrammed triple microprocessor digital computer. it regulates ignition timing air-fuel ratio emission control devices charging system certain transmission features speed control air conditioning compressor clutch engagement and idel speed. next sentence is important the pcm can adapt its programming to meet changing operating conditions. 2000 fsm page 21 352 section pcm diesel sub section operation third paragraph the pcm can adapt its programming to meet changing operating conditions. you wanted clear there it is. the od switch makes no change in the initial programming of the pcm never said it did; another distortion. what the od switch does is select between programmed parameters. terrific but can you say for sure what those parameters are the fsm is contradictory about it obviously because the pcm is allowed to adapt to driving conditions. try reading more than one paragraph. -- max there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author word games the ground provided by the overdrive control switch has the ability to activate any number of separate circuits that control the tcc lu sequence as the fsm clearly states. nope not word games bullshit spin by you. you seem to think the pcm needs another ground in order to operate the lu solenoid. but the fact is it obviously already has one. you claim that the od switch is merely a ground for something yet the fsm shows/says it to be an input/signal not a toggle. more word games if the momentary contact switch provides a ground that triggers a control circuit the control circuit does the toggling. the momentary contact switches in a magnetic motor starter work the exact same way they normally work with mechanical circuit controls but the effect is the same; the control circuit stays energized long after the momentary contact is made. tomato tomahto; the point is that the od switch provides a single ground source that configures the internals of the pcm to engage the tcc depending on the switch position as the pcm clearly states. and my point is that configuration would work as you claim if it were solid state technology. given that the fsm state the pcm is adaptive and can therefore change its programming to suit the driving conditions its nt simply a matter of configuring but more a matter of yet another input to the pcm. where does it say in the fsm that the pcm is adaptive as such claiming that the od switch makes any specific change to the pcm operation of the cclu function would be an assumption that you have already denounced as impossible. the od switch makes no change in the initial programming of the pcm never said it did; another distortion. what the od switch does is select between programmed parameters. .
From : marsh monster
.. .. top post .. .. ill look it over again i spent some time on it last night till it made my eyeballs roll and gave me a headache. the jargon got a bit fuzzy after a while and i was reading but not understanding so i took a couple ibupropens and figured on takeing another gander tonight. once i found the part about lockup in 3rd and fourth being part of the programed logic i called it quits. ill take another look at it later tonight. marsh sips his crownroyal prepares for study ===== ===== max dodge wrote marsh is there a way to see the entire patent all i saw was the abstract. also take a look at the wiring diagrams for the pcm as they show more clearly that the switch is more an input than a direct switch. -- max there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author heres a link i was sent by greater minds on my queery to some online info to the workings of a 47re and computer logic that i could post here. http//www.freepatentsonline.com/5115698.htmlhighlight=torqu%20convertortorque%20convertor.0chryslerchrysler.0 marsh .
From : max dodge
there are many examples where the control switch merely supplies a ground but what that ground does is whats in debate. false. the debate is what the internals of the pcm do with the ground. you assume that the ground toggles the solenoid. being a bit less presumptuous i figure if thats all they wanted the switch to do it could simply have done that directly no need to involve the pcm. if the insides of the pcm were mechanical rather than electrical the ground supplied by the od control switch would control the coil of a multi-pole relay which would in turn control the tcc lu sequence according to the switch position just like the book says. in reality diodes probably perform the function. except that what you describe is solid state technology not a microprocessor control system such as a pcm. i use the word probably because unlike max i realize that one can only postulate as to the actual internal workings inside the pcm. true but i suggest that they are a bit more complex than a solid state relay given that the system is microprocessor controlled. -- max there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author heres a link i was sent by greater minds on my queery to some online info to the workings of a 47re and computer logic that i could post here. a more accurate example of the adaptive transmission would be the front wheel drive transaxles such as the 40te 41te ultradrive. marsh is there a way to see the entire patent all i saw was the abstract. also take a look at the wiring diagrams for the pcm as they show more clearly that the switch is more an input than a direct switch. there are many examples where the control switch merely supplies a ground but what that ground does is whats in debate. if the insides of the pcm were mechanical rather than electrical the ground supplied by the od control switch would control the coil of a multi-pole relay which would in turn control the tcc lu sequence according to the switch position just like the book says. in reality diodes probably perform the function. i use the word probably because unlike max i realize that one can only postulate as to the actual internal workings inside the pcm. .
From : john kunkel
there are many examples where the control switch merely supplies a ground but what that ground does is whats in debate. false. the debate is what the internals of the pcm do with the ground. you assume that the ground toggles the solenoid. never came close to saying that what i said was direct quote its more likely that when the od switch is closed it provides a ground for a circuit that controls the clutch lockup sequence as is clearly stated in the enclosed fsm quote. http//pro.imagehost.biz/ims/pictes/356691.jpg i figure if thats all they wanted the switch to do it could simply have done that directly no need to involve the pcm. if the insides of the pcm were mechanical rather than electrical the ground supplied by the od control switch would control the coil of a multi-pole relay which would in turn control the tcc lu sequence according to the switch position just like the book says. in reality diodes probably perform the function. except that what you describe is solid state technology not a microprocessor control system such as a pcm. word games the ground provided by the overdrive control switch has the ability to activate any number of separate circuits that control the tcc lu sequence as the fsm clearly states. i use the word probably because unlike max i realize that one can only postulate as to the actual internal workings inside the pcm. true but i suggest that they are a bit more complex than a solid state relay given that the system is microprocessor controlled. tomato tomahto; the point is that the od switch provides a single ground source that configures the internals of the pcm to engage the tcc depending on the switch position as the pcm clearly states. .
From : max dodge
word games the ground provided by the overdrive control switch has the ability to activate any number of separate circuits that control the tcc lu sequence as the fsm clearly states. nope not word games bullshit spin by you. you seem to think the pcm needs another ground in order to operate the lu solenoid. but the fact is it obviously already has one. you claim that the od switch is merely a ground for something yet the fsm shows/says it to be an input/signal not a toggle. tomato tomahto; the point is that the od switch provides a single ground source that configures the internals of the pcm to engage the tcc depending on the switch position as the pcm clearly states. and my point is that configuration would work as you claim if it were solid state technology. given that the fsm state the pcm is adaptive and can therefore change its programming to suit the driving conditions its nt simply a matter of configuring but more a matter of yet another input to the pcm. as such claiming that the od switch makes any specific change to the pcm operation of the cclu function would be an assumption that you have already denounced as impossible. -- max there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author there are many examples where the control switch merely supplies a ground but what that ground does is whats in debate. false. the debate is what the internals of the pcm do with the ground. you assume that the ground toggles the solenoid. never came close to saying that what i said was direct quote its more likely that when the od switch is closed it provides a ground for a circuit that controls the clutch lockup sequence as is clearly stated in the enclosed fsm quote. http//pro.imagehost.biz/ims/pictes/356691.jpg i figure if thats all they wanted the switch to do it could simply have done that directly no need to involve the pcm. if the insides of the pcm were mechanical rather than electrical the ground supplied by the od control switch would control the coil of a multi-pole relay which would in turn control the tcc lu sequence according to the switch position just like the book says. in reality diodes probably perform the function. except that what you describe is solid state technology not a microprocessor control system such as a pcm. word games the ground provided by the overdrive control switch has the ability to activate any number of separate circuits that control the tcc lu sequence as the fsm clearly states. i use the word probably because unlike max i realize that one can only postulate as to the actual internal workings inside the pcm. true but i suggest that they are a bit more complex than a solid state relay given that the system is microprocessor controlled. tomato tomahto; the point is that the od switch provides a single ground source that configures the internals of the pcm to engage the tcc depending on the switch position as the pcm clearly states. .
From : max dodge
and youre hanging your whole argument on one even more ambiguous sentence that you seem to think is the holy grail of the max doctrine you have proved nothing and the perceived proof you offer was plagiarized. the sentence is far from ambiguous it says quite plainly that the pcm is capable of adaptive programming. any interpretation otherwise is merely a product of your wishful thinking. the proof i offer certainly was plagerized since it was copied word for word out of the fsm a book you claim to be familiar with. hang in there scotty some day you might actually find something on your own that is actually as earth shaking as your ego would have you believe it is. i dont think any of this is earth shaking. what is out of proportion is the amount of spin and bullshit you come up with when proven wrong. -- max there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author bullshit your stock and trade. only one bullshitting is you having hung your entire argument on the one section that is ambiguous and leaving the one line that provides the proof that the pcm adapts as it finds necessary. and youre hanging your whole argument on one even more ambiguous sentence that you seem to think is the holy grail of the max doctrine you have proved nothing and the perceived proof you offer was plagiarized. hang in there scotty some day you might actually find something on your own that is actually as earth shaking as your ego would have you believe it is. .
From : john kunkel
bullshit your stock and trade. only one bullshitting is you having hung your entire argument on the one section that is ambiguous and leaving the one line that provides the proof that the pcm adapts as it finds necessary. and youre hanging your whole argument on one even more ambiguous sentence that you seem to think is the holy grail of the max doctrine you have proved nothing and the perceived proof you offer was plagiarized. hang in there scotty some day you might actually find something on your own that is actually as earth shaking as your ego would have you believe it is. .
From : john kunkel
where does it say in the fsm that the pcm is adaptive 2000 fsm page 21-351 section operation first paragraph the pcm is a preprogrammed triple microprocessor digital computer. it regulates ignition timing air-fuel ratio emission control devices charging system certain transmission features speed control air conditioning compressor clutch engagement and idel speed. next sentence is important the pcm can adapt its programming to meet changing operating conditions. ok you finally produced with help evidence that could support your version so ill acquiesce but dont go pounding your chest. mm gets the credit and your failure to produce any convincing proof until two weeks into the debate proves that your previous offerings were merely your typical bullshit. .
From : max dodge
ok you finally produced with help evidence that could support your version so ill acquiesce but dont go pounding your chest. mm gets the credit and your failure to produce any convincing proof until two weeks into the debate proves that your previous offerings were merely your typical bullshit. that line was in the sections i quoted three days ago. that you missed it is not my fault. i needed no help in finding the stuff ive read the trans section more than few times and certainly well before this discussion. your claim that i produced nothing till two weeks in is your typical attempt to divert attention from the fact that you obviously havent read as much about these transmissions as you would like to think. when i said it was capable of cclu two weeks ago i assumed that you were capable of reading the manual and finding the information on your own. that i had to spoon feed it to you and that you were only convinced after mm produced a patent for the system and i all but rammed the fsm down your throat speaks volumes about your ability to learn. next time read the fsm instead of claiming you know it all. -- max there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author where does it say in the fsm that the pcm is adaptive 2000 fsm page 21-351 section operation first paragraph the pcm is a preprogrammed triple microprocessor digital computer. it regulates ignition timing air-fuel ratio emission control devices charging system certain transmission features speed control air conditioning compressor clutch engagement and idel speed. next sentence is important the pcm can adapt its programming to meet changing operating conditions. ok you finally produced with help evidence that could support your version so ill acquiesce but dont go pounding your chest. mm gets the credit and your failure to produce any convincing proof until two weeks into the debate proves that your previous offerings were merely your typical bullshit. .
From : john kunkel
ok you finally produced with help evidence that could support your version so ill acquiesce but dont go pounding your chest. mm gets the credit and your failure to produce any convincing proof until two weeks into the debate proves that your previous offerings were merely your typical bullshit. that line was in the sections i quoted three days ago. that you missed it is not my fault. i needed no help in finding the stuff ive read the trans section more than few times and certainly well before this discussion. yea youve read it so well that you hung your initial arguments on everything in the book except the adaptive feature mm had to lead you down that path. and dont try the old i knew it all along bullshit. youve tactics are all too obvious. your claim that i produced nothing till two weeks in is your typical attempt to divert attention from the fact that you obviously havent read as much about these transmissions as you would like to think. when i said it was capable of cclu two weeks ago i assumed that you were capable of reading the manual and finding the information on your own. bullshit if you had the info two weeks ago why did you initially hang your argument solely on a short paragraph describing sensor input and then hammer on the semantics surrounding the control switch input etc why didnt you play the adaptive card back then because you didnt know. that i had to spoon feed it to you and that you were only convinced after mm produced a patent for the system and i all but rammed the fsm down your throat speaks volumes about your ability to learn. you spoon fed me nothing im fully aware of adaptive technology as it relates to the transaxle cars ive disconnected a few batteries to make the transmission relearn. before you gloat in your perceived victory be aware that all you have collectively proved is that the pcm controls certain transmission features we already knew that and that the pcm can adapt its programming to meet changing operating conditions. the last sentence is obscure enough as to leave doubt as to exactly which transmission functions it adapts its programming for. a few posts back you were insisting on exact wording and now youre satisfied that youve proven your point by citing obscure quotes from the fsm there is no direct quote as to which transmission features it adapts its programming to. you have not offered any exact proof that you continually insist that others must provide. there is enough reasonable doubt as to leave the debate open ended. next time read the fsm instead of claiming you know it all. you claim that youve been reading the fsm for many years and have total understanding of it yet you come up with bizarre shit like your reset theory your feedback theory your bleeddown theory etc. all of which are a product of your vivid imagination. it took someone else to lead you to the evidence that was right under your nose and you chide me for not seeing it. bullshit your stock and trade. .
From : max dodge
yea youve read it so well that you hung your initial arguments on everything in the book except the adaptive feature mm had to lead you down that path. and dont try the old i knew it all along bullshit. youve tactics are all too obvious. yeah i use facts and read the manual. bullshit if you had the info two weeks ago why did you initially hang your argument solely on a short paragraph describing sensor input and then hammer on the semantics surrounding the control switch input etc why didnt you play the adaptive card back then because you didnt know. because the semantics surrounding the control switch input seemed to be what wasnt obvious to you. the fact that the adaptive control was stated in so many words i felt was obvious and i figured you would have read it therefore no need to explain it to such an informed individual as yourself. im obviously wrong about your ability to read the obvious and i apologize for not pointing out the obvious much earlier. you spoon fed me nothing im fully aware of adaptive technology as it relates to the transaxle cars ive disconnected a few batteries to make the transmission relearn. i suspected as much thats why it came as such a surprise to me that you would actually ask where does it say the transmission has anything adaptive i figured you would not only know about the adaptive technology but would have read the words that said the pcm has the ability to adapt to driving conditions. again i apologize for not stating the obvious; it was my assumption that you knew about the technology and would have read the clearly stated line regarding the presence of such technology. before you gloat in your perceived victory be aware that all you have collectively proved is that the pcm controls certain transmission features we already knew that and that the pcm can adapt its programming to meet changing operating conditions. the last sentence is obscure enough as to leave doubt as to exactly which transmission functions it adapts its programming for. jeez john give it a rest you didnt know. stop the snow storm. a few posts back you were insisting on exact wording and now youre satisfied that youve proven your point by citing obscure quotes from the fsm there is no direct quote as to which transmission features it adapts its programming to. you have not offered any exact proof that you continually insist that others must provide. there is enough reasonable doubt as to leave the debate open ended. i never insisted on exact wording; that game is yours to play by yourself. you can also play the grasping at straws game by yourself since its clear you are simply trying to save face. man up and admit you didnt know and shut up. you claim that youve been reading the fsm for many years and have total understanding of it yet you come up with bizarre shit like your reset theory your feedback theory your bleeddown theory etc. all of which are a product of your vivid imagination. it took someone else to lead you to the evidence that was right under your nose and you chide me for not seeing it. yet another attempt to divert attention from your lack of facts and reasoning. bullshit your stock and trade. only one bullshitting is you having hung your entire argument on the one section that is ambiguous and leaving the one line that provides the proof that the pcm adapts as it finds necessary. -- max there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author ok you finally produced with help evidence that could support your version so ill acquiesce but dont go pounding your chest. mm gets the credit and your failure to produce any convincing proof until two weeks into the debate proves that your previous offerings were merely your typical bullshit. that line was in the sections i quoted three days ago. that you missed it is not my fault. i needed no help in finding the stuff ive read the trans section more than few times and certainly well before this discussion. yea youve read it so well that you hung your initial arguments on everything in the book except the adaptive feature mm had to lead you down that path. and dont try the old i knew it all along bullshit. youve tactics are all too obvious. your claim that i produced nothing till two weeks in is your typical attempt to divert attention from the fact that you obviously havent read as much about these transmissions as you would like to think. when i said it was capable of cclu two weeks ago i assumed that you were capable of reading the manual and finding the information on your own. bullshit if you had the info two weeks ago why did you initially hang your argument solely on a short paragraph describing sensor input and then hammer on the semantics surrounding the control switch input etc why didnt you play the adaptive card back then becau
From : john kunkel
hang in there scotty some day you might actually find something on your own that is actually as earth shaking as your ego would have you believe it is. i dont think any of this is earth shaking. what is out of proportion is the amount of spin and bullshit you come up with when proven wrong. lets see your reset theory proved me wrong; not. your feedback theory proved me wrong; not. your bleed down theory proved me wrong; not. all of those were derived from reading the book. past history proves beyond a doubt that what you interpret in the book is sometimes far from fact. and now your adaptive theory proves me wrong; not. .
From : max dodge
all of those were derived from reading the book. past history proves beyond a doubt that what you interpret in the book is sometimes far from fact. and now your adaptive theory proves me wrong; not. except for the fact that you had to ask where it was mentioned and wouldnt believe it until it was pointed out. now you are denying it yet again. i think we can safely say that you dont like being proven wrong and will lie to avoid admitting it. done here. -- max there are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty soap ballot jury and ammo. please use in that order. -ed howdershelt author hang in there scotty some day you might actually find something on your own that is actually as earth shaking as your ego would have you believe it is. i dont think any of this is earth shaking. what is out of proportion is the amount of spin and bullshit you come up with when proven wrong. lets see your reset theory proved me wrong; not. your feedback theory proved me wrong; not. your bleed down theory proved me wrong; not. all of those were derived from reading the book. past history proves beyond a doubt that what you interpret in the book is sometimes far from fact. and now your adaptive theory proves me wrong; not. .
From : john kunkel
all of those were derived from reading the book. past history proves beyond a doubt that what you interpret in the book is sometimes far from fact. and now your adaptive theory proves me wrong; not. except for the fact that you had to ask where it was mentioned and wouldnt believe it until it was pointed out. and you didnt find it until led to it by another. add plagiarist to your previous titles bullshitter and fantasizer. now you are denying it yet again. youre sidestepping the issue that your previous bogus theories derived from the fsm that you have claimed proved me wrong on many previous occasions turned out to be nothing but fantasies; a product of your mind and never supported even after numerous challenges to do so. now you again think you have irrefutable proof. history repeats itself. i think we can safely say that you dont like being proven wrong and will lie to avoid admitting it. wheres the lie pointing out your previous erroneous theories and rantings may be uncomfortable for you to hear but theyre not lies they are documented in the google archives for all to see. whats their relevance to the current discussion plenty it shows a history of claiming victory on marginal or contrived data. history repeats itself. ill repeat your plagiarized adaptive info adds an interesting twist to the debate but lacks definitive proof that the pcm adapts the tcc lu sequence. .
From : marsh monster
damn a felluh takes a few days off and you guys are still at it........ lmao marsh sips his coffee....stretches his limbs.....looks at his greasy wrenchs..... man........back to work we go .