2000 2500 w/cummins Which trans is better?
From : geekboy
Q: automatic 5 speed or 6 speed a dealer offered me a 2500 extra cab with long bed and the banks power after matket performance package. 92k miles and towing package $14995 with automatic. should i take it .
Replies:
From : geekboy
automatic 5 speed or 6 speed in general the 6spd. the 47re was barely adequate for the cummins and caused the engine to be de-tuned accordingly and the nv4500 5spd while a decent transmission had issues with 5th gear going away due to the vibrations that the engine could induce. the nv5600 6spd was a better match gear-wise to the narrower rpm range of the cummins as well as being capable of holding more torque. a dealer offered me a 2500 extra cab with long bed and the banks power after matket performance package. 92k miles and towing package $14995 with automatic. should i take it nope... not unless some transmission upgrades were a part of the package. in stock form behind a stock engine the 47re will hold its own as long as its not asked to tow heavy and often. start turning up the power to the engine and not proportionally upgrading the transmission is asking for trouble. or - if you think $15k for that truck is a good deal and can absorb a $2500-$3000 transmission re-build with better-than-stock parts then go for it. thanks for the quick reply here is the banks web site for the engine addons http//www.bankspower.com/app.cfmappid=ad01 i think the system was professionaly installed. did dodge sell trucks with the banks it seems to have the total package i am not sure if it does have the torque converted but i would assume it would. the previous owner had a fifth wheel and towed a lot. i do not think someone would go to all that trouble and expense to not have the torque converter added with the package. there are a couple of switches added under the dash i am not sure what they are. i think they are the brake add ons. i switched one on and the engine started sounding different like exhaust was being diverted. gb .
From : tom lawrence
did dodge sell trucks with the banks nope - never. some dealerships may have chosen to but they assume the same responsibility as a customer - ie. dc denying a warranty claim because of enhanced fueling. the previous owner had a fifth wheel and towed a lot. i do not think someone would go to all that trouble and expense to not have the torque converter added with the package. sounds like youre talking yourself into it. thats fine - but just go into it with the presumption that you may need to put some $$$ into the transmission... there are a couple of switches added under the dash i am not sure what they are. i think they are the brake add ons. i switched one on and the engine started sounding different like exhaust was being diverted. it probably has an exhaust brake on it... thats also an issue with the automatic. dc didnt certify an auto trans for use with an exhaust brake until 06. in addition to the potential for having the exhaust brake engage without the tc being locked which will just heat the fluid and not really provide much engine braking there was component wear due to the force being applied in the opposite direction. .
From : tom lawrence
automatic 5 speed or 6 speed in general the 6spd. the 47re was barely adequate for the cummins and caused the engine to be de-tuned accordingly and the nv4500 5spd while a decent transmission had issues with 5th gear going away due to the vibrations that the engine could induce. the nv5600 6spd was a better match gear-wise to the narrower rpm range of the cummins as well as being capable of holding more torque. a dealer offered me a 2500 extra cab with long bed and the banks power after matket performance package. 92k miles and towing package $14995 with automatic. should i take it nope... not unless some transmission upgrades were a part of the package. in stock form behind a stock engine the 47re will hold its own as long as its not asked to tow heavy and often. start turning up the power to the engine and not proportionally upgrading the transmission is asking for trouble. or - if you think $15k for that truck is a good deal and can absorb a $2500-$3000 transmission re-build with better-than-stock parts then go for it. .
From : geekboy
did dodge sell trucks with the banks nope - never. some dealerships may have chosen to but they assume the same responsibility as a customer - ie. dc denying a warranty claim because of enhanced fueling. the previous owner had a fifth wheel and towed a lot. i do not think someone would go to all that trouble and expense to not have the torque converter added with the package. sounds like youre talking yourself into it. thats fine - but just go into it with the presumption that you may need to put some $$$ into the transmission... there are a couple of switches added under the dash i am not sure what they are. i think they are the brake add ons. i switched one on and the engine started sounding different like exhaust was being diverted. it probably has an exhaust brake on it... thats also an issue with the automatic. dc didnt certify an auto trans for use with an exhaust brake until 06. in addition to the potential for having the exhaust brake engage without the tc being locked which will just heat the fluid and not really provide much engine braking there was component wear due to the force being applied in the opposite direction. what about transmission cooler there is one on it. does that not help in addition i saw i fan attached to the bottom of the truck adding more cooling to something. i guess i need to look underneath. maybe better to not use the exhause brake at all one would think that banks would engineer their products to not do abnormal wear and tear on the vehicle to help prevent legal action taken against them. any tips for transmission fluid better than atf 3 synthetic here is a faq on their exhaust brake is the banks brake compatible with a banks powerpack on a turbo-diesel the powerpack components are completely compatible with the banks exhaust brake and in fact many customers install both a power system and banks brake at the same time. will exhaust backpressure from a banks brake hurt my engine no. diesel engines in particular are designed and built to withstand extremely high cylinder pressures under load-that is when the fuel/air charge is firing and pushing the piston down under full throttle. as opposed to backpressure you could call this frontpressure. in this mode the piston rod and bearing withstand a load of as much as 2000 psi or more. the banks brake when fully applied exerts a backpressure of 38 psi on the ford power stroke or 60 psi on the dodge cummins or 55 psi on the chevy/gmc duramax-infinitesimal compared to the power load plus the power load is applied with extreme heat while the brake applies no heat to the cylinder. so it should be very apparent that the banks brake causes no measurable wear on the engine. the real answer to this question is that a turbo-diesel engine is built to withstand huge pressure loads; it is lubricated against wear; and it is cooled by a radiator. your brakes arent. every time they are applied they heat and they wear. theyre designed that way-to be replaced. using the engine to slow your truck is much more practical and efficient. it also saves brake wear and extends brake life between brake jobs. http//www.bankspower.com/faqsbrake.cfm it does not seem they address the compoent wear you mention due to reverse force being applied. i guess i need to call them about that. thanks again for your time in helping me out and educating me on this stuff. gb .
From : tom lawrence
what about transmission cooler there is one on it. does that not help in some circumstances - but its not going to do a bit of good when the torque of the engine overcomes the ability of the clutches particularly the tcc to hold against that torque. maybe better to not use the exhause brake at all the number one concern about operating an exhaust brake with an automatic is keeping the torque converter locked while the brake is engaged. if they dont have a separate lock-up controller then yes id be concerned about its use. its fine to use but you need to pay attention to your drivetrain and know when your torque converter unlocks so that you disengage the brake. and the problem is with a stock vehicle the tcc unlocks the instant you touch the brake pedal. any tips for transmission fluid better than atf 3 synthetic not really... sure a synthetic fluid atf+4 or amsoil wont break down as quickly when subjected to high temps but it wont do anything for the transmissions holding ability which will be taxed when you romp on it with all the extra torque. think about it this way... banks is claiming a 288ft.lb. increase and theyre usually fairly accurate with their numbers. that year engine with an at made 460ft.lbs. i think - so youre talking over a 50% increase in torque. given that this isnt the 60s anymore is it reasonable to assume that a particular component will withstand 150% of its rated capacity it does not seem they address the compoent wear you mention due to reverse force being applied. i guess i need to call them about that. they dont mention transmission issues at all... nor do they mention anything about it in their powerpack kits. oh i guarantee when you call them theyll offer you all kinds of goodie$$$ for your transmission. they just recently entered into the torque converter world so im sure theyd love to sell you one of their billet converters.... wont do anything for the rest of the clutches in the stock 47re but itll at least make sure the tcc isnt the one to start slipping first nah - thatll be the od clutch of course - this is all based on the assumption that the previous owner didnt touch the transmission. if he did then its a different story. just one of the things to look forward to when buying someone elses problems .
From : geekboy
did dodge sell trucks with the banks nope - never. some dealerships may have chosen to but they assume the same responsibility as a customer - ie. dc denying a warranty claim because of enhanced fueling. i found this concerning warranty claims the law federal law sets forth requirements for warranties and contains a number of provisions to prevent vehicle manufacturers dealers and others from unjustly denying warranty coverage. with regard to aftermarket parts the spirit of the law is that warranty coverage cannot be denied simply because such parts are present on the vehicle or have been used.the warranty coverage can be denied only if the aftermarket part caused the malfunction or damage for which warranty coverage is sought. disputes in this area usually boil down to arguments over facts and technical opinions rather than arguments over interpretations of the law. federal warranty laws 1.the magnuson-moss warranty act 15 u.s.c. 2302c this federal law regulates warranties for the protection of consumers. the essence of the law concerning aftermarket auto parts is that a vehicle manufacturer may not condition a written or implied warranty on the consumers using parts or services which are identified by brand trade or corporate name such as the vehicle makers brand unless the parts or service are provided free of charge. the law means that the use of an aftermarket part alone is not cause for denying the warranty. however the laws protection does not extend to aftermarket parts in situations where such parts actually caused the damage being claimed under the warranty. further consumers are advised to be aware of any specific terms or conditions stated in the warranty which may result in its being voided. the law states in relevant part no warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using in connection with such product any article or service other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty which is identified by brand trade or corporate name... 15 u.s.c. 2302c. http//www.allaboutdiesels.com/index.phpview=warranty&phpsessid=9cbdc1fcfc9a80739bc8868563444f96 the previous owner had a fifth wheel and towed a lot. i do not think someone would go to all that trouble and expense to not have the torque converter added with the package. sounds like youre talking yourself into it. thats fine - but just go into it with the presumption that you may need to put some $$$ into the transmission... there are a couple of switches added under the dash i am not sure what they are. i think they are the brake add ons. i switched one on and the engine started sounding different like exhaust was being diverted. it probably has an exhaust brake on it... thats also an issue with the automatic. dc didnt certify an auto trans for use with an exhaust brake until 06. in addition to the potential for having the exhaust brake engage without the tc being locked which will just heat the fluid and not really provide much engine braking there was component wear due to the force being applied in the opposite direction. .
From : tom lawrence
i found this concerning warranty claims yep. and when dc says your aftermarket performance devices caused too much stress on the drivetrain and thats the reason for the failure so no warranty - you can wipe the tears away with the paper you printed the m-m act on... .
From : geekboy
what about transmission cooler there is one on it. does that not help in some circumstances - but its not going to do a bit of good when the torque of the engine overcomes the ability of the clutches particularly the tcc to hold against that torque. maybe better to not use the exhause brake at all the number one concern about operating an exhaust brake with an automatic is keeping the torque converter locked while the brake is engaged. if they dont have a separate lock-up controller then yes id be concerned about its use. its fine to use but you need to pay attention to your drivetrain and know when your torque converter unlocks so that you disengage the brake. and the problem is with a stock vehicle the tcc unlocks the instant you touch the brake pedal. i called the company and they do implement a device that call smartlock that is suppose to control whent he torque converter locks up. i would assume the truck has one since the seems to have a whole package deal. any tips for transmission fluid better than atf 3 synthetic not really... sure a synthetic fluid atf+4 or amsoil wont break down as quickly when subjected to high temps but it wont do anything for the transmissions holding ability which will be taxed when you romp on it with all the extra torque. think about it this way... banks is claiming a 288ft.lb. increase and theyre usually fairly accurate with their numbers. that year engine with an at made 460ft.lbs. i think - so youre talking over a 50% increase in torque. given that this isnt the 60s anymore is it reasonable to assume that a particular component will withstand 150% of its rated capacity it does not seem they address the compoent wear you mention due to reverse force being applied. i guess i need to call them about that. they dont mention transmission issues at all... nor do they mention anything about it in their powerpack kits. oh i guarantee when you call them theyll offer you all kinds of goodie$$$ for your transmission. they just recently entered into the torque converter world so im sure theyd love to sell you one of their billet converters.... wont do anything for the rest of the clutches in the stock 47re but itll at least make sure the tcc isnt the one to start slipping first nah - thatll be the od clutch of course - this is all based on the assumption that the previous owner didnt touch the transmission. if he did then its a different story. just one of the things to look forward to when buying someone elses problems .
From : tbone
but you are also failing to see the spirit of the law yourself. the purpose for the law was to protect the consumer while not directly hurting the manufacturer. what it basically says is that you can use an aftermarket replacement part without it affecting your warranty unless the aftermarket part caused the failure but it really offers no protection to those that choose to modify their vehicle with parts that cause changes in operation from factory specifications or didnt exist at all. as tom said if you add parts that change fueling from factory specs you have modified the engine beyond dc specifications and they cannot be held responsible for your modifications. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving did dodge sell trucks with the banks nope - never. some dealerships may have chosen to but they assume the same responsibility as a customer - ie. dc denying a warranty claim because of enhanced fueling. i found this concerning warranty claims the law federal law sets forth requirements for warranties and contains a number of provisions to prevent vehicle manufacturers dealers and others from unjustly denying warranty coverage. with regard to aftermarket parts the spirit of the law is that warranty coverage cannot be denied simply because such parts are present on the vehicle or have been used.the warranty coverage can be denied only if the aftermarket part caused the malfunction or damage for which warranty coverage is sought. disputes in this area usually boil down to arguments over facts and technical opinions rather than arguments over interpretations of the law. federal warranty laws 1.the magnuson-moss warranty act 15 u.s.c. 2302c this federal law regulates warranties for the protection of consumers. the essence of the law concerning aftermarket auto parts is that a vehicle manufacturer may not condition a written or implied warranty on the consumers using parts or services which are identified by brand trade or corporate name such as the vehicle makers brand unless the parts or service are provided free of charge. the law means that the use of an aftermarket part alone is not cause for denying the warranty. however the laws protection does not extend to aftermarket parts in situations where such parts actually caused the damage being claimed under the warranty. further consumers are advised to be aware of any specific terms or conditions stated in the warranty which may result in its being voided. the law states in relevant part no warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using in connection with such product any article or service other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty which is identified by brand trade or corporate name... 15 u.s.c. 2302c. http//www.allaboutdiesels.com/index.phpview=warranty&phpsessid=9cbdc1fcfc9a80739bc8868563444f96 the previous owner had a fifth wheel and towed a lot. i do not think someone would go to all that trouble and expense to not have the torque converter added with the package. sounds like youre talking yourself into it. thats fine - but just go into it with the presumption that you may need to put some $$$ into the transmission... there are a couple of switches added under the dash i am not sure what they are. i think they are the brake add ons. i switched one on and the engine started sounding different like exhaust was being diverted. it probably has an exhaust brake on it... thats also an issue with the automatic. dc didnt certify an auto trans for use with an exhaust brake until 06. in addition to the potential for having the exhaust brake engage without the tc being locked which will just heat the fluid and not really provide much engine braking there was component wear due to the force being applied in the opposite direction. .
From : tom lawrence
part caused the failure but it really offers no protection to those that choose to modify their vehicle with parts that cause changes in operation from factory specifications or didnt exist at all. and just to add to what tom said for the ops digestion it in theory anyway places the responsibility on the warranty provider to demonstrate that the aftermarket part caused the failure. now thats a pretty gray area subject to a lot of interpretation. the example i give is one that happened to me some time back... i had my 99 under warranty at the time in at the dealer for a suspected rear main seal leak. they informed me that it wasnt the rear main but the oil pan gasket that was leaking - then told me it was $160 or so to replace it. they claimed that since i put a lift kit on the truck the warranty was void. a quick mention of well according to m-m thats illegal for you do to cleared the issue right up. after a bit of backpedalling they quickly agreed to cover the repair under warranty. thats a clear-cut example of an aftermarket part having nothing to do with a failure. had i experienced a failed ball joint for example - the conversation would have been much different. and in the end does anyone have the time/patience/money to hire a lawyer and go to court in most cases no... although some with complete engine failure leading to thousands of dollars in repairs have gone the legal route - with mixed results. the point is - in practical terms the dealership has a pretty good leg to stand on if they refuse a powertrain-related warranty claim on a powertrain thats been modified from original specs. note too that this isnt the same as voiding or cancelling a warranty. only dc can do that and only after inspecting the vehicle and determining either abuse emissions tampering or odometer fraud. what a dealership can do is place restrictions on parts of your warranty - which is nothing more than a red-flag in the dealer system telling other dealers hey - before proceeding with a warranty claim on this vehicle check into x y and z. the end result isnt much different but a restriction on your powertrain means your a/c system is still covered for example - just like my oil pan gasket was covered even though im fairly certain my vehicle was flagged for any kind of suspension work as if the 38 tires werent enough of a give-away .
From : geekboy
i had a word with the previous owner today. he said he put these goodies put on from dtt exhaust brake controller and smart lock controller. also their torque converter. from their web site a.. 30-40 percent more power transfer b.. 100 degrees less heat c.. 1-2 mpg fuel economy improvement d.. unsurpassed torque multiplication and fluid coupling e.. increased transmission life http//www.dieseltrans.com/dodge/transmissioncomponents.htm he also said he put on a banks power pack automin chip and bd exhaust brake. also change the rear end to 3.73 gears. says it now puts out 340hp and 600 ft lbs of torque what about transmission cooler there is one on it. does that not help in some circumstances - but its not going to do a bit of good when the torque of the engine overcomes the ability of the clutches particularly the tcc to hold against that torque. maybe better to not use the exhause brake at all the number one concern about operating an exhaust brake with an automatic is keeping the torque converter locked while the brake is engaged. if they dont have a separate lock-up controller then yes id be concerned about its use. its fine to use but you need to pay attention to your drivetrain and know when your torque converter unlocks so that you disengage the brake. and the problem is with a stock vehicle the tcc unlocks the instant you touch the brake pedal. any tips for transmission fluid better than atf 3 synthetic not really... sure a synthetic fluid atf+4 or amsoil wont break down as quickly when subjected to high temps but it wont do anything for the transmissions holding ability which will be taxed when you romp on it with all the extra torque. think about it this way... banks is claiming a 288ft.lb. increase and theyre usually fairly accurate with their numbers. that year engine with an at made 460ft.lbs. i think - so youre talking over a 50% increase in torque. given that this isnt the 60s anymore is it reasonable to assume that a particular component will withstand 150% of its rated capacity it does not seem they address the compoent wear you mention due to reverse force being applied. i guess i need to call them about that. they dont mention transmission issues at all... nor do they mention anything about it in their powerpack kits. oh i guarantee when you call them theyll offer you all kinds of goodie$$$ for your transmission. they just recently entered into the torque converter world so im sure theyd love to sell you one of their billet converters.... wont do anything for the rest of the clutches in the stock 47re but itll at least make sure the tcc isnt the one to start slipping first nah - thatll be the od clutch of course - this is all based on the assumption that the previous owner didnt touch the transmission. if he did then its a different story. just one of the things to look forward to when buying someone elses problems .