04 Dodge Ram 1500 lift kit problem
From : homebrewer
Q: i just installed the 2002-05 ram 1500 4wd 6 performance system made by fabtech and put 35x12.5 bfg mts and 17x9 mt classic ii rims see pic here http//members.cox.net/85cj7/images/nwfb.jpg and http//members.cox.net/85cj7/images/nwfb2.jpg . and i have 3 major problems 1. i had the truck aligned before installing the lift according to lift instructions and all was fine. i installed the fabtech lift and the truck is now pulling hard to the right. i had the dodge dealer align the front end and it is still pulling to the right. i returned it to the dealer and had them verify and it is within factory specs. did the fabtech lift change the specs on the camber caster and/or toe i will contact fabtech directly about this but i doubt they will admit to it. i think they would have included this in the instructions if the specs changed right if they cant supply the new specs - how do i correct the problem can i get a shop other that the dealer to align the truck without using factory specs - or - is there no place to start then 2. i have a vibration at 40-60mph that is not very nice. no changes were made to the rear drive shaft etc....what components could cause this i had the tires balanced and they used the stick on lead weights inside the rim. are tires this big able to be balanced like that i thought there was something that goes inside the big tires that balances them. 3. i had the dodge dealer recalibrate the computer / speedometer to compensate for larger tires. now the cruise control only works up to 45mph i can only turn on cruise below 40 mph and then using the buttons on the steering wheel accelerate up to 45mph before it shuts off. again i returned it to the dealer and they says its not the computer recalibration. they have never heard of the problem. i know it has something to do with the big tires and the computer recalibration because the cruise worked fine just before the recalibration. any help or advice would be appreciated. .
Replies:
From : snoman
on sat 22 jul 2006 071150 -0500 homebrewer homebrewer@cox.net wrote i just installed the 2002-05 ram 1500 4wd 6 performance system made by fabtech and put 35x12.5 bfg mts and 17x9 mt classic ii rims see pic here http//members.cox.net/85cj7/images/nwfb.jpg and http//members.cox.net/85cj7/images/nwfb2.jpg . and i have 3 major problems 1. i had the truck aligned before installing the lift according to lift instructions and all was fine. i installed the fabtech lift and the truck is now pulling hard to the right. i had the dodge dealer align the front end and it is still pulling to the right. i returned it to the dealer and had them verify and it is within factory specs. did the fabtech lift change the specs on the camber caster and/or toe i will contact fabtech directly about this but i doubt they will admit to it. i think they would have included this in the instructions if the specs changed right if they cant supply the new specs - how do i correct the problem can i get a shop other that the dealer to align the truck without using factory specs - or - is there no place to start then it will change the caster which can effect directional control and bear in mind that the front end was never disigned for the added stress that this adds to vehcile some there will be issues. have dealer print out alignemnt setting on vehicle now and i can tell you what to do because factory spec co out the wind with a lift. if you want it to track right you will need to do some tweaking here. 2. i have a vibration at 40-60mph that is not very nice. no changes were made to the rear drive shaft etc....what components could cause this i had the tires balanced and they used the stick on lead weights inside the rim. are tires this big able to be balanced like that i thought there was something that goes inside the big tires that balances them. with heavier and larger rotating masses it is harder to balance plus ujoints in drive shfts are not constant velocity and they can cause vibration at higher angle and the higher tourqe load on them from much larger tires with stock gear makes it even worse. 3. i had the dodge dealer recalibrate the computer / speedometer to compensate for larger tires. now the cruise control only works up to 45mph i can only turn on cruise below 40 mph and then using the buttons on the steering wheel accelerate up to 45mph before it shuts off. again i returned it to the dealer and they says its not the computer recalibration. they have never heard of the problem. i know it has something to do with the big tires and the computer recalibration because the cruise worked fine just before the recalibration. any help or advice would be appreciated. you need more the a speed calibration here. you effectively made your final drive ratio about 2 steps taller and through in bigger tire drag and your drive train will work a lot harder and your rpm is lowr at 40 than before becausethis it is equal rpm wise to about 32 before the lift to fix this and make truck run a lot better you need at least 4.56s and 4.88 would be better still them recal speedo and such and you will get what you are looking for and longer driveline life with much better performance too. ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .
From : js
chris thompson wrote . chris thompson wrote . snoman i am a professional installer of 12 volt aftermarket electronics and i am here to tell you that engine vacuum has nothing to do with nor does it effect as you say a completely electronic cruise control factory or aftermarket. an electric cruise will and does in most cases get its signal for vehicle speed from the vss. there are no vaccum lines hooked up anywhere on the units so explain to me how vaccum effects them he cant and im still waiting on my question to be answered. he did. his explanation made sense since ive seen the same thing on my hyundai. left the auto-stick in 4th od and climbed a very steep hill at 55 1800 rpm or so on a 2.7l v6 rolling weight about 4300#... it pulled the accelerator to the floor dropped out of lockup kept losing speed and after a second or two the cruise let go. luckily nobody was behind me else it might have been an embarrassing situation its embarrassing enough already i drive a hyundai suv it has a mitsubishi electronic cruise module controlled by the ecm - its got a regular ol throttle cable for the human interface. hmm arent the hemis throttle-by-wire i know the 4.7s are this would mean the cruise and your foot actually run the same servo on the side of the throttle body so therefore the problem wouldnt be the servo unless the accelerator pedal didnt work either. js theres zero mention of engine vacuum as a cause of cc disengagement anywhere in the fsm. none. zip. nada. weird. i originally attributed mine to a potentially misadjusted cruise cable system freaking out due to the servo not being able to pull farther. i rarely leave it in manual shift mode when using the cruise unless im locking it into 3rd in hilly terrain with 4 people in it... as posted by tom l. further in an auto trans setup it should downshift to a lower gear to achive the torque multiplication needed to maintain the speed an autostick doesnt do this as you select the gears like in a standard shift yeah. it can pull itself out of lock-up but it wont downshift out of 4th until it drops under 30-35 or so. js .
From : Annonymous
on tue 25 jul 2006 130503 gmt snoman admin@snoman.com wrote on mon 24 jul 2006 214156 -0400 chris thompson he cant and im still waiting on my question to be answered. and what question is that you guys turned this into a circus. us guys only took what you offerred. a little late to start whining. ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .
From : azwiley1
really then how come none of the rostra electronic cruise control units i sell and install have no vaccum line hook ups none use map vaccum or manifold pressure they will all engage at 25 mph or higher etc.. oh hell you know it all. on mon 24 jul 2006 180523 -0700 azwiley1 azwiley1@cox.net wrote snoman i am a professional installer of 12 volt aftermarket electronics and i am here to tell you that engine vacuum has nothing to do with nor does it effect as you say a completely electronic cruise control factory or aftermarket. an electric cruise will and does in most cases get its signal for vehicle speed from the vss. there are no vaccum lines hooked up anywhere on the units so explain to me how vaccum effects them the electronic cruise is monitored by ecm and if the engine does npt have the needed power reserve to power it it will not let it engage. it is not transparent as you assume. it determines this by map or vacum which ever term you want to use ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .
From : chris thompson
i just installed the 2002-05 ram 1500 4wd 6 performance system made by fabtech and put 35x12.5 bfg mts and 17x9 mt classic ii rims see pic here http//members.cox.net/85cj7/images/nwfb.jpg and http//members.cox.net/85cj7/images/nwfb2.jpg . and i have 3 major problems 1. i had the truck aligned before installing the lift according to lift instructions and all was fine. i installed the fabtech lift and the truck is now pulling hard to the right. i had the dodge dealer align the front end and it is still pulling to the right. i returned it to the dealer and had them verify and it is within factory specs. did the fabtech lift change the specs on the camber caster and/or toe i will contact fabtech directly about this but i doubt they will admit to it. i think they would have included this in the instructions if the specs changed right if they cant supply the new specs - how do i correct the problem can i get a shop other that the dealer to align the truck without using factory specs - or - is there no place to start then camber and caster are the angles that would cause a pull toe in wouldnt. i would further check to make sure the rest of the of the suspension is tight. take it to a requtable front end shop. sounds like your going to need quality qualified professional help on this one. 2. i have a vibration at 40-60mph that is not very nice. no changes were made to the rear drive shaft etc....what components could cause this i had the tires balanced and they used the stick on lead weights inside the rim. are tires this big able to be balanced like that i thought there was something that goes inside the big tires that balances them. my first guess would be that you have changed your driveline angles. your u joints may be running at too high of an angle. its not a big deal if you know what your doing. but thats the thing you need to know what your doing here too. 3. i had the dodge dealer recalibrate the computer / speedometer to compensate for larger tires. now the cruise control only works up to 45mph i can only turn on cruise below 40 mph and then using the buttons on the steering wheel accelerate up to 45mph before it shuts off. again i returned it to the dealer and they says its not the computer recalibration. they have never heard of the problem. i know it has something to do with the big tires and the computer recalibration because the cruise worked fine just before the recalibration. sorry cant help you on this one. any help or advice would be appreciated. your welcome hope ive been of some help. .
From : snoman
on sat 22 jul 2006 213843 -0400 chris thompson kf4drr-nospam@alltel.net wrote i just installed the 2002-05 ram 1500 4wd 6 performance system made by fabtech and put 35x12.5 bfg mts and 17x9 mt classic ii rims see pic here http//members.cox.net/85cj7/images/nwfb.jpg and http//members.cox.net/85cj7/images/nwfb2.jpg . and i have 3 major problems 1. i had the truck aligned before installing the lift according to lift instructions and all was fine. i installed the fabtech lift and the truck is now pulling hard to the right. i had the dodge dealer align the front end and it is still pulling to the right. i returned it to the dealer and had them verify and it is within factory specs. did the fabtech lift change the specs on the camber caster and/or toe i will contact fabtech directly about this but i doubt they will admit to it. i think they would have included this in the instructions if the specs changed right if they cant supply the new specs - how do i correct the problem can i get a shop other that the dealer to align the truck without using factory specs - or - is there no place to start then camber and caster are the angles that would cause a pull toe in wouldnt. i would further check to make sure the rest of the of the suspension is tight. take it to a requtable front end shop. sounds like your going to need quality qualified professional help on this one. actualimproper toe in with a improper camber can indeed pull as iot can aggrevate it. and again stock alignment spec tend to be a starting point with a lift not the final word because the stress on front end which does actually flex some has all changed with a big lift with oversized tires. it changes the load center relative to axle pivots and the forces the road transmitts back to steering axle relatie to them 2. i have a vibration at 40-60mph that is not very nice. no changes were made to the rear drive shaft etc....what components could cause this i had the tires balanced and they used the stick on lead weights inside the rim. are tires this big able to be balanced like that i thought there was something that goes inside the big tires that balances them. my first guess would be that you have changed your driveline angles. your u joints may be running at too high of an angle. its not a big deal if you know what your doing. but thats the thing you need to know what your doing here too. 3. i had the dodge dealer recalibrate the computer / speedometer to compensate for larger tires. now the cruise control only works up to 45mph i can only turn on cruise below 40 mph and then using the buttons on the steering wheel accelerate up to 45mph before it shuts off. again i returned it to the dealer and they says its not the computer recalibration. they have never heard of the problem. i know it has something to do with the big tires and the computer recalibration because the cruise worked fine just before the recalibration. sorry cant help you on this one. any help or advice would be appreciated. your welcome hope ive been of some help. ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .
From : homebrewer
camber and caster are the angles that would cause a pull toe in wouldnt. i would further check to make sure the rest of the of the suspension is tight. take it to a requtable front end shop. sounds like your going to need quality qualified professional help on this one. all fasteners were re torqued to specs after 100 miles...everything is dead on. i switched front tires from side to side and it still pulls right slightly. seems to be less than before the switch tho. 2. i have a vibration at 40-60mph that is not very nice. no changes were made to the rear drive shaft etc....what components could cause this i had the tires balanced and they used the stick on lead weights inside the rim. are tires this big able to be balanced like that i thought there was something that goes inside the big tires that balances them. my first guess would be that you have changed your driveline angles. your u joints may be running at too high of an angle. its not a big deal if you know what your doing. but thats the thing you need to know what your doing here too. the lift was designed to keep factory drive line angles the front diff was dropped to compensate the rear was only lifted 1 using helper springs there is no stress on any of the u-joints. i think the vibe is tire related now. 3. i had the dodge dealer recalibrate the computer / speedometer to compensate for larger tires. now the cruise control only works up to 45mph i can only turn on cruise below 40 mph and then using the buttons on the steering wheel accelerate up to 45mph before it shuts off. again i returned it to the dealer and they says its not the computer recalibration. they have never heard of the problem. i know it has something to do with the big tires and the computer recalibration because the cruise worked fine just before the recalibration. sorry cant help you on this one. any help or advice would be appreciated. your welcome hope ive been of some help. .
From : snoman
on sun 23 jul 2006 122610 -0500 homebrewer homebrewer@cox.net wrote specs are left front camber = -0.0 specified range = -0.5 0.5 caster = 4.5 specified range = 4.0 5.2 toe = 0.05 specified range 0.00 0.10 right front camber = -0.2 specified range = -0.5 0.5 caster = 4.2 specified range = 4.0 5.2 toe = 0.06 specified range 0.00 0.10 okay for starters you always put more caster in right side than left because roads tend to be crowned and you are a tiny bit left side heavy so that with crowns will tend to make it go right and the extra caster takes care of that. try leaving left side caster alone and increase right caster to 5.0. if it still pulls take left side down to about 4.0. on the camber i like to see more here because of lift. shoot for +.5 on both sides. the negative chamber on right side is also helping it pull too. toe looks good. if it wants to follow crack after resetting caster and camber i will tell you what to tweak on toe. what does this have to do with the computer controlled cruise control the cruise should work based solely on the speedometer -or- the wheel speed sensor. somethig is not programmed correctly allowing it to switch off at 45mph. it has everything to do with it because cruise control has a lower engine rpm limit because of engine and transmission function. it is this limit that determines the lower limit of it and when you increased tire size without changing axle ratio which you really need to do here big time you increased the relative vechicle speed at same engine rpm vs with stock tires hense the higher minimum speed for cruise. follow now snoman - i really appreciate any advice here but you need to work on spelling / typos before posting. i really dont understand some of your info even when using contextual clues. sorry about the typos. some times it is me and sometimes it is this wireless keyboard that i am using. sometimes i press one letter and get another but some of it is me. i have a big monitor that i sit back from with keyboard in my lap and mouse is wireless too ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .
From : homebrewer
well snowman here is the point that you seem to be missing. it did work prior to the reprogramming according to the op and unless a speedo reprogramming somehow changed the load on the engine or the vacuum.... actually i never tried the cruise before the reprogram...i really wish i had now though! .
From : homebrewer
snoman wrote on sat 22 jul 2006 071150 -0500 homebrewer homebrewer@cox.net wrote i just installed the 2002-05 ram 1500 4wd 6 performance system made by fabtech and put 35x12.5 bfg mts and 17x9 mt classic ii rims see pic here http//members.cox.net/85cj7/images/nwfb.jpg and http//members.cox.net/85cj7/images/nwfb2.jpg . and i have 3 major problems 1. i had the truck aligned before installing the lift according to lift instructions and all was fine. i installed the fabtech lift and the truck is now pulling hard to the right. i had the dodge dealer align the front end and it is still pulling to the right. i returned it to the dealer and had them verify and it is within factory specs. did the fabtech lift change the specs on the camber caster and/or toe i will contact fabtech directly about this but i doubt they will admit to it. i think they would have included this in the instructions if the specs changed right if they cant supply the new specs - how do i correct the problem can i get a shop other that the dealer to align the truck without using factory specs - or - is there no place to start then it will change the caster which can effect directional control and bear in mind that the front end was never disigned for the added stress that this adds to vehcile some there will be issues. have dealer print out alignemnt setting on vehicle now and i can tell you what to do because factory spec co out the wind with a lift. if you want it to track right you will need to do some tweaking here. specs are left front camber = -0.0 specified range = -0.5 0.5 caster = 4.5 specified range = 4.0 5.2 toe = 0.05 specified range 0.00 0.10 right front camber = -0.2 specified range = -0.5 0.5 caster = 4.2 specified range = 4.0 5.2 toe = 0.06 specified range 0.00 0.10 2. i have a vibration at 40-60mph that is not very nice. no changes were made to the rear drive shaft etc....what components could cause this i had the tires balanced and they used the stick on lead weights inside the rim. are tires this big able to be balanced like that i thought there was something that goes inside the big tires that balances them. with heavier and larger rotating masses it is harder to balance plus ujoints in drive shfts are not constant velocity and they can cause vibration at higher angle and the higher tourqe load on them from much larger tires with stock gear makes it even worse. 3. i had the dodge dealer recalibrate the computer / speedometer to compensate for larger tires. now the cruise control only works up to 45mph i can only turn on cruise below 40 mph and then using the buttons on the steering wheel accelerate up to 45mph before it shuts off. again i returned it to the dealer and they says its not the computer recalibration. they have never heard of the problem. i know it has something to do with the big tires and the computer recalibration because the cruise worked fine just before the recalibration. any help or advice would be appreciated. you need more the a speed calibration here. you effectively made your final drive ratio about 2 steps taller and through in bigger tire drag and your drive train will work a lot harder and your rpm is lowr at 40 than before becausethis it is equal rpm wise to about 32 before the lift to fix this and make truck run a lot better you need at least 4.56s and 4.88 would be better still them recal speedo and such and you will get what you are looking for and longer driveline life with much better performance too. what does this have to do with the computer controlled cruise control the cruise should work based solely on the speedometer -or- the wheel speed sensor. somethig is not programmed correctly allowing it to switch off at 45mph. snoman - i really appreciate any advice here but you need to work on spelling / typos before posting. i really dont understand some of your info even when using contextual clues. ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .
From : homebrewer
snoman wrote on sun 23 jul 2006 122610 -0500 homebrewer homebrewer@cox.net wrote specs are left front camber = -0.0 specified range = -0.5 0.5 caster = 4.5 specified range = 4.0 5.2 toe = 0.05 specified range 0.00 0.10 right front camber = -0.2 specified range = -0.5 0.5 caster = 4.2 specified range = 4.0 5.2 toe = 0.06 specified range 0.00 0.10 okay for starters you always put more caster in right side than left because roads tend to be crowned and you are a tiny bit left side heavy so that with crowns will tend to make it go right and the extra caster takes care of that. try leaving left side caster alone and increase right caster to 5.0. if it still pulls take left side down to about 4.0. on the camber i like to see more here because of lift. shoot for +.5 on both sides. the negative chamber on right side is also helping it pull too. toe looks good. if it wants to follow crack after resetting caster and camber i will tell you what to tweak on toe. ok ill try to get them to do the corrections - i need to make friends with someone that has a machine cause i cant afford $59.95 everytime i need to tweak this thing. what does this have to do with the computer controlled cruise control the cruise should work based solely on the speedometer -or- the wheel speed sensor. somethig is not programmed correctly allowing it to switch off at 45mph. it has everything to do with it because cruise control has a lower engine rpm limit because of engine and transmission function. it is this limit that determines the lower limit of it and when you increased tire size without changing axle ratio which you really need to do here big time you increased the relative vechicle speed at same engine rpm vs with stock tires hense the higher minimum speed for cruise. follow now i am tracking.....somewhat. i know i need new gears but i was under the impression that the cruise would work directly with the speedo recalibration. you are saying the cruise control works on engine rpm as well as speed cant the dealer program around this snoman - i really appreciate any advice here but you need to work on spelling / typos before posting. i really dont understand some of your info even when using contextual clues. sorry about the typos. some times it is me and sometimes it is this wireless keyboard that i am using. sometimes i press one letter and get another but some of it is me. i have a big monitor that i sit back from with keyboard in my lap and mouse is wireless too np - thanks again for the advice! ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .
From : snoman
ok ill try to get them to do the corrections - i need to make friends with someone that has a machine cause i cant afford $59.95 everytime i need to tweak this thing. you need to take it someplace where they warrant alignment for 90 or 180 days so you can get them the tweak it. besides they did not align it correctly anyway. in the old days when i learned about it from old timers they would see how the car drove and check what it did and then read the front end and adjust it to correct it based on experiance. today a alignment tech just follows spec and has no creativety to tweak it correctly because they are not really running the show per say as software is. also factroy alignement specs are not absolute because of production variances two cars may need to be tweaked differently to do their best and as i said when you lift it factory specs are a guideline that you build on not follow blindly. i am tracking.....somewhat. i know i need new gears but i was under the impression that the cruise would work directly with the speedo recalibration. you are saying the cruise control works on engine rpm as well as speed cant the dealer program around this i guess you are not completely following me here or perhaps i am not explaing it correctly. you cannot program the engine to run cruise control at a lower rpm because the tranny is part of the picture too and it has its rpm input requirements to for minumum speed control and gear and lockup as well. if you want cruise control to work again at lower speed you will have to regear truck which you need to do any way as they is no fix otherwise. the dealer programing just fixed speedot. shifts are happening at same general rpm as before but that rpm yeilds higher speeds in each gear now and i will bet that od right now is about useless. your car is acting the same it would if you had stock tires and put taller gears in it. np - thanks again for the advice! keep me posted because i know i can fix the pulling problem once we get your truck dialed in proper. do not feel bad when i had my 2000 k3500 aligned for the first time last year i took it back 3 times at not charge before they got it right they finally did what i told them to do and it cured it and it is still good today. ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .
From : chris thompson
ok ill try to get them to do the corrections - i need to make friends with someone that has a machine cause i cant afford $59.95 everytime i need to tweak this thing. you need to take it someplace where they warrant alignment for 90 or 180 days so you can get them the tweak it. besides they did not align it correctly anyway. in the old days when i learned about it from old timers they would see how the car drove and check what it did and then read the front end and adjust it to correct it based on experiance. today a alignment tech just follows spec and has no creativety to tweak it correctly because they are not really running the show per say as software is. also factroy alignement specs are not absolute because of production variances two cars may need to be tweaked differently to do their best and as i said when you lift it factory specs are a guideline that you build on not follow blindly. i am tracking.....somewhat. i know i need new gears but i was under the impression that the cruise would work directly with the speedo recalibration. you are saying the cruise control works on engine rpm as well as speed cant the dealer program around this i guess you are not completely following me here or perhaps i am not explaing it correctly. you cannot program the engine to run cruise control at a lower rpm because the tranny is part of the picture too and it has its rpm input requirements to for minumum speed control and gear and lockup as well. if you want cruise control to work again at lower speed you will have to regear truck now see hes not the only one not following you because his complaint was that the cruise would not work over 45 mph. how does minimum speed control figure in -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs. which you need to do any way as they is no fix otherwise. the dealer programing just fixed speedot. shifts are happening at same general rpm as before but that rpm yeilds higher speeds in each gear now and i will bet that od right now is about useless. your car is acting the same it would if you had stock tires and put taller gears in it. np - thanks again for the advice! keep me posted because i know i can fix the pulling problem once we get your truck dialed in proper. do not feel bad when i had my 2000 k3500 aligned for the first time last year i took it back 3 times at not charge before they got it right they finally did what i told them to do and it cured it and it is still good today. ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .
From : snoman
on mon 24 jul 2006 113003 -0400 chris thompson kf4drr-nospam@alltel.net wrote now see hes not the only one not following you because his complaint was that the cruise would not work over 45 mph. how does minimum speed control figure in that part is easy. with his tall tires with stock gears the engine requires too much manifold pressure to cruise normally and the cruise control will not engage unless the manifold pressure is above a certain level when you select it. what this means is vacum is too low and cruise is vacum controlled too did you get that part people install large lifts and tires with stock gear and expect a simple programming to fix everything. his lift and tires is a lot and it is overtaxing the drive train and its controls. if he would simply put some 4.88 or deeper gears in it his troubles would go away and it would aslo run a lot better too. there is more than just effective gear ratio hear as there is the extra drag from lift and increased rolling resistance of tires too. what was a good cruise rpm with stock tires and no lift no longer applies and you need a cruise rpm a bit higher now to have more cruise power to overcome this added load. below is a link to a tire size/axle ratio calculator. http//www.snoman.com/html/axlecalc5a.html ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .
From : tom lawrence
and cruise is vacum controlled too did you get that part people install large lifts and tires with stock gear and expect a simple programming to fix everything. thats funny because my 99 ram ran just fine with 35x14.5 mickeys and a 4.5 lift with the stock gears for a long time. i simply corrected the speedometer with a little electronic box started with an abbott era but switched to a superlift truspeed when i went up to 38s and never had a problem with cruise control - it would engage around 37-38mph and wouldnt ever cut out at least to 85mph or so. .
From : snoman
on mon 24 jul 2006 165729 gmt tom lawrence tnloaswpraemnmcien5g@earthlink.net wrote and cruise is vacum controlled too did you get that part people install large lifts and tires with stock gear and expect a simple programming to fix everything. thats funny because my 99 ram ran just fine with 35x14.5 mickeys and a 4.5 lift with the stock gears for a long time. i simply corrected the speedometer with a little electronic box started with an abbott era but switched to a superlift truspeed when i went up to 38s and never had a problem with cruise control - it would engage around 37-38mph and wouldnt ever cut out at least to 85mph or so. funny thing is you have a older car with older style control and i know it is a slug without riding in it if it has stock gears. my daughter dohc saturn would eat it up at higher speeds and my stock k3500 would badly embarrass it at all speeds. i by a truck for power not looks and i would not do any mod that would take that away and no chip or air filter on tune will fix big tires and a lift you needs gears. if you feel you have good performance that just tell me that yu have lower standards because the physics of it proves otherwise. ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .
From : chris thompson
wait now you talk about manifold pressures. fine i understand about naturally aspirated engines. i do not claim to understand without researching it further all of the factors the program looks at in order to engage the cruise. whether the map is one of those sensors for sure im not going to comment on. although this has nothing to do with minimum speed so i ask again. what does minimum speed have to do with not engaging over 45 mph i await an answer that actually has something to do with the minimum speed. -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs. on mon 24 jul 2006 113003 -0400 chris thompson kf4drr-nospam@alltel.net wrote now see hes not the only one not following you because his complaint was that the cruise would not work over 45 mph. how does minimum speed control figure in that part is easy. with his tall tires with stock gears the engine requires too much manifold pressure to cruise normally and the cruise control will not engage unless the manifold pressure is above a certain level when you select it. what this means is vacum is too low and cruise is vacum controlled too did you get that part people install large lifts and tires with stock gear and expect a simple programming to fix everything. his lift and tires is a lot and it is overtaxing the drive train and its controls. if he would simply put some 4.88 or deeper gears in it his troubles would go away and it would aslo run a lot better too. there is more than just effective gear ratio hear as there is the extra drag from lift and increased rolling resistance of tires too. what was a good cruise rpm with stock tires and no lift no longer applies and you need a cruise rpm a bit higher now to have more cruise power to overcome this added load. below is a link to a tire size/axle ratio calculator. http//www.snoman.com/html/axlecalc5a.html ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .
From : tom lawrence
certain level when you select it. what this means is vacum is too low and cruise is vacum controlled too did you get that part and another thing... why are you blabbing on and on about engine vacuum let me quote you something from the 04 service manual 5.7l gas the speed control system is fully electronically controlled by the powertrain control module pcm. a cable and a vacuum controlled servo are not used. this is a servo-less system. the controls consist of two steering wheel mounted switches. the switches are labeled on/off res/accel set coast and cancel. the system is designed to operate at speeds above 30 mph 50 km/h. .
From : snoman
on mon 24 jul 2006 190227 gmt tom lawrence tnloaswpraemnmcien5g@earthlink.net wrote certain level when you select it. what this means is vacum is too low and cruise is vacum controlled too did you get that part and another thing... why are you blabbing on and on about engine vacuum let me quote you something from the 04 service manual 5.7l gas the speed control system is fully electronically controlled by the powertrain control module pcm. a cable and a vacuum controlled servo are not used. this is a servo-less system. the controls consist of two steering wheel mounted switches. the switches are labeled on/off res/accel set coast and cancel. the system is designed to operate at speeds above 30 mph 50 km/h. tom you are the one blabing here and you think that engien vacum has not effect on been able to use cruise control. if the ecm thinks the engine is laboring too much map and rpm it will not let cruise engaged but you are likely one of those that want to beleive that truck systems are immune to this stuff. btw with his current setup he will be turning about 1500 rpm in drive at 45 and a little over 1000 rpm in od and no hemi is going to what to pull that and the drag with it in cruise control. i could even calculate how much power is required and what is availble but you would think that is bs too because you do not understand any of the physics here only your ego. ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .
From : sweet daddy siki
snoman admin@snoman.com wrote in on mon 24 jul 2006 190227 gmt tom lawrence tnloaswpraemnmcien5g@earthlink.net wrote certain level when you select it. what this means is vacum is too low and cruise is vacum controlled too did you get that part and another thing... why are you blabbing on and on about engine vacuum let me quote you something from the 04 service manual 5.7l gas the speed control system is fully electronically controlled by the powertrain control module pcm. a cable and a vacuum controlled servo are not used. this is a servo-less system. the controls consist of two steering wheel mounted switches. the switches are labeled on/off res/accel set coast and cancel. the system is designed to operate at speeds above 30 mph 50 km/h. tom you are the one blabing here and you think that engien vacum has not effect on been able to use cruise control. i think the vacuum is somewhere else else if the ecm thinks the engine is laboring too much map and rpm it will not let cruise engaged but you are likely one of those that want to beleive that truck systems are immune to this stuff. btw with his current setup he will be turning about 1500 rpm in drive at 45 and a little over 1000 rpm in od and no hemi is going to what to pull that and the drag with it in cruise control. i could even calculate how much power is required and what is availble but you would think that is bs too because you do not understand any of the physics here only your ego. give us a break. you are book smart but try the real mans world. sweet daddy ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .
From : tbone
well snowman here is the point that you seem to be missing. it did work prior to the reprogramming according to the op and unless a speedo reprogramming somehow changed the load on the engine or the vacuum.... -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving on mon 24 jul 2006 190227 gmt tom lawrence tnloaswpraemnmcien5g@earthlink.net wrote certain level when you select it. what this means is vacum is too low and cruise is vacum controlled too did you get that part and another thing... why are you blabbing on and on about engine vacuum let me quote you something from the 04 service manual 5.7l gas the speed control system is fully electronically controlled by the powertrain control module pcm. a cable and a vacuum controlled servo are not used. this is a servo-less system. the controls consist of two steering wheel mounted switches. the switches are labeled on/off res/accel set coast and cancel. the system is designed to operate at speeds above 30 mph 50 km/h. tom you are the one blabing here and you think that engien vacum has not effect on been able to use cruise control. if the ecm thinks the engine is laboring too much map and rpm it will not let cruise engaged but you are likely one of those that want to beleive that truck systems are immune to this stuff. btw with his current setup he will be turning about 1500 rpm in drive at 45 and a little over 1000 rpm in od and no hemi is going to what to pull that and the drag with it in cruise control. i could even calculate how much power is required and what is availble but you would think that is bs too because you do not understand any of the physics here only your ego. ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .
From : tom lawrence
tom you are the one blabing here and you think that engien vacum has not effect on been able to use cruise control. youre the one who said cruise is vacum controlled too spelling mistake and all. im simply pointing out that you have no comprehension of the systems you profess so much knowledge in. if the ecm thinks the engine is laboring too much map and rpm it will not let cruise engaged but it is engaging just fine... its suddenly disengaging at 45mph. i believe the dealership screwed something up when they changed the pinion factor in the pcm. the only reasons the cc would automatically disengage is if it thought the trans was in park or neutral if the rpm increased rapidly like a clutch was disengaged in a m/t vehicle - n/a here excessive engine rpm again mostly a m/t issue a speed signal that increases 10mph/s spinning the tires or a speed signal that decreases 10mph/s vehicle hit something. it will also disengage above 85mph. theres zero mention of engine vacuum as a cause of cc disengagement anywhere in the fsm. none. zip. nada. the fact that hundreds of other truck owners have upgraded to 35 tires its been a very popular upgrade without issue also leads me to believe theres something screwy with his particular truck. truck systems are immune to this stuff. btw with his current setup he will be turning about 1500 rpm in drive at 45 actually 1700 - but lets not nitpick. and a little over 1000 rpm in od which od theres two of em yknow... so - if youre correct and its vacuum-related he should be able to select manual 2 engage cc at 40mph and accelerate via the cc controls up to 50mph no problem thatll start him out at about 2500rpm and finish up about 3100rpm. if it still cuts out at 45mph then what will your answer be .
From : homebrewer
actually i never tried the cruise before the reprogram...i really wish i had now though! i didnt explain fully - i took the truck on a 1000 mile road trip for the 4th of july the cruise worked fine as it always has....on the 15th i installed the lift / tires. i had the computer recalibrated after that and the very next day i noticed the cruise didnt work properly. i know and already planned on re-gearing the axles after the lift but not until i can afford it 2-3 months. i assumed the speedo recal would fix the computer with -or- without the gears. i assume now that i will have to get the computer recalibrated again after the re-gear .
From : homebrewer
ive lurked here for a while ive owned dodge trucks for the past 4-5 years but i dont read posts unless i need info and i dont feel i know enough to pass info to others. i get the feeling that not many people like the sonman. should i be taking his advice - or he seems to be very knowledgable on the subject more so that the service techs at the dealer that i have dealt with. .
From : tom lawrence
i assume now that i will have to get the computer recalibrated again after the re-gear actually no - you wont. speed is determined by rear axle rotation speed which is directly related to the diameter of the tires. changing the gear ratio wont change the number of revs per mile for your tire probably around 601 or so so the speedometer will remain correct no matter what gear ratio you put in. .
From : Annonymous
on mon 24 jul 2006 204156 gmt snoman admin@snoman.com wrote on mon 24 jul 2006 190227 gmt tom lawrence tnloaswpraemnmcien5g@earthlink.net wrote certain level when you select it. what this means is vacum is too low and cruise is vacum controlled too did you get that part and another thing... why are you blabbing on and on about engine vacuum let me quote you something from the 04 service manual 5.7l gas the speed control system is fully electronically controlled by the powertrain control module pcm. a cable and a vacuum controlled servo are not used. this is a servo-less system. the controls consist of two steering wheel mounted switches. the switches are labeled on/off res/accel set coast and cancel. the system is designed to operate at speeds above 30 mph 50 km/h. tom you are the one blabing here and you think that engien vacum has not effect on been able to use cruise control. if the ecm thinks the engine is laboring too much map and rpm it will not let cruise engaged but you are likely one of those that want to beleive that truck systems are immune to this stuff. btw with his current setup he will be turning about 1500 rpm in drive at 45 and a little over 1000 rpm in od and no hemi is going to what to pull that and the drag with it in cruise control. i cou
From : azwiley1
snoman i am a professional installer of 12 volt aftermarket electronics and i am here to tell you that engine vacuum has nothing to do with nor does it effect as you say a completely electronic cruise control factory or aftermarket. an electric cruise will and does in most cases get its signal for vehicle speed from the vss. there are no vaccum lines hooked up anywhere on the units so explain to me how vaccum effects them on mon 24 jul 2006 190227 gmt tom lawrence tnloaswpraemnmcien5g@earthlink.net wrote certain level when you select it. what this means is vacum is too low and cruise is vacum controlled too did you get that part and another thing... why are you blabbing on and on about engine vacuum let me quote you something from the 04 service manual 5.7l gas the speed control system is fully electronically controlled by the powertrain control module pcm. a cable and a vacuum controlled servo are not used. this is a servo-less system. the controls consist of two steering wheel mounted switches. the switches are labeled on/off res/accel set coast and cancel. the system is designed to operate at speeds above 30 mph 50 km/h. tom you are the one blabing here and you think that engien vacum has not effect on been able to use cruise control. if the ecm thinks the engine is laboring too much map and rpm it will not let cruise engaged but you are likely one of those that want to beleive that truck systems are immune to this stuff. btw with his current setup he will be turning about 1500 rpm in drive at 45 and a little over 1000 rpm in od and no hemi is going to what to pull that and the drag with it in cruise control. i could even calculate how much power is required and what is availble but you would think that is bs too because you do not understand any of the physics here only your ego. ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .
From : homebrewer
close my tires do598 rotation per mile....and thats good to know. thanks for the info now i am positive that the dealer screwed something up with the computer. i assume now that i will have to get the computer recalibrated again after the re-gear actually no - you wont. speed is determined by rear axle rotation speed which is directly related to the diameter of the tires. changing the gear ratio wont change the number of revs per mile for your tire probably around 601 or so so the speedometer will remain correct no matter what gear ratio you put in. .
From : chris thompson
.. snoman i am a professional installer of 12 volt aftermarket electronics and i am here to tell you that engine vacuum has nothing to do with nor does it effect as you say a completely electronic cruise control factory or aftermarket. an electric cruise will and does in most cases get its signal for vehicle speed from the vss. there are no vaccum lines hooked up anywhere on the units so explain to me how vaccum effects them he cant and im still waiting on my question to be answered. -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs .
From : homebrewer
according to my calculations - and a lot of online calculators - id say the truck would be better off with 4.11 gears.... to fix this and make truck run a lot better you need at least 4.56s and 4.88 would be better still them recal speedo and such and you will get what you are looking for and longer driveline life with much better performance too. ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .
From : tbone
my mistake i thought that i read that you did. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving well snowman here is the point that you seem to be missing. it did work prior to the reprogramming according to the op and unless a speedo reprogramming somehow changed the load on the engine or the vacuum.... actually i never tried the cruise before the reprogram...i really wish i had now though! .
From : azwiley1
chris how is the wife liking the liberty my wife and i are thinking about getting one for her with the crd. . snoman i am a professional installer of 12 volt aftermarket electronics and i am here to tell you that engine vacuum has nothing to do with nor does it effect as you say a completely electronic cruise control factory or aftermarket. an electric cruise will and does in most cases get its signal for vehicle speed from the vss. there are no vaccum lines hooked up anywhere on the units so explain to me how vaccum effects them he cant and im still waiting on my question to be answered. -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs .
From : js
chris thompson wrote . snoman i am a professional installer of 12 volt aftermarket electronics and i am here to tell you that engine vacuum has nothing to do with nor does it effect as you say a completely electronic cruise control factory or aftermarket. an electric cruise will and does in most cases get its signal for vehicle speed from the vss. there are no vaccum lines hooked up anywhere on the units so explain to me how vaccum effects them he cant and im still waiting on my question to be answered. he did. his explanation made sense since ive seen the same thing on my hyundai. left the auto-stick in 4th od and climbed a very steep hill at 55 1800 rpm or so on a 2.7l v6 rolling weight about 4300#... it pulled the accelerator to the floor dropped out of lockup kept losing speed and after a second or two the cruise let go. luckily nobody was behind me else it might have been an embarrassing situation its embarrassing enough already i drive a hyundai suv it has a mitsubishi electronic cruise module controlled by the ecm - its got a regular ol throttle cable for the human interface. hmm arent the hemis throttle-by-wire i know the 4.7s are this would mean the cruise and your foot actually run the same servo on the side of the throttle body so therefore the problem wouldnt be the servo unless the accelerator pedal didnt work either. js .
From : chris thompson
she loves it. shes getting 22 - 25 mpg out of it driving to and from work. she works about 30 miles away and drives interstate at 75 - 80 mph. if she slows it down to 65 - 70 she gets better closer to 30. ive read that the liberty crd will not see production for the 07 model year something about emissions. but they are going to introduce a diesel powered grand that will see mpg numbers closer to what the cummins powered trucks are seeing. -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs. chris how is the wife liking the liberty my wife and i are thinking about getting one for her with the crd. . snoman i am a professional installer of 12 volt aftermarket electronics and i am here to tell you that engine vacuum has nothing to do with nor does it effect as you say a completely electronic cruise control factory or aftermarket. an electric cruise will and does in most cases get its signal for vehicle speed from the vss. there are no vaccum lines hooked up anywhere on the units so explain to me how vaccum effects them he cant and im still waiting on my question to be answered. -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs .
From : chris thompson
.. chris thompson wrote . snoman i am a professional installer of 12 volt aftermarket electronics and i am here to tell you that engine vacuum has nothing to do with nor does it effect as you say a completely electronic cruise control factory or aftermarket. an electric cruise will and does in most cases get its signal for vehicle speed from the vss. there are no vaccum lines hooked up anywhere on the units so explain to me how vaccum effects them he cant and im still waiting on my question to be answered. he did. his explanation made sense since ive seen the same thing on my hyundai. left the auto-stick in 4th od and climbed a very steep hill at 55 1800 rpm or so on a 2.7l v6 rolling weight about 4300#... it pulled the accelerator to the floor dropped out of lockup kept losing speed and after a second or two the cruise let go. luckily nobody was behind me else it might have been an embarrassing situation its embarrassing enough already i drive a hyundai suv it has a mitsubishi electronic cruise module controlled by the ecm - its got a regular ol throttle cable for the human interface. hmm arent the hemis throttle-by-wire i know the 4.7s are this would mean the cruise and your foot actually run the same servo on the side of the throttle body so therefore the problem wouldnt be the servo unless the accelerator pedal didnt work either. js theres zero mention of engine vacuum as a cause of cc disengagement anywhere in the fsm. none. zip. nada. as posted by tom l. further in an auto trans setup it should downshift to a lower gear to achive the torque multiplication needed to maintain the speed an autostick doesnt do this as you select the gears like in a standard shift -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs .
From : homebrewer
so - if youre correct and its vacuum-related he should be able to select manual 2 engage cc at 40mph and accelerate via the cc controls up to 50mph no problem thatll start him out at about 2500rpm and finish up about 3100rpm. if it still cuts out at 45mph then what will your answer be i tried it . even in 2 with 3200 rpms the cruise still shuts off at 40 mph. in the service manual it says it is designed to work above 30 mph but i was testing it this morning and had it set at 25mph and it worked. im baffled but the dealer is supposed to fix it on thursday. .
From : tom lawrence
is the difference between swapping gears and a rebuild. ill give you a hint the carrier bearings and if you are working on the dc 9 1/4 rear you would be an idiot not to replace both the carrier and the pinion bearings anyway and save yourself the grief of having to replace them at around 60000 when they tend to fail. otherwise the labor and steps required are exactly the same and when you replace the pinion just like in a rebuild the time required jumps up because now you have to set the pinion depth all over again which can be time consuming when done correctly. if you know someone willing to do it for $300 and who actually knows what they are doing post the number and address as that really is a bargain. -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving tom i know this means nothing coming from me but congratulations on your promotion. your spot in the group has been taken by the snoidiot. vbg i dont know why you would think that as i have nothing against you. my only fear is what exactly i have been promoted to - -- if at first you dont succeed youre not cut out for skydiving . 222 320164 dxxg.3141$gf6.383@read2..pas.earthlink.net i tried it . even in 2 with 3200 rpms the cruise still shuts off at 40 mph. yeah... definately a vacuum problem. def-def-definately. uh-oh... three minutes to wapner... hey snoman... any other bright ideas .
From : azwiley1
that figures. come out with something that works and works well and when we have a problem lets drop it instead of fixing it. i guess my wife would be happy though as she has always loved the grands. she loves it. shes getting 22 - 25 mpg out of it driving to and from work. she works about 30 miles away and drives interstate at 75 - 80 mph. if she slows it down to 65 - 70 she gets better closer to 30. ive read that the liberty crd will not see production for the 07 model year something about emissions. but they are going to introduce a diesel powered grand that will see mpg numbers closer to what the cummins powered trucks are seeing. -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs. chris how is the wife liking the liberty my wife and i are thinking about getting one for her with the crd. . snoman i am a professional installer of 12 volt aftermarket electronics and i am here to tell you that engine vacuum has nothing to do with nor does it effect as you say a completely electronic cruise control factory or aftermarket. an electric cruise will and does in most cases get its signal for vehicle speed from the vss. there are no vaccum lines hooked up anywhere on the units so explain to me how vaccum effects them he cant and im still waiting on my question to be answered. -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs .
From : snoman
on mon 24 jul 2006 214156 -0400 chris thompson he cant and im still waiting on my question to be answered. and what question is that you guys turned this into a circus. ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .
From : chris thompson
real trucks dont need spark plugs. she loves it. shes getting 22 - 25 mpg out of it driving to and from work. she works about 30 miles away and drives interstate at 75 - 80 mph. if she slows it down to 65 - 70 she gets better closer to 30. ive read that the liberty crd will not see production for the 07 model year something about emissions. but they are going to introduce a diesel powered grand that will see mpg numbers closer to what the cummins powered trucks are seeing. -- in addition when i told her about your question she said hurry!!! she highly recomends the crd over the gas versions of the liberty. heres the link to the article in usa today. http//www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2006-06-05-dieselx.htm -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs. chris how is the wife liking the liberty my wife and i are thinking about getting one for her with the crd. .
From : chris thompson
tara would rather have the liberty than the grand. easier to park. the grand is close the size of the old durango and she says the liberty is much better suited to running around in town than the durango was. food for thought. but yes i agree its a shame that the crd is seeing its end this year and ive already sent my email to that affect of course my little spill did nothing to change minds but it made me feel better to have voiced my opinion on them dropping it. -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs. that figures. come out with something that works and works well and when we have a problem lets drop it instead of fixing it. i guess my wife would be happy though as she has always loved the grands. she loves it. shes getting 22 - 25 mpg out of it driving to and from work. she works about 30 miles away and drives interstate at 75 - 80 mph. if she slows it down to 65 - 70 she gets better closer to 30. ive read that the liberty crd will not see production for the 07 model year something about emissions. but they are going to introduce a diesel powered grand that will see mpg numbers closer to what the cummins powered trucks are seeing. -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs. chris how is the wife liking the liberty my wife and i are thinking about getting one for her with the crd. . snoman i am a professional installer of 12 volt aftermarket electronics and i am here to tell you that engine vacuum has nothing to do with nor does it effect as you say a completely electronic cruise control factory or aftermarket. an electric cruise will and does in most cases get its signal for vehicle speed from the vss. there are no vaccum lines hooked up anywhere on the units so explain to me how vaccum effects them he cant and im still waiting on my question to be answered. -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs .
From : azwiley1
thanks for the link. maybe we will be able to find a real good used one if it comes down to that when we do this. she also likes the toyota highlander and since it will be her vehicle not mine what ever she wants is what she will get. real trucks dont need spark plugs. she loves it. shes getting 22 - 25 mpg out of it driving to and from work. she works about 30 miles away and drives interstate at 75 - 80 mph. if she slows it down to 65 - 70 she gets better closer to 30. ive read that the liberty crd will not see production for the 07 model year something about emissions. but they are going to introduce a diesel powered grand that will see mpg numbers closer to what the cummins powered trucks are seeing. -- in addition when i told her about your question she said hurry!!! she highly recomends the crd over the gas versions of the liberty. heres the link to the article in usa today. http//www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2006-06-05-dieselx.htm -- ---------------------------- -chris 05 ctd 06 liberty crd real trucks dont need spark plugs. chris how is the wife liking the liberty my wife and i are thinking about getting one for her with the crd. .
From : roy
ive lurked here for a while ive owned dodge trucks for the past 4-5 years but i dont read posts unless i need info and i dont feel i know enough to pass info to others. i get the feeling that not many people like the sonman. should i be taking his advice - or he seems to be very knowledgable on the subject more so that the service techs at the dealer that i have dealt with. this is a unmoderated group. anybody can give any advice they feel like. you have to decide whos advice is good and whos is not. myself im comfortable with advice and info ive received from tom lawrence denny wiley mac tbone theguy beekeep js mac chris and a couple of others. im sure that if you read back over your thread you will figure out who to listen to. roy .
From : snoman
on mon 24 jul 2006 180523 -0700 azwiley1 azwiley1@cox.net wrote snoman i am a professional installer of 12 volt aftermarket electronics and i am here to tell you that engine vacuum has nothing to do with nor does it effect as you say a completely electronic cruise control factory or aftermarket. an electric cruise will and does in most cases get its signal for vehicle speed from the vss. there are no vaccum lines hooked up anywhere on the units so explain to me how vaccum effects them the electronic cruise is monitored by ecm and if the engine does npt have the needed power reserve to power it it will not let it engage. it is not transparent as you assume. it determines this by map or vacum which ever term you want to use ----------------- the snoman www.thesnoman.com .